Admin, you’re a star man. You’re a star. This site is awesome. The work you’re doing is awesome. Don’t you ever stop. It is easy to see that you’re a super-patriot and want what is best for our country.
Man, if there is ANYTHING at all, we/I can do to help, please don’t hesitate to call on us/me. I just love this site. If there is anything at all I can do to help, please let me know.
dear ADMIN
REAL GENNIUS EFFORT. WEPRAY FOR NOJOWAN.PAGAL KUTA WILL POSIONED SOON.
BEWARE OF Q PIGS AND OTHER LUSTY PARTIES,
LIVE LONG JUSTICES IFTKHAR CH
to support busharraf is like supporting firon….he has killed thousands to please his dad bushh…..he is the most evil person in the face of the earth and it reflects on his face…look at the ugliness on his face….and mark my words this ugly mosnter busharraf will have to payback the kidnapping of innocent people and killing of thousnads…and destroying all institutions of paksitan ..just for iqtidaar..his torturous end is near…..
no matter how much you agents try to paint an otherwise picture..but you can’t prolong the inevitable now..
NS AND BB NEVER KILLED THOUSANDS…..THEY DID CORRUPTION..BUT THIS MOSNTER IS NOT ONLY CORRUPT DECOIT BUT IS ALSO A KILLER…sharaabi …kutta….
Nice work. I think the sound equipment needs to be at some distance for better voice quality. I am talking of the person raising the slogans. His voice is not that clear whereas the slogans reply from the public is quite clear. I suppose he does not need a loud speaker Great job done. Keep posting.
@Second Video
I wish more people join them in the recent days until we get rid the mad dog. Great video and voice. Enjoyed it all the way. Good analogy and the message is well conveyed.
@Malik
You mentioned the wrong country… replace UK by Turkey then he will not negate.
There is nothing wrong in being a taxi driver, security guard, corner store employee or restaurant owner or waiter…..but it is wrong to support a dictator
We are not supporting NS or BB here. Cant u see? we are ordinary non-political people with an aching heart for pakistan who cant just sit on their a*s*s in their drawing rooms cursing heavens for pakistan’s demise. We care for pakistan and thus we support what is supposed to be the basis of a normal healthy society and that is
free judiciary
free media
democracy in its tru sense
acoountability for all and sundry
Can u tell me if your beloved busharraf has achieved these goals or lets put it this way if he has acheived these better than the politicians?we are not supporting any politician here, we are supporting a system, supporting the rule of law and masaawaat in its true sense here.
If you still think busharraf is a better choice then, I am afraid you cant be helped. This website is not for people like you. so dont waste our and your own time.get a life!!!!
If NS and BB are problems then Mush should have worked to stengthen democary and institutions. Now the problem is we NS and BB is corrupt and army comes in to save us.
While since no political govt has courage to say army is corrupt. Most of the viewers grew up during Zias time, and and during 11 years, you are saying Generals didn’t make any money. You don’t have read books, just look around and see there is Military Inc written all over place. Read books like Ghost Wars, and you would see how much money was coming in.
Now in Mush, he might have been honest (which I seriously doubt) during hist first two years. Then 9/11 happened, he got key to treasury. US has given 10 Billion dollars in aid since 2002. Do tell me where do you see that in Pakistan mega projects.
All you freaking supporters of Mush are bunch of liars. I have so many friends in Army and one Captain sb was student of mind. They thing general public cannot think any better, so we have to step in.
If theses BOOTS give democracy a chance, then in about 100 years you will see improvement.
If you keep on supporting dictators, you will not see any difference in next 1000 years.
Last but not least Great leaders are not always born, sometimes turn of events creates leaders at the spur of moment. Iftikhar Ch. has created many by creating no to dictator. It was one small NO to dictator, and now people know, that its not impossible to standup to big guns.
and Finally, name one such “DECENT” or reputed person who is with Mush. You keep on saying NS and B corrupt, like Mush had angels in his govt for last 5 years.
I sure hope you wake up from your dream. Unless you are a minister in caretaker govt.
‘Last but not least Great leaders are not always born, sometimes turn of events creates leaders at the spur of moment. Iftikhar Ch. has created many by creating no to dictator. It was one small NO to dictator, and now people know, that its not impossible to standup to big guns’
As a result we have numerous leaders now in form of civil society, lawyers, students from institutions like LUMS etc, and many more including admin of our site!
@ of all Musharraf supporters comes into the category of Mad Dogs and they need some treatment , infact they should be shot down immediately before they infact the people of pakistan any further ..
I didn’t go to this protest because of internal politics of Pakistanis.
There are people who work very hard to organise everything and they are disheartened by a small gang (I am referring to Taimur – guy who is using megaphone!!).
According to a friend of mine, this guy brings his own megaphone and a few friends who are willing to engage in fight or insult the organisers if they don’t let him lead the protest. I saw this in Jemima Khan protest where this guy’s friends manhandled some stewards to hijack the show.
I don’t understand why we are quiet about this? People complain on his back but they are scared of his Goonda tactics. He claims to be studying law yet he is leading this protest of Doctors. If he has so much interest in leading protests, why doesn’t he organise his won instead of threatening others by turning up with his friends and megaphone on every occasion??
Sorry brother I did not like the comments about Musharaf.I am not in favour of Musharaf But President of Pakistan does not deserve these comments.
Just my opinion.
Thanks,
MH
MH he is not president of Pakistan – he got it by gun – he is an illegal president and would remain an illegal president. Actually Musharraf is a black spot on the prestigious post of President of Pakistan. He is no doubt a mad do@g who only wants everything for himself. Thats all.
We dont accept him but he is president of Pakistan!! We want and will get rid of him, soon, inshallah, Please keep on support people like imran khan and keep eye on mr nawaz and benazir etc. I believe in the youngsters of pakistan. If they reamain positive and active they will change the history of our land,hopefully.
I have been to two protests (10 Downing Street & Pakistan Embassy), didn’t go to the last two, but I haven’t really felt this guy with megaphone was hijacking the protest??? I mean, what internal agenda is he promoting by hijacking the protest??? I felt he was a great cheerleader… good at shouting slogans and making a lot of noise & ruckus… raising the temperature being a lifeline for protests???
I share the strong sentiments against Mush, BB and Nazwaz similar to alexbutt. However, I feel that we should express it gracefully. :p Calling people mad dogs etc. does not help our cause. Won’t a tyrant bull be a better analogy? or better Firoon, Numrood?
I have seen some pro Mush posts. Constructive criticism on them is good, but sometimes I feel they are ridiculed. Folks, unlike Martial Law, we believe in democracy and tolerance. So, I would avoid ridicule.
Prof. Dr. Tahir-ul-Qadri [1] states dictatorship is not an Islamic government, since there is no input from people.
He states that Hazrat Usman was elected as a Khalifa by a direct bait of people (c.f. presidential system). He states that Hazrat Ali was elected as a Khalifa by the surah (c.f. parliamentary system) [2].
He discusses fundamental principles of an Islamic government in [1]. The absolute fundamental principle of an Islamic government is that it is within the bounds of Quran and Sunnah [2].
You are right. I also think he is a good cheer leader. But since I know some inside stories and I observed a lot of things in recent protests, I was very disappointed. He is not part of protest yet he brings his own group and controls the protest.
Some very active people (who usually can arrange more than 100 people) are staying away because of Taimur. Please notice his movements when he uses sign language for his friends in audience who resort to goonda tactics. He brings his own mega phone and threatens organisers (I am witness to that). He was telling an organiser ‘you have arranged stewards, remember my friends from ….? they are coming very soon and they are angry’.
Don’t you wonder that after downing street protest, number of protesters are dwindling? Reason is that active people don’t want to waste their energies only to be threatened later. He (Taimur) is happy as long he is in charge. He doesn’t give a damn about big or successful protest.
Anyone who has read Quran knows that Democracy is very close to Islam. Infact, Caliphate was earlier system for democracy.
Democracy in Khilafat:
For electing Khalifa, opinions of people from all walks of life were sought. Some people wrongly think of nomination as a main source. After nomination, opinion (voting) was taken from even traveling tribes (including women and children!!)
Democracy in Quran:
A verse from Quran says that Muslims rule with mutual consultation (Shura).
Who should be consulted: Anyone who has interest in that. For example, everyone has interest in electing their rulers. If a matter is of technical nature, then only experts should be consulted.
Democracy in Hadith:
Holy Prophet always asked for opinion of their companions and accepted the majority decision. On one point, majority opinion was against the path recommended by Holy Prophet. He (PBUH) chose majority verdict even though they lost the war because of that (and this way He (PBUH) set an example to us to seek opinion (Shura) and respect that even though we think that we are right!!!
Those who say there is no Democracy, are those who will never win elections.
Please, tell me more about the credibility of Prof. Tahir-ul-Qadri. Do you have any evidence or references to your claim? I could be following the wrong guy.
@Kami
Some of the principles of democracy and Islam overlap. However, the fundamental difference is that the absolute authority in democracy is of the parliament (or people), where as absolute authority in an Islamic government would of Quran and Sunnah.
In the explanation of ‘Iblees ki Mujlesay Shurah’ of Allama Iqbal, Dr. Israr Ahmed states that the political system of the world will converge to an Islamic system; after trying various political systems dictatorship, socialism, capitalism…
If you are trying to implement Islam with the government, let me tell you it is a very difficult task. I don’t think most of us believe Pakistan is meant for Islam. Actually, Pakistan was created as a separate state for Muslims. It was in 1949 through objective resolution, islam was declared as the official religion and later in 1973, it was declared to be a state governed by islamic laws. Belive me, most of us are not willing to have an Islamic state. We prefer it to be like any other state and religion is regarded as a big hurdle in all matters (You will always observe an eyebrow stretched when refered to Islamic Laws).
So for the time being whatever form of government one could have, whether presidential or democratic, it has to be with a good intention, not like ‘sab se pehlay pakistan’ aur ‘pakistan maen hoon’.
Don’t label it as islamic and defame islam. It is just a bunch of rules accepted by some governing authorities for whom this bunch of rules matters nothing.
AOA,
democracy close to islam?
Islam Support all kind of government which support the people. Under that government the people should be happy. If the people is not happy with any government even it is chosen by democratic way Islam does not like that government.Democratic government is a better but the condition is The Public should be happy and they are getting all rights.
Any system/culture/tradition that is not against the basics of Islam is Islamic. Islam is a source of guidance; as opposed to Mullah’s claims who try to prove that even traffic laws are present in Quran.
Democracy is very close to Islam as opposed to dictatorship.
Please use “Visitors’ News View” for posting generic comments such as my “leader” is better than your “leader” etc. I was expecting candid feedback about the video and suggestions here.
People like Quaid and Iqbal were liberal Muslims and supported Pakistan through popular votes. Please bear that in mind when we are referring to his poetry. As far Dr Israr, he can never win elections through popular vote. He is an MBBS doctor. Somethings he says are right but that doesn’t mean all his interpretations of Islam are acceptable to others.
This topic could become very controversial so I would simply say that people have the right to rule themselves the way they want. If majority of people want to have Laws that are not strictly according to Quran and Sunnah, they are free to do that because it is between them and their God. If God wanted to take away all the opportunities to decide from people, how will he punish people for choosing something wrong?
Remember: There is no coersion in Islam (Quran). It is a proof that people are free to choose any system.
@qami and rizwan
when people are free to choose their Religion according to Islam why the Ulama of Pakistan and the pakistani Government inter fare in the basic right of pakistani citizen? by putting sanctions on them?
Following are what are considered the pillars of a democratic system. Each one of them have to kept into mind when Secular Democratic System is compared with Islamic Shura System.
Pillars of democracy are:
1. Sovereignty of the people.
This is where all differences originate – sovereigty belongs to Allah, not people i.e. people can’t create laws that go against what are pretty clear cut laws defined in Quran (note, I am deliberately avoiding the Sharia laws that have their basis on Hadith, makes matters even more complex).
2. Government based upon consent of the governed.
There is no clash here – again, consent cannot change what is prescribed by Allah.
3. Majority rule.
Practically, an Islamic system can only be implemented when Muslims have the majority!!! If they are, there is no clash with democratic system. If they are not, one cannot implement the Islamic shura system without sheer power (case in point, Mughal empire and their struggle to impose Islamic laws over a Hindu majority).
4. Minority rights.
Minority rights are well protected and generally speaking it is not an issue in a JUST Muslim state.
5. Guarantee of basic human rights.
Islam has a 1200 year head start on this compared to any western democracies.
6. Free and fair elections.
no issues here….
7. Equality before the law.
Islam has a 1200 year head start on this compared to any western democracies.
8. Due process of law.
Islam has a 1200 year head start on this compared to any western democracies.
9. Constitutional limits on government.
This is an interesting one because typically in the Muslim societies the Khalifa became the defacto ruler until some personal event changed the situation. To me this is an area where the Shura System can introduce measures and controls that periodically brings better leadership to the top.
10. Social, economic, and political pluralism.
Islam has a 1200 year head start on this compared to any western democracies. Polictical pluralism is acceptable as long as it’s values remain consistent with Islamic values.
as i wrote this posting….there is a lot to think about.
Big test ahead for political parties.
If they participate in election then they will be supporting mad d0g, if they don’t then it will be an open field for mad d0g & his allies.
Whether Gen. Kiani will remain neutral in either case is early to say.
BB & Bhaloo have openly given up support for CJ & other suspended judges.
Will PML-N, T.I, JI be able to gather enough political momentum to make an impact ?
Are political parties in a quagmire ?
There are only two countries in the world created in the name of religion: Israel and Pakistan [1]. Muslims of India were united to create a separate state for the sake of religion. I would find it suprising that so many sacrificed their lives for a cause that “we” think is not meant for Pakistan. I am curious to find out what do you think an Islamic state is?
There are some Islamic resolutions [2] in the constitutions, but their effect is limited. I suggest everyone should find out ideology of Pakistan. A comprehensive and academic perspective is stated in [1].
@ Kami
May I add, Quran and Sunnah layout a basic framwork for a government. There is a lot of flexibility within that framework [3].
Both Quaid and Iqbal were deeply religious, assuming the following is true.
Iqbal:
Allama Iqbal’s concept of Khudi is based on Quran (59, 19), as stated by Dr. Israr Ahmed in [5]. Further, Dr. Israr Ahmed translated a verse of Iqbal from Persian. It stated that, “If any of my work is outside Quran (and Sunnah), May (Allah) deprive me from kissing the feet of prophet (pbuh) on the day of judgment” [4].
Quaid:
Quaid is known to be a secular figure primarily because of his lifestyle and the comment he made on August 11, 1947: “…In due course of time Hindus will cease to be Hindus and Muslims will cease to be Muslims- not in a religious sense for that is the personal faith of an individual- but in a political sense as citizens of one state” [6]. However, this is an exception. His other comments including use of violent force for the help of other muslim nations if need be [1]. He also said other pro-islamic things on his death bed that I cannot recall from memory but are present in [1].
Now, Kami if you have evidences/sources otherwise, please share them with me. I could be wrong.
@ point
Anything that threatens the existence of current establishment, they will put sanctions on them. Media and Judiciary challenged, so they have silence. I sincerely believe that unjust system can suppress the truth but can never eliminate it. Media and Judiciary will reemerge, iA. Where as a personal faith of individual does not threat establishment; therefore, it not suppressed at an individual level.
@ all
As per admin’s direction, i won’t post the reply here.
Regarding the protest I wish to say that we need another son of Aitezaz in London tomorrow, at least in the afternoon seesion, to reveal the lies of the liars who are representatives of a liar dictator.
Despite all what you have said, the fact remains that a democracy is what Pakistan needs. You seem to be follower of Dr Israr and for me he is not a person to look for guidance. But I respect your choice because that is what democracy and tolerance teaches me.
Dr Israr should fight elections to see if he can win. Both Jinnah and Iqbal believed in right of self determination of ordinary Muslims.
I don’t want to enlighten people and annoy anyone in the process, I can only say one thing: listen to your heart and follow common sense. And as far common sense dictates: stay well clear of so called MBBS scholars like Dr Israr.
@Kami
Do you see any solution to the problem created by the community ‘bhais’ (headed by Taimur) who want to steel the show arranged by other people? This is very disappointing for all of us, since the number of persons also get reduced.
Do you think this Taimur represnts some party as well? Some one must be at his back… may be some retd. general .
Let us see how much noise he can make tomorrow.
The only reason organizers were not stopping him was that they didn’t want to show the media that we are not united. Rumour has it that someone influential has Khandani links with him.
Trust me we have lost many people (including myself) who could have motivated and brought a great number of people.
I don’t know why he wants to become hero of every show. Organisers should decide who will speak. He wants to show that it is only him who can run the show.
I think you and all of us should contact organisers of protests and offer our support to them and ask them if Taimur really represents them. If not, we should go to him in a group and tell him to stop and also inform people not to answer his slogans. We can also contact authorities telling them that he is disrupting. If he is singled out as trouble maker, he will step aside.
@Asif
Thanks for forwarding the protest. Appears to be a good one. Nice to see people from different sectors convincing people to come out of their homes.
Where was this protest held, and how was it organised?
i dont know who this taimur guy is, but we must be united in our efforts. at the end of the day this is what we are expecting from our leaders/politicians and we must not create differences in our folds including Taimur
Since you love references. Let me give you one reference about difference of opinion. I searched Dr Israr on Youtube and this is what Dr Israr and others were calling Allama Iqbal (someone who was impressed by Qadiyanis or someone who was a Qadiyani himself)!
On dec 1st there was an interesting debate by the hizb-e-tehrir, ‘how to find new leadership for Pakistan’. Does anyone know the reputation of there guys. i seem to remember something about the prayer room in UCL being closed coz of them. i might be wrong. So anyone know about them?
@Kami
By the way… son of Allama Iqbal did not deny that… or did he?
Since most of the poetry is after 1908, so this doesn’t matter for all of us since no one can feel anything strange at least from his popular poetry. It is truly Islamic and very true… a message for Muslims all around the world.
Actually so much knowledge leads to such things. Unfortunately being the son of Allama Iqbal, we have been giving him extra ordinary respect. I know from his lectures delivered at various places in Islamabad, where he is criticized after his speech in a way… ‘If Iqbal had listened to his son he would have been very sad’.
I have seen Ulema explaining islam with Iqbal’s poetry during Juma and otherwise. We should have a consensus on Iqbal. Being abroad, I met a Muslim from some Arab country, and he regarded Iqbal’s poetry as a good piece of research, innovation and message to all mankind… of course mainly for the Muslims.
I have met many Iranis and Turks who used to ask me abour Iqbal Lahori. Iqbal is quite famous is these countries too, especially in Iran where his poetry in persian was one of sources of inspiration during revolution days.
Turks regard him becuase of Iqbal’s affiliation with Jelal-ed-Din Rumi.
It is really bad if you stay away coz of one guy. Actually it sounds lame.And you do claim that you can mobilize a 100 people. Mostly in these protests there are usually only about 100 people.
you should have kept the issue at the fore front instead of sulking coz one guy steals he show.
And what if he does and is a ghoonda. All he does is mobilize the crowd, which is usually very small. At least he is there , you and your 100 are not. Which is what matters in the end.
My bet. Ask your friend (or u if that is u) not to interfere with the next protest (and thus assure others with action!) and there will be double the number in the protest after.
No need to get upset! I only asked people to confirm with organisers of protests (their number is often on the advertisement) if he represents them. If they say yes, then we should all be united with him. If they say ‘No’ then we should approach him and tell him to be one of the audience and leave the programme schedule for those who have been awake for nights to organize the event. They can run it better.
He is not indispensable like Musharraf!! If he is the only one, then organisers will request him to come back.
@Kami
Brother why can’t we Pakistanis accept an argument which have some substance in it?
Just read your lines:
“You seem to be follower of Dr Israr and for me he is not a person to look for guidance.”
Mr Rizwan just quoted Dr Israr and you are immediately assuming that he is a follower of Dr Israr.
“I don’t want to enlighten people and annoy anyone in the process; I can only say one thing: listen to your heart and follow common sense. And as far common sense dictates: stay well clear of so called MBBS scholars like Dr Israr.”
Read first part of you sentence and then read the second part, see any difference?
I have only quoted a couple of lines from your posts, does these lines have any substance in them except silly arguments.
Just to clarify, I am not a follower of Dr Israr and I don’t know Mr Rizwan!!
Well done mate, we need to tell this nation specially the younger generation about MAD DOGS, its not just one DOG, if this one goes others will take his place!!!
As far my memory goes, brother Rizwan has mentioned MBBS doctor Israr on many occasions.
I have read a lot on Maudoodi & Israr. I don’t want to write things to annoy people because there are many things that are against common sense.
May I recommend you to watch Jawab Deh interview that brother has given reference and listen to what Dr Israr calls us ordinary Muslims of Pakistan (anyone who knows Quranic Arabic will be stunned with the words of Fasiq, Fajir etc). He calls all this but reluctantly adds ‘yes but still a muslim’. He recommends a different Parliament for non muslims. He says they should be second rate citizens in Pakistan and argues that he doesn’t mind if as a reaction other countries (including US & EU) declare Muslims their second rate citizen.
Now for a minute forget about what his philosophy is, DO YOU REALLY WANT THAT TO HAPPEN TO US??
I have many other references and the only reason I am not mentioning them is: this is not a religious website and such discussions involve a lot of emotions. And as for difference of opinions, watch the link above that I have given where even Javed Iqbal doesn’t deny that his father Allama Iqbal was a Qadiyani (I personally think that Qadiyani is a Made in UK religion!).
The Mad dog has already damaged Laal Masjid at Islamabad and taken thousands of innocent girls’lives in Jaamia Hafsa. So it is a must to clear this filth before starting MELA in this village.
I think Dr. Israr Ahmed has some creditability. However, I disagree with some of his views. For example, he does not believe in participating in the current democratic process. Where as I do. Having said that, I do have a lot of respect for him.
@kami
I apologize for the following verse,
“phool ki patti say kat sakha hai herey ka jigar,
mardey nadan par kalaam-e-narmonazuk bey asar�
But I do standby that statement that your opinion, though respectful, lacks substance, references or evidence.
I like healthy debates but do not wish to indulge in pointless argument, since I do not learn much from them.
Hahahahaha. Well done mate. Now thats what I call passing on the message. The guy has some wonderful sense of humer and is also aware of the political situation. fantastic. Keep it up bro
I too will not be replying. i was at a number of events of Mush’s team and there was no show of your gang nor the other gang , so i am guessing you are both the same
Buckup IK supporters
longlive IK
hahaha
man u deserve a show on geo
Well Done !!!
However after dealing with mad dog, what’s the cure for greedy cat and heavy weight bhaloo? They are stick hanging with mad dog’s tail.
We also need to have a cure for SOBs like kashmala and AG qayyum dont forget them!!!! They are also part of the Dogggy Family!!!
good one
Haha…. interesting.. I heard about madog before but now understand that the analysis is correct. Real task should be to get rid of all Pagal Kuttay
@Faisal daud
LOL @ heavy weight bhaloo remark!!! perfect analogy.
Also don’t forget the big munafiq “Iltaf Hussain”
Admin, you’re a star man. You’re a star. This site is awesome. The work you’re doing is awesome. Don’t you ever stop. It is easy to see that you’re a super-patriot and want what is best for our country.
Man, if there is ANYTHING at all, we/I can do to help, please don’t hesitate to call on us/me. I just love this site. If there is anything at all I can do to help, please let me know.
Where is Kashmala and her buddies putting the next show. We need to resist these three liars.
dear ADMIN
REAL GENNIUS EFFORT. WEPRAY FOR NOJOWAN.PAGAL KUTA WILL POSIONED SOON.
BEWARE OF Q PIGS AND OTHER LUSTY PARTIES,
LIVE LONG JUSTICES IFTKHAR CH
There is only one cure of a dog that has gone mad and we all know what that is.
@addmin ..
i love you man
God bless you ..
lolz well said bro
it can be called as the 100% accurate analysis of pakistan,keep up the great work
bhai you are verrry naughty!!
v
to support busharraf is like supporting firon….he has killed thousands to please his dad bushh…..he is the most evil person in the face of the earth and it reflects on his face…look at the ugliness on his face….and mark my words this ugly mosnter busharraf will have to payback the kidnapping of innocent people and killing of thousnads…and destroying all institutions of paksitan ..just for iqtidaar..his torturous end is near…..
no matter how much you agents try to paint an otherwise picture..but you can’t prolong the inevitable now..
NS AND BB NEVER KILLED THOUSANDS…..THEY DID CORRUPTION..BUT THIS MOSNTER IS NOT ONLY CORRUPT DECOIT BUT IS ALSO A KILLER…sharaabi …kutta….
Chaudhry Shujjat has openly said that people dont want judges – they want bread and employment
Chaudhry Shujjat has lowered the level of people of pakistan to that of animals – who only need food and shelter.
He believes that no one is entitled for a cheap and real justice.
Chaudhry Shujjat your name would be written in golden letters among the list who destroyed Pakistan.
long live IMRAN KHAN
I am looking a great leader in shape of Imran khan the only leader after Muhammad Ali Jeneha.who can fight on principles for peoples of pakistan
Ya teray Ufqar ki Azamat hey key Khan
Tari Hay Liteyroon kay Dar o Bam pa Lerza.
At last Jutice will come over polluted politics of lota type politicians.
Shan i pakistan hay
Imran hay khan hay
Go farward we are with you
Nice work. I think the sound equipment needs to be at some distance for better voice quality. I am talking of the person raising the slogans. His voice is not that clear whereas the slogans reply from the public is quite clear. I suppose he does not need a loud speaker
Great job done. Keep posting.
@Second Video
I wish more people join them in the recent days until we get rid the mad dog. Great video and voice. Enjoyed it all the way. Good analogy and the message is well conveyed.
@Malik
You mentioned the wrong country… replace UK by Turkey then he will not negate.
There is nothing wrong in being a taxi driver, security guard, corner store employee or restaurant owner or waiter…..but it is wrong to support a dictator
Dear admin
well done .
can you upload imran khan speech ?
Admin!
Get Ready for,Capital Talk and Meray Mutabiq will on air starting from NEXT week
We are not supporting NS or BB here. Cant u see? we are ordinary non-political people with an aching heart for pakistan who cant just sit on their a*s*s in their drawing rooms cursing heavens for pakistan’s demise. We care for pakistan and thus we support what is supposed to be the basis of a normal healthy society and that is
free judiciary
free media
democracy in its tru sense
acoountability for all and sundry
Can u tell me if your beloved busharraf has achieved these goals or lets put it this way if he has acheived these better than the politicians?we are not supporting any politician here, we are supporting a system, supporting the rule of law and masaawaat in its true sense here.
If you still think busharraf is a better choice then, I am afraid you cant be helped. This website is not for people like you. so dont waste our and your own time.get a life!!!!
If NS and BB are problems then Mush should have worked to stengthen democary and institutions. Now the problem is we NS and BB is corrupt and army comes in to save us.
While since no political govt has courage to say army is corrupt. Most of the viewers grew up during Zias time, and and during 11 years, you are saying Generals didn’t make any money. You don’t have read books, just look around and see there is Military Inc written all over place. Read books like Ghost Wars, and you would see how much money was coming in.
Now in Mush, he might have been honest (which I seriously doubt) during hist first two years. Then 9/11 happened, he got key to treasury. US has given 10 Billion dollars in aid since 2002. Do tell me where do you see that in Pakistan mega projects.
All you freaking supporters of Mush are bunch of liars. I have so many friends in Army and one Captain sb was student of mind. They thing general public cannot think any better, so we have to step in.
If theses BOOTS give democracy a chance, then in about 100 years you will see improvement.
If you keep on supporting dictators, you will not see any difference in next 1000 years.
Last but not least Great leaders are not always born, sometimes turn of events creates leaders at the spur of moment. Iftikhar Ch. has created many by creating no to dictator. It was one small NO to dictator, and now people know, that its not impossible to standup to big guns.
and Finally, name one such “DECENT” or reputed person who is with Mush. You keep on saying NS and B corrupt, like Mush had angels in his govt for last 5 years.
I sure hope you wake up from your dream. Unless you are a minister in caretaker govt.
You sure are treading dangerous grounds admin!
Liked it. Keep them coming.
@enconfused….well said
‘Last but not least Great leaders are not always born, sometimes turn of events creates leaders at the spur of moment. Iftikhar Ch. has created many by creating no to dictator. It was one small NO to dictator, and now people know, that its not impossible to standup to big guns’
As a result we have numerous leaders now in form of civil society, lawyers, students from institutions like LUMS etc, and many more including admin of our site!
@ of all Musharraf supporters comes into the category of Mad Dogs and they need some treatment , infact they should be shot down immediately before they infact the people of pakistan any further ..
abay yar ye khan ko tou chup karao musse iss ka uncle hai kai?????
i belive he is not a khan, he is black spot on pathan nation.
I didn’t go to this protest because of internal politics of Pakistanis.
There are people who work very hard to organise everything and they are disheartened by a small gang (I am referring to Taimur – guy who is using megaphone!!).
According to a friend of mine, this guy brings his own megaphone and a few friends who are willing to engage in fight or insult the organisers if they don’t let him lead the protest. I saw this in Jemima Khan protest where this guy’s friends manhandled some stewards to hijack the show.
I don’t understand why we are quiet about this? People complain on his back but they are scared of his Goonda tactics. He claims to be studying law yet he is leading this protest of Doctors. If he has so much interest in leading protests, why doesn’t he organise his won instead of threatening others by turning up with his friends and megaphone on every occasion??
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2007/12/071202_nawaz_extremism.shtml
Nothing to say!!
http://www.jasarat.com/multimedia.php?page=03#
well mr kami if he is doing such thing then u should kick his ass man
Sorry brother I did not like the comments about Musharaf.I am not in favour of Musharaf But President of Pakistan does not deserve these comments.
Just my opinion.
Thanks,
MH
MH he is not president of Pakistan – he got it by gun – he is an illegal president and would remain an illegal president. Actually Musharraf is a black spot on the prestigious post of President of Pakistan. He is no doubt a mad do@g who only wants everything for himself. Thats all.
Very Good I agree with this young man.
Great work Admin … jab Kutta pagal ho jaya ti uss ko goli marney kay ilawaa koi chara nahin rehta …
Anyway you did very good job
We dont accept him but he is president of Pakistan!! We want and will get rid of him, soon, inshallah, Please keep on support people like imran khan and keep eye on mr nawaz and benazir etc. I believe in the youngsters of pakistan. If they reamain positive and active they will change the history of our land,hopefully.
@ Kami
I have been to two protests (10 Downing Street & Pakistan Embassy), didn’t go to the last two, but I haven’t really felt this guy with megaphone was hijacking the protest??? I mean, what internal agenda is he promoting by hijacking the protest??? I felt he was a great cheerleader… good at shouting slogans and making a lot of noise & ruckus… raising the temperature being a lifeline for protests???
Friends,
I share the strong sentiments against Mush, BB and Nazwaz similar to alexbutt. However, I feel that we should express it gracefully. :p Calling people mad dogs etc. does not help our cause. Won’t a tyrant bull be a better analogy?
or better Firoon, Numrood?
I have seen some pro Mush posts. Constructive criticism on them is good, but sometimes I feel they are ridiculed. Folks, unlike Martial Law, we believe in democracy and tolerance. So, I would avoid ridicule.
Wa-salam
Rizwan
Prof. Dr. Tahir-ul-Qadri [1] states dictatorship is not an Islamic government, since there is no input from people.
He states that Hazrat Usman was elected as a Khalifa by a direct bait of people (c.f. presidential system). He states that Hazrat Ali was elected as a Khalifa by the surah (c.f. parliamentary system) [2].
He discusses fundamental principles of an Islamic government in [1]. The absolute fundamental principle of an Islamic government is that it is within the bounds of Quran and Sunnah [2].
All this lectures are in english.
[1]http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-4721014151466776613&q=tahir+islam+politics&total=8&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
[2]http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-1868246610928507871&q=tahir+islam+politics&total=8&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2
in this lecture:
He claims dictatorship is not an Islamic government, since there is no
input from people.
@ Muhammad
You are right. I also think he is a good cheer leader. But since I know some inside stories and I observed a lot of things in recent protests, I was very disappointed. He is not part of protest yet he brings his own group and controls the protest.
Some very active people (who usually can arrange more than 100 people) are staying away because of Taimur. Please notice his movements when he uses sign language for his friends in audience who resort to goonda tactics. He brings his own mega phone and threatens organisers (I am witness to that). He was telling an organiser ‘you have arranged stewards, remember my friends from ….? they are coming very soon and they are angry’.
Don’t you wonder that after downing street protest, number of protesters are dwindling? Reason is that active people don’t want to waste their energies only to be threatened later. He (Taimur) is happy as long he is in charge. He doesn’t give a damn about big or successful protest.
DEMOCRACY IN ISLAM
Anyone who has read Quran knows that Democracy is very close to Islam. Infact, Caliphate was earlier system for democracy.
Democracy in Khilafat:
For electing Khalifa, opinions of people from all walks of life were sought. Some people wrongly think of nomination as a main source. After nomination, opinion (voting) was taken from even traveling tribes (including women and children!!)
Democracy in Quran:
A verse from Quran says that Muslims rule with mutual consultation (Shura).
Who should be consulted: Anyone who has interest in that. For example, everyone has interest in electing their rulers. If a matter is of technical nature, then only experts should be consulted.
Democracy in Hadith:
Holy Prophet always asked for opinion of their companions and accepted the majority decision. On one point, majority opinion was against the path recommended by Holy Prophet. He (PBUH) chose majority verdict even though they lost the war because of that (and this way He (PBUH) set an example to us to seek opinion (Shura) and respect that even though we think that we are right!!!
Those who say there is no Democracy, are those who will never win elections.
@rizwan
Great, someone has to bring up another hypocrite to this discussion. I would run from Tahir-ul-Qadri as far as possible.
Please folks don’t go and listen to his lectures.
This guy is only good for Manazaras, or a show off. If you don’t know what a show off, then go find the meaning.
@ ecoconfused
@ rizwan
democracy is very close to Islam. my comments are awaiting intervention. i have also quoted a few things on this matter.
do not say ‘who says it’ focus on ‘what he says’.
@ ecoconfused
Please, tell me more about the credibility of Prof. Tahir-ul-Qadri. Do you have any evidence or references to your claim? I could be following the wrong guy.
@Kami
Some of the principles of democracy and Islam overlap. However, the fundamental difference is that the absolute authority in democracy is of the parliament (or people), where as absolute authority in an Islamic government would of Quran and Sunnah.
In the explanation of ‘Iblees ki Mujlesay Shurah’ of Allama Iqbal, Dr. Israr Ahmed states that the political system of the world will converge to an Islamic system; after trying various political systems dictatorship, socialism, capitalism…
@Admin
Keep up the good work…
a good article about democracy and Islam.
http://www.islamonline.net/iol-english/dowalia/american-24-1-2000/american1.asp
If you are trying to implement Islam with the government, let me tell you it is a very difficult task. I don’t think most of us believe Pakistan is meant for Islam. Actually, Pakistan was created as a separate state for Muslims. It was in 1949 through objective resolution, islam was declared as the official religion and later in 1973, it was declared to be a state governed by islamic laws. Belive me, most of us are not willing to have an Islamic state. We prefer it to be like any other state and religion is regarded as a big hurdle in all matters (You will always observe an eyebrow stretched when refered to Islamic Laws).
So for the time being whatever form of government one could have, whether presidential or democratic, it has to be with a good intention, not like ‘sab se pehlay pakistan’ aur ‘pakistan maen hoon’.
Don’t label it as islamic and defame islam. It is just a bunch of rules accepted by some governing authorities for whom this bunch of rules matters nothing.
AOA,
democracy close to islam?
Islam Support all kind of government which support the people. Under that government the people should be happy. If the people is not happy with any government even it is chosen by democratic way Islam does not like that government.Democratic government is a better but the condition is The Public should be happy and they are getting all rights.
“point to be noted” is somehow right. I will use the word “Social Justice” instead of happy.
Any system/culture/tradition that is not against the basics of Islam is Islamic. Islam is a source of guidance; as opposed to Mullah’s claims who try to prove that even traffic laws are present in Quran.
Democracy is very close to Islam as opposed to dictatorship.
@all
Please use “Visitors’ News View” for posting generic comments such as my “leader” is better than your “leader” etc. I was expecting candid feedback about the video and suggestions here.
@ Rizwan
People like Quaid and Iqbal were liberal Muslims and supported Pakistan through popular votes. Please bear that in mind when we are referring to his poetry. As far Dr Israr, he can never win elections through popular vote. He is an MBBS doctor. Somethings he says are right but that doesn’t mean all his interpretations of Islam are acceptable to others.
This topic could become very controversial so I would simply say that people have the right to rule themselves the way they want. If majority of people want to have Laws that are not strictly according to Quran and Sunnah, they are free to do that because it is between them and their God. If God wanted to take away all the opportunities to decide from people, how will he punish people for choosing something wrong?
Remember: There is no coersion in Islam (Quran). It is a proof that people are free to choose any system.
@ admin
To discourage such people ‘my leader is better than yours’, why don’t you simply delete their comments.
@qami and rizwan
when people are free to choose their Religion according to Islam why the Ulama of Pakistan and the pakistani Government inter fare in the basic right of pakistani citizen? by putting sanctions on them?
LONG LIVE IK … PTI is the only active party internationally
Following are what are considered the pillars of a democratic system. Each one of them have to kept into mind when Secular Democratic System is compared with Islamic Shura System.
Pillars of democracy are:
1. Sovereignty of the people.
This is where all differences originate – sovereigty belongs to Allah, not people i.e. people can’t create laws that go against what are pretty clear cut laws defined in Quran (note, I am deliberately avoiding the Sharia laws that have their basis on Hadith, makes matters even more complex).
2. Government based upon consent of the governed.
There is no clash here – again, consent cannot change what is prescribed by Allah.
3. Majority rule.
Practically, an Islamic system can only be implemented when Muslims have the majority!!! If they are, there is no clash with democratic system. If they are not, one cannot implement the Islamic shura system without sheer power (case in point, Mughal empire and their struggle to impose Islamic laws over a Hindu majority).
4. Minority rights.
Minority rights are well protected and generally speaking it is not an issue in a JUST Muslim state.
5. Guarantee of basic human rights.
Islam has a 1200 year head start on this compared to any western democracies.
6. Free and fair elections.
no issues here….
7. Equality before the law.
Islam has a 1200 year head start on this compared to any western democracies.
8. Due process of law.
Islam has a 1200 year head start on this compared to any western democracies.
9. Constitutional limits on government.
This is an interesting one because typically in the Muslim societies the Khalifa became the defacto ruler until some personal event changed the situation. To me this is an area where the Shura System can introduce measures and controls that periodically brings better leadership to the top.
10. Social, economic, and political pluralism.
Islam has a 1200 year head start on this compared to any western democracies. Polictical pluralism is acceptable as long as it’s values remain consistent with Islamic values.
as i wrote this posting….there is a lot to think about.
Geo is announcing a special programme on Pak Elections at 10.05pm today 2 Dec on Geo News
dont forget to watch
Big test ahead for political parties.
If they participate in election then they will be supporting mad d0g, if they don’t then it will be an open field for mad d0g & his allies.
Whether Gen. Kiani will remain neutral in either case is early to say.
BB & Bhaloo have openly given up support for CJ & other suspended judges.
Will PML-N, T.I, JI be able to gather enough political momentum to make an impact ?
Are political parties in a quagmire ?
@ admin
Sorry for generic comments, but one last post.
@ all
Please, use references to back your opinion. :p
@ Tanweer
There are only two countries in the world created in the name of religion: Israel and Pakistan [1]. Muslims of India were united to create a separate state for the sake of religion. I would find it suprising that so many sacrificed their lives for a cause that “we” think is not meant for Pakistan. I am curious to find out what do you think an Islamic state is?
There are some Islamic resolutions [2] in the constitutions, but their effect is limited. I suggest everyone should find out ideology of Pakistan. A comprehensive and academic perspective is stated in [1].
@ Kami
May I add, Quran and Sunnah layout a basic framwork for a government. There is a lot of flexibility within that framework [3].
Both Quaid and Iqbal were deeply religious, assuming the following is true.
Iqbal:
Allama Iqbal’s concept of Khudi is based on Quran (59, 19), as stated by Dr. Israr Ahmed in [5]. Further, Dr. Israr Ahmed translated a verse of Iqbal from Persian. It stated that, “If any of my work is outside Quran (and Sunnah), May (Allah) deprive me from kissing the feet of prophet (pbuh) on the day of judgment” [4].
Quaid:
Quaid is known to be a secular figure primarily because of his lifestyle and the comment he made on August 11, 1947: “…In due course of time Hindus will cease to be Hindus and Muslims will cease to be Muslims- not in a religious sense for that is the personal faith of an individual- but in a political sense as citizens of one state” [6]. However, this is an exception. His other comments including use of violent force for the help of other muslim nations if need be [1]. He also said other pro-islamic things on his death bed that I cannot recall from memory but are present in [1].
Now, Kami if you have evidences/sources otherwise, please share them with me. I could be wrong.
@ point
Anything that threatens the existence of current establishment, they will put sanctions on them. Media and Judiciary challenged, so they have silence. I sincerely believe that unjust system can suppress the truth but can never eliminate it. Media and Judiciary will reemerge, iA. Where as a personal faith of individual does not threat establishment; therefore, it not suppressed at an individual level.
[1] Ideology of pak, http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=3049221873562064858&q=israr+ahmed
[2] Jawab dey, http://youtube.com/watch?v=QGKxWHwYqz0
[3] Islam and Poltics,
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-1868246610928507871&q=tahir+islam+politics&total=8&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2
[4] Iblees ki Majlis-e-shura, http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=6007689189023510712
[5] Aaghaz, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UNJmtGJ1xk
[6] Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali_Jinnah#Legacy_and_criticism
Quaid’s speech on taking inspiration from Quran.
“If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Quran, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours.”
http://www.quaid.gov.pk/speech11.htm
@ all
As per admin’s direction, i won’t post the reply here.
Regarding the protest I wish to say that we need another son of Aitezaz in London tomorrow, at least in the afternoon seesion, to reveal the lies of the liars who are representatives of a liar dictator.
@ Rizwan
Despite all what you have said, the fact remains that a democracy is what Pakistan needs. You seem to be follower of Dr Israr and for me he is not a person to look for guidance. But I respect your choice because that is what democracy and tolerance teaches me.
Dr Israr should fight elections to see if he can win. Both Jinnah and Iqbal believed in right of self determination of ordinary Muslims.
I don’t want to enlighten people and annoy anyone in the process, I can only say one thing: listen to your heart and follow common sense. And as far common sense dictates: stay well clear of so called MBBS scholars like Dr Israr.
@Kami
.
Do you see any solution to the problem created by the community ‘bhais’ (headed by Taimur) who want to steel the show arranged by other people? This is very disappointing for all of us, since the number of persons also get reduced.
Do you think this Taimur represnts some party as well? Some one must be at his back… may be some retd. general
Let us see how much noise he can make tomorrow.
Allama Iqbal has been termed as “Ejaz-ul-Quran”.
Listen the following (from
32m-37m) at this link: http://islam.islamabad.net/media/4.wmv
Ahmed
@Tanweer Amjad
The only reason organizers were not stopping him was that they didn’t want to show the media that we are not united. Rumour has it that someone influential has Khandani links with him.
Trust me we have lost many people (including myself) who could have motivated and brought a great number of people.
I don’t know why he wants to become hero of every show. Organisers should decide who will speak. He wants to show that it is only him who can run the show.
@Tanweer Amjad
I think you and all of us should contact organisers of protests and offer our support to them and ask them if Taimur really represents them. If not, we should go to him in a group and tell him to stop and also inform people not to answer his slogans. We can also contact authorities telling them that he is disrupting. If he is singled out as trouble maker, he will step aside.
@kami
IK ideal’s is Allama Iqbal. I do not have a reference to my hand.
Your opinion, though respectful, lacks substance, references or evidence.
“phool ki patti say kat sakha hai herey ka jigar,
mardey nadan par kalaam-e-narmonazuk bey asar”
no offense intended:-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu9wsT24YdU&feature=related
salman ahmad speaking at UN students protest
@ Ahmad Iqbal
I didn’t take any offense because I intentionally didn’t put references (though it is strange to say those things and add no offense intended!!).
If I had put references of the books I have read, they would not be understandable to you, lol
no offense intended!
@Asif
Thanks for forwarding the protest. Appears to be a good one. Nice to see people from different sectors convincing people to come out of their homes.
Where was this protest held, and how was it organised?
@Kami @Tanweer Amjad and others
i dont know who this taimur guy is, but we must be united in our efforts. at the end of the day this is what we are expecting from our leaders/politicians and we must not create differences in our folds including Taimur
@ Ahmad Iqbal
Since you love references. Let me give you one reference about difference of opinion. I searched Dr Israr on Youtube and this is what Dr Israr and others were calling Allama Iqbal (someone who was impressed by Qadiyanis or someone who was a Qadiyani himself)!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vO2nAJ9aJJw
PS: personally i think Qadiyanis are a fake religion (no offence intended!)
On dec 1st there was an interesting debate by the hizb-e-tehrir, ‘how to find new leadership for Pakistan’. Does anyone know the reputation of there guys. i seem to remember something about the prayer room in UCL being closed coz of them. i might be wrong. So anyone know about them?
@Kami
By the way… son of Allama Iqbal did not deny that… or did he?
Since most of the poetry is after 1908, so this doesn’t matter for all of us since no one can feel anything strange at least from his popular poetry. It is truly Islamic and very true… a message for Muslims all around the world.
Actually so much knowledge leads to such things. Unfortunately being the son of Allama Iqbal, we have been giving him extra ordinary respect. I know from his lectures delivered at various places in Islamabad, where he is criticized after his speech in a way… ‘If Iqbal had listened to his son he would have been very sad’.
I have seen Ulema explaining islam with Iqbal’s poetry during Juma and otherwise. We should have a consensus on Iqbal. Being abroad, I met a Muslim from some Arab country, and he regarded Iqbal’s poetry as a good piece of research, innovation and message to all mankind… of course mainly for the Muslims.
I have met many Iranis and Turks who used to ask me abour Iqbal Lahori. Iqbal is quite famous is these countries too, especially in Iran where his poetry in persian was one of sources of inspiration during revolution days.
Turks regard him becuase of Iqbal’s affiliation with Jelal-ed-Din Rumi.
loo jee sada message censor ho gya. bally wyww ballyy
@kami
It is really bad if you stay away coz of one guy. Actually it sounds lame.And you do claim that you can mobilize a 100 people. Mostly in these protests there are usually only about 100 people.
you should have kept the issue at the fore front instead of sulking coz one guy steals he show.
And what if he does and is a ghoonda. All he does is mobilize the crowd, which is usually very small. At least he is there , you and your 100 are not. Which is what matters in the end.
How about a bet! Bring on a crowd of 100 next time. that is the way to react
@ Saleha
My bet. Ask your friend (or u if that is u) not to interfere with the next protest (and thus assure others with action!) and there will be double the number in the protest after.
Can somebody upload this fantastic clip on Youtube
I tried it but douldn’t cus that is flv. file and i dont have flash converter
@ Saleha
No need to get upset! I only asked people to confirm with organisers of protests (their number is often on the advertisement) if he represents them. If they say yes, then we should all be united with him. If they say ‘No’ then we should approach him and tell him to be one of the audience and leave the programme schedule for those who have been awake for nights to organize the event. They can run it better.
He is not indispensable like Musharraf!! If he is the only one, then organisers will request him to come back.
@Kami
Brother why can’t we Pakistanis accept an argument which have some substance in it?
Just read your lines:
“You seem to be follower of Dr Israr and for me he is not a person to look for guidance.”
Mr Rizwan just quoted Dr Israr and you are immediately assuming that he is a follower of Dr Israr.
“I don’t want to enlighten people and annoy anyone in the process; I can only say one thing: listen to your heart and follow common sense. And as far common sense dictates: stay well clear of so called MBBS scholars like Dr Israr.”
Read first part of you sentence and then read the second part, see any difference?
I have only quoted a couple of lines from your posts, does these lines have any substance in them except silly arguments.
Just to clarify, I am not a follower of Dr Israr and I don’t know Mr Rizwan!!
@Admin
Well done mate, we need to tell this nation specially the younger generation about MAD DOGS, its not just one DOG, if this one goes others will take his place!!!
@ Jamil
As far my memory goes, brother Rizwan has mentioned MBBS doctor Israr on many occasions.
I have read a lot on Maudoodi & Israr. I don’t want to write things to annoy people because there are many things that are against common sense.
May I recommend you to watch Jawab Deh interview that brother has given reference and listen to what Dr Israr calls us ordinary Muslims of Pakistan (anyone who knows Quranic Arabic will be stunned with the words of Fasiq, Fajir etc). He calls all this but reluctantly adds ‘yes but still a muslim’. He recommends a different Parliament for non muslims. He says they should be second rate citizens in Pakistan and argues that he doesn’t mind if as a reaction other countries (including US & EU) declare Muslims their second rate citizen.
Now for a minute forget about what his philosophy is, DO YOU REALLY WANT THAT TO HAPPEN TO US??
I have many other references and the only reason I am not mentioning them is: this is not a religious website and such discussions involve a lot of emotions. And as for difference of opinions, watch the link above that I have given where even Javed Iqbal doesn’t deny that his father Allama Iqbal was a Qadiyani (I personally think that Qadiyani is a Made in UK religion!).
The Mad dog has already damaged Laal Masjid at Islamabad and taken thousands of innocent girls’lives in Jaamia Hafsa. So it is a must to clear this filth before starting MELA in this village.
@Admin
I would suggest a new “Mad Dogs” section…
@Jamil
Thanks.
I think Dr. Israr Ahmed has some creditability. However, I disagree with some of his views. For example, he does not believe in participating in the current democratic process. Where as I do. Having said that, I do have a lot of respect for him.
@kami
I apologize for the following verse,
“phool ki patti say kat sakha hai herey ka jigar,
mardey nadan par kalaam-e-narmonazuk bey asar�
But I do standby that statement that your opinion, though respectful, lacks substance, references or evidence.
I like healthy debates but do not wish to indulge in pointless argument, since I do not learn much from them.
I will not reply to your comments.
@ Ahmed Iqbal
if you stand by your comment, then it would be a pleasure not to hear from you too.
Hahahahaha. Well done mate. Now thats what I call passing on the message. The guy has some wonderful sense of humer and is also aware of the political situation. fantastic. Keep it up bro
@kami
I too will not be replying. i was at a number of events of Mush’s team and there was no show of your gang nor the other gang , so i am guessing you are both the same
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