I SINCERELY WISH THAT EVERY DICTATORS CHILDREN INCLUDING AYUB KHAN, ZIA AND MUSHARAF’S CHILDREN SUFFER ATLEAST AS MUCH AS THE NATION IS SUFFERING TODAY BECAUSE OF THEIR ACTS
I WISH TO CONDEMN THE BAIGARTH PEOPLE OF THESE CONSTITUENCIES WHO ELECT THESE LOW LIFE’S BY CHOICE
this is the most depressing time of my life ……….when i saw the little girl crying for her brother….. it made me cry too ……..she was just like my sister………..is that what we do to our people…..we as a nation should die in shame ………..wake up Pakistanis……..
Documentary starts with Allah-o-Akbar. But I am not impressed.
We all know that God is great but Muslims are very mean and low grade. If we don’t stand up now, I would be happy if someone else destroys us like Iraq.
What can one say? Pray for our country. Pray for Punjab. Pray for Baluchistan. Pray for NWFP. Pray for Northen Area. Pray for Sindh. Pray for Kashimir.
i completly agree with all of you guys and especially with faisal you spoke the my heart. i just pray to GOD ALMIGHTY to give this zalil musharaf the most miserable death. HOW COULD THEY DO THIS TO OUR OWN PEOPLE……and may ALLAH GIVE THE COURAGE AND TOLARENCE TO THE FAMILIES OF THOSE PERSONS. WE CAN JUST PRAY FOR THEM….SALAM.
I agree with shahid these people are from intelligence agencies who are doing all this.Pakistan army and intelligence agencies are been paid from USA to do all this shit…All i can say is that i feel very ashamed after watching this clip that we havnt done anything significant to help these people…:(
This video is totally based on false. An emotional game play. Very nice. Woow I can’t believe how people are playing in hand of other. If this good Pakistan agencies are i wonder how the heck people find out where these people are kept. When they were picked up. Who can give me information that these people who are missing are not gone away on their own to to do terrorism.
Its just a game that start with one statement. ” Pakistan’s Agency should be dismantle.”
Let suppose even if they are picked up before they do a crime that is the only thing one can do. Since there would be no need to arrest a head of a suicide bomber.
@ali khan
nice speech but i strongly disagree with ya
this is based on true stories, so many people are missing since this government made a crackdown on so called terrorism…catching people and handing over them to U.S.
anyways, THIS POLICE has to be given some kind of training of how the F*** to treat people…..THIS POLICE IS SO DAMN RUTHLESS!
AND then this guy WASI zafar with his english shi*.
OMG no wonder why Pakistan as a country suffering so much embrassment. i am still shocked and almost crying;
It is so sad to see Muslims doing this … dont they fear Allah, dont they read Quran,
they are commiting sin which can not be forgiven.
I is sad to see Muslims doing the very thing that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) strongly forbidden us to do.
you really need to open your eyes and stop lying to yourself. Situations like the ones showed in the video are EXACTLY what create hatred in the hearts of people who later go ahead and do suicide bombings. If there were no disapperances and Pakistan was a fair land where everyone is really free, there would be no suicide bombings. There is ABSOLUTELY no proof that the people arrested had any connection whatsoever with terrorism. USA is simply paying Pakistan to deliver them supposed terrorists. Any person is chosen without any reason. When your own father, son or brother disappears, we’ll see whether you keep on saying the same thing.
Ali, suppose government officials abducts you or your father or any of your relatives because they believe that they are terrorist. How would you feel about it?
Suppose out of 100 people who are missing, 20 people are innocent.
Do you think it is right ?
Think that those 20 people are kept in Jail, beaten up, sexually harassed, mentally tortured and no one is answerable and no one can help them. Try to put yourself in this situation. Have ever been to a jail, or even spent a single night behind bars, and used dirty washrooms, etc. Could you imagine if you are put in these circumstances how it may affect your entire life (mentally)? Along with the lives of your parents, your wife, children , etc.
Therefore we need constitution. We need human rights, right to contest in court if alleged of a crime.
I think I made my point.
just to stay in power, these genarals play such a ruthless game with the help of sme dispicable politicians. Army will pay dearly, it already is. the ISI is getting. Why would some people lift arms and ram into someone with explosives tied around. The army deserves the pounding. plz Watch the video and read the message of Mr. jinnah at the end.
I do not lose my nerves very easily but I tell you all … watching this video made me cry.
I CANNOT believe this A**H**E MUSH has CROSSED SO MANY LINES to PLEASE BUSH.
Innocent people who have nothing to do with terrorism MUST NOT BE TREATED like this.
This is very sad.
First of all we can only pray for poor peoples.The man(ch Iftiqar) who can give them justice he is out of his seat.
In the last mr khan,(i don`t wana use ALI name to call u because i have too much respect for that name)i don`t know how can u defend those people who did this crime,are u a normal person?I know this forum is for every one but please don`t come here with your baseless thoughts.
We already upset after watching this kind of terrorism by our police.And u come with your stupid ideas how can u say that this is false,o mr put yourself or your family member on their place & ask what happen.
This should be an opener for those who are still seduced by Musharaff’s charming promises. I cannot see intelligence agencies pursuing kidnapping without the blessing of their highers.
@Ali Khan, dont you see what is going on? dont you reason why this is happening? Doesn’t it make you wonder? Amnesty International is a human right watch, and there are other credible citations in this documentary.
Many of us are protesting against kidnappings, but we have not suggested dismantle the agencies. How did you link both together?
@ z
plz remember, the only ones supporting the army are the children of the top brass of the army and those who are getting monetary benefits from the army.everyone knows how corrupt is the army.
Today I feel so ashamed of myself to call myself a Muslim and a Pakistani. Is this the way we treat our respectful sisters by bringing them on the streets and beating them???
We all belong to a Muslim society and we still just watch our sisters being oppressed like this??? Don’t you all think we should have been there with our sisters and protest with them when they needed us????
If we don’t guard the honour and dignity of our sisters then who will???? I wish if Generals like Salah ud din Ayubi or Muhammad Bin Qasim were alive they would have either crushed the oppressor or would have died fighting. I wish I can do something for the families of missing persons other than just writing here…..
Rather than crying,made those reponsible cry for the crimes they are committing just to stay in power.
I don’t know how many times have I already proposed but I consider this my responsibilty to APPEAL TO ALL AGAIN
1. Boycot military socially and MORE IMPORTANTLY ECONOMICALLY.
Why do you think the military take-over in the first place?
Ans: TO ENSURE their non-PROFESSION related busineses and perks are intact.
WHere in the world has a military running banks, factories, residential schemes,toll plazas, construction conglomerates, corporate farms and a budget without discussion?
ALL THESE ARE ILLEGAL and MUST be BOYCOTED. THIS is what everyone of us can do. This is what we MUST DO. STRIKE WHERE IT MATTERS. HIT the POCKETS OF GENERALS HARD.
Its not just one istitution, visit the remote areas of all the provinces, all the metro cities, you will find private torture cells & jails.
Infact theres a Kabza Group Mafia who get togethere(deals) whenever one of them is in the danger.
I have the same feeling for all these Kabza Groups who diverts public attention from an independent judiciary.
This was one of the reasons that Mush tried to sack “my man CJP” because he had asked the forbidden question for the common masses. These intelligence agencies are used only to terrorize their own citizens. How many times do we hear that the police was able to apprehend the culprit or was able to deny a robbery? very rarely. And how often we hear that police tortured the civil society in one form or the other? almost every day. How often have we heard that the intelligent agencies were able to locate a suiside bommer? never but they know precisely how many entered a city. These agencies need to be reigned as they have been operating way out of their domains for too long.
Great thing is that due to Musharraf’s crimes and stupidity Pakistan is heading towards, no it is under going, a real revolution.
Beware Benazir and Nawaz Sharif, the age of 10% and Daewoo are over.
this documentry is lesson & also turning point to think about our so called leaders and brutal army. Please i request infront of u try to choose honest people. Try to discourage our basterd police every where because they are not halali.
The guy getting arrested in the video is just 16 years old, just imagine anyone of us if u dont see any one of your parent for 2 whole years and you dont even know whether he is alive or dead???? (I hope Mr. Masood is fine INSHALA)
Tommorow, Kiyani will take over Musharaf He was the Head of ISI when all these persons got missing so one b**tard goes another comes………
I know you will laugh but on the day of judgement accused will be punished. Victims’ hands will be on these rascles necks. There will be a list of those who committed these crimes, who supported these crimes and who tried to justify these crimes.
the onus is upon the pakistanis abroad to express solidarity with our brothers in pakistan. people in well placed positions should organize talks, political debates to mount pressure. while monster musharraf is immune to any pressure we can still do our bit. we should also make dua…ay Allah hamein zalim kay zulm say bacha.ameen
Nice emotional black mail… this is y media was banned in pak.
who ever made this video i would like to ask u if one of these missing persons today pulled up in a car next to you and blows himself up killing ur loved ones, who will be responsible?
the truth is there are stupid people out there who are brain washed by some evil people into doing stuff like this.
now look at the stupid comment by Zenith. acc to him every one should take up arms start fighting with govt than once the govt is gone start fighting each other kill every single opponent. and that will be the end of the strongest muslim state ever, who will win than? hasnt iraq taught you any thing…
so my advise is i know things are not perfect but i consider Mushrraf still better than any other Money hungry, lying SOb politician. give him a chance he is already taking of his uniform why do u think he would ever want to do that if he wanted to be in power always.. he can continue his emergency and lock up or hang all the politicians since they are all in pak now.
what can i say except this kay ” JAISEY LOG HOTEY HAIN WAISEY HE HUKMARAN HOTEY HAIN”. WE ARE ALL CRIMINAL SOMETIMES I THINK WE ARE NOT DOING WHAT WE SUPPOSED TO DO, THAT IS TO FOLLOW THE LIFE OF OUR NABI MUHAMMAD SAL LALLAH OH ALEYHE WASALAM.
WE ALL SHOULD TRY TO CHANGE OURSELVES THAN CHANGE WILL COME INSHALLAH. SALEEM PA USA
The video speaks for itself and it merely touches the surface.
I hope this explains that those people who have been part of the Musharraf gang are hired guns of the west and they have subjected the people of Pakistan but esp: the people of the Frontier to un mentionable abuses.
As yet there are people in Pakistan who actually have nice things to say about Musharraf.
What we must do is to make sure everyone sees this video- so send the link to everyone you know everywhere.
I dont know what is your nationality, what is your religion but what you have said can be said only by one who hasnt got human feelings, you are sounding satanic, you are sounding criminal, you are sounding traitor and above all you are sounding wasi zafar.
I have to agree this is an important problem we have to take into account. It is as serious as any other case. Every individual disappearing is a serious problem in our country.
My question, then, is where is the proof that the state has funded these kidnappings. An individual in say Amnesty International is no authority on facts and figures as such.
Also note how there are many cuttings during interviews, which for all we know, are important details left out.
I agree that this is really a serious problem. I also agree that this is the one of the most inhumane thing I’ve ever seen.
I hope someone will answer what I said, without getting all emotional and suddenly passionate, putting forth facts.
OK Sal. For a moment, let us agree with your rationale that any one of these “people” can pull up next to your car and kill your loved ones.
Since you are sure of this, then wouldn’t the next logical step be for the govt to file terrorism charges against these “criminals”,produce the evidence in court and put them away for life ? Sounds like very simple way to me to take care of a serious problem. Don’t you agree ?
and good luck with NS or BB winning the election or which ever blood sucking “haramkhor” you support. how easy it is for them to motivate morons like you into giving them votes…
i agree wiht u but i am afraid in pak that would not have been possible.
judiciary was corrupt and was due to political intrests confronting the govt. all those Chief Justice supporters i ask u where was this hero of urs CJ before all this confrontation with Musharraf i think he has been the CJ for a while y didnt he take all these Suo Moto’s earlier? y now..
so now u tell me? you think a genuine brain “washed person” would have been sentenced or kept away from innocent ppl on the road.. i doubt that!
while some cases of missing people may be valid and indeed, in some cases the agencies must have crossed the line, one must really ask the question, why all this propaganda against Pakistan as a state now ? How is it that such a well made documentary is produced now ? where were all these bleeding hearts since 911 ? The answer is clear. The utility of musharrafs regime is now at its lowest. So now we are seeing a well coordinated attack on the regime by the media, ngo, and so called impartial judiciary and their friends in political circles. Its a good strategy and a lot of educated and patriotic pakistanis are falling into the trap but unless there is widespread protests, the regime will survive.
Germany had only one hitler whereas we have a series of Hitlers.
Our ISI is worse than GESTAPO.
Gestapo killed non germans and ISI kills all.
Hitler’s police also kidnapped thousands of civilians on suspicion of being communist and tortured to death. Here Pakistani secret agencies have captured thousands of our brothers (Many of whom are innocents). Tortured and killed and people like tasnim aslam have the audacity to speak barefaced lies.
These people are real kaffirs. All people must get rid of these liers through democratic means.
Peaceful protests must be used to demonstrate. Civil society should come out on streets and protest. In the place of small group of protesters if 100000 people would have gathered then police could not have kidnapped the 16 year old child.
Shame on ISI.
Shame on Pakistani Army. (Which is fit to wear bangles).
Shame on pakistani awaam for not protesting.
ISI cannot keep people without court’s permission.
If someone is terrorist then coursts must punish him else he should be set free.
Just because some officier in ISI is angry on some vegetable seller, the poor fellow cannot be kidnapped and put in prison for torture without court case.
How can one call it a fabrication when even Mush has admitted he has been selling Pakistanis for $5000 a pop? The last people I personally heard justifying it was a PMLQ MPA whom I threw out of my house. I have personally met one of these victims but he has been unable to talk about the experience so far. He is a lawyer who was picked up on the “evidence” that one terror-suspect had called his number. The intelligence people even admitted he had not talked to that suspect but were interested to know how the guy got a hold of the lawyers number. This guy said Hey, I am a lawyer and a lot of criminals have my number. They took him anyways and he just disappeared for some 2 years. Then one day out of the blue he showed up at home saying they drugged him and put him in a rickshaw.
Remember, even after Mush is gone, the system stays. War on Terror will go on…
Let’s just take the example of Police: Do you think anyone is going to fire all those “cops” recruited by Chaudhries? The whole police force needs to be disbanded. And remember, one of Mush’s excuse for the PCO and firing of judges WAS that these very cops in ISI agents were loosing morale as they were being asked come before the court.
About police, let me give you a few examples that I know are facts. I do know these policemen pay as much as Rs.500,000 as recruitment fee. How do you think they intend to make it up? There salary can’t be even close to Rs.10,000 (does anyone know what it is?) Second, in my hometown tehsil, each police station has to pay the DSP Rs.100,000 a month. There are 35 police stations so that makes his take Rs.3.5 million a month plus what bakhshish he gets directly. The SP I know personally was thrown out from police force for corruption in a very public case by the Chief Minister who claimed he had him on tape with an underworld figure. But guess what? One month later that underworld figure is arrested and surprise(!) killed in jail. A few weeks after that the same CM reinstates him and now he has been promoted. This person has recently bought a Mercedes SL500, a new house in Defence, spending crores on interrior decorations alone. He also has bought more than 10 plots here and I don’t know how many more that I don’t know of. He is also buying up agricultural land like crazy and I don’t have a clue how much he has but has put the word out that anyone selling land in the area to please come to him for he will buy it.
And this is just one of the more honest police officers Think what a General can do.
In Indian state of uttar prades the police recruitment was defective and many criminals were selected. They had given bribes.
The next govt has kicked out all of these. More than 17000 policemen were dismissed in 3 months.
If India can do it then why can we not?
I say
Dismantle ISI.
Dismantle Police.
Make law than no Army men can ever think of coup.
Make army chief a subordinate to airforce or navy chief who in turn shoud report to some committee of bureaucrats.
Make police under the control of judiciary.
Take away all business from army.
Make new police and new secret service with one aim: to get intelligence on enemy countries.
Make it mandatory that to arrest some one a warant signed by a majistrate is needed and the arrested person should be produced before the court in 24 hrs.
I think all those who support police/agency brutality should be ashamed of themselves.
Yesterday I met some guys who support MQM. They were saying that when MQM guys were being mistreated, no body protested.
I drew their attention to police brutality and suggested that we make a pressure group and bring these police guys to justice. I mentioned recent examples where we have video and pictorial proofs.
These MQM supporters started telling me that the police is good and their experience says that police only mistreats bad people. They ‘opened’ my eyes by telling me the ‘facts’ that police did not mistreat Imran’s sisters and that its the other way round. They also told me that it was the lawyers who were bad, not the police. I told these MQM supporters that I am surprised that police in pakistan was so good and no one told me.
If we have intellectual dishonesty, we cannot do anything. I want to ask MQM supporters why they keep telling us about police brutality and now they are not only quiet but supporting that as well.
For MQM supporters, few verses from a German poet who was arrested in the end:
When Hitler went after Socialists, I kept quiet; because I was not a Socialist.
When Hitler went after Trade Unions, I kept quiet; because I did not belong to a trade union.
When Hitler went after Jews, I kept quiet, because I was not a Jew.
When Hitler came after me, I looked around, But there was no one left to protest for me.
I think all those who support police/agency brutality should be ashamed of themselves.
Yesterday I met some guys who support MQM. They were saying that when MQM guys were being mistreated, no body protested.
I drew their attention to police brutality and suggested that we make a pressure group and bring these police guys to justice. I mentioned recent examples where we have video and pictorial proofs.
These MQM supporters started telling me that the police is good and their experience says that police only mistreats bad people. They ‘opened’ my eyes by telling me the ‘facts’ that police did not mistreat Imran’s sisters and that its the other way round. They also told me that it was the lawyers who were bad, not the police. I told these MQM supporters that I am surprised that police in pakistan was so good and no one told me.
If we have intellectual dishonesty, we cannot do anything. I want to ask MQM supporters why they keep telling us about police brutality and now they are not only quiet but supporting that as well. Just because their party is in power.
Well, I don’t need to Ans all of you. And justify my thought and point of view to any one since like all of you i have the liberty to have thought and express. Let me also PROMISE here that i shall not pray for any of you to go to hell and to die, and also that i shall not Distrust your ideas and thoughts, since Allah Talah Knows the BEST.
But let me also Pray to all of us this; that what we are looking at here only a side of picture plus one sides interest.
The thing is that we are asking some one let us speak but we don’t give him the right to do so, and when he tells us some thing we just say shut up you are lying. And they we do this most oftenest is by closing on our eyes what we don’t want to see.
You all love Ali Ahmed Kurd. Why? Let me guess that when he was standing in front of Supreme Court and said on the 20th that This supreme court is now the free, and is the this CJ is now above every govt pressure and what not. But why are we forgetting the day when after that decision on rejecting the petition against president by Bench in Qazi Hussain ahmed and Imran Khan Case he said in front of the very supreme court and judges that this decision “came from presidency and GHQ these Judges are sold” (it is a quote from his speech). And what did Munir Malik said He will burn hell court down.
There are list of argument that i have but i hope you get my msg.
Let me add this here, world is not as simple as is seams. I wish that we the people of Pakistan understood the importance of trust. And not to distrust some ones intentions just because you don’t believe it.
A Little example I would like you to see the first three videos of the following link. And again let me add Zahid Hamid is very independent analyst. My thoughts are not ONLY BASED ON this it is just clue i wish i could add some more stuff here but i hope we all would know where we stand.
If you be quiet and support brutality now, who will speak for your rights when the same agencies start another operation.
It is very dangerous to support dictators, especially when they are lame duck. Mush will run to Turkey and the unnecessary anger will be directed towards other sections of society.
As you see only 10% or 20% of Pakistani people may be offereing 5 times prayer regularly. So Pakistani people failed to implements the basics of ISLAM in pakistan.
Therefore we have such rulers ruling us.
For sixty years Pak fouj has been scaring people of Pakistan that India is about to get them. But army itself was in the process of looting the country. Now you want to scare us again that Swat/ FATA problem is a US conspiracy?
Good luck this time. FATA and Swat people are at the same stage where Bengalis were 35 years ago. Army was the culprit then and Army is the wrongdoer now. This time we are not emotionally attcached to your land of the priviliged.
General Musharraf took a wrong turn on March 9th, 2007. I simply ignored it. Did not even follow Pakistani politics and news. But afterward, he grossly mis-stepped one after another. I was astonished, how a sensible person and a popular leader could make series of illogical decisions.
Today, I got my answer; definitely, he got the badd’dua (curse) of this woman Amana Masood in this video, her children and many others. People like you may not believe in it but there is a higher Deity. He is has His ways of conducting justice.
On the pragmatic note, I would not be surprised if this boy without shalwar would be driving a suicide car bomb and later on police claiming that they were right in kidnapping his father.
Hunger can be felt only by hungry! How can General Musharaf and his poodels feel and share the sorrow and agony of these people? After seeing this eye opening documentary, I just didn’t cry, but my heart and soul is is helplessly and hopelessly crying. After seeing such hedious and henious incidents, no Pakistani has right to live in Pakistan. My stomach is full of disgust for the relentless brutalities unleashed on the poor and innocent. Being helpless, I just raise my hands and pray to God that all missing individuals meet their beloved families before a blink of an eye.
Just saw Ik’s conference on geo. He tore his nomination papers in front o camera and said that he will nt contest in these electons. As much as i respect, I think he has shown political immaturity. Now he asked BB and NSto do the same. I think pml-Q and ppp will win the game at the end that is if ppp contests these elections, which iam pretty sure they will.
Illegal detentions are never acceptable. But for the time being, just think about it. If someone has been involved in the terrorism, what would you do? take him to the court? try him? how long? we know our courts. Realistically, it takes years to conclude a case. to grant bail is real easy. what if you release a real terrorist bailing him? i am not taking sides, just asking you what is the guaranty that such people will live safe?what is an alternate to avoid suicide attacks by stupid terrorists? what about the death of millions of innocent people in such attacks? I say being religious is not a crime, but even knowing a terrorist and not pointing out to law enforcing agencies is a Bid crime. Is it better to keep 400 people in jails or bailing out a bunch of terrorists who eill kill millions of innocent people? I need your opinion.
I am very sorry bro! your disease is incurable. You can criticize NS, BB etc, I dont mind but you did not even bother to say anything of sympathy for that young boy and that girl.
Leave it who is wrong or right, just tell me what would you have done if your kids were beaten by police like that ?
Today’s Muslim has lost his character. I am sure Musharraf didn’t ask those policemen to take that poor kid’s pant out. It is so shameful. How can a muslim do that to anyone, forget about doing that to another Muslim? It is not a problem of just Musharraf, the army and the intelligence agencies. It is a problem with our nation. We are far away from our deen.
@Umar
I agree with you. How come any of us can do this sort of things if we have even a little WILL to follow the teachings of our religion.
– That is the grace of judiciary if it is inplace. But unfortunately we could have seen only few sparks of that real enlightenment and then that source of hope was pushed behind the bars. Think if we are having free judiciary even this act of brutality can be taken to court and such a system can ensure a very peaceful society in short time.
@Shawn
No it is not better to keep innocent 400 people in jail.
No one is saying let terrorists go. Prosecute them but under the LAW. Or are you saying your laws are no good? If so, then FIX them. Or are you saying you have no good evidence against those “terrorists”. Then are they terrorists just because you think they are? By the same reasoning, most westerners this all Muslims are terrorists. Should we incarcerate them all and torture them till they confess??
@shawn
And by the way, no so-called terrorist or even a terrorist organization has come close to kill millions of people. Sure millions have been killed but by people we reward, honor, sing songs in their praise, and give them Nobel Peace Prize. Take Bush, Clinton, GW, Harry Truman, Sharon, Hitler, Lenin, and the biggest murderer of all times: Henry Kissinger (know of a recent genocide? Be sure Henry had a hand in it)… WHat did Osama do? maybe killed ~2500.
@shawn
Since my last comment is awaiting moderation, let me ask you: Name one terr*orist who has killed “millions”.
“Honorable” people do that. Those guilty of above have names like B*sh, Truman, GW, and the biggest murd*r*r of all times: Henry K*ssinger (know of a recent genocide? Be sure Henry had a hand in it)
These guys don’t get thrown in prison. They get Nobel Peace Prizes…
@ Sal/ Nota
I agree with both of you 100%. but you still didnt answer my question. are you saying its better to kill millions of innocent people?
i agree that most of the times there is no evidence against those who are detained, but do u think our intelligence is inefficient? It is one of the best in the world. believe me. they are inefficient in a way that they fail to collect concrete evidence against them and act mostly on the intelligence force who should not be named in the court to maintain secrecy . our law is faulty, and thus they are kept illegal. But some of them must have been arrested for a reason. We have to protect our nation from serious attacks. we have to prevent our country from being given bad name. I have few suggestions:
1. Keep our borders strict. Allow no illegal immigrations.
2. Only highly experienced law enforcement personnel should be employed at borders.
3. Deport all the illegal immigrants
4. Army should not be allowed to interfere in politics and concentrate on their job.
5. Bring new politicians like IK and of lawyers (who are educated)like Aitzaz Ahsan, Malik, Kurd, journalists,and social activists.
6. I agree to extent that those missing persons should atleast be allowed to see their families.
This is absolutely wrong concept that West thinks all muslims are terrorists. Tell me why lawyers and civilians in US and Europe marched against atrocities being committed agains lawyers and journalists in Pakistan?
There are millions of muslims working in every walk of life in US and other parts of the west. None of them is arrested. Only those were arrested who were pointed by Pakistani agencies.
Was that 16 year boy released???? I feel like my heart will explode. I am ashamed of being living here. May Allah give these people Hidaya and mayy they burn these so called leaders burn in the worst part of hell.
Afghanistan was first to oppose creation of Pakistan.
Iraq was more inclined to India and it favoured India in Indo_pakistan war.
Afghani immigrants to pakistan sold klashinkovs to pakistani people, sold Herion to pakistanis, bringing drug culture and terrorism. Did you ever hear of heroin and use of klashinkov in seventees?
These arms are still being used in ethnic and secterian violence in pakistan against pakistani muslims by the muslims. They have smuggled alcohol, and prostitutes here.
Why it is always duty of pakistani to support other muslim countries in their fight?
where were they when India attacked pakistan?
Instead of crying for and helping them we should help our country. we should help our lawyers and journalists and civil societies to bring freedom to our coutry against a dictator. I read in newspapers that people from pakistan were supporting foriegners and giving them asylum. May I ask why?
@shawn:
1. Keep our borders strict. Allow no illegal immigrations.
If I am to believe US official story, rhen remember NONE of the 9/11 perpetrators were in US illegally. Same goes for 7/7 london (and do watch the “Ludicrous Diversion” documentary – is available on YouTube/GoogleVideo)
2. Only highly experienced law enforcement personnel should be employed at borders.
Still that would have not prevented the events mentioned in (1)
3. Deport all the illegal immigrants
Same meaningless non-solution as above 2 points.
4. Army should not be allowed to interfere in politics and concentrate on their job.
That’s all we ask for.
5. Bring new politicians like IK and of lawyers (who are educated)like Aitzaz Ahsan, Malik, Kurd, journalists,and social activists.
Can’t ask for more
6. I agree to extent that those missing persons should atleast be allowed to see their families.
At the very least!
“There are millions of muslims working in every walk of life in US and other parts of the west. None of them is arrested. ”
This is simply not true. Since 9/11 there hasn’t been a week when some paintball playing guys were not splashed on the evening news as “another terrorist cell busted.” And as long as you toe the “party line” you are OK. As long as they dont play paintball or take pictures of buildings and look at someone funny, they are OK. I could point you to a hundred examples but I am sure you can do the search yourself. Here is some help: http://www.google.com.pk/search?q=terrorist+cell+busted&btnG=Search&hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial
and scroll through.
By the way, who has killed more people? Terrorists or your “statesmen”? You did not answer so I thought I’d ask again.
@nota
i am not saying bush, mush, etc are my “statesmen”. I am just saying our first priority should be to bring stability to pakistan. i am not worried about other countries. Regarding arrests of muslims in western countries, they were arrested on suspicion and later released. i think they have right to arrest anyone who they suspect might have connections. 9/11 was not a joke.it is the biggest in the history. and unfortunately, the blame went to muslims. unfortunately some muslims praised it. thats sad. Islam is the religion of peace and we have to prove it by conduct. likewise we have also right to arrest those who do same to our country. how many people got killed in BB procession? How many suicide attacks/ bomb attacks occured in recent days? Do you think govt has no right to even investigate or do detentions for that purpose?
What if someone does that to your innocent family/friends?
How can anyone be that brutal, how can these ppl sell their fellow country men to US.
What should we do??
Any plan of action??
Should we contact local congressman, and ask them raise voice against this injustice in Pakistan?
Shouldn’t we pray Qunoot e naazila??
Should each and everyone of us do the self-evaluation, and fix ourselves?
What should we do?????
This is just too much, I can’t imagine how much psychotic that little girl must be right now.And how many other brothers and sisters are oppressed by this zulm.
@shawn:
“What if someone does that to your innocent family/friends?”
Exactly. Now apply it to yourself. What if they suspect your brother/father/mother or sister of terrorism? And for taking pictures? And they disappear without you knowing where they are, what charges are against them? And after years of torture they say: You are innocent. Are you really comfortable with that?
I think it is d*sgusting to keep bringing up those 9/11 victims and compare it to more than a million killed in Iraq alone since then who had nothing to do with it. Are you suggesting they were all terrorists? And your killing hasn’t stopped. So please take this b*ll and sh*ve it. We need none of your morality.
u r a perfect example of what they want to make of all of us. you will give up all rights just to get a false sense of security. who knows if the husband of that woman really was involved in terrorism or not. where is he? what crime has he commited? what is the harm in telling the family about his location and charges? atleast give the man a fair trial. but I know you will not agree , not until they pick up someone from your family
You got me wrong actually. I am not saying detention of people that way is right, if you read my previous messages. I am also sorry the way police treated them. its shameful. i am not taking govt side.
Instead of crying and cursing, you could have come up with some better solution to this problem. You are saying ” lets arrest no one unless proved beyond all reasonable doubts” i would have agreed it it was a simple crime. Our intelligentia are no fools.why would they take mine or your family? thats the proof they havent picked up any of your family member since they know they are innocent beyond doubt. everybody has right to express his/her opinion.
know what? nota, thats our problem. they way you are reacting. you can not listen anything against your opinion. instead of giving a solution , you are cursing me. so what is the difference between you, bush and mush?
And please do read “American Empire for Dummies” by William Blum at http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=2517, that is if you can handle the truth.
Excerpt:
“The State Department recently held a conference on how to improve America’s image abroad in order to reduce the level of hatred; image is what they’re working on, not change of policies. But the policies scorecard reads as follows: From 1945 to the end of the century, the United States attempted to overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populist movements fighting against insufferable regimes. In the process, the US bombed about 25 countries, caused the end of life for several million people, and condemned many millions more to a life of agony and despair.
“If I were the president, I could stop terrorist attacks against the United States in a few days. Permanently. I would first apologize — very publicly and very sincerely — to all the widows and orphans, the tortured and impoverished, and all the many millions of other victims of American imperialism. Then I would announce that America’s global interventions have come to an end and inform Israel that it is no longer the 51st state of the union but — believe it or not — a foreign country. I would then reduce the military budget by at least 90% and use the savings to pay reparations to our victims and repair the damage from our bombings. There would be enough money. Do you know what one year’s military budget is equal to? One year. It’s equal to more than $20,000 per hour for every hour since Jesus Christ was born. That’s what I’d do on my first three days in the White House. On the fourth day, I’d be assassinated.”
@shawn
No it is not just “an” opinion of mine. I am also of an opinion the sun rises from the east and stubborn enough not to listen to anyone saying something different.
You cannot have a solution to a problem if you don’t even know what the problem really is. As far as a solution is concerned, well, I like Mr. Blum’s. Do you?
I am pretty sure you have family in the army to keep such naive and childish views about the ISI. an agency which is totallr free from law and regulation and is “awarded money” based on how many people it can hand over to the US and i quote mush “anyone who questions our commitment to the war on terrorism, should ask the CIA how much award money it has given us”
no one is cursing you.you are brain washed and need to open your eyes.
Indeed sad! May Allah have mercy on us all. But what I see from all the comments is a confused picture.
1. These extra-judicial ‘kidnappings’ may be true. I cannot say anything. I have no proof for either.
2. All I can guess is that some may be wrongfully detained. How many? Maybe 50% or maybe 99%. cannot say.
3. What I know is that agencies have been doing this since the beginning. Whether under military or civilian governments.
4. What I have read and seen, it is being myopic by mentioning President, CJP, Army, etc. I am sure neither one has ever checked with the agency’s operations !
5. It just seems that US wants (1) Access to Central Asian oil (2) Block off China and Russia to warm waters (3) stop Pak’s nuclear capability (4) get better hold of Muslim region around the gulf.
6. What better way than to capture NWFP, Baluchistan and Afganistan and destabilize/dismantle pakistan (god forbid).
7. All that with India and Israel both more than eager to help on this front.
8. Why articles on Pahtoonistan in newweek, and similar media campaigns against Pakistan?
9. I do not see ANYONE out there who can hold on for Pakistan. Nor BB not NS not anyone.
10. Whether we like it or not, it only a strong Army with the hold on nuclear capability that can prevent things.
11. What better way, apart from all out war, to paralyze the army? to turn people againmst the army?
Let’s make our decesions ourselves and ask Allah for guidance.
let me ask you a question.
How many people were standing there when boy’s trousers were removed? how many dared to put those on him? how many tried to save that woman? they were just watching them insulted right? is this our character and we are worried about iraq/ afghan? please dont worry about iraq/ arabs. If you have lived in some arab country/ iraq you would know how much they love pakistanis. they treat them like a sh*t.
how many muslims supported us against indian attacked us? you are worried about US govt hating muslims but look first to your muslims. better look first to your country. how our own police treat us?
In “War and Peace” , Leo Tolstoy showed that historians look at the war from 30,000 feet above, they look at the outcome of the war in terms of the actions of war leaders. However the course of war is decided not because of the actions of leaders instead it is decided based on the actions of hunderds of thousands of those human beings who are considered as fodder of the war.
In this war in Pakistan, I think the course will be decided by the people who are suffering , I am praying Amna Janjua and her companions along with thousands of lawyers, human right activists and civil society members do not loose heart and keep their struggle alive against all the odds. I know how much despair there will be for the relatives of missing people after the removal of CJ but let us keep this struggle alive , let us not accept what is happening, we need to keep going, these are testing times….
One more for you shawn:
“Is the United States Against Terrorism?
Are we now to believe that the American Empire is against terrorism? What does one call a man who blows up an airplane killing 73 civilians for political reasons; who attempts assassinations against several diplomats; who fires cannons at ships docked in American ports; who places bombs in numerous commercial and diplomatic buildings in the US and abroad? Dozens of such acts. His name is Orlando Bosch, he’s Cuban and he lives in Miami, unmolested by the authorities. The city of Miami once declared a day in his honor-Dr. Orlando Bosch Day. He was freed from prison in Venezuela in 1988, where he had been held for the airplane bombing, partly because of pressure from the American ambassador at the time, Otto Reich, who in 2002 was appointed to a high position in the State Department by President Bush.”
O’Allah save me, my family and all friends and their families from all types of miseries or even tests. We are not so strong believer even to think of them. Please give us peace and keep us free from all the miseries inside and outside the country.
I suspect villain has normally a very long life and has full authority to make all his tortures and vicious plans come true. But this makes me think, if a person can think of himself so authoritative, so strong, why shouldn’t we believe that the Creator ought to be the Most Authoritative. If we try to move in the right direction now, He will not leave us alone. Let us all join hands and strenghten the pillars of the society by supporting them physically, morally and financially. We should think ourselves as a system and should start from the pillars. No one can stop us to join media, journalists, lawyers, politicians whom we could trust.
So you think Pakistan will be more safe from US/India/Israel by arresting and kidnapping children of 16 years?
Remember our biggest enemy is our myopic nature.
If we establish rule of law where people get justice (I do hope you know the meaning of this word) If we have democracy so that people choose their leadership then people will be united and STAND behind the govt in case of external problems.
But to suppress our own citizens by raising the bogie of external threat is simply not done.
Just look accross the border to India. During Kargil our Army captured kargil. Indian army was sleeping. But when they realised the problem the entire nation rallied behind Indian leadership. (Do you know that cost of Kargil war for India was 2500 crore rupees and Indian people voluntarily contributed close to 3800 crore rupees for their defence fund). Whereas on our side the killer of Northern Light Infantry (Musharraf) removed the elected leader. People were confused. Noone was telling the truth.
Our socalled “mitti ke sher” army did not accept bodies of our soldiers killed in Kargil.
So the strength of a nation is not its agencies rather it is its people.
If people are happy in a nation, if they are educated, if they get justice then the nation is strong. In all surveys more than 85% of philipine population is found to be optimistic. Why ? because they have rule of law. Their police cannot humiliate its citizens.
If there is problem with courts or law against terrorism then what stops us from making law.
Obviously our leaders spend months on “chor-chor bhai-bhai” NRO.
But to arrest and torture someone without charge is CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY.
Did youu see the frightened faces of the two journalists who were freed after 3 months of torture?
What a shame that our army feels happy by beating our own citizens, torturing them, kidnapping them.
It is not an army of a nation but a gang of murderers. ISI is a gang of cut throats and both must be dismantled gradually and new forces created with strict control over them by civilian government.
@ nota
Do you know?
Pakistan is still paying a heavy price for providing shelter to afghan refugees who have always h*ted pakistan and loved and supported india in any war against pakistan. I hope you know about the durrand line.
Afghanistan was first to oppose creation of Pakistan.
Iraq also was more inclined to India and it favoured India in Indo_pakistan war.
Afghani immigrants to pakistan sold klash*nkovs to pakistani people, sold Her*ion to pakistanis, bringing drug culture and terrorism. Did you ever hear of her*in and use of kla*hinkov in seventees?
These arms are still being used in ethnic and secterian v*olence in pakistan against pakistani muslims by the muslims. They have smuggled alc*hol, and pro*titutes here.
Why it is “always� duty of pakistani to support other muslim countries in their fight? Isn’t it one sided?
where were the muslim countries when India attacked pakistan?
Instead of crying for and helping them we should help our country. we should help our lawyers and journalists and civil societies to bring freedom to our country against a dictator. I read in newspapers that people from pakistan were supporting foriegners and giving them asylum. May I ask why? Why don’t you support your poor Pakistani brothers instead? we should also trust our army instead of cursing them. It is this army that has kept you safe against neighbours attack. mind it!
Pakistan was created in the name of Islam. It is suppossed to be home for all muslims. So we need to help other muslim countries.
And it was not afgans who brought kalashnikov in pakistan. It was CIA and our own ISI.
Our own ISI controlled drug trade to supply weapon and finance war in kashmir (It is open secret and no point in denying it).
So it is not afgans but our own Army responsible for gun culture. (They needed cannon fodder in anti-soviet war).
It is not afgans but ISI who started and controlled the narcotics trade. All major mujahid warlords were puppets of ISI.
Even taliban were created and controlled by our army.
Moreover India has not attacked us. It is another lie spread by the army. Our own army along with tribes in frontier attacked Kashmir in 1947. Our army attacked India in Rann of Kutch and Kashmir in 1965, Our airforce attacked India in 1971, our army attacked India in Kargil.
So please realise the truth. India is not the enemy. It is our own feudalistic setup and our Army and our own ISI.
These are monsters we should eliminate to make our country developed.
Donot just hate Musharraf. He is just one face of establishment. Realist the truth.
It is ISI and Army (that runs businesses, property dealing and also controls our government by rigging elections) which is biggest enemy of our people.
Our army has no respect for people’s decision so they constantly rig the elections.
@shawn
Quit it. YOu have nothing to offer so you come up with this tr*sh. No ones buying it. So what if Afghanistan has never supported us; that does not give us the right to bomb them to smithereens. About AK-47s and pr*st*tutes and drugs, Naumeed has already answered you.
“Why it is “alwaysâ€? duty of pakistani to support other muslim countries in their fight? Isn’t it one sided?” BECAUSE they are our brothers and sisters and are Muslims and not selfish when it comes to that. Y*u r*ally are a bl**dy r*cist but of course you won’t believe it So shoo away and go hide behind the Durand line :p
You are wrong. Our army raped and killed not thousands but millions. According to the latest research the figure is close to 3 million.
In all respects our army is many times worst than german Nazis. Afterall Nazis killed 6 million in 6 years and our army killed 3 million civilians in 8 months.
lanat ho aise police per ju apne hi citizen per zulm kero. Ghuda gharat kerey in zalimoon ko… this is disgusting. this is embarrasing. Is this the true face of society? i am ashamed and i am embarassad so much today. what a pity on us, the pakistani nation…. we are seeing every bit of zulm around us and still we are keeping quite.. and still those zaleel hukmraan are ruling us.
This attitude of our nation has reminded me many of hitorical nations disgusting moral grounds that holy Quran has depicted very clealy. today i am feeling that we are also among one of those nations (if not the worst among them)…
shame on you mush, shame on you wasi and shame on those who support these zalims…
shame on us(including me), the pakistan nation, who are still quite and watching this infront of our gunahgaar eyes….
@Naumeed
I can’t belive it. I am pleasantly shocked. Honestly, I had prepared myself to receive comments with uncivil language and calling me agents of the devil. You have proved me wrong and I am glad you did. Now I can believe that Pakistan is changing for the better and will be a country it was supposed to be.
May Allah bless you with the strength to be on side of the truth. That is the real spirituality. We must agree and disagree with one another based upon our convictions and should rise above the controlled environment prescribed to us by the Allah’s Agents (clergy). A highly evolved soul (true saint) has said, “Truthfulness is the foundation of all human virtues”.
May we all have that strength.
what a start to the day. i feel ashamed for doing nothing except to write few lines for those who are suffering .we all knew these things were happening for a long time. it is us who dont want to see or beleave the truth. how could peoples in waziristan and other parts of pakistan trust this govt. for any compromise when they experienced of being betrayed many many times. good to see NS is a changed person up to now . it is a brave brave thing to say a single sentence against the US he knows where the problem lies unlike BB who is ready to send invitaion letter to the US to come and to do anything they like. only we pakistanis can bring change in pakistan through understanding, dialogue & brotherhood whether it is NWFP or balochistan or any other place. i hope NS is not an opportunist but i feel he is better than others. great job admin for posting the video.
what a start to the day. i feel ashamed for doing nothing except to write few lines for those who are suffering .we all knew these things were happening for a long time. it is us who dont want to see or beleave the truth. how could peoples in waziristan and other parts of pakistan trust this govt. for any compromise when they experienced of being betrayed many many times. good to see NS is a changed person up to now . it is a brave brave thing to say a single sentence against the US he knows where the problem lies unlike BB who is ready to send invitaion letter to the US to come and to do anything they like. only we pakistanis can bring change in pakistan through understanding, dialogue & brotherhood whether it is NWFP or balochistan or any other place. i hope NS is not an opportunist but i feel he is better than others. great job boss for posting the video.
Did you notice my userID. It is Naumeed. I have no hope. Pakistan is going to be destroyed soon and here is my prediction.
1. Musharraf becomes civilian president.
2. Using his chamcha Kiyani elections are rigged to favour BB, Fazlu, PML-Q and against Nawaz. It shall result in a hung assembly.
3. BB + PML-Q + Fazlu form a coalition.
4. Nawaz is in opposition.
5. In next 3years Musharraf becomes weak and is removed.
6. Poverty rises, inflation becomes very high and people are fed up because of mismanagement in 3 years.
7. New president dismissed the govt.
8. Another hung assembly for 3-4 years.
9. Army comes back to power.
10. Pakistani provinces revolt and pakistan breaks up in Sindh, Balochistan, Frontier and Punjab.
The only way out of this mess: Dismantle ISI, Kick our army in barracks, Neutral govt under old judiciary, free and fair elections and national government of Nawaz + BB.
Those who were born after 1970 or were kids at that time, will not know something called “Operation Searchlight”, an estimated 300,000 people were systematically killed. Read here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Searchlight
Also do not forget “operation silence” and “operation balochistan” and “operation in swat” , although enemy has changed but our army is the same, doing same atrocities.
“Kill three million of them, and the rest will eat out of our hands” Yahya Khan
“This is not 70, they would not know what hit them” Pervez Musharraf
“Sab Maray jain gay.. mein keh raha hoon sab maray jain gay” Pervez Musharraf
“All will be killed , I am telling them all will be killed”
Today, Instead of being proud, I fell ashamed of being Pakistani.
The way they took off the pujama of young child infront of his mother and sister. I used to see it in Pakistani movies about indian army in Kashmir but I never knew that pakistani police could do this even in Islamabad. Shame one Pak Police and shame on Pak Army and Shame on you Mr Musharaf.
Just to remind everyone that everyone have to die one day and there will be the judgment day.
@ Shawn..
you wrote “Our intelligentia are no fools.why would they take mine or your family? thats the proof they havent picked up any of your family member since they know they are innocent beyond doubt.”
you are saying that the fact thay your or my family has not been affected its a proof that intelligence agency are picking up only the guilty people. How naive? There is a imple reason for this. Did you not notice what kind of people were being snathed? Lower class people. You and I who have some connections, havea ccess to education and media will no be an easy target.
I am sure you will at-least not deny that police in pakistan tortures unlawfully. Now, I will not be surprised that yours and mine families have not been tortured by police but can that be an argument to say that police is fine?
The most important thing which pakistan needs is the rule of law.The only solution to all these problems is free judiciary.
Thats why we the youth support Imran Khan because he is the only man who is really working for the rule of law.
What a reckless evil.Very shameful images.
A very impressive attempt to raise voice over the issue of missing people.
I will spread this video to the others.
I like to shout like amina and tell every body what nasty things are going on in Pakistan. A group of shameless persons have ruin our country and its innocent people.
May Allah help us all
Let me change some of text to make it look like current situation.
”
Requirements for Success
1. The military will launch the operation simultaneously all across Banga– (Pakistan).
2. Maximum number of political and student leaders, and those among cultural organizations and teaching staff to be arrested.
5. All internal and international communications will be cut off including Telephones, TV, Radios, Telegraphs, transmitters.
7. To deceive the Awami League, Yahia Khan (Musharaf) may pretend to continue the dialogue (with opposition), even if Mr. Bhutto (opposition) disagrees, agree to Awami League (Govt) demands .
“
I WILL LIKE TO SHARE WITH YOU ONE STORY OF A MISSING PERSON. HE WAS BASICALLY A PAKISTANI AND A DOCTOR BY PROFESSION IN MALAYSIA. HE HAD COME TO PAKISTAN ON A 2 YEAR DEPUTATION. DURING HIS STAY HERE HE CAME TO GET IN LOVE WITH A DAUGHTER OF A BRIGADIER WHO UNFORTUNATELY WAS IN ISI. WHEN THE BRIG CAME TO KNOW ALL THIS HE ORDERED THE ABDUCTION OF THAT MAN AND HE WENT MISSING FOR LIKE 8 MONTHS AND WAS TORTURED IN A SAFE HOUSE IN LAHORE. THE CJ HAD ORDERED HIS RELEASE AND ON THE NEXT HEARING OF THE MISSING PERSONS CASE HE WAS TO BE PRODUCED BUT UNFORTUNATELY THE CJ IS NO MORE IN THE COURT……
THIS IS HOW ISI HAS USED ITS POWERS FOR PERSONAL GAINS. AS I SAID IN MY EARLIER POST LAST NIGHT TOMMOROW KIYANI IS TAKING OFF FROM MUSHARAF SO ONE B**TARD GOES ANOTHER COMES……… DONT EXPECT ANYTHING GOOD FROM KIYANI BECUASE WHATEVER HE WANTED HE WILL GET IT TOMMOROW……..
all i just want to say that we as a nation have become selfish . we dont feel the pain of others . where is those people who support musharraf ?
dont they see this tyrany by armed and uniformed gangs
i was just thinking that if this happens to me or my brother then what will i do?
but i cudnt give myself an answer
This is so much embarrassing… what a shameful nation we have become just becomes of the tyrant army rules who do everything against their powerless nation.
one thing everyone is forgetting is that these dictators can never be successful unless and until they people like wasi zafar, Sheikh Rashid, Justice Malik Qayyum justice dogar, sher afgun, sharifudin pirzada, and the list will go on and on (this is shameful too). we must get rid of these mir jafars inside our society and then we may be able to get rid of these tyrants.
Als! God we dont want military. we may be more free and protected without these brutal people.
Munir Malik roaring on Geo, he is so weak, but I am sure mad general will still have his pants wet after hearing him.
“3 november wali situation bahal hoogi”
Politicians are only doing posturing. We must struggle for restoration of the judiciary to pre-3 Nov position and complete restoration of constitution. That is the only way to save the country from the Beghairat Army and beghairat politicians. If we as a nation need a ‘danda’, that might well come from the SC rather than anyone else. Restore the judiciary and there is some hope.
@hafiz
“where is those people who support musharraf? dont they see this tyrany by armed and uniformed gangs”
WE are the people who support Musharraf be it by in-action, be it by staying quiet when we should be yelling and screaming bloody murder. We support him when we hob-knob with his cronies, feel proud getting invited to Chaudhry’s son’s wedding, play golf with an industrialist who has billions in loans written off; we support him when we congratulate our uncle for getting a PML-Q ticket; we support him when we don’t boycott a once-national asset that was sold to his cronie or foreign government for pennies on the dollar; we support him when we visit our cousin Major in his new house gifted to him by Mush and say how lovely it is; we support him when we proudly marry our daughter to a General’s son thinking she will be well taken care of and knowing in the back of our mind none of his wealth was acquired deservedly….
Restoration of judiciary means that no noe will be able to be a scoundrel agin inl the Generals and the politicians. Must rememebr what happened to the SC when NS was the PM and the person who has won the title of Beghairat-e- Azam Qayyaum (the AG) was appointed by BB!
The biggest crime of CJ Iftikhar Chaudary was taking the police to task, I know that it was a very quiet revolution going on in Pakistan, he institued cases against several big police officers. He used to snub IG/DIG’s in the court and taking lead many other Judges were also doing the same , I know Justice Khwaja Sharif, Javaid Iqbal, Justice Sabihuddin in Sind were following CJ in this respect.
Several police officers were awarded punishment and many others were suspended.
And I know CJ is very pragmatic he was not a revolutionary, he kept giving time to agencies, but I remember he threatened to do the same with intelligence chiefs which he was doing with police chiefs.
Honorable Cheif Justice of Pakistan Mr. Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Ch.
Nishan-e- Pakistan and Nishan-e- Shuja’at
All the judges of the superior judiciary who did not take oath under the PCO on 3rdNov07.
Nishan-e- Shuja’at and Nishan-e- Imtiaz
All the Advocates Supreme Court who were arrested by Mush.
Hial-e-Shuja’at
In addition Aitezaz Ahsan, Munir A Malik & Ali Ahmed Kurd Advocate
Nishan-e- Shuja’at
All lawyers who were or are being arrested by Mush puppets
Hilal-e-Imtiaz
The people of pakistan have stripped President of Pakistan General Pervez Musharraf of Imtiazi Sanad, Tamgha-e- Basalat and Nishan-e-Pakistan and he has been awarded two new medals called:
Nishan-e-Beghairat and Sitara-e-Buzdil
To change the sombre mood here Fazlu ki shan mai chand asha’ar (the first stanza was sent yesterday as well)
Makar-o-Faraib ki Andhi hai
Jhoot Ka Chalta Jhakkar hai
Parrh Surah Bechay Qur’an
Maulana Fazul-ur-Rehman
Dekhnay Say dar lagta hai
Samp say milta julta hai
Mullah siasat ki hai shan
Maulana Fazul-ur-Rehman
Har Amir ka chamcha hai
Jurnailon ka agent hai
Pait bara hai lumbi zuban
Maulana Fazul-ur-Rehman
(in the misra ‘Jurnailon ka—-’, I wanted to write the name of a najis animal but then Allah’s name stops me from doing that. Actually that is what he is!). Like every shair I need positive feedback. This is the only website getting the hasbay hal shairi from me.
iam feeling shame being a pakistani i wish i would not be a pakistani the police man who pulling two girls’ hair was nothging less than a beast
shame on me and all of those pakistanies who were watching this whole unbearable scene
you know, history keeps on repeating itself but us pakis have a poor memory.
Zia brought a puppet junejo….got too arrogant, got killed.
We elect these prime ministers who are really corrupt and are as worse as any dictator. people get frustrated. another military ruler comes in. and the cycle continures.
its time to elect some one different…..imran khan is the answer.
Assalam o Alikum dear All
First of all we have to look why it is happening with us?why rulers like Musharraf are forced on us?i think when we are going away from Allah’Dee.Daily we see Allahs Hadood being broken by us and by our rulers.Allah has also given us a way to live our countries that is His Sharia.Then who is stopping us to put Allah,s Law at this land called pakistan??? we have to think and act.May Allah have His mercy on muslim Ummah.May Allah help Deen e Muhammad.May Allah help us and have mercy on us.Wassalam
Saudi arabia has these laws and yet people there have no freedom. They also donot have the freedom of speech and rule of law. For smae crime you may get no punishment or your hands may be chopped off. It all depends upon the judge’s mood.
We donot need such laws.
Look at India. We got self rule at the same time (I cannot say independence as we are still slaves of our army) India made secular laws, independent judiciary, free media, free election commission, eliminated feudal system.
Now India is developing so fast that they are economic major power. In next 30 years it may even become moderately developed.
Did India had Shariat laws? No.
With all due respect to Shariat we need progressive laws not like hudood laws where a women needs 4 pious male witness to prove that she was raped.
We need to enforce monogamy and enforce population control like China. What is the point of giving birth if we force our children to work at the age of 10.
Our constitution of 1973 was great but army never allowed it to function. They rigged elections. They dismissed popularly elected leaders. They hatched conspiracies to prevent people’s voice.
What we need is not Caliphate but genunine democracy.
The time of Badshah is over this is age of equality. If we fail to make poor person equal to a rich man atleast electorally then Pakistan is lost.
This is heart breaking clip and today i question the creation of pakistan.is pakistan came into being for army rulers and corrupt politicians.musharraf is brutal person,he will kill many more to stay in power.napak fauj murdabad.
I fully aympathise with your sentiments. But, I am afraid the issues are not as simple as you think.
The issue is not Musharraf but army’s rule. And the same Huddod’s taht you are referring to were enforced by Zia, another army ruler. If not following Allah’s rule is the reason for our mess why were we in a mess under Zia who actually promoted these rules? Further, yes many are not following religious teaching in pakistan but millions and millions are. Why are they being forced to bear Musharraf? Why this injustice?
Also almost all the developed countries in the world are not Islamic, or even religious, at-least in governance. By your logic, all of them should have been in a mess.
The House of Saud, the most corrupt house in the world, is enjoying prosperity for a century, benefitting from Allah’s house. By your logic they should have been destroyed.
Also, who will decide what rules of Allah to follow? Shi, Sunni, Wahabi etc? There is not one Sharia, not one interpretation of the Quran, not even a consensus about what should regarded as hadith…
in fact, too much of reference to religion has been part of our problem. Our masses are led to believe that they are in poor condition not because some other humans are denying them their rights but beacuse Allah wishes so. We are told to tolerate exploitation beacuse we will be rewarded in the other life. Mullah-Military alliance is part of our problem.
Well,
Its not just that start blamming military, police, agencies. The point is these people are part of the society. They are us. Dictators and Establishment is 1 % or less of total. But what is Wrong with us. Its our brothers who join Army, Its our brothers Who join sevices. It is us who make the mess and then welcome Army to take over. It is us who elect the wrong people,(And we do know when we go to vote that they are not the best choice). The person who desrves selection losses becuase of no connections, broader family relations, money, status.We let these peple lose and let win the idiots.
Its past 60 years, we have been making wrong dicisions. You all have a common sense. Please think carefully and asses and chose the one who deserves.
JUDA HO DEEN SIAASET SEY
TO REH JAATI HAY CHENGAIZI…
THERE IS CHANGAZI GOING ON IN THIS WORLD …REGARLDLESS OF WHICH RELEGION THE COUNTRY BELOGS TO ..THEY ARE ALL FAR AWAY FROM DEEN…
it has become fashion these days to condemn relegious school of thoughts for the sake of imitating western life style…what has that western school of (so called developed countries )given humanity…
1-depression
2-intolerance
3-most divorce rate
4-most suicide rate
5-lonliness
6-aimless life
etc etc
both mullah and west are lost souls…..MUHAMMADISM IS THE SOLUTION…SEARCH ON IT BEFORE GIVING UR “INTELLECTUAL COMMENTS” ON RELEGION
i have come to know wt hatred is the first time in my life.. after watchin this video my hatred for mushy has grown to a level where i never imagined i will ever hate any human with such intensity…. .
i wud urge u all to send this video to atleast 100 ppl or as many ppl as u can so all of us can understand wt can lead to a suicide bomb and how vulnerable we pakistani s are at the mercy of our very own govt and previlged.. if v cant do sumthign else atleast we can send this video to others so they can knw the truth as well.
up uptill now being in favour of mushy could ave been a matter of opinion or choice but after seeing all this anyone still supporting mushy can be categorized as devoid of having any human emotion.
Our country was destroyed by two extreams. One under Zia, where he tried to impose so called Islam on us and then by Mush who divided the society into two groups . Cronies who are supporting him (includes people like AH ) are moderates and anyone opposing him is extreamist.
The reality lies somewhere in between your statements. Having the need and desire of implementation of sharia or Islamic law is not bad in itself. This, in fact, is an aim every Muslim should have in his or her life. How to do that is a separate debate. It is not a solution to do it like Zia did (in his own thinking), the Saudi interpretation of Islam is also sickening where Islam applies to some portions of life and not to some others (for example there is no concept of monarchy in Islam), also the MMA style Islamization of double faced politics is not islamic at all. Also it is not like we are doomed because of our irreligious tendencies and should just lament over it. The truth is, in fact, realizing that we are a victim of lack of education, poverty and deprivation and our lack of understanding of Islam is also a result of that. This oppressive system has succeeded in creating two classes, the so called educated liberals who think Islam is humbug and Quran only good for recitation (without knowing its meaning) on deaths or seeing your daughters off under the shadow of, on weddings. The other class is the misled enthusiasts who think that by focing everyone to become Muslims they will achieve the goal. Our solution rests in two things: educating the destitutes in modern knowledge and letting them grasp the true spirit of Islam and for so called liberal people like us, who can spend half of their lives learning and understanding alien languages and techniques for practical life, to at least spend half as much effort in understanding Islam. Rest assured all the confusions and differences in interpretations, in implementation etc will evaporate. Because there was only one Islam that was taught to Muslims by the Prophet – no Sunni Islam, or Shia Islam or Brelvi or Deobandi Islam.
Just an addition to my earlier post:
Following one school of thought does not make one a different Muslim or a non muslim. As someone said above, there are different Sharias at work. No there is just one sharia, its just that is has room and flexibility for personal, territorial and regional differences. The only problem is that we, the educated Muslims do not give two hoots about at least knowing what Islam is all about. When you do that, it is very simple actually and once you have done that you can blast the ideas of the MMA and their likes to sand.
This is Aslam Begs’ old opinion and if you combine it with Nusrat Javeds’ statement on live with talat (wardi na utarna wala), Nustrat said that after wardi wo aslam beg jaisa lagey ga
i hope so too…i hope that when he take off his wardi he is not allowed to wear any other cloth as well and shld be roamed around in the city of isd …without clothes on a donkey with his face sprayed black….and “enlightened moderation” be stamped on his back….
@naumeed
being a muslim is important than being a pakistani. everything at present is showing that democracy is the right system for a good life but dont forget there is a life afterwards. how much you criticize sharia but Allah has told us to choose that path. whole thing is based on priorities if our life is influenced by these worldly resources then ofcourse we are going to support these systems. like it or not but sharia is the right way for every believer
here and afterwards. unfortunately we knew little about our religion practicing is the different thing but what the Allah and Prophet Muhammad(S.A.W.W) has told us is cent percent true full stop.
Indeed Musharraf takes the cake for being the most baighairat of all dictators that we have had. The ease and the dhitai with which he keeps moving the goal posts is annoying to the nth level.
Sigh! May we be rid of him soon. I was talking to an old relative of mine and the statement that she gave made me realize how deeply do people resent him and yet are unable to do anything. She said with a sigh, “Chalo ker ley jitni hakoomat kerna chahta hai, Kab tak karey ga. 63 ka ho gaya hai. Kabhi tou marey ga”. However, what she did not know was key mertey mertey poorey mulk ko maar dey ga!
People like Musharaf think that this world is the end and they are immortal (remember Zia-ul Haq) but they always forget that Allah is above them and will hold them responsible of their sins one day!
“Dictatorship is a constant lecture instructing you that your feelings, your thoughts and desires are of no account, that you are a nobody and must live as you are told by other people who desire and think for you.”
- Stephen Vizinczey
***************************************
Democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time. -WINSTON CHURCHILL, speech, Nov. 11, 1947
I think we must distinguish between religion and morality/ethics.
I was not suggesting that morality should be separated from politics, but religion must.
Siyasat becomes changezi when morality is excluded from it.
Religion has an extremely important role to play in our everyday life and gives meaning to it. But in today’s society when we have many religions – or many interpretations of the same religion – it is best that our political decisions, particularly or law making, are not guided by appeal to religion.
Why? there are many reasons but let me put forward just one. Diversity in religious interpretations. Just take the issue of women. In response the Mush government’s desire to change hudood laws we saw the various interpretations. We can say that those who were against the change did not understand true islam but the others would same the same. Mush’s enlightened moderation would appear misguided to Taliban and Taliban’s Islam would appear misguided to liberals and so on.
Now, there is no harm if everybody practices his or her understanding of religion. The problem comes when one tries to impose his or her understanding on others. If government is not de-linked from religion this is the danger. we see this in Iran where non Shias are oppressed; in SArabia where non-Sunnies are oppressed; in Pakistan where minority religions are oppressed; even India under the influence of religious Right became oppressive for Muslims and others.
In light of religious diversity and because, I believe, no religion or sect within a religion should be allowed to have the dominance, the business of state shopuld be run in a secular manner.
Jinnah too had such a vision: “Now, I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the state”. August 11, 1947.
secularism has lead societies towards total blindness….but i think its useless to talk about this in this forum..since inflated egos wouldnt let no body learn any thing…
You and your fundamentalist views can go take a hike. Go on keep supporting Zia’s Hudood laws, MMA and Baitullah Maisood in SWAT who are demanding Shariat.
Taliban had imposed Shariat iin Afganistan and life had become hell in this world.
Being a “muslim before pakistani” theory is the reason for all international terrorism. People in london killing innocent school childred in buses by bombing just because British govt is supporting Israel is illogical and utter nonsense.
Learn to question. Because from questioning comes knowledge. But people like you donot understand the meaning of knowledge. People like you should only learn arabic and stay away from English as it is Kaffir language.
Try to be a human before you shout for being a muslim.
For people like you life after death is more important then why do you not die?
For people like you a hungry childs tear means nothing, pain of people mean nothing because to remove these one has to use machines which are made in factories and these factories are constructed on loans (on interest) so they are haram, eh?
Why are you using internet by the way as it is a kaffir techmology.
People like you are total bigots and have destroyed our country. Go an settle in Saudi arabia in Mecca because for you this country comes later. Right.
Also if tommarrow Saudi Arabia attacks Pakistan then you will fight on the side of Saudi arabia because that is Allah’s country.
Shame on you for being ostrich like.
People like you want to DERAIL this forum because your beloved Army is being bashed here.
You can go and do what ever you want in your house but you have no right to dictate as to how the rest of us ( sane Pakistanis) should live.
Keep supporting army and we will kick your a$$ soon.
I am amazed that after watching evidences like this, some still find ways to defend the post nine-eleven regime in Pakistan.
To say that this did not happen or is exaggerated means we are turning a blind eye to the menifest truth.
To somehow explain the resons why police and agencies under musharraf govt committed acts of terror like this one is rationalization. You can rationalize just about anything if you want to. We must remember that even Hitler rationalized his terror acts which culminated into killing millions.
May God save us from these tribulations. Perhaps these are our own collective sins which have brought rulers like musharraf but obviously some of us are made to pay much more than others.
It is important to remember that in the end we are all in the same boat which is sinking and it will sink everyone with it.
I feel so ashamed being called a pakistani if this is what happens in Pakistan. i really dont have words to express my feelings. i am in tears watching this….never felt so ashamed before. The family seemed a normal middle class educated family….
i am even more ashamed at number of Pakistanies posting comments in favour of this video. For those just be honest for 5 seconds if this was your family?
This is precisely the point. Your and mine model is Muhammad (pbuh) but he is not the model for Hindus and Christians and others who also living in Pakistan.
Apply your ideas to countries where Muslims are in minority. Already we can see that as Christianity and Hinduism are coming back to Europe and India, Muslims are facing greater hardship. If Europe become Christian politically, it may make laws that may even prohibit practice of Islam (beacuse they may say that Islam is not a religion; Christianity is the final religion). If India starts to make laws according its Gita and Ramayan what will happen to Muslims? Muslims will have a very very difficult life if Europe becomes Christian and says Jesus is our model or in India they make Rama their model. So i would like all countries to be secular and not make laws according to majority religion otherwise minorities everywhere will have difficulties.
Also think about it? Why was Paksitan created in the first place? The fear was that a Hindi majorioty India will make make laws according to Hinduism and this will be deterimental to Muslims. But then, is it right that we make our minority Christians and Hindus and others second class citizens? You probably knwo that constitutionally no non-Muslim can be the President of Pakistan. And you know that even a man like shahid masood had commented negatively whem Bhagwan Das became CJ. But you saw what good role he played. to serve paksitan it is not necessary to be a Muslim.
Don’t just think of Paksitan where Muslims – Sunni Muslims – are in majority. Apply your thinking across the world and you will see that if it is followed, in many many places muslims will suffer.
It is best in a religiously plural world that our political decisions are not made on religious grounds.
Finally, please try to understand that secular is not anti-religious or atheist. I call myself secular. I am a practising Muslim and proud to be one. But I am secular because i would not like to make laws based on religion. I have morals and i apply morality to politics but not my religion. Secular state does not mean secular society. America is a secular society; India is a secular society but both are highly religious. Do not confuse the isuse and think calmly rather then getting upset.
@tipu
I understand your perspective and appreciate your taking time to explain it.
here is my piont of view
I think there has been only one relegion since the inception of Human being into this earth…that relegion says “this world is created by GOD and there is a world after death and this life is very short ,if you want to be successful you better live this life according to the rules and regulations mentioned by the creator.”
if one beleive in tha above mentioned statement and hold this belief throughout his life then every thing falls in place and islam is the relegion which tells us how to make this possible,,how to keep ourselves away from the enticements and temptations of devil and how to stick to this basic belive…this beleve is the root cause of all the blessings and successes in this world and hereafter …any success without this belief is mere illusion …
p.s if you look at the political systems ,all of them have derived the basic theology of law ,juriprudence ,rules of ethics morality and henceforth from the same law of accountability presented by the relegion….more they get stiffer towards the theology of this basic relegion ..the more the societies will nurture and will attain tranquility both individually and at the level of govt….
i would need more time to explain this and this forum is not the adequat platform for it ,neither do i know howmuch time you possess..so i will leave it here ..
This video has made me heavy heart as all of you, although its not what we already don’t know but the graphic display made us all present at the scene when the 16 years old kid was looking for help & now we feel equally guilty as those who were present there.
Musharaf is a curse of Allah on this nation which did nothing to save shaheed Z.A. Bhutto.
Musharaf will suck more blood than Shah of Iran, behind him is the same powerful Zionist lobby which has stakes all over the world, make no mistake high stakes are involved & all the top brass Generals are hooked by dirty money of earthquake relief fund,I mean billion of rupees.
Apparently Musharaf has no wisdom & when he talk the way he talk,its easy to tell he is far below normal intellect–Psychologically such below average people are made the best stooge.
We need a reform in our Army–First thing we do to get them out of Baluchistan University patronage–They must be given under PU or KU & standard of their degrees shouldn’t be below average standard of these universities.
No officer should go beyond Brigadier rank unless he pass the toughest levels of Masters Degrees conforming to standards of these Universities.
Participation of NS in election would also legitimize the election process
And more importantly it will help the previous deal traika(BB, madcow, Kiyyani)
If NS boycots election, he will directly help restore the judiciary, stamp the end of Musharraf regime, and things could be better.
If NS does not boycot elections, he will directly legitimise the elections, and more ffort will be required on the part of lawyers, journalists and like-minded politicians and put an end to the politics of NS himself.
Ns does not have the excuse of other parties whether or not supporting him. He has to decide on his own. He does not have the excuse of lack of support from other parties.
It is realy awaikning, we are saying overselves muslim and look to these people who have no emotions and no sense. believe shame to be a part of such a nation which cant protest for their rights. atleast we should ask that these people are humans. very depressed to see these images. May Allah give us courrege to fight these non-sense people.
Either case prime minister will BB for sure. If NS goes for elections BB will have legitimacy otherwise the whole world will say she won in the absence of creditable opposition.
i think during every martial law the generals are assigned (by america or ?) duty to demange the country severly. Gen yahyia did his job excellently in breaking Pakistan. Gen. zia also performed his job perfectly good by introducing secetarian intolarance among society and making seceret agencies uncontroable and ruthless by taking part in Afghan war.
Now Mush is busy in war on terror and now the severly demaging effects of this war on our country are there. This war has given respect to a prostitution and insult to a pious woman. To provide justice to the prostitution, hundreds of the innocent boys and girls are labled as terrorists and are killed in military operation, while on the other hand the pious gets justice in the form of insult, manhandled and imprisonment.
-see who comes after 10 years or so with new plans of destructions.
I am hugely impressed by the struggle of Mrs. Amna Janjua. I am absolutely convinced that her struggle caused the chains of these events in which we find our society getting up from a long sleep. This is so encouraging. I myself know how difficult it is to speak against ISI and I salute her courage to go a demonstrate in front of ISI headquarters, I know why the people standing at that time did not help her , it requires a courage of a lion to interfere in the affairs of ISI. But again she seems to me an iron lady.
I am convinced CJ Iftikhar would have got inspiration from her to stood up agains the inteligence chiefs on 9th of March, and I am also convinced that the biggest and unpordonable crime of CJ was to hear the case of missing persons.
I am somewhat passimistic today , I feel agencies in Pakistan are not going to forgive CJ and his fellow judges they will no be reinstated even if the mad general goes away.
But wait we as a nation need the courage of Amna Janjua , if one lady with 3 small kids can force the COAS to doff his uniform, can’t we 160 million people throw away these agencies into sea in karachi.
@shahid kinaree,saqibtahir and all pppp jayaalaaas.
what you guies say now…do you still sing praise of BB BAJI….
BB BAJI BARI SYAAANI ,BARI ACHHEEEEEE…..
PLZ CUT THE BB BAJI CRAP NOW…AND COME TO SEE THE REAL FACE OF THIS kemeeeeni aurat,and admit that she belongs to a kemmmeeeeneee family
its no surprise to me. I have been saying this all along that BB will make u-turns in her stance to favor Mush. Her US sponsor cannot allow her to go against their wishes and BB wants her $ 1.5 billion accounts back and wants to get in power.
Her supporters will once again come up with lame excuses and weak arguments with the same old claims of how ZA bhutto was hanged because he didnt compromise on principles. they fail to understand that it happened 2 decades ago and BB is no ZA bhutto. She is using her legacy to ruin this country and her blind followers are helping her.
I wonder what excuse they will come up with for her latest statement, i.e. ‘now that Mush is taking off uniform, there is a possibility of her working with him’ . I am sticking to my opinion that this woman is as conniving as they come.
In his novel “War and Peace� , Leo Tolstoy argued that the history is not shaped by “great men� , it is not Napoleans, Musharraf , Iftikhar Chaudarys of this world who move events, it is the massess , insignificant people , social pressures and several other forces that shape the events in history.
9th of March , 20th July , 3rd November and now 29th of November does not happen in Pakistan because General Pervez Musharraf had issues with CJ Iftikhar Chaudary, or US put pressure on Pervez Musharraf to patch up with BB, or King Abdullah allowed Nawaz Sharif to return to Pakistan.
It all started with 20 or so insignificant persons along with thousands and then hundreds of thousand people starting realizing something unthinkable.
This woman is unbelievable. Listen to how she is justifying her participation in elections . I seriously doubt the intelligence level of her followers. If you can’t see her u-turns, theres something seriously wrong in your upper floor .
Above comments have made me feel as pakistanis are strongly criticising our own army. This is not a good sign accusing army coz of few black sheeps. what about the judges who took oath under emergency combo.Aren’t they black sheeps too? what about Malik Qayyum and shareefuddin pirzada? and some more? this doesnt mean our whole judiciary is corrupt. Army is a very desciplined field. in the history of pakistan no army man has brought coup against any general. they have to obey orders. same is the case with police. both need some important corrective measures though. rightly said ” your army, your police, and the po0liticians are reflection of your people” they are not aliens. lets say if you want to destroy your own army? surely india will waste no time in attacking us. lets say goodbye to US. then who else? if you want conditions like iraq and afghanistan and fragility like iran, go ahead..do it!!!!!!!!!! i h*te musharraf for being a dictator, but the decision on war on terror was a wise one. you may disagree.
I am sure the Jawabdeh episode has given BB a taste of free media…
I will not be surprised if she was not ggrilled like this before – both in or out of Pakistan…
bottom line, she will not be interested in free media…free judiciary is never her priority…
so it seems pretty bad for us democrats at the moment…
but not unhopeful…this is just the beginning…it may take time, but freedom will come..
Tipu
Shame Shame Benazir……..everybody get ready for MR 10%…..he is coming back. Khawaja Tariq Rahim got party ticket from Lahore over jiyalaas. Khawaja Tariq Rahim was governor with Farooq Lagari.
and please push your history back and ask yourself why in the first place there was a need to have a war on terror…?
who in the first place created this ‘terror’ against which we are now fighting…?
what u-turn was taken by Mush after 9/11 regarding the support to Taliban?
If Mush was wise he would have not initiated Kargil and would not have continued to support Taliban after coming to power…
his decision to go for war on terror was not wise but only a necessity. He has himself said that US had threatened to bomb Pakistan to the stone age if we had not co-operated.
I cannot think of any decision by mush that can be called wise. Please enlighten me if you can…
Ok, BB just proved in her press conference she wont be supporting reinstatement of pre-nov 3 judiciary. A Dawn news journalist asked her she is not saying anything about pre-nov 3 judiciary. she answered ‘our struggle is for democracy and rule of law, and it is not for some people in the judiciary’ : ). The journalist emphasized his question again mentioning pre-nov 3 judiciary and she replied again our struggle is for restoration of democracy and rule of law.
I wonder how will her supporters defend this view of their leader.
Decision on war on terror has nothing to do with independent judiciary. let judges work and justice prevail.
With Nukes, Indian fear is over and Army can’t make people fool.
Nation is known by its people, their behavior, their social responsibility, education, determination… and not by ARMY. Justice is an important reflection of society and police is just one implementor for providing justice
Why Iraq and Afghanistan? Why not to be a normal one with abnormality removed.
BB has given her clear stance. She wants to go into elections and win them, then she will think about judiciary. She intentionally avoid giving statement regarding the restoration of judges. In fact she categorically sida, she wants independent judiciary. so the word ‘pre-November 3′ has been removed. We will see a lot of expectations from her.
I don’t think PPP supporters will sense that, since it is difficult to perceive. Rather they would perceive it but somehow try to defend it one way or the other.
I think BB is not here for fair election.
In her right mind she can not give unpopular statements just before elections like giving away Qadeer Khan or stupid statement about so called better treatment of punjabi PM.
During her deal with agencies she must have been assured that either there will be no election or they will be rigged in her favor.
After watching this video,I have no word to say to that little girl crying for his brother and to her brother who is being humuliated in Public .Shame on all of us being a Pakistani .Do we still think ,this is a Muslim country.This does not happen even in poorest country of Africa.In the begining.two girls are being dragged by a terrorist (policeman) and once again those girls are calling for Some Mohammed Bin Qasim.We all Pakistani are deaf and we do not deserve to be called as Muslims not even humanbeings.Dispensing justice has been the pride of Muslims and attracted many non-muslims to the circle of Islam but where CJ has been banned because he was dispensing justice.We all must ask this question to ourself.Are we muslims??????????????????? All the teachings of Islam are being practiced by non-muslims in the west but not by muslims.Because Only in the west you will find dignity of human beings.May God bless Pakistan.
Now we have to see the stance of NS. Will he start following the same suit? For him it is quite different. Because he will lose credibility and support from his workers and might lose. On the other hand, PPP supporters don’t care what their leader does, they will support her whatever she does.
the reason why Mush and BB are able to do all this is just one…
they have no fear of street protests.
With US supporting/ media black out and impotent judiciary, what pockets of resistance are there can be crushed…
so they fear nothing…
if people are the source of power in a democracy, people must show that they have this power in the first place,…
We have failed on this point…for a variety of reason….
I am sad…it seems this particular battle is now lost…
it is particularly sad that BB said these things justa day before Mush was going to leave his COAS office…
we must now concentrate on the battle of ideas…people will ahve to be educated to see the superiority of democracy only then will they realise their power and impose it…
brace yourself for a long battle in the night of darkness…but morning must come…must come…
BB and NS should stop giving lame excuses of APDM. The two big parties don’t need any stamp from other platforms. they should show their clear stance independent of other parties. The other parties would unite with them on either sides.
Whatever my friend. Doesn’t matter how she puts it. All this ’stating categorically’ and other such BS cant justify her actions. She can play all she wants with the words. Bottom line is she was the first one from opposition to support Mush and she is continuing to do so for her own interests.
This is an earnest appeal.
The elections need to be boycotted cuz participation in elections under emergency will legitimate the state of emergency as well as give credibility to the socalled new illegal judges.
Please boycott elections as well as the people participating in it. Imran Khan is not an emotional fool. he knows that standing against the opportunists is very important at that time.
I feel ashamed of all the politicians who are poarticipating in the elections. What good did all these opposition parties do in the Parliament of Musharraf last time that they dont want to leave the field open to them? what did fazlurrehman do for the nation? he was just busy in filling his pockets and tummy. As for BB she would do anything to be the next PM. more characterless than any prostitute i would say!
Please boycott elections. the are unconstitutional and un lawful.
Save Pakistan!
General doffing his uniform tomorrow:
This is perhaps the most significant achievment of Pakistan civil society in the last sixty years. In 1988, General Zia was never under such a pressure from public to doff his uniform or allow the democracy to work. He was killed not because there was unbearable civil society pressure. And then in 1971, Yahaya Khan had to leave because of the breakup of the country, and perhaps a little bit closer to the current situation was Ayub who had to leave because of some civil society pressure but I can not comment more on that.
IF (and this is a big IF) General does remove his uniform tomorrow , then that will be the single biggest achievement of the struggle of people, and I am sure it will be irreversible as because of those forces (free media, easy access to history, courageous civil society, irreversible actions of Judiciary and so many other) no future general will feel as easy to grab the power as Pervez Musharraf, Zia ul Haq, Yahya Khan, Ayub Khan felt.
I second you bro. After the nuclear test decision, NS boycotting would be his second bold decision. Lets hope he doesn’t lose his credibility like the lot.
@Admin,
Please put the latest BB press conference.
Guys BBs motives are very clear now. She appreciates Mush as a civilian President and now talks will start with him. PPP wants smooth transition of power and they will participate in Elections at any cost and in the same breath she says free and fair elections not possible.
All judges should be released, when asked repeatedly that why dont you demand the restoration of judges only their release, she says PPP is working for restoration of democracy not individual judges.
Until PPP doesnot boycott elections and demand restoration of judges, nothing is going to happen, take my word and do not expect anything good to happen in future. No hopes now.
IKs clear stance on most of things had put him altogether in a different level.
The bad moves by rest of the parties would futher raise his level.
So Big parties should be very very careful in thier moves.
As an example during NS arrival people very clearly asked for boycott.
To go against their wishes would be a big disaster for both BB & NS
Has everyone noticed all jiyalas disappear from here whenever BB makes a u-turn and holds press conferences to issue !diotic statements. They reappear after a day or so : ).
i still remember the day CJ was reinstated ,MUSH went to meet bb the same day (20th july),at that piont he knew that as a last resort he will have to impose martiallaw ….and after that he will need the support of BB otherwise he would succumb to the pressure of all political parties…USA was already inclining towards bb .. ….so BB grabbed the oppurtunity with both hands….
THEY knew that the NRO will be chanllenged at SC ..but he will sack the judges any way so nothing to worry about…after all this assurance BB came back…and the assurance not only ends here …the elections will also be rigged in favour of BB…
People Of Pakistan: Open your eyes and ears, start using your own brain and conscience to understand the situation. Stop continue being a herd of animals and be led by the Greedy Rat Bastards i.e Mullas, Army and Corrupt Politicians. This is your nation as much as theirs. Take control of it. Protect it for yourself and for your future generations. If you don’t use your own brains, they will continue to incite you against this enemy, that enemy, this Kaffir and that kaffir. Be vigilent. You have given too much power to Army and Clergy. They ask you to sacrifice and you should. But, while you sacrifice, they are raping Pakistan. All these Mullas who are inciting you for JIHAD, how many of them have sent their sons or daughters for Jihad. Have the guts to question and challange for debating on issues. Refrain from violence but have the courage to protest and question these leaders, the corruption and abuse of power.
Don’t feel depressed. Situation will get worse but eventually your sacrifice will bear fruits. There is no such thing as “Islam Khatre Main Hai”. A great philosophy or heavenly message has its own strength.
The real danger to Islam is from the Islamic Clergy and real dangerto pakistan is from its own police/military brutality.
Whenever you see a policeman, military person, Clergy member or govt. official, in a civil but firm way, let them know as to what a disgusting role they are playing. Let them know that they are pary in this brutallity, directly or indirectly. But do not get into shouting match with them. Bycot their functions. Refuse ther invitations. Slowly but surely, they will get the message.
I SINCERELY WISH THAT EVERY DICTATORS CHILDREN INCLUDING AYUB KHAN, ZIA AND MUSHARAF’S CHILDREN SUFFER ATLEAST AS MUCH AS THE NATION IS SUFFERING TODAY BECAUSE OF THEIR ACTS
I WISH TO CONDEMN THE BAIGARTH PEOPLE OF THESE CONSTITUENCIES WHO ELECT THESE LOW LIFE’S BY CHOICE
this is the most depressing time of my life ……….when i saw the little girl crying for her brother….. it made me cry too ……..she was just like my sister………..is that what we do to our people…..we as a nation should die in shame ………..wake up Pakistanis……..
@faisal
I agree with you. This is absolutely disgusting.
DEMONSTRATION Against the Breaches of Human Rights in Pakistan
Restore the Judiciary!
Restore Democracy!
Release all political prisoners !
Time & Date: Saturday, 1st December at 1pm
Venue: Opposite Downing Street
Organised by: Doctors Against Breaches of Human Rights in Pakistan (supported by Campaign Against Martial Law in Pakistan & Free Pakistan movements)
Tel. 07786394216 & 07817773438
All welcome
Documentary starts with Allah-o-Akbar. But I am not impressed.
We all know that God is great but Muslims are very mean and low grade. If we don’t stand up now, I would be happy if someone else destroys us like Iraq.
I feel very angry.
I don’t know why these rulers forget one day they have to die as well.
What can one say? Pray for our country. Pray for Punjab. Pray for Baluchistan. Pray for NWFP. Pray for Northen Area. Pray for Sindh. Pray for Kashimir.
faisal, People of this CONSTITUENCIES do not elect them it is ISI which get them elected.
i completly agree with all of you guys and especially with faisal you spoke the my heart. i just pray to GOD ALMIGHTY to give this zalil musharaf the most miserable death. HOW COULD THEY DO THIS TO OUR OWN PEOPLE……and may ALLAH GIVE THE COURAGE AND TOLARENCE TO THE FAMILIES OF THOSE PERSONS. WE CAN JUST PRAY FOR THEM….SALAM.
I agree with shahid these people are from intelligence agencies who are doing all this.Pakistan army and intelligence agencies are been paid from USA to do all this shit…All i can say is that i feel very ashamed after watching this clip that we havnt done anything significant to help these people…:(
This video is totally based on false. An emotional game play. Very nice. Woow I can’t believe how people are playing in hand of other. If this good Pakistan agencies are i wonder how the heck people find out where these people are kept. When they were picked up. Who can give me information that these people who are missing are not gone away on their own to to do terrorism.
Its just a game that start with one statement. ” Pakistan’s Agency should be dismantle.”
Let suppose even if they are picked up before they do a crime that is the only thing one can do. Since there would be no need to arrest a head of a suicide bomber.
Understand the reality what is going on.
I need not say any further.
@Ali khan
please enlighten us about the hidden agenda then; the alternative doctrine. It would be interesting to read that from u.
@ali khan
nice speech but i strongly disagree with ya
this is based on true stories, so many people are missing since this government made a crackdown on so called terrorism…catching people and handing over them to U.S.
anyways, THIS POLICE has to be given some kind of training of how the F*** to treat people…..THIS POLICE IS SO DAMN RUTHLESS!
AND then this guy WASI zafar with his english shi*.
OMG no wonder why Pakistan as a country suffering so much embrassment. i am still shocked and almost crying;
It is so sad to see Muslims doing this … dont they fear Allah, dont they read Quran,
they are commiting sin which can not be forgiven.
I is sad to see Muslims doing the very thing that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) strongly forbidden us to do.
Mr Ali Khan,
you really need to open your eyes and stop lying to yourself. Situations like the ones showed in the video are EXACTLY what create hatred in the hearts of people who later go ahead and do suicide bombings. If there were no disapperances and Pakistan was a fair land where everyone is really free, there would be no suicide bombings. There is ABSOLUTELY no proof that the people arrested had any connection whatsoever with terrorism. USA is simply paying Pakistan to deliver them supposed terrorists. Any person is chosen without any reason. When your own father, son or brother disappears, we’ll see whether you keep on saying the same thing.
May Allah guide you to the truth.
Umm Ibrahim
(a canadian convert to Islam)
I am crying.
I dont have any word left.
This is too much!!
IN SAB ARMY GENERALS KO IS AURAT KI BAD DUUA LAGEGE AMEEN SAB MAREINGE AUR KISE KA NAM O NISHAN BHI NAHIN RAHEGA AMEEEN
Darbar-e watan main jab ik din sab janay walay jaein ge
Kuch apni saza ko pohanchein ge, kuch apni jaza le jaein ge
Aey khak nasheenon uth baitho, woh waqt kareeb aa pohancha hai
Jab taj uch’halay jaein ge, jab takht giraey jaein ge
Ab toot girein gi zanjeerein, ab zindan’on ki khair nahin
Jo darya jhoom k utha hai, tinkon se na ta’llay jaein ge
Kat’tay bhi chalo, barhtay bhi chalo: bazoo bhi bohat hain, sar bhi bohat
Chaltay bhi chalo, k ab d’air’ay manzil pe hi da’lay jaeinge
Aey zulm k maro, lab kholo, chup rehnay walon chup kab tak?
Kuch hash’r to’ un se uthay ga, kuch do’or to’ na’lay jaein ge
@ GHAAZI
Ameen
@ Ali Khan
We should all pray that these ‘GOOD things’ happen to you and your loved ones.
Dont be angry, if these are baseless, you will be happy and those who will be crying for you will be liars!!
Ali, suppose government officials abducts you or your father or any of your relatives because they believe that they are terrorist. How would you feel about it?
Suppose out of 100 people who are missing, 20 people are innocent.
Do you think it is right ?
Think that those 20 people are kept in Jail, beaten up, sexually harassed, mentally tortured and no one is answerable and no one can help them. Try to put yourself in this situation. Have ever been to a jail, or even spent a single night behind bars, and used dirty washrooms, etc. Could you imagine if you are put in these circumstances how it may affect your entire life (mentally)? Along with the lives of your parents, your wife, children , etc.
Therefore we need constitution. We need human rights, right to contest in court if alleged of a crime.
I think I made my point.
just to stay in power, these genarals play such a ruthless game with the help of sme dispicable politicians. Army will pay dearly, it already is. the ISI is getting. Why would some people lift arms and ram into someone with explosives tied around. The army deserves the pounding. plz Watch the video and read the message of Mr. jinnah at the end.
This is all propaganda.Its good that all these terrorist are locked up.
I do not lose my nerves very easily but I tell you all … watching this video made me cry.
I CANNOT believe this A**H**E MUSH has CROSSED SO MANY LINES to PLEASE BUSH.
Innocent people who have nothing to do with terrorism MUST NOT BE TREATED like this.
This is very sad.
First of all we can only pray for poor peoples.The man(ch Iftiqar) who can give them justice he is out of his seat.
In the last mr khan,(i don`t wana use ALI name to call u because i have too much respect for that name)i don`t know how can u defend those people who did this crime,are u a normal person?I know this forum is for every one but please don`t come here with your baseless thoughts.
We already upset after watching this kind of terrorism by our police.And u come with your stupid ideas how can u say that this is false,o mr put yourself or your family member on their place & ask what happen.
This should be an opener for those who are still seduced by Musharaff’s charming promises. I cannot see intelligence agencies pursuing kidnapping without the blessing of their highers.
@Ali Khan, dont you see what is going on? dont you reason why this is happening? Doesn’t it make you wonder? Amnesty International is a human right watch, and there are other credible citations in this documentary.
Many of us are protesting against kidnappings, but we have not suggested dismantle the agencies. How did you link both together?
@ z
plz remember, the only ones supporting the army are the children of the top brass of the army and those who are getting monetary benefits from the army.everyone knows how corrupt is the army.
Agencies do not have any one. They have gone for Jihad, that is why they are missing (Musharraf)
Supreme Court ordered agencies to release the people they had. (Musharraf on 3rd November).
BB & NS have no future in Pakistan. They will not be allowed to return (Mush)
I will remove uniform in 2004 (Mush in 2001).
I never lie. I am very straightforward (Mush on many occasions)
God’s curse is upon liars (Quran)
A liar has a week memory (Hadith)
Today I feel so ashamed of myself to call myself a Muslim and a Pakistani. Is this the way we treat our respectful sisters by bringing them on the streets and beating them???
We all belong to a Muslim society and we still just watch our sisters being oppressed like this??? Don’t you all think we should have been there with our sisters and protest with them when they needed us????
If we don’t guard the honour and dignity of our sisters then who will???? I wish if Generals like Salah ud din Ayubi or Muhammad Bin Qasim were alive they would have either crushed the oppressor or would have died fighting. I wish I can do something for the families of missing persons other than just writing here…..
Aye Khuda hamain hidaiyyat farma (Ameen)
@ALL those who care,
Don’t tell me you guys can’t do anythig please.
WE can do as much as POSSIBLE. Get smart.
Rather than crying,made those reponsible cry for the crimes they are committing just to stay in power.
I don’t know how many times have I already proposed but I consider this my responsibilty to APPEAL TO ALL AGAIN
1. Boycot military socially and MORE IMPORTANTLY ECONOMICALLY.
Why do you think the military take-over in the first place?
Ans: TO ENSURE their non-PROFESSION related busineses and perks are intact.
WHere in the world has a military running banks, factories, residential schemes,toll plazas, construction conglomerates, corporate farms and a budget without discussion?
ALL THESE ARE ILLEGAL and MUST be BOYCOTED. THIS is what everyone of us can do. This is what we MUST DO. STRIKE WHERE IT MATTERS. HIT the POCKETS OF GENERALS HARD.
@Shah Saud Sahibzada
Its not just one istitution, visit the remote areas of all the provinces, all the metro cities, you will find private torture cells & jails.
Infact theres a Kabza Group Mafia who get togethere(deals) whenever one of them is in the danger.
I have the same feeling for all these Kabza Groups who diverts public attention from an independent judiciary.
This was one of the reasons that Mush tried to sack “my man CJP” because he had asked the forbidden question for the common masses. These intelligence agencies are used only to terrorize their own citizens. How many times do we hear that the police was able to apprehend the culprit or was able to deny a robbery? very rarely. And how often we hear that police tortured the civil society in one form or the other? almost every day. How often have we heard that the intelligent agencies were able to locate a suiside bommer? never but they know precisely how many entered a city. These agencies need to be reigned as they have been operating way out of their domains for too long.
Great thing is that due to Musharraf’s crimes and stupidity Pakistan is heading towards, no it is under going, a real revolution.
Beware Benazir and Nawaz Sharif, the age of 10% and Daewoo are over.
This vedio makes usa cry.
It makes me sad.
Oh Allah help these innocent people
Very educating- and people with any sort of justice in their hearts would do well to ask questions.
this documentry is lesson & also turning point to think about our so called leaders and brutal army. Please i request infront of u try to choose honest people. Try to discourage our basterd police every where because they are not halali.
i request to pkpolitics that they should expose these sort of problem to make people aware.
i request u to pray for this Great Lady who is strugling for her husband.
The guy getting arrested in the video is just 16 years old, just imagine anyone of us if u dont see any one of your parent for 2 whole years and you dont even know whether he is alive or dead???? (I hope Mr. Masood is fine INSHALA)
Tommorow, Kiyani will take over Musharaf He was the Head of ISI when all these persons got missing so one b**tard goes another comes………
@Ali Khan
I know you will laugh but on the day of judgement accused will be punished. Victims’ hands will be on these rascles necks. There will be a list of those who committed these crimes, who supported these crimes and who tried to justify these crimes.
the onus is upon the pakistanis abroad to express solidarity with our brothers in pakistan. people in well placed positions should organize talks, political debates to mount pressure. while monster musharraf is immune to any pressure we can still do our bit. we should also make dua…ay Allah hamein zalim kay zulm say bacha.ameen
Nice emotional black mail… this is y media was banned in pak.
who ever made this video i would like to ask u if one of these missing persons today pulled up in a car next to you and blows himself up killing ur loved ones, who will be responsible?
the truth is there are stupid people out there who are brain washed by some evil people into doing stuff like this.
now look at the stupid comment by Zenith. acc to him every one should take up arms start fighting with govt than once the govt is gone start fighting each other kill every single opponent. and that will be the end of the strongest muslim state ever, who will win than? hasnt iraq taught you any thing…
so my advise is i know things are not perfect but i consider Mushrraf still better than any other Money hungry, lying SOb politician. give him a chance he is already taking of his uniform why do u think he would ever want to do that if he wanted to be in power always.. he can continue his emergency and lock up or hang all the politicians since they are all in pak now.
@all
what can i say except this kay ” JAISEY LOG HOTEY HAIN WAISEY HE HUKMARAN HOTEY HAIN”. WE ARE ALL CRIMINAL SOMETIMES I THINK WE ARE NOT DOING WHAT WE SUPPOSED TO DO, THAT IS TO FOLLOW THE LIFE OF OUR NABI MUHAMMAD SAL LALLAH OH ALEYHE WASALAM.
WE ALL SHOULD TRY TO CHANGE OURSELVES THAN CHANGE WILL COME INSHALLAH. SALEEM PA USA
The video speaks for itself and it merely touches the surface.
I hope this explains that those people who have been part of the Musharraf gang are hired guns of the west and they have subjected the people of Pakistan but esp: the people of the Frontier to un mentionable abuses.
As yet there are people in Pakistan who actually have nice things to say about Musharraf.
What we must do is to make sure everyone sees this video- so send the link to everyone you know everywhere.
I admire admin for putting this video up for us. I also admire those who produced this documentary.
It is clear from this that the real terrorists in the country are the Police and agencies.
@Sal
I dont know what is your nationality, what is your religion but what you have said can be said only by one who hasnt got human feelings, you are sounding satanic, you are sounding criminal, you are sounding traitor and above all you are sounding wasi zafar.
Hello,
I have to agree this is an important problem we have to take into account. It is as serious as any other case. Every individual disappearing is a serious problem in our country.
My question, then, is where is the proof that the state has funded these kidnappings. An individual in say Amnesty International is no authority on facts and figures as such.
Also note how there are many cuttings during interviews, which for all we know, are important details left out.
I agree that this is really a serious problem. I also agree that this is the one of the most inhumane thing I’ve ever seen.
I hope someone will answer what I said, without getting all emotional and suddenly passionate, putting forth facts.
Thank you.
OK Sal. For a moment, let us agree with your rationale that any one of these “people” can pull up next to your car and kill your loved ones.
Since you are sure of this, then wouldn’t the next logical step be for the govt to file terrorism charges against these “criminals”,produce the evidence in court and put them away for life ? Sounds like very simple way to me to take care of a serious problem. Don’t you agree ?
Now tell us why do you think they are missing ?
@abnormal
i just showed you the other side of the picture.
and good luck with NS or BB winning the election or which ever blood sucking “haramkhor” you support. how easy it is for them to motivate morons like you into giving them votes…
@ Zarak Khan
I was just going to say this….you are 110% right
Masood family should have gotten UK or EU citizenship first then no body in pakistan would have dare touch them.
Pakistani army has killed more pakistanis than Indian army.
Our own ISI has kidnapped, tortured, sold more pakistanis than Indian RAW.
Pakistani Army has created political instability more often than indian army.
Pakistani army has invaded pakistani civilians more often than Indian army.
Pakistani army is our enemy and not Indian army.
We need democracy and army should be kicked out of all businesses.
I dont understand the Police men. who do these things. what do they get from it.
It is important that we realise who our enemy is…..
Pakistani army has killed more pakistanis than Indian army.
Our own ISI has kidnapped, tortured, sold more pakistanis than Indian RAW.
Pakistani Army has created political instability more often than indian army.
Pakistani army has invaded pakistani civilians more often than Indian army.
Pakistani army is our enemy and not Indian army.
We need democracy and army should be kicked out of all businesses.
Extremely shameful.
The role of ISI in Pakistan is extremely brutal. What happened in Laten America during 80’s is happeneing in Pakistan since 60’s.
During Ayub days it was Leftests who suffered.
During Yahya – freedom seekers suffered
During Zia – PPP and its leadership and Leftests suffered
Islamists were part of those torture campaigns
Now it is there turn.
This guy Hamid Gul deserves to be killed 1000 times. He is one of the master minds of torture cells and terrorism of ISI. These people are criminals.
Shame Pak Fauj, Shame Punjab Police.
@zarak khan
i agree wiht u but i am afraid in pak that would not have been possible.
judiciary was corrupt and was due to political intrests confronting the govt. all those Chief Justice supporters i ask u where was this hero of urs CJ before all this confrontation with Musharraf i think he has been the CJ for a while y didnt he take all these Suo Moto’s earlier? y now..
so now u tell me? you think a genuine brain “washed person” would have been sentenced or kept away from innocent ppl on the road.. i doubt that!
while some cases of missing people may be valid and indeed, in some cases the agencies must have crossed the line, one must really ask the question, why all this propaganda against Pakistan as a state now ? How is it that such a well made documentary is produced now ? where were all these bleeding hearts since 911 ? The answer is clear. The utility of musharrafs regime is now at its lowest. So now we are seeing a well coordinated attack on the regime by the media, ngo, and so called impartial judiciary and their friends in political circles. Its a good strategy and a lot of educated and patriotic pakistanis are falling into the trap but unless there is widespread protests, the regime will survive.
*********************************
My heart is weeping.
- I could not manage to watch the complete report. It is height of ZULM and brutality.
* May ALLAH’s Azaab come to Mush as well as on those who are backing him including politicians and law enforcement agencies.
* May peace and happiness soon be back to all such families who are facing a real tragic situation. (AMEEN)
Our country is worse than Nazi Germany.
Germany had only one hitler whereas we have a series of Hitlers.
Our ISI is worse than GESTAPO.
Gestapo killed non germans and ISI kills all.
Hitler’s police also kidnapped thousands of civilians on suspicion of being communist and tortured to death. Here Pakistani secret agencies have captured thousands of our brothers (Many of whom are innocents). Tortured and killed and people like tasnim aslam have the audacity to speak barefaced lies.
These people are real kaffirs. All people must get rid of these liers through democratic means.
Peaceful protests must be used to demonstrate. Civil society should come out on streets and protest. In the place of small group of protesters if 100000 people would have gathered then police could not have kidnapped the 16 year old child.
Shame on ISI.
Shame on Pakistani Army. (Which is fit to wear bangles).
Shame on pakistani awaam for not protesting.
What an emotional speech by Roedad Khan.
Strangely he was very close to Zia nd was his interior and cabinat secretary. He was very close to GI Khan and signed death warrants of Bhutto.
Now he is democrat like Hameed gul.
Is thi a change of heart or these criminals have some new agenda?
@Ali Khan
Yes Pakistaniagencies must be dismntle or compltey overhauled.ISI has become SAWAK of Shh of Iran. They are breeded bearded animals. Nation hate them.
What ever……..
I donot care who is saying what…
This zulum must stop.
ISI cannot keep people without court’s permission.
If someone is terrorist then coursts must punish him else he should be set free.
Just because some officier in ISI is angry on some vegetable seller, the poor fellow cannot be kidnapped and put in prison for torture without court case.
How can one call it a fabrication when even Mush has admitted he has been selling Pakistanis for $5000 a pop? The last people I personally heard justifying it was a PMLQ MPA whom I threw out of my house. I have personally met one of these victims but he has been unable to talk about the experience so far. He is a lawyer who was picked up on the “evidence” that one terror-suspect had called his number. The intelligence people even admitted he had not talked to that suspect but were interested to know how the guy got a hold of the lawyers number. This guy said Hey, I am a lawyer and a lot of criminals have my number. They took him anyways and he just disappeared for some 2 years. Then one day out of the blue he showed up at home saying they drugged him and put him in a rickshaw.
Remember, even after Mush is gone, the system stays. War on Terror will go on…
Let’s just take the example of Police: Do you think anyone is going to fire all those “cops” recruited by Chaudhries? The whole police force needs to be disbanded. And remember, one of Mush’s excuse for the PCO and firing of judges WAS that these very cops in ISI agents were loosing morale as they were being asked come before the court.
About police, let me give you a few examples that I know are facts. I do know these policemen pay as much as Rs.500,000 as recruitment fee. How do you think they intend to make it up? There salary can’t be even close to Rs.10,000 (does anyone know what it is?) Second, in my hometown tehsil, each police station has to pay the DSP Rs.100,000 a month. There are 35 police stations so that makes his take Rs.3.5 million a month plus what bakhshish he gets directly. The SP I know personally was thrown out from police force for corruption in a very public case by the Chief Minister who claimed he had him on tape with an underworld figure. But guess what? One month later that underworld figure is arrested and surprise(!) killed in jail. A few weeks after that the same CM reinstates him and now he has been promoted. This person has recently bought a Mercedes SL500, a new house in Defence, spending crores on interrior decorations alone. He also has bought more than 10 plots here and I don’t know how many more that I don’t know of. He is also buying up agricultural land like crazy and I don’t have a clue how much he has but has put the word out that anyone selling land in the area to please come to him for he will buy it.
And this is just one of the more honest police officers
Think what a General can do.
In Indian state of uttar prades the police recruitment was defective and many criminals were selected. They had given bribes.
The next govt has kicked out all of these. More than 17000 policemen were dismissed in 3 months.
If India can do it then why can we not?
I say
Dismantle ISI.
Dismantle Police.
Make law than no Army men can ever think of coup.
Make army chief a subordinate to airforce or navy chief who in turn shoud report to some committee of bureaucrats.
Make police under the control of judiciary.
Take away all business from army.
Make new police and new secret service with one aim: to get intelligence on enemy countries.
Make it mandatory that to arrest some one a warant signed by a majistrate is needed and the arrested person should be produced before the court in 24 hrs.
Shame on Army, Police, HIJRAY.
Aurtoon aur Bachoon ko martay hein.
India kay aagay hath joortay hein.
I am ashamed to be a Pakistani.
Musharraf will have a horrible ending.
This is why we must support IK to stop this.
Dismantle all the agencies and stop the atrocities against people of Pakistan.
The CJ must be restored so that he can release all the people against whom there is no case.
Please read “cops in ISI” as “cops & ISI” in my previous post…
No need to be ashamed Ali.
Actually we are still slaves.
Earlier British ruled us directly and now they rule us through the pakistani army and ISI.
We should do peacefully struggle for freedom.
Look at India they are developing so fast because they are free.
We should follow the example of Gandhi and Nelson Mandela and protest peacefully.
First we should bycott all products of Fauji faundation.
We should should start social bycott of all army men.
A nation of 160 million cannot be slaves for half a million faujis.
We should defeat the corrupt, shameless, oppressive pakistani army peacefully.
I think all those who support police/agency brutality should be ashamed of themselves.
Yesterday I met some guys who support MQM. They were saying that when MQM guys were being mistreated, no body protested.
I drew their attention to police brutality and suggested that we make a pressure group and bring these police guys to justice. I mentioned recent examples where we have video and pictorial proofs.
These MQM supporters started telling me that the police is good and their experience says that police only mistreats bad people. They ‘opened’ my eyes by telling me the ‘facts’ that police did not mistreat Imran’s sisters and that its the other way round. They also told me that it was the lawyers who were bad, not the police. I told these MQM supporters that I am surprised that police in pakistan was so good and no one told me.
If we have intellectual dishonesty, we cannot do anything. I want to ask MQM supporters why they keep telling us about police brutality and now they are not only quiet but supporting that as well.
For MQM supporters, few verses from a German poet who was arrested in the end:
When Hitler went after Socialists, I kept quiet; because I was not a Socialist.
When Hitler went after Trade Unions, I kept quiet; because I did not belong to a trade union.
When Hitler went after Jews, I kept quiet, because I was not a Jew.
When Hitler came after me, I looked around, But there was no one left to protest for me.
For MQM supporters, few verses from a German poet who was arrested in the end:
When Hitler went after Socialists, I kept quiet; because I was not a Socialist.
When Hitler went after Trade Unions, I kept quiet; because I did not belong to a trade union.
When Hitler went after Jews, I kept quiet, because I was not a Jew.
When Hitler came after me, I looked around, But there was no one left to protest for me.
I think all those who support police/agency brutality should be ashamed of themselves.
Yesterday I met some guys who support MQM. They were saying that when MQM guys were being mistreated, no body protested.
I drew their attention to police brutality and suggested that we make a pressure group and bring these police guys to justice. I mentioned recent examples where we have video and pictorial proofs.
These MQM supporters started telling me that the police is good and their experience says that police only mistreats bad people. They ‘opened’ my eyes by telling me the ‘facts’ that police did not mistreat Imran’s sisters and that its the other way round. They also told me that it was the lawyers who were bad, not the police. I told these MQM supporters that I am surprised that police in pakistan was so good and no one told me.
If we have intellectual dishonesty, we cannot do anything. I want to ask MQM supporters why they keep telling us about police brutality and now they are not only quiet but supporting that as well. Just because their party is in power.
Well, I don’t need to Ans all of you. And justify my thought and point of view to any one since like all of you i have the liberty to have thought and express. Let me also PROMISE here that i shall not pray for any of you to go to hell and to die, and also that i shall not Distrust your ideas and thoughts, since Allah Talah Knows the BEST.
But let me also Pray to all of us this; that what we are looking at here only a side of picture plus one sides interest.
The thing is that we are asking some one let us speak but we don’t give him the right to do so, and when he tells us some thing we just say shut up you are lying. And they we do this most oftenest is by closing on our eyes what we don’t want to see.
You all love Ali Ahmed Kurd. Why? Let me guess that when he was standing in front of Supreme Court and said on the 20th that This supreme court is now the free, and is the this CJ is now above every govt pressure and what not. But why are we forgetting the day when after that decision on rejecting the petition against president by Bench in Qazi Hussain ahmed and Imran Khan Case he said in front of the very supreme court and judges that this decision “came from presidency and GHQ these Judges are sold” (it is a quote from his speech). And what did Munir Malik said He will burn hell court down.
There are list of argument that i have but i hope you get my msg.
Let me add this here, world is not as simple as is seams. I wish that we the people of Pakistan understood the importance of trust. And not to distrust some ones intentions just because you don’t believe it.
A Little example I would like you to see the first three videos of the following link. And again let me add Zahid Hamid is very independent analyst. My thoughts are not ONLY BASED ON this it is just clue i wish i could add some more stuff here but i hope we all would know where we stand.
http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user=marmaid9
I am waiting for all of your comments. But hope we would be more logical this time.
Wsalaam
Ali Khan
@ Ali Ahmad
Thanks for giving reference to PTV rubbish. We don’t need that link.
I can only pray that same thing happen to all those who support such actions.
To MQM brothers:
If you be quiet and support brutality now, who will speak for your rights when the same agencies start another operation.
It is very dangerous to support dictators, especially when they are lame duck. Mush will run to Turkey and the unnecessary anger will be directed towards other sections of society.
Let us unite now. It is never too late.
As you see only 10% or 20% of Pakistani people may be offereing 5 times prayer regularly. So Pakistani people failed to implements the basics of ISLAM in pakistan.
Therefore we have such rulers ruling us.
@ ali
people is saudia are made to pray 5 times y do they have a dictator ruling them
@Ali Khan,
For sixty years Pak fouj has been scaring people of Pakistan that India is about to get them. But army itself was in the process of looting the country. Now you want to scare us again that Swat/ FATA problem is a US conspiracy?
Good luck this time. FATA and Swat people are at the same stage where Bengalis were 35 years ago. Army was the culprit then and Army is the wrongdoer now. This time we are not emotionally attcached to your land of the priviliged.
@Sal
General Musharraf took a wrong turn on March 9th, 2007. I simply ignored it. Did not even follow Pakistani politics and news. But afterward, he grossly mis-stepped one after another. I was astonished, how a sensible person and a popular leader could make series of illogical decisions.
Today, I got my answer; definitely, he got the badd’dua (curse) of this woman Amana Masood in this video, her children and many others. People like you may not believe in it but there is a higher Deity. He is has His ways of conducting justice.
On the pragmatic note, I would not be surprised if this boy without shalwar would be driving a suicide car bomb and later on police claiming that they were right in kidnapping his father.
Hunger can be felt only by hungry! How can General Musharaf and his poodels feel and share the sorrow and agony of these people? After seeing this eye opening documentary, I just didn’t cry, but my heart and soul is is helplessly and hopelessly crying. After seeing such hedious and henious incidents, no Pakistani has right to live in Pakistan. My stomach is full of disgust for the relentless brutalities unleashed on the poor and innocent. Being helpless, I just raise my hands and pray to God that all missing individuals meet their beloved families before a blink of an eye.
Just saw Ik’s conference on geo. He tore his nomination papers in front o camera and said that he will nt contest in these electons. As much as i respect, I think he has shown political immaturity. Now he asked BB and NSto do the same. I think pml-Q and ppp will win the game at the end that is if ppp contests these elections, which iam pretty sure they will.
Illegal detentions are never acceptable. But for the time being, just think about it. If someone has been involved in the terrorism, what would you do? take him to the court? try him? how long? we know our courts. Realistically, it takes years to conclude a case. to grant bail is real easy. what if you release a real terrorist bailing him? i am not taking sides, just asking you what is the guaranty that such people will live safe?what is an alternate to avoid suicide attacks by stupid terrorists? what about the death of millions of innocent people in such attacks? I say being religious is not a crime, but even knowing a terrorist and not pointing out to law enforcing agencies is a Bid crime. Is it better to keep 400 people in jails or bailing out a bunch of terrorists who eill kill millions of innocent people? I need your opinion.
@Sal
I am very sorry bro! your disease is incurable. You can criticize NS, BB etc, I dont mind but you did not even bother to say anything of sympathy for that young boy and that girl.
Leave it who is wrong or right, just tell me what would you have done if your kids were beaten by police like that ?
http://www.express.com.pk/epaper/index.aspx?Issue=NP_LHE&Page=Editorial_PAGE&Date=20071127&Pageno=12&View=1%20id=
A timely warning to BB & NS by Javed Chaudhry. worth reading
Today’s Muslim has lost his character. I am sure Musharraf didn’t ask those policemen to take that poor kid’s pant out. It is so shameful. How can a muslim do that to anyone, forget about doing that to another Muslim? It is not a problem of just Musharraf, the army and the intelligence agencies. It is a problem with our nation. We are far away from our deen.
May Allah give us hidayah
@Umar
I agree with you. How come any of us can do this sort of things if we have even a little WILL to follow the teachings of our religion.
– That is the grace of judiciary if it is inplace. But unfortunately we could have seen only few sparks of that real enlightenment and then that source of hope was pushed behind the bars. Think if we are having free judiciary even this act of brutality can be taken to court and such a system can ensure a very peaceful society in short time.
@Shawn
No it is not better to keep innocent 400 people in jail.
No one is saying let terrorists go. Prosecute them but under the LAW. Or are you saying your laws are no good? If so, then FIX them. Or are you saying you have no good evidence against those “terrorists”. Then are they terrorists just because you think they are? By the same reasoning, most westerners this all Muslims are terrorists. Should we incarcerate them all and torture them till they confess??
@shawn
And by the way, no so-called terrorist or even a terrorist organization has come close to kill millions of people. Sure millions have been killed but by people we reward, honor, sing songs in their praise, and give them Nobel Peace Prize. Take Bush, Clinton, GW, Harry Truman, Sharon, Hitler, Lenin, and the biggest murderer of all times: Henry Kissinger (know of a recent genocide? Be sure Henry had a hand in it)… WHat did Osama do? maybe killed ~2500.
So who should I be scard of?
@shawn
Since my last comment is awaiting moderation, let me ask you: Name one terr*orist who has killed “millions”.
“Honorable” people do that. Those guilty of above have names like B*sh, Truman, GW, and the biggest murd*r*r of all times: Henry K*ssinger (know of a recent genocide? Be sure Henry had a hand in it)
These guys don’t get thrown in prison. They get Nobel Peace Prizes…
@nota
All muslims are definitely not terrorists but most terrorists are muslims.
@ Sal/ Nota
I agree with both of you 100%. but you still didnt answer my question. are you saying its better to kill millions of innocent people?
i agree that most of the times there is no evidence against those who are detained, but do u think our intelligence is inefficient? It is one of the best in the world. believe me. they are inefficient in a way that they fail to collect concrete evidence against them and act mostly on the intelligence force who should not be named in the court to maintain secrecy . our law is faulty, and thus they are kept illegal. But some of them must have been arrested for a reason. We have to protect our nation from serious attacks. we have to prevent our country from being given bad name. I have few suggestions:
1. Keep our borders strict. Allow no illegal immigrations.
2. Only highly experienced law enforcement personnel should be employed at borders.
3. Deport all the illegal immigrants
4. Army should not be allowed to interfere in politics and concentrate on their job.
5. Bring new politicians like IK and of lawyers (who are educated)like Aitzaz Ahsan, Malik, Kurd, journalists,and social activists.
6. I agree to extent that those missing persons should atleast be allowed to see their families.
This is absolutely wrong concept that West thinks all muslims are terrorists. Tell me why lawyers and civilians in US and Europe marched against atrocities being committed agains lawyers and journalists in Pakistan?
There are millions of muslims working in every walk of life in US and other parts of the west. None of them is arrested. Only those were arrested who were pointed by Pakistani agencies.
Was that 16 year boy released???? I feel like my heart will explode. I am ashamed of being living here. May Allah give these people Hidaya and mayy they burn these so called leaders burn in the worst part of hell.
One should also go through the article of Qazi Hussain regarding background of IJT etc:
————————————-
http://www.express.com.pk/epaper/index.aspx?Issue=NP_LHE&Page=Editorial_PAGE&Date=20071127&Pageno=12&View=1%20id=
Do you know?
Afghanistan was first to oppose creation of Pakistan.
Iraq was more inclined to India and it favoured India in Indo_pakistan war.
Afghani immigrants to pakistan sold klashinkovs to pakistani people, sold Herion to pakistanis, bringing drug culture and terrorism. Did you ever hear of heroin and use of klashinkov in seventees?
These arms are still being used in ethnic and secterian violence in pakistan against pakistani muslims by the muslims. They have smuggled alcohol, and prostitutes here.
Why it is always duty of pakistani to support other muslim countries in their fight?
where were they when India attacked pakistan?
Instead of crying for and helping them we should help our country. we should help our lawyers and journalists and civil societies to bring freedom to our coutry against a dictator. I read in newspapers that people from pakistan were supporting foriegners and giving them asylum. May I ask why?
@op
Lame
@shawn:
(and do watch the “Ludicrous Diversion” documentary – is available on YouTube/GoogleVideo)
1. Keep our borders strict. Allow no illegal immigrations.
If I am to believe US official story, rhen remember NONE of the 9/11 perpetrators were in US illegally. Same goes for 7/7 london
2. Only highly experienced law enforcement personnel should be employed at borders.
Still that would have not prevented the events mentioned in (1)
3. Deport all the illegal immigrants
Same meaningless non-solution as above 2 points.
4. Army should not be allowed to interfere in politics and concentrate on their job.
That’s all we ask for.
5. Bring new politicians like IK and of lawyers (who are educated)like Aitzaz Ahsan, Malik, Kurd, journalists,and social activists.
Can’t ask for more
6. I agree to extent that those missing persons should atleast be allowed to see their families.
At the very least!
“There are millions of muslims working in every walk of life in US and other parts of the west. None of them is arrested. ”
This is simply not true. Since 9/11 there hasn’t been a week when some paintball playing guys were not splashed on the evening news as “another terrorist cell busted.” And as long as you toe the “party line” you are OK. As long as they dont play paintball or take pictures of buildings and look at someone funny, they are OK. I could point you to a hundred examples but I am sure you can do the search yourself. Here is some help:
http://www.google.com.pk/search?q=terrorist+cell+busted&btnG=Search&hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial
and scroll through.
By the way, who has killed more people? Terrorists or your “statesmen”? You did not answer so I thought I’d ask again.
VERY VERY SAD TO SEE SUCH POLICE BRUTALITY.
ALSO LISTEN TO TWO DUM MINISTERS AND ONE STUPID F.O. LADY.
I HOPE REAL INDEPENDENT JUDICIARY RESTORES AND LEGAL CJ WILL CONTINUE HIS TERM.
ALL THOSE WHO ARE INVOLVED IN ANY BRUTALITY AGAINST INNOCENT PEOPLE MUST BE SEVERLY PUNISHED, SO OTHERS GET THE LESSON.
I WISH MUSH AND HIS LOVERS GET THE JUSTICE HERE IN THIS WORLD. (AMEEN)
@nota
i am not saying bush, mush, etc are my “statesmen”. I am just saying our first priority should be to bring stability to pakistan. i am not worried about other countries. Regarding arrests of muslims in western countries, they were arrested on suspicion and later released. i think they have right to arrest anyone who they suspect might have connections. 9/11 was not a joke.it is the biggest in the history. and unfortunately, the blame went to muslims. unfortunately some muslims praised it. thats sad. Islam is the religion of peace and we have to prove it by conduct. likewise we have also right to arrest those who do same to our country. how many people got killed in BB procession? How many suicide attacks/ bomb attacks occured in recent days? Do you think govt has no right to even investigate or do detentions for that purpose?
What if someone does that to your innocent family/friends?
Whom to blame??
Musharraf?
USA??
Pakistani awam?
Condition of muslims??
How can anyone be that brutal, how can these ppl sell their fellow country men to US.
What should we do??
Any plan of action??
Should we contact local congressman, and ask them raise voice against this injustice in Pakistan?
Shouldn’t we pray Qunoot e naazila??
Should each and everyone of us do the self-evaluation, and fix ourselves?
What should we do?????
This is just too much, I can’t imagine how much psychotic that little girl must be right now.And how many other brothers and sisters are oppressed by this zulm.
@shawn:
“What if someone does that to your innocent family/friends?”
Exactly. Now apply it to yourself. What if they suspect your brother/father/mother or sister of terrorism? And for taking pictures? And they disappear without you knowing where they are, what charges are against them? And after years of torture they say: You are innocent. Are you really comfortable with that?
I think it is d*sgusting to keep bringing up those 9/11 victims and compare it to more than a million killed in Iraq alone since then who had nothing to do with it. Are you suggesting they were all terrorists? And your killing hasn’t stopped. So please take this b*ll and sh*ve it. We need none of your morality.
@ shawn
u r a perfect example of what they want to make of all of us. you will give up all rights just to get a false sense of security. who knows if the husband of that woman really was involved in terrorism or not. where is he? what crime has he commited? what is the harm in telling the family about his location and charges? atleast give the man a fair trial. but I know you will not agree , not until they pick up someone from your family
You got me wrong actually. I am not saying detention of people that way is right, if you read my previous messages. I am also sorry the way police treated them. its shameful. i am not taking govt side.
Instead of crying and cursing, you could have come up with some better solution to this problem. You are saying ” lets arrest no one unless proved beyond all reasonable doubts” i would have agreed it it was a simple crime. Our intelligentia are no fools.why would they take mine or your family? thats the proof they havent picked up any of your family member since they know they are innocent beyond doubt. everybody has right to express his/her opinion.
know what? nota, thats our problem. they way you are reacting. you can not listen anything against your opinion. instead of giving a solution , you are cursing me. so what is the difference between you, bush and mush?
@shawn
I bet you ask yourself “Why do they h^te us?”
Well, see a PARTIAL list of victims of US Foreign Policy:
http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa06.html
(no, these numbers are not exaggerated, actually quite the opposite)
And please do read “American Empire for Dummies” by William Blum at http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=2517, that is if you can handle the truth.
Excerpt:
“The State Department recently held a conference on how to improve America’s image abroad in order to reduce the level of hatred; image is what they’re working on, not change of policies. But the policies scorecard reads as follows: From 1945 to the end of the century, the United States attempted to overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populist movements fighting against insufferable regimes. In the process, the US bombed about 25 countries, caused the end of life for several million people, and condemned many millions more to a life of agony and despair.
“If I were the president, I could stop terrorist attacks against the United States in a few days. Permanently. I would first apologize — very publicly and very sincerely — to all the widows and orphans, the tortured and impoverished, and all the many millions of other victims of American imperialism. Then I would announce that America’s global interventions have come to an end and inform Israel that it is no longer the 51st state of the union but — believe it or not — a foreign country. I would then reduce the military budget by at least 90% and use the savings to pay reparations to our victims and repair the damage from our bombings. There would be enough money. Do you know what one year’s military budget is equal to? One year. It’s equal to more than $20,000 per hour for every hour since Jesus Christ was born. That’s what I’d do on my first three days in the White House. On the fourth day, I’d be assassinated.”
@shawn
No it is not just “an” opinion of mine. I am also of an opinion the sun rises from the east and stubborn enough not to listen to anyone saying something different.
You cannot have a solution to a problem if you don’t even know what the problem really is. As far as a solution is concerned, well, I like Mr. Blum’s. Do you?
@ shawn
I am pretty sure you have family in the army to keep such naive and childish views about the ISI. an agency which is totallr free from law and regulation and is “awarded money” based on how many people it can hand over to the US and i quote mush “anyone who questions our commitment to the war on terrorism, should ask the CIA how much award money it has given us”
no one is cursing you.you are brain washed and need to open your eyes.
Indeed sad! May Allah have mercy on us all. But what I see from all the comments is a confused picture.
1. These extra-judicial ‘kidnappings’ may be true. I cannot say anything. I have no proof for either.
2. All I can guess is that some may be wrongfully detained. How many? Maybe 50% or maybe 99%. cannot say.
3. What I know is that agencies have been doing this since the beginning. Whether under military or civilian governments.
4. What I have read and seen, it is being myopic by mentioning President, CJP, Army, etc. I am sure neither one has ever checked with the agency’s operations !
5. It just seems that US wants (1) Access to Central Asian oil (2) Block off China and Russia to warm waters (3) stop Pak’s nuclear capability (4) get better hold of Muslim region around the gulf.
6. What better way than to capture NWFP, Baluchistan and Afganistan and destabilize/dismantle pakistan (god forbid).
7. All that with India and Israel both more than eager to help on this front.
8. Why articles on Pahtoonistan in newweek, and similar media campaigns against Pakistan?
9. I do not see ANYONE out there who can hold on for Pakistan. Nor BB not NS not anyone.
10. Whether we like it or not, it only a strong Army with the hold on nuclear capability that can prevent things.
11. What better way, apart from all out war, to paralyze the army? to turn people againmst the army?
Let’s make our decesions ourselves and ask Allah for guidance.
let me ask you a question.
How many people were standing there when boy’s trousers were removed? how many dared to put those on him? how many tried to save that woman? they were just watching them insulted right? is this our character and we are worried about iraq/ afghan? please dont worry about iraq/ arabs. If you have lived in some arab country/ iraq you would know how much they love pakistanis. they treat them like a sh*t.
how many muslims supported us against indian attacked us? you are worried about US govt hating muslims but look first to your muslims. better look first to your country. how our own police treat us?
Here’s a better link for those interested in reading “American Empire for Dummies” as it has the complete article on one page:
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/American_Empire_Dummies.html
In “War and Peace” , Leo Tolstoy showed that historians look at the war from 30,000 feet above, they look at the outcome of the war in terms of the actions of war leaders. However the course of war is decided not because of the actions of leaders instead it is decided based on the actions of hunderds of thousands of those human beings who are considered as fodder of the war.
In this war in Pakistan, I think the course will be decided by the people who are suffering , I am praying Amna Janjua and her companions along with thousands of lawyers, human right activists and civil society members do not loose heart and keep their struggle alive against all the odds. I know how much despair there will be for the relatives of missing people after the removal of CJ but let us keep this struggle alive , let us not accept what is happening, we need to keep going, these are testing times….
One more for you shawn:
“Is the United States Against Terrorism?
Are we now to believe that the American Empire is against terrorism? What does one call a man who blows up an airplane killing 73 civilians for political reasons; who attempts assassinations against several diplomats; who fires cannons at ships docked in American ports; who places bombs in numerous commercial and diplomatic buildings in the US and abroad? Dozens of such acts. His name is Orlando Bosch, he’s Cuban and he lives in Miami, unmolested by the authorities. The city of Miami once declared a day in his honor-Dr. Orlando Bosch Day. He was freed from prison in Venezuela in 1988, where he had been held for the airplane bombing, partly because of pressure from the American ambassador at the time, Otto Reich, who in 2002 was appointed to a high position in the State Department by President Bush.”
Excerpt from “The American Empire: 1992 to present” from the book “Killing Hope” by William Blum
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/American_Empire_KH2004.html
O’Allah save me, my family and all friends and their families from all types of miseries or even tests. We are not so strong believer even to think of them. Please give us peace and keep us free from all the miseries inside and outside the country.
I suspect villain has normally a very long life and has full authority to make all his tortures and vicious plans come true. But this makes me think, if a person can think of himself so authoritative, so strong, why shouldn’t we believe that the Creator ought to be the Most Authoritative. If we try to move in the right direction now, He will not leave us alone. Let us all join hands and strenghten the pillars of the society by supporting them physically, morally and financially. We should think ourselves as a system and should start from the pillars. No one can stop us to join media, journalists, lawyers, politicians whom we could trust.
Kind of related is the ACLU documentary “Beyond the Patriot Act” which is also a must-see. Here’s a link to its page:
http://www.aclu.tv/episodes/patriotact?PHPSESSID=5e10ca520bdbaf1f275946b1b4d560ef
You can read about it and watch a trailer there and watch the complete documentary on Google Video at http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3067345375441230238&hl=en
I think our govt people are forget they will give answer to Allah not mushraf i have no world to write here after see this programe
please please Allah save my countray and my nation
my all emotation whit those family miss the person
i apology those family on behalf of my nation
@Yusuf
So you think Pakistan will be more safe from US/India/Israel by arresting and kidnapping children of 16 years?
Remember our biggest enemy is our myopic nature.
If we establish rule of law where people get justice (I do hope you know the meaning of this word) If we have democracy so that people choose their leadership then people will be united and STAND behind the govt in case of external problems.
But to suppress our own citizens by raising the bogie of external threat is simply not done.
Just look accross the border to India. During Kargil our Army captured kargil. Indian army was sleeping. But when they realised the problem the entire nation rallied behind Indian leadership. (Do you know that cost of Kargil war for India was 2500 crore rupees and Indian people voluntarily contributed close to 3800 crore rupees for their defence fund). Whereas on our side the killer of Northern Light Infantry (Musharraf) removed the elected leader. People were confused. Noone was telling the truth.
Our socalled “mitti ke sher” army did not accept bodies of our soldiers killed in Kargil.
So the strength of a nation is not its agencies rather it is its people.
If people are happy in a nation, if they are educated, if they get justice then the nation is strong. In all surveys more than 85% of philipine population is found to be optimistic. Why ? because they have rule of law. Their police cannot humiliate its citizens.
If there is problem with courts or law against terrorism then what stops us from making law.
Obviously our leaders spend months on “chor-chor bhai-bhai” NRO.
But to arrest and torture someone without charge is CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY.
Did youu see the frightened faces of the two journalists who were freed after 3 months of torture?
What a shame that our army feels happy by beating our own citizens, torturing them, kidnapping them.
It is not an army of a nation but a gang of murderers. ISI is a gang of cut throats and both must be dismantled gradually and new forces created with strict control over them by civilian government.
@ nota
Do you know?
Pakistan is still paying a heavy price for providing shelter to afghan refugees who have always h*ted pakistan and loved and supported india in any war against pakistan. I hope you know about the durrand line.
Afghanistan was first to oppose creation of Pakistan.
Iraq also was more inclined to India and it favoured India in Indo_pakistan war.
Afghani immigrants to pakistan sold klash*nkovs to pakistani people, sold Her*ion to pakistanis, bringing drug culture and terrorism. Did you ever hear of her*in and use of kla*hinkov in seventees?
These arms are still being used in ethnic and secterian v*olence in pakistan against pakistani muslims by the muslims. They have smuggled alc*hol, and pro*titutes here.
Why it is “always� duty of pakistani to support other muslim countries in their fight? Isn’t it one sided?
where were the muslim countries when India attacked pakistan?
Instead of crying for and helping them we should help our country. we should help our lawyers and journalists and civil societies to bring freedom to our country against a dictator. I read in newspapers that people from pakistan were supporting foriegners and giving them asylum. May I ask why? Why don’t you support your poor Pakistani brothers instead? we should also trust our army instead of cursing them. It is this army that has kept you safe against neighbours attack. mind it!
@Shawn
Pakistan was created in the name of Islam. It is suppossed to be home for all muslims. So we need to help other muslim countries.
And it was not afgans who brought kalashnikov in pakistan. It was CIA and our own ISI.
Our own ISI controlled drug trade to supply weapon and finance war in kashmir (It is open secret and no point in denying it).
So it is not afgans but our own Army responsible for gun culture. (They needed cannon fodder in anti-soviet war).
It is not afgans but ISI who started and controlled the narcotics trade. All major mujahid warlords were puppets of ISI.
Even taliban were created and controlled by our army.
Moreover India has not attacked us. It is another lie spread by the army. Our own army along with tribes in frontier attacked Kashmir in 1947. Our army attacked India in Rann of Kutch and Kashmir in 1965, Our airforce attacked India in 1971, our army attacked India in Kargil.
So please realise the truth. India is not the enemy. It is our own feudalistic setup and our Army and our own ISI.
These are monsters we should eliminate to make our country developed.
This is enough for me to hate Musharaf
Donot just hate Musharraf. He is just one face of establishment. Realist the truth.
It is ISI and Army (that runs businesses, property dealing and also controls our government by rigging elections) which is biggest enemy of our people.
Our army has no respect for people’s decision so they constantly rig the elections.
It is time for them to go in to barracks.
@shawn
So shoo away and go hide behind the Durand line :p
Quit it. YOu have nothing to offer so you come up with this tr*sh. No ones buying it. So what if Afghanistan has never supported us; that does not give us the right to bomb them to smithereens. About AK-47s and pr*st*tutes and drugs, Naumeed has already answered you.
“Why it is “alwaysâ€? duty of pakistani to support other muslim countries in their fight? Isn’t it one sided?” BECAUSE they are our brothers and sisters and are Muslims and not selfish when it comes to that. Y*u r*ally are a bl**dy r*cist but of course you won’t believe it
If this is the independance we don’t need this independance, we would be better off under the british rule.
@nota
Gulshan is just taunting I believe. Afterall what he say is what we have been doing in the past.
@Gulshan
You are wrong. Our army raped and killed not thousands but millions. According to the latest research the figure is close to 3 million.
In all respects our army is many times worst than german Nazis. Afterall Nazis killed 6 million in 6 years and our army killed 3 million civilians in 8 months.
We need new army, old judiciary and new secret services.
Perhaps we need such indegenous efforts for justice…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7068875.stm
Tipu
If someone mised this one, spare some time and watch this http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331
it has some pk ISI stories in middle
lanat ho aise police per ju apne hi citizen per zulm kero. Ghuda gharat kerey in zalimoon ko… this is disgusting. this is embarrasing. Is this the true face of society? i am ashamed and i am embarassad so much today. what a pity on us, the pakistani nation…. we are seeing every bit of zulm around us and still we are keeping quite.. and still those zaleel hukmraan are ruling us.
This attitude of our nation has reminded me many of hitorical nations disgusting moral grounds that holy Quran has depicted very clealy. today i am feeling that we are also among one of those nations (if not the worst among them)…
shame on you mush, shame on you wasi and shame on those who support these zalims…
shame on us(including me), the pakistan nation, who are still quite and watching this infront of our gunahgaar eyes….
http://www.ummat.com.pk/Report.ummat.com.pk/26112007-Misc_Reports/ReportSaeedAhmed-26112007.html
Read and decide who we are …. and how sense less we have become.
@Naumeed
I can’t belive it. I am pleasantly shocked. Honestly, I had prepared myself to receive comments with uncivil language and calling me agents of the devil. You have proved me wrong and I am glad you did. Now I can believe that Pakistan is changing for the better and will be a country it was supposed to be.
May Allah bless you with the strength to be on side of the truth. That is the real spirituality. We must agree and disagree with one another based upon our convictions and should rise above the controlled environment prescribed to us by the Allah’s Agents (clergy). A highly evolved soul (true saint) has said, “Truthfulness is the foundation of all human virtues”.
May we all have that strength.
@farooq
I’m afraid we are a lot worse than that…
what a start to the day. i feel ashamed for doing nothing except to write few lines for those who are suffering .we all knew these things were happening for a long time. it is us who dont want to see or beleave the truth. how could peoples in waziristan and other parts of pakistan trust this govt. for any compromise when they experienced of being betrayed many many times. good to see NS is a changed person up to now . it is a brave brave thing to say a single sentence against the US he knows where the problem lies unlike BB who is ready to send invitaion letter to the US to come and to do anything they like. only we pakistanis can bring change in pakistan through understanding, dialogue & brotherhood whether it is NWFP or balochistan or any other place. i hope NS is not an opportunist but i feel he is better than others. great job admin for posting the video.
what a start to the day. i feel ashamed for doing nothing except to write few lines for those who are suffering .we all knew these things were happening for a long time. it is us who dont want to see or beleave the truth. how could peoples in waziristan and other parts of pakistan trust this govt. for any compromise when they experienced of being betrayed many many times. good to see NS is a changed person up to now . it is a brave brave thing to say a single sentence against the US he knows where the problem lies unlike BB who is ready to send invitaion letter to the US to come and to do anything they like. only we pakistanis can bring change in pakistan through understanding, dialogue & brotherhood whether it is NWFP or balochistan or any other place. i hope NS is not an opportunist but i feel he is better than others. great job boss for posting the video.
@Gulshan,
Did you notice my userID. It is Naumeed. I have no hope. Pakistan is going to be destroyed soon and here is my prediction.
1. Musharraf becomes civilian president.
2. Using his chamcha Kiyani elections are rigged to favour BB, Fazlu, PML-Q and against Nawaz. It shall result in a hung assembly.
3. BB + PML-Q + Fazlu form a coalition.
4. Nawaz is in opposition.
5. In next 3years Musharraf becomes weak and is removed.
6. Poverty rises, inflation becomes very high and people are fed up because of mismanagement in 3 years.
7. New president dismissed the govt.
8. Another hung assembly for 3-4 years.
9. Army comes back to power.
10. Pakistani provinces revolt and pakistan breaks up in Sindh, Balochistan, Frontier and Punjab.
The only way out of this mess: Dismantle ISI, Kick our army in barracks, Neutral govt under old judiciary, free and fair elections and national government of Nawaz + BB.
But this will not happen.
Those who were born after 1970 or were kids at that time, will not know something called “Operation Searchlight”, an estimated 300,000 people were systematically killed. Read here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Searchlight
Also do not forget “operation silence” and “operation balochistan” and “operation in swat” , although enemy has changed but our army is the same, doing same atrocities.
May Allah put all of us on right path, aameen.
“Kill three million of them, and the rest will eat out of our hands” Yahya Khan
“This is not 70, they would not know what hit them” Pervez Musharraf
“Sab Maray jain gay.. mein keh raha hoon sab maray jain gay” Pervez Musharraf
“All will be killed , I am telling them all will be killed”
The Video can now be download from the link on top of the video
Admin
The truth of our brave army. What really happened in operation searchlight
@Naumeed
You are an optimist compared to me
Today, Instead of being proud, I fell ashamed of being Pakistani.
The way they took off the pujama of young child infront of his mother and sister. I used to see it in Pakistani movies about indian army in Kashmir but I never knew that pakistani police could do this even in Islamabad. Shame one Pak Police and shame on Pak Army and Shame on you Mr Musharaf.
Just to remind everyone that everyone have to die one day and there will be the judgment day.
K Khan
@ Shawn..
you wrote “Our intelligentia are no fools.why would they take mine or your family? thats the proof they havent picked up any of your family member since they know they are innocent beyond doubt.”
you are saying that the fact thay your or my family has not been affected its a proof that intelligence agency are picking up only the guilty people. How naive? There is a imple reason for this. Did you not notice what kind of people were being snathed? Lower class people. You and I who have some connections, havea ccess to education and media will no be an easy target.
I am sure you will at-least not deny that police in pakistan tortures unlawfully. Now, I will not be surprised that yours and mine families have not been tortured by police but can that be an argument to say that police is fine?
Tipu
The most important thing which pakistan needs is the rule of law.The only solution to all these problems is free judiciary.
Thats why we the youth support Imran Khan because he is the only man who is really working for the rule of law.
What a reckless evil.Very shameful images.
A very impressive attempt to raise voice over the issue of missing people.
I will spread this video to the others.
I like to shout like amina and tell every body what nasty things are going on in Pakistan. A group of shameless persons have ruin our country and its innocent people.
May Allah help us all
I copied the piece of text from operation searchlight by Pak Army against Bangal which created Bangladesh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Searchlight
Let me change some of text to make it look like current situation.
”
Requirements for Success
1. The military will launch the operation simultaneously all across Banga– (Pakistan).
2. Maximum number of political and student leaders, and those among cultural organizations and teaching staff to be arrested.
5. All internal and international communications will be cut off including Telephones, TV, Radios, Telegraphs, transmitters.
7. To deceive the Awami League, Yahia Khan (Musharaf) may pretend to continue the dialogue (with opposition), even if Mr. Bhutto (opposition) disagrees, agree to Awami League (Govt) demands .
“
I WILL LIKE TO SHARE WITH YOU ONE STORY OF A MISSING PERSON. HE WAS BASICALLY A PAKISTANI AND A DOCTOR BY PROFESSION IN MALAYSIA. HE HAD COME TO PAKISTAN ON A 2 YEAR DEPUTATION. DURING HIS STAY HERE HE CAME TO GET IN LOVE WITH A DAUGHTER OF A BRIGADIER WHO UNFORTUNATELY WAS IN ISI. WHEN THE BRIG CAME TO KNOW ALL THIS HE ORDERED THE ABDUCTION OF THAT MAN AND HE WENT MISSING FOR LIKE 8 MONTHS AND WAS TORTURED IN A SAFE HOUSE IN LAHORE. THE CJ HAD ORDERED HIS RELEASE AND ON THE NEXT HEARING OF THE MISSING PERSONS CASE HE WAS TO BE PRODUCED BUT UNFORTUNATELY THE CJ IS NO MORE IN THE COURT……
THIS IS HOW ISI HAS USED ITS POWERS FOR PERSONAL GAINS. AS I SAID IN MY EARLIER POST LAST NIGHT TOMMOROW KIYANI IS TAKING OFF FROM MUSHARAF SO ONE B**TARD GOES ANOTHER COMES……… DONT EXPECT ANYTHING GOOD FROM KIYANI BECUASE WHATEVER HE WANTED HE WILL GET IT TOMMOROW……..
KIYANI IS TAKING OVER*
Further baighairti of usharraf and his cronies:
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=11402
all i just want to say that we as a nation have become selfish . we dont feel the pain of others . where is those people who support musharraf ?
dont they see this tyrany by armed and uniformed gangs
i was just thinking that if this happens to me or my brother then what will i do?
but i cudnt give myself an answer
wake up pakistanis………
Please visit the site and you will love it
http://www.quranflash.com/quranflash.html
This is so much embarrassing… what a shameful nation we have become just becomes of the tyrant army rules who do everything against their powerless nation.
one thing everyone is forgetting is that these dictators can never be successful unless and until they people like wasi zafar, Sheikh Rashid, Justice Malik Qayyum justice dogar, sher afgun, sharifudin pirzada, and the list will go on and on (this is shameful too). we must get rid of these mir jafars inside our society and then we may be able to get rid of these tyrants.
Als! God we dont want military. we may be more free and protected without these brutal people.
Munir Malik roaring on Geo, he is so weak, but I am sure mad general will still have his pants wet after hearing him.
“3 november wali situation bahal hoogi”
Politicians are only doing posturing. We must struggle for restoration of the judiciary to pre-3 Nov position and complete restoration of constitution. That is the only way to save the country from the Beghairat Army and beghairat politicians. If we as a nation need a ‘danda’, that might well come from the SC rather than anyone else. Restore the judiciary and there is some hope.
@hafiz
“where is those people who support musharraf? dont they see this tyrany by armed and uniformed gangs”
WE are the people who support Musharraf be it by in-action, be it by staying quiet when we should be yelling and screaming bloody murder. We support him when we hob-knob with his cronies, feel proud getting invited to Chaudhry’s son’s wedding, play golf with an industrialist who has billions in loans written off; we support him when we congratulate our uncle for getting a PML-Q ticket; we support him when we don’t boycott a once-national asset that was sold to his cronie or foreign government for pennies on the dollar; we support him when we visit our cousin Major in his new house gifted to him by Mush and say how lovely it is; we support him when we proudly marry our daughter to a General’s son thinking she will be well taken care of and knowing in the back of our mind none of his wealth was acquired deservedly….
I could go on and on but let me just stop here.
Restoration of judiciary means that no noe will be able to be a scoundrel agin inl the Generals and the politicians. Must rememebr what happened to the SC when NS was the PM and the person who has won the title of Beghairat-e- Azam Qayyaum (the AG) was appointed by BB!
@Aneeza
“President can accept all demands but one”
I only have that ONE demand
The biggest crime of CJ Iftikhar Chaudary was taking the police to task, I know that it was a very quiet revolution going on in Pakistan, he institued cases against several big police officers. He used to snub IG/DIG’s in the court and taking lead many other Judges were also doing the same , I know Justice Khwaja Sharif, Javaid Iqbal, Justice Sabihuddin in Sind were following CJ in this respect.
Several police officers were awarded punishment and many others were suspended.
And I know CJ is very pragmatic he was not a revolutionary, he kept giving time to agencies, but I remember he threatened to do the same with intelligence chiefs which he was doing with police chiefs.
I have some medals for the following individuals:
Honorable Cheif Justice of Pakistan Mr. Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Ch.
Nishan-e- Pakistan and Nishan-e- Shuja’at
All the judges of the superior judiciary who did not take oath under the PCO on 3rdNov07.
Nishan-e- Shuja’at and Nishan-e- Imtiaz
All the Advocates Supreme Court who were arrested by Mush.
Hial-e-Shuja’at
In addition Aitezaz Ahsan, Munir A Malik & Ali Ahmed Kurd Advocate
Nishan-e- Shuja’at
All lawyers who were or are being arrested by Mush puppets
Hilal-e-Imtiaz
The people of pakistan have stripped President of Pakistan General Pervez Musharraf of Imtiazi Sanad, Tamgha-e- Basalat and Nishan-e-Pakistan and he has been awarded two new medals called:
Nishan-e-Beghairat and Sitara-e-Buzdil
The same two medals are being awarded to all the Corps and Div commanders as well other formation commanders of Pakistan Army
To change the sombre mood here Fazlu ki shan mai chand asha’ar (the first stanza was sent yesterday as well)
Makar-o-Faraib ki Andhi hai
Jhoot Ka Chalta Jhakkar hai
Parrh Surah Bechay Qur’an
Maulana Fazul-ur-Rehman
Dekhnay Say dar lagta hai
Samp say milta julta hai
Mullah siasat ki hai shan
Maulana Fazul-ur-Rehman
Har Amir ka chamcha hai
Jurnailon ka agent hai
Pait bara hai lumbi zuban
Maulana Fazul-ur-Rehman
(in the misra ‘Jurnailon ka—-’, I wanted to write the name of a najis animal but then Allah’s name stops me from doing that. Actually that is what he is!). Like every shair I need positive feedback. This is the only website getting the hasbay hal shairi from me.
iam feeling shame being a pakistani i wish i would not be a pakistani the police man who pulling two girls’ hair was nothging less than a beast
shame on me and all of those pakistanies who were watching this whole unbearable scene
you know, history keeps on repeating itself but us pakis have a poor memory.
Zia brought a puppet junejo….got too arrogant, got killed.
We elect these prime ministers who are really corrupt and are as worse as any dictator. people get frustrated. another military ruler comes in. and the cycle continures.
its time to elect some one different…..imran khan is the answer.
after watching this video, this article makes me feel good today
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2007/11/071127_nawaz_judges_as.shtml
Assalam o Alikum dear All
First of all we have to look why it is happening with us?why rulers like Musharraf are forced on us?i think when we are going away from Allah’Dee.Daily we see Allahs Hadood being broken by us and by our rulers.Allah has also given us a way to live our countries that is His Sharia.Then who is stopping us to put Allah,s Law at this land called pakistan??? we have to think and act.May Allah have His mercy on muslim Ummah.May Allah help Deen e Muhammad.May Allah help us and have mercy on us.Wassalam
MYA: good link
Did I miss or this is not anywhere in our media?
Anybody knows That whether NS has done something for the old age people who were made homeless just before his arrival?
@admin
Would we be finding a tab for today’s news?
@adeel
Saudi arabia has these laws and yet people there have no freedom. They also donot have the freedom of speech and rule of law. For smae crime you may get no punishment or your hands may be chopped off. It all depends upon the judge’s mood.
We donot need such laws.
Look at India. We got self rule at the same time (I cannot say independence as we are still slaves of our army) India made secular laws, independent judiciary, free media, free election commission, eliminated feudal system.
Now India is developing so fast that they are economic major power. In next 30 years it may even become moderately developed.
Did India had Shariat laws? No.
With all due respect to Shariat we need progressive laws not like hudood laws where a women needs 4 pious male witness to prove that she was raped.
We need to enforce monogamy and enforce population control like China. What is the point of giving birth if we force our children to work at the age of 10.
Our constitution of 1973 was great but army never allowed it to function. They rigged elections. They dismissed popularly elected leaders. They hatched conspiracies to prevent people’s voice.
What we need is not Caliphate but genunine democracy.
The time of Badshah is over this is age of equality. If we fail to make poor person equal to a rich man atleast electorally then Pakistan is lost.
This is heart breaking clip and today i question the creation of pakistan.is pakistan came into being for army rulers and corrupt politicians.musharraf is brutal person,he will kill many more to stay in power.napak fauj murdabad.
My dear Adeel,
I fully aympathise with your sentiments. But, I am afraid the issues are not as simple as you think.
The issue is not Musharraf but army’s rule. And the same Huddod’s taht you are referring to were enforced by Zia, another army ruler. If not following Allah’s rule is the reason for our mess why were we in a mess under Zia who actually promoted these rules? Further, yes many are not following religious teaching in pakistan but millions and millions are. Why are they being forced to bear Musharraf? Why this injustice?
Also almost all the developed countries in the world are not Islamic, or even religious, at-least in governance. By your logic, all of them should have been in a mess.
The House of Saud, the most corrupt house in the world, is enjoying prosperity for a century, benefitting from Allah’s house. By your logic they should have been destroyed.
Also, who will decide what rules of Allah to follow? Shi, Sunni, Wahabi etc? There is not one Sharia, not one interpretation of the Quran, not even a consensus about what should regarded as hadith…
in fact, too much of reference to religion has been part of our problem. Our masses are led to believe that they are in poor condition not because some other humans are denying them their rights but beacuse Allah wishes so. We are told to tolerate exploitation beacuse we will be rewarded in the other life. Mullah-Military alliance is part of our problem.
Tipu
Well,
Its not just that start blamming military, police, agencies. The point is these people are part of the society. They are us. Dictators and Establishment is 1 % or less of total. But what is Wrong with us. Its our brothers who join Army, Its our brothers Who join sevices. It is us who make the mess and then welcome Army to take over. It is us who elect the wrong people,(And we do know when we go to vote that they are not the best choice). The person who desrves selection losses becuase of no connections, broader family relations, money, status.We let these peple lose and let win the idiots.
Its past 60 years, we have been making wrong dicisions. You all have a common sense. Please think carefully and asses and chose the one who deserves.
And remember it might be the last chance.
@tipu
JUDA HO DEEN SIAASET SEY
TO REH JAATI HAY CHENGAIZI…
THERE IS CHANGAZI GOING ON IN THIS WORLD …REGARLDLESS OF WHICH RELEGION THE COUNTRY BELOGS TO ..THEY ARE ALL FAR AWAY FROM DEEN…
it has become fashion these days to condemn relegious school of thoughts for the sake of imitating western life style…what has that western school of (so called developed countries )given humanity…
1-depression
2-intolerance
3-most divorce rate
4-most suicide rate
5-lonliness
6-aimless life
etc etc
both mullah and west are lost souls…..MUHAMMADISM IS THE SOLUTION…SEARCH ON IT BEFORE GIVING UR “INTELLECTUAL COMMENTS” ON RELEGION
i have come to know wt hatred is the first time in my life.. after watchin this video my hatred for mushy has grown to a level where i never imagined i will ever hate any human with such intensity…. .
i wud urge u all to send this video to atleast 100 ppl or as many ppl as u can so all of us can understand wt can lead to a suicide bomb and how vulnerable we pakistani s are at the mercy of our very own govt and previlged.. if v cant do sumthign else atleast we can send this video to others so they can knw the truth as well.
up uptill now being in favour of mushy could ave been a matter of opinion or choice but after seeing all this anyone still supporting mushy can be categorized as devoid of having any human emotion.
@syed taimoor
I fully agree with you.
I second to imran malik
@Tipu.
You put it very well.
Our country was destroyed by two extreams. One under Zia, where he tried to impose so called Islam on us and then by Mush who divided the society into two groups . Cronies who are supporting him (includes people like AH ) are moderates and anyone opposing him is extreamist.
Guess where people like Imran Khan will fit??
kia kisi key pass achee khabar nai hey. koi acha analysis hi sahi
@ahmed bhai
I am waiting for tomrrow to get general’s skin off. BTW you can read this
http://pklatest.com/2007/11/27/what-is-in-a-oath/
to know how disgusted I feel about the PCO “judges”.
@ Adeel, Naumeed and Tipu
The reality lies somewhere in between your statements. Having the need and desire of implementation of sharia or Islamic law is not bad in itself. This, in fact, is an aim every Muslim should have in his or her life. How to do that is a separate debate. It is not a solution to do it like Zia did (in his own thinking), the Saudi interpretation of Islam is also sickening where Islam applies to some portions of life and not to some others (for example there is no concept of monarchy in Islam), also the MMA style Islamization of double faced politics is not islamic at all. Also it is not like we are doomed because of our irreligious tendencies and should just lament over it. The truth is, in fact, realizing that we are a victim of lack of education, poverty and deprivation and our lack of understanding of Islam is also a result of that. This oppressive system has succeeded in creating two classes, the so called educated liberals who think Islam is humbug and Quran only good for recitation (without knowing its meaning) on deaths or seeing your daughters off under the shadow of, on weddings. The other class is the misled enthusiasts who think that by focing everyone to become Muslims they will achieve the goal. Our solution rests in two things: educating the destitutes in modern knowledge and letting them grasp the true spirit of Islam and for so called liberal people like us, who can spend half of their lives learning and understanding alien languages and techniques for practical life, to at least spend half as much effort in understanding Islam. Rest assured all the confusions and differences in interpretations, in implementation etc will evaporate. Because there was only one Islam that was taught to Muslims by the Prophet – no Sunni Islam, or Shia Islam or Brelvi or Deobandi Islam.
Just an addition to my earlier post:
Following one school of thought does not make one a different Muslim or a non muslim. As someone said above, there are different Sharias at work. No there is just one sharia, its just that is has room and flexibility for personal, territorial and regional differences. The only problem is that we, the educated Muslims do not give two hoots about at least knowing what Islam is all about. When you do that, it is very simple actually and once you have done that you can blast the ideas of the MMA and their likes to sand.
Aslam Baig talking sense on BBC, he clearly said that once general doffs his uniform , army is not going to support him.
Army will support his new boss Kiyyani as per their rules & traditions.
Nothing new said by Baig sahib.
This is Aslam Begs’ old opinion and if you combine it with Nusrat Javeds’ statement on live with talat (wardi na utarna wala), Nustrat said that after wardi wo aslam beg jaisa lagey ga
@PEJAMISTRI
i hope so too…i hope that when he take off his wardi he is not allowed to wear any other cloth as well and shld be roamed around in the city of isd …without clothes on a donkey with his face sprayed black….and “enlightened moderation” be stamped on his back….
@naumeed
being a muslim is important than being a pakistani. everything at present is showing that democracy is the right system for a good life but dont forget there is a life afterwards. how much you criticize sharia but Allah has told us to choose that path. whole thing is based on priorities if our life is influenced by these worldly resources then ofcourse we are going to support these systems. like it or not but sharia is the right way for every believer
here and afterwards. unfortunately we knew little about our religion practicing is the different thing but what the Allah and Prophet Muhammad(S.A.W.W) has told us is cent percent true full stop.
@ pejamistri
Indeed Musharraf takes the cake for being the most baighairat of all dictators that we have had. The ease and the dhitai with which he keeps moving the goal posts is annoying to the nth level.
Sigh! May we be rid of him soon. I was talking to an old relative of mine and the statement that she gave made me realize how deeply do people resent him and yet are unable to do anything. She said with a sigh, “Chalo ker ley jitni hakoomat kerna chahta hai, Kab tak karey ga. 63 ka ho gaya hai. Kabhi tou marey ga”. However, what she did not know was key mertey mertey poorey mulk ko maar dey ga!
Folks
People like Musharaf think that this world is the end and they are immortal (remember Zia-ul Haq) but they always forget that Allah is above them and will hold them responsible of their sins one day!
“Dictatorship is a constant lecture instructing you that your feelings, your thoughts and desires are of no account, that you are a nobody and must live as you are told by other people who desire and think for you.”
- Stephen Vizinczey
***************************************
Democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time. -WINSTON CHURCHILL, speech, Nov. 11, 1947
I think we must distinguish between religion and morality/ethics.
I was not suggesting that morality should be separated from politics, but religion must.
Siyasat becomes changezi when morality is excluded from it.
Religion has an extremely important role to play in our everyday life and gives meaning to it. But in today’s society when we have many religions – or many interpretations of the same religion – it is best that our political decisions, particularly or law making, are not guided by appeal to religion.
Why? there are many reasons but let me put forward just one. Diversity in religious interpretations. Just take the issue of women. In response the Mush government’s desire to change hudood laws we saw the various interpretations. We can say that those who were against the change did not understand true islam but the others would same the same. Mush’s enlightened moderation would appear misguided to Taliban and Taliban’s Islam would appear misguided to liberals and so on.
Now, there is no harm if everybody practices his or her understanding of religion. The problem comes when one tries to impose his or her understanding on others. If government is not de-linked from religion this is the danger. we see this in Iran where non Shias are oppressed; in SArabia where non-Sunnies are oppressed; in Pakistan where minority religions are oppressed; even India under the influence of religious Right became oppressive for Muslims and others.
In light of religious diversity and because, I believe, no religion or sect within a religion should be allowed to have the dominance, the business of state shopuld be run in a secular manner.
Jinnah too had such a vision: “Now, I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the state”. August 11, 1947.
Tipu
@tipu
for ur kind information
our role model is MUHAMMAD not JINNAH….
secularism has lead societies towards total blindness….but i think its useless to talk about this in this forum..since inflated egos wouldnt let no body learn any thing…
@faraz
You and your fundamentalist views can go take a hike. Go on keep supporting Zia’s Hudood laws, MMA and Baitullah Maisood in SWAT who are demanding Shariat.
Taliban had imposed Shariat iin Afganistan and life had become hell in this world.
Being a “muslim before pakistani” theory is the reason for all international terrorism. People in london killing innocent school childred in buses by bombing just because British govt is supporting Israel is illogical and utter nonsense.
Learn to question. Because from questioning comes knowledge. But people like you donot understand the meaning of knowledge. People like you should only learn arabic and stay away from English as it is Kaffir language.
Try to be a human before you shout for being a muslim.
For people like you life after death is more important then why do you not die?
For people like you a hungry childs tear means nothing, pain of people mean nothing because to remove these one has to use machines which are made in factories and these factories are constructed on loans (on interest) so they are haram, eh?
Why are you using internet by the way as it is a kaffir techmology.
People like you are total bigots and have destroyed our country. Go an settle in Saudi arabia in Mecca because for you this country comes later. Right.
Also if tommarrow Saudi Arabia attacks Pakistan then you will fight on the side of Saudi arabia because that is Allah’s country.
Shame on you for being ostrich like.
People like you want to DERAIL this forum because your beloved Army is being bashed here.
You can go and do what ever you want in your house but you have no right to dictate as to how the rest of us ( sane Pakistanis) should live.
Keep supporting army and we will kick your a$$ soon.
DEMONSTRATION Against the Breaches of Human Rights in Pakistan
Restore the Judiciary!
Restore Democracy!
Release all political prisoners
Time & Date: Saturday, 1st December at 1pm
Venue: Opposite Downing Street
Organised by: Doctors Against Breaches of Human Rights in Pakistan (supported by Campaign Against Martial Law in Pakistan & Free Pakistan movements)
Tel. 07786394216 & 07817773438
All welcome
I am amazed that after watching evidences like this, some still find ways to defend the post nine-eleven regime in Pakistan.
To say that this did not happen or is exaggerated means we are turning a blind eye to the menifest truth.
To somehow explain the resons why police and agencies under musharraf govt committed acts of terror like this one is rationalization. You can rationalize just about anything if you want to. We must remember that even Hitler rationalized his terror acts which culminated into killing millions.
May God save us from these tribulations. Perhaps these are our own collective sins which have brought rulers like musharraf but obviously some of us are made to pay much more than others.
It is important to remember that in the end we are all in the same boat which is sinking and it will sink everyone with it.
Benazir Bhutto’s exclusive interview in jawab deyh show !!!!!!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KXSPDcgwKMA
A must watch ……very interesting
I feel so ashamed being called a pakistani if this is what happens in Pakistan. i really dont have words to express my feelings. i am in tears watching this….never felt so ashamed before. The family seemed a normal middle class educated family….
i am even more ashamed at number of Pakistanies posting comments in favour of this video. For those just be honest for 5 seconds if this was your family?
My friend Imran,
This is precisely the point. Your and mine model is Muhammad (pbuh) but he is not the model for Hindus and Christians and others who also living in Pakistan.
Apply your ideas to countries where Muslims are in minority. Already we can see that as Christianity and Hinduism are coming back to Europe and India, Muslims are facing greater hardship. If Europe become Christian politically, it may make laws that may even prohibit practice of Islam (beacuse they may say that Islam is not a religion; Christianity is the final religion). If India starts to make laws according its Gita and Ramayan what will happen to Muslims? Muslims will have a very very difficult life if Europe becomes Christian and says Jesus is our model or in India they make Rama their model. So i would like all countries to be secular and not make laws according to majority religion otherwise minorities everywhere will have difficulties.
Also think about it? Why was Paksitan created in the first place? The fear was that a Hindi majorioty India will make make laws according to Hinduism and this will be deterimental to Muslims. But then, is it right that we make our minority Christians and Hindus and others second class citizens? You probably knwo that constitutionally no non-Muslim can be the President of Pakistan. And you know that even a man like shahid masood had commented negatively whem Bhagwan Das became CJ. But you saw what good role he played. to serve paksitan it is not necessary to be a Muslim.
Don’t just think of Paksitan where Muslims – Sunni Muslims – are in majority. Apply your thinking across the world and you will see that if it is followed, in many many places muslims will suffer.
It is best in a religiously plural world that our political decisions are not made on religious grounds.
Finally, please try to understand that secular is not anti-religious or atheist. I call myself secular. I am a practising Muslim and proud to be one. But I am secular because i would not like to make laws based on religion. I have morals and i apply morality to politics but not my religion. Secular state does not mean secular society. America is a secular society; India is a secular society but both are highly religious. Do not confuse the isuse and think calmly rather then getting upset.
Tipu
@tipu
I understand your perspective and appreciate your taking time to explain it.
here is my piont of view
I think there has been only one relegion since the inception of Human being into this earth…that relegion says “this world is created by GOD and there is a world after death and this life is very short ,if you want to be successful you better live this life according to the rules and regulations mentioned by the creator.”
if one beleive in tha above mentioned statement and hold this belief throughout his life then every thing falls in place and islam is the relegion which tells us how to make this possible,,how to keep ourselves away from the enticements and temptations of devil and how to stick to this basic belive…this beleve is the root cause of all the blessings and successes in this world and hereafter …any success without this belief is mere illusion …
p.s if you look at the political systems ,all of them have derived the basic theology of law ,juriprudence ,rules of ethics morality and henceforth from the same law of accountability presented by the relegion….more they get stiffer towards the theology of this basic relegion ..the more the societies will nurture and will attain tranquility both individually and at the level of govt….
i would need more time to explain this and this forum is not the adequat platform for it ,neither do i know howmuch time you possess..so i will leave it here ..
take care
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/rough/2007/09/pakistan_the_di.html
wasi zafar greatest hits.
Finally BB is exposed…..per Geo news she is willing to work with mush once he is not in uniform. Everything else is acceptable.
This video has made me heavy heart as all of you, although its not what we already don’t know but the graphic display made us all present at the scene when the 16 years old kid was looking for help & now we feel equally guilty as those who were present there.
Musharaf is a curse of Allah on this nation which did nothing to save shaheed Z.A. Bhutto.
Musharaf will suck more blood than Shah of Iran, behind him is the same powerful Zionist lobby which has stakes all over the world, make no mistake high stakes are involved & all the top brass Generals are hooked by dirty money of earthquake relief fund,I mean billion of rupees.
Apparently Musharaf has no wisdom & when he talk the way he talk,its easy to tell he is far below normal intellect–Psychologically such below average people are made the best stooge.
We need a reform in our Army–First thing we do to get them out of Baluchistan University patronage–They must be given under PU or KU & standard of their degrees shouldn’t be below average standard of these universities.
No officer should go beyond Brigadier rank unless he pass the toughest levels of Masters Degrees conforming to standards of these Universities.
Now the ball is in NS court…..Is he with mush/bb/fazlu/mqm?
IF NS take part in elections that will help bb
IF NS bycotts that will help chaudharies..
now you guies decide which devil shld he help…
Participation of NS in election would also legitimize the election process
And more importantly it will help the previous deal traika(BB, madcow, Kiyyani)
If NS boycots election, he will directly help restore the judiciary, stamp the end of Musharraf regime, and things could be better.
If NS does not boycot elections, he will directly legitimise the elections, and more ffort will be required on the part of lawyers, journalists and like-minded politicians and put an end to the politics of NS himself.
Ns does not have the excuse of other parties whether or not supporting him. He has to decide on his own. He does not have the excuse of lack of support from other parties.
@dmin,
Appericiate if you could put this documentary as well along with missing in Pakistan.
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/rough/2007/09/flwrc58.html?&c=3wm
We need to give these people some hope.
thanks
It is realy awaikning, we are saying overselves muslim and look to these people who have no emotions and no sense. believe shame to be a part of such a nation which cant protest for their rights. atleast we should ask that these people are humans. very depressed to see these images. May Allah give us courrege to fight these non-sense people.
Either case prime minister will BB for sure. If NS goes for elections BB will have legitimacy otherwise the whole world will say she won in the absence of creditable opposition.
i think during every martial law the generals are assigned (by america or ?) duty to demange the country severly. Gen yahyia did his job excellently in breaking Pakistan. Gen. zia also performed his job perfectly good by introducing secetarian intolarance among society and making seceret agencies uncontroable and ruthless by taking part in Afghan war.
Now Mush is busy in war on terror and now the severly demaging effects of this war on our country are there. This war has given respect to a prostitution and insult to a pious woman. To provide justice to the prostitution, hundreds of the innocent boys and girls are labled as terrorists and are killed in military operation, while on the other hand the pious gets justice in the form of insult, manhandled and imprisonment.
-see who comes after 10 years or so with new plans of destructions.
Hum aik murda koom hain…
@Rihat
If NS boycotts, PMLQ would single out BB by having more inclination towards right groups(MMA)
So we might expect BB too out of the ring!!!!!!!!!
@RIHAT
I think urs is valid arguemnt
so ns shld go for bycott.
Apparently NS have no other choice than to go for a boycott.
I am hugely impressed by the struggle of Mrs. Amna Janjua. I am absolutely convinced that her struggle caused the chains of these events in which we find our society getting up from a long sleep. This is so encouraging. I myself know how difficult it is to speak against ISI and I salute her courage to go a demonstrate in front of ISI headquarters, I know why the people standing at that time did not help her , it requires a courage of a lion to interfere in the affairs of ISI. But again she seems to me an iron lady.
I am convinced CJ Iftikhar would have got inspiration from her to stood up agains the inteligence chiefs on 9th of March, and I am also convinced that the biggest and unpordonable crime of CJ was to hear the case of missing persons.
I am somewhat passimistic today , I feel agencies in Pakistan are not going to forgive CJ and his fellow judges they will no be reinstated even if the mad general goes away.
But wait we as a nation need the courage of Amna Janjua , if one lady with 3 small kids can force the COAS to doff his uniform, can’t we 160 million people throw away these agencies into sea in karachi.
@shahid kinaree,saqibtahir and all pppp jayaalaaas.
what you guies say now…do you still sing praise of BB BAJI….
BB BAJI BARI SYAAANI ,BARI ACHHEEEEEE…..
PLZ CUT THE BB BAJI CRAP NOW…AND COME TO SEE THE REAL FACE OF THIS kemeeeeni aurat,and admit that she belongs to a kemmmeeeeneee family
well said pejamistri:
Mrs. Amina Jnajua is phenomenal and I am sure the precedence has set and agencies will be bracketed. Salute to her efforts! time after time…
@ imran malik
its no surprise to me. I have been saying this all along that BB will make u-turns in her stance to favor Mush. Her US sponsor cannot allow her to go against their wishes and BB wants her $ 1.5 billion accounts back and wants to get in power.
Her supporters will once again come up with lame excuses and weak arguments with the same old claims of how ZA bhutto was hanged because he didnt compromise on principles. they fail to understand that it happened 2 decades ago and BB is no ZA bhutto. She is using her legacy to ruin this country and her blind followers are helping her.
I wonder what excuse they will come up with for her latest statement, i.e. ‘now that Mush is taking off uniform, there is a possibility of her working with him’
. I am sticking to my opinion that this woman is as conniving as they come.
In his novel “War and Peace� , Leo Tolstoy argued that the history is not shaped by “great men� , it is not Napoleans, Musharraf , Iftikhar Chaudarys of this world who move events, it is the massess , insignificant people , social pressures and several other forces that shape the events in history.
9th of March , 20th July , 3rd November and now 29th of November does not happen in Pakistan because General Pervez Musharraf had issues with CJ Iftikhar Chaudary, or US put pressure on Pervez Musharraf to patch up with BB, or King Abdullah allowed Nawaz Sharif to return to Pakistan.
It all started with 20 or so insignificant persons along with thousands and then hundreds of thousand people starting realizing something unthinkable.
@farhan @ imran malik
Yaar ab kabroon ki siyaasat lhatam honi chahiye. period.
Bahut ho gai bhai………..
BBs live press conference on Geo news.
This woman is unbelievable. Listen to how she is justifying her participation in elections
. I seriously doubt the intelligence level of her followers. If you can’t see her u-turns, theres something seriously wrong in your upper floor 
.
Above comments have made me feel as pakistanis are strongly criticising our own army. This is not a good sign accusing army coz of few black sheeps. what about the judges who took oath under emergency combo.Aren’t they black sheeps too? what about Malik Qayyum and shareefuddin pirzada? and some more? this doesnt mean our whole judiciary is corrupt. Army is a very desciplined field. in the history of pakistan no army man has brought coup against any general. they have to obey orders. same is the case with police. both need some important corrective measures though. rightly said ” your army, your police, and the po0liticians are reflection of your people” they are not aliens. lets say if you want to destroy your own army? surely india will waste no time in attacking us. lets say goodbye to US. then who else? if you want conditions like iraq and afghanistan and fragility like iran, go ahead..do it!!!!!!!!!! i h*te musharraf for being a dictator, but the decision on war on terror was a wise one. you may disagree.
I am sure the Jawabdeh episode has given BB a taste of free media…
I will not be surprised if she was not ggrilled like this before – both in or out of Pakistan…
bottom line, she will not be interested in free media…free judiciary is never her priority…
so it seems pretty bad for us democrats at the moment…
but not unhopeful…this is just the beginning…it may take time, but freedom will come..
Tipu
Shame Shame Benazir……..everybody get ready for MR 10%…..he is coming back. Khawaja Tariq Rahim got party ticket from Lahore over jiyalaas. Khawaja Tariq Rahim was governor with Farooq Lagari.
@shawn,
and please push your history back and ask yourself why in the first place there was a need to have a war on terror…?
who in the first place created this ‘terror’ against which we are now fighting…?
what u-turn was taken by Mush after 9/11 regarding the support to Taliban?
If Mush was wise he would have not initiated Kargil and would not have continued to support Taliban after coming to power…
his decision to go for war on terror was not wise but only a necessity. He has himself said that US had threatened to bomb Pakistan to the stone age if we had not co-operated.
I cannot think of any decision by mush that can be called wise. Please enlighten me if you can…
Tipu
Ok, BB just proved in her press conference she wont be supporting reinstatement of pre-nov 3 judiciary. A Dawn news journalist asked her she is not saying anything about pre-nov 3 judiciary. she answered ‘our struggle is for democracy and rule of law, and it is not for some people in the judiciary’ : ). The journalist emphasized his question again mentioning pre-nov 3 judiciary and she replied again our struggle is for restoration of democracy and rule of law.
I wonder how will her supporters defend this view of their leader.
Shawn:
Just to correct your doubts.
Decision on war on terror has nothing to do with independent judiciary. let judges work and justice prevail.
With Nukes, Indian fear is over and Army can’t make people fool.
Nation is known by its people, their behavior, their social responsibility, education, determination… and not by ARMY. Justice is an important reflection of society and police is just one implementor for providing justice
Why Iraq and Afghanistan? Why not to be a normal one with abnormality removed.
@farhan
Don’t woryy she knows very well that due lack of eclectronic media, theres no harm in taking any kina turn, whether its U or V.
BB has given her clear stance. She wants to go into elections and win them, then she will think about judiciary. She intentionally avoid giving statement regarding the restoration of judges. In fact she categorically sida, she wants independent judiciary. so the word ‘pre-November 3′ has been removed. We will see a lot of expectations from her.
I don’t think PPP supporters will sense that, since it is difficult to perceive. Rather they would perceive it but somehow try to defend it one way or the other.
I think BB is not here for fair election.
In her right mind she can not give unpopular statements just before elections like giving away Qadeer Khan or stupid statement about so called better treatment of punjabi PM.
During her deal with agencies she must have been assured that either there will be no election or they will be rigged in her favor.
After watching this video,I have no word to say to that little girl crying for his brother and to her brother who is being humuliated in Public .Shame on all of us being a Pakistani .Do we still think ,this is a Muslim country.This does not happen even in poorest country of Africa.In the begining.two girls are being dragged by a terrorist (policeman) and once again those girls are calling for Some Mohammed Bin Qasim.We all Pakistani are deaf and we do not deserve to be called as Muslims not even humanbeings.Dispensing justice has been the pride of Muslims and attracted many non-muslims to the circle of Islam but where CJ has been banned because he was dispensing justice.We all must ask this question to ourself.Are we muslims??????????????????? All the teachings of Islam are being practiced by non-muslims in the west but not by muslims.Because Only in the west you will find dignity of human beings.May God bless Pakistan.
Now we have to see the stance of NS. Will he start following the same suit? For him it is quite different. Because he will lose credibility and support from his workers and might lose. On the other hand, PPP supporters don’t care what their leader does, they will support her whatever she does.
Aik beyghunah insaan ka katal dehshat ghardi hai.
Phir chahey yeh katal koi idaara karey ya koi group.
Jitney zaida beyghuna insaan katal hon gey dhehshat ghardi utni hi bharey gi.
the reason why Mush and BB are able to do all this is just one…
they have no fear of street protests.
With US supporting/ media black out and impotent judiciary, what pockets of resistance are there can be crushed…
so they fear nothing…
if people are the source of power in a democracy, people must show that they have this power in the first place,…
We have failed on this point…for a variety of reason….
I am sad…it seems this particular battle is now lost…
it is particularly sad that BB said these things justa day before Mush was going to leave his COAS office…
we must now concentrate on the battle of ideas…people will ahve to be educated to see the superiority of democracy only then will they realise their power and impose it…
brace yourself for a long battle in the night of darkness…but morning must come…must come…
tipu
BB and NS should stop giving lame excuses of APDM. The two big parties don’t need any stamp from other platforms. they should show their clear stance independent of other parties. The other parties would unite with them on either sides.
@ Tanweer Amjad
Whatever my friend. Doesn’t matter how she puts it. All this ’stating categorically’ and other such BS cant justify her actions. She can play all she wants with the words. Bottom line is she was the first one from opposition to support Mush and she is continuing to do so for her own interests.
This is an earnest appeal.
The elections need to be boycotted cuz participation in elections under emergency will legitimate the state of emergency as well as give credibility to the socalled new illegal judges.
Please boycott elections as well as the people participating in it. Imran Khan is not an emotional fool. he knows that standing against the opportunists is very important at that time.
I feel ashamed of all the politicians who are poarticipating in the elections. What good did all these opposition parties do in the Parliament of Musharraf last time that they dont want to leave the field open to them? what did fazlurrehman do for the nation? he was just busy in filling his pockets and tummy. As for BB she would do anything to be the next PM. more characterless than any prostitute i would say!
Please boycott elections. the are unconstitutional and un lawful.
Save Pakistan!
General doffing his uniform tomorrow:
This is perhaps the most significant achievment of Pakistan civil society in the last sixty years. In 1988, General Zia was never under such a pressure from public to doff his uniform or allow the democracy to work. He was killed not because there was unbearable civil society pressure. And then in 1971, Yahaya Khan had to leave because of the breakup of the country, and perhaps a little bit closer to the current situation was Ayub who had to leave because of some civil society pressure but I can not comment more on that.
IF (and this is a big IF) General does remove his uniform tomorrow , then that will be the single biggest achievement of the struggle of people, and I am sure it will be irreversible as because of those forces (free media, easy access to history, courageous civil society, irreversible actions of Judiciary and so many other) no future general will feel as easy to grab the power as Pervez Musharraf, Zia ul Haq, Yahya Khan, Ayub Khan felt.
Fazlu lost creditability
BB lost creditability
Qazi on the border of losing creditability
The ball is in NS court…..he has to prove that he was right and mush was wrong in 1999.
He took a bold decision at the time of nuclear test…….time to take another bold decision.
@ pejamistri
Good analysis bro. I believe he will take off his ’skin’ this time. There is no other excuse unless India attacks us firsst thing in morning
.
@tipu
vvv rightly said bro
i was thinking on the exact same lines…
its all happening bc of lack of street protest…
@ Rihat
I second you bro. After the nuclear test decision, NS boycotting would be his second bold decision. Lets hope he doesn’t lose his credibility like the lot.
@Admin,
Please put the latest BB press conference.
Guys BBs motives are very clear now. She appreciates Mush as a civilian President and now talks will start with him. PPP wants smooth transition of power and they will participate in Elections at any cost and in the same breath she says free and fair elections not possible.
All judges should be released, when asked repeatedly that why dont you demand the restoration of judges only their release, she says PPP is working for restoration of democracy not individual judges.
Until PPP doesnot boycott elections and demand restoration of judges, nothing is going to happen, take my word and do not expect anything good to happen in future. No hopes now.
@all
HERE IS THE BOTTOM LINE OF DEAL BW MUSH AND BIBI.
I HELP U BECOME PRESIDENT FOR NEXT 5 YRS
YOU HELP ME BECOME PM …….
USA HAPPY….WE BOTH HAPPY…..BAAKI SEB GO TO HELL……………………..
IKs clear stance on most of things had put him altogether in a different level.
The bad moves by rest of the parties would futher raise his level.
So Big parties should be very very careful in thier moves.
As an example during NS arrival people very clearly asked for boycott.
To go against their wishes would be a big disaster for both BB & NS
Has everyone noticed all jiyalas disappear from here whenever BB makes a u-turn and holds press conferences to issue !diotic statements. They reappear after a day or so : ).
@farhan
exactly…
and i think it was all planned…
i still remember the day CJ was reinstated ,MUSH went to meet bb the same day (20th july),at that piont he knew that as a last resort he will have to impose martiallaw ….and after that he will need the support of BB otherwise he would succumb to the pressure of all political parties…USA was already inclining towards bb .. ….so BB grabbed the oppurtunity with both hands….
THEY knew that the NRO will be chanllenged at SC ..but he will sack the judges any way so nothing to worry about…after all this assurance BB came back…and the assurance not only ends here …the elections will also be rigged in favour of BB…
People Of Pakistan: Open your eyes and ears, start using your own brain and conscience to understand the situation. Stop continue being a herd of animals and be led by the Greedy Rat Bastards i.e Mullas, Army and Corrupt Politicians. This is your nation as much as theirs. Take control of it. Protect it for yourself and for your future generations. If you don’t use your own brains, they will continue to incite you against this enemy, that enemy, this Kaffir and that kaffir. Be vigilent. You have given too much power to Army and Clergy. They ask you to sacrifice and you should. But, while you sacrifice, they are raping Pakistan. All these Mullas who are inciting you for JIHAD, how many of them have sent their sons or daughters for Jihad. Have the guts to question and challange for debating on issues. Refrain from violence but have the courage to protest and question these leaders, the corruption and abuse of power.
Don’t feel depressed. Situation will get worse but eventually your sacrifice will bear fruits. There is no such thing as “Islam Khatre Main Hai”. A great philosophy or heavenly message has its own strength.
The real danger to Islam is from the Islamic Clergy and real dangerto pakistan is from its own police/military brutality.
Whenever you see a policeman, military person, Clergy member or govt. official, in a civil but firm way, let them know as to what a disgusting role they are playing. Let them know that they are pary in this brutallity, directly or indirectly. But do not get into shouting match with them. Bycot their functions. Refuse ther invitations. Slowly but surely, they will get the message.