A HOT episode with Khawaja Saad Rafiq of Pakistan Muslim League Nawaz (PMLN).
Audio clip: Adobe Flash Player (version 9 or above) is required to play this audio clip. Download the latest version here. You also need to have JavaScript enabled in your browser.
Free video has been archived. Sign up as a Contributor to watch this video.
Khawaja Saad Rafiq is a dil jalla, like all of us Pakistanis and speaks from the heart.
Lets see what he has to say, but as time goes by and we get to hear the ex-beurocrats, ex-generals and retired judges we realise what our mohafiz army has done to us as a nation.
We as a nation have given our blood and soul to this army. Look at any cantonment; it is so modern and different to its surrounding city. The salaries, pensions and plots at retirement are paid for. They have separate hospitals called CMH. The list of privileges that we provide as a nation to our army in spite of poverty is enormous and endless.
In the 60 year history of Pakistan, the Army generals ruled 30 years and only 3 i.e. Ayub, Zia and Musharaf. These generals had unadulterated and absolute power.
Innumerable (probably 12 or 14) politicians ruled 30 years as well with disability and limitations due to obstructive agencies, army, ISI and sometimes opposition.
How is it that we always end up blaming the politicians and no one ever openly blames the Generals, ISI or government agencies. The irony is that the children of these dictators are V VIP’s even after these dictators are gone, their entire families are royalties.
The only thing is that the dictators including musharaf have nurtured these sharks i.e. mullahs, mqm and Q league and used them as B-team and leave these snakes as problems for Pakistan. The reason I say that is because this axis of evil has always alingned themselves with dictators.
Ever since musharaf came to power, he has been defaming the state in the capacity of its head, in Pakistan and abroad. Selling to the whole world that Pakistanis are terrorists just to prolong his rule.
Imposition of emergency/martail law by him was a no confidence in his own governance as he is the head of state.
Zia gave us Klasinkov, heroin and poppy generals in the army.
Musharaf has given us suicide bombings, anarchy and is personally responsible for destroying the judiciary, media and the hopes of an entire nation.
The performance of these generals started with the murder of Liaqat Ali Khan, Fatima Jinnah, Bhuttos. Victimistaion of Nawaz Sharif, Judiciary, Media, A Q Khan, Civil society and the list is endless.
Isn’t this enough to teach us a lesson and put the foot down, as a nation to reject every person and party that aligns with these dictators, make the army realize that it needs to protect the borders and not just cantonments?
omarali50, I totally agree with axcept one thing JUI, JI and PTI are establishment parties they would never side with pro-people parties.
I hope that Khawaja Sahib talk about corruption specially in customs, thana, other establishment dept.
@kinnare: I would agree with you as far as JUI and JI are concerned, but do you also think PTI is in the same category? I am not too familiar with PTI’s politics being away for so long, and Imran Khan’s flirtation with JI bothers me quite a bit, but I think it is because of his naivete and political inexperience.
Or do you think PTI is a similar animal as JI ? I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on why you consider PTI to be in the same category as the other two (MQM should be in that list as well btw, IMO)
My innocent Pakistanies
It makes me realize how innocent and ignorant my country men are specially those making comments that “The PPP, the PML-N, the ANP, the JUI, the JI and the PTI are all real parties�.
The only real parties from the above mentioned list are the PPP and JI because they do their politics based on ideology.
Forget about PML (N) as Muslim league (be it a, b, c, d, …..z) has always been a crowd of incompetent people gathered around a dictator. Don’t be deceived by innocent posture of PML (N) at the moment. The only reason NS is siding with PPP is that he want to get rid of Musharaf because he has personal score to settle with him. As soon as Musharaf is out of the scene, we will be able to see the real colors of NS. Old habits are hard to die.
Mr. Khan of PTI is hopeless. Has anybody ever asked him how much effort he has made organizing his party at grass root level. We should not live in dreams. To win election in a vast country like Pakistan, you need to make a massive effort organizing your party throughout the country not by just appearing in talk shows. Can anybody name a single other person in PTI that you know. Nobody knows any other person than Mr Khan in PTI. What type of a party is this?
MQM definatley I did not mentioned because you did not. MQM is more loyal the king himself. And they want to break Pakistan for sure. Imran khan I think cannot decide which side he wants to remain he is not a political animal. Any important happen in Pakistan and you do not see him. And he has called every one corrupt you cannot do that in politics. Plus he did took money from ISI case (19/96 human right petition by Ashgar Khan) is pending in Supreme Court.
I do not know what you mean by BTW, IMO.
@ramzi
“The only real parties from the above mentioned list are the PPP and JI because they do their politics based on ideology.”
And the ideology is to pass on the party premiership to a 19 yr old kid, instead of any competitive person in your party .. or maybe there is no competitive person in the party to begin with.
JI, I agree since they are the only one who have conducted elections in their own ranks, but again they believe in democracy .. but the only democracy which they can impose their will other wise be ready .. they are expert in “dharna’s”
@khosa
how conveniently you forget that NS political birth is result of army’s maneuvering
@kinnare
“I hope that Khawaja Sahib talk about corruption specially in customs, thana, other establishment dept.”
Ask khawaja rafiq, in private who killed his father .. he might tell you .. I heard lately he is singing honey moon songs with PPP. Politics is so brutal .. you even willing to sell your father’s grave
@ramzi
I only want to say any political party with what so ever ideoloy is a thousand times better than an Army Govt. Anyone who beleives or supports army as Govt is basically innocent.
What ever the ideology, with the passage of time if we allow political parties to run the country, the nation would itself screen out the bad people and bad ideas. We only need a consistant process and that’s it.
No emotional scenes, no one night solutions, no heroism. Just simple rule, let the politics work.
@ramzi
secondly please its time to unite ourselves, all parties should become one in voicing against dictatorship.
If we start discussing individual ideologies of parties, trust me you wouldn’t find ground to support PPP as well. That is a party where the leadership is decided on WILL of the people dying, and an 19 year old boy becomes chariman who doesnt’ even understand what is consitution.
But that’s not the point we should be aiming at, let’s support political process on the whole.
@kinnare : well, establishment _is_ the ‘kingmaker’ in my opinion (IMO) so musharrf is just a sock puppet and our loser establishment is a sockpuppet too (guess whose hand everyone got up their sock? eh?)
and re: MQM, if see their history, they have always connived with the mohajir generals and the mohijir lobby in the upper bureaucracy (very crude to say this, but at a crude level that is what MQM has done.. this “muttahida” name now is just lepa-poti as far as i’m concerned – they are ethinic through and thru ) and I agree with you, MQM is the trojan horse that the MI6 and company wish to use as their pawns if and when the time comes to break Pakistan. No wonder Altaf Bhaiyya get’s a preferrential treatment.
@taban.khamosh. MQM history should not be seen from 1980s but from 1947. Right from their they have support Army. JI which was once belong to Mohajir of Karachi and it was a Army Party. In seperation of Pakistan they were the only group called Bhiaris support Pakistan Army. It is very hard for this group to support politician who is Boluchi, Sindhi, Punjabi or Pathan.
hahahahaha
Qurban aisi qoum kay !!! aik bho comment relevant nai hai topic say aur aik bhi banda mulk kaliay nay soch raha!!
Keep Bashing each other guys!!!! And you can’t get rid of Imran Khan frm your head!!!!
i am always confused to say that whether we should blame army as a whole or just the ex army chief musharaf
on one hand when you say musharaf was a true dictator and had always been strengthen by his army uniform and thus the whole army supports him
but..
on the other hand all of us who are from pakistan or who knows about pakistan do realy know that army is a name of discipline so why would not the argument works here that they were just following the orders and same as happened now that new chief of army has been issuing statements that army should be sidelined now
so the confusion lies is that should we blame army as a whole or the chief of army staff
@farhan: What do you think?
i put my comments there to get other views as far as my own opinion is concerned i would like to see army soldiers or officers saying no to an illegal order.
if that had happend in our khalifh’s time than why cant it happen right now
@Farhan
Let me try if i can convince you.
Well in true terms, it should never be army against whom one should raise fingers. It should be the dictators which deserve to be cornered.
The problem is it’s not only a particular individual “Musharraf” who has done this. Just look from the very begining, out of 60 years of our independence more than 40 have been directly under rule of Army Generals. To me that’s pretty much a patteren, and not an individual act by any one.
I would agree with you that an ordinary soldier, or an officer does not contribute to this. But unfortunately the top 100 to 500 people on top Army posts have always participated in playing games with the whole country. Out of that lot, the very top 20 to 30 Generals at all times have been the master minds of all this business.
Now this is not about indvidual acts, rather it’s an attitude of this group of people. I shouldn’t say people, a group of ranks i should say. That’s because it’s again not those individuals, rather any one posted on those ranks would do the same. That’s how the Army elite has dictated the affairs of Pakistan.
@kinnare: scary thoughts but unfortunately true.. Jamat Islami (maududi) AFAIK was against the creation of PK but he changed his mind after it was fait-accompli and JI managed to hijack the identity of pakistan and now people think “Pak ka matlab kia, la ila-ha illaalla” is actually a true statement..
Some of these folks made the backbone of the fascst pro army anti-pakistan anti-democratic forces. JI was also quite active in “saving” masharqi pakistan along with our punjabi jawans.
I wonder what they’ll do and where they’ll go after they have destroyed pakistan.
In my opinion, Mr. Khosa’s analysis is right on the money. Pakistan army is a shame. I remember growing up in Pakistan, having so much respect for the army that I tried a couple times to recruit myself, but no success. I was very disappointed at that time, but now I believe it turned out to be a blessing in disguise for me, and I thank Allah every day for it.
Generals running the Pak army are just busy swelling their bank accounts, grabbing lands and gaining control over all of the country’s resources. Where ever there is an opportunity of making a penny, Pak army is there to stake their claim. A recent example is of the Karachi stock market (bakra mandi) during the Eid last year. Money and power, these are the two things in this world that you can never have enough of, and that is the reason that Pak army will always have influence in the governance of the country, and any politician who will try shunt them out will get the boot.
Look at any revenue generating body in the country, and you will find a retired General or Colonel, somehow running the show, and chances are that he would have no relevant knowledge to do the real job, but an excellent skill of doing the actual job, i.e. to make himself richer by every passing second.
What do the recent events in Pakistan tell you about state of Pak army and the morale of its soldiers. If you have not guessed it already, I am referring to the two scouts forts taken over by local Taliban, bombings in every major city, and ever increasing lawlessness. If General Kiyani has any morality or self-respect he should either immediately resign or arrest his former boss.
I remember watching one of Mr. Mush’s recent interview in “Aiwan-e-Sadar Se�, where he talks about elections and the steps he has taken to make them fair. Regarding opposition ranting about election rigging he says something like: “…………..aur duniya bhar mein apni aur apne mulk ki be-izati karwate phirein…..� (…….they (opposition leaders) are embarrassing themselves and the country…). I want somebody to counter this phrase to his face and ask him who has been embarrassing the country in the whole world and cite all these instances of Pak army running away leaving the posts behind, ever increasing lawlessness and insecurity, bombings, price hike, division amongst the masses, blatant violations of human rights, inaccessibility to basic requirements, and the list goes on and on.
Good effort, highly appreciated. Would be nice if GM start with a preamble about the guest. A summary at the end. I could not understand the context. I still do not know, which “Khan sahib” Mr. Khwaja is competing against. You can save user from extra googling if the production is self-contained.
he is one hell of a blunt and outspoken guy
i would love to see the elections go ahead even though personaly i am against this setup as it is been held under musharaf but still the real game will begin after elections
musharaf is in trouble by all means: all the recent statements coming from army chief indicating that they are not in a mood of molesting in politics again so that side is almost or more like closed.
flour crisis,electricity crisis,gas crisis and the new reports of increase in fuel prices will ditch the hole even bigger for PML-Q
ppp on the other hand is wounded after their leader’s assasination,PML-N has got their own records to straight with musharaf.
so imagine if musharaf has to go for fair elections,he will be signing his own death warrant and if he dont than lawyers movement,media,all the bigger political players they will be up the ante
so things are going towards betterment just for one more month we have to bear musharaf and i am sure on my birthday(18th march) i will be celebrating it with full joy and that will be the demise of musharaf and his regime
i am just dying to see what will sheikh rasheed and muhammad ali durrani sort of guys will do
i am loving it
Allah bless pakistan
I like this person as he played very good role throught the last 5years in and outside parliament.
he is a genuine Lion.
Wish him good luck in coming elections.
this guy speaks clearly about the political scenario. although, their disappearance from the post-wuqla rallies is strange to a greater extent.
@ramzi
that is your ignorance that doesn’t let you know any other name except IK. you probably need to go through the fundamental conjunctions of the party.
Well done brother Saad. INSHAALLAH u will win
there is still a big if… on feb 18 elections first thing and than what will happen after the elections
if ppp dont get the majority seats which they think they are eligible now which i disagree with even though the assasination of benazir was a huge loss and shock
the real question is about the pressure which normally comes from different circles and we all knows that PML-N always falls for arab countries and PPP always falls for western pressure as they were the ones who actually brokered that deal
so there should be some other way,but it all will start after the elections as i dont see any movement against musharaf before elections….. todays meeting b/w dumb attorney general and AH was probably the part of things to stay low
there is only 2 options left right now,instead we are heading towards another martial law which luks very bleak or a unity form government which army will definitely support as they do wanted to get out of this mess.
lets see……………… a month more exactly from now on
count down begins………….
Mr rafiq seems very genuine. He is honest and very mature politician. I have a gut feeling that PML-N may garnish more than 50% seats in the national assembly and will get majority in Punjab. My only concern is wehter the election will be free, fair and transparent. Already, there are rumors of massive riggings. I also hope the polls will take place on Feb, 18 and there will be no furhter delay.
main btatee hoon sabb koo.
jabb main college main parhtee thee ye saad rafique aik number ka ghundaa mwalee aur badmassh hota tha MSF ka.
choroo aap sabb , idharr canada aa jayoo. idharr light nahin jatee aur khanay peenay kee cheezain sasstte hain.
idharr army aur public ka living style bhee aik jaisa hay.
@ Khosa,Farhan,Masood.
Very interesting discussion is going on between you guys. I disagree in some of the points like army rule in our country.
Every where in the world, army has some interference in their country, every country except few army has very important role. Unfortunately, Pakistan is a uneducated and poor country, no basic education , no social education and no basic rights. the army as a unit take advantages of this poor country and rule, how they like it. Same with the politicians, they use people by wrong giving prophecy.
lets take example of turkey, a muslim and secular country. 99% Turkish are muslim, but wearing head scraf is ban, and if the president or prime minister wants to finished the ban on wearing scarf, the army dont want that and pressurise any govenment to run the country as a secular country and not as a islamic country. President listen to them and run their country according to the wish of the army. remember (power is authority)
If Pakistan government listen to the army, they can not only rule 5 years but also give healthy atmosphere to the people of pakistan.
Bhutto with Yahya khan and Ayub Khan.
Bhutto with Zia ul Haq.
NS with Musharaf
Politicians must understand , if they try to ruin army institution with their power (basically come from looted money) THE ARMY HAS ALSO POWER WITH MONEY, LATEST ARMS,EDUCATION AND DISIPLINE.
My suggesstion army and politicians work together and understand each other and respect each other.
any suggesstions.
kurkosmici, my friend
You have an interesting point of view and i respect that.
Hazrat Musa did not do a power sharing deal with Firaun, nither should we as a nation do such deals with the firauns of today.
Giving them a way out and showing them a passage may be more appropriate.
Our army is repeatedly advised not to go out of cantonemnts in uniforms or official cars for sake of safety.
Will they go to war, if they are so scared for their lives? Are wars fought and won without uniforms and army vehicles? Is the enemy on borders not prepared to slaughter?
It is a long debate, but it is good to have a debate, that is what keeps the hope alive.
One who does not hope has already lost.
The information/invitation below is for all my friends in and around Boston, USA.
I am going and want to give our senior government officials a piece of my mind, please join me in this KARE-KHAIR(noble cause).
AoA Dear Friends:
Please see attached invite to attend a Meeting and Dinner at Harvard Kennedy School.
The Dinner will start at 6:30 PM sharp and will conclude at about 10:30 PM.
This will be a good opportunity to meet with the senior government executives from Pakistan, who are attending “Executive Leadership Program” at Harvard Kennedy School.
Details are:
When? Wednesday, January 23, 2008 6:30 PM to 10:30 PM
Cost: There is no cost for PAGB Members
RSVP at: http://www.myvillage.us/my/pagb ; (If you are not a member, use the same link to become one now.)
Maximum 30; Space available on first come first serve basis
Address:
Malkin Penthouse
Harvard’s Kennedy School
79 JFK Street, Cambridge, MA
Direction at: http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/
He is honest guy,Pakistan needs politicians like him.He is not afraid of speaking his
mind to Nawaz Sharif as well and this is the only thing which differentiates PMLn
and PPP because ppp leaders had always been very obedient to their
leader.People like Khawaja Asif,Khawaja Saad Rafiq,Javed Hashmi etc have
enough courage to differ with the opinion of Nawaz Sharif.I pray he wins.
that is the best part. army and politicians should work together. towards corruption and plots and plum postings. what has the army got to do with politics… it should do its job which it is supposed to do. these politicians with the exclsuion of butto cannot even dream of interfering in army affairs not to talk of “destroying” the army.
Leave your response!
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Recent Comments
Discuss Topics
Blog Comments
Search