in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.

Dear Admin,
I am truly grateful for all the effort exerted on your part, to keep us informed and involved in the political process in Pakistan. A request…if you need any help at any point in time please do reach out to us on this website and let us know (from interviews with politicians, financially, to any other request) I am sure all of us would be happy to help!!! You are doing all of us expats a great service.

Ant-Shamim has no place in Pakistan.
Even after hundreds of Maulanas are dead.

saqibtahir
what the hell r u talking about?u know about whom u r talking about?he is a hafiz quran and used to be the imam of mosque.are you muslim?do u have any evidence against him?just because of whatever media told,u believed.what they were doing wrong?it means whatever prostitution,alcohol business and massage center can u justify that?Dear this is a islamic country.
govt. was planing to kill them and u think they hadnt any right to protect them.i am not favouring them but please try to understand sensibly if u have that.

dear becareful to talk because everybody has to die one day and on the day of judgement u can be caught just because of ur words.in islam to save ur life u can do anything and u r talking about his burqa.
I know how brave are muslims like u.

@ Admin,

Shouldn’t ’saqibthair’s’ extremist comments be removed? Where is the fairness? I don’t mind him addressing his daddy that way, but his comment should be removed to maintain decency of this website.

Once healed, Maulana Aziz Sahib should be extradited to Tora Bora. There is no place here for brainwashing muslims to kill muslims. Wishing him speedy recovery!

This mulla is neo-Nazi. He a the worst coward who is responsable for Fitna that is considered worst than murder in Islam. All Islamic scholars have a consensus that his actions were evil. He is coward because he and his wife and daughters who are mainly responsible for the event ran away in disguise and left many brain washed children there to die. He deserve capital punishment for his crimes and I am sure he will get that.

It seems that so called “DEMOCRAT” OR ENLIGHTEND, can’t tolerate differences in openion, and rule of law. No one is guilty unless proven in court of law. These ENLIGHTENED Jahils should be shifted to TORA BORA………..

Those who express their differences with bullets and violance deserve to treated with bullets. No state can allow anarchists to terrorise its citizen. Who appointed this jungli a moral policeman? Who allowed him to collect arms in a mosques and kill people?

These faciasts deserved to be eliminated. Well done Mush.

Great Shahid
I think we should leave these jahils like so called democrat and saqib.We should pray for Abdul Aziz Ghazi

This Lal Masjid was built on illegal land. The Supreme Court will order that all such encroachments (be it religious, social, or educational) be confiscated and demolished. As for Maulana Sahib, the Court will try him and his refugees as terrorists! According to Liaqat Baloch: “every action has a reaction”. The army action was a reaction to GANGSTERISM.

@Vicky

I think so called Democrat and Saqib are cousins of Salman Rushdi. They didn’t answer of questions about the role of women in Islam. They just like to argue then switch to other topic.

@ Syed Khan @ Vicky

Question for both of you: “Is it not true that Maulana Maudoodi nominated Mohtarama Fatima Jinnah as the presidential canndidate in the 1964 elections against Ayub Khan?” Yes or No?

@Democrat

Please ask any Islamic scholar of your choice who would say it is allowed for women to mix with men? Even, without asking anyone would you allow your sister, mother, wife or daughter to mix with other men.
I think your question is not relevant.

DEMOCRAT, question for you, did Mushi kill innocent women and children in NWFP and Balchostan? Who is worst AZIZ or MUSHI? Who killed more people? Something for you to think about !!!

@ Shahid

Answer: both are condemnable and should be held accountable for the death of innocents.[Indeed, some of my colleagues returned their tamghas on the tragic killing (without due process of law) of Akbar Bugti.]

BUT, the original question was to Syed Khan and Vicky, and now you, on the status of women in Islam {see my posting above}. I am still waiting for the answer!

@Democrat

I am also waiting for my answer…Would you allow your sister, mother, wife or daughter to mix with other men?

Dr. Shahid Masood is a great man.

One thing is not clear, do people against Mulana Aziz preaching the lawful, moral and Islamic activities of Aunty Shamaim and co. Due they want that Aunty shamim should continue her supply of women to Wazirs,MNAs and many more. For those who think that Mulana and his family was safe, His only son is also in the list of LAL Masjid Martyers. This demands was absolutely right but one can debate the actions, but actions were not that fatel.

Brothels have long history in South Asia.
In Mughal Court the Humayoon brought prostitutes from Iran.
Shah Wali Allah
Aurangzeb Alamgir
and
Abdul Aziz are not alone in their fight against brothels.
The whole Pakistan is with them, leaving aside some Radical Secular Midgets.

Long Live Family
Long Live Marriage
End temporary nikah (Mutah) now.

@ Shaz

We are supposed to live in a lawful society, and the remedy for any grievance is to seek recourse in courts–not take the law in your hands. Otherwise, it would be a bigger jungle–than we already have. Destroying a shopkeeper’s store for selling music CDs is neither appropriate demand nor proper action!
This is no different from GANGSTERISM!

Saqib and Democrat belong to the category for whom religion is just limited to azan and iqamat at the time of birth, nikah and the funeral prayers… rest is all based on their wishes, not the wishes of islam. For us we accept onl that part of the religion which does not interfere in our personal wills to lead the life. for the rest we simply don’t need it and wish to lead it as a person of any other religion would do. We are ashamed of our identity even in a Muslim state like Pakistan.
For Maulana Aziz, his stand was not legitimized by a mahority of scholars, so I never supported that, but the irony is that why should we believe the reports of ejaz-ul-Haq or his supporters. Why shouldn’t I trust the other party who had a different statement.
Can one pray for himself, may he be with his leader on the Day of judgement. Fear Allah, if you belive on that DAY. At least find some proper leader. I think it never existed in Pakistan. BB’s recent statements had been really ironic. I see no difference between Musharraf (with or without the worthless queue leage ) and BB at the moment.
By the way who supported Maudoodi’s support for Fatima Jinnah… neither you nor me, because hardly any one of us existed at that moment… we have read the story books only. Every body knows about Pinky’s life before she arrived in 1986.
The problem is that we think that we know religion more than any one in this world. there had been no islamic government in Pakistan, so to blame the Maulvi’s, Imam’s and religious scholars is truly illegitimate.

@admin
Plz upload mp3z . I am still waiting for previous programs’ mp3 version. At least upload them for capitaltalk and meray mutabiq as I know it takes time to convert all of them to mp3 and upload. One more thing, if mp3 option is not good then plz use blip.tv instead of viddler as I can convert them myself. Right now I am just waiting for your response. Please reply.
Thanks

@ Tanweer Amjad

- On Maulana Maudoodi’s support for the 1964 presidential candidacy of Fatima Jinnah.

I was present on the occasion and seconded Maulana’s stance. It’s historical record!

@Democrat
Agreed that destroying the shop and raiding a massage centre or Aunty shamim was not the duty of a citizen. But do you think any one of this could be illegal and shouldn’t be done in a coutry with majority of Muslims, forget about the first two, just the last one. Did your leader show any intention to take action at a well known (after so much news about it) adultery centre. At least I never heard any from either Mush or BB. It is okay not to support such acts by religious parties, but how would you justify your act by following leaders who have the authority but still they don’t even intend to curb it. They had been more hiding it than anything.

@Tanweer

Very well said!

@Democrat

Before you write anything about Islam or Scholars, Please take some Islam 101 classes.

@ Tanweer Amjad

- Why didn’t you go to the court?
- And, according to your logic, if others don’t like your practices or consider these illegal they should come and beat you up!

@ Syed Khan

You didn’t answer my query on Maulana Maudoodi’s endorsement of Fatima Jinnah. Please enlighten.

@ Syed Khan

I missed your question on the mixing of women and men. Here is the answer for the all you taliban and Lal Masjid trainees.

YES, all the women of the land are noble mothers, sisters, and daughters. And they are entitled to become masters and rulers of men even those living in the Saudi Arabia! Hope it clarifies!

@ Syed Khan

I missed your question on the mixing of women and men. Here is the answer for the all you taliban and Lal Masjid trainees.

YES, all the women of the land are noble partners and equal partners and participants of the society. And they are entitled to become masters and rulers of men even those living in Saudi Arabia! Hope it clarifies!

Friends,

We are striving to live in a civilized society where people like the said Maulana do not have the right to take the law into their own hands.

We must learn from the Lal Masjid incident. By Maulana Ghazi’s own admission there were foreigners in the mosque. What were they doing there? And why was the maulana asking for safe passage for himself and them, while endangering the lives of the innocent students inside. Was his responsibility not first and foremost to his students whose parents had left their children under his charge? And why were some of the students who tried to come out, shot in their legs?

Plus, it is a matter of grave concern that we still do not consider ourselves stakeholders in this war. Zawahiri’s call for attacks on Pakistan Security forces following the Lal Masjid seige should be reason enough for us all to open our eyes that there was a direct link between the Lal Masjid clerics and Al-Qaeda/Taliban. Was Zawahiri, who has no trouble killing innocent women and children, in a bout of compassion for the innocent civilians, avenging their deaths?. No…his revenge was purely for Maulana Ghazi and his foreign comrades who were killed by the Pakistan Security forces. The grand plan of having a mosque in Pakistan’s capital from which to extend its idealogy was destroyed, and this was what prompted the response.

Also, we mourn the loss of every innocent civilian who lost his/her life in this tragic incident. But we must not forget that the security forces showed tremendous restraint and lost their own men in the process. Otherwise, the Lal Masjid could have been razed with a couple of rockets.

Finally, we must try to remain consistent. These conspiracy theories about Musharraf using Lal Masjid to divert attention off the CJ case are baseless. The Lal Masjid shot to fame in Jan when our sisters with sticks were flashed across all the channels. At that time, almost everyone was ridiculing the government about its inaction. Then after the March 9 incident with the CJ, the opposition started exploiting the incident to futher their own political goals and tried to paint the Lal Masjid as a conspiracy theory. And finally, the media who which I have tremendous respect for, decided to make a U-Turn on the entire incident.

Let us unite to fight the menace of extremism. Let us exhaust all means of peaceful dialog to reach a settlement avoiding the use of force until necessary.

This is not about moderates or extremists. This is about Pakistan.

We are striving to live in a civilized society where people like the said Maulana do not have the right to take the law into their own hands.

We must learn from the Lal Masjid incident. By Maulana Ghazi’s own admission there were foreigners in the mosque. What were they doing there? And why was the maulana asking for safe passage for himself and them, while endangering the lives of the innocent students inside. Was his responsibility not first and foremost to his students whose parents had left their children under his charge? And why were some of the students who tried to come out, shot in their legs?

Plus, it is a matter of grave concern that we still do not consider ourselves stakeholders in this war. Zawahiri’s call for attacks on Pakistan Security forces following the Lal Masjid seige should be reason enough for us all to open our eyes that there was a direct link between the Lal Masjid clerics and Al-Qaeda/Taliban. Was Zawahiri, who has no trouble killing innocent women and children, in a bout of compassion for the innocent civilians, avenging their deaths?. No…his revenge was purely for Maulana Ghazi and his foreign comrades who were killed by the Pakistan Security forces. The grand plan of having a mosque in Pakistan’s capital from which to extend its idealogy was destroyed, and this was what prompted the response.

Also, we mourn the loss of every innocent civilian who lost his/her life in this tragic incident. But we must not forget that the security forces showed tremendous restraint and lost their own men in the process. Otherwise, the Lal Masjid could have been razed with a couple of rockets.

Finally, we must try to remain consistent. These conspiracy theories about Musharraf using Lal Masjid to divert attention off the CJ case are baseless. The Lal Masjid shot to fame in Jan when our sisters with sticks were flashed across all the channels. At that time, almost everyone was ridiculing the government about its inaction. Then after the March 9 incident with the CJ, the opposition started exploiting the incident to futher their own political goals and tried to paint the Lal Masjid as a conspiracy theory. And finally, the media which I have tremendous respect for, decided to make a U-Turn on the entire incident.

Let us unite to fight the menace of extremism. Let us exhaust all means of peaceful dialog to reach a settlement avoiding the use of force until necessary.

United we stand! This is not about moderates or extremists. This is about Pakistan.

admin bhaiyya,
stop these kind of hatared exchange of words plz……
we dont want to clash views in a way that we cud nt reach to any point and fight just for the sake of fight ….
plz do something boss!

If one side we have so called religious extremists on other side we have these fascist liberal extremists - who are worse because they cannot tolerate any difference in opinion and would go to any length to achieve their objectives. See for yourself how they are killing people in Iraq - is this is what Musharraf calls enlightened moderation - Americans killed 50 people in raid saying they had struck the extremists and one could clearly see they were nothing but women and children. So in fact by this attack America has produced 10 times more extremists it had gone it to kill.

What is englightened moderation in Musharraf’s dictionary - Take off your clothes and sing and do everything which any society and any religion - does not allow. Englighted moderation is should be about the thought process ecompassing capacity to tolerate dissent and willing to accept one’s mistakes and not imposing your will on others just because one believes that only you are right and others are wrong.

Aunty Shamim was involved in prostittuion and police had been many times been requested to take action but to no avail. It is very evident that there are many beauty palours who are actually dens of prostitution and if one does not beleive me one can actually go there and you would find it out.

Even in a country like Pakistan naked Mujras are taking place and this has become more in frequency and intensity since the champion of enlightened moderation came in power.

You expect religious extremists to follow rule of law but the basis of your goverment is uspuration of consititution of Pakistan when you toppled a geninuiley elected goverment of Pakistan and you violated teh oath of Pakistan. So what if you had managed to get a few bayzamir judges to validate your coup - does that make it legal - absolutely no.

You have not only involved yourself in corruption like PTCL privatization, Steel Mills Privatization, sugar scandel, Stock Exchange scandel and what not. Karachi Stock exchange is teh only stock exchange in teh world which defies all odds and all rational activity in that it goes up instead of going down after any major disastor - be it May 12 or Oct 18. Why? Simple because the government is putting money in it to artificially keep it bouyant and when it will crash thousands and thousands of people would lose their money. But befre that people would have taken their money out who are manipulating these markets.

This is englightened moderation - Zindabad Musharraf, Zindabad BB and Zindabad their American agenda of enlightened moderation.

Even Fazl ur Rehman has now joined them. He first cheated NS and now says Qazi let him down. If he was so worried about dissolving assemblies then why did he say that whatever APDM would decide he would follow them. He shouldnt have joined them. He is the worst hypocrite in the world - or the best politician as some would say.

It is not religious extremism we should worry about we should be worry about these fanatic liberal extremist who invaded our society after 11 September.

As nation most of ppls are confuse what to expect i would advise to go to the beginning means what Quran and Sunnah have to say about who is extreemist or who is naive.

By the way i have launched the website (www.ummahzone.com) of my Teacher Scholar Sheikh Imran Hosein who have wrote so many books and have several lectures on upcoming events according to Quran and sunnah… i have uploaded Books, and DVD’s will be ready inshallah by this week… check out the web site at : http://www.ummahzone.com

I am much grieved to see such sad and sensitive issue made into a war of words. My twopence of thought on it all:

Lal Masjid was one of the saddest events in the history of Pakistan and Islam. on the one hand it depicted the pigheadedness of Musharraf’s regime and twisting of sensitive situation to suit his purpose and on the other it showed the total lack of vision and lack of knowledge of Islam on part of the Maulanas. It was most sad. Where in Islam does it say to create a deprived class in society who are not well versed in knowledge of the world? Muslims are supposed to be the leaders in the world and how can you be a leader if you do not know a thing about modern knowledge? The result being that we create a class of people who have a narrow vision of Islam. They usually belong to unfortunate sections of society and hence their is a sense of deprivation in them which makes them more and more desperate. We do not provide practical knowledge to them with the result that they cannot even make a decent living. The things the Lal masjid people were protesting against were not wrong. For example prostitution etc. But the way they were doing it was wrong. Its true that the present regime is far from an ideal of an Islamic system but this is not how you bring about a change. This way only brings anarchy. Moreover, the maulanas were absolutely wrong in endangering lives of so many innocent children. Very much wrong. The government was wrong in its handling of the issue. This is not how you resolve conflicts. You don’t kill your own people. This is also what they are doing in Waziristan etc.

I am most distressed to see some of the people with such a narrow approach towards religion especially regarding women. What do you mean by “mixing of men and women”! Does it imply that in your mind whenever men and women work together there is something wrong going on? What is the code of conduct in Islam for then? What about the concept of hijab for men and women? In early islamic days women were teased by non muslims and so the concept of hijab for women rose. The concept still holds but if women do not feel safe in their own coutry, with their own fellow Muslims, then to hell with all of the Muslim men like some of the guys here! I would say then that non Muslims men are better than you in this respect. At least they leave women alone and don’t pester them. The comments of Syed Khan and his likes bring to mind people who think that if a woman is outside her home its their right to pester her. There is a middle way between a Western haywire woman and a vegetative, locked-at-home woman. Can’t you see that? Are you such perverts that the mere mention of woman brings nothing but lewd thoughts in your mind? Women are different but this does not make them inferior or objects for your discussion as your statements indicate. I think you do not have enough exposure to have known women who are very successful professionals while still being very pious and dutiful women in every sense of the word. And I simply detest the way you are carrying on a discussion on women sounding like the ultimate authority on them. What do you know of women? Are you one? What do you know about capabilities of women, their problems, their issues? And you have the nerve to go on arguing with your half baked knowlege of islam and your pathetic opinion about women! No one has the right to pass sweeping statements about women without their consent and involvement, get this thing clear in your mind once and for all.

@ Maulana Aziz Enthusiasts

For the sake of answering your pathetic sexist pseudo-moralistic cum religiously nauesaeating questions

1. Would you allow your blah blah…
Ans: Yes of course.

For your information, my mother worked as an educationist for 40 years. 40 YEARS you dimwitted numbskulls! And I am proud of her. Wherever I go, I always meet her ex-students. BOYS. Men. You know, the other gender.
My female relatives and acquaintances are damn good doctors, engineers, scientists, mathematicians. My wife is also a working woman, a highly educated talented and religious lady. I have no problems with that too. When I will have children isha-Allah, and with daughters, I will also let them go out of the house.

Satisfied?

2. As for Maulana Aziz
I do not know how he got the title Maulana.
Just by rotting the Quran by heart doesnot make you a Hafiz. To illustrate my point, do you know about Ghazwa-e-Motah? It was a ghazwa where many huffaz embraced martyrdom, and it is said that at that time there was a fear that the number of huffaz was dangerously low. Now do you think at that time, there was any muslim who did not know the Quran by heart? NO. The point is that in that Hafiz-Quran was someone who not only remembered the Quran by heart but also implemented it on himself as a whole.

Assuming that this was legit, and he was a hafiz-e-quran, and a religious scholar. I would still want to know the justification of storing arms and ammo, enough to hold off a whole SSG platoon for days on end, the digging up of intricate network of tunnels, the hostage taking of girl students etc etc.

I am not justifying what Mush did. But if you know that your opponent is going to kill people under your charge, then what is better? Saving innocent lives or feeding your ego? And then, even then, not having the nerve to die for what you beleive, but letting others die, while you flee disguised as a woman amid women. The very gender you so espouse to hate and keep at arms length.

But I know there is no way I can teach people like you anything because of your tunnel vision. Not until you are sincere in finding out the truth yourself. If you stop regurgitating what your tiny little minds heard from semi-literate imams, then maybe you will see reason.

@ Khurram
your logic is very strange. You should not ignore the ground reality and geography.

If lawlessness and lack of democracy is so good for creativity, then give me examples of Afghanistan between 1978 - 2007, Iraq after US invasion, Vietnam during their troubled years and lawlessness and even Zia’s Martial Law’s impact on Pakistan film industry.

I am much grieved to see such sad and sensitive issue made into a war of words. My twopence of thought on it all:
Lal Masjid was one of the saddest events in the history of Pakistan and Islam. On the one hand it depicted the stubbornness of Musharraf’s regime and twisting of sensitive situation to suit his purpose and on the other it showed the total lack of vision and lack of knowledge of Islam on part of the Maulanas. It was most sad. Where in Islam does it say to create a deprived class in society who are not well versed in knowledge of the world? Muslims are supposed to be the leaders in the world and how can you be a leader if you do not know a thing about modern knowledge? The result being that we create a class of people who have a narrow vision of Islam. They usually belong to unfortunate sections of society and hence their is a sense of deprivation in them which makes them more and more desperate. We do not provide practical knowledge to them with the result that they cannot even make a decent living. The things the Lal masjid people were protesting against were not wrong. For example prostitution etc. But the way they were doing it was wrong. Its true that the present regime is far from an ideal of an Islamic system but this is not how you bring about a change. This way only brings anarchy. Moreover, the maulanas were absolutely wrong in endangering lives of so many innocent children. Very much wrong. The government was wrong in its handling of the issue. This is not how you resolve conflicts. You don’t kill your own people. This is also what they are doing in Waziristan etc.

Quote:
____________
One thing is not clear, do people against Mulana Aziz preaching the lawful, moral and Islamic activities of Aunty Shamaim and co.
_____________
In every civilized state their is a due process of law. No state can allow vigilante style street justice. This leads to anarchy. Islam like any other civil code of life treats every one equal before law and gives the right of conviction to courts and right of law enforcement to state. If these Maulanas had any grievences then they should have adopted a lawful way. Instead they opted for violance.

The case of Ant Shamim is extremely shameful. Blaming someone for prostitution is a shameful act. Ican put the same blame on Umm ehsan? Can I abduct her and her daughters and drag them on strteets? If not then how give these hypocrites authority? Aunti Shamim is bad or not is still unproved. But it has been proved that these brothers created Fitna that is considered worst than murder in Islam. All Islamic scholars considered actions of these Maulanas highly unislamic.

They deserved what they got. The whole nation supported Mush on this action. Not a single voice of protest came from any political or religious quarter.

Some realities of Lal Masjid: Before & After:

Before:
1. Everyone from Media to religious parties: all wanted action against this Jamia. A hype about lawlessness was created.

2. All politicians decided to go to London. Even Imran Khan refused to condemn governments because Maulana brothers were ‘at fault too’ and ‘we all are sad’.

3. Media created a hype and forced government into taking action.

4. We all were happy to some extent whether we accept it or not.

After:

1. It lasted longer and more people died than we imagined.

2. Media and politicians got scared of public or religious reaction and they all changed their tones. They started saying the they only ‘disagreed with the way’ the Maulana brothers were working.

3. It was a good way to counter Musharraf. All politics is a good politics!!!

If such thing happens again, results will be similar. First Government will be pushed and then condemned. This policy will have two pluses: job done and victim’s anger directed towards government. WE ARE HYPOCRITES!!

The treatment metted out to Abdul Aziz was certainly deplorable, grossly humiliating and outrageously mean. Having said that my question is does Islam approve of religious vigilanties and non-state actors who take law in their hand in the presence of a central government, even if later is not strictly religious. Is there a single such example in the Muslim history.
Can anyone build a masjid/madarassah on illegaly acquired land as per Islamic injunctions.
Mullah’s demand for implementation of shariah in the country,and their drive against video shops and prostitution was a smoke screen used to distract people’s attention from their illegal qabza of the govt land.
This was a classical case of chicken coming home to roost, for the military.

The Islamic Society promotes Dictatorship.
Imam of a Mosques, behaves like a Dictator.
One cannot move a LOTA without his authority.
The first lesson, a muslim child learns, is submission. To ask a question is discouraged. Under the shadow of submission, the process of brain-washing helps the Imam to cultivate Fanatacism.
Can any one name a single Democrattic State in the Islamic World?

Guys,

All MP3s for programs in last 3-4 days will be uploaded today.

Admin

@Democrat

So, you are saying that you would allow your sister, mother, daughter to go and mix with any men ..it doesn’t matter for you. Am I missing something here.

@ Commoner

You are correct. Similar to the Lal Masjid, all encroachments of land anywhere should be immediately demolished. In my hometwown, there is fake shrine of “Peer Quttay Shah” built on the dead body of a poor dog.

Enough is enough; and people are tired of these “hum jins”, and so-called pious, ones!

@ Commoner

You are correct. Similar to the Lal Masjid, all encroachments of land anywhere for any pretext (religious, educational) should be immediately demolished.

Enough is enough; and people are tired of these “hum jins

@Admin
I have been a frequent visitor to your website and I noticed that some viewers have undermined your website credibility due to their own arrogance, ignorance and hatred. This in return create unnecessary hurt to others.

As an administrator with ethics, I would suggest that you consider appropriate action. Even freedom of speech has a limit.

@ Syed Khan

The answer to your question is again YES. Because: it should be the choice of all women to mix with other men. This principle applies to womenfolk everywhere (including those belonging to the family of yours and mine). Men are not supposed to be dictators in a society–as they are in Saudi Arabia. Does it answer my question?

NOW: didn’t Maulana Maudoodi mix with Mohtarma Fatima Jinnah by nominating and supporting her candidacy in the 1964 presidential elections? Yes or No?

On the checkmate of Qazi of Jamat-e-Islami

-Though being an arch opponent of USA, and preaching poor pople to send their sons to madrassas and Jihad, his Son Asif Luqman Qazi Holds a Masters Degree From Boston University USA. So this …. got his education from infidels, and mixed with women?

Why some Lal Bhujjakars are forcing to implement whole of the Islam upon Women?
To plead for keeping the women away from men, indicates the weakness of IMAN. Logically it is to accept that a Muslim man cannot control his ‘SHAITAN’.
Why men and women are allowed to perform Hajj, together?
Here in the USA no man can touch women, without her permission and consent. This is known as discipline and humanity.

I totally agree with saqibtahir. Whatever these maulana bros did was wrong. They burned down people’s public property which is unlawful. they are there to TEACH religion not ENFORCE it. there is a whole separate system to enforce law. I also agree with Kami about his ideas that how people especially media changed its tone after the operation. It is just common sense, how can you let a person go who challenges the country’s law and its government. Even if govt give them a free hand to do whatever they want, what would be Pakistan’s reputation. These Maulanas wnat to force Jungle law not Isalamic laws. As per Shamim is concerned, you have to take notice of factor that she was running prostitution business because she was getting her clients. What answers these Maulanas have if someone to ask them that how would they change the country’s law if the men in their own neighborhood are running to prostitutes.

http://www.pakistanuncut.com/2007/10/22/benazir-bhutto-a-kleptocrat-in-a-hermes-scarf/#more-1152

This is an article by Jemima about Benazir Bhutto and is published in The Telegraph.

JI has never asked people not to send their kids to US or UK for higher education. Madrassa are an alternative for providing some level of education to the most poor in our society. Its tha part where all the goverments have failed to provide free education and health to masses. Instead of blaming JI or any other party, the successive goverments should be blamed. Had the goverments done their job, there would be no Maddrassa in Pakistan. Another reason why parents send their kids to Maddrass is cause they feel that the education provided by the goverment instituions doesn’t provide any solid relgious education. We are muslims and the religous education must be part of our educational system.

JI has never asked people not to send their kids to US or UK for higher education. Madrassa are an alternative for providing some level of education to the most poor in our society. Its tha part where all the goverments have failed to provide free education and health to masses. Instead of blaming JI or any other party, the successive goverments should be blamed. Had the goverments done their job, there would be no Maddrassa in Pakistan. Another reason why parents send their kids to Maddrass is cause they feel that the education provided by the goverment instituions doesn’t provide any solid relgious education. We are muslims and the religous education must be part of our educational system.

Plz understand the political and social issues before making comments that are 30 years old.

Admin you have till put my comment for moderation. Why? There is nothing wrong with it and it doenst contain anything which should hurt anyone.

The society has double standards. On one hand they regard islamist as narrow minded by keeping them restrained to the teaching of Islam only. On the other hand, when someone from the same class goes to foreign countries for education, they at once call it an unislamic act more quickly than a fatwa from an islamic scholar without any evidence from the quran, sunnah or even no evidence of his personal acts of misdirecting from the essence of religion.

I really feel this is the result of the religious disparity caused by the Musharraf regime creating so much distances between the people who intend to follow their religion by practicing it and those who are not so much proud of the basic pillars of islam.

It is rightly said that one should not put ears to those who have sensed not even a pence of smell of true islam and listen to just what Islam says clearly. It is easier to please Allah than a bunch of so called educated class dying to get enlightenedly moderated.

I wish people go to Bush or Musharraf for all kind of religious guidance since he has defined almost all the pillars of his new Islam, after Shehanshah Akbar.

Since 1950, and during the Cold War, Pakistan’s economy and Military Force always depended upon America.
Political parties, including JI were funded to work against Russian Communism.
After 9/11, America stopped funding and helping the religious groups, associated with Taliban School of Thought.
These groups switched their sympathy to Terrorism, in order to stay in business.
Hostorically, they are plying the last over.

aoa

i think religious studeis should carry on but alongside this they should also be taught normal subjects like maths, science etc.

Aftab, do you consider religious studies ‘abnormal subject’?

We do have Islamic studies in schools, colleges and universities as compulsory subject.

- On the products and refugees of Lal Masjids

What is most dangerous and worrisome is that these elements are now a fertile recruiting ground for terrorist activities and suicide bombings; and these can easily play into the hands of the Chaudhrys of Gujrat, the infamous Ejaz ul Haq, and leaders of such mercenaries as Brig (r) Ijaz Shah.

The result will be polarization of society and a civil war. Maybe a logical ending!

@saqibtahir
QUOTE
Those who want religious education should do it after reaching adulthood.
UNQUOTE
…excuse me but you fascists dont even believe in relegious freedom??? hypocrites!
Every Muslim is dutybound by ISLAM (FACT) to gain basic relegious education but ofcourse if your relegion (surely cant be islam) dictates something else please feel fee to follow your beliefs.

NO OFFENCE BUT ENGLIGHTEN PLEASE

Quote:
__________
…excuse me but you fascists dont even believe in relegious freedom??? hypocrites!
_________
I always advocated freedoms because essence of democracy is freedoms. Religios freedoms are one of the great blessings of democracy. Every one should be free to choose and practice hi religion as far as it is under the law.

Mullas on the other hand want supermacy of theinarrow sectarian vision of Islam. For this they use killing and violance as a justified mean. This is trait of faciasm. We want Pakistan to be according to Quaid’s vision.

I dont agree that saqibtahir’s comment be deleted. the ones I see so far contain no abusive language. He has the right to express himself. [May be you have already deleted .. and I dont see the ones who offended others']

I however dont agree with saqibtahir that this mulla should get capital punishment. What this mulla did was not right, they challenged the writ of the govt. they should be prosecuted in accordance with the law.

Having said that, its not this mulla only who has challenged the writ. The Govt. has no control in many rural [and urban area]. They all should be brought to justice.

Unfortunately, ours is a country where , there is no law.

@admin

When are you going to upload Jewab Deyh with Jehangir Badr of PPP ??

@DEMOCRAT @saqibtahir
QUOTE
- On the products and refugees of Lal Masjids

What is most dangerous and worrisome is that these elements are now a fertile recruiting ground for terrorist activities and suicide bombings; and these can easily play into the hands of the Chaudhrys of Gujrat, the infamous Ejaz ul Haq, and leaders of such mercenaries as Brig (r) Ijaz Shah.

The result will be polarization of society and a civil war. Maybe a logical ending!
UNQUOTE

1. Clearly you dont believe in due process of law when it comes to so called liberals, any bloodshed is always justified because it is to uphold the supposedly superior liberal being. I am no Pro Mullah but Please explain what justifies the use of chemical weapons (widely accepted WP was used)on its own population even if there was a serial criminal involved. What happened to the due process of law? Which court authorised this massacre? Why do we not see it in your supposedly enlightened US every time there is a gang in the street? What happened to innocent till proven guilty?
2. It is the govts policies which incite terrorism and extremism in most cases. What will you do if your brother/son happened to be gassed beyond recognition just because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time or HAVING BEEN FAILED BY THE SAME NAPAK GOVT, NAPAK ARMY, NAPAK SYSTEM, NAPAK STATE as a poor resident who couldnt afford to get mainstream education. It is a real double whammy, first you fail them, then you turn them into a religious student, then you slaughter them in the name of liberal agenda AND EXPECT THEM TO NOT RAISE AN EYEBROW…..WAKE UP THEY ARE ONLY HUMANS AND YES “EVERY ACTION HAS A REACTION”

3. Your argument doesnt make sense re Govt chamchas????? …..excuse me but these are your liberal idealogue Musharraf’s foot soldiers and mouthpieces ….WORD HYPOCRISY COMES TO MIND???

Im sorry but some times @DEMOCRAT you make sense but other times you seem to lose it all…No offence but do you have a split personality??…Rather than always siding with one of the camps we should be open and honest in our debates…there are gross issues with both liberals and religious lot in Pak at the moment so lets speak the truth!

@saqibtahir
Bro please try and be objective most of the times as you usually come across as bigoted and full of hatred for everyone who happens to hold a different view point…

@saqibtahir
Quote:
__________
…excuse me but you fascists dont even believe in relegious freedom??? hypocrites!
_________
I always advocated freedoms because essence of democracy is freedoms. Religios freedoms are one of the great blessings of democracy. Every one should be free to choose and practice hi religion as far as it is under the law.

Mullas on the other hand want supermacy of theinarrow sectarian vision of Islam. For this they use killing and violance as a justified mean. This is trait of faciasm. We want Pakistan to be according to Quaid’s vision.
UNQUOTE

THANKS BUT CAN YOU NOW EXPLAIN YOUR QUOTE AND ANSWER MY QUESTION:
“Those who want religious education should do it after reaching adulthood.”
HOW DOES THIS RECONCILE TO YOUR PROPOSED FREEDOM AGENDA?

BeautifulMind,
I am not against religious education. Religion is personal matter of people. But the kind of Madrasa system promoted by Zia only exist in Pakistan. In all Islamic countries, school system is controlled by state and have a standardized education. Befoer Zia such system existed in Pakistan too. Schools should have non-sctarian Islamic studies as compulsary in all grades that should be centered on morals rather just rituals. Exra religious education as per perseonal sectarioan beliefs is a personal matter and state should not involve in it unless they see any unlawful teaching or activity.

This model exists even in Saudia.

BeautifulMind,
Here is my explaination for what I said:
“Those who want religious education should do it after reaching adulthood.

@Democrat

Thanks for the answer. I think you have gone to far without realizing whatever you are saying is against Islam.
Anyway, I only can pray for you and your cousin (Salam Rushdi).

@saqibtahir
Quote
_____
Mullas on the other hand want supermacy of theinarrow sectarian vision of Islam. For this they use killing and violance as a justified mean. This is trait of faciasm. We want Pakistan to be according to Quaid’s vision.
____

1. I agree that Mullahs are generally sectarian and narrow minded…but why? Its because they are the failed children of a broken society….what do you expect? Pakistan has failed them? while our resources were usurped by napak army and elite (mostly so called liberal)….

2. Mullah doesnt represent Islam and we shouldnt judge islam by the action of Mullahs……even in glorious period of islamic past there was no such species as a mullah..rather there was a progressive society giving full relegious freedoms more than are ever enjoyed by minorities in west today…still living by its beliefs and culture…..

3. Question: Is and should Quaid be the ultimate authority on how Pakistanis should live their lives for generations and centuries to come? Surely pakistani people and nation should have the freedom to choose our destiny? Whatever they end up choosing?
Other wise the logic is the same as used for forced marriages ie. coz i am responsible for bringing you into this world, you have to do as i say..dont you think?

Bless you all

@saqibtahir

Thanks for your answer re religious education.
Just to let you know what i think…Islam should not be professionalised …..there is no concept of Maulvi/Mullah in Islam as proven by our historical facts.

@ Beautiful Mind

I am consistent throughout my condemnation of violence–be it military-sponsored or pepetuated by any mullah or chamcha. [Who initiates becomes a moot point eventually]. Also I have been warning all along of the hatred being spread throughout and of the prevasive gangsterism from all sides–which is likely to destroy the country. Hope I am wrong for the sake of ives of 99.99 percent poor, hardworking, and innocent people.

“there is no concept of Maulvi/Mullah in Islam as proven by our historical facts”

Absolutely. I agree BeautyfulMind 110%.
It is not just historical facts but Quran and Hadeeth suuports it. Principle of Islam is LAA RAHBANIAT FIL ISLAM i.e. there is no priesthood in Islam.

Iqbal Said:
KIYON KHALIQ O MAKHLOOQ MAIN HAIL RAHAIN PARDAY
PEERAN-E-KALEESA KO KALEESA SAY HATA DOU

i respect the views of my friends, but iam still confused that mullahs,politicians, and even the poor pety thieves are held accountable, but when was the last time a general or even a captain in the pak army was held accountable? i met with a lot people from iran,bangladesh, afghanistan, srilanka and some indian muslims. they all were eager to blame and malign pakistan because of its policies and i wondered who formulates these policies, i came to the conclusion that it is the ARMY. People dont promote hate it unfortunately is the army who grooms these mullahs and politicians and the fact is that we cannot confront the army. THE OTHER IMPORTANT THING THAT I HAVE NOTICED IS THAT ALL OF MY FREINDS HERE OPPOSE THE MADRASSA SYSTEM; THE EDUCATION IS SO EXPENSIVE THAT POOR PEOPLE HAVE NO WHERE ELSE TO GO , INFACT THEY SHOULD BE APPRECIATED THAT ATLEAST THEY WANT TO EDUCATE THEIR CHILDREN. THEY CAN’T EVEN SPEAK LIKE MANY OF US, THIS SENSE OF DEPRIVATION AND BEING NEGLECTED PAVES THE WAY FOR EXTREMISM. I DO NOT SUPPORT MADRASSAS BUT WHY THAT SECTION OF THE SOCIETY IS ALWAYS TREATED WITH DISRESPECT AND NOT THE SHAMELESS ARMY?

@ Syed Khan

Here’s a wonderful piece from one of the postings on this site–for the clarification of those who wish to decide what is for or against Islam. Principle of Islam is LAA RAHBANIAT FIL ISLAM i.e. there is no priesthood in Islam.

Also, there is no room for kingship in Islam. Tell it to the House of Saud.

You still haven’t answered my query on the role of women in Islam: “Why could not Mohtarama Fatima Jinnah be supported as the presidential candidate in 1964″?

absolutely right there is certainly no room for kingship in our miscontrued religion, but the important thing is that where do the saudis derive their strength from? why the leaders of muslim nations accept them as saviours? for instance mush bhai and other dictators like him seem crippled when there is some sort of discord between them and saudia. the fact is that the kings are looked upon as guardians of faith and whenever people like u and me raise there voices against monarchs in saudia, in our own countries, we are silenced by the rulers like mush, under the pretext of committing blasphemy against the religion itself; they do all this to satisfy to keep cordial relationships with the rapacious monarchs of arabia for endless supply of money.
and as far fatima jinnah’s issue is concerned it was again unfettered power of the army that set aside faima jinnah despite her popular support which lead to ethnic clashes in karachi;otherwise, she was far better than that arrogant ayub khan who was founders of the discord between east and west pakistan.

Saqib Tahir ust SHUT UP , no comment on you.

Khurrum when u said lke…in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.
……U know what….swiss is on top of the world not just for cuckoo atch….contact me i will explain u the difference between swiss and italyy if u cant find anything from net…just make ur records right beafore u talk anything.

Jahil Mullani of Hafsa:
Please see the following video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fmFNO00u2GY
Most likely this is umm-Ehsn the maan of terrorists. She starts her spech with these words:
Girls stand on your feet. We have to beg from RUBB (Cherisher and Sustainer )
Alaah who is creator of me and you. He is not RUBB of these Kafirs, Munafiqs and Zalims. He says I am Muslim’s ..I am not RUBB of Kafirs I am Muslims RUBB, I am RUBB of faithful …..”

Every Muslim every times recite Sura Fateha several times. In this Sura Allah calls himself RUBB-AL-AALMIN (RUBB of both Alims).

The so-called principal of a so-called Madarasa is so poor in her knowledge that she does not either know meaning of Sura Fateha or sh was deliberately misguiding these poor girls.

This was the knowlege of these so called Ulema. What a bunch of bigots.

Reply to Shaz:
_____________
One thing is not clear, do people against Mulana Aziz preaching the lawful, moral and Islamic activities of Aunty Shamaim and co.
_____________
Two wrongs cannot make one right. Lal Mullas did many crimes as per their own Sunni-Deobandi Sharia. Similarly Aunt Shamim is still innocent till proven guilty as per Deobandi Sharia.

I request all Islam lovers to ponder on following points:

1. According to Sharia law those who accuse Aunt Shamim must produce 4 eye witnesses in a court of law else they are themselves punishable by HUDD of 100 lashes. This is the first crime of Lal Mullas.
2. Islam protects privacy of people. No one is allowed to enter any house without permission. Evidence of Zina collected by trespassing is not permissable in Islamic law. Under Sharia Lal Mullas are punishable for raiding Shamim’s house and invading her privacy.
3. Islam allows capital punishment only in two cases (murder and Fitna). Islam consider FITNA worst than Kufr. Fitna is defined as armed rebellion against state. There is a consensus among Islamic jurists on this issue. This is the third and the largest crime of Lal Mullas.
4. Fourth crime of Lal Mullas is murder and bodily injury to many people
5. Fifth crime is abduction of people by invading their homes and privacy

All above crimes are punishable by Sharia.

Aunt Shamim is good or bad only God knows. Anyone who calls her prostitute should fear from God because he/she is punishable for repeating a blame of Zina without 4 eye witnesses. Full stop. Stop making fun of Islam.

BREAKING NEWS:

BB HAS IDENTIFIED CH. PERVAIZ ILLAHI IN HER FIR AS ONE OF THE THREE PERSONS RESPONSIBLE FOR SETTING UP THE KARACHI BLASTS > ACCORDING TO TARIQ AZEEM FROM LIVE WITH TALAT….

I would like to say all readers, it seem to me that all of you… must be living overseaes or if in Pakistan, them must be belongs to middle class
(only 5% population of Pakistan are middle or above middle class, who can able to afford comuter and internet.)
There are FIVE type groups of people in Pakistan…..
A ) are uneducated + belong to poor family + low IQ = who have no hope in their life,no job, no future joint the masjed and fellow mullahs for every thing and so on.
B)come from Rich family, who are socalled educated, selfish, normal or low IQ = joint political parties to rule the Pakistan
C) middle class …joint public service , army , so called commentators, lawyers etc

D)Pakistani people …who like to follow every abdul aziz, bhutto, Nawaz ,altaf hussain, inran khan + Plus and

E) the last group…..like us on this site….we have lot of time to nothing bu t to to kill the time, …talk big, talk a lot,talk any thing but good talk to much talk about AA, BB, NS .AH, IM , Pakistan, Islam etc…….Please say to honestly to yourself or go on record and tell on this site…in last one year how much total personal income you had fron honest mean, in one year and how much money you donated to poor people (NOT YOUR RELATIVES).
Please nice to each other in your comment .
thanks

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_4F7oBEL2Sw

BB is probably right. Shujat, Pervaiz Ilahi and Arbab didn’t even shown any sorrow on this sad event rather they did ‘tichkirs’.

Although I am not and never was with ghazi brothers but I was very sad when they insulted him like that. And even president wasn’t happy on that treatment. But as far as the operation is concerened I think it was justified because no state allows such elements to challenge the writ of the government. And they were given ample time to surrender. After that if they wanted martyrdom (shahadat)…..well they got it. Fitna is one of the biggest sin and those two were involved in spreading it. Punishing people for wrongdoing is responsibility of the state. If state is not doing it then one should try to change the leadership through peaceful means. In any case disrupting peace of the society is not allowed.