If PMLN not go for the boycott, means they have accept the PCO, they have accept the Musharaf as a president, they have accept the same corrupt system..Nothing will change in Pakistan!!
There are news about the the begining of talk shows.
In my opinion talk shows are banned when they started targeting swat, because madcow was least bothered about the grilling of his cronies.
So we might not expect shows about swat, but everything else would be fine(hope so).
Peja,
I saw his interview with ABC. I’ll can say is:
Sharam tum ko magar nahee aati
PMLN has been pushed into a corner now with SS’s disqualification. Shahbaz has a very hawkish personality, true to his name. I expect them to take the fight to Musharraf now, there is no way out for them except street agitation for the restoration of CJP and judiciary.
Kruman
I agree with you , this is the only good news I heard from Pakistan today , disqualification of SS and then perhaps on Monday NS will force PML-N to bycott the election and go on streets.
It also means the rumor about SS becoming prime minister was false.
@asif
NO there was another rumor which was in essence that NS had a deal with mad dictator before coming to Pakistan and according to that deal SS will be the prime minister , pervez elahi CM punjab. Nawaz Sharif will be bypassed and will rest in Raiwend. Basically meaning BB will be sidelined by Mushuarraf.
All the groups including the political parties ,the civil society the big chunk of which is comprised of various NGOS mostly supported financillay and otherwise to promote thier agenda .Thier agenda is very clear influencing the change that suits to thier interests.Many of the so called intellectuals are being helped and poromoted through thier contacts in the Pakistan establishment.Look at one time in Zia time Mushid Hussain was the most respected intellectual by this so called civil society .He was working in the The DAILY Muslim an english Newspaper published from Islamabad and remained thier till he did Interview of DR AQ KHAN with the collaboration Of ISI.
There are many more ,Never trust them ,yes they are paid by the foriegn agencies ,so they can say what ever they like to become the champions of human rights and free judicary .They play thier respective roles as given by thier masters.Never Ever Trust Them they can be acting as human savors ,look at burney ,the excellent work that he did to help the poor people to be freed from people and now he is the minister in this shamless regime that violated the constitution.These so called NGOS and intellctuals will never work against the wishes of thier foreign masters .
Now the political Patrties ,do not expect any leadership from these parties because of thier weaknesses most of them are because entrenched in the governance system ,For examle the establishment can put workers of religioos parties in the hidedn cells of ISI in the name of fighting terriosim .For the NS and BB they can be tried for coirruption charges, IMRAN Khan has an advantage he was never in the government and also never involved in any obvious financial corruption .
So he is an exception .Also he can be good second line of poltical leaders that could be acceptible to the west in future.
The real heroes are the Following:
.50 + judges refused to take oath
.Young lawers who are the backbone of the lawers movement,PLease do not expect too much from thier leadership
.Young journalsts ,who are doing wonderfull job ,please do not expect too much from the so called famous Anchores (Talat,Hamid mir ,nusrat jawid and mushtaiq minhas,shahid minhas )
.Have faith in the coomon people and keep on doing you believe is best for the indepdence of judiciary ,once we got it ,other thing will follow
Fiind creative ways to keep the lawers movement alive .Ali Ahmed Kurd is facing financial problems
if we do buy the deal theory, then at the time of appealing the NRO can be used to re-enstate SS’s candidancy and hence PML-N won’t be able to back off from NRO also. This will mean BB will say her stand was supported by PML-N now also, the question is what will PML-N get in return?
By disqualifying SS they are blackmailing them because they have told him very clearly that if they boycott they would be disqualified but if they agree to come in elections their appeal against this disqualification would be accepted.
Basically from top to bottom there is a culture of blackmail going on – ISI has history of everyone and they are using it to the maximum to blackmail whoever dares to challenge them. This is what they tried to do on March 9 also but CJ refused.
Musharraf is the biggest blackmailer of the worst kind and he is destroying the institution of politics for his own good and army is watching helplessly or helpfully and are part and parcel of this.
The endgame is simple. USA has to take your nuclear weapons and Musharraf job is to make that easy – after that he would be gone. He basically came for that and USA would never stop supporting him unless he achieves this objective.
Musharraf after that would go to USA and live their forever. His brother and son are there and enjoying life.
Musharraf does not care least about Pakistan.
First Isreali president congratulated him, then Indian Prime Minister and now President Bush has congratulated him.
Also another story is that Os@@ma has threatened the Europeans especially in Afghanistan. Why because they are not toeing the line of USA and have condemned Musharraf. This character Osama gives a statement very conveniently whenever either Bush is in trouble or Musharraf is in trouble. He is no doubt their agent – thats why surprisingly he has not been caught till today although he is a patient of kidney failure and is on dialysis.
Mark my words. – America is not going to spare Pakistan until they secure and take away nuclear weapons for good and Musharraf is their agent.
By disqualifying SS they are blackmailing them because they have told him very clearly that if they boycott they would be disqualified but if they agree to come in elections their appeal against this disqualification would be accepted.
Basically from top to bottom there is a culture of blackmail going on – ISI has history of everyone and they are using it to the maximum to blackmail whoever dares to challenge them. This is what they tried to do on March 9 also but CJ refused.
Musharraf is the biggest blackmailer of the worst kind and he is destroying the institution of politics for his own good and army is watching helplessly or helpfully and are part and parcel of this.
The endgame is simple. USA has to take your nuclear weapons and Musharraf job is to make that easy – after that he would be gone. He basically came for that and USA would never stop supporting him unless he achieves this objective.
Musharraf after that would go to USA and live their forever. His brother and son are there and enjoying life.
Musharraf does not care least about Pakistan.
First Isreali president congratulated him, then Indian Prime Minister and now President Bush has congratulated him.
Also another story is that Os@@ma has threatened the Europeans especially in Afghanistan. Why because they are not toeing the line of USA and have condemned Musharraf. This character Os@@ma gives a statement very conveniently whenever either Bush is in trouble or Musharraf is in trouble. He is no doubt their agent – thats why surprisingly he has not been caught till today although he is a patient of kidney failure and is on dialysis.
Mark my words. – America is not going to spare Pakistan until they secure and take away nuclear weapons for good and Musharraf is their agent.
Peja,
I don’t know if Mush is acting on his own or on behalf of the army.
Here’s my understanding:
- Army feels more comfortable with Sharif brothers than BB who called upon US to cut aid to Pak army
- Mush hates Sharif’s and prefers BB. US also supports BB.
- Chaudhries are benefitting the most though. Sharif’s are disqualified. BB’s credibility is severely dented in Punjab.
At this point I’d say advantage Chaudhries.
What will amount to throwing a monkey wrench in this “deal” though would be if street agitation starts. Then Kiyani has to bundle Mush out of presidency and bring CJP and judges back. That is why Mush has taken a hardline stance against street agitation, demos and protests.
If CJP is not restored he has to wait 23 months before entering politics. It is not a long time in politics.
It is a win-win situation for CJP. If he is restored he is the winner. If not he enters the arena of Pak politics as the strongest political force in 23 months.
People has to suffer longer though. I hope that he is restored soon though.
1.he has the option of leaving if things get out of control-which means that at this point he is satisfied with the money he has stored in accounts everywhere and flying to turkey for retirement would be an option
2.still instead of simply taking that option of retirement he is going to stay and make a last try to suppress people and see where it goes
at this point this is all just a game to him.if he starts losing he can leave safely so why not try to stay and make life miserable for others while you can.In the process of doing so pakistan can destabilise and go to hell he doesnt give a shit
1.he has the option of leaving if things get out of control-which means that at this point he is satisfied with the money he has stored in accounts everywhere and flying to turkey for retirement would be an option
2.still instead of simply taking that option of retirement he is going to stay and make a last try to suppress people and see where it goes
at this point this is all just a game to him.if he starts losing he can leave safely so why not try to stay and make life miserable for others while you can.In the process of doing so pakistan can destabilise and go to hell he doesnt give a ****
I wonder what are the chances of a new Martial Law under a tur o taza COAS . What are the chances of Gen Kiyani being to Musharraf what Yahya was to Ayub, in case there is a popular uprising before or after the elections.
I know the leadership of the two biggest political parties PPP and PMLN must have this in mind and therefore should take a united stand to avoid this possible nightmare and go together in decieding either to participate in the election or to boycott it.
Benazir betrays Pakistan by running in poll: Imran Khan LAHORE, Dec 1 (Reuters) Former prime minister Benazir Bhutto is betraying Pakistan by not joining an election boycott that Pakistan Tehrik-i-Insaf chief Imran Khan said Saturday was key to ousting President Musharraf. “It is a complete case of betrayal,â€? Khan told Reuters in an interview after addressing lawyers in Lahore. “Every day she says there is pre-poll rigging, every day she says there can’t be free and fair elections. She says she doesn’t trust the caretakers, she says the emergency is illegal…And yet she is participating and legitimising the whole process.â€? “We want the whole (election) process to be discredited,â€? Khan added. “To participate…is just playing on his pitch to save him. We are just giving him a lifeline…If all the opposition got together today, the elections would be discredited, then he’s gone, because he’s no longer head of the army…So then we have free and fair elections and hope for the future.â€? Khan says Bush’s backing for Musharraf is compounding Pakistan’s problems. “If they do not ask for the reinstatement of the judges, they are playing Musharraf’s game. Basically the impression is George Bush’s administration does not want an independent judiciary, because then they won’t be able to control the government like a puppet supposedly to fight their war on terror.â€? “This movement eventually will turn against the U.S. too, like the Iranian revolution.â€? (Posted @ 15:45 PST)
every body seems to be criticising political parties,but i think we the awaam shld be held responsible for our biased judgments again and agains….DONT POPLE IN SINDH KNOW HOW FILTHY THIS BB IS …HOW MUCH CORRUPT AND SELF CENTERED WOMAN SHE IS….DONT PEOPLE IN KARACHI KNOW ABOUT BRUTALITIES OF ALTAF H…..AND DONT NS SUPPORTERS KNOW THAT HE IS A MEAN AND SELFISH BUISNESSMAN NOTHING ELSE…..but all the junta is blind folded in there biasness and wouldnt vote for anybody else but there beloved politicians….we give all these politicians the chance to continuet there malicious ambisions…
as long as we dont go for the alternatives i.e may be imran khan,and new leadership emerging from judiciary…..
as long as we keep on supporting the tried and tested old black sheeps ….we awaaam will suffer….we have to setaside our biased sympathies and inclinations….
but its not possilbel without the literally movement…education emergency (As ik put it) is needed in our country…+relegious teachings and relegious pious life needs to be propogated (tableeghi jamaat is the one doing real good work in this regard)
we need to fix the awaaam mentality first and stop putting the false hopes on tried and tested corrupt old black sheeps (bb,ns,althaf hussain ,chaudharies,qazi,fazlu etc)
@imran malik
I was just waiting if the political parties could categorically say they will participate in the electins because of their party workers, or because of 1985 experience, or because it is a golden opportunity they won’t ever find. so that we can put our only concentration towards some non-political leaders. I think civil society should not wait any more now. they should push the lawyers, journalists and others to come forward and lead the show as they did during the CJP case. We can still come out in numbers. Just plan in advance and give a call to move in front of supreme court with proper arrangement of staying there. (incllude khimas and eatables for days). and plan to stay there until the issue is resolved in people’s favour. i remember, people from different sectors mostly students did gather during emergency in the vicinity of Parliament House. Leaders like Imran Khan, Aitezaz ahsan, Munir Malik, Justice Wajih could motivate more people to come. The first three have seen the worst days in custody, and they won’t have anything even close to that.
I think we have the full opportunity after December 15, since emergency would be lifted and there should not be any problem of arranging gatherings after all, Mush has to show outside Pakistan, there are no restrictions on political parties for holding gathering and running election campaigns.
just seen Fazlu Diesel on Geo addressing a conference. He spoke bad about honourable judges who did take oath under PCO……as soon as he did that he was booooed ….after which he cut his speech short and left with a sheepish/looser smile on his face….
it was worth watching…..diesel really humiliated…made me really feel good
just seen Fazlu Diesel on Geo addressing a conference. He spoke bad about honourable judges who did NOT take oath under PCO……as soon as he did that he was booooed ….after which he had to cut his speech short and left with a sheepish/looser smile on his face….
it was worth watching…..diesel really humiliated…made me really feel good
in our whole argument about PCO and Martial Law we must not forget the 2 real culprits, Unconstitutional CJ D@gar and AG. As D@gar called AG Qayum and gave him insider info that the bench will rule against Mush…which led to Mush imposing Martial Law.
Are you sure it was Dog@ar or was it Javed Iqbal – some say it was Javed Iqbal thats why he was retired with all pensions and has been appointed as Chairman Pakistan Press Council for three years and this post is equivlaent to a Supreme Court judge.
Fazlu also pointed to CJ in APDM London
Interestingly BB boycotted APDM london for Fazlu
Now Fazlu says if BB dont contest only then we will decide so
BN and Fazlu had shown good working relationship in past when he became maulana diesel
Reasons of such shrewed act: Both are trained politicians with political background and political inheritance from their fathers.
unfortunately Army this time does want to support either of them!!
i had heard it was D@gar. my source reliable but ant be 100% though
also JI was house arrested for some time after 3 Nov. he took up the press post much later and i remember Real CJ praising JI for his decision. so cant be him
@Tanweer:
I think we have the full opportunity after December 15, since emergency would be lifted and there should not be any problem of arranging gatherings after all, Mush has to show outside Pakistan, there are no restrictions on political parties for holding gathering and running election campaigns.
———————————————–
This regime is evil. They have selected their dates incisively. By the third week of December all student hostels will be empty. Similarly bars will present a deserted looks due to winter vacation. Also, here in the west, holiday season will be in full swing mitigating response to any excesses committed in Pakistan. If that is not enough, immediately after elections Muharram will start. It would need bit of creative thinking from the likes of IK and others to keep the movement active.
By the time Muharram is over we’ll have a civilian govt. in place whose existence will depend on crushing the movement for restoration of judiciary. From that point on, Musharraf can simply sit and enjoy.
We should not underestimate the shrewdity of this regime.
But then all hope is not lost. Dictators are prone to make mistakes, nay, blunders. And our retired commando is no exception.
As a COAS Mush could have ruled another 5-10 years but now its not possible. So he goes in Dec or Jan or in next few months, he has to go anyway. But our main concern is judiciary restoration which largely depends how and how early he goes. He has already made all blunders and mistakes that were needed!
i don’t think we should be waiting around till 15 december. the time is now, what we need is the political parties ie ik and ns to build a momentum which weakens mush and his cronies and buy the time emergency is lifted they is a juggernaut effect where people march in they thousands if not tens of thousands to free the judges.
-Shame on the peoples like Nasim Ashraf (destroyed pak cricket team already),Kashmala,Saif Ali presenting us.
-Slam on Ahtezaz Ahsan and ch. iftikhar and media anchors like Talat,kashif,Mushtaq minhas,Dr. Shahid and Hamid mir
the majority of seats in na to pppp and make bb the govt…..it will be the same kind of set up as was in 1988..
NS was the cm of punjab then and pervez elahi will be now…
and plan is to give NS the opposition…
if he bycotts then there wouldnt be any oppsoiton ..may be they will leave independent candidates to make opposition
but there is drawback..the bb and mush wouldnt get together ..and pervez elahi will conspire against bb in punjab….
so it wouldnt be a smooth ride…..
and there is a possiblity that this plan get ruined altogether before its execution..bc of agitation by lawyers.imran and hopefully by NS (not sure about his intention at the moment though ..he is feeling pressure from party workers who want to get to the parliament.)
@imran malik
Is this the “good news soon” you had hinted at? :p
Anyways, you said:
“NS (not sure about his intention at the moment though ..he is feeling pressure from party workers who want to get to the parliament.)”
I don’t buy that. Sounds like prepping an excuse for the future. Sounds like Qazi ala “Mein kiya karoon, Shoora nay fasila kiya hay.” Of course he will face pressure of his ticket holders cause they are “politicians” and want to grab a chair as soon as possible. But that is a given. And he being the “leader” is not supposed to give in to that kind of thing. I am sure the pressure he is facing from Mush & Co. is a lot more…
another great video of altaf bhai before 1992 operation at Minar-e-Palistan. The
feudal oligarchy feared the MQM’s Philoshphy of Realism and
Practicalism, and it’s representation of the 98% middle class and downtrodden people of pakistan.
Just saw this yesterday in Dawn and was amazed. Remember the old “sugar� crisis when billions were transferred from the pockets of the poor to the accounts of the sugar mill owners, o.e cabinet members? Remember how government argued how helpless if was as the prices of sugar had risen in the global market?
Well, guess what? Now that the sugar prices are falling internationally, what do you think your government did? Was it happy for the common man?? No sir, no can do! Adamant that the common man gets no relief, they are making sure the prices DON’T come down. Sure, the excuse used would be we are helping the farmers but that is a cr*ak. They won’t get a cent. It’s only to keep the pockets of sugar mill owners lined up…
@nota,
The excerpt below from the link that you have posted above explains the reason why common man is not out on the streets yet:
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Lower-income Pakistanis have shied away, out of grim economic reality. “We don’t have time to go and protest,” said Aftab, the driver. “If we do that, who will earn our money for us?”
—-
Shujjat says that people only want bread and employment – I want to ask him – are we animals that we only want food and shelter – we have no rights of a place where we can get justice
NS will offer BB the premiership when they meet on Monday. He has said that he’ll go to any length to convince BB to boycott the elections, as it is time to save the country.
If he does this I’ll salute NS. IK should also cool down the rhetoric and sincerely try to get BB on their side.
BB is thoroughly corrupt, but still better than Mush.
@clhussain
Most of our politicians have always been of dubious characters. We know more about them now is due to the media. I am still waiting for AA and Kurd’s announcement on their participation in elections. These two must not participate at any cost, otherwise, the lawyers movement will be a lost cause because these are the frontline leaders.
It was good to know tha Just(R) Tariq Mehmood is out of jail and is doing well. His views are clear and refreshing.
About the nomination papers filed by Aitzaz Ahsan and Ali Ahmad Kurd, both under detention, he said political impetus was necessary to put the government under pressure.
“Personally I don’t have any political ambitions, but I also believe that bar bodies can’t substitute for political parties. Both have a role in their own sphere. It is the achievement of a common objective where the two should meet. Whoever is fighting for the independence of the judiciary and restoration of the Constitution is on the same side. It does not matter what the channel is, we will all collectively be the beneficiaries of this struggle’s success,� reasoned Justice Mahmood.
Now Imran offers an NRO to BB,or was he merely being sarcastic.
Towards the end of his speech, Khan offered an olive branch to People’s Party leader Benazir Bhutto, saying “I would go around and ask everyone to forgive all those corruption cases which she’s afraid of, if she joins us in boycotting the elections�.
@nota
“Balkanization, not Talibanization, is the real threat facing Pakistan”
The root cause of all the political troubles in Pakistan is the unresolved issue of who is to reign supreme in Pakistan, Civilians or the Military establishment. The only thing that can impede the otherwise impending catastrophe in the form of Balkanization is the forceful assertion of the Civilian Supremacy over the state of affairs backed collectively by all the political forces or at least by the two bigger political parties the PPP, PMLN who have roots in all the four provinces, by participating or boycotting the forth coming elections together. Pakistan must not be allowed to become another failed state like Yugoslavia and especially so because it is a Nuclear power and its demise would further destabilise the already embattled the region.
to bycott or not bycott
———————–
Let us see both scenarios.
1. In case of bycott from BB,NS,IK and MMA (excluding Fazlu). There will be two emerging scenarios. In first case all the bycotting parties will start a movement against Mush and restoration of judiciary. Million dollar question is “Can the judiciary be restored to pre 3 november status?” If so that will in itself be a revolution. Which affectively means that our society had made giant leap towards rule of law and democracy.
Passimist in me says that this is not possible. We are yet a corrupt nation and we not yet reached a situation like this.
Optimist in me says that this is quite possible specially in current situation. We have made several “impossibles” , not only “possible” but reality. Who would have thought 50+ good people are in this nation, who would have though a mighty general will be crying in front of the whole world.
—
Second scenario in case of bycott is that, none of the objectives of bycott are achieved. Mush remains as president, elections held as usual. PML-Q, MQM and Fazlu will make into the parliament. They will have 100% seats, and will go for the 18th amendment first day. PCO will be approved, and our heros (judges) will no longer be looked by the world as real judges. In my opinion this is the emerging scenario. However after the elections we shall see the real struggle all our heros will be released and they will be starting a real struggle with the common man. BB and NS will have follow CJ.
@commoner
“I would go around and ask everyone to forgive all those corruption cases which she’s afraid of, if she joins us in boycotting the electionsâ€?” certainly was a strange statement to make. No wonder the clarification/explaination…
2. In case BB and NS do not bycott. The situation will be really complex. Nobody will know who is with Mush and who is with people. There will be a lot mudslinging against all the politicions. Again I see two scenarios in this case.
In first scenario, BB is denied clear majority in Sind and Center (or perhaps only Center). PML-Q given clear majority in Punjab (specially if NS bycotts). In this scenario BB is going to raise hell about the rigging and along with NS,IK there will again be a movement. Although there won’t be any clear objectives of this movement. But appearently Mush will have to leave in this case. No guarantee of restoration of Judges.
—-
In second scenario , BB will take clear majority in Sind, and will have majority in center. She would like to become prime minister however there is a bar against 3rd prime minister. This will require 18th amendment and here comes the PCO. Now let us assume with PML-Q, PPP , Fazlu and MQM there is a clear 2/3rd majority. In that case BB will get NRO along with 3rd time prime minister in bargain for PCO approval. However she is going to try to get rid of 58-2(b).
This looks to me the most probable scenario.
However I would like to look at the third case. BB and NS both take part in election. And now for some unknown reasons, BB takes majority in Sind , and NS gets majority (thin majority) in Punjab, NS also gets sizeable seats in National Assembly. That will be a very complex scenario. Now let’s assume without NS there is no 2/3rd majority possible. i.e. NS takes 1/3 of the seats as appossed to BB taking 45-55% seats.
So there are no chances of Mush getting any repreive from the assembly. BB & NS will be negotiating a lot of things. BB may like to become 3rd time prime misniter and if somehow BB+NS+MMA makes a 2/3rd things will be really interesting.
@ It was perhaps a gaffe. It reminds me of one from Bhutto, while addressing a public rally he said about Nusrat Bhutto in his typical moving style “Woh kaum ki beh*n hay , woh aap sab ki beh*n hey, woh meri bhi beh*n hey.Kat do Kat do(pointing to the media to censor it)”. Imran perhaps missed to say “kat do kat do”. LOL
It is a long struggle but I am hundred percent sure that victory would be that of truth.
I believe that if BB and Fazlu refuse to boycott then NS should take part in the elections fully to deny them getting a two third majority so that they are not able to pass 18th amendment.
Fazlu has ambitions of becoming PM – he should be even denied to become CM and everyone should try to help PPP, ANP and PMLN to win in NWFP so that Fazlu is finished once for all.
This is if they do not go for boycott.
Give Musharraf and Q tough time as much as possible on every front.
@malik
Thanks.
So let’s say BB & Fazlu do not bycott the election and NS/IK/JI do.
This will be very complex situation. So we will see a lot of activity on the street in terms of agitation as well as voice for the restoration of judiciary. And at the same time there will be election activity with same force. So in this case there will be two situations , first before the election. In this situation we shall see some big demonstrations and pressure on Mush to release the judges. BB will also by fiery during election campaign. I would expect despite all this elections will go ahead.
In the situation after the election, in first scenario, BB takes the majority, in both Sind and Center this brings us to the same situation seeing BB bargaining for 3rd time Prime Minister and 58-2(b) in return of PCO validation with PML-Q+MQM . Fazlu behaving as opposition. It would be interesting to see though in all the above cases what Fazlu gets. I think he will be marginalized in all the cases. He is now useless for everybody.
In the second scenario , BB looses to PML-Q this will be similar to one of the above case. BB going to go back to street , join NS and IK who will already be waiting for her.
@clhussain
I believe Fazlu is going to marginalized by all the parties in all cases. At the moment he has become a useless person for everybody in Pakistan. In case of rigged election.
1. Fazlu is not going to get anything or few seats in NWFP and Balochistan. Establishment would like to give more seats to ANP and PML-Q. PPP will share a number of seats in NWFP as well. So Fazlu will get maximum 10-15 seats maximum in NWFP assemble and 2-3 in National Assembly.
2. In case of “free and fair” election he is going to get nothing.
So that is why I have stopped worrying about Fazlu anymore. He is sort of “used” c*****.
With the changed situation in Pakistan, establishment does not need to frighten US & west about growing terrorism in Pakistan. In fact now they need to show them that they are successful in controlling extermism in Pakistan. Hence they would like to get “moderate” parties getting majority in NWFP and Balochistan. Fazlu is a lost man like his boss (Mush).
oye kuj na hosi! BB will take part in elections, JI will take part, JUI will take part, MQM will take part, PMLQ will take part and PMLN would only wish that they had taken part. everything is running like clockwork planning. BB will at least be able to get some say in the next govt by having a few more ministers in the cabinet. mian NS and SS would be left hi n dry wid especially SS cursing his kismet to be the bro of NS.
free and fair elections to PPP and PMLN r when they win it! when was the last time, anytime either of these buggers have ever accepted defeat magnanimously?
mainly if we win, it was free and fair. if they win it was massive rigging and ISI supported!
I am getting sick of all these power hungry dracolas, who just for their personal interests are talking of our secrets openly.
One thing is far sure, the one who digs well for otherz, would fall into it.
Allah is the Almighty & who knows about The Almightys plans.
Pakistan is passing thru one of the worst times, when most of our socalled leaders are acting as “Raja Ghidh of Bano Qudsiyya”
………Yes, reinstatement of pre-PCO judiciary is crucial. Don’t boycott, unite, win, form a government and then bring back the pre-PCO judiciary.
……….
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The writer is quite naive, My only one question is Why BB&NS would go for pre-nov3 judiciary after getting into power with 2/3 majority?
They were never in favor of independent & powerful institutions both judiciary & army. And they will never allow, because then their every movement would be checked & it would be great hurdle in exercizing their powers for their personal gains.
Somehow few writers are suggesting that in order to revert the PCO , a 2/3rd majority is required in the assemblies. The premise is based on the argument that since “Sham Court” (SC) has declared PCO as valid and an amendment has been made in the constitution under the PCO therefore in order to remove that amendment a new amendment will required.
This is obviously absolutely rubbish, it is established norm and fact that a PCO requires an approval from the assembly with a 2/3rd majority and the validation of PCO by the court does not carry any substance as soon as constitution is restored. That is why 8th and 17th amendment were required.
The News & Jang are trying their best pave the ground for elections.
Its their agenda, every other column & editorial is about the benefits of election.
Both BB&NS were PM s 4 times & neither of them completed their term even once. So I don’t have much hopes from them that they would do quite opposite of that now.
I can only wish for what Javed Ch. wrote in the last line. rest is all very obvious and known to politicians as well. it only the AWAM whom they betting on!
..The conclusion of last year’s game, said one participant, was that there are no palatable ways to forcibly ensure the security of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons –
Most of the serious writers are continuously giving warnings to both BB&NS that this time the AWAM would behave altogether differently so do mend the ways of your politics of greed.
BB&NS were away from AWAM for about 8 years & they might be still living in the era of 88-99, thats where BB&NS would make a mistake!!!!!!!!!
Imran Khan in Focus with Faeza told that there is petition by lawyers of all bar councils there should be a boycott of elections and they are going to press Aitzaz Ahsan also not to take part in teh elections.
Imran is very clear that elections under PCO are illegal and whoever would take part would be particpating in an illegal activity and that Tehrik Insaf does not want to be part of it at all.
Good news is that from next week all teh Geo programmes are going to return including Capital TAlk, Kamran Khan Kay Saath, Meray Mutabiq and Jawabdeh. Last night I saw Hum Sub Umeed say hain. Also in news today there was an article today by Ansar Abassi. So Geo did not compromise
Best shot of Geo yesterday was the speech of Fazlu when he was booed and it was shown all over teh world when FAzlu was jeered.
There is only one solution to the problems of pakistan .The solution is as under:
.NO Compromise on PRINCIPLES EVEN EVERY POLITICIAN DOES COMPROMISE
. WITH OUT restoration of pre 03 november JUdiciary we will never get any thing except the rule of jungle .the power will be exercised by the people who have more guns i.e ARMY Chief of Staff even if the COS is the husband ,brother or the son of the prime minster and he will always obediently follow the dictation of his foreign masters
.We should not compromise ,let us not betray our hero judges and keep on strugglling till we get our objectives ,free judiacry through these heros or thier followers
@ clhussain
Yes imran khan is firm on his stand. I think he has got the support of the lawyers support. Most of the people were thinking that he has made a mistake, but the news that we see suggest that it might not be a mistake after all.
Totally agree. In all this “what if …” business we are forgetting that these elections are b*stard child of a b*stard and will continue to be illegitimate no matter who gets married to whom after the fact. This is not a game so let’s stop treating it as one. Whosoever wins these “elections,” we the people are going to loose and pay a big price for it — be it sooner or later.
Totally agree. In all this “what if …” business we are forgetting that these elections are b*stard child of a b*stard and will continue to be illegitimate no matter who gets married to whom after the fact. This is not a game so let’s stop treating it as one. Whosoever wins these “elections,” we the people are going to loose and pay a big price for it — be it sooner or later.
Are you all saying BB is right when she says boycotting would help Mush legitimize his rule? I say nothing can legitimize it. If taking part in an illegal election is the only way we see to rid us of this cancer, then I say let us die of that cancer for we deserve it.
Pakistan ka matlab kia ,
musharaf ko bol ab tho ja
I am just waiting for a pure democratic dawn in Pakistan dont know when i see or either my children will see But after seeing a person such like CIA Choudary Ifthikar Ahemed i m hopefull but when i see such politician like BB, Mulla Milatry ithad and all i be sad
I hundred percent agree with you – whatever happens we would not accept this elections and if politicians want to participate in it they can but in a way it would be good : at least for once we would be able to remove this lota politicians once for all and people would know who can be bought and who are selfish.
Actually ISI and other agencies are planting these news about America coming into Pakistan to take nukes so that we get afraid and we accept Musharraf.
To occupy Pakistan America needs one million troops and they just cannot do so: plus with a very very hostile enviornment it would be impossible for them to invade.
They can take only if Pervez Musharraf and some of the generals have been bought and they themselves hand them over to them in return for money and life in America.
Aitezaz Ahsan: House arrest extended for another 30 days.
I think we will have a free and fair election, getting rid of judiciary and all major opponents in jail or disqualified.
Actually I don’t care, because elections won’t be free and fair, and I won’t achieve anything from these elections. I need my judiciary back… Justice awaits for the families of missing pakistanis, Media needs the independence it had had a month ago, then I will think whom to vote in any election.
I am sure that folks on this forum have seen this statement from Bush (courtesy of The News):
—
Direct US action in Pakistan possible against Osama: Bush
—
All I can say is that “bravo to our leadership for giving US and the West the right for this much interference in our country”. I am sure that there will be some half-hearted response ossued from our foreign office along the lines that “we are a soverign country and will not allow any inteference from any external entity”. The fact of the matter is that Mush has sold this country to Bush for a mere $10 billion and the irony is that all the money went to the army and nothing tricked down to the masses, but that is a different debate.
PMLN held a rally in bhai pheru where NAwaz Sharif addressed a large crowd. Threats of a boycott are not enough. Nawaz Sharif must mount pressure on the streets.
It does not make sense. If Gen. Kiyani is pro-US and has Washington’s nod, then has US ignored his role in supporting these militant groups or this policy of letting militants loose is actually part of a larger strategy to create militant pockets to justify military presence. God knows what it is but one think is obvious: Pakistan is in deep s**t trouble and will remain so unless its citizens take charge in their own hands.
its again a double game by US. limited attack for nukes if feels chaos in country or presence of Osama.
If army is sincere then before people going to street protest or giving impression of country in chaos, ask Mush to leave and restore judiciary who will take care of future elections. only peace can bring peace -
Guys Nawaz Sharif has decided to contest Shame elections (The News). Its a shame and proved that there was a deal between Mush and nawaz.Now only IK the last hope of pak is standing alone with the judges.
NS is trying to convince no party participates in elections, whereas BB says we should not leave place for any other party to win in elections.
And the people of Pakistan are being made to delay their reaction over their forthcoming decision. Do you think we have any other choice than waiting for December 15th or 16th?
I sincerely believve that time is right for peacefull revolution, let us call it a GREEN REVULATION. All walk It is possible if it is done collectively simple.
I don’t think NS would be successful in convincing the parties especially PPP ( and the least significant JUI(F)). So most probably we should not rely on him that much. We have to show that we are not polticians driven society. We have our own thoughts and we wish themm to be fulfilled. If politicians could feel convince about our thoughts, we would welcome them.
Correction-
People from all walk of life must join together and should bring about this green revolution by shutting down the goverment completely. It is only possible if done collectively.
Though naieve but wishful thinking.
It seems that NS will reverse the decision of not taking part in elections based on “extreme pressure” from party leaders. This is interesting development. IK will most likely be left on its own because he is a principled individual and will most likely not back down from his stance.
First of all allow me to congratulate you on becoming a chief of staff of the Armed Forces of Pakistan. Under current political situation you are the most pwerful man and I sincerely believe that you can use your authority to change the current messy political situation in our country. You have been bestowed upon this power by the people of Pakistan and we expect that you will use this power very wisely and carefully, that is in the best interest of Pakistan. Unlike your predecessor, who has broken militay code of conducts and has violated the constitution of Pakistan twice, you will exercise this special power given to you by the people of pakistan with great care and with in the context of military codes of conducts and the constitution of Pakistan. Having said that, I sincerely believe that you can bring psitive change very quickly. As a servant of Pakistani people you can take the following steps to resolve the complex and serious situation i Pakistan.
1. Tell mr Mush to leave imediatly.
2. Restore the Judiciary as of Nov 3.
3. Reistate the sacked judges.
4. Establish impartial care-taker govt. to condut fair,free and tranparent election.
5. Free all detainees
6. and lastly free the media.
By taking these action you will be doing a huge favor to Pakistan and the Pakistan Awam. In y humble opinion this is the only way to quickly and effectively resolve the current situation. Pakistan is in great danger and evn it’s existence is threatened . I am sure that you are aware of these dangers posed to our coutry. Pakistan is under attack boh externally and internally. These evil fores are out there to destroy our nation and I am very much scared. My fear is real and genuine.
I want to bring to your attention the recent report written in one of the western news paper. The report is about the occupation of all provinces of pakistan, Capturing Pakistan Army and Other important personalities and taking control of our nuclear assets. Frightening!!! Is not it??
I understad that some of the polticians are not playing their positive role as well and there are some bad judges, But majority of Pakistanis are good and desire positve change in the country. Our army can play a positve role under your command by acting on the steps I have outlined above.
I know your are a good soldier and your job is to defend the borders and not to participate in politics unlike your Predcessor has done it for the past 9 years. In doing so, he (Mush) not only has weakend and tarnished the image of our great armed forces, but also has braught our nation to the brink of bloody civil war. The image of Pakistan and the name of our armed forces has been tarnished in the global arena. I hope you will be able to bring political stability and peace in Pakistan simply by aopting these steps. I furhter hope that all branches of Pakista armed forces will get stronger under your cmmand and will defend the borders 24/7
DO NOT Believe the politicians or coulmnists ,they have thier own problems but one thing is extremly clear they are just actors ,and thier job is to perform different roles at different occasions at the direction of thier masters and naw -a days foreign masters have all the might so they follow these masters in accordance with Public Relations SPIN Doctrines .
We should know that we have no choice but to win the restoration of our hero judges,
be patient and keep on efforts what ever you can to expose these sold out lot ,
Poor IK. Seems that he is all alone now. If NS and clowns think that they have support of the people and can work it out with Dracula mush, they are living in fantasy land. Shame on NS for not listening to millions of people, but to some power hungry associates. NS may suffer the heaviest defeat ever.
IK is there & doing what should be done & hes alone but yet hes so influential that every one says that hes “inexperienced”. And don’t know that even the experienced politicians would be exposed & grilled very soon by pvt TV channels, PTV would be there for their blind supporters self-satisfaction.
@imran malik
—nota on November 30th, 2007 5:31 am
—
—Seems to me NO boycott. By the way, wasn’t —the old deadline for 4 days which has now —passed.
—APDM gives boycott deadline
—* Will boycott polls if judges not restored
—by Dec 15
—* Samiul Haq says no poll boycott unless
— Benazir and Fazl convinced
—imran malik on November 30th, 2007 5:41 am
—@nota
—BECHCHEY KI JAAAAN LO GEY KYA…..
—nawaz has announced bycott.dont worry and
—dont read too much into the statements
—made by iqbal and co…
bachcha is in NAPPIES these days…he has loose-loose situation…he knows he can’t get to govt….but trying to choose least destructive way…
popular support vs parliament and political power are what he is pondering….+ his pml-n oppurtunists are giving him hard time….
but one thing they need to realize is what wajihuddin said that thses elections wouldnt
hold for long and there would be reelction anyways in 6 months…
Whats wrong with this BB? everyday she says the same thing. Again I saw her on a foreign tv saying that if the west doesnot support moderate forces in pakistan, militants will take over and they are still advancing freely. This BB is desperate for power. she will surely give way to some invasion, as US is thinking about it seriously than ever before. BB is a …………, can’t even think of a decent word.
Ms BHUTTO, A FREE JUDICIARY BUT DETAINED JUDGES???
Dear Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto,
I was absolutely shocked and amazed at your latest statement regarding the judiciary. How could you, of all people, say that you believed in an independent judiciary BUT that personalities did not matter? If personalities did not matter then why was Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry removed? Why were some judges locked up whereas others were not? If personalities did not matter then why is Musharraf waging a personal war against the CJ? You do not have to be a genius to figure out the reason. How can you separate the personalities from the institution? What you have on Constitution Avenue right now is a besieged and helpless building. The unfortunate but harsh truth is that right now we are a besieged nation as well.
Ms. Bhutto, I am writing to you because your statement has shocked and disturbed me to the extent that I feel I have no option but to reach out to you in this manner. I would like to remind you, since you seem to have forgotten, that you too were the victim of a corrupt judiciary. If Justice Iftikhar had been the CJ of the Supreme Court at that time then perhaps your father would never have been hanged. Had the entire bench been like the present one then there would have been a unanimous judgment. But the judgment was not unanimous – it was a 4 to 3 split – just one judge too many on the wrong side. One more upright personality on the right side and our history would have been different. So yes, personalities certainly do matter.
Ms. Bhutto, I am writing to you in desperation because I am the daughter of Late Justice Safdar Shah, who was one of the three dissenting judges.
…continued
Ex-army officer,
I’d like you, general Durrani, general Talat Masood and general Ali Kulli Khan to go and meet general Kiyani and express your views in person.
Do I have your permission to post this letter on my blog?
Qabil,
I’d like you, general Durrani, general Talat Masood and general Ali Kulli Khan to go and meet general Kiyani and express your views in person.
Do I have your permission to post this letter on my blog?
@ imran malik
I don’t think mush is too worried, i might be wrong though; a couple of days ago it was reported that kiyani changed some faces in the army, but than he met with Mush, and explained to him everything. Mush has the backing of US; the only way to get rid of him is to have a massive boycott of elections, which is very unlikely. Mush is Khush at the moment.
@zenith
There is also the view that those changed were the ones who had expressed reservations about declaring a state of emergency. Seeing the clip of Kiyani with Mush in the meeting afterwards, Kiyani looked like a bl**dy servant sitting with his master. Honestly I did not recognize him and had to ask and reconfirm. So what is Kiyani — master or a servant? I have no clue. So far everything I have seen shows me he is the latter. Hope I am wrong.
(That *** filter again — excuse the dashes)
@zenith
There is also the view that those changed were the ones who had expressed reservations about declaring a state of emergency. Seeing the cl-ip of Kiyani with Mush in the meeting afterwards, Kiyani looked like a blo-ody ser-vant sit-ting with his master. Honestly I did not recognize him and had to ask and re-confirm. So what is Kiyani — master or a ser-vant? I have no clue. So far everything I have seen shows me he is the latter. Hope I am wrong.
@ nota
Nadeem Taj was reported to have been changed along with others by kiyani, who was a close associate of mush. The thing that surprised me was that Mush had only recently appointed him and others before his departure. Why a change so soon, but i guess this is just a holks, probably another implementation of the foriegn dictation. At the moment all appear to be crooks.
I think we tend to forget who Kiyani is and expect some decency from him which I don’t believe is going to come. He got to where he is by being the ultimate “yes” man, doing whatever was asked of him no matter how repugnant the act was. And if he does act, it won’t be because of some moral pangs but out of self-interest or following someone’s orders…
Guys, I want to understand the situation.
BB is saying that boycott will help mush, so she is participating for the restoration of democracy(blah blah..)
I m just thinking, should all the better politician, like IK and Qazi leave them, they will ruin the country… but, if they participate, they will still ruin it, but may be they will have some chance to put pressure in the parliment.
For all his rhetoric of enlightened moderation and vows to ensure that democracy would see the light of day again in Pakistan, General Musharraf has proved to be no better than the other despicable military dictators who have abused this unfortunate country.
The façade of a volatile situation (courtesy the vicariously fought “War on Terror�) was created to justify the imposition of ‘emergency-plus’ (aka martial law), a concoction of the miserably inept government that, they hoped, would be a quick-fix to the real thorn in the General’s side– the independent judiciary and media.
Come 3rd November 2007, and within hours the face of the judiciary had changed with new, hand-picked, pro-Musharraf judges taking oath under the Provisional Constitutional Order (PCO, a Machiavellian concept instituted by the last military dictator, Zia ul Haq). Those judges who refused to take oath under the PCO were placed under house arrest. Lawyers, civil rights activists and ordinary civilians who took to the streets, to protest the imposition of martial law, were also whisked off to prison, but not before being brutally beaten. The country’s most popular private television networks were gagged, and the GEO network was eventually ordered to shut down all operations.
All the while General Musharraf maintained that whatever was being done was in the “best interests� of the country.
Does it also serve these “best interests� to beat and torture lawyers in prison? On Saturday 24th November 2007, a renowned lawyer, Munir A. Malik, was shifted to hospital with total renal failure. Rumours persist that he was either poisoned whilst in prison or punched on his kidneys, eventually leading to his condition.
He, and so many other heroes like him, remain remarkably defiant despite all they are going through.
The few who have been released tell chilling accounts of the mental and physical torture to which lawyers are subjected. Their only ‘crime’ being that they stood up for the rule of law and democracy in Pakistan.
What of the fate of the hundreds of lawyers and civil rights activists still languishing in dungeons around the country? Their fight is our fight! When they raise their heads to face the brutality of the police they sacrifice themselves for every Pakistani, and for the rights and liberties of all citizens of this country.
Alas, despite martial law and the hundreds of jawans (soldiers) nestled in their sandbag cocoons in every nook and cranny of the country, two bombs exploded in Rawalpindi last Saturday, and there has been a rocket attack on Turbat airport on Tuesday 27th November 2007.
Military training must be lacking severely, though no real surprises there as, the only thing the Army has done in the 60 traumatic years of Pakistan’s independence is lose wars, reign over and ruin the country and do the American’s bidding.
The state of things in Pakistan clearly point towards a deranged group of individuals at the helm of affairs, with not a care that the future of the country is at stake, nor for the suffering of millions. The Constitution, alongwith all fundamental human rights, have been suspended until such time as the General has had his fill of power.
Clearly, the long arm of Musharraf’s law is long enough for murder and torture, but it is just too short for justice!
I had the chance of watching wolf long time ago and somehow she gave me the creeps. Looking at her Wiki page brought that all back…
No I am not arguing what she is saying is to be ignored. I just like to keep in mind what kind of animal I am listening to so I can try to separate honest opinion from propaganda. Political consultant
Wolf was involved in Bill Clinton’s 1996 re-election bid where she brainstormed with the Clinton-Gore team about ways to reach “soccer moms” and other female voters.
During Al Gore’s unsuccessful bid for the 2000 US presidency, Wolf was hired as a consultant to target female voters, reprising her role in the Clinton campaign. Wolf’s ideas and participation in the Gore campaign generated considerable media coverage and criticism. According to a report by Michael Duffy in Time Magazine, “Wolf [was] paid a salary of $15,000 a month…in exchange for advice on everything from how to win the women’s vote to shirt-and-tie combinations.” This article was the original source of the widely reported claim that Wolf was responsible for Gore’s “three-buttoned, earth-toned look.” The Duffy article did not mention “earth tones.” The Time article and others also claimed that Wolf had developed the idea that Gore is “a beta male who needs to take on the alpha male in the Oval Office”.[6]
In an interview with Melinda Henneberger in the New York Times, Wolf denied ever advising Gore on his wardrobe. Wolf herself claimed she mentioned the term “alpha male” only once in passing and that “it was just a truism, something the pundits had been saying for months, that the vice president is in a supportive role and the President is in an initiatory role…I used those terms as shorthand in talking about the difference in their job descriptions.”
The Mian BB meeting is being held now and the outcome is yet to be known. NS did say that he will try to convince BB to boycott, but BB said she would tell him not to boycott.
NEWS
Turkish president is meeting with IK and will meet NS and BB after they finish their own meeting. Earlier american ambassador met with NS. Something fishy is going on in islamabad.
@zenith,
I have been trying to find out the purpose of Gul’s visit. Initially I though it might be to do with dictator’s relocation to Turkey. It seems that it is partially true however there seems to be some sinister design in his visit as well. So at the moment whole Pakistan opposition is sort of being controlled by foreign countries.
BB is controlled by US.
NS is controller by KSA.
Guess what who Gul is controlling? Pervez Musharraf? NO. (He is controlled by anyone who has the remote control
Gul is here to control Qazi Hussain Ahmed. Strangely true to their way JI is trying to hide this. Gul’s meeting with Qazi is not being reported as prominently as meeting with other opposition leaders. Gul has nothing to do with NS, IK or BB.
@ imran malik
ur right, but Y is he meeting with opp parties? Probably on the request of Mush. Shame on the government. They should change the name from pakistan to Mazakistan.
Mush wants to have consensus on his relocation, so he wants Gul tp meet all opposition parties so that if any party comes into power, it has no problem over the relocation of Mush. Does any body know, he will be meeting PML-Q as well or meeting Mush was sufficient ?
“The goal of a good society is to structure social relations and institutions so that cooperative and generous impulses are rewarded, while antisocial ones are discouraged. The problem with capitalism is that it best rewards the worst part of us: ruthless, competitive, conniving, opportunistic, acquisitive drives, giving little reward and often much punishment — or at least much handicap — to honesty, compassion, fair play, many forms of hard work, love of justice, and a concern for those in need.” — Michael Parenti
“Cowardice asks the question, ‘Is it safe?’ Expediency asks the question, ‘Is it politic?’ Vanity asks the question, ‘Is it popular? But, conscience asks the question, ‘Is it right?’ And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but one must take it because one’s conscience tells one that it is right.” — Martin Luther King, Jr.
(just testing the filter to see if MLK passes the test…)
The strange thing is that in that case he has been pardoned by the President of Pakistan and all there is no case against him at all.
The goverment is actually forcing him to boycott the elections – because PMLN participation in elections is more bitter for goverment and they want that BB should have a field open so that she can easily become PM and Q league take the other part.
clhusain. if i were to chose from Your 3 options i will go for 1 – No elections on 8 Jan
My reason: Protests will gain momentum, Real CJ and other judges will take the charge back, appointment of independent ECO, conduct free and fair elections at a later date like mid Feb. Mush in jail awaitinh hearing under Article 6!
what a goooof the ‘Ex Chiep Minister of Sindh’ is?? everyone is talking of fair elections while he is saying ‘PML (Q) to decide about next Sindh CM’ does he mean that its already been decided that Q league will win in Sindh?
clhussain.
I can’t pick any of your option. I think it will be “Elections will be boycotted by only PTI”. Nawaz is another power thirsty hypocrite, he would never stay out of the parliament.
I think, Election Comission did the right decision by banning NS and SS as they are the defaulters. EC should also ban BB and all other corrupt leader to show they didnot ban SS and NS only for the plitical reason.
Thanks
Agree with Farooq Ahmed.
Now its the time to bring new leadership. BB and Zardari should not be allowed to contest due to their corruption. Aietzaz Ahsan should run PPP in DEMOCRATIC way. Same goes for Nawaz, he should stop his family politics and handover the party leadership to Javed Hashmi. Nawaz, Shahbaz and BB are heading their parties for last 20 years, now people are sick and tired of them.
Ultimately, I guess, no political party would boycott the elections except Imran Khan’s PTI. NS, SS, BB, Fazl, Qazi, etc.. They all are blood sucking parasite and power hungry. They would never let go the chance to be in power to suck more blood from the Pakistani AWAM.
As Ns has been barred from taking part in elections, it is now clear that Mush wants to make way for both PML-Q and PPP. They will have a hung parliament with BB as a not so powerful Prime Minister.
I don’t want to be passimistic but it seems with the passage of time furstration in our heros will grow. At the moment all the political leaders are free, most of the NGO and civil society leaders are also free, but the voices for release of Judges and Lawyers are fading away. Munir Malik has is now seriously ill, Justice Tariq is in hospital , his family requesting his release http://daily.urdupoint.com/todayNewsLive.php?news_id=50890&page=1&page1=8&date1=2007-12-03&cat_id=2
Justice Rana Bhagwan Das is seriously ill as well.
I hope people increase their efforts before it is too late.
IK should get out of this politics business and get student mobilized for demos.
Why Imran Khan is not bringing studetns on the streets? He does not have time and aggression from civil societ and lowyers to boycott the election is fading. Imran Khan should come to street now and do his business.
We deserve to be thrashed….change doesnt occur without sacrifies….pakistani junta is not coming out …they dont care …then u know what they deserve the following rulers..
prime minister of pakistan=Your highness MR SHER AFGEN
president =Pervez Musharraf
chariman of senate =the great WASI ZAFAR
speaker of assembly =chahdary shajaat hussain.
CM OF NWFP=maulana fazal..
CM OF PUNJAB=PERVEZ ELAHI
CM OF SINDH=DR ARBAB
GOV OF SINDH=ALTF HUSSAIN (REMOTELY PERFORMING HIS DUTIES FROM HIS LONDON MAHAL)
Link to previous comment session
aoa
@admin
r u going to be showing capital talk which was done a dew days ago.
PLMN might not go for boycott.SS. Geo
MMA will decide abt boycott on dec 15.
If PMLN not go for the boycott, means they have accept the PCO, they have accept the Musharaf as a president, they have accept the same corrupt system..Nothing will change in Pakistan!!
IK don’t worry, these people will try to sabotage your efforts but they can’t, they are going for opportunity, having some share in hung parliament.
They have started smelling the share (might be in advance
)
There are news about the the begining of talk shows.
In my opinion talk shows are banned when they started targeting swat, because madcow was least bothered about the grilling of his cronies.
So we might not expect shows about swat, but everything else would be fine(hope so).
Peja,
I saw his interview with ABC. I’ll can say is:
Sharam tum ko magar nahee aati
PMLN has been pushed into a corner now with SS’s disqualification. Shahbaz has a very hawkish personality, true to his name. I expect them to take the fight to Musharraf now, there is no way out for them except street agitation for the restoration of CJP and judiciary.
Musharraf has strictly banned all demos, rallies. Latest from Geo. He is afraid of street agitation.
Admin, so what happened? Was the site attacked?
It was down for 12 long hours.
@dmin, so what happened? Was the site attacked?
It was down for 12 long hours.
Kruman
, disqualification of SS and then perhaps on Monday NS will force PML-N to bycott the election and go on streets.
I agree with you , this is the only good news I heard from Pakistan today
It also means the rumor about SS becoming prime minister was false.
It also means the rumor about SS becoming prime minister was false.
————————————————————–
It was not rumor but NS by himself said that in case of his elimination SS would be the next PM.
He said it while visiting one of the Judges.
@asif
NO there was another rumor which was in essence that NS had a deal with mad dictator before coming to Pakistan and according to that deal SS will be the prime minister , pervez elahi CM punjab. Nawaz Sharif will be bypassed and will rest in Raiwend. Basically meaning BB will be sidelined by Mushuarraf.
Dear Pakistanis
Please be patient and keep in mind the following:
All the groups including the political parties ,the civil society the big chunk of which is comprised of various NGOS mostly supported financillay and otherwise to promote thier agenda .Thier agenda is very clear influencing the change that suits to thier interests.Many of the so called intellectuals are being helped and poromoted through thier contacts in the Pakistan establishment.Look at one time in Zia time Mushid Hussain was the most respected intellectual by this so called civil society .He was working in the The DAILY Muslim an english Newspaper published from Islamabad and remained thier till he did Interview of DR AQ KHAN with the collaboration Of ISI.
There are many more ,Never trust them ,yes they are paid by the foriegn agencies ,so they can say what ever they like to become the champions of human rights and free judicary .They play thier respective roles as given by thier masters.Never Ever Trust Them they can be acting as human savors ,look at burney ,the excellent work that he did to help the poor people to be freed from people and now he is the minister in this shamless regime that violated the constitution.These so called NGOS and intellctuals will never work against the wishes of thier foreign masters .
Now the political Patrties ,do not expect any leadership from these parties because of thier weaknesses most of them are because entrenched in the governance system ,For examle the establishment can put workers of religioos parties in the hidedn cells of ISI in the name of fighting terriosim .For the NS and BB they can be tried for coirruption charges, IMRAN Khan has an advantage he was never in the government and also never involved in any obvious financial corruption .
So he is an exception .Also he can be good second line of poltical leaders that could be acceptible to the west in future.
The real heroes are the Following:
.50 + judges refused to take oath
.Young lawers who are the backbone of the lawers movement,PLease do not expect too much from thier leadership
.Young journalsts ,who are doing wonderfull job ,please do not expect too much from the so called famous Anchores (Talat,Hamid mir ,nusrat jawid and mushtaiq minhas,shahid minhas )
.Have faith in the coomon people and keep on doing you believe is best for the indepdence of judiciary ,once we got it ,other thing will follow
Fiind creative ways to keep the lawers movement alive .Ali Ahmed Kurd is facing financial problems
Oh sorry I wasn’t aware of that rumor.
if we do buy the deal theory, then at the time of appealing the NRO can be used to re-enstate SS’s candidancy and hence PML-N won’t be able to back off from NRO also. This will mean BB will say her stand was supported by PML-N now also, the question is what will PML-N get in return?
@ahson,
I agree with you completely. I would like if we can find anyway to send our sentiments all these heros.
The current situation is very fluid. Very confusing, madcows yelling on his boss, PLMN&MMAs mixed signals as per Geo about boycott,…………
By disqualifying SS they are blackmailing them because they have told him very clearly that if they boycott they would be disqualified but if they agree to come in elections their appeal against this disqualification would be accepted.
Basically from top to bottom there is a culture of blackmail going on – ISI has history of everyone and they are using it to the maximum to blackmail whoever dares to challenge them. This is what they tried to do on March 9 also but CJ refused.
Musharraf is the biggest blackmailer of the worst kind and he is destroying the institution of politics for his own good and army is watching helplessly or helpfully and are part and parcel of this.
The endgame is simple. USA has to take your nuclear weapons and Musharraf job is to make that easy – after that he would be gone. He basically came for that and USA would never stop supporting him unless he achieves this objective.
Musharraf after that would go to USA and live their forever. His brother and son are there and enjoying life.
Musharraf does not care least about Pakistan.
First Isreali president congratulated him, then Indian Prime Minister and now President Bush has congratulated him.
Also another story is that Os@@ma has threatened the Europeans especially in Afghanistan. Why because they are not toeing the line of USA and have condemned Musharraf. This character Osama gives a statement very conveniently whenever either Bush is in trouble or Musharraf is in trouble. He is no doubt their agent – thats why surprisingly he has not been caught till today although he is a patient of kidney failure and is on dialysis.
Mark my words. – America is not going to spare Pakistan until they secure and take away nuclear weapons for good and Musharraf is their agent.
By disqualifying SS they are blackmailing them because they have told him very clearly that if they boycott they would be disqualified but if they agree to come in elections their appeal against this disqualification would be accepted.
Basically from top to bottom there is a culture of blackmail going on – ISI has history of everyone and they are using it to the maximum to blackmail whoever dares to challenge them. This is what they tried to do on March 9 also but CJ refused.
Musharraf is the biggest blackmailer of the worst kind and he is destroying the institution of politics for his own good and army is watching helplessly or helpfully and are part and parcel of this.
The endgame is simple. USA has to take your nuclear weapons and Musharraf job is to make that easy – after that he would be gone. He basically came for that and USA would never stop supporting him unless he achieves this objective.
Musharraf after that would go to USA and live their forever. His brother and son are there and enjoying life.
Musharraf does not care least about Pakistan.
First Isreali president congratulated him, then Indian Prime Minister and now President Bush has congratulated him.
Also another story is that Os@@ma has threatened the Europeans especially in Afghanistan. Why because they are not toeing the line of USA and have condemned Musharraf. This character Os@@ma gives a statement very conveniently whenever either Bush is in trouble or Musharraf is in trouble. He is no doubt their agent – thats why surprisingly he has not been caught till today although he is a patient of kidney failure and is on dialysis.
Mark my words. – America is not going to spare Pakistan until they secure and take away nuclear weapons for good and Musharraf is their agent.
Peja,
I don’t know if Mush is acting on his own or on behalf of the army.
Here’s my understanding:
- Army feels more comfortable with Sharif brothers than BB who called upon US to cut aid to Pak army
- Mush hates Sharif’s and prefers BB. US also supports BB.
- Chaudhries are benefitting the most though. Sharif’s are disqualified. BB’s credibility is severely dented in Punjab.
At this point I’d say advantage Chaudhries.
What will amount to throwing a monkey wrench in this “deal” though would be if street agitation starts. Then Kiyani has to bundle Mush out of presidency and bring CJP and judges back. That is why Mush has taken a hardline stance against street agitation, demos and protests.
If CJP is not restored he has to wait 23 months before entering politics. It is not a long time in politics.
It is a win-win situation for CJP. If he is restored he is the winner. If not he enters the arena of Pak politics as the strongest political force in 23 months.
People has to suffer longer though. I hope that he is restored soon though.
very good comments by IK…reported On DAWN website….
Only sane voice left…
Tipu
notice how mush has made two things clear
1.he has the option of leaving if things get out of control-which means that at this point he is satisfied with the money he has stored in accounts everywhere and flying to turkey for retirement would be an option
2.still instead of simply taking that option of retirement he is going to stay and make a last try to suppress people and see where it goes
at this point this is all just a game to him.if he starts losing he can leave safely so why not try to stay and make life miserable for others while you can.In the process of doing so pakistan can destabilise and go to hell he doesnt give a shit
notice how mush has made two things clear
1.he has the option of leaving if things get out of control-which means that at this point he is satisfied with the money he has stored in accounts everywhere and flying to turkey for retirement would be an option
2.still instead of simply taking that option of retirement he is going to stay and make a last try to suppress people and see where it goes
at this point this is all just a game to him.if he starts losing he can leave safely so why not try to stay and make life miserable for others while you can.In the process of doing so pakistan can destabilise and go to hell he doesnt give a ****
Tipu
can u give the link of IK comment on dawn
I wonder what are the chances of a new Martial Law under a tur o taza COAS . What are the chances of Gen Kiyani being to Musharraf what Yahya was to Ayub, in case there is a popular uprising before or after the elections.
I know the leadership of the two biggest political parties PPP and PMLN must have this in mind and therefore should take a united stand to avoid this possible nightmare and go together in decieding either to participate in the election or to boycott it.
@ bing
Benazir betrays Pakistan by running in poll: Imran Khan LAHORE, Dec 1 (Reuters) Former prime minister Benazir Bhutto is betraying Pakistan by not joining an election boycott that Pakistan Tehrik-i-Insaf chief Imran Khan said Saturday was key to ousting President Musharraf. “It is a complete case of betrayal,â€? Khan told Reuters in an interview after addressing lawyers in Lahore. “Every day she says there is pre-poll rigging, every day she says there can’t be free and fair elections. She says she doesn’t trust the caretakers, she says the emergency is illegal…And yet she is participating and legitimising the whole process.â€? “We want the whole (election) process to be discredited,â€? Khan added. “To participate…is just playing on his pitch to save him. We are just giving him a lifeline…If all the opposition got together today, the elections would be discredited, then he’s gone, because he’s no longer head of the army…So then we have free and fair elections and hope for the future.â€? Khan says Bush’s backing for Musharraf is compounding Pakistan’s problems. “If they do not ask for the reinstatement of the judges, they are playing Musharraf’s game. Basically the impression is George Bush’s administration does not want an independent judiciary, because then they won’t be able to control the government like a puppet supposedly to fight their war on terror.â€? “This movement eventually will turn against the U.S. too, like the Iranian revolution.â€? (Posted @ 15:45 PST)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2007/12/071201_shahbaz_rejected_sq.shtml
BBC reports the detail of Shabaz Sharif’s papers rejection
@ahson
i second to you
however i want to add something here.
every body seems to be criticising political parties,but i think we the awaam shld be held responsible for our biased judgments again and agains….DONT POPLE IN SINDH KNOW HOW FILTHY THIS BB IS …HOW MUCH CORRUPT AND SELF CENTERED WOMAN SHE IS….DONT PEOPLE IN KARACHI KNOW ABOUT BRUTALITIES OF ALTAF H…..AND DONT NS SUPPORTERS KNOW THAT HE IS A MEAN AND SELFISH BUISNESSMAN NOTHING ELSE…..but all the junta is blind folded in there biasness and wouldnt vote for anybody else but there beloved politicians….we give all these politicians the chance to continuet there malicious ambisions…
as long as we dont go for the alternatives i.e may be imran khan,and new leadership emerging from judiciary…..
as long as we keep on supporting the tried and tested old black sheeps ….we awaaam will suffer….we have to setaside our biased sympathies and inclinations….
but its not possilbel without the literally movement…education emergency (As ik put it) is needed in our country…+relegious teachings and relegious pious life needs to be propogated (tableeghi jamaat is the one doing real good work in this regard)
we need to fix the awaaam mentality first and stop putting the false hopes on tried and tested corrupt old black sheeps (bb,ns,althaf hussain ,chaudharies,qazi,fazlu etc)
DAWN LINK for IK comments
http://www.dawn.com/2007/12/01/welcome.htm
@imran malik
I was just waiting if the political parties could categorically say they will participate in the electins because of their party workers, or because of 1985 experience, or because it is a golden opportunity they won’t ever find. so that we can put our only concentration towards some non-political leaders. I think civil society should not wait any more now. they should push the lawyers, journalists and others to come forward and lead the show as they did during the CJP case. We can still come out in numbers. Just plan in advance and give a call to move in front of supreme court with proper arrangement of staying there. (incllude khimas and eatables for days). and plan to stay there until the issue is resolved in people’s favour. i remember, people from different sectors mostly students did gather during emergency in the vicinity of Parliament House. Leaders like Imran Khan, Aitezaz ahsan, Munir Malik, Justice Wajih could motivate more people to come. The first three have seen the worst days in custody, and they won’t have anything even close to that.
I think we have the full opportunity after December 15, since emergency would be lifted and there should not be any problem of arranging gatherings after all, Mush has to show outside Pakistan, there are no restrictions on political parties for holding gathering and running election campaigns.
HUM DEIKEIN GAYE – LAZIM HAI KAY HUM BHI DEKHAIN GAYE
http://www.muziq.net/play.php?artistid=434&songid=6039
JAB ZULUM AU SITAM KAY KOH GARAN
ROI KI TARA URH JAYEN GAYE
HUM MEHKOOMON KAY PAON TILAY
YE DHARTI DHAR DHAR DHARKAY GI
GREAT FAIZ
just seen Fazlu Diesel on Geo addressing a conference. He spoke bad about honourable judges who did take oath under PCO……as soon as he did that he was booooed ….after which he cut his speech short and left with a sheepish/looser smile on his face….
it was worth watching…..diesel really humiliated…made me really feel good
as per my earlier note:
sorry. meant to stay honourable judges who did NOT take oath…..
just seen Fazlu Diesel on Geo addressing a conference. He spoke bad about honourable judges who did NOT take oath under PCO……as soon as he did that he was booooed ….after which he had to cut his speech short and left with a sheepish/looser smile on his face….
it was worth watching…..diesel really humiliated…made me really feel good
Fazlu diesal and BB will ruin every effort to discredit these elections.
in our whole argument about PCO and Martial Law we must not forget the 2 real culprits, Unconstitutional CJ D@gar and AG. As D@gar called AG Qayum and gave him insider info that the bench will rule against Mush…which led to Mush imposing Martial Law.
So No 6 will apply to D@gar as well?
Are you sure it was Dog@ar or was it Javed Iqbal – some say it was Javed Iqbal thats why he was retired with all pensions and has been appointed as Chairman Pakistan Press Council for three years and this post is equivlaent to a Supreme Court judge.
Can anyone confirm it please
Fazlu also pointed to CJ in APDM London
Interestingly BB boycotted APDM london for Fazlu
Now Fazlu says if BB dont contest only then we will decide so
BN and Fazlu had shown good working relationship in past when he became maulana diesel
Reasons of such shrewed act: Both are trained politicians with political background and political inheritance from their fathers.
unfortunately Army this time does want to support either of them!!
Power politics in ARMY under process..
Associated Press and Washington post has written very favourably about NS – and they have said that US should not have any problem to work with NS.
Is America having a change of heart about NS – that should be a bad omen for BB and Pervez Musharraf
@chussain
i had heard it was D@gar. my source reliable but ant be 100% though
also JI was house arrested for some time after 3 Nov. he took up the press post much later and i remember Real CJ praising JI for his decision. so cant be him
@Tanweer:
I think we have the full opportunity after December 15, since emergency would be lifted and there should not be any problem of arranging gatherings after all, Mush has to show outside Pakistan, there are no restrictions on political parties for holding gathering and running election campaigns.
———————————————–
This regime is evil. They have selected their dates incisively. By the third week of December all student hostels will be empty. Similarly bars will present a deserted looks due to winter vacation. Also, here in the west, holiday season will be in full swing mitigating response to any excesses committed in Pakistan. If that is not enough, immediately after elections Muharram will start. It would need bit of creative thinking from the likes of IK and others to keep the movement active.
By the time Muharram is over we’ll have a civilian govt. in place whose existence will depend on crushing the movement for restoration of judiciary. From that point on, Musharraf can simply sit and enjoy.
We should not underestimate the shrewdity of this regime.
But then all hope is not lost. Dictators are prone to make mistakes, nay, blunders. And our retired commando is no exception.
As a COAS Mush could have ruled another 5-10 years but now its not possible. So he goes in Dec or Jan or in next few months, he has to go anyway. But our main concern is judiciary restoration which largely depends how and how early he goes. He has already made all blunders and mistakes that were needed!
aoa
i don’t think we should be waiting around till 15 december. the time is now, what we need is the political parties ie ik and ns to build a momentum which weakens mush and his cronies and buy the time emergency is lifted they is a juggernaut effect where people march in they thousands if not tens of thousands to free the judges.
go musharraf go
-Shame on the peoples like Nasim Ashraf (destroyed pak cricket team already),Kashmala,Saif Ali presenting us.
-Slam on Ahtezaz Ahsan and ch. iftikhar and media anchors like Talat,kashif,Mushtaq minhas,Dr. Shahid and Hamid mir
IK started addressing gatherings for the restoration of Judiciary(Students in Ichrra & Lahore Bar association).
http://express.com.pk/epaper/index.aspx?Issue=NP_LHE&Page=National_PAGE&Date=20071202&Pageno=3&View=1%20id=
kis tarah k election
http://www.moveforjustice.org/News/tabid/60/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/626/Default.aspx
http://www.moveforjustice.org/News/tabid/60/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/625/Default.aspx
http://www.moveforjustice.org/News/tabid/60/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/627/Default.aspx
Check this out,
The first thing Mush does after getting re affirmed as the “king” of pakistan. He buys himself a new Luxury Jet.
Pathetic!!!!
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/150770.html
forget Ik
vote
MQM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4vEMhBaBwPA&feature=related
@ahson
@imran malik
Totally agree. Also agree with Yousaf Nazar’s article
Politics of irrelevance in the banana republic. From frying pan to fire.
Balkanization, not Talibanization, is the real threat facing Pakistan
(Personally I find the above piece to be a bit optimistic …
@chotta
Like Asif had pointed out, the cost of the plane is $60 million. The cost of building the WOLE Sialkot international Airport? $40 million…
It seems that Ansar Abbasi and Rauf Klasra are still with The News. I read their news today. This is good.
Plan is to hand over sindh to pppp,karachi to mqm
punjab 70% to pml q and 30% to pppp.
nwfp and baluchistan to fazlu and pml q…
the majority of seats in na to pppp and make bb the govt…..it will be the same kind of set up as was in 1988..
NS was the cm of punjab then and pervez elahi will be now…
and plan is to give NS the opposition…
if he bycotts then there wouldnt be any oppsoiton ..may be they will leave independent candidates to make opposition
but there is drawback..the bb and mush wouldnt get together ..and pervez elahi will conspire against bb in punjab….
so it wouldnt be a smooth ride…..
and there is a possiblity that this plan get ruined altogether before its execution..bc of agitation by lawyers.imran and hopefully by NS (not sure about his intention at the moment though ..he is feeling pressure from party workers who want to get to the parliament.)
Here’s another piece in Dawn with Imran’s comments:
‘God-given opportunity to change our destiny’: Imran tells youth
Certainly worth a read…You can also see the video of it on the moveforjustice site
Another good read:
Justice Tariq sees another March 9 simmering
With SS’s papers now rejected, the game has taken another turn because now NS will most likely have no option but to boycott.
@imran malik
Is this the “good news soon” you had hinted at? :p
Anyways, you said:
“NS (not sure about his intention at the moment though ..he is feeling pressure from party workers who want to get to the parliament.)”
I don’t buy that. Sounds like prepping an excuse for the future. Sounds like Qazi ala “Mein kiya karoon, Shoora nay fasila kiya hay.” Of course he will face pressure of his ticket holders cause they are “politicians” and want to grab a chair as soon as possible. But that is a given. And he being the “leader” is not supposed to give in to that kind of thing. I am sure the pressure he is facing from Mush & Co. is a lot more…
Direct link to Imran Khan video mentioned above:
Imran Khan’s Address to Student Convention 29th November
another great video of altaf bhai before 1992 operation at Minar-e-Palistan. The
feudal oligarchy feared the MQM’s Philoshphy of Realism and
Practicalism, and it’s representation of the 98% middle class and downtrodden people of pakistan.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=aqXCUw_98VE&feature=related
Ansar Abbasi:
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=11503
America, America
Just saw this yesterday in Dawn and was amazed. Remember the old “sugar� crisis when billions were transferred from the pockets of the poor to the accounts of the sugar mill owners, o.e cabinet members? Remember how government argued how helpless if was as the prices of sugar had risen in the global market?
Well, guess what? Now that the sugar prices are falling internationally, what do you think your government did? Was it happy for the common man?? No sir, no can do! Adamant that the common man gets no relief, they are making sure the prices DON’T come down. Sure, the excuse used would be we are helping the farmers but that is a cr*ak. They won’t get a cent. It’s only to keep the pockets of sugar mill owners lined up…
Oh and notice how quickly government acts when it wants to?See:
“Govt intervenes to pre-empt fall in sugar prices�
Please also see
“LA Times: For many Pakistanis, a state of economic emergency�
@Amir Hameed
About BB & Fazlu, here is what IK had to say recently:
Benazir would betray Pakistan by running in poll
Imran reacts to Maulana Fazal-ur-Rehman’s statement
A good piece by “Ansar Abbasi” in The News
http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=83953
@nota,
The excerpt below from the link that you have posted above explains the reason why common man is not out on the streets yet:
—-
Lower-income Pakistanis have shied away, out of grim economic reality. “We don’t have time to go and protest,” said Aftab, the driver. “If we do that, who will earn our money for us?”
—-
UNTIL IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN ARE UNDER WESTERN CONTROL
PRINCIPLES
Without
Power
is stupidity
Just Like IK
IMRAN
is
New Asghar Khan
of
Pakistan
Soon he would be
“Single”
As Usual
Ansar Abassi
is
Populist
and
Enemy of his own Friends
Musharaf
is
Ethnocentric
not
Liberal
@Musharaf Is Poodle
Musharraf is no Ethnocentric; he is a disillusioned SOB.
“Bhagwandas admitted to PIMS”:
http://thepost.com.pk/MainNews.aspx?bdtl_id=8370&fb_id=2&catid=14
Only
Kiani
Can Bend a River
If
He Wishes So
@Musharraf’s Poodle
Trying to “kabza” as much space with the least amount of words/effort?
PPP is better than MQM&ANP
MMA is Better than PPP
NS is Better than MMA
IK is Better than Nothing
As useual most of the people
Comment on Commentators
Never on Comments
Amerta Sen says
It IS
“Talkative Indian”
Power Less want Power in Pakistan
THERE IS NOTHING ELSE IN POLITICS
One decides to comment on the commentator when the comments do not make any sense.
http://www.express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100309025&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20071202
See how hypocrites are our politicians. Sharm tum ko magar nahi ati
Shujjat says that people only want bread and employment – I want to ask him – are we animals that we only want food and shelter – we have no rights of a place where we can get justice
NS will offer BB the premiership when they meet on Monday. He has said that he’ll go to any length to convince BB to boycott the elections, as it is time to save the country.
If he does this I’ll salute NS. IK should also cool down the rhetoric and sincerely try to get BB on their side.
BB is thoroughly corrupt, but still better than Mush.
@clhussain
Most of our politicians have always been of dubious characters. We know more about them now is due to the media. I am still waiting for AA and Kurd’s announcement on their participation in elections. These two must not participate at any cost, otherwise, the lawyers movement will be a lost cause because these are the frontline leaders.
Judges Get a Heroes’ Reception – Medea Benjamin
Is Pundit Jee more corrupt than Shauki?
CitiGroup Gets What It Deserves
Banking on Misery: Citigroup, Wall Street, and the fleecing of the South
A Thought proviking Article
“Kal (pre partition) aik Qom ko Mulk ki Talash thi aaj Aik Mulk Qom ki mutalashi Hay”
http://www.shahnawazfarooqui.com/DisplayArticle.aspx?ArticleID=544
a good article bu Raman in Indian Outlook…mostly focused on Musharaf-Kayani relations…informative…
http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20071128&fname=mush&sid=1&pn=1
Tipu
Another good one on Kiyani
“General Kiyani’s appointment has US nod”
Wilson John
http://intellibriefs.blogspot.com/2007/11/general-kiyanis-appointment-has-us-nod.html
It was good to know tha Just(R) Tariq Mehmood is out of jail and is doing well. His views are clear and refreshing.
About the nomination papers filed by Aitzaz Ahsan and Ali Ahmad Kurd, both under detention, he said political impetus was necessary to put the government under pressure.
“Personally I don’t have any political ambitions, but I also believe that bar bodies can’t substitute for political parties. Both have a role in their own sphere. It is the achievement of a common objective where the two should meet. Whoever is fighting for the independence of the judiciary and restoration of the Constitution is on the same side. It does not matter what the channel is, we will all collectively be the beneficiaries of this struggle’s success,� reasoned Justice Mahmood.
Now Imran offers an NRO to BB,or was he merely being sarcastic.
Towards the end of his speech, Khan offered an olive branch to People’s Party leader Benazir Bhutto, saying “I would go around and ask everyone to forgive all those corruption cases which she’s afraid of, if she joins us in boycotting the elections�.
is dr shahid masood still with geo/jang.he is not writing or seen anywhere?
@S Khan
Enjoyed
America, America
a good one, Thanks
@nota
“Balkanization, not Talibanization, is the real threat facing Pakistan”
The root cause of all the political troubles in Pakistan is the unresolved issue of who is to reign supreme in Pakistan, Civilians or the Military establishment. The only thing that can impede the otherwise impending catastrophe in the form of Balkanization is the forceful assertion of the Civilian Supremacy over the state of affairs backed collectively by all the political forces or at least by the two bigger political parties the PPP, PMLN who have roots in all the four provinces, by participating or boycotting the forth coming elections together. Pakistan must not be allowed to become another failed state like Yugoslavia and especially so because it is a Nuclear power and its demise would further destabilise the already embattled the region.
to bycott or not bycott
———————–
Let us see both scenarios.
1. In case of bycott from BB,NS,IK and MMA (excluding Fazlu). There will be two emerging scenarios. In first case all the bycotting parties will start a movement against Mush and restoration of judiciary. Million dollar question is “Can the judiciary be restored to pre 3 november status?” If so that will in itself be a revolution. Which affectively means that our society had made giant leap towards rule of law and democracy.
Passimist in me says that this is not possible. We are yet a corrupt nation and we not yet reached a situation like this.
Optimist in me says that this is quite possible specially in current situation. We have made several “impossibles” , not only “possible” but reality. Who would have thought 50+ good people are in this nation, who would have though a mighty general will be crying in front of the whole world.
—
Second scenario in case of bycott is that, none of the objectives of bycott are achieved. Mush remains as president, elections held as usual. PML-Q, MQM and Fazlu will make into the parliament. They will have 100% seats, and will go for the 18th amendment first day. PCO will be approved, and our heros (judges) will no longer be looked by the world as real judges. In my opinion this is the emerging scenario. However after the elections we shall see the real struggle all our heros will be released and they will be starting a real struggle with the common man. BB and NS will have follow CJ.
@commoner
“I would go around and ask everyone to forgive all those corruption cases which she’s afraid of, if she joins us in boycotting the electionsâ€?” certainly was a strange statement to make. No wonder the clarification/explaination…
2. In case BB and NS do not bycott. The situation will be really complex. Nobody will know who is with Mush and who is with people. There will be a lot mudslinging against all the politicions. Again I see two scenarios in this case.
In first scenario, BB is denied clear majority in Sind and Center (or perhaps only Center). PML-Q given clear majority in Punjab (specially if NS bycotts). In this scenario BB is going to raise hell about the rigging and along with NS,IK there will again be a movement. Although there won’t be any clear objectives of this movement. But appearently Mush will have to leave in this case. No guarantee of restoration of Judges.
—-
In second scenario , BB will take clear majority in Sind, and will have majority in center. She would like to become prime minister however there is a bar against 3rd prime minister. This will require 18th amendment and here comes the PCO. Now let us assume with PML-Q, PPP , Fazlu and MQM there is a clear 2/3rd majority. In that case BB will get NRO along with 3rd time prime minister in bargain for PCO approval. However she is going to try to get rid of 58-2(b).
This looks to me the most probable scenario.
@nota
“clarification/explaination…”
The explanation is certainly unconvincing and not quite from the horse’s mouth.
However I would like to look at the third case. BB and NS both take part in election. And now for some unknown reasons, BB takes majority in Sind , and NS gets majority (thin majority) in Punjab, NS also gets sizeable seats in National Assembly. That will be a very complex scenario. Now let’s assume without NS there is no 2/3rd majority possible. i.e. NS takes 1/3 of the seats as appossed to BB taking 45-55% seats.
So there are no chances of Mush getting any repreive from the assembly. BB & NS will be negotiating a lot of things. BB may like to become 3rd time prime misniter and if somehow BB+NS+MMA makes a 2/3rd things will be really interesting.
Yup
@peja
good analysis and a lot of hard work. however one thing is not clear and we need another scenario
- BB takes part in election and NS/IK/JI boycott?
what happens then
Imtiaz Alam’s analysis:
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/dec2007-daily/01-12-2007/col11.htm
@ It was perhaps a gaffe. It reminds me of one from Bhutto, while addressing a public rally he said about Nusrat Bhutto in his typical moving style “Woh kaum ki beh*n hay , woh aap sab ki beh*n hey, woh meri bhi beh*n hey.Kat do Kat do(pointing to the media to censor it)”. Imran perhaps missed to say “kat do kat do”. LOL
It is a long struggle but I am hundred percent sure that victory would be that of truth.
I believe that if BB and Fazlu refuse to boycott then NS should take part in the elections fully to deny them getting a two third majority so that they are not able to pass 18th amendment.
Fazlu has ambitions of becoming PM – he should be even denied to become CM and everyone should try to help PPP, ANP and PMLN to win in NWFP so that Fazlu is finished once for all.
This is if they do not go for boycott.
Give Musharraf and Q tough time as much as possible on every front.
@malik
Thanks.
So let’s say BB & Fazlu do not bycott the election and NS/IK/JI do.
This will be very complex situation. So we will see a lot of activity on the street in terms of agitation as well as voice for the restoration of judiciary. And at the same time there will be election activity with same force. So in this case there will be two situations , first before the election. In this situation we shall see some big demonstrations and pressure on Mush to release the judges. BB will also by fiery during election campaign. I would expect despite all this elections will go ahead.
In the situation after the election, in first scenario, BB takes the majority, in both Sind and Center this brings us to the same situation seeing BB bargaining for 3rd time Prime Minister and 58-2(b) in return of PCO validation with PML-Q+MQM . Fazlu behaving as opposition. It would be interesting to see though in all the above cases what Fazlu gets. I think he will be marginalized in all the cases. He is now useless for everybody.
In the second scenario , BB looses to PML-Q this will be similar to one of the above case. BB going to go back to street , join NS and IK who will already be waiting for her.
@clhussain
I believe Fazlu is going to marginalized by all the parties in all cases. At the moment he has become a useless person for everybody in Pakistan. In case of rigged election.
1. Fazlu is not going to get anything or few seats in NWFP and Balochistan. Establishment would like to give more seats to ANP and PML-Q. PPP will share a number of seats in NWFP as well. So Fazlu will get maximum 10-15 seats maximum in NWFP assemble and 2-3 in National Assembly.
2. In case of “free and fair” election he is going to get nothing.
So that is why I have stopped worrying about Fazlu anymore. He is sort of “used” c*****.
With the changed situation in Pakistan, establishment does not need to frighten US & west about growing terrorism in Pakistan. In fact now they need to show them that they are successful in controlling extermism in Pakistan. Hence they would like to get “moderate” parties getting majority in NWFP and Balochistan. Fazlu is a lost man like his boss (Mush).
Typical BB and Mush statements on nukes hurt Pakistan’s image.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2007/12/071202_nawaz_extremism.shtml
Are they giving singal to US to invade Pakistan.
Shame on them.
oye kuj na hosi! BB will take part in elections, JI will take part, JUI will take part, MQM will take part, PMLQ will take part and PMLN would only wish that they had taken part. everything is running like clockwork planning. BB will at least be able to get some say in the next govt by having a few more ministers in the cabinet. mian NS and SS would be left hi n dry wid especially SS cursing his kismet to be the bro of NS.
baki sub bakwaas hai! khalas and yalla!
free and fair elections to PPP and PMLN r when they win it! when was the last time, anytime either of these buggers have ever accepted defeat magnanimously?
mainly if we win, it was free and fair. if they win it was massive rigging and ISI supported!
sick of this BS every time!
I am getting sick of all these power hungry dracolas, who just for their personal interests are talking of our secrets openly.
One thing is far sure, the one who digs well for otherz, would fall into it.
Allah is the Almighty & who knows about The Almightys plans.
Pakistan is passing thru one of the worst times, when most of our socalled leaders are acting as “Raja Ghidh of Bano Qudsiyya”
a very good analysis although many can reach on different conclusion as well.
Don’t boycott, unite
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=83847
………Yes, reinstatement of pre-PCO judiciary is crucial. Don’t boycott, unite, win, form a government and then bring back the pre-PCO judiciary.
……….
————————————————-
The writer is quite naive, My only one question is Why BB&NS would go for pre-nov3 judiciary after getting into power with 2/3 majority?
They were never in favor of independent & powerful institutions both judiciary & army. And they will never allow, because then their every movement would be checked & it would be great hurdle in exercizing their powers for their personal gains.
Somehow few writers are suggesting that in order to revert the PCO , a 2/3rd majority is required in the assemblies. The premise is based on the argument that since “Sham Court” (SC) has declared PCO as valid and an amendment has been made in the constitution under the PCO therefore in order to remove that amendment a new amendment will required.
This is obviously absolutely rubbish, it is established norm and fact that a PCO requires an approval from the assembly with a 2/3rd majority and the validation of PCO by the court does not carry any substance as soon as constitution is restored. That is why 8th and 17th amendment were required.
The News & Jang are trying their best pave the ground for elections.
Its their agenda, every other column & editorial is about the benefits of election.
Both BB&NS were PM s 4 times & neither of them completed their term even once. So I don’t have much hopes from them that they would do quite opposite of that now.
If – what a big If
http://www.express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100309144&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20071202
read this and make up your own mind
I can only wish for what Javed Ch. wrote in the last line. rest is all very obvious and known to politicians as well. it only the AWAM whom they betting on!
mumtaz bhto in Jawab deh on Geo
Calculating the Risks in Pakistan
..The conclusion of last year’s game, said one participant, was that there are no palatable ways to forcibly ensure the security of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons –
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/01/AR2007120101618.html?hpid=topnews
Most of the serious writers are continuously giving warnings to both BB&NS that this time the AWAM would behave altogether differently so do mend the ways of your politics of greed.
BB&NS were away from AWAM for about 8 years & they might be still living in the era of 88-99, thats where BB&NS would make a mistake!!!!!!!!!
Imran Khan in Focus with Faeza told that there is petition by lawyers of all bar councils there should be a boycott of elections and they are going to press Aitzaz Ahsan also not to take part in teh elections.
Imran is very clear that elections under PCO are illegal and whoever would take part would be particpating in an illegal activity and that Tehrik Insaf does not want to be part of it at all.
Good news is that from next week all teh Geo programmes are going to return including Capital TAlk, Kamran Khan Kay Saath, Meray Mutabiq and Jawabdeh. Last night I saw Hum Sub Umeed say hain. Also in news today there was an article today by Ansar Abassi. So Geo did not compromise
Best shot of Geo yesterday was the speech of Fazlu when he was booed and it was shown all over teh world when FAzlu was jeered.
There is only one solution to the problems of pakistan .The solution is as under:
.NO Compromise on PRINCIPLES EVEN EVERY POLITICIAN DOES COMPROMISE
. WITH OUT restoration of pre 03 november JUdiciary we will never get any thing except the rule of jungle .the power will be exercised by the people who have more guns i.e ARMY Chief of Staff even if the COS is the husband ,brother or the son of the prime minster and he will always obediently follow the dictation of his foreign masters
.We should not compromise ,let us not betray our hero judges and keep on strugglling till we get our objectives ,free judiacry through these heros or thier followers
@ clhussain
Yes imran khan is firm on his stand. I think he has got the support of the lawyers support. Most of the people were thinking that he has made a mistake, but the news that we see suggest that it might not be a mistake after all.
The news article below shows how pre-rigging has started, as visas of international observers have been blocked.
http://aaj.tv/news/news.php?pg=3&show=detail&nid=87345
@Ahson
“NO COMPROMISE”
Totally agree. In all this “what if …” business we are forgetting that these elections are b*stard child of a b*stard and will continue to be illegitimate no matter who gets married to whom after the fact. This is not a game so let’s stop treating it as one. Whosoever wins these “elections,” we the people are going to loose and pay a big price for it — be it sooner or later.
http://www.moveforjustice.org/News/tabid/60/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/626/Default.aspx
Imran addresses LBA, says we will never accept PCO judges
@Ahson
“NO COMPROMISE”
Totally agree. In all this “what if …” business we are forgetting that these elections are b*stard child of a b*stard and will continue to be illegitimate no matter who gets married to whom after the fact. This is not a game so let’s stop treating it as one. Whosoever wins these “elections,” we the people are going to loose and pay a big price for it — be it sooner or later.
Are you all saying BB is right when she says boycotting would help Mush legitimize his rule? I say nothing can legitimize it. If taking part in an illegal election is the only way we see to rid us of this cancer, then I say let us die of that cancer for we deserve it.
Pakistan ka matlab kia ,
musharaf ko bol ab tho ja
I am just waiting for a pure democratic dawn in Pakistan dont know when i see or either my children will see But after seeing a person such like CIA Choudary Ifthikar Ahemed i m hopefull but when i see such politician like BB, Mulla Milatry ithad and all i be sad
lets see ………..
Thats how IK lifted his game & personality in general!!!!!!!!!!!!!
An article in dawn about a husband and wife, who have revealed something quite unbelievable regarding pak nukes.
http://dawn.com/2007/12/02/top17.htm
its another episode of topi drama to pve the way for elections. disgusting.
@ahson
I hundred percent agree with you – whatever happens we would not accept this elections and if politicians want to participate in it they can but in a way it would be good : at least for once we would be able to remove this lota politicians once for all and people would know who can be bought and who are selfish.
Actually ISI and other agencies are planting these news about America coming into Pakistan to take nukes so that we get afraid and we accept Musharraf.
To occupy Pakistan America needs one million troops and they just cannot do so: plus with a very very hostile enviornment it would be impossible for them to invade.
They can take only if Pervez Musharraf and some of the generals have been bought and they themselves hand them over to them in return for money and life in America.
@admin
could you please upload Jawab Deh with Mumtaz bhutto?
Thanks
@zenith
Speaking of “unst*ble countries” with nukes, how about US and Israel? Did you know US cannot even protect it’s own nukes? Shouldn’t we be making some blueprints?
Links:
America Heads for the Tr*sh Can of History
Israel in charge of security for nuclear power and weapons in the US
ISRAEL’S TEMPORARY FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY
B-52 carried nuclear armed cruise missiles by mistake: US
Aitezaz Ahsan: House arrest extended for another 30 days.
I think we will have a free and fair election, getting rid of judiciary and all major opponents in jail or disqualified.
Actually I don’t care, because elections won’t be free and fair, and I won’t achieve anything from these elections. I need my judiciary back… Justice awaits for the families of missing pakistanis, Media needs the independence it had had a month ago, then I will think whom to vote in any election.
I am sure that folks on this forum have seen this statement from Bush (courtesy of The News):
—
Direct US action in Pakistan possible against Osama: Bush
—
All I can say is that “bravo to our leadership for giving US and the West the right for this much interference in our country”. I am sure that there will be some half-hearted response ossued from our foreign office along the lines that “we are a soverign country and will not allow any inteference from any external entity”. The fact of the matter is that Mush has sold this country to Bush for a mere $10 billion and the irony is that all the money went to the army and nothing tricked down to the masses, but that is a different debate.
They are already in, I have no doubt abt that.
the question is why we are an easy prey – as individual, as group, and as nation and as national institutional regime?
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22859095-25837,00.html
Imran Khan savages ‘conman’ Musharraf
PMLN held a rally in bhai pheru where NAwaz Sharif addressed a large crowd. Threats of a boycott are not enough. Nawaz Sharif must mount pressure on the streets.
http://daily.urdupoint.com/todayNewsLive.php?news_id=50848&featured=1&cat_id=2
In the coming days PMLN, PTI and lawyers will need to demonstrate their street power on the streets more often.
US-nod for Kiyani
It does not make sense. If Gen. Kiyani is pro-US and has Washington’s nod, then has US ignored his role in supporting these militant groups or this policy of letting militants loose is actually part of a larger strategy to create militant pockets to justify military presence. God knows what it is but one think is obvious: Pakistan is in deep s**t trouble and will remain so unless its citizens take charge in their own hands.
its again a double game by US. limited attack for nukes if feels chaos in country or presence of Osama.
If army is sincere then before people going to street protest or giving impression of country in chaos, ask Mush to leave and restore judiciary who will take care of future elections. only peace can bring peace -
@admin
?
Are you recording Jawab Deyh with Mumtaz Bhutto
Can someone tell me what we (people living abroad) can help IK and NS in their struggle and efforts they are making to boycott election?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRCHYbpLdKI&eurl=http://www.moveforjustice.org/Forum/tabid/53/forumid/12/tpage/1/view/topic/postid/17351/Default.aspx#17351
UN student protest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu9wsT24YdU&feature=related
Guys Nawaz Sharif has decided to contest Shame elections (The News). Its a shame and proved that there was a deal between Mush and nawaz.Now only IK the last hope of pak is standing alone with the judges.
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/dec2007-daily/03-12-2007/col2.htm
Mir Jafar sey mulakaat
I am still consfuse ………is PML-N contesting elections? can any body clearify?
NS is trying to convince no party participates in elections, whereas BB says we should not leave place for any other party to win in elections.
And the people of Pakistan are being made to delay their reaction over their forthcoming decision. Do you think we have any other choice than waiting for December 15th or 16th?
I sincerely believve that time is right for peacefull revolution, let us call it a GREEN REVULATION. All walk It is possible if it is done collectively simple.
I don’t think NS would be successful in convincing the parties especially PPP ( and the least significant JUI(F)). So most probably we should not rely on him that much. We have to show that we are not polticians driven society. We have our own thoughts and we wish themm to be fulfilled. If politicians could feel convince about our thoughts, we would welcome them.
Correction-
People from all walk of life must join together and should bring about this green revolution by shutting down the goverment completely. It is only possible if done collectively.
Though naieve but wishful thinking.
http://nawaiwaqt.com.pk/urdu/daily/dec-2007/03/columns1.php
See how these writers are changing their stance from restoration of judiciary to No-boycott.
http://nawaiwaqt.com.pk/urdu/daily/nov-2007/13/columns1.php
just compare
Every principled politician and voter must boycott the elections.
It seems that NS will reverse the decision of not taking part in elections based on “extreme pressure” from party leaders. This is interesting development. IK will most likely be left on its own because he is a principled individual and will most likely not back down from his stance.
@dmin
still waiting for jawab deh with mumtaz bhutto………
Open letter to General Kiyani
Dear Sir,
First of all allow me to congratulate you on becoming a chief of staff of the Armed Forces of Pakistan. Under current political situation you are the most pwerful man and I sincerely believe that you can use your authority to change the current messy political situation in our country. You have been bestowed upon this power by the people of Pakistan and we expect that you will use this power very wisely and carefully, that is in the best interest of Pakistan. Unlike your predecessor, who has broken militay code of conducts and has violated the constitution of Pakistan twice, you will exercise this special power given to you by the people of pakistan with great care and with in the context of military codes of conducts and the constitution of Pakistan. Having said that, I sincerely believe that you can bring psitive change very quickly. As a servant of Pakistani people you can take the following steps to resolve the complex and serious situation i Pakistan.
1. Tell mr Mush to leave imediatly.
2. Restore the Judiciary as of Nov 3.
3. Reistate the sacked judges.
4. Establish impartial care-taker govt. to condut fair,free and tranparent election.
5. Free all detainees
6. and lastly free the media.
By taking these action you will be doing a huge favor to Pakistan and the Pakistan Awam. In y humble opinion this is the only way to quickly and effectively resolve the current situation. Pakistan is in great danger and evn it’s existence is threatened . I am sure that you are aware of these dangers posed to our coutry. Pakistan is under attack boh externally and internally. These evil fores are out there to destroy our nation and I am very much scared. My fear is real and genuine.
I want to bring to your attention the recent report written in one of the western news paper. The report is about the occupation of all provinces of pakistan, Capturing Pakistan Army and Other important personalities and taking control of our nuclear assets. Frightening!!! Is not it??
I understad that some of the polticians are not playing their positive role as well and there are some bad judges, But majority of Pakistanis are good and desire positve change in the country. Our army can play a positve role under your command by acting on the steps I have outlined above.
I know your are a good soldier and your job is to defend the borders and not to participate in politics unlike your Predcessor has done it for the past 9 years. In doing so, he (Mush) not only has weakend and tarnished the image of our great armed forces, but also has braught our nation to the brink of bloody civil war. The image of Pakistan and the name of our armed forces has been tarnished in the global arena. I hope you will be able to bring political stability and peace in Pakistan simply by aopting these steps. I furhter hope that all branches of Pakista armed forces will get stronger under your cmmand and will defend the borders 24/7
Sincerely,
EX-Army Officer
IK @ LUMS just after mratial law
http://www.findinternettv.com/Video,item,4041776304.aspx
http://muneeb.org/lumsblog/2007/11/imran_at_lums_3rd_nov_2007.html
Nation (The official newspaper of Sharif Brothers) reports:
http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/dec-2007/3/index3.php
DO NOT Believe the politicians or coulmnists ,they have thier own problems but one thing is extremly clear they are just actors ,and thier job is to perform different roles at different occasions at the direction of thier masters and naw -a days foreign masters have all the might so they follow these masters in accordance with Public Relations SPIN Doctrines .
We should know that we have no choice but to win the restoration of our hero judges,
be patient and keep on efforts what ever you can to expose these sold out lot ,
Poor IK. Seems that he is all alone now. If NS and clowns think that they have support of the people and can work it out with Dracula mush, they are living in fantasy land. Shame on NS for not listening to millions of people, but to some power hungry associates. NS may suffer the heaviest defeat ever.
IK is there & doing what should be done & hes alone but yet hes so influential that every one says that hes “inexperienced”. And don’t know that even the experienced politicians would be exposed & grilled very soon by pvt TV channels, PTV would be there for their blind supporters self-satisfaction.
@imran malik
—nota on November 30th, 2007 5:31 am
—
—Seems to me NO boycott. By the way, wasn’t —the old deadline for 4 days which has now —passed.
—APDM gives boycott deadline
—* Will boycott polls if judges not restored
—by Dec 15
—* Samiul Haq says no poll boycott unless
— Benazir and Fazl convinced
—imran malik on November 30th, 2007 5:41 am
—@nota
—BECHCHEY KI JAAAAN LO GEY KYA…..
—nawaz has announced bycott.dont worry and
—dont read too much into the statements
—made by iqbal and co…
BECHHEY KI JAAAAN LAY LOUN AB?
@nota
bachcha is in NAPPIES these days…he has loose-loose situation…he knows he can’t get to govt….but trying to choose least destructive way…
popular support vs parliament and political power are what he is pondering….+ his pml-n oppurtunists are giving him hard time….
but one thing they need to realize is what wajihuddin said that thses elections wouldnt
hold for long and there would be reelction anyways in 6 months…
may be he can expect what wajih said..
but yes bachcha is in a limbo right now…
lets see which ways he leans
Whats wrong with this BB? everyday she says the same thing. Again I saw her on a foreign tv saying that if the west doesnot support moderate forces in pakistan, militants will take over and they are still advancing freely. This BB is desperate for power. she will surely give way to some invasion, as US is thinking about it seriously than ever before. BB is a …………, can’t even think of a decent word.
A letter to Benazir Bhutto from Ghazala Minallah
Ms BHUTTO, A FREE JUDICIARY BUT DETAINED JUDGES???
Dear Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto,
I was absolutely shocked and amazed at your latest statement regarding the judiciary. How could you, of all people, say that you believed in an independent judiciary BUT that personalities did not matter? If personalities did not matter then why was Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry removed? Why were some judges locked up whereas others were not? If personalities did not matter then why is Musharraf waging a personal war against the CJ? You do not have to be a genius to figure out the reason. How can you separate the personalities from the institution? What you have on Constitution Avenue right now is a besieged and helpless building. The unfortunate but harsh truth is that right now we are a besieged nation as well.
Ms. Bhutto, I am writing to you because your statement has shocked and disturbed me to the extent that I feel I have no option but to reach out to you in this manner. I would like to remind you, since you seem to have forgotten, that you too were the victim of a corrupt judiciary. If Justice Iftikhar had been the CJ of the Supreme Court at that time then perhaps your father would never have been hanged. Had the entire bench been like the present one then there would have been a unanimous judgment. But the judgment was not unanimous – it was a 4 to 3 split – just one judge too many on the wrong side. One more upright personality on the right side and our history would have been different. So yes, personalities certainly do matter.
Ms. Bhutto, I am writing to you in desperation because I am the daughter of Late Justice Safdar Shah, who was one of the three dissenting judges.
…continued
A letter to Benazir Bhutto from Ghazala Minallah: Ms BHUTTO, A FREE JUDICIARY BUT DETAINED JUDGES???
(Third attempt at getting past the filter –)
A letter to Benazir Bhutto from Gh-azala Mina-llah: Ms BHUTTO, A FREE JUDICIARY BUT DETAINED JUDGES???
Ex-army officer,
I’d like you, general Durrani, general Talat Masood and general Ali Kulli Khan to go and meet general Kiyani and express your views in person.
Do I have your permission to post this letter on my blog?
Thanks,
Qabil,
I’d like you, general Durrani, general Talat Masood and general Ali Kulli Khan to go and meet general Kiyani and express your views in person.
Do I have your permission to post this letter on my blog?
You can reach me at dem.freedom@gmail.com
@admin,
I’d reccommend posting qabil’s letter as a post.
Thanks,
these days mush is singing …..saaya bhi saaath jeb chor jaaaey aisi hey yeh tenhaaaaai………………
@ imran malik
I don’t think mush is too worried, i might be wrong though; a couple of days ago it was reported that kiyani changed some faces in the army, but than he met with Mush, and explained to him everything. Mush has the backing of US; the only way to get rid of him is to have a massive boycott of elections, which is very unlikely. Mush is Khush at the moment.
@zenith
There is also the view that those changed were the ones who had expressed reservations about declaring a state of emergency. Seeing the clip of Kiyani with Mush in the meeting afterwards, Kiyani looked like a bl**dy servant sitting with his master. Honestly I did not recognize him and had to ask and reconfirm. So what is Kiyani — master or a servant? I have no clue. So far everything I have seen shows me he is the latter. Hope I am wrong.
(That *** filter again — excuse the dashes)
@zenith
There is also the view that those changed were the ones who had expressed reservations about declaring a state of emergency. Seeing the cl-ip of Kiyani with Mush in the meeting afterwards, Kiyani looked like a blo-ody ser-vant sit-ting with his master. Honestly I did not recognize him and had to ask and re-confirm. So what is Kiyani — master or a ser-vant? I have no clue. So far everything I have seen shows me he is the latter. Hope I am wrong.
@zenith
There is also the view that those changed were the ones who had expressed reservations about declaring a state of emergency. So take your pick
@ nota
Nadeem Taj was reported to have been changed along with others by kiyani, who was a close associate of mush. The thing that surprised me was that Mush had only recently appointed him and others before his departure. Why a change so soon, but i guess this is just a holks, probably another implementation of the foriegn dictation. At the moment all appear to be crooks.
I think we tend to forget who Kiyani is and expect some decency from him which I don’t believe is going to come. He got to where he is by being the ultimate “yes” man, doing whatever was asked of him no matter how repugnant the act was. And if he does act, it won’t be because of some moral pangs but out of self-interest or following someone’s orders…
An interesting piece on the subject:
Musharraf & Kayani: Pakistan’s Top Tag Team?
where one can see the live cricket??
@shaz
On a tv or out in a ground …
You got it wrong, i was talking about any sopcost link or website, where possible to see for free -:)
Pakistan vs India
Sri Lanka vs England
Guys, I want to understand the situation.
BB is saying that boycott will help mush, so she is participating for the restoration of democracy(blah blah..)
I m just thinking, should all the better politician, like IK and Qazi leave them, they will ruin the country… but, if they participate, they will still ruin it, but may be they will have some chance to put pressure in the parliment.
???
shaz
crick3t.org
click on live cricket and use IE not firefox
So much for trusting BBC:
Chavez defeated over reform voteChavez wins Venezuela vote: sources
Oops!
So much for trusting BBC:
Chavez defeated over reform vote
Real story:
Chavez wins Venezuela vote: sources
http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=i0LvtQAQ6sc&feature=related
If you don’t agree with her views (which I found quite absorbing) she’s pretty as ……
Well I might have been wrong on the Chavez vote. all british and american sources are reporting chavez lost…lets see what the final result will be…
The General Quagmire
For all his rhetoric of enlightened moderation and vows to ensure that democracy would see the light of day again in Pakistan, General Musharraf has proved to be no better than the other despicable military dictators who have abused this unfortunate country.
The façade of a volatile situation (courtesy the vicariously fought “War on Terror�) was created to justify the imposition of ‘emergency-plus’ (aka martial law), a concoction of the miserably inept government that, they hoped, would be a quick-fix to the real thorn in the General’s side– the independent judiciary and media.
Come 3rd November 2007, and within hours the face of the judiciary had changed with new, hand-picked, pro-Musharraf judges taking oath under the Provisional Constitutional Order (PCO, a Machiavellian concept instituted by the last military dictator, Zia ul Haq). Those judges who refused to take oath under the PCO were placed under house arrest. Lawyers, civil rights activists and ordinary civilians who took to the streets, to protest the imposition of martial law, were also whisked off to prison, but not before being brutally beaten. The country’s most popular private television networks were gagged, and the GEO network was eventually ordered to shut down all operations.
All the while General Musharraf maintained that whatever was being done was in the “best interests� of the country.
Does it also serve these “best interests� to beat and torture lawyers in prison? On Saturday 24th November 2007, a renowned lawyer, Munir A. Malik, was shifted to hospital with total renal failure. Rumours persist that he was either poisoned whilst in prison or punched on his kidneys, eventually leading to his condition.
He, and so many other heroes like him, remain remarkably defiant despite all they are going through.
The few who have been released tell chilling accounts of the mental and physical torture to which lawyers are subjected. Their only ‘crime’ being that they stood up for the rule of law and democracy in Pakistan.
What of the fate of the hundreds of lawyers and civil rights activists still languishing in dungeons around the country? Their fight is our fight! When they raise their heads to face the brutality of the police they sacrifice themselves for every Pakistani, and for the rights and liberties of all citizens of this country.
Alas, despite martial law and the hundreds of jawans (soldiers) nestled in their sandbag cocoons in every nook and cranny of the country, two bombs exploded in Rawalpindi last Saturday, and there has been a rocket attack on Turbat airport on Tuesday 27th November 2007.
Military training must be lacking severely, though no real surprises there as, the only thing the Army has done in the 60 traumatic years of Pakistan’s independence is lose wars, reign over and ruin the country and do the American’s bidding.
The state of things in Pakistan clearly point towards a deranged group of individuals at the helm of affairs, with not a care that the future of the country is at stake, nor for the suffering of millions. The Constitution, alongwith all fundamental human rights, have been suspended until such time as the General has had his fill of power.
Clearly, the long arm of Musharraf’s law is long enough for murder and torture, but it is just too short for justice!
NOta, IB is mouthpiece of Mush. I don’t give it much credence.
I had the chance of watching wolf long time ago and somehow she gave me the creeps. Looking at her Wiki page brought that all back…
No I am not arguing what she is saying is to be ignored. I just like to keep in mind what kind of animal I am listening to so I can try to separate honest opinion from propaganda.
Political consultant
Wolf was involved in Bill Clinton’s 1996 re-election bid where she brainstormed with the Clinton-Gore team about ways to reach “soccer moms” and other female voters.
During Al Gore’s unsuccessful bid for the 2000 US presidency, Wolf was hired as a consultant to target female voters, reprising her role in the Clinton campaign. Wolf’s ideas and participation in the Gore campaign generated considerable media coverage and criticism. According to a report by Michael Duffy in Time Magazine, “Wolf [was] paid a salary of $15,000 a month…in exchange for advice on everything from how to win the women’s vote to shirt-and-tie combinations.” This article was the original source of the widely reported claim that Wolf was responsible for Gore’s “three-buttoned, earth-toned look.” The Duffy article did not mention “earth tones.” The Time article and others also claimed that Wolf had developed the idea that Gore is “a beta male who needs to take on the alpha male in the Oval Office”.[6]
In an interview with Melinda Henneberger in the New York Times, Wolf denied ever advising Gore on his wardrobe. Wolf herself claimed she mentioned the term “alpha male” only once in passing and that “it was just a truism, something the pundits had been saying for months, that the vice president is in a supportive role and the President is in an initiatory role…I used those terms as shorthand in talking about the difference in their job descriptions.”
bb and fazlu and all lota politicians including altaf shld be reminded the stories of meerjaffer and meer sadiq …the traitors….
and there end…they need to take a leaf from history books
It looks like PMLN would not boycott the elections as is evident from the editorials from Nawai Waqt which has affiliations with PMLN
@chussain
this cruosity about who is bycotting and not is going to die down in few weeks…
i doubt there are going to be any elections under mush….
@imran malik
“bb and fazlu and all lota politicians”
Maybe we should also add NS to the category…
@nota
lets wait for few days before honoring NS with the lota tag
The Mian BB meeting is being held now and the outcome is yet to be known. NS did say that he will try to convince BB to boycott, but BB said she would tell him not to boycott.
JI has withdrawn papers of their candidates…So at least IK won’t be alone…
@imran malik
That’s why I said “Maybe…”
NEWS
Turkish president is meeting with IK and will meet NS and BB after they finish their own meeting. Earlier american ambassador met with NS. Something fishy is going on in islamabad.
@ZENITH
Our own politicians have turned so khassi that we have developed this habit of pinning hopes on foreign elements….
usa,ksa and now turkey
@zenith,
I have been trying to find out the purpose of Gul’s visit. Initially I though it might be to do with dictator’s relocation to Turkey. It seems that it is partially true however there seems to be some sinister design in his visit as well. So at the moment whole Pakistan opposition is sort of being controlled by foreign countries.
BB is controlled by US.
NS is controller by KSA.
Guess what who Gul is controlling? Pervez Musharraf? NO. (He is controlled by anyone who has the remote control
Gul is here to control Qazi Hussain Ahmed. Strangely true to their way JI is trying to hide this. Gul’s meeting with Qazi is not being reported as prominently as meeting with other opposition leaders. Gul has nothing to do with NS, IK or BB.
@ imran malik
ur right, but Y is he meeting with opp parties? Probably on the request of Mush. Shame on the government. They should change the name from pakistan to Mazakistan.
Mush wants to have consensus on his relocation, so he wants Gul tp meet all opposition parties so that if any party comes into power, it has no problem over the relocation of Mush. Does any body know, he will be meeting PML-Q as well or meeting Mush was sufficient
?
Article by Azeem Sarwar in Daily Jang.
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/dec2007-daily/03-12-2007/col10.htm
‘Main Naheen Manta, Main Naheen Manti’
“The goal of a good society is to structure social relations and institutions so that cooperative and generous impulses are rewarded, while antisocial ones are discouraged. The problem with capitalism is that it best rewards the worst part of us: ruthless, competitive, conniving, opportunistic, acquisitive drives, giving little reward and often much punishment — or at least much handicap — to honesty, compassion, fair play, many forms of hard work, love of justice, and a concern for those in need.” — Michael Parenti
“Cowardice asks the question, ‘Is it safe?’ Expediency asks the question, ‘Is it politic?’ Vanity asks the question, ‘Is it popular? But, conscience asks the question, ‘Is it right?’ And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but one must take it because one’s conscience tells one that it is right.” — Martin Luther King, Jr.
(just testing the filter to see if MLK passes the test…)
Is everyone “awaiting moderation”?
NS papers rejected because of being convicted on the following:
. Helicopter used for PML(N) campaign
. Attack on Supreme Court
@dmin
When do we find the link for News Update on 3rd & 4th December?
@Tanveer Amjad
NS papers rejected not because of the reasons that you gave but ‘hijacking case’. See The News link
what a joke that twice elected PM of Pakistan has his papers for contesting elections rejected because he was involved in a ‘hijacking case’
and we term these as free & fair elections?
http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=33274
The strange thing is that in that case he has been pardoned by the President of Pakistan and all there is no case against him at all.
The goverment is actually forcing him to boycott the elections – because PMLN participation in elections is more bitter for goverment and they want that BB should have a field open so that she can easily become PM and Q league take the other part.
Its nothing but a conspiracy.
I personaly think that decision about NS abd SS is right but every corrupt person should be rejected but I know it is political decision
todays article by Hamid Mir in The News about ‘PPP manifesto for elections and impact on NS/Country’
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=11508
I believe NS and SS were expecting that they could be banned. They had cover candidates in all constituencies.
I think banning them will only make them more popular! Thanks Chaudrys and Mush!!
@hasheesh
TQ
Lets do a poll
DO YOU THINK
1 Elections would not be held on Jan 8
2. Elections would be boycotted by only PMLN and PTI
3. Elections would also be boycotted by PPP PMLN AND PTI
clhusain. if i were to chose from Your 3 options i will go for 1 – No elections on 8 Jan
My reason: Protests will gain momentum, Real CJ and other judges will take the charge back, appointment of independent ECO, conduct free and fair elections at a later date like mid Feb. Mush in jail awaitinh hearing under Article 6!
what a goooof the ‘Ex Chiep Minister of Sindh’ is?? everyone is talking of fair elections while he is saying ‘PML (Q) to decide about next Sindh CM’ does he mean that its already been decided that Q league will win in Sindh?
sorry link to The News where his comments were published
http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=33280
clhussain.
I can’t pick any of your option. I think it will be “Elections will be boycotted by only PTI”. Nawaz is another power thirsty hypocrite, he would never stay out of the parliament.
I think, Election Comission did the right decision by banning NS and SS as they are the defaulters. EC should also ban BB and all other corrupt leader to show they didnot ban SS and NS only for the plitical reason.
Thanks
@farooq ahmed
NS banned not for corruption but for ‘hijacking’ and ‘terrorism’!!! see attached
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7124792.stm
So now the top terrorists Mush is trying to hunt down for US are
1- CJP justice Iftikhar
2- 69 other judges of SC and High Courts
3- NS and SS
4- Aitezaz Ahsan, Kurd, and all other lawyers in Pakistan
Come on guys dont you think it is a joke?
@farooq ahmed
NS banned not for corruption but for ‘hija€king’ and ‘te££o£ism’!!! see attached
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7124792.stm
So now the top hijackers and terrorsts Mush is trying to hunt down for US are
1- CJP justice Iftikhar
2- 69 other judges of SC and High Courts
3- NS and SS
4- Aitezaz Ahsan, Kurd, and all other lawyers in Pakistan
Come on guys dont you think it is a joke?
Agree with Farooq Ahmed.
Now its the time to bring new leadership. BB and Zardari should not be allowed to contest due to their corruption. Aietzaz Ahsan should run PPP in DEMOCRATIC way. Same goes for Nawaz, he should stop his family politics and handover the party leadership to Javed Hashmi. Nawaz, Shahbaz and BB are heading their parties for last 20 years, now people are sick and tired of them.
Ultimately, I guess, no political party would boycott the elections except Imran Khan’s PTI. NS, SS, BB, Fazl, Qazi, etc.. They all are blood sucking parasite and power hungry. They would never let go the chance to be in power to suck more blood from the Pakistani AWAM.
BBC reports the reason for rejecting NS papers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2007/12/071203_sharif_rejected_rza.shtml
As Ns has been barred from taking part in elections, it is now clear that Mush wants to make way for both PML-Q and PPP. They will have a hung parliament with BB as a not so powerful Prime Minister.
I don’t want to be passimistic but it seems with the passage of time furstration in our heros will grow. At the moment all the political leaders are free, most of the NGO and civil society leaders are also free, but the voices for release of Judges and Lawyers are fading away. Munir Malik has is now seriously ill, Justice Tariq is in hospital , his family requesting his release
http://daily.urdupoint.com/todayNewsLive.php?news_id=50890&page=1&page1=8&date1=2007-12-03&cat_id=2
Justice Rana Bhagwan Das is seriously ill as well.
I hope people increase their efforts before it is too late.
IK should get out of this politics business and get student mobilized for demos.
Student protest in Islamabad & Lahore
http://pakistanmartiallaw.blogspot.com/2007/12/student-protest-in-islamabad-on-4th_3298.html
http://www.moveforjustice.org/Media/Pictures/tabid/106/AlbumID/560-25/Default.aspx
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu9wsT24YdU
UN student protest
Why Imran Khan is not bringing studetns on the streets? He does not have time and aggression from civil societ and lowyers to boycott the election is fading. Imran Khan should come to street now and do his business.
Musharraf = Mir Jaffar
I suggest every one use Mir jaffar as a nick for musharraf.
http://www.moveforjustice.org/Portals/0/images/sac.gif
Pakistan kay Dakhli Aur Ilaqai Masail
http://www.tanzeem.org/broadcast/audio/urdu/misc.asp
nabeel
Musharraf is not Mir Jaffar. It would be Fazl-ur-Rehman and BB. (Revise your history bro.)
We deserve to be thrashed….change doesnt occur without sacrifies….pakistani junta is not coming out …they dont care …then u know what they deserve the following rulers..
prime minister of pakistan=Your highness MR SHER AFGEN
president =Pervez Musharraf
chariman of senate =the great WASI ZAFAR
speaker of assembly =chahdary shajaat hussain.
CM OF NWFP=maulana fazal..
CM OF PUNJAB=PERVEZ ELAHI
CM OF SINDH=DR ARBAB
GOV OF SINDH=ALTF HUSSAIN (REMOTELY PERFORMING HIS DUTIES FROM HIS LONDON MAHAL)
SO ON AND SO FORTH…