Wow, Wikipedia too is not a reliable sources, How can you believe on books (so called History books) which are written by one person only and most of them just try to portray oneself as savior and accuse their personal enemies of everything that has happent on this earth from the days of Adam!

If you would have been aware of how wikipedia works, you would have not doubted its authenticity! Anyways, I don’t want to engage with you in this endless debate.

I can tell you number of quotes from books about the attrocities of Pak Army and its islamic extremists wings such as Razakars, Al-Badr and Al-Shams, which I’m sure you have courage to deny all those blatantly. So, it is useless. I don’t know from which part you are, but come in Sindh, Balochistan or NWFP, you will rarely hear anyone speaking ill for Pakistan, but DOES THAT MEAN THEY ARE NOT BEING SUPPRESSED. THEIR RIGHTS ARE NOT BEING CLEARLY VIOLATED??? We should know as Pakistanis, how the wealth of this country that is generated from smaller provinces is spent only in one part of the country which enjoy everthing good in Pakistan including Army, Establishment and Beaurocracy and rest only suffers or sacrifice.

About Junejo, I think it was you whom I told you that more I learnt about him, I couldn’t help but to appreciate his role in Zia’s Dictatorship. But even then if we try to analyze we cannot blame Bhutto much because, the dictatorship was the first time experience, and neither it was too brutal, and pakistan’s economy was progressing. Beside, Bhutto’s role in Ayub’s cabinet was remarkable, his foreign policy has been proved to be great impetus on the Kashmir Cause, Pak-China relations, Pak-Iran-Turkey economic pact and many other. When Bhutto saw ayub getting out of hands, he resigned from His cabinet.

But in the times of Junejo, Zia was a proven hypocrite, his main victims were Sindhis themselves, the MRD was started in Sindh and there are many martyrs of democracy in Sakrand and Khairpur form Sindh in Zia’s time. Most of the Sindhi intellectuals, politicians and professors were prisoned without any charge and still carry the stamps of Whipers given as gifts from Zia, on their backs. Junejo had better idea, what Dictatorship can do then Bhutto. But still, whoever side with Ayub (including Bhutto) in his dictatorship must be blamed.

Your argument that “if Jamaat had committed those crimes it could never had such a vote bank in bangladesh”…please excuse me but i can only term it as silly. I’m sure as a learned person you are aware of MQM’s role in Karachi. But how many seats it wins even today?

1971 elections were the tipping point of Bangladesh but it is not created merely due to 1971 elections, it has a long history of denial, dominations and exploitations committed by west pakistanis (mostly punjab) and JI has always played a B-team of Pakistan’s Army. Their actions in Bangladesh (even before the elections) are much more stronger then the words of Bhutto during the election period.

It is only anti-bhutto establishent and its allies in pakistan who has blamed Bhutto much more then his real crimes, as I said earlier he is made an escape goat. Sheikh Mujeeb-u-rehman himself attended the first Islamic conference on the invitation of Bhutto. The real culprits (Mullah and Military) are still ruining this country and no one even points fingers to them.

Apologies for too long message.

I am just making my assessment about FM’s real intentions with regard to the setup she is involved in right now. No Pakistan lover can have an alliance with a fascist party like MQM and PML-Q. That is exactly whatis the case between MQM and her mother’s party. I am against many other established parties as well, but that is a different level of discontent. Somehow they can be tolerated and influenced into some good actions for the betterment of Pakistan. In the case of MQM and PML-Q I just don’t have ANY hope of good actions. I see these parties as a threat to Pakistan’s existence. I see FM’s party linked to MQM it tells me that we should be VERY careful. IS FM a wolf in the disguise of a lamb? If it is true then we are in real trouble. The cocktail of FM (PPP) and MQM could turn out as true disaster for Pakistan and maybe lead us to some stage where there is no way back other than dismemberment Pakistan (God forbid that). I am aware of that she has not big support right now, but one never knows in PAK lota politics that someone gets an “idea” and wants to use the famous Bhutto name to score some cheap points/votes. So, my brother – in this case I would say that let the doubt go against her. We cannot gamble with our beloved Pakistan…never, inshallah!

/Saqib

re: wikipedia; scroll to the bottom of the article and read the footnotes and source material

In any case, if Jamaat had committed those crimes it could never had such a vote bank in bangladesh.

JI does have its share of goons in karachi and lahore. I for one have never liked its policies. But one has to be fair while criticizing someone.

The reason that JI was never blamed for creation of bangladesh is pure and simple; it could not be blamed for it.

It had only five seats in the assembly elected as a result of 1970 elections. Awami League and PPP were the two main parties. Based on simple numbers, Awami League should have formed the government. It was PPP that opposed Awami League’s right to govern. It was PPP which opposed the holding of inaugural session of the assembly in Dhaka and refused to attend it. When teh army action started, it was Mr. Bhutto who said ‘ Thanks God Pakistan has been saved ‘.

Army rightfully gets most of the blame for separation of East Pakistan but Bhutto Sahib was a part of that military regime for 9 years. In fact he was one of the most active member of the regime and the second most publicly recognized face of teh regime after Ayub Khan. So if PPP gets some blame for creation of bangladesh, it is not without any basis.

@ Fahim23

You dont like Junejo’s association with Zia regime but why Bhutto’s association with Ayub regime does not bother you?

Regardles of what you say. It is a fact that PPP is considered as a party created by a Bhutto, for the Bhuttos and MUST be run by a Bhutto. Names matters and obviously not politics.

Off course you cannot “take” any Bhutto as a leader. Your “democracy” is crippled to choose from certian Butto clan members whom you think have leadership credentials. You don’t have the capability to look beyond that. You see….THIS IS SAD that you REFUSE to use your common sense. If you had been using that then you would have shown that you are a true democratic party by having elections within the party and by NOT appointing anyone as a life time president/leader of the party. In other words PPP has dictatorial tendencies withing their own party. How can we expect them to promote democracy in PAK? By the way they are not alone in this hypocricy. Many other parties are just like that as well.

/Saqib

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Badr_(East_Pakistan)

May be it is an exaggeration but it is said upto 200,000 to 400,000 women were “raped”! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Bangladesh_atrocities

I at least cannot dare to call someone a ‘true patriot’ who is widely accused of organizing mass murders and rapes.

Being so called “Islamic Party” even today they operate with “Goon and Don” styles in Karachi and lahore. I don’t understand from where they learn Islam.

The point i was trying to make is that, the Bangladesh was created as an outcome of Military Dictatorship and lavishness and incompetance of Pakistan Army. If any political party that is directly involved in this breakup of country is JI not PPP. But never in my life I have heard anyone in Pakistan holding responsible for the creation of Bagladesh to JI! Sara nazla humesha Bhutto aur PPP per girta hay!

In addition to Muslim League, JI was the only party that had a significant presence in East Pakistan. At the height of indian sponsored insurgency when Mukti Bahini, the militia of awami league trained and armed by india, was massacring inncent non-bengalis and bengali supportesr of United Pakistan, tehre was no jone to protect them.

Army action had not started yet and army was in barracks. Police force had become non-existant. At that time, Al-Badr and Al-Shams were created to safeguard the lives of Pakistanis both bengalis and non-bengalis. These organizations were overwhelmingly manned by bengali workers of JI. Later on, during military action, they supported the army and fought Mukti Bahini.

These were the true patriots who risked their own lives whil etrying to save Pakistan.

Besides, if JI had been involved in killing of innocent bengalis then it could never have got such support as it presently has in bangladesh. It still gets more votes and seats in bangladesh than it gets in Pakistan.

come on Make some sense.
its not inheritances of leadership. Its what the Party and members of PPP like.
PPP and its members are free to elect its leadership.

Being Bhuttos is not a criteria. Everyone who is Leader in Pakistan people Party {Even Makhdoom amin fahim, Nisar Khoroo, Raza Rabbani} all are Bhuttos.
In Sindh Bhutto doesn’t mean a Clan , its means a leader {a true Leader} of the people of Pakistan who they look up to, who gives them hope.
thats why Mumtaz bhutto is not a Bhutto , Ghanwa bhutto Fatima Bhutto , Murataza Bhutto are not the Bhuttos in the eyes of the People of Sindh [and Pakistan} thats why inspite of being from Bhutto clan they cannt win a Single Seat from Sindh, While Zardari inspite being non Bhutto {as Race} is leader of the Largest Polical Party of Pakistan.

understand Bhutto doesn’t mean a Clan in PPP.