The only question i will ask AZ you are demanding UN to investigate BN murder will you also demand UN investigation of murtaza B murder too

and how you can allow your childerns to change their names from zardari to bhuto, i think its so sad

@Everyone,

I am going to clean most of the comments here. If you have got anything to say to political party, then please ask that in “Question Format”. Only educated questions are allowed.

The party supporter should remain focused on the question and answer that in appropriate way.

Thanks,

Admin

important
http://www.dhandli.com.pk/

u heard a slogan ;her ghar say buhtoo niklay ga tum kitanay buhtoo niklay ga;; u should understand now how he gave his children name of buhtoo,, ur second question is simple murtaza was killed by agencies not by bb r az.it is very eay to understand if u study the war of pppp and establishment.pppp want to give the rules to people of pakistan and establishment do not want this as now ex genralls excepts this.we must think in dept now

A question asked many times, but i want to ask it again and hope to get a very detailed answer. Mostly, people accuse PPP of the east pakistan imbroglio, especially their political opponents; my question is,

Q. As PPP is a democratic party and wants provincial autonomy, how come they refused to accept the results of 1970 elections. Why wasn’t power handed graciously to awami league? I know many books have been written on this tragedy, but many would like to know an ordinary PPP’s supporter.

Q. What is PPP’s view on feudalism in pakistan?

Q. IF u combine ZA, bhuttos rule and benazir bhutto’s tenure, as a prime minister, it piles up to be almost 11 years, can u list ta few development projects undertaken during these years?
thanks.

Zenith:

I don’t know too much about the PPP but I can try to answer.

Question 1 is a joke. Every single person & establishment in West Pakistan was partly responsible. If you remember there was a war.

Question 2: They are not anti-feudal. But they are pro workers rights.

Question 3: I don’t know all the development projects but I am sure they had their fair share. In any case, in Pakistan development projects do not mean much. You are making a PML (Q) argument. If people cannot afford Atta and sugar, bridges and motorways are not much use to them.

I am sure there are counter arguments to all of this, but this is just my opinion.

good answers i agree but
anwer3;they give people atom bobmb ,steel mill,new weapons for army,910000 army personal back,bb gave missile

My request to collective leadership of PPP:

Unless Shebaz Sharif & Ch. Nisar publicly apologize for buying the loyalties of elected members, PPP should not form government with the PMLN.

PPP can form government in Sindh without any help, NWFP with or without ANP, Baluchistan with help of independents and other groups, and Punjab with PMLQ.
Sharif bros. despite the mandate lack the political wisdom to co-exist.

@Jawad,

I also request PMLN not to work with PPP unless they announce that they will not work with MQM since MQM was bigger supporter of Musharraf than PMLQ on every single issue.

Secondly, PPP should apologize to PMLN as PPP sat with Watto and Chatta of PMLQ on the next day of elections and that gave impression that they want to join hands and make government in Punjab. Hamid Mir predicted in his article that Establishment will make Chatta led PPP government in Punjab.

@zenith
ill list my answer for other questions but ill try 2 answer no 3 1st

1st elected parliament, 1973 constitution,land reforms(cancled by other govts),
ban was lifted from trade union activities, education madae compulsory upo grade 8, ban on student unions lifted, $1 billion investment by private sector in electricity generation, restarted baluchistan textile mill(5000 people got job), got 60 f-16, cesorship law on press lifted,

2 new airports, end 2 load shading, 33000 lady health visiters, 1st time people of northern areas got right 2 vote, cabinate members forbiden from taking loans from pakistani banks, etc etc etc , if u want 2 know more just let me know, list wont finish(ofcourse it will finish, but there many other things i can list here , and these r those things which i think, still r big issues in pakistan, which we need 2 deal with)

@ 27122007

i believe no F-16s were inducted in Pakistan Air force in PPP govt.
can u recheck it??

@zenith
answer for ur question 2
it was ppp who brought land reforms, which cancld by other govts as i listed in previous comment too, if new govt can bring those reforms back, and other govts dont cancel them again, then feudalism will become history………

@zenith
i would agree with thehustler on no 1

Nawaz Shareef Gave Atom Bomb to the Nation in 1998,,, Nawaz Shareef have the credit to bravely conduct the tests…. Nobody had the courage to do that,,,even Nawaz Sharif was so much pressurized by the Americans

Will PPP be able to give Provinces the complete rights, Financial Autonomy?

@Jawad Raja and rasheed
dear bros pppp and pmln r 2 diff parties, adn surely they wont become 1 and they shoudnt as well, but right now both parties will have 2 work 2gethor in order 2 clean the acts of mush govt. once pakistan is on right track they can go in diff directions……… mqm is a big party in sindh no one can ignore it(thats diff thing taht how they got so many seats).. there r 2 options for pppp eitehr work with them, or donot(and use millitry in karachi to get rid of them, otherwise they wont let them govern sindh). if they go for 1st option they can use their influnce in next election and make sure mqm dont rig those elections as well. if they go for 2nd option, many inocnt people will also die and democratic govt cant kill innocent people like dictators

@alee
Wasn’t it NS who was PM at that time. I will also give him credit for conducting the nuclear testst. Who should else make the decision? In my opinion he did what was right at that time.

/Saqib

@ GM

well i might be wrong. ill try to find a good source 2 prove it, can u also search on internet? or other sources and get information about f-16 in pak airforce, when they got them 1st time.

take care

I’m not a ppp supporter but I really feel soory for it. They will get centre where nothing is good & the immediate will b raising the oil prices which is long due because caretaker did’t do it & all is accumulated to a huge sum. there are lawyres, muh apdm terrorismetc. they will get sindh but there is MQM there. they will give punjab to PML-N which is in win-win situation.

Dont know about Zardari.

But ZAB in his 7 years did.

1)Start nuclear program.
2)Pakistan steel mills.
3)Kamra aeronautical complex.
4)Wah arms factory.

MANY MORE.

@ 27122007

i think this topic had been discussed earlier in some other post.

In zia regime, abt 40 F-16 were given to pakistan .

later in post afghan war scenario, pakistan tried agin for more F-16s and payment was aslo made for that but as US had imposed sanctions, so Pakistan cud never get those F-16s .

Later, in 1997, when NS visited US, they agreed to give back money some how.

@I am not sure about those F-16 fighter, but I know that while the military has been at the helm of affairs i.e. dictatorship in Pakistan, then the Yankees has been a lot more supportive with military equipment than when we have had civilian rule. We have mostly seen sanctions during civilian rule.

/Saqib

In larger interest of our country,we need to support democratic forces like PPP and PML-N.These are parties of ppl not angels so they may have done wrongdoing during their eras but Its always Military rule that brings terrorism,weakness in federation,divide in nation and destruction of institution.If they(PPP PMLN) are marching ahead unitedly for better change,then they should be supported.Like what Justice (rtd) Tariq Mahmood,front leader of Wukla threek said :we should give breathing space to democratic political forces and support them because America and pakistani Establishment wants to create wreck into this bond bw two parties,so we need to be positive and lets support them.

As per independent Observers that NS and AZ policies and statments are mutual agreed upon policy f Batton and carrot so that togther they keep busy establishment till they get into powers.Let’s be positive and support this Alliance and they are only HOPE now.Like we all supported Lawyer Movement,we support their Alliance and give them some time,dont be panic on statments,wait and we will get results.

We should not get ourselves drown by Propagenda leashed by Agencies and Americans,We need unity in ranks and positive critcism.Bury th haterd and abusive past,lets build a new Pkistan of tolerance,Peace,Brotherhood and above all JUSTCE!!

@ all
Iam not a PPP supporter, infact i disagree with many of PPP’s principles, but I agree that any democratic party is way better than dictatorship, but the famous sentence that” Anyone going to east pakistan will not have legs to stand upon” such a sentence from a leader of the stature of ZA bhutto is very horrifying. Plz explain that why no candidate of the PPP stood for elections in east pakistan? The war followed right after the refusal of the establishment to hand over power to Awami league.My basic question is that PPP has always said that they stand for democracy , but why wasn’t the results of 71 accepted and than right after that ZA bhutto served as a civil martial law administrator. Bhutto sahab could have saved pakistan, just like BB could have, had she been alive. My father used to tell me that he always voted for ZA bhutto, as he was the only leader with a national appeal at that time, but I strongly disagree with this notion now, as he could have played some role to save pakistan, which many think wasn’t played.

Q. Why is PPP seen as pro american?

Q. Does PPP believe in the co-existence of feudalism and democracy? becasue my father is a close friend of Yousuf Raza gillani, and I had the opportunity to visit multan when he was the speaker of N.A and I saw the most astonishing examples of feudalism there, as people were uneducated, and treated like animals.

Q. Why does PPP want to leave a door open for musharraf, as ZA bhutto clearly pointed out in his book , if iam assasinated that dictator should not be compromised with. Dont you think that this is against ZA.B’s ideology.

@Mir Munsif
This discussion is not about political parties vs. army. This is a debate about ONLY political parties. I don’t think there is many here who would like to have a dictator at the helm of affairs.

/Saqib

@GM
pppp govt in 1989 paid for 60 f-16, but pak didnt got them.President Clinton and bb agreed that when us will sell those f-16s (produced for pakistan,) then will return money back to pakistan.in 1998 newzealan bought those f-16s and us compensated pak. tahts how NS got money back from US. so basically it was again effotrs OF BB in getting money back and not of NS.

@27122007
Do you really think it is a great effort to get Pakistans own money back AFTER 11 years? As far as I know both NS and BB tried their level best to get the money back, but the Yankees refused for a long time.

/Saqib

@ 27122007

i appreciate ur support for PPP but it wasnt like that.

infact US did not return money that way rather most of given in the form of wheat.

any way point was that pakistan cud not get those F-16s.

@Saqib,

Its not talk about Army but Alliances and supporting Alliances not targeting and abusing Politcial parties.Even Justice (rtd) tariq Mahmood,EItzaz Ihsan and large part of nation support PPP an PMLN.Because positivism needed here not HATE talks and abuse politics over PPP.

@Mir Munsif
Have you heard of freedom of speech? This is our right in a true democracy. If I feel a politician or a party is doing or will do something wrong then it is my right and duty to speak against it. I hope you understand that!

/Saqib

@GM
326.9million in cash, $60 million worth wheat, and i dont know about other $80 million .

@Saqib
dont u think it was great effort? if it wasnt then y did it take so many years? i just hope that if pppp and pmln keep working 2gether as they r doing now, we will sooner or after be in position that we wont need to look towards us for help.

@Saqib,

Using that freedom of speech,I put my opinion.Do you freedom of speech has also some limits.When you ask Denamrk ased News paper publishing anti Islam Artciles they also use the same word in the name of FREEDOM of speech.

These parties are not sacred but we should give them some breathing space and support their alliance rather using hate and abusive tactics.They are not yet in Power agan they are united for better change,they are facing strong and powerful Establishment and US pressure,we should not be part of hate compaign but rather be supportive to them.Weakening of Allaince or PPP or PMLN is not in favour of Pakistan.

Rest assured,every one has right to be suporrtive to this Alliance,PPP etc or party with Establismnt by abusing PPP etc.CHoice is urs.

I have managed to find a report by PPP official in which they have exposed MQM election day rigging in great details, follow the link below…

http://politicallyspeakin.blogspot.com/

@Mir Munsif

Please don’t mix up thingss. The publishing of the cartoons is totally a different story. Those hypocrites from the Danish Newspaper JP, Politiken and many more basically are working according to another plan than freedom of speech. It is rather freedom to abuse. If they really wanted to show freedom of speech they would also have shown cartoons of jews published in an Iranían paper. Initilally JP informed that they would publish those cartoons the same day as the Iranian newspaper, but later they retreated from that commitment. They never published those jewish cartoons. I am not happy about Muslim violence. They should opt for peaceful means to show their views. The best way would be to totally ignore those idiots.

I agree that these parties should not be sacred, but they should not have breathing space as long as they do not make a CLEAR stand. As far as i know NS has a clear stand, but the sam cannot be said about PPPP. Until it happens they must feel the heat.

/Saqib

FYI, guys I have changed my nick from alee to this new one.

@Saqib,

I respect your personal interest of any party but keeping in view your interest,NS said today that PPP and PMLN have complete accord on all issues and they are very clear about strategy.It is batton and carrot policy.AZ needs support of NS and so does NS.

Main raza Rabbani said today that two parties have same agenda on main issues but they are workin on strategies to dliver and resolve these issues.

Fakhar uddin G ibrahim Prominent lawyer today with AZ and both discussed on mechanics of issue resolution.Asma Jahnghir has also called upon AZ and they also discussed solution.AZ is seeking support rom all ke lawyers for better solution.He is not just word buster but he is sincerly working and tomorrow PPP and PMLN are goin to have combined Press Cnference.

I repeat again,PPP has always been traget of illicit cmpaign of propagenda by Establishment forces.But This is high time,Nation should stand by and support Alliance rather countin on more division in nation.

@alee: Thx bro. Seems like very useful info but I really wish they would format it properly instead of one giant paragraph that goes on for 20 pages… Seems like it was very extensive rigging.

First such detailed account that I have seen so far. Too bad it is really hard to read and blogger has been banned in Pakistan anyway.

@Mir Munsif
This is NOT about creating division. That is not my mission. This is about holding politicians comitted to true democratic values.

/Saqib

Yes I agree, I believe the nation should have faith in people they have voted for, the problem is our Media, we are not used to it and the media is feeding these news every hour 24/7 and we are all becoming impatient and losing our cool, we should wait, it will take time & they should take their time.

In my opinion, PML-N & PPP should form Govt in the Capital also, PML-N cannot leave PPP alone, this will be the first step towards going apart.

This is my opinion & it can be wrong

“blogger has been banned in Pakistan anyway.”

What?

@Taban

I am sorry I will ask the owner to format it a bit, Bro this is only done in Karachi I have been promised that I’ll get a list of every city…

But let me tell you, these are from PPP side, so anybody from any other party can deny the allegations. And I will post a report from any other party if I’ll get one from them.

I am trying to get a little more on this from other sides also, so that it becomes more transparent.

Cheers,,,

@Ali rizvi,

I agree you completely.and This impatience some times shadows our mind and thoughts.Political Parties dont have Magic stick to reform every thing in minutes or days,Its Histroic gestures that two biggest parties are united for just cause and there requires some time to finalize issues and strategies,even Parliment havent been called and these issues would be resolved in Parliment so we should be patient.

I strongly support this Alliance and they have matured politicians in their ranks and they can sort out problems amicably.PPP is clear on every issue but its seems workin on strategy and hopfully within days,when Parliament meets,hopefully we will see a better change.

Dear All,

Visit Following link for Dhandli update in Elections.Its Interesting.

http://www.dhandli.com.pk/list_districtcomplains.asp?show=1

birathar, blogspot.com is banned in pakistan this is what he is saying

“chewwrrrrrruuunnnn khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa llllayooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!”

@Mir Munsif

Well they don’t have any other way, do they? They have to work for their voters and Mandate they are talking about, They’ve got their work cutout.

This is the Last time they are elected, if don’t perform according to their Mandates, which I hope and wish isn’t the case.

so one word my friends, ‘Patience’.
It has happened, now let’s wait a little more…

And yes one more thing, I’ve been reading all the comments, their have been very harsh exchange of ethnic comments, I guess we should all take a little responsibility and let’s not start this Fire, it will only spread hatred. There’s a lot on stake my friends.

Please let this leadership handle the mess which has already being created, let’s not create some extra work for them.

@Ali Rizvi,

I agree your point of views.1.Patience and support of this Alliance. 2.We are already divided as nation,indeed we are NOT behaving as nation but crowd.Ethenicity is also sensitive issue and every one shouldbe respected.I am Sindhi Pakistan,I love Pakistan,I stayed most part of life in Karachi and I have many good friends from every province and Urdu Speaking friends.We need to respect each other and all urdu speakings are NOT of MQM-a Mafia Orgaisation.PPP,PMLN,JI wins seats from Karachi a well.Any ways,my conclusion is to support PPP and PMLN alliance and have patience.

@Chooran

Blogger is working….It is not banned. Sometimes it gets really slow.

@Mir Munsif

Thanks Brother, for supporting my point of view.

oh bina teer bijaan ulle uchey dushman thui ubo…….JEAY JEAY ……..JEAY BHUTTO BENAZIR ……

@Zenith
____________
Q. As PPP is a democratic party and wants provincial autonomy, how come they refused to accept the results of 1970 elections. Why wasn’t power handed graciously to awami league? I know many books have been written on this tragedy, but many would like to know an ordinary PPP’s supporter.
____________

Suni sunae batoon par nahin jatee dude.

Can you quote a reference.

This is only the propaganda of the Establishment and the political orphans likes Ch Shujaat and Ejaz ul Haq against the largest pro people party in Pakistan and its founder Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto.

PPP never refused to accept the results of the elections of 1970(not 1971). What it wanted was that the two largest parties i e Awami League and PPP should sit together and discuss the modalities just like PPP and PMLN are doing today. At that time there were even more serious challenges to the federation than today like framing of a constitution acceptable to both wings. And more over it was Gen Yahya and the military junta who were to hand over the power and not ZAB . So they are the ones responsible for the tragedy.

@commoner
I am not a PPPP supporter, but I think you are right. The military created the problems and later tried to blame ZAB. One can say that it was paytime for all the atrocities the army had committed in East-Pakistan against our brothers and sisters. The easy way out of humiliation was to blame somebody else.

/Saqib

@zenith
_____________
Q. What is PPP’s view on feudalism in pakistan?
_____________

DO you precisely know what feudalism it?
Are you sure you are not talking about the feudal mentality or land holding.
PPP being a political party believes in gradual decrease of maximum permisible land holding.
It undertaken land reforms twice and has decreased the amount of maximum land holding. It has also distributed govt land among the landless tillers.

Are you an MQM supporter or just an impressionable individual, just curious, these days feudalism is their favourite mantra.

Dear All,

It is historic day in the history of our nation,PPP hosted to day a joint conference with PMLN and ANP.They showed their strength and promised to lodge reforms for better Pakistan.Well done AZ and team!!

@zenith
___________
Q. IF u combine ZA, bhuttos rule and benazir bhutto’s tenure, as a prime minister, it piles up to be almost 11 years, can u list ta few development projects undertaken during these years?
thanks.
____________

Now this is the most difficult question. Any way I try:

- Pakistan’s first Steel Mill
- a second Port - Port Qasim
- commissioning of Pakistan’s first hydro electric dam on the mighty Indus at Tarbela.
- Pakistan was made self sufficient in the filed of fertilizers, sugar, and cement.
- Pakistan’s Nuclear Programme-Kahuta project
- Electrical Mechanical Complex at Wah
- The Aeronautic Complex at Kamrah
- Karakorum Highway
- Indigenous Missile program
and much more

Feudalism is always supported by Military Junta,I am basically from Interior Sindh,during last Eight years of MUSH rule,all bogus and noterious feudals were brought into action against PPP.Establishment supported them and even Nazim of Larkana were feudal and was from PMLQ.Establishment played dirty tricks to side line popular PPP support bank by partying with Notorious feudals (All Nazims etc) plus MQM-mafia outfit in urban Sindh.

There are many Middle class MPAs in PPP t and they have won election against PMLQ notorious Feudals.Only difference the feudal in PPP and other party is that even a small level worker can hold accountable a Feudal Leader in Party for his actions before Central Leadership.

@zenith
___________
Q. IF u combine ZA, bhuttos rule and benazir bhutto’s tenure, as a prime minister, it piles up to be almost 11 years, can u list ta few development projects undertaken during these years?
thanks.
____________

Few more to add:
1-Creation of Job opportunites in overseas countries.
2-Indus High way.
3-Keeti bandar project-Gawader like project on shore of Thatta.
4-woman bank and woman police.
5-Mega Power project.
6-Industrial liasion with Muslim countries and Western world.
7-All shaikh zaid development prgs intiated by UAE government in Pakistan were actually result of ZA bhutto’s efforts to convince world Muslim leaders.Oil refineries etc.

why pppp leaders and workers always killed by establishment not other parties?

@shameed51

PPP is the only genuine anti-establishment party. Most People won’t even remember the shuhda of Sakrand and Khairpur from PPP for the cause of Democracy.

In recent examples, 12th May, 17th July, 18 October, 27 December, 17 Feb. You know what was common in these suicide attacks. They are not against PML Q but against PPP!

The only party who has been victim of suicide attacks is ANP with one incident killing about 20 people during their election campaign.

@ commomner

i guess Karakoram highway as started in Ayub time in 1960s and was completed in Zia time in 1986.

@ Munsif

Indus highway idea feasibility was done before PPP first govt (that started in december 1988), project is still ongoing , though major work has been completed.

anyone knows about about MRD? what was role of ppp in MRD? i couldnt find anything on internet about MRD.

i mean i couldnt find any detaild information on internet.

where is my comment about MRD?

@GM

Indus highway and bypasses in sindh were the cheapest alternative to extra-ordinarily expensive Motorway projects carried out in PML N governments.

I remember and am witness of the best quality and speedy construction roads (bypasses especially) ever made in Sindh during PPP government.

I would like to few more developmental projects carried out in PPP governments.

The first fiber optic cable at least in sub-continent was installed in Pakistan. Through which Pakistan became the first country in the same region to enjoy world wide web.

Built a Satellite Station connecting Skardu, Gilgit and Gawadur with Islamabad.

Microwave channel was built to connect Karachi and Peshawar

Introduced cellular telephones, digital pager, satellite dish and FM Radio

The media for the very first time was given freedom (though unfortunately partial) in the times of PPP and first ever private TV channel license was granted.

Press laws aimed at censorship lifted.

Journalists terminated from service during Martial Law regime were reinstated.

No objection certificate for journalists to travel abroad was abolished.

Employees of Radio and Television were reinstated.

Ghazi Brotha and Neelam Jhelum projects (1 thousand Mega Watts) were initiated.

To overcome the energy problem an agreement was signed with China for the supply of a 300 MW nuclear Power Plant.

Millat Tractors was extended and its productivity increased from 12000 tractors per year to 18000 tractors per year.

A new plant of Suzuki Cars was constructed.

Rupees 3.88 billion petrochemical project started.

An assembly plant of Toyota Hi Ace, Jeeps and Cars was started.

Loan facilities were extended for establishing small industrial units.

Limits for investment without government approval, was increased.

Two Frigates were handed over to Pakistan Navy.

Pakistan started indigenous aircraft production.

New sophisticated radar system started operation.

Construction of Akra Dam providing safe drinking water to the coastal regions of Mehran.

Agosta submarines for the Pakistan Navy.

Tanks for the Army.

Private Sector power plant HUBCO

From a dismal growth rate of 2.3% in 1992-93 which it inherited, the PPP government raised the economic growth to 5.2% in 1995-96. The growth rate plunged to 3. I % in 1996-97 after the removal of PPP government, a figure further lowered to 1.3% in the budget.

and many others!

mrd is group of foolish people but sincere also

@27122007

Movement for the restoration of Democracy formed in 6th Feb 1981, was the movement against the dictatorship of Zia by most of the political parties of that time. MRD coalition comprisied of Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP), National Democratic Party, Tehrik-e-Istaqlal, Pakistan Muslim League, Qaumi Mahaz-e-Azadi, Pakistan Mazdoor Kissan Party, Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Islam, (Pakhtoonwa); MRD demanded withdrawal of martial law and immediate elections. Later on in 1985, PML and JI contested in the polls conducted by 1985 while all other parties boycotted them.

This movements was centered in Sindh. The shuhada of Sakrand and Khairpur are the martyrs of MRD for the democracy in this country. This was being lead by the Pakistan’s peoples Party.

In oredr to suppress this movement, Zia and Military Junta despite of ban in the political activities formed Muhajir Qaumi movement and incited the ethnic rift in the province of Sindh.

Many people especially from Sindh, were murdered, prisoned, tortured due to their support for MRD.

@shameed51 and Fahim23 thanks for ur views and information.

dear Fahim23 do u know any book? writen on that topic.

@27122007

There is not any specific book on MRD in my mind, but its pretty much detailed history is mentioned in various books like

1- Autobiography of Mohtarma BB
2- Take any book on Zia
3- or Nawabzada Nasrullah Khan, etc

@Zenith

Please give me the quotation if you can when did ZA Bhutto said:

“Jo east pakistan jayega men us ki tangein tor doon ga”

I’m sure this is what you have heard from Establishment propaganda!

@ Fahim 23
“Jo east pakistan jayega men us ki tangein tor doon ga”
This senetence is the urdu translation of the sentence, ” Whosoever goes there will not havelegs to stand on”
My point is not to prove wether he said it or not. The point is WHY DIDN’T HE ACCEPT THE RESULTS LIKE A THOROUGH GENTLEMAN THAT HE WAS? A leader of his stature completely alienated half of pakistan. The establishment was evil, agreed, but why didn’t he , as i said earlier with all his mastery and illustriousness and forceful personality, do something to rectify the situation? PPP didn’t even have a single candidate in east pakistan that was numerically superior. Why?

During his rule he served as a civil martial law administrator and as a prime minister ordered a brutal operation in balochistan. The hatred in west pakistan especially in south against the north was alarmingly high during his rule? why?

Another question is why is PPP considered pro-american?

@ commoner
I am not a MQM supporter, if u see in MQM section I have asked many questions , but didn’t get satisfactory answers and many of my questions were not even bothered to be answered and plz dont start guessing that I might be Nawaz league, but I do admire his stand and not his dictatorial tendency, which i hope vanishes soon.
Anyways, u were saying about feudalism. It is the combination of mentality and subsequently the practice induced by such mentality. Many of the PPP big guns I know of are feudals and their people are illiterate and subservient to them as if they are gods and all of them call them Pir sahab, as if they are devoid of any evil. As i mentioned before personally know them and their children and I must confess never had the audacity to ask them directly, but what enrages me is the fact that when people with sensibilty refuse to admit it and term it the love of the people. Why don’t they educate the people of their constituency, while their own children are educated in the best institutions? And all the nice things u have mentioned that took place during PPP’s rule, has an one of them yielded anything? If so, why r having scarcity of literally everything everywhere? Because if the foundations were so fantastically laid, they shouldn’t be a problem of this magnitude being faced today.

pppp should also keep in mind the incident of 12th may in refrence to make govt with mqm

@Zenith

First I would comment on this famous sentence massively and shamelessly propagated by establishment against ZAB and so often heard by you and me.

“Whosoever goes there will not havelegs to stand on”

ZAB never said that. He infact said:

—————————————————————————————————-
“The Crisis : Two Alternatives” Public Meeting, Lahore, February 28, 1971

Source for complete speech: http://www.bhutto.org/70Speeches/Speech-33.htm

“If they rubber stamp the Awami League’s draft constitution they will have no leg to stand upon on their return to their respective constituencies here. ”
—————————————————————————————————-

Does it in anyway sound to you that Bhutto said: Jo east pakistan jayega men us ki tangein tor doon ga???

To understand the situation clearer, I will quote you a paragraph of his speech in which he is allegedly said to have said that!

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“I have kept the door open for negotiations and am prepared to go to Dacca if the necessary assurance is given to me that my point of view along with reasonable suggestions would be considered dispassionately. This assurance, if given by the Awami League, would be considered by the Central Committee of my party and if it agrees we shall participate in the session. But in the present circumstances how can PPP members attend the National Assembly session? If they go there and abstain what good will that do? If they rubber stamp the Awami League’s draft constitution they will have no leg to stand upon on their return to their respective constituencies here. Voting for the Awami League draft constitution will be like breaking the backbone of our national integrity. It will not be allowed. If the National Assembly meets on 3rd March my party will launch a campaign of protest.”
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PPP and Bhutto have been victims of unprecedented villification. He was accused of being Kafir, Hindu, Drunk, Indian National, anti-pakistan. The press of his time controlled by handful capitalist and industrialist were his bitter enemies because of his nationalization policy. And I am sure you know that the biggest corporation in out country is Military!

When he was executed, Establishment took his nude pictures in hope to prove that he was not circumcized and display the pictures in public. But they were disappointed, as he was.

@Zenith

Your second question, “Another question is why is PPP considered pro-american?”

This in fact is only true for recent times, it does not apply to PPP’s overall history. In fact PPP from its genesis have been considered anti-american policy, as Shaheed ZAB was strongly against Capitalism and Imperialism.

However, since 9/11, as the USA has shifted its policy of supporting right-wing religious fractions (KSA, Oman, Jordan) or dictators in muslim countries (Saddam, Hoseni mubarak, etc) to support moderate forces. PPP in case of Pakistan naturallay has been the best choice for USA. Beside, Mohtarma Shaheed has spent most of her time West lecturing and explaining her point of view to USA which is pro-democratic.

Though, PML N is not supposed to be discussed here, but I think it is quite relavent to point out that, among two main stream political parties of Pakistan PPP and PML N, why later is being avoided has following reasons in my opinion.

It is due to inclination of NS’s in:

1- Tableeghee Jamiat: NS’s involvement in Raiwand and tableeghee jamait which is being perceived as doctrinating tool of extremism

2- Millitary-Mullah Nexus: NS has been very close with Zia’s military regime and idealogically close with religious parties, JI and JUI. As the public perception in west is currently to support democratic forces, they have not been able to project themselves rightly.

Regards

@Zenith

I am presenting here, numerous quotes (rarely infact never quoted) from different speeches made by ZAB, highlighting his efforts for the reconcilliation and keeping the country united. And also proving the point that he whole-heartedly accepted the mandate of Mujeeb as a democratic gentleman.

I hope they will also help you to understand that the real culprits were those who actually hold the power and were not willing to transfer it to the people, and due to constant exploitation of west pakistan mujeeb was very vulnerable to show any flexibility and was being exploited by our neighbouring countries.

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“Thanking the Voters”: Public address outside the Assembly Chambers, Lahore, December 12, 1970

“I congratulate Sheikh Mujibur-Rahman. We respect the majority. East-West parity no longer exists. We recognise the principle of majority under accepted democratic traditions. But we must also take into account many other factors. Both Punjab and Sindh are centres of power. We may or may not form a government at the Centre but the keys of the Punjab Assembly Chambers are in my pocket. In one of my pockets lie the keys of the Sindh Assembly and in the other those of the Punjab Assembly. No central government can run without our co-operation. Any constitution will have to provide maximum autonomy for the provinces. One Unit is finished. All the provinces will get autonomy.”

“Deadlock on the Constitution”: The Punjab University New Campus, Lahore, February 22: 1971

“Since the Awami League calls the Six Points the basis of the constitution, no room is left for any compromise whatsoever on that stand. On top of it, a time limit of 120 days has been fixed for constitution-making. Is it not better not to hold the National Assembly session until these problems are resolved outside the Assembly?”

“Sheikh Mujib quotes me as saying that if need be I would again go to Dacca for talks. Well, I am prepared for two, three or even ten rounds of talks. I am prepared to go to Dacca, to Chittagong. Or anywhere Sheikh Sahib wants me to go. There is still time for a rapprochement. Had there been a clean slate, a clean paper, an unwritten document before us, we would certainly have participated in the Assembly. But now, as things stand today, if we attend the Assembly and there is a deadlock, what explanation will we have for the people of West Pakistan? You yourselves will criticize us for attending the Assembly in the absence of an understanding on Six Points. If the majority party frames a constitution, to the exclusion of our views, you will accuse us of betrayal.”

“The People’s Party is on record as having recognized the fact that the people of East Pakistan have been exploited. It is enshrined in our manifesto. Both East and West Pakistan have been the victims of exploitation. If we have the same destiny, then why this rigidity in our stands? The interests of East Pakistan are ours also, because East Pakistan is the majority province of our country. A great majority of Pakistanis live there. If they say “Joi Bangla” we also say “Joi Bangla,” for that is a part of Pakistan. We have great respect for the people of East Pakistan just as we have for the people of the Punjab, NWFP, Baluchistan’ and Sind. Their interests are our interests. But it is painful that slogans based on provincial prejudices are raised. Why do they not raise slogans for the whole of Pakistan?”

“We want a constitution, not a deadlock. We would have participated in the framing of the constitution had it not been already written on the basis of Six Points and had there been no limit of 120 days. It would have been another matter if this one were the first Constituent Assembly.”

“In both parts of the country only the people have emerged victorious. That is why we avoided a confrontation. In fact, we kept retreating. It is necessary for one of the two sides to do so in order to avoid a confrontation. We did not play up our differences. We went to East Pakistan to explain our stand. I held conferences with my colleagues in Lahore, Multan and Karachi. We retreated so much that people began to ask what had happened to Bhutto. But it is regrettable that Sheikh Mujib remained rigid. Those politicians who had lost even their securities in the elections made a beeline for Dacca. The Sheikh then thought that he had succeeded in his mission. The President of Pakistan went to Dacca and announced that Mujib would be the Prime Minister of the country. Both said they had had satisfactory talks, so it was presumed that the constitution had virtually been framed. But we have a duty to those millions who elected us. Their views on the constitution have to be heard and taken into account before it is finalised. We shall try our best to live up to the expectations of the people. We have regard and respect for all. Let the newspapermen take note of it. If any of them misreports, please remember others have heard me and can bear witness.”

“The Crisis : Two Alternatives”: Public Meeting, Lahore, February 28, 1971

*Highly recommended*
http://www.bhutto.org/70Speeches/Speech-33.htm

“I propose two alternatives to resolve the present crisis—postponement of the National Assembly session or removal of the 120 day time limit for the Assembly to frame a constitution. If either of these alternatives is accepted, I shall go to Dacca tomorrow to meet Sheikh Mujibur Rahman to resolve the pre-session deadlock.”

“I have never opposed the Six Points, although the programme was not acceptable to me personally. However, we narrowed down our disagreement to foreign trade. and foreign aid which cannot be entrusted to the provincial governments.”

“I refute the allegation leveled by Sheikh Mujibur Rahman that I have been conspiring to create impediments in the transfer of power. This allegation is a lie. It is unimaginable that I could be in league with bureaucrats or the capitalists or the regime, or any foreign power, because all of them have shown consistent hostility to the People’s Party.”

“The Six Points were made known by Sheikh Mujib at the then opposition parties’ national convention in Lahore in 1966 for the first time. The leaders who participated in that convention had rejected them outright.”

“As Foreign Minister I had advised President Ayub Khan to tackle Six Points on the political level as they contained the seeds for serious differences between the two wings of the country. I had urged him to find a solution acceptable to East Pakistan. But, he ignored my advice and, instead of using political language, threatened to use the “language of weapons.”

“The People’s Party is the only party which accepted that East Pakistan had been exploited. But the exploitation has not been confined to East Pakistan alone. The people of West Pakistan have suffered equally on that account. They are equally poor and down-trodden, and the workers, peasants and intellectuals of West Pakistan have suffered at the hands of exploiters who are common to both wings.”

“People today are talking of the interests of Bengal, Punjab. Sind, Frontier and Baluchistan. But nobody talks of Pakistan which has to be made an Islamic Socialist Republic. In case the country is divided into five separate states, how viable would they be, and would they constitute the Pakistan for which the people of all these areas fought under Quaid-i-Azam? A clear cut answer is called for.”

“East Pakistani leaders wanted a federal constitution for the country and the PPP agreed to it. But in that case the federal constitution must be endorsed by each federating unit. It is being suggested that the PPP should accept the normal democratic procedure and debate the constitution on the floor of the House. But it should not be forgotten that an extraordinary situation has arisen because the Awami League has already drafted a Six Point constitution and wants the Assembly to rubber-stamp it. And at the same time a 120 day limit has been imposed for the framing of the constitution. I have never rejected Six Points because I wanted to discuss them with the Awami League. I have refrained from indulging in personal attacks as other leaders in West Pakistan have not done. It is unfortunate that the leaders of East Pakistan have leveled allegations against me. I had suggested a political dialogue on the Six Points as I wanted to avoid a deadlock in the National Assembly because if it occurred the country would face an extremely grave crisis.”

“I have never talked of a “strong Centre” as I believe that it was because of a strong Centre that East Pakistan suffered ‘exploitation. We want an effective Centre although with the minimum number of subjects. This is in the interest of the country. It is being suggested that the Centre should only be responsible for defence and foreign affairs, and that foreign trade and foreign aid should be under the provinces. I wonder how the defence of the country can be managed and an independent foreign policy pursued without the Centre having control over foreign trade and aid. Without trade and aid being federal subjects Pakistan would not be able to survive as one country.”

“It has been pleaded that the two wings of the country have two separate economies. It has been subsequently maintained that their politics is different too. And, finally, it has been suggested that they should have two separate constitutions. If Pakistan is one country it must have one integrated constitution. One document containing two different constitutions for East and West Wings would be an oddity, which would not be acceptable to the people.”

“I cannot even dream of insulting East Pakistan where the majority of the population of the country lives. In fact, the people of West Pakistan felt insulted when the Prime Minister-to-be of the country refused to visit their half of the land.”

“I have kept the door open for negotiations and am prepared to go to Dacca if the necessary assurance is given to me that my point of view along with reasonable suggestions would be considered dispassionately. This assurance, if given by the Awami League, would be considered by the Central Committee of my party and if it agrees we shall participate in the session. But in the present circumstances how can PPP members attend the National Assembly session? If they go there and abstain what good will that do? If they rubber stamp the Awami League’s draft constitution they will have no leg to stand upon on their return to their respective constituencies here. Voting for the Awami League draft constitution will be like breaking the backbone of our national integrity. It will not be allowed. If the National Assembly meets on 3rd March my party will launch a campaign of protest.”

“The other alternative is the postponement of the Assembly session scheduled to be held on 3rd March. If that is accepted it would give me time to discuss the constitutional issues with the Awami League. In that case, I would not lose a minute to go to East Pakistan to have a dialogue with my elder brother.”

“Yet another alternative is that the time limit of 120 days imposed on the National Assembly for the framing of the constitution should be removed. That would give ample opportunity to my party to debate fully the constitutional issues which have caused the present deadlock. If the time-limit is removed I would rush to Dacca tomorrow.”

Ready for Negotiations: Press Conference, Karachi, March 2, 1971

“And since partition, we were the first in West Pakistan to have candidly admitted in our foundation papers that the people of East Pakistan were unjustly treated and did not get their due share in the national economy.
God is our witness that all our efforts since the election have been directed to finding a solution to the constitutional problem which would not only right the injustices done to the people of East Pakistan in the past but also enable all the people of the nation to live in harmony.

We took the initiative of going to East Pakistan in search of an understanding with the Awami League so that a viable constitution could be framed. It has not been our attitude to reject the Six Points.

On the other hand, we have consistently endeavored to move as close to the Six Points as was logically and reasonably possible on the assumption that Pakistan would still remain a single nation.

There we did not demand a strong Centre, but only a federal Centre that would have the character of keeping the country a united federal state. We further manifested our bona fides by mass mobilisation of public opinion in West Pakistan in favour of a constitution as close to the Six Points formula as possible.

“Cable to Mujib”: March 9, 1971

“We are faced with a crisis of the gravest magnitude. The future of our country hangs in the balance. Both of us carry an extremely heavy responsibility and everything humanly possible must be done to avert the disaster that threatens us. It must be our common objective that Pakistan be saved and set on the road to peace and progress in which both wings of the country can play their full part.”

“I am prepared to visit Dacca again immediately to meet you and to devise a common solution to end the crisis that faces the country so that the Assembly can proceed with the framing of the constitution.”

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I am not saying that Bhutto didn’t have any part in Bangladesh, but certainly he is not solely responsible. His intentions were to keep Pakistan united, but he failed.

Thank you for your time.

Regards

@ Fahim 23
No doubt bhutto was victimised, and the real player behind everything was the US, but my point is that in the presence of a leader who had massive support in the length and breadth of west pakistan, how could a war in east pakistan have initiated? Didn’t PPP consider East Pakistan a part of pakistan. Why was operation search light allowed? Yes the establishment did everything to sabotage the dialogue between Awami league and PPP, but why wasn’t more flexibility shown by PPP? A true patriotic politician would sacrifice his career to keep the country intact and ZA bhutto was certainly one. Even during the operation why wasn’t any effort made to adhere to the demands of east pakistanis? You said that ZA bhutto was ready to go to dacca if his suggestion were considered, Sir when one is a leader of the people and one’scountry is on the verge of separation, one doesnot lay down conditions on the table. He should have gone there and convinced the leadership that he is willing to negotiate and that would have blotted out the game of the establishment. Do u know why people in other parts of pakistan, especially in punjab, began to vote for other people, because they felt that bhutto could have atleast made an effort to keep the federation intact.

The question about balochistan operation?

thanks.

@zenith

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No doubt bhutto was victimised, and the real player behind everything was the US
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Yes he was. But beware it was not US that was behind everything, it was the power hungery military which was mainly responsible for the break up of Pakistan, they were not ready to relinquish power even after 11 years of rule.

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in the presence of a leader who had massive support in the length and breadth of west pakistan, how could a war in east pakistan have initiated? Didn’t PPP consider East Pakistan a part of pakistan. Why was operation search light allowed?
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Did Mian Nawaz Sharif knew about the Kargil, was it launched with his permission, didnt he had a two third majority in the parliment at that time?
So why didnt he stop it before the final humiliation? And if a leader with such huge majority could not do anything what do you expect from Bhutto who was not even in power.

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Do u know why people in other parts of pakistan, especially in punjab, began to vote for other people, because they felt that bhutto could have atleast made an effort to keep the federation intact.
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This is the flimsiet arguement of all. I am a punjabi Pakistani and I know this is incorrect. Punjab has been subjected to unrelenting propoganda against Bhuttos and PPP by the military intelligence agencies. The Zia era (1977 to 1988) represents the rape of moderate ,democratic and progressive Pakistan. It produced a violent, perverted and authorotarion society. We lost likes of Faiz in the process. Waheed Murad and Nadeem were replaced by Sultan Rahi and Mustafa Qureshi,(it was difficult to make out the actual villan), Ranjha was depicted as licentious and Kaidoo became “izataan da rakha” Serious theatre was replaced by juggat bazi com mujra shows. Intelligentia was hounded and decimated and the upholders of Dukandarana sooch and Mullaism were appreciated and encouraged .Biradari based politicts relaced politics of issues. Political gaint Zulfiqar Ali Bhotto was murdered and a pygmy, was propogated as his patry’s rival by the establishment. We heard the heretical words “jag punjabi jag, teri pug no laga dagh”. So a liberal progressive punjab was transformed into conservative and reactionary place. But the spell of the establishment is finally getting over and you will see punjab acting more in accordance with the federalist spirit in the coming days.

@Zenith

Bhutto was against of 6 points personally but he agreed to make it constitution through normal democractic process which was discussion in the parliament.

However, Awami League was asking for to approve it (without any discussion or room for other point of view) as it was their demand.

Bhutto went to Dhaka number of times. Please read his speeches which are never quoted, he said on 22 Feb 1071,

“In both parts of the country only the people have emerged victorious. That is why we avoided a confrontation. In fact, we kept retreating. It is necessary for one of the two sides to do so in order to avoid a confrontation. We did not play up our differences. We went to East Pakistan to explain our stand. I held conferences with my colleagues in Lahore, Multan and Karachi. We retreated so much that people began to ask what had happened to Bhutto. But it is regrettable that Sheikh Mujib remained rigid.”

The other side was hugely exploited and PPP was the first in west pakistan to acknowledge that. In this situation Awami League had no trust and was too very vulnerable and India exploited them alot, with their backing it was Mujib who became rigid.

He was demanding separate currency and separate constitution for one country on the behest of Indian incitement that it is bengalis right,,,so fight for it.

But the most henious role played by any political party was that of JI. They with the support of Pakistan Army, were assassinating Bengali intellectuals, professors, poets, engineerts and doctors and on the other hand Pak Army was buzy in raping bengali women.

In west Pakisan, all newspapers and media (controlled by Establishment) were reporting every thing is cool, nothing is happening there.

Anyways, it was terrible, and we all played our part and I understand you are point that being PPP leader his share of responsiblity was little longer. But please don’t think that he was in the Power to do anything beside dialogues, he could have stopped the war which was the outcome of brutalies Pak army were committing in east wing.

His only weapon was dialogue, and he did so number of times, he even invited Mujib to visit west pakistan after his visit to east pakistan. But Mujib refused so…

Please read his speeches you will get the clearer picture.

Balochistan operation was his mistake, but he did that through democractic process with the consultation of Baloch Leaders. You know that who was governor pf balochistan at that time, Nawab Akber Bugti.

@Commoner
“Did Mian Nawaz Sharif knew about the Kargil, was it launched with his permission, didnt he had a two third majority in the parliment at that time?
So why didnt he stop it before the final humiliation? And if a leader with such huge majority could not do anything what do you expect from Bhutto who was not even in power.”

If you are trying to compare Mian NS with bhutto, I can only say , NS would have been really proud. In response to your argument, i would say, bhutto sahab after the pandemonium of 71, was quick to lach on to the post of a civil martial law administrator, even then he could have reached an agreement with east pakistan, but whats more important is that did he agitate and resist when he came to know of an operation being conducted or was he just a silent spectator? You said that he didn’t even have the power to resist, sir a leader with his deep relation with the west pakistanis could have turned the establishment upside down, after all when a bunch of black coats can cause an uproar why wasn’t the so called heart throb of million of pakistanis, able to lift a single finger in opposition to the operation. He compelled a military dictator to step down single-handedly and wasn’t able to counteract the decision with the power of the people , which PPP always claims to be its nucleus of power, this doesn’t seem right. Just by murmuring few words of sorrow, a job is not done. PPP shouldn’t be exempted from having a part to play in the east pak tragedy.

The other issue was primarily about the plummeting of support for PPP in punjab , but you transformed it into an issue of debauchery. This debauchery is the result of dissolution or should i say the collective incompetence of the MPA’s the provincial ministers who all are feudals and also form a large part of PPP. When there is no law, these things happen. Anyways, the issue was decline in support for PPP, people learned that their slogans were supercilious and nothing more, but in sindh the support for PPP is still there, as this was PPP’s birthplace.
The other thing, i wish to ask u is that why a PPP supporter always says Jiye bhutto, jiye sindh, why not jiye pakistan? This shows their procheal mentality and that of the party too. If this ludicrous slogan is justified, so is Jag punjabi jag teri pag nu lag gaya dagh”
Personally speaking, I was a great believer in the federation, but after having seen the reaction of various people from different provinces other than punjab, I came to a conclusion that many parties, especiallyPPP, conduct politics by promoting animosity amongst the provinces.

Jiye Pakistan! for a change.

NS is not even near to Bhutto!

@Zenith

When did PPP supporter HAS NOT SAID jeay Pakistan??

I am sindhi, I know what sacrifices my provinces has made for our country. PPP has always been criticized not being nationalistic as it has always believed in Federating.

The very first resolution in favor of Pakistan was passed in Sindh Assembly before partition in 1937. The father of this nation belonged to Sindh. We have lost three prime ministers of ours (Liaquat Ali Khan, ZAB and now BB). The largest number of migrants were welcomed and placed in the best citties of Sindh by Sindh. It contributes to 70% revenue of whole country. Most martyrs for the cause of democracy and against dictatorship hails from Sindh. No other party in Pakistan can even dream of contesting elections from other pr