It has been reported that MQM is planning another 12th May to sabotage the lawyers movement. Earlier this week, MQM activists threatened the leaders of Lawyers movement and warned them of consequences similar to 12th May in case a public rally is held in the support of deposed judiciary.
In another development this week, the bench of PCO Judges dismissed the request for enquiry on the terror events of 12th May in Karachi for so called “National Interest”.
An ANP leader and a PPI leader were killed in Karachi today. …things do not look good.
shame on those people who declare themselves as democratic,but they are qatils , outwardly they pretend as suppotres of poor.
shame ZALMO,CURSE UPON YOU PEOPLE.
It is very easy to kill people even in the west.
What is not easy is to escape justice after doing that. This is a good deterence against crime.
MQM was given protection. PCO judges appointed by Sindh Governor (who has 43 murder cases and 30 Lakh bounty – dead or alive) have decided that there is no case to answer.
MQM Munafiqeen were saying that on 12th May they were victims, yet the whole Pakistan new that they were murderers. When PCO judges acquitted murderers, their Lawyer said: ‘Haq Aur Insaaf Ki Fateh Hoi’.
We can only stop this by restoring original judiciary (of 3rd of November). If 12th May criminals are not brought to justice, this will keep going on.
It may already have started with the assassination of an ANP leader in Karachi:
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=12794
This time MQM will try to take advantage of the media gagging as there will be no one out there covering their criminal activities. The best way to cleanse this cancer is to root out its origin, which lies in London. The problem is that as long as the SOB(Mush) is occupying the top slot, this may not be possible but I am sure that there are always back doors available to get the job done.
Now we know what the two “Patriots of Pakistan” talked about and planned in their 2 hour meeting in London.
@Optimist,
Following is a good article from Cowasjee on Ishrat -ul-Ibad:
http://www.dawn.com/weekly/cowas/20030420.htm
Another crime of PCO judges: 499 Farm Houses Land Corruption case met the same fate. That case was one of the reason CJ was treated in this way
http://jang.com.pk/jang/feb2008-daily/07-02-2008/main4.htm
Anyone know more about the generals who died in the helicopter “crash” today? were they on the Mush side or on the Kiyani side (I think there _are_ sides now)
so this Gujrati Gunda (shujaat) talked with Altaf kalia in London. I appeal to all Pakistanis living in UK to put pressure on British MPs and tell people about MQM´s plans.
MQM has tamed Geo and as other media channels cannot give live coverage so now they feel much free..second PCO judges are in courts to give protection to killers..thats why free judiciary is necessary and ofcourse that does not suit to Qatil League and Altaf kalia Killer Movement
Really pushing pakistan to the brink. PML-N is the only election contesting party demanding the restoration of judges which is sad, as everyone will soon realize the importance of a free judciary, but it may be too late. All of us should do something to make a difference; many people were suggesting to establish a fund for the lawyers. Lawyers are the only one on the streets, so if they get the impression that the people abroad are really with them , they will not be an easy nut to crack.
@ taban khamosh
I just pray that they were on Mush’s side. ‘Khas Kum Jahan Paak’.
Overral army’s role has made me a bit bitter about them. I remember fighting with my Sindhi friends and defending Army (not Generals). Now I know what the Sindhis knew all along. I feel reluctant to support even ordinary soldier now, despite the fact that belong to a Province that is blamed for everything including the Army. And I come from a place that is known ‘Takht Lahore’ by smaller provinces.
I just want to assure all suppressed races in Pakistan that ordinary Punjabi is equally victim of injustice by ruling Junta. The oppressors include Army and their supporter Qatils – MQM & Qenchi league.
News Update:
9 vehicles including 3 buses put on fire. Lawyers rally was scheduled for today, Thursday.
Daily Jang Update
News Update:
5th Internet cable cut.
Khaleej Times Update
AAJ TV HAS BEEN BLACKED OUT AGAIN. AAJ TV
http://www.aaj.tv/news/news.php?pg=0&show=detail&nid=3
@optimist: I asked because “aircraft accidents” is army’s favorite method of assassinating their opponents inside the organization. Looks like things might be coming to a head with karachi flaring up, nawaz openly saying he will side with the judges.
Well, Pak armay has been a protection and extortion racket for the longest time… and though regular soldiers are just cannonfodder, the officer class is totally complicit in the crimes committed against the people at the behest of their foreign masters.
The only thing that bothers me is that after our complete ruin these jurnail MoFo’s are going to get away when the ship sinks, when what should happen is that thei M*F*King heads should roll on the streets of islamabad.
I guess I should talk about the criminal apathy that Pakistani awaam exhibit, but after the kind of betrayals meted out to them by successive generations of “leaders”, they are the last ones on my sh*t-list as it were.
Both ANP and MQM were planning this fight for long time and this Muhajir vs Pathan contest was on the cards by both the parties. Both the parties have accumulated lot of weapons for last few months.
This will actually help both the parties in elections. MQM always thrived on regional fights, over the last few years, his graph has gone down and this contest will give them a much needed boost on upcoming elections.
On the other hand, ANP is trying to cash the dying popularity of MMA and has a chance to capture the MMA votes bank and would come as a big winner in elections due to this fight in Karachi.
bahot hai.n zulm ke dast-e-bahaanaa-juu ke liye
jo cha.nd ahl-e-junuu.N tere naam levaa hai.n
bane hai.n ahl-e-hawas muddaii bhii, mu.nsif bhii
kise wakiil kare.n, kis se mu.nsifii chaahe.n
Hello members,
One request from another member. Please refain from using KUTTA for Mush, Chories and MQM….. its an insult to Kutta.
Can we also start the protest to UK parliament/cabinet to do the back ground check on Altaf? The terrorist party i.e MQM and its chief should be accountable for thir deeds. They should not escape the incidence of May 12th easily as they have in the past…….
When an absconder murderer is nominated as governor and exrtremly corrupt man was labelled as the most honest chief minister then one should accept jungle raj in the karachi. If any body heard the stupid and useless speeches of their qaid altaf dada ,then one should understand that how deprive is our karachi of true leadership. A man who never come to pakistan for last 18 years are forcing people to accept his invisble sacrifices and acts for his nation. Those MQM men are in power for the last 15 years but look at the pathetic conditions of Karachi, no power, no water , no roads and no swerage system for majority of population of karachi .Day by day sharp increase in street crimes and gun point robbery without any follow up is part of karachi culture now and they are blaming feudal characters for this down falll.Are we really a foolish nation who has no choice except to accept the worst characters of society as our leaders.No doubt one more serious blood shed will be planned to postpone the elections.As punjab has done his job by killing benzir now its time for sind mangement to come out for helping their don mussarf.
@ Nazia
I can certainly understand your grievances against the leadership of MQM, but still at least appreciate the good work done as well. There is a shortage of power in whole Pakistan so what it has to do with MQM? the same applies to water shortage, but for your comments on roads, i guess no one will buy it, same goes for sewerage system. Karachi was always the last item in the list of development. whatever Karachi you see now has been developed by its own, or by the people who live there. So finally we are having the development i.e. fly overs, signal free corridors and a new sewerage system is not a bother i guess. I will not rule out the possibility of corruption in these development projects but at the end which development project in Pakistan is free of corruption?
All men representing or having any political affiliation are equipped with sophisticated weaponry except Imran Khan PTI. So its a survival of fittest. Karachi is a home to settlers from the whole country, so its not specific that street crimes are only due to activist of MQM. The suicide blasts are not conducted by the MQM activists. Last person who was shot dead in landhi is from sialkot i guess, who was also involved in the robbery of a bank in Malir.
Leadership issue is highly sensitive, and applies to whole Pakistan, can you name any party whose leadership is not criminal or involved in criminal activities? i guess your answer will be Imran Khan which i agree as well.
your last comment regarding are we a foolish nation. Yes we are a foolish nation. I dont think you have any doubt about that. Richard Boucher yesterday presented a report to the senate committee stating that ” Superior Judiciary will not be restored in Pakistan, and if the newly elected government tries to restore the judiciary the President will exercise his rights and will dissolve the new assembly. Now what can you conclude out of that?
If people of Pakistan really have the guts to remove military from administrative functions then only this nation can survive. as rightly concluded by Dr. Ayesha Siddiqa in her book Military Inc. that “nation pays the price for their aspirations, last 60 years we wanted the strong defence and considered military as the only savior of the nation so this is the price you have to pay for it” whether you like it or not.
[...] Source: Pakistan Politics [...]
@Scorpion
- MQM leadership, below Altaf, unconditionally bows to the Pir of London who is nothing but a terrorist. Everyone is afraid of him because he can kill anyone through his hitmen, a.k.a sector incharges, who does not agree with his policies. Look at what happened to Saleem Shahzad and that is just one small example.
- MQM leadership can not even breath without the Pir of London’s permission. If you watch any MQM leader speaking, you will see Altaf’s picture in the background and they call him Quaid-e-Tehrik
- The people of Karachi are helpless against this mafia group primarily because standing up to them means losing your life and it is that simple. Some people may not believe this but this is the fact
- It will take an extreme effort to purge Karachi from the corrupt MQM leadership
I do agree with you that other political leaders – with the exception of IK – are also corrupt and have done misdeeds in the past, like NS, BB, to name a few but no one comes even close to what the Pir of London has done to the city of Karachi. The most unfortunate thing is that the SOB(Mush) has been providing support to him just to save his own skin.
WHY MQM IS POPULAR IN MOHAJIRS:
Lets call a spade a spade. People in Karachi were not welcomed by Sindhis. Both were to blame. Sindhis wanted to impose their language on Mohajirs and Mohajirs considered their language to be superior.
Mohajir people sacrificed for Pakistan. However being a Mohajir, created an identity gap. This was the reason Mohajirs rejected Sindhi PPP and PML because they were dominated by Sindhi speaking people. Mohajir people wanted equal treatment. They saw appeal in Jamat-e-Islami that promised them equal rights and told them that unjust system should be uprooted. This was a good thing to suppress identity crisis.
Some Mohajir students realised the underlying psyche of Jamat-e-Islami support was not religion but the fear factor and identity crisis. They formed All Pakistan Mohajir Student Organisation. These were the same students who were first in Jamiat. They changed sides and used same violent tactics that they were using in Jamiat.
Zia saw an opportunity to counter PPP in Sindh (Army mentality doesn’t consider social factors, only battlefield tactics are important for them). Zia and Army supported and brought these students to become active in everyday politics. With PPP workers behind bars and facing lashes, MQM ruled the streets.
Sadly, due to our faults as Pakistanis, we failed to assure urdu speaking people of Karachi. They are also to blame for victim mentality. Whenever MQM boycotts, they vote Jamat-e-Islami, not PPP or PML. This is identity crisis.
MQM (and JI) appeal to Urdu speaking people. They tell them that system is unjust (and thus create anger and victim mentality) and resistance is necessary (thus create violence).
Unless victim mentality is removed, MQM will keep on winning. If not MQM, any party (like JI) that believe in violent resistance. As far peace in Karachi, it is a far fetched idea because Half of the population is Urdu speaking while the other half comes from different areas. They will never vote one party.
Has anybody noticed that majority of Jamat-e-Islami leadership is Urdu speaking? OR they come from families who have not done very well and they feel angry with their parents’ achievements?
Other races in Pakistan, even though they are not well off, choose PPP or PML because they do not see their race as an issue.
Best support we can offer to people of Karachi is to ensure them that they are not in danger. This is this sense of danger that keeps them under parties like MQM. We should all be united as one nation. Fore father of these people gave their lives for Pakistan and chose Pakistan as their destination. They deserve equal (if not more) treatment. Even the perception of inequality should be discouraged.
There was another factor that had created resentments in the hearts of the Urdu speaking people in Karachi. Most of the government top slots in Karachi were awarded to either less qualified Sindhis or retired army folks or people from Punjab. Back in the 70s and the early 80s, if you went to any government controlled department, like the Karachi Port Trust (KPT), KESC, etc, the people sitting at the highest level there were mostly non-urdu speaking. This was bound to create resentments because Urdu speaking was and still is the most educated population in Pakistan. When I was in the NED University, there were students from interior Sind who were admitted under the quota system, introuced by Z A Bhutto, when those students were no way qualified enough to get into a professional university.
Identity crises has also played a role. If people from Sindh are called Sindhis, people from Balochistan are called Balochs then people from Karachi also needed and identity. I strongly disagree with the word “Mohajir” as their identity because my parents also migrated from the Indian Punjab and settled into Punjab and by definition they were also Mohajirs or immigrants. When MQM first came into existance, there were a lot of debates among people of various ethnic groups in Karachi about the word “Mohajir”. The Parsis, the Agha Khanis, the Bohris, the Punjabis, the Pathans and the others did not like this word because their forefathres were also immigrants.
All these resentments and factors played their role and they fell into the trap of the top and corrupt MQM leadership.
I will not agree with some of the comments here made by people who really hate MQM. I hope 12th May incident never happens again. Ameen. It was the biggest blunder by MQM.But the photo that is posted with this article were the pathans who were the workers of MQM. Now coming to the point why Karachi people support MQM so every Pakistani is independent and they can chose any one and every one should respect a democratic process. The problem is there is no tolerance among different provincess. Though I have voted for Imran but still before 1996 Karachi people were brutally killed by PML and PPP govt. and it has started back in Ayub’s era. Women were treated badly by bus drivers which has ended when some people from Lalukhait started stabbing these bus and Rikshaw drivers. Khokhra Park, Army operation, quota system were the worst eamples. Let me ask one question here, how many people from Karachi are in govt sectors in Karachi. During Zia era no burea crate was selected from Karachi. Every province still complaint abt Punjabi Feudals. The problem will not be solved by crushing people you don’t agree but the solution to these problem is provincial autonomy which I am sure Punjabi feudals will not agree. If you ask anyone about it,,, Nawaz, Shujaat, Ilahi etc every one will agree but no one will dare to go for it. But optimist let me tell you one thing PML & PPP were the worst leaders of Pakistan so please keep them aside. I had some hope in Imran but he sometimes do some funny things b/c of inexperience so keep him aside. Though I don’t support MQM but it’s a fact that MQM is still a favourite party in Karachi and after this city govt MQM has gain it’s popularity again in Karachi.
@nam
But you also have to agree that soon after MQM came into existance, all those people who had resentments fell prey to the false hopes and promises of the MQM top leadership. MQM is not as popular among the Urdu speaking today as it was in the 80s and the early 90s because people have seen it that it is not changing the lives of anyone and that it has its own agenda. You will also not diagree (I hope not) that MQM forcefully collects money from various businesses and people in Karachi and the major portion of that money goes to London.
I still remember that in the early 80s when the MQM phenomenon was at its paek, I was told by one of my friends who was an Urdu speaking that our house was in the list of people who were not Mohajirs. Such was the hatred that MQM had created among people and on the ethnic grounds,
Hey folks, I like this discussion, I’m learning a lot from this. Let us please keep the discussion informative like this instead of fighting (I know I am guilty of this too)
@Adnan,
If your comments carry weight, most of the participants on this site will not oppose them. I would also like to see that admin open a discussion on the news that Zardari might be elected as the PM if PPP wins elections.
I am fully agree with the comments of Adnan that this site is just supports punjab politics…the last blast in khi they never posted anything but soon after blast in lahore happened and they had all news.
I am eagrly waiting for Feb 18 election and want to see NS winning election, restoration of judges etc.
then will see what will happen with SINDH and specially khi which is growing and growing even bhatha mafia, Dacoit (all came from Punjab) and from Police corrupt depart (Almost 80% from Punjab and NWFP)
Hope that NS will take actions after winning election. I hope!!
Is it true that MQM is using Khokhrapar rail link to bring people in large quantity from Bihar and U.P to settle them around Karachi, Pasni, Gawader and other close by sea shore areas to change demographic nature in this area for their future Urdu Desh. Also indigenous fishermen were forced out of prime islands in this area to build Dubai style high rise buildings. I heard that land is already being sold to MQM walas at dirt cheap rates.
I know that last year, MQM offered Baluchistan Government one Dollar per acre for some uninhibited coastal areas. Some Baluch Parliamentarians were very upset and called it a part of Urdu Desh movement. News were immediately suppressed and have not heard anything since then. I would appreciate if someone knows what’s going on there.
@ Adnan
Are you sure that you are a PPP worker. I just saw this comment by someone call Adnan on pkpolitics:
“those who oppose Musharraf, i would like to ask them one thing. who would you replace him with.
a-Nawaz Sharif:
who created ittefaq sugar mills and other big businesses from your and my money..
b-Benazir:
Corruption kee dayvee, during her reign, her husband had stables for breeding horses that had AC’s running 24hrs a day on govt money.
c- Imran Khan:
Play boy whose scandals are very well known today… and today he supports and stands with religious parties.
d- Maulvi’s:
Do number.
now you know why people in pakistan dont come out of their houses against the present govt. they have seen it all. keeping all this in mind please if some one has an alternative i would like to hear it…”
IF THAT ARE YOUR VIEWS, how come you are playing Punjabi/Sindhi card? Is this your attempt to change our discussion and save Mush/MQM???? Remember Admin does have track of IP addresses.
see another example of not seeing khi/sind growing. this is discrimination.
@ Imtiaz
did u dream it that MQM is bringing ppl from Bihar and UP?
if govt wants to make tallest buildings like in dubai then whats the problem? for your info karachi is a part of Pakistan…
thats what we didnt get in PPP and NS govt in the past as well as ZIA. But NOW karachi is growing, roads, jobs, high tech, buildings, car pooling etc…
you must be happy my dear seeing this growth in Karachi…Cheers.
Oops! spoke too soon! Never under-estimate bhayya-power!
@optimist: I think this should answer your question re: security of certain segments of “urdu speaking” population .. they do this kind of unprovoked shit all the time. What bothers me is that we’ve had at least 3 generations of Pakistani’s grown up since the partitions, but some people even in the newest generations still act like they just escaped the frucking fasaadaat (and we’re supposed to take the guilt trip for it.. should’a stayed there as far as I’m concerned, and if you’re here, take the new identity.. because it was your bullshit doqaumi nazriya that duped all of us into this god-dammned mess)
some nations are just fasaadi by nature, even god can’t fix them so he has to send kabhi patthar ka azaab to kabhi sholay kaa azaab
I admire MQM look the absconder Leader Altaf sitting in UK for the last 18 years and moving the people like puppets….. and look at the intelligence of the people who are dying for the idiot who is living in luxury. By the way what sacrifices has he given so far????
Dear qadir,
For your comment, on February 7th, 2008 5:15 pm, I would like to say that I am happy for Khi/Sind growing. But let me know if Sindh, other than the areas mainly dwelled by Urdu Speaking are also being developed. Why do you think its discriminatory to discuss the issues related to proper distribution of the resources of the country. I don’t live in Karachi, but some concerned citizens of Sind have brought up this issue many times in our media. This is a matter of concern for every loyal Pakistani.
@ Amir Hameed
I guess by now after reading all the comments from P’s of Pakistan you must have realised why people of Karachi like sticking to MQM.
@Amir Hameed: (rant alert! I’ll try to clean it up and post on my blog when I have more time but maybe you can extract some meaning out of this gibberish for now)
Well I am not a big believer in the two nation theory. It was a stupid idea, we should have had a federation of western states (if at all) based on cultural criteria rather than this pretentious sh*t they came up with.. I mean really “Pak”istan ? compared with “Hindu”stan ?? who are “paleed” compared to us? huh huh? wink wink, nudge nudge!! Right out of the annals of Divide and Congure from the Imperial desk of some a$$hole in the imperial government.
And based on what? Muslims being a “nation” ? that is the weirdest definition of nation if I ever heard one.. I have more respect for the likes of “revivalist” who at least come right out and say Muslims are one nation, therefore they should have ONE sovereign entity (I do not agree with those sentiments btw). That is the logical conclusion of the 2NT! It should have been called ONE NATION THEORY, otherwise it is BS!
So, we have this group of “Muslim Leaders” — who just “happen” to be the forefathers of the section of mohajirs who are still the core of the troublemakers in Pakistan — who quaked in their shoes just thinking of having to compete with Hindus so they give up, basically get used like the TOOLS they were by the british (who wanted to break it up for their own purposes) and opt for a FAKE nation.
Now, we in Pakistan , after it’s creation — and you must have figured out by now I am from one of “the other” nationalities in Pakistan — were given the impression that some degenerate decayed and defeated “culture” from Lukhnow was supposed to be the epitome of what ought to be our goal for a “utopian Pakistan”, Bengali aspirations for fulfillment of identity were brutally suppressed (by Punjabi’s yes, but at _WHOSE_ behest?)
All in the name of DoQaumi nazriaya and Urdu (which is basically code for Urdu speaking supremacy over others and a lot of people still behave like that TO this DAY! ), when ALL the top level jobs were filled by essentially those who would call themselves “muhajir” now.. (this is my understanding maybe someone can add some numbers ) And this is also supported by the muhajir claims because it is true, Muhajirs _were_ the most educated and they DID serve in all kinds of positions (but there is a very damning conclusion that can be drawn from this — They were incharge when our death spiral into oblivion began and THEY collaborated and consired with the Feudals in keeping the feudal system.. Ab magarmach kay Aansoo bahanay ke zaroorat naheeN JageerdaarooN aur Quran say Shaadi kay baaray maiN — You supported those monsters to the HILT when you were in all the key positions and still are btw)
So we became a fake nation “Pakistani” and everything was good as long as Muhajir bureaucrats in league (no pun intended hahaha) with the feudals of punjab and the jurnails in the army ran the show while dutifully being subservient to the Brits and the US (47-68).
All this time the rest of the nationalities were being given the bullshit that we are one nation and blah blah blah (remember one unit? WTF was that all about??)… the trouble started with the awakening and eventual massacre and separation of Bangladesh. And who was fore-front in the paramilitary forces? (you guessed it.. idiot punjabi’s and jamaat islaami (ring a bell?) murdering Bengali’s by hundreds of thousands. see optimist’s comment re: JI’s role in development of “Muhajir” identity)
Now, when the different nationalities are rising, and this tabqa sees that their jig is up, they start talking about making Jinnah Pur (ANOTHER FAKE F*KKING COUNTRY!!! For crying out loud!)
The truth is that there are people who migrated, sacrificed and lost everything and started from negative (not even zero) in Pakistan. We welcomed them, respected them and accepted them as such.. but there was a small minority who never wanted to be part of the new country (that they had a hand in creating).. but they always treated it as a FAKE fiction, and used it’s people’s emotions, the two nation theory, Islam whatever they could get their hands on to keep the levers of power..
After all, if you don’t have a problem with becoming “Canadian” when you get to Kannada by hook or crook, why do you have a problem indentifying as a sindhi AFTER Being there for 4-5 generations? You still make the distinction.. so that means that the racist supremacist thinking has been making its way into the younger generations minds some how? and it is not sindhi’s fault btw.
But that is just not possible given the demographics of Pakistan. So, now we have the retreat of the “DoQaumi” nazriya and its degeneration into the “Muhajir” identity.. which we shouldn’t have to have unless some people were keen on KEEPING that identity.. because they thought it was somehow “superior” to all this Sindhi/Pashtoon/Pujabi/Balochi riff-raff ??
After all most punjabi’s who migrated from india.. have completely assimilated into the punjabi population and are very successfull.. you don’t see a large number of them taking part in fasaadaats be it under JI or MQM or for Zia or Mush (there is also this mysterious nexus between this “muhajir” element and the jurnails who “just happen to be” muhajirs.. ) How many of the martial law administrators were “muhajirs” and how many were supported to the hilt by a core segment of the Muhajir organizations (JI and now MQM) ?? yes 50% of Martial Law Jurnails for a population of maybe 2-5% total ! And then we hear this BS that Quota system is screwing Muhajirs over.. You’ve had TWO f*CKING tyrants over our heads and supported those tyrants through terrorist activities for 20 years. Is that not enough “representation” for ya?
It is like the White people in the South claiming the quota system is giving unfair advantage to the blacks! Well YEAH! that is the whole point of the Quota system to give some relief to those who are being kept backward through an institutionalized control system which just “happens” to favor one group (“muhajirs”) once they have gotten into key posts in the bureaucracy.
anyways.. I think I have probably not made much sense. .and parts of my rant sound racist, and I must apologize for it.. paeshgi.. I want to welcome everyone who came here losing everything as new pakistanis.. but please don’t hold it over our F*KING heads for 60 years like we owe you our goddamned lives because you somehow sacrificed more than we did.. enough guilt trips, and these are based on this stupid two nation theory which I think Idira gandhi was right..
and the biggest shock to this 2 nation theory happened when the same people who injected sindhi’s, bengalis, punjabi’s pathans and baluchi’s with the “Pakistan” is one nation BS for half a century (based solely on 2NT) started saying they want to have a separate country… well what THE F*EK was wrong with INDIA if you want to break us up again now? Did we need all this tamaasha for 60 years? Are Muslims in India really that much worse off?
So you see, it (2NT) was never about the Muslims of india, the people who wanted Pakistan were people who didn’t have the ba!!s to compete with hindu’s and they created this fake nation as their playground, treated it as a fake nation, played with the lives of it’s inhabitants (who IMO really could make a cohesive nation without this 2NT bullshit) and now are going to sink it in the Arabian sea.
this is why I call the 2NT a bogus and disingenuous theory and we have to suffer the consequences of this BS while people who got us into this predicament are now ready to bail once again and create a singapore style city state.. that’s what really bothers me and honestly I don’t know who to blame.. (I’m probably being harsh on most Muhajirs.. because it is some “muhajirs” who are behind it I put it in quote becasue I think they are just fasaadi tabaQaah they give a bad name to a majority of their ethnic group)
@Scorpion
I am from Punjab but I grew up in Karachi; went to school in Nazimabad, went to D.J. Science college, attended first two years in NED University and then transferred to UET Lahore and finished my Engineering degree from there. So, I know both cultures very well.
There are some genuine greviences in KHI that need to be addressed but you have to admit that MQM has given nothing to KHI. KHI used to be the real cosmopolitan city, a true city of lights until the early 80s. At that time all ethnic groups used to live together in harmony. There were some differences, true, but people from all ethnic groups used to live together fine and there were tolerence. Then MQM came into existance and KHI has been since burning. People are people, regardless of what ethnicity they belonged to. They generally do not like confrontation and want to live their lives in peace.
People must realize that KHI is not a property of any specific ethnic or political group. It was all those people who came to this great city from all over the country and worked hard to make it the economic hub of Pakistan. We need to develop tolerence for each other and try to resolve our issues through dialog. MQM, in its current form, can not give anything to the people of KHI that it so-called represents. It is yet to bee seen how truly the people of KHI still support MQM. We may never know it until the Pir of London is taken out for good.
Amir: Cowasjee is bascially a Mush supported… he has been endlessly using the “Least of the Worst” theories to describe Mush for the last three years. I think he is a bit of a nutter. And rather full of himself…
Tab’an Khamosh : Pakistan was never a bad idea. We screwed up as a nation but that is our collective fault. Which part of Pak do you associate with by the way? If it is Punjab, let’s be clear that Punjabis need to be more sensitive to people of other provinces….sorry but that is true.
Selig Harrison’s piece in the NYT is quite disturbing. I do not want to live for a day under an Indian flag.
sorry I mean Mush “supporter”
error: “supporter” and not supported….apologies (line 1)
@kingarthurII
I do not believe that Cowasjee is pro SOB (Mush).
@Tab’an Khamosh
Sorry, but your theory did not make any sense to me.
I would like to ask you folks that why in KHI, Sindhi language is part of the curriculum. No where else in any other province (please correct me if I am wrong) a provincial language is taught this way. This was done in Z A Bhutto’s tenure for reasons that only he knew.
@Amir Hameed: I expected as much.. I’ll try to explain it a bit later.. this was a total ramble.. Part of my trying to understand the issue maybe?
Jist is that people who put forth the theory are basically betraying it and it just rubs me the wrong way and I feel like the rest of us in Pakistan (I’m Punjabi Balochi mix btw from South Punjab near to Sindh) were taken for a ride with the whole 2 Nation Theory while the propagators just used it as a means to beat everyone over the head and when time came to become part of Pakistan, really, they are throwing up their hands and saying Oh nO, we’re outta here too!
I don’t know what percentage is it? 10% 2% of Muhajirs? Because I don’t know if the majority would think like that .. they were screwed like the rest of us … I guess it is just part of me that really believed in the concept and it is now hard to accept the doom that is facing us now.
@Tab’an Khamosh
From my experience with KHI, I can tell you that it is way less than 1% that want Jinnah Pur and it is those people who are trying to brainwash the others. But on the other hand, don’t the Balochs and Pashtoons have resentments? What was Bacha Khan struggling for and those who share his mentality are also not for Pakistan; are they? In interior Sindh, you will find a lot of high profile waderas who want Sind to be a separate entity. The point is that you will always find people with these believes but that does not mean that the entire ethnic group that they belong to share their believes.
@ admin
Purpose of my comments was to see if Adnan had said that. Since you deleted some of his comments (because they were repetead), could you delete my reply to him as well. My purpose was to challenge him.
The quotation I gave is rather confusing people and they think (God forbid) I am pro Mush Kutta. Only a Kutta can support Mush.
FYI Fom te NY times, Some people need to apoligize to the people of Pakistan especially MR 10
Injury From Blast Killed Bhutto, Report Says
Permalink
By ERIC SCHMITT and SALMAN MASOOD
Published: February 8, 2008
WASHINGTON — Investigators from Scotland Yard have concluded that Benazir Bhutto, the Pakistani opposition leader, died after hitting her head as she was tossed by the force of a suicide blast, not from an assassin’s bullet, officials who have been briefed on the inquiry said Thursday.
The findings support the Pakistani government’s explanation of Ms. Bhutto’s death in December, an account that had been greeted with disbelief by Ms. Bhutto’s supporters, other Pakistanis and medical experts.
Also on Thursday, the Pakistani government announced the arrest of two more suspects in connection with the assassination plot but gave few other details.
Thousands of Ms. Bhutto’s supporters gathered in her hometown in southern Pakistan, marking the end of a 40-day mourning period.
It is unclear how the Scotland Yard investigators reached such conclusive findings absent autopsy results or other potentially important evidence that was washed away by cleanup crews in the immediate aftermath of the blast, which also killed more than 20 other people.
The British inquiry also determined that a lone gunman, whose image was captured in numerous photographs at the scene, also caused the explosion, said the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the report has not been made public. Pakistani authorities originally said there were two assailants, based partly on photographs splashed across the front pages of the nation’s leading newspapers.
Scotland Yard investigators relayed their key findings to the government of President Pervez Musharraf on Thursday, according to the officials.
The investigators are expected to present a formal report to the Pakistani government on Friday, as well as to Ms. Bhutto’s widower, Asif Ali Zardari, now co-chairman of her Pakistan Peoples Party, and the couple’s 19-year-old son, Bilawal Bhutto Zardari, who is a student in London.
Scotland Yard said through a spokesman in London that it would have no comment on the Bhutto report until after it was made public. The British team is to present its report on Friday to the additional inspector general of police, Abdul Majid, who is leading the Pakistani investigation team.
Scotland Yard’s report will be presented just days before the country’s parliamentary elections on Feb. 18.
The findings are certain to be met with widespread skepticism, especially from Mrs. Bhutto’s supporters who blame the government for her death, in particular Mr. Musharraf and the leading politician of the party that backs him, Pervez Elahi. They also are unlikely to calm the turmoil in the country now that the 40 days of mourning has ended.
Mr. Zardari and his party’s supporters say they believe she was shot, as do people who were riding with Ms. Bhutto when she died on Dec. 27 after her vehicle came under attack as she left a political rally in Rawalpindi.
The doctors who treated Ms. Bhutto told a member of the hospital board, an eminent lawyer, Athar Minallah, that she had most likely been shot. Ms. Bhutto’s brazen killing set off days of violent protests and rioting across Pakistan. To allay public anger and to lend credibility to the investigations into the assassination plot, Mr. Musharraf invited a team of Scotland Yard forensic experts to assist Pakistani investigators in early January.
But the British investigators have faced several hurdles, including the compromise of the crime scene by cleanup crews and Mr. Zardari’s refusal to allow an examination of Ms. Bhutto’s body.
Mr. Musharraf has said that among the pieces of evidence potentially available to investigators was an X-ray taken by hospital technicians of Ms. Bhutto’s wounded skull. Investigators pored over hundreds of photographs taken at the scene, many by people with cellphone cameras.
The question of an autopsy became central to the circumstances of Ms. Bhutto’s death because of conflicting versions of the critical events put forward by the Pakistani government.
Ms. Bhutto was standing in an open-roofed vehicle at the time of the attack. On the night she was killed, an unidentified Interior Ministry spokesman was quoted by the official Pakistani news agency as saying that she had died of a “bullet wound in the neck by a suicide bomber.”
But the official account later released by Pakistan’s government said that she had not been shot, but had instead died as a result of a skull fracture caused when her head struck a lever on her vehicle’s sunroof as she ducked back into the vehicle during the attacks.
Even as the authorities in Islamabad prepared to receive the report, the government on Thursday announced the arrests of the two additional suspects in Ms. Bhutto’s death. Pakistani officials said that they were arrested Thursday morning in Rawalpindi, a city about seven miles from the capital that is home to the army’s headquarters. They gave few other details.
“All I can say is that two persons by the name of Husnain and Rafaqat were arrested today in the morning,” said Javed Iqbal Cheema, a retired brigadier who is the spokesman for the Interior Ministry, in a telephone interview Thursday evening.
The government officials described the arrests as an “important breakthrough,” but they did not say what role they believed the two arrested played in Ms. Bhutto’s death.
Mr. Cheema denied reports that one of the arrested men was the brother of the man said to have been the suicide bomber. Pakistani officials consider Baitullah Mehsud, the militant leader of the South Waziristan region, as one of the prime suspects in the Bhutto case.
Last month, the authorities arrested a teenager from North-West Frontier Province in connection with the case and later made an additional arrest. Both suspects are now under investigation, according to the Interior Ministry.
In Garhi Khuda Baksh in southern Sindh Province, where Ms. Bhutto is buried at her family mausoleum, caravans of supporters started gathering Thursday morning, according to the local news media. Prayer services were also held in other cities.
Eric Schmitt reported from Washington, and Salman Masood from Islamabad, Pakistan. Carlotta Gall contributed reporting from Islamabad.
Mods please put this on the front page despite people’ political affiliation, someo f these politicans true faces needs to be shown, I am starting to believe that nawaz sharif maybe the most decent of all these theives
<@Tab’an Khamosh
<Sorry, but your theory did not make any sense to me.
I< would like to ask you folks that why in KHI, Sindhi language is part of the <curriculum. No where else in any other province (please correct me if I am <wrong) a provincial language is taught this way. This was done in Z A Bhutto’s <tenure for reasons that only he knew.
Because Karachi is a city of Sindh and Sindhi is the language of sindhis. Is it so difficult for you to grasp this simple point? If the people of other provinces, especially Punjbis, have abandoned their mother tongue in favour of Urdu than it doesn’t mean that Sindhis should also follow the same path. And for your information it is only panjabi who has abandoned his mother tongue, Pashtuns and Balochs want ot have their own langauges to be declared as the official languages of their respective pronives.
regards
asfand
pronives should read provinces.
busybee on February 7th, 2008 5:42 pm
I admire MQM look the absconder Leader Altaf sitting in UK for the last 18 years and moving the people like puppets….. and look at the intelligence of the people who are dying for the idiot who is living in luxury. By the way what sacrifices has he given so far????
===============================================================
This mega clown, the undiputed leader of all parah likhas
, is sitting in london and crying his eyes out over the division of the laaaaand that was theee greater ehm the greatestt blunderrrrrrrrrrr in thee histireeeee of mankind 
@asfand1
It is absolutely hard for me to comprehend that just because KHI is part of Sindh, people need to learn to speak Sindhi. Tell me something, even after studying Sindhi for a few years, how many can actually understand and speak it? No one. Most could not even remember the Sindhi alphabets. Any BTW, people in Punjab did not abandon Punjabi in favor of Urdu, it makes no sense to make it part of the curriculum. And in other provinces, they do not teach their languages in schools. It is only Sindh where it happens.
@Amir Hameed:
I must vehemently disagree with you on this language issue. This is the crux of the identity crisis “Pakstan” is going throug and that is because of this unhealthy emphasis on Urdu in exclusion of all other cultural traits including language.
If we had not treated the existing cultures in pakistan as some losers (which they are NOT) we would not have this mess that we have today. If it makes sense to have FRENCH in France and German in Germany then it makes sense to have Punjabi in Punjub and Sindhi in Sindh. And just to make it clear these languages are even older and richer in linguist terms than French and German ..
We could have built a better, newer Urdu with a Unique “Pakistani” vocabulary, but we didn’t and that is precisely because the “Purity” of Urdu was tied closely to the “Purity & Superiority” of the ethnic group which has been ruling us all this time (no its not Punjabi’s)
My comment in response to your other comments is awaiting moderation in which I tried to address it a bit more..
optimist, you have a point.
the mahajirs in karachi dont particularly care for MQM or altaf hussain. But who else will provide protection from non urdu speakers?
just look at the violence after BB’s death, do you all blame that on MQM also? Or will you finally accept the fact that there is a urdu vs non-urdu war in karachi?
Optimist on February 7th, 2008 1:25 pm
WHY MQM IS POPULAR IN MOHAJIRS:
Lets call a spade a spade. People in Karachi were not welcomed by Sindhis. Both were to blame. Sindhis wanted to impose their language on Mohajirs and Mohajirs considered their language to be superior.
Mohajir people sacrificed for Pakistan.
=========================================================
Yes, lets call a spade a spade
What is so special about Urdu? Few hundred persian and arabic nouns that have been incorporated into this language make it special? BTW, if you dont know Baloch is the most persianised language among all pakistani lanaguages. And saheb you seem to be unaware of the fact that normally the immigrants, not the locals, need to adapt to a new culture and learn a new language.
I also want ot know what MOhajirs have sacrificed for Pakistan? Please no cock and bull kinda story only facts. Unlike east Punjabis who were brtally butchered and thrown out of their homes, the mohajirs were not victim of any violence and are characterized as economic migrants. The overwhelming majority of MOhajirs came to Pakistan in the 50s. Most of the mohairs have still relatives in India, and if I am not exaggerating almost all of them. It proves that they were not forced out of their homes and only migrated to Pakistan because of economic advanages.
Amir Hmeed sab people of Pashtunkhwa and Balochistan want their languages to be declared as provincial languages. Please visit these provinces and ask them yourself. And why sindhi should be taught in the shools of Karachi? Sab, the answer is very simple, because Karachi is a part of Sindh and Sindhi is the language of Sindhis, they still make up about 70% of the population of Sindh. I have nothing to add to this topic. Salam
are you serious? if it wasnt for mahajirs there would be no pakistan.
are you actually going to sit and verify what mahajir came before 1950? sounds like you have some personal issues with urdu speakers.
@Insider: Agreed, they played a part, but stop making it out like it was the frikking holocaust so we owe you a Palestine!
“sounds like you have some personal issues with urdu speakers.” Thanks for figuring it out, seems like you’re a preceptive lad! But I must correct though it wasn’t specifically pointed at me.. people have issues, me included, with SOME muhajir’s who seem to subscribe to the same kind of philosphy like the zionists in Palestine.
The inhabitants of this region where you migrated to DON”T OWE YOU SH!T ! You should be thankful you were given a place to live your lives with dignity amongst us as equals.. but that does NOT give you the right to LORD IT OVER US!
Differentiate, and I’m with you. Try to act like you’re somehow superior and I will show you how WRONG you are!
You mean I should be grateful to Mohajirs for making Pakistan in the region where we were already living and were more or less the master of our own fate. Read history Sir. Pakistan could have never come into being if Punjabis, Sindhis, Pahtuns and Bengalis have not voted in its favour. I have nothing against anyboy, what I’m saying is reality, but may be bitter for certain people
1 ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VTXMmld2jc
2 ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAPII9ogaNM
3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzoehNvRhjk
@Amir Hamid: (Strong Language!!!) I will try to be brief this time. (sorry misspoke.. it’s long)
>>From my experience with KHI, I can tell you that it is way less than 1% that want Jinnah Pur and it is those people who are trying to brainwash the others.
I tend to agree with this statement, but numbers and effectiveness are not the same thing. Look at Israel, Zionist Jews (and non Jews) and look how they have got their foot up the “ummah’s” arse .. It’s all about leverage (that the predators have) and psychology (that the herd has ). You figure out who is the predator and who is the herd (hint: communication organization ruthlessness is the advantage)
>>But on the other hand, don’t the Balochs and Pashtoons have resentments?
>>What was Bacha Khan struggling for and those who share his mentality are also not for Pakistan; are they?
Yes, and that is precisely my point. Sindhis, Balochis, Punjabis (Seriakis too? no-one talks of them either), Pakhtoons (and Bengalis) were given the BS about a “National Language”, non-ethnicity, and with this ideology and with the help of the complacent, complicit, and low self-esteem-having Punjabis they were BRUTALLY REPRESSED everytime they spoke of their economic or cultural rights.
But the issue is demographics… the non-urdu populations are just too big to control with the repressive tactics anymore, and now we have that baggageof 50 years of repression, and the last straw on the camel’s back is that the same people who promoted the “National Language Agenda” to the gullibles like me (who actually believed this shit for a long time) are now jumping ship and claiming their own ethnicity…
So this is the crux of the issue. This proves that it was a SHAM nationalism (pakistani that is) and they used it as a vehicle to promote the interests of a small group of Urdu Speakers at the disadvantage of others.
The proof is in the pudding. It is the nexus between the Army, Bureaucracy, J.I and now MQM (and the 1% as you say). Not counting the “silent majority” of Urdu speaking Muhajirs who are just along for the ride whoever wins?
>> In interior Sindh, you will find a lot of high profile waderas who want Sind to be a separate entity.
Exactly, and the point is that these Jageerdaar’s , Waderas etc should have been defeated! But that is not what our eminent “muhajir dominated” Bureaucracy and Military (The Defacto Establishment) did! During the time they were in power (in the most critical period of this “nation”) They were in CAHOOTS with these criminals! They retareded land reforms. They did everything then that has RUINED “Pakstan” now!
Now, they come to us and tell us the Wadera’s are fikking us? HELLO! We KNOW, You were right there handing the Military the KY as this was happening to Bengali’s and Sindhi’s . Now you have the NERVE to tell us the Wadera’s are scr3wing us??? Gee Thanks for the info, you’re about 30 years too late!
>> The point is that you will always find people with these believes but that does not mean that the entire ethnic group that they belong to share their believes.
Yes, I agree, but I am not talking about individuals, I’m talking about interest groups. And “Muhajirs” from day one even 10 years before I’d venture to say, have been an interest group. But they cloaked themselves in the most sacred Nazriya Pakistan and the Flag, and anyone who talked about even Minor economic/cultural rights was brutally suppressed by this group which was controlling the levers of power through various means, but mainly because they were the most educated (and are) group.
There are some very eminent Urdu Speakers who have fought the fight WITH The downtrodden of the land of the Indus River, Habib Jaalib martaa mar gayaa becharaa.. that’s not the point, but let us not confuse the actions of individuals with the actions of an interest group. The intellectuals may support the true cause of “Pakstan” but what about the majority of this group who were secretary’s, IG’s, Education Officers? Policy Makers? Colonels? Generals? Confidants to the Martial-Law admins???
Just imagine, Lahore had “SUI gas” before most of Baluchistan??? It was too hard to take it to Baluchi areas, but not hard enough to send the damn thing a thousand miles north? Again, don’t think “punjabi!” when I mention Lahore, think interest groups and their power struggles. One such struggle was the seemingly hap-hazard movement of the capital from Karachi to Lahore to Islamabad.
Did you notice that all these names are kept sanitary without any linkage to the land itself? “Pakistan”, “Islamabad” … almost as if chosen by a branding/marketing comittee like “Novartis”, “Yahoo” Meaningless empty vessels that you can fill with whatever ideological nonsense you want.
This is the kind of institutionalized discrimination that ruptured the facade that was “Pakstan” , and as soon as the interest group in power realized that the fakery wasn’t effective in keeping control of the beast, they jumped ship and started claiming the ethnic identity which had ALWAYS BEEN THERE, but which they carefully hid under the guise of “Pakistani-ness” .. this is why it was just code for the same thing.. the supremacy of this particular ethnic group.
My point, idealistic as it maybe, is that we are now in it together, so now YOU drink the medicine you’ve been giving us for 50 years, STFU! and become part of the land you migrated to instead of still living in some fake world you left behind half a century ago. There is NOTHING wrong with teaching sindhi to kids, these languages have been atrophied because of this artificial culture which HAD to grow around Urdu and which is whithering away as we speak because it doesn’t have roots in the land.. It will NEVER survive unless it takes the life giving nutrients from the land AS PART OF THE CULTURAL ECOSYSTEM of this land rather than acting like some kind of “superior” GRAFT from a “superior” species.
@Tab’an Khamosh
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If it makes sense to have FRENCH in France and German in Germany then it makes sense to have Punjabi in Punjub and Sindhi in Sindh.
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This is a wrong comparison. French and German are national languages, like Urdu. They are not taught as an “additional language” like Sindhi in Sindh. All subjects in those countries are taught in their national languages.
Again, no one has been able to answer my question so far; how many people are able to learn Sindhi in KHI to the extent to be able to speak it or even understand it. I studied it and I can hardly understand a few words of it.
Another question is that why Z A Bhutto was so gracious to have made it compulsary in Sindh and not in any other province? This was done in his tenure and whether there were any special interest groups behind it or not, I do know but it was not done equally all over the country.
I meant, “I do not know” instead of “I do know”
@Asfand1,
- I think that we need to first define what a Sindhi, Punjabi, Pashtoon or Baloch is. Should a person living in Punjab be regarded as Punjabi regardless of its ethnic background? I don’t think so. A Baloch will consider hinself/herself a Baloch regardless of whether he lived in Punjab for most of his/her life and same goes for people from other provinces. Just because the Urdu speaking people of KHI are living in Sindh does not make them Sindhis and should they be regarded as Sindhis? Whether you like it or not, these are the fifth nationality and should be treated the same way.
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Amir Hmeed sab people of Pashtunkhwa and Balochistan want their languages to be declared as provincial languages. Please visit these provinces and ask them yourself.
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- I bet they do because that is the language they speak on daily basis. But what has that got to do with forcefully imposing a language on a large population that is not its first language, just because they landed in a province that has its own language?
In countries like France and Germany, you can not get around without learning their language and that is why you have to learn it but this is not the case in KHI.
@Tab’an Khamosh
I am not sure how much interaction you have had with people of KHI in your life but I can tell you very honestly that I have not met anyone, when I was living in KHI, that had ever regretted coming to Pakistan, ever. We had neighbours who had relatives living in India and they would go visit them every few years but the had never complained that they would have been happier if they had stayed in India.
What you are describing is the Pir of London’s mentality and not the thinking style of a common Urdu speaking from KHI and we all know that Altaf is a traitor and should be given death penalty.
I did not want to bring it up in this forum or in any forum because I personalyl find it very offending but when I was in UET, Lahore, I had heard this phrase a few times from the local students from my class:
“Saanp or Sindhi Jahan bhee milay us ko maar do”. I heard the same phrase at the JFK airport a few years ago from a young lad who was speaking Punjabi. Again, these are minorities and do not represent the larger population.
I had mentioned it in one of the posts that till the early 80s, the pre-MQM era, most of the high profile government were either awarded to less qualified Sindhis or people from Punjab and this is absolutely true. If you belong to Punjab and you observe that most of these jobs are awarded to people from other provinces, especially when they are less qualified than you then you will most likely see things differently. Unless you experience something first hand, you will not be able to truely guage the situation.
This discussion can go on and on and there will always be disagreements which is okay as long as people discuss it with open mind. I may learn a few things from the others or vise versa.
@Amir Hameed:
I will be brief, and I promise this time! (90 sentence kaa va’adah!
)
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French and German are national languages…
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Bingo!
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… national languages, like Urdu.
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Not so. French and German (just like Pakistani Local identities) have a development history which has coincided with the development of the national identity (then again, who is “French” after all? Morroccan youths? The Jews? the Muslims from North africa too? .. so on and so forth and I digress)
French and German are closer in character to Punjabi and Sindhi Saraiki than they are to Urdu. Urdu is a graft (I LOOOVVVE URDU poetry by the way… another discussion perhaps) and was imposed by an arbitrary decision. Maybe the intentions were good ,but the result is a complete mess in terms of developing a “Pakstan” identity per se.
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I personalyl find it very offending but when I was in UET, Lahore, I had heard this phrase a few times from the local students from my class:
“Saanp or Sindhi Jahan bhee milay us ko maar do”.
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I don’t want to accuse you of misrepresentation (lying?) but I must say one thing, you were probably not the only one who attended UET, and tell me something, If a punjabi “aSbiyyat pasaNd” would choose to something so heinous like this, Do you expect me to believe he would say it in URDU? How stupid would that be now?
Or maybe it was the kind of people you were hanging out with. What session btw?
I have NEVER EVER heard any punjabi near me or around me or in Lahore EVER say this … I hung out with actual Lahroia’s and I speak multiple languages, and I speak better Urdu than most so called Urdu speaking ppl with proper intonation and I speak proper punjabi with proper intonation.
Your attribution of this to Punjabi’s has really hurt me, and it has given me some sense of what and where you’re coming from. But thanks for sharing. It was quite informational. I must have not hung out with the right kind of Punjabi’s despite living all my life there.
If you find some time, perhaps you should read my long ramble again, maybe there are some genuine grievances there that you might want to process. I don’t want a response, I just want you to think about it. If you have time that is. I don’t have anything against ppl from KHI.. I’m not even talking about them..
doesn’t really matter what I’m talking about. does it?
@Tab’an Khamosh
Like I had said it before writing it that I find it offending and I had no intention of hurting anyones feelings either and if I did then I appologize for that.
As for someone saying it urdu instead of Punjabi, if I had written it in Punjabi, would that have been more convicing to you? I was in 1984 session, Electrical Engineering and No, I did not hang out with the wrong crowd. My room mates were from Failsalabad, Kharian and Pindi and the one from Faisalabad was #2 position holder from Mettallurgy and they were all like my brothers. I lived in Mumtaz Hall and then in one of those newly built dorms.
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Your attribution of this to Punjabi’s has really hurt me, and it has given me some sense of what and where you’re coming from
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There is no need to feel hurt because you will find these types of people everywhere and they do not represent the majority. If people accuse the Urdu Speaking of trying to break the country or trying to conspire then how would it feel to that community? There was a long rant from one participant in one of the previous forums where he consistently labelled the Urdu Speaking as treacherous based on his own beliefs that have got nothing to do with the reality.
@Amir Hameed: Well it sounds more like what a MQM idiot would say rather than some Punjabi. I was in Lahore and in UET and PU and GCU at the same turn of time and I can attest to the fact that no such hatred existed.
Maybe u heard it in Karachi (SINDHU DESH) ?? just kidding
It kinda sucks Altaf is already trying to sound sindhi… like people are going to let him actually create a state… he’s dreaming along with his loser group.
I have been around UET campus and PU campus and Mumtaz Hall was occupied by Jamaatiya’s and they had a habit of firing tracers at night … Mumtaz Hall was heavily populated by Jamaatiya supporters (no surprise there) But the canteen there made the best fikking omelette from what I can remember.
Well some Muhajir’s _have_ engaged in treacherous behaviour and they are still doing it.. look at Altaf and his Tola? is this not treachery? In my book it is. Don’t worry too much about my feelings.. I’m over it already.
@Tab’an Khamosh
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Not so. French and German (just like Pakistani Local identities) have a development history which has coincided with the development of the national identity (then again, who is “French” after all? Morroccan youths? The Jews? the Muslims from North africa too? .. so on and so forth and I digress)
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This is really a different discussion and I do not find it related to the discussion as to why SIndhi should be forcefully taught to the Urdu speaking, especially, when no other province does it and also because it is useless as no one still understands or speak it.
@Amir Hameed: re: that comment being in Urdu rather than in Punjabi, it seemed more like a Freudian slip to me more than anything else nyuk! nyuk!
@Tab’an Khamosh
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Well some Muhajir’s _have_ engaged in treacherous behaviour and they are still doing it.. look at Altaf and his Tola? is this not treachery? In my book it is
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What Altaf and his tola are doing is absolutely treacherous and is against the federation and I am a firm believer of that but they do not represent the majority. Lets change the subject, because we both agree what the Pir of London’s is about.
Aaah, Mumtaz Hall canteen no doubt would make the best “aaloo anda” or “aaloo tamater”. I am not sure if it is still owned by Imtiaz or not. Anyways, Mumtaz Hall was Jamiat’s main markaz in UET. We had to leave that hostel and move to the new one because we were supporters of QSF at that time and the Jamatis knew that.
Amir Hameed:
We don’t need to define or redfine who is a Sindhi or pashtun, we all know it already. Mohajirs can never become Sindhi, they will always remian Indian immigrants.Even today Balochis and Pashtuns who have been living in Sindh for many centuries are not considered “pakka sindhi” by the “pakka” Sindhis, although those Balcohs and Pashtuns have integrated themselves well into the main Sindhi culture. If you are from Punjab than you should know how many Pashtuns have settled down in different parts of Punjab in the last few hundred years,especially in the Potohar region and in the southern PUnjab, they speak punjabi and have adopted the Punjabi culture but still they are considered as Pathans. Please correct me here if I’m wrong. And it would be not wrong to mention various Baloch tribes of PUnjab, they speak local languages, they have intermarried with local people but still considered as Baloch. Am I wrong Amin?
You say that Mohajirs are the fifth ethnicity then why are you ignoring Seraikis, Kashmiris, Hindkowans, Bohris, Potoharis, Chitralis, Hunzas, Makranis any many other ethnic minorities who have their own separate language, culture and history.
The only language that has been forcefully imposed on the people of Pakistan is Urdu. This is a fact and nobody can deny it.
Mohajirs have to learn Sindhi in the schools of Karachi becasue it is the language of the majority and the majority is demanding from the immigrants to learn their language. Sindhis don’t want to be treated like red indians in their own province. Sindhis have real grievances that need to be addressed.
I did my best to put across my opinion and hope you got my point.
Amir Hameed on February 8th, 2008 7:07 pm
You said “… I was in UET, Lahore, I had heard this phrase a few times from the local students from my class: Saanp or Sindhi Jahan bhee milay us ko maar do”. I heard the same phrase at the JFK airport a few years ago from a young lad who was speaking Punjabi. Again, these are minorities and do not represent the larger population”
This is typical a MQM style propoganda. Creating hate among different ethnic groups. But I can tell you that I heard this very statement from Urdu speaking. What did do wrong to you people. They offered you their land and jobs, and this what they get in response. I am not pleased to say such things but in East Pakistan, Bengalis used to say, get two Nafal Sawab by killing a Bihari.
@Imtiaz
“This is typical a MQM style propoganda. Creating hate among different ethnic groups”
The problem is that if you do not like someones comments you start lebelling them as someone that you hate, in this case MQM. Read my posts from the last several months and you will find out how much I support MQM.
“They offered you their land and jobs, and this what they get in response.”
Who offered lands to whom?
“I am not pleased to say such things but in East Pakistan, Bengalis used to say, get two Nafal Sawab by killing a Bihari.”
Didn’t I mention above that you will find these types of people everywhere but they do not represent the majority. I would like to ask you how much do you know about KHI and its culture? Have you ever lived there and for how long?
@Asfand1
“Mohajirs can never become Sindhi, they will always remian Indian immigrants.”
=> I agree and they should not be forced to become Sindhis.
“…although those Balcohs and Pashtuns have integrated themselves well into the main Sindhi culture…”
=> I do not dispute it. Two of my best friends from UET are Urdu Speaking, they both have been living in Punjab for a long time, with one born and raised there. They both do not speak Punjabi but their families have integrated well with the culture. So, to your point, Urdu Speaking do integrate with other cultures well. This makes this argument that they do not a moot point.
“The only language that has been forcefully imposed on the people of Pakistan is Urdu. This is a fact and nobody can deny it.”
- If what you are saying is true then of all the people, you should know how it feels to forcefully impose a language on someone.
“…Mohajirs have to learn Sindhi in the schools of Karachi becasue it is the language of the majority and the majority is demanding from the immigrants to learn their language….”
- This is not a convincing argument. You should look at KHI as a place that has a diverse culture and where Sindhis are not in Majority. This is kinda unique situation and the cookie-cutter approach can not be appplied here. Also, you need to ask why would someone want to learn a language; to get around, to understand others well, etc. In KHI, you do not have to learn Sindhi to get around. If KHI was a place where one could not get around without knowing the language then there would be no choice but to learn it.
“I did my best to put across my opinion and hope you got my point.”
- I respect your opinion but I do not agree with it. You may want to take it out in the open the greviences that Sindh has with the others.
- You still have not answered my previous question that a) even after studying Sindhi for a few years in schools, how many can speak or understand this language? b) why was it not made compulsary in other provinces and only Sindh?
Removal of defected Dictator and restoration of Judiciary as early as possible to 3rd Nov.07 position is the only possible way to prevent such things to happen again and again .Urdu speaking (mohajirs / Followers of Iltaf Hussain – MQM ) have the right to live peacefully with other sects (Pathans/NWFP as well as those from Blouchistan ,Punjabies,Sindhis and urdu speaking ) around them otherwise a time will come ,they will be buchered alongwith their children, for the acts they are doing to-day on behalf of Iltaf Hussain and Musharaf . Presently they are being supported by Govt; (Rangers /Police etc. )/ Dictator, being blamed of providing assistance to Altaf Hussain.
MQM policy is keep the fear circle around Muhajirs. Any one can observe that MQM
minded people always try to scare urdu speaking people from all others around them so that they stick with MQM.
For that they can go to any extend.Mr Altaf always cried against Punjab and Army and there are people those beleave that he is a establishment agent.
If you can look back to last eight years or so it is obvious that he is a establishment agent..
The key objectives which MQM was founded for or they were propagating were quta system, bringing back Pakistanis from Bangladesh , no body hear these things now from MQM.
Majority of urdu speaking people are fedup from this bhata mafia, “but there is no alternative” you always hear this. Realy why MQM is so afraid then ?
Alternative is to join fredom moment against Musharaf,Chdries and Altaf.
@Amir Hameed:
–
You still have not answered my previous question that a) even after studying Sindhi for a few years in schools, how many can speak or understand this language? b) why was it not made compulsary in other provinces and only Sindh?
–
I can venture to offer an opinion here though the question is not pointed directed at me.
Regarding a) I would say that language acquisition depends solely on practice. I took two semesters of French and from personal experience I can tell you that the more you practice and speak with other and immerse yourself, the more you’ll learn the language.
Now, if you are not interested, and don’t practice and don’t see any value in learning a language then you will not be able to speak it. I took “Arabic” in Pakistan during middle school and I can’t speak worth a damn… I just didn’t “get” the point of learning Arabic.
Also, it seems pretty retarded to teach kids Arabic.. I’d rather learn at least one local language than learn Arabic.. I mean .. some real IDIOTS make our policies.. uh-oh I don’t want to go back to who’s conrolling the “levers of power”
so, maybe you just didn’t put a whole lot of value into it.
re: b) I think the question you should be asking is, why the hell was Urdu imposed on all the Sindhis (and Bengalis ??)
And I’m glad you asked Asfand to see it from your point of view, perhaps you should return the favor?
cheers.
@Tab’an Khamosh
—
… a) I would say that language acquisition depends solely on practice …
—
I agree with you but the question is when/how would you practice? you would do that by talking to people (in that language) and that you would do when there is a need for that, that is, you had people around you that speak that language or you could not get around without talking in that language. Nothing of this sort applies to KHI. In your case, I can bet you that if after taking two semesters in French, if you had gone to France for a while, you would have practiced it but not in Pakistan.
—
took “Arabic” in Pakistan during middle school and I can’t speak worth a damn… I just didn’t “get” the point of learning Arabic.
—
I have the same opinion here. We were also taught Arabic from 6th to 8th grade but no one could speak it because of obvious reasons.
Regarding b) I want to know why this was done to Sindh only and not to the entire Pakistan and I am yet to get a convincing reply from anyone.
@amirkhan
You made some good points. I really believe that once the Pir of London is taken out, MQM’s top leadership will simply evaporate in the air. If we are able to restore the judiciary then it means the SOB’s (Mush) days will be over and that will mean no protection for Altaf. We will hopefully see a domino’s effect. I sincerely hope that PPP favors the restoration of judiciary but with Zardari now leading it, I do not see any hope of that. BB made a huge mistake when she did not agree on the restoration of the pre-Nov 3 judiciary, but she was simply promoting US agenda.
@Amir Hameed:
The fact that you couldn’t find _anyone_ in the middle of Sindh to practice speaking Sindhi with, is a sad reflection of the situation there (besides being comical in an ironic sort of way).
If I were dead set against French being “useless” and that I could never used it and I happened to be living in Versailles , and gave this as a reason to people of France.. (with a straight face) They would think I was kookoo!
Re: B. I think he implemented it because he could. And in my opinion he should have. Sindhi is a a very ancient culture and has its own history which I cann’t expound upon because I’m not a sindhi, but I can see how this is possible because the goddamned area has been inhabited before even Moses or Abraham were around… So .. there is deep rooted culture and psyche here which should be preserved.
Just because American ruffians thought that Native American culture wasn’t worth two shits.. that doesn’t mean it really wasn’t.
I thin ZAB did a good thing, and if someone doesn’t want to learn Sindhi, then its their loss (sadly yours too) . But you seem to think the world consists of “KHI” .. there is a world outside of KHI.. Even Altaf Bhayya is getting himself into a huff claiming to be “a sapoot” no less…
In any case, why is it such a big crime when you don’t seem to think that Shoving URdu down Bengalis and Sindhis is something not even worth commenting on? Well Bengalis showed us.
They literally sank this bullshit 2NT theor in the bay of bengal didn’t they.. Too bad people are underestimating some other “backward” minorities once again.. they will be surprised.. . perhaps not pleasantly (sad to say).
Anyhoo, I think I have had enough of this conversation. Perhaps a new topic will do me (at least) some good.
@Tab’an Khamosh,
I would also like to see a new topic at this time as well; perhaps the recent report from Scottland Yard on BB’s cause of death or the news that Zardari could become the next PM. But I would like to say a few words before I close this topic, at least with you.
You and I represent two different schools of thoughts but what I like is that even though we did not agree with each other most of time, we still listened and gave our opinions without getting personal, at least this is what I feel. I really believe that we as a nation need to develop tolerence for each other which we seriously lack and probably always lacked.
I am ready for the next topic.
Language is not a problem.Every body has a right to get education in their native language.In Canada lots of other languages are taught in school system.
Problem is a segregation system of education which is implemented in Pakistan.
You can find poor people speaking all the languages, and that is true for Elite class too, actually most of them knows English then their mother tongue.
I am not against English also.
Elites wants people to fight on language,sects, and on religion.So that they smoke cigars drink wine and talk in English about the problem of the people.
People of Pakistan are beautiful and wonderful and I include those who only want to communicate in English it is not their fault it is the system which need to change.
Often I hear this “jasa loog wasi hi huqmran”, the idea is to let people think that it is all there fault , its not the rulers its you people !
What a clever idea ” jis ki gardan dabaow aainkhain nikalta hai”
Amir Hameed,
You need to get rid of establishment, if you get rid of Kal Pir of london they will find
a new one may better looking too.
i am amazed kay why people of karchi vot MQM
@Amir Hameed: Must be the Lahori water from all those years we spent in Lahore
cheers,
Again Farooq Bhai have some tolerance, people are free to vote for someone, if we don’t agree with one party it doesn’t mean that party shouldn’t be allowed in election.
People are free to vote anyone. No one is saying that MQM should be banned. What people are saying is that MQM’s hands should be tied to stop violence. Only then we will see how many people vote MQM.
I met senior police officer from Karachi who is on scholarship in London. He told me that MQM wins 11 seats with clear majority and makes it 19 by threatening workers/voters of opposition parties. The majority is also very thin in those seats and with free election campaign and without harrassment, other parties can easily win those 8 seats.
MQM workers go to every door, take people to vote in the vans that they have snatched without payment and anyone who refuses to go to vote means that they will be dealt with later.
Optimist- Could you pls provide any strong proves which can justify your comments above: “MQM wins 11 seats with clear majority and makes it 19 by threatening workers/voters of opposition parties. ”
Also provide the name of senior police officer from Karachi.
what you think the candidate in rural areas who is the owner of 1000s of villages, how they win the election? could you please shade some light on it?
I am looking forward to your intellectual views.
Qadir
It is fear that is why people vote for MQM. Mr Altaf uses his all resources to make sure that Muajirs feel insecure from every body around them and portrait him self the savior.
People in Karachi are peace loving and normally get along very well. Since Muhajirs are in Minority MQM keep them believing that if MQM go out of power some thing worse will happen to them.
They are very well organized and they have their spies all around the community . There job is to keep spreading message of hate. There propaganda machine is very efficient.All this hapens systematically in community gatherings where all are hum zuban.
Urdu speaking people are very bright and peace loving people. Unfortunately Musharaf and Altaf does not reflect that, neither did the Hitler for German people.
New generation is fed up from this propaganda and you can see the change in the streets of Karachi. And this is very dangerous for MQM that is why they started systematic killing of ANP leaders. The aim is to start a hate violence between Muhajirs and Pathans.Once they succeed in that then This KALIA from London once again will advise people to sell their appliances and buy guns.
If there is justice there will be peace and no body would vote for these..
Well lets not focus to much the situation in Karachi, it is all the same in rest of the Pakistan.
Why people vote for Shakh Rashid, Pervaiz ,sujahat, you name it,
Lets see if you want to get elected and and you are one of the above what should you do here are some thoughts,
1.Divide people.
2.Deprive them from justice.
3.Keep strengthening briadri system.
4.make sure no body try to change they education system.
5. Make sure land reforms never happen.
An article worth reading from Cowasjee:
http://www.dawn.com/weekly/cowas/cowas.htm
Amirkhan:Sindhis are also peace loving people and they also feel themselves insecure in their own province.
Mohajirs (muslim league) separated Karachi from Sindh, shifted Sindh universtiy from Karachi to Hyderabad and Karachi university was established there that was supposed to be the pure mohajir university. Punjab university Lahore is full of the students from rural PUnjab and from other cities of Punjab go and see yourself how many students from interior Sindh are enrolled in Karachi university. Their great leader Liaqat Ali Khan once called the sindhi culture donkey cart culture, this is the mentality of these peace loving people. And what about the status of Sindhi language that si the oldest written language of all Pakistani languages.Urdu bole urdu pareh urdu likhe and become a complete bhayya. These mohajirs think that karachi is their property as if they had brought it from Lucknow in dowry.
The people of Sindh did a grave mistake by welcoming these ingrated into Sindh.
You still have not answered my previous question that a) even after studying Sindhi for a few years in schools, how many can speak or understand this language? b) why was it not made compulsary in other provinces and only Sindh?
_______________________________________________________________
After studying engilsh for 12 years in shools and colleges how many pakistanis can speak and write in it? Sindhi is taught to give non-sindhis an opportunity to become acquainted with Sindhi culture, language and its history.
And why should Punjabis and Pashtuns learn sindhi in their provinces? Pashtuns want Pashto to be declared national and provincial language.
He told me that MQM wins 11 seats with clear majority and makes it 19 by threatening workers/voters of opposition parties.
__________________________________________________________
MQM is ruling Sindh although in the last elections, in spite of all the rigging, it had managed to win only 40 seats, whereas PPP had won 67 seats. I am sure if a free and fair elections are held in Pakistan (and as long as Mush is the President it would never happen) then MQM can never form its government in Sindh.
Mohajir: You know Mohajirs sacrificed all they had for Pakistan.
Non-Mohajir: Oh really! What have they sacrificed?
Mohajir: What have they sacrificed? hmmm, errr, you see, ehm, actually.
asfend 1, sindhies are peace loving people there is no doubt about it in my mind.
Divide and rule that what it is.
My work as an engineer took me to interior sindh, to punjab and sarhad I found only one thing every where ordinary Pakistani people are very very Mehman nawaz .Unfortunately never been to Baluchistan but I have very good balaoch friends and I know for sure they are good people too.
problem is not the people it is the Establishment which want people to be divided on language, sects and so on.
It is true that in Karachi it is hard to find sindhi speaking people.In Karachi majority are Muhajirs with very significant number of punjabies
and paktoons.
And it is shame that even the goths (villages) of sindhi and baloch people from the suburbs of Karachi are disappearing.
So you are right Karachi is kind of separated from Sindh.
Who is the culprit here , how this ethnic Davide is helping establishment to maintain their grip on Pakistan.
That what it is divide and rule.
People of sindh do not make mistakes that what they are people with big hearts. After partition big influx of muhajirs settled in Karachi because it was the capital and port city and jobs were there.
Before I write any further let me clear I love all Pakistanis and believe that they are the most beautifull.
Let me talk little bit about quota system how this double edge sou rd kept the standards for sindhi students very low and this hunt them in all their carear what needed was a competitive education system , on the other end it was used by fascist Altaf to spread his message of hate.
There is no ruler or Urban quota system in Punjab. In interior sindh people are very poor they need schools, colleges and opportunities.
I think sindhi people should come out and move to cities where there are more opportunities for educations and jobs.
I had sindhi as a subject 8th level , I can understand most of it but I am not sure if I can read and write properly it is relay a shame.
But the question is if you really want to prosper in Pakistan , you don’t need any of the regional languages even urdu for that matter.
Official language is English actually people gage how literate you are by your proficiency in English.
Even the language is just to be made a dividing issue.
All the regional languages should be taught in respective regions and all universities should have a department for all the Pakistani languages.
Also English should be taught fro grade one.
@ Amirkhan
sorry to say but your thoughts are very scattered. you are advising the sindhi people to move to cities and grab the opportunities. i find much hatred in your style of writing. instead of asking the people to change the system you are advising them to move to city, if they move, will you offer them job or opportunities. Karachi is already very crowded, dont you think your wise ideas were never tried earlier?
i’m sorry to say but i do smell a rat here. talking about establishment, then Altaf, then quota system, inciting people to move to urban cities and grab opportunities, english as a first language. Man you are lost! if whole villagers move to cities then who is going to do the agriculture.
you accepted that the Karachities suffered from Quota system, majority of the bureaucracy in sindh are native sindhis, so what else you want now to implement. I think we should focus more on devising the ways for changing the system, rather then inciting people to fight against each other.
you further wrote that the education system for sindhi students is very low, who is to be blamed for? never in the history of sindh there was a non sindhi chief minister. What sindhi administration has not done for them which you want to do.
strive for the system change not the faces and please don’t spread hatred.
Scorpion,
Thanks for your inputs, and I apologize if I offended you I might be lost but I do not have any bad intentions. I only hate poverty, inequality, and Racism.
Problem is we are so divided that when we try to say some thing we get all these labels. This is just a talk I am just an ordinary Pakistani what I am saying is what I feel this my point of view and I respect others.
I believe that one should advise others the same thing which he chooses for him self.
System is obsolete it needs to change. I second that and I don’t understand why you think I am pro system.
What I was trying to say is that people should not wait for opportunities to come to their door steps but to go out and try to find there endeavors.
The best thing would be to provide educational and other opportunities to every part of the country so that people don’t have to suffer from the process of migration. This is not happening in last 60 years, that’s why we are having this conversation. I hope this happens soon but why should some body suffers in the mean time.
Karachi looks over crowded because of poor planning and obsolete infrastructure that need to be address too.
And if there are no opportunities in rural areas how you would stop people from moving to the cities by keep them in dark I guess from the facts, this is a feudal thinking, and you don’t have to be of this thinking if you really are a feudal but it can be a person who has some thing and want others to not have that.
I do not understand if you are from Karachi or from any other city for that matter why you are afraid from people moving to cities more people mean more business more customers more industrial workers and more tax it is good it may be bad for rural areas they will lose man power I am agree with that but not every body is working in the fields.
I was talking from the educational and employment purposes, if some body has a farm work why he would move to city to work in factory.
In west provinces, states and cities compete with each other to attract more people.
Establishment, Altaf or quta system are different topics, they are all embedded to one another I was addressing the same issue but from different angles.
Do not think on ethnical grounds and do not count the numbers that who is who and where all are the same this is a problem of have and have not. Just think for Pakistan and its people.
As for as English is concern it is a defato official language in Pakistan . Tell me if this is not correct. My point is establishment want people to fight on language issue but for them they kept English as defacto official language. All they want is to rule only and keep the masses illiterate. And the definition of illiteracy in Pakistan is zero proficiency in English in the eyes of Establishment. Try to pass CSS exam with out that you would know my friend. How can say don’t learn English till it is a difacto official language of pakistan
The reason I tried to write on this issue was to speak against the divide and rule policy of establishment. Who cares if chief minister speaks what language people problems are still there?.
Please try to think of solutions to our problems and keep all the suffering classes in one category.
I see the diversity of our society as our strength not weakness. I am not afraid of any ethnicity, If my children goes to school and get good education, I want the same for other children’s too. I do not want a Pakistan where my children’s ride in a car and they see poor children’s sealing newspapers or flowers on signals.
I want a Pakistan where if I go form one end to another I don’t see a divide in prosperity.
Because if I do I know one day no body would be able to save my children’s form having the same fate.
I am against the establishment and politicians but feel them part of the society and want a better future for their generations too. Because God forbid if we were not able to fix this mess who will suffer the most the one who has the most.
Dear Sir/Madam,
Dare to raise your voice for the inevitable socio-political change in Pakistan, to empower the Pakistani , the country belongs too.
Since the creation of Pakistan the Pakistani people are left at distant from the corridor of power so that the ruling elite can do what they wanted to do in favour of their interest, leaving the Pakistani people at the mercy of circumstances. As this policy is denial of right of Pakistani people to rule their country according to their aspiration and desire to built this country, which can provide equal opportunity to all without any discrimination for the establishment of welfare society. Only the society base on tolerance, equality and justice can be the real guarantee for the prosperous and strong Pakistan there for your intention is invited to the crucial movement which could be the point of distraction or disaster.
We have already lost the major part of Pakistan in 1971 simply to save the centralised sole power to exploit this country by the ruling elite they let the country break in part then allowing the masses to rule this country democratically. In the present circumstances we are again dragging our sovereignty at stack for the external interest in the name of national interest, instead of our interest i.e. the interest of Pakistani people at large.
The only way out of these crucial circumstances is the only way to empower the common Pakistani at grass route level i.e. the change of system. This change is inevitable for the prosperous Pakistan .As a citizen of this country I have try to provide an alternate socio-political system to empower the masses at grass route level for rapid industrial and agriculture development with transparency and accountability in the system. Along with basic guarantees for the creation of welfare state, where in public representative and institution shall be answerable and accountable to the masses.
Kindly see web site….www.idp.org.pk
Kindly acknowledge with your comments.
Ilyas khan Baloch
Organizer Islamic Democratic Party
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