to be honest Shah Mahmood Qureshi of PPP made me really upset . i think they are not very clear about things and are thinking a short cut. i don’t think they want to do any thing which make NS more popular. they never been clear in their words. before they did not wanted to talk moulana fazal ur rehman now they are meeting him . they calles pmlq qatal i bet you they will end up making gov. with them.
talat and hasmi was trying to make Shah Mahmood Qureshi of PPP to open up a bit any of his answer were not clear. he was talking not like friends with hasmi but like rivels.
i don’t see this happening. i hope i am wrong but lets see
all of us can pray
@londoner007
do not forget that these two actually contested against each other in multan in the recent elections… and have been rivals for some the last 20 years…. so it wont be easy to make them agree on something and its normal that they acted liked rivals….
i think the PPPP knows that without the judiciary issue they have no future….
The problem with the PPPP is that these guys are not clear coz they chief is not clear….. see off the record with kashif abbasi to see that anwer beg finally opens up his mind about judiciary after provocation by Faisal Saleh and kashif…
This discussion begs the question of whether the parties know what to do with tremendous opportunity to change the constitutional complexion of Pakistan they have in front of them. If there is a consensus on ‘basic principles’, why can’t the speakers articulate how and when they will achieve the supremacy of the parliament. On the one hand this is pragmatism (we can’t ignore the president and American interests). On the other hand it paves the way for back-room deals and business as usual, which could ultimately result in the alienation of the PML-N. Just my opinion.
Shah mehmood qureshi is beating around the bush. Although he acknowledges that ppp is aware and committed on the issues of the judiciary and the transfer of power, he is not voicing a clear cut statement. He says that yes these both are issues but there are also other issues like wheat crisis, water crisis etc. The answer should be that they should get rid of mr musharraf, then 58-2b and then once they are truly empowered proceed with the governance issues.
No I am sure he said something that made you say what you said. I was talking about propaganda as a separate issue, not in the context of this program.
What happened _after_ the decision of the emergency bench of the supreme court is ILLEGAL and does NOT constitute “Fact on the ground” just like Stolen property does not constitute “defacto ownership” This is not a jungle. I disagree with Talat’s reasoning.
I think they should do the following:
1. Restore the judges by a simple resolution of parliament
2. Immediately Call a session of Supreme court and re-open hearing of the decision that the bench gave regarding the emergency.
3. Cal all the corps commanders and the armystaffof the time and suspend ALL of them. PUth them under house arrest. They were in contempt of court for not obeying a well advertised order of the supreme court of pakistan.
4. Because the President is implicated in illegal activities, an acting president should be appointed.
5. EVERY thing promulgated After the “Unconstitutionality order of Supreme Court of Pakistan” stands null and void. The “President” of Pakistan stands in violations of the constitution and all powers are rescinded.
6. Kiyani should be directed to arrest Mush and his entoruage and sent to Adyaala jail.
111 brigade should be immediately disbanded. They have done nothing but usruped elected governments and NEVER EVER protected the constitution OR the elected representatives of the People of Pakistan. Most of them should be sent home.
What I’m saying is: Everything in violation of the last action of the Parliament is ILLEGAL! All judges who took oath should be sent home without retirement. The ARE FIRED! that’s it. Mush is Fired! He is illegal and Unconstitutional right now. The Army MUST obey the constitution or face the wrath of the people.
one thing u people forget that history told us about pppp and pml.pppp was antiestablishment and pml was pro establishment.if u study u can understand that pppp is only party whose leaders and workers always gave lives for democracy.why will they not want independent judges.their workers gave lives they were sent in jails.in pml only hasmi was punished for four years in jail.slave judges always harmed pppp.before 99 ns and his friends was playing in hands of establishment mean army.after 99 he become enti establishment .this was only reason thats why great bb join him.because she knew that she and her party cannt fight establishment alone.but our people cannt understand because they r mentally accept dictatorship and go on slogans
will the parliament take oath on the amended constitution (as in post-emergency amendments, and how can that be legal when nobody but the parliament has the authority to amend), and if they do wouldn’t they then have to uphold that constitution and could that then be construed as validation of mush’s illegal amendments. Now even I don’t have any idea of what i am saying.
what will the parliament take oath on? and why don’t some of those suicide bomber get rid of vultures like peerzada, kasoori and malik qayyum.
@redux: I think some ppp ppl are saying that the oath is taken under article 65 and that has never been ammended.
In any case, the parliament is sovereign so it can pass new bills. My thinking is that All actions after the Supreme Court explicitly declared the emergency to be invalid, are invalid .. There can’t be any PCO constitution because there isn’t any.
Just cuz Mushi and pals scribbled something in contempt of the Supreme Court of Pakistan doesn’t mean it is the law.
They should take oath on pre Nov 3 constitution, get rid of Mush and friends , and roll back the constitution to pre Oct 99.
My feeling is that Zardari wants to get the transfer of power, once he gets that, he is going to stab Phajja in the face, as he should.
And you know, PPP and PML-N should grow a spine for once, and be willing to resign en-masse .. I mean.. enough is enough man.. I’m sick and tired of sending foreign exchange back home and have it devourde by illegal presidents and their kleptocrats.
(I’m not saying they don’t but they should just go ahead and do it.. take it to the logical conclusion.. the people will support them all the way)
Establishment is still afraid of PPP not of NS. Talat, said very well PMLN is in perfect poistion to say what they are saying because they do not have to deliver.
Mr. Shah Mahmood Qureshi is a disappointment . He is one of the major leaders of PPPP. He lacked the clearity of thoughts and seemed a bit confused . He was not able to to give a clear view point .
I think people of Pakistan deserve a better life .Freedom of speach and will is important then any thing else .Today we have no-self pride , we are not a soverign nation .We are behaving like a colony to American power. This is all because of a single man. One can live in poverty but can not live as a slave.
Time and again people of Pakistan have shown the political intelect and matureity. They have done their job ,now it is upto political parties to do their bit and not to disappoint the nation.
This is the time to act , be united and get rid of the dictator . But if they have given Musharaf 6 month or so I can bet that it will be the end of the game.
Mirabue was a great revolutionary and was quite a man during his time-( French Revolution)- The world and quite a lot of thinking people do accept de Mirabue’s wisdom during the first half of the French Revolution. You are certainly entitled to your own opinion but please do give us your reasons behind your rather cryptic statement- just like Qazi of Jamaat e Islami is entitled to his opinion and so on.
@shimatoree: Also, since you are such a big fan, _and_ obviously a man of great intellect and revolutionary tendencies, perhaps you should spell that poor fellow’s name properly and mention whether you meant The elder or the younger?
Just like sometimes nitpickers want others to specify broogull the elder or Broogull the younger.. etcenter.
TALAT DID THE GREAT EFFORT.
PMLN HAS CLEAR STAND AND I HOPE PPP WILL COME OUT WITH CLEAR PLAN.
WHAT THEY SHOULD DO FROM DAY ONE.
1.THEY SHOULD NOT TAKE OATH FROM RETD. GENERAL PERVEZ MUSHARAF. SIMPLY HE IS NOT A PRESIDENT. I DONOT CALL HIM PRESIDENT. PM SHOULD TAKE THE OATH OF ALL THE NA MEMBERS AND ALL THE NA MEMBERS CAN TAKE AN OATH FROM PM.
2. RESTORE JUDICIARY AS PRE NOV,03,2007. AND JUDICIARY CAN KICK OUT RETD. GENERAL MUSH FROM ILLEGAL POSSESION OF PRESIDENCY. ALSO NULLIFY HIS ILLEGAL ORDINANCES.
Shah Mehmood Qureshi is just imcompetent. PPP in general looks not commited or clear to solve those crystal clear probelms for which whole nation is watching. Few weeks back , there was a beautiful analysis by Mustafa Khar where he mentioned if PPP makes any deal with Mush behind the wall and safe him, they will have government not more than two years. In next election there will be no name of PPP in pakistan politics.
Apart from Aitazaz Ahsan, there is no impressive leader in the PPP at the moment. One of the reason could be, when BB was alive, she choose the personalities based on sincerity with her not with democracy or for the party. Most of the big name leaders like Asif Zardari, Shah Mehmood, Raza Gillani, Qasim Zia all look pathetic when you listen to them on media.
@TK
Comte de Mirabue was the older son as his father who was his most cruel tormentor was one of the aritocrats. He also has a younger brother who inherited all the money and property as Mirabue was dis inherited by his father- who at the end of his life did admit that his older son was a giant amongst men. Mirabue was over 6 ft 2 inches tall and built like a heavy weight boxer but had suffered from small POX in childhood in a time when there was no vaccine and had a severely POCK marked face- inspite of that he was considered very handsome .When he died- there were 100,000 plus mourners in Paris at his funeral. The French are always doing things in a big way for their heros even momentarily. What happened to Faiz Ahmad Faiz- well when this great poet of Pakistan died- there were only 200 people to see him go to his grave .
But for us, when the great Pushto poet Abdul Ghani Khan died there over 40,000 . When Bacha Khan died- there were over 2 million from Peshawer to Jalalabd .
Perhaps how we treat our heros like Iftikhar Mohammad Choudhry says something about us. He has already achieved immortality
PPs cautious approach is understandable and we can see they are affraid of something.One thing they need to understand clearly is that the people of Pakistan consider Musharraf to be public enemy no.1, should be removed quickly. Peoples patience is wearing thin and let us hope it wont reach the point when people themselves have to go there and sort him out.
Javaid Hashmi is well quallified to become a prime minister of Pakistan.
He is indeed a true patriotic Pakistani and a very smart and intelligent politician, who can steer the country out of current serious crises. Above all, he is very honest, humble and down to earth individual.
Talat just nailed it on the head. Shah Mahmood Qureshi (SMQ) simply showed what PPP’s stance is, that is, dubious and vague. SMQ was mostly talking nonsense and not even answering the questions.
Mehmood Qureshi sounds hollow and phony. I hate to be a cynic but what I see is a defeatist or call it the so-called ‘working relationship’ approach from certain sections of PPP. The shades of opinion coming from the PPP side are easily escaping the confines of ‘comfort zone’.
I pray they realize the decisive nature of this turn in the history of a country like ours. Clarity of concepts and purpose can help everyone at this juncture.
.Shah Mahmood Qureshi expressed his views (seems to me exactly in accordance with the lines / direction given to him by Musharaf ) ,keeping in view the fears / clause 58 -2b.While the approach of Mr.Javeed Hashmi is straight forward . Confrontation with a madman shall have to be avoided under these circumstances .Ch. Shujahat ,Pervaiz Ilahi, Pir Paqara ,Sh.Rasheed,Ijaz ul Haque , Sher Afghan —– are eagerly waiting for this confrontation to occur. Musharaf is and will try his utmost to retain his position. But to me he has lost the game on 15th Nov.2007. Now he is protecting his skin and is passing his last miserable days in the so called prison ARMY HOUSE, Rawalpindi
Remarkable performance by Talat Hussain and Javed Hashmi. Both of them shown extreme brilliance. Shah Mahmood was only trying to score points in fake accent and only proved to present his usefulness for establishment. What was he trying to achieve by negating PML(N) ???
Javed Hashmi responded with extreme tolerance and made his counter points very successfully. He only pointed to independents joining PPP in National, Sind and NWFP assemblies but what he avoided to say was, GRAPES ARE SOUR, if PPP could have formed government in Punjab by taking PML (Q), what’s stopping them from forming governments in Islamabad? And, who knows, they might do exactly that and then blame PML(N). After all, Humayun Saifullah (ex secreatry general and NWFP provincial president of PML (Q) has joined PPP and Manzoor Watto is also having meetings. Perhaps, there is no hope when folks like Shah Mehmood are being considered as next prime ministers.
In my personal opinion, if PPP plans to follow on the issues through a political process in the parliment, it would be a better and maturer attitude. But if they are not serious about issues PML-N is so vocal about, it will be a bad omen for the future of whole country. The only option we have is to give them time.
@sic5770
YOU JUST LOGGED IN FOR THAT COMMENT.
GET A LIFE.
Y U R WASTING UR TIME AND OTHERS.
LOOKS LIKE U R VERY JEALOUS PERSON.
DID NOT GET USA VISA……….. TRY IT AGAIN…….
I THINK IF PPP,PMLN AND ANP,PLUS INDEPENDENTS GET TOGATHER THEN THEY CAN EASILY BEAT MUSH. COZ ARMY IS NOT AT HIS BACK.
BUSH IS IN TROUBLE HERE AND MUSH OVER THERE. EVEN REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES DISTANCE THEMSELVES FROM BUSH LIKEWISE MOST OF PLMQ CANDIDATES DISTANCE THEMSELVES FROM MUSH.
WELL DONE INDEPENDENT MEDIA. KEEP IT UP.
@ admin
i donot consider using capital letters as rude but since you have asked me not to use capital letters i will respect your request.
by using capital letters if i have offeneded anyone except sic5770 ,i apologize for that.
Shah mahmood qasuri is very disappointing…but is it a surprise?
He embodies PPP’s is stance since last several month. We must not forget that PPP is wishy washy on both the key issues - Judiciary and Musharraf.
It now finds itself in difficulty beacuse PML(N) got too many seats which shows people’s priorities. Thsi si why they cannot continue their discourse of the ‘deal’ and NRO benefits.
Talat is brillaint.
Shah Mehmood is not even deserve to be an elected MNA …
how ppl are taking his name as one of the strong candidates of PM?
he has interpersonal skills ….Zero communication skills.
na such bolnay ka husla…..
na jhoot bolnay ka saleeqa////
Talat is great …trying hard to get something concrete out of the mouth of PPP reporesentative in the show……
poor Talat ….
very very very very disappointing attitude of shah mehmood qureshi. i agree that this is only second week since these guys are being elected and we should not expect them going too fast but what i demand as a pakistani national is the clarity of mind. Pakistan Peoples Party is just groping in the dark and quite interestingly same was the case when Muhtarama was alive. They dont have clear stance about restoration of judges, removal of the president and reversal of constitutional amendments. they are just trying to befool us.
I really appreciate Nawaz Sharif coz i was not expecting him stand so firm. Most of the politicians from Punjab have compromising attitude, but NS is standing like a rock.
regards
Shah Mehmood Quereshi was arrogant as soon as the program start. Everyone knows that person sitting close to any Host starts responding to any question coming from host unless the Host asks question anyone by name.
Anyways, Javaid Hashmi, whose personality was unknown to me before he was released from jail last year, have won not only my heart but most of Pakistanis—-Thanks to Media!!!!. Very reasonable, clear, responsible, friendly, humble, honest, and what not in good terms this man deserves to be described with. I pray that Pakistan always have people like this as representative of its people and that these people live to the expectations of all patriot pakistanis.
The way Shah Mehmood Qureshi spoke, looks as if PPP is at gun point. Who is pointing guns at them — clearly US and Mush, but they should not be blamed but PPP since only criminals are bribed—
I hate the fact that there is so much US and other countries involvement in this process….. PPP should show maturity and declare that no talks with any external entity till the formation of government…. . Makhdoom Amin Fahim, whom I respect, also met US officials recently…. what is this … what kind of deal ‘DEMOCRACY BONUS’ is being cooked??????
Its very immature when Shah Mehmood Qureshi said that if PPP is kept under pressure to resolve the genuine problems then PPP don’t want to work and its ready to let other party/s to form government….. if its not lack of maturity, lack of confidence, lack of honesty to nation then what it is????
Shah Mahmood Quereshi won both the provincial and national assembly seat so was given a pretty serious mandate by the people. He either doesnt care about what that mandate is or simply doesnt know. Whether out of touch or not, its inexcusable. PPP leaders must understand in no uncertain terms that they were elected to “change ground realities” as Talat phrases it. What part of this do they not understand? Very very disturbing.
Wy Shah mahmood is disappointed? reason is very simple, he is a candidate for PM, he want to be in good book of Establishment…I have no expectation from corrupt PPPP
you look Makhdoom Amin Fahim or Shah Mahmood they have tounge of establishment in their mouth..neither they will impeach President or restore Judiciary …….
I can’t agree with you more. U r spot on! See as soon as Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar sensed his chances of becoming PM, he has started giving negative statements just to be in the good books of establishment. Shah Mehmood and Amin Fahim are doing the same. How pathetic that is if its true.
and @ T’K and Shimatoree I am a bit thickheaded so can you please explain the role of Comte de Mirabue in Live with Talat discussion forum?
@democracy
Shah Mahmood Qureshi is a ‘LANDLORD’ and ‘Makhdoom’.So he won just because of this fact and he and other ‘political jokers’ will continue to win until system is changed.Most of our political jokers are power hungry dogs.
@Adil: It started with a comment on the spinelessness of some of the participants (or leaders thereof)
But it was a good and infromative dicussion.. IMO.. I guess we needed a break from:
A. Abay Altaaf kaalia hai
B. Abay A kaaliaa hai aur Bhutto amreeka ki chamchi thee
C. Abay mera kia hogaa?
A. Munafiq! .. tu to hai hi MQM ka chamcha
G. I’m not a MQM Supporter lekin Altaf bhai kitnay sundar lagtay haiN ajrak maeN? hai naa?
BBC urdu reporting that Musharraf’s visit to London cost the Pakistani treasury more than 60 Lakh in 3 days! Meanwhile Pakistanis are suffering from shortgages of security, gas, water, flour, electricity and now higher fuel prices.
1.Restoration of judges:A committee of eminent lawyers such a G Ibrahim,Farooq Naik, and Politicians like raza rabbani etc have been formed for finding out the procedure to resolve the judicial crisis and restore Judiciary.
2.58(2)-B has to be abolished and It is agreed bw two parties and without 582 B,Mushraf sb’s presidency would be of NO use.Zardari sb is very clear about empowering Parliament by abolishing all such laws formulated in Mushraf Era.
3.Reconciliation efforts to be initiated to restore confidence of smaller provinces in federation.Baluchistan,SIndh and NWFP people would be taken into confidence on all law making regarding provincial autonomy.Apology by PPP from Baluch ppl already sought.
There is a huge Mess by establishment and their Matrix is complex and they are trying to break the coalition bw PPP n PMLN,thats why PPP doesn’t want open their all cards before time and they have taken Mr.NS and Aitzaz into confidence.Wait patiently and sooner inshAllah we will see change in positive direction.
@admin: Is it possible to start a thread on Pakistani Establishment? I think different ppl have different conceptions of what it is and how it works..
I’m posting here instead of in email because hopefully we can get some others to chime in.. (and news and views is already near 300 posts.. activity slowed there I think)
I have watched it twice and I think it was a total waste of time.. Shah sahab just wasted a lot of time in fluffy-talk and no serious points were discussed.
Talat was tired I think because I just could not agree with his logic most times… I think Zardari needs to get off his keester and do something because this inaction is making Mush more confident and the shock of the initial defeat is wearing off..
sadly I wish they had gone with the AA strategy of keeping the pressure on. I hope they don’t come to regret this delay.
February 28th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Good n Informative Programe wel done Talat Hussain
Regards
Anum Hafeez
February 28th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
A very good effort by Talat to dig their minds..
PPP guy shows lack of confidence on the power given by the people of Pakistan..
February 28th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
to be honest Shah Mahmood Qureshi of PPP made me really upset . i think they are not very clear about things and are thinking a short cut. i don’t think they want to do any thing which make NS more popular. they never been clear in their words. before they did not wanted to talk moulana fazal ur rehman now they are meeting him . they calles pmlq qatal i bet you they will end up making gov. with them.
talat and hasmi was trying to make Shah Mahmood Qureshi of PPP to open up a bit any of his answer were not clear. he was talking not like friends with hasmi but like rivels.
i don’t see this happening. i hope i am wrong but lets see
all of us can pray
February 28th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
javed hashmi is always cool
February 28th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
londoner007:
No wonder propoganda works so well in Pakistan. It has only been 1 week and you are already so disheartened.
February 28th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
@londoner007
do not forget that these two actually contested against each other in multan in the recent elections… and have been rivals for some the last 20 years…. so it wont be easy to make them agree on something and its normal that they acted liked rivals….
i think the PPPP knows that without the judiciary issue they have no future….
The problem with the PPPP is that these guys are not clear coz they chief is not clear….. see off the record with kashif abbasi to see that anwer beg finally opens up his mind about judiciary after provocation by Faisal Saleh and kashif…
February 28th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
This discussion begs the question of whether the parties know what to do with tremendous opportunity to change the constitutional complexion of Pakistan they have in front of them. If there is a consensus on ‘basic principles’, why can’t the speakers articulate how and when they will achieve the supremacy of the parliament. On the one hand this is pragmatism (we can’t ignore the president and American interests). On the other hand it paves the way for back-room deals and business as usual, which could ultimately result in the alienation of the PML-N. Just my opinion.
February 28th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
@thehustler
This can’t be a propoganda you can listen him and hear the diffrence between.
but like i said before i hope i am wrong and nothing is like it is looking. btw what you thing after listening these guys who is standing where
February 28th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
Shah mehmood qureshi is beating around the bush. Although he acknowledges that ppp is aware and committed on the issues of the judiciary and the transfer of power, he is not voicing a clear cut statement. He says that yes these both are issues but there are also other issues like wheat crisis, water crisis etc. The answer should be that they should get rid of mr musharraf, then 58-2b and then once they are truly empowered proceed with the governance issues.
Also, I don
February 28th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
londoner007:
No I am sure he said something that made you say what you said. I was talking about propaganda as a separate issue, not in the context of this program.
February 28th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
What happened _after_ the decision of the emergency bench of the supreme court is ILLEGAL and does NOT constitute “Fact on the ground” just like Stolen property does not constitute “defacto ownership” This is not a jungle. I disagree with Talat’s reasoning.
I think they should do the following:
1. Restore the judges by a simple resolution of parliament
2. Immediately Call a session of Supreme court and re-open hearing of the decision that the bench gave regarding the emergency.
3. Cal all the corps commanders and the armystaffof the time and suspend ALL of them. PUth them under house arrest. They were in contempt of court for not obeying a well advertised order of the supreme court of pakistan.
4. Because the President is implicated in illegal activities, an acting president should be appointed.
5. EVERY thing promulgated After the “Unconstitutionality order of Supreme Court of Pakistan” stands null and void. The “President” of Pakistan stands in violations of the constitution and all powers are rescinded.
6. Kiyani should be directed to arrest Mush and his entoruage and sent to Adyaala jail.
111 brigade should be immediately disbanded. They have done nothing but usruped elected governments and NEVER EVER protected the constitution OR the elected representatives of the People of Pakistan. Most of them should be sent home.
What I’m saying is: Everything in violation of the last action of the Parliament is ILLEGAL! All judges who took oath should be sent home without retirement. The ARE FIRED! that’s it. Mush is Fired! He is illegal and Unconstitutional right now. The Army MUST obey the constitution or face the wrath of the people.
February 28th, 2008 at 11:18 pm
one thing u people forget that history told us about pppp and pml.pppp was antiestablishment and pml was pro establishment.if u study u can understand that pppp is only party whose leaders and workers always gave lives for democracy.why will they not want independent judges.their workers gave lives they were sent in jails.in pml only hasmi was punished for four years in jail.slave judges always harmed pppp.before 99 ns and his friends was playing in hands of establishment mean army.after 99 he become enti establishment .this was only reason thats why great bb join him.because she knew that she and her party cannt fight establishment alone.but our people cannt understand because they r mentally accept dictatorship and go on slogans
February 28th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
i have a question (for anyone and everyone):
will the parliament take oath on the amended constitution (as in post-emergency amendments, and how can that be legal when nobody but the parliament has the authority to amend), and if they do wouldn’t they then have to uphold that constitution and could that then be construed as validation of mush’s illegal amendments. Now even I don’t have any idea of what i am saying.
what will the parliament take oath on? and why don’t some of those suicide bomber get rid of vultures like peerzada, kasoori and malik qayyum.
February 28th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
@redux: I think some ppp ppl are saying that the oath is taken under article 65 and that has never been ammended.
In any case, the parliament is sovereign so it can pass new bills. My thinking is that All actions after the Supreme Court explicitly declared the emergency to be invalid, are invalid .. There can’t be any PCO constitution because there isn’t any.
Just cuz Mushi and pals scribbled something in contempt of the Supreme Court of Pakistan doesn’t mean it is the law.
They should take oath on pre Nov 3 constitution, get rid of Mush and friends , and roll back the constitution to pre Oct 99.
My feeling is that Zardari wants to get the transfer of power, once he gets that, he is going to stab Phajja in the face, as he should.
February 28th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
And you know, PPP and PML-N should grow a spine for once, and be willing to resign en-masse .. I mean.. enough is enough man.. I’m sick and tired of sending foreign exchange back home and have it devourde by illegal presidents and their kleptocrats.
(I’m not saying they don’t but they should just go ahead and do it.. take it to the logical conclusion.. the people will support them all the way)
February 29th, 2008 at 12:00 am
Establishment is still afraid of PPP not of NS. Talat, said very well PMLN is in perfect poistion to say what they are saying because they do not have to deliver.
February 29th, 2008 at 12:05 am
@Admn
where is the video ?
February 29th, 2008 at 12:12 am
Mr. Shah Mahmood Qureshi is a disappointment . He is one of the major leaders of PPPP. He lacked the clearity of thoughts and seemed a bit confused . He was not able to to give a clear view point .
I think people of Pakistan deserve a better life .Freedom of speach and will is important then any thing else .Today we have no-self pride , we are not a soverign nation .We are behaving like a colony to American power. This is all because of a single man. One can live in poverty but can not live as a slave.
Time and again people of Pakistan have shown the political intelect and matureity. They have done their job ,now it is upto political parties to do their bit and not to disappoint the nation.
This is the time to act , be united and get rid of the dictator . But if they have given Musharaf 6 month or so I can bet that it will be the end of the game.
February 29th, 2008 at 12:25 am
aoa
mr shah masood you are just beating around the bush, get to the point
restore the judges no ifs or buts
February 29th, 2008 at 12:46 am
Jawaid hashmi deserves to be the CM of punjab, but SS will take this position and make another example of dictatorship within the parties.
February 29th, 2008 at 12:58 am
@tk
Most men lack CHARACTER- Comte de MIRABUE
February 29th, 2008 at 1:22 am
@shimatoree: I REFUSE to accept Mr. de Mirabue as an authority on MEN.
thankyou!
February 29th, 2008 at 1:40 am
@TK
Mirabue was a great revolutionary and was quite a man during his time-( French Revolution)- The world and quite a lot of thinking people do accept de Mirabue’s wisdom during the first half of the French Revolution. You are certainly entitled to your own opinion but please do give us your reasons behind your rather cryptic statement- just like Qazi of Jamaat e Islami is entitled to his opinion and so on.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:08 am
@shimatoree: jo keh ditta so keh ditta. I do not have any problem with your revolutionary credentials though. Keep up the good work bro.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:21 am
@shimatoree: Also, since you are such a big fan, _and_ obviously a man of great intellect and revolutionary tendencies, perhaps you should spell that poor fellow’s name properly and mention whether you meant The elder or the younger?
Just like sometimes nitpickers want others to specify broogull the elder or Broogull the younger.. etcenter.
cheers bro.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:21 am
I mean etcetera.. cough.. cough..
February 29th, 2008 at 2:38 am
TALAT DID THE GREAT EFFORT.
PMLN HAS CLEAR STAND AND I HOPE PPP WILL COME OUT WITH CLEAR PLAN.
WHAT THEY SHOULD DO FROM DAY ONE.
1.THEY SHOULD NOT TAKE OATH FROM RETD. GENERAL PERVEZ MUSHARAF. SIMPLY HE IS NOT A PRESIDENT. I DONOT CALL HIM PRESIDENT. PM SHOULD TAKE THE OATH OF ALL THE NA MEMBERS AND ALL THE NA MEMBERS CAN TAKE AN OATH FROM PM.
2. RESTORE JUDICIARY AS PRE NOV,03,2007. AND JUDICIARY CAN KICK OUT RETD. GENERAL MUSH FROM ILLEGAL POSSESION OF PRESIDENCY. ALSO NULLIFY HIS ILLEGAL ORDINANCES.
February 29th, 2008 at 3:00 am
“WHAT THEY SHOULD DO FROM DAY ONE”
What Mr. Babu from Amreeka should do?
Open the eyes and look for the cap lock button on the left side of keyboard and press it hard, trust me, it will work and do the job.
February 29th, 2008 at 3:00 am
Shah Mehmood Qureshi is just imcompetent. PPP in general looks not commited or clear to solve those crystal clear probelms for which whole nation is watching. Few weeks back , there was a beautiful analysis by Mustafa Khar where he mentioned if PPP makes any deal with Mush behind the wall and safe him, they will have government not more than two years. In next election there will be no name of PPP in pakistan politics.
February 29th, 2008 at 3:07 am
“Mr. Shah Mahmood Qureshi is a disappointment”
Apart from Aitazaz Ahsan, there is no impressive leader in the PPP at the moment. One of the reason could be, when BB was alive, she choose the personalities based on sincerity with her not with democracy or for the party. Most of the big name leaders like Asif Zardari, Shah Mehmood, Raza Gillani, Qasim Zia all look pathetic when you listen to them on media.
February 29th, 2008 at 3:20 am
ZINDA PAKISTAN
“Shah mehmood qureshi is beating around the bush.”
More like beating around a rain forest. I thought I was watching Mr. Ghalat Biyani….
February 29th, 2008 at 3:22 am
@nota: hahah I laughed out loud
February 29th, 2008 at 3:23 am
@TK
Comte de Mirabue was the older son as his father who was his most cruel tormentor was one of the aritocrats. He also has a younger brother who inherited all the money and property as Mirabue was dis inherited by his father- who at the end of his life did admit that his older son was a giant amongst men. Mirabue was over 6 ft 2 inches tall and built like a heavy weight boxer but had suffered from small POX in childhood in a time when there was no vaccine and had a severely POCK marked face- inspite of that he was considered very handsome .When he died- there were 100,000 plus mourners in Paris at his funeral. The French are always doing things in a big way for their heros even momentarily. What happened to Faiz Ahmad Faiz- well when this great poet of Pakistan died- there were only 200 people to see him go to his grave .
But for us, when the great Pushto poet Abdul Ghani Khan died there over 40,000 . When Bacha Khan died- there were over 2 million from Peshawer to Jalalabd .
Perhaps how we treat our heros like Iftikhar Mohammad Choudhry says something about us. He has already achieved immortality
February 29th, 2008 at 3:25 am
PPs cautious approach is understandable and we can see they are affraid of something.One thing they need to understand clearly is that the people of Pakistan consider Musharraf to be public enemy no.1, should be removed quickly. Peoples patience is wearing thin and let us hope it wont reach the point when people themselves have to go there and sort him out.
February 29th, 2008 at 3:27 am
@shimatoree: right on! re: how we treat our best and the brightest.
yaaro mujhay maSloob karo keh meray ba’ad
Shaayad ke tumhaarah Qad-o-Qaamat hi nikal Aa’ay.
or something like that..
February 29th, 2008 at 3:39 am
Javaid Hashmi is well quallified to become a prime minister of Pakistan.
He is indeed a true patriotic Pakistani and a very smart and intelligent politician, who can steer the country out of current serious crises. Above all, he is very honest, humble and down to earth individual.
February 29th, 2008 at 3:47 am
Talat just nailed it on the head. Shah Mahmood Qureshi (SMQ) simply showed what PPP’s stance is, that is, dubious and vague. SMQ was mostly talking nonsense and not even answering the questions.
February 29th, 2008 at 4:33 am
Mehmood Qureshi sounds hollow and phony. I hate to be a cynic but what I see is a defeatist or call it the so-called ‘working relationship’ approach from certain sections of PPP. The shades of opinion coming from the PPP side are easily escaping the confines of ‘comfort zone’.
I pray they realize the decisive nature of this turn in the history of a country like ours. Clarity of concepts and purpose can help everyone at this juncture.
February 29th, 2008 at 4:41 am
Attention: Mr. Shahid Mahmood Qureshi:
It is really simple, Sir! Please realize that
February 29th, 2008 at 5:20 am
.Shah Mahmood Qureshi expressed his views (seems to me exactly in accordance with the lines / direction given to him by Musharaf ) ,keeping in view the fears / clause 58 -2b.While the approach of Mr.Javeed Hashmi is straight forward . Confrontation with a madman shall have to be avoided under these circumstances .Ch. Shujahat ,Pervaiz Ilahi, Pir Paqara ,Sh.Rasheed,Ijaz ul Haque , Sher Afghan —– are eagerly waiting for this confrontation to occur. Musharaf is and will try his utmost to retain his position. But to me he has lost the game on 15th Nov.2007. Now he is protecting his skin and is passing his last miserable days in the so called prison ARMY HOUSE, Rawalpindi
February 29th, 2008 at 6:03 am
Remarkable performance by Talat Hussain and Javed Hashmi. Both of them shown extreme brilliance. Shah Mahmood was only trying to score points in fake accent and only proved to present his usefulness for establishment. What was he trying to achieve by negating PML(N) ???
Javed Hashmi responded with extreme tolerance and made his counter points very successfully. He only pointed to independents joining PPP in National, Sind and NWFP assemblies but what he avoided to say was, GRAPES ARE SOUR, if PPP could have formed government in Punjab by taking PML (Q), what’s stopping them from forming governments in Islamabad? And, who knows, they might do exactly that and then blame PML(N). After all, Humayun Saifullah (ex secreatry general and NWFP provincial president of PML (Q) has joined PPP and Manzoor Watto is also having meetings. Perhaps, there is no hope when folks like Shah Mehmood are being considered as next prime ministers.
February 29th, 2008 at 6:11 am
Video is no longer available. Can you please repost?
February 29th, 2008 at 6:25 am
In my personal opinion, if PPP plans to follow on the issues through a political process in the parliment, it would be a better and maturer attitude. But if they are not serious about issues PML-N is so vocal about, it will be a bad omen for the future of whole country. The only option we have is to give them time.
February 29th, 2008 at 6:26 am
@sic5770
YOU JUST LOGGED IN FOR THAT COMMENT.
GET A LIFE.
Y U R WASTING UR TIME AND OTHERS.
LOOKS LIKE U R VERY JEALOUS PERSON.
DID NOT GET USA VISA……….. TRY IT AGAIN…….
February 29th, 2008 at 6:40 am
I THINK IF PPP,PMLN AND ANP,PLUS INDEPENDENTS GET TOGATHER THEN THEY CAN EASILY BEAT MUSH. COZ ARMY IS NOT AT HIS BACK.
BUSH IS IN TROUBLE HERE AND MUSH OVER THERE. EVEN REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES DISTANCE THEMSELVES FROM BUSH LIKEWISE MOST OF PLMQ CANDIDATES DISTANCE THEMSELVES FROM MUSH.
WELL DONE INDEPENDENT MEDIA. KEEP IT UP.
February 29th, 2008 at 7:02 am
@Babu,
Please stop using CAPITAL LETTERS as this is considered rude.
Admin
February 29th, 2008 at 7:05 am
where is the vidio i cant see the vidio.how i will get the vidio
February 29th, 2008 at 7:22 am
@ admin
i donot consider using capital letters as rude but since you have asked me not to use capital letters i will respect your request.
by using capital letters if i have offeneded anyone except sic5770 ,i apologize for that.
February 29th, 2008 at 7:41 am
Shah mahmood qasuri is very disappointing…but is it a surprise?
He embodies PPP’s is stance since last several month. We must not forget that PPP is wishy washy on both the key issues - Judiciary and Musharraf.
It now finds itself in difficulty beacuse PML(N) got too many seats which shows people’s priorities. Thsi si why they cannot continue their discourse of the ‘deal’ and NRO benefits.
Talat is brillaint.
muqqafa
February 29th, 2008 at 8:53 am
Shah Mehmood is not even deserve to be an elected MNA …
how ppl are taking his name as one of the strong candidates of PM?
he has interpersonal skills ….Zero communication skills.
na such bolnay ka husla…..
na jhoot bolnay ka saleeqa////
Talat is great …trying hard to get something concrete out of the mouth of PPP reporesentative in the show……
poor Talat ….
February 29th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
imran khan zinda bad. talat u r great
February 29th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
very very very very disappointing attitude of shah mehmood qureshi. i agree that this is only second week since these guys are being elected and we should not expect them going too fast but what i demand as a pakistani national is the clarity of mind. Pakistan Peoples Party is just groping in the dark and quite interestingly same was the case when Muhtarama was alive. They dont have clear stance about restoration of judges, removal of the president and reversal of constitutional amendments. they are just trying to befool us.
I really appreciate Nawaz Sharif coz i was not expecting him stand so firm. Most of the politicians from Punjab have compromising attitude, but NS is standing like a rock.
regards
February 29th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
NOV3 actions are definitely high treason. He should be the one put under house arrest and tried under article 6 along with his legal “advisors”
February 29th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
A couple of days ago somebody blamed Talat to be pro PPP.
Whether he is or not, at least in this programme, he was very balance.
And Shah Mahmood was really pathetic. Listen to him at about 5:00.
Later on also, he relied more on verbosity than logical arguements.
With people like him, PPP -PML(N) co-operation may not last for long.
February 29th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Good work Talat!
Shah Mehmood Quereshi was arrogant as soon as the program start. Everyone knows that person sitting close to any Host starts responding to any question coming from host unless the Host asks question anyone by name.
Anyways, Javaid Hashmi, whose personality was unknown to me before he was released from jail last year, have won not only my heart but most of Pakistanis—-Thanks to Media!!!!. Very reasonable, clear, responsible, friendly, humble, honest, and what not in good terms this man deserves to be described with. I pray that Pakistan always have people like this as representative of its people and that these people live to the expectations of all patriot pakistanis.
The way Shah Mehmood Qureshi spoke, looks as if PPP is at gun point. Who is pointing guns at them — clearly US and Mush, but they should not be blamed but PPP since only criminals are bribed—
I hate the fact that there is so much US and other countries involvement in this process….. PPP should show maturity and declare that no talks with any external entity till the formation of government…. . Makhdoom Amin Fahim, whom I respect, also met US officials recently…. what is this … what kind of deal ‘DEMOCRACY BONUS’ is being cooked??????
Its very immature when Shah Mehmood Qureshi said that if PPP is kept under pressure to resolve the genuine problems then PPP don’t want to work and its ready to let other party/s to form government….. if its not lack of maturity, lack of confidence, lack of honesty to nation then what it is????
February 29th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Shah Mahmood Quereshi won both the provincial and national assembly seat so was given a pretty serious mandate by the people. He either doesnt care about what that mandate is or simply doesnt know. Whether out of touch or not, its inexcusable. PPP leaders must understand in no uncertain terms that they were elected to “change ground realities” as Talat phrases it. What part of this do they not understand? Very very disturbing.
February 29th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
Wy Shah mahmood is disappointed? reason is very simple, he is a candidate for PM, he want to be in good book of Establishment…I have no expectation from corrupt PPPP
you look Makhdoom Amin Fahim or Shah Mahmood they have tounge of establishment in their mouth..neither they will impeach President or restore Judiciary …….
February 29th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
@ sleepingnation
I can’t agree with you more. U r spot on! See as soon as Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar sensed his chances of becoming PM, he has started giving negative statements just to be in the good books of establishment. Shah Mehmood and Amin Fahim are doing the same. How pathetic that is if its true.
and @ T’K and Shimatoree I am a bit thickheaded so can you please explain the role of Comte de Mirabue in Live with Talat discussion forum?
February 29th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
@democracy
Shah Mahmood Qureshi is a ‘LANDLORD’ and ‘Makhdoom’.So he won just because of this fact and he and other ‘political jokers’ will continue to win until system is changed.Most of our political jokers are power hungry dogs.
February 29th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
@dexbex
You are probably right. Can’t argue there. It was a clash of the Makhdooms in Southern Punjab! I am way too depressed to argue
February 29th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
@Adil: It started with a comment on the spinelessness of some of the participants (or leaders thereof)
But it was a good and infromative dicussion.. IMO.. I guess we needed a break from:
A. Abay Altaaf kaalia hai
B. Abay A kaaliaa hai aur Bhutto amreeka ki chamchi thee
C. Abay mera kia hogaa?
A. Munafiq! .. tu to hai hi MQM ka chamcha
G. I’m not a MQM Supporter lekin Altaf bhai kitnay sundar lagtay haiN ajrak maeN? hai naa?
waghaira waghaira…
February 29th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
BBC urdu reporting that Musharraf’s visit to London cost the Pakistani treasury more than 60 Lakh in 3 days! Meanwhile Pakistanis are suffering from shortgages of security, gas, water, flour, electricity and now higher fuel prices.
February 29th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
ppp will have to come out with a clear stand. they are simply looking too dubious. its trouble ahead
February 29th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Highlights PPP and PMLN Meetings:
1.Restoration of judges:A committee of eminent lawyers such a G Ibrahim,Farooq Naik, and Politicians like raza rabbani etc have been formed for finding out the procedure to resolve the judicial crisis and restore Judiciary.
2.58(2)-B has to be abolished and It is agreed bw two parties and without 582 B,Mushraf sb’s presidency would be of NO use.Zardari sb is very clear about empowering Parliament by abolishing all such laws formulated in Mushraf Era.
3.Reconciliation efforts to be initiated to restore confidence of smaller provinces in federation.Baluchistan,SIndh and NWFP people would be taken into confidence on all law making regarding provincial autonomy.Apology by PPP from Baluch ppl already sought.
There is a huge Mess by establishment and their Matrix is complex and they are trying to break the coalition bw PPP n PMLN,thats why PPP doesn’t want open their all cards before time and they have taken Mr.NS and Aitzaz into confidence.Wait patiently and sooner inshAllah we will see change in positive direction.
February 29th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
@admin: Is it possible to start a thread on Pakistani Establishment? I think different ppl have different conceptions of what it is and how it works..
I’m posting here instead of in email because hopefully we can get some others to chime in.. (and news and views is already near 300 posts.. activity slowed there I think)
thx!
March 1st, 2008 at 12:00 am
I have watched it twice and I think it was a total waste of time.. Shah sahab just wasted a lot of time in fluffy-talk and no serious points were discussed.
Talat was tired I think because I just could not agree with his logic most times… I think Zardari needs to get off his keester and do something because this inaction is making Mush more confident and the shock of the initial defeat is wearing off..
sadly I wish they had gone with the AA strategy of keeping the pressure on. I hope they don’t come to regret this delay.
March 1st, 2008 at 3:37 am
RESTORE AND EMPOWER A FREE JUDICIARY.
That is it.