Bilalwal Zardari leading means indirectly Zardari will lead.

The he is the next victim of establishment.

I think Bhutto family has suffered a lot. Their children should follow Sanam Bhutto and live their own life. Enough for living for a country where people are divided and ungrateful.

i think good deceision.but very early

I think PPP should try to put the leadership out of their family. There is no doubt their family hasto giv so many ives, but it is the right time to do it now. They can find leaders in them like amin fahim, raza rabbani, shah mehmood qureshi, aitezaz ahsan (i doubt).
Bilawal Zardari, Sanam Bhutto, Asif Zardari, or Ghinwa Bhutto… they have spent all their lives abroad… they never accompanied Mohtarma in any gathering… or did they… I don’t know very precisely except for Asif Zardari. They could still use the name of Bhutto for their party survival even if the chairman is not from Bhutto Family.
Just my opinion, I have no regrets if they opt for any one.

i mean to say bilawal zardari is very very young and the deceision is early for him

The decision might not look good, but PPP leadership would know that Bilawal can get sympathy vote. He might not have experience and he might not know the politics, but I am sure BB have spent great deal of time with him.

I am sure People have the similar concerns about BB herself, but she did proved herself as leader and kept the Party from disintegrating.

Personally I would like to see democracy within party, but current party leadership also has to see how to keep it from splitting into multiple versions of PPP.

a proxy leader.

I think its smart. they get the bhuto blood on top as a symbolic leader and make the deicision from behind the stage.

win win

@econfused

you are right in pinpointing that Benazir must have trained her son. I know this for sure that she was training her son for the future. He was tutored in relation to the world politics. Although she might not have anticipated that her son would have to enter in the political arena so soon but she surely wanted him to enter this arena .

If this is the decision then it’s really a bad one. For one he is very young for this. Secondly the Bhutto family have already sacrificed a lot so the leadership burden should go to the most senior politician rather then remain a family affair. They should have an election among the senior politician of the party.

Plunging him into this filth is not a wise decision. I dont buy that Benazir would have wanted this for her children. She herself has said so before.

it’s disgusting…..no change there. still a dynasty, and then people expect that politicians will change life for them in pakistan…..

sympathy vote? proxy leader?
So you are convinced that rouge army will let them majority win?

@gul

I don’t say it is disgusting, he might be leading the party and he is not going to be a PM. Also if the cenral executive committee agrees then who are we to say anything? Party leadership has to know that PPP strength is in being together, and 10 PPPs

Now I am not a member of any political party. If you are a member of PPP, then you should forward your concern to the leadership and not on this forum.

How can the PPP leadership go for a kid, who doesn know anything about paksitan, its people or its politics, when they have a leader like Aitezaz Ahsan in their ranks. Cnat the PPP top brass tel the Bhuttos that this is not their family business, it is a political party for God’s sake.

PPP is a cult not a political party.

I agree Hasheesh. But can Bilalwal even speak urdu or sindhi?

I agree with hasheesh. It will be a shameful decision. They cannot bring democracy in Pakistan unless they themselves do not have it…

Shameful and absolutely embarrassing! This is not a democratic political party but a family jageer. I was just beginning to become a PPP sympathizer. Why they went with a kid who hasn’t even finished high school when there are men of the caliber of Aitzaz Ahsan in the party is beyong me.

Absolutely sickening, shameful and embarrassing!

Well its ok as long as PPP central working comity use to do the major policy decision, Every party needs an icon. remember we are part of third world democracy/

I think the tragedy of Pakistan (and Muslims) is that we put our hopes in personalities and not institutions and process. Bilawal may be young and inexperienced, but that is not why he shouldn’t be the next party leader. How can a federal political party’s chairmanship be given away in a personal will?

Unfortunately the problem is that even the parties fighting for democracy are not democratic themselves. Ironically, it is the more militant right wing parties which seem to have more process oriented (and dare I say democratic) leadership processes.

i think aitzaz ahsan is best for ppp chair person

Many good people left PPP due to same reason.in the past when BB was leading the party.
Now I wonder how people like Aitezaz Ahsen and Rashid Rabbani will put up with this family empire.

I agree with some you,that the party leadership should be handed outside of the family. They have sacrificed enough.

I think Atizaz Hassan has what it takes to run the party. He is an international personality and supported by public.

It has to be a Sindhi.

PPP’s strength is not dumb-witted bloggers, how many of you even vote. Their support comes form the lower, uneducated classes. That is why the Bhutto name is vital. The vote is cast in the name of Bhutto. I think Fatima Bhutto would’ve been a better choice. At lest her last name is Bhutto.

In South Aisa party leaders are selected by personal preference not by Personality.

I think every party revolves around one man or a particualar family;

PML(N): Sharifs
PPP: Bhuttos
ANP: Wali Khans
PML(Q) : Chaudries
MQM: Altaf
JI : Qazi
PTI: IK

If one keenly observe the body language of the fellow leaders of these parties, they stand infront of their party presidents like an obedient student to a teacher.

while we all may criticize PPP leadership I think their decision is based on reality of pakistani politics.

do you think the jiyalas burning cars right now will stop if aitzaz ahsen tell them to ? no. but they will if BBs son does.

a lot of faults are of our people. time and again we look for military solutions. we beg generals to take over and then beg them to leave us alone. we follow dynastic leaders. PPP has the goal of winning in elections and they will choose the candidate that is best suited for the job.

the people need to be educated.

Bilawal is only 19 and is at his first year at Oxford University. In my opinion he is too young and unexperienced to lead the PPP party or to run Pakistan as a PM.

If Bilawal does lead the PPP party and wins the election then we all know who is gonna be the brains behind his leadership. Hint: Mr 10%

I think Bilawal should finish his studies and get a further experience in Politics. But if he hasnt got confidence, experience or willpower then he should not take up a serious position.

PPP should merge with Tehreek e insaaf and make Imran Khan their leader!

there are a few factors…it is right that it will be impossible for the party to accept anybody elses authority other then bhutto family…like congress and gandhi family in india. pakistan politics dynamics is such that pple r yet not ready to follows ideals. they still follow personalities.
i think party will not accept bilawal for a long time since he is zardari and not bhutto.so i think that true heir to the party throne is zulfiqar ali bhutto jr. it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
i beleive he will be the only one who could become next bhutto leader

they talk about democracy…..it looks PPP is suffering from dictatorship itself how they can bring democracy in pak.

I think the decision is a good one for PPP and a bad one for Pakistan. It would maintain PPP as a feudal, family party, driven mainly - but not exclusively - by a Sindhi power base. The decision is almost like the one taken in kingship where no matter how young and untested the son is, he is made the king.
We need institutionalisation of political parties and for this, the decision is not helpful.
However, what cannot be ruled out is that this new generation, brought up mainly outside of pakistan, may bring fresh and revolutionary changes. If this happens one will have to acknolwedge that the unintended consequences of the decisions were good - but this remains to be see.

Ibnbatuta

Well after all this many would agree that PPP is a national party. the reactions from Baluchistan, punjab , nwfp have been very severe. We expected a tough reaction from sindh, but other parts of pakistan are also paralysed, I called a friend back home he said that it is very tense indeed. NS has taken a good step by visiting sindh, but now the big question is will PPP boycott the elections.

@ gigabyte3d
“PPP should merge with Tehreek e insaaf and make Imran Khan their leader!”

I think most of the PTI members live in the world of their own.

@jojo

PML(N): Sharifs
(May not be) since any one take over after him very easily. Javed Hahmi has a pretty decent chance.

PPP: Bhuttos
(yes) Whole party is based on the sacrifices of bhutto family ad can only be pronounced with some one with the name of bhutto or zardari.

ANP: Wali Khans (May be)
ppears to be the same

PML(Q) : Chaudries (Not at all)
there can be a lot of contenders apart from chaudhris since it is not a party at all, just NAB-zada log.

MQM: Altaf (May be)
I don’t think his presence or absence creates any difference, he as mohras all around to take over.

JI : Qazi (May not be)
I doubt Qazi’s son could ever be the party chief after him.

PTI: IK (Yes)
I don’t know any name in his party other than himself, although a lot of youth claims to be his supporter.

the most appropriate choice should be a leader from Sind who has been pretty active in campaigns with Mohtama. And that is Amin Fahim, who can use th Sind Card as well.

Many people are passing judgments against umor of Bilawal. If you are not a party member, then it is just your wish. Millions of people vote for PPP, so if you are not a PPP member then why complain? and if you are party member, start the resistance at the your level, so your voice can be heard. PPP needs icon from Bhutto family. If you think people will come for Aitezaz, then you only live in your dreams. Aitezaz is a great leader, but he will not get the cult following of Jiayalas. As Jiyalas only want Bhutto.

I somewhat agree @Tanweer Amjad. I believe the next PPP leader in current situation should be Sindhi. Amin Faheem can be the best choice. I also have lot of respect for Fatema. She is one lady who stands out. I have read her articles, very intellectual and probably the right person to lead. I doubt that zardari/bilawal family will accept her though

As far as democracy forget it .. political parties in our countries are cult, they rotate around personalities.

@siqbal00

you’re a 100% right about political parties being cults. Knowing zardari’s history of corruption and ill-will towards pakistan, there should be no intelligent, pakistan loving citizen who’d like to see him lead…unless he pays them ofcourse.

Aitzaz ahsan is a slightly more honorable and reasonable choice. what kind of ‘democratic’ party leeps the leadership in the family?? mafias do that.

In my view Aitzaz Ahsan is the best choice to lead PPP, but guys don’t forget you still need the name “Bhutto” in order to run the PPP.
Asif zardari or his kids are the relatives of bhutto family but they are not the race of Bhutto.
Fatima and Zulfiqar junior is the race of Bhutto. Fatima is the best choice for PPP with Aitzaz Ahsan and Amin Faheem.

Geo is reporting that Sanam Bhutto may be teh choice. Although Aitzaz Ahsan is best choice but in prevailing circumstances - it has to be Sindhi otherwise there would be a severe backlash which PPP cannot afford.

It has to be a Sindhi. Mainly for the sake of Sindhis and integrity of Pakistan. And above all a Bhutto family person. It si a national party but mainly represents Sindh. Sindhis will not accept anything less than the Bhutto blood.

In a democratic system, it is the wishes of the people that are important. Sindhis want Bhuttos to represent them. Then Bhutto blood shoudl represent them.
If people want non Sindhis to lead the party, then there are a lot of other parties in Pakistan which have non Sindhi leaders.

@massibarkate
I totally understand the logic of having leadership from Sindh in current situation, but I can’t understand the logic of PPP representation as Sindhi party. I strongly believe BB or ZA never claim their party as sindhi. PPP is a national party with workers and roots in every province, city and village. Why people are drumming up punjabi sindhi so loud. Why such a divisive attitude

I find lot of contradictions here…
one one hand people are saying PPP is not a Sinshi party and then are also saying a Sindhi needs to lead PPP.
Forget Sindhi, one is tempted to call it Bhutto party.
Choice of Bilawal clearly reflects that the party is seeking loyalty not on the basis of its ideology - center left - but ethnicity and feudal connections.
Those who are appreciating the choice of Bilawal, must at-least acknowlege this much. The only qualification Bilawal has is taht he is BB;s son and, more importantly, ZAB’s grandson. Take that away and you cannot think of even one reason why he should lead the largest national party of Pakistan.

Ibnbatuta

A pathan friend of mine called me and pointed out to this fraud and lies by the government.

Listen to the second video @ 23: 00 on the link below.

Govt Spokesperson says that it is a translation of Pushto into Urdu. He says that there was a mistake of gender. A pathan can make a mistake in Urdu about male/female but how can he make a mistake in his own language??? That is why no audio was available. Liar Government must be arranging actors for voices. Probably he forgot that it was a ‘translation’ because a liar has a weak memory.

http://pkpolitics.com/2007/12/28/government-press-conference/

Jang news reports Sanam Bhutto to be the probable candidate for the leadership of PPP.
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/dec2007-daily/29-12-2007/index.html

That would be the best decision in the given circumstances I believe. She is ZAB’s daughter, BB’s sister, a sindhi and a woman.

Why are blaiming PAKISTANI political parties

George BUSH is son of Senior BUSH ——– USA
Rajio Ghandi, Sonia Ghandi —————- India
Hassena Shaikh —————————- Bungla Desh

There can be manyothers…..

We need to understnd that if people vote for these popular leaders then what is problem. It is not a big problem althugh not a preferred choice.

At this moment PAKISTAN FEDERATION is more important than wishes of some people. If Bilawal takes over her mother and Sindhi people accept it and PPP sticks to PAKISTAN FEDERATION then what is the problem.

What about MUSH and Chaudhries? Why they are indispensable?

She can hold together the party and would control the inflammed passsion of the people of Sindh. Leadership of PPP should not go to a non Bhutto not for another couple of years because that is what establishment has been demanding for all these years. Being a woman Sanam Bhutto will continue to hold he flag of progressive, liberal Pakistan something which the Mullahs abhor PPP for.

This is crap, why the hell pakistan’s political parties leadership stays within the families. The deserving person was Amin Faheem. Bhutto era should be over now.
These parties call for democracy, they dont even have democratic system within themseleves. You cannot bring the democratic system in Pakistan like this, period.

It is not a matter of punjabis and sindhis at all.
The point is that PPP is a national party, but they get majority of their support from Sindh, thus making them the biggest party representing the Sindhis.
And if Sindhis want Bhutto blood to lead their party, then that is what it should be.
Be it Sanam Bhutto, or Bilawal . Everyone knows that Amin Fahim and Zardari will be leading in the background.

@Mera Pakistan

WHy don’t you go ahead and launch another party. It takes decades to build one. If it was that easy, Lawyers would have formed a Justice Party, but they did not. You got to have popular support. I don’t know which Pakistan you live in, but except Urban centers, all of Punjab politics is based on “Brothery”. PPP was the only lucky party which was able to find “brotheris” from all over Pakistan, and Z.A. Bhutto was also being a charismatic leader brought together common people. I don’t know how much you know, but Presidential election under Ayub was not even one person one vote.

I would suggest before saying that “its crap” you have to see the context. One it is still a rumor, and we would know for sure in coming days. The way I see it PPP is a cult, and they need other Bhutto i.e. a descendant of ZAB to keep the party together.

Also that Person has to get a majority blessing, if you think it was dynasty, then how come Murtaza bhutto never got the majority with him?

It only tells you it was BB who got the popular support and she had the charisma of her father, and time will tell if the next person in that family can get popular support.

There are still many founding members of ZAB are still alive, but they never manage to get popular support. You think BB was holding party together by gun?

One thing for sure Pakistan Army and Pakistan cannot coexit any though?

anyone is ok as long as it is not a mullah.

@kinnare
I fully agree with you. Either it is faujistaan or Pakistan

@kinnare
I think u have a point there. Mush knows what happened to ZIa and how benazir replaced him afterwards , so mush has eliminated BB because he doesnot want to end up as Zia. The worst thing is that the laanti army is supporting mush, I think only those will be spared who are not against mush.

@econffused,

Get a life man and talk sense. I have seen your emotional comments, you are all over the place wasting the space on this forum. Use ur brain ,not think by your heart. You seems to be an educated person but I am disappounted on the kind of mentality you have.

People who are confused like you talk this nonsense. People like you believe in personalities than in institutions. Bilawal zardari doesnot know any crap about Pakistani politics, yet he is going to be the chairperson for life like BB.

We got to come out of those notions, Amin Fahim was the next person in queue and I think he is intelligent and has the capability to lead one of the biggest party in the country better than anybody else. Infact, I think he can do the job better than what benazir did. History has proven,

Whnever the deserving person doesnot get the chance to rule, it leads to chaos.

@Mera Pakistan

I do not believe in personalities, as I said earlier I am not the party member or voter. So I cannot appoint Bilawal or Amin Faheem. I will follow any peaceful movement to restore judiciary.

Now back to the topic, I said if Party decides to keep the leadership in Bhuttos family then its their decision. If I seem like educated person to you, then I was giving my opinion by educated guess. Please name how many member (outside MQM Mafia Please) of parliaments have you seen which do not belong to a Zameendar, Jagreerdar of soem other family. You wil find Khosas, Chaudhrys, Mians, Makhdooms and teh list goes on.

I havent been to other provinces, but I have seen enough of Punjab and know how politics work over there.

I have no doubt on capabilities of Amin Fahim or Aitezaz, but these guys are politicians and they will figure it out.

I would have decided to vote for IK, only if the person selected by him is not corrupt (kind of had to find in Pakistan). Which means I will not vote.

I will favor sindi leadership just to calm things down, otherwise who knows how many more innocent people will loose their lives. This just makes me think, how ppp jayala’s are any different then taliban or alqaeda. Calling yourself a moderate is easy but acting like one is difficult. I can understand the tragedy, by why burning inncoent people and gasstation and factories

@kninnare & @massibarkate
your post’s are totally out of context, the discussion is about the leadership of PPP. Your anti-country post clearly shows who you are.
Other people on this forum should beware when chips are down, opportunistic like you will be there create rifts

Historically there are only two ways that napak army leaves the country.
1. Like in 1971 , when they suffered humiliating defeat by indian army. This happened because America was supportive off the napak army at that time and there was no other way that they could quit.
2. Like in 1988 , when 17 of the top brass was blasted in the air. That happened because America was no more interested in napak army anymore after the disintegration of USSR. So they allowed the people to get rid of all the napak generals.

Now in 2007, obviously america is supportive of napak army , so one can imagine what is going to happen.

speak of devil and there is one more there … welcome peja !!!
You can blast mush if you want but it pinches when your comments are against the entir institution

@shaan11235
Few more stars for you today…
*************************************
**********************************************

Some shots of the destrution caused by PPP Jiyalas. Just scroll forward.

Killing innocent people and destrying their vehicles and other properties. Who ever did, this should be shot on sight. Crazy people. If they were so angry they should have started by killing thier own family and destrying theor own property.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12328932@N06/2143047165/in/photostream/

i was expecting … dear

I agree with shan’s post but I think the new leader should be the one who was the deputy and Amin Fahim should get the leadership and we should come out of this family politics.

what else you can say … as usual no logic , no reason ..

@econfused,

We are talking about PPP, why would you bring MQM and IK etc in this discussion. These parties might be doing something wrong, but right now we are focusing on PPP/ If Altaf dies, I’ll still says that the deputy should get the job rather than Altaf’s family.

What I mean to say that these parties should show democratic system within their parties , uske baad he yeh democracy ki baat kartey huey achey lagein gay. By selecting their leader they will create the rift among the party members.

I was reading ZA bhutto’s If iam assasinated , although i disagree with many of his points ,these statements of his are very true.

*”Military coup d’etats are the worst enemies of national unity.”
*If a coup d’etat becomes a permanent part of the political
infrastructure, it means the falling of the last petal of the last withered
rose, it means the end.”
*”The events of the last 20 years have made me arrive at the
unambiguous conclusion that at present, the greatest threat to the
unity and progress of the Third World is from coup-gemony.”
*Coup-gemony is the bridge over which hegemony walks to stalk
our lands.”

@Mera Pakistan

It’s suppose to be straight forward logic to get to democracy you need to believe in democracy. I guess its very “confusing” for some people I don’t care if it’s IK, Q or NS, PPP , mqm or whoever .. party elections are must.
I am not JI supporter and do not agree the way they do politics, but i heard they are the only one who conduct regular elections in party .. is anyone can confirm?

“Most of the mistakes in thinking are inadequacies of perception rather than mistakes of logic”

@Mera Pakistan

I brought into discussion so besides MQM you can hardly find any party which is not based on personalities and that is the nature of beast. Democracy takes a long time to get its roots anywhere. As I pointed earlier, you are not even a member of Party and you are giving them suggestions on how to run the party. What I am saying, its is duty of party members to decide whom to pick as party leader.

You have seen that Aitezaz did not leave the party when everybody on this forum was calling him a hypocrite by boycotting election and staying with Party.

I could careless whom they elect as icon, since I am not a member. Now since you are talking about democracy, have you seen democracy in action in rural centers?

@Mera pakistan&shaan,
It is rare time to see supportes of dictators, Murderous Generals, Mafia Qaumi
Movement and filthy parasites like chaudries to be sad over the killing of innocent,
property destruction.
You are not ppp supporter or voter or sympathiser or well wisher,so why you should even opine or who in the world would care about your like or dislike
on PPP choice. You should be more concerned about lota party,its chief patron
and Mafia Qaumi Movement.

@siqbal00

Yes, I can confirm that JI is the only party in the country that hold elections wiithin the party. I totally agree with you that all the parties should hold elections within their parties, rather than declaring themselves the chairperson of the party for life.

If PPP was holding elections within the party, they would not have this much trouble finding another leader for thier party.

Yes JI is democratic, but no popular support. I have seen people here talking about democracy, but their comments are always Pro-Musharraf. So yes it is very “confusing” hearing democracy from such personalities.

Just curious, what do you guys think should be answer to the question

“Does the End Justify the Means?”

No way mean that Bilawal cannot be leader later on, but at least for now we need Fatima Bhutto. She has the charisma to lead PPP and the country. Benazie was almost the same age when she was pushed into poltics due to the circumstances. She should be the leader….and unite the PPP and the country.

Please …save the Federation of Pakistan. Sign the following petition

http://www.petitiononline.com/FB00001/petition.html

@zufi
where did you read that i upport mqm. i personally don’t like altaf. Since you didn’t like my view point so you decided to blame me
It’s on the record, I have said before that I have voted twice for BB. I developed difference when she compromised with army, thats a different story
Where did you read I am not ppp well wisher or symptahsizer. It’s unfortunate that i do not sympthasize with inncoent killing, i don’t care who does it, even my own brother, party or anyone.
To me a human life is a human life, under no circumsatnces killing can be justified. Now whats next .. since i am not supporting killing spree , i am mush supporter or army supporter or .. grow up people .. use ur brain

@Tanveer Ahmad
Tum buhat bar(d)ay ho bhai

@econfused

not supporting your ideology does not mean that it;s support for mushraff. Please stop saying it. I do not fall for everything what i read or hear. My loyalty is for Pakistan only not for any one individual. I don’t give a damn about mush. I have been vocal against him. If i have not submissive to your ideology, it does not mean I am pro-mush
i hope that’s not too confusing

i am really surprised by the comments of some of the members of this forum…
the proponents of democracy, of ideals, of principles are suddenly supporting Bilawal - decision which is nothing but anti-democratic, parochial and opportunists.
Bhutto wom support of the masses through his ideology - roti, kapra, makan - and personal charisma. The party support came not simply beacuse he was a Sindhi. even if he was a Sindhi but had not given an ideology that touched people, he would not have been successful.
PPP is Pakistan People’s Party. Precisely because of its claim to be a Paksitani and a People’s party taht it got support across the board.
Its desire now to get dependent upon personalities can only be good in the short term.

commoner

“@Tanveer Ahmad
Tum buhat bar(d)ay ho bhai”
What does this mean ?

@siqbal00

Couple of posts and you have assessed my ideology? care to elaborate what that might be, as you can see I am confused.

Scroll up and I did not say that Bilawal should be party leader. I said I am not a member, they can decide whoever the heck they want. I care for Pakistan, and I do not care for PPP, but at this moment I definitely sympathize with them.

someone has written,,,
if Party decides to keep the leadership in Bhuttos family then its their decision

yes, it is their decision…we cannot stop them…but since their decision is likely to have effects on all of us, we have a right to discuss and, if need be, criticise it…
Ibnbatuta

@Mera pakistan&shaan,
you always come on this forum to bash politicians like BB, NS in the disguise of
democracy in political parties , as supporters of pak fauj, but i have hardly seen
you supporting democracy in pakistan, freedom from Generals interference, armys
brutality of their own people(you dont want me to give examples), their divide&rule
politics(mqm,parasites like chaudries, religious fanaticism etc), rule of law.
These slogans of respecting pak fauj, deficiencies in political parties are not going
to stand.
Some people have brain, some heart you guys lack both.

When an army institution as a whole becomes corrupt it is not easy to get rid of it without the ULTIMATE surgical operation. There are two classical examples in front of us. Iraqi Army and Pakistan Army from 1958 till 1971. I’ll first take the example of Pakistan army. In 1969 when there was widespread protests in both east Pakistan and west Pakistan against Ayub Khan. There were people who thought that all the problems are due to only “Ayub Khan” and once he leave the scene things will return to normal. However the truth was that the “Ayub Khan” was only the face of corrupt institution, the whole body was in fact the institution as a whole. And then the body changed the face and we had Yahya Khan. Those who have read history will know how corrupt the institution was as a whole. It is well documented that Yahya Khan asked his commanders to kill two millions of bangalis and rest will lick his feet. They raped 200,000 women and killed many more. Even at the time when they were raping women in east Pakistan from March 1971 to December 1971, there were people in west Pakistan who used to think that the army is trying to save Pakistan.
There were some other people who did not think that army is doing right but they thought in their innocence that only few of the generals (like Tikka Khan) etc. are corrupt hence getting rid of them will mean things will be okay. They were same innocent people who thought that once “Ayub Khan” leaves everything will be okay.
But the truth of the matter is army at that time as a whole was a fascist army who was like a blood thristy hounds and had tasted the blood of their own people. They never hesitated to kill east Pakistani people or rape their women. They were fully intoxicated with the power and would crush anybody and everybody. People still remember operatio search light and nawakli operations.
A corrupt and fascist army would never quit the power until it is defeated humiliatingly.
To be continued…

@ibnbatuta

I said it is party decision, and I think party members have right to criticize. If you are a member, then you should register the protest with the party organization. I have seen people who left party because of exactly the same thing. Now if majority do not like the decision, they have the option of leaving the party and start a new faction. You can see such factions of PPP do exist, but question is do they really exist?

Benazir in two interviews, one in 1994 and the other given last year, had expressed her desire that her children should never go into politics and should rather choose different career paths.

In 1994 she said, “I would like to see my son become a lawyer,” she replied. “And I’d like my daughter to be a social worker.” Last year she said, “Even though I come from a political family with a strong sense of duty to my country I would strongly advise them to stay away from politics, to serve the country in other ways,” she was quoted as saying. “As a doctor, a social worker, anything.”

1994 interview : http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/27/AR2007122702001_pf.html
last year’s interview : http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071228/india_nm/india311433_4

Meanwhile Zardari aka Mr. 10 percent, has been the one who has wanted his children to enter politics which he said so in 2004.
link 1: http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/dec/28bhutto32.htm
link 2 : http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_26-12-2004_pg7_27

@peja
looks like this fauj has given you some special treatment. Mush bashing is ok and acceptable. if you are bengali and some incident has happened to you in 1971 get over it. It does not mean every person who has ever joing army is bad
I will repeat again, when you say fauj, it’s an institution and as patriotic Pakistani, we should learn to respect what we have rather then keep bashing it. If you don’t like something struggle for change not for demolishing it. Your very existance will be in jeopardy. Today you have identity, ask those muslims in gujrat and ayodya who were butchered in biggest democratic state. Go ask how muslims are living in india today

@ pejamistri
I agree with u, but we must also keep in mind that the violence started when awami league militants from india entered east pakistan because they were waiting when west pakistan denied mujeeb from forming a government; ultimately the army was at fault. Yes u are right to a large extent the army is the biggest problem.

@shaan11235
I repect ur opinions but plz tell me that if the entire pakistan army is not corrupt and covetous than how come they have rendered all support to one man who even they know has lost credibility among the masses? Yes mush is bad, but he is drawing support from whom? My friends who have been recently recruited in the army say that we are taught that” we are the top cream of this nation.” This priggish attitude of the entire army has been the cause of the public anger.

I go for Bilawal Zardari will lead PPP as per wishes of Benazir Bhutto.
He will be a great leader like sir Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto.

Here is an undeniable proof that the ISI agent who shot at BB ran away after firing.
http://maxupload.com/img/D7AB8096.jpg

@shaan11235
I won’t wish someone could mete out the same treatment to you and your family which fascist army meted out to bangalis….
Some stars for you
*****************************************************************
************

Army’s hatred for Bhuttos has been institutional. Reason? They firmly believe rightly or wrongly that ZA Bhutto cleverly cajoled them to war with India twice, in 1965 and in 1971. Army thinks that Bhutto had made it out that army was too strong for any political leader/party and it was not possible for civillians to push army out of affairs of governance on their own .Therefore to break their power and demoralise them he made them fight with India which was far more powerful than Pakistan Army and hence successfully broke their power. This is the ultimate and the cardinal sin committed by any civilan therefore there has been an institutionized hatred against Bhuttos . The thirst for Bhutto blood has still not quenched even after the murder of two prime ministers.

@zenith

“must also keep in mind that the violence started when awami league militants from india entered east pakistan”

Please read the following article by Hamid Mir

http://jang.com.pk/jang/dec2007-daily/17-12-2007/col2.htm

I have not read the book, mentioned in the article, but I am planning to read it. I used to have a similar view that it was awami league militants. It just tells me people like you and me were told different history, and now we are going back and trying to look from different perspective.

@zenith
“Awami league militants” from india. this is what the whole propaganda is all about. India did not even came to rescue bangalis till december and that too when Pakistan army actually started ambushin indian army from west Pakistan borders and kashmir borders. Do read this unclassified documents from “US National Security Archive Electronic Briefing ” ,
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB79/

I think, we are wasting our time on semantics…
When Peja says that the whole institution is a problem, he can obviously not mean each and evry person…
and I am sure those who are saying that it is ok to bash Mush but not army, do not think that only Mush is the problem…
we have to keep in mind the nature of institution of army…
it is top down, command oriented…
it simply does not make sense to say that only the top man is problem…the top man relies on people under him to operationalise his corruption, exploitation and ruthlessness…
I have no doubt that the most jawans sincerely believe that whatever is being asked of them is in the interest of the country …that si what they are trained to think…
so one can take them out of the discussion…
but unless someone can give examples from Pakistan army that at-least the mid-ranking leaders have ever raised their voice against the top man’s acts, against the mis-use of ramy personnel, agaisnt the financial exploitation by the army, I think it is reasonable to criticise the whole army…
It does not mean each and every person but it maens taht enough numbers are involved that the tenor of army is shaped by them…
you may know that the an inquiry in 1990s had labelled British police as ‘institutionally racist’. Clearly, the report did not mean that each and evey policeperson was a racisit but that enough top officials were to shape the whole institution…
this example also shows that no institutions should be beyond criticism. Yes, it is true that Muslims in India may not be in the best situation…but how does one explain that Pakistanis are also not safe…what about the people of Swat, Waziristan and Balochistan?…are they in any better shape than Muslims in many parts of India?

Ibnbatuta

@ibnbatuta
I agree with your remarks.

@ pejamistri

It does not show that the person ran away, the person moved back. The person who shot is standing right there, second person to the left of where you have circled. That person has brown sleeves with a black waistcoat or something. He can be clearly seen shooting with the gun, http://enizdomain.blogspot.com/2007/12/pictures-of-benazirs-shooter.html

You can watch the video of this on Dawn News http://www.dawnnews.tv/home/index.aspx and also on Geo News mms://stream.wmlivesvc.vitalstreamcdn.com/live_stream_geo_tv_geolive.

@ enfocused
I said that ultimately the pak army was responsible for the dissent in east pakistan, This article proves my point that when bengalis were armed by india or many would say that many were indian army personnel who were carrying out an armed agitation, destroying buildings and property etc. west pakistan was under the impression that bengalis with the indians are revolting, quite similar to what is happening in nwfp now, yes this was the result of a long oppression exercised by our valiant army. The same is happening today, why is this mentality prevalent that punjabis dont get along with sindis and vice-versa ? this mentality has been promoted .The reason is the lust for power which the army cannot live without. anyways thanks for the article.

@ enconfused
SORRY FOR SPELLING YOUR NAME WRONG.

Alllah ka laakh laakh shukar hay kay canada main aisa kuch nahin. aik gya too uss ka beta a agya , doosra gya too uss kee baitee a gyee. main to canada main hoon , Allaah ka laakh laakh shukar hay. ya Allah zardari aur bilawal ko president or prime minister bnaa ta kay loogoon ke tasallee ho jaye.

@ Pejamistri
Our army was playing dirty with india at the time of india’s confrontation with china, and in 1971 india and russia were both hellbent on teaching pak a lesson and they did because they knew how incompetent we were. We cannot take the blame away from india as well, but i guess u r right that when ones own house is not in order , what can u expect from your enemies.

@zenith

This will prevail as long as people in each province perceive that they are not getting their right. Be it water, atta, electricity, gas or any other resource. We either get tyranny (Army) or Mob rule (NS with 2/3rd in 1999). If the elite (read establishment) do not impose their will and let there be free election, then we can see results. Now some people want immediate results from an elected government which never is possible. Free and Fair elections can get results in long run.

Provinces should be given more autonomy, and center should only control defense, immigration and foreign policy, just as an example.

“Bhook”, starvation is the problem. All the fuss behind this chaos is Bhook. To get rid of poverty in just five years is not possible. We have to work hard and concentrate with in our own area which may take 15-20 years to get the results.

i guess they should have selected Ameen faheem because bilawal is too little to understand that consequences and the establishment game.
it would be so unacceptable, if they still don’t boycott fraud mafia election.

@durrani,
You are right. I missed it. The picture credit is by TeethMaestro,

@zenith,
So there is no blame to india at all they did what a national army is supposed to do. In fact from bangali’s point of view they helped them gaining liberation from a tyrant army.

@ enconfused
Considering the fuedalistic influence in pakistan in every province, do u think that provincial autonomy will not further atomize our society? No ruler wants provincial autonomy, even ZA bhutto imposed his will in baluchistan when he became the prime minister and ordered Tikka khan to quell the violence. Everyone promises autonomy, but promises are never kept, i think there is something in islamabad that pollutes there minds.