Son of a lion is a lion! Well done Ali, we are proud of you.

Musharraf is paving way for US occupation by imposing emergency and I can only hope that BB is not part of that plan. The plan has been developed by influential architects of Iraq war. US will come to save Gen Mush and Kiyani from the extremists!!! That is what Mush has been working on since he came into power to deprive Pakistan of its nuclear assets. THAT WAS THE CRIME OF NAWAZ SHARIF:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/pakistan/Story/0,,2220126,00.html

where to click? how to listen?
help please!

@ missing_

http://www.asiasociety.org/resources/pakemergency.html

@missing_pakistan
Click on this link
http://www.asiasociety.org/resources/pakemergency.html

and then you should see
“Listen on Demand (1 hr., 19 min.) ”

click on the play button beneath this line.

As one of the questioners mentioned: “these 3 lotas are trying to sell something that cannot be sold.�

The show was full of nuggets - all of them lies ofcourse.

One of my favorites… Nasim Ashraf saying that the emergency was declared so that it allowed the army to take action because the NWFP provincial govt was MMA and was not allowing the Army to take care of the problem.

Well my dear Nasim Ashraf let me refresh your memory by saying that the Pak army you are defending has repeatedly pillaged, raped and conquered its own country and people on a regular basis for the past 60+ years. Did they ask anyone’s permission to do that?

Why did they need permission to go into Swat when this was a time when they were really needed to put down a rebellion against the country ?

Why was Maulana Fazullah’s FM station network that was preaching open rebellion allowed to function after Nov 3 ( I believe it was taken down last week) and GEO and the rest of the channels shut down ?

Thousands of members of the civil society were thrown in jail. How many terrorists were arrested during the same time frame/

I think I will stop here.

Shame on these people.

pakistan cricket team is doing so badly in India but PCB head naseem Ashraf is in USA defending dictator illegal PCO..wat a bunch of losers in mushy team all liars,hypocrites and opportunist.

I wish we all young generation and student can kick the asses of these MUSH’s servants.
They are stupid creature and trying to fool all of us and foreigners. Please show them the right path thorugh any means and any channel you may access.
May Allah Bless Pakistan!!!!

One of the questions: If you are defending previous government’s actions, how can you call yourself impartial??

These three people are blaming NS, Aitazaz and a lot of rubbish and clam to be neutral and caretaker for free elections!!!

This guy Muhammad Ali Saif is a new find by the tinpot dictator , I am putting it at par with Wasi Zafar and Sher Afgan, with a little polish by the mad dictator he would definitely by pass Wasi Zafar and Sher Afgan with in few months.
I would like to give credit to mad dictator of finding such disgraces in Pakistan.

I like this Kashmala Tariq , According to Hasan Mujtaba A friend asked him , is their anything good about the dictators regime , he answered “Kashmala Tariq” , I agree with him. Sometime even dictators commit beautiful mistakes.
Read here : http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/urdu/2007/11/post_250.html

Is there a video of this available ???
i have the link to the Audio though

Open letters between Bilal (Pervez) Musharraf and Salman Ahmed…(Junoon).

From: - Salman -
To: bmusharraf@hotmail.com ; pas-discussion@lists.stanford.edu
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 6:58 PM
Subject: OPEN LETTER TO BILAL MUSHARRAF (IN RESPONSE TO YOUR PUBLIC E-MAIL TO ME)

Dear Bilal,thanks for this shared e-mail.I’ve never publicly responded to you but am compelled to do so now.I’ll respond to the public part of your criticism of my changed stance against your father’s policies.For the record, my support for your father’s vision of “enlightened moderation� was never based on any personal expectations or “marketing� (rock musicians dont usually like hanging out with military dictators) My prior public support to your father’s govt. along with that of the vast majority of Pakistanis was given in the belief that he would deliver on his public promises to fight extremism,respect civil institutions,bring accountability to corrupt politicians,open up a free and independent media and reduce the immoral gap between Pakistan’s rich and poor.The picture that you took of me with your dad was taken in 2003,when I felt that the international media was cynically and wrongly depicting Pakistan as a total terrorist state being defended by “only� one pro-western moderate Pakistani,your father.Although i was ridiculed by many for doing so,but i chose to put that picture on the Junoon website after the assasination attempts on your father in December 2003.The picture was meant to symbolise the majority support of Pakistan’s civil society for the fight against extremism and lawlessness.That picture and my support for your father’s govt (WHICH YOU WOULD VOUCH,I HAVE NEVER ABUSED FOR PERSONAL GAIN NOR HAVE MY FAMILY OR FRIENDS) was never meant to be taken as a blank check for the state machinery to run amok and start dismantling civil institutions,making deals with crooks and plunderers,treating civil servants like common criminals,kidnapping and killing innocent Pakistanis under the guise of the “war on terror� and illegally spying,torturing and jailing thousands of Pakistanis (which include national heroes,supreme court judges,lawyers,rights activists,house wives and students).

My recent op-ed in the washington post and my public disassociation with your father should not be a surprise to you.I wrote many candid e-mails to you in August and September of this year,sharing my concern about your father’s policies and his govt’s high handed tactics.You responded by saying I was being too harsh to which I reminded you that true friends are not meant to be mistaken for sycophants and cronies but are a True barometer of the public’s perceptions.You chose to ignore these warning e-mails and dismissed them as “emotionalism�.Even when you visited me while I was on tour in Canada in October,you promised that there would be no reason to impose emergency in Pakistan and you assured me that your father respects the judiciary and has spoken to the chief justice of the supreme court in this regard..Alas,even that myth has now been totally shattered.The supreme court judges are also citizens of Pakistan who have courageously tried to stick to the letter and the spirit of the law for which they are being punished by your father’s govt.Why is this so?

All that I write above is not just my view but the view of millions of Pakistanis and independent observers.I’m not writing out of spite or revenge but conveying the voice of Pakistan’s not so silent majority.As an artist I have also publicly criticized previous Pakistani rulers who like your dad made the mistake of not respecting civil society or civil institutions and I will continue to do so in the future as well.Staying silent is no longer an option,Art disturbs and artists have no choice but to listen to their conscience.

yours sincerely,
Salman Ahmad

P.S.i still have the e-mails that I wrote to you privately which reflect my public disapproval of your father’s deviation from his self confessed path of enlightened moderation,i can resend them if you’d like.

Subject: RE: [pas-discussion] Junoon
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:51:27 -0800
From: Musharraf_Bilal@GSB.Stanford.EDU
To: pas-discussion@lists.stanford.edu

I am compelled once again to share another personal anecdote, rather a saga… and apologize in advance for the length of the account. This one is about Salman Ahmed.

“…
You read heaps and write heaps
And bury your head in books
Light is everywhere but where you are
And you haven’t a clue how to reach it

Marking time in extra prayers
Climbing a minaret and screeching
Mounting a pulpit and preaching - -
All this has nothing to do with knowledge
Cryptic Sciences? Enough already!

Aleph is all you need …. Iko aleph teray darkaar
…�
Title: Aleph
Album: Parvaaz
Lyrics: Bulley Shah
Music: Salman Ahmad

Salman has been a close friend and a spiritual guide of sorts since 1998. It started with an email I wrote to Salman (got his email address from my brother-in-law) in a moment of unabashed inspiration after listening to Ali Azmat sing “Aleph� over and over again. From what I remember, “Aleph: A Call to Basics� was the subject line of that email. I was star struck when I heard back from Salman, and pursued further correspondence that developed into a friendship. My brother-in-law Asim had made Junoon’s first video ‘Sayonee,� The video, along with the amazing album ‘Azadi’ had propelled Junoon to become the best international band by Channel V in 1998. Asim went on to make videos for Junoon’s live concert at central park in 1998 (a tribute to Nusrat Fateh Ali), “Yaar Bina,� “Bulleya�, and “Saqi Nama.�

It was the live concert in NY where I finally met Salman for the very first time. I had been married six months and my wife and I drove down from Boston as typical “groupies� singing Junoon’s songs all the way on the drive over to the concert. The attached picture below will probably better articulate our “junooni� state. In the packed to capacity crowd of 20,000 at the summer stage, I had picked my wife up on my shoulders because she couldn’t see anything…. In fact a Friday Times journalist who wrote about the concert included an image of the of us swooning to the music, and captioning the picture “On Top of the World�. This was 1998, prior to the anomalous events that were to happen in my life and I remember my parents and my in-laws getting a good laugh out of the embarrassing moment caught on camera. I also remember this concert as the high point of Junoon’s fame.

So what began as a random email exchange led to a friendship that is now close to a decade old. The events of this year have unfortunately cast a shadow on the authenticity of the relationship, and I stand guarded with regard to where we stand today. Salman was one of very few individuals that I reached out to on a regular basis to bounce off thoughts and ideas, seeking guidance in managing my emotional and psychological self. He has been a source of support and inspiration, and I truly grateful to him for that. His valuable insights (Salman’s extremely well read), were meaningful for me in negotiating with circumstances that I unexpectedly found myself in. I feel that for Salman, music is a platform but I really feel he is best suited to play a bigger role in the scheme of things. I used to describe Salman as a Sufi to the core. He walked the walk and talked the talk, when it came to standing up for what he believed in. However here is where I start feeling sad and disappointed…. Because I don’t know what he believes in anymore. Please allow me to explain.

The first time my alarm bells rang were regarding the future of the band Junoon itself. I remember having a conversation in which I tried to persuade husband and wife, Salman and Samina, that since Ali and Brian were dropping out of the band, that Salman no longer use junoon’s name. Why? Because Salman’s personal musical and intellectual journey was going in a direction that Junoon’s music might not have gone, had the band and the fans stayed together. Not that I could speak for “the fans�, I was just one of them. In my humble opinion the “junoon� phenomenon was not just Salman, Ali and Brian, it was also the 1990s, the newly unleashed power of rock, and a youth bulge feeling stifled and desperately looking for change. For any one band member to unilaterally try to run with junoon might take away from the junoon experience, similar to how Matrix II and III actually ended up eroding Matrix I. Let it be, was my verdict. So many new bands had come up, who paid homage to Junoon (Noori, Jal etc.) for opening the doors, but were much better at riding the youth’s passion. In fact I made a half baked pitch to take the character “Jeem� from Junoon perhaps, and broaden its domain as being “Jeem� for “jiddojehed, jurrat, jazba� etc. not just passion ala junoon. In a shallow vein, I suggested looking at what happened to the men’s clothing store “Structure� as an example. “Express�, which was a women’s clothing line acquired “Structure� and started calling it “Express for Men� but it failed. Men simply refused to wear clothes that said Express on them because they didn’t feel it was right. I feel something similar is happening to Junoon.

The second context of the alarm bells had to do with feeling uncomfortable hearing messianic verdicts from Salman regarding my father until maybe last year, to the extent that I felt a need to discount the faith in autocracy as being able to deliver on all fronts. As Joel Polodny (current Dean at Yale, former OB professor at GSB) put it, “In the short term, performance can almost always be enhanced by foregoing logic of person and emphasizing logic of position. In the long term however, logic of person (read: vision) facilitates accountability, flexibility, and motivation. Leadership depends on a balance.� I was a bit disappointed when a picture of Salman and my father that I had taken some years back when Salman met me in Pindi appeared on Junoon’s website (http://www.junoon.com/news_archive2003.htm). Although Salman had asked for the picture, he had not indicated that it would go on the website, let alone also be credited to me publicly! In any case, I reconciled with that as no big deal.

This year though, has left me truly disappointed and hurt. If Salman feels the need to neutralize the burden of prior public contact with my father with his venomous rhetoric, I find it not just unjust but truly unfair. Looking back today, I am unable to decipher whether his motivation for prior public overtures towards my father were selfless or selfish in nature. I told him just last month in Calgary (at the Mystical Journey Tour: http://www.theismaili.org/he2-3.htm) the difference between him and Bono is that Bono wouldn’t post a picture with Bush on his own website, even if he sees the President as an instrument of change and not the personification of it.

No one is perfect, I realize. However to the extent one can, one must try to reduce one’s integrity gap which someone defined aptly as the difference between lived values and stated values.

Bilal

@Omar
Ah.. I wish there was a video. This is not something to hear , it is something to watch

@pejamistri

Actually i was a bit more interested in discussion

@ pejamistry

i don’t want to say a lot but since Kashmala sank low blaming AH of taking money from NS, I think there are few things u need to ask your friends who know her.

She never got elected. She came to the assembly through special seats. There are a lot of rumours (and some pictures) of how she made her way up!!

Thanx for da help.

Mush couldn’t find anyone better than Nasim Ashraf to represent him? There was no retired general available to lead his panel? There was no reference from either Dawn or The News but from Najam Sethi’s columns, which tells the story.

Watch mush’s latest interview to ABC News

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3935205

I think Ali Ahsan did a great job, and was exactly that panel needed, what is interesting to me is the fact that not even a single person on that panel has any democratic roots. Naseem Ashraf happens to be a personal friend of Musharaf, whom he brought over from the States, Kashmala Tariq happens to be a “personal friend” of some influential leaguers, and was elected on reserved seats for women. And Barrister Saif is a small time lawyer, who became prominent for his “pro-Musharaf” views during the Chief Justice episode, and was rewarded by being made a minister in the interim setup.

One thing I found interesting is Kashmala is less than 22 years old. She said that before her birth, her parents might be friends of Aitzaz Ahsan. Am I right?

My question how old you should be to become parliament member? I believe 18?

Kashmala is NOT 22 years old, she is about 36 (24 Jan 1972).

I think 21 is minimum age for contesting elections of national and provincial assembly.

The political and security crises there have led the Bush administration to conclude that Pakistan has become a more dangerous place than it was before Musharraf took over in the coup of October 1999.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/pakistan/Story/0,,2220126,00.html

@GM,
Thanks for both information, I would say I liked the second information that one can contest election at the age of 21

@ peja

i knew which information is more important for u:)

lol that was the dumbest thing Kashmala could have said, she is at least in her mid 30s man she sounded more dumb than Meera saying that.

You should learn the lanugage then come (Muhammad Ali Saif)

Where was he for the last 8 years, Wasi Zafar and Sher Afgan were boring sometimes.

Here is link to Kashmala tariq profile…..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmala_Tariq

@ Pejamistry

you could be very naive. How come someone have a proper educational background, know the language, belong to a decent family and come and support Musharraf on these forums? Its got to be half baked people like Muhammad Ali Saif.

I think his Mum should be charged for inciting racial hatred for naming him Muhammad (just like the teacher in Sudan).

Sorry guys I am still confused about the age factor. So I am sure Ali Ahsan is not more than 28 years old I have seen his picture. However Kashmala was suggesting as if she is of the same age as she mentioned that we (Ali Ahsan & Kashmala) are the next generation to lead the nation.

Pakistan future is bright though

This shows the priorities of our ‘leaders’. No need to send representatives to the Pakistani people, but send a bunch of clowns to New york (all paid by us) to explain our politics to Goras!!!

Ali Ahsan handed made them stick their foot in the mouth!

Barrister Mohammad Ali Saif is a perfect example of a PAINDOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

@listen
Thanks for the link. Though I was disapponted to read the profile specially the political career. I thought I am reading the show-biz career.

lol pejamistri, leave her alone man she is not where she is today based on her level of intelligence
I guess it still hasn’t caught up to her that she is in her late 30s which is not exactly “next generation”

I would like to follow these three buffoons activities in US. If someone from US could post if they had interviews with any tv channels etc.

At least Nasim Ashraf sounded like he was a little bit prepared to defend by using his logic.

But that Barrister is a true clown.

@baig
Moderator deliberately did not ask the difficult questions. Nasim Ashraf said that 61 terrorist were released by the supreme court and ironically the two judges who release those terrorists took the oath under PCO and currently may be releasing more terrorists.
His all arguments were pack of lies. And any hostile host would have taken him to the task.
But yes he was more confident in telling the lies then the other two.

More time should have been given to the audiences instead of hearing the same propaganda over and over from the Mush panel.

@Zarak

Thanks for sharing this email correspondence between BMush and Salman Ahmad.
All I can say is like father like son. If thsi family could take in criticism ina positive manner, things might have been very different today. But maybe they have a beemari of takabbur which is getting worse everyday.

going back to the email convo between salman and Mushy’s son, i wonder who the hell gave bilal the idea that his dad own’s Pakistan.

Long live Pakistan
Long live independent judiciary
Long live independent press

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20071130/wl_mcclatchy/2769787

this article exposes PCO judges.

How successfuly madcow diverted the attention of blogs & other forums from boycott issue (so that boycott cannot gain momentum).

Everybody is talking about madcow & its cronies instead of discussing where our politicians are?

Please do discuss how our politicians should behave this time & solve their issues by themselves or once again they would seek the assisstance of another madcow to sort out their differences.

Time is running out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Zarak,
Thanks for sharing the exchange, dementia is sometimes genetic.

Seriously, this guy Bilal Musharraf needs psychiatric help.

no courageous man in america, who could spray faces of lotaas like lawyer khursheed did for katuri………i wish to have black face of baristor saif

Yaar I am realy getting sick the time you discuss madcow, how you can discuss him?

Shows that we don’t have solution either…………….

When we would start thinking solutions, the less the time we would spare for solution the less effective would be the outcome. period.

As a Pakistani nation we must seek forgivness from Allah for all the sins our nations is responsible for the last 60 years.

Can’t we see we are being punihsed by Allah what we have done to this country in the name of Islam!

IK has already started addressing gatherings to pave the way for boycott. He was addressing a students gathering in Lahore.

Where are the rest of APDM parties, when they will start their street protest?

I don’t know may be it’s me but it seems the moderator didn’t let the audience ask many questions to the panel and he seems to have let them have as much time as they wanted to give there opinion.

I believe during the session he did says that he would let the audience ask the questions and then give them time to give there little speeches neither was done.

WELL DONE Ali Ahsan

We are proud of your father & May we (the pakistanis) succeed in throwing the dictator out of the office & restore Judiciary & democracy as soon as possible

As for Salman Ahmad

Thumbs up man
Keep on promoting the True feelings of Pakistanis

PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

Ali ahsan tu chetah hy yaar.sher ka bacha hy tu.

Breaking News!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

“Mairey Mutaabik� jald aa raha hai. Geo
“Capital Talk� jald aa raha hai. Geo
“Kamran Khan K saath� jald aa raha hai. Geo

who da man, who da man now

http://www.khabrain.com/pics/main1.jpg

Well done Ali.

These people are shameless. A bunch of hypocrates and liars.

was pkpolitics down?, i got afraid that Mush was up to his dirty tricks again as i was getting page not found. Admin can you please confirm?

the moderator in the beginning said that we have to be bipartisan and listen to both side’s views. so there had been an earlier program in which the lawyer community or others from the like were invited. is there any link to that program any where on the website???

Time was short but well said by Ali Ahsan. Saif is a damn liar!!!

You can hear the November 8th event at Asia Society on this link:

http://www.asiasociety.org/resources/pakemergency.html

I want to share something personal. My father was Inspector General of Police Punjab in 1977 and was removed and retired by Gen Zia ul Haq after the coup in 1977 because he had refused to give evidence against Bhutto regarding 1977 elections that Bhutto has asked the police to rig the elections which were not rigged.

Aitazaz Ahsan fought our case in Services Tribunal which he won and then the goverment went to Supreme Court and my father was reinstated with all previous arrears and increments in 1986 after Martial Law was lifted and it was because of Aitizaz Ahsan. As a family I would say that we owe a lot to him - the most important being that he helped to restore honour of my father - otherwise there were people who had said that he being a police officer must have been corrupt.

Aitizaz is a hero of our nation and no doubt we should be proud of him. Allah has given him so much that he doesnt need NS money.

Here I would like to give credit to Muhammad Khan Junejo former Prime Minister of Pakistan who got the martial law lifted and then the Supreme Court decided in my favour.

Here I would like to bring to the attention of my readers that when Muhammad Khan Junejo was removed by Zia - Benazir Bhutto instead of condeming it - instead welcomed it and I can say with full confidence that had Zia not died in crash BB would have made compromise with Zia just like she did it with Musharraf.

Nicholas Platt was biased as far time was comcerned. ali is sher jawan, well done, was your father allowed to atleast listen to you.
Nauseating verbal diarhoea by mush team mostly by Kashmala as she claims to be younger than ali ha ha

I think next time when this team moves to another forum, they would be prepared in a much more evil manner. they didn’t have answer to any cricitcal question. i wish this program be projected all over the world, although there were only Pro-Mush people in the pannel and they were just trying to distract every critical question to non-issues.
Barrister Saif… Talks Big although sold for nothing… Biggest Lota.

@Nighat
Ali Ahsan knew her for 20 years .

It seems like that almost every politician is for sale. I have just heard that PML-N is considering to particpate in the elections or rather selections because of “immense pressure” from somewhere. Maybe it is the prospect shrinking wealth

Ik is the only one major figure left now with a just stand. What will happen to Pakistan when we have such “baigharat” leaders?

/Saqib

PML(N) is finding the excuse that they have pressure from their workers for contesting elections. Even if this pressure exists, this is as much in favour of Pakistan as is Musharraf’s presence. So if PML(N) wants to have a different sense, they should forget about this lame excuse.
Although ideally I would have liked some good number of parties to decide boucot of elections, but they are leaving it to the public to fail these elections by not participating at all and arrange protests against these elections without restoration of judicary. So people get ready and don’t get away with the politics in course.

@Saqib

You have to understand if NS is unable to get a commitment from PPP, then whole boycott is meaningless. Even IK agrees that PPP does not boycott elections then General gets the legitimacy.

You have to see if Fazlu is not with him, and JI is too scared to break the MMA, as this gives them seats in NA.

If APDM boycotts election, then only NS and people of Pakistan of loose. As you sure does know PMLN is unable to bring people to roads for protest. Whatever your comment might be, but not a single person nreached to airport to receive NS on September 10th. All it means common person is not willing to get beaten up for go to Jail.

NS got welcome at Lahore cuz he was alloed to return this time, under pressure from Saudis or deal, I don’t care, but thats how he got the welcome.

Now I do believe, NS has the vote bank i.e. white collar (Read no street power), All he has to commit that he will re-instate judiciary if people give him enough seats n assembly.

I also have no hope for judges in all as Fazlu already said at one forum, that deposed judges should be let go. All this means we now have to live with turbulent times, and only wish that NS will at least in principle keeps talking about Judges.

May be he can meet with all judges or majority and they ask him to reverse APDM decision of Boycott.

As for Imran, I guess he has learned his lesson, he will be fighting his war alone, and might become a politician.

We should also remember Asghar Khan and Tehrik-e-Istiqlal, and no body knew where did it go. As we as a nation stay corrupt and I doubt anything ever will change.

Recent turn of events did improve the civil society, but that is only in Urban areas. I seriously doubt anything is changed in rural areas, where Bradari and feudals decide the fate of countyr by getting elected.

@econfused
I don’t think the situation is as disappointing as you said. Boycot by PML(N) and JI will matter a lot even if PPP and JUI(F) PML(Q) and MQM go for elections. Because I think most of the people are concerned with the restoration of judiciary. And they don’t want this issue to hang up until some political party win s and then start an effort for that. this has to be done before elections. I wonder why people are putting their morale so down as if nothing has happened in the country. There is no time to sleep or remain a silent audience.
The presence of a political party in the move for restoration of judiciary will bring more people on the streets.
And… Even if no party boycots, we should not sit by and watch. We have to support the journalists, the lawyers and all the leaders with the same stance by putting ourselves with them on the roads.
If PML(N) supporters think they can win wthout restoration of judicary, they are living in fool’s paradise. They won’t have seats more than the 2002 elections.

@ enfocused
NS will never be allowed to win a good number of seats and the news is that he and SS can be qisqulalified as they have been convicted by the courts. Mush would never allow NS to win bcoz if BB and NS and other parties join in the parliament, they can pass a no-confidence vote against Mush, so the planning of mush may be to bring on BB, bcoz that has to happen as US wants her to be PM, but mush will give her a weak majority, and PML-Q will be the 2nd largest party in the parliament, and as far as NS IS concerned his party will be given few seats, bcoz Bush the US president has said that they have apprehensions about NS.

@ Freinds
We must send as many emails as we can to people like Aitazaz Ahsan and IK and others and even to the Dumbo Duo, that is NS and SS, and let them know that we support their decision of a boycott bcoz it seems that some people back home want to gain some benfits by persuading everyone not to boycott. If everyone contests the elections, it will be an opputunity lost by us to send the army back.

@Tanweer Amjad

Well you have to tell, have you seen a single rally by any political party to restore judges?

I doubt you ever will. Lawyers will keep trying along with journalists, but PPP and Fazlu will be sitting with PMLQ in assembly.

Last time it was MMA which did the amendment, this time it will be be PML(Q) with PPP.

You have seen manifesto of PPP, I don’t see any “E” for Judiciary. You have to understand, those judges were going to throw out NRO.

I am willing to come on street with NS, if he really comes out, and trust me he won’t/ We will know after his meeting with BB.

You can go with your emotional analysis, but you keep forgettings Nazims, naib Nazims and Patwaris, which will work in favor of PMLQ.

so parties going for election

1) PML (Q) - kings party,
2) PPP
3) MMA - It is still MMA unless JI says otherwise
4) MQM
5) PPP/MQM means all of sindh with PML F etc

Parties willing to boycott

1) PML - N (realy only party which will win some seats)

So you can clearly see where 2-3rd majority is. I can wish that PMLN stays on boycott and try to keep its movement alive for next elections. It can definitely help PML N for bigger political stature in the long run.

Please give me me solid analysis instead of just a wish.

PLZ TRY TO HELP ME IN UNDERSTANDING that SHOULD WE CONSIDER ZA. BHUTTO A HERO? THE IMPRESSION THAT I GOT FROM RECENT COMMENTS WAS THAT HE WAS A VERY PATRIOTIC LEADER.

@zenith

I am personally against discussing personalities. As not matter he was a human being and not an angel.

Now having said that, I do consider that he gave the nation a real constituion. He ran into the same “illness” which is contagious to all people in power is to cling on to power for ever.

You look at Mush, he might have started as a good guy, but now he wants to stay on and on.

So Bhutto has done great many good things for Pakistan

1) Giving a voice to commoner, otherwise you might be still living under Basic Democracy
2) Constituion
3) Atomic Program

his bad deeds
1) Creation of BD. Bhutto might have not a great role in that, as Army might have been the main responsible for that.. But he was a politician and could have come to a better solutio
2) So-call rigged elections in 77, giving chance to Zia
3) FSA or FSF - dont recall which one, something to with a security force.

What is troubling me is that BB is forgetting that it was a Supreme court, which passed the verdict for her father. She should remember that and at least make an honest effort to bring back honest /independent minded judges.

A good supreme court can be safety valve from future wrong doings.

@econfused
I think for us as a nation judiciary is more important than anything.It is the main issue for all the people equal to and below the middle class. I know you ought to have the establishment to enforce the verdicts of the supreme court, but still it is the prime part.
I can not trust any of the parties to bring back the judiciary after the elections. The maximum they can do is to remove the PCO judges as well and then bring along the new judges who suit them more. While as a first task they will legitimise the ptresence of Musharraf on the Presidential seat and the emergency imposed by 2-3rd majority. Believe me they won’t have any choice other than this so as to legitimise their election as MNA or MPA.
I know elections wil happen, it will be loss to political parties boycotting the elections. But we don’t care… We need out judicary back… Don’t you think the judges who stayed steadfast in front of the dictators and sacrificed a lot don’t deserve our support whatever way we could offer, in stead of motivating the political parties for participation in election and then do something for us if they could.

Just felt like laughing when i heard Brstr Saif using words like ‘etiquettes, manners’. Ali Ahsan filled me with proud when he said in an open audience that the delegation is a bunch of liars. Their faces would be worth warching after the series of questions. i wish I could get some images from the program.

@ enconfused
A very good analysis, sir, but i guess Iam really disappointed when some people remember him as a saviour of the nation. Anyways thanks for helping me out.

Insaaf hi to nahi chahtey hamarey siyasatdan aur hamara boss siwa-aey awam k.

I hate this guy Dr. Naseem Ashraf with hole of my heart. He in his character so close to his boss as if he is replica. He has done exactly the same thing with Pakistani Cricket which his boss had done with Pakistan. He systematically destroyed Pakistani critcket in all respects. He rediculed cricket heros just like his boss rediculed all Pakistani heros, he brough bunch of thugs and buffoons in cricket management just like his boss brought thugs and clowns to rule Pakistan.

@Tanweer Amjad and Friends

Please bring along a possible way to work for judiciary. As Ch. Shujaat and fazulu puts it common people do not care about judiciary. Now we have to really ask whose fault is this?

Ch. Shujaat and Fazlu could have used their voices and tell people that a decent judiciary higher up will transform this nation. Decisions made in judiciary will trickle down and in the end will help common people.

The problem is no politician with real street power is going to boycott election. NS has made the decision, but PPP, ANP and Fazlu will force him take his decision back.

I am losing hope, when PPP, ANP and MMA is against boycott.

My heart is with Judiciary, but my mind is telling me that now we are in lost battle. May be I see glass half full, atleast recent turn of events have given us great leaders and anchors.

@econfused
This we know that even today election are held fair and free IK party wont get much seats but what I care about that we should stand on principle and contesting the election under PCO, SC deposed will be our dishonesty and a political suiside. But if today NS and IK boycott the election then they will make a history and will be remmebered with honor. One more thinf if IK and NS boycott the election and elections happens the the new parliment will be a choo chho ka muraba ( a mixture of idiots) and after two years there will be an other election.IK and NS can sweep at that time.
So dont lose hope and relax and look where you will stand in the PK history.

MMA is for the bycot except the JUI(F) ,but I am not sure if NS goes for election then MMA excluding Jui(f)will go for the bycot or not.

If we listen to Nasim Ashraf, Saif and Kasmala and analyse there words line by line then I can assure you that you will find them a big time lair. If Iknow the email adress then I can point out how bad they lied to us but there were here with weak roots and foundation so they wont understadn it

@econfused
The battle is long and hard. We should not be under any illusion that we can win so easily. So idealistically let us assume:
1. Judiciary is restored.
2. Mad ex-General leaves the country.
3. Army goes back to barracks.
4. New elections are held under a neutral and upright election comissioner.

What will be the consquences:
1.We will have a very strong independant judiciary with a CJ heading it having the power of people at his back. Just imagine what Pakistan will be after that. There will be rule of law which even west will envy.
2. Army back to barracks afraid of peopl power working professionally to counter any threat. ISI / MI working day and night to eliminate terrorism.
3. Neutral chief election commission ensuring “free and fair” election , do you know what kind of people we are going to elect. Imran Khan, Aitzaz Ahsan, Kurd.

These are dire consequences. Do you think it is possible with a struggle of only 10 months?
The battle has just started it will decades when we achieve these objective. At the moment we should focus our efforts to make sure those who have sacrificed feel that their sacrifice was worth it. They should feel proud of their acts. My worry is that these heros should not have any regret later on to sacrifice for a nation who did not deserve it.

My message to all well wishers of Pakistan is please come out of despair. Do what ever you can to save our country form these scavengers, even it is by writing or saying few words, please do something.

The only solution is free fair and impartial judiciary and rule of Law, the Law that will be same for rich and poor, same for influential and deprived. Where, everyone will be punished according to his misdeeds and the consequences of the misdeeds.

Where, punishment for abrogating one article of constitution should be less than abrogating the whole constitution.

And I beg pardon to disagree with my friends for praising different Politicians, if the role of these politicians might have been even slightly better than Mush we do not have to see what is happening today.

Everyone who came to power had plundered the national wealth and safeguarded their personal interest in the name of National interest. They always just wanted to strengthen themselves. No one had strengthened any of the institutions, especially the Parliament and the Judiciary.

This is the last chance that Allah had given us let us all come back to the right path and stand for a strong free Judiciary.

Bring all of these big ones present and past rulers to justice let them prove themselves clean and punish the bad ones.

Once this process is complete then let the ones that declared clean to participate in elections and be the rulers of our bright future.

@econfused

Please dont disheart yourself. Allah is above there and He is watching. Uss kay ghar mein deer hai andher nahi hai

You know Hazrat Iman Hussain had only 72 companions and Yazid force was in thousands but he did not bow down and today we only remember Hazrat Imam Hussain and would not even name our children after Yazid.

So this world is just temporary - everyone comes and goes - what Musharraf is doing now he is sowing for his future both in this world and world thereafter - because he has lost faith in Allah and for him only America is His Allah.

I believe this election is very important as it would show us Pakistanis once for all who is right and who is wrong it doesnt matter if one loses it at this point because I have full faith that eventual victory would be ours.

Let BB and Fazlu do what they want to do - Fazl ur Rehman considers himself Alim-Deen but I dont think he even knows ABC of deen - otherwise he would have never bowed his head in front of lie and false.

This election is in fact a ra@pe of Pakistan and lets us see who participates in this ra@pe with Musharraf. Pakistanis would never forgive those who for their short term benefit are willing to sacrifice Pakistan.

@
Pejamistri

Well said .I am in complete agreement with your analysis.

Musharraf has said he may give up power if the situation in Pakistan becomes “unacceptable”
_________
So what is unacceptable:

1-President Mush - BB
2-President Mush - NS
3-President Mush - QL
4-President Mush - ARMY

1 and 2 can never be acceptable despite all deals stories.after all its power partnership

3 & 4 are good only as long as both support Mush

Now:
A -If Army supports Mush then should QL still be Army’s choice?
B -If Army supports either BB or NS, then Mush is gone
C- Can Army supports BB or NS, and Mush at same time

A is not a valid option because Army image is not changed then - so not possible

B more likely event but…

C In this case Mush must also accepts one of these. So now it depends if Army go for BB or NS. this will very likely make situation B because it negates 1 & 2

So what will happen?

this is the reason why Mush wants BB and NS to contest and to get rid of both of them in favor of QL. Now rigging is Armys’ area so Mush is not able to control this!

comes the changes in Army as every COAS wants their men in charge, Mush will not have control over either options but to go away. Army must now support either BB or NS for their own sake.

For NS and BB street politics is the way to take credit of Mush going away and this is what Mush feels endanger of and hence the restrictions coming on.

If NS and BB both boycotts, Mush is gone again

Since both BB ans NS are told separately for their lead role in future govt. both feel danger of cheating from each other.

so we can say that ball is in court of both of them!

The longer it takes is because ARMY has yet not decided whom to party with finally.

Interestingly, Turkish president is going to meet both NS & BB as well.

Anybody who is says MMA is for boycott lives in fool’s paradise. MMA parties are playing as good cop/bad cop for past seven years. Why most of you people are unable to see this

1) 17th amendment - MMA
2) For Judiciary - JI, Against Judiciary Fazlu, in the end its Fazlu
3) Boycott - JI, No Boycott Fazlu

If anybody has any doubt the JI was only good cop, they have seen that with action in Punjab University by Jamiat toward Imran

JI is with NS, while their election Alliance is with MMA.

I would say in this battle the only center right forces are Imran and NS. I would consider NS a great leader, if he really goes for boycott.

I am really hurt after seeing a ticker on Geo “PMLN candidates can still go for elections - ” - Javaid Hashmi.

Once again, my heart says boycott by NS and my mind is saying he wil take decision back. I will come back and read my these comments.

New Snippet from The News:

LAHORE: Pakistan Muslim League (N) is seriously pondering over reversing its announcement to boycott the upcoming general elections, the party source said here on Saturday.

The party is under severe internal pressure following its announcement to boycott the polls because PPP and JUI are against the boycott.

PML-N President, Shahbaz Sharif said his party workers are pressing him to take back the decision of elections boycott, arguing that this act could damage party’s position.

Meanwhile, PML-N is presently engaged in internal elections and the party’s central and parliamentary boards are carrying out process of interviews of candidates for the purpose.

PML-N has also started the preparation of the party’s election manifesto while suggestions are being invited from its subsidiary organizations.

let me quote one of the dialogs from movie gladiator: Today I saw a slave become more powerful than the Emperor of Rome

Pakistan has yet to see this time although it has started with CJ. It is still Army whom to decide which party to support. Unless people are out in streets judiciary will not be restored and I am afraid for people being lost in matches and talk shows with ‘election city’ going on.

The only scenario when Army realize (very well if it can realize before time) is what Mush is now trying to threat US with, and reports emerging again for US preparation to handle that situation of ‘chaos’.

just seen Fazlu Diesel on Geo addressing a conference. He spoke bad about honourable judges who did NOT take oath under PCO……as soon as he did that he was booooed ….after which he had to cut his speech short and left with a sheepish/looser smile on his face….

it was worth watching…..diesel really humiliated…made me really feel good

@Malik,

You really think Fazlu is humiliated? I believe humiliation is for people who have some “Ghairat/Sharam/Haya”. I seriously doubt, you can find any thing of that nature in Diesel.

Actually NS and SS should boycott now because they are going to be disqualified in anyway - so whats the use.

it doesnt matter if PPP and Fazlu participate in the elections - as it has no crediblity so within a year the government would fall.

Musharraf was lucky for eight years because neither NS nor BB were in Pakistan but things have changed now.

Plus he is not wearing uniform and he has twice broken teh constitution.

@enconfused
i cant disagree!