MMA is a shameless party whose agenda is based on sheer hypocrisy. These maulvies criticize the government on TV but they support it from the backdoors.

Bomb blast near Musharraf’s HQ kills 7

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071031/ap_on_re_as/pakistan;_ylt=AuQidhtplFKIn71_0rWcylUBxg8F

TO ALL RELIGIOUS DEBATORS ON THIS SITE, consider the following immediate matter:

The national press carried a picture of a young girl burning her school books in Quetta. The reason: she could not pay her school fees and accordingly had been dismissed by the school administration. Her brother, probably the sole bread winner of the family, had been picked up by the intelligence agencies and converted into a ‘missing person’ (obviously without going through due process of law and against the directions of the Supreme Court of Pakistan).

Pakistan premier broke the law

http://www.majagama.com/2007/10/31/pakistan-premier-broke-the-law/

what are they askin for ???islam and shriat….n we are killin them???

dear admin where is parliament gallery,,,plz upload the fresh episod.thnx

I don’t understand one thing. If you want to be a good Muslim just practice Islam on your own, why you want it to be imposed? Islam doesn’t say to impose it by guns and bullets! I don’t support military operation on any Pakistani citizen but I think in a situation like this any head of state would do the same as Musharraf did. These people in Swat and Waziristan breaks the law by killing Muslims and tries to justify it by using Islam as their shield. I don’t understand why they stress so much on shriat? If govt is not making shriat laws than go head and follow shriat in you life and suggest other people PEACEFULLY to do the same. This is not a solid reason to violate shriat itself by doing such rampage. These militant leaders think that they will kill Muslims, become public heroes and will go to heaven straight away. I think its not that simple. This means that you mess around all your life and in the end just kill a Pakistani soldier, and you qualify to go to heaven.

I am absolutely agreed with Javed comments. It is not that simple. If it were then why the whole Quran was sent to a nation of Billion of Muslims. Interestingly, I am a Pakistani and Muslim and when I see other Muslims all over the world, I see a difference in Pakistanis’ attitudes over religion. Indonesia has the biggest Muslim Population, I believe three times as that of Pakistan’s population, why this kind of uprising doesn’t happen there. India has more number of Muslims than Muslims all combined in Pakistan, why they don’t behave in such a weird manner. Similarly, the whole middle east and other muslim countries behave responsibly except Pakistanis. It is just because since the creation of Pakistan, there was no LAW and Order. Everybody was allowed to break and play with the law so these so called Islamists think that if politicians can break the law, why can’t them then.

MMA had enjoyed government for 5 years and shirked every responsibility by passing it over to the fedral government. How can they do that? If they were not in control and fedral government was constantly interfering then they should have resigned. But who wants to be deprived of all those facilities for some measly principles.

–???– After reinstallation of windows XP i am not able to watch the videos . Can somebody tel why so. Is there any software required?. Flash plugin, directx, shokwave I have installed already…. Any clue?

i don’t know why? but talat is becoming boring now.

Islam is not imposed, there is a a mafhood of a hadith, “Deen Main Koi Jabar nahin”. The people translated it differently. I heard from a Maulana that for entering Islam, there is no jabar or you cannot force but when you enter islam, it imposes on your life. Mr. Javed if I beleive you are a good muslim and act upon all the shariat laws, then it would not be necessary. Actually, the media and other channels are creating so munafiqs in our nation, then it would be too difficult to examine who is muttaqi and who is munafiq. If we have to practice good , then ALLAH doesn’t send the messengers. A mafhoom of Hadith. “When you see a wrong doing, stop it by your hand, if you don’t hold the capacity, do by your tongue and the least is think bad in your heart”. So Mr. Javed do you think if you see a wrong doing and you are feeling it in your heart. Thats what they are doing , they are stopping by their hand. Musharraf is spreading a lot of fahashi and uryani nowadays. Who is going to stop this ? Will farishta’s came or I closed my door?

@Zia

are u able to view other video? go to this site and see if u can watch other videos

http://www.viddler.com

@Zia
Install flash

@Zeeshan

Indonesia is secular country. It has clubs, drinks and sex. You want this in Pakistan?

I want Sharia and Islam law in my country.

@Faisal

Read Quran please. “Deen Main Koi Jabar nahin� is in Quran and not in Hadith. It means one cannot make someone Muslim by force. A a non-Muslim has right to be remain non-Muslim but pay Jaziya.
Furthermore, Quran also teach us to cut hand of thief, and punish a rapist.

I want those Islamic laws implemented in Pakistan. At least those which are in Quran clearly mentioned. For example about Riba/Interest.

@zeeshan and Javed

These maulvis only want the laws that can be derived from the quran and the sunnah.

I dont see anything wrong with that, but I disagree with their method.

Theyll need a country wide Tanzeem for it otherwise do they really think they can defeat the army??

And why do you think the Quran mentions all those different types of punishments for different crimes??–If it is not to be implemented in the system/if the parliment can pass anylaw contradicting the quran.

Should we not take them seriously..or do you take them as a joke???Or maybe you see yourself exempted from it.

it is rather unfortunate that somehow we as pakistanis have adopted the mentality that we are the nation that has the responsibility of delivering and upholding the religion, the way no other country or generation has done. in context what i want to emphasis is that we in a way have radicalised our general population. everything in nature has a balance which if obstructed brings the whole system down. but today we are overt in our expression of our own religious understanding. not only that but our expression of religion has also spread out and clawed its way into even our cricket team. believing in a religion is not bad at all but then again faith is for an individual himself and for the way he/she themselves interpret it. today it has actually metamorphisised into a cult. today a youth sees avian t display of religion in pakistan be it watching maulvis express their fundamentalists views on tv or real time display on the pakistani roads. and due to this our society is suffering. cutting our sources of entertainment and as a result having a large impact on the mood of the society. today why does a pakistani always dream about going abroad one day because of a yet simple but oblivious factor. we have no form of constant entertainment for our general population. because abroad ppl will go into bars and clubs and ppl are almost guarantee to do something or the other.

Due to this what happens is that one of the major taxable industries is flushed down the toilet. your three major taxable industries our or so to speak were tobacco, oil and alcohol till about 1977. dont get me wrong but if a muslim is that ardent on non consumption of alcohol then probably he will abstain as well, when it is purchasable. due to this effect our economy also suffers heavy losses but yet its available for higher prices and believe me if someone wants to consume alcohol it really is not that difficult to find esp in a place like lahore or karachi (and this consumption is not taxable). and as a result of banning it (a lesser evil) we have given rise to yet another genie out of the bottle, so to speak of the hash and heroin indstry to which there seems no immediate remedy. today 10 crore ppl in pakistan are under the age of 25 and the rest our the ones that have not only not taught us much on a larger perspective they have actually ruined it. u guys now have to determine if there is a time for a principle change in ideology and following. the decision i leave up to u to decide. thank you very much for your time and patience that u could have spent somewhere else rather than reading my article. cheers and thx
pakistan zindabad

@Someone

Thanks for correcting me. May Allah forgive me. ” “Deen Main Koi Jabar nahinâ€? is in Quran and not in Hadith. It means one cannot make someone Muslim by force”. I mentioned the same translation but my wording is changed. See below

I mentioned ““Deen Main Koi Jabar nahinâ€?. The people translated it differently. I heard from a Maulana that for entering Islam, there is no jabar or you cannot force but when you enter islam, it imposes on your life.”

I also want shariyat and Quran laws in my country. The best jihad is “Zalim aur Jabir Hukmaran kay samnay Kalma-e-Haq Kehna”. Thats what Shaheed Abdul Rasheed Ghazi said.
May ALLAH give us courage to speak truth in front of our leaders and stand unitedly for the Laws of Quran and Shariyat. Ameen.

Thanks again for Correcting.

What I know is this, that Pakistan is ally in war on terror with Bush, Pakistan let americans invade Afghanistan… and half of pakistani nation was happy, by saving their own life from western terror, but they willingly gave up their soil , their dignity, sovereignty, their Iman and everything else.
Now this is just the consequence of Pakistan’s own action… you see all the four provinces are filled with blood of muslims, weather you like it or not, it will spread.
bush once said, either you are with us OR against us. Local taliban are thinking in the same way now… they see Pakistan as a captured nation by Pakistan Army and mafia, they see pakistan army as a supporter of kufr. Pakistan Army killed 83 innocent children in baajore madarsa last year, pakistan army killed ghazi and hundreds of innocent girls and boys.
Now you are calling molvis barbaric…
naaaaaaaa, you must be jocking!!
These molvis kept law and order their. These molvies are the local ppl who safe guarded the hundreds of miles borders for you.
Dont act like a je r k.
Ask the govt to stop the voilence. And TALK!!
Pakistani awaam hosh main aa’o

Religion and state should be two different things.

If we believe in equality, then we should allow European countries to treat us in the same manner we want to treat Non Muslims (i.e. they should take Jaziya from us).

World has moved on. Religion should be our concern, we should impose Islam on our lives. No need to impose it on others.

Secularism would free us from Musharraf’s God (America) as well. No one will cut our throats in the name of God.

@ Faisal

Did I get you right? Were you saying that Mr Ghazi (I refuse to call him Maulana) was doing “jihad”? Was it Jihad to take hostage so many children? What kind of jihad was that? Before you take me wrong and label me as a secular person, let me make it clear to you that I am a firm believer in perfection of Quran and Quranic law. I am also a firm believer that implementation of Islamic law is the only solution to a peaceful life. BUT where I differ from Mr Ghazi, this recent gentleman in Swat and their likes is the approach. We love to choose some parts of Quran that suit us and ignore some others.

I am sick to death about hearing “implementation of sharia”, “revival of khilafat” etc. Have you ever heard the proverb “jaisi rooh waisey farishtey”? We, as a nation, as Muslims, are so ignorant of the basics of our religion. How many of us even know what is written in the Quran, to start with? Reading Arabic is one thing but do we actually know what does it all mean. I can safely say that about 70% per cent of people do not know the content. And we claim to be Muslims! If such is the state then how can we expect someone to implement sharia on us? Is it like magic that it can be done by movement of a wand and everyone will become a perfect Muslim after that? Moreover, what these Ghazi like people are doing is totally wrong. Creating chaos. What sharia tells them to behead the soldiers like they are doing?

We have to start within ourselves, our families and then our society in general. When this state has reached THEN we can expect a change in our leadership and “kalma-e-haq buland ker saktey hein”. If I were to compare the present state of Muslims to any era, it is akin to Meccan days in the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him). He struggled for 13 years with patience, conviction to bring about spiritual awakening and even then when things were not favorable, migrated to Medina. The war or qital came much much later when Muslims had perfected themselves in matters of religion and were becoming leaders in the world. Only then were they asked to go out and fight against these forces. Look at ourselves, look at our personal religious state and we think we can implement our half baked knowledge of Islam danday key zor pey on anyone we please? No, my friend, this is not right and will never work.

Having said that, Musharraf and his cronies are the most disgusting thing that ever happened to Pakistan. They have the knack of bringing out the worst in people. This is not the way to handle these issues. Force can never work. I look at it more as a war of culture rather than religion because religiously neither musharraf regime is right not these so called saviours of religion. The need is to understand these people culturally, in background of their traditions and deal with them accordingly by truce, negotiation, talk. Moreover, empower them, give them facilities, give them education, give them exposure and then if they ask about sharia, it would be a credible demand.

The biggest problem is that we have The best book about human beings, we read it daily, And we don’t know understand it.
Thats the root-cause gives an easy path to brain-wash.
The root-cause of all evils, Yes I mean it.

I think Lal Masjid incident was start of Revolution. Revolution has started and inshallah in few years it will spread all over Pakistan.(Allah Akbar)

1. Musharraf’s Policy of helping America has resulted in this chaos. Now we are unsafe not only on the Indian side but also the Afghanistan side. As external agencies like RAW, MOSAD etc are very active.

2. Its a good a move by all political parties of the region to collect together to resolve this problem. My Allah give them success.

3. Although I don’t like the democratic system very much, but doesn’t democracy mean to allow the majority people to have a system of their will? Be it Shariah or Anti Shariah? Why wasn’t the MMA government allowed to implement HASBA Bill which was tabled by the party who had the majority votes in NWFP? Now these killers are demanding the same Shariah which MMA was advertising to be bringing through HASBA Bill. I think the root cause of this problem is alienation of the people in power from the will of the people

Mush is tottaly fail to controll pakistan.
He shout Resign.
thanks

One more thing. Faisal commented that Musharraf is spreading “fahashi and uryaani”. I agree that he has a very perverted image of “enlightened moderation” which he likes to propagate. But, my friend, is to avoid fahashi and uryaani the ONLY Islamic requirement? There are a lot more things too. Why are we just so sensitive about this one? What about our economic system based on usury, what about our complete negation of huqooq-ul-ibaad, what about system of zakat? And by allegedly stopping this fahashi and uryaani in this way, do you think everyone will become pious and momin suddenly? Again, you fail to see the point. These things are not good but we need to bring change within people first to bring change in society in these things. Because they concern individuals more than the society. Remember how alcohol was banned in Islam? Slowly, in steps. First it was declared as having less good and more bad. Then it was prohibited in salat and then it was completely banned. People were made to think slowly and first a change was brought in them. No change is a change unless it is from the heart. Danda can only work when everyone thinks alike and there is only a minority who need to be keep in check. In our state only danda can do nothing without spiritual awakening.

Western countries invent things after decades of research and we shamelessly say ‘We knew this 1400 years ago. It is proven by Quran’ At the same time we beg for technology from the west and they don’t like us. Who likes beggars anyway?

If we have everything in our book, then why don’t we invent it ourselves? Answer: A Mullah can never invent anything. He can use western technology to make a video of cutting throats of people.

Just a question to all of us.
Whats the percentage of people who understand english & who understand Arabic?
Even our educated class don’t know Arabic but reserve the full authority over Quran. Its time that we should focus on our own short-commings instead of blaming others(our very own culture)
Understand what you read daily & most importantly on which you believe. So we have to ask ourselves & our near & dear ones atleast to think about what you say daily five times a day.

@Aneeza. To Further your point. Shariah Law must be implemented but it must first be worked out, how it is to be implemented. Frankly speaking authentic Islamic Scholars only can tell us what is Shariah and how far we can go without breaking Shariah. They cannot tell us how it is to be implemented. e.g. work on Islamic Banking was done by Islamic Scholars with the help of prominent bankers of Pakistan. Also some Islamic Scholars took special accounting classes after their Madressah committment was over. I feel that we can make everything Shariah compliant e.g. there can Islamic way of advertising, Islamic way of Media, Islamic way of marketing, Islamic way of Justice etc. But each domain expert must work on as to how they can implement the Islamic system. It cannot be done in a day or two but would require multi pronged strategy like proper propogration and convincing of people through tableegh, fool proof implementation and dedication etc. If we implement Shariah half heartedly then it might fail and hence Islam would become a laughing stock in the world. That is probably the reason why Allah has not willed the implementation of Shariah uptil now.

@Nabeel. Sorry to hear your comments. Mullahs are not supposed to work on technology. Their sole responsibility is to learn and teach Islam and to keep Islam in its original state. The beauty of Islam is that things on which progress depends e.g. Science, Technology, Weaponary, Modern Education etc., Islam has not defined any limitations or Boundaries. So that mankind can delve into it as deep as they want. But for things on which the fabric of society depends, Islam has defined strict laws and regulations. e.g. Alcohol, Rights of Spouses, Roles of Men and Women, Usury etc.

@Aneeza

[Comment]I agree that he has a very perverted image of “enlightened moderation� which he likes to propagate. But, my friend, is to avoid fahashi and uryaani the ONLY Islamic requirement? There are a lot more things too.[/comment]

There is a mafhoom of a hadith.
“Aimen Haya say hay, aur hya aiman say hay” May Allah forgive me if I am wrong. (I forgot weather hya comes first in hadith or Aiman) So if you lose haya , then it is also possible that you loose Aimen which is the root of a man. What our Aimen is ?
Beleive in ALLAH, prophets , day of judgement and etc. So we are ignoring the main thing. The English are better researchers of hadith and they know how to dittract muslims. The on e aspect of Namaz is “It stops man from wrong doings” but think whether our prayers are also powerful. I took myself example not yours. May be you are too good than me. ALLAH knows. Kash Kay Ham nay apna deen seekha hota. About Abdul Rasheed Ghazi, I can search you articles and news where the girls and boys mentioned they stayed there with their own will. If you give me address, I will post you “Ummay Hassan (The wife of Maulana Abul Aziz) Book, Ham par kya guzri”. I think if you live in Islamabad, you can find in LalMasjid or I will post you if you wanted. I recommend everyone to read this book.

May ALLAH give us courage to speak truth in front of our leaders and stand unitedly for the Laws of Quran and Shariyat. Ameen.

whew it is really strange that people here are also talking about the very same thing that i mentioned about earlier. everybody is consistently ranting about america. the US did this and that. but in order to highlight the matter i would beg to ask a very simple question. okay america was cruel and barbaric but the question remains what did we do for ourselves. its been 60 years and look at us and look at the rest of the world, forget india as well. these sheikh rashids and ahmad raza kasoori’s arent born in a day. it is the system which has gone hypocritical and malified, where we today as pakistanis are facing a moral collapse of the society and because of that the whole system is collapsing. it is this very system which gives rise to people like them. and it really is a pity that today as a society we cannot leave religion out of anything. so why is islam being blamed? the answer is that when a society starts to overtly portray religion in its everyday dealings where it solders itself into the politics then people generally good or bad use it as a moral justification by twisting and turning it around. religion is a way or code of conduct in life it is a good thing, which is meant for an individual alone. when you pray to god you dont announce what you want from him during the dua do you? its between you and your god. so please keep it that way. you are a good muslim by your good intention and strong will. not by the overtness of your expression. and lastly before becoming a good muslim atleast first become a better human being.

@ Amaduddin

Totally agreed on the implementation part. And that is why, to the best of my understanding, I believe Islam sees Muslims as leaders and not as maulvis alone. For being a leader you have to be on top of everything, management sciences, physical sciences along with religion. And this is why the Mr Ghazis of the world are quite ill suited to fight the battle of Islam today. This is the very concept of Iqbal: mujahid vs mullah - mujahid being the leader, the implementer, the interpreter of religion and the mullah being only the follower without a vision.

@Faisal

Have you ever thought about purpose of man’s existence? I have often and I have reached the conclusion that a Muslim’s duty is bringing out the best of Islam in front of the world. That is what our salaat is for, that is what our saum is for, that is why we take the love of money out of ourselves by zakaat etc etc. These ibadaat are all trainings. Do you think Mr Ghazi and his team were bringing out the best of Islam to people? Even if I think those girls and boys were there ” with their own will”, don’t you think it was his duty to make them leave? What kind of individuals was he making them into? People who were not even equipped with knowledge to support themselves materially in the world, people with no ability to support themselves let alone lead the world and bring out the best of Islam to the world. Allah only knows about the niyyat of Mr Ghazi and his buddies but apparently unhon ney bohat ziadti ki and showed lack of vision.

Coming back to fahashi and uryaani. The supposed brothels that this danda brigade was invading, what proof did they have against them? Do you know how strict a condition there is in Islam for accusing someone of this type of thing? Do you know about punishment of Kazaf? What proof did these people have? Moreover, what right did these people have? Where is the authority? In this way nothing can work in any system if everyone starts forming a system of their own - state within the state. Agreed that our laws are not perfect, agreed that we need to improve our laws and their implementation but we should strive for strenghtening and implementation of present system rather than making a system of our own. Moreover, as long as someone is not being blatantly promiscuous whatever he or she is doing in their personal lives at home, we have no right to take action against. Of course, if we know such a person personally we can advise him or her, but we cannot take the law in our own hands. Islam puts a lot of emphasis on not probing into personal lives of people.

I don’t think that Musharraf has spread vulgarity in Pakistan. He certainly has given a lot of freedom to press and media. Now when we talk about media it not only covers TV and FM radios but also the sale of CDs and DVDs. I agree with the fact that since Musharraf has taken power, pornographic CDs and DVDs sale has went up. A huge number of mujra DVDs have be made over past few years. But do we blame Musharraf for that? The system works with supply and demand. These videos were made because there was a demand for it.
As long as the implication of Islamic laws is concerned, historically not only Pakistan but this all region has never Islamic laws enforced. Even though Pakistan was made to be Islamic state but it took up the British style of government. Now if you want the implication of Islamic laws it will happen over night. It will take time because it can not be done bu guns, bullets and bombs. If you use violence, you can threat and get the people to follow Islam, but not respect Islam. We don’t just want the mosques full with people, we want the people to follow Islam with the depth of their hearts and this is something that can not be done by violence.
Blaming everything to Musharraf is also not fair because he is just hungry for his power. He wants to be the center of power but he is still surrounded by other politicians. Isn’t it their fault also. Isn’t it our people’s fault also who follows extremists and let them do what ever they want?
Killing few innocent people in a market does not convince me to implement Islamic laws. It forces me to do a military operation against them.

@Aneeza

A few things about Maulana Ghazi which you might have missed and hence based your opinion. Maulana Ghazi was not an Aalim/Scholar as he didn’t take the formal Madressah education. Although his family was a family of Islamic Scholoars, he got enrolled in college and then University. He married a girl, of his own will, who was out of his family and a bit different from his fully religious family background. His parents advised him to consider the difference and the difficulty that the girl might face in adjusting, but he was steadfast. His father was shot dead in front of his eyes and he went ‘through the proper channel’ of registering FIR and trying to find out the murderer. He followed up and an arrest was made. But the police later released the individual since he had links with some agency. After this incident he became a full time Maulvi and started learning and teaching in the Madressah with his brother Maulana Aziz who was a more regular and prominent Aalim. He didn’t stop anyone from leaving the Madressah at the time of operation against him. And as per his last agreement with the government he had agreed to handover the mosque and madressah to Wafaq Ul Madaris, so that government do not plant more weapons in order to open a case against them. On TV government showed rocket launchers in the mosque, if they were there, why were they not used? As per Asma Jehangir, first the government said they were foreigners as a reason to justify the operation, but afterwards they did not release the name of even one foreigner!

About the women they picked. The neighbours of these women first went to lodge a FIR which the police didn’t agree to lodge, since these women had ‘contacts’. Then they came to Lal Masjid and asked for help. The number of these neighbours was more than 4. Also they didn’t perform any Islamic Punishment on these women rather they picked them up, did some tableegh and let them go. So I don’t think in a case like this citing ‘Kazaf’ is pertinent.

I don’t think that people like him can ever respect a system such as ours where the rich and powerful are protected by the law and the poor and weak have no protection. People whose families are being bombed in North Waziristan and now Swat, they will do the same in Islamabad and Rawalpindi, since our courts and our police have failed to provide them justice and our army is only good for attacking Pakistanis.

We do talk about and want proper implementation of Islamic Shariah Law. But while being realistic, do you think in this current system, can Shariah Law ever be implemented in Pakistan? I don’t think so and neither do these people who have taken up arms and want to fight to implement it. A case in point was the government of NWFP who got votes on the basis that they would bring Shariah Law. But all the moves made by the representatives of the people were shunned down.

@Amad Uddin

You said my words about Shaheed Rasheed Ghazi. I will try to scan the book (”Hum par kya guzri”) by Ummay Hassan and post it there. See also article by Hammid Mir Baghee Kee Maut. 50 years has been gone and what democracy has given to poor or needy people and us. Its my personal opinion if you imposed rules on Pakistani people, then it is effective otherwise yahan to haal hee bigra huwa hay. e.g. In Islalambad you cannot drive a motorcycle without helmet and if you do , Rs. 200 Kee Pakhee and Traffic man never consider whether you are the son of Minister or other . The reason why because they had learned these principles. In fact we havn’t learned our religion and we think we can changed the world with our own thinking. And ALLAH knows better.

@ Amad Uddin

I agree with you that the government’s story is not the whole story behind this incident. It smells of foul play and controversy. However, remember where did it all start from? The students took control by force of a Children’s Library. Well I am not a resident of Islamabad and lived there just for a year till a few months ago but my husband is a born and bred Islamabadi. he has very vivid memories of this library and the Lal Mosque and other mosques, how good this library was and how they used to benefit from it, how slowly the mosques expanded etc. Also, for the mosques that were taken over by CDA. They were built on land that did not belong to them. Now if it were any other city I would have believed that there were no mosques but Islamabad is the only planned city in Pakistan and very well planned. Each sector has a mosque. So what was this getting hold of land?

I personally think this Lal masjid incident was a drama staged by the government to divert the attention of people from other issues (remember CJ case was very hot), also a tactic of Musharraf to appear the only saviour of Pakistan against “extremist forces” and these people were used (directly or indirectly) by the government. Why I feel angry with them is for their stubbornness and their total disregard of any responsibility for so many children which they claimed they will die for (and then were escaping in burqa). They being religious scholars should have known better than to act in this irresponsible way.

As for implementation of Sharia do you think this way will implement Sharia? You are sadly mistaken. A change is an evolution, never a revolution. A revolution always creates haves and have nots. When Islam came it came as an evolution. It changed people from inside. Koi dandey key zor per shariat implement nahin ker sakta. Besides, tell me will angels come to implement shariat? Hum hi mein sey log ayen gey na. When we are in this state where will good leaders come from to implement shariat. My point: focus on understanding religion personally and in groups starting with your families. Stick together as Muslims. If someone is going without parda, for example, and is not fitting your definition of perfect Islam, ignore it for the moment. Try to stick together, Hold on to the common things. Let the system run. Let it be democracy for the moment. I assure you if we focus on ourselves, our families, our relatives, we will slowly succeed in creating a spiritual awakening. And THEN when we have a system running we can change it to shariat as most of us would be believers in shariat by then. I feel the process has already started by the way. I see in my generation more people attracted to Islam than in my parents. The need is to stick together, avoid violence and progress.

@ Faisal

I am in Europe for past 6-7 months. I have a season pass for trains and trams. In these 6-7 months not once has that pass ever been checked. People believe in rules and don’t have to follow danday key zor pey. In Pakistan I was working for a multinational oil and gas company with its offices in 12 countries. A gora from head office came for the comparison of all the businesses and declared Paksitan to be the best operation of the company. And the reason he gave literally shocked me to death. He said you guys follow rules. My point: people follow rules when they have trust, when they understand the rules, when they are given empowerment, when their stomachs are full and their minds can think about higher things like ideals in life. Danday key zor pey kisi bhooki nangi kaum ko follow karwaya tou kya karwaya. Islam is not only about zahir, it is also about baatin. Where I differ from people of your mindset is that although I also believe in implementation of Islam but I believe in changing hearts first before imposing laws because when you have changed hearts those changed people will themselves demand change of rules. I believe in total improvement of people in education , in economics, in exposure.

@ Faisal
could you please email me the book by Umm-e-Hassan. i would really appreciate it please. send it tomy address alsor8765@yahoo.co.uk

I will try to scan and upload it INSHALLAH on Monday i.e 05-11-2007.