Good Program. Justice has tears in his eyes.
I agree with him, the SC must once and for all give a judgement which will not allow any
military dictator to come to power.

If the judgement is give against the constitution , we might as well throw the constitution in the garbage bin.

Musharraf and his LOTAS must be stopped.

its not about supreme court any more…….They have succumbed to the pressure of america,,,,,american want mush as ruler and the rest of set up shld be secular as well…….

the only reaction expected is from the so called extremists and if they show some immense reaction against mush ….they will pave way for martial law…….

listen guies mush is not leaving …..until alive…..and after him america will find some other secular beeghariet……

only ultimate soln is the reaction from awam if they turn the deaf ear to al this then its over for atleast few years…..

totally agree with imran malik!
pakistan ki awam mari hui parri hay…its not just the responsibility of the awam but the army generals, the policemen, the engineers, doctors, lawyers, judges, public servants and beuracrats to come up and once and for all put an end to the rule of army in pakistan…for godsake have some sense, learn from india….and as far as the threat of extremists is concerned i have seen that the trend from history is that these people become strong only when military is ruling in pakistan and when the democratic forces are crushed.
this is the third time an army man has come to power, it shouldnt happen the fourth time, we are not like pathetic egyptians or any other pathetic arab state that accept dictators and kings over them, those people cant even think for themselves and make their own decisions, if we let such thing happen a fourth time then we will be doomed, it will be our end permanently, the pakistan of our founding father will be dead forever!

PS: sorry for getting carried away…i have no particular hatred against the brotherly arab nations….

So now that we know that Mush isn’t leaving easily, and plans on our army ruling over us till he dies, I wonder when that mubarak day will come. Maybe he’ll go the way his predecessor Zia went.. in a plane.. along with his general friends, and ideally, that plane will crash on a madrassah full of our extemist mullahs. That will be the ultimate solution to our prblems, the end of the two extremes.

I agree with both of you guys. Well said. I was being just an optimist.

The awan should come out on street. But some one has to take the pressure and take the first step.

Good, Bad, or ugly. We must have finish line for every political move. People can not and must not be put into constant campaign. Any political leader or observer worth his opinion will say that people fatigue can be dangerous for political workers, parties, and middle tier leadership. Finish line in this case be to accept court verdict. Once that has been done then resignations and or other form of political route should be considered. The finish line must be the courts decision. Once that decision has been announced, every one should respect that and move on with their political strategies. Al Gore despite his reservations and disgust with the conservative judges, accepted the decision of supreme court. He never agreed with the decision and democratic leadership still quotes the election and decision rigged but they do so by strengthening the supreme court. Courts verdict has to be final word irrespective of our liking.

@admin

Will you be uploading Kashif Abbasi’s Off the Record show and Hum Sub Umeed Se Hain?

This is so tiring. It’s like an endless cycle. I am not a superstitious person, but I am forced to consider that old superstition about two sisters getting married the same day as being a bad sign, since one of the sisters is deemed to be unlucky. Pakistan and India got independence together. Pakistan seems to me to be the unlucky sister.
I think our main problem is this middle road we are on since Pakistan took it’s first breath. We can neither be called a proper democracy nor a proper dictatorship. If we are a democracy, why dont our people have a voice, which is the essence of democracy?
And if we are destined to be a dictatorship, why can’t we be one like Malaysia or even Saudia or Oman where atleast they are economically strong? By taking the middle road, we are neither a free people nor an economic power. We are the residents of a remote village controlled by a tola of jageerdars, some in uniform while others in civilian clothes, taking turns to rule over us.

Guys,

I’m living abroad but I’m totally aware of the political situation of Pakistan thru brilliant tele media, please guide me according to public sentiments in the country…

The feeling I’ve developed is that Pakistan is on verge of getting rid of military interventions in political arena, do you think that temperature has crossed the threshold for public in Pakistan or not? …Atleast in urban areas where people have more political awareness for various reasons…

If not, what are the reasons of the indifference?

//If not, what are the reasons of the indifference?//

The reason for the indifference is that there is no one to look upto.. there is no leadership. Everyone is a crook. No one has done anything to gain trust of people. Extreme disappointment with our leadership, both civilian and military, as well as extremely disheartening history of the country is the reason for the indifference.

@ Akhter

People want agendas and compromises on agendas. Our political elite and its key workers are stuck on personalities and compromises for personalities. It is obvious military intelligence knows that. Basic premise of the political leaders and their devotees is not the issues but the personality. Average person does not see anyone offering any concrete agenda to address issues. NS devotees see revolution like Khomeani’s return without even have the courtesy to ask for what is the agenda? BB devotees are too intimidated by her personality to question whether she has the liberal capitalist or moderate socialist agenda? JI never had agenda except for brain washing fresh minds like communist party of Russia. They have no program other than using Islam to defend everything. IK is confused politician trying to figure out where does he stand on issues. Everything about them is about the individuals. Political workers are not properly educated or financially stable to guide the citizens to demand the agendas. In this situation, it really does not matter for common citizens whether military is running the affairs or civilians are at the helm of the affairs. Many disgruntled people in this forum live in their ideological untrue world worshiping their beloved personalities. There is big disconnect. Masses are very smart and have accepted that in this situation accept the incremental-ism as the appropriate way to move forward. Any single step forward is better than the revolutionary hopes.

pakistani media zinda bad.

Yes, our political leaders need to have an agenda, and one of the top steps on the agenda should be to get rid of our nukes. Wabaal-e-jaan. The reason why America wants its pets to rule over Pakistan and the reason the Army gives to justify its presence in our politics. By getting rid of our nukes, we would finally get rid of this unwanted interest of the west in our country and have enough resources to feed and educate our people. Maintaining nuclear facilities is expensive, which is the reason our crook leaders give for usurping all the funds. It is also the reason for being so dependent on foreign aid. We should get rid of them.
And no I dont believe that if we get rid of our bombs, India is going to bomb us.
Plus, bombs work when they are used to counter threats by others. But when America threatened to bomb us, we gave in. We completely forgot we have our own bombs to counter that threat. So what’s the use of having useless bombs when they are eating up all our resources and is giving the army excuses to rule over us?

Sinner,

You need to do some research. N-Bomb is the cheapest method of defense (not offense) anywhere in the world.
Equivalent power TNT based explosive and bombs would cost thousand times more.

Once we have bomb, no one can dare to attack us and we don’t need to feed the 5th largest Paki Army in the world and we can use that money in public infrastructure.

We have been giving Army 60% of the budget till 70s when there was no N-Bomb and it still continues to be +30%.

Khalid

I will just submit that agenda must be along following lines:

1- We should focus our energies in empowering our citizens through education, self respect, dignity, and economic opportunity. We can differ on how to achieve these goals but objective should be the same.

2- We should aggressively pursue trade with the paying countries particularly west. We can export perhaps commodities at this point and import capital equipment for agriculture sector modernization and building manufacturing base. Again we should discuss what route different leaders have presented but this objective should be above controversy.

3- Government should only facilitate individual transactions through legal protection. In other words rule of law should be such that contract whether employment, business, or any other transaction among private citizens and groups. Rule of law will be the by product when every one in contracts whether weak or strong gets an equal opportunity before law. Contract does not mean just a business transaction. My acceptance of your and mine human and citizen rights is a contract. Government should facilitate through laws the individual reverence to this collective binding. Again we should discuss that leader A & B have suggested different means but the end is same.

These are some of the basic concerns. We should forget about all international politics or conspiracy theories until majority of our individuals have reached the level of sustaining themselves. This in my opinion will require 25-30 years. No central planing by the government but through laws provide people the equal opportunity ( not suggesting social equality)protected by facilitative neutral enforcement.

Khalid,
Here’s where my concern lies.. Pakistan having nukes puts it sharply under the eyes of the west, especially America. And since our Army has always had a soft spot for USA and their funding, USA knows the army would do anything to stay in that place. So until Army is in power, America can use it for its own benefit. And this is not okay with the people of Pakistan, and so it divides them.

Pakistan is disintegrating more and more everyday because the people dont have a voice. And since they feel that the government isnt listening to them, they want their own separate states and countries. This feeling comes from disappointment with the leadership, especially when it is an institute like the army who has a duty to protect them. Instead, it is fighting against them. Of all the things, unity is the last thing Pakistan can boast about right now, you’ll have to agree. And when there is no untiy among the people, and they dont want to be a part of the country anymore, that’s the end of the country itself.

All this is happening, because the leadership of the country is not what the people wanted or elected. But that leadership is still there today, and may very well be there in the next 5 years or even more. And why? Because it is suported by America. USA is not the super power of the world for no reason. It has immense influence over other countries, especially a country like Pakistan who takes huge amounts of aid from it. Now why does America give aid to Pakistan and why is Pakistan and its leadership of so much importance for USA? Simple. Because it is an Islamic country with nukes. America doesnt want the nukes to fall in the hands of Islamic extremists. It believes that until there is leadership in Pakistan according to USA’s wishes, the threat for that is nil. So it keeps supporting army rule and the army keeps exploiting the people of Pakistan.
Also, the reason civilain political parties are not given a chance to govern Pakistan is because the Army gives the argument of them not being able to guard the nukes. America believes it, so does most of the powerful nations around the world. And that’s why they support army rule in our country, or a civilian ruler who is willing to work under the army. BB is a good example of this.

And dont say that what foreigners say or believe has no effect on our country. The past few days involving Saudia and even Lebanon has proved that. And whose language were they speaking? America’s, of course. They didnt come to Pakistan for their own interest. They came because USA wanted them to.

If we dont have nukes, we dont need the army so bad to “protect” them.

Plus, my personal belief is, developing nations should not have nukes to begin with. A country with 40% population living under poverty line shouldn’t have nukes. It’s not just the maintenance and advancement. It’s the unwanted attention and negative interest of the rest of the world that Pakistan can ill afford right now. Becuase of the foreign interest in our coutnry, we have political turmoil. And all the attention and focus is watsed on that turmoil when it should be focused on what’s much more important, the welfare of the people of Pakistan, inflation, education, economic advancement, social reforms, etc. Ignoring all these seem to me to be a very hefty price to pay for our nuclear capabilities.

Army should only be paid from the Zakat money, Rest should be diverted to education and skill development. But my fear is who is going to come next? BB -:(, Mulana -:((, Mr X -:(((.

@sinner,
Have you ever think about the definition extremist,fundamentalist?? I think we are using this word mistakenly or not knowing the meaning of it.The person who is devotedly or strictly following and implimenting the rules of Islam,non muslims naming them Islamists,Fundamentalist and extremists.Your wish to crash Mush plane on Madrissa is really the wish of the non muslims who are scaring of Islam’s thoughts.By the way without these Maulana’s even you r not able to give Azan to your new born baby’s,not able to proceed Nikkah and funerals also ,then think ,,,without them will be a muslim,??without nikkah,without Azan, and so and so on…Shame on the thinking against the Madrissas and Maulana’s.
And what about the bush war against Muslims all over the world???He announced it in begining Crusade.
The Col. who died in Lal masjid encounter,,,He died as a Muslim???look his face ,looks like sikh.And see the face of Rasheed Ghazi.You will understand.
The army attacking on Masjid is a Muslim army??

@Admin

Please consider putting the latest comments on top instead at bottom, so every time do not have to scroll down for new comments. TQ

@Admin

One more suggestion is plz introduce some voting system with each comments, like the one we can see at http://www.bbcurdu.com. I think the other should also give suggestions to make this place more attractive and meaningful.

@ Qasim

“The army attacking on Masjid is a Muslim army??”

1- Masjid was built on illegal encraochment.
2- They were defying the revernce to thw law.
3- They were using force against other citizens.
4- They were using Masjid as cover to their illegal activities.

Rule of law is not just about Supreme court deciding political issues. Rule of law is each individual, group, and institution respecting and upholding the law. And Mush not following the law does not justify the criminal acts of these Mullah bros. Col. was defending the law of the land and died for the nation. Ghazi was a criminal. The bloodshed should have been avoided at all costs but do not try to present criminals like Ghazi as hero.

@ Qasim

Although I agree with the notion of the abuse of the word extremist. If you justify the role of Maulvi for the purposes of Addan, Nikah, and funerals only then I guess you should learn the basics of Islam. May God give us all the wisdom to understand the message of Quran.

@ Siasati

Sir with due respect.

1. Mosque was/is not built on illegal land (Instead Govt. demolished several mosques on legal land)

2. Yes they did but also to stop the unlawful activities happening ( You think them killer or the persons involved in recent case, 45 people died in karachi drinking poisonous wine) i can give u countless examples where their own ministers are running these things. Any action required ?

3. No one even injured with their actions (what happened on 12th May in karachi ? )

4.Govt badly failed to uncover any big junk of weapons (Only dozen of guns) or any foreigners inspite all the force and propoganda.

Allah knows better who was shaheed or died!!!

@ shaz

1- Yes it was illegal encroachment

2- No individual has the right to take law into his/ her hand.

3- People were injured and the very repute of the country among friendly nations was tarnished.

4- Illegal weapons were recovered as you said just few dozen guns.

and yes Allah almighty knows everything.

@ Siasati

1. It was not mosque but a part of madrassa hafsa, built on illegal land.

2.Yes i agree no individul should do this, but was this the punishment they deserve and no double standard please.

3. Sorry i do not agree to the logic, that if someone from the friendly country, so he/she can do anything (kidnapping ex.prime minister, running brothel houses, exporting a murder trailed person to UK…etc).Tell me if you are a foreigner and doing unlawful activity there, would they spare you in the name of friendship? This is bogus argument to me.

4. Yes weapons were discovered but sadly we have seen more advanced weapons from the videos of 12 May in Karachi.

(Mush is only selective to certain faction of people, Disgrace for a General to call and beg to the (himself called) biggest terrorist of Pakistan, just to vote him in for next term

@ Shaz

1- Yes it was illegal encroachment

2- Someone else is breaking law does not justify my unlawful behavior

3- Someone else is breaking law does not justify my unlawful behavior

4- Someone else is breaking law does not justify my unlawful behavior

Read my posts again. Force and in particular brutal force should be the last resort. We can debate whether government took all possible measure to avoid the loss of precious life. This discussion in no way justifies the behavior of criminals though.

@ Siasati

Can we support a mother killing her child in response to his considered un-rightful demands?

Parliament which is completing its tenure cannot elect president for next five years. Had been so, the parliament could have extended their tenure for rest of life…no more elections. if a parliament wants to increase their tenure, they should pass the amendment and than hold fair and free election and new parliament can think on the issue. Even than Supreme Court can intervene and declare this action of parliament as disenfranchising the people and in contravention of fundamentals right of people to elect their leaders and Supreme Court should declare such ultra vires actions.. So the presidential election from present assemblies is denial of fundamental rights of 16 crore awam of Pakistan as through this act people through their wold be elected representative are being denied to right to excercise their right to elect president.

@ Shaz

“Can we support a mother killing her child in response to his considered un-rightful demands?”

Can you re-phrase your question. I could not understand it.

No one can kill other for any reason. No one should take law into his/her hands. The state has the right to enforce law which she should do it with utmost human consideration. The criminals must be held accountable.

Kaash koi Dr. Shahid ko yeh bata day keh itnay lengthy introductory fiqray bolna kia zaroori hay! Try to write his sentences and read them
Short and Simple sentences guftagoo ka husn hotay hain. May be he does not know the KISS (Keep It Short & Simple) principle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle

thanks admin my fav program

@admin wat happen to Off the Record long time no update

Listening to the comments from the CJs last week it was evident that the judges are feeling the pressure too but whats surprising is the fact that they are blaming politicians for all the mess created in our 60 years history. How ironical that our so called free judiciary has forgotten that strength of army is the manipulation of judicial system and that it wouldnt have been the same had they acted with strength and conviction in the past.

Anyways its the voice of an ordinary desperate pakistani. Its the month of ramadhan. Lets all prays together that May Allah give strength and direction to our judges so that they could change the fortunes of this most unforunate nation once and for all.

Never let your hopes die.

@shaz
Sorry for putting late comments
I agree with siasti.

The masjid ( even build on Illegal Land) can never be destroyed.Even if non muslim worship place also can not be dstroyed.This argument is not supporting the Mush act on Lal masjid.Yes, lal masjid ulema kidnapped, But what they did with them?given three days course ,and telling them right way.Any of them gone to court to put case against them?No…because they have not kidnapped them for money or for political purpose,but for some other things.

Tell ,whether Govt. going to take the same action against all the poeple holding illegal land( Including Genrals and Political leaders)?will they take the same action against them?

Then mind it,Mush working on the other plan,Targets by Weasteren and Us .

These guys are Munafiq (in the Quranic sence) They drop the houses of Allah to build houses of where satan is worshiped. The latest one by pervez Elahi costing RS330 mil, paid for by the poor muslims of Pakistan(link to story below).

http://www.whereincity.com/news/5/6188

@Siasati

I agree to what you have said that political parties are too much sticking to Personalities. Personalities should not matter but the agendas and sincerity to agendas should. Agendas itself is not rocket science.

PML(N) has good leadership in form of Ch. Nisar, Ahsan Iqbal and PPP in form of Aitzaz. These parties should select new leaderships….

[...] Original post by admin [...]

We have land and yet do not provide enough food for the nation. The people of this luxury loving nation have not learnt to live within their means. I think if our Govt had tried they could have had agro reasearch centers and tried through R & D develop self sufficiency, Ship building and deep sea fishing could have been developed. In short Self sufficiency in food supply could have been promoted. In past 60 years nothing was done.

We want to eat and live well so we have a minister for food in the Govt. who does not develop food resources in the country but rns up to US for wheat, edible oil and other forms of food and US sell their surpluses with certain conditions against certain concessions. As Such as said by Sajjad Hussain CJ, this has become an American Colony and they will want our leaders in our Govt to play their tune.

One must understand that in the past the Supreme court Dramas were good for consumption in the drawing room but now there is realization as to what will be the setup wanted by our Maibap so that we can exist. You can only have self respect if you are strong economically and militarily that that needs a long perod education, industrial developmet employment and self sufficient food production. We cannot have self respect when we feed on their crumbs. I think that the events to happen are scheduled and will get implented anyway.

Saeedullan