No problem, next year they will provide Butchers (Qassai) for the Eid and then its will a taxable item……I salute the General In charge who invent such a lovely idea of income generation….I wish they could think in the same way for the people of Pakistan who are feeding this white elephant with their sweat and blood…. may Allah have mercy on them.
oh for God sake, lets leave army alone. Our problem were with Mr Musharraf and he is not in Army any more.
Blaming Army for every thing is just like blaming every thing happening in pakistan to USA.
Lets not forget Army is the centre of gravity for pakistan.
Long Live Pakistan
It is simply the diversification of business activity. It seems that Army is in the race for top ten in Forbes magazine. Good luck.. Pak Foj tujhe salam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Rubeena Amer
I thought, army is already in butcher business. Right now they are practicing on people in fata, swat, baluchistan etc. to see if they are good enough to do the same with bakraas.
I can’t believe still there are too ignorant folks around – they still believe that Rawalpindi-GHQ works for the state of Pakistan and they will protect us. Let me refresh our short memory. What happened in Dec. 1971 in Dhaka? From seed to cultivation they are the one 100% responsible for the fall of East Pakistan. Go to Indian web sites and look into the pictures of smiling even laughing GHQ commanders surrendering to Indian Army. Shame on them! But they are very proud for conquering there own country again and again. I know the inner culture of Army – from newly commissioned officer to Gen. they always run for personal interests and making more money for themselves, no morality or love with Pakistan at all. True, our politicians are not so ideal but generals are the one who never let politicians to grow in democratic environment. They planted them to follow GHQ agenda In modern time only this lawyer’s movement is the one that comes without Amy influence and I hope to Allah this movement will turn us into new and great Pakistan.
Will not be surprised if the build a wall around Heera Mundi and start collecting money from the visitors. Off course, the entry for the army men will be free as usual as they are the defenders of Pakistan, after all. What a joke.
Blaming someone is quite easy. And the media propaganda is the basis of USA’s unpopular war.
If someone has time to see how poorly this biggest cattle-market of the country was being managed by civilian management, he can easily understand why army took control of it.
How can we leave Army alone… they should leave AWAM alone. They are to do their duties as Quaid e Azam said that their place is in barracks and their duty is to defend the country . Just for your info. a plot of one kanal in Lahore defence is sold to civilian for 30 lac and for an armywala it is for 10 lac only…. so I think Army should not try to reconquer pakistan after every 5 years and should do its duties for what they are being paid for.
“If someone has time to see how poorly this biggest cattle-market of the country was being managed by civilian management, he can easily understand why army took control of it.”
What a preposterous argument.
Sewerage system is also poorly managed in Pakistan let army generals jump into gutters to open clogged system. That’s where they belong anyways.
By the way we have already seen their management by loosing half of the country. This “well managed” army always got beaten severely whenever faced by a real enemy. Last time they run like jackals from Kargil and to remove embarrassment they attacked on Pakistani people.
“Touun bilqul theek keh raya aein. Nalay Atiq we theek aye.
God forbid let some foreign force invade Pakistan and then these arrogant people will learn lesson about what happened to Bengali women. Then somebody will dare ask them how many harami children are there in your family?
These people are so shameless that in their blind hatred towards one man they don’t hesitate to malign the whole institution which has glued Pakistan into one coherent state against all odds.
@ Rubeena Amer,
Sister ! I donot want to indulge in any discussion on whether Army should be blame for all the ill in pakistan or are there other one involve also.
I also donot blame Army for giving there own people plots in Defence (Armed Forces) for 1 million, … If other people want plots in Defence they are asked to pay 3 million, no one forces them to live in defence. I donot want to live in defence, for me living in garden town is good enough.
I also agree with Dr Umar when he says that “God forbid let some foreign force invade Pakistan “, I really want Pakistan to progress and to tell you the truth ” without strong defence, no nation can progress, see the expenditure spend by other developed nations on defence.
Yes, Army should not interfere in civilians affairs and shall do there job of defending the frontiers. I totally agree with you here, but then let us also take oath that we will also not welcome Army ( remember PPP distributing Mathai on Nawaz removal ) and will not vote for any party that supports the dictators (PPP and PML-Q)
Long Live Pakistan
@ Umar Dar
I also agree with you and ask civilians to stop paying extra amount for the sake of shifting to Lahore Defence. No one forces any one to shift there. Why do we pay extra to leave model town, wapda town , johar town and want to go to lahore Defence. I donot want to go to defence, so it is not important for me whether defence plot is sold to civilians for 30 lakhs.
I was against Mr Musharraf and his one man show. Now when he is civilian then lets deal with him that way and give vote to the party that opposes him. I personally wanted to vote for Imran Khan but now as he is out of scene so I will vote for Mr Sharrif party.
Pakistan has not been glued together by the army. On the other hand, it has always unglued what remains of Pakistan.
All of Pakistan’s most existential, centrifugal, and disintegrating events have taken place under their watch.
1. Pakistan’s only military success in 60 years, was the taking of Azad Kashmir from India, was done by the tribals who we are killing by helicopter gunships now.
2. The 1965 war was one the worst war planning management in the history of military warfare this century. You launched gibraltar and then like a parrot kept eyes closed. When India attacked , you called it shab khoon. If you needed to attack, you should have in 1962, otherwise relaxed.
3. The incompetence of 1965 is matched in world military history by incompetence in 1971. You kept killing your own people and shunning the political process, hoping the seventh fleet would bail you out. Mulahiza ho zara aik documentary. http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/images/2007/12/20071216164731bangladesh71_49cc.jpg
4. Kargil was a fiasco for Kashmir.
5. Balochistan in the 70s, the MRD massacres in the 80s, the MQM operation in the ninetees, the helicopter gunships and massacres in the 2000s, are all disintegrating operations.
6. Pakistan’s underdevelopment is directly a cause of the predatory army. Easterly has done a study on how the military rapaciousness in pakistan has made it so low in hdi indicators.
7. I have all the respect for a soldier who gives his life for ones nation, but collectively the military in pakistan has made it a failed state.
Justice
If a foreign country invades pakistan then this army would definitely win because it will be fighting with the invaders.And remember “men at their best pak army”.So they have to win and mostly against pakistan.they cannot lose
By the wat if someone has any doubt if the won in 65 then please read the hitoy again.Our the best army has the record of 4/4 or 100% in losing to india.
I thought by now the people of this country by large would have no confusion whatsoever as to what is the real problem of this country, but i am really disappointed from the views of people here. Pakistan is an army state and its people will suffer untill it becomes a civilian state ……… furthermore in my view Musharraf was not the problem he was face of the problem the problem is Army. By Army i definitely mean all the high ups of Army …………………… no confusion.
Those who are suggesting that army should go in to butchers’ business. They forgot that Pak army had a track record in this field. Pak army have experience of killing of over million Bengali Muslims in few months and we have seen there brutally in case of LAL MASJID and in swat but all way filed on the borders Zinda bad Pak army keep up good work and conquer Pakistan after ever few years as you are not capable to fight with Hindus
There can be no literate people if there are no schools. Likewise there will never be competent politicians if there is no political process. Our army will try its best to prevent a genuine leadership comin forward because then generals will have to leave the lucrative businesses and do what they are supposed to do.Our army has inherited its culture from British army which was an occupying force so is our army. This army has ruled the country for over 40 years and blames politicians which are created mostly by army.
There is no doubt that majority in Pakistan hates army that is high ups in army.
At times I think if we disband this army, we might be better off…….. personally I dont like army becaz of its continues on and behind the screen role………….. but still being proud Pakistanis, I request you all not to criticize so heavily…… instead keep your words in check as some of the criticism is too harsh……
Umar Bhai, app telecom engineer hoo kyia? cuz only telecom engineers can think like u r thinking specially who are associated with ufool ph sorry ufone.
It is not shifting to defence … it is just the comparision given to show how much facilities Army is given and the discounts given to them. And this they take every where as like toll payment they are exempted,Pia give them discount.. and so on…
Pak army is a corporate army. u can list its major achievements in the business field rather than in battle field. Its achievements are Fauji Foundation, DHA, Askari bank,Askari housing societies and this new venture. I pray for the success of this new venture.
@Umar Dar,
“…no nation can progress, see the expenditure spend by other developed nations on defence….”
What nonsense; we are not a “developed” nation but I bet that the way we so lavishly spend money on the army beats the budgets of some of the developed nations. There is no accountability to what army spends. No where in the world does army runs an enterprise (the bloody Askari incorporated) but in this country. Open your eyes and have the courage to admit the truth.
Even an officer of the Major rank in the army lives in a better residence than a professor level individual in our country’s professional institutes. If anyone has any doubts, just go and take a look at the residences of teachers in UET’s (University of Engineering and Technology) teacher’s colony in Lahore.
@Atiq
“..Blaming someone is quite easy. And the media propaganda is the basis of USA’s unpopular war…”
Media propaganda? Seems like you have been sleeping so far and now it is time for you to wake up because it is the truth and not propaganda.
anyone who blame or try to blame pak army is trying to make our enemy strong this is all western media propagenda and those who criticize pak army,purposely they r all on to other countries agencies payroll they are traitors like mujeeb and altaf hussain and those who just do it without any reason or pupose are idiots “nadan dost” pak army is the only reason of pakistan for being on the world’s map armies allover the world do businesses e.g us ,aus,russia india israel, the by the way i am only an ordinary citizen of iro pakistan pak zindabad pak army zindabad
Excuse me Jany khan, Read history not the distorted version. Blaming Mujeeb or Altaf who are their creators? Yahya was responsible for the fall of Dacca. Zia ul Haq was the mentor of Altaf….I agree Pak Army is the defenders but till they are in Barracks not in the government offices. Yes army does the business but not at the cost of their nation. Are we, the people of Pakistan not entitled for a better living? education, health food? Army being the incharge for the last 8 years in practical have done what good for us? If we have the access to the internet that means we are the few privilaged ones just step out of our well defended homes and you will see the reality. and please its not IRO it is EM (enlighten moderate)pakistan if you do not agree watch TV, surf the channels, for a day and then compare it with the teaching of Islam does it reflect ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN??
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December 17th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
No problem, next year they will provide Butchers (Qassai) for the Eid and then its will a taxable item……I salute the General In charge who invent such a lovely idea of income generation….I wish they could think in the same way for the people of Pakistan who are feeding this white elephant with their sweat and blood…. may Allah have mercy on them.
December 17th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
oh for God sake, lets leave army alone. Our problem were with Mr Musharraf and he is not in Army any more.
Blaming Army for every thing is just like blaming every thing happening in pakistan to USA.
Lets not forget Army is the centre of gravity for pakistan.
Long Live Pakistan
December 17th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
It is simply the diversification of business activity. It seems that Army is in the race for top ten in Forbes magazine. Good luck.. Pak Foj tujhe salam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 17th, 2007 at 8:12 pm
@Rubeena Amer
I thought, army is already in butcher business. Right now they are practicing on people in fata, swat, baluchistan etc. to see if they are good enough to do the same with bakraas.
December 17th, 2007 at 9:31 pm
Ye Ghazi Ye Tere Purisrar Bande
December 17th, 2007 at 9:36 pm
BullehShah
I can’t believe still there are too ignorant folks around – they still believe that Rawalpindi-GHQ works for the state of Pakistan and they will protect us. Let me refresh our short memory. What happened in Dec. 1971 in Dhaka? From seed to cultivation they are the one 100% responsible for the fall of East Pakistan. Go to Indian web sites and look into the pictures of smiling even laughing GHQ commanders surrendering to Indian Army. Shame on them! But they are very proud for conquering there own country again and again. I know the inner culture of Army – from newly commissioned officer to Gen. they always run for personal interests and making more money for themselves, no morality or love with Pakistan at all. True, our politicians are not so ideal but generals are the one who never let politicians to grow in democratic environment. They planted them to follow GHQ agenda In modern time only this lawyer’s movement is the one that comes without Amy influence and I hope to Allah this movement will turn us into new and great Pakistan.
December 17th, 2007 at 11:21 pm
Will not be surprised if the build a wall around Heera Mundi and start collecting money from the visitors. Off course, the entry for the army men will be free as usual as they are the defenders of Pakistan, after all. What a joke.
December 18th, 2007 at 12:03 am
Blaming someone is quite easy. And the media propaganda is the basis of USA’s unpopular war.
If someone has time to see how poorly this biggest cattle-market of the country was being managed by civilian management, he can easily understand why army took control of it.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:36 am
Umar Dar
How can we leave Army alone… they should leave AWAM alone. They are to do their duties as Quaid e Azam said that their place is in barracks and their duty is to defend the country . Just for your info. a plot of one kanal in Lahore defence is sold to civilian for 30 lac and for an armywala it is for 10 lac only…. so I think Army should not try to reconquer pakistan after every 5 years and should do its duties for what they are being paid for.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:43 am
@ Atiq
“If someone has time to see how poorly this biggest cattle-market of the country was being managed by civilian management, he can easily understand why army took control of it.”
What a preposterous argument.
Sewerage system is also poorly managed in Pakistan let army generals jump into gutters to open clogged system. That’s where they belong anyways.
By the way we have already seen their management by loosing half of the country. This “well managed” army always got beaten severely whenever faced by a real enemy. Last time they run like jackals from Kargil and to remove embarrassment they attacked on Pakistani people.
December 18th, 2007 at 9:19 am
Umar Dar:
“Touun bilqul theek keh raya aein. Nalay Atiq we theek aye.
God forbid let some foreign force invade Pakistan and then these arrogant people will learn lesson about what happened to Bengali women. Then somebody will dare ask them how many harami children are there in your family?
These people are so shameless that in their blind hatred towards one man they don’t hesitate to malign the whole institution which has glued Pakistan into one coherent state against all odds.
December 18th, 2007 at 10:11 am
@ Rubeena Amer,
Sister ! I donot want to indulge in any discussion on whether Army should be blame for all the ill in pakistan or are there other one involve also.
I also donot blame Army for giving there own people plots in Defence (Armed Forces) for 1 million, … If other people want plots in Defence they are asked to pay 3 million, no one forces them to live in defence. I donot want to live in defence, for me living in garden town is good enough.
I also agree with Dr Umar when he says that “God forbid let some foreign force invade Pakistan “, I really want Pakistan to progress and to tell you the truth ” without strong defence, no nation can progress, see the expenditure spend by other developed nations on defence.
Yes, Army should not interfere in civilians affairs and shall do there job of defending the frontiers. I totally agree with you here, but then let us also take oath that we will also not welcome Army ( remember PPP distributing Mathai on Nawaz removal ) and will not vote for any party that supports the dictators (PPP and PML-Q)
Long Live Pakistan
December 18th, 2007 at 10:20 am
@ Umar Dar
I also agree with you and ask civilians to stop paying extra amount for the sake of shifting to Lahore Defence. No one forces any one to shift there. Why do we pay extra to leave model town, wapda town , johar town and want to go to lahore Defence. I donot want to go to defence, so it is not important for me whether defence plot is sold to civilians for 30 lakhs.
I was against Mr Musharraf and his one man show. Now when he is civilian then lets deal with him that way and give vote to the party that opposes him. I personally wanted to vote for Imran Khan but now as he is out of scene so I will vote for Mr Sharrif party.
December 18th, 2007 at 10:24 am
Pakistan has not been glued together by the army. On the other hand, it has always unglued what remains of Pakistan.
All of Pakistan’s most existential, centrifugal, and disintegrating events have taken place under their watch.
1. Pakistan’s only military success in 60 years, was the taking of Azad Kashmir from India, was done by the tribals who we are killing by helicopter gunships now.
2. The 1965 war was one the worst war planning management in the history of military warfare this century. You launched gibraltar and then like a parrot kept eyes closed. When India attacked , you called it shab khoon. If you needed to attack, you should have in 1962, otherwise relaxed.
3. The incompetence of 1965 is matched in world military history by incompetence in 1971. You kept killing your own people and shunning the political process, hoping the seventh fleet would bail you out. Mulahiza ho zara aik documentary.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/images/2007/12/20071216164731bangladesh71_49cc.jpg
4. Kargil was a fiasco for Kashmir.
5. Balochistan in the 70s, the MRD massacres in the 80s, the MQM operation in the ninetees, the helicopter gunships and massacres in the 2000s, are all disintegrating operations.
6. Pakistan’s underdevelopment is directly a cause of the predatory army. Easterly has done a study on how the military rapaciousness in pakistan has made it so low in hdi indicators.
7. I have all the respect for a soldier who gives his life for ones nation, but collectively the military in pakistan has made it a failed state.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
Justice
If a foreign country invades pakistan then this army would definitely win because it will be fighting with the invaders.And remember “men at their best pak army”.So they have to win and mostly against pakistan.they cannot lose
By the wat if someone has any doubt if the won in 65 then please read the hitoy again.Our the best army has the record of 4/4 or 100% in losing to india.
December 18th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
Doctor Umar Sahib,
If the offspring out of rape by invading forces bothers you a lot then I suggest you to read a book “Punjab aur Beruni Hamla Awer
December 18th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
I thought by now the people of this country by large would have no confusion whatsoever as to what is the real problem of this country, but i am really disappointed from the views of people here. Pakistan is an army state and its people will suffer untill it becomes a civilian state ……… furthermore in my view Musharraf was not the problem he was face of the problem the problem is Army. By Army i definitely mean all the high ups of Army …………………… no confusion.
December 18th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
Those who are suggesting that army should go in to butchers’ business. They forgot that Pak army had a track record in this field. Pak army have experience of killing of over million Bengali Muslims in few months and we have seen there brutally in case of LAL MASJID and in swat but all way filed on the borders Zinda bad Pak army keep up good work and conquer Pakistan after ever few years as you are not capable to fight with Hindus
December 18th, 2007 at 7:59 pm
There can be no literate people if there are no schools. Likewise there will never be competent politicians if there is no political process. Our army will try its best to prevent a genuine leadership comin forward because then generals will have to leave the lucrative businesses and do what they are supposed to do.Our army has inherited its culture from British army which was an occupying force so is our army. This army has ruled the country for over 40 years and blames politicians which are created mostly by army.
There is no doubt that majority in Pakistan hates army that is high ups in army.
December 19th, 2007 at 12:33 am
One word for Mush: Beghairat
December 19th, 2007 at 3:51 am
At times I think if we disband this army, we might be better off…….. personally I dont like army becaz of its continues on and behind the screen role………….. but still being proud Pakistanis, I request you all not to criticize so heavily…… instead keep your words in check as some of the criticism is too harsh……
happy eid to all, and long Live Pakistan
December 20th, 2007 at 1:05 am
Umar Bhai, app telecom engineer hoo kyia? cuz only telecom engineers can think like u r thinking specially who are associated with ufool ph sorry ufone.
December 20th, 2007 at 7:18 am
It is not shifting to defence … it is just the comparision given to show how much facilities Army is given and the discounts given to them. And this they take every where as like toll payment they are exempted,Pia give them discount.. and so on…
December 23rd, 2007 at 12:48 pm
Pak army is a corporate army. u can list its major achievements in the business field rather than in battle field. Its achievements are Fauji Foundation, DHA, Askari bank,Askari housing societies and this new venture. I pray for the success of this new venture.
December 24th, 2007 at 2:16 am
@Umar Dar,
“…no nation can progress, see the expenditure spend by other developed nations on defence….”
What nonsense; we are not a “developed” nation but I bet that the way we so lavishly spend money on the army beats the budgets of some of the developed nations. There is no accountability to what army spends. No where in the world does army runs an enterprise (the bloody Askari incorporated) but in this country. Open your eyes and have the courage to admit the truth.
December 24th, 2007 at 2:20 am
Even an officer of the Major rank in the army lives in a better residence than a professor level individual in our country’s professional institutes. If anyone has any doubts, just go and take a look at the residences of teachers in UET’s (University of Engineering and Technology) teacher’s colony in Lahore.
December 24th, 2007 at 2:26 am
@Atiq
“..Blaming someone is quite easy. And the media propaganda is the basis of USA’s unpopular war…”
Media propaganda? Seems like you have been sleeping so far and now it is time for you to wake up because it is the truth and not propaganda.
December 26th, 2007 at 10:39 am
anyone who blame or try to blame pak army is trying to make our enemy strong this is all western media propagenda and those who criticize pak army,purposely they r all on to other countries agencies payroll they are traitors like mujeeb and altaf hussain and those who just do it without any reason or pupose are idiots “nadan dost” pak army is the only reason of pakistan for being on the world’s map armies allover the world do businesses e.g us ,aus,russia india israel, the by the way i am only an ordinary citizen of iro pakistan pak zindabad pak army zindabad
December 27th, 2007 at 6:15 am
Excuse me Jany khan, Read history not the distorted version. Blaming Mujeeb or Altaf who are their creators? Yahya was responsible for the fall of Dacca. Zia ul Haq was the mentor of Altaf….I agree Pak Army is the defenders but till they are in Barracks not in the government offices. Yes army does the business but not at the cost of their nation. Are we, the people of Pakistan not entitled for a better living? education, health food? Army being the incharge for the last 8 years in practical have done what good for us? If we have the access to the internet that means we are the few privilaged ones just step out of our well defended homes and you will see the reality. and please its not IRO it is EM (enlighten moderate)pakistan if you do not agree watch TV, surf the channels, for a day and then compare it with the teaching of Islam does it reflect ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN??