“Taliban was a grassroots movement” ??? WTH has he been smoking? I like his idealism and all, but sometimes I wonder if he is a closet jamaati’a or something..
Very good Analysis. I am sure that u must agree me that he is the only sincere leader who has the potential and well to put the county on proper track towards being a prosperous and modern Islamic state.
No doubt, Imran Khan sounds to be a SINCERE MAN. It’s GOOD to speak, to an ENEMY of MUSLIMS, i.e; US Govt , FACE to FACE, & by LOOKING INTO THEIR EYES.
IT will NOT, certainly NOT ,MOVE the Yankees into any ACTION, because those GUYS will, ONLY & ONLY FOLLOW, the WRITTEN SCRIPT, given by the INVISIBLE GOVT, i.e; the C.I.A. ( READ the BOOK on this VERY TITLE, written by American themselves.)
If he Imran Khan can PROMISE & then OFFER, Bin Laden’s HEAD on SILVER PLATTER, to those JEWS, who are wearing the GARB of PRESENT DAY CRUSADERS, (& sitting in the White House, )or ACTING AS ONE, THEN
& ONLY,THEY WILL LISTEN & ACT, as they are, NOW, LISTENING to their ‘beloved’ , Mush.
I wonder y some people dont like Imran. He is the only leader who has given something 2 pakistan in real sense. He has given the only world class cancer hospital to pakistan. He has brough the only world cup 2 pakistan. He has done more work in Mianwali ( his constituency) than anyone else has done in any city of pakistan, considering the fact he was the opposition MNA. He has made 20 new schools there TWENTY! and all by not through qaumi khazana but through donations. He is working on a university project there and that university would b affiliated with Bradford Uni in UK ( cuz Imran is the Vc of Bradford uni ). He has made 50 killometers of roads in his area. I dont belong to his constituency nor I am with any political party but just letting U guys know wht v are missing by not having people like him as or leaders.
V pakistanis sometimes dont value people of this calibre. They are once in a century people. I dont want him 2 come in power at the moment btw cuz He is surely gona b killed by agencies or foreign hands and He is too lively not be alive.
Long Live Imran Khan ! U r the Proud son of our Nation and V r bloody proud of You.
I don’t know what your affiliation is, but any how your comment is a bit confusing and dissapointing
You must now that it is a fact that Taliban is a grassroot movement in big parts of Afghanistan and some border areas of Pakistan. Otherwise they would not be able to fight such a long war.
I don’t mind if you critisize IK, but please do it in a respectful way. He deserves that more than most politicians including those turn coats from both PML parties.
“Idealism”…..Does people from main stream parties like idealism? Do they have a vision for Pakistan or is it business as usual i.e benefit what you can now…right now. Loot and plunder without any hindrance. These PPP and PML people might be thinking “Who knows whether we will be back again” and if our party comes back it might other people who will have the “right” to loot and plunder. This is a sick mindset. We need to get out of it and have more idealism and a vision for Pakistan….just like IK/PTI. It is the ONLY party which is able to get Pakistan out of troubled waters!
Look, I like IK , but just don’t expect me to be a fanboy and gush over every statement he makes. I’m not going to get over a pissing match with the fanboys and there’s plenty for each party it seems..
What he said is factually incorrect. Taliban was NOT a grassroots organization, it was something created by the ISI etc and imposed upon Afghanistan from the outside. Coming from him it seems a bit odd, he’s a Pakhtoon and he should know better. It maybe NOW, but that is not the topic of discussion (listen to it again). He also glossed over the religious extremist connections.
See my older statements about IK. NO OFFENSE, but Problem _here_ seems to be that you ( not YOU, rhetorical ‘you’) first have to declare what party you are and then start a$$-kissing no matter what the leader said.. PPP,PML(x), PTI… everyone seems to, and wants others to, take sides and then start the mud slinging and a$$kissing alternatively.
well, I’m a freelancer, If I think Nawaz Sharif is doing something stupid (I can hear the gasps already) I’ll say so. If IK does something (that IN MY OPINION) is silly or factually incorrect, I’ll say so. I’m sorry it hurt your personal feelings.
Don’t take my statements personally, go back and look at my comments, I try not to make personal attacks on posters, except those who I think are trolls. I do reserve the right to critique our political leaders as they are public figures. My affiliation was PPP, then I’ve been looking at PTI, but now I’m not sure.. PML(N) ??? it could change tomorrow, and then the NS group will come after me…. so be it. I know one thing, I am for a system, not for persons, parties etc (at least not in the messed up form they exist in today)
We need to develop some courage to criticize our own leaders. It is this sheep like behaviour that has brought us to this point of destruction.
hi .. well her koi baat hi karta hai .. kam kab karey gey …. ya sari nasal bichari currpt hai .. ab dua kijye koi uthey or kom ki bhag dour sambhlaye is old peoples sey tou ab kuch nahi honay wala…
If you read my post then you would have known that I believe in freedom of expression. I don’t have the Mush perception about that i.e. if someone from the public doesn’t like a certain (vulgar) channel then he will ask us to shift to another TV channel and if someone criticizes him for all his wrong actions then he will close the TV channel (enlightened moderation). It doesn’t work like that. No need to discuss this topic further as I believe we have the same viewpoint i.e. you have the right to criticize any person, but I will request you to be fair. That will suit a person like you.
Taliban:
Taliban is most certainly an outcome of ISI/CIA manipulation, but you are also admitting that Taliban in fact IS a grassroots movement at the moment. Then what is all the fuss about insinuating that IK must have been “smoking”. That is unfair and I didn’t expect that from you, because you normally have a balanced viewpoint.
Freelancer:
It is your right to be what you want to, but I feel it must be a little bit strange to be a freelancer at the PPP/PML-N “companies”. I know that you are not fan of MQM, but still they sometimes have positive statements….only statements and they might also have some positive steps too, but in my opinion they are generally seen a terrorist outfit just like PML-Q. The same cannot be said about PML-N, but they are no saints either. One has to look at their repeated misconduct in the past and not only look at what they say. Statements are not enough. To say something is totally free of cost, but to do something good costs blood, sweat and tears. On this point none of the major players has delivered. Therefore I would never be a “freelancer” in PML-N or PPP businesses.
I appreciated your comment about Imran Khan, as well as your stance in the second post. I agree with both.
I will go a step further and say that Imran, while having done great service to the country in other capacities, is probably either a fundo without a beard, or a schezophrenic….i base this on many of his previous statements and behaviour. I could not watch this particular interview due to technical problems…
Which statements? He is clearly not a person who plays on both sides of the wicket just like MQM and is not either known for changing stance all the time just like some other major parties. On contrary he has been steadfast in some principled stands, for example reinstatement of judiciary and free and fair elections.
Can you please elaborate your comments?
“but sometimes I wonder if he is a closet jamaati’a or something.”.
There is nothing wrong being Jamaati. If 25% people of the country would turn into Jamaati, our country would be a much better place to live.
So far, I have not come across a single Jamaati, who is zaani, drink alcohol, have found to be involve in corruption or looted money. Majority of the Jamaatis are much better than the likes of Musharaf, Altaf, Pervez Elahi, Zardari, Sherpao,…
When it comes to politics, the educated class in Pakistan is the most ignorant and they have their stereotype believes. No wonder the whole country is becoming like a gutter hole ( mostly because of the educated people!!).
A have come across many Jamaatis who are OK if you don’t know them but when you really know them, they are: psychos (or really angrey), homos (not all of them), murderers, violent (they consider them above the law), and dictators by nature.
I would rather have someone who openly drinks alcohol and is a Zani, rather than a murderer and a violent psycho.
MQM and JI have many similarities. When MQM boycotts elections, people vote JI – not PPP or PML.
Murderer of Indian Muslims in Gujrat – Narindar Modi – is also religious and is considered corruption free. I would rather have a person who is involved in corruption than a mass killer like Altaf Hussain or Naridar Modi.
Excellently put…it’s usually a matter of scratching the surface….then you find the psychos, biggots and angry little self righteous men (and many other things besides).
“but sometimes I wonder if he is a closet jamaati’a or something.”
If there is an overlap of viewpoint towards a sensible and popular cause, it is not bad. It makes achievement of that cause easier and faster on national level.
In your opinion he seems to be closer to JI but has never been part of it. There are people who started their politics in JI and are now at key positions in PML(N) and PPP. Golden example is Javed Hashmi.
*** Imran is a diamond now a days because
- he is speaking for what 75% people of Pakistan want to have not what people sitting in capital hill are thinking of.
- he is a man who stance can never be change with a 5 minute of B**** or Negro**.
- he can’t be silent by any kinds of evil means
and this what makes a leader closer to his people and that ‘s his graph is shooting up so rapidly
I can bet he has to rise sooner or later. all the polls/surveys and indicators are evident of that fact.
@Poola
IK also has his shortcomings. After all he is also a human being, but he is still the leader of my choice because he is bold when needed, honest, intelligent, free from corruption and nepotism and has a VISION for Pakistan. The sooner he becomes PM of Pakistan the better for Pakistan. Then he will have the opportunity to serve Pakistan for a longer period, inshallah.
A man cannot be right all the times but the thing that matters is how hes carrying himself as a whole. And IK is doing pretty well as a whole & his struggle to change & shake the mindsets is commendable, he raised the political discussions in talk shows to entirely at a different level. Most of the guys taking part in discussions on internet & in Pakistani institutions are fired up by his optimism & hope, its another thing that they support him or not.
The talk shows in which IK particpated are realy very high rated in terms of the substance & you can easily browse through the archive even of this site to see the difference hes making & his contribution in raising the political awareness among youth.
Feb 18 s’elections under the current regime is just a continuation of status quo, But pundits are very much optimistic that Feb 18 will bring the Change & hope & bury the status quo forever, Lets see.
You know this man Imran Khan is real threat to all the old angreaz time political parasites from PPP, MQM …… down to PML-N jugarias.
Evidences:
** on one side Musharraf and his allies (MQM, PPP, PML-Q) say him a Kochwan of a tanga party and on the other side they are so afraid of him that they had to press half dead media to keep this man banned from all the news bulletin to political shows.
**Every educated sensible person you talk you will hear of support for this dangerous man.
**In every rally for restoration of judiciary to freedom of detained lawyers from Peshawar down to Karachi you will see young people holding flags of this dangerous man ‘s party flags.
**People like to listen him: 1) you have mentioned a beautiful the proof 2) I myself have left this website 2 months ago after its biased favor towards NS but today I had to get registered because I saw this dangerous man ‘s interview uploaded by admn so I found this website getting neutral.
@ saqibt:
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I appreciate your comment. Just one word changed the meaning of the whole paragraph I wrote. Instead of ‘freelancer’, I meant to say ‘free radical’ . In any case, if you look up the old article Pakistaniat.com had about “Who are you going to vote for”.. I think I said I was going to vote for Imran Khan (with some reservations). But his feigned innocence (at best) re: the origins of Taliban is disconcerting because he _should_ know better than he is letting on.
If he is ignorant, that is alarming, if he is being dis-ingenuous that is disgusting, and if he thinks (naively) that Amy Goodman doesn’t know the background of the Taleban, he is being utterly stupid. I have seen this tendency in him when I watched the documentary someone posted.. He was making things up as he was “translating” certain people… I don’t know what he thinks… the europeans don’t have access to translators? It just shows the naivete (and that’s why I’m prolly not going to vote PTI … as it is same old same old… good thing I can’t on account of being outside)
I agree with you that it is the blood, sweat and tears that should be the measure, but it sounds almost comical in Pakistani context. Whose blood ? whose sweat and whose tears? (Gharib/Gharib/Gharib) … This is why PTI may (_may_) be a step in the right direction, but so has been almost every other party, PPP? PML (come on they brought us Pakistan… I mean who doesn’t like Pakistan.. MiThaa MiThaa Pakistan …
The problem is that in Pakistan, everything sounds good on paper, but from the first minute, it starts to revolve around personalities and Pakistanis start to revolve around those personalities.. the great sacred and cosmic dance of jiyaalaa-pan.
So, after seeing many of these “saviours” come and go, and change shape from monsters to angels to monsters to saints… I hope you will forgive me for being a bit jaded and skeptical. I would say most of us need to be so we can check these people.
@optimist:
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I agree with your statements and analysis on Jamaa’tiyas, as I have had this experience myself. You have described “The TYPE” succinctly. My theory on MQM & JI is well known now, and I don’t want to rehash that discussion. Suffice it to say that they represent, generally, the same interest group. One uses religion and the other ethnicity as the vehicle to further the economic interests of the same ethnic group.
This is another reason which has started to weigh heavily on me re: Imran Khan’s flirtations with JI. Jamaa’t has NEVER (maybe I’m biased) done anything that has helped anyone other than the usurpers and enemies of Pakistan. They took part in every action which ended up screwing Pakistan ROYALLY!! Starting with Maududi’s OPPOSITION to the creation of Pakistan.
So, my basic rule of thumb is, “You see JI involved in something” You RUN THE F*CK AWAY IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION! ASAP!” But they are apparently supporting the Judiciary Movement (These people, who consistently and disgustingly prolonged military rules and took part in massacres of Bangla people) so I’ll be in the gun-sights of 5 other members commenting and taking me to task at this blasphemy.
“If he is ignorant, that is alarming, if he is being dis-ingenuous that is disgusting, and if he thinks (naively) that Amy Goodman doesn’t know the background of the Taleban, he is being utterly stupid.”
I take you and your Army Goodman genius and IK stupid for .01 millisecond just to ask my question:
you genius people understand nature of the problem to depth at the northern border then why it has not been solved so far after 8 years of your army Goodman ‘s effort and why your favorite Karazai on the other side of the border has started to secret talk (information is just emerging) to the chief of these people after having used force of world ‘s top class army against them.
@poola: Amy Goodman is the host of the program, the woman interviewing him.
And BTW, I agree with IK’s theses, just don’t expect me give him a Hand Job in public just cuz he’s imran khan and I agree with some of his policy positions.
The bottom line is that Imran Khan and what he says (overall) is very helpful towards the cause …….i.e. restoration of judiciary, democracy and demilitrization of this country………..there are only a handful of people who are not in Mushi’s detention and have some stature to get some national and international attention and Imran Khan is therefore helping to keep the main issues alive……whether Taliban are a grassroots movement or not…to my mind that is irrelevant for all practical purposes….Taliban are a reality in our circumstacnes and they have to be recokned with…….I for one beleive that they can’t be take care off by use of force……US/NATO have tried that for 6 years to no avail in Afghanistan……..I also predict that the moment US/NATO leave Taliban will be back ful force in Afghanistan and NWFP as well………..people will have to talk tto hem and negotiate…….there is no way around it……we cannot employ the Zionist philosophy of use of extreme force without compromise………..I don’t beleive Imran Khan is a closet fundoo….but I do think he can be very helpful in talking to and negotiating with the Taliban when the time comes…………………….is that a bad thing? I don’t think so…..!!
First these people(goverment) let worsen the situation by giving some people free hand & then bulldoze the entire community to satisfy the masterz by giving it a prticular color & get the underhand reward from their masterz.
Lal Masjid & adjoining madrassah, Sawat are very powerful examples of the Big Show if one dosen’t consider Wazirstan.
It still hurts me that we don’t have even a single negotiator in whole Pakistan who could avoid the Lal Masjid sabotage & killing of hunderds of innocent kids.
Its still hard for me to buy the idea that our special forces are so weak that they cannot do the operation to capture Ghazi Brothern without any damage. It was a pathetic show & was realy the beginning of a big show to start a series of khud-kush attacks in Pakistani territory.
I think there is a GOOD reason that Imran is seen with Mullahs. Its my theory but I think he is doing this to be safe from their dirty TONGUE. We remember Mullahs calling Jemima ‘pupil’ of Rushdie. Imran has kids from her. This is the only (not brave) way to clear himself from ‘Jewish conspiracy’ allegations.
He has built credibility now. I think if he leaves Mullahs now, even Mullahs give Fatwa against him on the base of religion (just like they cannot do that to Nawaz Sharif).
And we have to rise above the personalities and parties…..and stand for a system and values……….that is the need of the hour……………even if a so called kala choor is doing the right thing for the moment….I…. am with that kala choor…….and if that does mean supporting Zardari for the moment ……my answer is yes I will……….please also note that I have a lot of respect for PPP as an institution…….after the sad assination of Benazir…….Zardari has been able to keep the party togather so far……he has made the right moves and said the right things to ensure that………..and if the elections happen….PPP will go in the elections as one body and that is important………(post election is a different story)….I see PPP as a national institution that needs preserving….it is the only platform that is 1- National 2- Seculer and 3- Organized at grass roots level………..if this platform gets the right leader/s….it will be very effective is bringing about the change……but if it disintegrates (which I think was the establishment and army’s objectives) than we will not have any institution left to challange the status quo…….BB’s biggest contribution was to keep the PPP in tact over 28 years since ZAB’s death and so far Zardai has played that role of keeping the party togather despite the possibility of serious fragmentation……that is my rationale for supporting a so called kala choor…………I am delusional and amd dreaming now but just imagine if Aitzaz get ‘s the PPP platform in one piece……………!!
@Gul: Despite my reservations about IK’s religious tendencies, I think he is in general a force for good and he has started a process of talking about the issues and the system rather than people and dynasties etc.. We’ll see how PTI replaces IK if/when the time comes.
Re: Religiosity, and there is nothing wrong with being a Muslim or believing in your faith, but I just don’t want him to turn into a weirdo like what Optimist describes above.
Now, is this because he is politically naive or is it because he’s just not cut out to be a Politician especially in the Pakistani context?
I am of the opinion that Imran Khan will make a kick-ass social cause person (like Edhi) but I will be the first one to defend his right to enter politics… I mean.. we always complain about “professional/dynastic/family” politicians, and here we have this guy who is pretty much none of that.
But my biggest concern is that because deep down he is a decent person, he is being used by the crooks in JI … They are all over him.
@leo and others:
Also the comment I made is about precision, and how a world-class leader should be precise about statements s/he makes. When he made that comment about the _beginning_ of taleban he should have qualified it. His audience is not just Amy Goodman’s audience but also the policy makers and opinion makers in the thinktanks etc. in Washington DC. These are the people who are watching him as having potential for their own reasons no-doubt.. so he has to be credible and has to have a grasp of the issues.
It is perhaps that I consider him a viable leader in Pakistani politics that I expect so much from him. Perhaps I should just expect him be as incompetent as other Pakistani politicians and be done with it..
I must be very advanced if I am living in 20th century. To come into 21st century, Pakistanis need to first come out of 17th century and enter into the next one and then next and in the end lies 21st century. How can we jump from 17th to 21st?
@optimist: I didn’t see your comment, but your theory is quite intriquing!!, it is kind of odd that one never hears of “Imran Zani” BS anymore eh? I always thought it was MQM ppl doing this .. but then again why would _they_ do it.. now that I think about it…
more proof jamaatiya’s have no deen imaan as it were.
unfortunatley there is no black and white…………only shades of grey……..and that is what Imran Khan is too……will he make a good Prime Minister…..ever? My answer is NO………….he does not have what it takes to be a political lead………!! But can he be a king maker? Yes…..Can he lead a peoples movement if he put’s his head to it? Can be be voice of consious? Yes…..Can he be an excellent social worker? Yes……………..that is a lot to have in one individual…..and we should all respect him for that even if he has facts mixed up some time……!! But than who are we talking too….the West? Who showed us pictures of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? Did Tony Blair had his facts right? NO….Did he ever had any qualms about misrepresting to the media? NO….or Geroge Bush? Let’s not be too harsh and too demanding or our people who are doing the right things for us…..while most of us do our day jobs and log on here (on a limited english speaking forum) to went out our anger………..!!!
Let me withdraw my support to IK for 1 millisecond this time to ask you who ‘s leading you people to have a system you are interested in.
If it sounds attractive I along with others may join you to have our house in order. After all this is the ultimate goal not to make someone PM or hero.
i guess i am angry today………but we expect imran khan to have all his facts streight……while we are being scr@#ed by thorough and quite willful misrepresentations by the west and it’s media…including cnns and the bbcs of this world……..we expect our rag tag political parties to have democratic structures in place while in our history we have not had 3 successive full terms in office of any political party………….this stuff is not born in isolation……..these processes and principals evolve only and only if the people are able to excercise the right of self determination on a consistant basis…….not in a stop and go scenario where all the vested interest of the establishment…..the business comunitty and uncle sam are conspiring otherwise……….therefore………the nomination of a 19 year old to the charimanship of ppp….and the co-chairmanship of a so called kala choor…..have not been any problem sfor me….none whatsover……………while some of my more learned collegues endlessly debate the marits of an electoral process within the political parties……that would be good to have….but buddy……it is not happening at this stage…becasue it just cannot……………..and to expect otherwise is sheer lack of understanding at best or madness at worst……….the 19 year old as symbol and the kala choor by this ability to manage the crisis…have kept the ppp in one piece…..while our good friends….amin fahim……….is know to be dead drunk for half the day…….and aitzaz is mushi”s guest……….make up your mind….what do you want…!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For the record: I am leading myself. Anyone want to join behind me, I’m available. Don’t expect too much and don’t expect me to be sensible… Mushtri Hushyaar baash
But seriously, We ought to be active players in the political process. We are citizens, we have rights and we should demand from our leaders certain things like integrity, honesty, vision etc.
We are not going to get them all the time, agreed,but let us not give them our unconditional support. Even party workers should have some kind of distance. So I find the attitudes prevailing here odd … we should do policy based politics, and if our leaders knew beforehand we’ll desert them if they didn’t follow up on the promises, they would think twice..
Look at the shit PPP workers have gone through and how they have been treated by party leadership, turning it into a family handmaiden. It is serf-like slavis attitudes like this which cause these people to get away with stuff.
I for one, am for my own interest. If IK is the one who says he will do x,y, z, I will vote for him, if not, I’ll vote for someone else. My support is conditional, not aboslute or slavish. I am not a duckling that once impressed upon by one leader, I will follow him/her to the death.
Sorry, those times are past. Let us do issues politics, let us be selfish, in our own interests, and not let any leader, and I mean ANY leader take us for a ride again.
Unless we eliminate people like Choudhary Pervaiz, Shujhat, Molana Fazal ur Rehman, Aftab Sherpao, and other turncoats from PPP, N leaque etc we can’t expect a honet and courageous leaders like Imran to succeed in our system.
Remember the key word is system!!!! Why a person like Imran is still sitting out there with 1 seat. Once we clean our system the bloating and heartburn of our country will die down. We need to cure the constipation – if you know what i mean.
Taliban:
I don’t believe IK is ignorant. He is just showing some flexibility. There is no need to let the mad bull get a shot at you without any good/solid reason. There is no doubt that we have only one big gangster left in the world. Earlier we had two gangsters who some way or the other checked each other, but now the story is different and that’s why in some way we have to show flexibility on certain matters. That doesn’t mean that we have to lie flat on the ground just like our “bahadur” generals and certain politicians. These crooks surely have a lot to lose in the west since I suppose they have their assets there.
We can be flexible at the same time as we bring forward a principled stand on certain issues that are not to be negotiated. That is exactly what IK is trying to do and one must give him credit that when he represents Pakistan it is in a far more dignified manner than any of our leaders. He has personal charisma and above all he considers himself a true Pakistani without any hesitation. He is respected in almost every part of the world. He can make results for us on the international arena too. I am not a supporter of Taliban or Al-Qaeda but nor am I a supporter of what the Americans and the Pakistani forces are doing. This is NOT the way forward. We need to win the hearts and minds of common people. We can take any action against law breakers afterwards if there is any left. This process will certainly take time and cannot be achieved overnight. In other word IK is having a balanced view for the betterment of Pakistan! That is what is important.
Blood sweat and tears:
As it is now the poor man has paid it all, but if we want to have a real change everybody need to play their part. We have to stand up as a nation just like the Iranians. One can disagree with their convictions but one cannot ignore their stand as a sovereign nation which can stand up against international dictators like the Yankees. Dictators who hasn’t been able to have a shot at the Iranians, because they stand united (Though I feel Ahmedinejad is not that clever). And exactly words are not enough any longer. We need actions and we haven’t seen that from the big parties. They are still talking.
By the way IK only has my support as long as he stands for justice and follows the right path. They day I cannot trust his words then I will leave PTI. This is not a promise like the one given by Javed Hashmi in a road show (Capital talk), where he promised to leave PML-N if they participated in the elections. According to my knowledge he is still with Pakistan Movement for lote – N (PML-N).
sorry TK with your attitude you are set up for a lreal long and rather unpleasent ride……..the issue is not political leader…….political leader will evolve and we will get better ones only if the political process continues…..please go back to histroy….later 19th/early 20th century in america……..political leaders were practically mafios…..same thing in UK….there were lot of them with underworld connection and the trade union thugs in Germany………………….you expect the political parties and leader to decend from heaven…while the general…..screw the nation…again and again…….i support the democracy and the political process not becasue we will have the right leaders on day one……but because this is the only process that is able to clean up…….the mess over a reasonable period of time……………general after general…….will never get us there…..never eve……………….so let’s see the light and now………!!
@leo: I don’t expect leaders to descend from heaven and I have described the reasons behind _MY_ expectation from IK . If he rings your bell, by all means.
Agreed on the process vs. personalities and history thereof, the beginnings of any democracy are filled with people like what you describe ie; mafioso’s and shady characters. But look, Criticism is _part_ of the democratic process.. you and I and the rest of us are engaging in that very same process.
You have talked about process, but then you are saying let’s make an exception for this one time. Well, I’m of the opinion that the process should continue and a negative feedback loop is part of the process (KEY KEY KEY!) IK did a good job in the interview, so I have highlighted the exception in that interview.. and it has been blown out of propertion because some people believe _OUR_ leaders should be sacred cows.
Well, my friend, I eat cows for breakfast and sacred cows for lunch. Pokk? no thanks! I am the devil’s advocate.. the gadfly as it were.. the idea is to explore all dimensions of an issue if possible. Now, I appreciate people who are kind enough to give their opinions.. none of us are completely wrong, and none are completely right.
Democracy works like the brain works… all neurons chattering away, and in the end a beautiful human mind and intellect appears from all those opposing and pro messages that _SEEM_ to be random …
@ Tab’an Khamosh @Optimistic
Let me withdraw my support to IK for 1 millisecond this time to ask you who ’s leading you people to have a system you are interested in.
If it sounds attractive I along with others may join you to have our house in order. After all this is the ultimate goal not to make someone PM or hero.
please enlist your men/women!
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by Tab’an Khamosh:
For the record: I am leading myself. Anyone want to join behind me, I’m available. Don’t expect too much and don’t expect me to be sensible… Mushtri Hushyaar baash
But seriously, We ought to be active players in the political process. We are citizens, we have rights and we should demand from our leaders certain things like integrity, honesty, vision etc.
We are not going to get them all the time, agreed,but let us not give them our unconditional support. Even party workers should have some kind of distance. So I find the attitudes prevailing here odd … we should do policy based politics, and if our leaders knew beforehand we’ll desert them if they didn’t follow up on the promises, they would think twice..
Look at the shit PPP workers have gone through and how they have been treated by party leadership, turning it into a family handmaiden. It is serf-like slavis attitudes like this which cause these people to get away with stuff.
I for one, am for my own interest. If IK is the one who says he will do x,y, z, I will vote for him, if not, I’ll vote for someone else. My support is conditional, not aboslute or slavish. I am not a duckling that once impressed upon by one leader, I will follow him/her to the death.
Sorry, those times are past. Let us do issues politics, let us be selfish, in our own interests, and not let any leader, and I mean ANY leader take us for a ride again.
———————————————————————————————————-
For me, it s not a concrete stand.
Are you going contest elections from 200 NA seats if reasonably free and fair elections are going to happen in comming 6 months.
It s kind of position often PPP representatives take when they are asked what ‘s your stand regarding restoration of Judiciary and working relationship with Mush. They always say, “we would not open our cards and would cross the bridge when it s next”. And they made almost same statements before presidential election in Oct when they were asked whether you are going vote for Mush or not.
This the most bizzare statement of any political party on a very important issue I have ever heard. I mean this is issue they should be clear in their manifesto about because almost very pakistani is very much concerned about this.
“A have come across many Jamaatis who are OK if you don’t know them but when you really know them, they are: psychos (or really angrey), homos (not all of them), murderers, violent (they consider them above the law), and dictators by nature.”
@Optmist
Before I make my comments, let me make it clear that I am not a Jamaati nor I am a member of MQM.
In defense of Jamaat, yes there might be some psychos, homos and murderer in their party, but these kind people can be find in every single political party of Pakistan or anywhere in the world ( because this represents human behavior).
Why people have so high expectations from Jamaat, they are also normal human being. People expect Jamaat worker to act like an angel or super human beings, yes Jamaat have made some political blunders, so does every other political party of Pakistan. But the ratio of psychos, homos and murderers are less than other parties and their political blunders are far less than other parties.
We are more than willing to give chance to PPP, PMLN, MQM,..so many times but we are not willing to giving chance to Jamaat because they are not angel or super human being?
In regard to Imran Khan, he is still long way to go in Pakistan politics and may not get what he want but he could be a good opposition leader just like Nabzadah Nusrallah!!
“In regard to Imran Khan, he is still long way to go in Pakistan politics and may not get what he want but he could be a good opposition leader just like Nabzadah Nusrallah!!”
If he is not threat then you should have not wasted your time in typing above 50 words (250 letters).
The fact is he is real pain for most of the people whose (BATHA, LOWA (iron), money loundry) shops are under threat.
—I for one, am for my own interest. If IK is the one who says he will do x,y, z, I will vote for him, if not, I’ll vote for someone else–
Every leader says He will do x, y, z , will u vote for all of them ? Thats not the way to go about it. some people say it and some DO it . Some say they will boycott the elections but submit their papers and dont boycott, some boycott it after sbmitting their papers and some Dont submit the papers not to have dual standards. This is practicality.
V gota have a leader in our country and U just can,t have 2 good points from NS 1 from Zardari and P Elahi and 3 From IK and have a super-Human creation of Idealism. V gota accept someone with the whole package.
“If he is not threat then you should have not wasted your time in typing above 50 words (250 letters).
The fact is he is real pain for most of the people whose (BATHA, LOWA (iron), money loundry) shops are under threat.”
For your information, I live in US and if this would be my choice, he would be my first choice vote for the top post of Pakistan. But knowing the history of Pakistan politics and following Imran Khan’s carrier over the last 30 years, he is not going to get to the top post any time soon ( due to various reasons).
My advise to you and other people before making any accusations to others, if you come to any forums, please learn to understand other people’s point of view before start typing all non sense and childish material!!
“My advise to you and other people before making any accusations to others, if you come to any forums, please learn to understand other people’s point of view before start typing all non sense and childish material!!”
By the way, why don’t you want us believe you that
“he is not going to get to the top post any time soon ( due to various reasons).”
without hearing any logical reasons from you.
This is the attitude Mush and Altaf Bhai pratice most of the time that others should follow them blindly without asking or questioning anything.
It did bother me in the beginning when IK was siding with JI. My opinion about Jamatis is that they are hardliners and do not have tolerence for others view points at all. And this opinion did not just appear from thin air but is based on living in a hostle in UET for a few years which was controlled by the Jamatis.
IK may have his reasons for his inclination towards JI and only time will tell what they were. He may be playing politics with JI as well, who knows. But at least he has a clear stance but none of the other leaders do, the Sharifs, who could not even decide whether to participate in the elections or not; BB, who dies in vein while promoting US agenda instead of the people of his own party; the PML-Q, well that is not a party. Now Zardari is talking about the opportunity of working with the SOB(Mush).
This is the attitude Mush and Altaf Bhai pratice most of the time that others should follow them blindly without asking or questioning anything”
@Poola,
So far you have not showed any sensible behavior to me, I dont want to waste my time to show or prove any logical reasons for my statement.
My remarks that ” Imran would be my first choice for any top post in Pakistan” should be enough to read that I am not a closet fan of Muaharaf or Altaf or I am anti-Imran Khan. But again as I have said, you dont seems to be mature enough that I should be wasting my time to prove my point!!
asalam o alaikum, greeting to my fellow friends.Imran khan’s mind continue to serve him well. Looking at the current political situation in Pakistan any leman can easily conclude him to be the ideal and the most logical leader we can have for the time being. But Imran khan is planning to achieve Is not even theoretically or politically possible. If you look at examples around the world, in order to bring a change in a corrupt system is not by changing the leadership of a government but by bringing a change in the system itself first and then bringing a leader. Our most recent example in our generation is of the Iranian revolution where the Shah was driven out of the country by the people in order to bring a change in the system. Our most perfect example is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who’s method if we follow then only we can suceed.
Imran Khan is mixing Pakistan’s politics with the Pakistan cricket team. He think that just by changing the leadership and bring the rule of law will solve everything. Despite him being genuinely nice and sincere in his motives he seems quite naive and innocent in his ambitions.
Current Pakistan and his problems need a surgical operation ( not medical treatment with medications). Pakistan has been destroyed by the army along with the corrupt politicians and this country can ONLY be saved by the army with massive surgical operation, army is the only hope who can bring the system back on track with massive reforms, all we need one sincere and person at top, one sincere leader cannot solve Pakistan’s current problem.
@sic5770: Thanks for making me laugh uncontrollably at such an early hour.
Do you know how Iran was “saved” ?? it was saved by a popular revolution, and a lot of Jurnails were executed. You don’t see them jumping up to take over command anymore DO YOU??
Imran Khan said it best when he said(paraphrasing):
“”"”
Army is good at one thing, being told what to do, you tell them go capture that hill, and they capture that hill.. leave politics to politicians..
“”"”
He forgot one more thing: Our army is good at one more thing, looting their nation at gunpoint and amassing all this wealth in overseas accounts and properties.. No wonder they don’t want to piss off the US & UK.. First thing these countries would do is freeze all their properties worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Oh and surrendering to filthy Indians every time they get surrounded, (then changing textbooks to dupe 3rd graders into thinking we’ve been winning all these wars)
With due respect I don’t agree with you brother. Army can only destroy the system & can never bring in a change. U can’t have one surgical operation and everythings gona B ok. It has to be a slow painful process in the right direction starting from the grassroot levels. The education system and alleviation of Poverty are the prime things to begin the change.
Btw therez a contradiction in your statement by saying Army can’t solve the problems and then saying army only can do it. Later on saying one sincere leader at the top is needed and then saying one sincere leader can’t solve the problem. I would urge people to put in sensible comments worthy of reading.
Its not about a change in day or by a single guy, but the truth of the matter is that someone is doing it persistantly & constantly knocking & shaking the “status quo mindsets”, He might not be able to convert the whole audience into his supporters but will develop the same thinking in other parties as well, thats in itself a great achievement. That he single handedly raising our political parties to entirelly at a different level. The prime example is of PLMN who has enlisted Independent Judiciary as a top priority (is it not a change in the mindset?)
Look at a broad spectrum, don’t think what benefit he by himself is getting, but look at how hes benefitting the community from his sole efforts. The end beneficiary is people whether they are well served by sirectly by IK or by anyone else through his efforts & persuasion.
“Do you know how Iran was “saved” ?? it was saved by a popular revolution, and a lot of Jurnails were executed. You don’t see them jumping up to take over command anymore DO YOU??”
Please dont mix up Pakistan with Iran, our problems are deep rooted and more complex. Before I would go back to Pakistan’s problem, let me remind you that Iran is still a mess and country has not been saved with the revolution but in fact has been destroyed with the revolution. If you go to Iran, you will get the real picture.
Coming back to Pakistan, we have been living in totally different atomosphere than Iran, our country has been divided in different ethenicities, different culture, ..we care more about the languages, dresses and moderate vs fundamental Islam .
As I have said that Pakistan has been destroyed by army and they are the one who can fix this mess. If somebody think that we will have a leader, who can bring the revolution and fix the problems, they need to stop watching Indian movies!!
@sic5770: With all due respect, your grasp of the issues seems tenuous at best, so I will refrain from engaging in any further p!$$ing match with you; because on one hand the claim is that the issues are “complex” (no doubt) and the solution being offered is that Army should step in _because_ they are the ones responsible for the mess??? BRILLIANT!
Re: the advice vis-a-viz Indian movies: Physician, Heal Thyself!
Page 35 gives you a clearcut picture of this happening. 64 % of the people got information from TV & IK is banned on talk shows by the current regime. So his message is being blocked by force, btu its temporarily as the TV cannot afford the “dumb talk shows” too long.
When i talked about Iran I was quoting an example from history. Ofcourse In order to bring a change there will be opression, torture, killing…… without struggle, without raising your voice our efforts would be futile. My point is the process for bringing a change. The greatest example which could be regarded as the work of a true genius is of our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Why do we keep talking about democracy democracy democracy when we have our own system of islam? Why do we idealize western nations when our creator has given a system which we shud be striving for? If we see from our Prophet’s example he did’nt work in the corrupt system that was running there at that time , even though he was offered bribe, women and even power. Instead he worked by changing the minds of the people, by spreading the true message of Islam, all peacefully. He went to influencials and went to the general public, and had a defensive approach in the beginning. If someone beat you, you should take the beat, and not say anything to him. Instead tell he to come towards the true path of islam. In our societies perception of islam is now limited to rituals. Islam is about Namaz and how long your beard is. I am not here to critize Imran Khan. Mashallah the guy has a clean record and he is doing a lot to stand up against such a cruel system. My only advise Is if he follows the method of our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) he is Inshallah going to suceed.
You are more than welcome to stay away to discuss with me, I am here to express my views and I am not say I am the expert but I have followed enough Pakistan and world politics and have met with lot of famous politicians including Imran Kham ( recently), Altaf Hussain, Pir Pagara, Nawaz Sharif,…
As long as the point is not vulgar or immoral i think any point of view should be accepted. If I find any swearing taking place or my point of view deleted on this platform I would never visit this website. Instead of pointing fingers at someone’s previous mistakes we shud have a constructive approach and look for a solution.
I didn’t see any specific topic discussed in this forum.
@Sic5770
“I have followed enough Pakistan and world politics and have met with lot of famous politicians including Imran Kham ( recently), Altaf Hussain, Pir Pagara, Nawaz Sharif,…”
Who told you that this is a qualification in itself? This doesn’t say anything about your qualifications or knowledge. Please bear in mind that I am not saying anything negative about your opinion (not yet). I just want to make it clear that it is not a qualification just to have met famous politicians.
Imran Khan is the only Honest and Brave leader in Pakistan
I am also agaisnt his alliance with Jamaat but i know this will not become an electoral alliance..its just on one point agenda that is restoration of Judiciary
Many supporters of PTI have their concerns about JI but Imran told on many occassion that its the time to have common struggle to send Tyrant MUSH house and anyone who will support our point of view is welcome to join the struggle
Imran Khan is brave, honest and a great leadrer in Pakistan at the movement and his and PTI popularity graph has increased in last two years..there is no doubt about that
At this time no doubt Imran only looks sensible person who can represent our literate class but our state affairs has turned into jungle raj where uniform men are haunting civilians and poor people to obey their worst policies.Power mafia has become so strong that they even didnt bother to kill benzir who no doubt is part of this mafia.This mafia at this moment is not afraid of Imran as he is in bad books of US because of his clear cut pure Pakistani policy and secondly his number of followers are much lesser in rural areas where people still prefer to vote their pirs, walis or other feudal characters.So in one side we believe that Imran is giving us hope for democratic nation but again how to get rid of strong mafia who are controlling the country in all ways and these are curses of army rule for thirty years.
Thanks for posting this.. Excellent
IK is the only person we have who speak with a clear mind and knows what he is saying.
I hope whole nation listens to him because he is the only person who has done something for the nation: cricket, world cup, hospital, was the first one who talked about justice and free judiciary!!!
I agree with the general feeling here that Pak Army has destroyed this nation! Now can army save it or not? I wish they could, if they are able to, all praises for them. No personal grudges against them. However personally I do not think they want to, because it would mean cutting your own expenses and losing absolute power!
But lets’ hope someone can do this
“At this time no doubt Imran only looks sensible person who can represent our literate class but our state affairs has turned into jungle raj where uniform men are haunting civilians and poor people to obey their worst policies.Power mafia has become so strong that they even didnt bother to kill benzir who no doubt is part of this mafia”
This is why I have said that Pakistan’s current problem can ONLY be fixed by the army ( after all they are the one who have created this mess!!).
As the above poster have rightly pointed out that power mafia has become so strong, a single person cannot solve this problem. It seems like people are under the influence of Indian movies where hero seems to fix everything in 3 hours.
Imran Khan has been in political scene for almost 10 years and so far he has not win more than one seat, he does not have any base or foundation, he is not able to attract any main political figure along with him, what is his standing in NWFP, Baluchistan, interior Sindh, Karachi. For the last 10 years, he has just limited to Mianwali. He has not been able to gather more than 10,000 people on the street.
I am sorry to hurt people’s feelings here but he is not the person who can bring the revolution in Pakistan.
He is genuinely sincere in his cause, so do I and so many other people in the country, yes he has great personality, but so does so many other people in the country, yes he can speak fluent English, so does other people. He lack the charisma of a great leader, he does not have good interpersonal skills, he lack the political mind, him marrying with the Jews girl at the start of his political carrier, he has miscalculated Pakistan’s politics and these are his biggest weaknesses along with other issues.
@Admin: Maybe threaded comments would help? because most of these debates start out with genuine comments on the post itself but then degenerate into debates.. (for me that has it’s own charm, but this is your hard work, and we will abide by however you choose to deal with it)
After that if someone barges in and starts a non-related tableeghi comment you can move them to somewhere else..
You are still wrong. Never look at the numbers alone or personality alone. Look at his policy, vision, sincerity and what he does for the nation.
/Saqib
My friend, if you would go with the policies or vision, I have not come across with a single political party, who has bad policies or visionon paper. Even MQM has the best policies and vision on paper.
Imarn and his followers have to look at these important issues and have to be open minded to listen to critics instead of living in the delusional world.
Lets say for a millosecond v agree with you. Who would you suggest as our leader ? Am all eyes. Please dont say U dont support a particular person or party cuz that wud mean ur supporter of army running the country. Its a simple question . Who would You vote for ?
“Please dont say U dont support a particular person or party cuz that wud mean ur supporter of army running the country. Its a simple question . Who would You vote for ?”
First of all I would never support army or I have said anywhere that I am in a favor of army rule. I have clearly said that Pakistan’c current mess is created by the army and they are the only force who can clean this mess. I have my high doubts that Pakistan is going to be in the map of the world in next 10-15 years. But as I have been repeatedly saying ( and people are taking it in wrong context!!) since army is the only organized institute in Pakistan and they are the only one who can save the country. If army has not taken the responsibility, we are not going to survive.
I dont see any political leader who can save the country at the moment. We are not one nation anymore, we are divided in different ethnicities, languages, cultures, people dont care about the country anymore ( in fact we have never care about the country). Pakistanis are the biggest narcissistic people in the world. We care more for our egos than anything else, our political leaders are all narcissistic( including Imran Khan!!) and treat the people like shit.
I can bet that most of the Guys who present themselves as BIGGEST political analyst have never and will never VOTE even if an angel participated in elections.
I am sorry but reality is there is maximum 35% turn out in Pakistani elections…
fact is some people have addiction to write comments and they have nothing to do with political parties etc. I know from my own personal expereience many people who will talk hours and hours on politics and write blogs and essays on politics and when comes the election day, they sleep whole day
Its very easy to criticize and people made it their hobby
whenever, someone clearly declare his/her support for XYZ party, some hobby bloggers start criticize him and his political leadership
I suggest these guys to make their own political party with the name of BLOGGERS ALLIANCE and participate in the election
I do not wanna mention names of these people but i think anyone who would go through 3-4 threads can easily pin point them
He is a joke of the Pakistani Politics. He used to bitterly criticized Nawaz and Benazir for corruption and then joined hands with them. He praised Musharraf and then turned against him. He supported JI and Qazi and then got kicked out of University by the student wing of JI. I respect his skills as a cricketer but I believe he was better off focusing on the charity and social work.
If he really wanted to be a politician, he should have joined a leading political party like PPP or PML. Though, his dictatorial and arrogant nature may not have allowed him to stay for long with a single party.
Lets thing beyond the elections now . The main issues that looms these days are
1) How can v change our foreign policy which is both acceptable to America somehow and also guarantees a bloodless good governance in the troubled areas of the North west province according to the wishes of the natives. This is v v imp cuz whether u like it not but America is the most powerful nation of the world nowadays and ‘ Na iss say ziaada dosti achi hay na dushmani’ .
2) Restore a free judiciary and doing that is like a double edge sword. Ya Musharraf rahay ga ya free judiciary so best bet is to restore judiciary.( not only cuz its the most popular choice but also its the right thing)
3)Distrubution of Power and Governance to the Parliment ( which represents people ) and take the powers off the president afterall its not a presidential form of government, its a parlimentry form of govt.
4) Balochistan’s people are also not v happy with the establishment for obvious reasons so the next govt has to do some reforms which heals their wounds. This is also v imp to keep the Federation.
All this after free and fair elections which would be acceptable to the participants ( which looks highly unlikely )
Now look at these mentioned problems and tell me in which SINGLE one issue Mush hasn’t played his part?
you suddenly come and give your Fatwa on IK’s past and where is your past? you are quite a new entry here. As far your wish for IK to join main party like PPP or PML, which party do you support?
We know your views on IK now. and below is what you say about PPP.
Kheshgi views on6th of February on PPP
‘It is amazing that they are talking about PPP keeping the Federation together, did they forgot the role of Bhutto and PPP in the East Pakistan tragedy by refusing to accept the will of the majority?’
You are talking in Altaf Hussain’s language. Generals were responsible for breaking Pakistan. You have blamed a politician and in fact the whole PPP. Go hide behind NS now because most of MQM guys are too ashamed to accept that they support MQM. They start like this: ‘Imran is my hero but he should not be in politics’ etc etc.
Imran is a hero by any measurable standard, and definitely a sincere pakistani. The only problem is that he hasn’t been able to gain the support of the masses, and unfortunately, may never. He’s very similar to Ron Paul (www.ronpaul2008.com), who is respected by many, but still by any significant majority. I do not see Imran Khan playing an integral role in Pakistani politics for too long, but always being the voice of the masses.
he is fighting with establishement , with corrupt politicians with Mafias like MQM…ofcourse that is the difficult way but it is the right way…let the free and fair election happen and you will see the change which already happen in Pakistani middle class and they will vote for PTI.
people who criticize IK without any reason like: he is popular , But……
He is good , but………….
He is a voice of masses but……..
infact, these people wanna support corrupt system of Pakistan , as they do not have moral courage to say it clearly, so they make these non clear statements about IK and PTI
One thing that more or less everybody is agreeing that IKs efforts are commendable in lifting the spirits & hopes of the masses & voicing for them.
One factor that we mostly ignore when we compare PTI with PLMN & PPP is that the both of these parties were founded by the ones(NS&Bhutto) after serving in the office(government) for quite sometime. So politicaly they were well known before having their own parties, while IK was known as a player & social worker to general before launching PTI, so he has to struggle hard in order to change his image from a player-cum-social woker to a politician.
And its in itself a great achievement that hes been able to not to get attention but also carries the major role in bringing back the civil society & youth into the active politics.
Everybody is free to express their views (freedom of expression). If you write according to the rules i.e. no foul language etc. then there is no moderator editing in your posts. At least he will be ready to give you an explanation and NOT dig his head in the sand.
“excellent summary. Since 1970, Pakistan has not had a proper democracy – thank you to mr.zulfiqar ali bhutto, and the very lethal ISI.”
In favour of Altaf Hussain’s anti-federation letter:
“How is “aman aur baichara” anti-federation?? pkpolitics administration is getting more and more biased by the day”
His views on Sheikh Rashid:
“Sheikh Rasheed is a veteran of pakistani politics. He talks with honesty, and gives a very accurate image of exactly how doglaybaaz our politicians are.”
On Musharraf’s address:
“I am no musharraf supporter, but all the above comments apart from a few are pure musharraf bashing without basis!! Anger and emotions are clouding your judgment – give credit where it is due, and don’t unnecessarily keep criticizing! We are pakistanis, do we really want to be known as people who are hot headed and unintelligent?”
It is obvious that GuyFawkes is not NS lover (from above comments). He has blamed Bhutto as well. By saying that Pakistan is not ready for western democracy, it means his views are not in line with APDM including Imran Khan.
So which party is left? Only person he seems to agree is with Mush, MQM & Co.
He is the man who supported Gen. Musharraf in the referendum 2004. He is one of those guys who have done wonders to the cause of Musharraf & now he speaks about democracy, Crazy man.
HE IS NOT BOYCOTTING!!! He is running away from the embarrassment of again getting only 1 seat in the National Assembly…which I personally doubt, I think this time he will not even get a single seat and that’s the reason why he’s running away from the elections.
you seem to have more problem with him when he is not supporting Musharraf. Can we call you all those names what you are calling him for being a Mush Kutta lover??
I don’t mind if you critisize IK or anybody else, but please be factual and not emotional. Your ideas a very far fetched. IK is not afraid of defeat….that he has not been since his playing days. Always leading from the front!
Could you ever argue without attacking my character itself? Here I say something about Imran Khan, completely factual, and you don’t bother responding to it, but instead copy/paste something you’ve written on other walls. What is wrong with you? too much hate
Elections:
How is he a looser if he doesn’t take part in fraudelent elections?
BB´s murder:
Thats a damn lie. Is it so difficult to speak the truth? He has condemned the incident many times. He need not to show crocodile tears to anybody.
why dont he take part in elections???
Let me give u the answer. He isn’t taking part in elections because
1) All the political parties had decided they won’t take part in elections but lateron some of them did. it was just like all the parties said they wud protest infront of Bush wen he came 2 pakistan and all of them backed off and only Imran was left cuz he was true to his words.
2) Do you really think the elections are gona b free and fair ? Even ur PPP is saying if elections are rigged , v would do this and that. So if u r soo sure they r gona b rigged, y r u taking part in it.
3) If judiciary is not free, and the CJ of the country is under house arrest, who would you go to to get justice?
Now i ask you forgotten_sindhi, if you sisters ( not yours just generally speaking ) are being treated in such in-human way like that of Imran khan and your country-men are suffering cuz of ONE person, would you close ur eyes and ignore that and take part in his Election drama or would you struggle to get rid of him ?
I remember Qateel Shifai’s sher here — Dunya may Qateel os sa Munafiq nahee koi
Jo zulm to sehta hay Baghawat nahee karta
Optimist – No need to be upset about my thoughts on Imran. I have personally met individual who went from US to Lahore to volunteer time on his hospital project. He returned totally disgusted with Imran’s arrogant and dictatorial attitude. I know a cricketer who was in the Pakistan training camp with Imran and he recalled how abusive and disrespectful Imran was with the fellow players.
His attitude and past actions are not consistent with his political stance and thoughts. He definitely needs more time to mature and be a force in the national politics.
he is already a force in Pakistani Politics..a genuine force without any establishment help
I challenge MQM goons that just wait for sometime..as soon as Mush will be out and free and fair elections takes place..PTI and IK will get more votes than MQM.
we people in sindh dont want condolences in TV. Our culture and religion(may be not Imran’s) teaches us when someone dies – go and visit their family and grave!!! what do u guys do if someone you know dies … you hang around on streets and say to people “oh poor him/her – I feel sorry” or you go and visit their family. This ignorant man is traveling all over the world and dont have time or WILL to visit sindh once … WHY? dont we deserve that.
Elections:
Yes PPP knows that polls are going to be rigged big time but they are taking part in elections so that they can bring some voices of ordinary people in Parliament – rather than sitting in home and shouting for nothing. PPP knows that they have voices (unlike PTI) and no matter how rigged the elections are they will get some of them together. Imran knows his voices (supporters) are based only in internet or abroad, who can do nothing more tha putting some videos in youtube or holding some charts in front of embassies abroad. If you guys have guts than go on streets in pakistan and fight for justice in front of dogs (pakistan army and forces). The way PPP, PML(N) and lawyers do.
He is a looser – and you guys will also remain looser if you dont go in polls.
one more thing: you talked about our sisters … Imran’s sister were only beaten but OUR SISTER WAS KILLED (BB) and our 1000 of sisters are beaten everyday in support of BB and our country. But we are still taking part in election to fight back.
Can you explain me ” how would you struggle to get rid of them” by not taking part in elections?
There are many MQM Munafiq on this site (I am not referring to ordinary sincere voters of MQM). They cannot defend policies of Mush/MQM. They pretend to be something that they are not and try to change discussion.
How to recognise MQM Munafiq: They make statements like this:
1. I am Achakzai supporter but I think Altaf Hussain is right when he says ……..
(usual rubbish).
2. I supported IK in last elections but now I think he is ………. (another tactic)
3. I am Balochi/Sindhi and I have turned against Pakistan . I don’t know why Alftaf Hussain still support federation ………. (they want us to value MQM because of a fake Balochi/Sindhi)
4. I am just stating facts and you assume I support MQM, you are pathetic.
5. Everyone is corrupt. Nothing will happen. Stop wasting your time”
These people are MUNAFIQ and scared of our resolve against dictatorship. They are too ashamed to be supporters of MQM/Mush so they cannot openly admit. They just come here to distract us and hijack the discussion.
you have personally met someone who went to Shaukat Khanum? Guess what? I went there for three months with a Cancer patient. That patient sadly died after three months because she was at last stages but she had free treatment and equal service like everyone else. 92% of patients are treated for free. Those who can afford, pay some money and rich ones pay all (only 2% pay everything). The money earned is used to treat the poor. 100% free treatment was given to that poor girl (it was year 1999 and the girl was from Sheikhupura). Since that time I have done as much as I can for that hospital.
Ask God for forgiveness for blaming Imran for running ONLY cancer hospital in Pakistan. He is the only hope for poor cancer sufferers. Go and look at the suffering of the patients. I would pray that God doesn’t show any of your relatives that suffering (that I witnessed for three months).
Optimist – You seems very emotional about Imran, good for you. I never questioned the charity aspects of his work. In fact, in one of my previous postings I mentioned that he should have focused on the charity and social work instead of politics. He lost respect among many since he joined politics. Anyways, I don’t see him or his party becoming a major political force in Pakistan in the near term.
i don’t think Imran is in politics for short term benefits like Bhatta Khore Altaf Hussain. He is in for a long term movement. He will not use politics of Race to become popular. You seem to be at pains just because you ‘don’t see him or his party becoming a major political force in Pakistan in the near term’? If I were against him, I would be happy and won’t even comment on his videos if he was that insignificant.
You don’t know Imran. You guys are in a very big surprise even in Sindh. Mark my words.
Sindh isnt a part of India or an independant state, its a part of Pakistan. Don,t try 2 break the federation by having cheap sympathy from the people of sindh. I am a pathan but I am 1st of all proud to a Pakistani and then everything comes 2nd.
For ur second question that y Imran don,t come 2 sindh? Just keep ur knowledge upto date. He did try to come to sindh but He wasnt allowed to enter Sindh and was sent back from airport not just once but 2-3 times in the last 3 months. y ? Is Sindh not a part of Pakistan?
Regarding ur 3rd question that u know elections are being rigged but u still wana take part in it to fight back hun ? Fight back BB,s martyrdom ?? Come on man U were taking part in elections even before her incident took place. Who are u trying to fool!
A v famous PML-Q leader recently said that if PPP had boycotted the elections, all the parties would have done so and that would have been the end of Musharraf!
Before finishing, I would say that I had and I will always have the highest regard for BB and her father and brother and I know they have a huge followingall over the country. They talked about Federation and never talked about only sindh. So follow the footsteps of ur leaders and dont b a nationalist cuz by doing that U would be more like MQM wala rather than PPP supporter.
Do you honestly believe that he is a PPP supporter? would a PPP supporter insult NS like MQM/Q league and advise him to become president of PPP punjab.
Read what I have written about E-Munafiqeen. you will know what they want to say and what they really mean. These people just want to hijack the discussion. They especially attack forums where the word ‘Imran Khan’ is mentioned.
make one id with forgotten_balochi as well and visit all the forums where Imran Khan is mentioned. This is a good way to distract people from criticising Bhatta Mafia and Qatil Movement.
I am proud sindhi and PPP supporter. Just because I insulted Imran and Nawaz because they have insulted sindhis all the time doesn’t mean I am MUNAFIQ … and stop using this word.
I think you are the biggest munafiq on this site by not telling anyone which party you support and by copy pasting in same message about your brothers (MUNAFIQs) in all forums.
I am proud of being Pakistani but living in Pakistan I feel discriminated being sindhi … and this is true and you can argue me all the time but you can never understand it because WE suffer it not you sitting in PUNJAB.
Put up or shut. I request you to put forward comments or actions that have come from IK and which have insulted Sindhis. I don’t think that NS has made such comments recently that have insulted Sindhis. You people only this card left whenever you want to create confusion and hatred between Pakistanis.
You have a lot to say but unfortunately without any proper arguments. Only the ususal blame game
PPP has come into power thrice, could you please let us know how PPP elevated the living standards of Sindhis, schools, colleges, universities, businesses, etc.
Since you are from Sindh, so you are in a better shape to throw light on PPPs developmental programs for Sindh during their tenure.
Thanks
he is not a sindhi. the anger he has against Imran only one party has (altaf Don’s). I have met Sindhis and I know that they prefer IK over Don Edgwere.
The way you guarantee that I am not sindhi because I insulted your PEER sahab.
I can also guarantee that you are all punjabis because you yell when someone in Pakistan tells the truth and when someone in internet say something against IK and NS. Why do you guys from Punjab want to rule everyone – you guys cant even speak proper urdu??
Anyways, we people in real pakistan (other 3 provinces) dont like you – and thats my opinion.
And if you guys think I am MQM supporter – than do that … no one is forcing you to believe me. I also think that you are jahil paindoos with keyboard.
@forgotten_sindhi
Could you please share your views regarding this?
PPP has come into power thrice, could you please let us know how PPP elevated the living standards of Sindhis, schools, colleges, universities, businesses, etc.
Since you are from Sindh, so you are in a better shape to throw light on PPPs developmental programs for Sindh during their tenure.
Thanks
I ain’t from Panjab I am a pathan from NWFP but as I said earlier wen will v learn to B pakistani 1st. Please b proud of ur country. Noone snubbed u for talking against NS and IK or watever, Its just that U r promoting nationalism.
You can criticize whoever u please but that should be constructive, logical and to the point with no hint of contamination of Un-Patriotism.
V are all ONE from Karachi to Khyber, from Kashmir to Gawadar and tharparkar.
Sab Mil ke Kahoooo PAKISTAAAAAAAAAAAN ZINDABAAAAAAAAAD!
There is no one parallel to Imran khan. He is such a bold patriotic leader and there is no other leadership like Imran khan.
Sometimes I feel that we as nation might not deserve such a great leader like Imran khan who always believes in leading from front. People love Imran but most of the people are not ready to come out in streets and join these protests for a noble struggle.
I think there is need to encourage other sincere influential people to join the party and we must open our offices to all the major cities of Pakistan. PTI should not only be Imran khan in fact other leader must be encouraged to join the party. For all this there is need fund raising and PTI leadership should focus on these objectives. PTI official web site is
Before PTI election boycott I firmly believe that people will show their love with Imran khan and solidarity with PTI by casting their vote to PTI. I think Imran took the right decision and at least some sincere politician should stand with the judges who sacrifice their jobs for the sake of rule of law. But i do believe that if we all cast vote to that party which is talking about the restoration of judges PML (n) that ultimately support the same cause as Imran sacrificed. We must fail this king’s party and Musharraf, Altaf alliance. They are real hypocrites. Lastly i think if we did take the decision to contest election we can beat MQM in vote numbers. MQM have their only ethnic vote and they even don’t represent all Mahajirs. They can never become never be the main stream political party unless and until the take decision in interest of Pakistan. They have paid the heavy price of 12th of May incident in last year and Imran has exposed Altaf real image in front of people of Pakistan. Benazir, who is a woman, had more courage than Altaf that despite of so many threats; she came to Pakistan and gave her life in people gathering. It is unthinkable and there is no any other example in the world that a party rule a country for five years, the governor sindh is from his party, so many ministers belongs to their party (even the president chief of army staff at that time did support) him but the party leader Altaf don’t have courage to come in the country because of the fear of his life threat. Basically they are real hypocrites i want lot more to say about him but i have to leave here.
The history will always remember Imran khan struggle for the rule of law in this country. [b] [/b][u] [/u][i] [/i]
How do you see the MQM ‘s services for Sindh particularly during last 8 years?
While answering question, remember during last 8 years MQM and Sindh ‘s provincial govt. was all in all during last 8 years and had strong backing from center due to strongest allies of Musharraf B***d.
NICE…good program to be on to explain what the hell is going on in Pakistan.
“Taliban was a grassroots movement” ??? WTH has he been smoking? I like his idealism and all, but sometimes I wonder if he is a closet jamaati’a or something..
Very good Analysis. I am sure that u must agree me that he is the only sincere leader who has the potential and well to put the county on proper track towards being a prosperous and modern Islamic state.
Long live Imran Khan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
clear and visionary critique. i think nothing in the world can change ppp. if they had boycotted, fazlu also would have stopped hawai firing.
No doubt, Imran Khan sounds to be a SINCERE MAN. It’s GOOD to speak, to an ENEMY of MUSLIMS, i.e; US Govt , FACE to FACE, & by LOOKING INTO THEIR EYES.
IT will NOT, certainly NOT ,MOVE the Yankees into any ACTION, because those GUYS will, ONLY & ONLY FOLLOW, the WRITTEN SCRIPT, given by the INVISIBLE GOVT, i.e; the C.I.A. ( READ the BOOK on this VERY TITLE, written by American themselves.)
If he Imran Khan can PROMISE & then OFFER, Bin Laden’s HEAD on SILVER PLATTER, to those JEWS, who are wearing the GARB of PRESENT DAY CRUSADERS, (& sitting in the White House, )or ACTING AS ONE, THEN
& ONLY,THEY WILL LISTEN & ACT, as they are, NOW, LISTENING to their ‘beloved’ , Mush.
I wonder y some people dont like Imran. He is the only leader who has given something 2 pakistan in real sense. He has given the only world class cancer hospital to pakistan. He has brough the only world cup 2 pakistan. He has done more work in Mianwali ( his constituency) than anyone else has done in any city of pakistan, considering the fact he was the opposition MNA. He has made 20 new schools there TWENTY! and all by not through qaumi khazana but through donations. He is working on a university project there and that university would b affiliated with Bradford Uni in UK ( cuz Imran is the Vc of Bradford uni ). He has made 50 killometers of roads in his area. I dont belong to his constituency nor I am with any political party but just letting U guys know wht v are missing by not having people like him as or leaders.
V pakistanis sometimes dont value people of this calibre. They are once in a century people. I dont want him 2 come in power at the moment btw cuz He is surely gona b killed by agencies or foreign hands and He is too lively not be alive.
Long Live Imran Khan ! U r the Proud son of our Nation and V r bloody proud of You.
@Tab’an Khamosh
I don’t know what your affiliation is, but any how your comment is a bit confusing and dissapointing
You must now that it is a fact that Taliban is a grassroot movement in big parts of Afghanistan and some border areas of Pakistan. Otherwise they would not be able to fight such a long war.
I don’t mind if you critisize IK, but please do it in a respectful way. He deserves that more than most politicians including those turn coats from both PML parties.
/Saqib
“Idealism”…..Does people from main stream parties like idealism? Do they have a vision for Pakistan or is it business as usual i.e benefit what you can now…right now. Loot and plunder without any hindrance. These PPP and PML people might be thinking “Who knows whether we will be back again” and if our party comes back it might other people who will have the “right” to loot and plunder. This is a sick mindset. We need to get out of it and have more idealism and a vision for Pakistan….just like IK/PTI. It is the ONLY party which is able to get Pakistan out of troubled waters!
/Saqib
Look, I like IK , but just don’t expect me to be a fanboy and gush over every statement he makes. I’m not going to get over a pissing match with the fanboys and there’s plenty for each party it seems..
What he said is factually incorrect. Taliban was NOT a grassroots organization, it was something created by the ISI etc and imposed upon Afghanistan from the outside. Coming from him it seems a bit odd, he’s a Pakhtoon and he should know better. It maybe NOW, but that is not the topic of discussion (listen to it again). He also glossed over the religious extremist connections.
See my older statements about IK. NO OFFENSE, but Problem _here_ seems to be that you ( not YOU, rhetorical ‘you’) first have to declare what party you are and then start a$$-kissing no matter what the leader said.. PPP,PML(x), PTI… everyone seems to, and wants others to, take sides and then start the mud slinging and a$$kissing alternatively.
well, I’m a freelancer, If I think Nawaz Sharif is doing something stupid (I can hear the gasps already) I’ll say so. If IK does something (that IN MY OPINION) is silly or factually incorrect, I’ll say so. I’m sorry it hurt your personal feelings.
Don’t take my statements personally, go back and look at my comments, I try not to make personal attacks on posters, except those who I think are trolls. I do reserve the right to critique our political leaders as they are public figures. My affiliation was PPP, then I’ve been looking at PTI, but now I’m not sure.. PML(N) ??? it could change tomorrow, and then the NS group will come after me…. so be it. I know one thing, I am for a system, not for persons, parties etc (at least not in the messed up form they exist in today)
We need to develop some courage to criticize our own leaders. It is this sheep like behaviour that has brought us to this point of destruction.
hi .. well her koi baat hi karta hai .. kam kab karey gey …. ya sari nasal bichari currpt hai .. ab dua kijye koi uthey or kom ki bhag dour sambhlaye is old peoples sey tou ab kuch nahi honay wala…
If you read my post then you would have known that I believe in freedom of expression. I don’t have the Mush perception about that i.e. if someone from the public doesn’t like a certain (vulgar) channel then he will ask us to shift to another TV channel and if someone criticizes him for all his wrong actions then he will close the TV channel (enlightened moderation). It doesn’t work like that. No need to discuss this topic further as I believe we have the same viewpoint i.e. you have the right to criticize any person, but I will request you to be fair. That will suit a person like you.
Taliban:
Taliban is most certainly an outcome of ISI/CIA manipulation, but you are also admitting that Taliban in fact IS a grassroots movement at the moment. Then what is all the fuss about insinuating that IK must have been “smoking”. That is unfair and I didn’t expect that from you, because you normally have a balanced viewpoint.
Freelancer:
It is your right to be what you want to, but I feel it must be a little bit strange to be a freelancer at the PPP/PML-N “companies”. I know that you are not fan of MQM, but still they sometimes have positive statements….only statements and they might also have some positive steps too, but in my opinion they are generally seen a terrorist outfit just like PML-Q. The same cannot be said about PML-N, but they are no saints either. One has to look at their repeated misconduct in the past and not only look at what they say. Statements are not enough. To say something is totally free of cost, but to do something good costs blood, sweat and tears. On this point none of the major players has delivered. Therefore I would never be a “freelancer” in PML-N or PPP businesses.
/Saqib
Taban Khamosh
I appreciated your comment about Imran Khan, as well as your stance in the second post. I agree with both.
I will go a step further and say that Imran, while having done great service to the country in other capacities, is probably either a fundo without a beard, or a schezophrenic….i base this on many of his previous statements and behaviour. I could not watch this particular interview due to technical problems…
@Gul
Which statements? He is clearly not a person who plays on both sides of the wicket just like MQM and is not either known for changing stance all the time just like some other major parties. On contrary he has been steadfast in some principled stands, for example reinstatement of judiciary and free and fair elections.
Can you please elaborate your comments?
/Saqib
A great mind and a Great bold man.Imran Geo………….
He gave the whole situation in a nutshell.great Imran great.
This is called intellect.
Long live Imran Khan. I miss his comments with Hamid mir.
“but sometimes I wonder if he is a closet jamaati’a or something.”.
There is nothing wrong being Jamaati. If 25% people of the country would turn into Jamaati, our country would be a much better place to live.
So far, I have not come across a single Jamaati, who is zaani, drink alcohol, have found to be involve in corruption or looted money. Majority of the Jamaatis are much better than the likes of Musharaf, Altaf, Pervez Elahi, Zardari, Sherpao,…
When it comes to politics, the educated class in Pakistan is the most ignorant and they have their stereotype believes. No wonder the whole country is becoming like a gutter hole ( mostly because of the educated people!!).
@ sic5770
A have come across many Jamaatis who are OK if you don’t know them but when you really know them, they are: psychos (or really angrey), homos (not all of them), murderers, violent (they consider them above the law), and dictators by nature.
I would rather have someone who openly drinks alcohol and is a Zani, rather than a murderer and a violent psycho.
MQM and JI have many similarities. When MQM boycotts elections, people vote JI – not PPP or PML.
Murderer of Indian Muslims in Gujrat – Narindar Modi – is also religious and is considered corruption free. I would rather have a person who is involved in corruption than a mass killer like Altaf Hussain or Naridar Modi.
Imran Khan is a great and sincere person. I may not agree with some of his views (especially on Taliban), overall he is better than many others.
Optimist
Excellently put…it’s usually a matter of scratching the surface….then you find the psychos, biggots and angry little self righteous men (and many other things besides).
“but sometimes I wonder if he is a closet jamaati’a or something.”
If there is an overlap of viewpoint towards a sensible and popular cause, it is not bad. It makes achievement of that cause easier and faster on national level.
In your opinion he seems to be closer to JI but has never been part of it. There are people who started their politics in JI and are now at key positions in PML(N) and PPP. Golden example is Javed Hashmi.
*** Imran is a diamond now a days because
- he is speaking for what 75% people of Pakistan want to have not what people sitting in capital hill are thinking of.
- he is a man who stance can never be change with a 5 minute of B**** or Negro**.
- he can’t be silent by any kinds of evil means
and this what makes a leader closer to his people and that ‘s his graph is shooting up so rapidly
I can bet he has to rise sooner or later. all the polls/surveys and indicators are evident of that fact.
@Poola
IK also has his shortcomings. After all he is also a human being, but he is still the leader of my choice because he is bold when needed, honest, intelligent, free from corruption and nepotism and has a VISION for Pakistan. The sooner he becomes PM of Pakistan the better for Pakistan. Then he will have the opportunity to serve Pakistan for a longer period, inshallah.
/Saqib
A man cannot be right all the times but the thing that matters is how hes carrying himself as a whole. And IK is doing pretty well as a whole & his struggle to change & shake the mindsets is commendable, he raised the political discussions in talk shows to entirely at a different level. Most of the guys taking part in discussions on internet & in Pakistani institutions are fired up by his optimism & hope, its another thing that they support him or not.
The talk shows in which IK particpated are realy very high rated in terms of the substance & you can easily browse through the archive even of this site to see the difference hes making & his contribution in raising the political awareness among youth.
Feb 18 s’elections under the current regime is just a continuation of status quo, But pundits are very much optimistic that Feb 18 will bring the Change & hope & bury the status quo forever, Lets see.
@Asif
Agreed you 99.9999%.
You know this man Imran Khan is real threat to all the old angreaz time political parasites from PPP, MQM …… down to PML-N jugarias.
Evidences:
** on one side Musharraf and his allies (MQM, PPP, PML-Q) say him a Kochwan of a tanga party and on the other side they are so afraid of him that they had to press half dead media to keep this man banned from all the news bulletin to political shows.
**Every educated sensible person you talk you will hear of support for this dangerous man.
**In every rally for restoration of judiciary to freedom of detained lawyers from Peshawar down to Karachi you will see young people holding flags of this dangerous man ‘s party flags.
**People like to listen him: 1) you have mentioned a beautiful the proof 2) I myself have left this website 2 months ago after its biased favor towards NS but today I had to get registered because I saw this dangerous man ‘s interview uploaded by admn so I found this website getting neutral.
@ saqibt:
========
I appreciate your comment. Just one word changed the meaning of the whole paragraph I wrote. Instead of ‘freelancer’, I meant to say ‘free radical’ . In any case, if you look up the old article Pakistaniat.com had about “Who are you going to vote for”.. I think I said I was going to vote for Imran Khan (with some reservations). But his feigned innocence (at best) re: the origins of Taliban is disconcerting because he _should_ know better than he is letting on.
If he is ignorant, that is alarming, if he is being dis-ingenuous that is disgusting, and if he thinks (naively) that Amy Goodman doesn’t know the background of the Taleban, he is being utterly stupid. I have seen this tendency in him when I watched the documentary someone posted.. He was making things up as he was “translating” certain people… I don’t know what he thinks… the europeans don’t have access to translators? It just shows the naivete (and that’s why I’m prolly not going to vote PTI … as it is same old same old… good thing I can’t on account of being outside)
I agree with you that it is the blood, sweat and tears that should be the measure, but it sounds almost comical in Pakistani context. Whose blood ? whose sweat and whose tears? (Gharib/Gharib/Gharib) … This is why PTI may (_may_) be a step in the right direction, but so has been almost every other party, PPP? PML (come on they brought us Pakistan… I mean who doesn’t like Pakistan.. MiThaa MiThaa Pakistan
…
The problem is that in Pakistan, everything sounds good on paper, but from the first minute, it starts to revolve around personalities and Pakistanis start to revolve around those personalities.. the great sacred and cosmic dance of jiyaalaa-pan.
So, after seeing many of these “saviours” come and go, and change shape from monsters to angels to monsters to saints… I hope you will forgive me for being a bit jaded and skeptical. I would say most of us need to be so we can check these people.
@optimist:
========
I agree with your statements and analysis on Jamaa’tiyas, as I have had this experience myself. You have described “The TYPE” succinctly. My theory on MQM & JI is well known now, and I don’t want to rehash that discussion. Suffice it to say that they represent, generally, the same interest group. One uses religion and the other ethnicity as the vehicle to further the economic interests of the same ethnic group.
This is another reason which has started to weigh heavily on me re: Imran Khan’s flirtations with JI. Jamaa’t has NEVER (maybe I’m biased) done anything that has helped anyone other than the usurpers and enemies of Pakistan. They took part in every action which ended up screwing Pakistan ROYALLY!! Starting with Maududi’s OPPOSITION to the creation of Pakistan.
So, my basic rule of thumb is, “You see JI involved in something” You RUN THE F*CK AWAY IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION! ASAP!” But they are apparently supporting the Judiciary Movement (These people, who consistently and disgustingly prolonged military rules and took part in massacres of Bangla people) so I’ll be in the gun-sights of 5 other members commenting and taking me to task at this blasphemy.
Oh well…
@Tab’an Khamosh
“If he is ignorant, that is alarming, if he is being dis-ingenuous that is disgusting, and if he thinks (naively) that Amy Goodman doesn’t know the background of the Taleban, he is being utterly stupid.”
I take you and your Army Goodman genius and IK stupid for .01 millisecond just to ask my question:
you genius people understand nature of the problem to depth at the northern border then why it has not been solved so far after 8 years of your army Goodman ‘s effort and why your favorite Karazai on the other side of the border has started to secret talk (information is just emerging) to the chief of these people after having used force of world ‘s top class army against them.
@poola: Amy Goodman is the host of the program, the woman interviewing him.
And BTW, I agree with IK’s theses, just don’t expect me give him a Hand Job in public just cuz he’s imran khan and I agree with some of his policy positions.
The bottom line is that Imran Khan and what he says (overall) is very helpful towards the cause …….i.e. restoration of judiciary, democracy and demilitrization of this country………..there are only a handful of people who are not in Mushi’s detention and have some stature to get some national and international attention and Imran Khan is therefore helping to keep the main issues alive……whether Taliban are a grassroots movement or not…to my mind that is irrelevant for all practical purposes….Taliban are a reality in our circumstacnes and they have to be recokned with…….I for one beleive that they can’t be take care off by use of force……US/NATO have tried that for 6 years to no avail in Afghanistan……..I also predict that the moment US/NATO leave Taliban will be back ful force in Afghanistan and NWFP as well………..people will have to talk tto hem and negotiate…….there is no way around it……we cannot employ the Zionist philosophy of use of extreme force without compromise………..I don’t beleive Imran Khan is a closet fundoo….but I do think he can be very helpful in talking to and negotiating with the Taliban when the time comes…………………….is that a bad thing? I don’t think so…..!!
First these people(goverment) let worsen the situation by giving some people free hand & then bulldoze the entire community to satisfy the masterz by giving it a prticular color & get the underhand reward from their masterz.
Lal Masjid & adjoining madrassah, Sawat are very powerful examples of the Big Show if one dosen’t consider Wazirstan.
It still hurts me that we don’t have even a single negotiator in whole Pakistan who could avoid the Lal Masjid sabotage & killing of hunderds of innocent kids.
Its still hard for me to buy the idea that our special forces are so weak that they cannot do the operation to capture Ghazi Brothern without any damage. It was a pathetic show & was realy the beginning of a big show to start a series of khud-kush attacks in Pakistani territory.
@ Tab’an Khamosh
I think there is a GOOD reason that Imran is seen with Mullahs. Its my theory but I think he is doing this to be safe from their dirty TONGUE. We remember Mullahs calling Jemima ‘pupil’ of Rushdie. Imran has kids from her. This is the only (not brave) way to clear himself from ‘Jewish conspiracy’ allegations.
He has built credibility now. I think if he leaves Mullahs now, even Mullahs give Fatwa against him on the base of religion (just like they cannot do that to Nawaz Sharif).
@leo
there are 25% short-sighted people who still support Mush & co. They see all the measures he took since 9th March valid.
And that 25% is being reflected here even on this forum otherwise there is broad consensus on what Imran Khan is speaking.
@Optimist
It ‘s 21st century man and you still living in 20th.
Grow up man.
It would make this discussion more interesting if you talk sense.
And we have to rise above the personalities and parties…..and stand for a system and values……….that is the need of the hour……………even if a so called kala choor is doing the right thing for the moment….I…. am with that kala choor…….and if that does mean supporting Zardari for the moment ……my answer is yes I will……….please also note that I have a lot of respect for PPP as an institution…….after the sad assination of Benazir…….Zardari has been able to keep the party togather so far……he has made the right moves and said the right things to ensure that………..and if the elections happen….PPP will go in the elections as one body and that is important………(post election is a different story)….I see PPP as a national institution that needs preserving….it is the only platform that is 1- National 2- Seculer and 3- Organized at grass roots level………..if this platform gets the right leader/s….it will be very effective is bringing about the change……but if it disintegrates (which I think was the establishment and army’s objectives) than we will not have any institution left to challange the status quo…….BB’s biggest contribution was to keep the PPP in tact over 28 years since ZAB’s death and so far Zardai has played that role of keeping the party togather despite the possibility of serious fragmentation……that is my rationale for supporting a so called kala choor…………I am delusional and amd dreaming now but just imagine if Aitzaz get ‘s the PPP platform in one piece……………!!
@Gul: Despite my reservations about IK’s religious tendencies, I think he is in general a force for good and he has started a process of talking about the issues and the system rather than people and dynasties etc.. We’ll see how PTI replaces IK if/when the time comes.
Re: Religiosity, and there is nothing wrong with being a Muslim or believing in your faith, but I just don’t want him to turn into a weirdo like what Optimist describes above.
Now, is this because he is politically naive or is it because he’s just not cut out to be a Politician especially in the Pakistani context?
I am of the opinion that Imran Khan will make a kick-ass social cause person (like Edhi) but I will be the first one to defend his right to enter politics… I mean.. we always complain about “professional/dynastic/family” politicians, and here we have this guy who is pretty much none of that.
But my biggest concern is that because deep down he is a decent person, he is being used by the crooks in JI … They are all over him.
@leo and others:
Also the comment I made is about precision, and how a world-class leader should be precise about statements s/he makes. When he made that comment about the _beginning_ of taleban he should have qualified it. His audience is not just Amy Goodman’s audience but also the policy makers and opinion makers in the thinktanks etc. in Washington DC. These are the people who are watching him as having potential for their own reasons no-doubt.. so he has to be credible and has to have a grasp of the issues.
It is perhaps that I consider him a viable leader in Pakistani politics that I expect so much from him. Perhaps I should just expect him be as incompetent as other Pakistani politicians and be done with it..
@ poola
I must be very advanced if I am living in 20th century. To come into 21st century, Pakistanis need to first come out of 17th century and enter into the next one and then next and in the end lies 21st century. How can we jump from 17th to 21st?
@optimist: I didn’t see your comment, but your theory is quite intriquing!!, it is kind of odd that one never hears of “Imran Zani” BS anymore eh? I always thought it was MQM ppl doing this .. but then again why would _they_ do it.. now that I think about it…
more proof jamaatiya’s have no deen imaan as it were.
@TK
unfortunatley there is no black and white…………only shades of grey……..and that is what Imran Khan is too……will he make a good Prime Minister…..ever? My answer is NO………….he does not have what it takes to be a political lead………!! But can he be a king maker? Yes…..Can he lead a peoples movement if he put’s his head to it? Can be be voice of consious? Yes…..Can he be an excellent social worker? Yes……………..that is a lot to have in one individual…..and we should all respect him for that even if he has facts mixed up some time……!! But than who are we talking too….the West? Who showed us pictures of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? Did Tony Blair had his facts right? NO….Did he ever had any qualms about misrepresting to the media? NO….or Geroge Bush? Let’s not be too harsh and too demanding or our people who are doing the right things for us…..while most of us do our day jobs and log on here (on a limited english speaking forum) to went out our anger………..!!!
@ Tab’an Khamosh @Optimistic
Let me withdraw my support to IK for 1 millisecond this time to ask you who ‘s leading you people to have a system you are interested in.
If it sounds attractive I along with others may join you to have our house in order. After all this is the ultimate goal not to make someone PM or hero.
please enlist your men/women!
i guess i am angry today………but we expect imran khan to have all his facts streight……while we are being scr@#ed by thorough and quite willful misrepresentations by the west and it’s media…including cnns and the bbcs of this world……..we expect our rag tag political parties to have democratic structures in place while in our history we have not had 3 successive full terms in office of any political party………….this stuff is not born in isolation……..these processes and principals evolve only and only if the people are able to excercise the right of self determination on a consistant basis…….not in a stop and go scenario where all the vested interest of the establishment…..the business comunitty and uncle sam are conspiring otherwise……….therefore………the nomination of a 19 year old to the charimanship of ppp….and the co-chairmanship of a so called kala choor…..have not been any problem sfor me….none whatsover……………while some of my more learned collegues endlessly debate the marits of an electoral process within the political parties……that would be good to have….but buddy……it is not happening at this stage…becasue it just cannot……………..and to expect otherwise is sheer lack of understanding at best or madness at worst……….the 19 year old as symbol and the kala choor by this ability to manage the crisis…have kept the ppp in one piece…..while our good friends….amin fahim……….is know to be dead drunk for half the day…….and aitzaz is mushi”s guest……….make up your mind….what do you want…!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
tab’an khamosh is a misnomer for you dear, plz chaaaaaange…lol
For the record: I am leading myself. Anyone want to join behind me, I’m available. Don’t expect too much and don’t expect me to be sensible… Mushtri Hushyaar baash
But seriously, We ought to be active players in the political process. We are citizens, we have rights and we should demand from our leaders certain things like integrity, honesty, vision etc.
We are not going to get them all the time, agreed,but let us not give them our unconditional support. Even party workers should have some kind of distance. So I find the attitudes prevailing here odd … we should do policy based politics, and if our leaders knew beforehand we’ll desert them if they didn’t follow up on the promises, they would think twice..
Look at the shit PPP workers have gone through and how they have been treated by party leadership, turning it into a family handmaiden. It is serf-like slavis attitudes like this which cause these people to get away with stuff.
I for one, am for my own interest. If IK is the one who says he will do x,y, z, I will vote for him, if not, I’ll vote for someone else. My support is conditional, not aboslute or slavish. I am not a duckling that once impressed upon by one leader, I will follow him/her to the death.
Sorry, those times are past. Let us do issues politics, let us be selfish, in our own interests, and not let any leader, and I mean ANY leader take us for a ride again.
Unless we eliminate people like Choudhary Pervaiz, Shujhat, Molana Fazal ur Rehman, Aftab Sherpao, and other turncoats from PPP, N leaque etc we can’t expect a honet and courageous leaders like Imran to succeed in our system.
Remember the key word is system!!!! Why a person like Imran is still sitting out there with 1 seat. Once we clean our system the bloating and heartburn of our country will die down. We need to cure the constipation – if you know what i mean.
@Ta’ban Khamosh
Taliban:
I don’t believe IK is ignorant. He is just showing some flexibility. There is no need to let the mad bull get a shot at you without any good/solid reason. There is no doubt that we have only one big gangster left in the world. Earlier we had two gangsters who some way or the other checked each other, but now the story is different and that’s why in some way we have to show flexibility on certain matters. That doesn’t mean that we have to lie flat on the ground just like our “bahadur” generals and certain politicians. These crooks surely have a lot to lose in the west since I suppose they have their assets there.
We can be flexible at the same time as we bring forward a principled stand on certain issues that are not to be negotiated. That is exactly what IK is trying to do and one must give him credit that when he represents Pakistan it is in a far more dignified manner than any of our leaders. He has personal charisma and above all he considers himself a true Pakistani without any hesitation. He is respected in almost every part of the world. He can make results for us on the international arena too. I am not a supporter of Taliban or Al-Qaeda but nor am I a supporter of what the Americans and the Pakistani forces are doing. This is NOT the way forward. We need to win the hearts and minds of common people. We can take any action against law breakers afterwards if there is any left. This process will certainly take time and cannot be achieved overnight. In other word IK is having a balanced view for the betterment of Pakistan! That is what is important.
Blood sweat and tears:
As it is now the poor man has paid it all, but if we want to have a real change everybody need to play their part. We have to stand up as a nation just like the Iranians. One can disagree with their convictions but one cannot ignore their stand as a sovereign nation which can stand up against international dictators like the Yankees. Dictators who hasn’t been able to have a shot at the Iranians, because they stand united (Though I feel Ahmedinejad is not that clever). And exactly words are not enough any longer. We need actions and we haven’t seen that from the big parties. They are still talking.
By the way IK only has my support as long as he stands for justice and follows the right path. They day I cannot trust his words then I will leave PTI. This is not a promise like the one given by Javed Hashmi in a road show (Capital talk), where he promised to leave PML-N if they participated in the elections. According to my knowledge he is still with Pakistan Movement for lote – N (PML-N).
/Saqib
sorry TK with your attitude you are set up for a lreal long and rather unpleasent ride……..the issue is not political leader…….political leader will evolve and we will get better ones only if the political process continues…..please go back to histroy….later 19th/early 20th century in america……..political leaders were practically mafios…..same thing in UK….there were lot of them with underworld connection and the trade union thugs in Germany………………….you expect the political parties and leader to decend from heaven…while the general…..screw the nation…again and again…….i support the democracy and the political process not becasue we will have the right leaders on day one……but because this is the only process that is able to clean up…….the mess over a reasonable period of time……………general after general…….will never get us there…..never eve……………….so let’s see the light and now………!!
@leo: I don’t expect leaders to descend from heaven and I have described the reasons behind _MY_ expectation from IK . If he rings your bell, by all means.
Agreed on the process vs. personalities and history thereof, the beginnings of any democracy are filled with people like what you describe ie; mafioso’s and shady characters. But look, Criticism is _part_ of the democratic process.. you and I and the rest of us are engaging in that very same process.
You have talked about process, but then you are saying let’s make an exception for this one time. Well, I’m of the opinion that the process should continue and a negative feedback loop is part of the process (KEY KEY KEY!) IK did a good job in the interview, so I have highlighted the exception in that interview.. and it has been blown out of propertion because some people believe _OUR_ leaders should be sacred cows.
Well, my friend, I eat cows for breakfast and sacred cows for lunch. Pokk? no thanks! I am the devil’s advocate.. the gadfly as it were.. the idea is to explore all dimensions of an issue if possible. Now, I appreciate people who are kind enough to give their opinions.. none of us are completely wrong, and none are completely right.
Democracy works like the brain works… all neurons chattering away, and in the end a beautiful human mind and intellect appears from all those opposing and pro messages that _SEEM_ to be random …
“Ordo Ab Chao” and all that good stuff..
The moderation policies here are a total mystery to me..
by poola:
@ Tab’an Khamosh @Optimistic
Let me withdraw my support to IK for 1 millisecond this time to ask you who ’s leading you people to have a system you are interested in.
If it sounds attractive I along with others may join you to have our house in order. After all this is the ultimate goal not to make someone PM or hero.
please enlist your men/women!
———————————————————————————————————-
by Tab’an Khamosh:
For the record: I am leading myself. Anyone want to join behind me, I’m available. Don’t expect too much and don’t expect me to be sensible… Mushtri Hushyaar baash
But seriously, We ought to be active players in the political process. We are citizens, we have rights and we should demand from our leaders certain things like integrity, honesty, vision etc.
We are not going to get them all the time, agreed,but let us not give them our unconditional support. Even party workers should have some kind of distance. So I find the attitudes prevailing here odd … we should do policy based politics, and if our leaders knew beforehand we’ll desert them if they didn’t follow up on the promises, they would think twice..
Look at the shit PPP workers have gone through and how they have been treated by party leadership, turning it into a family handmaiden. It is serf-like slavis attitudes like this which cause these people to get away with stuff.
I for one, am for my own interest. If IK is the one who says he will do x,y, z, I will vote for him, if not, I’ll vote for someone else. My support is conditional, not aboslute or slavish. I am not a duckling that once impressed upon by one leader, I will follow him/her to the death.
Sorry, those times are past. Let us do issues politics, let us be selfish, in our own interests, and not let any leader, and I mean ANY leader take us for a ride again.
———————————————————————————————————-
For me, it s not a concrete stand.
Are you going contest elections from 200 NA seats if reasonably free and fair elections are going to happen in comming 6 months.
It s kind of position often PPP representatives take when they are asked what ‘s your stand regarding restoration of Judiciary and working relationship with Mush. They always say, “we would not open our cards and would cross the bridge when it s next”. And they made almost same statements before presidential election in Oct when they were asked whether you are going vote for Mush or not.
This the most bizzare statement of any political party on a very important issue I have ever heard. I mean this is issue they should be clear in their manifesto about because almost very pakistani is very much concerned about this.
If 8 posts in a day are not going to help you understand my position, then nothing will.
I am going to stop now.
“A have come across many Jamaatis who are OK if you don’t know them but when you really know them, they are: psychos (or really angrey), homos (not all of them), murderers, violent (they consider them above the law), and dictators by nature.”
@Optmist
Before I make my comments, let me make it clear that I am not a Jamaati nor I am a member of MQM.
In defense of Jamaat, yes there might be some psychos, homos and murderer in their party, but these kind people can be find in every single political party of Pakistan or anywhere in the world ( because this represents human behavior).
Why people have so high expectations from Jamaat, they are also normal human being. People expect Jamaat worker to act like an angel or super human beings, yes Jamaat have made some political blunders, so does every other political party of Pakistan. But the ratio of psychos, homos and murderers are less than other parties and their political blunders are far less than other parties.
We are more than willing to give chance to PPP, PMLN, MQM,..so many times but we are not willing to giving chance to Jamaat because they are not angel or super human being?
In regard to Imran Khan, he is still long way to go in Pakistan politics and may not get what he want but he could be a good opposition leader just like Nabzadah Nusrallah!!
Whatever you guys say!!!!!
IMRAN KHAN IS THE BEST LEADER IN PAKISTAN!!!!
May he live long!!!
@sic5770
“In regard to Imran Khan, he is still long way to go in Pakistan politics and may not get what he want but he could be a good opposition leader just like Nabzadah Nusrallah!!”
If he is not threat then you should have not wasted your time in typing above 50 words (250 letters).
The fact is he is real pain for most of the people whose (BATHA, LOWA (iron), money loundry) shops are under threat.
@ Taban Khamosh
—I for one, am for my own interest. If IK is the one who says he will do x,y, z, I will vote for him, if not, I’ll vote for someone else–
Every leader says He will do x, y, z , will u vote for all of them ? Thats not the way to go about it. some people say it and some DO it . Some say they will boycott the elections but submit their papers and dont boycott, some boycott it after sbmitting their papers and some Dont submit the papers not to have dual standards. This is practicality.
V gota have a leader in our country and U just can,t have 2 good points from NS 1 from Zardari and P Elahi and 3 From IK and have a super-Human creation of Idealism. V gota accept someone with the whole package.
“If he is not threat then you should have not wasted your time in typing above 50 words (250 letters).
The fact is he is real pain for most of the people whose (BATHA, LOWA (iron), money loundry) shops are under threat.”
For your information, I live in US and if this would be my choice, he would be my first choice vote for the top post of Pakistan. But knowing the history of Pakistan politics and following Imran Khan’s carrier over the last 30 years, he is not going to get to the top post any time soon ( due to various reasons).
My advise to you and other people before making any accusations to others, if you come to any forums, please learn to understand other people’s point of view before start typing all non sense and childish material!!
IMRAN KHAN IS THE BEST LEADER OF OUR ERA. GOD BLESS HIM.
“My advise to you and other people before making any accusations to others, if you come to any forums, please learn to understand other people’s point of view before start typing all non sense and childish material!!”
Coool down man!
@sic5770
By the way, why don’t you want us believe you that
“he is not going to get to the top post any time soon ( due to various reasons).”
without hearing any logical reasons from you.
This is the attitude Mush and Altaf Bhai pratice most of the time that others should follow them blindly without asking or questioning anything.
It did bother me in the beginning when IK was siding with JI. My opinion about Jamatis is that they are hardliners and do not have tolerence for others view points at all. And this opinion did not just appear from thin air but is based on living in a hostle in UET for a few years which was controlled by the Jamatis.
IK may have his reasons for his inclination towards JI and only time will tell what they were. He may be playing politics with JI as well, who knows. But at least he has a clear stance but none of the other leaders do, the Sharifs, who could not even decide whether to participate in the elections or not; BB, who dies in vein while promoting US agenda instead of the people of his own party; the PML-Q, well that is not a party. Now Zardari is talking about the opportunity of working with the SOB(Mush).
“without hearing any logical reasons from you.
This is the attitude Mush and Altaf Bhai pratice most of the time that others should follow them blindly without asking or questioning anything”
@Poola,
So far you have not showed any sensible behavior to me, I dont want to waste my time to show or prove any logical reasons for my statement.
My remarks that ” Imran would be my first choice for any top post in Pakistan” should be enough to read that I am not a closet fan of Muaharaf or Altaf or I am anti-Imran Khan. But again as I have said, you dont seems to be mature enough that I should be wasting my time to prove my point!!
@ sic5770
I think you are sick.
Good to see IK back still bowling bouncers and inswing yorkers.
@Poola,
I think that you are confusing me with someone else. Read my comments again. I am not anti IK. You are just assuming a lot.
asalam o alaikum, greeting to my fellow friends.Imran khan’s mind continue to serve him well. Looking at the current political situation in Pakistan any leman can easily conclude him to be the ideal and the most logical leader we can have for the time being. But Imran khan is planning to achieve Is not even theoretically or politically possible. If you look at examples around the world, in order to bring a change in a corrupt system is not by changing the leadership of a government but by bringing a change in the system itself first and then bringing a leader. Our most recent example in our generation is of the Iranian revolution where the Shah was driven out of the country by the people in order to bring a change in the system. Our most perfect example is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who’s method if we follow then only we can suceed.
Imran Khan is mixing Pakistan’s politics with the Pakistan cricket team. He think that just by changing the leadership and bring the rule of law will solve everything. Despite him being genuinely nice and sincere in his motives he seems quite naive and innocent in his ambitions.
Current Pakistan and his problems need a surgical operation ( not medical treatment with medications). Pakistan has been destroyed by the army along with the corrupt politicians and this country can ONLY be saved by the army with massive surgical operation, army is the only hope who can bring the system back on track with massive reforms, all we need one sincere and person at top, one sincere leader cannot solve Pakistan’s current problem.
@sic5770: Thanks for making me laugh uncontrollably at such an early hour.
Do you know how Iran was “saved” ?? it was saved by a popular revolution, and a lot of Jurnails were executed. You don’t see them jumping up to take over command anymore DO YOU??
Imran Khan said it best when he said(paraphrasing):
“”"”
Army is good at one thing, being told what to do, you tell them go capture that hill, and they capture that hill.. leave politics to politicians..
“”"”
He forgot one more thing: Our army is good at one more thing, looting their nation at gunpoint and amassing all this wealth in overseas accounts and properties.. No wonder they don’t want to piss off the US & UK.. First thing these countries would do is freeze all their properties worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Oh and surrendering to filthy Indians every time they get surrounded, (then changing textbooks to dupe 3rd graders into thinking we’ve been winning all these wars)
@ sic5770
With due respect I don’t agree with you brother. Army can only destroy the system & can never bring in a change. U can’t have one surgical operation and everythings gona B ok. It has to be a slow painful process in the right direction starting from the grassroot levels. The education system and alleviation of Poverty are the prime things to begin the change.
Btw therez a contradiction in your statement by saying Army can’t solve the problems and then saying army only can do it. Later on saying one sincere leader at the top is needed and then saying one sincere leader can’t solve the problem. I would urge people to put in sensible comments worthy of reading.
@ sic5770
You have got typical style of Indians who always jump into Pakistani forums and try to put things in awkward ways just to create confusion.
When they are asked questions they always change their statements and positions due to genetically reasons coming from their forefathers.
In fact, they are sick people.
Its not about a change in day or by a single guy, but the truth of the matter is that someone is doing it persistantly & constantly knocking & shaking the “status quo mindsets”, He might not be able to convert the whole audience into his supporters but will develop the same thinking in other parties as well, thats in itself a great achievement. That he single handedly raising our political parties to entirelly at a different level. The prime example is of PLMN who has enlisted Independent Judiciary as a top priority (is it not a change in the mindset?)
Look at a broad spectrum, don’t think what benefit he by himself is getting, but look at how hes benefitting the community from his sole efforts. The end beneficiary is people whether they are well served by sirectly by IK or by anyone else through his efforts & persuasion.
“Do you know how Iran was “saved” ?? it was saved by a popular revolution, and a lot of Jurnails were executed. You don’t see them jumping up to take over command anymore DO YOU??”
Please dont mix up Pakistan with Iran, our problems are deep rooted and more complex. Before I would go back to Pakistan’s problem, let me remind you that Iran is still a mess and country has not been saved with the revolution but in fact has been destroyed with the revolution. If you go to Iran, you will get the real picture.
Coming back to Pakistan, we have been living in totally different atomosphere than Iran, our country has been divided in different ethenicities, different culture, ..we care more about the languages, dresses and moderate vs fundamental Islam .
As I have said that Pakistan has been destroyed by army and they are the one who can fix this mess. If somebody think that we will have a leader, who can bring the revolution and fix the problems, they need to stop watching Indian movies!!
I am saddened to see Imran Khan’s popularity plummeted from 7% down to 1% in the latest IRI survey. Can anyone give expert opinion why is it so?
Something to console, The Taxi Driver Karachi Terrorist’s popularity also went down.
http://www.iri.org/mena/pakistan/pdfs/2008%20February%2011%20Survey%20of%20Pakistan%20Public%20Opinion,%20January%2019-29,%202008.pdf
Page 28
@sic5770: With all due respect, your grasp of the issues seems tenuous at best, so I will refrain from engaging in any further p!$$ing match with you; because on one hand the claim is that the issues are “complex” (no doubt) and the solution being offered is that Army should step in _because_ they are the ones responsible for the mess??? BRILLIANT!
Re: the advice vis-a-viz Indian movies: Physician, Heal Thyself!
Ashraf
Page 35 gives you a clearcut picture of this happening. 64 % of the people got information from TV & IK is banned on talk shows by the current regime. So his message is being blocked by force, btu its temporarily as the TV cannot afford the “dumb talk shows” too long.
When i talked about Iran I was quoting an example from history. Ofcourse In order to bring a change there will be opression, torture, killing…… without struggle, without raising your voice our efforts would be futile. My point is the process for bringing a change. The greatest example which could be regarded as the work of a true genius is of our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Why do we keep talking about democracy democracy democracy when we have our own system of islam? Why do we idealize western nations when our creator has given a system which we shud be striving for? If we see from our Prophet’s example he did’nt work in the corrupt system that was running there at that time , even though he was offered bribe, women and even power. Instead he worked by changing the minds of the people, by spreading the true message of Islam, all peacefully. He went to influencials and went to the general public, and had a defensive approach in the beginning. If someone beat you, you should take the beat, and not say anything to him. Instead tell he to come towards the true path of islam. In our societies perception of islam is now limited to rituals. Islam is about Namaz and how long your beard is. I am not here to critize Imran Khan. Mashallah the guy has a clean record and he is doing a lot to stand up against such a cruel system. My only advise Is if he follows the method of our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) he is Inshallah going to suceed.
All,
Can you guys and gals help me find out a way to restrict people to post only pertinent comments here?
Should I start deleting debates? There is a section “Visitors News and Views” for such activities!
“All,
Can you guys and gals help me find out a way to restrict people to post only pertinent comments here?
Should I start deleting debates? There is a section “Visitors News and Views” for such activities!”
In discussion forums, it is almost impossible to apply or restrict the rule to stick to the topic, otherwise the forum would soon be a ghost town.
Mr. Ta’ban,
You are more than welcome to stay away to discuss with me, I am here to express my views and I am not say I am the expert but I have followed enough Pakistan and world politics and have met with lot of famous politicians including Imran Kham ( recently), Altaf Hussain, Pir Pagara, Nawaz Sharif,…
As long as the point is not vulgar or immoral i think any point of view should be accepted. If I find any swearing taking place or my point of view deleted on this platform I would never visit this website. Instead of pointing fingers at someone’s previous mistakes we shud have a constructive approach and look for a solution.
I didn’t see any specific topic discussed in this forum.
@Sic5770
“I have followed enough Pakistan and world politics and have met with lot of famous politicians including Imran Kham ( recently), Altaf Hussain, Pir Pagara, Nawaz Sharif,…”
Who told you that this is a qualification in itself? This doesn’t say anything about your qualifications or knowledge. Please bear in mind that I am not saying anything negative about your opinion (not yet). I just want to make it clear that it is not a qualification just to have met famous politicians.
/Saqib
Imran Khan is the only Honest and Brave leader in Pakistan
I am also agaisnt his alliance with Jamaat but i know this will not become an electoral alliance..its just on one point agenda that is restoration of Judiciary
Many supporters of PTI have their concerns about JI but Imran told on many occassion that its the time to have common struggle to send Tyrant MUSH house and anyone who will support our point of view is welcome to join the struggle
Imran Khan is brave, honest and a great leadrer in Pakistan at the movement and his and PTI popularity graph has increased in last two years..there is no doubt about that
At this time no doubt Imran only looks sensible person who can represent our literate class but our state affairs has turned into jungle raj where uniform men are haunting civilians and poor people to obey their worst policies.Power mafia has become so strong that they even didnt bother to kill benzir who no doubt is part of this mafia.This mafia at this moment is not afraid of Imran as he is in bad books of US because of his clear cut pure Pakistani policy and secondly his number of followers are much lesser in rural areas where people still prefer to vote their pirs, walis or other feudal characters.So in one side we believe that Imran is giving us hope for democratic nation but again how to get rid of strong mafia who are controlling the country in all ways and these are curses of army rule for thirty years.
Thanks for posting this.. Excellent
IK is the only person we have who speak with a clear mind and knows what he is saying.
I hope whole nation listens to him because he is the only person who has done something for the nation: cricket, world cup, hospital, was the first one who talked about justice and free judiciary!!!
I agree with the general feeling here that Pak Army has destroyed this nation! Now can army save it or not? I wish they could, if they are able to, all praises for them. No personal grudges against them. However personally I do not think they want to, because it would mean cutting your own expenses and losing absolute power!
But lets’ hope someone can do this
“At this time no doubt Imran only looks sensible person who can represent our literate class but our state affairs has turned into jungle raj where uniform men are haunting civilians and poor people to obey their worst policies.Power mafia has become so strong that they even didnt bother to kill benzir who no doubt is part of this mafia”
This is why I have said that Pakistan’s current problem can ONLY be fixed by the army ( after all they are the one who have created this mess!!).
As the above poster have rightly pointed out that power mafia has become so strong, a single person cannot solve this problem. It seems like people are under the influence of Indian movies where hero seems to fix everything in 3 hours.
Imran Khan has been in political scene for almost 10 years and so far he has not win more than one seat, he does not have any base or foundation, he is not able to attract any main political figure along with him, what is his standing in NWFP, Baluchistan, interior Sindh, Karachi. For the last 10 years, he has just limited to Mianwali. He has not been able to gather more than 10,000 people on the street.
I am sorry to hurt people’s feelings here but he is not the person who can bring the revolution in Pakistan.
He is genuinely sincere in his cause, so do I and so many other people in the country, yes he has great personality, but so does so many other people in the country, yes he can speak fluent English, so does other people. He lack the charisma of a great leader, he does not have good interpersonal skills, he lack the political mind, him marrying with the Jews girl at the start of his political carrier, he has miscalculated Pakistan’s politics and these are his biggest weaknesses along with other issues.
@Admin: Maybe threaded comments would help? because most of these debates start out with genuine comments on the post itself but then degenerate into debates.. (for me that has it’s own charm, but this is your hard work, and we will abide by however you choose to deal with it)
After that if someone barges in and starts a non-related tableeghi comment you can move them to somewhere else..
@sic5770
You are still wrong. Never look at the numbers alone or personality alone. Look at his policy, vision, sincerity and what he does for the nation.
/Saqib
@sic5770
You are still wrong. Never look at the numbers alone or personality alone. Look at his policy, vision, sincerity and what he does for the nation.
/Saqib
My friend, if you would go with the policies or vision, I have not come across with a single political party, who has bad policies or visionon paper. Even MQM has the best policies and vision on paper.
Imarn and his followers have to look at these important issues and have to be open minded to listen to critics instead of living in the delusional world.
@sic5770
Lets say for a millosecond v agree with you. Who would you suggest as our leader ? Am all eyes. Please dont say U dont support a particular person or party cuz that wud mean ur supporter of army running the country. Its a simple question . Who would You vote for ?
“Please dont say U dont support a particular person or party cuz that wud mean ur supporter of army running the country. Its a simple question . Who would You vote for ?”
First of all I would never support army or I have said anywhere that I am in a favor of army rule. I have clearly said that Pakistan’c current mess is created by the army and they are the only force who can clean this mess. I have my high doubts that Pakistan is going to be in the map of the world in next 10-15 years. But as I have been repeatedly saying ( and people are taking it in wrong context!!) since army is the only organized institute in Pakistan and they are the only one who can save the country. If army has not taken the responsibility, we are not going to survive.
I dont see any political leader who can save the country at the moment. We are not one nation anymore, we are divided in different ethnicities, languages, cultures, people dont care about the country anymore ( in fact we have never care about the country). Pakistanis are the biggest narcissistic people in the world. We care more for our egos than anything else, our political leaders are all narcissistic( including Imran Khan!!) and treat the people like shit.
I can bet that most of the Guys who present themselves as BIGGEST political analyst have never and will never VOTE even if an angel participated in elections.
I am sorry but reality is there is maximum 35% turn out in Pakistani elections…
fact is some people have addiction to write comments and they have nothing to do with political parties etc. I know from my own personal expereience many people who will talk hours and hours on politics and write blogs and essays on politics and when comes the election day, they sleep whole day
Its very easy to criticize and people made it their hobby
whenever, someone clearly declare his/her support for XYZ party, some hobby bloggers start criticize him and his political leadership
I suggest these guys to make their own political party with the name of BLOGGERS ALLIANCE and participate in the election
I do not wanna mention names of these people but i think anyone who would go through 3-4 threads can easily pin point them
He is a joke of the Pakistani Politics. He used to bitterly criticized Nawaz and Benazir for corruption and then joined hands with them. He praised Musharraf and then turned against him. He supported JI and Qazi and then got kicked out of University by the student wing of JI. I respect his skills as a cricketer but I believe he was better off focusing on the charity and social work.
If he really wanted to be a politician, he should have joined a leading political party like PPP or PML. Though, his dictatorial and arrogant nature may not have allowed him to stay for long with a single party.
Lets thing beyond the elections now . The main issues that looms these days are
1) How can v change our foreign policy which is both acceptable to America somehow and also guarantees a bloodless good governance in the troubled areas of the North west province according to the wishes of the natives. This is v v imp cuz whether u like it not but America is the most powerful nation of the world nowadays and ‘ Na iss say ziaada dosti achi hay na dushmani’ .
2) Restore a free judiciary and doing that is like a double edge sword. Ya Musharraf rahay ga ya free judiciary so best bet is to restore judiciary.( not only cuz its the most popular choice but also its the right thing)
3)Distrubution of Power and Governance to the Parliment ( which represents people ) and take the powers off the president afterall its not a presidential form of government, its a parlimentry form of govt.
4) Balochistan’s people are also not v happy with the establishment for obvious reasons so the next govt has to do some reforms which heals their wounds. This is also v imp to keep the Federation.
All this after free and fair elections which would be acceptable to the participants ( which looks highly unlikely )
Now look at these mentioned problems and tell me in which SINGLE one issue Mush hasn’t played his part?
@ Kheshgi
you are a joke of pkpolitics.com
you suddenly come and give your Fatwa on IK’s past and where is your past? you are quite a new entry here. As far your wish for IK to join main party like PPP or PML, which party do you support?
We know your views on IK now. and below is what you say about PPP.
Kheshgi views on6th of February on PPP
‘It is amazing that they are talking about PPP keeping the Federation together, did they forgot the role of Bhutto and PPP in the East Pakistan tragedy by refusing to accept the will of the majority?’
You are talking in Altaf Hussain’s language. Generals were responsible for breaking Pakistan. You have blamed a politician and in fact the whole PPP. Go hide behind NS now because most of MQM guys are too ashamed to accept that they support MQM. They start like this: ‘Imran is my hero but he should not be in politics’ etc etc.
Optimist U made me laugh like hell . Spot on !
@ Optimist
Imran is a hero by any measurable standard, and definitely a sincere pakistani. The only problem is that he hasn’t been able to gain the support of the masses, and unfortunately, may never. He’s very similar to Ron Paul (www.ronpaul2008.com), who is respected by many, but still by any significant majority. I do not see Imran Khan playing an integral role in Pakistani politics for too long, but always being the voice of the masses.
he is fighting with establishement , with corrupt politicians with Mafias like MQM…ofcourse that is the difficult way but it is the right way…let the free and fair election happen and you will see the change which already happen in Pakistani middle class and they will vote for PTI.
people who criticize IK without any reason like: he is popular , But……
He is good , but………….
He is a voice of masses but……..
infact, these people wanna support corrupt system of Pakistan , as they do not have moral courage to say it clearly, so they make these non clear statements about IK and PTI
One thing that more or less everybody is agreeing that IKs efforts are commendable in lifting the spirits & hopes of the masses & voicing for them.
One factor that we mostly ignore when we compare PTI with PLMN & PPP is that the both of these parties were founded by the ones(NS&Bhutto) after serving in the office(government) for quite sometime. So politicaly they were well known before having their own parties, while IK was known as a player & social worker to general before launching PTI, so he has to struggle hard in order to change his image from a player-cum-social woker to a politician.
And its in itself a great achievement that hes been able to not to get attention but also carries the major role in bringing back the civil society & youth into the active politics.
@sic5770
PTI is very open minded and always look forward to correct mistakes. Also look at PTI website
http://www. moveforjustice.org
Everybody is free to express their views (freedom of expression). If you write according to the rules i.e. no foul language etc. then there is no moderator editing in your posts. At least he will be ready to give you an explanation and NOT dig his head in the sand.
/Saqib
Who does GuyFawkes support? His views on Bhutto:
“excellent summary. Since 1970, Pakistan has not had a proper democracy – thank you to mr.zulfiqar ali bhutto, and the very lethal ISI.”
In favour of Altaf Hussain’s anti-federation letter:
“How is “aman aur baichara” anti-federation?? pkpolitics administration is getting more and more biased by the day”
His views on Sheikh Rashid:
“Sheikh Rasheed is a veteran of pakistani politics. He talks with honesty, and gives a very accurate image of exactly how doglaybaaz our politicians are.”
On Musharraf’s address:
“I am no musharraf supporter, but all the above comments apart from a few are pure musharraf bashing without basis!! Anger and emotions are clouding your judgment – give credit where it is due, and don’t unnecessarily keep criticizing! We are pakistanis, do we really want to be known as people who are hot headed and unintelligent?”
It is obvious that GuyFawkes is not NS lover (from above comments). He has blamed Bhutto as well. By saying that Pakistan is not ready for western democracy, it means his views are not in line with APDM including Imran Khan.
So which party is left? Only person he seems to agree is with Mush, MQM & Co.
He is the man who supported Gen. Musharraf in the referendum 2004. He is one of those guys who have done wonders to the cause of Musharraf & now he speaks about democracy, Crazy man.
HE IS NOT BOYCOTTING!!! He is running away from the embarrassment of again getting only 1 seat in the National Assembly…which I personally doubt, I think this time he will not even get a single seat and that’s the reason why he’s running away from the elections.
Jasmine Rafique
http://pkfocus.blogspot.com
@ jasmine
you seem to have more problem with him when he is not supporting Musharraf. Can we call you all those names what you are calling him for being a Mush Kutta lover??
@Jasmine
I don’t mind if you critisize IK or anybody else, but please be factual and not emotional. Your ideas a very far fetched. IK is not afraid of defeat….that he has not been since his playing days. Always leading from the front!
/Saqib
Jasmine Rafique is a Muhajir Qoumi Movement member.
http://pkfocus.blogspot.com is an outfit for Pakistani Terrorist Altaf Hussain and his MQM.
@ Optimist
Could you ever argue without attacking my character itself? Here I say something about Imran Khan, completely factual, and you don’t bother responding to it, but instead copy/paste something you’ve written on other walls. What is wrong with you? too much hate
very well done guys…these MUSH and MQM supporters even do not have courage to say that they support him
but you have really done good job by showing their previous comments..good work
@Tariq
Where is the proof for that?
/Saqib
What a looser Imran Khan is. Why dont he take part in elections???
I never heard him say something about BB’s murder. Did he really hated her that much.
@Forgotten_sindhi
Elections:
How is he a looser if he doesn’t take part in fraudelent elections?
BB´s murder:
Thats a damn lie. Is it so difficult to speak the truth? He has condemned the incident many times. He need not to show crocodile tears to anybody.
/Saqib
@forgotten_sindhi
why dont he take part in elections???
Let me give u the answer. He isn’t taking part in elections because
1) All the political parties had decided they won’t take part in elections but lateron some of them did. it was just like all the parties said they wud protest infront of Bush wen he came 2 pakistan and all of them backed off and only Imran was left cuz he was true to his words.
2) Do you really think the elections are gona b free and fair ? Even ur PPP is saying if elections are rigged , v would do this and that. So if u r soo sure they r gona b rigged, y r u taking part in it.
3) If judiciary is not free, and the CJ of the country is under house arrest, who would you go to to get justice?
Now i ask you forgotten_sindhi, if you sisters ( not yours just generally speaking ) are being treated in such in-human way like that of Imran khan and your country-men are suffering cuz of ONE person, would you close ur eyes and ignore that and take part in his Election drama or would you struggle to get rid of him ?
I remember Qateel Shifai’s sher here — Dunya may Qateel os sa Munafiq nahee koi
Jo zulm to sehta hay Baghawat nahee karta
Optimist – No need to be upset about my thoughts on Imran. I have personally met individual who went from US to Lahore to volunteer time on his hospital project. He returned totally disgusted with Imran’s arrogant and dictatorial attitude. I know a cricketer who was in the Pakistan training camp with Imran and he recalled how abusive and disrespectful Imran was with the fellow players.
His attitude and past actions are not consistent with his political stance and thoughts. He definitely needs more time to mature and be a force in the national politics.
he is already a force in Pakistani Politics..a genuine force without any establishment help
I challenge MQM goons that just wait for sometime..as soon as Mush will be out and free and fair elections takes place..PTI and IK will get more votes than MQM.
@ Saqib & patriotic Pakistani,
BB’s murder:
we people in sindh dont want condolences in TV. Our culture and religion(may be not Imran’s) teaches us when someone dies – go and visit their family and grave!!! what do u guys do if someone you know dies … you hang around on streets and say to people “oh poor him/her – I feel sorry” or you go and visit their family. This ignorant man is traveling all over the world and dont have time or WILL to visit sindh once … WHY? dont we deserve that.
Elections:
Yes PPP knows that polls are going to be rigged big time but they are taking part in elections so that they can bring some voices of ordinary people in Parliament – rather than sitting in home and shouting for nothing. PPP knows that they have voices (unlike PTI) and no matter how rigged the elections are they will get some of them together. Imran knows his voices (supporters) are based only in internet or abroad, who can do nothing more tha putting some videos in youtube or holding some charts in front of embassies abroad. If you guys have guts than go on streets in pakistan and fight for justice in front of dogs (pakistan army and forces). The way PPP, PML(N) and lawyers do.
He is a looser – and you guys will also remain looser if you dont go in polls.
@ Saqib & patriotic Pakistani,
one more thing: you talked about our sisters … Imran’s sister were only beaten but OUR SISTER WAS KILLED (BB) and our 1000 of sisters are beaten everyday in support of BB and our country. But we are still taking part in election to fight back.
Can you explain me ” how would you struggle to get rid of them” by not taking part in elections?
There are many MQM Munafiq on this site (I am not referring to ordinary sincere voters of MQM). They cannot defend policies of Mush/MQM. They pretend to be something that they are not and try to change discussion.
How to recognise MQM Munafiq: They make statements like this:
1. I am Achakzai supporter but I think Altaf Hussain is right when he says ……..
(usual rubbish).
2. I supported IK in last elections but now I think he is ………. (another tactic)
3. I am Balochi/Sindhi and I have turned against Pakistan . I don’t know why Alftaf Hussain still support federation ………. (they want us to value MQM because of a fake Balochi/Sindhi)
4. I am just stating facts and you assume I support MQM, you are pathetic.
5. Everyone is corrupt. Nothing will happen. Stop wasting your time”
These people are MUNAFIQ and scared of our resolve against dictatorship. They are too ashamed to be supporters of MQM/Mush so they cannot openly admit. They just come here to distract us and hijack the discussion.
@ Kheshgi
you have personally met someone who went to Shaukat Khanum? Guess what? I went there for three months with a Cancer patient. That patient sadly died after three months because she was at last stages but she had free treatment and equal service like everyone else. 92% of patients are treated for free. Those who can afford, pay some money and rich ones pay all (only 2% pay everything). The money earned is used to treat the poor. 100% free treatment was given to that poor girl (it was year 1999 and the girl was from Sheikhupura). Since that time I have done as much as I can for that hospital.
Ask God for forgiveness for blaming Imran for running ONLY cancer hospital in Pakistan. He is the only hope for poor cancer sufferers. Go and look at the suffering of the patients. I would pray that God doesn’t show any of your relatives that suffering (that I witnessed for three months).
Optimist – You seems very emotional about Imran, good for you. I never questioned the charity aspects of his work. In fact, in one of my previous postings I mentioned that he should have focused on the charity and social work instead of politics. He lost respect among many since he joined politics. Anyways, I don’t see him or his party becoming a major political force in Pakistan in the near term.
@ kheshgi
I am not emotional. you are contradicting yourself. I was just contradicting your lies about his hospital running. I have seen it personally.
@ Kheshgi
i don’t think Imran is in politics for short term benefits like Bhatta Khore Altaf Hussain. He is in for a long term movement. He will not use politics of Race to become popular. You seem to be at pains just because you ‘don’t see him or his party becoming a major political force in Pakistan in the near term’? If I were against him, I would be happy and won’t even comment on his videos if he was that insignificant.
You don’t know Imran. You guys are in a very big surprise even in Sindh. Mark my words.
@ forgotten_sindhi
Sindh isnt a part of India or an independant state, its a part of Pakistan. Don,t try 2 break the federation by having cheap sympathy from the people of sindh. I am a pathan but I am 1st of all proud to a Pakistani and then everything comes 2nd.
For ur second question that y Imran don,t come 2 sindh? Just keep ur knowledge upto date. He did try to come to sindh but He wasnt allowed to enter Sindh and was sent back from airport not just once but 2-3 times in the last 3 months. y ? Is Sindh not a part of Pakistan?
Regarding ur 3rd question that u know elections are being rigged but u still wana take part in it to fight back hun ? Fight back BB,s martyrdom ?? Come on man U were taking part in elections even before her incident took place. Who are u trying to fool!
A v famous PML-Q leader recently said that if PPP had boycotted the elections, all the parties would have done so and that would have been the end of Musharraf!
Before finishing, I would say that I had and I will always have the highest regard for BB and her father and brother and I know they have a huge followingall over the country. They talked about Federation and never talked about only sindh. So follow the footsteps of ur leaders and dont b a nationalist cuz by doing that U would be more like MQM wala rather than PPP supporter.
@ patriotic_pakistani
Do you honestly believe that he is a PPP supporter? would a PPP supporter insult NS like MQM/Q league and advise him to become president of PPP punjab.
Read what I have written about E-Munafiqeen. you will know what they want to say and what they really mean. These people just want to hijack the discussion. They especially attack forums where the word ‘Imran Khan’ is mentioned.
@ forgotten_sindhi
make one id with forgotten_balochi as well and visit all the forums where Imran Khan is mentioned. This is a good way to distract people from criticising Bhatta Mafia and Qatil Movement.
@ optimistic.
I am proud sindhi and PPP supporter. Just because I insulted Imran and Nawaz because they have insulted sindhis all the time doesn’t mean I am MUNAFIQ … and stop using this word.
I think you are the biggest munafiq on this site by not telling anyone which party you support and by copy pasting in same message about your brothers (MUNAFIQs) in all forums.
I am proud of being Pakistani but living in Pakistan I feel discriminated being sindhi … and this is true and you can argue me all the time but you can never understand it because WE suffer it not you sitting in PUNJAB.
@forgotten_sindhi
Put up or shut. I request you to put forward comments or actions that have come from IK and which have insulted Sindhis. I don’t think that NS has made such comments recently that have insulted Sindhis. You people only this card left whenever you want to create confusion and hatred between Pakistanis.
You have a lot to say but unfortunately without any proper arguments. Only the ususal blame game
/Saqib
@ Optimist
You are right on the money about masquerading tactics of MQM mafia supporters.
Beware of Munafiq fake Sindhis.
Real Sindhis are either supporting PPP or APDM. Fake Sindhis want to weaken opposition to strengthen Mush/MQM/Q alliance.
@ forgotten_Sindhi
Why are you so angry when I point out MQM Munafiq?? You cannot find contradiction that is why you are calling me a Munafiq?
I am happy that it is not very difficult to expose Munafiq. A majority of them comes from MQM lovers.
@forgotten_sindhi
PPP has come into power thrice, could you please let us know how PPP elevated the living standards of Sindhis, schools, colleges, universities, businesses, etc.
Since you are from Sindh, so you are in a better shape to throw light on PPPs developmental programs for Sindh during their tenure.
Thanks
@forgotten_sindhi: Shurrree! You’re a Sindhi.. um hmmm.. We believe you! And I’m Dan Quayle. Nice to meet you!
@ asif
he is not a sindhi. the anger he has against Imran only one party has (altaf Don’s). I have met Sindhis and I know that they prefer IK over Don Edgwere.
The way you guarantee that I am not sindhi because I insulted your PEER sahab.
I can also guarantee that you are all punjabis because you yell when someone in Pakistan tells the truth and when someone in internet say something against IK and NS. Why do you guys from Punjab want to rule everyone – you guys cant even speak proper urdu??
Anyways, we people in real pakistan (other 3 provinces) dont like you – and thats my opinion.
And if you guys think I am MQM supporter – than do that … no one is forcing you to believe me. I also think that you are jahil paindoos with keyboard.
@forgotten_sindhi
Could you please share your views regarding this?
PPP has come into power thrice, could you please let us know how PPP elevated the living standards of Sindhis, schools, colleges, universities, businesses, etc.
Since you are from Sindh, so you are in a better shape to throw light on PPPs developmental programs for Sindh during their tenure.
Thanks
@ Forgotten_sindi
I ain’t from Panjab I am a pathan from NWFP but as I said earlier wen will v learn to B pakistani 1st. Please b proud of ur country. Noone snubbed u for talking against NS and IK or watever, Its just that U r promoting nationalism.
You can criticize whoever u please but that should be constructive, logical and to the point with no hint of contamination of Un-Patriotism.
V are all ONE from Karachi to Khyber, from Kashmir to Gawadar and tharparkar.
Sab Mil ke Kahoooo PAKISTAAAAAAAAAAAN ZINDABAAAAAAAAAD!
There is no one parallel to Imran khan. He is such a bold patriotic leader and there is no other leadership like Imran khan.
Sometimes I feel that we as nation might not deserve such a great leader like Imran khan who always believes in leading from front. People love Imran but most of the people are not ready to come out in streets and join these protests for a noble struggle.
I think there is need to encourage other sincere influential people to join the party and we must open our offices to all the major cities of Pakistan. PTI should not only be Imran khan in fact other leader must be encouraged to join the party. For all this there is need fund raising and PTI leadership should focus on these objectives. PTI official web site is
http://www.moveforjustice.org
Before PTI election boycott I firmly believe that people will show their love with Imran khan and solidarity with PTI by casting their vote to PTI. I think Imran took the right decision and at least some sincere politician should stand with the judges who sacrifice their jobs for the sake of rule of law. But i do believe that if we all cast vote to that party which is talking about the restoration of judges PML (n) that ultimately support the same cause as Imran sacrificed. We must fail this king’s party and Musharraf, Altaf alliance. They are real hypocrites. Lastly i think if we did take the decision to contest election we can beat MQM in vote numbers. MQM have their only ethnic vote and they even don’t represent all Mahajirs. They can never become never be the main stream political party unless and until the take decision in interest of Pakistan. They have paid the heavy price of 12th of May incident in last year and Imran has exposed Altaf real image in front of people of Pakistan. Benazir, who is a woman, had more courage than Altaf that despite of so many threats; she came to Pakistan and gave her life in people gathering. It is unthinkable and there is no any other example in the world that a party rule a country for five years, the governor sindh is from his party, so many ministers belongs to their party (even the president chief of army staff at that time did support) him but the party leader Altaf don’t have courage to come in the country because of the fear of his life threat. Basically they are real hypocrites i want lot more to say about him but i have to leave here.
The history will always remember Imran khan struggle for the rule of law in this country. [b] [/b][u] [/u][i] [/i]
@forgotten_sindhi
I would to add my question to Asif ‘s:
How do you see the MQM ‘s services for Sindh particularly during last 8 years?
While answering question, remember during last 8 years MQM and Sindh ‘s provincial govt. was all in all during last 8 years and had strong backing from center due to strongest allies of Musharraf B***d.
A Sindhi worried that Punjabis cannot speak proper Urdu, LOL
I have met many Sindhis in London and they are saying so many things about MQM that it won’t be nice to repeat them.
And I talk about MANY Sindhis. Ask any Sindhi about MQM and army action and they will tell you how badly they are waiting for that.
Sindhis never taunt someone about their Urdu. They never call other Paindoos because MQM supporters call Sindhis paindoos too.
One can see that a Jahiloon Ka Jahil thinks that we are all Ch… like him and we will believe him.
Beware of E-Munafaqeen. One more exposed. Congratulations to everyone who has the courage to admit their affiliations.
@Admin
Is there anyway to block such Comments or the People who are Posting these comments that are totally irrelevant to the Topic?
Thanks,,,
Bravo Imran.. Bravo..
Its sad to see your not running Sir but i guess your case is justified.
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