Yeah Right

This adds to Mad Dictator’s past statements targeted some for domestic and others for international audiences; white lies yesterday, full of deceits today.

“I would like to move away from the sham democracy we have had in Pakistan.� “I want a true democracy at the grass-roots level�

“India has already tried to step in by offering its bases to the United States.� That is why I (Musharraf) gave U.S. access to Pakistani air bases.

“This has become a moneymaking concern. A lot of people say if you want to go abroad and get a visa for Canada or citizenship and be a millionaire, get yourself raped.”

The reasons for the second coup were; “the war against extremists in northwestern Pakistan� and to “preserve the democratic transition that I initiated eight years back.�

“Extremists have become more extreme!�

And The Truth

I don’t think so. Have you ever heard Musharraf telling the truth. He is a liar, a crook, a dictator and a desperate and reckless person. Looking at History, a person who is crook, dictator and can do anything and everything to stay in Power is always a Coward person.

Khushi se mar na jatay agar aitabar hota……

Too little too late, not gona work now. You got to resign !!!

@Masood Ahmad

absolutely spot on,these are his gimmics just to get some trust back and shows that he is such a patriot but thanks to the media and bright memory of people of pakistan that these things dont work now

he has to go now and he is misfit in the picture of pakistan and i sometimes wonder that what would happened to shiekh rasheed who always says that if musharaf leaves he will leave the politics as well.

good jaob mush,u know how to play with us,

farhan:
SR used to say that the US will come if we (govt) not do ourselves. so time has come and I wonder how Mush can resist this? mere statement or another uturn?

ghazab kia jo teray waday peh eitebar kia….

Well may have our differences on certain political issues. But when it comes to Pakistan’s sovereignty we must be a united voice in taking the stance against such aggressions from our enemies. Last thing the US would want to do is to jump in and then they will see how Pakistan is not just another Iraq or Afghanistan. If they think they can repeat 1971 all over again and divide us, they will soon have their answers.

God Bless Pakistan….

@ravi

I appriciate your concerns for Pakistan and i fully understand your emotions.

But my friend, this man has been serving the US purpose for over 8 years. They have already penetrated into pakistan’s tribal areas many times. This is nothing new.

Secondly can’t you read why would musharraf give such statements only when he is loosing his ground ?. This is one of the last attempts by him to save his position.

I agree we need to be united to face the enemies, but remember people like Musharraf are also enemies for Pakistan. What good they have done for us so far ?

1971 seperation, that had a big hand of Army Generals. The similar shit was about to happen in Kargil.

Musharraf wants us to beleive that if he goes, then every thing is finished. Do you beleive countries run like that ?. It’s the institutions which are more important than individuals. At this very moment, this individual is source of anger and instability for the country. He does not beleive him, but at least we have full 8 years of history to judge. Nothing emotional and nothing sentimental, these are pure facts.

hahah Being a cowrad nation, we should proud to have a coward president!!!!
we should not look at our Politicans to bring any chnage,Instead each of us has to step up and think for country. May Allah give us courage where we can sacrifice our individual interest for the sake of country!!!
May Allah Blless Pakistan!!

Dear All,
It will not be fair for Musharrf to resign peacefully after the mess he has created through ISI. He must be impeached and punished along will all other Generals including Aslam Beg and Hameed Gul who were the creaters of this Legacy. The roots of terrorism in Pakistan were sown by Zia Ul Haq through Islamisation and Jamat Islami. Gen Musharraf and ISI took it to the Peak.

@ Masood
i agree noone is larger than Pakistan but Pakistan itself…..i do not support Pervaiz Mushraff as a dictator no sane person with a little sense of his/her rights will but i do share the vision that Pakistan’s future lies in the hands of
moderate muslims who have tolerance not just for other muslims but also for peoples will to lead themselves.
I think finally after 8 turbulent years we finally have a chance to get out of the mess through peaceful transfer of power via elections. The mess we are in is due to US invasion of Afghanistan and our past role in the cold war. Until they pull out we will have to face extremism and fight it with whatever means available to us. Mushraff or no mushraff is not the ans to our problems. Its a fight between the old establishment (Zia, Gen Hameed Gul etc etc) vs. the new establishment. Its a very complicated situation with no simple answers. If you think that Pervaiz Mushraff is the enemy cause he facilitates US war in Afghanistan than you are sadly mistaken He is just another face in the same old game.
These suicide bomb attacks have showed you the kind of horror these soo called mullahs and jihadis are capable off, and Pakistan army is our most important institution and we must support them if we want to see the same map of the world for the coming years. The army is definitely more important than Mushraff just like Iftikhar Ch. is less important than the Judiciary. There is a huge difference between US incursions in Pakistan or even the missile strikes on selected targets and an all out assault. We must stand united if such a situation arises (God Forbid) , and if that happens i wouldn’t care if it was Musarat Shaheen running the country i will support her in combating our enemy.

p.s fact : Mushraff has always had the same stance when it comes to US forces operating in Pakistan.

@RAVI

Great leader is himself an institution. So was the Quaid-e-Azam, Mao and Mahateer…

Don’t compare Chief Justice.. Iftikhar Hussain with liar Musharaf. CJ sacrifice his career/position for the sake of rule, law and principles.. what did Musharaf … sacrifice rule/law/constitution for his own power, lust, wishes and luxuries….

Pakistan is created by civilians and Pakistan Awam. our sons died in this movement. We know how to defend from its enemies… No Army took part in this, Army role was ever to divide pakistan, to target its own public and un-armed civilians, to interfere in every civil institution to make their cantonments most luxurious place in town. to place their generals in most lucrative positions… and to use their force to guard their luxuries and power only….

@ISEE
cj was corrupt man ,he gave three years to mush,he was taking so moto action against trafic jamms,
he was used by raw against pakistan to destabalize pakistan,
all pumflits . ads ,rented cars were foriegn money guys.
judiciary is the most corruot pillar of govt in pakistan.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that is why SShas to start fake police encounter to kill criminals
mush did good to kick him out , and he will never come back,
if u have a doubt watch shaikh rasheed (6 times MNA OF PAKISTAN)
with PJ-MIR

mian:

if RAW can do something to provide justice in Pakistan, then its very welcome!

RAVI:
if its a fight b/t establishment then why Hamid Gul failed to take over and retired as afghan jihad was very fresh at that time. then it also means that it started with Aslam beg and not Mush
________

we need to differentiate b/w the role of army for the country, and what presently these generals are doing in the name of national interest.

the latest clever move by these retired generals is to again blame the US for BB killing. We always need the US or indian or mosad existence in our own failures.

even if this comes true, the negative path, this army is running on can not be justified. in deed the emerging situation requires more concrete measures like Mush stepping down and public statement from COAS not ever involving in politics again.

nothing else can keep the loosing binding.

@ Ahmed Bhai

Role of army and intelligence agencies in politics is unacceptable and must be avoided at all costs. In the case of intelligence agencies we need to do some very serious system overhauling and law making to curtail this invisible government fashion.

And I totally agree that it started from Aslam Baig, Hameed Gul is another shaddy character, he worked hand in glove with the American CIA during the Soviet Occupation and considered them to be close allies following the tradition of other ISI directors, when Pakistan first allied with the United States. However he changed his position on US in 2002-2003 it had a lot to do with him being not promoted as COAS.

I think Zia created the monster ‘Jihadis / Mujaheeden Vol.1’. But his mysterious plane crash and Aslam Baig’s miraculous survival led to “Taliban / Jihadis Vol.2� which General Gul tried to turn towards the occupied Kashmir but that never really happened. When I say it’s a fight between the old and the new establishment then I also mean that the old establishment never really gave up its influence although Pervez Musharraf tried to cleanse the ISI and other agencies but it would take decades perhaps to change the inertia.

The blame game now being directed at US by these retired generals tell you that they are trying to somehow destroy the US-Musharraf partnership cause clearly that’s the only thing that’s keeping Musharraf alive, BB’z murder fits well in this puzzle. So I think what we are seeing currently in Pakistan is the face-off between (Zia / Aslam Baig) establishment Vs. the Musharraf’s establishment. But this is treating the problem in a very simple manner, if you consider all the other stake holders some degree of Indian involvement cannot be ruled out completely.

@ ISEE

Men in uniform are the bravest sons of Pakistan; they have martyred with their lives and scarified to protect Pakistan under all circumstances. Talking about the recent times last year alone more than 1,000 men in uniform died. Do you even know the names of 10 out of them? Oh but you do remember musrhaff don’t you.
Let’s not compare and opportunist corrupt judge like Ch. Iftikhar who took oath under “PCO� and was in bed with the Intelligence officials; and compare him with Quaid-e-Azam that would be the biggest insult of all times .

The fact is that our entire judicial system is the most corrupt institution of all. You even have to bribe Rs .50/- to get a document attested / notarized from your so called great judges lets not even talk about an actual trial. So please when you count the corrupt judges as sons of Pakistan then don’t forget the bravest.

Your misconceptions about cantonments are based on what Lahore, Karachi, Rawalpindi maybe Multan why don’t you actually go and visit some real cantonment like ‘Pano Akil’ for example and see for yourself the level of luxury enjoyed by the soldiers .I can bet you cant even survive a day…don’t even think about going to Sia Chen glacier cause your love for Ch. Iftikhar wont save you there and if you want the kind of luxury the generals enjoy how about you actually work 35 years for the country and you can get that too.

My friend there is always a ruling class and you cannot judge the entire institution based on your observation of the ruling class. Btw Musharraf is no longer the chief of army staff so please stop BSing about ARMY.

@Ravi

I think the discussion slipped a little away from its original subject. I never assume any kind of “Mullahs” is the replacement of Musharraf. Neither i hate Army as an institution. What i hate is any DICTATOR ( Musharraf somehow turned out to be the worst of all in our history ) and the TOP Generals in the military who have vested interests.

The problem with every dictator is, no body in the civilized world gives a damn to their status. Every powerful contry uses them just like shopping bags and then throws them away. Remember Pakistan would never had done Nuclear explosions, had somebody like Musharraf been in power at the time. Infect the whole nuclear program would not have started, had it been some body like Musharraf in power back in early seventees.

No matter how strong a dictator poses to be, they never have a strong hold on their feet. Musharraf used to call Benzair and Nawaz sharif the biggest looters of Pakistan. Well, then i heard him saying “We are going to mourn for 3 days nationally on Benazir’s death”. He went to dubaee twice to try and make a deal. Musharraf has tried dozens of times to make a deal with Sharif brothers. He has never been on solid grounds, as he relied on empty stomics like Shujaat and Pervaiz Elahi. What kind of leadership could you expect from such an under pressure person ?. Trust me he can never stand on his words, if you don’t beleive just take out the history and see each passing month since 1999.

You must be thinking, how by any means he goverened pakistan so long. The precise answer is, he had backing of Army generals and USA. But look what kind of damage he has brought to Army’s name. Now army people are advised to come to duty in civilian dress. This is disgusting.

I am not trying to declare any politician a hero, or any other a zero. But what i know is, it’s the political process which saves nations, not front page celeberties like Musharraf. We need to get rid of this hypthatical feeling of “He’s saving Pakistan”. He is just an other man with very ordiany aspirations and feelings. It’s hardly been two months since he left Chief of Army staff position, and you can already see how worthless his words have already become in common masses. Face it, whehter you like it or not, he is just a soldier. And may i remind, soldiers are there to protect the nations, not attack or govern them.

Let the process work, let’s don’t find heros in Army Generals. They are NOT heros.

@ Masood
Yup it did slip a little bit away from the topic…but glad we agree…no dictator has the right to run the affairs of this country… and certainly the generals are not the heroes its only the men who have given their blood for instance troops that have died in FATA , Balochistan, SWAT …the ones who died during the suicide bomb attacks not just Army but police aswell.
And thats exactly what i have been advocating lets distinguish between the ruling class and the people who have actually sacrificed the most.

God Bless Pakistan….

look at ch pervaiz elahi jalsas in janubi punjab,
and list of his work, thanks to his good goverenc

@mian

Yes looking at his work

- loadshedding for 15 hours a day
- lack of ata to poor people
- prices going sky high for almost every item
- crisis of sugar
- millions spent over aeroplanes and vehicles for himself and ministers
- ethnic slogans being raised in newspapers
- slogans to support military general even 10 ten times to become president
- thousands of media people, lawyers and civil society memebers being arrested.
- govt infra-structure being used to run political campain.
- criticizing asif zardari for khandani siasat, but himself bringing in Monas Elahi and Wajat hussain.

The list would never end …… What a good tenure he had !!!

@mian

So should we make Ch. Pervaiz prime minister of Janubi Punjab?

@Ravi
so basically you are saying that army shouldn’t get involved in politics but still give time to mushi. the same old excuse by same old agencies thinking people are still idiot. BTW each of that soldier who fired a bullet on their own people either willingly or unwillingly is a legit target. don’t give me the shit that they were just following orders etc. in hereafter they cannot say to Allah that mushi order gave us an order to kill muslims. every one is accountable to his own actions, including you too.

Ravi:
I agree with bechari-awam. If I take your argument then Mush should have shown such signs before 9/11, should have done in 8 years. now that he is no longer COAS , your stated cleansing will never happen.

My observation is very simple. the ISI faction you are telling need to be cleaned has never been powerful, otherwise there were no failure coupe attempt and at least Gen Hamid Gul would have been revolted rather stepped down. He in deed tried but not supported.

The army by nature is not jihadi but professional and so called jihad is an economic activity for them and those who died in front line have different utility to die. Can’t you see that actual people who turned to be jihadi were just trained by army and not regulated in army? from afghan wars to Kargil?

The clever game of these generals should be stopped now as retirement does not dignify them.

@ bechari-awam

Finally we have a Taliban/ Alqaida sympathizer who supports suicide bombers and thinks terrorism is legit on pk.politics….amazing…soo how about you tell this ‘legit target theory’ BS to the families of 23 policemen who died in Lahore over the weekend. You will have your answer and if you would still be alive we can talk about the other stuff….

Muslims killing Muslims is the worst thing ever…but these terrorists are not Muslims they are bloody animals who don’t understand any other lingo then the bullets and bomb in their so called fake jihad…we are in a war my friend don’t confuse this simple fact with your BS….cause the same accountability awaits you and your terrorist friends since you support killing your fellow muslims…

The real jihad is being fought by the very capable doctors, engineers, journalists etc etc… who are trying to build this country not a-holes who blow themselves up w/o even knowing who is sponsoring and financing them.

Btw your powers of deduction are breathtaking….who the hell supports mushraff…he is a desperate man shamelessly trying to cling to the power…finally he is no more a liability on army and you will see what happens next…

I support free and fair elections in Pakistan and a transparent peaceful transfer of power and your terrorist friends don’t want to see that happen and that does make them a ‘legit target’ both insider and outside the country and anyone in uniform who dies trying to defend that is a hero martyr and who ever questions that may rot in hell.

God Bless Pakistan….

@Ahmed Bahi

You cant judge present events w/o the reference of time. The army did train the Jihadis (with US support) but there was a purpose and that was to fight the Russians and we did indeed win that war…
Kargil war was ill planned but still legit since it was directed towards india with the Kashmir back drop…btw NLI was inducted in to army after the completion of that war and it wasnt just jihadis in Kargil not to forget Capt.Karnal Sher Khan shaheed. etc etc….(where was the economic activity in that ?? perhaps in some sick way it can be argued that it was all plotted to remove Nawaz …but i personally think thats another blame game)
but now the situation is just completely different the Jihadi tool is out of control….even if it has the support from the former establishment or not is not the question…what bechari awam has advocated is a death warrant on everyone that wears uniform which i think is just plain BS….

but i do agree with him on the point that there is no point supporting mushraff… all one must support is free and fair elections and transfer of power….with or without Mushraff…

@ravi

You know he first problem here in your comments.

“The army did train the Jihadis (with US support) but there was a purpose and that was to fight the Russians and we did indeed win that war…”

I certainly do, we ruined our country by proxy wars. The only thing I can recall from that era as heroin, klashinkof culture, corruption, adhocism, MQM mafia. Before we do any thing to Musharraf, we have to educate you, that accept the mistakes as mistakes, so we can move forward.

On note of Kargil, since when Army ever accomplished any mission. Who asked them o even start the dang thing. War costs money, and your country cannot sustain any. The Afghan war you are so proud of winning was funded by US and Saudi Arabia. A country should go to war for its on interest and realities in situation. We would be happy, if our army can just defend the homeland, let alone to go on offensive on some stupid dream.

@ econfused

my friend perhaps you are not following the entire context of the discussion….i am not glorifying the army and its failed policies. These were plain facts that i narrated …secondly i dont see what other alternative we had in the cold war else then to fight a proxy war against russia with an agressive india on the other side of border..Perhaps you can to sujjest something 20 years after the fact and having seen the entire fall out of that war.

Not only every war has its cost but also the fallouts …the cold war era is what created the problem of extremism in the first place…and our great military policy makers who created the monster and then forgot how to control it…….
with these ground realities in mind and ppl like Zia in the grave….its time we move forward and have our elections have a peaceful transfer of power …get out of the mess we are in….but even that looks like a dream….

@ravi
“Finally we have a Taliban/ Alqaida sympathizer who supports suicide bombers and thinks terrorism is legit on pk.politics….amazing…soo how about you tell this ‘legit target theory’ BS to the families of 23 policemen who died in Lahore over the weekend. You will have your answer and if you would still be alive we can talk about the other stuff….”

Bhai ravi can I sue you. I guess it will be an easy case to win considering you accused me of supporting taliban/suicide bombing etc which I don’t see in my comment. Can you point to the words where I have supported suicide bombing. Where I said that killing 23 policemen or as a matter of fact any innocent human is legit. Your all other hate-mongering is irrelevant just because of that and not worth replying. This will be my last reply to you considering I hate people who accuse others with imaginary stuff or trying to put words in their mouth of their liking.

If you start thinking with YOUR mind then it will be clear that I talked about the excuse of many that they were innocent and did horrible crimes including suicide bombings because their employers/imams or whatever name you want to give etc forced them into those things. In hereafter every one is responsible for his own deeds and can not make that excuse.

@ravi

Alternative was not to hang Bhutto, and do the elections as planned. If our history serves us right, our Army was never good at any long term planning. How many time army has to learn it that they cannot run thus freaking country.

Their next excuse wil be that politicians come to us, well even that i snot acceptable,
just say no, and stay on your professional duty.

@ econfused

on the same thought…. true democracy is the ans to every question…if only Ayub Khan had stayed in his pants we probably would have avoided 1971 aswell…so lets pray for the elections and the transfer of power ….

@ bechari-awam

“BTW each of that soldier who fired a bullet on their own people either willingly or unwillingly is a “legit target”. don’t give me the shit that they were just following orders etc. in hereafter they cannot say to Allah that mushi order gave us an order to kill muslims.”
Vs.
it will be clear that I talked about the excuse of many that they were innocent and did horrible crimes including suicide bombings because their employers/imams or whatever name you want to give etc forced them into those things.

Dude you really are confused but thanks for rationalizing your statement ….. meri jan sue kar day koi masla nain bas ghusa na hoo or javab deta raha kar….

God Bless Pakistan…

MUSHARAF AND DEMOCRACY ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS AND CANNOT EXIST TOGETHER. MUSHARAF 8 GREAT YEARS OF PROGRESS HAS GIVEN THE NATION HUNGER, UNEMPLOYMENT, LAWLESSNESS , CORRUPTION , SUICIDE ATTACKS AND NO WATER, NO GAS , NO ATTA , WHAT A SHAME AND STILL HE THINGS HE IS POPULAR .
MLITARY MIGHT CANNOT SOLVE POLITICAL PROBLEMS. IF MIGHT IS THE ONLY SOLUTION THEN USA WOULD HAVE GONE HOME MUCH EARLIER FRON IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN. THE WAY OUR RULERS ARE KILLING INNOCENT CIVILIANS IN THE PREYEX OF TERRORIST TO PLEASE THERE MASTERS THE MORE HORROR WE WILL TASTE IN THE FORM OF BLAST IN LAHORE, KARACHI AND ELSWHERE.
THE ONLY SOLUTION TO REDUCE THESE ATTACKS IS TO STOP ATTACKING WAZIRISTAN AND MUSHARAF SHOULD STEP DOWN, CH SHOULD GO HOME AND NATIONAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD APOLIGISE WITH THE ELDERS OF WAZIRISTAN AND CONDEM THE WRONG DOINGS OF PRESENT GOVERNMENT. THOSE WHO R RESPONSIBLE IN THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE PUNISHED. JUDICIARY MUST BE RESTORED AS OF 3RD .
ALL RESPONSIBLE GENERALS SHOULD BE COURT MARTIALED TO SET AN EXAMPLE. PAKISTAN WILL BE BLESSED IF MUSHARAF IS REMOVED.

1) One cannot imagine, 8 years of rule by musharaf has created so much of hatred in the hearts, of each & every Pakistani, from Khyber to Karachi; & yet it has not moved him a bit to decide to leave respectfully, but only wants to be forced out?

2) It’s only when’ one ‘ feels strong, that nobody can force him out, despite the fact that, ‘ You can do sweet F**K all ‘ & also when ‘ one ‘ feels a much stronger Power, either, God or USA, who MAY likely come to ‘ ones ‘ help?

3) What’s else that’s ‘ driving ‘ such a mad man? Allah, Amreeka & / or, the Army?

I sure would like to believe Mush’s recent comment concerninig the invasion of northern Pakistan by the allied forces, but I will not. He is not honest and he is not telling the truth. His doing this to stay in power. He is indeed a pathologic liar. He is working in the best interest of his western masters. I appeal to my fellow Pakistanis not to trust Mush and we must accelerate our efforts to remove him from Power. The sooner he is removed from power, the better it is for Pakistan and it’s citizens. Pakistan can’t afford this reckless and incompetent ruler any more. To my surprize, there are a few Pakistanis who still support him and his reckless policies. That’s mind bogling. I am realy frustrated, and worried about the future of Pakistan and it’s Awam.
On behalf of majority of Pakistanis, I dmand Mr Mush to resign with immediate effect, if not then we must remove him by force.