Invitation to participate in the peaceful demonstration against the grave violations of Human Rights in Pakistan.
3rd Nov 2007 has been written a black day in the history of Pakistan. On this day a military dictator in Pakistan suspended the constitution, suspended citizen’s basic human rights, arrested the judges of higher courts and blocked all TV private news channels.
Thousands of lawyers, students, political and human rights activists have been badly beaten up by the police and locked up because they raised their voice against this dictatorial act. This crackdown is still going on unabated.
To protest against this the Pakistani community in Germany is organizing a protest in Berlin. Details are below.
People from all across Germany are attending this protest. Representatives of various local and foreign media organizations will be present as well.
We would request you to join hands with us in raising voice against these violations.
• We are eager to have some of your members join us in the protest.
• Please post a protest message on your website against this draconian act.
We feel that it is the responsibility of all law-abiding men and women, regardless of nationality, to join hands against such draconian steps. We must join hands together to tell the dictator that we cannot sit back and see him deprive 160 million people of their basic human rights.
Berlin, Germany
Demonstration Schedule:
Date: 1st December 2007
Time: 13:45
Meeting Place: Bebelplatz 10117 Berlin (Unter den Linden 6, 10117)
Bus 100, (Haltestelle Staatsoper)
Route: Bebelplatz, Unter den Linden, Brandenburger Tor
Reichstag (German Parliament) Platz der Republik.
Your participation will give sufficient strength to our voice against the grave violations of Human Rights.
Dear All!
I request you to post the ceremony of mush retiring as army cheaf. I have read that it will be shown live on PTV. It would be interesting to see mush’s body language when he does so.
I just can’t sleep. I just can’t believe this. I hope things will start to better after tomorrow and Gen. Kiy
ani does exactly what mush did with NS.
@imran
it was just a test. I was trying since months to comment here but always my comments waited like hours before they were appeared here. today i wrote to admin and he said it should work properly now. so i just sent this comment to test.
ik you make proud to be pakistani as for the rest of them read article below about shabaz sharif, to say i am disappointed with his statement is an understatement.
same old problems, mush will be gone but the army will still be there meddling in politics,
so i for one am not optimistic, but if we get the judges back and media is free that for me is bigger step towards democracy then mush getting rid of his uniform.
completely agree with aftab.
what an U-turn. no difference between BB and sharifs.
i remember the capital talk on foothpath where javed hashmi said that taking part in these election means you are accepting the PCO otherwise you are not member of parliament.
shame on Mians. This shows that this is another deal. Guys this mush is Putin. I am afraid no matter if he leaves the uniform, he will still be dominating the power ministries.
@Mazhar Abbas
Is it confirmed PTV will show live the ceremony. I can not sleep tonight either. This is the single greatest achievment of pakistani people. I just want to guess from his body language if he is going to Turkey or not. This morning they were showing him taking guard of honor and once I felt he is very depressed. Well he should not be smiling in any case. Should he?
Guys I was also mistaken by the picture on aftab’s link.
but I still feel sharif brothers are not 100% anti-mush. but they had no other choice. I hope they need some time before they can really go hard on mush.
on shahbaz@pmlq’s statement about imran khan.
imran khan is a man of principles and no matter what pmlq says, public are no more fool. an example is:
everyone knows that Talat Hussain and Kamran Khan both critised the Govt. but every knows the difference between the two. Kamran Khan is No. 2
Exactly thats thats the difference between other politicians and IK.
Before just chanting slogans, do try to read the news, try to find the facts and then comment.Cant we expect even this from educated people?
This statement is by Shahbaz Hussain (one of the bastards of Q league) who is brother of another bastard judge, ch iftikhar hussain chief justice of Laohre high court.
What else you need to belive NS after his statements, his seechs, his press conferences and his actions (by going to judges, laweyrs and meida persons) that he is standing fir, rather leading the nation as per their desire and will. He did ot for asingle time said that he is there to ebcome PM (although he is sitll the most popular leader).
Lets be rational, base our comments on FACTS and also lets be optimistic and jon hands to get the dictator and his direct and indirect ( Fazlu n BB etc) supporters out of the game.
Dear GM!
I partly agree with you and I did mention that I was mistaken.
But as you said lets be rational and base our comments on facts.
Didn’t you see that sharif brothers have already submitted their applications for these elections. Does it not mean they are accepting that these elections are legal? Does this not mean that they are practically accepting PCO?
Thats where the difference comes. IK does what he says and sharif brothers actions contradiict their sayings.
I can tell you they are going to take part in elections no matter under which constitution.
Mush has firmly said that justices before 3 Nov are history, then whats the point to take part in elections?
brothers i do apologise for link before it was an honest mistake, i urge all of us to support ns at the moment as gm said they have taken stance at moment lets see how it plays out, my apologies again for confusion.
Sir, I request you to wait for just another 40 hours…..we will come to know who is pro mush and who is not….. then we all will bash these two faces politicians.
My instinct says that the politicians will give Mush a big surprise. BB is pushing him to remove uniform by saying that she won’t boycott. Imran is playing a very positive role: he is not a big threat for Mush but he is a popular and moral pressure on politicians.
I think Major parties will not fight elections if judiciary is not restored. BB will also support this decision unless there is a severe pressure from the US. Even US knows that Pak civil society is not the same as it used to be!
We must remain hopeful. Only devil is pessimist (Iblees means permanently disappointed).
Kami,
I am not very positive that PPP will boycott elections. In fact, I am not too sure about PML-N either. The leadership of these parties do not want judiciary to be restored because it may create hurdles for them in the future.
I also believe that the leadership of these parties also do not want the media to be free as it was pre Nov 3rd because media has been asking tough questions and bringing facts to common masses that were not known before.
Another “Nazriyya-e-Zaroorat” is a few inches away.
And this time it would be politicians decisions whether they revive “Nazriyya-e-Zaroorat” or say it goodbye once for all.
Guys, don’t feel sad. I think we are over looking the pressure from civil society, lawyers, journalists, politicians like Imran Khan, human rights activists, NGOs and intellectuals.
If political parties decide to go ahead without independent judiciary (even if they would like to have Dogar style judges), they will be as condemned as the present government. Democratic governments cannot face that much pressure. Even Mush would have collapsed long time ago if he didn’t have ‘Wardi’ on.
17 Senior Retired Servicemen Draft a Charge-Sheet for Musharraf’s Court Martial
========================================================
On the eve of his retirement, Musharraf has received a parting gift from 17 senior retired servicemen that includes admirals, air chief and generals including General Ali Kulli Khan. Ali Kulli Khan was the one in line to be the next chief when NS promoted Mush over him and others.
Coming back to the “parting gift”, it is really a letter that forms the basis for a court-martial of Musharraf. Amongst other statements the former servicemen have stated that Musharraf’s acts have brought the army into “disrepute”.
Peja,
I am sure Mush is having last minute jitters. Tell me if I am reading too much into the letter above. The letter from the 17 senior reputed and respected servicemen is nothing but a charge-sheet for Musharraf’s court martial. http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\11\28\story_28-11-2007_pg7_48
In my humble opinion ‘Boycott or no-Boycott’ decision must be taken by all parties unanimously. There are pros and cons of both cases. In 1985 in a similar but worst siuation MRD decided to boycott and in the end it helped Zia and jamaat Islami politically.
Idealy I agree that Boycott of election in PCO+ Puppet Judiciary & EC is not good.
In politics and war time we need to trick our enemy or enemy will kill you. Mush is dealing with politicians like a war game. He can only be defeated by similar tricks. BB so far is playing great and her tactics made Mush retreat several steps including Sharif’s return. I hope in the end there will a united stand by BB+NS+ Regional paries. MMA parties will always help Army. They are Fauji Jasoos who damage democratic movement in disguise.
The good sign is that BB & NS are discussing their plans on daily basis. Situation is very fluid. If Mush shed his skin tomorrow it will be a great victory and credit goes to BB.
Please read following news item from The News. It raised my hopes of joint strategy.
Opposition moves closer to joint meeting with Benazir:
I would like to add few points in my preious humble analysis.
1. The role of lawyers, Human Rights activists, educated class, and journalists is great and unprecedented. All credit of resistence to Mush goes to them. The role of smaller parties and leaders like IK deserve our two thumbs up. They must keep pressure on Army and natioanl parties.
2. The role of Mullas and their dirty alliance is exposed more than ever before. There is a need to be carefuil from these hypocrites (Qazi and Fazloo).
3. In 1985 some smaller parties in MRD pushed for election boycott. Later it was exposed that these parties were working for Zia and ISI to herd larger parties towards boycott. There is a need to be careful this time.
@saqibtahir
i have a question ,if you r saying that taking part in the election under pco,with no supremecourt ,with all the judges under arrest is wise ,if accepting busharraf as president is wise…when every body can see that bycott by both NS AND BB will be curtains for mush …then im sorry my friend …you are truly truly blindfolded in PPPP’s love and i feel pity on you…is it your ego problem or some thing else but its stuborn fans like you who let there leaders go free without any accountablity
tell me one thing what will make you to talk against bb…is there any thing that wil make you talk against her …plz let me know…bc i think even if she committs mass murder you will find lame excuses to defend it …
\u dissappionted me bro… you suffer from anti mullah and pro bb syndrome…this acute prejudice has ruined ur judgment skill
I think at this time as Supporting Benazir is not wise same thing supporting NS too. As he ruled Pakistan twice and due to his not that wise decisions Pakistan never able to achieve any thing significant. No one worked on human development no one had any interest in promoting basic education actual I will give more credit to Dictator for that. NS was tried he has no agenda he is always interested in promoting his own business instead on PAakistan development and of course BB is Proven Corrupt.
@ *** for those who has started blind (more than justified) criticism on JI, Mullas etc inspite of the fact that IMRAN Khan himself responded to the incident very correctly (as I was expecting out of his wisdom) —
One person that has benefited a lot from this crisis is Imran Khan. If opposition boycotts elections, Imran can rightly claim that he led all the opposition parties. If opposition somehow decides to go ahead under present circumstances, IK will emerge as ONLY credible politician. He has International stature so he can collect a lot of money for the honest judges.
In any case, this guy is a winner especially in the longer run.
I think BB & NS will take part in elections. But PML-Q will sweep the polls (the results have already been drafted probably). Mush needs 2/3 majority to legitimize his unconstiutional steps (in his own words) and only PML-Q can give him that. The judges will NOT be restored, obviously. The media will have luke warm freedoms, nothing like pre- nov 3rd….
Now IMHO there is a silver lining to this black cloud. I think , and hope, that the once freed from the judcial duties for good, the judges along with lawyers and other members of the civil society will form a new political force. The political parties would already have been trashed by the public due to participation in the farce elections. The new political movement will unite the civil society and the bad eggs of politics will be thrown in trash can for good. In Iqbals words:
utha kay phaenk do bahar gali mein
nai tehzeeb kay anday hain ganday
call this a fools dream….but I hope it comes true…ameen
what we the people can do is to boycott the elections on our own….what a farce these elections would seem if there are 10% or less votes cast….and more so if the govt claims 40% or more and everyone in the world sees that the real turnout is below 10%….this will make these elections sham…and no one will accept the results …. BB , NS , MMA, etc will fall flat on their faces…..
we can do it people…..say NO to elections…all you have to do is to do nothing …..is that asking too much…get the message out….
IKs clarity on main issues & his persistance to his words will pay in the long run & hes winning the publics hearts because of his decisions are quite close their opinion.
NS asked the people about their opinion & they very clearly replied “Boycott” so NS should be vey careful this time to take any decision, because its 2007(private electronic media) not 1999(PTV fame age)
In the same paper, read Abbas Athar and he will tell you the real reason behind Qazi’s article.
Sadly, I have witnessed IJT’s activities in FC college and PU. Their activities are definitely against Islam. I was quite religious and read most of the books on Islam including most of Maudoodi’s. Jamiat’s activities had nothing to do with Moudoodi or had any philosophy. Its only purpose was to suppress anything that had a different view point or leadership. My friend who was Tahir ul Qadri’s follower had a very tough time during his stay in university.
Jamiat was too dominant and dictatorial in nature. IJT used to regularly boycott classes (on Kashmir issue!!!)and threaten teachers. The whole atmosphere seemed anti education. Even the book festival meant selling books of supporters’ of JI. I had to make a lot of efforts to unlearn all that strange ‘knowledge’ which clips your wings rather than making you Shaheen of Iqbal.
It is true what you said about new media. Even though Mush has WRONGLY tried to take credit for that, he could’ve succeeded if he hadn’t done blunders. He will be remembered as the most oppressive dictator.
I remember PTV having many debates with opposition parties leaders after ’88 elections. A new station named STN emerged. STN was showing CNN till 7pm. It was a great start for free media in pre-satellite era. It was not ideal but it was a start. Al Jazeera started and then during last 6 to 9 years, the whole world saw a great number of private channels emerging.
Even Kabul has 9 free news channels. Bangldesh has many channels and so does Iraq. Musharraf is wrong to take credit for free media. He only hindered the process through his dictatorship.
Most of the countries, including Bangladesh and Afghanistan, have many free channels.Even oppressive Arab regimes have been putting up with channels like Al Jazeera. Only Mush is worse than even Qatari Sheikhs.
Quote:
__________
you suffer from anti mullah and pro bb syndrome
__________
I do blessed to be anti-Mullah.
At this point I am pro-democracy and pro-freedoms. If BB compromise on these two ideals then I will be the first to criticize her.
I used to hate NS that was Pucha Jamoora of dictator Zia. Now I like NS because he talk about democracy and freedoms and I have no reason not to believe him.
Read my comments carefully. I am all for an anti-Mush alliance of democratic forces.
ON COMING FRIDAY AT LIBERTY CHOWK AFTER JUMMA PRAYERS!
PROTEST AGAINST MARTIAL LAW/EMERGENCY BY ALL UNIVERSITIES, COLLEGES, SCHOOLS OF LAHORE SUCH AS LUMS, PU, ALLAMA IQBAL OPEN UNI, KEC, ILM, FAST, ETC.
SPREAD THE MESSAGE TO YOUNG AND OLD TO BE THERE!
Some slogans heard from previous student protests to let you know how the youth feel. These were heard at some student protests:
“yeh sab ka naara hay, pakistan hamara hay”….”girty hui dewar ko aik dhakka aur do”…”musharraf ko jo yaar hay, ghaddar hay”…”we want democracy”…we see a change…pakistan is undergoing a metamorphosis…join this change and be part of a new era of pakistan – This is the age of black and white revolution led by students and lawyers!
Matter of the fact is that in Pakistan history literally repeating itself and now I think people are looking for the Fatima Jinah.
Remember
1969 2007
Ayub Khan == Mush
Iskander Mirza declared martial law on October 7, 1958,
Ayub deposed Mirza on October 27 in a bloodless coup
Yahya Khan == New Chief of staff
Chief General Yahya Khan on 25 March 1969,
Opposition === Opposition
Bhutto === Bhutto
Media = Media
Courts Dismised courts ( Difference)
His action was condoned by the federal judiciary in particular by Justice Munir.
There was movement in There is movement in North West now
East Pakistan
Now at that time Ayuoob had PCO and emergency and now Mush have the same thing. Bhutto was free and had backing of other powers (not so friend to PK)
Islamic orgs and other honest people are either enemy of the state or in jails.
So now I think all the opposition is looking for is Fatima Jinah!!
And by the steps we took then we can see what is going to happen next in Pakistan if nothing will be changed soon.
@Kami
– Dear I always respect your comments and can feel the underlying sincerity.
– I didnt mean to back the role of IJT eventhough as per my experience of UETs, I feel that IJT was much much better than some other parties in those days when I was studying there. Background of IJT and their positive + negative roles are very openly (and i think righty) pointed out by Qazi in the article.
– What I wanted to say that we should not started blaming JI after the incident (as many started abusing them). Eventhough I couldnt sleep that night due to that insulting behavior with Imran (the only hope being a courageous and laudable leader) but I waited to express aggressively till the picture was clear to some extent. After whatever actions taken by JI and response of IK himself, we should again focus on their struggle for more important issues.
– As far as JI role is concerned, I personally feel that its leaders are much more dignified, decent, social and sincere unlike many drinkers, corrupt and indecent people you can find in any other party especially PPP and MQM. Anybody who have ever met leaders from various political parties can feel this obvious difference only by meeting for a while.
– Anyways wish all of us will see our beloved country under sincere leadership — (let see when)
Thanks for the appreciation. I don’t mean to say that other parties were better than IJT. They were all Qabza groups whereas IJT was a different type of group with a label of Islam. That is why it attracts more criticism. If you claim to follow Bush, we don’t expect you to behave nicely but following Jinnah means you need to act in a civilized manner.
I think there should be a non political elected Student Union in every university (like in the UK). Baccha parties of political organisations can only make things worse.
@saqibtahir
Dear you have your right to express yourself and either to back BB,NS,IK,MQM or JI. I think I should not blame you like i did. Its good that one should not be rigid (like Jialaz) and should have strength to accept the truth and to back the truth rather than any specific party or personality. Thanks for mentioning your criteria for judgement (democracy and anti-mush alliance)
It is a defining moment for the people of Pakistan to decide about the Politician of Pakistan.I am saying this because people like Benazir bhutto are consistently changing their statements on daily basis about Elections, Judges restoration, Judiciary, emergency, Having Musharraf as future president and other matters.Now it looks as if she is only interested in POWER either way and that is her priority.Politicians like Molana Fazal ur Rehman have been already exposed at the time of Presidential elections.
Now its time for Nawaz Sharif and Company to make a clear stand which he is clearly stating for the last few years and stand with the Judges, Lawyers, Civil society, Media and Politicians like Imran Khan once and for all otherwise Nation would never forgive his betrayal to the cause of Democracy and rule of Law in the country.Now its up to him whether he wants to be remembered as opportunist or the real Statesman.
@aftab
It also got me first time I read it. Please either remove it or put actual facts on a prominent place.
This can hurt feeling of many ppl counting on NS.
Behaviour of NS and BB in the face of independent electronic media will be very interesting. Let me explain.
My friend from Pakistan called me. He was laughing when he told me that Bush had said that Musharraf had done the most for democracy. I told him Bush was serious and he believed in what he said. I think Musharraf could be ideal of Bush and he can only wish to control press and opposition like Musharraf did. Bush must be saying ‘O Lord! why didn’t you make me as powerful as Musharraf, why do I have to answer everyone’.
All rulers would prefer a mute press. It doesn’t matter what their behaviour would be. Only thing that matters is how strong the civil society is. Civil society in the US produced films like ‘Foreignheit 9/11′ and they were shown in cinemas all over the world. We are on the path of becoming a stronger civil society and we don’t give a monkey what BB & NS would think about OUR free press.
You are right no leader wants to be grilled by the free electronic media espacially our old class of politicians.
But I would love to see BB NS madcow to be grilled in the same way as pre-nov3.
@Asif
If you have been through the article by Qazi Hussain (link given above), after giving a historical orientation, he has clearly mentioned that best solution is to allow student unions.
I don’t consider Qazi as an authority for for recommending anything, because his column shows his how weak he is within JI & IJT circles.
In PU literllay chiriya bhi apr nahi maar sakti baghair IJT ki permission k. To blame intelegence is no more than a lame excuse. I don’t buy it.
Both BB & NS have ruled Pakistan twice and in their time Pakistan never able to achieve in any way significant.Every time they failed. NS had no agenda he is always interested in promoting his own business instead in PAakistan and of course BB is Proven Corrupt leader of the world.
Only Musharraf or you may call him Busharraf the dictator…. has done so many things for betterment for Pakistan then any ruler of Pakistan has ever done in the history
@Asif you don’t buy it even if Imran Khan is saying it is true???. We should look beyond our personal hatred and concentrate on facts. Why are you so adamant in saying that Intelligence is not involved in these activities when every other mess in the country is due to them
Govt claims “No ban on Geo” http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=11422
“Deputy Attorney General Rizwan Siddiqui vehemently stated that there is no written order issued for suspension and the respondents have not imposed any ban or suspension on Geo TV Network.”
Govt Claims “No restrictions on Deposed SC Judges” http://www.dawn.com/2007/11/27/top7.htm
“Caretaker Interior Minister Lt-Gen (retd) Hamid Nawaz said on Monday that the deposed judges, including Justice Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry, were not under detention and they were free to go anywhere in the country.”
Betraying justice for what?
Clearly none of bigger political parties cares a hoot for the deposed and purged judges of superior courts, still under detention, except Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan. PPP and even PML-N leaders have joined the US project to strengthen the hitherto Pakistan army chief’s cause. One directly and other through the Saudi king. The two buddies, Gen. Musharraf and US President George Bush, have shown they prefer the sword to be mightier than law, reason and pen. Most of the others have been overwhelmed or bought.
Yet most Pakistanis acknowledge the PCOed judges and the legal fraternity led by the shining galaxy of Justice Wajihuddin, Munir Malik, Aitzaz Ahsan, Ali Ahmed Kurd and so many famous or work-a-day lawyers as their heroes. These continue blazing a trail for the people to follow. They want respect for all human beings as equal and valuable for whom rule of law is a must. That requires judges and lawyers who value human freedom and who refuse to bow before autocratic rulers unendingly uttering deceptive falsehoods. The Judges led by Justice Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry and all 60 or more judges (who resigned in protest) constitute the true Supreme and High Courts in which legitimacy of law resides. They need to be saluted every day — and their lead followed.
This great betrayal of rule of law and human freedom — the heart of democracy – was spearheaded by the JUI chief and PPP chief, each wired to General Musharraf and the US administration respectively. They will legitimise the Army Chief’s actions of imposing the state of emergency (martial law really). Everyone knows that all the shots will continue to be called by the hitherto COAS behind the make-belief screen of caretakers and elections will be ‘managed’ through the agencies. Aware citizens expect these polls to produce Musharraf-desired results. Hitherto, the PML-N chief had refused any kind of deal with Musharraf and supported the old judiciary’s restoration. One fears that the US may have forced him to climb Musharraf’s bandwagon. He had been firm in demanding the withdrawal of emergency, the PCO and the restoration of the pre-Nov. 3 judiciary. One will wait for a few days before tarring him with the same brush as Benazir to know what exactly transpired at a putative meeting where the American ambassador was also present.
It is too late to remonstrate either with major parties about why they want to participate in an election held under emergency restrictions and in which agencies will do their mischief or to make futile appeals to Gen. Musharraf’s conscience. The former, in fact, had only minor differences with Musharraf and have composed them. The latter is likely to think his grand strategy has succeeded and he is home and dry for the next five years.
And yet Nov. 3′s emergency, PCO and media curbs will deepen all the fault-lines, indeed fissures, in the polity. All those who are participating in such an election are obliging the US and strengthening Musharraf so they can supposedly fight the Taliban and Al Qaeda better. But they should still think about what another five years of an unreformed Musharraf’s rule will do to Pakistan’s body politic.
(cont…)
Betr*ying justice for what?
Clearly none of bigger political parties cares a hoot for the deposed and purged judges of superior courts, still under detention, except Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan. PPP and even PML-N leaders have joined the US project to strengthen the hitherto Pakistan army chief’s cause. One directly and other through the Saudi king. The two buddies, Gen. Musharraf and US President George Bush, have shown they prefer the sword to be mightier than law, reason and pen. Most of the others have been overwhelmed or bought….(cont.)
Asif(Real one):
Your ID’s been stolen…Why are do all these Mush supporters such bl**dy cowards? Sometimes they use my ID to support Mush or speak against IK, sometimes they are from Glasgow/UK/etc. Now it’s Asif’s turn…Proves you guys have nothing to stand on you p&thetic sw*nes…
@observer:
No, Thanks!
(Doubt it is his last speech, anyways, as our so called leaders seem bent upon accepting him as their prez for another five years.)
Please have courage to listen Mush supporter as others are istening/reading your comments. My views are that there are certain Indian & Isrealeis agents sitting behind this web site and churning useless comments against Musharaf. These agents are enemy of our beloved Pakistan. They are creating bad image of our country in the eyes of other countries. These type of people should be ashamed & immediately stop their Jewish lobby agenda.
@Afaq
“Please have courage to listen Mush supporter as others are istening/reading your comments.”
Afaq, or what ever you are. I will listen to them as soon as they have the courage to at least use their own identity … doing otherwise proves you are p&theric c*nts…
HE SAID THAT ELEMENTS LIKE SOME OF YOU HERE ARE LOST SOULS, BACKWARD SOULS, SUPERFICIAL SOULS, SOULS WITH VERY LITTLE KNOWLEDGE, SOULS WHO ARE ZEALOTS, SOULS WHO DO NOT KNOW THE REAL STORY, SOULS WHO DO NOT HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE OF HOW THINGS WORK- YET YOU PEOPLE TALK AND EXPRESS YOUR TRAITOR-LIKE VIEWS.
YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR OWN COUNTRY’S ARMY. YOU TALK LIKE UNDER SOME ENEMY AGENDA, OR YOU DO JUST THIRD-CLASS POLITICS; CHEAP POLITICS.
YOU PEOPLE WANT YOUR ARMY TO COME AND HELP YOU OUT FROM ALL BAD THINGS THAT HAVE STRUCK YOU. YOU WANT YOUR ARMY JAWANS TO COME AND BAIL YOU OUT FROM ALL ACCIDENTS THAT HAVE STRUCK YOU. YOU WANT YOUR ARMY SOLDIERS TO TURN UP WITH THEIR CRANES AND CARS, AND TANKS AND TRAILORS, RIFLES AND REVOLVERS, WITH THEIR TALENT AND EXPERTISE.
IT IS YOUR ARMY THAT COMES AND DOES THE HARD WORK, WHETHER IT IS AN EARTHQUAKE OR IT IS FLOODS, WHETHER IT IS AN ATTACK FROM THE ENEMY OR IT IS THE ATTACK FROM REBELS OR TERRORISTS FROM YOUR COUNTRY.
YOU CRIB, YOU SHOUT, YOU SCREAM, YOU DEMAND- YOU ARE SCARED AND CRYING. AT ALL MOMENTS LIKE THIS, IT IS YOUR ARMY THAT BAILS YOU OUT OF THIS STATE. THE ARMY PLACES YOU BACK ON A PEDESTAL, WHERE YOU AGAIN START LAUGHING.
BUT LIKE TYPICAL UNGRATEFUL HUMAN BEINGS, YOU FORGET THE TIMES WHEN YOU WERE CRYING AND COWERING, TREMBLING AND QUIVERING, SHAKING WITH FEAR. TRUE TO NATURE OF THE SHALLOW-BEINGS, YOU BECOME UNGRATEFUL, AND
FORGET AND START TALKING NONSENSE.
HOW COME YOU UTTER WORDS AGAINST YOUR ARMY, WHICH YOU WANT FOR YOUR HELP?
THERE WILL BE A LOT OF YOU, WHO WILL GIVE YOUR EXPLANATIONS, NOT HERE, BUT WILL THINK IT OUT IN YOUR HEADS, BUT NO EXPLANATION OR DEFENCE TO WHAT I HAVE SAID, WILL SUFFICE. IT WILL NOT MAKE ANY SENSE.
IT WILL BE JUST AS BAD AS IMRAN KHAN’S VERBAL DIARRHEA.
IMRAN KHAN NEEDS ANTI-ANXIETY DRUGS; BESIDES, A LOT OF PEOPLE INCLUDING HIM NEED TO ATTEND SOME CLASSES IN NATIONAL DEFENCE COLLEGE.
PAKISTAN SHOULD START CLASSES TO EDUCATE THOSE WHO ARE INTERESTED IN THE NATIONAL AFFAIRS, BUT BECAUSE OF THEIR HALF-BAKED KNOWLEDGE ARE HURTING THE NATIONAL INTERESTS.
WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE?
THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT, TO MUSHARRAF COMES, ‘PAKISTAN FIRST’. TO MANY WITH VERBAL DIARRHEAS, ‘PAKISTAN COMES WAY DOWN THE LIST’.
I missed the last speech of mad general , but seems he was of rhetoric.
I WANT TO CONGRATULATE WHOLE NATION FOR THEIR SUCCESSFUL STRUGGLE TO THROW A MAD GENERAL OUT OF ARMY.
This is the biggest achievment, but our struggle is going on and our next milestone will be restoration of judiciary and constitution.
Kat tay bhee chaloo , barhtay bhee chaloo
bazoo bhee buhat hain, sar bhee buhat
chal tay bhee chaloo kay ab deray
manzil hee per dalay jain gay
I am happy to see a new General in command.
I wish he will reverse military’s policy of “Musharaf’s ethnic war” against its own ppl.
Pakistan has to respect Pashtoon culture, their desire for Shariah and their anti-west sentiments.
I think that it is Mush-bashers on this website who are strongly concealing their ID then pro-Mush commentators. And yes, you have to develop your level of tolerance to a higher degree to listen to alternative opinions as this remains the basic building block of any democracy whether in a country or on a website.
Otherwise there is absolutely no difference between the likes of you and worst dictators the world over!
@Afaq:
Don’t know about” certain Indian & Isrealeis agents sitting behind this web site churning useless comments against Musharaf” but I do know this:
An Unlkely Visitor Gives Support to Musharraf
With the blessing of Washington, Jack Rosen, chairman of the American Jewish Congress’s Council for World Jewry, traveled halfway across the globe for a face-to-face meeting with Musharraf, who he had hailed two years ago as a courageous leader and driving force in Jewish-Muslim dialogue.
Pakistan’s President To Meet With American Jewish Leaders
In 2003, just before traveling to the United States to meet with President Bush, Musharraf broke new ground when he suggested that Pakistan might need to rethink its refusal to establish diplomatic relations with Israel.
The Pak-Israel Scene – A critical view by Pakistan’s ex-Ambassador
The rapid moves that Islamabad has been making indicate that Pakistan would soon become the 5th Muslim country to recognize Israel, the other four being Turkey, Egypt, Jordan and Mauritania while Morocco and Qatar only have limited trade ties. And the credit for it would not go to any elected civilian leader but to an absolute military dictator.
Jack Rosen Introducing President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan
President Musharraf recently praised Prime Minister Sharon as “courageous� for unilaterally disengaging from Gaza. For its part, Israel has agreed to loosen trade restrictions for imports of Pakistani products. On Wednesday, President Musharraf shook hands with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon – something that would have been impossible even a year ago.
A diplomatic surprise
Voices of disapproval emanate from the Muslim world as Pakistan makes high-level contact with Israel
Musharaf Is Poodle
“I am happy to see a Punjabi General in command.
I wish he will reverse military’s policy of “Musharaf’s ethnic war� against Pashtoons.
Pakistan has to respect Pashtoon culture, their desire for Shariah and their anti-west sentiments.
From now on
No war between Pashtoons and Punjabis, which was definitely started by a Muhajir liberal terrorist”
——————————————
YOU SHOULD CALL YOUSELF “ETHNIC TERRORIST OF PAKISTAN instead of”Musharaf Is Poodle”
——————————————
I agree with you that there are certain Indian,Isrealeis and CIA agents sitting behind this website and writting useless comments against President Musharaf. These agents are enemy of our beloved Pakistan.
They talk about Pakistan and war between Pashtoons ,Punjabis, Muhajir, sindhi and Blochi and Kashmeri etc.
These are the real terrorist and enemy of Pakistan…..careful of them.
What is the status of Musharraf today?
Is he the Preseident as per 17th amendment or the last ruling of the supreme court that he would remain president until he takes oath for the next regime?
Nothing wrong being a Muhajir,punjabi, sindhi and Blochi and Kashmeri.
I wish I could have born in a Mohajir family. But it seem to me that… for sure you must have born in a HUNDU family.
I think from here starts the big exam for NS. Whether he entangles himself into the trap of removal of emergency or is still interested in the pre November 3 judiciary and other things. The more time he takes to decide, the more credibility he loses.
Nawaz’s return is the part of the game planed by US to make BB the next PM. Now it will divide the anti-PPP vote bank and BB could have a better chance to win. AS per Nawaz he is not that innocent to just sit back and let all this happen, he must have some reassurance that BB will kick out Musharraf and Nawaz will be PM after BB’s tenure. They had decided this back at when Charter of Democracy was signed that BB will get the first turn than Nawaz. I guess we are back in the 90s with same old black sheeps.
Imran was in hurry
He did not trust Nawaz and Qazi
I think APDM should take part in elections in changed political environment, as it has become clear that emergency would be lifted soon, by an ever weakening Musharaf.
Imran has done damage to the real opposition by his hasty remarks, uninvited arrivals as student leader and his rigid understanding of Anti-Musharaf agenda of Right Wing.
Imran can easily become a liability, instead becoming an asset in up-coming elections, which is unfortunate.
BUT STILL WE LOVE IMRAN
some upcoming facts of life in Pakistan whether to the liking of anti-Mush commentators here.
1. Mush is going to be the President of Pakistan for the next 5 years.
2. He will have full support of the Army, USA and the west.
3. In next elections a coalition government will be formed with PML (Q) in lead followed by PPP and JI.
4. BB, NS or IK will never be the PM of Pakistan
5. The next PM of Pakistan is most likely Humayun Akhtar of PML (Q)
6. The OBL and Taliban phenomena will be visibly reduced in Pakistan.
7. This website will continue to churn out hate-filled comments by singular group of repetitive anti-everything, bad-mouth commentators with very low tolerance levels for others opinions.
Musharraf would have started thinking about his end now. It’s never safe to be president without uniform. He would have to prove like GIK, the one I remember and who remained for quite sometime. Others had been too much in the past before Zia.
People of Pakistan should continue their struggle for free pakistan… free of all the vices.
Politicians, if allwoed, will learn a lot during their government in the presence of media. Media is not going to go away with the liberty it has gained and lost. They will get it one way or the other. Politicians have to be more sensible. Otherwise they should have people like Sher Afgan, Wasi Zafar, and AG so that people don’t take their comments serious enough to criticize the government. Just sit back and laugh at them.
Musharaf Is Poodle,
You seems to be an MQM bhai. You did exactly what they do. It has been pointed out many times by Kami that MQM munafiqs are the one who says that Oh I like Imran but Blah Blah Blah..
Buddy you are one of those.
Khan & LionHeart
You guys support Musharraf. I would like to know your comments on the video posted on this website about the missing people. That video is cited by Amnesty International.
@LionHeart
I wonder what attraction does this site has for the critics of this site that they can’t refrain themselves from coming over here. Well Done @dmin. You are keeping this site good to attract people from all parties, all thoughts, and all sectors.
For me, PMl(Q) has no future. It could be any party who could form the government but not PML(Q). They will find two candidates for each seat. One who was nominated last time and could not be awarded because of lost reputation, and the other new nomination. Both will try to convince that they are more loyal to army (not to people), so agencies should try for their success. and this is very dangerous. this can divide the agencies .
Its not about hasty judgments. Its about principles. In the comment above, you have trashed Imran Khan and put at the end “WE STILL LOVE IMRAN” what is this?
@
Javed
Honestly when I saw the missing people video…it make me cry not one time but many many times…..I considered missing people cases is one of the biggest crime done by Musharraf government and they should be held responsable for it.
Yes
But
Comment on Comments not on Commentator
And
By the way why do you think that Imran is your Private Property.
Yes I Believe That
IMRAN IS SOME TIMES WRONG
Humayun Akhtar is the son of the ex-ISI general Akhtar Abdul Rehman who in Zia’s time was the chief architect of the Afghan War against Russians. He was the Commerce Minister in the last Government. Last time, Shaukat Aziz & Humayun Akhtar were in competition for PM post. This time Humayun will be be the PM.
@Javed
the posed video is no doubt produced very well. Emotionally heavy with police heavy handedness very well projected. But then again if a person goes missing in the USA by virtue of his involvement in any terrorist activity, similar scene are witnessed on media and on the street! So even the greatest democracy in the world is also involved in the same act! lest we forget Guantanamo and other CIA dungeons have been created by the democratic US Government whose agents can now pick even you up at a moments notice and not a single western enlightened governments will complaint! Even the western judiciary has its hands-off on Guantanamo! So if I am living on Pluto, maybe this video will be effective, but living on earth, its unfortunately a fact of life.
@javed
This is not my blog , it is pklatest.com which is part of pkpolitics.com and pkunited.com , an initiative of concerned pakistanis who wants rule of law , liberty , and freedom in our beloved country Pakistan.
I think we should not spread ethenic talk in Pak. We all are Pakistani, not sunni, baloch, punjabi, muhajir etc. This is not good for Pak. If we started to think like this then our enemy take quite good benefits out of it easily, becasue in this way we’ll not be able to recognize our true friend or enemy. Please. thanks.
@LionHeart
It is so disgusting to learn that it was just a fact of life for you. And you don’t have emotions. I wish we could feel them especially happening in our country and somehow could condemn them. This is just a phrase from a person who lives in a kachi abaadi and discusses with his yaar’s that police did that. Not from a learned person who is able to express himself in the form of comments. Oh that is what is meant by LionHeart.
@Fahad
Our true enemies are across the border, for whom we have an army getting all the budgets each year to spend. Do you think for suppressing just a part of the province, which has no air force, just some infantry sort of force, we need to spend this much of budget. Whatever is happening in the frontiers is just because of lack of seriousness or intelligence on the part of the army? I can really sense something fishy. Have you ever known they could seal the afghan border? From where they suspect arms are being imported. What other way they could do that? This is just lack of professional skill or I would say Lack of Integrity.
Agree with Tanweer Amjad.
This is all because Musharraf was busy in his politics along with ISI and Gen. Kiyani.
I have been reading comments that Gen. Kiyani will kick Musharraf and what not. It doesn’t seem to be happening as Gen. Kiyani is known for his loyalty to Musharraf. Gen Kiyani was present in the early meetings of Musharraf/BB deal and was present in the meeting in which Musharraf decided to impose emergency. I don’t have a lot of expectations from Gen. Kiyani.
I am very upset with the editorials of daily Jang (Urdu). They shamelessly toe the government line. How to write/call them and ask them to show some impartiality?
Also, I had great respect for columnist Irshad Ahmed Haqqani due to his support for democratic institutions. But during this whole crisis his role was dubious. He had tough time keeping his writings inline with the ever-changing BB’s stand. I really really want to talk to him and tell him that how much I am disappointed with him today. Does any one has his contact?
How about few thousands of us (especially those who are not in Pakistan and thus cannot vote) start influencing through our emails and telephone calls?
For example, how about we get the telephone numbers for the following and tell them (in positive or negative tones) what we want from them or how we are feeling about them.
Admin can we compile these numbers and post these on this website?
Judges, Media persons:
- CJ Iftikhar
- Wajihuddin
- Hamid Mir
- Talat Hussain
- Shahid Masoud
- Kashif Abbasi
Religious/spiritual figures:
- Mufti Taqi Usmani
- Dr. Israr Ahmed
- Tahir ul Qadri
- Javed Ahmed Ghamdi
- Sajid Naqvi
- Professor Sajid Mir
… any other personality of your choice
(Any telephone numbers for Wafaqul Madarass, and major madarassaas and ask them why they are out for cartoon issue, disrespect of Quran, ‘women right bill’, ‘shariat bill’, but not out now for missing people, suspension of human rights, suspension of constitution, sacking of supreme court judges etc).
Columnist:
- Irshad Ahmed Haqqani
- Javed Choudhary
- Ayaz Mir
- Nazeer Naji
- Irfan Siddique
- Mahmoud Shaam
- Khurshid Nadeem
- Atta ul Haq Qasmi
- Masoud Ashr
Editors of newspapers:
- Jang
- Nawai-e-waqt
- Khabrain
- The News
- Dawn
- Daily Times
- Express
You have the right to base your decisions on emotions.
I have the right to base my decisions without emotions.
You may not like Musharraf for your reasons.
I like Musharraf for my reasons.
does that make your type angles and my type devils or vice versa? I have the right to disagree with you completely and I will fight to protect that right!
maybe I do live in a kaachi abadi somewhere in Pakistan? so what?
whose right and whose wrong depends on who you talk to in or outside Pakistan. your disgust comes form your own personal insecurity and shortfalls and not for any other rhyme or reason.
Musharraf regime has been imposing his authority on the people feeling all of them as ignorant kachi abadi people. Whereas the literate people lost interest to discuss anything with him. Musharraf thinks these kachi abadi people don’t know what they actually should have. they don’t need to improve their lives. He will ust improve the economy and doesn’t care whether they reach the kachi abadi people or not.
I didn’t t
Musharraf regime has been imposing his authority on the people feeling all of them as ignorant kachi abadi people. Whereas the literate people lost interest to discuss anything with him. Musharraf thinks these kachi abadi people don’t know what they actually should have. They don’t need to improve their lives. He will just improve the economy and doesn’t care whether they reach the kachi abadi people or not.
I didn’t have the intention of taunting the kachi abadi people. But I feel they are deprived of basic human rights and this is how they say about pakistani police and establishment. As a literate and learned person, one shouldn’t just say that this happens in the world. One should categorically condemn whatever wrong happens.
Tanweer Amjad, I want to make it clear that I am not Chauhdry’s spokesman. If you asked me as a Gujrat native than I will say that Chuhdries know that their party will win in Gujrat no matter what so they might have decided to go for other constituent and put some weak candidate in Gujrat and get him to Parliament. Usually Chauhdries use violence to shut down the polling booths where the opponent gets the more vote then them. This time I was told by mu friends that they have done a lot in Gujrat but I am not sure as I haven’t visit Gujrat from last 4 years.
I am very upset with the editorials of daily Jang (Urdu). They shamelessly toe the government line. How to write/call them and ask them to show some impartiality?
Also, I had great respect for columnist Irshad Ahmed Haqqani due to his support for democratic institutions. But during this whole crisis his role was dubious. He had tough time keeping his writings inline with the ever-changing BB’s stand. I really really want to talk to him and tell him that how much I am disappointed with him today. Does any one has his contact?
How about few thousands of us (especially those who are not in Pakistan and thus cannot vote) start influencing through our emails and telephone calls?
For example, how about we get the telephone numbers for the following and tell them (in positive or negative tones) what we want from them or how we are feeling about them.
Admin can we compile these numbers and post these on this website?
(I will post the list in next comments, it is not letting me go in one shot)
Raza
@Javed
Thanks because it was somewhat surprising for me. i suppose his relative nominated from Gujrat would also be some nazim as well, how could leave that post for someone else, just as Sheikh Rashid gave it to his nephew. He has also done a lot in Rawalpindi I suppose, but he would still not leave this seat. would be finding Kurd against him this time. Hello pindites, don’t legitimize these elections.
One thing bothers me!
Lawyers said that Musharraf’s presidential election from expired assemblies are unconstitutional but they also nominated Justice Wajih-u-Din. Now they say that elections under PCO are illegal and Kurd has filed nomination papers. Its either they are playing double game or I am not smart enough to understand it!!!!!
Justice Wajih was nominated due to his juristic skills to challenge Musharraf’s nomination in uniform as a candidate which he did and was following the case until November 3. He had no intentions to win, since he was urging opposition for resigns and dissolution of the assembly.
We all know kurd, he will just give a teaser to Sheikh Rasheed, and in any case he would boycot the elections, I suppose, since his supporters already want a boycot.
@javed
So for the presidential election it was very clear. In order to file a petition under article 184(3) of the constitution , you must be an aggreived party to request relief from Supreme Court. So if Justice Wajih had not filed the nomination papers to contest against the president , lawyer could not have gone to supreme court for any relief. By filing the nomination papers , Justice Wajih became aggreived party and filed the petition in Supreme court saying that his opponent ex-General(now) Prevez Musharraf can not legally/constituionally a candidate for president.
For the current nominations in election, I am really not aware of the actual stance of lawyers, however it is quite possible that ex-General may leave before the elections and constitution restored , so then they might be contesting the election constitutionally.
I would agree with Tanveer Amjad , Kurd’s paper might just be a teaser to sheeda tilli… Also please note that GHQ is in this constituency and Kurd as a valid candidate he would be delivering his fire-brand speeches in the heart of army.
Peja and Tanweer.
I want to know your opinion that if Nawaz knows that his return will help BB to win, what is his benefit in all this situation. How does helping BB will restore democracy as she said herself that she is here for power sharing with Musharraf.
@Javed
I spent 10 years in Islamabad, and visited the galleries in parliament, supreme court and islamabad club. My experience tells me that arrival of Nawaz Sharif is not good for Musharraf. I am sure some “BIG CHANGE” is going to happen in the next 4-6 weeks. So NS is here to become part of that big change.
So honestly I am not taking these election seriously.
But I may be wrong in my assessment.
NS would be dangerous for Musharraf if and only if he decides boycot of elections. People are of the opinion that Q-league would be destroyed to its actual form before 2002 elections. the division of PML helped PPP get the seats in most constituencies in elections 2002 as well. PML(Q) will be dependent on PPP to form government in Punjab and also major part in NA. PPP has never formed government in punjab. 5-years of loyality of PML(Q) and pro-Musharraf attitude of BB will move the agencies strong enough in their favour. In any case NS has to boycot elections for his good if he wants to show his sincerity to his workers and people.
Peja
How would you define BIG CHANGE. Is this throwing Musharraf out? If yes, than where we will go from there? Move forward WITH Nawaz and BB or go back to 11 October 1999?
This woman Benazir is going to spoil everything. I wonder why is she so mad to not see that she will get nothing in this. She would be the opposition at the most and Pervez Ilahi the PM (imagine…..). So forgetting principles and rules, even in her own interest contesting elections is stupid. And once PPP decides to contest, PML-N will be pressed hard to join in too. And there goes the efforts of all the people down the drain. I hate her for being a show spoiler. Literally the civil society prepared a revolution and put in in the laps of these politicians and still they cannot carry it forward but are wasting everyone’s sacrifices. Don’t they even think about people like Munir Malik and Justice Tariq, the lawyers whose careers are suffering, the human rights activits. Its all futile!
@Aneeza
This is all what is expected from BB for ‘retoration of democracy’. I don’t think she ever consulted her party for that. But they all might have the same say, since it has been pretty long for her leaders out of government. the fight would be great between the two, remember the words of Pervez Elahi in the recent speeches against Benazir. And anybody could imagine BB accepting Pervez elahi as President and forming the government with him. she has to be in the opposition. And if she is in opposition, her workers won’t be happy at all, adn there starts the Long March.
Well “BIG CHANGE” in context of Pakistan usually means a total u-turn of the situation. These changes have occured in 1988 (After Gen Zia , BB became Prime Minister), and in 1999 (Army takes the full control back from politicians).
So a “big change” is in the offing. It may take 4-6 weeks, there are certain chapters still open , the biggest one is SWAT and the other one is Balochistan. They will be closed pretty soon and then the change will be there.
Of course I can not say what the real change would be in it details, but in its essence this will be a complete u-turn.
Again I may be wrong.
@LionHeart
you can never compare USA with Pakistan. Although I am against all their policies but one thing I like about USA is that no matter who is in Govt. they protect their citizens. If you mean same kind of scenes could be seen in USA, the goal behind is totally different than those in Pakistan.
USA does for their nation’s interests and Pakistani Regime does this in their personal interests and for the interests of USA.
Please don’t forget the privileges one enjoys when he is a US citizen. One US citizen’s life is more important than 1 million Pakistanis.
But I do respect your opinion and you can think what you like, you may have different feelings if some near one of you gets this kind of treatment.
1- Army has decided not to play on front foot. But certainly they will not stop playing.
2- With certain mutual understanding of all stakeholders, judiciary will be resolved/restored as current judicial system can not run for long time.
3- Elections will be contested and new political structure will be in shape.
4- Globalization is one word that will force new political set up to continue with certain old policies. However, transparency might provide legitimation this time.
5- US-Army relationship will continue and instead of war driven policy, we will see peace negotiation in Afghanistan related issues bringing ‘calmness’ in disputed areas.
6- Middle east peace and oil business play an important role and the global players are dominant and behind all this new set up.
7- Musharraf will quit as president and disappear from scene swiftly to avoid another battle between institutions.
Yaqeen nahin aata that wardi utar gaye hai i still cant believe it that the sick general has removed his uniform……. but the story continues one b**tard goes another comes….
So now we have a general who has never fought a real war! this is blessing because such a general will never attempt to fight even with their own people. thanks god we are nuclear power – the real deterant. Peace and economical development and educated Pakistan ahead
you must know in high traffic turns, u-turn is not allowed unless you travel too far to a place where u-turn is allowed. I think in last 8 years we have traveled too far and reached to that place where its allowed to take u-turn. traffic laws applied
For all those who think that change is in the offering:
Thiose who think that a change is imminent from military to civil rule are mistaken and are also underestimating the power and influence that the Army has over the politicians, judiciary, professors, lawyers etc. It is true that the movement by the lawyers is still going on but underhand this is being slowly eroded. Judges will not be re-instated, common man will never get the rights till a civil war erupts and some leader emerges. this is an unlikely phenomenon. I do not think the change is in the offering or will ever be in Pakistan. It is unfortunate but it is true.
@Aneeza,
In response to one of your previous postings:
—–
This woman Benazir is going to spoil everything….
—–
I was never under the illusion that she was going to do something for the masses or even had the capability for doing that. She was, is and will always be an opportunist because that is what she believes in and it is very difficult, if not impossible, to change someones nature. It is kinda like asking of Fazlu not to lick army’s boots or a snake not to bite or a chameleon not to change colors because it ain’t going to happen.
And what is NS doing? I am sure that he was told by the King that he would not initiate any mass protests and that is exactly what he is doing today. I am not very optimistic about the outcome unless a miracle happens and they have happened in the past, like Zia’s demise.
PML-N’s excuse has so far been that it has not able to bring in people on the streets because its leadership had been kept outside of the country. Now the leadership is there, so what has changed? nothing?
I do agree with both of you. I have a feeling that all the efforts by lawyers,media and judges will go in vain. Only the characters are going to be changed. The writer is the same, USA. USA saw that there is violation against mush, so she is replacing mush. All our so-called learders are selfish. What do you expect from Sharif brothers and BB? they have been out of business (politics is a business for them) for over 7 years. A lot of loss of revnue. So if anyone of these two BB or NS comes in to power again they will try to make up for the loss in last 7 or 8 years.
There really has to be some miracle of revolution if we want change.
found this on teethmetro:
My friend just saw a man in his underwear running frantically from the army house towards the Presidency followed by a brigade of SSG Commandos
Do not get excited! GIK had no uniform still fixed the politicians well and proper with Generals at his back. Busharraf has all the might of Army at his back. He will continue his unconstitutional rule unhindered with the help of Chaudarys, Khasi (almaroof Wasi Zafar), Sheikhs etc.
Silence shows that our political pundits except IK are smelling $$$$$$$.
Their decision making is very very poor, But no problem the current crisis has clearly gave us as an option 2nd line of leadership within big-parties, Aitzaz Ahsan & Javed Hashmi.
NS is doing family politics, as I have heard him on few channels saying, He won’t have any problem if SS would become PM, promoting his brother instead of asking his party for the alteranative. BB by herself is inssiting for 3rd term.
So not for people but hungry for flagged cars.
But no-problem we have now alteranatives for our representation.
What a shame this skinless general is ….. advising army to coup again in future. He was so nervous the was trying to open the stick before passing it to Kiyani. What a jerk. At the end of the clip he was saluting at people but nobody was looking at him.
Due to personal grudges at highest level Pakistan suffered a lot. So there would be Max duration of holding an office, political or institutional.
Only in this way we can have new leadership on continuous basis.
Everyone to see the Youtube posted by her. It simply proves that we are a coloney of the Pak Army. They are allowed to treat us as they please, when they please and how they usually (that is with the toe of their boots up our….)
As per my prediction, all the corrupt pilitical pundit will take oth under PCO and unconstitutional president. I pray for PK Army not to let anymore corrupt political leader to loot this country and I pray for Ashfaq Kayani that Allah keep him at the borders.
Its upto the people, if leaders are corrupt it just shows our reflection, so I dont worry now because we have now free media(check) that was not there in thier previous tenures
The real democracy will prevail in Pakistan when PPP would have non-bhutto party leader & PMLN would have non-mian party leader. That would be the begining of a new era.
This time its 2000plus not their honey old days 1900. Its one thing that no one can stop now(free media), why?
Because now we cannot accept anything less than that, as we have already tasted it for quite some time.
Its new Pakistan where they have landed not their previous Jagheer.
I am seeing good days ahead only nothing else.
@Asif
You just saw he glimps of good days when they through old people from Model Town house belong to NS and they (to my knowledge) did not give them proper shelter or protection. We are bloody civilains in front of Army eyes and little insects in the eyes of Jageerdar, feudals etc. You want to see how NS and BB etc will treat us then just wait for few months. Its the time for the people outside the parliment has to loot this country and Army will take a break.
Dekh da janda reh Jumaray Dekh da jana reh
@Hina
You want to see how NS and BB etc will treat us then just wait for few months
—————————————————–
This time its the other way round, civil society(with a new spirit just because of lawyers & IKs bold steps), lawyers & media will give some kina treatment to these guys.
Thatswhat is something new(check).
BB & NS are still dreaming & living in old days, they would collapse if they don’t changed their policies.
Guardian: Musharraf bows out to the strains of Auld Lang Syne
…”Musharraf hasn’t taken off his uniform under his own will, rather under pressure from the powers who installed him and kept him in power eight long years,” Sharif’s spokesman Pervez Rasheed said in an apparent reference to the United States.
“Now the era of his unconstitutional and illegitimate acts will come to an end as the forces (who backed him) apparently withdrew their support.”
But Sharif has softened his threat to boycott crucial elections, saying Musharraf’s conversion to a civilian president will make “a lot of difference” and that he would only boycott the vote if all opposition parties agreed….
We can see good days only if sacrifices are offered from all the stakeholders. So far, only the civil society has been at the forefront of this struggle. The politicians are missing from this exercise and even though those who have admitted openly, Javed Hashmi et al, have not taken any practical steps to show that they actually mean what they believe in.
@Asif
If NS and BB had to go along with media and civil society from the bottom of their heart then they would have done it so far and would have boycott the election but they knew that they will get their share in the Govt with the help of west or by hook or crrok so they dont want to give THAT free hand to media and civil society to avoid future clash with them. We know how these power hungry people work in our country. They would have done like IK. Did they? They did not just because they knew that they will contest under PCO etc.
If BB&NS participate in election, rigging would bring MMA+PMLQ in a position to grab PMs slot, an un-educated guess.
And the it will be to late for BB&NS to say that elections are rigged.
@asif
In complete agreement with you. We have taken giant steps in last 9 months. That is how history is made and written. When historian will write the period of March 2007 and onward , one thing that will be highlighted is civil society awakening. It will not be Ashfaq Kiyani taking over from Mad ex-General , but civil society making a sitting general and his corps commanders to bow before their wishes.
@Asif
That is what I am saying. If NS and BB come to your door and ask for vote the reject them and reject all those who already have been tested unless there are new faces.
Can we do that? NO we wont and we will again elect these bad guys.
I am an optimistic person, always looks positive aspects of an event. And personaly I feel everyone wanna live a peaceful life if hes offered the good environment. So eventually we have started our journey & thats the important thing that we achieved.
We will have to give confidence to voter that its upto them, everything would be as per their wishes not what Traika thinks.
@asif,
Only way a nation digs grave is by being ruled by a military dictator, a dictator is epitome of corruption. A political leader in any type of democracy can never harm any nation. In fact democracy is the only filter which filter the corrupt leader to less corrupt and then no corrupt.
A military dictator is inherently corrupt and will allways increase his corruption with the pessage of time.
But unfortunately you won’t understand that. It needs to be a human and political animal to understand the benifits of democracy , liberty and freedom. It is hard for animals in jungle to understand why a dove or a pegion should rule the jungle when a lion is there. (No pun intended).
@pejamistri
But unfortunately you won’t understand that. It needs to be a human and political animal to understand the benifits of democracy , liberty and freedom. It is hard for animals in jungle to understand why a dove or a pegion should rule the jungle when a lion is there. (No pun intended).
—————————————————————-
Its how you discuss the things & persuade the people, seemz to be brown-saab, if I am not wrong.
@admin
I dont know how many members Pk politics are have lets make a deal from now on
1:All efforts to progress Pakistan
2: we dont belong to any party we only belong to Pakistan
3: We want complete restoration of Judiciary.
4: We will be against all those who are corrupt and who looted Pakistan in the past. there is no second chance and those should not be forgiven.
5: If BB or Ns come clean thats great but they have to prove their innocence.
6: IK or Aitzaz or Javed anyone who ever prove that he is loyal to Pakistan and has intellect to serve as a leader we will support him.
7: Musharaf need to go.
8: Media need to be totally independent.
Admin can make us a force that can make some impact in the future.
@asif
There is no pun in this. Human beings have been living in jungle for a long time. Humans did not cover the distance from humans to political animal by birth. It took centuries to become a political animal. And if you understand there are human who would still think how is it possible that the corrupt leader can be choosen by the people when a person with might is already there.
I hope I clarified it.
@admin
Just wanted to say that normally we had been adding news of one day under link of the previous day, since the link could not have been added to that, so it is always good to add the link of the news for the next day before you end your day . For instance we had been commenting yesterday (Nov 27) under link of News on Nov 26, since the there was no link of Nov 26. but last night I found the link for the two days (Nov 27 and Nov 28). Most of the comments of Nov 27 have been made under News on 26. Sorry for being too unclear.
It will take some time (decades) for the corrupts to be eliminated provided that the military does not intrude, the media is free and the judiciary is free. Otherwise, the only light that that I see at the end of the tunnel is from an incoming train.
Finally we found something missing on the site for pro-Musharraf people otherwise there hasn’t been anything in Pakistan for them. Now they have got something, they need it to be exhibited.
So what do they expect… vidoes like those of arrivals of BB and NS, some interviews with the PML(Q) politicians and reaction of the public.
@dmin
give the devil the due.
@amir hameed,
My thinking on corruption is that , a human being with power will always to tend to be corrupt (i.e. power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely) . Even in mature democracies you will find that leaders are usually corrupt that is why we here about the financial scams. However in a democracy , it is the rule of law and independent judiciary that stops the corruption of the leaders. So a leader can not just dismiss the whole supreme court just because it was looking into his corruption (both financial & ethical).
@dmin
I agree with Tanveer , in fact I wanted to hear his last speech as well , and analyse his body language and tone, it should be worth watching. I heard he was almost at verge of crying. And as usual he spoke several meaningless sentences.
Pejamistri,
I agree with you but if you look around then you will see that almost all politicians and government officials are corrupt. Who will allow the free judiciary to return? This is the biggest blow that Mush has done to this nation, that is, the dismissal of the judiciary and he should be hanged for this act.
@amir,
Yes this is ex-General’s biggest crime against people of Pakistan.
But I am optimistic that the judges will be back. We can not afford such a great loss. I will be extermely disappointed if that does not happen.
And frankly I don’t care what BB , NS or Fazlu say about the return of judiciary, I am more concerned about the general public/civil society. Will they accept this below?
Musharraf looked very depressed when he was giving farewell speech – he was rambling and I am sure he would realise that he has also lost in this game – in fact every one in his goverment has lost except Gen Kiyani who got COAS job.
1. Musharraf lost his army job plus his presidentship is controversial and is now based only on threats but has no legal or moral standing
2. Judges lost their job – and I dont think that would be restored at least in immediate future unless something happens to Musharraf
3. Shaukat Aziz lost his job forever and would never become PM again
4. Shujaat and Pervez Elahi also lost their jobs and inshallah would never return to power again now that NS is back
6. MMA lost because they have been fully exposed – FAzlu through is dubious dealings and Qazi through how they dealt with Imran Khan
7. Imran Khan has gained tremendously and took a very very wise decision of not participating in teh polls because they are going to be rigged in anway
9. People of Pakistan lost becuase they have lost an independent judiciary and free media of which we got so much used to – but Inshallah we would get back one day
10 What we gained – we saw true colours of Musharraf, BB, Falzu, Qazi and PML Q
11 Sharifuddin Pirzada finally got someone to step in his shoes in form of AG Qayyum
pejamistri,
The thing with civil society’s struggle is that it will only succeed if the level of intensity (of their struggle) increases otherwise it will slowly go away. We all need to make sure that the struggle goes on long enough to finally bring about the change. People should stop looking at the politicians to act as catalysts and look at the leadership from the civil society. If the CJP is freed then he will start leading the struggle but I am not sure if the SOB Mush will allow that for the same reason.
@Chussain
I don’t see any difference between AG Qayyum and Sharifuddin Pirzada, except the latter has a far far greater shameful experience. But both will keep on playing their roles in parallel along with Ahmad Raza Kasuri and Abdul Hafeez Pirzada.
@amir hameed
That is what I am banking my hope on. I am praying CJ and some other judges are freed , along with Ali Ahmed Kurd, Aitzaz Ahsan and Justice Tariq Mahmood, and then hopefully media is back. The movement will pick up then.
I am optimistic that:
1. mad ex-General can not keep CJ and judges under house arrest for long.
2. He will have to release the lawyers.
3. He can not keep the media gagged for long.
And this long will not be more than a month i.e. by mid of december. I can not believe he can keep the current status quo till January 8 specially after he has uniform.
@pejamistri
No one should support BB, NS or any politician. People should stand by someone whom they can trust to enpower the constitution in the country (rule of law), would put serious effort to restore judiciary, and make all politicians think whether they truly deserve to be in government or not. Do you think simply workers can make their leader win the elections. It’s the people who participate actively in all rallies.
I think tomorrow, NS, MMA and other parties will give their verdict for participating in elections or otherwise. If people agree with their verdict, they should support them, otherwise they should continue their struggle in an independent manner.
Question.
Does anybody from Pakistan tell which channels are now available in Pakistan? and what they are showing. Are they showing the programs like bolta pakistan, live with talat, kashif abbasi, ayaz amir etc..
thanks in advance.
Only GEO’s are not on. I don’t know which shows AryOne is showing as I don’t watch it since they fired Dr. Shahid Masood some time back. Aaj is of course not showing Talat and Bolta Pakistan. Not sure about Ayaz Amir’s show.
can one someone please throw some light on situation of our hero justice (r) tariq mehmood
because i have not heard anything about this noble person in media. thnx
@aftab:
“can one someone please throw some light on situation of our hero justice (r) tariq mehmood”
There was a story in yesterday’s Dawn: Justice Tariq Mehmood complains of maltreatment
Justice Tariq Mehmood complains of maltreatment
ISLAMABAD, Nov 26: With former Supreme Court Bar Association president Munir A. Malik already seriously ill, another former SCBA president Justice (retd) Tariq Mehmood has complained of kidney infection….
Well what i think that Nawaz sharif had played well uptill now, and submission of his papers is a good decision, but about Imran khan, I think he’s still politically immature, if he submitted his papers atleast PTI would secure good score, because common man trusts him, but if after these elections, Nawaz get better position and after getting power he’d release the Judiciary and media, Imran had to suffer alot, because nations memory is short and thse two things are biggest needs of people,
BB says she is in no hurry to accept mush as civilian presidents…..her mind games is giving MUSH jitters every day…
I HATE her but its true that she has all the aces at her hands and has kept every body involved guessing….mush is at her disposal and BB has certainly made him a permanent dirreah patient by now….
There is deadlock situation in Pakistan. I have an Idea to present to avoid head off confrontation.
1. President Musharraf has retired from his army position. So we should accept him as a president.
2. President Musharraf should end the emergency.
3. President should roll back PCO
4. Activate the 73 – Constitution.
5. President bring back all the judges back in supreme court. And Accept Chief Justice Iftikhar Ch. as Chief justice of Pakistan.
6. This new Supreme court provide protection to president.
7. Now president should call a meeting off all parties.
8. Supreme Court should suggest a care taker government.
9. Election commission should hold election under the direct supervision of supreme court .
10. Full bench of supreme court must sit in the election commission while all the results are being received and announced.
11. Chief election commission present this result to Supreme court. Who endorse it and announce it.
12. New parliament elect their prime minister.
13. This parliament ensure that president Musharraf will be in office for the remaining period of his term.
@aftab
Yesterday BBC reporter went to see him in the services hospital. But the doctors did not allow him to meet Justice Tariq Mahmood. It was told that they are planning to do an MRI scan for him. Also on one of the channel they showed a doctor saying he will be alright.
But all of these news are of yesterday. I did not find or here any news today.
@nayyar sohail,
So for one person to remain as president we go through your 13 points. If you put one point more that will make Quaid-e-Azam 14 points to save Pakistan.
A person who has committed high treason remain president. My foot. Hedeserves a public hanging.
Invitation to participate in the peaceful demonstration against the grave violations of Human Rights in Pakistan.
3rd Nov 2007 has been written a black day in the history of Pakistan. On this day a military dictator in Pakistan suspended the constitution, suspended citizen’s basic human rights, arrested the judges of higher courts and blocked all TV private news channels.
Thousands of lawyers, students, political and human rights activists have been badly beaten up by the police and locked up because they raised their voice against this dictatorial act. This crackdown is still going on unabated.
To protest against this the Pakistani community in Germany is organizing a protest in Berlin. Details are below.
People from all across Germany are attending this protest. Representatives of various local and foreign media organizations will be present as well.
We would request you to join hands with us in raising voice against these violations.
• We are eager to have some of your members join us in the protest.
• Please post a protest message on your website against this draconian act.
We feel that it is the responsibility of all law-abiding men and women, regardless of nationality, to join hands against such draconian steps. We must join hands together to tell the dictator that we cannot sit back and see him deprive 160 million people of their basic human rights.
Berlin, Germany
Demonstration Schedule:
Date: 1st December 2007
Time: 13:45
Meeting Place: Bebelplatz 10117 Berlin (Unter den Linden 6, 10117)
Bus 100, (Haltestelle Staatsoper)
Route: Bebelplatz, Unter den Linden, Brandenburger Tor
Reichstag (German Parliament) Platz der Republik.
Your participation will give sufficient strength to our voice against the grave violations of Human Rights.
Please confirm it, if you would come.
Ilyas Sadiq
(Coordinator)
Berlin, Germany
Phone: +491637971738, Fax: +49 30 36744302, Email: sadiq191@yahoo.de
@admin
.
It would be nice to add the tag for the next day when you call it a day. The comments appear better in the right place. Just an opinion
President of Pakistan Pervez Musharraf Zindabad
Munir A Malik has been through two dialysis geo News), He said while talking to Geo News that he is feeling better then before and is recovering.
Please pray that may God give him a healthy and long life.
@ Mr. khan,
Your Mush is going to Qabaristan
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/avconsole/bb_wm_fs.shtml?redirect=fs.shtml&lang=ur&nbram=1&nbwm=1&bbwm=1&bbram=1&ws_pathtostory=http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/wsindex/int/av/urdu/-/urdu/news/avfile/2007/11/&bbcws=1&ws_storyid=071127_mushinuniform
perhaps he has allowed this email
@MAZHAR ABBAS
WHICH EMAIL …WHAT R U TALKING ABOUT
Pride of Pakistan Imran Khan zindabad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YG1_VeCyWI
Dear All!
I request you to post the ceremony of mush retiring as army cheaf. I have read that it will be shown live on PTV. It would be interesting to see mush’s body language when he does so.
I just can’t sleep. I just can’t believe this. I hope things will start to better after tomorrow and Gen. Kiy
ani does exactly what mush did with NS.
“saqibtahir
good link….. the gu at the end summed it up
‘Pakistan ka matlab kia….Gen Mush to kaho Pakistan to chor ke ja’
@imran
it was just a test. I was trying since months to comment here but always my comments waited like hours before they were appeared here. today i wrote to admin and he said it should work properly now. so i just sent this comment to test.
aoa
ik you make proud to be pakistani as for the rest of them read article below about shabaz sharif, to say i am disappointed with his statement is an understatement.
http://www.aaj.tv/news/news.php?pg=3&show=detail&nid=86866
Aaj is sold to Mush.
Showing Shabaz shareef picture but statement is from Former Federal Minister , Chaudhary Shahbaz PMLQ.
aoa
same old problems, mush will be gone but the army will still be there meddling in politics,
so i for one am not optimistic, but if we get the judges back and media is free that for me is bigger step towards democracy then mush getting rid of his uniform.
completely agree with aftab.
what an U-turn. no difference between BB and sharifs.
i remember the capital talk on foothpath where javed hashmi said that taking part in these election means you are accepting the PCO otherwise you are not member of parliament.
shame on Mians. This shows that this is another deal. Guys this mush is Putin. I am afraid no matter if he leaves the uniform, he will still be dominating the power ministries.
@MAZHAR
I HOPE SO TOO
@Mazhar Abbas
Is it confirmed PTV will show live the ceremony. I can not sleep tonight either. This is the single greatest achievment of pakistani people. I just want to guess from his body language if he is going to Turkey or not. This morning they were showing him taking guard of honor and once I felt he is very depressed. Well he should not be smiling in any case. Should he?
Guys I was also mistaken by the picture on aftab’s link.
but I still feel sharif brothers are not 100% anti-mush. but they had no other choice. I hope they need some time before they can really go hard on mush.
on shahbaz@pmlq’s statement about imran khan.
imran khan is a man of principles and no matter what pmlq says, public are no more fool. an example is:
everyone knows that Talat Hussain and Kamran Khan both critised the Govt. but every knows the difference between the two. Kamran Khan is No. 2
Exactly thats thats the difference between other politicians and IK.
@ Aftab and Mazhar Abbas
Before just chanting slogans, do try to read the news, try to find the facts and then comment.Cant we expect even this from educated people?
This statement is by Shahbaz Hussain (one of the bastards of Q league) who is brother of another bastard judge, ch iftikhar hussain chief justice of Laohre high court.
What else you need to belive NS after his statements, his seechs, his press conferences and his actions (by going to judges, laweyrs and meida persons) that he is standing fir, rather leading the nation as per their desire and will. He did ot for asingle time said that he is there to ebcome PM (although he is sitll the most popular leader).
Lets be rational, base our comments on FACTS and also lets be optimistic and jon hands to get the dictator and his direct and indirect ( Fazlu n BB etc) supporters out of the game.
@pejamistri
well BBC reports so
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2007/11/071127_mush_lastday_sq.shtml
aoa
brothers my apology, you are right.
cont
i did not read properly
(on Police advice the venue has been changed from Downing street to Parliament Square)
DEMONSTRATION Against the Breaches of Human Rights in Pakistan
Restore the Judiciary!
Free the Media!
Release all political prisoners!
Time & Date: Saturday, 1st December at 1pm
Venue: Parliament Square (East footpath)
Organised by: Doctors Against Breaches of Human Rights in Pakistan (supported by Campaign Against Martial Law & Free Pakistan movements)
Tel. 07786394216 & 07817773438
All welcome
Pakistan ks mutlab kiya?
Musharraf ko bool chor key ja.
Dear GM!
I partly agree with you and I did mention that I was mistaken.
But as you said lets be rational and base our comments on facts.
Didn’t you see that sharif brothers have already submitted their applications for these elections. Does it not mean they are accepting that these elections are legal? Does this not mean that they are practically accepting PCO?
Thats where the difference comes. IK does what he says and sharif brothers actions contradiict their sayings.
I can tell you they are going to take part in elections no matter under which constitution.
Mush has firmly said that justices before 3 Nov are history, then whats the point to take part in elections?
aoa
brothers i do apologise for link before it was an honest mistake, i urge all of us to support ns at the moment as gm said they have taken stance at moment lets see how it plays out, my apologies again for confusion.
@mazhar abbas
hope to be awake till that time.
This will be at 5:00 AM my time …
@ Mazhar Abbas
Sir, I request you to wait for just another 40 hours…..we will come to know who is pro mush and who is not….. then we all will bash these two faces politicians.
@Rihat and other!
I wait. We have no other option.
GHQ still deciding how to dismiss the mad general.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=11421
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/nov2007-daily/28-11-2007/cartoon.htm
very funny & irony cartoon
My instinct says that the politicians will give Mush a big surprise. BB is pushing him to remove uniform by saying that she won’t boycott. Imran is playing a very positive role: he is not a big threat for Mush but he is a popular and moral pressure on politicians.
I think Major parties will not fight elections if judiciary is not restored. BB will also support this decision unless there is a severe pressure from the US. Even US knows that Pak civil society is not the same as it used to be!
We must remain hopeful. Only devil is pessimist (Iblees means permanently disappointed).
Kami,
I am not very positive that PPP will boycott elections. In fact, I am not too sure about PML-N either. The leadership of these parties do not want judiciary to be restored because it may create hurdles for them in the future.
I also believe that the leadership of these parties also do not want the media to be free as it was pre Nov 3rd because media has been asking tough questions and bringing facts to common masses that were not known before.
well judged by Amir Hameed
Please visit http://www.BoltaPakistan.com to sign the protest and watch tribute to lawyers, students, judges and civil society.
Help us spread the word.
@Amir Hameed
Another “Nazriyya-e-Zaroorat” is a few inches away.
And this time it would be politicians decisions whether they revive “Nazriyya-e-Zaroorat” or say it goodbye once for all.
with the lifting of emergency will the restriction on media also get lifted automatically?
Guys, don’t feel sad. I think we are over looking the pressure from civil society, lawyers, journalists, politicians like Imran Khan, human rights activists, NGOs and intellectuals.
If political parties decide to go ahead without independent judiciary (even if they would like to have Dogar style judges), they will be as condemned as the present government. Democratic governments cannot face that much pressure. Even Mush would have collapsed long time ago if he didn’t have ‘Wardi’ on.
@Kami
I wish the same. but its not that far away, only couple of days, Everything would be crystal clear.
17 Senior Retired Servicemen Draft a Charge-Sheet for Musharraf’s Court Martial
========================================================
On the eve of his retirement, Musharraf has received a parting gift from 17 senior retired servicemen that includes admirals, air chief and generals including General Ali Kulli Khan. Ali Kulli Khan was the one in line to be the next chief when NS promoted Mush over him and others.
Coming back to the “parting gift”, it is really a letter that forms the basis for a court-martial of Musharraf. Amongst other statements the former servicemen have stated that Musharraf’s acts have brought the army into “disrepute”.
Read the details of the letter here:
http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\11\28\story_28-11-2007_pg7_48
Peja,
I am sure Mush is having last minute jitters. Tell me if I am reading too much into the letter above. The letter from the 17 senior reputed and respected servicemen is nothing but a charge-sheet for Musharraf’s court martial.
http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\11\28\story_28-11-2007_pg7_48
In my humble opinion ‘Boycott or no-Boycott’ decision must be taken by all parties unanimously. There are pros and cons of both cases. In 1985 in a similar but worst siuation MRD decided to boycott and in the end it helped Zia and jamaat Islami politically.
Idealy I agree that Boycott of election in PCO+ Puppet Judiciary & EC is not good.
In politics and war time we need to trick our enemy or enemy will kill you. Mush is dealing with politicians like a war game. He can only be defeated by similar tricks. BB so far is playing great and her tactics made Mush retreat several steps including Sharif’s return. I hope in the end there will a united stand by BB+NS+ Regional paries. MMA parties will always help Army. They are Fauji Jasoos who damage democratic movement in disguise.
The good sign is that BB & NS are discussing their plans on daily basis. Situation is very fluid. If Mush shed his skin tomorrow it will be a great victory and credit goes to BB.
Please read following news item from The News. It raised my hopes of joint strategy.
Opposition moves closer to joint meeting with Benazir:
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=11427
I would like to add few points in my preious humble analysis.
1. The role of lawyers, Human Rights activists, educated class, and journalists is great and unprecedented. All credit of resistence to Mush goes to them. The role of smaller parties and leaders like IK deserve our two thumbs up. They must keep pressure on Army and natioanl parties.
2. The role of Mullas and their dirty alliance is exposed more than ever before. There is a need to be carefuil from these hypocrites (Qazi and Fazloo).
3. In 1985 some smaller parties in MRD pushed for election boycott. Later it was exposed that these parties were working for Zia and ISI to herd larger parties towards boycott. There is a need to be careful this time.
@saqibtahir
i have a question ,if you r saying that taking part in the election under pco,with no supremecourt ,with all the judges under arrest is wise ,if accepting busharraf as president is wise…when every body can see that bycott by both NS AND BB will be curtains for mush …then im sorry my friend …you are truly truly blindfolded in PPPP’s love and i feel pity on you…is it your ego problem or some thing else but its stuborn fans like you who let there leaders go free without any accountablity
tell me one thing what will make you to talk against bb…is there any thing that wil make you talk against her …plz let me know…bc i think even if she committs mass murder you will find lame excuses to defend it …
\u dissappionted me bro… you suffer from anti mullah and pro bb syndrome…this acute prejudice has ruined ur judgment skill
seriously …take a chill pill and go to sleep
I think at this time as Supporting Benazir is not wise same thing supporting NS too. As he ruled Pakistan twice and due to his not that wise decisions Pakistan never able to achieve any thing significant. No one worked on human development no one had any interest in promoting basic education actual I will give more credit to Dictator for that. NS was tried he has no agenda he is always interested in promoting his own business instead on PAakistan development and of course BB is Proven Corrupt.
@imran malik
***************************
your comment about ::
\u dissappionted me bro… you suffer from anti mullah and pro bb syndrome
***************************
(WELL SAID) I ALSO FEEL ALIKE AFTER READING HIS COMMENTS TIME TO TIME
(A MUST READ)
* ARTICLE OF QAZI HUSSAIN ABOUT PU INCIDENT:
——————————————-
http://www.express.com.pk/epaper/index.aspx?Issue=NP_LHE&Page=Editorial_PAGE&Date=20071127&Pageno=12&View=1%20id=
——————————————-
@ *** for those who has started blind (more than justified) criticism on JI, Mullas etc inspite of the fact that IMRAN Khan himself responded to the incident very correctly (as I was expecting out of his wisdom) —
One person that has benefited a lot from this crisis is Imran Khan. If opposition boycotts elections, Imran can rightly claim that he led all the opposition parties. If opposition somehow decides to go ahead under present circumstances, IK will emerge as ONLY credible politician. He has International stature so he can collect a lot of money for the honest judges.
In any case, this guy is a winner especially in the longer run.
I think BB & NS will take part in elections. But PML-Q will sweep the polls (the results have already been drafted probably). Mush needs 2/3 majority to legitimize his unconstiutional steps (in his own words) and only PML-Q can give him that. The judges will NOT be restored, obviously. The media will have luke warm freedoms, nothing like pre- nov 3rd….
Now IMHO there is a silver lining to this black cloud. I think , and hope, that the once freed from the judcial duties for good, the judges along with lawyers and other members of the civil society will form a new political force. The political parties would already have been trashed by the public due to participation in the farce elections. The new political movement will unite the civil society and the bad eggs of politics will be thrown in trash can for good. In Iqbals words:
utha kay phaenk do bahar gali mein
nai tehzeeb kay anday hain ganday
call this a fools dream….but I hope it comes true…ameen
what we the people can do is to boycott the elections on our own….what a farce these elections would seem if there are 10% or less votes cast….and more so if the govt claims 40% or more and everyone in the world sees that the real turnout is below 10%….this will make these elections sham…and no one will accept the results …. BB , NS , MMA, etc will fall flat on their faces…..
we can do it people…..say NO to elections…all you have to do is to do nothing …..is that asking too much…get the message out….
@Kami
IKs clarity on main issues & his persistance to his words will pay in the long run & hes winning the publics hearts because of his decisions are quite close their opinion.
NS asked the people about their opinion & they very clearly replied “Boycott” so NS should be vey careful this time to take any decision, because its 2007(private electronic media) not 1999(PTV fame age)
@ Zia Gondal
In the same paper, read Abbas Athar and he will tell you the real reason behind Qazi’s article.
Sadly, I have witnessed IJT’s activities in FC college and PU. Their activities are definitely against Islam. I was quite religious and read most of the books on Islam including most of Maudoodi’s. Jamiat’s activities had nothing to do with Moudoodi or had any philosophy. Its only purpose was to suppress anything that had a different view point or leadership. My friend who was Tahir ul Qadri’s follower had a very tough time during his stay in university.
Jamiat was too dominant and dictatorial in nature. IJT used to regularly boycott classes (on Kashmir issue!!!)and threaten teachers. The whole atmosphere seemed anti education. Even the book festival meant selling books of supporters’ of JI. I had to make a lot of efforts to unlearn all that strange ‘knowledge’ which clips your wings rather than making you Shaheen of Iqbal.
Love u IK for denting quite hard on MQM&MMA/IJT Kabza Groups.
@ Asif
It is true what you said about new media. Even though Mush has WRONGLY tried to take credit for that, he could’ve succeeded if he hadn’t done blunders. He will be remembered as the most oppressive dictator.
I remember PTV having many debates with opposition parties leaders after ’88 elections. A new station named STN emerged. STN was showing CNN till 7pm. It was a great start for free media in pre-satellite era. It was not ideal but it was a start. Al Jazeera started and then during last 6 to 9 years, the whole world saw a great number of private channels emerging.
Even Kabul has 9 free news channels. Bangldesh has many channels and so does Iraq. Musharraf is wrong to take credit for free media. He only hindered the process through his dictatorship.
Most of the countries, including Bangladesh and Afghanistan, have many free channels.Even oppressive Arab regimes have been putting up with channels like Al Jazeera. Only Mush is worse than even Qatari Sheikhs.
@Imran & Zia:
Quote:
__________
you suffer from anti mullah and pro bb syndrome
__________
I do blessed to be anti-Mullah.
At this point I am pro-democracy and pro-freedoms. If BB compromise on these two ideals then I will be the first to criticize her.
I used to hate NS that was Pucha Jamoora of dictator Zia. Now I like NS because he talk about democracy and freedoms and I have no reason not to believe him.
Read my comments carefully. I am all for an anti-Mush alliance of democratic forces.
@Kami
what do you think about the tolerence level of NS & BB as compared to the madcows aadvisors, while facing private electronic media?
We must not forget Munir Malik. I love this person and his struggle. We must pray for him.
http://www.express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100306444&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20071127
ON COMING FRIDAY AT LIBERTY CHOWK AFTER JUMMA PRAYERS!
PROTEST AGAINST MARTIAL LAW/EMERGENCY BY ALL UNIVERSITIES, COLLEGES, SCHOOLS OF LAHORE SUCH AS LUMS, PU, ALLAMA IQBAL OPEN UNI, KEC, ILM, FAST, ETC.
SPREAD THE MESSAGE TO YOUNG AND OLD TO BE THERE!
Some slogans heard from previous student protests to let you know how the youth feel. These were heard at some student protests:
“yeh sab ka naara hay, pakistan hamara hay”….”girty hui dewar ko aik dhakka aur do”…”musharraf ko jo yaar hay, ghaddar hay”…”we want democracy”…we see a change…pakistan is undergoing a metamorphosis…join this change and be part of a new era of pakistan – This is the age of black and white revolution led by students and lawyers!
Matter of the fact is that in Pakistan history literally repeating itself and now I think people are looking for the Fatima Jinah.
Remember
1969 2007
Ayub Khan == Mush
Iskander Mirza declared martial law on October 7, 1958,
Ayub deposed Mirza on October 27 in a bloodless coup
Yahya Khan == New Chief of staff
Chief General Yahya Khan on 25 March 1969,
Opposition === Opposition
Bhutto === Bhutto
Media = Media
Courts Dismised courts ( Difference)
His action was condoned by the federal judiciary in particular by Justice Munir.
There was movement in There is movement in North West now
East Pakistan
Now at that time Ayuoob had PCO and emergency and now Mush have the same thing. Bhutto was free and had backing of other powers (not so friend to PK)
Islamic orgs and other honest people are either enemy of the state or in jails.
So now I think all the opposition is looking for is Fatima Jinah!!
And by the steps we took then we can see what is going to happen next in Pakistan if nothing will be changed soon.
@Kami
– Dear I always respect your comments and can feel the underlying sincerity.
– I didnt mean to back the role of IJT eventhough as per my experience of UETs, I feel that IJT was much much better than some other parties in those days when I was studying there. Background of IJT and their positive + negative roles are very openly (and i think righty) pointed out by Qazi in the article.
– What I wanted to say that we should not started blaming JI after the incident (as many started abusing them). Eventhough I couldnt sleep that night due to that insulting behavior with Imran (the only hope being a courageous and laudable leader) but I waited to express aggressively till the picture was clear to some extent. After whatever actions taken by JI and response of IK himself, we should again focus on their struggle for more important issues.
– As far as JI role is concerned, I personally feel that its leaders are much more dignified, decent, social and sincere unlike many drinkers, corrupt and indecent people you can find in any other party especially PPP and MQM. Anybody who have ever met leaders from various political parties can feel this obvious difference only by meeting for a while.
– Anyways wish all of us will see our beloved country under sincere leadership — (let see when)
@ Zia Gondal
Thanks for the appreciation. I don’t mean to say that other parties were better than IJT. They were all Qabza groups whereas IJT was a different type of group with a label of Islam. That is why it attracts more criticism. If you claim to follow Bush, we don’t expect you to behave nicely but following Jinnah means you need to act in a civilized manner.
I think there should be a non political elected Student Union in every university (like in the UK). Baccha parties of political organisations can only make things worse.
@saqibtahir
Dear you have your right to express yourself and either to back BB,NS,IK,MQM or JI. I think I should not blame you like i did. Its good that one should not be rigid (like Jialaz) and should have strength to accept the truth and to back the truth rather than any specific party or personality. Thanks for mentioning your criteria for judgement (democracy and anti-mush alliance)
It is a defining moment for the people of Pakistan to decide about the Politician of Pakistan.I am saying this because people like Benazir bhutto are consistently changing their statements on daily basis about Elections, Judges restoration, Judiciary, emergency, Having Musharraf as future president and other matters.Now it looks as if she is only interested in POWER either way and that is her priority.Politicians like Molana Fazal ur Rehman have been already exposed at the time of Presidential elections.
Now its time for Nawaz Sharif and Company to make a clear stand which he is clearly stating for the last few years and stand with the Judges, Lawyers, Civil society, Media and Politicians like Imran Khan once and for all otherwise Nation would never forgive his betrayal to the cause of Democracy and rule of Law in the country.Now its up to him whether he wants to be remembered as opportunist or the real Statesman.
@aftab
It also got me first time I read it. Please either remove it or put actual facts on a prominent place.
This can hurt feeling of many ppl counting on NS.
@ Asif
Behaviour of NS and BB in the face of independent electronic media will be very interesting. Let me explain.
My friend from Pakistan called me. He was laughing when he told me that Bush had said that Musharraf had done the most for democracy. I told him Bush was serious and he believed in what he said. I think Musharraf could be ideal of Bush and he can only wish to control press and opposition like Musharraf did. Bush must be saying ‘O Lord! why didn’t you make me as powerful as Musharraf, why do I have to answer everyone’.
All rulers would prefer a mute press. It doesn’t matter what their behaviour would be. Only thing that matters is how strong the civil society is. Civil society in the US produced films like ‘Foreignheit 9/11′ and they were shown in cinemas all over the world. We are on the path of becoming a stronger civil society and we don’t give a monkey what BB & NS would think about OUR free press.
All the Kabza Groups must be humiliated at all levels irrespective of the lable they carry with them.
IJT is a well known Kabza Group in PU, aprticularly & in Lahore in general.
I completely agree with Kami, there should be a neutral Students Union.
@Kami
You are right no leader wants to be grilled by the free electronic media espacially our old class of politicians.
But I would love to see BB NS madcow to be grilled in the same way as pre-nov3.
@Asif
If you have been through the article by Qazi Hussain (link given above), after giving a historical orientation, he has clearly mentioned that best solution is to allow student unions.
@Asif
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/nov2007-daily/28-11-2007/cartoon.htm
very funny & irony cartoon
Would have been nice if the table representing election was full of bottles of wine or maybe a roasted pig …
I don’t consider Qazi as an authority for for recommending anything, because his column shows his how weak he is within JI & IJT circles.
In PU literllay chiriya bhi apr nahi maar sakti baghair IJT ki permission k. To blame intelegence is no more than a lame excuse. I don’t buy it.
@Asif
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/nov2007-daily/28-11-2007/cartoon.htm
very funny & irony cartoon
Would have been nice if the table representing election was full of bottles of wine or maybe a roasted p*g …
Both BB & NS have ruled Pakistan twice and in their time Pakistan never able to achieve in any way significant.Every time they failed. NS had no agenda he is always interested in promoting his own business instead in PAakistan and of course BB is Proven Corrupt leader of the world.
Only Musharraf or you may call him Busharraf the dictator…. has done so many things for betterment for Pakistan then any ruler of Pakistan has ever done in the history
@Asif you don’t buy it even if Imran Khan is saying it is true???. We should look beyond our personal hatred and concentrate on facts. Why are you so adamant in saying that Intelligence is not involved in these activities when every other mess in the country is due to them
@downmsuhdown
I think you don’t kmow PU, have you ever visisted PU?
Mush ‘skin doff’ ceremony live on Geo news.
SOME BOLD-FACED LIES
Govt claims “No ban on Geo”
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=11422
“Deputy Attorney General Rizwan Siddiqui vehemently stated that there is no written order issued for suspension and the respondents have not imposed any ban or suspension on Geo TV Network.”
Govt Claims “No restrictions on Deposed SC Judges”
http://www.dawn.com/2007/11/27/top7.htm
“Caretaker Interior Minister Lt-Gen (retd) Hamid Nawaz said on Monday that the deposed judges, including Justice Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry, were not under detention and they were free to go anywhere in the country.”
Betraying justice for what?
Clearly none of bigger political parties cares a hoot for the deposed and purged judges of superior courts, still under detention, except Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan. PPP and even PML-N leaders have joined the US project to strengthen the hitherto Pakistan army chief’s cause. One directly and other through the Saudi king. The two buddies, Gen. Musharraf and US President George Bush, have shown they prefer the sword to be mightier than law, reason and pen. Most of the others have been overwhelmed or bought.
Yet most Pakistanis acknowledge the PCOed judges and the legal fraternity led by the shining galaxy of Justice Wajihuddin, Munir Malik, Aitzaz Ahsan, Ali Ahmed Kurd and so many famous or work-a-day lawyers as their heroes. These continue blazing a trail for the people to follow. They want respect for all human beings as equal and valuable for whom rule of law is a must. That requires judges and lawyers who value human freedom and who refuse to bow before autocratic rulers unendingly uttering deceptive falsehoods. The Judges led by Justice Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry and all 60 or more judges (who resigned in protest) constitute the true Supreme and High Courts in which legitimacy of law resides. They need to be saluted every day — and their lead followed.
This great betrayal of rule of law and human freedom — the heart of democracy – was spearheaded by the JUI chief and PPP chief, each wired to General Musharraf and the US administration respectively. They will legitimise the Army Chief’s actions of imposing the state of emergency (martial law really). Everyone knows that all the shots will continue to be called by the hitherto COAS behind the make-belief screen of caretakers and elections will be ‘managed’ through the agencies. Aware citizens expect these polls to produce Musharraf-desired results. Hitherto, the PML-N chief had refused any kind of deal with Musharraf and supported the old judiciary’s restoration. One fears that the US may have forced him to climb Musharraf’s bandwagon. He had been firm in demanding the withdrawal of emergency, the PCO and the restoration of the pre-Nov. 3 judiciary. One will wait for a few days before tarring him with the same brush as Benazir to know what exactly transpired at a putative meeting where the American ambassador was also present.
It is too late to remonstrate either with major parties about why they want to participate in an election held under emergency restrictions and in which agencies will do their mischief or to make futile appeals to Gen. Musharraf’s conscience. The former, in fact, had only minor differences with Musharraf and have composed them. The latter is likely to think his grand strategy has succeeded and he is home and dry for the next five years.
And yet Nov. 3′s emergency, PCO and media curbs will deepen all the fault-lines, indeed fissures, in the polity. All those who are participating in such an election are obliging the US and strengthening Musharraf so they can supposedly fight the Taliban and Al Qaeda better. But they should still think about what another five years of an unreformed Musharraf’s rule will do to Pakistan’s body politic.
(cont…)
Betr*ying justice for what?
Clearly none of bigger political parties cares a hoot for the deposed and purged judges of superior courts, still under detention, except Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan. PPP and even PML-N leaders have joined the US project to strengthen the hitherto Pakistan army chief’s cause. One directly and other through the Saudi king. The two buddies, Gen. Musharraf and US President George Bush, have shown they prefer the sword to be mightier than law, reason and pen. Most of the others have been overwhelmed or bought….(cont.)
@admin
Asif on November 28th, 2007 5:16 am
someone using my ID for his own interests, please ban him & delete these comments. Thanks
Asif on November 28th, 2007 5:16 am
someone using my ID for his own interest.
beware of this one
Asif(Real one):
Your ID’s been stolen…Why are do all these Mush supporters such bl**dy cowards? Sometimes they use my ID to support Mush or speak against IK, sometimes they are from Glasgow/UK/etc. Now it’s Asif’s turn…Proves you guys have nothing to stand on you p&thetic sw*nes…
MUSHARRAF is making his last speech…. you can watch this live @
geo.tv
@nota
its not there fault they are without skin. sharm k maarey saamney nahin aatey.
@observer:
No, Thanks!
(Doubt it is his last speech, anyways, as our so called leaders seem bent upon accepting him as their prez for another five years.)
What the heck is he talking about. He broke his oath, turned the khaki color into sh!t color and now he is talking about honor.
Time for real drama begins now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice “Free Munir Malik” Graphic
@Asif
Time to separate truth from lies!!!!!
Dear nota,
Please have courage to listen Mush supporter as others are istening/reading your comments. My views are that there are certain Indian & Isrealeis agents sitting behind this web site and churning useless comments against Musharaf. These agents are enemy of our beloved Pakistan. They are creating bad image of our country in the eyes of other countries. These type of people should be ashamed & immediately stop their Jewish lobby agenda.
LOL @ AFAQ
i think the multiple ID spammer is back
@Afaq
“Please have courage to listen Mush supporter as others are istening/reading your comments.”
Afaq, or what ever you are. I will listen to them as soon as they have the courage to at least use their own identity … doing otherwise proves you are p&theric c*nts…
HELLO LOST PEOPLE,
DID YOU HEAR WHAT OUR PRESIDENT SAY?
HE SAID THAT ELEMENTS LIKE SOME OF YOU HERE ARE LOST SOULS, BACKWARD SOULS, SUPERFICIAL SOULS, SOULS WITH VERY LITTLE KNOWLEDGE, SOULS WHO ARE ZEALOTS, SOULS WHO DO NOT KNOW THE REAL STORY, SOULS WHO DO NOT HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE OF HOW THINGS WORK- YET YOU PEOPLE TALK AND EXPRESS YOUR TRAITOR-LIKE VIEWS.
YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR OWN COUNTRY’S ARMY. YOU TALK LIKE UNDER SOME ENEMY AGENDA, OR YOU DO JUST THIRD-CLASS POLITICS; CHEAP POLITICS.
YOU PEOPLE WANT YOUR ARMY TO COME AND HELP YOU OUT FROM ALL BAD THINGS THAT HAVE STRUCK YOU. YOU WANT YOUR ARMY JAWANS TO COME AND BAIL YOU OUT FROM ALL ACCIDENTS THAT HAVE STRUCK YOU. YOU WANT YOUR ARMY SOLDIERS TO TURN UP WITH THEIR CRANES AND CARS, AND TANKS AND TRAILORS, RIFLES AND REVOLVERS, WITH THEIR TALENT AND EXPERTISE.
IT IS YOUR ARMY THAT COMES AND DOES THE HARD WORK, WHETHER IT IS AN EARTHQUAKE OR IT IS FLOODS, WHETHER IT IS AN ATTACK FROM THE ENEMY OR IT IS THE ATTACK FROM REBELS OR TERRORISTS FROM YOUR COUNTRY.
YOU CRIB, YOU SHOUT, YOU SCREAM, YOU DEMAND- YOU ARE SCARED AND CRYING. AT ALL MOMENTS LIKE THIS, IT IS YOUR ARMY THAT BAILS YOU OUT OF THIS STATE. THE ARMY PLACES YOU BACK ON A PEDESTAL, WHERE YOU AGAIN START LAUGHING.
BUT LIKE TYPICAL UNGRATEFUL HUMAN BEINGS, YOU FORGET THE TIMES WHEN YOU WERE CRYING AND COWERING, TREMBLING AND QUIVERING, SHAKING WITH FEAR. TRUE TO NATURE OF THE SHALLOW-BEINGS, YOU BECOME UNGRATEFUL, AND
FORGET AND START TALKING NONSENSE.
HOW COME YOU UTTER WORDS AGAINST YOUR ARMY, WHICH YOU WANT FOR YOUR HELP?
THERE WILL BE A LOT OF YOU, WHO WILL GIVE YOUR EXPLANATIONS, NOT HERE, BUT WILL THINK IT OUT IN YOUR HEADS, BUT NO EXPLANATION OR DEFENCE TO WHAT I HAVE SAID, WILL SUFFICE. IT WILL NOT MAKE ANY SENSE.
IT WILL BE JUST AS BAD AS IMRAN KHAN’S VERBAL DIARRHEA.
IMRAN KHAN NEEDS ANTI-ANXIETY DRUGS; BESIDES, A LOT OF PEOPLE INCLUDING HIM NEED TO ATTEND SOME CLASSES IN NATIONAL DEFENCE COLLEGE.
PAKISTAN SHOULD START CLASSES TO EDUCATE THOSE WHO ARE INTERESTED IN THE NATIONAL AFFAIRS, BUT BECAUSE OF THEIR HALF-BAKED KNOWLEDGE ARE HURTING THE NATIONAL INTERESTS.
WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE?
THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT, TO MUSHARRAF COMES, ‘PAKISTAN FIRST’. TO MANY WITH VERBAL DIARRHEAS, ‘PAKISTAN COMES WAY DOWN THE LIST’.
I missed the last speech of mad general , but seems he was of rhetoric.
I WANT TO CONGRATULATE WHOLE NATION FOR THEIR SUCCESSFUL STRUGGLE TO THROW A MAD GENERAL OUT OF ARMY.
This is the biggest achievment, but our struggle is going on and our next milestone will be restoration of judiciary and constitution.
Kat tay bhee chaloo , barhtay bhee chaloo
bazoo bhee buhat hain, sar bhee buhat
chal tay bhee chaloo kay ab deray
manzil hee per dalay jain gay
I am happy to see a new General in command.
I wish he will reverse military’s policy of “Musharaf’s ethnic war” against its own ppl.
Pakistan has to respect Pashtoon culture, their desire for Shariah and their anti-west sentiments.
@nota
tut! tut! such filthy language!
I think that it is Mush-bashers on this website who are strongly concealing their ID then pro-Mush commentators. And yes, you have to develop your level of tolerance to a higher degree to listen to alternative opinions as this remains the basic building block of any democracy whether in a country or on a website.
Otherwise there is absolutely no difference between the likes of you and worst dictators the world over!
May Allah Bring Misery and Curse to Musharaf and his Family.
Never trust a Tiny Liberal Minority in a Muslim Country. Musharaf is Mir Jaffar and Mir Qasim of our Age.
@Afaq:
Don’t know about” certain Indian & Isrealeis agents sitting behind this web site churning useless comments against Musharaf” but I do know this:
An Unlkely Visitor Gives Support to Musharraf
With the blessing of Washington, Jack Rosen, chairman of the American Jewish Congress’s Council for World Jewry, traveled halfway across the globe for a face-to-face meeting with Musharraf, who he had hailed two years ago as a courageous leader and driving force in Jewish-Muslim dialogue.
Pakistan’s President To Meet With American Jewish Leaders
In 2003, just before traveling to the United States to meet with President Bush, Musharraf broke new ground when he suggested that Pakistan might need to rethink its refusal to establish diplomatic relations with Israel.
The Pak-Israel Scene – A critical view by Pakistan’s ex-Ambassador
The rapid moves that Islamabad has been making indicate that Pakistan would soon become the 5th Muslim country to recognize Israel, the other four being Turkey, Egypt, Jordan and Mauritania while Morocco and Qatar only have limited trade ties. And the credit for it would not go to any elected civilian leader but to an absolute military dictator.
Jack Rosen Introducing President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan
President Musharraf recently praised Prime Minister Sharon as “courageous� for unilaterally disengaging from Gaza. For its part, Israel has agreed to loosen trade restrictions for imports of Pakistani products. On Wednesday, President Musharraf shook hands with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon – something that would have been impossible even a year ago.
A diplomatic surprise
Voices of disapproval emanate from the Muslim world as Pakistan makes high-level contact with Israel
Should I go on?
What a wounderful speech of Pervez Musharraf
Emergency to lift TOMORROW. GEO
Musharaf Is Poodle
“I am happy to see a Punjabi General in command.
I wish he will reverse military’s policy of “Musharaf’s ethnic war� against Pashtoons.
Pakistan has to respect Pashtoon culture, their desire for Shariah and their anti-west sentiments.
From now on
No war between Pashtoons and Punjabis, which was definitely started by a Muhajir liberal terrorist”
——————————————
YOU SHOULD CALL YOUSELF “ETHNIC TERRORIST OF PAKISTAN instead of”Musharaf Is Poodle”
——————————————
Afaq
I agree with you that there are certain Indian,Isrealeis and CIA agents sitting behind this website and writting useless comments against President Musharaf. These agents are enemy of our beloved Pakistan.
They talk about Pakistan and war between Pashtoons ,Punjabis, Muhajir, sindhi and Blochi and Kashmeri etc.
These are the real terrorist and enemy of Pakistan…..careful of them.
@
Musharaf Is Poodle
Be honest tell us from which agency you belong to ie. indian, Israeli, US, Russia or which
We are all
Pro Pakistan Military and Patriot ISI
and
Anti-Musharaf and his beloved Terrorist Kins in MQM
@
Musharaf Is Poodle
You are not Pakistani…that is for sure …tell the truth mate.
you must be HINDU mate….Am I right????
I see no difference in MQM and BJP
both are based in Utter Pradesh
Both are afraid of Islamisation of Pakistan Military.
What is the status of Musharraf today?
Is he the Preseident as per 17th amendment or the last ruling of the supreme court that he would remain president until he takes oath for the next regime?
Musharaf is Symbol of Hatred
Now Musharaf is Slave of Fuedals, Chaudaries and Libral.
He is Nothing
@
Musharaf Is Poodle
Nothing wrong being a Muhajir,punjabi, sindhi and Blochi and Kashmeri.
I wish I could have born in a Mohajir family. But it seem to me that… for sure you must have born in a HUNDU family.
I think from here starts the big exam for NS. Whether he entangles himself into the trap of removal of emergency or is still interested in the pre November 3 judiciary and other things. The more time he takes to decide, the more credibility he loses.
Guys watch your mouths!
Don’t defame this website with your useless comments and abusive language.
I think Nawaz will participate in elections as this was the deal with Saudis that he will be allowed to come back if he participate in elections.
perhaps sikh family
Khan sahab, let it go! Calm down
Nawaz’s return is the part of the game planed by US to make BB the next PM. Now it will divide the anti-PPP vote bank and BB could have a better chance to win. AS per Nawaz he is not that innocent to just sit back and let all this happen, he must have some reassurance that BB will kick out Musharraf and Nawaz will be PM after BB’s tenure. They had decided this back at when Charter of Democracy was signed that BB will get the first turn than Nawaz. I guess we are back in the 90s with same old black sheeps.
I don’t think Musharraf really cares about any punjabi or pushtoon. He is forced out by US.
Imran was in hurry
He did not trust Nawaz and Qazi
I think APDM should take part in elections in changed political environment, as it has become clear that emergency would be lifted soon, by an ever weakening Musharaf.
Imran has done damage to the real opposition by his hasty remarks, uninvited arrivals as student leader and his rigid understanding of Anti-Musharaf agenda of Right Wing.
Imran can easily become a liability, instead becoming an asset in up-coming elections, which is unfortunate.
BUT STILL WE LOVE IMRAN
some upcoming facts of life in Pakistan whether to the liking of anti-Mush commentators here.
1. Mush is going to be the President of Pakistan for the next 5 years.
2. He will have full support of the Army, USA and the west.
3. In next elections a coalition government will be formed with PML (Q) in lead followed by PPP and JI.
4. BB, NS or IK will never be the PM of Pakistan
5. The next PM of Pakistan is most likely Humayun Akhtar of PML (Q)
6. The OBL and Taliban phenomena will be visibly reduced in Pakistan.
7. This website will continue to churn out hate-filled comments by singular group of repetitive anti-everything, bad-mouth commentators with very low tolerance levels for others opinions.
Any Questions? ; )
Thanks Javed,
I would like to ask the admin to check the identity of my friend” Musharaf Is Poodle ”
GOD SAVE PAKISTAN, SAVE MUSLIM and DESTROY HINDU(not Pakistani hindu) and SIKH
@ LionHeart
Refrain from visible,
Ugly Spin
or
“TAQYA”
Musharraf would have started thinking about his end now. It’s never safe to be president without uniform. He would have to prove like GIK, the one I remember and who remained for quite sometime. Others had been too much in the past before Zia.
People of Pakistan should continue their struggle for free pakistan… free of all the vices.
Politicians, if allwoed, will learn a lot during their government in the presence of media. Media is not going to go away with the liberty it has gained and lost. They will get it one way or the other. Politicians have to be more sensible. Otherwise they should have people like Sher Afgan, Wasi Zafar, and AG so that people don’t take their comments serious enough to criticize the government. Just sit back and laugh at them.
Musharaf Is Poodle,
You seems to be an MQM bhai. You did exactly what they do. It has been pointed out many times by Kami that MQM munafiqs are the one who says that Oh I like Imran but Blah Blah Blah..
Buddy you are one of those.
@
LionHeart
I agree with you 110%
Please tell me more about…who is this Humayun Akhtar
Congratulations. But war is not over yet. Please read here:
http://pklatest.com/
Javed Dear
I have serious reservations about your
Hasty Judgment
Just like Imran.
Khan & LionHeart
You guys support Musharraf. I would like to know your comments on the video posted on this website about the missing people. That video is cited by Amnesty International.
Peja Bro. Nice advertisement of your blog.
But i have heard that Ch Pervaiz Elahi is also in the short-list for PM.
In Parachanar
The War is between
Sunnis and Shias
Just like Baghdad.
@LionHeart
.
I wonder what attraction does this site has for the critics of this site that they can’t refrain themselves from coming over here. Well Done @dmin. You are keeping this site good to attract people from all parties, all thoughts, and all sectors.
For me, PMl(Q) has no future. It could be any party who could form the government but not PML(Q). They will find two candidates for each seat. One who was nominated last time and could not be awarded because of lost reputation, and the other new nomination. Both will try to convince that they are more loyal to army (not to people), so agencies should try for their success. and this is very dangerous. this can divide the agencies
Its not about hasty judgments. Its about principles. In the comment above, you have trashed Imran Khan and put at the end “WE STILL LOVE IMRAN” what is this?
@
Javed
Honestly when I saw the missing people video…it make me cry not one time but many many times…..I considered missing people cases is one of the biggest crime done by Musharraf government and they should be held responsable for it.
Yes
But
Comment on Comments not on Commentator
And
By the way why do you think that Imran is your Private Property.
Yes I Believe That
IMRAN IS SOME TIMES WRONG
@khan of pro pakistan
Humayun Akhtar is the son of the ex-ISI general Akhtar Abdul Rehman who in Zia’s time was the chief architect of the Afghan War against Russians. He was the Commerce Minister in the last Government. Last time, Shaukat Aziz & Humayun Akhtar were in competition for PM post. This time Humayun will be be the PM.
@Javed
the posed video is no doubt produced very well. Emotionally heavy with police heavy handedness very well projected. But then again if a person goes missing in the USA by virtue of his involvement in any terrorist activity, similar scene are witnessed on media and on the street! So even the greatest democracy in the world is also involved in the same act! lest we forget Guantanamo and other CIA dungeons have been created by the democratic US Government whose agents can now pick even you up at a moments notice and not a single western enlightened governments will complaint! Even the western judiciary has its hands-off on Guantanamo! So if I am living on Pluto, maybe this video will be effective, but living on earth, its unfortunately a fact of life.
@javed
This is not my blog , it is pklatest.com which is part of pkpolitics.com and pkunited.com , an initiative of concerned pakistanis who wants rule of law , liberty , and freedom in our beloved country Pakistan.
I think we should not spread ethenic talk in Pak. We all are Pakistani, not sunni, baloch, punjabi, muhajir etc. This is not good for Pak. If we started to think like this then our enemy take quite good benefits out of it easily, becasue in this way we’ll not be able to recognize our true friend or enemy. Please. thanks.
@LionHeart
It is so disgusting to learn that it was just a fact of life for you. And you don’t have emotions. I wish we could feel them especially happening in our country and somehow could condemn them. This is just a phrase from a person who lives in a kachi abaadi and discusses with his yaar’s that police did that. Not from a learned person who is able to express himself in the form of comments. Oh that is what is meant by LionHeart.
Peja Bro. Accept my humble apology
@Fahad
Our true enemies are across the border, for whom we have an army getting all the budgets each year to spend. Do you think for suppressing just a part of the province, which has no air force, just some infantry sort of force, we need to spend this much of budget. Whatever is happening in the frontiers is just because of lack of seriousness or intelligence on the part of the army? I can really sense something fishy. Have you ever known they could seal the afghan border? From where they suspect arms are being imported. What other way they could do that? This is just lack of professional skill or I would say Lack of Integrity.
@javed
No problem. Thanks for comments anyways.
Agree with Tanweer Amjad.
This is all because Musharraf was busy in his politics along with ISI and Gen. Kiyani.
I have been reading comments that Gen. Kiyani will kick Musharraf and what not. It doesn’t seem to be happening as Gen. Kiyani is known for his loyalty to Musharraf. Gen Kiyani was present in the early meetings of Musharraf/BB deal and was present in the meeting in which Musharraf decided to impose emergency. I don’t have a lot of expectations from Gen. Kiyani.
I am very upset with the editorials of daily Jang (Urdu). They shamelessly toe the government line. How to write/call them and ask them to show some impartiality?
Also, I had great respect for columnist Irshad Ahmed Haqqani due to his support for democratic institutions. But during this whole crisis his role was dubious. He had tough time keeping his writings inline with the ever-changing BB’s stand. I really really want to talk to him and tell him that how much I am disappointed with him today. Does any one has his contact?
How about few thousands of us (especially those who are not in Pakistan and thus cannot vote) start influencing through our emails and telephone calls?
For example, how about we get the telephone numbers for the following and tell them (in positive or negative tones) what we want from them or how we are feeling about them.
Admin can we compile these numbers and post these on this website?
Politicians:
- Benazir
- Nawaz Sharif
- Imran Khan
- Qazi Hussain Ahmed
- Fazlur Rehman
- Shujaat
- Etizaz Ihsan
- Javed Hashmi
- Wali Khan
Judges, Media persons:
- CJ Iftikhar
- Wajihuddin
- Hamid Mir
- Talat Hussain
- Shahid Masoud
- Kashif Abbasi
Religious/spiritual figures:
- Mufti Taqi Usmani
- Dr. Israr Ahmed
- Tahir ul Qadri
- Javed Ahmed Ghamdi
- Sajid Naqvi
- Professor Sajid Mir
… any other personality of your choice
(Any telephone numbers for Wafaqul Madarass, and major madarassaas and ask them why they are out for cartoon issue, disrespect of Quran, ‘women right bill’, ‘shariat bill’, but not out now for missing people, suspension of human rights, suspension of constitution, sacking of supreme court judges etc).
Columnist:
- Irshad Ahmed Haqqani
- Javed Choudhary
- Ayaz Mir
- Nazeer Naji
- Irfan Siddique
- Mahmoud Shaam
- Khurshid Nadeem
- Atta ul Haq Qasmi
- Masoud Ashr
Editors of newspapers:
- Jang
- Nawai-e-waqt
- Khabrain
- The News
- Dawn
- Daily Times
- Express
Please let’s complie the numbers.
Raza
@Tanweer Amjad
You have the right to base your decisions on emotions.
I have the right to base my decisions without emotions.
You may not like Musharraf for your reasons.
I like Musharraf for my reasons.
does that make your type angles and my type devils or vice versa? I have the right to disagree with you completely and I will fight to protect that right!
maybe I do live in a kaachi abadi somewhere in Pakistan? so what?
whose right and whose wrong depends on who you talk to in or outside Pakistan. your disgust comes form your own personal insecurity and shortfalls and not for any other rhyme or reason.
@Javed
Just a question. Why neither of the chaudhris have not filed their nominations papers for Gujrat?
Musharraf regime has been imposing his authority on the people feeling all of them as ignorant kachi abadi people. Whereas the literate people lost interest to discuss anything with him. Musharraf thinks these kachi abadi people don’t know what they actually should have. they don’t need to improve their lives. He will ust improve the economy and doesn’t care whether they reach the kachi abadi people or not.
I didn’t t
Musharraf regime has been imposing his authority on the people feeling all of them as ignorant kachi abadi people. Whereas the literate people lost interest to discuss anything with him. Musharraf thinks these kachi abadi people don’t know what they actually should have. They don’t need to improve their lives. He will just improve the economy and doesn’t care whether they reach the kachi abadi people or not.
I didn’t have the intention of taunting the kachi abadi people. But I feel they are deprived of basic human rights and this is how they say about pakistani police and establishment. As a literate and learned person, one shouldn’t just say that this happens in the world. One should categorically condemn whatever wrong happens.
Tanweer Amjad, I want to make it clear that I am not Chauhdry’s spokesman. If you asked me as a Gujrat native than I will say that Chuhdries know that their party will win in Gujrat no matter what so they might have decided to go for other constituent and put some weak candidate in Gujrat and get him to Parliament. Usually Chauhdries use violence to shut down the polling booths where the opponent gets the more vote then them. This time I was told by mu friends that they have done a lot in Gujrat but I am not sure as I haven’t visit Gujrat from last 4 years.
I am very upset with the editorials of daily Jang (Urdu). They shamelessly toe the government line. How to write/call them and ask them to show some impartiality?
Also, I had great respect for columnist Irshad Ahmed Haqqani due to his support for democratic institutions. But during this whole crisis his role was dubious. He had tough time keeping his writings inline with the ever-changing BB’s stand. I really really want to talk to him and tell him that how much I am disappointed with him today. Does any one has his contact?
How about few thousands of us (especially those who are not in Pakistan and thus cannot vote) start influencing through our emails and telephone calls?
For example, how about we get the telephone numbers for the following and tell them (in positive or negative tones) what we want from them or how we are feeling about them.
Admin can we compile these numbers and post these on this website?
(I will post the list in next comments, it is not letting me go in one shot)
Raza
@Javed
Thanks because it was somewhat surprising for me. i suppose his relative nominated from Gujrat would also be some nazim as well, how could leave that post for someone else, just as Sheikh Rashid gave it to his nephew. He has also done a lot in Rawalpindi I suppose, but he would still not leave this seat. would be finding Kurd against him this time. Hello pindites, don’t legitimize these elections.
One thing bothers me!
Lawyers said that Musharraf’s presidential election from expired assemblies are unconstitutional but they also nominated Justice Wajih-u-Din. Now they say that elections under PCO are illegal and Kurd has filed nomination papers. Its either they are playing double game or I am not smart enough to understand it!!!!!
Justice Wajih was nominated due to his juristic skills to challenge Musharraf’s nomination in uniform as a candidate which he did and was following the case until November 3. He had no intentions to win, since he was urging opposition for resigns and dissolution of the assembly.
We all know kurd, he will just give a teaser to Sheikh Rasheed, and in any case he would boycot the elections, I suppose, since his supporters already want a boycot.
@javed
So for the presidential election it was very clear. In order to file a petition under article 184(3) of the constitution , you must be an aggreived party to request relief from Supreme Court. So if Justice Wajih had not filed the nomination papers to contest against the president , lawyer could not have gone to supreme court for any relief. By filing the nomination papers , Justice Wajih became aggreived party and filed the petition in Supreme court saying that his opponent ex-General(now) Prevez Musharraf can not legally/constituionally a candidate for president.
For the current nominations in election, I am really not aware of the actual stance of lawyers, however it is quite possible that ex-General may leave before the elections and constitution restored , so then they might be contesting the election constitutionally.
I would agree with Tanveer Amjad , Kurd’s paper might just be a teaser to sheeda tilli… Also please note that GHQ is in this constituency and Kurd as a valid candidate he would be delivering his fire-brand speeches in the heart of army.
Peja and Tanweer.
I want to know your opinion that if Nawaz knows that his return will help BB to win, what is his benefit in all this situation. How does helping BB will restore democracy as she said herself that she is here for power sharing with Musharraf.
@Javed
I spent 10 years in Islamabad, and visited the galleries in parliament, supreme court and islamabad club. My experience tells me that arrival of Nawaz Sharif is not good for Musharraf. I am sure some “BIG CHANGE” is going to happen in the next 4-6 weeks. So NS is here to become part of that big change.
So honestly I am not taking these election seriously.
But I may be wrong in my assessment.
Breaking News..
Turkish president Gul’s visit has been delayed by two days. He will now arrive on Monday.
Please note this visit is very important in the conext of future of ex-General.
NS would be dangerous for Musharraf if and only if he decides boycot of elections. People are of the opinion that Q-league would be destroyed to its actual form before 2002 elections. the division of PML helped PPP get the seats in most constituencies in elections 2002 as well. PML(Q) will be dependent on PPP to form government in Punjab and also major part in NA. PPP has never formed government in punjab. 5-years of loyality of PML(Q) and pro-Musharraf attitude of BB will move the agencies strong enough in their favour. In any case NS has to boycot elections for his good if he wants to show his sincerity to his workers and people.
Peja
How would you define BIG CHANGE. Is this throwing Musharraf out? If yes, than where we will go from there? Move forward WITH Nawaz and BB or go back to 11 October 1999?
This woman Benazir is going to spoil everything. I wonder why is she so mad to not see that she will get nothing in this. She would be the opposition at the most and Pervez Ilahi the PM (imagine…..). So forgetting principles and rules, even in her own interest contesting elections is stupid. And once PPP decides to contest, PML-N will be pressed hard to join in too. And there goes the efforts of all the people down the drain. I hate her for being a show spoiler. Literally the civil society prepared a revolution and put in in the laps of these politicians and still they cannot carry it forward but are wasting everyone’s sacrifices. Don’t they even think about people like Munir Malik and Justice Tariq, the lawyers whose careers are suffering, the human rights activits. Its all futile!
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=11432
@Aneeza
This is all what is expected from BB for ‘retoration of democracy’. I don’t think she ever consulted her party for that. But they all might have the same say, since it has been pretty long for her leaders out of government. the fight would be great between the two, remember the words of Pervez Elahi in the recent speeches against Benazir. And anybody could imagine BB accepting Pervez elahi as President and forming the government with him. she has to be in the opposition. And if she is in opposition, her workers won’t be happy at all, adn there starts the Long March.
Read ‘… accepting Pervez Elahi as Prime Minister’ instead of President.
Well “BIG CHANGE” in context of Pakistan usually means a total u-turn of the situation. These changes have occured in 1988 (After Gen Zia , BB became Prime Minister), and in 1999 (Army takes the full control back from politicians).
So a “big change” is in the offing. It may take 4-6 weeks, there are certain chapters still open , the biggest one is SWAT and the other one is Balochistan. They will be closed pretty soon and then the change will be there.
Of course I can not say what the real change would be in it details, but in its essence this will be a complete u-turn.
Again I may be wrong.
@LionHeart
you can never compare USA with Pakistan. Although I am against all their policies but one thing I like about USA is that no matter who is in Govt. they protect their citizens. If you mean same kind of scenes could be seen in USA, the goal behind is totally different than those in Pakistan.
USA does for their nation’s interests and Pakistani Regime does this in their personal interests and for the interests of USA.
Please don’t forget the privileges one enjoys when he is a US citizen. One US citizen’s life is more important than 1 million Pakistanis.
But I do respect your opinion and you can think what you like, you may have different feelings if some near one of you gets this kind of treatment.
Very well said Mazhar
A good article
http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=83151
Post Musharraf Scenario:
1- Army has decided not to play on front foot. But certainly they will not stop playing.
2- With certain mutual understanding of all stakeholders, judiciary will be resolved/restored as current judicial system can not run for long time.
3- Elections will be contested and new political structure will be in shape.
4- Globalization is one word that will force new political set up to continue with certain old policies. However, transparency might provide legitimation this time.
5- US-Army relationship will continue and instead of war driven policy, we will see peace negotiation in Afghanistan related issues bringing ‘calmness’ in disputed areas.
6- Middle east peace and oil business play an important role and the global players are dominant and behind all this new set up.
7- Musharraf will quit as president and disappear from scene swiftly to avoid another battle between institutions.
@Aneeza
thanks for forwarding the article link.
Yaqeen nahin aata that wardi utar gaye hai i still cant believe it that the sick general has removed his uniform……. but the story continues one b**tard goes another comes….
@ahmed bhai
I agree with your analysis.
I just saw Mush on geo his farewell speech clip. he seems very disappointed and no enthusiasm in his voice (khokhakly). today he really seems 60+ man
What do you think guys? Aren’t we going in U-turns?
So now we have a general who has never fought a real war! this is blessing because such a general will never attempt to fight even with their own people. thanks god we are nuclear power – the real deterant. Peace and economical development and educated Pakistan ahead
What do you mean make_over , which U-turn ?
make_over:
you must know in high traffic turns, u-turn is not allowed unless you travel too far to a place where u-turn is allowed. I think in last 8 years we have traveled too far and reached to that place where its allowed to take u-turn. traffic laws applied
Background of General Kiyani
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=11425
I read this in one of the comment on pkpolitics. I liked it
kar lay jitni hakoomat karni hai
kab tak karay ga
63 saal ka hogaya hai
kabhi tu maray ga
civilian pervez musharraf:
kon kahtah hey kah mot ai gee to mur jaun ga
mai altaf bhai ka supporter hoon darakh per chud ja unga
For all those who think that change is in the offering:
Thiose who think that a change is imminent from military to civil rule are mistaken and are also underestimating the power and influence that the Army has over the politicians, judiciary, professors, lawyers etc. It is true that the movement by the lawyers is still going on but underhand this is being slowly eroded. Judges will not be re-instated, common man will never get the rights till a civil war erupts and some leader emerges. this is an unlikely phenomenon. I do not think the change is in the offering or will ever be in Pakistan. It is unfortunate but it is true.
A nice article by Kamran Shafi
http://www.dawn.com/weekly/kamran/kamran.htm
@Aneeza,
In response to one of your previous postings:
—–
This woman Benazir is going to spoil everything….
—–
I was never under the illusion that she was going to do something for the masses or even had the capability for doing that. She was, is and will always be an opportunist because that is what she believes in and it is very difficult, if not impossible, to change someones nature. It is kinda like asking of Fazlu not to lick army’s boots or a snake not to bite or a chameleon not to change colors because it ain’t going to happen.
And what is NS doing? I am sure that he was told by the King that he would not initiate any mass protests and that is exactly what he is doing today. I am not very optimistic about the outcome unless a miracle happens and they have happened in the past, like Zia’s demise.
PML-N’s excuse has so far been that it has not able to bring in people on the streets because its leadership had been kept outside of the country. Now the leadership is there, so what has changed? nothing?
@Syed & Amir Hameed
I do agree with both of you. I have a feeling that all the efforts by lawyers,media and judges will go in vain. Only the characters are going to be changed. The writer is the same, USA. USA saw that there is violation against mush, so she is replacing mush. All our so-called learders are selfish. What do you expect from Sharif brothers and BB? they have been out of business (politics is a business for them) for over 7 years. A lot of loss of revnue. So if anyone of these two BB or NS comes in to power again they will try to make up for the loss in last 7 or 8 years.
There really has to be some miracle of revolution if we want change.
Has anyone seen the general (just to increase your patience level) handing over the stick. He wasn’t even sober from hangover.
Any good news from our political pundits or they will revive the “Nazriyya-e-Zaroorat” by themselves even the madcow is without skin!!!!!!!!!!!!
My friend just saw a man in his underwear running frantically from the army house towards the Presidency followed by a brigade of SSG Commandos
found this on teethmetro:
My friend just saw a man in his underwear running frantically from the army house towards the Presidency followed by a brigade of SSG Commandos
@pejamistri
lols
@pejay
Do not get excited! GIK had no uniform still fixed the politicians well and proper with Generals at his back. Busharraf has all the might of Army at his back. He will continue his unconstitutional rule unhindered with the help of Chaudarys, Khasi (almaroof Wasi Zafar), Sheikhs etc.
Silence shows that our political pundits except IK are smelling $$$$$$$.
Their decision making is very very poor, But no problem the current crisis has clearly gave us as an option 2nd line of leadership within big-parties, Aitzaz Ahsan & Javed Hashmi.
NS is doing family politics, as I have heard him on few channels saying, He won’t have any problem if SS would become PM, promoting his brother instead of asking his party for the alteranative. BB by herself is inssiting for 3rd term.
So not for people but hungry for flagged cars.
But no-problem we have now alteranatives for our representation.
What a shame this skinless general is ….. advising army to coup again in future. He was so nervous the was trying to open the stick before passing it to Kiyani. What a jerk. At the end of the clip he was saluting at people but nobody was looking at him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzpQ7sf5nBY
Due to personal grudges at highest level Pakistan suffered a lot. So there would be Max duration of holding an office, political or institutional.
Only in this way we can have new leadership on continuous basis.
@Rihat
Everyone to see the Youtube posted by her. It simply proves that we are a coloney of the Pak Army. They are allowed to treat us as they please, when they please and how they usually (that is with the toe of their boots up our….)
As per my prediction, all the corrupt pilitical pundit will take oth under PCO and unconstitutional president. I pray for PK Army not to let anymore corrupt political leader to loot this country and I pray for Ashfaq Kayani that Allah keep him at the borders.
aoa
guys a video by imran khan link below
http://www.pakistannewsroom.com/
@Hina
Its upto the people, if leaders are corrupt it just shows our reflection, so I dont worry now because we have now free media(check) that was not there in thier previous tenures
The real democracy will prevail in Pakistan when PPP would have non-bhutto party leader & PMLN would have non-mian party leader. That would be the begining of a new era.
@Asif
NS and BB will cut the last supply of blood flowing in the veins of media if they come into power. The time is not far.
@Hina
This time its 2000plus not their honey old days 1900. Its one thing that no one can stop now(free media), why?
Because now we cannot accept anything less than that, as we have already tasted it for quite some time.
Its new Pakistan where they have landed not their previous Jagheer.
I am seeing good days ahead only nothing else.
@Asif
You just saw he glimps of good days when they through old people from Model Town house belong to NS and they (to my knowledge) did not give them proper shelter or protection. We are bloody civilains in front of Army eyes and little insects in the eyes of Jageerdar, feudals etc. You want to see how NS and BB etc will treat us then just wait for few months. Its the time for the people outside the parliment has to loot this country and Army will take a break.
Dekh da janda reh Jumaray Dekh da jana reh
@Hina
You want to see how NS and BB etc will treat us then just wait for few months
—————————————————–
This time its the other way round, civil society(with a new spirit just because of lawyers & IKs bold steps), lawyers & media will give some kina treatment to these guys.
Thatswhat is something new(check).
BB & NS are still dreaming & living in old days, they would collapse if they don’t changed their policies.
Guardian: Musharraf bows out to the strains of Auld Lang Syne
…”Musharraf hasn’t taken off his uniform under his own will, rather under pressure from the powers who installed him and kept him in power eight long years,” Sharif’s spokesman Pervez Rasheed said in an apparent reference to the United States.
“Now the era of his unconstitutional and illegitimate acts will come to an end as the forces (who backed him) apparently withdrew their support.”
But Sharif has softened his threat to boycott crucial elections, saying Musharraf’s conversion to a civilian president will make “a lot of difference” and that he would only boycott the vote if all opposition parties agreed….
We can see good days only if sacrifices are offered from all the stakeholders. So far, only the civil society has been at the forefront of this struggle. The politicians are missing from this exercise and even though those who have admitted openly, Javed Hashmi et al, have not taken any practical steps to show that they actually mean what they believe in.
@Asif
If NS and BB had to go along with media and civil society from the bottom of their heart then they would have done it so far and would have boycott the election but they knew that they will get their share in the Govt with the help of west or by hook or crrok so they dont want to give THAT free hand to media and civil society to avoid future clash with them. We know how these power hungry people work in our country. They would have done like IK. Did they? They did not just because they knew that they will contest under PCO etc.
If BB&NS participate in election, rigging would bring MMA+PMLQ in a position to grab PMs slot, an un-educated guess.
And the it will be to late for BB&NS to say that elections are rigged.
@asif
In complete agreement with you. We have taken giant steps in last 9 months. That is how history is made and written. When historian will write the period of March 2007 and onward , one thing that will be highlighted is civil society awakening. It will not be Ashfaq Kiyani taking over from Mad ex-General , but civil society making a sitting general and his corps commanders to bow before their wishes.
@Hina
If the people of this country want to be ruled by corrupt then let them do, let them dig their own grave.
@Asif
That is what I am saying. If NS and BB come to your door and ask for vote the reject them and reject all those who already have been tested unless there are new faces.
Can we do that? NO we wont and we will again elect these bad guys.
@pejamistri
I am an optimistic person, always looks positive aspects of an event. And personaly I feel everyone wanna live a peaceful life if hes offered the good environment. So eventually we have started our journey & thats the important thing that we achieved.
We will have to give confidence to voter that its upto them, everything would be as per their wishes not what Traika thinks.
@asif,
Only way a nation digs grave is by being ruled by a military dictator, a dictator is epitome of corruption. A political leader in any type of democracy can never harm any nation. In fact democracy is the only filter which filter the corrupt leader to less corrupt and then no corrupt.
A military dictator is inherently corrupt and will allways increase his corruption with the pessage of time.
But unfortunately you won’t understand that. It needs to be a human and political animal to understand the benifits of democracy , liberty and freedom. It is hard for animals in jungle to understand why a dove or a pegion should rule the jungle when a lion is there. (No pun intended).
@asif
.. sorry..
my mistake above message was addressed to hina
@pejamistri
But unfortunately you won’t understand that. It needs to be a human and political animal to understand the benifits of democracy , liberty and freedom. It is hard for animals in jungle to understand why a dove or a pegion should rule the jungle when a lion is there. (No pun intended).
—————————————————————-
Its how you discuss the things & persuade the people, seemz to be brown-saab, if I am not wrong.
@admin
I dont know how many members Pk politics are have lets make a deal from now on
1:All efforts to progress Pakistan
2: we dont belong to any party we only belong to Pakistan
3: We want complete restoration of Judiciary.
4: We will be against all those who are corrupt and who looted Pakistan in the past. there is no second chance and those should not be forgiven.
5: If BB or Ns come clean thats great but they have to prove their innocence.
6: IK or Aitzaz or Javed anyone who ever prove that he is loyal to Pakistan and has intellect to serve as a leader we will support him.
7: Musharaf need to go.
8: Media need to be totally independent.
Admin can make us a force that can make some impact in the future.
@pejamistri
sorry from me too
@asif
There is no pun in this. Human beings have been living in jungle for a long time. Humans did not cover the distance from humans to political animal by birth. It took centuries to become a political animal. And if you understand there are human who would still think how is it possible that the corrupt leader can be choosen by the people when a person with might is already there.
I hope I clarified it.
@admin
. For instance we had been commenting yesterday (Nov 27) under link of News on Nov 26, since the there was no link of Nov 26. but last night I found the link for the two days (Nov 27 and Nov 28). Most of the comments of Nov 27 have been made under News on 26. Sorry for being too unclear.
Just wanted to say that normally we had been adding news of one day under link of the previous day, since the link could not have been added to that, so it is always good to add the link of the news for the next day before you end your day
no news about Musharraf giving up the army post.. videos etc. come onnnn!!! i thought this place was a little bipartisan..
..
not quite there!
It will take some time (decades) for the corrupts to be eliminated provided that the military does not intrude, the media is free and the judiciary is free. Otherwise, the only light that that I see at the end of the tunnel is from an incoming train.
Finally we found something missing on the site for pro-Musharraf people otherwise there hasn’t been anything in Pakistan for them. Now they have got something, they need it to be exhibited.
So what do they expect… vidoes like those of arrivals of BB and NS, some interviews with the PML(Q) politicians and reaction of the public.
@dmin
give the devil the due.
@amir hameed,
My thinking on corruption is that , a human being with power will always to tend to be corrupt (i.e. power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely) . Even in mature democracies you will find that leaders are usually corrupt that is why we here about the financial scams. However in a democracy , it is the rule of law and independent judiciary that stops the corruption of the leaders. So a leader can not just dismiss the whole supreme court just because it was looking into his corruption (both financial & ethical).
@dmin
I agree with Tanveer , in fact I wanted to hear his last speech as well , and analyse his body language and tone, it should be worth watching. I heard he was almost at verge of crying. And as usual he spoke several meaningless sentences.
Pejamistri,
I agree with you but if you look around then you will see that almost all politicians and government officials are corrupt. Who will allow the free judiciary to return? This is the biggest blow that Mush has done to this nation, that is, the dismissal of the judiciary and he should be hanged for this act.
@amir,
Yes this is ex-General’s biggest crime against people of Pakistan.
But I am optimistic that the judges will be back. We can not afford such a great loss. I will be extermely disappointed if that does not happen.
LionHeart == Shehzad AHmad Mir
Get the heck out of here before I expose you again. Shehzad Ahmad Mir is an arms dealer in Islamabad.
And frankly I don’t care what BB , NS or Fazlu say about the return of judiciary, I am more concerned about the general public/civil society. Will they accept this below?
Musharraf looked very depressed when he was giving farewell speech – he was rambling and I am sure he would realise that he has also lost in this game – in fact every one in his goverment has lost except Gen Kiyani who got COAS job.
1. Musharraf lost his army job plus his presidentship is controversial and is now based only on threats but has no legal or moral standing
2. Judges lost their job – and I dont think that would be restored at least in immediate future unless something happens to Musharraf
3. Shaukat Aziz lost his job forever and would never become PM again
4. Shujaat and Pervez Elahi also lost their jobs and inshallah would never return to power again now that NS is back
6. MMA lost because they have been fully exposed – FAzlu through is dubious dealings and Qazi through how they dealt with Imran Khan
7. Imran Khan has gained tremendously and took a very very wise decision of not participating in teh polls because they are going to be rigged in anway
9. People of Pakistan lost becuase they have lost an independent judiciary and free media of which we got so much used to – but Inshallah we would get back one day
10 What we gained – we saw true colours of Musharraf, BB, Falzu, Qazi and PML Q
11 Sharifuddin Pirzada finally got someone to step in his shoes in form of AG Qayyum
pejamistri,
The thing with civil society’s struggle is that it will only succeed if the level of intensity (of their struggle) increases otherwise it will slowly go away. We all need to make sure that the struggle goes on long enough to finally bring about the change. People should stop looking at the politicians to act as catalysts and look at the leadership from the civil society. If the CJP is freed then he will start leading the struggle but I am not sure if the SOB Mush will allow that for the same reason.
@Chussain
I don’t see any difference between AG Qayyum and Sharifuddin Pirzada, except the latter has a far far greater shameful experience. But both will keep on playing their roles in parallel along with Ahmad Raza Kasuri and Abdul Hafeez Pirzada.
@amir hameed
That is what I am banking my hope on. I am praying CJ and some other judges are freed , along with Ali Ahmed Kurd, Aitzaz Ahsan and Justice Tariq Mahmood, and then hopefully media is back. The movement will pick up then.
I am optimistic that:
1. mad ex-General can not keep CJ and judges under house arrest for long.
2. He will have to release the lawyers.
3. He can not keep the media gagged for long.
And this long will not be more than a month i.e. by mid of december. I can not believe he can keep the current status quo till January 8 specially after he has uniform.
@pejamistri
No one should support BB, NS or any politician. People should stand by someone whom they can trust to enpower the constitution in the country (rule of law), would put serious effort to restore judiciary, and make all politicians think whether they truly deserve to be in government or not. Do you think simply workers can make their leader win the elections. It’s the people who participate actively in all rallies.
I think tomorrow, NS, MMA and other parties will give their verdict for participating in elections or otherwise. If people agree with their verdict, they should support them, otherwise they should continue their struggle in an independent manner.
Question.
Does anybody from Pakistan tell which channels are now available in Pakistan? and what they are showing. Are they showing the programs like bolta pakistan, live with talat, kashif abbasi, ayaz amir etc..
thanks in advance.
Only GEO’s are not on. I don’t know which shows AryOne is showing as I don’t watch it since they fired Dr. Shahid Masood some time back. Aaj is of course not showing Talat and Bolta Pakistan. Not sure about Ayaz Amir’s show.
aoa
can one someone please throw some light on situation of our hero justice (r) tariq mehmood
because i have not heard anything about this noble person in media. thnx
Oh – and I haven’t come across Al-Jazeera either…
@aftab:
“can one someone please throw some light on situation of our hero justice (r) tariq mehmood”
There was a story in yesterday’s Dawn:
Justice Tariq Mehmood complains of maltreatment
Justice Tariq Mehmood complains of maltreatment
ISLAMABAD, Nov 26: With former Supreme Court Bar Association president Munir A. Malik already seriously ill, another former SCBA president Justice (retd) Tariq Mehmood has complained of kidney infection….
Well what i think that Nawaz sharif had played well uptill now, and submission of his papers is a good decision, but about Imran khan, I think he’s still politically immature, if he submitted his papers atleast PTI would secure good score, because common man trusts him, but if after these elections, Nawaz get better position and after getting power he’d release the Judiciary and media, Imran had to suffer alot, because nations memory is short and thse two things are biggest needs of people,
BB says she is in no hurry to accept mush as civilian presidents…..her mind games is giving MUSH jitters every day…
I HATE her but its true that she has all the aces at her hands and has kept every body involved guessing….mush is at her disposal and BB has certainly made him a permanent dirreah patient by now….
There is deadlock situation in Pakistan. I have an Idea to present to avoid head off confrontation.
1. President Musharraf has retired from his army position. So we should accept him as a president.
2. President Musharraf should end the emergency.
3. President should roll back PCO
4. Activate the 73 – Constitution.
5. President bring back all the judges back in supreme court. And Accept Chief Justice Iftikhar Ch. as Chief justice of Pakistan.
6. This new Supreme court provide protection to president.
7. Now president should call a meeting off all parties.
8. Supreme Court should suggest a care taker government.
9. Election commission should hold election under the direct supervision of supreme court .
10. Full bench of supreme court must sit in the election commission while all the results are being received and announced.
11. Chief election commission present this result to Supreme court. Who endorse it and announce it.
12. New parliament elect their prime minister.
13. This parliament ensure that president Musharraf will be in office for the remaining period of his term.
nayyar sohail
@aftab
Yesterday BBC reporter went to see him in the services hospital. But the doctors did not allow him to meet Justice Tariq Mahmood. It was told that they are planning to do an MRI scan for him. Also on one of the channel they showed a doctor saying he will be alright.
But all of these news are of yesterday. I did not find or here any news today.
BBC reporter actually met him but they did not allow him to record it. Here is the url.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2007/11/071127_justice_baloch_rza.shtml
@nayyar sohail,
to save Pakistan.
So for one person to remain as president we go through your 13 points. If you put one point more that will make Quaid-e-Azam 14 points
A person who has committed high treason remain president. My foot. Hedeserves a public hanging.