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Visitors News Views on Emergency - 29&30 Nov
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641 Responses to “Visitors News Views on Emergency - 29&30 Nov”
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@All,
A new “Visitors’ News and Views� post is created every day or every other day. Reason for creating a new session is that a page with less number of comments renders quickly on your screen, especially on a slow Internet connection.
I like the idea, suggested by Tanweer Amjad of posting a link to the next comment session from the previous session. I would like you guys and gals to make it a self managed process. Whenever you see a new session of Visitors Views, copy the link from the address field of your browser and paste it after the last comment of the previous session. Put a note that this is the end of comments session.
Links to all previous sessions can be found in “EMERGENCY� tab at the top of main page. Current comment session can also be accessed via “Visitors’ Views on Emergency“ link found on the right side of main page. Please start using this link as the main post may get pushed down due to other urgent posts.
Also, use this Visitors’ News Views for general comments. Limit videos related comments to the video post only.
I seek your comments to a new commenting process. Starting with the weekend of 1st December, a first time visitor’s comment will go into moderation automatically. After the approval, further comments from the same ID will be posted directly. If the same ID is used from a different computer, it will go into moderation again (not tested yet). This time it may take longer to validate your post as it may be an abuse. This way the complaint of ID being reused and one person using multiple IDs can be reduced.
For NS the Judiciary is important. For BB it is not.
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=11440
This is the time when politicians like NS and BB can redeem themselves by standing up for the judiciary because it will benefit Pakistan. Pakistani people are very gracious and they will reward their stand by forgiving their past misdeeds.
Its not BB vs NS but Bush vs Sheikh
The following story appearing in all the papers is a bit more significant than it seems, especially with it’s timing. It really is a not-so-veiled threat by Bush to NS to toe-the-line or else we will paint you as our enemy. See how all US papers have jumped in to hammer the point and all these unnamed “officials” parroting Bush…
US doubts Sharif’s commitment to war on terror
In my humble opinion politicians (BB, NS …) have to choose from two options that are left for them at this point. Both options have their own pros and cons.
Option 1. Outright confrontation with Mush for foreseeable future and try to remove Mush through agitation. This option looks good to many but it has any dangers and issues. The first issue is that masses have not yet joined agitation and protests are limited to only intellectual elite, lawyers and journalists. The support from Schools, Mosque and Bazar is absolutely crucial for any movement to overthrow a government. Unfortunately except some lukewarm protests from students no serious outburst of protests has so far seen from youth. Mosque and Bazar are criminally silent. Both have no interest in anti-Mush agitation due to their own selfish reasons.
If emotions take precedence over rationality then this option looks good. But the risks too high and have endless negative possibilities e.g. more bloodshed, more damage to fragile economy, more damage to institutions, another army takeover by fresh general, an emergency on pattern of Bangladesh, another thrashing of politicians, civil war and so on. This is not a great scenario. Are we ready for an orange revolution or a Pakistani green revolution?
Option 2. Let elections happen and get new favourable ground reality i.e. A Mush unfriendly parliament that does not allow indemnity to Mush - then slowly push Mush out by legal means.
His option can only work if:
a) all parties including BB and APDM agree on a single point i.e. RESTORATION (constitution, judiciary, free media).
b) Civil society keep pressure on Mush and all political parties before and after elections
c) Lawyers continue to boycott PCO judges making new judiciary unworkable
d) Push Mush so that Emergency is lifted and constitution restored before elections and role of local governments and agencies is eliminated during and after elections
e) BB, APDM and regional parties do seat-to-seat adjustment to defeat pro-Mush candidates
f) All parties agree to make this election a referendum against Mush
I pray that our political masters make right choice in the coming days. Personally I would advocate a non-violent political solution of current mess.
(on Police advice the venue has been changed from Downing street to Parliament Square)
DEMONSTRATION Against the Breaches of Human Rights in Pakistan
Restore the Judiciary!
Free the Media!
Release all political prisoners!
LONDON, UK
Time & Date: Saturday, 1st December at 1pm
Venue: Parliament Square (East footpath)
Organised by: Doctors Against Breaches of Human Rights in Pakistan (supported by Campaign Against Martial Law & Free Pakistan movements)
Tel. 07786394216 & 07817773438
All welcome
In the above story, they also use Kargil as one of Nawaz’s failures. I believe Kargil was Mush’s stupidity than anything else.
Once I asked a retd general to tell me what Kargil was all about. This is what he told me (and I tend to believe him):
Kargil operation was just like any other operations that we dream up for our war-games. It had been war-gamed many times before and each time it was shot down not because we could not win Kargil but because we knew the reaction from India would be a full-scale war and unless we were prepared for that, it was a no-go. Nothing had changed when Mush launched the operation. We certainly were not prepared for a full-scale war and India reacted as expected. In other words, it should never have been carried out at that time.
I don’t know whether Nawaz supported it or not. I do know Mush knew better. If Nawaz supported it, it had to be due to Mush not telling him all the facts.
The west doesn’t like NS as much as BB. We have become a 53rd state of the us. An article that gives us some idea of the western think tanks regarding mush’s retirement.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/29/world/asia/29pakistan.html?ref=world
The situation of pakistan is improving on the scene. Mushy doffed off his uniform, emergency will be lifted soon, and BB and Nawaz are back. But will the judges be back? Will the cause of the lawyers and people who were jailed die with them? Does anyone still remember our cause. Our aim to restore judiciary - we dont need this judiciary just for musharraf bashing, but also to keep a check on other member of our society for example politicians! I am not a really big of IK as a politician but as a person yes, he atleast stood upright and was steadfast. Don’t our elders teach us to be like that. When will our devious minds learn. Our minds are so crooked that we can’t even see him as the righteous in our head but we all see IK as fool. Even if he see him as truthful of all these politicians we deny him the audience he dservers by being silent at this debauchery!
Do u see what i mean! Dont u get it! When will u get it? For what r u waiting? An apocalypse? Have you forgot our hero, the judge! Chaudhary Iftikhar! The symbol of justice, freedom, a voice for the poor, a voice for the opressed!
He is not just a politcal symbol! He can be the mehdi for pakistani politics . The lon awaited messiah who would reform our politicians including the army!
Today at his resignation musharraf told the world that without pakistan army the country can not exist as an entity!
He should know that Pakistan wasnt made by the army! Nations are found on the basis of militias and armies. Armies exist if nations exist. If the nation doesnt back the army then which nation is the so-called Pakistan army protecting.
Yeh Pakistan ka matlab kia la-ilaha ka naara kis nay lagaya tha? Yeh pak fauj ka dar western powers key dilon mein kis nay bithaya tha? Soviets ko kis nay defeat kiya tha?
Not the pak army? It were these people of tribal areas, these mullahs, these talibans, whatever name you give them they are all the same. They look alike and they speak the same language pushto! These people form 25% of our army!
Pak army nay kiya kiya? Na 1948 ki jang jeetim, na 1965 ki jang jeeti, na 1971 ki jang jeeti, aur naa hi kargil war jeeti, siachin per bhee har gayey aur kashmir aur sur creek per bhi har gayey!
Harey tu ham harey, harey tu pakistani awam hari not the pak fauj!
Iss liyey ayey gernelo. yeh zulm bas ker do, iss sey pehlay key woh loog uth kharay hoon…woh log jin per aajtak dunya ki kui fauj qabza nahi ker saki……neither the british conquered them, neither the greeks or the sikhs or the mughals or the hindus!
What are you pakistani army - a mixture of all these armies! Try your best! I bet you’ll fail!
can you upload Capital Talk @footpath - 28 November 07
@PJ Mir
“Today at his resignation musharraf told the world that without pakistan army the country can not exist as an entity!
He should know that Pakistan wasnt made by the army! Nations are found on the basis of militias and armies. Armies exist if nations exist.”
Well said. “without pakistan army the country can not exist” might be debated by Army lovers but there is no debating the opposite. But then again they (and Bush) believe Mush is tha bastion of democracy
Pervez Musharaaf is not the first Army general to hold president’s position in Pakistan.There had been several in the past and they never faced so much opposition by punjab. It is RACISM, Mr.Musharaaf’s parents migrated from India, Punjabi wants President from Punjab not a mahajir. This is a fact that all powerful position in Baluchistan are held by Punjabi, all the big bussinesses are owned by Punjabi’s.In Baluchistan our blood was sucked by Punjab for last 60 years. Nothing wrong with Musharaaf, at least he is giving us our share of Pakistan wealth, go and see youself how many big projects are in progress in Baluchistan.I ask my Baluch brothers, welcome Musharaaf, he is better then previous presidents, at least he is not racist,he is fair and he treats us not less then any other race.
Mush is taking oath. Live on Geo.
NS said in his statement that he may nominate SS for PM slot. Dont be surprised if he decides to participate himself (after getting green signal from mush). atleast i wont be surprised since he is the product of zias martial law. Can anyone ask BB and NS how much money they made in their two tenures? NS is running a huge steel factory in KSA. He also has a MAHAL there which he made after spending millions. NS and BB corruption is an open secret. The way both treated superior judiciary is also known to everybody. BB appointed her j*alas as judges ( inc the PCO CJ Dogar) and NS even brought a coup within the superior judiciary ( a 2 member bench removed CJ sajjad ali shah exactly when he was hearing NS corr*ption cases) Also the way his workers attacked Supreme Court. They think people have short memory. Believe me they are no different than musharraf!!!!!!!!!!!
@ nota
there are some typos overthere:
“He should know that Pakistan wasnt made by the army! Nations are NOT found on the basis of militias and armies. Armies exist if nations exist.”â€?
I am just saying that nations, to exist, don’t need armies but armies to exist do need nations.
Its a fact that pak army didn’t help in making pakistan. Another fact is that it didnt even help in expanding the territories of pakistan. An even bigger fact is that it DID help in decreasing the size of pakistan!
Thus our army and our people should not be in doubt anymore if there is a moment that pakistan needs to be saved then it will not be these pak army men. If ever ( GOD FORBID THREE TIMES) we need to press the nuclear button it will not be these generals but a civilian! Because these generals have long been sold to the someone else!
PJ:
I wish you could say all this in your TV program.
71, east pakistan, how could Mush say that without army country can’t exist?
@ PJ mir
are you the real PJ mir or just a fan of his. cos your show seems to have a pro mush/establishment inclination unlike your comment here
@PJ Mir
Completely agree. Let’s look at a recent example. What did Saddam’s army achieve? How long did they last against the aggressors? Compare that to the freedom fighters, so called “insurgents”, fighting the occupation? Look at Palestine? Or take the case of Vietnam. Armies are good for nothing but oppressing their own or carrying out aggression against others. Ayaz Amir once offered a very realistic solution: Hand every citizen an AK-47 and get rid of the army. That would be much cheaper and a lot more effective at defending the country.
No correction was needed as my mind had corrected it automatically
But I must give credit where due. Ours is certainly the most successful at conquering their own land (they might be second to Burma/Myanmar, I don’t know but they certainly have lost less territory). Sometimes I really feel like sending our generals a compass each.
P.S. Show me an army officer and I will show you a real-estate agent!
@nota,
Thanks for the story on US doubts over NS…very significant…
So what options NS has?
I think, he will have to start by acknowledging to himself that his past is such that it will haunt him for some time to come. He was a product of Zia’s marshal law; he did act undemocratically on many occassions; invaded SC; came close to imposing his brand of sharia and calling himself ‘Commander of the Faithful’. All this, and some nore stuff, must be acknowledged.
Having said all this, in the last few months he has shown hismelf to be on the path of reform. It can still be doubted how much of his recent stance is out of his ‘conversion’ to democratic principles and how much is beacuse of his personal dislike of Musharraf. But one can give him benefit of doubt on this.
Now, I think, he can take some steps that will in fact turn the US critique into his advantage. He should realise that no matter what he does he will never become USA’s darling. Yet, he cannot afford to be their enemy. He should seek a stance that is inline with the US in principle but not in tactics.
More specifically, I think, he should now get out of this APDM farce and just create an alliance with IK. In IK he will find an articulate spokesperson as well. He must also promote some women in his party and let them speak to media (in English). Very diplomatically, he should start contrasting US’s attitude towards him and towards BB. He should start ’suggesting’ that this difference indicates who will come to power though US backing and who will come to power through peoples’ backing. I am sure that as soon as the US media will realise that their critique is only making NS more popular they will stop.
Finally, I think, NS should join IK in botcotting the elections. They should now concentrate on deligitimising elections. If they can refrain Paksitanis from casting votes that will be their victory. If through their efforts the turn out in the elections goes significantly below ‘normal’ Pakistan voting turn outs, that will be their moral victory - as if people have implicitly spoken for NS/IK. Then even though he will be out of parliament he will be the effective opposition.
However, all of this requires two things in abundance, and I am not sure NS has them. One, it requires statesmanship and two it requires patience. Cowasjee once called NS ‘ghadera’ and unless he now has changed enough not to deserve this tag, it is unlikely that he will be able to utilise the situation to his favour….but then one must always be prepared to be surprised…
Tipu
A nation can exist without and army…there are several examples (e.g costa rica)…but no nation can live without constitution and without independent and free judiciary…
Soviet Union had the largest and mightiest army of all…today there is no soviet union…it died because the law was might is right….did the army save soviet union?
there used to be a second half called East Pakistan…today it is called Bangladesh….could our army save it….No they were directly responsible for it… why same issue no law , no constitution…just the danda of Army….
no army has ever saved a law less land…. only law & justice can save a nation….
“PEN IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD”
@tipu
very nice comments about NS
@ Ahmed Bhai
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7116290.stm
Read the quote of mush there:
“Without this army, the entity of Pakistan cannot exist” - Musharraf
I ask you all, kiya yeh watan in gernalo key baap ki jageer hay! my grand parents gave their lives for this country, to have democratic muslim state where civilians rule…..we didnt give up our lands and fought with hindus for the sake of army….we had very good relations with many hindus and sikhs!
Tho Tho aisay pakistan per!
The fact is: Imran Khan is boycotting election coz he knows at this time he will not even win a seat in any assembly….so he is afraid and thats why he didnt submit his papers for election.
if they decide not to boycott then Imran will give money to PML N to give him a seat so that he can enter into assembly. this is the fact and you all have to accept
This quote “baap ki jageer” sounds reallty funny but reaally think about it. I first heard this in a rally in lums…..one guy said this and then hundreds of people supported his emotions….on the face of it this phrase wouldn’t be heard at a lums rally but people this is the reality…
And I know most people that visit this site are anti establishment people…mostly NS and IK supporters because u feel left aside…MMA people really dont come here…..they wouldnt know about this site….and PPP people dont need to come here because they already know that they are winning the elections and they even know whose their future pres and pm.
So i suggest u people to pray for yourself……and starting making some ppp friends because u will need it, at least I khalid butt will need some ppp friends ab tu yeh establishment ki party….hayey hayey kiya din aa gayey hain khalid butt!
Gen( retarded) pervez musharraf takes oath as the president. mean while, many civilians killed in swat. many protesters laid down bodies on roads and protested.
This is now getting preposterous, a step above than rediculous. The mad ex-general has made the law and constitution an absurdity. So he has now created so many holes in the law and constitution everywhere that it will take a giant effort to fill those holes. After this mad ex-general has left bright minds of supreme court (both lawyers and judges) will have to sit and resolve so many questions of law.
1. First and foremost is if a decision by the larger bench is given against an extra-constitutional measure can it be over-turned (revised) by the supreme court which came into being because of that extra-constitutional measure. So this first time in the history of Pakistan that a 7-memeber larger bench of a real supreme court had given a verdict against the PCO , and then another 8-member bench of a PCO supreme court over turned that decision.
2. At the moment de-facto basic law in the country is PCO , which says country will be run “as nearly as possible” according to the constitution. Question is can “As nearly as possible” be considered as constitution? This is a very important question of law? So for example if the mad ex-general has taken oath as per the schedule 3 of the constitution in accordance with “as nearly as possible” , but can it really be called under the constitution. There is no such prescedent where you apply the nearst possible law when the law actually is non-existent.
So today mad ex-general oath is absurdity of absurdities. This will and can not be considered anything. As a matter of fact today he is nothing under any law of Pakistan.
Since he did not take oath under the de-facto basic law (PCO) of Pakistan, he is now nobody in the eyes of law in Pakistan.
Khalid Butt @old PJ Mir
Well everyone is welcome here - if they dont that is their problem - and this forum would keep on working even if they dont come - because rest of the world comes here - ISI monitors this site - Washington and London and West monitors this site - so dont worry about that
@Gulzar - rather than sittingn front of computer and making these comments - just go to Mianwali, Hungu, tribal areas and even Lahore - you would see for yourself - I know you are a highly respected political analyst and your pearls of wisdom are really very well appreciated - May I suggest if you dont mind that you give these pearls of wisdom to Imran also - you can contact him through website - http://www.moveforjustice.org
Insan ko utni hi baat karni chahye jitni us ki auqat ho - uss say barh kar nahi
Pakistan in the last 8 years has sinked to such depths of moral and ethical deparavity that it now hurts. There were bad and corrupt intellectuals and learned persons in Pakistan before as well, however they using at least their mind will be able to give at least some reason to their irrational acts. People like “justice” munir , will write “doctrine of necessity” at least making a logical argument.
But at the moment we have hameed do*ar like people along with buffoon like malik qayyum who have made Pakistan’s law a laughing stock for the whole world.
Every newspaper in their editorial have condemned Musharraf saying that without army Pakistan cannot exist
If that was the case then why did we lose 1971 war and why did Army lay arms in Dhaka
If that is the case then why did Soviet Union Break up
If that is the case then why did Army soldiers - 250 of them - lay arms to mere half trained Civilian Taliban
Army and Musharraf should know - that existence of Pakistan is because of rule of law and consitution and becuase of people of Pakistan
@ nota
Regarding the news item that you posted, US and Bush are liars of the nth order! Religious parties with NS. How about Musharraf and his romance with MMA? How about MMA getting more than they deserved and making the government in NWFP? Double faced b@$^@^*s! No fan of NS but I think in his entire life the only thing he did worth anything was the culmination of nuclear program. And it is just like America to think for themselves everything to be right and the same things to be wrong for others.
@ Gulzar
If Imran ever had a chance of winning a seat in elections, it is now. He has never been this popular before. From the “stardom”poit of view (regarding his arrest and his vocal speeches) as well as for the work he has done in his consituency. So this analysis of yours, at least, does not make sense at all.
Stubborn as a mule: Benazir
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=11440
Comments of PPP and MMA politicians on Musharraf’s stepping down as army chief.
Other people in PPP talk more sense then BB. Why don’t they knock some sense into her as well? She is getting as good as Fazlu at double talk.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=11443
I do not understand why some people want to give third chance to BB or NS to ruin this country of our again….even though both have failed twice before.
Another interesting article describing why the mad ex-general last speech.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2007/11/071128_mush_finalanalysis_rza.shtml
“The words were out of the powerful general’s control”
“His voice was heavy and there was sense of insecurity in his eyes”
This was the man who said
“maray jain gay … sab maray jain gay”
“They won’t know what hit them”
@Zenith - the problem is that we are not 53rd state - believe me we would have more rights if we were 53rd state under American consitution rather than under this PCO - we would be better off as 53rd state rather than army state. Then no one would like to go to US at all because you could get everthing here lol.
This is what Europen Union is doing. They have got 27 members now and now a person in Estonia has same benefits that in Germany or France or UK. So now on one has to smuggle from those areas to UK - they can come and go freely and that is helping everyone in their economy and integration.
Have you realised that whereever there is whiteman - they tend to integrate areas like USA, Canada, European Union and Australia while whereever they have gone to rule and then come back they divide it in small pieces and they leave such irritants behind so that these small kingdoms forever fight between themselvels.
Now they are going to divide Iraq. The first divided India then Pakistan and now they are after division of further Pakistan.
@Khan of pro Pakistan - no one is giving third chance ot NS or BB - all we are saying is that restore the judiciary, media and consitution, hold free and fair elections and let the blood@y people of Pakistan decide what they want - cant you understand this simple logic. If you dont like them then dont vote for them and you are free to cavas against them.
Though I am depressed , yet I feel that there are people who are doing what they should be doing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2007/11/071129_lahore_lawyers_protest_zs.shtml
A good summary of Musharraf’s nice year rule:
http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=83337
typo: “nine year rule”
Now Pervez Musharraf become a civilian President……..I hope he should be more honest and fair in running the country specially towards BB & NS party. ameen
Rehman Malik says that Musharraf has shown courage by doffiing off the uniform and that he would be acceptable for next five years as President - now we know why PPP is deviod of any morality if it has guys like him in their fold. Shame on BB for having this tout Rehman Malik in your fold just because with him you minited millions of dollars - shame on you
If Aitazaz even now doenst understand - then Aitizaz ka Allah hi hafiz
The tyrant government has taken cars, house maids and drivers away from the heros of Pakistan. CJ Iftikhar Chaudary youngest son is seriously ill, Justice Nasir-ul-Mulk mother is seriously ill and she can not walk without support, some of the judges take thier kids to school on foot every morning. They walk a kilometer to get the taxi in front marriot hotel.
Source : BBC
@chussein
good observations…
I think, it is now imperative that we start to see our problems in global context. There was a time when local problems and politics were just that, local. In the colonial context it became important to see issues in international - atleast colonised/coloniser- context. Now, in the global world it is important to understand issues in global context.
What is happening in Pakistan - dictorial rule/ intrusion of global capitalist/ etc - is not unique. The same plot is repeated - with different characters - in various countries from Latin America to SEAsia. Anyone familiar with the writings of people such as Noam Chomsky, John Pilger, edward Said, Iqbal Ahmed (yes, the little knowm great paksitani scholar/activist), would know that ills of pakistan are the same as the ills of so many other countries.
Marx had said, ‘Workers of the world unite’. Today, really we need a global consciousness to understand the level of control and exploitation. we need to becaome class conscious at global level and see that developing countries are being oppressed as a class.
Tipu
We should learn lession from Iraq……
Saddam Hussain a lot better then presently democratic elected political leaders of Iraq
Keep the Musharraf otherwise I am worry about my country too.
OATH of President:
(In the name of Allah, the most Beneficent, the most Merciful.)
I, ____________, do solemnly swear that I am a Muslim and believe in the Unity and Oneness of Almighty Allah, the Books of Allah, the Holy Quran being the last of them, the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace be upon him) as the last of the Prophets and that there can be no Prophet after him, the Day of Judgment, and all the requirements and teachings of the Holy Quran and Sunnah:
That I will bear true faith and allegiance to Pakistan:
That, as President of Pakistan, I will discharge my duties, and perform my functions, honestly, to the best of my ability, faithfully in accordance with the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and the law, and always in the interest of the sovereignty, integrity, solidarity, well- being and prosperity of Pakistan:
That I will not allow my personal interest to influence my official conduct or my official decisions:
That I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:
That, in all circumstances, I will do right to all manner of people, according to law, without fear or favor, affection or ill- will:
And that I will not directly or indirectly communicate or reveal to any person any matter which shall be brought under my consideration or shall become known to me as President of Pakistan, except as may be required for the due discharge of my duties as President.
May Allah Almighty help and guide me (A’meen).
—————————————–
This bas*ard does not have any conscience. It is obvious that he negates his oath :
“perform my functions, honestly, to the best of my ability, faithfully in accordance with the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and the law”
How can we believe that he:
“believe in the Unity and Oneness of Almighty Allah, the Books of Allah, the Holy Quran being the last of them, the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace be upon him) as the last of the Prophets and that there can be no Prophet after him, the Day of Judgment, and all the requirements and teachings of the Holy Quran and Sunnah”
This is digusting, he is solemnly swearing to God , that he will perform his duties according to the constitution of Pakistan, and fu**** ba**** does know that he has himself put in abeyance the same constitution.
Ladies and Gentlemen, how can you believe that he is a muslim, or he believes in day of judgment or anything for that matter.
Forgive me for using bad words I am very angry today.
In the old parlance, Pervez Musharraf is “our s0n0fabit*h”.
@khan of pro pakistan
is he yours s0n0fabit*h too?
or vice versa?
P.S. Please accept my apologies though if you are as low in intellect as Musharraf.
Khan of Pro Pakistan - you should ask this from those Iraqis whose fathers, brothers, sisters and sons were ruthlessly killed by Saddam. His sons used to have lions and whoever dared to oppose them they woud feed that person to lion.
Just because situation in Iraq is worse doesnt mean Saddam was right - it is becuase of stupid policies of USA and now they are pursuing same policies in Pakistan through Musharraf - and look whats happening in Pakistan
It is not because NS and BB did eight years ago - but the way Pakistan is on brink of civil war is because of Musharraf and company
so try to use stupid logics and convince us
all we want is RULE OF LAW which can only be ensured BY JUDICIARY WHICH DECIDES ACCORDING TO LAW AND CONSCIENCE.
Pakistan did not get independence by efforts of Army but through the struggle pioneered by Jinnah who was a lawyer and through legal struggle.
WE WANT RULE OF LAW - everything and everyone is under consitution of Pakistan even Pervez Mushrraf.
Something else was there in the ceremony of ex-general’s removal of skin yesterday.
read here
http://daily.urdupoint.com/todayNewsLive.php?news_id=50507&page=1&page1=2&date1=2007-11-29&cat_id=2
Here is Nasim Zehra article on Musharraf - before in mind that she is associated with Tehrik Insaf and few days back she was writing against Musharraf but now she is priase for her like Irshad Haqqani.
They are people who sell themselves for anything.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=83334
Big names in yellow journalism
1. Irshad Haqqani
2. Najam Sethi
3. Nasim Zehra
4. Aftab Iqbal
5. Nazir Naji
Guys could you add more names also.
Here are few additions:
6. Shereen Mazari
7. Ardsher Cowasjee (he must be at top as he committed palagiarism too, intellecually corrupt as well )
8. Kamran Khan (proven to be on ISI payroll)
9. Shaheen Sehbai (Sold himself to ex-general after being black-mailed)
10. Mujeeb-ur-Rahman Shami (even you can buy him , his rates are very low)
List is still incomplete.
Oh I forgot the others ones whose are famous
1. Hamayun Gohar (Line of Fire fame)
2. Ikram Sehgal
Turkish President Gul on visit to Pakistan ‘at the invitation of Mush’
http://www.dawn.com/2007/11/29/top13.htm
it looks the Retarded General wants to be airlifted asap to his Palace in Istanbul, before the people of Pakistan take off his ‘Khaal’
Doffing of uniform and oath of president are all irrelevant.
The real issue that will determine the destiny of Pakistan is the restoration of independent judiciary.
The present kangaroo courts are nothing more than personal servants of mush.
If anyone of you has contacts to nasim zehra http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=83334
please correct her that Gen. Mush is not the only one who left uniform to become civilan president. Gen Ayub Khan was the first who did so.
Explanation:
The term “our s0n0fabit*hâ€? was used for the dicatators of Latin America, whose atrocities america uses to ignore because they supported america against Communism, it was used by US secratery of state who said:
“He may be a “s0n0fabit*hâ€? but he is “our s0n0fabit*hâ€?.
So whoever is supporting mad ex-general at this time is basically saying:
“He may be a “s0n0fabit*hâ€? but he is “my s0n0fabit*hâ€?.
Hope this clarifies.
Guys there is an email circulating these days - I am sure you would have also got it - it alleges that Geo has been sponsored by Jewish lobby and its sole purpose was to cause instabilty in Pakistan - I think that was the biggest joke ever I heard. ARY and Aaaj were showing more than that and yet they have been restored. It also alleges that NS had provided money for CJ campaign and that money was coming in to fund the struggle of lawyers.
This is latest attempt of ISI to discredit the struggle for democracy.
Rehman Malik was involved in oil for food scandel with BB and minted millions of dollars and now that money is being used in Pakistan for coming to power. One thing I know - if BB comes to power she would be more ruthless than the last regime. I am not implying about support of last regime but just trying to elaborate the mindset of BB. The way she changed her stance regarding judiciary and Musharraf.
Remember guys - she was the one who said that Musharraf is not acceptable as president
She was the once that CJ Iftikhar is real CJ
Why is she quiet now?
REason is very simple
America does not want that judiciary, media or parliament should be powerful in Pakistan because that would empower people of Pakistan and that is the last thing they want.
So if a new goverment is elected which is against wishes of America - they would make an example of that goverment like Hammas - they have their Mahmood Abbass in form of Musharraf as President.
@Chussian
i agree with your comments and hope that people of pakistan can understand what is best for country in long run- and that is not accepting any illegal acts like overnight imposition of martial law/emergency and removal of judges.
This makes restoration of judiciary to 3 Nov stage as our prime objective. Any party that compromises on this should be rejected.
PPP Jayalas please be honest with yourselves and the country and dont let your leader ruin it. You will not gain anything from her coming into power just for the sake of it, and infact your generations will suffer if you let BB gain personally.
Remember the turbulant time we have faced recently was bravely faught by middle class people of pakistan ie lawyers and judiciary. Dont let their sacrifice go wasted….They did not fight this war on behalf of all of us Pakistanies, to achieve short term objectives of only getting Mush to hang up his uniform and hold (farce) elections….. We need to look at long term interests of Pakistan which is restoration of judiciary.
The whole world must be laughing at us knowing and fully understanding why Mush imposed emergency. His only objective was to get rid of independant judiciary so he could take up Presidency…..
Now the world media is laughing at our faces ….read the comments on sky news about our judiciary which says ‘Abdul Hameed Dogar, the chief justice Mr Musharraf hand-picked after purging the Supreme Court when he imposed emergency rule on November 3, administered the oath’
Musharraf today in his speech said that West should not expect that teh democracy, civil liberties and human rights it got over centuries can be introduced in Pakistan in just over few years
He forgot to say that the first Charter of Human Rights was brought by Holy Prophet peace be upon him.
His assertion is typical of a dictator who gives reasons for their illegal acts.
I have only one question to ask from Musharraf and his cronies and his supporters.
If you accept that he can break Pakistan Consitution for circumstances that were necessary - not once but twice - then do you give the same right to every Pakistani to break the law whenever THEY DEEM IT IS NECESSARY. If you want that a policeman should challan a person who breaks red light on the road then why do you support Musharraf when he breaks the supreme law of the land.
Today Musharraf feels he is safe but tomorrow when he is not in power and he has to face the court - would he honestly feel safe with the same judges he has appointed
other than facing courts in future an imminent question is; Will he feel safe with the new COAS he has appointed? particularly when new COAS is regarded as very professional and there is resentment in army command particularly lower levels of actions by Ex-Gen Mush?
@pejamistry
“Explanation:
The term “our s0n0fabit*h� was used for the dicatators of Latin America, whose atrocities america uses to ignore because they supported america against Communism, it was used by US secratery of state who said:
“He may be a “s0n0fabit*hâ€? but he is “our s0n0fabit*hâ€?.”
A little correction: America did not ignore their atrocities because they supported america against Communism. They were committing those atrocities at the behest of America to suppress their own people so American corporations get access to their raw materials without these “miscreants” shouting “Human Rights!” and turning it into an embarrassing situation. Most of those generals and paramilitaries were trained at the famous “The School of Americas” aka “School of Assassins.” Recently its name has ben changed but their work goes on.
“War against Communism” aka “Cold War” was just a cover to hide behind and sell those acts to the public, to keep them scared and willing to give up their rights and ignore those atrocities as a necessity. Same way “War on Drugs” was used. Same way “War on Terror” is being used today.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just went through website of JI. Links to some interesting (although sad) audio [Chacha vardi landha kyon nahi etc] & video about ['Lal Masjid Incident'] are given below:
http://jamaaturdu.org/audio/default.php
http://jamaaturdu.org/watchvid/default.php
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mush claims he has a silent majority with him. To me it seems from silent majority he means ‘dead dictators’ of history?
To me Mush is already finished, as his claim that his wardi is his ‘khaal’ has already been taken off by pakistani awaam…. the rest of him will be collected by Turkish PM on his next visit due this sunday! Congratulations…..
Malek - silent majority means graveyards of Pakistan - those poor souls who cannot speak for themselves.
This guy has a great audacity of rubbing salt on his own people’s wounds. He is no doubt a psych@opath
aoa
silent majority who want to do things to you that you cant even imagine. walk on the streets of islamabad/pindi without your entourage and you will find out.
what i cant understand is if someone has so much hatred against him how can he still wish to remain in-charge? Even Mush’s own family is against him, eg his only son Bilal Mush has never visited him in Pakistan and Mush have to travel to US to see their son and grandchildren….even Bilal is disowning his father! (although there may be a question mark if he is the real father??)
I suppose chussian comments resolve this mystery…… he is a psych@opath
well said @aftab
There is a silver lining in the current situation of Pakistan, historicall establishment (read army) has been able to control the situation in Pakistan in 1-6 months. I’ll start with 1977 (will discuss 1971 later).
1. After 5th July 1977, army had an uncontrollable situation, they were very much afraid of Bhutto popularity however by December 1977 , they had a firm grip on the situation in Pakistan. They had bought 90% of public opinion makers , all the rest were in prison. Court judges , print media were under complete control by December. As a matter of fact they got enough time to keep the Bhutto in prison till April 1979 and displayed there firm grip on Pakistan by hanging him on 4th of April.
2. In 1988 it started in May 29th, there was chances of situation getting out of control due to presence of BB, however apparently general zia displayed his control of the situation but on august 17th , establishment was able to get rid of zia and again succeeded in getting firm grip by getting BB in government without having big fears. So that situation last only from August 17th till December 2.
3. During 1989 - 1999 army always succeeded in controlling both BB and NS dimissals with in 3 months without big problems.
4. In 1999 mad ex-General again displayed his complete control of situation by sending NS out of the country, there were only few months of trabulance because of Kalsoom Nawaz however the situation was in complete control.
This is for the first time in history that army is showing its furstration in controlling the situation. If I take the date of 9th March as the start date then it has been more than 8 months and situation is till uncertain. And civil society is showing such high resilience and resistance. Judges are refusing to bow down, some of the media is still out of control, there is no control on both BB and NS. Even they are unable to control IK whose popularity is increasing day by day.
It seems to me that for the first time army generals might be thinking to keep away from this situation.
@chussain:
I can see a Ministry for her in the near future!!!
Naseem Zehra’s last para (reproduced below) was hilarious. Note she is using present tense.
“But it is different now as he adorns his civvies. Pakistanis, with a vibrant and independent media, is on an irreversible one-way journey towards constitutional democracy and rule of law.”
No one is using the word “if” elections are held, means that they are using the word “Boycott” as a stunt, may or may not be, but more likely just for stunt.
But one thing is clear, BB is on solo flight dreaming to be 3rd time PM as she knows rest of the parties are not united yet. NS having photo shoots with Judges & Lawyers to promote SS to be the next PM(trying his level best to negate JHs efforts & rise). This is a stunt to promote SS.
As we all know NS in his last tenure that he forced one chief to resign & fired the next one to throw us in mess, from where when we would recover, God knows better. We can’t bet about his decision-making.
Lets when these stunts would end & we can see some clear pic.
@mazhar
Naseem Zehra’s email is given at the end of the piece. It is nasimzehra@hotmail.com.
@pejamistri
@chussain
Hope you have read the paper I had posted a link to a couple of times. If not, then please do so as it will explain a lot and name a few more names you haven’t thought about:
Excerpt: Zionist Mercenaries in Pakistan’s Secular Press
Complete Paper in PDF
i cant understand why BB is not supporting boycott of elections as she has very little chance of becoming PM?
1- there is still a ban on 3rd time PM per constitution?
2- 58 2B is still in place which means Mush can dismiss assemblies if BB does not toe the line. there is a big possibilty as BB did not get on with his own party elected President Leghari?
3- if NS takes part in election it will be a hung parliament, and there is more chance of reconciliation between NS and PMLQ (Lota Party)
4- If NS does not take part in elections Mush can rig the elections and bring in PMLQ?
If BB still refuses to boycott elections that means either BB has very promising inside deal with Mush/US or she is ready to compromise her party for uncertain personal gains (bye bye jayalas - thanks for your sacrifices)
Or the answer could be both of the above!
In case of Boycott, who would be the winner?
civil society.
But the question is whether our politicians can tolerate a powerful civil society or not?
Now that Mush has taken off the uniform and he is running around naked….
Real CJ aiye gaa 6 number lagaye ga
Awaam Mush ko chowk mein phansi lagaye ga
http://pkpolitics.com/2007/11/29/musharraf-take-oath-as-civilian-president/#comment-31409
Anyone thinking these forthcoming polls will not be rigged then think again! Shaukat Aziz, Chaudhary Shujaat and ex-federal ministers were all present at the oath taking ceremony of the so-called civilian president.
What does a care-taker set up mean? It means that no ex-ministers (even ex-prime ministers should be seen to have any sort of exposure whatsoever. Here no such thing is happening nor will the naive public ever see it happening; so wake up folks and get ready to endure the same or similar sort of set up for another 5 years!
The moronic & mumbling Chaudary gave a statement yesterday that the emergency will be lifted before the elections; this he said while allocating plots to some lota (I imagine) journalists yesterday. I ask in which capacity is he undertaking these social responsibilities - certaily not philantrophy!
The lawyers and the journalists know all this too well and hence are continuing their sustained opposition to the emergency (martial law) and extreme oppression.
My question is why can’t the politicians? Is Imran the only one who has a conscience. Please stop arguing for or against NS/BB et all. There is a colossal fraud about to be pertuated upon a people and we should stand united for a common cause - rule of law, restore the judiciary, support the boycott of the political parties and boycott these sham elections…no two opinions about it!
We must do what is necessary to marginalise this regime and its nefarious designs by getting rid of it somehow. I don’t see the country sustaining another 5-year term when its confronted with such major issues both on the inside and the outside.
Only a sense of purpose and utter sincerity by completely new leadership can pull us out of this national abyss or else engage your seat belts on and get ready for the roughest ride of your lives.
The regime may be complacent that it is a self-created abyss and when the power eturns with them they will remove the planted threats. Karachiites would remember the extreme fear eminating out of the “Hattoura (Hammer) group� in the Zia days, where an insane and still unidentified group used to break into people’s homes at night and hack & crush its victims in their sleep for no reason at all! There were no valuables taken and no apparent motive. Wa-Allah-ho-alam without much proof I can say who could be other than an inside intelligence job..their sole aim was to spread fear, which they did quite comfortably. I still remember people were just possessed with that fear. Where did the group disappear, no one ever got caught (please correct me if I’m wrong).
My point is that one must ask the question “who is to gain from any event?�. The regime at that time was able to crush any sort of public resentment. Expect the worst from insiders the likes of the Mir Sadiqs & Mir Jaffers.
We want some loyal dedicated new faces to come up if not now then soon in the future and they should undertake a massive clean up drive both inside and outside the govt. machinery including the IB, ISI and the general military.
This can only happen with a srong and independant judiciary which will empower an honest government for the entire Pakistani poulace not just a certain section/group/province/elite/feudals.
This is the water shed and we shouldn’t be occupied in taking sides and arguing amongst ourselves…we ought to serve Pakistan’s immediate interests first. The federation is at stake and we are rapidly moving towards total anarchy, chaos and even a bloody civil war.
May Allah (swt) bless us with wisdom and guide us to take righteous steps for the sake of Pakistanis - One & All. May He (swt) be pleased with our actions and and may He (swt) in His Devine kindness and generosity keep us away from All hidden & unhidden evil. Ya Allah please expose All evil faces with hidden agendas, so we can take them down for ever and thus liberate our innocent people from all oppression.
Usher us into a new era of brightness, of brotherly love, faith, truth, tolerance, kindness, empathy, unity, discipline, health & prosperity. So we can leave behind a legacy for our kids and future generations! *Ameen sum Ameen*
Read poulace = populace
Sorry for the typos my keyboard is dying on me and eats some alphabets, maybe new batteries are needed.
Just like we need new leadership in our country and old real independant judiciary. Real Chief Justice aiye gaa 6 number lagaye ga! *smile*
Poor Imran was right, he said any politician who doesn’t talk about reinstatement of judiciary and wants to take part in these sham elections is merely after power & will not bring about any change in the status quo.
aoa
you don’t need academic qualifications for common sense, just a hint mush use some of that common sense and stop this zulm on your own people.
Any news on APDM meeting..
Don’t forget guys, boycott would make civil society more powerful & for the time being I don’t think that any politician except IK can tolerate strong & powerful civil society.
So its not about boycott but about civil society, let see who will join IK to face powerful civil society.
There is no reason for anybody to care about civil society.. They are numerically not enough to tilt the balance in an election either way nor are they vociforous enough to mould the public opinion..
@pejamistri
@chussain
Another worth reading article is
Behind the Façade of Israel-Pakistan Rapprochement
Some of the names it will add to your list are:
Waleed Ziad
Shahid Javed Burki
Irfan Hussain
Jaffer Bilgrami
Seeme Gull Hassan
Husain Haqqani (whose wife and daughter just got PPP tickets)
Tashbih Sayyed
Akbar S. Ahmad
Some of the above names might not be familiar to most but they ought to be. The article is certainly a must-read. Here’s what it tells us about Hussain Haqqani:
Whereas PIPF is actively vying for visibility, other groups prefer operating behind the scenes. The Washington, D.C.-based Hudson Institute has spawned its own set of think-tanks with a curious mix of neoconservatives and Pakistani elites. Husain Haqqani, a former Pakistani diplomat and adviser to three Prime Ministers is now the co-chair of Hudson’s Centre on Islam, Democracy and the Future of the Muslim World. The Centre was established by Hillel Fradkin, a neocon signatory to a Project for New American Century, letter to the President urging a war against Iraq, and equating the Palestinian Authority with Al-Qaeda.
Haqqani’s association with the Zionist-right is not recent. In 2004, along with Stephen Schwartz – a neocon pundit who writes for the ultra-right FrontPage Magazine, Weekly Standard and National Review – Haqqani co-founded the Institute for Islamic Progress and Peace (IIPP), tasked with the neocon project of “religion building�. Their repertoire included attacks on US based Muslim advocacy groups such as the Islamic Society of North America, the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) and the Muslim Students Association. Critics of Israel were hit with the familiar “anti-Semitism� charge. During a tour promoting IIPP, they advised members of a Jewish advocacy group and the Jewish Community Federation that “[t]he Jewish lobby has to organize, write letters, and continue to contribute to politicians to counter the Saudi lobby, which has extraordinary influence in Washington, D.C.�
Like Irfan Hussain, Haqqani also feels the repression of Palestinians is insufficient reason for the continuing opposition to normalization of relations with Israel and instead ascribes it to the “anti-Semitism� that is “so deeply rooted�.
Mush has always been very weak. One call from his Masters and U-turn on foreign policy. One call from Saudis and NS is back. One call from Washington and BB is back.
Sala Aik Phone, General Ko Heejra Bana Deeta Hai.
Does any one know who owns “Dawn” and “The News”? Just curious as I just read him described as “one of the sickest minds that humanity has ever witnessed.”
@Kami
Baba, wo Heejra to hay hee! Shouldn’t you be saying:
“Sala Aik Phone, Heejray General Ko Nacha Deeta Hai.”
What the politicians(except IK) are thinking is not about boycott, but how to handle this emergence of civil society.
So they will try to bring old traditional politics of “hatered” rather going for politics of “harmoney”
I hope myself to be wrong, but their intial actions are showing no change.
Every country has an Army
Alhumdullila my ARMY has a COUNTRY.
What a joke.
Mushraf took the oth under 1973 constitution which he has suspended already.
What a country.
@nota
The News and Geo is the same group
Dawn is independent group established since before 1947.
@Shahid
do you want to add….
Mush took oath from Dogar, who himself did not take oath under 1973 constitution, infact Dogar took oath from Mush 2 weeks ago under PCO.
@Shahid
do you want to add….
Mush took oath from a judge, who himself did not take oath under 1973 constitution, infact the judge took oath from Mush 2 weeks ago under PCO.
Hussain Haqqani’s wife just got a special/women seats ticket from Benazir Bhutto’s PPP so go figure…
@Asif
You still hoping these politicians will somehow act against their instincts? What’s that old saying about “Kutay kee dum…”? Politics of “hatred” is the much easier path to take and in that the voter is to blame too for it saves him the trouble of thinking.
I think even if Imran Khan boycott the election we will make a history. I am sure BB will contest and if BB contest then NS won’t give her a free path. So we are again in a circular motion. Imran Khan give give them a big kick to through them out of this circle.
Regardless of our political affiliations we should talk about the rule of law which is to boycott the election till PCO is removed and SC is reinstated.
Hussain Haqani is the biggest lota of his time. He was used to be speech writer of NS and he was the one who orchestrated blackmail compaign against BB - then he was sent to Sri Lanka as Ambassador - he didint like it so he went over to BB and became her advisor. When she left he also left Pakistan and since then in Boston University he has been riducling Pakistan as much as he could. He and Khalid Hasan have been very active arranging meetings of BB with high ups in US.
@Malik
Thanks! I thought Dawn and The News were not owned by the same people so was surprised to see them listed as one. Thanks for clearing it up…
Dawn is owned by Hameed Haroon and News, Jang and Geo are owned by Khalil ur Rehman group while Nawai Waqt and Nation belong to Nizami group.
By teh way one other top yellow journalist is Zia Shahid who never loses any opportunity for a photo session with anyone and then publishes it. Recently his eldest son died and he formed Adnan Shahid Foundation and if that foundation gives a wheel chair to a needy he would make sure to get the photo published in teh paper and on the net. Aisi charity ka kia faida - hona to ye chahye kay insan eik haath say day to doosray haath ko pata na chalay
Well Pakistan is full of these characters.
Gen (Retarded) Mush is about to address the nation of course on PTV.
before the speech a Maulvi is reciting Quran ….he has long hair and i believe wearing an earing?
@chussain
Thanks for the names!
aoa
watch mush on link below
http://live.pakfiles.net/geonews/
@clhussain
I did not know about Zia Shahid but I think we should not propogate such kind of information which does not help us in any sense. Sorry no offense.
stony face Mush in black sherwani startsed speech…
there was never jamhooriat in pakisatn. i started it 8 years ago…
he wanted to get pakistan out of ‘Burhan’ for 1st 3 years. he says he held 4 posts. Pres, COAS, CE and one other….
he started introducing local govts….
stage 2 was upto 2007….during this democracy was fullyy put in place…..
this seems insane! i dont want to type anymore!
contd
he empowered women! set them up against men!
brought voting age down to 18. yeh jamhooriat ham lain hain…
media ko azadi dee. thats whu u can see dozen of pvt channels
in those 5 years i kept 2 posts of Pres an COAS….he was overseeing the provincial govt + federal
now we are in 3rd phase
“Alas that stance is yet divided and if politicians promote and shelter the law of necessity in political classes now, then no judge in future will ever risk losing the perks and luxury by refusing to accommodate the law of necessity which we claim a lot to have buried with every going decision in Supreme Court.”
from ‘Judges denial is an asset for state’
contd
talking rubbish about when he was going to take off uniform….then his plans was derailed… he got 57% votes from assembley. there was conspiracy to stop this…. terrorism started arising in this period particularly in settled areas in NWFP….
while this was happening some media elements put fire to this whcch was not acceptable for nation….for all these reasons i.e terrorism, pol uncertainty, media it was necessary for me to take exceptional steps….
Pakistan behnoo aur bhaio.
Mein nay aap koo samjya hai, kay sachi jamhooriat sirf mein hoon.
contd
so after consultations i took the step of emergency in ‘majboori’ stressed on majboori….
still he has a sad/ronda face…really stony!
m election has been declared fine by SC…elections have been announced, COAS post has been given up…now praising Gen Kiani……
i feel so bad writing this ….. sorry guys but thought u may be interested
His eyes do not go along with his face and words.
What a shame.
Are we civilised?
Emergency kee waja say dehshatgardi bhee khatam hoo gayee. kion kay woh mein hee kara raha tha.
—
Because of emergency , terrorism has also stopped. Because I was the terrorist who was doing this.
NS and Kiani have a 1 hour conversation
http://atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/IK30Df01.html
Kiani talked for an hour on the phone with former premier Nawaz Sharif, who has just returned to the country after years of exile in Saudi Arabia. Sharif assured Kiani that there is no rift between the army and Nawaz’s branch of the Pakistan Muslim League (PML) and that all bitterness is in the past. Musharraf ousted Sharif in a coup in 1999 and he was jailed for a year before going into exile.
Political reconciliation :)… the defeated general begging for truce
contd
talking about Swat mltry operation…(how selfish he is). he is thanking people of swat for co-operation (liar!!!!)
now he is talking about future! good governance, pol stability, national consensus etc…..(all seems lies and deceiving)….
guys its the first time i have written so many lies….i cannot continue any further so i am switchinh channels!! bye
Allah Nigehban
For all the people somehow a bit upbeat that Mush has resigned as COAS, just remember who’s replacing him. And I am tired of reading every report describing him as “He is a professional soldier”, using it as a complement. What the h*ll else would he be being a bl**dy general in the army? Of course he’s a “professional soldier”!!!
But that should not keep us from remembering his “work experience” at his previous job, or any of his victims.
Emergency to go on dec 16 - Mush fittay moo’n Musharraf
PCO gone by dec 16 2007
16th december 2007 … date for another breakup (God forbid) of Pakistan set by the mad ex-General.
contd
—he has just said that he wants to lift emergency and PCO on 16 DEC —–
but he will not tolerate any rukawat or boycott…and is warning parties not to boycott
Threatens people who want to go on a collision course against him.
@nota
A couple of good things also happened(blessing in disguise) in the absence of BB&NS, electronic media took over the empty field of politics & educated politicaly the masses in its own way & filled the empty space left by BB&NS.
So now with the emergence of civil society, both BB&NS finding it difficult to regain their popularity.
And the grilling of politicians by our anchors in talk shows helped the masses to differentiate the good from bad.
Lets hope to have same kina media again.
if people don’t know 16th december 1971 there was first breakup of Pakistan by previous general yahya khan
I appreciate SA for looting this country for 5 years.
Mushraf
Sakoot Dhakka 16 Dec 1971
Sakoot Mushraf 16 DEC 2007 Inshalla
Khuda mujhey hamaisha slamat rakhay - final words of fittay moo’n Musharraf’s speech
How ironic that we had 16th december 1971 and now 16th december 2007, this is not a coincidence, these generals test this nations patience. They want to tell us that we(public) might have forgotten, but they remember how to teach lesson to bloody civilians.
aoa
when he says he took decision of martial law with the consultant of commanders, industrialists etc one word came to mind they are all “crooks”, of the biggest kind.
This 16 Dec is another slap on our faces from ARMY
Can’t wait to hear from APDM meeting. any news?
Musharraf has no political acumen at all. He lasted for 8 years with a gun in his hand. He is the last person who should enter politics. He is always confrontational, never accomodates the opposition.
A person like him makes the other party dig their heals and say bring it on then. I expect APDM to boycott the polls after his bu**sh*t and aggressive rhetoric this morning and now.
Musharraf has no political acumen at all. He lasted for 8 years with a gun in his hand. He is the last person who should enter politics. He is always confrontational, never accommodates the opposition.
A person like him makes the other party dig their heals and say bring it on then. I expect APDM to boycott the polls after his bull$h!t and aggressive rhetoric this morning and now.
Any compromise with Mushi will bail him out.. Its time for all out assualt.. Hope the politicians take a cue..
I pray at least once we get an honest general. If our filthy judiciary can produce gem like Iftikhar Chaudary who washed all the sins of the judiciary why we are so unfortunate nation that we could not have single honest general?
He showed extreme concern over boycott of elections. If APDM decides to participate then he will get legitimacy.
Interestingly Aaj TV boycotted his speech. They kept playing ads instead of playing the ba$tards speech.
Good one Aaj! I wich other channels had the guts to do the same.
Now or Never.
@Rihat
Since madcow has annonced the lifting of PCO from 16th dec, MMA won’t boycott far sure, because restoration of Judiciary is not their priorty.
So now let see NS joins hands with IK or Mulla!!!!!
Allah maddad ferma……APDM ko himat aur hoosla ferma.
Now that the gung-ho commando is gone, and a sober man like Kiyani has taken over I am sure you’ll see some change.
BTW. Militants in Swat have offered to ceasefire. They say their war was with Musharraf, not twiththe army. Source: Asia Times
@ Asif
Lets hope for the best.
So for the moment:
1. Channels will remain closed.
2. Judges will remain under house arrest.
To me it seems he wants to unleash some more terror.
Also I believe that he has been given until 16th december to sort out the matters.
Peja,
\He can’t afford to release lawyers and judges. They’ll hijack the stage set for elections. Musharraf’s plan it to lift emegency just 3 weeks before elections so that everyone gets involved in electioneering.
If APDM boycotts and starts street agitation Mush will not lift emergency.
I still remember Roedad khan’s words
He is a reckless person jee, Yeh Pakistan kee eeint sai eeint baja day ga.
God forbid he is going to do so by 16th December
The b**tard has really played his cards well. Emergency and PCO will be gone on 16 Dec so no reason will remain for political parties for not participating in the upcoming elections. The International community will praise musharaf as always that he lifted emergency before election election will be free and bla bla
so general has really played his cards well. Hats off to the writer of the script(must be combined efforts of ISI MI and IB)
Why not let ISI MI AND IB themselves take part in elections coz they know so much about pak politics and are also good at it(they can play politics better than the politicians!!!!!)
Mera Aziz Hum Watano Mulk Ki Baqaa Jamhooriat men hai…….
Apparently APDM folks were waiting for Mushi’s speech before deciding on anything..
I was against the bycott, but now I think it is time for BB and NS to bycott the election immediately. He won’t be in Pakistan till 16th december if they bycott the election.
@pejamistri on November 29th, 2007 3:28 pm I pray at least once we get an honest general. If our filthy judiciary can produce gem like Iftikhar Chaudary who washed all the sins of the judiciary why we are so unfortunate nation that we could not have single honest general?
——————————————-
If civil society(both the politician & public) are doing good, none of the institutions(Army, Judiciary, bearucracy) can take over.
Our politicians have to get rid of politics of hatered, our public has to reject this kina politicians, only then we can have a good Pakistan. Otherwise the same chain will start all over again.
So it depends on us not on Judges or Generals, the future of Pakistan.
Lifting emergency and PCO on 16 Dec is meaningless. These had actually no importance or value at all since these were unconstitutional…..
Real issue is
1) restoration of judges
2) Restoration of constitution
3) Action in accordance with Constitution Artical 6 on ‘whoever’ imposed emergency and PCO
I was just wondering that if people back in pakistan give a damn to the political scenerio and dont come out on streets for protest then why are we boiling our blood here.
let them have ch shajaats and wasi zafars and let them have monster mush as there president…if they dont have any problem then who r we ….if they dont want agitation against the atrocities of a dictator and are cool with chaudharies and sheeda tallies …if they are too busy with there worldly affiars to care about the govt any more and are not sensing the damage dictatorship can cause in a long run i think they deserve it….let them have it…..
Guys dont have your hopes on kiyani….. He has got what he wanted to become the COAS of the best army in the world who has mastered to kill its own people whether in hills of waziristan or in the mosque of Islamabad.
Never the army will throw away musharaf becuase he has given so much to kiyani elevated him to the post of coas, the perks and privilages the army receives etc plus they will never make an example of there general. They just wanted the uniform issue to be resolved so now there is not a single reason for kiyani and other corps commanders to DERAIL THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS OF SADDAR SAHAB.
The amry ISI can never support restoration of judiciary coz from where they will produce the missing persons????? And ofcourse they have to abduct more people in the future so they need a freee hand…….
Can we convince APDM to boycott the election?
He really had played his cards well and left not excuse for MMA and other parties. Only Imran Khan will be left over.
I am sure these **** politician will not boycott the election. I wish if I can **** them before they decide to take part in the election.
Any News from APDM????
1973 Constitution is suspended…. but he took the oath under same constitution. Again from a judge who has oath under PCO. What a joke.
@asif
Sorry I won’t agree with you. If you are ruled by the tyrants (read army - please we were never ruled by politician, it is just an illusion), no matter how good the public is? Tyrant is going to unleash his terror because that is how he can remain in power.
Also you can trust a person who has a loaded gun in his hand , and is your enemy.
Unfortuately the generals have guns in their hand and they are enemy of the public. So either we get rid of them ourselves, or for once there comes a general who is not our enemy.
im reposting my post..
..what you guies think about it
I was just wondering that if people back in pakistan give a damn to the political scenerio and dont come out on streets for protest then why are we boiling our blood here.
let them have ch shajaats and wasi zafars and let them have monster mush as there president…if they dont have any problem then who r we ….if they dont want agitation against the atrocities of a dictator and are cool with chaudharies and sheeda tallies …if they are too busy with there worldly affiars to care about the govt any more and are not sensing the damage dictatorship can cause in a long run i think they deserve it….let them have it…..
Guys Why we are focusing our attention on Army to behave differently & not asking anything to our dear politicians to mend their ways.
We were in mess just beacuse of very very poor decision-making by our politicians. Their hatered threw us in to the mess time & again(77&99). If they can’t tolerate opposition then how our political culture will grow?
And our politicians have to mend their old ways in order to get on right path.
@pejamistri
I am not in favor of madcows, but my point is we have to mend our ways to keep them in baracks.
If we would continue the politics of hatered, what would be our destiny????????
@imran malik
i dont think it is fair….how can we justify expecting ordinary people to come out when we are sitting abroad, and these people have to earn their living and feed their children…some of them earn enough at the end of day to have a meal that evening….how can we accept them to give up even that and start protesting daily.
then its the sacrifices of lawyers and judiciary who have been fighting for last six months or so getting beaten up and locked by illitrate policemen…
then its media who have lost jobs, got beaten up…
the list is endless…. we should not leave all to people in pakistan to fight this out…. they will do their best
@pejamistri
“I was against the bycott, but now I think it is time for BB and NS to bycott the election immediately. He won’t be in Pakistan till 16th december if they bycott the election.”
Last time he was this weak, BB saved him. Now I bet you both NS-BB will lend him helping hands (MMA/MQM of course need not be mentioned). If only NS was aware of his strength right now and bold enough to use it. He will gain a lot more if he only realizes it…
THE STRUGGLE CONTINUES…..
Mush has given up quite a bit….he even looks like a loser now…..
It is one last push and Mush will be over the cliff……very soon inshallah and …defintely before 16 DEC
we as a nation would have been a lot better without army. i know there is a cliche that army is necessary for our security but think if India or America want to capture Pakistan can our army stop them. they way they are getting kidnaped in Swaat i doubt it very much. then look at their track record. have they ever won a war or conqured an inch of land except Islamabad.
@malik
if they can comout to give a reception to there corrupt bb baji…then what stops them to come out for protest..they did come out against ayub….i think ayub was way better than this mush….what is stopping them from agitating agaisnt this ugly mosnter is beyond me….
i hate mush to death…i go to washington dc or wherever there is a protest against this mosnter in my viccinity ….
i understand that there are economical constraints..but im talking about middle class. who can certainly afford to come out to protest atleast once in a month…or in aday like today….when monster is taking oath….
Whar a ARMY
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/miscellaneous/story/2007/11/071129_takehome_aisha_sen.shtml
Mush’s admission to lift the emergeny on 16 Dec shows he is under swere pressure….
a bit more pressure and this time BB needs to join in (Fazlu lota is not even required) the boycott of elections and i am sure Mush would GO….
PPP needs to get there act together and this time do something…this time for pakistan…..BOYCOTT is the word
Cleric Fazlullah’s HQ captured in Swat; five soldiers killed in N.Waziristan. (Dawn news)
Like red mosque this Fazlullah was allowed to work till they wanted him.
Don’t be too excited about BB boycoting election. The latest is, she met mad Gen. last night and agreed not to boycott the poll and not to stress to restore the SC judges.
What a hypocrate.
Fazlu on Geo Live saying he is not boycotting……. he has left no doubt
About the Geo Group .Yes they are owned by the sons of mir khalil ur rehman and I also saw him in a media seminar was pure business man ,always toed the line of Pakistan establishment and the only change is that his sons who are now running that chain with the addition od electronic media including Geo are the agents of the establishment with routes more in western world thain in pakistan .Do not be deceieved by thier resistance to Bas@@@@ d Mush .
They will always play to the tune of foreign establishment .Now they are just gaining public sympathy by standing with the Judiciary they will use this to advance foreign establihment agenda at an other cruicial time .Look Mush also deceieved the public with the Kargil issue and now have sold the kashmir issue more than Nawaz sharif.
Dawn group is also the agent of same establishment ,owned by haroon family
one haroon served as interior minster under zia martial law
althoug they claimed to be founded by Quaid i-azam but what they are doing was not in line with quaid philosphy
Good sign…..thanks god the munafiq is out of APDM. At last one good news.
********PLZ READ THIS ********************
My wife’s friend is HUSSAIN HAQQANI (boston univ ,bb party) ,he flew to pakistan along with his wife last month…he told my wife’s friend (his niece )that he has been offered some ministry from bb in the future cabinet …..and his wife has been offered a seat in senate….
piont to be noted ….hussain haqqani said that bb offered him a ministry…..
it has already been all scripted……
every thing is planned….
bb made a deal almost a year ago…she is futrue pm with mush as president…
and we are talking about bycott by pppp….