In the interest of preserving everyone’s sanity on this site, we need to re-iterate some ground rules and set some boundaries. But before I do that, hopefully gently, some background:
For the past few days, many visitors have engaged in acrimonious exchanges revolving mainly around the issue of ethnicity. This has prompted some visitors to complain that this site has a bias which happens to go against them specifically. There have been claims and counter-claims which span the spectrum, from “anti-muhajir” to “anti-sindhi” to “anti-ImranKhan” to “Anti-[insert your favorite here]“.
I need to make this absolutely clear that this site, first and foremost is Pro-Free Judiciary, Pro Free Press, Pro Freedom (not the GWB kind) and Pro Common Sense!
It would not be wrong to assume that most people who participate in discussions on this site are well-educated and sensible people. People who care enough about their nation (Pakistan for those still not sure) to take part in passionate and heartfelt debates on the pros and cons of the issues of the day.
We would like to keep discussions issue based, and prefer they not degenerate into feces-slinging matches between members of this site. I would like to reiterate that this site strives to provide a forum for thought provoking exchange of ideas and believes in respect for others’ right to express ideas even though one might disagree with them.
Some new members may have formed some impressions which are inaccurate. Visitors speak out against what they think is wrong. For example they were against BB not because she is Sindhi but due to her meeting with Musharraf, NRO or may be pro-US image. People express opinions against PMLN, MQM, PTI mainly because of the policies they are pursuing and not because they are headed by a pair of bald Punjabi men, or consist of Muhajir’s, or headed by Imran Khan who is a Pashtoon, respectively.
NS tends to get more support because he has been going with the currents of thought that the majority visitors of this site seem to subscribe to, since the day he was forcibly deported and his continued strong anti-mush and pro-judiciary stand. But the very same NS gets blamed on pkpolitics when he takes back lotas. Now, MQM supporters could say the same that Altaf Hussain gets support by some members because he was forced into exile and his family members brutally killed by security forces. Others would cite counter claims. But during all this, we have to be sensitive to other Pakistanis’ feelings and try to put ourselves in their shoes. We need to go beyond ethnicities and engage in issue based conversations.
Finally I want to mention that this forum is read and sometimes referred to by top news agencies in the world and I don’t want anyone to even think that Pakistanis fight or blame each other based on ethnicity. We are better than that. The forum is “Pakistan Politics” and run by people who are only Pakistanis and people engaging in “ethnic baiting” or accusing pkpolitics or other visitors of ethnic biases WILL BE BANNED to keep better image of Pakistan in front of the world.
Let us keep our discussions passionate yet issues based, and let us contribute towards achieving a meeting of the minds rather than wasting our time on counterproductive ethnic claims and counterclaims. We are Pakistanis and we are all in this together.
Pakistan Zindabaad!
aprreciate your idea mate
@admin
ok, now tell us what are you going to post tonight?
Talat with Mushtaq and Nusrat is being encoded, might take more than 1 hour. Are you interested in audio only MP3?
Admin
yep I prefer mp3 , can listen while driving
Yes, but when we talk of events like May 12, 2007 in Karachi, we are not talking about ethnicity and we are not against MQM. We just want to tell people what Mafia can do to show its power.
@econfused,
Agree and I don’t have any problem with that. Most educated people fully acknowledge and support the development work done by MQM in Karachi, but the very same educated people would hate MQM for the language they have used against the Chief Justice and their role in supporting the dictator in everything including the 3rd November 2007 event, due to which the judges and their families are still under arrest.
Admin
@alifnoon,
http://pkpolitics.com/audio/index.php?dir=live-with-talat
I missed some of the starting portion of the program.
Admin
yeah, keep your annoying ethnic messages for youtube. jk, stay hate free.
Hi Admin – you write well!
Anyway, just wanted to let you know that we are still waiting for today’s press conference video. Posting the audio did not get you off the hook
“Finally I want to mention that this forum is read and sometimes referred to by top news agencies ”
Any examples?
Now this site is pro-judiciary, and today heard on GEO, MQM with same old rhetoric that if PCO was good in 2000, than why is is not good in 2007. Now if some one have to tell me how to put common sense in those guys?
Do they even see that what CJ and lawyers has done for this country? CJ and lawyers has given a new hope. We can look toward a democratic better Pakistan. The whole scenario changed in Pakistan on 9th of March.
I have every reason to believe that CJ will be back in court and we will see better role of Parliament. Lets assume even for some freaking unknown “Mukka” of Mr. President, that we do not see CJ and other honorable judges back in court, we still live in a different Pakistan. We as a nation are indebted for ever to people like Iftikhar Chaudhry, Aitezaz Ahsan and all the unnamed, unknown people who came to support for a just cause.
As for MQM supporters, I just wish if they can see how much positive role was provided by the Supreme Court. CJ’s only crime was to visit Karachi on 12th of May without permission of Don.
I am with you admin on this 100%. It is a matter of policy and stands rather than ethnicity.
@thehustler,
Some that I remember are Reuters, AFP, Business Week, etc.
http://www.economist.com/world/international/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10653963
http://www.mywire.com/pubs/AFP/2007/11/06/4891406?extID=10051
http://www.ioltechnology.co.za/article_page.php?from=rss_IOLTechSecurity&iSectionId=2883&iArticleId=4117864
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article2844015.ece
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/nov2007/gb2007115_453729.htm?campaign_id=rss_topStories_msnbc
http://www.businessweek.com/@@PjqHnWUAxa1rNAQA/globalbiz/content/nov2007/gb20071112_430063_page_2.htm
http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2008/02/13/pakistan-poll-and-the-voice-from-the-past/
Admin
I fully support Admin. We are Pakistani’s first. We have to take this sindhi, baluchi….. thing out of our minds. The day we start thinking as “our”,”us” instead of “me” or “I” we will start progressing. Lets try it out….
Admin I agree 100% with you.
Like I don’t see Zardari as Sindi or whatever (I am blind in this respect) but it horrifies me that he rushes off to salute his real Master. It surprises me as how come his party people accept and condone such plain stupidity and can still put up a brave face after that. I thought PPP claimed that all decisions are taken by the CWC after exhaustive considerations. So is the whole CWC complicit?
Pleased read an inspiring article by the newly elected Ayaz Amir (PML (N).
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=97566
@ admin pk politics.
A good announcement / advice from you. Please try to answer them in the beginning, if possible, to their each & every query , for instance, as above, ( because your answers now, need not be repeated again & again ) & which answers, will go a long way in removing doubts in minds of many of your old contributors & new entrants, of how to proceed in the future, if such questions arise in their minds also.
Many pundits have said that Pakistan Peoples Party was not successful in capitalizing the Benazir Bhutto’s assassination. I have not read anything about the spin that Benazir’s assassination actually masked PPP’s deal with Mush with the blessing of USA. Asif Zardari’s meeting with US ambassador may be an indication that this deal is still on.
Would Benazir’s deal been a big liability for PPP in elections, had she lived? Any comments?
@ Admin
I was the 1st one to point out this thing in the discussions under ‘ IMRAN KHAN Talks at Democracy now’.
There this debate about sindhi and panjabi and pathans started irrelevant to the topic and I wrote this.
Patriotic_Pakistani on February 14th, 2008 2:42 am @ forgotten_sindhi
Sindh isnt a part of India or an independant state, its a part of Pakistan. Don,t try 2 break the federation by having cheap sympathy from the people of sindh. I am a pathan but I am 1st of all proud to a Pakistani and then everything comes 2nd.
Patriotic_Pakistani on February 14th, 2008 8:49 pm @ Forgotten_sindi
I ain’t from Panjab I am a pathan from NWFP but as I said earlier wen will v learn to B pakistani 1st. Please b proud of ur country. Noone snubbed u for talking against NS and IK or watever, Its just that U r promoting nationalism.
You can criticize whoever u please but that should be constructive, logical and to the point with no hint of contamination of Un-Patriotism.
V are all ONE from Karachi to Khyber, from Kashmir to Gawadar and tharparkar.
Sab Mil ke Kahoooo PAKISTAAAAAAAAAAAN ZINDABAAAAAAAAAD!
Btw at that time i was using Patriotic Pakistan.
So credit 2 me that I voiced ur opinion in the stone age
Pro-Common Sense….:D nice comment.
anyways, I have been a silent observer of this site and just recently started posting on various topics.
Nice work you are doing here.
btw, can we delete / modify he comment after posting?. I don’t see any link here?
Hi Admin,
i 100 % agree with you when it comes to the debate of ur site being baist or unbaist ….
this site is a public forum….anyone can join and is free to comment or post his views ….
i have read many views against NS also ..so saying that this site is a pro NS site is wrong …as i have seen strong followers of PPP being the regular visitor of the site …
it is a pretty balanced site ….
with all Pakistani inside and outside Pakistan ,anti or pro mush ,anti or pro BB,anti or pro NS ,anti or pro any party ,has equal rights to share thier views …….
thanks a lot for giving us such a great platform to discuss ….
Aslam o Alaikum Admin
It is very clear and highly appreciated,
PAKISTAN ZINDABAAD
@ADMIN
iss forum per sabb say pehlay tabbaan khamoosh nay galeyaan shroo kein thein. he expressed it in dots like ……………………………………………… or ———————————————– .
plz keep an eye on him.
thanx
Well said Admin ,and we all should abide by the law of this site.But one thing you said we should not fight each other on ethnicity.????Which force me to write here. If we take UK it comprises of England,Ireland and Scotland, they seems united in front of the world but infact they hate each other. this is because of ethnicity.
It is without any doubt, Pakistan is one country consists of 4 provinces and all four provinces are diffrent from each other, and on top of it we have also migrated people from muhajirs. When we pakistan use word muhajirs, it sounds like a swearing….same like Paki use by many in England sounds like swearing to us.
Being a muslim and follower of Prophet Mohammad, Muhajirs were the most respected people among others because they left their home for the sake of Islam.
The ethnicity will remain in all of us people, because we all are from diffrent region.but we should unite and fight for judiciary and democracy and work for the betterment for Pakistan.
I said earlier, we should not blame each other, we should not use bad words,pull each other legs, and hit direct to each other.
Yes, we can keep on crticise and debate on the issue based conversation with logic and with our sense.
One very Good example I give you here, When in NWFP , people celebrate Eid 2 days before we in Punjab celebrate…how does it sounds.?? so diffrence is there.
Seen from my point of view it is absolutely NOT about ethnicity. I can have strong words against NS, who is a fellow Punjabi, and I can have very negative opinion about the “Chaudries” and they are also Punjabis. I have also had my strong reservations about BB, a Sindhi. I preserve the right to also have some strong opinion about MQM and that is NOT because they call THEMSELVES “Muhajir” in spite of having been in Pakistan for decades. It is weird that they still are persistent with that ethnicity tag. Manhandling of people in different parts of Pakistan has another angle which has not much to do with ethnicity. No one is entitled to special treatment. Everyone is equal, but our society is unfortunately so corrupt that those who are weak/poor gets maltreated, be it a Punjabi, Sindhi, Balochi etc.
My opposition to MQM is based on MQM attitude, politics and actions. MQM calls itself a political party, but to stay in power they have unfortunately been committing crimes against humanity, collecting “Bhatta”, are involved in heavy terrorist activities, cheating heavily and openly in elections, has a leader who is against the creation of our beloved nation. Also look at how they behave i.e. lie to the nation constantly. As long as they continue these illegal activities including terrorism I will be opposing them! The same can be said about PML-Q or any other party, which is involved in illegal activities. MQM and PML-Q are parties with two different ethnicities, but have many similarities regarding evil ideology; therefore I will be a staunch critic of these parties until they denounce ALL illegal activities. There is no room for such ideologies in Pakistan be it Punjabi, Sindhi, Balochi etc.
/Saqib
I like your elementary lecture on the pitfalls of ethnicity
Wish we can see beyond these inferiority (or superiority) complexes.
Completely agree with you admin. Besides depicting a primitive gesture of Pakistan a lot of time is wasted in such kind of endless discussion where nobody is ready to listen to others and change his/her stance.
ABOVE all, for me more important than Pakistan image in the outer world is to keep these muhajir brothers with us in the main stream as nobody would disagree that they are well educated, intellectually rich and are integral part of Pakistan. We should not discourage them if they want to join the main steam by comming on this site. We need to be careful and positive in dealing such situation.
Please be aware of the victim role played by MQM. Wenever they are heavily critisized they play this ethnicity card which is a fraud itself. To have more weight behind their fight for supremacy to collect “Bhatta” in Karachi they pretend to defend all the Muhajir/urdu speaking people. In reality this is a traditional gimmick from their side. In this regard we should clearly distinguish between MQM and other urdu speaking brothers who are also fed up by MQM terrorists.
/Saqib
The four provinces of Pakistan are administrative units, not ethnic entities. All Pakistani provinces are populated by people from different ethnic backgrounds having different mother tongues. In Punjab, there are punjabis, pothoharis, seraikis, balochs and urdu speaking people. In NWFP, we have pashto, seraiki, hindko and shina speaking people. In Baluchistan there are people who speak pashto, baluchi, brahvi and persian. Similarly there are people in Sindh who speak sindhi, urdu and balochi.
So all provines are multi-ethnic. If we promote ethnicism, then it will not only hurt our country but will also hurt our provinces and there will be demands for more and more divisions based on ethnicity.
Our strength is our unity. We are all Pakistanis first and then anything else.
Very well written message and you’ve communicated effectively. I just want to bring your attention to two important aspects. First of all, the reminder from your side to all of Pakistanis is thought provoking for all of us! These ethnic based comments simply illustrate our vision and thinking as a nation!
Second if you want to act as a partial forum, although, which is bit difficult so you’ve to also take a neutral stance on the issue of judiciary? Why you’re declaring this site as pro free-judiciary? Is the current judiciary is not free in Pakistan as per the claim of our President? May you clarify this aspect?
This is my first ever post on pkpolitics. I would like to start by appreciating admin for the wonderful job of keeping us informed and aware about motherland.
After goinh through the whole thread, i have come to know that most of us do not even know why Pakistan was created. I would like to refresh the memory of those people…Pakistan is a state which came into being because of ideology of a group of people, not because they belong to some particular ethnic group. All four provinces are different, with different languages, traditions, BUT it is the ideology that keep us united.
One of my friend mentioned the migration of prophet (P.B.U.H),…. he migrated for the preservation of his ideology not to preserve his ethnic origin. Our Prophet (P.B.U.H) is considered saint because he believed in his ideology and for its preservation he even left everything, i.e. his home, city etc…..same is the case with mahajirs, who came to PAkistan, now if they think their ethnic origin is above their ideology, i.e. Pakistan, then I must say that your elders who bear all the hardships of migration must be ashamed of you right now…same goes for those who are not mahajirs.
Let us rise above these stupid things and give prosperity to the ideology given to us by our elders. Long Live Pakistan!!…Long Live Pakistanis!!!
Very well said Mr. Hassan bin Haider.
Firstly, I am urdu-speaking or what one would call a Muhajir :S but these are the last terms by which I would want to be referred. Secondly, if one is urdu-speaking (muhajir) that does not necessarily mean he or she is a supporter of MQM. I am a Pakistani and I will fight for justice, democracy and prosperity for the people of my country to the last drop of my blood. I will fight against dictatorship, injustice, violence and preachers of fear, no matter what the ethnicity of those preaching it may be. I am acting with my consience and my convictions have no ethnic element to it whatsoever. All my urdu-speaking (muhajir) friends concur with me. This has nothing to do with urdu-speaking or muhajirs. If MQM wants to be recognized as a political entity, it has to prove that it does not preach violence and does not rule my city Karachi through fear by bandits, thugs and gangs. It must be remembered that urdu-speaking (muhajirs) are the most effected by MQM’s violent tactics. So when one criticizes MQM, please do not think that its the criticism of urdu-speaking people. In a democracy anyone can be criticized. MQM’s criticism, by the way, is very well-deserved.
Spot on Admin!!! Let’s rise above this ethnicity nonsense and be “pro common sense”. I think we should be a bit more tolerant politically.
@admin
Well said!!! we are all Pakistani. this is the only ethnicity i belongs to.
@ Saqib
I agree with u bro.
Also our politicians and parties should give up to provoke people on their ethnicity just for the sake of votes.
Long Live Pakistan!!!
@ManDark
Exactly my point, brother
We need to distinguish between MQM and other urdu speaking people. Many are fed up by MQM just like you and your friends. The problem with MQM is that they try to hijack you jsut loving people into their propaganda business.
Keep up the good work:-)
/Saqib
good for you admin…lets all be gracious in our arguments.
I fully agree that we MUST not play ethnicity card. We are all Pakistanis, nothing more nothing less.
I don’t like the policies of criminal element of MQM. Sadly, top leadership of MQM is fully involved in these activities. I will keep on writing about criminals of MQM and also those Munafaqeen who pretend that they don’t support MQM but their statement is in a way supporting them. I keep on mentioning in my comments that I don’t mean sincere and honest supporters.
If pkpolitics still wants to ban me for that, I would WELCOME that ban because there is no point writing something that I don’t believe in. I could use that time on something that is more fruitful than writing bland comments.
Only those who say Sindhi/Punjabi/Pathan/Mohajir etc are to blame as a nation should be banned.
@ Optimist
Your point of view about the Political party u just mentioned is not based on ethnicity and your views are genuine and radical.
Don’t stop writing comments here please because I believe you have the most sensible comments on this website along with a few more people and I am becoming a little fan of your comments
I would just like to say that ethnicity, identity and political party are different and everyone may have different degree of allegiance to each of these , with some overlap.
I agree with pretty much all that is said in the article (oddly enough) but I must say that one has (or should have) the right to discuss the policies of a political party. I think MQM supporters (and opponents) mix up the ethnic past that MQM has. Some people just don’t believe that it is not an ethnic party anymore juxt cuz it doesn’t use the word muhajir. After all, they started the use of the term in terms of defining their own identity (the MQM’s)
In this regard, I am with Optimist. MQM, like any other party should be criticized as it is part of the mainstream politics of pakistan and it’s policies affect pakistani and sindhi (for now) politics.
In a way, this is a compliment, MQM being treated just like any other political party. But it has obligations to the Pakistani people. It must refrain from using violence and intimidation of opponents and constituents to gain political power. Being middle class or most educated or non-wadera is not a license to terrorize people (just my opinion). And this goes for all parties.
@ Adil
thanks for the encouragement
I agree with Admin’s comments 100%. People bringing ethnicity ahead of national and muslim (as well as the non-muslim fellows) constitution of Pakistan are doing the highest dis-service to the country and their own provinces. Unity is strength and we should learn to resolve our issues together.
Let’s not get deluded: a poor person is a poor person regardless of which province he hails from. The oppressed suffers from problems may it be at the hands of waderas in the rural Punjab, some tribal head in NWFP, the feudal lord in Sindh or some warlord in balochistan who does not want his masses to get educated. Anyone tortured by Altaf bhaii won’t remember his ethnicity either at that time.
If we stop worshipping icons and get focused at the issues, not only we can resolve our problems but we can grab our leaders by their necks as well and force them in the right direction.
Long Live Islam, Long Live Pakistan.
@ Ajnabi Larki
You are blaming Taba’n Khamosh. He has something to offer. Whereas you only say: ‘Mein to kahti hoon sab Canada Aa Jaoo. Yehaan sab accha hai’.
If I had only that much to say, I would be hiding in a quilt, not coming here and commenting to serious issues.
On @Admin ,,,,,
Hear Hear
There was one specific individual who has repeated referred people of KHI as “treacherous” and label them “Mush supporters” because the SOB(Mush) is Urdu speaking . This was completely unjust and uncalled for. We really need to refrain from this type of language when posting comments on any site. Especially, when we are not aware of the ground realities and are purely speculating.
I do agree that we should continue to write, criticize, praise based on facts and not on some make-belief stories. Just my opinion.
Writing against Racist parties is the biggest support to a Plural Pakistan.
See what Kuldip Nayyar was told by MQM when he visited Karachi (he writes about rigging/ attitude of MQM leadership towards other races etc)
http://www.express.com.pk/
@ ajnabi “larki” : ham malaNg log haiN jis Khush naSeeb ko gaali daetay haiN us ka jeevan saphal kar daetay haiN
Also, you being in Canada and all, you should be careful regarding “false advertising” laws. I mean really, with your hubby serving in civil service under Zia in the 80′s, is the above nick justified? LOL But then again, I opine a lot and call myself “taban khamosh” …
I’m juss sayin’
I fully agree with Admin. It’s time to take a notice. I have been advocating all along for civility and self restraint on various issues. We should abndon the policies of devisiveness. Too much is at stake. We all have our opinions and views that we should express sensibly.
Let us all unite and prove to the world that we are kind, compassionate and civilized.
@Optimist: “Writing against Racist parties is the biggest support to a Plural Pakistan.”
Couldn’t agree more!
P.S. do u have the link to Kuldip Nayyar’s article? thx.
@ Taba’n Khamosh
‘It is understandable that locals would want outsiders to integrate with them, learn the language and adopt local habits and values. Outsiders are expected to do so because otherwise they continue to have their own state within the state. One example in Pakistan is that of the Urdu-speaking population (MQM) at Karachi. I recall that when they took me to their area many years ago, they proudly said that they did not learn Sindhi, nor favoured inter-community marriage. Such an attitude annoys the hosts because it betrays a sectarian attitude on the part of migrants.
The spirit of tolerance is what is sustaining India’s pluralistic society. This is the glue that should never be allowed to go dry. I fear regionalism rising in Pakistan. This will weaken the federation, and country itself. The country is going through anxious times. But its leaders should remember what Jawaharlal Nehru said about his own country: “Who dies if India lives and who lives if India dies?”’
http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=24603
Urdu translation of this article is available in Todays Daily Express (go to editorial page)
http://www.express.com.pk
Well, the vast majority of Pakistani’s are non-biased patriots and reject ethnicity and are proud to be Pakistanis. Needless to mention, your (admn’s) comments make sense.
I have a strong feeling that people from MQM probably complained, as most of them beleive in guns and may not be capable of carrying an intelligent discussion. Would MQM be classified as an ethnic group? or its just a political party? Would calling them a cult or Mafia be against forum rules? It is just my opinion that they are a terrorist organisation, and should be on the International watch list of terrorist organisations. Now again, I may be wrong, but thats just my opinion, The May 12th, 2007 incident is the most recent example when the City of Karachi was taken hostage by them with the marching orders coming directly from a funny sounding individual Altaf Hussain whom they call a “Bhai” and was passed thru to the Gang by the Chief Minister of Sindh. “Bhai” is a word commonly used in Hindi movies for “Don”. Now I know that since I do watch hindi movies. Just wanted to clarify for most Pakistani’s what a “Bhai” meant in MQM context, in case they did not watch Bollywood movies.
Most adults subscribe to Political forums as this one, and they sould be able to speak their mind. However, vulgarity etc. should not be tolerated.
nice word from admin!!!! bus ye kehna tha kay mujhay bhi iss wite ka pata Yahoo news say challa tha. I thk the report was from AP..
btw admin “BUS KER AWARDS” from geo, kab upload kerein gai!!!
@ tabann khamoosh
@ optimist
i wish if i have that much extra time to teach ppl like u both. it is not necessary to act like aristotle in every forum. success has no reason and failure has thousands, as u both have.
and optimist , if tabann khamoosh has something to offer like ……………………………… or ——————-, as he usually do, then u must accept it, its all for u.
you two are completely irrationale and have no manners to attend any forum or talking to ladies.
Allah ka karamm hay, hmaray leeye to pakistan bhee canada he hay, jidharr bhee rhein, uss kee rehmatt hay.
@ajnabi larki
lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz , leave them ajnabi larki, some ppl have desperate to find any forum to vent their defeated ideas and futile activism.
i hope the website admin must take notice of these 2 ppls i.e., tabann khamoosh and optimist.
as on every topic , these two have created a mess of insulting remarks and usage low grade language is their hallmark.
I REQUEST ADMIN TO BAN THESE TWO TO PRESERVE THE SANCITITY OF THE WESBITE AND RESPECT OF OTHER USERS. i agree with ajnabi larki that tabann khamoosh is pioneer of GALEYAAN on this website.
@ ajnabi larki and lonely bird ( both from same location in canada, probably same home, and same computer and same IP)
I agree with ur request to admin to ban 2 people.
i just disagree slightly ..who shud b banned..
how abt ban on people using different IDs from same IP and then praising each other?
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