{ 407 comments... read them below or add one }

  • faisal said:

    I SINCERELY WISH THAT EVERY DICTATORS CHILDREN INCLUDING AYUB KHAN, ZIA AND MUSHARAF’S CHILDREN SUFFER ATLEAST AS MUCH AS THE NATION IS SUFFERING TODAY BECAUSE OF THEIR ACTS

    I WISH TO CONDEMN THE BAIGARTH PEOPLE OF THESE CONSTITUENCIES WHO ELECT THESE LOW LIFE’S BY CHOICE

  • taimoor kiani said:

    this is the most depressing time of my life ……….when i saw the little girl crying for her brother….. it made me cry too ……..she was just like my sister………..is that what we do to our people…..we as a nation should die in shame ………..wake up Pakistanis……..

  • pejamistri said:

    @faisal
    I agree with you. This is absolutely disgusting.

  • DowningStProtest said:

    DEMONSTRATION Against the Breaches of Human Rights in Pakistan

    Restore the Judiciary!
    Restore Democracy!
    Release all political prisoners !

    Time & Date: Saturday, 1st December at 1pm
    Venue: Opposite Downing Street

    Organised by: Doctors Against Breaches of Human Rights in Pakistan (supported by Campaign Against Martial Law in Pakistan & Free Pakistan movements)

    Tel. 07786394216 & 07817773438
    All welcome

  • Kami said:

    Documentary starts with Allah-o-Akbar. But I am not impressed.

    We all know that God is great but Muslims are very mean and low grade. If we don’t stand up now, I would be happy if someone else destroys us like Iraq.

    I feel very angry.

  • Masood said:

    I don’t know why these rulers forget one day they have to die as well.

  • shahid kinnare said:

    What can one say? Pray for our country. Pray for Punjab. Pray for Baluchistan. Pray for NWFP. Pray for Northen Area. Pray for Sindh. Pray for Kashimir.

  • shahid kinnare said:

    faisal, People of this CONSTITUENCIES do not elect them it is ISI which get them elected.

  • Arslan said:

    i completly agree with all of you guys and especially with faisal you spoke the my heart. i just pray to GOD ALMIGHTY to give this zalil musharaf the most miserable death. HOW COULD THEY DO THIS TO OUR OWN PEOPLE……and may ALLAH GIVE THE COURAGE AND TOLARENCE TO THE FAMILIES OF THOSE PERSONS. WE CAN JUST PRAY FOR THEM….SALAM.

  • syed said:

    I agree with shahid these people are from intelligence agencies who are doing all this.Pakistan army and intelligence agencies are been paid from USA to do all this shit…All i can say is that i feel very ashamed after watching this clip that we havnt done anything significant to help these people…:(

  • Ali Khan said:

    This video is totally based on false. An emotional game play. Very nice. Woow I can’t believe how people are playing in hand of other. If this good Pakistan agencies are i wonder how the heck people find out where these people are kept. When they were picked up. Who can give me information that these people who are missing are not gone away on their own to to do terrorism.

    Its just a game that start with one statement. ” Pakistan’s Agency should be dismantle.”

    Let suppose even if they are picked up before they do a crime that is the only thing one can do. Since there would be no need to arrest a head of a suicide bomber.

    Understand the reality what is going on.

    I need not say any further.

  • raj said:

    @Ali khan

    please enlighten us about the hidden agenda then; the alternative doctrine. It would be interesting to read that from u.

  • Taimur said:

    @ali khan
    nice speech but i strongly disagree with ya
    this is based on true stories, so many people are missing since this government made a crackdown on so called terrorism…catching people and handing over them to U.S.
    anyways, THIS POLICE has to be given some kind of training of how the F*** to treat people…..THIS POLICE IS SO DAMN RUTHLESS!
    AND then this guy WASI zafar with his english shi*.

  • mobin said:

    OMG no wonder why Pakistan as a country suffering so much embrassment. i am still shocked and almost crying;
    It is so sad to see Muslims doing this … dont they fear Allah, dont they read Quran,
    they are commiting sin which can not be forgiven.
    I is sad to see Muslims doing the very thing that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) strongly forbidden us to do.

  • UmmIbrahim said:

    Mr Ali Khan,

    you really need to open your eyes and stop lying to yourself. Situations like the ones showed in the video are EXACTLY what create hatred in the hearts of people who later go ahead and do suicide bombings. If there were no disapperances and Pakistan was a fair land where everyone is really free, there would be no suicide bombings. There is ABSOLUTELY no proof that the people arrested had any connection whatsoever with terrorism. USA is simply paying Pakistan to deliver them supposed terrorists. Any person is chosen without any reason. When your own father, son or brother disappears, we’ll see whether you keep on saying the same thing.

    May Allah guide you to the truth.

    Umm Ibrahim
    (a canadian convert to Islam)

  • missing_pakistan said:

    I am crying.
    I dont have any word left.

    This is too much!!

  • GHAAAZI said:

    IN SAB ARMY GENERALS KO IS AURAT KI BAD DUUA LAGEGE AMEEN SAB MAREINGE AUR KISE KA NAM O NISHAN BHI NAHIN RAHEGA AMEEEN

  • GHAZI said:

    Darbar-e watan main jab ik din sab janay walay jaein ge
    Kuch apni saza ko pohanchein ge, kuch apni jaza le jaein ge

    Aey khak nasheenon uth baitho, woh waqt kareeb aa pohancha hai
    Jab taj uch’halay jaein ge, jab takht giraey jaein ge

    Ab toot girein gi zanjeerein, ab zindan’on ki khair nahin
    Jo darya jhoom k utha hai, tinkon se na ta’llay jaein ge

    Kat’tay bhi chalo, barhtay bhi chalo: bazoo bhi bohat hain, sar bhi bohat
    Chaltay bhi chalo, k ab d’air’ay manzil pe hi da’lay jaeinge

    Aey zulm k maro, lab kholo, chup rehnay walon chup kab tak?
    Kuch hash’r to’ un se uthay ga, kuch do’or to’ na’lay jaein ge

  • missing_pakistan said:

    @ GHAAZI

    Ameen

  • Hilal said:

    @ Ali Khan

    We should all pray that these ‘GOOD things’ happen to you and your loved ones.

    Dont be angry, if these are baseless, you will be happy and those who will be crying for you will be liars!!

  • Imran said:

    Ali, suppose government officials abducts you or your father or any of your relatives because they believe that they are terrorist. How would you feel about it?
    Suppose out of 100 people who are missing, 20 people are innocent.
    Do you think it is right ?
    Think that those 20 people are kept in Jail, beaten up, sexually harassed, mentally tortured and no one is answerable and no one can help them. Try to put yourself in this situation. Have ever been to a jail, or even spent a single night behind bars, and used dirty washrooms, etc. Could you imagine if you are put in these circumstances how it may affect your entire life (mentally)? Along with the lives of your parents, your wife, children , etc.
    Therefore we need constitution. We need human rights, right to contest in court if alleged of a crime.
    I think I made my point.

  • zenith said:

    just to stay in power, these genarals play such a ruthless game with the help of sme dispicable politicians. Army will pay dearly, it already is. the ISI is getting. Why would some people lift arms and ram into someone with explosives tied around. The army deserves the pounding. plz Watch the video and read the message of Mr. jinnah at the end.

  • Adnan said:

    This is all propaganda.Its good that all these terrorist are locked up.

  • observer said:

    I do not lose my nerves very easily but I tell you all … watching this video made me cry.
    I CANNOT believe this A**H**E MUSH has CROSSED SO MANY LINES to PLEASE BUSH.

    Innocent people who have nothing to do with terrorism MUST NOT BE TREATED like this.
    This is very sad.

  • z said:

    First of all we can only pray for poor peoples.The man(ch Iftiqar) who can give them justice he is out of his seat.
    In the last mr khan,(i don`t wana use ALI name to call u because i have too much respect for that name)i don`t know how can u defend those people who did this crime,are u a normal person?I know this forum is for every one but please don`t come here with your baseless thoughts.
    We already upset after watching this kind of terrorism by our police.And u come with your stupid ideas how can u say that this is false,o mr put yourself or your family member on their place & ask what happen.

  • Rizwan Mian said:

    This should be an opener for those who are still seduced by Musharaff’s charming promises. I cannot see intelligence agencies pursuing kidnapping without the blessing of their highers.

    @Ali Khan, dont you see what is going on? dont you reason why this is happening? Doesn’t it make you wonder? Amnesty International is a human right watch, and there are other credible citations in this documentary.

    Many of us are protesting against kidnappings, but we have not suggested dismantle the agencies. How did you link both together?

  • zenith said:

    @ z
    plz remember, the only ones supporting the army are the children of the top brass of the army and those who are getting monetary benefits from the army.everyone knows how corrupt is the army.

  • Kami said:

    Agencies do not have any one. They have gone for Jihad, that is why they are missing (Musharraf)

    Supreme Court ordered agencies to release the people they had. (Musharraf on 3rd November).

    BB & NS have no future in Pakistan. They will not be allowed to return (Mush)

    I will remove uniform in 2004 (Mush in 2001).

    I never lie. I am very straightforward (Mush on many occasions)

    God’s curse is upon liars (Quran)

    A liar has a week memory (Hadith)

  • GHAZI said:

    Today I feel so ashamed of myself to call myself a Muslim and a Pakistani. Is this the way we treat our respectful sisters by bringing them on the streets and beating them???

    We all belong to a Muslim society and we still just watch our sisters being oppressed like this??? Don’t you all think we should have been there with our sisters and protest with them when they needed us????

    If we don’t guard the honour and dignity of our sisters then who will???? I wish if Generals like Salah ud din Ayubi or Muhammad Bin Qasim were alive they would have either crushed the oppressor or would have died fighting. I wish I can do something for the families of missing persons other than just writing here…..

  • Asif said:

    Aye Khuda hamain hidaiyyat farma (Ameen)

  • Shah Saud Sahibzada said:

    @ALL those who care,

    Don’t tell me you guys can’t do anythig please.

    WE can do as much as POSSIBLE. Get smart.

    Rather than crying,made those reponsible cry for the crimes they are committing just to stay in power.

    I don’t know how many times have I already proposed but I consider this my responsibilty to APPEAL TO ALL AGAIN

    1. Boycot military socially and MORE IMPORTANTLY ECONOMICALLY.

    Why do you think the military take-over in the first place?

    Ans: TO ENSURE their non-PROFESSION related busineses and perks are intact.

    WHere in the world has a military running banks, factories, residential schemes,toll plazas, construction conglomerates, corporate farms and a budget without discussion?

    ALL THESE ARE ILLEGAL and MUST be BOYCOTED. THIS is what everyone of us can do. This is what we MUST DO. STRIKE WHERE IT MATTERS. HIT the POCKETS OF GENERALS HARD.

  • Asif said:

    @Shah Saud Sahibzada

    Its not just one istitution, visit the remote areas of all the provinces, all the metro cities, you will find private torture cells & jails.
    Infact theres a Kabza Group Mafia who get togethere(deals) whenever one of them is in the danger.
    I have the same feeling for all these Kabza Groups who diverts public attention from an independent judiciary.

  • Amir Hameed said:

    This was one of the reasons that Mush tried to sack “my man CJP” because he had asked the forbidden question for the common masses. These intelligence agencies are used only to terrorize their own citizens. How many times do we hear that the police was able to apprehend the culprit or was able to deny a robbery? very rarely. And how often we hear that police tortured the civil society in one form or the other? almost every day. How often have we heard that the intelligent agencies were able to locate a suiside bommer? never but they know precisely how many entered a city. These agencies need to be reigned as they have been operating way out of their domains for too long.

  • asim said:

    Great thing is that due to Musharraf’s crimes and stupidity Pakistan is heading towards, no it is under going, a real revolution.
    Beware Benazir and Nawaz Sharif, the age of 10% and Daewoo are over.

  • CHAND said:

    This vedio makes usa cry.
    It makes me sad.
    Oh Allah help these innocent people

  • ashes in the fall said:

    Very educating- and people with any sort of justice in their hearts would do well to ask questions.

  • Arslan said:

    this documentry is lesson & also turning point to think about our so called leaders and brutal army. Please i request infront of u try to choose honest people. Try to discourage our basterd police every where because they are not halali.

  • Arslan said:

    i request to pkpolitics that they should expose these sort of problem to make people aware.

  • Arslan said:

    i request u to pray for this Great Lady who is strugling for her husband.

  • GHAZI said:

    The guy getting arrested in the video is just 16 years old, just imagine anyone of us if u dont see any one of your parent for 2 whole years and you dont even know whether he is alive or dead???? (I hope Mr. Masood is fine INSHALA)

    Tommorow, Kiyani will take over Musharaf He was the Head of ISI when all these persons got missing so one b**tard goes another comes………

  • Abnormal said:

    @Ali Khan

    I know you will laugh but on the day of judgement accused will be punished. Victims’ hands will be on these rascles necks. There will be a list of those who committed these crimes, who supported these crimes and who tried to justify these crimes.

  • Dr DK said:

    the onus is upon the pakistanis abroad to express solidarity with our brothers in pakistan. people in well placed positions should organize talks, political debates to mount pressure. while monster musharraf is immune to any pressure we can still do our bit. we should also make dua…ay Allah hamein zalim kay zulm say bacha.ameen

  • Sal said:

    Nice emotional black mail… this is y media was banned in pak.

    who ever made this video i would like to ask u if one of these missing persons today pulled up in a car next to you and blows himself up killing ur loved ones, who will be responsible?
    the truth is there are stupid people out there who are brain washed by some evil people into doing stuff like this.

    now look at the stupid comment by Zenith. acc to him every one should take up arms start fighting with govt than once the govt is gone start fighting each other kill every single opponent. and that will be the end of the strongest muslim state ever, who will win than? hasnt iraq taught you any thing…

    so my advise is i know things are not perfect but i consider Mushrraf still better than any other Money hungry, lying SOb politician. give him a chance he is already taking of his uniform why do u think he would ever want to do that if he wanted to be in power always.. he can continue his emergency and lock up or hang all the politicians since they are all in pak now.

  • saleem rabbani said:

    @all

    what can i say except this kay ” JAISEY LOG HOTEY HAIN WAISEY HE HUKMARAN HOTEY HAIN”. WE ARE ALL CRIMINAL SOMETIMES I THINK WE ARE NOT DOING WHAT WE SUPPOSED TO DO, THAT IS TO FOLLOW THE LIFE OF OUR NABI MUHAMMAD SAL LALLAH OH ALEYHE WASALAM.

    WE ALL SHOULD TRY TO CHANGE OURSELVES THAN CHANGE WILL COME INSHALLAH. SALEEM PA USA

  • RH Shimatoree said:

    The video speaks for itself and it merely touches the surface.
    I hope this explains that those people who have been part of the Musharraf gang are hired guns of the west and they have subjected the people of Pakistan but esp: the people of the Frontier to un mentionable abuses.
    As yet there are people in Pakistan who actually have nice things to say about Musharraf.
    What we must do is to make sure everyone sees this video- so send the link to everyone you know everywhere.

  • truebeliever said:

    I admire admin for putting this video up for us. I also admire those who produced this documentary.

    It is clear from this that the real terrorists in the country are the Police and agencies.

  • Abnormal said:

    @Sal

    I dont know what is your nationality, what is your religion but what you have said can be said only by one who hasnt got human feelings, you are sounding satanic, you are sounding criminal, you are sounding traitor and above all you are sounding wasi zafar.

  • Tabish Bhimani said:

    Hello,

    I have to agree this is an important problem we have to take into account. It is as serious as any other case. Every individual disappearing is a serious problem in our country.

    My question, then, is where is the proof that the state has funded these kidnappings. An individual in say Amnesty International is no authority on facts and figures as such.

    Also note how there are many cuttings during interviews, which for all we know, are important details left out.

    I agree that this is really a serious problem. I also agree that this is the one of the most inhumane thing I’ve ever seen.

    I hope someone will answer what I said, without getting all emotional and suddenly passionate, putting forth facts.

    Thank you.

  • Zarak Khan said:

    OK Sal. For a moment, let us agree with your rationale that any one of these “people” can pull up next to your car and kill your loved ones.

    Since you are sure of this, then wouldn’t the next logical step be for the govt to file terrorism charges against these “criminals”,produce the evidence in court and put them away for life ? Sounds like very simple way to me to take care of a serious problem. Don’t you agree ?

    Now tell us why do you think they are missing ?

  • Sal said:

    @abnormal

    i just showed you the other side of the picture.

    and good luck with NS or BB winning the election or which ever blood sucking “haramkhor” you support. how easy it is for them to motivate morons like you into giving them votes…

  • Abnormal said:

    @ Zarak Khan

    I was just going to say this….you are 110% right

  • Shan Ali said:

    Masood family should have gotten UK or EU citizenship first then no body in pakistan would have dare touch them.

  • smile said:

    Pakistani army has killed more pakistanis than Indian army.

    Our own ISI has kidnapped, tortured, sold more pakistanis than Indian RAW.

    Pakistani Army has created political instability more often than indian army.

    Pakistani army has invaded pakistani civilians more often than Indian army.

    Pakistani army is our enemy and not Indian army.

    We need democracy and army should be kicked out of all businesses.

  • Salman said:

    I dont understand the Police men. who do these things. what do they get from it.

  • Naumeed said:

    It is important that we realise who our enemy is…..

    Pakistani army has killed more pakistanis than Indian army.

    Our own ISI has kidnapped, tortured, sold more pakistanis than Indian RAW.

    Pakistani Army has created political instability more often than indian army.

    Pakistani army has invaded pakistani civilians more often than Indian army.

    Pakistani army is our enemy and not Indian army.

    We need democracy and army should be kicked out of all businesses.

  • saqibtahir said:

    Extremely shameful.

    The role of ISI in Pakistan is extremely brutal. What happened in Laten America during 80’s is happeneing in Pakistan since 60’s.

    During Ayub days it was Leftests who suffered.

    During Yahya – freedom seekers suffered

    During Zia – PPP and its leadership and Leftests suffered

    Islamists were part of those torture campaigns

    Now it is there turn.

    This guy Hamid Gul deserves to be killed 1000 times. He is one of the master minds of torture cells and terrorism of ISI. These people are criminals.

  • Munna Phd said:

    Shame Pak Fauj, Shame Punjab Police.

  • Sal said:

    @zarak khan

    i agree wiht u but i am afraid in pak that would not have been possible.

    judiciary was corrupt and was due to political intrests confronting the govt. all those Chief Justice supporters i ask u where was this hero of urs CJ before all this confrontation with Musharraf i think he has been the CJ for a while y didnt he take all these Suo Moto’s earlier? y now..

    so now u tell me? you think a genuine brain “washed person” would have been sentenced or kept away from innocent ppl on the road.. i doubt that!

  • Janbaaz said:

    while some cases of missing people may be valid and indeed, in some cases the agencies must have crossed the line, one must really ask the question, why all this propaganda against Pakistan as a state now ? How is it that such a well made documentary is produced now ? where were all these bleeding hearts since 911 ? The answer is clear. The utility of musharrafs regime is now at its lowest. So now we are seeing a well coordinated attack on the regime by the media, ngo, and so called impartial judiciary and their friends in political circles. Its a good strategy and a lot of educated and patriotic pakistanis are falling into the trap but unless there is widespread protests, the regime will survive.

  • Zia Gondal (Korea) said:

    *********************************
    My heart is weeping.

    - I could not manage to watch the complete report. It is height of ZULM and brutality.

    * May ALLAH’s Azaab come to Mush as well as on those who are backing him including politicians and law enforcement agencies.

    * May peace and happiness soon be back to all such families who are facing a real tragic situation. (AMEEN)

  • Naumeed said:

    Our country is worse than Nazi Germany.

    Germany had only one hitler whereas we have a series of Hitlers.

    Our ISI is worse than GESTAPO.

    Gestapo killed non germans and ISI kills all.

    Hitler’s police also kidnapped thousands of civilians on suspicion of being communist and tortured to death. Here Pakistani secret agencies have captured thousands of our brothers (Many of whom are innocents). Tortured and killed and people like tasnim aslam have the audacity to speak barefaced lies.

    These people are real kaffirs. All people must get rid of these liers through democratic means.

    Peaceful protests must be used to demonstrate. Civil society should come out on streets and protest. In the place of small group of protesters if 100000 people would have gathered then police could not have kidnapped the 16 year old child.

    Shame on ISI.
    Shame on Pakistani Army. (Which is fit to wear bangles).
    Shame on pakistani awaam for not protesting.

  • saqibtahir said:

    What an emotional speech by Roedad Khan.

    Strangely he was very close to Zia nd was his interior and cabinat secretary. He was very close to GI Khan and signed death warrants of Bhutto.

    Now he is democrat like Hameed gul.
    Is thi a change of heart or these criminals have some new agenda?

  • saqibtahir said:

    @Ali Khan

    Yes Pakistaniagencies must be dismntle or compltey overhauled.ISI has become SAWAK of Shh of Iran. They are breeded bearded animals. Nation hate them.

  • Naumeed said:

    What ever……..

    I donot care who is saying what…

    This zulum must stop.

    ISI cannot keep people without court’s permission.

    If someone is terrorist then coursts must punish him else he should be set free.

    Just because some officier in ISI is angry on some vegetable seller, the poor fellow cannot be kidnapped and put in prison for torture without court case.

  • nota said:

    How can one call it a fabrication when even Mush has admitted he has been selling Pakistanis for $5000 a pop? The last people I personally heard justifying it was a PMLQ MPA whom I threw out of my house. I have personally met one of these victims but he has been unable to talk about the experience so far. He is a lawyer who was picked up on the “evidence” that one terror-suspect had called his number. The intelligence people even admitted he had not talked to that suspect but were interested to know how the guy got a hold of the lawyers number. This guy said Hey, I am a lawyer and a lot of criminals have my number. They took him anyways and he just disappeared for some 2 years. Then one day out of the blue he showed up at home saying they drugged him and put him in a rickshaw.

    Remember, even after Mush is gone, the system stays. War on Terror will go on…
    Let’s just take the example of Police: Do you think anyone is going to fire all those “cops” recruited by Chaudhries? The whole police force needs to be disbanded. And remember, one of Mush’s excuse for the PCO and firing of judges WAS that these very cops in ISI agents were loosing morale as they were being asked come before the court.

    About police, let me give you a few examples that I know are facts. I do know these policemen pay as much as Rs.500,000 as recruitment fee. How do you think they intend to make it up? There salary can’t be even close to Rs.10,000 (does anyone know what it is?) Second, in my hometown tehsil, each police station has to pay the DSP Rs.100,000 a month. There are 35 police stations so that makes his take Rs.3.5 million a month plus what bakhshish he gets directly. The SP I know personally was thrown out from police force for corruption in a very public case by the Chief Minister who claimed he had him on tape with an underworld figure. But guess what? One month later that underworld figure is arrested and surprise(!) killed in jail. A few weeks after that the same CM reinstates him and now he has been promoted. This person has recently bought a Mercedes SL500, a new house in Defence, spending crores on interrior decorations alone. He also has bought more than 10 plots here and I don’t know how many more that I don’t know of. He is also buying up agricultural land like crazy and I don’t have a clue how much he has but has put the word out that anyone selling land in the area to please come to him for he will buy it.

    And this is just one of the more honest police officers :) Think what a General can do.

  • Naumeed said:

    In Indian state of uttar prades the police recruitment was defective and many criminals were selected. They had given bribes.

    The next govt has kicked out all of these. More than 17000 policemen were dismissed in 3 months.

    If India can do it then why can we not?

    I say

    Dismantle ISI.
    Dismantle Police.
    Make law than no Army men can ever think of coup.
    Make army chief a subordinate to airforce or navy chief who in turn shoud report to some committee of bureaucrats.
    Make police under the control of judiciary.
    Take away all business from army.

    Make new police and new secret service with one aim: to get intelligence on enemy countries.

    Make it mandatory that to arrest some one a warant signed by a majistrate is needed and the arrested person should be produced before the court in 24 hrs.

  • Ali said:

    Shame on Army, Police, HIJRAY.

    Aurtoon aur Bachoon ko martay hein.

    India kay aagay hath joortay hein.

    I am ashamed to be a Pakistani.

    Musharraf will have a horrible ending.

  • Ali said:

    This is why we must support IK to stop this.

    Dismantle all the agencies and stop the atrocities against people of Pakistan.

  • Ali said:

    The CJ must be restored so that he can release all the people against whom there is no case.

  • nota said:

    Please read “cops in ISI” as “cops & ISI” in my previous post…

  • Naumeed said:

    No need to be ashamed Ali.

    Actually we are still slaves.

    Earlier British ruled us directly and now they rule us through the pakistani army and ISI.

    We should do peacefully struggle for freedom.

    Look at India they are developing so fast because they are free.

    We should follow the example of Gandhi and Nelson Mandela and protest peacefully.

    First we should bycott all products of Fauji faundation.

    We should should start social bycott of all army men.

    A nation of 160 million cannot be slaves for half a million faujis.

    We should defeat the corrupt, shameless, oppressive pakistani army peacefully.

  • Kami said:

    I think all those who support police/agency brutality should be ashamed of themselves.

    Yesterday I met some guys who support MQM. They were saying that when MQM guys were being mistreated, no body protested.

    I drew their attention to police brutality and suggested that we make a pressure group and bring these police guys to justice. I mentioned recent examples where we have video and pictorial proofs.

    These MQM supporters started telling me that the police is good and their experience says that police only mistreats bad people. They ‘opened’ my eyes by telling me the ‘facts’ that police did not mistreat Imran’s sisters and that its the other way round. They also told me that it was the lawyers who were bad, not the police. I told these MQM supporters that I am surprised that police in pakistan was so good and no one told me.

    If we have intellectual dishonesty, we cannot do anything. I want to ask MQM supporters why they keep telling us about police brutality and now they are not only quiet but supporting that as well.

    For MQM supporters, few verses from a German poet who was arrested in the end:

    When Hitler went after Socialists, I kept quiet; because I was not a Socialist.

    When Hitler went after Trade Unions, I kept quiet; because I did not belong to a trade union.

    When Hitler went after Jews, I kept quiet, because I was not a Jew.

    When Hitler came after me, I looked around, But there was no one left to protest for me.

  • Kami said:

    For MQM supporters, few verses from a German poet who was arrested in the end:

    When Hitler went after Socialists, I kept quiet; because I was not a Socialist.

    When Hitler went after Trade Unions, I kept quiet; because I did not belong to a trade union.

    When Hitler went after Jews, I kept quiet, because I was not a Jew.

    When Hitler came after me, I looked around, But there was no one left to protest for me.

  • Kami said:

    I think all those who support police/agency brutality should be ashamed of themselves.

    Yesterday I met some guys who support MQM. They were saying that when MQM guys were being mistreated, no body protested.

    I drew their attention to police brutality and suggested that we make a pressure group and bring these police guys to justice. I mentioned recent examples where we have video and pictorial proofs.

    These MQM supporters started telling me that the police is good and their experience says that police only mistreats bad people. They ‘opened’ my eyes by telling me the ‘facts’ that police did not mistreat Imran’s sisters and that its the other way round. They also told me that it was the lawyers who were bad, not the police. I told these MQM supporters that I am surprised that police in pakistan was so good and no one told me.

    If we have intellectual dishonesty, we cannot do anything. I want to ask MQM supporters why they keep telling us about police brutality and now they are not only quiet but supporting that as well. Just because their party is in power.

  • Ali Khan said:

    Well, I don’t need to Ans all of you. And justify my thought and point of view to any one since like all of you i have the liberty to have thought and express. Let me also PROMISE here that i shall not pray for any of you to go to hell and to die, and also that i shall not Distrust your ideas and thoughts, since Allah Talah Knows the BEST.

    But let me also Pray to all of us this; that what we are looking at here only a side of picture plus one sides interest.

    The thing is that we are asking some one let us speak but we don’t give him the right to do so, and when he tells us some thing we just say shut up you are lying. And they we do this most oftenest is by closing on our eyes what we don’t want to see.

    You all love Ali Ahmed Kurd. Why? Let me guess that when he was standing in front of Supreme Court and said on the 20th that This supreme court is now the free, and is the this CJ is now above every govt pressure and what not. But why are we forgetting the day when after that decision on rejecting the petition against president by Bench in Qazi Hussain ahmed and Imran Khan Case he said in front of the very supreme court and judges that this decision “came from presidency and GHQ these Judges are sold” (it is a quote from his speech). And what did Munir Malik said He will burn hell court down.

    There are list of argument that i have but i hope you get my msg.
    Let me add this here, world is not as simple as is seams. I wish that we the people of Pakistan understood the importance of trust. And not to distrust some ones intentions just because you don’t believe it.
    A Little example I would like you to see the first three videos of the following link. And again let me add Zahid Hamid is very independent analyst. My thoughts are not ONLY BASED ON this it is just clue i wish i could add some more stuff here but i hope we all would know where we stand.

    http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user=marmaid9

    I am waiting for all of your comments. But hope we would be more logical this time.

    Wsalaam
    Ali Khan

  • Kami said:

    @ Ali Ahmad

    Thanks for giving reference to PTV rubbish. We don’t need that link.

    I can only pray that same thing happen to all those who support such actions.

  • Kami said:

    To MQM brothers:

    If you be quiet and support brutality now, who will speak for your rights when the same agencies start another operation.

    It is very dangerous to support dictators, especially when they are lame duck. Mush will run to Turkey and the unnecessary anger will be directed towards other sections of society.

    Let us unite now. It is never too late.

  • Ali said:

    As you see only 10% or 20% of Pakistani people may be offereing 5 times prayer regularly. So Pakistani people failed to implements the basics of ISLAM in pakistan.
    Therefore we have such rulers ruling us.

  • bing said:

    @ ali

    people is saudia are made to pray 5 times y do they have a dictator ruling them

  • S Khan said:

    @Ali Khan,

    For sixty years Pak fouj has been scaring people of Pakistan that India is about to get them. But army itself was in the process of looting the country. Now you want to scare us again that Swat/ FATA problem is a US conspiracy?

    Good luck this time. FATA and Swat people are at the same stage where Bengalis were 35 years ago. Army was the culprit then and Army is the wrongdoer now. This time we are not emotionally attcached to your land of the priviliged.

  • Avatar Image
    Ashraf said:

    @Sal

    General Musharraf took a wrong turn on March 9th, 2007. I simply ignored it. Did not even follow Pakistani politics and news. But afterward, he grossly mis-stepped one after another. I was astonished, how a sensible person and a popular leader could make series of illogical decisions.

    Today, I got my answer; definitely, he got the badd’dua (curse) of this woman Amana Masood in this video, her children and many others. People like you may not believe in it but there is a higher Deity. He is has His ways of conducting justice.

    On the pragmatic note, I would not be surprised if this boy without shalwar would be driving a suicide car bomb and later on police claiming that they were right in kidnapping his father.

  • SHAHID ALI said:

    Hunger can be felt only by hungry! How can General Musharaf and his poodels feel and share the sorrow and agony of these people? After seeing this eye opening documentary, I just didn’t cry, but my heart and soul is is helplessly and hopelessly crying. After seeing such hedious and henious incidents, no Pakistani has right to live in Pakistan. My stomach is full of disgust for the relentless brutalities unleashed on the poor and innocent. Being helpless, I just raise my hands and pray to God that all missing individuals meet their beloved families before a blink of an eye.

  • zenith said:

    Just saw Ik’s conference on geo. He tore his nomination papers in front o camera and said that he will nt contest in these electons. As much as i respect, I think he has shown political immaturity. Now he asked BB and NSto do the same. I think pml-Q and ppp will win the game at the end that is if ppp contests these elections, which iam pretty sure they will.

  • shawn said:

    Illegal detentions are never acceptable. But for the time being, just think about it. If someone has been involved in the terrorism, what would you do? take him to the court? try him? how long? we know our courts. Realistically, it takes years to conclude a case. to grant bail is real easy. what if you release a real terrorist bailing him? i am not taking sides, just asking you what is the guaranty that such people will live safe?what is an alternate to avoid suicide attacks by stupid terrorists? what about the death of millions of innocent people in such attacks? I say being religious is not a crime, but even knowing a terrorist and not pointing out to law enforcing agencies is a Bid crime. Is it better to keep 400 people in jails or bailing out a bunch of terrorists who eill kill millions of innocent people? I need your opinion.

  • Abnormal said:

    @Sal

    I am very sorry bro! your disease is incurable. You can criticize NS, BB etc, I dont mind but you did not even bother to say anything of sympathy for that young boy and that girl.

    Leave it who is wrong or right, just tell me what would you have done if your kids were beaten by police like that ?

  • Umar said:

    Today’s Muslim has lost his character. I am sure Musharraf didn’t ask those policemen to take that poor kid’s pant out. It is so shameful. How can a muslim do that to anyone, forget about doing that to another Muslim? It is not a problem of just Musharraf, the army and the intelligence agencies. It is a problem with our nation. We are far away from our deen.

    May Allah give us hidayah

  • Zia Gondal (Korea) said:

    @Umar
    I agree with you. How come any of us can do this sort of things if we have even a little WILL to follow the teachings of our religion.
    – That is the grace of judiciary if it is inplace. But unfortunately we could have seen only few sparks of that real enlightenment and then that source of hope was pushed behind the bars. Think if we are having free judiciary even this act of brutality can be taken to court and such a system can ensure a very peaceful society in short time.

  • nota said:

    @Shawn
    No it is not better to keep innocent 400 people in jail.
    No one is saying let terrorists go. Prosecute them but under the LAW. Or are you saying your laws are no good? If so, then FIX them. Or are you saying you have no good evidence against those “terrorists”. Then are they terrorists just because you think they are? By the same reasoning, most westerners this all Muslims are terrorists. Should we incarcerate them all and torture them till they confess??

  • nota said:

    @shawn
    And by the way, no so-called terrorist or even a terrorist organization has come close to kill millions of people. Sure millions have been killed but by people we reward, honor, sing songs in their praise, and give them Nobel Peace Prize. Take Bush, Clinton, GW, Harry Truman, Sharon, Hitler, Lenin, and the biggest murderer of all times: Henry Kissinger (know of a recent genocide? Be sure Henry had a hand in it)… WHat did Osama do? maybe killed ~2500.

    So who should I be scard of?

  • nota said:

    @shawn
    Since my last comment is awaiting moderation, let me ask you: Name one terr*orist who has killed “millions”.
    “Honorable” people do that. Those guilty of above have names like B*sh, Truman, GW, and the biggest murd*r*r of all times: Henry K*ssinger (know of a recent genocide? Be sure Henry had a hand in it)
    These guys don’t get thrown in prison. They get Nobel Peace Prizes…

  • op said:

    @nota
    All muslims are definitely not terrorists but most terrorists are muslims.

  • shawn said:

    @ Sal/ Nota
    I agree with both of you 100%. but you still didnt answer my question. are you saying its better to kill millions of innocent people?
    i agree that most of the times there is no evidence against those who are detained, but do u think our intelligence is inefficient? It is one of the best in the world. believe me. they are inefficient in a way that they fail to collect concrete evidence against them and act mostly on the intelligence force who should not be named in the court to maintain secrecy . our law is faulty, and thus they are kept illegal. But some of them must have been arrested for a reason. We have to protect our nation from serious attacks. we have to prevent our country from being given bad name. I have few suggestions:

    1. Keep our borders strict. Allow no illegal immigrations.
    2. Only highly experienced law enforcement personnel should be employed at borders.
    3. Deport all the illegal immigrants
    4. Army should not be allowed to interfere in politics and concentrate on their job.
    5. Bring new politicians like IK and of lawyers (who are educated)like Aitzaz Ahsan, Malik, Kurd, journalists,and social activists.
    6. I agree to extent that those missing persons should atleast be allowed to see their families.

    This is absolutely wrong concept that West thinks all muslims are terrorists. Tell me why lawyers and civilians in US and Europe marched against atrocities being committed agains lawyers and journalists in Pakistan?
    There are millions of muslims working in every walk of life in US and other parts of the west. None of them is arrested. Only those were arrested who were pointed by Pakistani agencies.

  • Abbas Mujahid said:

    Was that 16 year boy released???? I feel like my heart will explode. I am ashamed of being living here. May Allah give these people Hidaya and mayy they burn these so called leaders burn in the worst part of hell.

  • Zia Gondal (Korea) said:

    One should also go through the article of Qazi Hussain regarding background of IJT etc:
    ————————————-

    http://www.express.com.pk/epaper/index.aspx?Issue=NP_LHE&Page=Editorial_PAGE&Date=20071127&Pageno=12&View=1%20id=

  • shawn said:

    Do you know?

    Afghanistan was first to oppose creation of Pakistan.
    Iraq was more inclined to India and it favoured India in Indo_pakistan war.
    Afghani immigrants to pakistan sold klashinkovs to pakistani people, sold Herion to pakistanis, bringing drug culture and terrorism. Did you ever hear of heroin and use of klashinkov in seventees?
    These arms are still being used in ethnic and secterian violence in pakistan against pakistani muslims by the muslims. They have smuggled alcohol, and prostitutes here.
    Why it is always duty of pakistani to support other muslim countries in their fight?
    where were they when India attacked pakistan?
    Instead of crying for and helping them we should help our country. we should help our lawyers and journalists and civil societies to bring freedom to our coutry against a dictator. I read in newspapers that people from pakistan were supporting foriegners and giving them asylum. May I ask why?

  • nota said:

    @op
    Lame :)

    @shawn:
    1. Keep our borders strict. Allow no illegal immigrations.
    If I am to believe US official story, rhen remember NONE of the 9/11 perpetrators were in US illegally. Same goes for 7/7 london :) (and do watch the “Ludicrous Diversion” documentary – is available on YouTube/GoogleVideo)

    2. Only highly experienced law enforcement personnel should be employed at borders.
    Still that would have not prevented the events mentioned in (1)

    3. Deport all the illegal immigrants
    Same meaningless non-solution as above 2 points.

    4. Army should not be allowed to interfere in politics and concentrate on their job.
    That’s all we ask for.

    5. Bring new politicians like IK and of lawyers (who are educated)like Aitzaz Ahsan, Malik, Kurd, journalists,and social activists.
    Can’t ask for more :)

    6. I agree to extent that those missing persons should atleast be allowed to see their families.
    At the very least!

    “There are millions of muslims working in every walk of life in US and other parts of the west. None of them is arrested. ”
    This is simply not true. Since 9/11 there hasn’t been a week when some paintball playing guys were not splashed on the evening news as “another terrorist cell busted.” And as long as you toe the “party line” you are OK. As long as they dont play paintball or take pictures of buildings and look at someone funny, they are OK. I could point you to a hundred examples but I am sure you can do the search yourself. Here is some help:
    http://www.google.com.pk/search?q=terrorist+cell+busted&btnG=Search&hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial
    and scroll through.

    By the way, who has killed more people? Terrorists or your “statesmen”? You did not answer so I thought I’d ask again.

  • BABU from USA said:

    VERY VERY SAD TO SEE SUCH POLICE BRUTALITY.
    ALSO LISTEN TO TWO DUM MINISTERS AND ONE STUPID F.O. LADY.

    I HOPE REAL INDEPENDENT JUDICIARY RESTORES AND LEGAL CJ WILL CONTINUE HIS TERM.

    ALL THOSE WHO ARE INVOLVED IN ANY BRUTALITY AGAINST INNOCENT PEOPLE MUST BE SEVERLY PUNISHED, SO OTHERS GET THE LESSON.

    I WISH MUSH AND HIS LOVERS GET THE JUSTICE HERE IN THIS WORLD. (AMEEN)

  • shawn said:

    @nota
    i am not saying bush, mush, etc are my “statesmen”. I am just saying our first priority should be to bring stability to pakistan. i am not worried about other countries. Regarding arrests of muslims in western countries, they were arrested on suspicion and later released. i think they have right to arrest anyone who they suspect might have connections. 9/11 was not a joke.it is the biggest in the history. and unfortunately, the blame went to muslims. unfortunately some muslims praised it. thats sad. Islam is the religion of peace and we have to prove it by conduct. likewise we have also right to arrest those who do same to our country. how many people got killed in BB procession? How many suicide attacks/ bomb attacks occured in recent days? Do you think govt has no right to even investigate or do detentions for that purpose?
    What if someone does that to your innocent family/friends?

  • missing_pakistan said:

    Whom to blame??

    Musharraf?

    USA??

    Pakistani awam?

    Condition of muslims??

    How can anyone be that brutal, how can these ppl sell their fellow country men to US.

    What should we do??

    Any plan of action??

    Should we contact local congressman, and ask them raise voice against this injustice in Pakistan?

    Shouldn’t we pray Qunoot e naazila??

    Should each and everyone of us do the self-evaluation, and fix ourselves?

    What should we do?????

    This is just too much, I can’t imagine how much psychotic that little girl must be right now.And how many other brothers and sisters are oppressed by this zulm.

  • nota said:

    @shawn:
    “What if someone does that to your innocent family/friends?”

    Exactly. Now apply it to yourself. What if they suspect your brother/father/mother or sister of terrorism? And for taking pictures? And they disappear without you knowing where they are, what charges are against them? And after years of torture they say: You are innocent. Are you really comfortable with that?

    I think it is d*sgusting to keep bringing up those 9/11 victims and compare it to more than a million killed in Iraq alone since then who had nothing to do with it. Are you suggesting they were all terrorists? And your killing hasn’t stopped. So please take this b*ll and sh*ve it. We need none of your morality.

  • bing said:

    @ shawn

    u r a perfect example of what they want to make of all of us. you will give up all rights just to get a false sense of security. who knows if the husband of that woman really was involved in terrorism or not. where is he? what crime has he commited? what is the harm in telling the family about his location and charges? atleast give the man a fair trial. but I know you will not agree , not until they pick up someone from your family

  • shawn said:

    You got me wrong actually. I am not saying detention of people that way is right, if you read my previous messages. I am also sorry the way police treated them. its shameful. i am not taking govt side.
    Instead of crying and cursing, you could have come up with some better solution to this problem. You are saying ” lets arrest no one unless proved beyond all reasonable doubts” i would have agreed it it was a simple crime. Our intelligentia are no fools.why would they take mine or your family? thats the proof they havent picked up any of your family member since they know they are innocent beyond doubt. everybody has right to express his/her opinion.
    know what? nota, thats our problem. they way you are reacting. you can not listen anything against your opinion. instead of giving a solution , you are cursing me. so what is the difference between you, bush and mush?

  • nota said:

    @shawn
    I bet you ask yourself “Why do they h^te us?”

    Well, see a PARTIAL list of victims of US Foreign Policy:
    http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa06.html
    (no, these numbers are not exaggerated, actually quite the opposite)

    And please do read “American Empire for Dummies” by William Blum at http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=2517, that is if you can handle the truth.
    Excerpt:
    “The State Department recently held a conference on how to improve America’s image abroad in order to reduce the level of hatred; image is what they’re working on, not change of policies. But the policies scorecard reads as follows: From 1945 to the end of the century, the United States attempted to overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populist movements fighting against insufferable regimes. In the process, the US bombed about 25 countries, caused the end of life for several million people, and condemned many millions more to a life of agony and despair.

    “If I were the president, I could stop terrorist attacks against the United States in a few days. Permanently. I would first apologize — very publicly and very sincerely — to all the widows and orphans, the tortured and impoverished, and all the many millions of other victims of American imperialism. Then I would announce that America’s global interventions have come to an end and inform Israel that it is no longer the 51st state of the union but — believe it or not — a foreign country. I would then reduce the military budget by at least 90% and use the savings to pay reparations to our victims and repair the damage from our bombings. There would be enough money. Do you know what one year’s military budget is equal to? One year. It’s equal to more than $20,000 per hour for every hour since Jesus Christ was born. That’s what I’d do on my first three days in the White House. On the fourth day, I’d be assassinated.”

  • nota said:

    @shawn
    No it is not just “an” opinion of mine. I am also of an opinion the sun rises from the east and stubborn enough not to listen to anyone saying something different. :)

    You cannot have a solution to a problem if you don’t even know what the problem really is. As far as a solution is concerned, well, I like Mr. Blum’s. Do you?

  • bing said:

    @ shawn

    I am pretty sure you have family in the army to keep such naive and childish views about the ISI. an agency which is totallr free from law and regulation and is “awarded money” based on how many people it can hand over to the US and i quote mush “anyone who questions our commitment to the war on terrorism, should ask the CIA how much award money it has given us”
    no one is cursing you.you are brain washed and need to open your eyes.

  • Yusuf said:

    Indeed sad! May Allah have mercy on us all. But what I see from all the comments is a confused picture.
    1. These extra-judicial ‘kidnappings’ may be true. I cannot say anything. I have no proof for either.
    2. All I can guess is that some may be wrongfully detained. How many? Maybe 50% or maybe 99%. cannot say.
    3. What I know is that agencies have been doing this since the beginning. Whether under military or civilian governments.
    4. What I have read and seen, it is being myopic by mentioning President, CJP, Army, etc. I am sure neither one has ever checked with the agency’s operations !
    5. It just seems that US wants (1) Access to Central Asian oil (2) Block off China and Russia to warm waters (3) stop Pak’s nuclear capability (4) get better hold of Muslim region around the gulf.
    6. What better way than to capture NWFP, Baluchistan and Afganistan and destabilize/dismantle pakistan (god forbid).
    7. All that with India and Israel both more than eager to help on this front.
    8. Why articles on Pahtoonistan in newweek, and similar media campaigns against Pakistan?
    9. I do not see ANYONE out there who can hold on for Pakistan. Nor BB not NS not anyone.
    10. Whether we like it or not, it only a strong Army with the hold on nuclear capability that can prevent things.
    11. What better way, apart from all out war, to paralyze the army? to turn people againmst the army?

    Let’s make our decesions ourselves and ask Allah for guidance.

  • shawn said:

    let me ask you a question.
    How many people were standing there when boy’s trousers were removed? how many dared to put those on him? how many tried to save that woman? they were just watching them insulted right? is this our character and we are worried about iraq/ afghan? please dont worry about iraq/ arabs. If you have lived in some arab country/ iraq you would know how much they love pakistanis. they treat them like a sh*t.
    how many muslims supported us against indian attacked us? you are worried about US govt hating muslims but look first to your muslims. better look first to your country. how our own police treat us?

  • nota said:

    Here’s a better link for those interested in reading “American Empire for Dummies” as it has the complete article on one page:
    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/American_Empire_Dummies.html

  • pejamistri said:

    In “War and Peace” , Leo Tolstoy showed that historians look at the war from 30,000 feet above, they look at the outcome of the war in terms of the actions of war leaders. However the course of war is decided not because of the actions of leaders instead it is decided based on the actions of hunderds of thousands of those human beings who are considered as fodder of the war.
    In this war in Pakistan, I think the course will be decided by the people who are suffering , I am praying Amna Janjua and her companions along with thousands of lawyers, human right activists and civil society members do not loose heart and keep their struggle alive against all the odds. I know how much despair there will be for the relatives of missing people after the removal of CJ but let us keep this struggle alive , let us not accept what is happening, we need to keep going, these are testing times….

  • nota said:

    One more for you shawn:
    “Is the United States Against Terrorism?
    Are we now to believe that the American Empire is against terrorism? What does one call a man who blows up an airplane killing 73 civilians for political reasons; who attempts assassinations against several diplomats; who fires cannons at ships docked in American ports; who places bombs in numerous commercial and diplomatic buildings in the US and abroad? Dozens of such acts. His name is Orlando Bosch, he’s Cuban and he lives in Miami, unmolested by the authorities. The city of Miami once declared a day in his honor-Dr. Orlando Bosch Day. He was freed from prison in Venezuela in 1988, where he had been held for the airplane bombing, partly because of pressure from the American ambassador at the time, Otto Reich, who in 2002 was appointed to a high position in the State Department by President Bush.”

    Excerpt from “The American Empire: 1992 to present” from the book “Killing Hope” by William Blum
    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/American_Empire_KH2004.html

  • Tanweer Amjad said:

    O’Allah save me, my family and all friends and their families from all types of miseries or even tests. We are not so strong believer even to think of them. Please give us peace and keep us free from all the miseries inside and outside the country.
    I suspect villain has normally a very long life and has full authority to make all his tortures and vicious plans come true. But this makes me think, if a person can think of himself so authoritative, so strong, why shouldn’t we believe that the Creator ought to be the Most Authoritative. If we try to move in the right direction now, He will not leave us alone. Let us all join hands and strenghten the pillars of the society by supporting them physically, morally and financially. We should think ourselves as a system and should start from the pillars. No one can stop us to join media, journalists, lawyers, politicians whom we could trust.

  • nota said:

    Kind of related is the ACLU documentary “Beyond the Patriot Act” which is also a must-see. Here’s a link to its page:
    http://www.aclu.tv/episodes/patriotact?PHPSESSID=5e10ca520bdbaf1f275946b1b4d560ef
    You can read about it and watch a trailer there and watch the complete documentary on Google Video at http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3067345375441230238&hl=en

  • atif said:

    I think our govt people are forget they will give answer to Allah not mushraf i have no world to write here after see this programe

    please please Allah save my countray and my nation

    my all emotation whit those family miss the person

    i apology those family on behalf of my nation

  • Naumeed said:

    @Yusuf

    So you think Pakistan will be more safe from US/India/Israel by arresting and kidnapping children of 16 years?

    Remember our biggest enemy is our myopic nature.

    If we establish rule of law where people get justice (I do hope you know the meaning of this word) If we have democracy so that people choose their leadership then people will be united and STAND behind the govt in case of external problems.

    But to suppress our own citizens by raising the bogie of external threat is simply not done.

    Just look accross the border to India. During Kargil our Army captured kargil. Indian army was sleeping. But when they realised the problem the entire nation rallied behind Indian leadership. (Do you know that cost of Kargil war for India was 2500 crore rupees and Indian people voluntarily contributed close to 3800 crore rupees for their defence fund). Whereas on our side the killer of Northern Light Infantry (Musharraf) removed the elected leader. People were confused. Noone was telling the truth.

    Our socalled “mitti ke sher” army did not accept bodies of our soldiers killed in Kargil.

    So the strength of a nation is not its agencies rather it is its people.

    If people are happy in a nation, if they are educated, if they get justice then the nation is strong. In all surveys more than 85% of philipine population is found to be optimistic. Why ? because they have rule of law. Their police cannot humiliate its citizens.

    If there is problem with courts or law against terrorism then what stops us from making law.

    Obviously our leaders spend months on “chor-chor bhai-bhai” NRO.

    But to arrest and torture someone without charge is CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY.

    Did youu see the frightened faces of the two journalists who were freed after 3 months of torture?

    What a shame that our army feels happy by beating our own citizens, torturing them, kidnapping them.

    It is not an army of a nation but a gang of murderers. ISI is a gang of cut throats and both must be dismantled gradually and new forces created with strict control over them by civilian government.

  • shawn said:

    @ nota
    Do you know?
    Pakistan is still paying a heavy price for providing shelter to afghan refugees who have always h*ted pakistan and loved and supported india in any war against pakistan. I hope you know about the durrand line.
    Afghanistan was first to oppose creation of Pakistan.
    Iraq also was more inclined to India and it favoured India in Indo_pakistan war.
    Afghani immigrants to pakistan sold klash*nkovs to pakistani people, sold Her*ion to pakistanis, bringing drug culture and terrorism. Did you ever hear of her*in and use of kla*hinkov in seventees?
    These arms are still being used in ethnic and secterian v*olence in pakistan against pakistani muslims by the muslims. They have smuggled alc*hol, and pro*titutes here.
    Why it is “always� duty of pakistani to support other muslim countries in their fight? Isn’t it one sided?
    where were the muslim countries when India attacked pakistan?
    Instead of crying for and helping them we should help our country. we should help our lawyers and journalists and civil societies to bring freedom to our country against a dictator. I read in newspapers that people from pakistan were supporting foriegners and giving them asylum. May I ask why? Why don’t you support your poor Pakistani brothers instead? we should also trust our army instead of cursing them. It is this army that has kept you safe against neighbours attack. mind it!

  • Naumeed said:

    @Shawn

    Pakistan was created in the name of Islam. It is suppossed to be home for all muslims. So we need to help other muslim countries.

    And it was not afgans who brought kalashnikov in pakistan. It was CIA and our own ISI.

    Our own ISI controlled drug trade to supply weapon and finance war in kashmir (It is open secret and no point in denying it).

    So it is not afgans but our own Army responsible for gun culture. (They needed cannon fodder in anti-soviet war).

    It is not afgans but ISI who started and controlled the narcotics trade. All major mujahid warlords were puppets of ISI.

    Even taliban were created and controlled by our army.

    Moreover India has not attacked us. It is another lie spread by the army. Our own army along with tribes in frontier attacked Kashmir in 1947. Our army attacked India in Rann of Kutch and Kashmir in 1965, Our airforce attacked India in 1971, our army attacked India in Kargil.

    So please realise the truth. India is not the enemy. It is our own feudalistic setup and our Army and our own ISI.

    These are monsters we should eliminate to make our country developed.

  • iD said:

    This is enough for me to hate Musharaf

  • Naumeed said:

    Donot just hate Musharraf. He is just one face of establishment. Realist the truth.

    It is ISI and Army (that runs businesses, property dealing and also controls our government by rigging elections) which is biggest enemy of our people.

    Our army has no respect for people’s decision so they constantly rig the elections.

    It is time for them to go in to barracks.

  • nota said:

    @shawn
    Quit it. YOu have nothing to offer so you come up with this tr*sh. No ones buying it. So what if Afghanistan has never supported us; that does not give us the right to bomb them to smithereens. About AK-47s and pr*st*tutes and drugs, Naumeed has already answered you.
    “Why it is “alwaysâ€? duty of pakistani to support other muslim countries in their fight? Isn’t it one sided?” BECAUSE they are our brothers and sisters and are Muslims and not selfish when it comes to that. Y*u r*ally are a bl**dy r*cist but of course you won’t believe it :) So shoo away and go hide behind the Durand line :p

  • Amir said:

    If this is the independance we don’t need this independance, we would be better off under the british rule.

  • Naumeed said:

    @nota
    Gulshan is just taunting I believe. Afterall what he say is what we have been doing in the past.

  • Naumeed said:

    @Gulshan

    You are wrong. Our army raped and killed not thousands but millions. According to the latest research the figure is close to 3 million.

    In all respects our army is many times worst than german Nazis. Afterall Nazis killed 6 million in 6 years and our army killed 3 million civilians in 8 months.

  • Naumeed said:

    We need new army, old judiciary and new secret services.

  • Tipu said:

    Perhaps we need such indegenous efforts for justice…

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7068875.stm

    Tipu

  • Rough Idea said:

    If someone mised this one, spare some time and watch this http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331

    it has some pk ISI stories in middle

  • MYA said:

    lanat ho aise police per ju apne hi citizen per zulm kero. Ghuda gharat kerey in zalimoon ko… this is disgusting. this is embarrasing. Is this the true face of society? i am ashamed and i am embarassad so much today. what a pity on us, the pakistani nation…. we are seeing every bit of zulm around us and still we are keeping quite.. and still those zaleel hukmraan are ruling us.

    This attitude of our nation has reminded me many of hitorical nations disgusting moral grounds that holy Quran has depicted very clealy. today i am feeling that we are also among one of those nations (if not the worst among them)…

    shame on you mush, shame on you wasi and shame on those who support these zalims…

    shame on us(including me), the pakistan nation, who are still quite and watching this infront of our gunahgaar eyes….

  • farooq said:

    http://www.ummat.com.pk/Report.ummat.com.pk/26112007-Misc_Reports/ReportSaeedAhmed-26112007.html

    Read and decide who we are …. and how sense less we have become.

  • Gulshan said:

    @Naumeed
    I can’t belive it. I am pleasantly shocked. Honestly, I had prepared myself to receive comments with uncivil language and calling me agents of the devil. You have proved me wrong and I am glad you did. Now I can believe that Pakistan is changing for the better and will be a country it was supposed to be.
    May Allah bless you with the strength to be on side of the truth. That is the real spirituality. We must agree and disagree with one another based upon our convictions and should rise above the controlled environment prescribed to us by the Allah’s Agents (clergy). A highly evolved soul (true saint) has said, “Truthfulness is the foundation of all human virtues”.
    May we all have that strength.

  • nota said:

    @farooq
    I’m afraid we are a lot worse than that…

  • faraz said:

    what a start to the day. i feel ashamed for doing nothing except to write few lines for those who are suffering .we all knew these things were happening for a long time. it is us who dont want to see or beleave the truth. how could peoples in waziristan and other parts of pakistan trust this govt. for any compromise when they experienced of being betrayed many many times. good to see NS is a changed person up to now . it is a brave brave thing to say a single sentence against the US he knows where the problem lies unlike BB who is ready to send invitaion letter to the US to come and to do anything they like. only we pakistanis can bring change in pakistan through understanding, dialogue & brotherhood whether it is NWFP or balochistan or any other place. i hope NS is not an opportunist but i feel he is better than others. great job admin for posting the video.

  • faraz said:

    what a start to the day. i feel ashamed for doing nothing except to write few lines for those who are suffering .we all knew these things were happening for a long time. it is us who dont want to see or beleave the truth. how could peoples in waziristan and other parts of pakistan trust this govt. for any compromise when they experienced of being betrayed many many times. good to see NS is a changed person up to now . it is a brave brave thing to say a single sentence against the US he knows where the problem lies unlike BB who is ready to send invitaion letter to the US to come and to do anything they like. only we pakistanis can bring change in pakistan through understanding, dialogue & brotherhood whether it is NWFP or balochistan or any other place. i hope NS is not an opportunist but i feel he is better than others. great job boss for posting the video.

  • Naumeed said:

    @Gulshan,

    Did you notice my userID. It is Naumeed. I have no hope. Pakistan is going to be destroyed soon and here is my prediction.

    1. Musharraf becomes civilian president.
    2. Using his chamcha Kiyani elections are rigged to favour BB, Fazlu, PML-Q and against Nawaz. It shall result in a hung assembly.
    3. BB + PML-Q + Fazlu form a coalition.
    4. Nawaz is in opposition.
    5. In next 3years Musharraf becomes weak and is removed.
    6. Poverty rises, inflation becomes very high and people are fed up because of mismanagement in 3 years.
    7. New president dismissed the govt.
    8. Another hung assembly for 3-4 years.
    9. Army comes back to power.
    10. Pakistani provinces revolt and pakistan breaks up in Sindh, Balochistan, Frontier and Punjab.

    The only way out of this mess: Dismantle ISI, Kick our army in barracks, Neutral govt under old judiciary, free and fair elections and national government of Nawaz + BB.

    But this will not happen.

  • pejamistri said:

    Those who were born after 1970 or were kids at that time, will not know something called “Operation Searchlight”, an estimated 300,000 people were systematically killed. Read here
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Searchlight

    Also do not forget “operation silence” and “operation balochistan” and “operation in swat” , although enemy has changed but our army is the same, doing same atrocities.

  • jojo said:

    May Allah put all of us on right path, aameen.

  • pejamistri said:

    “Kill three million of them, and the rest will eat out of our hands” Yahya Khan
    “This is not 70, they would not know what hit them” Pervez Musharraf
    “Sab Maray jain gay.. mein keh raha hoon sab maray jain gay” Pervez Musharraf
    “All will be killed , I am telling them all will be killed”

  • Avatar Image
    admin said:

    The Video can now be download from the link on top of the video

    Admin

  • Naumeed said:

    The truth of our brave army. What really happened in operation searchlight

  • nota said:

    @Naumeed
    You are an optimist compared to me :(

  • K Khan said:

    Today, Instead of being proud, I fell ashamed of being Pakistani.

    The way they took off the pujama of young child infront of his mother and sister. I used to see it in Pakistani movies about indian army in Kashmir but I never knew that pakistani police could do this even in Islamabad. Shame one Pak Police and shame on Pak Army and Shame on you Mr Musharaf.

    Just to remind everyone that everyone have to die one day and there will be the judgment day.

    K Khan

  • Tipu said:

    @ Shawn..
    you wrote “Our intelligentia are no fools.why would they take mine or your family? thats the proof they havent picked up any of your family member since they know they are innocent beyond doubt.”

    you are saying that the fact thay your or my family has not been affected its a proof that intelligence agency are picking up only the guilty people. How naive? There is a imple reason for this. Did you not notice what kind of people were being snathed? Lower class people. You and I who have some connections, havea ccess to education and media will no be an easy target.

    I am sure you will at-least not deny that police in pakistan tortures unlawfully. Now, I will not be surprised that yours and mine families have not been tortured by police but can that be an argument to say that police is fine?

    Tipu

  • zul said:

    The most important thing which pakistan needs is the rule of law.The only solution to all these problems is free judiciary.
    Thats why we the youth support Imran Khan because he is the only man who is really working for the rule of law.

  • jamil Vancouver/Canada said:

    What a reckless evil.Very shameful images.
    A very impressive attempt to raise voice over the issue of missing people.
    I will spread this video to the others.
    I like to shout like amina and tell every body what nasty things are going on in Pakistan. A group of shameless persons have ruin our country and its innocent people.
    May Allah help us all

  • K Khan said:

    I copied the piece of text from operation searchlight by Pak Army against Bangal which created Bangladesh.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Searchlight

    Let me change some of text to make it look like current situation.

    Requirements for Success

    1. The military will launch the operation simultaneously all across Banga– (Pakistan).
    2. Maximum number of political and student leaders, and those among cultural organizations and teaching staff to be arrested.
    5. All internal and international communications will be cut off including Telephones, TV, Radios, Telegraphs, transmitters.

    7. To deceive the Awami League, Yahia Khan (Musharaf) may pretend to continue the dialogue (with opposition), even if Mr. Bhutto (opposition) disagrees, agree to Awami League (Govt) demands .

  • GHAZI said:

    I WILL LIKE TO SHARE WITH YOU ONE STORY OF A MISSING PERSON. HE WAS BASICALLY A PAKISTANI AND A DOCTOR BY PROFESSION IN MALAYSIA. HE HAD COME TO PAKISTAN ON A 2 YEAR DEPUTATION. DURING HIS STAY HERE HE CAME TO GET IN LOVE WITH A DAUGHTER OF A BRIGADIER WHO UNFORTUNATELY WAS IN ISI. WHEN THE BRIG CAME TO KNOW ALL THIS HE ORDERED THE ABDUCTION OF THAT MAN AND HE WENT MISSING FOR LIKE 8 MONTHS AND WAS TORTURED IN A SAFE HOUSE IN LAHORE. THE CJ HAD ORDERED HIS RELEASE AND ON THE NEXT HEARING OF THE MISSING PERSONS CASE HE WAS TO BE PRODUCED BUT UNFORTUNATELY THE CJ IS NO MORE IN THE COURT……

    THIS IS HOW ISI HAS USED ITS POWERS FOR PERSONAL GAINS. AS I SAID IN MY EARLIER POST LAST NIGHT TOMMOROW KIYANI IS TAKING OFF FROM MUSHARAF SO ONE B**TARD GOES ANOTHER COMES……… DONT EXPECT ANYTHING GOOD FROM KIYANI BECUASE WHATEVER HE WANTED HE WILL GET IT TOMMOROW……..

  • GHAZI said:

    KIYANI IS TAKING OVER*

  • Aneeza said:

    Further baighairti of usharraf and his cronies:

    http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=11402

  • hafiz said:

    all i just want to say that we as a nation have become selfish . we dont feel the pain of others . where is those people who support musharraf ?
    dont they see this tyrany by armed and uniformed gangs

    i was just thinking that if this happens to me or my brother then what will i do?
    but i cudnt give myself an answer

    wake up pakistanis………

  • faraz said:

    Please visit the site and you will love it

    http://www.quranflash.com/quranflash.html

  • MYA said:

    This is so much embarrassing… what a shameful nation we have become just becomes of the tyrant army rules who do everything against their powerless nation.

    one thing everyone is forgetting is that these dictators can never be successful unless and until they people like wasi zafar, Sheikh Rashid, Justice Malik Qayyum justice dogar, sher afgun, sharifudin pirzada, and the list will go on and on (this is shameful too). we must get rid of these mir jafars inside our society and then we may be able to get rid of these tyrants.

    Als! God we dont want military. we may be more free and protected without these brutal people.

  • pejamistri said:

    Munir Malik roaring on Geo, he is so weak, but I am sure mad general will still have his pants wet after hearing him.
    “3 november wali situation bahal hoogi”

  • Syed said:

    Politicians are only doing posturing. We must struggle for restoration of the judiciary to pre-3 Nov position and complete restoration of constitution. That is the only way to save the country from the Beghairat Army and beghairat politicians. If we as a nation need a ‘danda’, that might well come from the SC rather than anyone else. Restore the judiciary and there is some hope.

  • nota said:

    @hafiz
    “where is those people who support musharraf? dont they see this tyrany by armed and uniformed gangs”

    WE are the people who support Musharraf be it by in-action, be it by staying quiet when we should be yelling and screaming bloody murder. We support him when we hob-knob with his cronies, feel proud getting invited to Chaudhry’s son’s wedding, play golf with an industrialist who has billions in loans written off; we support him when we congratulate our uncle for getting a PML-Q ticket; we support him when we don’t boycott a once-national asset that was sold to his cronie or foreign government for pennies on the dollar; we support him when we visit our cousin Major in his new house gifted to him by Mush and say how lovely it is; we support him when we proudly marry our daughter to a General’s son thinking she will be well taken care of and knowing in the back of our mind none of his wealth was acquired deservedly….

    I could go on and on but let me just stop here.

  • Syed said:

    Restoration of judiciary means that no noe will be able to be a scoundrel agin inl the Generals and the politicians. Must rememebr what happened to the SC when NS was the PM and the person who has won the title of Beghairat-e- Azam Qayyaum (the AG) was appointed by BB!

  • nota said:

    @Aneeza
    “President can accept all demands but one”

    I only have that ONE demand :)

  • pejamistri said:

    The biggest crime of CJ Iftikhar Chaudary was taking the police to task, I know that it was a very quiet revolution going on in Pakistan, he institued cases against several big police officers. He used to snub IG/DIG’s in the court and taking lead many other Judges were also doing the same , I know Justice Khwaja Sharif, Javaid Iqbal, Justice Sabihuddin in Sind were following CJ in this respect.
    Several police officers were awarded punishment and many others were suspended.
    And I know CJ is very pragmatic he was not a revolutionary, he kept giving time to agencies, but I remember he threatened to do the same with intelligence chiefs which he was doing with police chiefs.

  • Syed said:

    I have some medals for the following individuals:

    Honorable Cheif Justice of Pakistan Mr. Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Ch.
    Nishan-e- Pakistan and Nishan-e- Shuja’at

    All the judges of the superior judiciary who did not take oath under the PCO on 3rdNov07.
    Nishan-e- Shuja’at and Nishan-e- Imtiaz

    All the Advocates Supreme Court who were arrested by Mush.
    Hial-e-Shuja’at

    In addition Aitezaz Ahsan, Munir A Malik & Ali Ahmed Kurd Advocate
    Nishan-e- Shuja’at
    All lawyers who were or are being arrested by Mush puppets
    Hilal-e-Imtiaz

    The people of pakistan have stripped President of Pakistan General Pervez Musharraf of Imtiazi Sanad, Tamgha-e- Basalat and Nishan-e-Pakistan and he has been awarded two new medals called:
    Nishan-e-Beghairat and Sitara-e-Buzdil

  • Syed said:

    The same two medals are being awarded to all the Corps and Div commanders as well other formation commanders of Pakistan Army

  • Syed said:

    To change the sombre mood here Fazlu ki shan mai chand asha’ar (the first stanza was sent yesterday as well)
    Makar-o-Faraib ki Andhi hai
    Jhoot Ka Chalta Jhakkar hai
    Parrh Surah Bechay Qur’an
    Maulana Fazul-ur-Rehman
    Dekhnay Say dar lagta hai
    Samp say milta julta hai
    Mullah siasat ki hai shan
    Maulana Fazul-ur-Rehman
    Har Amir ka chamcha hai
    Jurnailon ka agent hai
    Pait bara hai lumbi zuban
    Maulana Fazul-ur-Rehman

    (in the misra ‘Jurnailon ka—-’, I wanted to write the name of a najis animal but then Allah’s name stops me from doing that. Actually that is what he is!). Like every shair I need positive feedback. This is the only website getting the hasbay hal shairi from me.

  • imran said:

    iam feeling shame being a pakistani i wish i would not be a pakistani the police man who pulling two girls’ hair was nothging less than a beast
    shame on me and all of those pakistanies who were watching this whole unbearable scene

  • irfan said:

    you know, history keeps on repeating itself but us pakis have a poor memory.
    Zia brought a puppet junejo….got too arrogant, got killed.
    We elect these prime ministers who are really corrupt and are as worse as any dictator. people get frustrated. another military ruler comes in. and the cycle continures.
    its time to elect some one different…..imran khan is the answer.

  • MYA said:

    after watching this video, this article makes me feel good today

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2007/11/071127_nawaz_judges_as.shtml

  • Adeel said:

    Assalam o Alikum dear All
    First of all we have to look why it is happening with us?why rulers like Musharraf are forced on us?i think when we are going away from Allah’Dee.Daily we see Allahs Hadood being broken by us and by our rulers.Allah has also given us a way to live our countries that is His Sharia.Then who is stopping us to put Allah,s Law at this land called pakistan??? we have to think and act.May Allah have His mercy on muslim Ummah.May Allah help Deen e Muhammad.May Allah help us and have mercy on us.Wassalam

  • Ahmed Bhai said:

    MYA: good link

    Did I miss or this is not anywhere in our media?

  • Asif said:

    Anybody knows That whether NS has done something for the old age people who were made homeless just before his arrival?

  • Tanweer Amjad said:

    @admin
    Would we be finding a tab for today’s news?

  • Naumeed said:

    @adeel

    Saudi arabia has these laws and yet people there have no freedom. They also donot have the freedom of speech and rule of law. For smae crime you may get no punishment or your hands may be chopped off. It all depends upon the judge’s mood.

    We donot need such laws.

    Look at India. We got self rule at the same time (I cannot say independence as we are still slaves of our army) India made secular laws, independent judiciary, free media, free election commission, eliminated feudal system.

    Now India is developing so fast that they are economic major power. In next 30 years it may even become moderately developed.

    Did India had Shariat laws? No.

    With all due respect to Shariat we need progressive laws not like hudood laws where a women needs 4 pious male witness to prove that she was raped.

    We need to enforce monogamy and enforce population control like China. What is the point of giving birth if we force our children to work at the age of 10.

    Our constitution of 1973 was great but army never allowed it to function. They rigged elections. They dismissed popularly elected leaders. They hatched conspiracies to prevent people’s voice.

    What we need is not Caliphate but genunine democracy.

    The time of Badshah is over this is age of equality. If we fail to make poor person equal to a rich man atleast electorally then Pakistan is lost.

  • sunny sool said:

    This is heart breaking clip and today i question the creation of pakistan.is pakistan came into being for army rulers and corrupt politicians.musharraf is brutal person,he will kill many more to stay in power.napak fauj murdabad.

  • Tipu said:

    My dear Adeel,

    I fully aympathise with your sentiments. But, I am afraid the issues are not as simple as you think.
    The issue is not Musharraf but army’s rule. And the same Huddod’s taht you are referring to were enforced by Zia, another army ruler. If not following Allah’s rule is the reason for our mess why were we in a mess under Zia who actually promoted these rules? Further, yes many are not following religious teaching in pakistan but millions and millions are. Why are they being forced to bear Musharraf? Why this injustice?

    Also almost all the developed countries in the world are not Islamic, or even religious, at-least in governance. By your logic, all of them should have been in a mess.
    The House of Saud, the most corrupt house in the world, is enjoying prosperity for a century, benefitting from Allah’s house. By your logic they should have been destroyed.

    Also, who will decide what rules of Allah to follow? Shi, Sunni, Wahabi etc? There is not one Sharia, not one interpretation of the Quran, not even a consensus about what should regarded as hadith…
    in fact, too much of reference to religion has been part of our problem. Our masses are led to believe that they are in poor condition not because some other humans are denying them their rights but beacuse Allah wishes so. We are told to tolerate exploitation beacuse we will be rewarded in the other life. Mullah-Military alliance is part of our problem.

    Tipu

  • Asad said:

    Well,
    Its not just that start blamming military, police, agencies. The point is these people are part of the society. They are us. Dictators and Establishment is 1 % or less of total. But what is Wrong with us. Its our brothers who join Army, Its our brothers Who join sevices. It is us who make the mess and then welcome Army to take over. It is us who elect the wrong people,(And we do know when we go to vote that they are not the best choice). The person who desrves selection losses becuase of no connections, broader family relations, money, status.We let these peple lose and let win the idiots.

    Its past 60 years, we have been making wrong dicisions. You all have a common sense. Please think carefully and asses and chose the one who deserves.

    And remember it might be the last chance.

  • imran malik said:

    @tipu

    JUDA HO DEEN SIAASET SEY
    TO REH JAATI HAY CHENGAIZI…

    THERE IS CHANGAZI GOING ON IN THIS WORLD …REGARLDLESS OF WHICH RELEGION THE COUNTRY BELOGS TO ..THEY ARE ALL FAR AWAY FROM DEEN…

    it has become fashion these days to condemn relegious school of thoughts for the sake of imitating western life style…what has that western school of (so called developed countries )given humanity…
    1-depression
    2-intolerance
    3-most divorce rate
    4-most suicide rate
    5-lonliness
    6-aimless life
    etc etc

    both mullah and west are lost souls…..MUHAMMADISM IS THE SOLUTION…SEARCH ON IT BEFORE GIVING UR “INTELLECTUAL COMMENTS” ON RELEGION

  • syed taimoor said:

    i have come to know wt hatred is the first time in my life.. after watchin this video my hatred for mushy has grown to a level where i never imagined i will ever hate any human with such intensity…. .
    i wud urge u all to send this video to atleast 100 ppl or as many ppl as u can so all of us can understand wt can lead to a suicide bomb and how vulnerable we pakistani s are at the mercy of our very own govt and previlged.. if v cant do sumthign else atleast we can send this video to others so they can knw the truth as well.
    up uptill now being in favour of mushy could ave been a matter of opinion or choice but after seeing all this anyone still supporting mushy can be categorized as devoid of having any human emotion.

  • pejamistri said:

    @syed taimoor
    I fully agree with you.

  • Asif said:

    I second to imran malik

  • M Khan said:

    @Tipu.
    You put it very well.

    Our country was destroyed by two extreams. One under Zia, where he tried to impose so called Islam on us and then by Mush who divided the society into two groups . Cronies who are supporting him (includes people like AH ) are moderates and anyone opposing him is extreamist.

    Guess where people like Imran Khan will fit??

  • Ahmed Bhai said:

    kia kisi key pass achee khabar nai hey. koi acha analysis hi sahi

  • pejamistri said:

    @ahmed bhai
    I am waiting for tomrrow to get general’s skin off. BTW you can read this
    http://pklatest.com/2007/11/27/what-is-in-a-oath/

    to know how disgusted I feel about the PCO “judges”.

  • Aneeza said:

    @ Adeel, Naumeed and Tipu

    The reality lies somewhere in between your statements. Having the need and desire of implementation of sharia or Islamic law is not bad in itself. This, in fact, is an aim every Muslim should have in his or her life. How to do that is a separate debate. It is not a solution to do it like Zia did (in his own thinking), the Saudi interpretation of Islam is also sickening where Islam applies to some portions of life and not to some others (for example there is no concept of monarchy in Islam), also the MMA style Islamization of double faced politics is not islamic at all. Also it is not like we are doomed because of our irreligious tendencies and should just lament over it. The truth is, in fact, realizing that we are a victim of lack of education, poverty and deprivation and our lack of understanding of Islam is also a result of that. This oppressive system has succeeded in creating two classes, the so called educated liberals who think Islam is humbug and Quran only good for recitation (without knowing its meaning) on deaths or seeing your daughters off under the shadow of, on weddings. The other class is the misled enthusiasts who think that by focing everyone to become Muslims they will achieve the goal. Our solution rests in two things: educating the destitutes in modern knowledge and letting them grasp the true spirit of Islam and for so called liberal people like us, who can spend half of their lives learning and understanding alien languages and techniques for practical life, to at least spend half as much effort in understanding Islam. Rest assured all the confusions and differences in interpretations, in implementation etc will evaporate. Because there was only one Islam that was taught to Muslims by the Prophet – no Sunni Islam, or Shia Islam or Brelvi or Deobandi Islam.

  • Aneeza said:

    Just an addition to my earlier post:
    Following one school of thought does not make one a different Muslim or a non muslim. As someone said above, there are different Sharias at work. No there is just one sharia, its just that is has room and flexibility for personal, territorial and regional differences. The only problem is that we, the educated Muslims do not give two hoots about at least knowing what Islam is all about. When you do that, it is very simple actually and once you have done that you can blast the ideas of the MMA and their likes to sand.

  • pejamistri said:

    Aslam Baig talking sense on BBC, he clearly said that once general doffs his uniform , army is not going to support him.

  • Asif said:

    Army will support his new boss Kiyyani as per their rules & traditions.
    Nothing new said by Baig sahib.

  • Ahmed Bhai said:

    This is Aslam Begs’ old opinion and if you combine it with Nusrat Javeds’ statement on live with talat (wardi na utarna wala), Nustrat said that after wardi wo aslam beg jaisa lagey ga

  • imran malik said:

    @PEJAMISTRI

    i hope so too…i hope that when he take off his wardi he is not allowed to wear any other cloth as well and shld be roamed around in the city of isd …without clothes on a donkey with his face sprayed black….and “enlightened moderation” be stamped on his back….

  • faraz said:

    @naumeed
    being a muslim is important than being a pakistani. everything at present is showing that democracy is the right system for a good life but dont forget there is a life afterwards. how much you criticize sharia but Allah has told us to choose that path. whole thing is based on priorities if our life is influenced by these worldly resources then ofcourse we are going to support these systems. like it or not but sharia is the right way for every believer
    here and afterwards. unfortunately we knew little about our religion practicing is the different thing but what the Allah and Prophet Muhammad(S.A.W.W) has told us is cent percent true full stop.

  • Aneeza said:

    @ pejamistri

    Indeed Musharraf takes the cake for being the most baighairat of all dictators that we have had. The ease and the dhitai with which he keeps moving the goal posts is annoying to the nth level.

    Sigh! May we be rid of him soon. I was talking to an old relative of mine and the statement that she gave made me realize how deeply do people resent him and yet are unable to do anything. She said with a sigh, “Chalo ker ley jitni hakoomat kerna chahta hai, Kab tak karey ga. 63 ka ho gaya hai. Kabhi tou marey ga”. However, what she did not know was key mertey mertey poorey mulk ko maar dey ga!

  • Ammar Ahmad said:

    Folks

    People like Musharaf think that this world is the end and they are immortal (remember Zia-ul Haq) but they always forget that Allah is above them and will hold them responsible of their sins one day!

    “Dictatorship is a constant lecture instructing you that your feelings, your thoughts and desires are of no account, that you are a nobody and must live as you are told by other people who desire and think for you.”
    - Stephen Vizinczey
    ***************************************

    Democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time. -WINSTON CHURCHILL, speech, Nov. 11, 1947

  • Tipu said:

    I think we must distinguish between religion and morality/ethics.
    I was not suggesting that morality should be separated from politics, but religion must.
    Siyasat becomes changezi when morality is excluded from it.
    Religion has an extremely important role to play in our everyday life and gives meaning to it. But in today’s society when we have many religions – or many interpretations of the same religion – it is best that our political decisions, particularly or law making, are not guided by appeal to religion.
    Why? there are many reasons but let me put forward just one. Diversity in religious interpretations. Just take the issue of women. In response the Mush government’s desire to change hudood laws we saw the various interpretations. We can say that those who were against the change did not understand true islam but the others would same the same. Mush’s enlightened moderation would appear misguided to Taliban and Taliban’s Islam would appear misguided to liberals and so on.
    Now, there is no harm if everybody practices his or her understanding of religion. The problem comes when one tries to impose his or her understanding on others. If government is not de-linked from religion this is the danger. we see this in Iran where non Shias are oppressed; in SArabia where non-Sunnies are oppressed; in Pakistan where minority religions are oppressed; even India under the influence of religious Right became oppressive for Muslims and others.
    In light of religious diversity and because, I believe, no religion or sect within a religion should be allowed to have the dominance, the business of state shopuld be run in a secular manner.
    Jinnah too had such a vision: “Now, I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the state”. August 11, 1947.

    Tipu

  • imran malik said:

    @tipu
    for ur kind information

    our role model is MUHAMMAD not JINNAH….

    secularism has lead societies towards total blindness….but i think its useless to talk about this in this forum..since inflated egos wouldnt let no body learn any thing…

  • Naumeed said:

    @faraz

    You and your fundamentalist views can go take a hike. Go on keep supporting Zia’s Hudood laws, MMA and Baitullah Maisood in SWAT who are demanding Shariat.

    Taliban had imposed Shariat iin Afganistan and life had become hell in this world.

    Being a “muslim before pakistani” theory is the reason for all international terrorism. People in london killing innocent school childred in buses by bombing just because British govt is supporting Israel is illogical and utter nonsense.

    Learn to question. Because from questioning comes knowledge. But people like you donot understand the meaning of knowledge. People like you should only learn arabic and stay away from English as it is Kaffir language.

    Try to be a human before you shout for being a muslim.

    For people like you life after death is more important then why do you not die?

    For people like you a hungry childs tear means nothing, pain of people mean nothing because to remove these one has to use machines which are made in factories and these factories are constructed on loans (on interest) so they are haram, eh?

    Why are you using internet by the way as it is a kaffir techmology.

    People like you are total bigots and have destroyed our country. Go an settle in Saudi arabia in Mecca because for you this country comes later. Right.

    Also if tommarrow Saudi Arabia attacks Pakistan then you will fight on the side of Saudi arabia because that is Allah’s country.

    Shame on you for being ostrich like.

    People like you want to DERAIL this forum because your beloved Army is being bashed here.

    You can go and do what ever you want in your house but you have no right to dictate as to how the rest of us ( sane Pakistanis) should live.

    Keep supporting army and we will kick your a$$ soon.

  • DowningStProtest said:

    DEMONSTRATION Against the Breaches of Human Rights in Pakistan

    Restore the Judiciary!
    Restore Democracy!
    Release all political prisoners

    Time & Date: Saturday, 1st December at 1pm
    Venue: Opposite Downing Street

    Organised by: Doctors Against Breaches of Human Rights in Pakistan (supported by Campaign Against Martial Law in Pakistan & Free Pakistan movements)

    Tel. 07786394216 & 07817773438
    All welcome

  • truebeliever said:

    I am amazed that after watching evidences like this, some still find ways to defend the post nine-eleven regime in Pakistan.
    To say that this did not happen or is exaggerated means we are turning a blind eye to the menifest truth.
    To somehow explain the resons why police and agencies under musharraf govt committed acts of terror like this one is rationalization. You can rationalize just about anything if you want to. We must remember that even Hitler rationalized his terror acts which culminated into killing millions.
    May God save us from these tribulations. Perhaps these are our own collective sins which have brought rulers like musharraf but obviously some of us are made to pay much more than others.
    It is important to remember that in the end we are all in the same boat which is sinking and it will sink everyone with it.

  • Azhar said:

    Benazir Bhutto’s exclusive interview in jawab deyh show !!!!!!

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=KXSPDcgwKMA

    A must watch ……very interesting

  • Malek said:

    I feel so ashamed being called a pakistani if this is what happens in Pakistan. i really dont have words to express my feelings. i am in tears watching this….never felt so ashamed before. The family seemed a normal middle class educated family….

    i am even more ashamed at number of Pakistanies posting comments in favour of this video. For those just be honest for 5 seconds if this was your family?

  • Tipu said:

    My friend Imran,

    This is precisely the point. Your and mine model is Muhammad (pbuh) but he is not the model for Hindus and Christians and others who also living in Pakistan.
    Apply your ideas to countries where Muslims are in minority. Already we can see that as Christianity and Hinduism are coming back to Europe and India, Muslims are facing greater hardship. If Europe become Christian politically, it may make laws that may even prohibit practice of Islam (beacuse they may say that Islam is not a religion; Christianity is the final religion). If India starts to make laws according its Gita and Ramayan what will happen to Muslims? Muslims will have a very very difficult life if Europe becomes Christian and says Jesus is our model or in India they make Rama their model. So i would like all countries to be secular and not make laws according to majority religion otherwise minorities everywhere will have difficulties.

    Also think about it? Why was Paksitan created in the first place? The fear was that a Hindi majorioty India will make make laws according to Hinduism and this will be deterimental to Muslims. But then, is it right that we make our minority Christians and Hindus and others second class citizens? You probably knwo that constitutionally no non-Muslim can be the President of Pakistan. And you know that even a man like shahid masood had commented negatively whem Bhagwan Das became CJ. But you saw what good role he played. to serve paksitan it is not necessary to be a Muslim.

    Don’t just think of Paksitan where Muslims – Sunni Muslims – are in majority. Apply your thinking across the world and you will see that if it is followed, in many many places muslims will suffer.
    It is best in a religiously plural world that our political decisions are not made on religious grounds.
    Finally, please try to understand that secular is not anti-religious or atheist. I call myself secular. I am a practising Muslim and proud to be one. But I am secular because i would not like to make laws based on religion. I have morals and i apply morality to politics but not my religion. Secular state does not mean secular society. America is a secular society; India is a secular society but both are highly religious. Do not confuse the isuse and think calmly rather then getting upset.

    Tipu

  • imran malik said:

    @tipu
    I understand your perspective and appreciate your taking time to explain it.
    here is my piont of view

    I think there has been only one relegion since the inception of Human being into this earth…that relegion says “this world is created by GOD and there is a world after death and this life is very short ,if you want to be successful you better live this life according to the rules and regulations mentioned by the creator.”
    if one beleive in tha above mentioned statement and hold this belief throughout his life then every thing falls in place and islam is the relegion which tells us how to make this possible,,how to keep ourselves away from the enticements and temptations of devil and how to stick to this basic belive…this beleve is the root cause of all the blessings and successes in this world and hereafter …any success without this belief is mere illusion …

    p.s if you look at the political systems ,all of them have derived the basic theology of law ,juriprudence ,rules of ethics morality and henceforth from the same law of accountability presented by the relegion….more they get stiffer towards the theology of this basic relegion ..the more the societies will nurture and will attain tranquility both individually and at the level of govt….
    i would need more time to explain this and this forum is not the adequat platform for it ,neither do i know howmuch time you possess..so i will leave it here ..

    take care

  • Rihat said:

    Finally BB is exposed…..per Geo news she is willing to work with mush once he is not in uniform. Everything else is acceptable.

  • Aijaz Alamdar said:

    This video has made me heavy heart as all of you, although its not what we already don’t know but the graphic display made us all present at the scene when the 16 years old kid was looking for help & now we feel equally guilty as those who were present there.
    Musharaf is a curse of Allah on this nation which did nothing to save shaheed Z.A. Bhutto.
    Musharaf will suck more blood than Shah of Iran, behind him is the same powerful Zionist lobby which has stakes all over the world, make no mistake high stakes are involved & all the top brass Generals are hooked by dirty money of earthquake relief fund,I mean billion of rupees.
    Apparently Musharaf has no wisdom & when he talk the way he talk,its easy to tell he is far below normal intellect–Psychologically such below average people are made the best stooge.
    We need a reform in our Army–First thing we do to get them out of Baluchistan University patronage–They must be given under PU or KU & standard of their degrees shouldn’t be below average standard of these universities.
    No officer should go beyond Brigadier rank unless he pass the toughest levels of Masters Degrees conforming to standards of these Universities.

  • Rihat said:

    Now the ball is in NS court…..Is he with mush/bb/fazlu/mqm?

  • imran malik said:

    IF NS take part in elections that will help bb

    IF NS bycotts that will help chaudharies..

    now you guies decide which devil shld he help…

  • Asif said:

    Participation of NS in election would also legitimize the election process
    And more importantly it will help the previous deal traika(BB, madcow, Kiyyani)

  • Tanweer Amjad said:

    If NS boycots election, he will directly help restore the judiciary, stamp the end of Musharraf regime, and things could be better.
    If NS does not boycot elections, he will directly legitimise the elections, and more ffort will be required on the part of lawyers, journalists and like-minded politicians and put an end to the politics of NS himself.
    Ns does not have the excuse of other parties whether or not supporting him. He has to decide on his own. He does not have the excuse of lack of support from other parties.

  • pejamistri said:

    @dmin,
    Appericiate if you could put this documentary as well along with missing in Pakistan.
    http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/rough/2007/09/flwrc58.html?&c=3wm

    We need to give these people some hope.
    thanks

  • Ahmad said:

    It is realy awaikning, we are saying overselves muslim and look to these people who have no emotions and no sense. believe shame to be a part of such a nation which cant protest for their rights. atleast we should ask that these people are humans. very depressed to see these images. May Allah give us courrege to fight these non-sense people.

  • Rihat said:

    Either case prime minister will BB for sure. If NS goes for elections BB will have legitimacy otherwise the whole world will say she won in the absence of creditable opposition.

  • M. Rehman said:

    i think during every martial law the generals are assigned (by america or ?) duty to demange the country severly. Gen yahyia did his job excellently in breaking Pakistan. Gen. zia also performed his job perfectly good by introducing secetarian intolarance among society and making seceret agencies uncontroable and ruthless by taking part in Afghan war.

    Now Mush is busy in war on terror and now the severly demaging effects of this war on our country are there. This war has given respect to a prostitution and insult to a pious woman. To provide justice to the prostitution, hundreds of the innocent boys and girls are labled as terrorists and are killed in military operation, while on the other hand the pious gets justice in the form of insult, manhandled and imprisonment.

    -see who comes after 10 years or so with new plans of destructions.

    Hum aik murda koom hain…

  • Asif said:

    @Rihat

    If NS boycotts, PMLQ would single out BB by having more inclination towards right groups(MMA)

    So we might expect BB too out of the ring!!!!!!!!!

  • imran malik said:

    @RIHAT
    I think urs is valid arguemnt

    so ns shld go for bycott.

  • Asif said:

    Apparently NS have no other choice than to go for a boycott.

  • pejamistri said:

    I am hugely impressed by the struggle of Mrs. Amna Janjua. I am absolutely convinced that her struggle caused the chains of these events in which we find our society getting up from a long sleep. This is so encouraging. I myself know how difficult it is to speak against ISI and I salute her courage to go a demonstrate in front of ISI headquarters, I know why the people standing at that time did not help her , it requires a courage of a lion to interfere in the affairs of ISI. But again she seems to me an iron lady.
    I am convinced CJ Iftikhar would have got inspiration from her to stood up agains the inteligence chiefs on 9th of March, and I am also convinced that the biggest and unpordonable crime of CJ was to hear the case of missing persons.
    I am somewhat passimistic today , I feel agencies in Pakistan are not going to forgive CJ and his fellow judges they will no be reinstated even if the mad general goes away.
    But wait we as a nation need the courage of Amna Janjua , if one lady with 3 small kids can force the COAS to doff his uniform, can’t we 160 million people throw away these agencies into sea in karachi.

  • imran malik said:

    @shahid kinaree,saqibtahir and all pppp jayaalaaas.

    what you guies say now…do you still sing praise of BB BAJI….

    BB BAJI BARI SYAAANI ,BARI ACHHEEEEEE…..
    PLZ CUT THE BB BAJI CRAP NOW…AND COME TO SEE THE REAL FACE OF THIS kemeeeeni aurat,and admit that she belongs to a kemmmeeeeneee family

  • Ahmed Bhai said:

    well said pejamistri:

    Mrs. Amina Jnajua is phenomenal and I am sure the precedence has set and agencies will be bracketed. Salute to her efforts! time after time…

  • farhan said:

    @ imran malik

    its no surprise to me. I have been saying this all along that BB will make u-turns in her stance to favor Mush. Her US sponsor cannot allow her to go against their wishes and BB wants her $ 1.5 billion accounts back and wants to get in power.

    Her supporters will once again come up with lame excuses and weak arguments with the same old claims of how ZA bhutto was hanged because he didnt compromise on principles. they fail to understand that it happened 2 decades ago and BB is no ZA bhutto. She is using her legacy to ruin this country and her blind followers are helping her.

    I wonder what excuse they will come up with for her latest statement, i.e. ‘now that Mush is taking off uniform, there is a possibility of her working with him’ :) . I am sticking to my opinion that this woman is as conniving as they come.

  • pejamistri said:

    In his novel “War and Peace� , Leo Tolstoy argued that the history is not shaped by “great men� , it is not Napoleans, Musharraf , Iftikhar Chaudarys of this world who move events, it is the massess , insignificant people , social pressures and several other forces that shape the events in history.
    9th of March , 20th July , 3rd November and now 29th of November does not happen in Pakistan because General Pervez Musharraf had issues with CJ Iftikhar Chaudary, or US put pressure on Pervez Musharraf to patch up with BB, or King Abdullah allowed Nawaz Sharif to return to Pakistan.
    It all started with 20 or so insignificant persons along with thousands and then hundreds of thousand people starting realizing something unthinkable.

  • Asif said:

    @farhan @ imran malik

    Yaar ab kabroon ki siyaasat lhatam honi chahiye. period.

    Bahut ho gai bhai………..

  • farhan said:

    BBs live press conference on Geo news.

  • farhan said:

    This woman is unbelievable. Listen to how she is justifying her participation in elections :) . I seriously doubt the intelligence level of her followers. If you can’t see her u-turns, theres something seriously wrong in your upper floor :D .

  • shawn said:

    Above comments have made me feel as pakistanis are strongly criticising our own army. This is not a good sign accusing army coz of few black sheeps. what about the judges who took oath under emergency combo.Aren’t they black sheeps too? what about Malik Qayyum and shareefuddin pirzada? and some more? this doesnt mean our whole judiciary is corrupt. Army is a very desciplined field. in the history of pakistan no army man has brought coup against any general. they have to obey orders. same is the case with police. both need some important corrective measures though. rightly said ” your army, your police, and the po0liticians are reflection of your people” they are not aliens. lets say if you want to destroy your own army? surely india will waste no time in attacking us. lets say goodbye to US. then who else? if you want conditions like iraq and afghanistan and fragility like iran, go ahead..do it!!!!!!!!!! i h*te musharraf for being a dictator, but the decision on war on terror was a wise one. you may disagree.

  • Tipu said:

    I am sure the Jawabdeh episode has given BB a taste of free media…
    I will not be surprised if she was not ggrilled like this before – both in or out of Pakistan…
    bottom line, she will not be interested in free media…free judiciary is never her priority…
    so it seems pretty bad for us democrats at the moment…

    but not unhopeful…this is just the beginning…it may take time, but freedom will come..
    Tipu

  • Rihat said:

    Shame Shame Benazir……..everybody get ready for MR 10%…..he is coming back. Khawaja Tariq Rahim got party ticket from Lahore over jiyalaas. Khawaja Tariq Rahim was governor with Farooq Lagari.

  • Tipu said:

    @shawn,

    and please push your history back and ask yourself why in the first place there was a need to have a war on terror…?
    who in the first place created this ‘terror’ against which we are now fighting…?
    what u-turn was taken by Mush after 9/11 regarding the support to Taliban?
    If Mush was wise he would have not initiated Kargil and would not have continued to support Taliban after coming to power…
    his decision to go for war on terror was not wise but only a necessity. He has himself said that US had threatened to bomb Pakistan to the stone age if we had not co-operated.
    I cannot think of any decision by mush that can be called wise. Please enlighten me if you can…

    Tipu

  • farhan said:

    Ok, BB just proved in her press conference she wont be supporting reinstatement of pre-nov 3 judiciary. A Dawn news journalist asked her she is not saying anything about pre-nov 3 judiciary. she answered ‘our struggle is for democracy and rule of law, and it is not for some people in the judiciary’ : ). The journalist emphasized his question again mentioning pre-nov 3 judiciary and she replied again our struggle is for restoration of democracy and rule of law.

    I wonder how will her supporters defend this view of their leader.

  • Ahmed Bhai said:

    Shawn:
    Just to correct your doubts.

    Decision on war on terror has nothing to do with independent judiciary. let judges work and justice prevail.

    With Nukes, Indian fear is over and Army can’t make people fool.

    Nation is known by its people, their behavior, their social responsibility, education, determination… and not by ARMY. Justice is an important reflection of society and police is just one implementor for providing justice

    Why Iraq and Afghanistan? Why not to be a normal one with abnormality removed.

  • Asif said:

    @farhan

    Don’t woryy she knows very well that due lack of eclectronic media, theres no harm in taking any kina turn, whether its U or V.

  • Tanweer Amjad said:

    BB has given her clear stance. She wants to go into elections and win them, then she will think about judiciary. She intentionally avoid giving statement regarding the restoration of judges. In fact she categorically sida, she wants independent judiciary. so the word ‘pre-November 3′ has been removed. We will see a lot of expectations from her.
    I don’t think PPP supporters will sense that, since it is difficult to perceive. Rather they would perceive it but somehow try to defend it one way or the other.

  • Aijaz Alamdar said:

    I think BB is not here for fair election.
    In her right mind she can not give unpopular statements just before elections like giving away Qadeer Khan or stupid statement about so called better treatment of punjabi PM.
    During her deal with agencies she must have been assured that either there will be no election or they will be rigged in her favor.

  • raza said:

    After watching this video,I have no word to say to that little girl crying for his brother and to her brother who is being humuliated in Public .Shame on all of us being a Pakistani .Do we still think ,this is a Muslim country.This does not happen even in poorest country of Africa.In the begining.two girls are being dragged by a terrorist (policeman) and once again those girls are calling for Some Mohammed Bin Qasim.We all Pakistani are deaf and we do not deserve to be called as Muslims not even humanbeings.Dispensing justice has been the pride of Muslims and attracted many non-muslims to the circle of Islam but where CJ has been banned because he was dispensing justice.We all must ask this question to ourself.Are we muslims??????????????????? All the teachings of Islam are being practiced by non-muslims in the west but not by muslims.Because Only in the west you will find dignity of human beings.May God bless Pakistan.

  • Tanweer Amjad said:

    Now we have to see the stance of NS. Will he start following the same suit? For him it is quite different. Because he will lose credibility and support from his workers and might lose. On the other hand, PPP supporters don’t care what their leader does, they will support her whatever she does.

  • Asif said:

    Aik beyghunah insaan ka katal dehshat ghardi hai.
    Phir chahey yeh katal koi idaara karey ya koi group.
    Jitney zaida beyghuna insaan katal hon gey dhehshat ghardi utni hi bharey gi.

  • Tipu said:

    the reason why Mush and BB are able to do all this is just one…
    they have no fear of street protests.
    With US supporting/ media black out and impotent judiciary, what pockets of resistance are there can be crushed…
    so they fear nothing…
    if people are the source of power in a democracy, people must show that they have this power in the first place,…
    We have failed on this point…for a variety of reason….
    I am sad…it seems this particular battle is now lost…
    it is particularly sad that BB said these things justa day before Mush was going to leave his COAS office…
    we must now concentrate on the battle of ideas…people will ahve to be educated to see the superiority of democracy only then will they realise their power and impose it…
    brace yourself for a long battle in the night of darkness…but morning must come…must come…

    tipu

  • Tanweer Amjad said:

    BB and NS should stop giving lame excuses of APDM. The two big parties don’t need any stamp from other platforms. they should show their clear stance independent of other parties. The other parties would unite with them on either sides.

  • farhan said:

    @ Tanweer Amjad

    Whatever my friend. Doesn’t matter how she puts it. All this ’stating categorically’ and other such BS cant justify her actions. She can play all she wants with the words. Bottom line is she was the first one from opposition to support Mush and she is continuing to do so for her own interests.

  • Rabiya said:

    This is an earnest appeal.
    The elections need to be boycotted cuz participation in elections under emergency will legitimate the state of emergency as well as give credibility to the socalled new illegal judges.
    Please boycott elections as well as the people participating in it. Imran Khan is not an emotional fool. he knows that standing against the opportunists is very important at that time.
    I feel ashamed of all the politicians who are poarticipating in the elections. What good did all these opposition parties do in the Parliament of Musharraf last time that they dont want to leave the field open to them? what did fazlurrehman do for the nation? he was just busy in filling his pockets and tummy. As for BB she would do anything to be the next PM. more characterless than any prostitute i would say!
    Please boycott elections. the are unconstitutional and un lawful.
    Save Pakistan!

  • pejamistri said:

    General doffing his uniform tomorrow:
    This is perhaps the most significant achievment of Pakistan civil society in the last sixty years. In 1988, General Zia was never under such a pressure from public to doff his uniform or allow the democracy to work. He was killed not because there was unbearable civil society pressure. And then in 1971, Yahaya Khan had to leave because of the breakup of the country, and perhaps a little bit closer to the current situation was Ayub who had to leave because of some civil society pressure but I can not comment more on that.
    IF (and this is a big IF) General does remove his uniform tomorrow , then that will be the single biggest achievement of the struggle of people, and I am sure it will be irreversible as because of those forces (free media, easy access to history, courageous civil society, irreversible actions of Judiciary and so many other) no future general will feel as easy to grab the power as Pervez Musharraf, Zia ul Haq, Yahya Khan, Ayub Khan felt.

  • Rihat said:

    Fazlu lost creditability
    BB lost creditability
    Qazi on the border of losing creditability

    The ball is in NS court…..he has to prove that he was right and mush was wrong in 1999.

    He took a bold decision at the time of nuclear test…….time to take another bold decision.

  • farhan said:

    @ pejamistri

    Good analysis bro. I believe he will take off his ’skin’ this time. There is no other excuse unless India attacks us firsst thing in morning :) .

  • imran malik said:

    @tipu

    vvv rightly said bro

    i was thinking on the exact same lines…

    its all happening bc of lack of street protest…

  • farhan said:

    @ Rihat

    I second you bro. After the nuclear test decision, NS boycotting would be his second bold decision. Lets hope he doesn’t lose his credibility like the lot.

  • concerned pakistani said:

    @Admin,
    Please put the latest BB press conference.

    Guys BBs motives are very clear now. She appreciates Mush as a civilian President and now talks will start with him. PPP wants smooth transition of power and they will participate in Elections at any cost and in the same breath she says free and fair elections not possible.
    All judges should be released, when asked repeatedly that why dont you demand the restoration of judges only their release, she says PPP is working for restoration of democracy not individual judges.
    Until PPP doesnot boycott elections and demand restoration of judges, nothing is going to happen, take my word and do not expect anything good to happen in future. No hopes now.

  • imran malik said:

    @all

    HERE IS THE BOTTOM LINE OF DEAL BW MUSH AND BIBI.

    I HELP U BECOME PRESIDENT FOR NEXT 5 YRS

    YOU HELP ME BECOME PM …….

    USA HAPPY….WE BOTH HAPPY…..BAAKI SEB GO TO HELL……………………..

  • Asif said:

    IKs clear stance on most of things had put him altogether in a different level.
    The bad moves by rest of the parties would futher raise his level.
    So Big parties should be very very careful in thier moves.
    As an example during NS arrival people very clearly asked for boycott.
    To go against their wishes would be a big disaster for both BB & NS

  • farhan said:

    Has everyone noticed all jiyalas disappear from here whenever BB makes a u-turn and holds press conferences to issue !diotic statements. They reappear after a day or so : ).

  • imran malik said:

    @farhan
    exactly…

    and i think it was all planned…

    i still remember the day CJ was reinstated ,MUSH went to meet bb the same day (20th july),at that piont he knew that as a last resort he will have to impose martiallaw ….and after that he will need the support of BB otherwise he would succumb to the pressure of all political parties…USA was already inclining towards bb .. ….so BB grabbed the oppurtunity with both hands….

    THEY knew that the NRO will be chanllenged at SC ..but he will sack the judges any way so nothing to worry about…after all this assurance BB came back…and the assurance not only ends here …the elections will also be rigged in favour of BB…

  • Gulshan said:

    People Of Pakistan: Open your eyes and ears, start using your own brain and conscience to understand the situation. Stop continue being a herd of animals and be led by the Greedy Rat Bastards i.e Mullas, Army and Corrupt Politicians. This is your nation as much as theirs. Take control of it. Protect it for yourself and for your future generations. If you don’t use your own brains, they will continue to incite you against this enemy, that enemy, this Kaffir and that kaffir. Be vigilent. You have given too much power to Army and Clergy. They ask you to sacrifice and you should. But, while you sacrifice, they are raping Pakistan. All these Mullas who are inciting you for JIHAD, how many of them have sent their sons or daughters for Jihad. Have the guts to question and challange for debating on issues. Refrain from violence but have the courage to protest and question these leaders, the corruption and abuse of power.
    Don’t feel depressed. Situation will get worse but eventually your sacrifice will bear fruits. There is no such thing as “Islam Khatre Main Hai”. A great philosophy or heavenly message has its own strength.
    The real danger to Islam is from the Islamic Clergy and real dangerto pakistan is from its own police/military brutality.
    Whenever you see a policeman, military person, Clergy member or govt. official, in a civil but firm way, let them know as to what a disgusting role they are playing. Let them know that they are pary in this brutallity, directly or indirectly. But do not get into shouting match with them. Bycot their functions. Refuse ther invitations. Slowly but surely, they will get the message.

  • Sameul M said:

    I expect civility, at least he was the leader of your Pakfaouj.

  • concerned pakistani said:

    I have doubts about the timing of BBs press conference at 11.30 pm PST. Tomorrow Mush is doffing uniform. May be he and America needed assurances from BB that she will not ditch him and BB obliged by saying in clear words that she is willing to work with Mush as a civilion president and praised him for fulfilling the promise he did with PPP to doff uniform.
    For Gods Sake, this person is not even qualified to be peon rest assured President.
    PPP- champions of democracy will now support a person who twice threw the constitution in the dustbin. Poeple still are not aware, and i sometimes think we deserve to be ruled by such poeple.

  • Rihat said:

    Chaudries and lota party were better then BB and PPP (at least they were open and clear about their stance not like this duel face evils).

  • imran malik said:

    i think if NS bycotts then people shld vote lota party to give bb the shock of her life…but its highly unlikely ,,,she has been given assurance by her big daddy after
    all…

  • Ali said:

    NS’s visit to the home of deposed Judges and AA shows that he is committed.

    BB never went to their homes. Why ?

    I am hopeful that he will make the rightful decision.

    If NS and APDM boycotts the election, the civil society and the lawyers will back them and the international community will accept these fraudulent elections under the PCO.

    If NS participated in elections, he will lose all credibility.

  • concerned pakistani said:

    @Rihat,
    You’r absolutely right. Atleast Chaudries and Dr Sher Afgan have sincerity and loyalty towards Mush and the people, by saying they will elect Mush not once but 10 times in uniform, and they acheived it.
    After hearing BB and presuming ALLah forbid she will come to power, ive started liking the chaudries, as they wont fool the masses

  • Rihat said:

    Just spoke to my 2 very old PPP jiyalas friends. They are saying BB today’s press conference was just to give confidence to mush. PPP will change their stance from Thursday…. and if this will not happen they will quit politics or join PTI.

  • Rabiya said:

    NS now has the chance to make it or loose it forever. i m ready to forgive him for running away in the night to save his skin but i will never forgive him if he gives legitimacy to these elections. Please dont lick the boots that kicked you. and all people should kick him back to where he came from if he is pursuing mush agenda!

  • imran malik said:

    it was all planned folks

    i still remember the day CJ was reinstated ,MUSH went to meet bb the same day (20th july),at that piont he knew that as a last resort he will have to impose martiallaw ….and after that he will need the support of BB otherwise he would succumb to the pressure of all political parties…USA was already inclining towards bb .. ….so BB grabbed the oppurtunity with both hands….

    THEY knew that the NRO will be chanllenged at SC ..but he will sack the judges any way so nothing to worry about…after all this assurance BB came back…and the assurance not only ends here …the elections will also be rigged in favour of BB

  • Traffic said:

    this video made me cry, all those who support this inhumanity should just think for a minute and imagine if it was their mother in amina’s place screaming and crying on the streets for you, and your little sister crying, imagine what she must be going through at that age.

    normal people like us fear Allah and make sure we dont take any one’s bad-dua, imagine how many helpless peoples’ prayers are against musharraf, inshallah on the day of judgement we will see him with the lowest of the low, inshallah he will burn in the deepest pits of Hell forever. may Allah never forgive him.

    on another note, reading some people’s comments im surprised at how some people can outrightly state that shariah is bad and we should completely seperate Islam from politics, and yet claim to be Muslims. i wont argue becuase i dont have time to reply to peoples’ comments, ill just write down a few very UNAMBIGUOUS verse from the Quran, you guys decide if you are really Muslims or not.

    “And whosoever does not rule by what Allah has revealed they are KAAFIRUUN.” (Qur’an, 5:44)

    “And whosoever does not rule by what Allah has revealed they are ZAALIMUN.” (Qur’an, 5:45)

    “And whosoever does not rule by what Allah has revealed they are FAASIQUUN.” (Qur’an, 5:47)

    “And rule between them by that which Allah has revealed and follow not vain desires, diverging away from the truth that has come to you.” (Qur’an, 5:48)

    “And rule between them by that which Allah has revealed and follow not their vain desires, but beware that they may turn you away from some of what Allah has revealed.” (Qur’an, 5:49)

    still wonder why we Muslims are getting punished from Allah swt?

    thanx for taking the time to read, may Allah guide us all :)

  • Tipu said:

    Dear planners of protests…

    We have been talking about what we can do in all this situation.
    The demonstration and protests in USA/ Uk are great acts.
    I have a few suggestions for the organsiaers.
    I attended the one with Jemima in London. It was a good protest but I noticed a few things that need to be attended to.
    One, there were several other demonstratiosns (Iraq, somailia…) and it was hard for a passerby to see Pakistani issue distinctly. Two, some passrby were taking demonstration as a nusiance. Beacuse of a very negative image of Paksitan in the general public here, I am not sure that the demo was able to reach out to the public here.

    Now, what to do? I think, it is imperative taht we reach public here. The only thing governemnts’ in the West care about is public opnion. So how do we ptoceed?

    My suggestion is taht in addition to speeaches, banners etc we use video. This video about missing persons is excellent. there are many, many people here who are against Bush/UK policies on war on terror and if they can see taht what is happening to Pakistani people is linked to these policies, there will be some sympathy. We badly need it.

    So, my request to the demo oragnisers is to please try and arange to show the videos in demos. we should plan demos so as to target not just the government here but public opinion.

    Also we should seek to go to venues where we can reach to the public. Hyde Park is London is a good place. it is symbolically associated with free speech as well.

    If anyone has contacts, please try and get this video into BBC or Channel 4.

    please share suggestions for making demos more effective,

    tipu

  • concerned pakistani said:

    @Rabiya,
    Only NS boycotting the election is of no use untill PPP does not do it.PPP participates it will legitimise the election in front of western powers no matter complete APDM boycotts. I am not in favour of only NS boycotting the elections, you know what will happen then.
    Mush will get 2/3 majority through PML Q, PPP and JUI F, and you will see such amendments which will make you cry.

  • imran malik said:

    @traffic
    vvv nice post
    keep up the good work

  • Rihat said:

    Everything is going according to their plan….. one last thing they want is the opposition participation in the elections to get legitimacy.

    If opposition goes for elections then please please don’t say tomorrow that the elections were rigged……. even your own kids will laugh at you.

  • 78768 said:

    does anyone has link to capitaltalk and live with talat shows there were held yesterday and today ?

  • Rihat said:

    As far as I know the episodes were aired on Friday.

  • A Javed said:

    kutay ke bachay yeh army walay.

    In ko khatam karna her Pakistani ka deeni aur qaumi farz ho

  • imran malik said:

    @ a javed

    hahahaa…thats exactly what the whole nation is feeling for them…

  • Qasim said:

    Mush is the second face of bsh.may allah give us courage and power to get rid of rouge army.The video really forced me to think and to something for my country and for the innocent people of my home land.Really I am feeling ashame to be called pakistani.

  • Morad said:

    We should not just do random gestures of Demonstrations but need a long term plan where we set up & unite behind a set of instituitions to move our cause forward. How many of us are willing to push the Muslim MPs, Our Local MPs, MCB, Our Local Mosques to unite as Muslims of UK and get a common platform to address such issues….

  • Naveed said:

    i was very sad when i saw video. but now smiling while reading comments. we are pakistanies :) we are born extremist. we hate army … where army come from. it is among us. these are people who are our brothers and members of lot of families in pakistan from 4 provinces.
    so when we say – we hate army .. it means we hate ourselves. we hate ourselves because of being pakistani.. it is shame (is not it ?) it is like that if u say i hate my father or mother (place of birth and parents u can not change).
    insted of hating army, just hate the evil people in army (that sounds logical).
    and my openion is Hadith of Prophet (PBUH)… “Tumhara jasa ammal hota haa tum per wasa hukmaran musalat kir deyaa jata haan”

  • Ali said:

    Any idea what happened to the young kid…

  • Adil said:

    I don’t know whether this would make any difference but I see it a smart move by Lums students to make our politicians feel our presence. Bombardment of Boycott favored views may do the impossible and PPP leadership get convince to set away for this fraud which we all know would be ‘selection’, contacts of PPP leaders can be found at http://pakistanmartiallaw.blogspot.com

    In a similar effort, I find some of the PML N contacts and have verified them personally by talking to these people, it’s worth dropping them a text or a call.

    Makhdoom Javed Hashmi – 0300-9630407

    Khawaja Muhammad Asif – 0300–8440640

    Could anyone in PK please start a sms thread of forward these numbers

  • Tipu said:

    @dear Traffic….

    you have quoted several verses…
    now, plaese raed my previous comments to get the context of my reply here..

    you have quoted verses in tarnslation…
    now, please check
    http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html

    you will there translations of the same verses by three prominent translators, including Yousuf Ali and Pickthal…all of them use the word ‘Judge’ where you are using ‘Rule’…

    The Arabic term is ‘Hukm’ which means both rule and judge…

    now you can see what great difference is made if you translate as ‘Rule’ or ‘Judge’…

    When you translate Rule it gives an impression that the verses are asking government’s…and if we tarnslate as judge it means the verses are simply asking each one of us to judge our affairs in accordance with the taechings of God…

    Now, this is not my main point, my main point is that this shows the diversity and different ways in which the Quran can be understood….

    this is just one example, on alsmost evey verse we have difference of opinion…the Tafseers are full of different interpretations. In fact thousands of tafseers have been written precisely beacuse peopel differed of their understanding of the Quran.

    and if we will try to rule by Sharia, we will be fighting about who’s interpretation is right…that is the raeson we have more than 73 sects…

    thsi is the reason, people here, including myself have suggested that we think of separating religion from politics…

    this does not mean that we cease to be Muslims…only taht we do not rule by using Islam…

    Tipu

  • Ahmed Bhai said:

    Naveed:
    Its now an old discussion on this forum and Army have surpassed individual criticism to institute as a whole.

    If institute or majority believe in law, constitution, humanity… they can let it know to their generals after all when they have to take over, only a colonel level person with few jawans can do it.

  • jojo said:

    @Traffic
    A very impressive comment. How beautifuly Quran solves the problem.
    One of the several reasons for all this chaos particularly in Muslim world is poverty, which apart from corruption and lack of social justice, also comes from interest based economies.

  • imran malik said:

    Guies

    even if BB becomes PM and mush president …do you think they will get along…here is there track record
    ——a lady who didnt survive with leghari….
    —–.and man who didnt tolerate jamali…..

    wow what a lethal combination…i dont see them going together more than a year…and who will benefit eventually ——>>>WHOEVER BYCOTTS…AND THAT IS —–>>>NS ,IK OR MAY BE JI TOO…

  • Zarak Khan said:

    I have a humble suggestion if someone is willing to take it and run with it.

    As you all probably know and remember Mush wrote and published his book “In the Line of Fire” a year or so ago. According to my unscientific research there have been approx 25 to 30K books sold so far.

    How about collecting (buying back already sold books using a common fund that we all contribute to using paypal etc) and burning his book with all the media present in every major city of the world as a sign of protest at what his govt is doing to our dear country.

  • imran malik said:

    @tipu

    the quranic verses are the orders from GOD..they encompass every thing ..they r not only for individuals they r for the society as a whole..just bc we have diff of opinion …shld we leave it as it is…no my friend…God didnt revealed his book for one’s individual self..its for the entire humanity

    dont jump to the conclusions on this vv sensitive issue

  • jojo said:

    If there is a difference of opnion, then Quarn also teaches the Ethics of disagreement.

  • imran malik said:

    NS is going for bycott..

    take my words as a news…but dont ask for the source

  • Traffic said:

    @(not so dear) Tipu

    “When you translate Rule it gives an impression that the verses are asking government’s…and if we tarnslate as judge it means the verses are simply asking each one of us to judge our affairs in accordance with the taechings of God…”

    im sorry but even if you translate it as judge, it does not mean judging yourself individually. if you actually took out the time to read those verses in full, they are talking about how Allah revealed to the Jews the Taurat with complete laws and yet they came to the Prophet to judge between them.

    “Undoubtedly, We have sent down Taurah, wherein is the guidance and light. According to it the Jews were ordered by Our obedient prophets and men of reaming and, JURISTS for it was desired from them to preserve the Book of Allah and they were witnesses to it, then fear not people, but fear Me and do not accept mean price for Our Signs. And whoso judges not according to what Allah has sent down, they are the persons who are INFIDELS.” 5:44

    and you talk about different tafseers and sects. please tell me which tafseer or sect says that humans instead of Allah has the right to legislate? just because there are disagreements between the sunnis and shias in a few matters does not mean we throw away Allah’s laws and start legislating ourselves from our own desires. please do not twist Quranic ayahs to justify your disbelief.

  • imran malik said:

    @jojo

    u r right

    actually there is a faction among us who really want to undermine the significance of relegion ..they want to ridicule it because they are not willing to follow the hard path…they want to continue there life the way they want it to be without relegious restrictions…and inorder to prove there piont they use the present fiasco of muslim world and western develepment etc etc….

    but little do they know that whatever tough situation may become..truth will always prevail and will hold ..only steadfast people will be able to hold the truth in tyring times……

    western philosophy is doomed…even west is looking for the truth of GOD…they have become sick of man made ideas which always lead to the chaos…..

  • imran malik said:

    @traffic
    second to u…bro

    excellent

  • saman said:

    very thought provoking!
    Did we have c choice before?
    Do we have one now??

  • Tipu said:

    @dear traffic (just beacuse you disagree with me will not make you ‘not so dear’ to me)

    lets look at the verse 43 and 44 to get a fuller understanding…
    here is the translation by Yousuf Ali:

    43. But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) law before them?- therein is the (plain) command of Allah; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) People of Faith.
    44.
    It was We who revealed the law (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah’s will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah’s book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers.

    Now, think about these matters.
    The Jews were clearly not rulers in Medina so they cannot be making judgement about the matters of the state. They were ordinary people. And clearly, therefore, they did not come to the Prophet to solve issues to do with state or politics but with issues of everyday living (i.e. private rather than public lives).
    In my opinion, therefore, the Quran is thus talking about not the judgement of the rulers in the matters of running the state but in the everyday life of the community.
    In 44 as well, who are the judges in Jewish community who have been asked to judge by their law?: the Prophet, Rabbis and the Doctors of law…Not rulers…

    In my opinion, the Quran is not asking rulers to judge by religious law. The Quran is referring to ordinary, everyday living that should be guided by the revealation.

    Look, I am not saying that I am right and that you are wrong. I am just stating that I have as much right to interpret the Quran as you have and my interpretation is obviously different from yours. And it is not just that we are differing. graet schoalrs like Ibn Sina and al-Ghazzali and Ibn Rushd have differed; Asharis and Mutazzalites have differed; Jabriya and Qadriya schools understood the Quran differently. Sufis had a different approach than Faqihs. Shias differe from Sunnis. Whose interpretation will you take and make it a law? Some will say we should cut the fingers of thief, others will say no we should apply the spirit and not the letter of law. Some will say Quran allows for four marriages, other will say no it allows for only one marriage.
    I do not have a right to judge among the great scholars who have disagreed with each other and continue to do so. You probably know that Mawdudi and Fazl ur Rahman (not fazlu but scholar who had to leave Pakistan) differed on many things including the question of riba being interest in modern terms or not. Both were great scholars, knew Arabic and Islamic history very well but they differed.

    If is baecsue of all these differences, I propose that we run the state – not our everyday lives – without religion.

    And my friends, believe me what you think of Islam is exactly what Christians think of their religion and Hindus of theirs. If all of them start to run their countries by Christian and Hindu ways, Muslims, millions of Muslims, will be in great difficulty.

    The secular solution is a practical solution. It may not be ideal but it is better than each of us fighting over who is right and who is wrong. Even on this forum we are unable to persuade each other, how can we do so when the issue will be of laws taht will affect milliosn of people? It is in our interest to accept our limitations in coming to one understanding and go for the next best solution and that is to run politics without religion – though, again I say, not without morality.

    Let me say once again, to separate religion from politics does not mean we are no longer practising Islam. We will continue to pray, to fast, to be moral, to recite the Quran. we will remain Muslims and proud Muslims. Only thing that will not happen is that we will not impose our understanding of religion on others.

    Tipu

    If you want the country to be run by the Quran, whose interpretation will count?

  • Freedom for ALL said:

    We must keep in mind that every institution or organization has a well defined role according to the constitution of Pakistan. The role of Army is to defend our dear country against any war imposed on us by our enemies. Similarly the other organs of state Executive, Judiciary and legislature have their own well defined role and responsibilities. The problem arises when one organ of the state interferes into the matters of other.
    Soon after the creation of Pakistan, Army started to intervene in the matters which belonged to other organs. Unfortunately that trend became a permanent tradition so we had 35 years of Military rule after independence.
    The question is not whether Army is good or bad, but the question is whether it is playing its role within its own domain or not? Unfortunately our army interfered into the matters belonging to other pillars of state.
    No one of us should be against Army itself, but we should definitely be against the political role of Army. We all love our Army and a strong, vigilant Army is our need, but we must protest against the political intervention of Army.
    Pakistan was made by a lawyer and politician and he wished a democratic Pakistan, where everyone should have equal rights.. So we must try to make Pakistan a truly democratic state where no individual or organization should be Supreme, rather the CONSTITUTION of Pakistan must be Supreme. If that Pakistan becomes a reality where CONSTITUTION is supreme, no agency will ever pick people from their homes and keep them in their custody without any trial.

  • imran malik said:

    @TIPU
    actually there is a faction among us who really want to undermine the significance of relegion ..they want to ridicule it because they are not willing to follow the hard path…they want to continue there life the way they want it to be without relegious restrictions…and inorder to prove there piont they use the present fiasco of muslim world and western develepment etc etc….

    but little do they know that whatever tough situation may become..truth will always prevail and will hold ..only steadfast people will be able to hold the truth in tyring times……

    western philosophy is doomed…even west is looking for the truth of GOD…they have become sick of man made ideas which always lead to the anrachy and aimlessness

    the quranic verses are the orders from GOD..they encompass every thing ..they r not only for individuals they r for the society as a whole..just bc we have diff of opinion …shld we leave it as it is…no my friend…God didnt revealed his book for one’s individual self..its for the entire humanity

    dont jump to the conclusions on this vv sensitive issue

  • missing_pakistan said:

    There is NO difference of opinion among the scholars about running a country.

    No one should discuss the very foundation of Pakistan, which is Islam.

  • missing_pakistan said:

    @ My dear brother tipu (you and every muslim is very dear to me,and I wish all the disbelievers become believes too)

    Assalam oalikum wr wb,

    May I suggest you and to every one that please consider to learn the meaning and dimensions of “Laa ila ha illal lah and Muhammad ur rasool Allah”

    Lets just think about what is the meaning of word “Ilah” and “Rasool”

    What is the meaning of touheed, or believing in oneness of Allah swt??

    May Allah swt keep our Iman pure, and protect us from the attacks of Shaitan(ameen)

  • missing_pakistan said:

    This is a remarkable book,
    please consider to read in some peaceful and quiet time.

    http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/M_foi/index.html

  • jojo said:

    @Tipu
    I doubt Maulana Maudoodi and the other scholar, to whom you are refering, can solve the mathematics of economy.

    People like Ibn Sina etc were all rounder types of personalities who were religious scholars as well as scientists.

    I pray that one day some great economist comes forward and realy makes a mathematical model of economy which should be applicable to the contamporary Islamic world. Now Quran gives the boundary conditions of that mathematical model i.e not to cross these limits;
    1- Riba free
    2- Social Justice i.e. even distribution of wealth among the society.

    May be after 100 years or so, to address the new poltical dimensions that model is to be changed but bounday conditions will be same. That is the beauty of Islam that its very flexible under a boundary.

    I tell you if we address this issue, we can control the poverty. People will get Insaaf in eduction, health etc and will reduce the chaos.

  • imran malik said:

    @MISSING_PAKISTAN

    LOVED UR COMMENTS BRO…

    MAY ALLAH GIVE HADAYAT TO US ALL…

  • Tipu said:

    @ dear missing_pakistan

    yaar, kuch tu specific baat karo….
    which scholars are u talking about?
    Don’t you know that many, many religious scholars were against the creation of pakistan? Don’t you know that Jinnah was called Kafir-e-Azam?
    And there will be many in the scholars taht you may be thinking about who would not accept Shias as Muslims. I say thsi beacuse you may not know that Jinnah was born in an Ismaili famnily and conveted to Ithna Ashari Shia? Both of these are not even Muslims according to so many of the scholars who you may have in mind.
    And, do you think Javed Ghamdi and Israr Ahmed mean the same thing by islam and will have the same opinion about running Paksitan?
    so bhai, thora sooch kar tu likho…

    Tipu

  • AST said:

    Excellent effort @ Ziad Zafar.

  • missing_pakistan said:

    @ jojo

    A very good wish, you might like to know about proffesor Khursheed Ahmad:

    In view of his pioneering work and contributions towards the development of Islamic Economics as an academic discipline, he was awarded the First Islamic Development Bank Award for Economics in 1988.

    His contributions to the Islamic cause were also recognized in the form of King Faisal International Prize,1990.

    In recognition of his services in Islamic Economics & Finance, he was given 5th Annual Prize of American Finance House, LaRiba, USA in July 1998.

    Please check the link.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khurshid_Ahmad

  • jojo said:

    @missing Pakistan
    I am sorry, I realy didn’t know about that. I would like to read his books on Islamic economy. Thanks.

    Its a mystry that JI and his co. parties (MMA) didn’t apply these norms in NWFP, atleast for a test case for a role model. We need to do more than the housing and car financing, I mean to work at state level.

  • missing_pakistan said:

    @ Piyaray Tipu,

    What I am saying is lets discuss the basis of Islam, there is no difference of opinion among any scholar that a country should be run as an Islamic state, instead of Secular one.

    BTW
    I know Quaid e azam’s family very closely :) and he was muslim (a normal one, for sure).

    I hope and pray that you will read the book, with open mind inshaAllah

    OR you will be doing your own research.

    (please, it is just for the remembrance of Allah swt, and for tazkeer, I hope this forum can be beneficial to everyone)

    THX

  • missing_pakistan said:

    Dear jojo

    I think they have done some research on state level too, but I m not sure.

    Take care,

  • Traffic said:

    @ Tipu

    another post of yours filled with lies and twisting of facts.

    “In 44 as well, who are the judges in Jewish community who have been asked to judge by their law?: the Prophet, Rabbis and the Doctors of law…Not rulers…”

    who do you consider to be “doctors of law”? are not “doctors of law” legislators or jurists? that alone confirms that legislators are supposed to follow Allah’s laws, not make up their own.

    “In my opinion, the Quran is not asking rulers to judge by religious law.”

    sorry bro but your opinion is wrong, it is not backed up any proof. Allah warns you not to follow your own desires in the Quran and yet you think your OPINION is legitimate?

    “Look, I am not saying that I am right and that you are wrong. I am just stating that I have as much right to interpret the Quran as you have and my interpretation is obviously different from yours.”

    no actually neither me nor you has the right to interpret the Quran until we have a complete education in Islamic sciences of hadith, tafseer etc. just like i cant say im a judge and will pass judgements in court without studying law, you cant say you’re going to interpret the Quran without a deep knowledge of Islam.

    “And it is not just that we are differing. graet schoalrs like Ibn Sina and al-Ghazzali and Ibn Rushd have differed; Asharis and Mutazzalites have differed; Jabriya and Qadriya schools understood the Quran differently. Sufis had a different approach than Faqihs. Shias differe from Sunnis. Whose interpretation will you take and make it a law?”

    yes scholars also differ, but they differ based on their knowledge of Quran hadith etc. and no scholar has ever said that man-made laws instead of Allah’s laws should be implemented. the Quran and hadith are very clear about Allah’s laws, why do you concentrate on minor differences between some sects to justify your disbelief in Allah’s laws?

    “Some will say we should cut the fingers of thief, others will say no we should apply the spirit and not the letter of law. Some will say Quran allows for four marriages, other will say no it allows for only one marriage.”

    lies again. the Quran clearly says cut off the hand of the thief, and four marriages are allowed. if anyone states otherwise, he is denying the verses of Allah, and is hence outside the fold of Islam. i dont know where you get your fantasies about cutting fingers etc. when nobody has ever said that.

    “You probably know that Mawdudi and Fazl ur Rahman (not fazlu but scholar who had to leave Pakistan) differed on many things including the question of riba being interest in modern terms or not. Both were great scholars, knew Arabic and Islamic history very well but they differed.”

    no actually i dont know about that specific disagreement but if either of them said that riba is allowed “in modern times”, then he is making lawful what Allah has made unlawful, which is kufr.

    “If is baecsue of all these differences, I propose that we run the state – not our everyday lives – without religion.”

    “If you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah
    and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is best and
    most commendable in the end” [4:59]

    so instead of referring to Allah and His messenger, you decide to throw away Allah’s laws and His book? does that mean the Quran is no longer relevant because there are disagreements in it?

    “The secular solution is a practical solution. It may not be ideal but it is better than each of us fighting over who is right and who is wrong. Even on this forum we are unable to persuade each other, how can we do so when the issue will be of laws taht will affect milliosn of people?”

    so you’re saying Islamic law is not practical? that Allah sent down His laws as a joke so we could throw them away? the Muslim world was ruled by Islamic law under a caliphate for more than 1300 years, right uptil 1924. there were no problems of whose interpretation to use then? this argument is only used by munafiqs who dont want Islam, and use different arguments against it. do you mean to say Islam is not relevant anymore?

  • imran malik said:

    GUIES ..IGNORE TIPU

    there is a faction among us who really want to undermine the significance of relegion ..they want to ridicule it because they are not willing to follow the hard path…they want to continue there life the way they want it to be without relegious restrictions…and inorder to prove there piont they use the present fiasco of muslim world and western develepment etc etc….

    but little do they know that whatever tough situation may become..truth will always prevail and will hold ..only steadfast people will be able to hold the truth in tyring times……

    western philosophy is doomed…even west is looking for the truth of GOD…they have become sick of man made ideas which always lead to the anrachy and aimlessness

    the quranic verses are the orders from GOD..they encompass every thing ..they r not only for individuals they r for the society as a whole..just bc we have diff of opinion …shld we leave it as it is…no my friend…God didnt revealed his book for one’s individual self..its for the entire humanity

    dont jump to the conclusions on this vv sensitive issue

  • Tipu said:

    @ dear missing pakistan…

    again, which scholars are you talking about? Have you heard of Fazl ur -Rahman, mostly known as Fazl-ur Rahman of Chcago? He had to leave Pakistan because he was not liked by Mawdudi and Co. He is accepted as a great scholar of Islam writing books such as ‘Islam’ and ‘Islam and Modernity’ and ‘Major Themes of the Quran’. This scholar was not in favour of making Islam an ideology of Pakistan. He was also not in favour of Islamic economics because he did not think that the quranic term Ribba can be translated as interest. He translated it as Usury. So your claim that there is no disagreement among scholars is incorrect.
    And, my firnd, even Jinnah wanted a country which would not have Islam as its ideology: have you come across his speech to the Constituent Assembly on August 11, 1947. If not please raed it. I have quoted a passage from it in one of my earlier comments.

    And, who is a ‘normal’ Muslim? I think you do not consider Shias to be ‘normal’ Muslims, that is why you are contradicting me and saying jinnah was a ‘normal’ Muslim. You probbaly know the best biography of Jinnah is by Stanley Wolfort called ‘Jinnah of pakistan’. This is what he writes on page 4: “Jinnah was born a Shiite Muslim Khoja”.

    Acha, I am now going to sleep…
    phir milangay…:)
    and hope you all have taken this discussion in a positive spirit….

  • Traffic said:

    @ Tipu

    do you know anything about an Islamic system of governance? it is one-man rule by khalifah, there is a shoorah which decides on matters by consultation. if there is a difference of opinion on some matter, the scholars gather and decide on it. just like democracy, the majority opinion of the scholars will be accepted. you dont have problems with the majority opinion in democracy, but when Islam is mentioned, you suddenly panic and say that there is difference of opinion and hence it should not be implemented. is there no difference of opinion in a democracy, or does everyone think the same way and have the same opinion? your argument is baseless and hypocritcal and shows your hatred for Islam and Allah’s laws.

  • missing_pakistan said:

    Tipu bhai,

    My brother traffic already gave you some of the answers you asked, in his recent post.

    I hope you will sleep well with the spirit of Iman.

  • Naqash said:

    i dont have any words to condemn dictator , but i believe dictator will see power of the powerless and see end very soon.

  • hassan said:

    My dear all
    You all r true in expressing ur feelings towards the present scenario in pakistan and particularly in the context of this missing pakistanis video, This has been happening here since the military invaded its own country, it is nor ist time but the credit goes to media who brought it to lime light, which is now enchained, and enslaved by military Junta. The need of the hour is not just to express but to act and participate practically, on this open forum u all r invited to devise aplan of action to make our voice more stronger,more efficacious and only this way we can can satisfy our souls and hearts.
    Sorry for getting bit longer but this is the shortest story

  • Hate Pakistan said:

    Islamic Republic of Pakistan hahahaha… Land of Pak people hahahah…

    Shame on Pakistan… i wish i was not a Pakistani…

    I pray for Allah that who ever is involved in this worst treatment to our innocent brothers and sisters, Atleast same should happen to their childrens and we all are able to witness. Inshallah, please Allah please…

  • Raza said:

    Lanat on Musharraf. Such a shame.. Whats the crime of that child and By GOD it made me cry.
    INSHA-ALLAH Sister Amina INSHA ALLAH…. Musharraf is goning to pay for all INJUSTICE which he did too ur Family and to Pakistani ppl.
    Shame on all the other Genrals as well Why is there no one in army who stands up and say that its wrong.

  • Raza said:

    Dear Admin
    Plz keep This video at top of ur Web site as long as possible plz. No matter what other news come from pakistan keep this at top.
    plz also Say some thing in its caption such as “A MUST WATCH”
    So that more and more ppl can watch this and this video sums up everything abt pakistani army and it tells us how bad they r.

    it also shows that why CJ was removed only bcoz He was trying to help these poor ppl.
    MAY ALLAH HELP US ALL.

  • Gulshan said:

    @Tipu:
    I admire your courage and knowledge to accept the challange and take on these Mullafied individuals with Tunnel Vision. But the fact that they are debating the issue in a civil way is quite encouraging. The brain washing by the Mullah Military Alliance will take time to be cured. You are serving Pakistan and muslim folks by giving them a dose of rationality.
    My best wishes for the likes of you. Do not be disheartened when they gang up on you.

  • Gulshan said:

    @traffic:
    You asked Tipu, “do you know anything about an Islamic system of governance?”
    I must admit that having been away from Pakistan for a long time and being relatively free from Mullah brain washing,I do not know much about it.

    But here is a news item reported on Good Morning America:

    A women, in Saudi Arabia (Islamic Governance ?) travelling in a car with a male, other than her family member,was given punishment of 200 lashes and 6 months imprisonment.

    Please discus this issue with your own female family members and see if they want to be so governed?

  • Haris said:

    well done everyone, we always forget who is responsible for all the terrorism acts in pakistan, it is our own people who r being used by the foreign forces, esp indians (i know its far fetched but its the truth). USA, India, England, France, all countries who claim to be stalwarts of Human Rights have regulations that make it legal to detain a terror suspect without any evidence or legal grounds, please bear in mind that these people dont leave any evidence or anything that would help in normal prosecution, so the only way is to pick them up and interrogate them and sometimes confine them for an indefinite period.
    For a safer world

  • Faisal said:

    It is very said to know that such acts are happening in the state of Pakistan whose establishment was based on Islam. We strongly condemn the acts like abducting people and torturing them for nothing. I prey to Allah The Mightest! to return the missing people to there beloved one. May Allah give wisdom and enlight the path for those who are corrupted or mislead. Aamen.

  • altaf aziz said:

    i am altaf from karachi
    kia likhen or kyun likhen yeh politicians
    ager pakistan aaai to kyun
    publicity huii to kyun
    mohabbat to nahin is country sey
    to aik aadmii ka kia
    GOD HELP OUR

  • CJ said:

    While one should sympathize with the unfortunate ones , not all those missing can be presumed innocent. Here’s an example of one of the missing persons and later released..

    ” ….Some of those released, like Muhammad Tariq, 35, have returned home. He is one of the few willing to talk. Tariq acknowledges that he formerly belonged to Jaish-e- Muhammad, a banned extremist group, but says he just gave the group money and was not an active member….”

  • pejamistri said:

    @CJ,
    your remarks shows your lack of human respect, your lack of knowledge and your contempt for rule of law. The issue of missing persons has nothing to do whether a person is terrorist or not, it is the responsibility of agency to produce the person in the court according to the law and charge him with terrorism and if the agency does not have any proof against that person he must be freed by the court. The agencies can keep an eye on that person and try to get some proof against him/her that is what the responsbility of an intelligence agency is. They can keep eyes on 100 judges of superior court , thousands of human rights activits all over the world, why can’t they keep eye on suspected terrorist to get some proof.
    Let me tell I know many people who doesn’t have understanding of human diginity , freedom , liberty and rule of law will not understand this. I am not sure if you belong to that type people if you do , I am sure you will never understand this.

  • shanzonline said:

    An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.

    So in my thinking Mr. Nawaz would be better option for Pakistani than Mr.Mush

  • Traffic said:

    @ Gulshan

    “A women, in Saudi Arabia (Islamic Governance ?) travelling in a car with a male, other than her family member,was given punishment of 200 lashes and 6 months imprisonment.

    Please discus this issue with your own female family members and see if they want to be so governed?”

    who told you saudi arabia is an Islamic country? who told you they are the model to be followed? Saudi Arabia is a MONARCHY, it is not an Islamic state, and they apply shariah selectively, just like Pakistan applies Islamic law selectively, e.g. death for murder. if saudi was an Islamic state, there would be no king who is above the law. people like you spring up every now and then to scar people from Islam, let me tell you that the caliphate under shariah has existed for well over 1300 years, right uptil 1924 when mustapha kemal ataturk (who happens to be the ideal of musharraf) dismembered it and established the secular state of turkey. this generation of Muslims thinks that a caliphate is impossible because they have been made to believe so by the ruling classes, even though it was a reality just about 80 years ago, and inshallah it will return, no matter if you munafiqs and the kuffar hate it, because it is the promise of Allah and His prophet. we are living in the last stage of tyranny and after this is the khilafah again inshallah.

  • Waqar said:

    These are the trying times for true Muslims of the world. That is, Muslims with Imaan. As history has shown time and time again even in the time of bani-israil, only the innocent and God Fearing and those of have reached a certain level of Imaan were tested in such ways as the people who disappear without a trace.
    While these acts of human rights violation are disgusting beyond words especially coming from a so-called muslim country, the brighter side of the issue is that these people who are being abducted and tortured are chosen by Allah. If they die, they would be true Shaheed and if they live, they will be true Mujahids. And this is my message to their loved ones. Do not despair, Allah is not unjust, this is a test (fitna) for you and have sabar like bibi hajra did in her tryal. Look what rewards Allah has given her in dunya…. millions follow her sunnah when performing Umra and Hajj. So be patient brothers and sisters and turn to Allah and HIS Book. These are the times to revive your imaan (which is actually the fruit of knowledge) so that there will be so many true muslims that they will not even think of abducting anyone else. Insha Allah.

  • CJ said:

    nice commentary peja. Ofcourse only u are smart enough to understand the issues of human respect, knowledge and rule of law. Let me ask you this..why is this issue of missing persons suddenly become such a hot topic for debate…did these intelligence agencies suddenly appear overnight and start taking ppl off the streets. This has been happening under every govt in the past be it BB or NS aka ‘political repression’. So why can’t u stand up and condemn one and all or is there a motive behind just critizing the Musharraf govt? Why only pick up on the current govt? And don’t give me the crap that under NS and BB the agencies were living angels…can you prove that people never disappeared under NS and BB’s rule by the same intelligence agencies? also this video was made sometime in feb/march…y suddenly all the fuss now?

  • Traffic said:

    @ Gulshan

    oh and btw, the charges on that woman are not just travelling in a car with a man, but charges of adultery. God why cant you munafiqs ever speak the full truth. i dont know if those charges are true or not, but please do not twist facts for your agenda. and this just proves that the saudi govt is not following shariah. they are not following shariah but giving punishments from their own desire. the punishment for adultery is 100 lashes in Islam, while they added another 100 lashes because she used the media to publicise the case. so there you go, saudi is NOT a muslim country.

  • pejamistri said:

    @CJ
    Your comments are not even worth reading. And I honestly did not read them. People like yourself are hopeless cases. So you are now in my ignore list.

  • Traffic said:

    @ Waqar

    totally agree with you bro

  • CJ said:

    Peja…if you ‘honestly’ did not read my comments how did you even know they were not worth reading :) …it’s time people like you stopped lying to yourself and to others. I hope you and others will ‘honestly’ criticize ‘all’ the parties involved i.e BB, NS and Mush for bringing this sad situation to where it is today and not just the ones you like to pick and choose for whatever personal agenda you have. At this time it’s you who appears on my list of a ‘hopeless’ and ‘helpless’ case with your biased comments

  • Traffic said:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k2aX-9j6H8

    nice documentary.

  • Abu Sumayia said:

    Our hearts and minds and duaa’s are with you, Oh people of Pakistan, May Allah (SWT) help you to find your loved ones.

    Please curse Musharaf after every Namaz, curse him that his children suffer the same faith, his children, his family should be hanged publically. This dictator is worst that Changez Khan and Halaqoo, as they were at least sincere with their own people. This cruel dictator is killing his own people.

    Since we have seen the suffering of the innocent people, we can not sleep at night, my 13 years old son gets up at night and curses Musharaf, we curse this dictator on our dinner table, after our Namaz, Oh my beloved Nation, please do it regularly, this man is worst than Bush, at least he is sincere to his own people. May Allah (SWT) forgive mine and our Nation’s collective mistakes / sins and has His Mercy on us. Aameen.

    It is our duty to fight for the rights of every single Pakistani, who has been put in prison by this tyrant. Those sisters, who have been dragged on road are our sisters, those brothers who have been brutally beaten up on roads are our brothers. Daughters of the Nation have suffered enough. It should not happen anymore. Get up my youngster and drag this tyrant from Presidency and drag him on road, as he has ordered to drag others, bring him to justice.

  • Traffic said:

    guys if this video touches your heart about the fate of Muslims, then watch this documentary as well please. it will make you cry.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k2aX-9j6H8

  • Tanweer Amjad said:

    @peja
    Don’t worry I have read completely the comments bu CJ, so you did the right decision. He is just trying to distract people.
    We can not keep this debate that 8 years were similar to 1990s, and reject the democracy. things have been changed. How many new ministers (strong one) you could find in the current Musharraf regime. Sheikh Rashid was an equally strong minister. Ejazul Haq was also a minister. So were Ch Shujaat, Pervez elahi, Humayun Akhter, Sherpao, sher Afgan and lot of others. How can you reject 90s democracy and at the same time pay salute to Musharraf’s regime with all strong ministers the same? Do you want me to discuss the status of Shaukat Aziz, Muhammad Ali Durrani, Wasi Zafar and the other new ones?

  • Tanweer Amjad said:

    The 1990s situation was not that good as well, but i think with the media brought some awareness, politicians learnt somewhat some lesson, democracy should work better but in the absence of Musharraf or similar minded person.

  • pejamistri said:

    In Pakistan we are playing snake and ladder game with democracy , we take one step upwards on the ladder under the politician rule. and then after 7-10 years a general (snake) comes and bites us and we go done 20-25 steps.
    I am sure with the realization in media , judiciary and lawyers , we are going to take out his teeth and poison so that it can not bit us anymore.

  • Tipu said:

    @ dear traffic…

    not that it will help you at-least have the humility to realise taht you too are human and perhaps your understanding is flawed …still let me point out a contardiction in your reply to Gulshan…

    you wrote “let me tell you that the caliphate under shariah has existed for well over 1300 years, right uptil 1924 when mustapha kemal ataturk (who happens to be the ideal of musharraf) dismembered it and established the secular state of turkey.”

    ANd before this comment you wrote “Saudi Arabia is a MONARCHY, it is not an Islamic state,”

    Now my friend, this 1300 years of Khilafa that you are talking about, do you even know the names of the dynasties? The Ummayads, the Abbassids, the Ottomans…were they not monarchies and hereditaries?
    Kiya tumhari baat may khula tazaad nahi?…:)
    You will not know, but top Muslim scholars have called the post- Khilafat-e-Rashida period as Mulikiyat rather than khilafat precisely for this reason.

    Yaar, tum ko tu Musharraf ki cabinet may hona chaiey tha, jo samajh ata hai likhtay ho. Na history ka pata hai na Shariah ka.

    btw, and again you would not know this but in the 11th century there were three Muslim Khalifas at one time: The Abbassids in Baghdad, the Fatmimids in Cairo and the Umayyads in Cordoba.

    Kuch scholarship wali books parho…Islam and islamic history is not what you read in your Islamiyat classes and heard from military controlled Ulema and PTV.

    and, another thing, dare you not talk about my or anyone’s belief and commitment to Islam. Talk about what we write but don’t get personal.
    May I request the Admin to take note of such writers and warm them.

    Tipu

  • Aamir Yaseen said:

    May Allah Bring these people home and Punish the people who are responsible for all this.

  • waseem Khan said:

    I am a Pakistani, I Feel really shamed on our Gov Activities. I beleave that this Army lives on Pakistani Money, But they think that there are the owner of people.I wish that one day all young blood come on road that through them from where they belong too and never be able to come out. I really Hate this Fucken Army.They are fucken Killers recruit by the country for killing Animies but they start killing our own Country Fellows. because thety know they are Cowards.

  • Not Needed said:

    Ghazi….let me guess your age umm 16? or less maybe

  • Traffic said:

    @ Tipu

    since you couldnt find any replies to my post to you, you choose to concentrate on my “contradictions” in my post to Gulshan. ok ill clarify that out to you as well.

    “Now my friend, this 1300 years of Khilafa that you are talking about, do you even know the names of the dynasties? The Ummayads, the Abbassids, the Ottomans…were they not monarchies and hereditaries?
    Kiya tumhari baat may khula tazaad nahi?…:)
    You will not know, but top Muslim scholars have called the post- Khilafat-e-Rashida period as Mulikiyat rather than khilafat precisely for this reason.”

    i know very well that this period was not on the guidance of the prophet (saw) and that it was mulukiyat, but it was still under shariah law nevertheless, although not completely, because of the fact that it was hereditary. the saudis however are not just un-islamic because of kingdom, they apply shariah very selectively. for instance the Quran forbids Muslims to take the jews and christians as their protectors over the believers, however the saudis have invited american troops on their soil and take them as their protectors, this is just one examle. anyways the reason i mentioned this period was because you said we cant have shariah law as there will be a problem of whos shariah to follow and henc Islamic system is not practical. i pointed out that period to show that Islamic Shariah can very well be applied because all those 1300 years, there was never a problem about “whose shariah to apply”, because there is only ONE shariah and that is the Quran and the sunnah. no problems of interpretations were there then, which couldnt be solved by the scholars. so your argument is fawed.

    “Yaar, tum ko tu Musharraf ki cabinet may hona chaiey tha, jo samajh ata hai likhtay ho. Na history ka pata hai na Shariah ka.

    Kuch scholarship wali books parho…Islam and islamic history is not what you read in your Islamiyat classes and heard from military controlled Ulema and PTV.”

    useless bullsh*t again. now you have started accusing me of being in cahoots with the army and their ulema. thats what you people usually do when you dont have any logical argument, just accuse the other person of being a mullah and ignorant. for the record i am in favour of disbanding the army, killing all present generals for their role in treason and murder, as well the MMA mullahs and other politicians who support them, so there u go. since you know so much about history and shariah, tell me which shariah allows human-beings to legislate laws instead of Allah and in which period of Islamic history was secularism and “democracy” applied to Muslim lands? dont give me your bullsh*t about me being ignorant about shariah when you are in favour of abandoning shariah, which is kufr if you ask any scholar(except maybe the ISI-funded javed ghamdi types that you follow) :)

    “Prophethood (meaning Muhammad (SAW) himself) will remain with you for as long as Allah wills it to remain, then Allah will raise it up whenever he wills to raise it up. Afterwards, there will be a Caliphate that follows the guidance of Prophethood remaining with you for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then, He will raise it up whenever He wills to raise it up. Afterwards, there will be a reign of violently oppressive [The reign of Muslim kings who are partially unjust] rule and it will remain with you for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then, there will be a reign of tyrannical rule and it will remain for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then, Allah will raise it up whenever He wills to raise it up. Then, there will be a Caliphate that follows the guidance of Prophethood. The Prophet stopped speaking.”
    [As-Silsilah As-Sahihah, vol. 1, no. 5]

  • Gulshan said:

    @Traffic:
    Tipu has given you the historical facts vs your Mullafied Bull Sh*t. Be honest and admit that he knows the history and he knows what he talking about.
    You said, “we are living in the last stage of tyranny and after this is the khilafah again inshallah.”
    I don’t know about the first part of your statment because Tyrants (Military Dictators) and their Croonies (Mullas) will continue to exist and tyranny will never end.
    But I do have a correction to the second part i.e. “After This Is The Khilafah Again”.
    This should be, ” After This is the civilized world and Democracy”.

  • Traffic said:

    @ Tipu

    oh and about the last hadith i mentioned, after prophethood, we have the khulafa-e-rashda, and after that we had the oppressive rule of the dyansties which you mentioned. when they were finished we are now living under the rule of tyrants, which will also soon finish inshallah, and then there will be a caliphate again, which will be on the guidance of the Prophethood. so people like you can scream and shout all they want about shariah not being relevant today and abandoning Allah’s laws, the promise of Allah and His messenger will come to pass. all other systems will be destroyed and Islam will reign supreme in the end, ONLY BECAUSE Allah’s laws are perfect and the Quran is meant to be followed, not just read over you when you die and placed over the bride’s head when she gets married.

  • Traffic said:

    lol this is funny. Tipu gives his replies concerning my posts to Gulshan and Gulshan hands it over to Tipu. why cant you two answer to the posts i have written to YOU, its kind of hard to juggle between the both of you, becuase you guys keep shifting.

    and this guy Gulshan instead of arguing logically(which he thinks people who differ from his opinions are incapable of), just accuses you of being mullah and calls your whole argument “bullsh*t” without actually replying to it, and once again hands over the ball to Tipu. lol funny sh*t

  • Aamir said:

    Alone, the CJ of Pakistan showed all the world the real worth of a army general who claims, “mujhe dar nahi lagta he” by refusing to resign and throwing it back on his face. showing how vulnarable and week a general is. BRAVO!!! But where are we? it is time to show the generals that enough is enough. they are watch dogs and when dogs start to bite the owner, the DOG gets shot. it is simple. Generals, leave us alone. and you know what , these people are just 15 to 20 and have made hostage 16 million. wasi zafar, tariq azeem, shaukat aziz, durrani and many others are now in the hiding waiting to be beaten up as badly as this video contents. but again, the question is who will take the first step and when. how do we comminicate to device strategies to hit these weakest clan of wild dogs.

  • Gulshan said:

    @Traffic:
    I admit that I do not have enough knowledge of Islamic History and so I pointed you towards Tipu. All I know about Islam is what our parents told us and some of our own reading. Being raised mostly in a Mullah Free Society, I have the freedom to explore of my own while believing in the existence and supermacy of the Almighty. And this has been passed on to our children too.
    Based upon the existing conditions prevailing in the world, I will be honest with you that I am not proud to be a Muslim. We condemn America day and night and burn and tramp over American Flags to hurt the feeling of average American. And yet, whenever we have a natural disaster in any Islamic Country, Indonesia,Bangladesh or Pakistan etc., these same very American Open their heart and send all kind of help for the suffering. Our thousands of Billions of oil dollars are being used only to maintain the Harams of the Custodinas of Islam, open Grand Mosques and terrorist training schools (read Madarssas). I oppose US foreign policy but given same financial and Military Strength to an Islamic Nation, we will act thousand time worse than Hitler.
    Look around the world, wherever there is chaos, bloodshed and mass scale rape and murder, today’s Islam is the common factor. It is hard to defend our Islamic faith with ill treatment of women right from the time of Profit. Can’t justify to our children, leave aside people of other faiths, as to why our Prophet will marry an 11-12 year old girl when he was 65 or so and already had at least a dozen wives. And then this girl was almost his daughter i.e. his brother’s Daughter. Then he also married his son’s wife after forcing him to divorce her. The fact is that god has created male and female roughly half and half ( actually fewr women than men) So, if men are allowed to have a multiple wives, logically speaking, will not that translate to Homo Sexuality? Argument given is that widows will get protection as third or fourth wife. But that is not how it is practiced.
    We call Quaran as Allah’s message and command. What makes us think that Budhists, Christians, Jews, Hindus and Parsi’s don’t have their scripture as God’s Message.It is a matter of faith and every one can have their own. But they are not using sword to impose their faith on us. We have been doing it. Just read the Sikh history as a proof. And when somebody tells the truth our clergy wants to supress it by threats and disruptions.
    With all this great religion of ours, oil wealth,Islamic Goverance and all the other wonderful things, the fact is that Islamic world has the highest child mortality rate and shortest span of life for women. We can call ourselves as PAK or Pak Musalman or believer and proclaim self righteousness and superiority, but the fact is we have as many if not more of crooks, bribe takers, robbers and drug producers and drug pushers and murderes and rapists as the so called non believers. And the so called non believers have as many if not more of righteous people as we have.
    So my brother, it is time to get off our high horses and start realising that while the basic tenets of our faith we should follow, the religion should evolve with time and place. Those who don’t change with time are doomed.
    Islam has nothing to fear from outside. Our clergy is becoming its worst enemy. Al Queda, Taliban and Lal Masjid are some of the self created pre production samples of our future.
    My apology for drifting way from the subject, but you brought the religion on this board.
    The Truth must be told.

  • SomeOne said:

    When we will see Power of the Powerless . I hope soon in my life. Please get united and become a strength.

  • Aamir said:

    Ali Khan and likes are the ones who make the Tamed Dogs into Wild Dogs, hence making them feel justified about their brutal acts.

    Job of my chowkidar is to warn and protect me from intruders, but if he chooses to take over me and my house, i will retaliate to the best of my ability.

    i am happy to read that most Pakistanis are aware and atleast condemn if nothing else. i was talking to policemen on 6 Nov 2007 who were trying to stop PPP ldr to reach Liaqat Bagh. They are ALL shit scared. Some want to run away some were vocal about criticising musharaf and many abusing the dictator. But all of this ends no where. we are still being beaten by these illetrate black and khaki skinned haeenas. can anyone believe that the educated people are being beaten brutally. But by whom?? bunch of uneducated, ugly, no morals, hungrary and above all SCARED RATS of Govt.

    This govt has proved that it can eat its prey while its still alive and also while the prey is trying to unleash themselves from the dirty filthy claws of ISI.

    Not sure who we are writing and talking about? its YOU and ME, our loved ones -friends and THE Normal & poor people living around us.
    WE SPIT ON YOUR FACE mushraf. (his name does not deserve a capital ‘M’)

  • Sarah said:

    I’d like to say that I am truely amazed with thid documentary. I have lived for 18 years in Lahore and I never knew about the filth that exsisted within reach. To give some moral support to the loved ones of the people missing, don’t lose hope. The people who commited such a sinful act of torture, will be punished themselves. God is never unfair. It’s his world, he’s watching each and every thing. Also, heaven has already made place for those who have been hurt and mistreated during their journey.
    I’d also like to say that people like Wasi are only in the government to make black money. He should sit at home and wash dishes or clean houses. He is a woman. He would know if something like this happens to his family. He should first learn some English and get some what of information on the field he’s boasting about. I have never seen such a terrible goverment official.
    At one time I used to b proud of Musharaff and our country, but now I am only disgusted. W edon’t have our own mind, we only can do what Bush tells us to. No wonder our neighboring countries have all succeeded and we’re left behind in corruption and deceitful acts.
    To the makers of this documentary, thank you for opening our eyes.

  • Aamir said:

    Imagine how would the following look like if all are made to wear dhotis and yellow patkas on their screwd heads and then made to clean cow shit on the roads and villages of Pakistan :-

    1. mush
    2. wasi zafar
    3. tariq azeem
    4. durrani
    5. sh rashid
    6. omer ayub
    7. roa sikander
    8. hamayun akhtar
    9. and many others i dont even want to waste my time on.

  • nota said:

    USA Today: Outcry swells over Pakistan’s secret prisons

    Javed Iqbal Cheema, director of the Interior Ministry’s National Crisis Management Cell, says Pakistan has 200 prisoners in secret detention. Amnesty International puts “enforced disappearances” at more than 2,000.

    The families of the disappeared say their loved ones deserve their day in court. “The government says they are terrorists: OK, prove it,” says lawyer Basharat Ullah Khan.

    Amnesty International has been scathing. “Pakistan’s involvement in the U.S.-led ‘war on terror’ has been characterized by widespread violations of human rights,” it reported this month. “Mass arrests of terror suspects — often for bounties of thousands of dollars — have led to detainees being taken away to the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, transferred to secret CIA detention centers, unlawfully transferred to other countries or held in arbitrary and often secret detention in Pakistan itself. Many — if not most … have been tortured or otherwise ill-treated.”

    The families of the disappeared found an ally in Chaudhry. Furious at the security forces’ refusal to justify detentions, he ordered them to file cases against the disappeared by Nov. 13 or face charges.

    Ten days before the deadline, Musharraf imposed the emergency and put Chaudhry under house arrest. “We got a ray of hope from the chief justice,” Khatoon says. “Now, I have lost my hope for Pakistan. … I want to wake up the whole world and get my son back.”

    Amina Masood has clashed with police and broken down before the Supreme Court. “The cat has become a tiger,” she says. “I have to snatch my dear back.”

  • Traffic said:

    @ Gulshan

    wow you have a lot of hatred for Islam and our Prophet (peace be upon him). you not only dont have knowledge about Islamic history, but also very little knowledge about Islam itself, hence your hateful fascist approach to Muslims. you have grown up in a Mullah-free(in other words american media-brainwashed) society and you have heaped so many accusations that each one of them requires a long discussion (the Prophet’s wife e.g.), which frankly i dont have the time to go into. if you go to any Islamic website, they will answer all your misconceptions about Islam and our Holy Prophet(pbuh), you need to really start thinking, it is you who has been brain-washed into believing that Islam and Muslims are evil. if that was so, Islam wouldnt be the fastest growing religion in the world with tens of thousands of people converting every year, especially in America and the West. i live in Britain, and i have personally seen quite a few non-Muslims convert in my own university. all i can say is Allah guides whom He wills, and for those whom He sends astray, there is no-one who can guide them. may Allah guide you to Islam. peace.

  • Traffic said:

    @ Gulshan

    oh and about your comments about how good the Americans are, helping us with all their aid money, im sorry but i dont think you know much about the world outside your country. did you know that Americans are the biggest arm-suppliers to the world, and they have killed millions of people, more than any other country in the world. ill quote from a post above, from brother nota:

    Well, see a PARTIAL list of victims of US Foreign Policy:
    http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa06.html
    (no, these numbers are not exaggerated, actually quite the opposite)

    And please do read “American Empire for Dummies� by William Blum at http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=2517, that is if you can handle the truth.
    Excerpt:
    “The State Department recently held a conference on how to improve America’s image abroad in order to reduce the level of hatred; image is what they’re working on, not change of policies. But the policies scorecard reads as follows: From 1945 to the end of the century, the United States attempted to overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populist movements fighting against insufferable regimes. In the process, the US bombed about 25 countries, caused the end of life for several million people, and condemned many millions more to a life of agony and despair.”

    open up your mind a bit, stop feeding your mind with the media propaganda and you will realize that America is not the good ole’ freedom-spreading country that you have been brought up to believe in. there is a reason why people all over the world burn american flags.

    and please do not give me crap about “if muslims had those resources they would do 1000 times worse than hitler”. lets look at facts and not your fantasies and imaginations about what would happen if muslims came to power. Islam was once a superpower and they never acted even close to the way Americans have brought death and destruction to the world. infact if you read up history you will find out that Europe learned from the Muslims, and their Enlightenment period was inspired from Islam. please stop watching fox news and get educated about the history of the world and current affairs as well. until then dont come here and post your ill-concieved hatred of Islam based on your ignorance.

  • Traffic said:

    @ Gulshan

    “Based upon the existing conditions prevailing in the world, I will be honest with you that I am not proud to be a Muslim. We condemn America day and night and burn and tramp over American Flags to hurt the feeling of average American.”

    oh poor americans, getting their feelings hurt when somebody burns their flag. ever thought about why people burn their flags all over the world (not just Muslims)? ever thought about the millions of people they have killed all over the world and the homes they have destroyed by launching wars based on lies and deciet?

  • nota said:

    @Gulshan:
    “Look around the world, wherever there is chaos, bloodshed and mass scale rape and murder, today’s Islam is the common factor.”

    Please open your eyes…I say:
    “Look around the world, wherever there is chaos, bloodshed and mass scale rape and murder, US Empire is the common factor.”

    At least have the courage to read two links I posted above (and below) and still stand by your statement.
    PARTIAL list of victims of US Foreign Policy

    “American Empire for Dummies� by William Blum

  • nota said:

    @Traffic
    Apologies :) you beat me to it :) Thanks!

  • Haris said:

    @ pejamistri and all those who think that our intelligence agencies dont do their job properly, peja bhaee, terrorist kaa haal tumnay america, england, india, aur european countries mein dekha hai, this happens all over the world, u hav no right while sitting at home to criticize the few who do their job properly, terrorists operate in cells independent of each other, let me just tell u a secret , some of the nan and roti vendors in karachi and all over pakistan are financing terrorism, they get money, develop contacts with locals and then carry out their acts, i guess u r forgetting abt guantanamo bay and the secret CIA jails in europe, the countries who call themselves the stalwarts of human rights, missing persons r not missing, but rather they r taken off the street to keep u ppl safe, read real accounts of proven terrorists, their friends and neighbors couldnt believe their eyes when they found abt them. they are smarter then u think they are, and they work for governments, in our instance indian and israeli. pray for our country and if u hav the guts then go and give ur vote, dont tell me its all rigged n all, give ur vote then come and talk abt pakistan

  • nota said:

    Just rereading part of Blum’s article above the following jumped at me again in the context of what we are trying to do and those of us looking towards America for help — Please keep this in mind:

    “the United States attempted to overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populist movements fighting against insufferable regimes.

    Don’t worry right now though as “the movement” is not that big yet… :)

  • Traffic said:

    @ Haris

    if they are really terrorists, why doesnt the government bring them to court and convict them? on what basis are they accusing someone to be a terrorist? i sincerely hope the intelligence agencies pick u someone from your family, and from the families of all those who support this inhumanity. then you will find out how it feels having your loved one missing and not even knowing if hes alive or dead. i pray that happens to you, then you will feel the pain of these people which we all are feeling. you have no humanity in you.

  • Traffic said:

    @ nota

    no problem bro. Gulshan is a brain-washed idiot who thinks the Muslims are coming to get him. i used some of your posts to get him home to the point.

  • Haris said:

    hahahahaha traffic boi, i m responsible for picking 4 terrorists, so shut up boi

  • Traffic said:

    @ Haris

    “hahahahaha traffic boi, i m responsible for picking 4 terrorists, so shut up boi”

    if i understood correctly, you just admitted you are an ISI agent. sorry to disappoint you, but i dont live in Pakistan where you can pick me up and nobody would see me again.

  • CJ said:

    @Tanweer & Peja

    If one says something against Mush, everyone suddenly starts cheering, but when the same corruption charges are mentioned against BB or NS the so called democratic leaders, it’s called ‘distraction’. I would call it the ‘truth’. So please stop this false propoganda and come out and unanimously criticize each of the past govts for their failures which has led to the situation today. If you say that these 8 years were worse than democracy, here is what NY Times had in an article when supporters of then Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif climbed over iron gates and stormed the Supreme Court building, forcing the court to suspend contempt proceedings against the Prime Minister.

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C01E5DE103AF93AA15752C1A961958260&n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/People/S/Sharif,%20Nawaz

    Also read Ardeshir Cowasjee’s article in dawn.

    http://www.dawn.com/weekly/cowas/20010408.htm

  • Haris said:

    traffic boi, there are departments other then the famed or defamed ISI, u may not even know them, and UK is a country from where we can easily extradite anyone we suspect, UK and Pak are signatories of an extradition treaty since the 1989, take care traffic

  • Tipu said:

    Hi traffic,

    I was teaching the whole day and hence could not come online…
    I will not deal with what you and Gulshan have started but would like to come back to history.

    You say, my friend, thay the 1300 years of khilafat was still good beacuse Sharia was fully applied while SArabia is applying is it selectively.

    Ok. Tell me where in the sharia is hereditary monarchy justified? Ummayad, Abbasid, Fatimid, Ottomans all of them were hereditary. Under which Sharia were they ruling as hereditary monarchy?

    Tell me where in Sharia it is acceptable that an Alim of the calibre of Ibn Hanbal is lashed and put in jail? (Probbaly you would not know what I am talking about so for your reference I am talking about the ninth century when under Caliph Mamon was imposing his policy of Mihna (do you know what it is?) and Ibn Hanbal (the founder of Hanbli school of law) opposed it. As a result Mamon, the Caliph you think was ruling under full Sharia, put him in jail.)

    My friend, the Sharia was applied only in name just like in pakistan today we have constitution only in name. The Capilh was theoretically supposed to be the guardian of Shria. In reality they were the greatest flunderers of Sharia. And Ulema, like the Ulema of today fully supported him. Please the work of Professor Mubarak Ali called ‘Ulema our siyasat’.

    Read the works of Juwayni and Al-Ghazzali and you will see how depleted the Caliphate was. The only reason these scholars did not ask people to rebel against the caliphs was because they believed that even a rule of a tyrant was better than the chaos that might be created by rebellion.

    My friend, in fact you can go to very early period and see that Sharia was not applied even then. Who was right when Caliph Yazid, yes, again, the calipha who you think were ruling within Sharia, was murdering Imam Hussain? Who do you think was following Sharia when Imam-Caliph Ali and Bi Bi Ayesha were fighting in the battle of Jamal?

    Look, I am not making vague, generalised statements. What I believe in and am proposing is beacuse I have read actual history and not its whitewashed version. I request you that instead of talking in the air and only by quoting Quran and Hadith (which tell us what we should do but not what actually happened which was very different), talk about history. Be concrete and specific.

    Again, in response to Gulshan you have started calling him/her (since i do not know) enemy of Islam. I request the Admin again that such allegations should have no place in this forum and that he should warn such people.

    Tipu

    Tipu

  • Ahmed (South Korea) said:

    Assalmoelekum,
    Dear ALL

    Although this is real massacre done by Muslims against Muslims (film of operation against Bengalis) the narrators and the speakers in this film have very lightly mentioned that the Genocides by others like Americans on Blacks (from 18th-20th century), Hiroshima & Nagasaki, Vietnamese 19, by Serbs in Bosnia, by Russia in Afghanistan, by India during establishment of 2 countries, by Japan in 2nd WW, etc. were great examples of genocides.

    There may be some exaggerations but more importantly the point to be understood is that as humans, Pakistani nation and above all, Muslims have committed such sinister that can not washed off from the minds of upcoming generations of that ethnic group which once was our part.

    We have had a histroy of committing things again and again and even this attitude is once more being reflected in the widespread regions of our homeland for e.g. the War of others which we brought ourselves into our region (North and South Waziristan and Swat) and made as if it’s our own and the brutal dealings with Balochs have started overcasting the deadly prospects which seam of having only an obscure end. Please for see the consequences and condemn and try to spread the message of harmony as much as possible among Pakistani communities at home and abroad. At last i will consider it my duty to explain that it is/was not solely the Army, but it is the whole nation standing behind this scene. We must think about our whole nation. I am sorry to say that if the conditions go on same way for 5-10 more years then we may be watching more peaces of our country and nobody will be living with peace then as our enemies have their greatest dream to see us die and they will not leave any thing to exterminate us.

    Hope you people will spread this message among Pakistani communities living in homeland and abroad.
    Thanks and Assalamoelekum,

  • mateen said:

    Unless the police/security services and polititians are brought to justice this will go on for ever. Is there a single mainstream polititian who has taken up the cause of these unfortunate citizens of so called pak land ? The answer is ofcourse NO. Lip service for media do not get justice. They all are happy with their aircon. houses and Pijaro’s and what happens to common man is not their business. I promise you, you hang five polititians and senior police officers in that country and you will see the transformation. You have to snatch justice, it will not be given to you; not if we continue to elect/select these b……. again and again and hope one day things will improve.

  • mateen said:

    Yes that is the caliber of the so called leaders of this unfortunate country. What do we expect then?

  • muhammad s said:

    OH MY LORD. Ya Allah. How low are we going to sink? Please forgive us for our weakness. The little girl crying for her brother made me cry like never before. I sincerely pray to Him SWT to punish the ones responsible for this heinous act. I mean, how come?? Have we lost all senses. Are we now worst than animals??
    Oh Allah You listen to the oppressed. Please please please help them.
    amen

  • sajad said:

    This is a real Pakistan. A shame Govt, A shame army, A shame Political leaders and a corrupt system. All these things are from us and thus truly represent us as a shame nation.A nation who can’t ask the right of their sisters, daughter, brother and father as shown in video. How this country will have blessing from Allah where a young son is disrespected in front of his mother and the rest of the people were watching. But we will forget this as we have forgotten more worse situations than this before and this make us a shame nation and Pakistan as failed state.

    Honestly Pakistan integrity and security are all the time in great danger than indian or any other enemy nation’s army

    I am sorry if my comments heart but all of this is true.

  • sajad said:

    sorry the second para of my first comment will be read like this

    Honestly Pakistan integrity and security are all the time in great danger from its own army than Indian or any other enemy nation’s army

  • Humayun said:

    Allah is looking and will one day tighten the rope which has been left loose for Musharaf for a long time…..

  • Waqar said:

    This is about how the mass media distorts the truth and how the jews are taking over palestine. the title is:

    Peace, Propaganda & The Promised Land
    Part 1:
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=eCL6WdnuNp4
    Part 2
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=mo2HW4T7wK4

    Now you know how much truth is shown on media.

  • Tariq said:

    Dear Muslims Brother

    Asalmoalikum

    I Have read all Comments and Constantly Thinking That What our nation Thinking. Their Sense Level, There Maturity Level even There Judgment Level, i am sorry to say, is going toward down. We have no approach. We have no mindSet for out nation . We think rigth to those peoples Who is involve in Conspiracy against Pakistan. I Just Say That For God Sake You grow your minds. Never Think from one side. Alway Keep Pakistan First because We are suffering From our neighbours . We love Afghanistan but Afghnis(i Dam On Them), They hate Us. we Love West Media, West Cultue But They are DeStabllizing Pakistan. Lal Masjid Case , Who were funding them, GEO Tv Who are funding Them. I Really Worry about the Nation That they can not Thing right about themselves . America is trying to Destablizing Pakistan and For this Western Funding is continusily coming to Pakistan. Who Supports Lawyers , Who Supports GEO Media. Think about it. Just tell me that It is good thing That Our Lawyers Break the laws. is it good That when decesion comes in favor of Cheif Justice then Judiciary is Independent if Decision comes in favor of general Musharraf then Supreme Court Will Be Fired What is That Behavior . That is totally Controlling by Western Lobby.

    For God Sake Try TO Islam. Islam Never Permits That You Spread Anarchy(FISAAD).

  • Tariq said:

    I am Surprise That How peoples Say Comments and Relate To Allah, That Allah Do This, Allah Do This, Allah Punish His First Of All See yourSelf That What You are. Have you any Work on Which you Will Proud Your Self In Front Of Allah. Have you Ever Done JEHAAD, Have you Ever Fought For ISLAM, Have you Ever Go Out From your House For Islam . And Simple Answer For All These Question is NOOOOOOOOOO. So On What Basis you Impose Your Thoughts Towards Allah. So keep You Mouth Shut and Try TO improve your Self after that When you will be eligible then Comments on Peoples. and Final i Would Say A True Muslim Never use Abuse Language For Other Muslim . And The Peoples Who Has Sympathey For LAL masjid peoples. First Study The islam, Study The Struggles Of Hazrat Muhammad Mustaffa SAW (Sallul-Lahu-Alahi-Wasalam),Study The Behavior Of Sahaba, At That Time Muslims Like you Cheater peoples Use Offensive Language For Hazrat Abu Bakar , Hazarat Umar-E-Farooq,Hazrat Usman Ghani and Hazrat Ali. Can you Tell Me That were They can be Wrong (NauzuBillah). So Try You mind to Thing Positive and Get Reality That Islam Never Spread like this Type of attitude Which is used by LAL masjid Peoples. You Should See That Crowd On RAYEE – WAND Tableeghi Ijtima,Multan TABLEEGHI Ijtima . That is the Thing Which is Totally according to Sunnat. So keep Touch yourselefves with Tableegh That you recognize that who is wrong and who is right.

    Allah Hum sub ko Deen kay Mutabiq Chulayee . Aur Jo Bhi Leader ho us ko Acha kerney Ki taufeeq Firmayee . Aur Muslim ko Phir Say Duniya May Surkhoro Furmayee

    Ammeen Sum Ameen

  • antinifaaq said:

    I have been a quiet reader until now but Mr. Tariq’s tableegh in favour of the general has caused my blood to boil and now I have to speak out.

    First of all, I would request all pkpolitics readers to avoid any religious discussion on the forum. We all are muslims and Islam is in our way of thinking and we don’t have to tell others, that we are better than you because we go to tableeghi tours.

    Mr. Tariq, with your retarded tableeghi mind, you are not the only one here who understands Islam. According to my understanding of Islam, General Musharraf, from the very beginning of his usurping of power has committed a crime, known as muhaarba in Quran. Sura almaeda suggests punishments for muhaarba, which range from the hardest punishment of putting to a painful death (like stoning to death) to the mildest punishment of expelling from the land. The one who breaks and keeps on breaking the supreme law of the land is the one who is causing fasaad fil ard. The whole civil society, lawyers, media and judges are mazloom in the terms of Quran and according to Quran, cursing is bad except when a mazloom does it. Please revise your understanding of fasaad fil ard.

  • antinifaaq said:

    I just realized, that Mr. Tariq’s way of thinking may give us a clue, how Maulana Fazlurrahman may be thinking. Just imagine, how retarded these minds are.

  • jehanzeb said:

    I have a real life example where my x-servant’s 16 yr old kid vanished for 4 months.. they blamed the agencies and everyone cried and went on with their lives in shambles.. then suddenly one day he got back frm a terrorist camp.. he is still in shock after the passage of 6 months..
    so these things do happen and we cant blame the agencies all the time.. but ofcourse i am not defending them aswell i am making myself accountable.. what have I done to stop this? NOTHING :(

    we know the problem.. illiteracy!!
    the thing is how r we going to come over it.. but we r doing nothing but crying in this forum.. and tht is the best we can do..

    in the last 60 yrs we have probably gone 60 steps behind rather then ahead.. and me and u hav not contributed one bit to it.. we have accepted it as our fate so y dwell on it?

    the point is how can we make ammends to this? one thing seems certain to me.. democracy is not made for us.. not for now atleast.. all instituitions are under performing.. how many of u are CSS officers and hav brought in a change? how many of u r willing to become one to bring a change? we know abt the US influence what do u think we can do to avoid it? if thr was someone else in the capacity in 2001, do u think would hav been different.. no sir i dont think soo.. what have we become? a laughing stock for the world.. and we r joing them rather doing anything to put a stop to this..

    good old gentlemen say nice stuff on media.. but y didnt they take any kind of resposibility to make ammends.. talking takling n talking… thts what i am doing also.. :(

    crying will not solve anything my fellow countrymen/women.. i am sad.. i am ur country.. help me!! help me by one not finger pointing but actually doing something

  • jehanzeb said:

    Pakistan ka sitara aajkul gardish mein hai.. we need to join hands with someone to make the right decision the right move.. musharraf is not to blame alone.. its all of us..

    i think many better things happened during oct 1999 to oct 2002 except the afghan war.. i think i want tht time to come back.. no politics no hoopla no elections.. just the positive work allround..

    can u tell me what is causing this security problem?? i think its tht mindset!! people involved in this situation actually dont know anything else to do?? the x-mujaheedins and now taliban r people who dont know how to earn bread for themselves..
    how do we tackle tht? kindly give some bright ideas..

    one i think is to tell them to stop everything they r doing.. and really develop thr infrastructure for industries.. thr r a few ordinance factories thr since cold war era.. i think we should make them legal .. or eomthing somehintg..

  • moinuddin said:

    i will aoppreciate if any body kills musharaf son in united state in BOSTON,
    HE has to be punished his eyes should feel the tears of sad ness.i hope if i could do this in my life.

  • nazeem said:

    easy man. wts the fault of musharaf’s son?. even musharaf is doing rite thing. this nations needs leaders like musharaf

  • Gulshan said:

    @Tariq
    Sir, With due respect to your holiness, do you know what you are saying?
    Me, the unholy, is totally lost.

  • faisal malik said:

    I feel disgusted, depressed, frustrated and angry after watching this video. I dont find words to condemn these barbaric, inhuman, cruel and uncivilized gory scenes. What kinda nation have we become? Are we really a free, sovereign and independant country?

  • fatima said:

    We the people still have da strength to fite for our loved ones,for our children ,for our country n we r n we will till the very end of these jerks!! Tht day is nt far when all dose who hve done dis will burn in hell..every curse will hit em and they’ll have to pay for everything. And for all dose who still support Musharaff and his regime after looking at all dis shud know that Allah’s wtchin all of us n no1s safe frm him..just picture for a sec.. wt happened to them cud hve happened to u n may even still…

  • ahmad said:

    everybody is making pretty good speeches. but unfortunately no one knows the root cause of the problems.Can a nation rest in peace who denies some one appointed by Allah himself. We r still waiting for Hazrat jesus (as)to come and revive us(muslims). plz for Allah’s sake get up from from ur futile dreams and accept the Imam of the age, then u will see how Allah solves all the problems.

  • Traffic said:

    @ Tipu

    nice lecture bro, but if you read my comments carefully, u didnt need to wrote all that you did. here ill quote my comments again:

    “i know very well that this period was NOT on the guidance of the prophet (saw) and that it was MULUKIYAT, but it was still under shariah law nevertheless, although NOT COMPLETELY, because of the fact that it was HEREDITARY.” and then i also told you later on that it was violently oppressive rule.

    “after prophethood, we have the khulafa-e-rashda, and after that we had the OPPRESSIVE rule of the DYNASTIES which you mentioned.”

    now u wrote in response to this:

    “You say, my friend, thay the 1300 years of khilafat was still GOOD beacuse Sharia was FULLY applied while SArabia is applying is it selectively.” and then u give a long lecture.

    now i dont know if you didnt read my posts carefully or you have a basic problem with understanding stuff. please tell me where i said these dynasties were “GOOD” or they implemented shariah “FULLY”? i condemned them as “OPPRESSIVE” and “MULUKIYAT”

    and then you screw up again with regards to my comments about gulshan. you wrote:

    “Again, in response to Gulshan you have started calling him/her (since i do not know) ENEMY OF ISLAM.”

    can you please quote me where i called him an “enemy of Islam”??? seriously, when you read stuff does it register as something else in your mind? i think all the teaching has gotten to your head. now stop putting words into my mouth.

    p.s. just curious do you share Gulshan’s feelings about the Prophet pbuh??? and one more thing, if u dont mind, are you shia? just curious, you dont have to answer if you dont want to, so dont start crying about complaining to the admin again lol.

  • Traffic said:

    @ Tariq

    are you a student of maulana fazl-ur-rehman? lol you need to wash out all that stuff from your brain man, its not good for you. how about trying to actually use that mind which Allah gave to you.

  • ahmad said:

    all of u guys need to read about ahmadiyyat(True islam).

  • Gulshan said:

    @Traffic:
    In response to your sweet civilized language (abusive) for me, I responded. But Admin has censored my response. I will remove some lines and try to post again.

  • Gulshan said:

    Any Fatwa against me?

  • Gulshan said:

    #Traffic:
    Your utterly Mullafied brain failed to read my statement,
    “I oppose US foreign Policy�.
    I still maintain that average US citizen is Open Minded, Decent, Giving, Forgiving and Accomodating to others needs and beliefs. Ask some of your Friends and relatives who are in USA. They are safer here than in their homeland.
    The US foreign policy is highly influenced by the Lobbies looking for the interests of The Greedy Rat Bastards in the Board Room Of Coprporate America and NeoCons(Religious Right). It was always there but never so bad as in Bush-Chaney Aministration.
    Having clarified that, you have not replied to any of my questions.
    Your statement, “you have heaped so many accusations that each one of them requires a long discussion (the Prophet’s wife e.g.), which frankly i dont have the time to go into.�
    You have all the time in world to fill this board with all the historical “Half truth-Half lies�, but when it comes to the question of “Incest (Sex with clse family member) and Statutory Rape (Adult Having Sex with Minor)�, you do not have time to discuss it. The fact is that it it is indefensible, at least in the civilized world.
    The reason USA, influenced by its corporate lobbies and Neocons, is able to poke its dirty nose in our country’s affairs is because of our leaders, military dictators in perticular,who can’t resist the temptation of receiving billions of dollars and high tech (Kaffir?) armament.
    Hypotheticelly, take away American dollars (50-60 Billion since independence) and take away American supplied Arms (Sable Jets and Patton Tanks of the 1965 war), then see where we will be? (In one respect we will be better of because then our military will not be taking PANGA with India all the time and will not think of Afganistan as OUR backyard)
    Our selfish, opportunist and egotistical leaders and dictators have transformed a once aspiring, proud and sovereign nation, dream of Iqbal and Jinnah, into a Prostitute State. Our OVER emphasis on religion at the state level and lack of morals (Kargil) and ethics (Bangladesh) for the rights of our citizen and neighbour has brought us where we are.
    So, stop blaming others for all our problrms. We have compromised our integrity, dignity and moral/ethical values for money.
    A repectable house in a respectable neighbourhood does not get its door knocked at by people with money wanting to see a Mujra.
    But when a house get the reputation of compromising its “Ghairat� for something in return, people will knock at the door to pay and get entertained.
    Any time in the future, the house can refuse the money/material and refuse to privide The Services. The client, not expecting this refusal may get upset and cause problem for sometime, but they will eventuall stop visiting. It will take tme, but the reputation will be restored, though never fully.
    But you can’t take the money and refuse to perform. So, we are not “Fighting Americas War� for nothing. Not only that. People make products, grow crops or raise cattles to sell and earn money. We, on the other hand, take sons and daughters of the nation, radicalize their virgin brains with Madarssa Education and the sell them to USA for money (Mush’s Words) and get to earn their “Shaabaash� for being “The Most Important Non NATO Ally In War Against Terrirism�. And before USA started buying them, we sold the same comodity i.e. Madarssa Educated Graduates, to the Taliban in return for doing our job in Kashmir.
    “Raise(rich Man) Ke Paise Se Hee Is Kothe Kee Aan Baan Shaan Thee. Usi Kee Shai (protection?) Se Is Kothe Wallon Ne Muhalle Ke Doosre Gharon Mein Torh Phorh Kee (India ,Afganistan) Aur Unko Neecha Dikhane Kee Koshishen Kee, Aapne He Bhai Bhahino Per Zulam Kiye (BanglaDesh).
    So Mere Bhai, Paisa Liya Hai To Mujra To Karna Hee Parhega. Itna eeman/asool To Kothe Wali Ka Bhee Hota Hai.�
    Gulshan

  • Gulshan said:

    @Ahmed:

    Your Holy Highness, you said,”all of u guys need to read about ahmadiyyat(True islam)”.

    So, are you implying that there is some False Islam too?

  • Aamir said:

    A true and horrible picture of terrorism committed by Government of Pakistan.

  • It_is_me said:

    @Gulshan
    By the way I agree with your comments on ordinary American citizens, I am living here for last 9 years. The ordinary people, or I should say majority of the people are nice. But I think this is how it is every where, but this majority at the same time is silent and is not active (at least in Pakistan), that is why they are suffering through the kind of rulers ruling now a days. we are terribly lacking on PR front too. there is simply no Muslim voice in the world, the strongest voices for us are also some neutral kind of non-muslims.

  • ahmad said:

    ur excellency Mr.gulshan
    Yeah, there is, the islam which is being portrayed by Mullahs in Pakistan and which they r using to earn their roti (livelihood),that’s not islam; it’s just a product of their minds.

  • Gulshan said:

    Ahmed Sir,
    Thank you very much for your response. I am very happy that at least one person agrees with me. I have been saying, in previous blogs too, that these Mullas all over , in general, but in Pakistan in perticular, are the root cause of the problem. I have coined the term “Mullafied” , meaning brain washed and poisoned by the Mullas speeches.
    Thank Allah that I am not there or by this time they would have issued Fatwa against me or have me vanished.
    I admire your courage to speak the truth. Keep saying it, more will agree with us and eventually, after a critical mass, the momentum will bring these “Allah Ke Tizaertee” to justice.

    A humble request if I may, please don’t put Mr. in front of my name.

  • antinifaaq said:

    @ Ahmad

    Mr. Ahmad is criticizing the mullah’s Islam (which I do too) but calling us towards a bigger mullafied kufr. We are trying to get rid of the illusion created by the Mullah, that if we will get one khalifah and if people will start getting lashed, everything will be ok. But Mr. Ahmad is asking us to believe not only in a false prophet but also on his totalitarian khalifah. You people are also not any less retarded than tagleeghis and fazlus. The other day, some ahmadis in Germany (and Germany has plenty of them) demonstrated in favour of musharraf. Is there any difference between you and the mardood fazlu?

  • Haroon Malik said:

    mrey ghaazio is watan kay jyaalo
    mein sach bolta hoon mujhe bhi utha lo

    mri betion maaon behnon ko maara
    mrey bhaion merey beton ko maara
    chalay aao ab tum mujhe aazma lo
    mein sach bolta hoon mujhe bhi utha lo

    muhazon pe dushman ne tum ko pichara
    zaeefon ko tum ne watan mein litara
    isi baat pe jaam apna uchalao
    mein sach bolta hoon mujhe bhi utha lo

    yazeedi girohon ke sardaar ho tum
    mazalam mein makar ayyar ho tum
    ruko mut berho apna mansab sambhaalo
    mein sach bolta hoon mujhe bhi utha lo

    labbon pe laga do khmoshi ka taala
    yahaan phelney hi na paaey ujaala
    daba lo daba lo daba lo daba lo
    mein sach bolta hoon mujhe bhi utha lo

  • Kamran said:

    Guys please Help that women!!!! Find the contact information and help her in every possible way!!! she might need money and emotional and street support. do whatever you can.
    May Allah Bless Al of us and Pakistan.
    Musharf will be in hell he knows it even i think……look at this lilttle baby crying…imagine if she is ur younger siister and ur like a missing person!!!!!!!!!!!!???/

  • TheRAPisT said:

    I wonder MUSH has got taste of blood on his tongue…. now what ever extent he drops is minimum he could do….

    MUSH SAYS… Foriegn reserves are increasing….

    its like selling your house and telling ur people that we have ** billion in bank….

    Musharraf sold many of nationalised orgainsations/institutes to increase his so called foriegn reserve…

    can someone ask him about the stats of debts Pakistan is under…..

    can someone ask him why a Pakistani airbased is under use of US forces.

    can someone ask him how many people he has sold to US to fulfil his desires.

    can someone ask him where all donations of 8th october disaster were used.

    can someone ask him how come MPAs’ and MNAs’ got bullet proof mercedes on there income.

    can someone ask MUSHU how many of promises he has fulfilled which he made in front of entire nation.

    lot of question marks though….

    this very video made me cry blood out of my heart.

    I dare say that Musharraf was good politician during 1st year of his era but then he got to bad winds of Pakistani politics

  • Hassan said:

    I M REALLY DISAPPOINTED TO SEE ALL THIS GOING ON OUR OWN COUNTRY JUST BECAUSE THE GOVT WANT TO PLEASE BUSH..HE IS ONE OF THE BIGESST TERERIST IN THE WORLD MAKING VOILENCE ALL OVER THE WORLD AND OUR GOVT IS THE POPET OF BUSH AND MUSHARRAF IS ONE OF THE 2ND BIGGEST TERRERIST OF WORLD KILLING OWN PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY.ONE OF THE BIGGEST EDIOT.I PRAY FOR HIM TO DIE BITTER THAN A DOG AND THE WHOLE NATION OF PAKISTAN TENSSION FREE OF THIS THEY DONT WANT TO DO ANYTHING AGAINST GOVT BECAUSE OUR NATION IS DEAD.JUST THINK IF SOMETHING HAPPEND TO ONE OF YOUR FAMILY MEMBER SO WHAT WOULD HAPEND TO YOU.SO GO OUT AND PROTEST AGAINST THEM.I M IN UK SO WE WILL DEFENETLY DO PROTEST HERE AND WE ARE DOING.SO WAKE UP AND DO SOMETHING NOT FOR COUNTRY BUT FOR PEOPLE IN COUNTRY BECAUSE WE ALL ARE MUSLIMS AND WE WIL BE ASKED IN THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT.

  • Ikbal Akund said:

    This site intrigues me. The About section does not list any organization or group. They provide no contact numbers. The site itself is registred in scotsdale arizona through a proxy. There is no attempt to disclose financials yet the site probably costs quiet a bit of money. So the question is what really is the intention here?????

  • ahmad said:

    @antinifaaq,
    u know that’s the biggest problem of our people.We call the so called maulanas bad and still follow them. what u r saying about ahmadis, is just what u have been told by those maulanas. this is bcz we don’t want to put our head into religious matters and left it for maulanas.
    the other thing which u r talking about is about demonstration in germany by ahmadis. u know since last so many years ahmadis have been persecuted and tortured in dif. parts of the world by these maulanas and their followers and ahmadis have done even a single deonstration for themselves and u r talking about musharraf.u r 101% misinformed.

  • Tipu said:

    @ dear traffic

    your approach is called ‘death by thousand qualifications’. First you try to categorically show the superiority of 1300 years of khilafat over the present SArabia regime. Then when you are shown that this cannot be the case you start to add qualifications – yes those 1300 years were hereditary, yes they were oppressive, yes Sharia was not fully applied, yes it was not even considered khilafat but was called mulkiyat.
    So my friend, in what way was that period superior to SArabia? You have qualified your first statement so much taht you have killed it.

    p.s. regardless of whether I am a Sunni or a Shia, your question betrays your own bigotry. You claim to follow the Prophet but are simply unable to think outside the Shia-Sunni box. Instead of confronting the ideas you are quick to brand anyone who disagrees with you as this or that. I feel sorry for you. May you be guided.

  • faraz said:

    @traffic
    zindabad

  • faraz said:

    tipu people like you need dandays in ur ass vo bhi Talabans danday baat hi naheen sunnay ka
    do yahan do wahan
    tipu nay kaha bolnay to doo
    phir do yahan phir do wahan
    story goes on ;)

  • Not Needed said:

    @to whom it may concern

    Advice: dont get that serious about this or any Govt, relax people….we all know that our comments wont make any difference or any kind of impact to fix things around us,

  • antinifaaq said:

    @Ahmad,

    I know your religion more than you can imagine and you must be noticed, that I am not a “follower” type of person. I have first hand knowledge about you and I am not a fan of Maulana Chanioti or any maulavis of his type.

    By the way, follower mentality is even more evident in Ahmadis. I haven’t seen a single really liberated Ahmadi because they always follow their khalifa and their endless murabbis. I can understand, that you feel comfortable in your ahmadiat because our maulavis have distorted the real face of islam. However, this is high time you rethought your belief. I even personally know many people who have recently left Ahmadiat.

  • junaid said:

    this is end of brutality. Curse on pakistans army.

  • Morad said:

    Conversation between TIPU, GULSHAN against TRAFFIC et al…

    Guys – I find it amazing that we are talking religion and it’s values whilst we are using abusive language!

    I am in particular sad to see the so call advocates of Islamic Governance to behave so crudely…

    May Allah Bless you and guide you to a more tolerant thought and behaviour…..

  • Kami said:

    @ Sal

    I have been reading your comments on missing people (you supported that), dictatorship (you supported that) and now you are saying that what is happening to them is right.

    I don’t often pray, but today I will pray and especially ask God to give you the same what you want for others. We should all pray that you or your loved ones go missing and no one knows what happened. No court, no lawyers, no evidence in any court of law and you get what other missing people are getting. Aameen.

  • Tipu said:

    @Morad

    I would appreciate if you could point out where did I use abusive language. I never wish to do so and if mistakenly I have done so would like to know about it so that I correct myself.
    Tipu

  • Danish said:

    Muneer A malik on torture he faced in JAIL

    http://jang.com.pk/thenews/dec2007-weekly/nos-09-12-2007/enc.htm#1

  • ahmad said:

    @admin,
    great, anyhow thanks a lot for ur patience but at the same time i would like to say, we should have at least a little amount of courage to listen to others point of views.
    May Allah Almighty be always with us.

  • loelybird from canda said:

    i watch the clip in which the girl was crying, i m n office with my other collegues. i could stop myself crying.i leave pakistan 5 monhs ago and was in dilemma wether i did good or wrong. now i m convincd that i did good. let this country be ceased to exist, at least it will make a sense wen we will be treated like this by conqurers.
    MAY ALLAH FREE MY FELLOW COUNTRYMAN.

  • Avatar Image
    Ya.Allah.Khair said:

    Dear Fellow CountryMen

    Indeed a moment to Cry,,Cry and release this burden from our hearts. This foreign cum local Curse which has gone worst will not dismantle our courages. it has brought us close, we cry together and we struggle together. Please,please,please Ohh.Allah bless us all, the innocent brothers and sisters and their families.

    Please raise your voice in a sensible and effective manner on every forum you find. Don’t sit tight in your lounges. We will protect our country. We will live and die together.

    This is final war against the Devils of world and locally produced evils.

    YA ALLAH YE TERE SADA BANDE KIDHAR JAYEEN..
    KAEIN JENE PAR PABANDI HA..TO KAHEIN MARNE PE PABANDI..

    YA.ALLAH.KHAIR
    LOVE TO ALL

  • Avatar Image
    crude101 said:

    Its unimaginable … have they lost their minds ? have they got no children of their own ? how can they just pick some1 up and take him away. these are the works of such who have no souls , have no sense of humanity and what not. all I would say is that Almighty God is watching all of this and those responsible will be punished in their lives and in the hereafter.

    It is said that a man is in worst condition of his mind when he’s being hit and beaten, and yet they beat and torture those innocent people without any reason and put them in a so called worst state of minds.

    InshaAllah everything will be judged, as Almight Allah is never wrong in his judgement. He will make him pay for this, whoever is responsible.

    Lets just pray that things get better. Ameen.

  • Avatar Image
    Nazir4u said:

    such a shaaameeeeee

    our leaderz shud be ashamed

    For money u selling ur own ppl

    we will fight these corrupt politicians Inshallah

    the only country where there is No Respect for their own ppl

    thats why ppl go n settle in UK where their govornment atleast ask abt their citizen
    shameeeeeeeeeee on Musharraf

    I wish if u cud feel hw much it hurts

    May Allah give all of them the punishment who tortured n handed innocent ppl to US Ameen

    Ya Allah i cant do nothing for these ppl

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