peoples party is either not clear or simply too impotent or may be waiting for the right time. clash is inevitable but they are trying to evade it. they should take a clear stand
@doc
I think its part of their strategy that they tend to not to show their cards early. They are doing the same here. They know they cant co-exist with Musharraf but they don’t want to be seen going with all daggers drawn at him.
They are also talking about having a new presidents later but in a low tone.
People may disagree with the approach but sometime it works.
Imran was absolutely right in saying that the clash is inevitable over the Judiciary and 58-2(b), and the sooner the parliament has that clash, the better, because it will be weaker later if they dilly dally.
PPP still seems to be prepared to keep sucking up to dictator. Petty and idiot people still not prepared to clear up their stance. Even after begin repeatedly pumped by kashif to speak up clearly, this ppp dick-head was sticking to stories.
On the other hand…looser NS playing his own politics. No ministries in federal government clearly sends the message that let PPP make the govt and enjoy their plight when they try to resolve such intense problems and than in next elections, be in perfect position to secure 2-3rd majority. He knows that after BB, PPP doesn’t have a leadership to not to end up like Q-league after five years. which will definitely be the situation if ppp accepts mush as a president.
Imran absolutely right. The clash is inevitable. anyone sticking with mush will end up loosing public support.
I suggest Imran Khan must not accept any senetorship from PPP, he will be having only limited power thence but he will then have to compromise many things while speaking against government policies. We need him either in a real power OR outside the parliament to lead the civil society, critically look the government policies and reorganize and establish his own party to a level that next time we could vote him with a bigger hope for real changes.
Only IK was showing passion for Pakistan, it’s people and a justice system. You can see the glow in his eyes and his bodylanguage. The PPPP man just couldn’t refuse any of IK’s statements, and how can he when someone is putting real issues in front you while millions are watching? Only low life MQM politicians could have made some usual bla.bla..talk. We have also seen PPPP using spaghetti politics without clear cut answers on clear cut issues. I understand that sometimes politicians need to be fishy, but NOT always. Here we have a situation where we need clear cut answers and solutions, but still PPPP is fishy. That is unbearable and therefor it was great to see the great IK put pressure on PPPP.
The question the host of this program ask from PPP
1- Do you want independance of Judiciacy
OR
2- Restoration of Judiciary???
But thanks God, the PPP guy was wise enough to reply we want both, otherwise a Common PPL will ALWAYS go for first option (I mean who would sacrifice indendence of judiciary with restoration of judiciary) and therefore, have provided lame excuse to the host to grill PPP!
PPP was dead clear on 58-2B but still it was not clear enough for the host.
Well, PPP is in government now so they will have to take the grilling !
hahaa this NRO was musharraf’s lasy revenge on Pakistan. Well not really, It would be wrong to say we are back to square one. We never really left. PPP is a party whose chair person tried its best to be the bigger toady than musharraf was. Both were paraplegics hasting towards the grand title of the “Knight more loyal to the crown than the king himself.”
“Canst thou believe thy living is a life, so stinkingly depending? Go mend, go mend.”
And here we got nothing from the Mr. Ashraf except lame duck spinning and beating around the Bush (pun). hahaa and virtually every other issue.
SO we really make too much of US involvement in Pakistan? Here we go guys: forces of status quo, corruption, feudalism and pompous asses are jubilant again YAYYYY!!!!! “Parliament, parliament.”
How the hell did ppl like Aitezaz ever join this party? They are like democrats haha. I bet republian are gonna take 2008 again. Democrats love the neocons actually..Because they are absolutely THE SAME! Elected in 2006 with majority in BOTH houses of the congreess; it was a referendum on Bush&co. : the middle finger with thunderous ass bolts from Pelos and Reid etc..and then what do they do? piss their pants and approve of EVERY BILL and appropriations when Bush merely raises his voice. When questioned why they havn’t delivered on their promises? Their response: “We have the presidential eletion and our time is really squeezed.” And Pelosi’s crowning wisdom, ” …sometimes you just have to play the field position”…”after we elect a new president then we’ll take a new look at it.”
ROFLMGDCDBSTHFAO!!!!!! (rolling on the floor laughing my god dam***d chicken dove britney Spears’ tabloid hating F*****G Ass Off!)
Republican party is a goner….and sure enough US is going to a one party system the Repuclicrats. oh I can see Limbaugh having an orgasm. Just like I had one when I heard he self righteous pontificating prick was hooked on drugs.
Oh how the founding father sof the US must be turning in their graves: when the nation strays so far from their ideals and America’s brave sons like Ron Paul and classical liberals are ridiculed and ignored by the media and the establishment.
This is appeasement. Mo.Fos haw haw haw. This…is what appeasement is.
Career polticians. Actually Democrats are just jealous as neocons fascist have just hijacked their own visions for a “peaceful world” . So much love. They should just have one big lustful debauchery, group solidarity orgy up on the Hill.
Now across the seas in US’s offshore cheap investment marshy, misty bog called Pakistan we have a strikingly similar theatre: First we had an idiot Quisling General yappin around his crap around when sitting besides Imran Khan and now this treacherous Pipli rubbing his hands along with other of his kind waitin in the wings to get a piece of the Paki ladoo.
oh well. I giess I’m gonna go watch 10,000 B.C. in the theatres. It’s gotten bad reviews but what the heck.
P.S.
Note to Imran Khan: Dont you effing DARE quit. Dont you DARE. You listening Sir?
Pakistanis: you wanted a Salahuddin? Well looks like you got your wish. To the young turks of my generation: he’s the guy who has a chance to leave a positive aspiration for the rest of us. Support him so long as he is right.
As regards the Piplees; those with integrity should do what they were elected o do because it is the only right thing at the momment. OR for Gawd sakes leave this god forsaken Hippodrome you so nostalgically attribute to ZAB and join Imran Khan.
This goes for you to Fatima Bhutto. You reading this hon?
I am not going senile. Really. I knew we have to keep struggling and keep the momentum alive. I am optimistic truth be told. these are exciting times for the nation and the region and the believers.
saint said:PPP still seems to be prepared to keep sucking up to dictator. Petty and idiot people still not prepared to clear up their stance. Even after begin repeatedly pumped by kashif to speak up clearly, this ppp dick-head was sticking to stories
————————
PPP is avoiding direct confrontation with Musharraf who is still being supported by the almighty army and the US establishment. Instead of giving statements against Musharraf like PMLN their first prriority is the formation of geovernmnet that I consider a more pragmatic approach. The latest news is that both PPP and PMLN are agree on reinstatement of deposed judges within 30 days of the formation of government.
When Kashif put some pressure on Raja Pervaiz, he wasted not a single moment in blaming the Media Hype. So hes clear that reinstatement of Judiciary is no more than Media Hype.
Raja Sahib we have Q-league for baby steps, people voted for you & PMLN to take giant leaps not the same old baby steps towards democracy.
For ur info,
for impeachment of president, u need 2/3rd in TOTAL form both houses ( not required from individual house).
and PPP, ANP, PMLN, and FATA, etc strength in both houses is more than 2/3rd. and impeachment is not a problem.
However, there is another argument that mush is not a legal president and thats y impeachment is NOT required.
i am saying, U DONT NEED to have 2/3rd in senate for impeacment of president.
u need 2/3rd of TOTAL number of both houes and it DOES NOT matter if u dont get even a single member of senate and still u can have the total number from national assembly ONLY.
Saqib saheb you are right all the amendment are illegal and judges can also be restored by a simple official notification. But to get rid of 58 2b or to remove Musharraf from power a 2/3rd majority in both the house is needed.
U r not getting the point……yet……
to have any ammendment in constitution u need 2/3rd from INDIVIDUAL house.
BUT
for impeachment of a LEGAL PRESEIDENT, u need 2/3 in TOTAL of both houses ( u can hav required number of 294 from national assembly only and/or with few members of senate)
2/3rd from Senate is NOT REQUIRED.
Could you put your thought in ‘comments’ style (not essay) so that we could see what you are saying. If we wanted to read essays, we could go to ‘featured article’ on this website or other national and international journals.
no offense but you are not alone. there are many others who no doubt sometimes write good but we need longer time to read than watching videos and looking at comments.
@Optimist hey ther bro . No problem on your suggestion. Maybe I should write an essay. I enjoy coming here and putting down my thoughts whenever I get time. Feel free to scroll past them if you like. Thanks.
@Fahim: that’s really good news. I give more credit to PMLN for their undaunting stance. Zardari is still very worried about his anyone following upon his past kartoots and would definitely wanna enforce the illegal NRO he got from a dictator. Let’s hope the party chooses Pakistan’s interest over his. Saqib brought up a good point that a free an indenpendant judiciary is not subjected to selectivity. We’l see how the drama unfolds.
Certainly GOOD NEWS. PPP and its workers deserve appreciation.
PML-N has also shown flexibility and agreed to become part of govt and take oath from MUSH.
Good decision by PPP and PML-N. It was needed and every one was waiting for this. MUSH may have been trying to persuade Amin Fahim to work with him as he had said that there is no immediate need to impeach president.
Let us hope that with in a month Judges are restored and MUSH and his supporters go away.
If MUSH wants to show that he keeps his words and is son of his father and has some shame then he should resign immediately.
@Fahim23: Thanks for the link bro. Hopefully the political process will keep moving forward.
@Omar Khan: Chomsky, Vidal and others have been lamenting the very same thing (A One party state in the US) for quite some time now. The last half decade is witness to their statements in the past years as to this pretty much being a fait accompli. The one remaining hitch was the Soviet Union, which thanks to the IDIOTS in the Islamist camp is gone now.
Well how does that Amreeky shaft feel now boys? TOOLS ( JI, HT, OBL, all of them! all of them!)
In any case, I see IK and PPP in Idealist vs. Pragmatist (slightly opportunist) camps respectively. So I wouldn’t dismiss the PPP approach out of hand. I think there is more than one way to skin this cat. The cat is going to get skinned, the manner may be unpredictable at this point in time.
Raja Parvez Ashraf didn’t say one thing of any substance whatsoever. Nor did he answer one question. Everytime IK spoke the truth he just sat squirming in his chair. I don’t even understand the point of having him on the show. Can these PPP people think for themselves or do they just have to wait and hear what Zardari thinks? And then he actually blamed the media for sensatializing issues. He seems like he could be intelligent but he behaved like a complete tool.
Imran is superb. He knows exactly what mush and bush are doing together in our tribal belt and confronts both of them in the face. It kinda reminds me of RATM’s song ‘Bulls On Parade’
I wish Pakistan sees peace soon but I dont think it will be easy with Mush in Pakistan and Bush in Afghanistan.Both need to go!
@Tab’an: I have tremensous respct for Chomsky as a linguist ; as a socio political pundit meh.He is an intellectual giant no doubt. But really US has moved in to this direction because of the progressives not the liberals. Big govt. enthusiasts. That would be the democrats and neoconservatives. And the problem has been decades in the making; though the last one saw its bloom. Hence the progressives and neocons having a full blown orgy in the Hill. While the true liberals or in American speak ” the fiscal and political conservatives” are siting with their mouth open or have become career band wagonners as well.
And I don’t think anyone would consider USSR something to miss really. It was the most brutal state in the history of mankind. CHalked on weak and eroded foundations for a brief segment of time. In that the freedom fighters who fought itshegemony and brutality are what fables and honor is all about. In that sense than the Afghan resistance who what now the likes of neoconservatives love to come up with diddly doo names such as Islamists was actually a show of mettle against an imperialist brutal force. And it is not something new. We saw that in Indo-China against the French and in Libya against the Italians and indeed now against the Americans. So don’t you fall for their little ol game buddy.
During the cold war the lines were clear: USSR was the worst the world had yet seen. It was the best. And let’s look at what happened to it. The same fate will befell the USA. Not because of any external threat but internal erosion of its ideals, and the massive MASSIVE public apathy.
So the SHAFT is really up those whom lick boots. Not those who show the finger and force the aggressor to come up with embarrassing conundrum. Mush, Bush and Blair.
@Omar Khan: I must say I don’t really know what to do with the patronizing tone (in places) in your last post, but lets just chalk that up to you probably studying too hard last night
Re: Chomsky, sure, though I don’t understand much in his linguistics theory and I really haven’t read much on it to be able to comment properly on his merits as a linguist. But the reference to Gore Vidal and Chomsky was mainly towards the generalizations they have been making for a while, and just to reassert that what you mentioned is an observation already made by observers great and small for decades now. So, for sure you’re in great company there.
Regarding Soviet Union, I would say that I violently disagree with the assertion that it was the most brutal state.. I think you’re missing the German State during Hitler, American State during .. well all through it’s history, the Belgian state during Herr Leopold, and various other choice western states who have done their part in dispatching a few million here and there. In any event, USSR was at least a balancing force against the berzerkification of the west that we are witness to after it’s demise.
I really didn’t get the thing about “progressives” being in on it. If Hitchens, assortmentsof ‘witzes”, “manns” and “steins” are progressives then we’re all pretty much FU*KED! I would rather stab myslef in the eye with sharp pencil than call any of those firking ar$eholes “progressieves” .. Please .. don’t mess with me like that bro! One thing you may find interesting about these so called “progressives” is that they are hard-core zionists and class-a xenophobes (not to mention straussians to boot). Yeah, through AIPAC etc they got a lot of democratic sheeple to go with the war-plans but I wouldn’t call them progressives… they are fascist right radicals extraordinaires. But they ain’t progressives.
Regarding the much romanticised afgan mujideen, all those who fought “for freedom” haven’t fared well. Not least because they were FUDKING TOOLS! Not unless you call getting your country pummeled into oblivion for a foreigner, then having it abandoned to a heinous civil war, only to be re-invaded by the very same benefactor for some more time. So, I don’t buy into that “Freedom Fighter” BS that the Islamists have been falling for since the days of Raja Ranjit “Here.. mullah mullah.. won’t you go fight the infidel sikhs in a jihad? WELL YESS OF COURSE NARA TAKBEER”… 30 years later, the british dispatch all the islamic jihadi fools who were mere tools for their strategic interests.
If afghans were such big shot “freedom fighters” how come they’re having a hell of a time fighting off less than 50k troops now? doesn’t make sense, unless all those mobile phones have really dampened their anti-imperial spirits? I support them fighting off the russians if they had invaded in deed, but the Afghan war was a total set up. The russians were lured into it. Besides, the Sino Russian support for the Viet Cong is a historical fact. so much for pure anti-imperialism fight for truth eh?
You lick boots directly or you lick boots by proxy. Yer still a lickspittle. If the Islamist nit-wits serve the imperial interests of America, you can call them hero if you please, I’ll keep calling them TOOLS until they prove otherwise.
p.s. libya totally capitulated dude, unless taking a few bombs in the presidential tent and a few terrorist acts against civilian planes somehow qualifies them to join the hallowed ranks of fighters for truth and justice. And why not..
@Tab’an, I fear you really did see me patronizing you in my last post. oh well. Tab’an most of what people say have been said somewhere else. Including every single paragraph you etch out. Does not mean that it is not extemporaneous.
Now…
By a brutal state I mean not only the way a state would go venture in dealing with peoples through its foreign policy but also how it would treat its own citizens. The Berlin Wall is indeed a not just a mere satirical metaphor. It’s true. Soviet Union was created onm the blood millions. It was never a popular revolution.
And sure the US has its own record vis a vis slavery and civil rights of minorities for example but irst offs it was never an imperialist empire until it sought started to venture forth trying to save the world. And still it never even came close to the naked agression and violation of human dignity so openly…until to an extent now. Still US is uniwue among great powers of the wrold that while it goes f******g up the world, its own citizens of all hue and color and origins enjoy the most free lifstyle of all. And the Americansmore than ANY other eople in the history of the world are more accepting f immigrants than others.
US was a shining example to the world, not just a mere illusion even a few years ago.
Now coming to the “Islmaists” and “progressives” . I didn’t refer to neocons as progressives oh no no. I refr to these neo liberals or Democrats as progressives: the big govt. socialist enthusiasts. There actions though more bening in nature result in near same culmination as the neocons fascists. They may be under the illusion that they are diagrametically opposite but the fruits of the taste of the pudding….whatever is in the pudding. Stalin and Hitler hated each other after all. Hillary and Obama are the forces of status quo in the US. Hardly any difference between the dmocrats and this crop of republicans.
Now Islmaists or mujahideen or freedom fighters whatever you want to call them did not spring up just like that. To say USSR was a vicitim of a conspiracy is counterintuitive to say the least. USSR was an active interventionist, it did not occupy vast swathes of political estate through commerce or treaties but naked aggression. To say USSR was fooled into coming into Afghanistan is like saying USA was fooled into Iraq or vietnam. No solid basis to declare this what so ever.
The population of rebels in those countires which fought against a foreign occupation did so out of their own volition and will. If the mujahideen had not received any armaments from the Soviets, they still would’ve fought just like they are still fighting. The conflict could be prolonged but the end was inevitable. In Vietnam USA won every single battle witht he vietcong but lost the war.It was capable to proloning tit even to this day. Same in Libya where they fought with sticks and stones when weapons were absent. It is the popular sentiment which gives rise to armed struggle and it is opportunistic movements that come into power through voids left in wake of destruction.
I don;t why you speak of Sikhs. Those are olden by gone days. Every one wanted to rule. Sikhs got a breif stint. But to say these “Jihadists” were somehow coexed into send the Sikhs packing is like saying Sikhs were coexed into rebelling against the Afghan rule. Or better yet sikhs were formed by the Mughaal ISI to insert a schism between the various south asian cults against brahmans. I don’t think so.
SO yeah the mujahideen in afghanistan did not farewell because of their utter failure to form a national govt. Those who did under the Taliban, then became fasicsts much like Soviet Union. Hence I would say that while taliban were a brutal nationlist movement like the Russian Bolsheviks with much infused religious rhetoric, it was not a popular Islamist movement. This does not mean that their movement or their struggle for independace was any less romantic. It was and still is one of the best examples of how David faces up to a Goliath. Just because US hads gone astray does not mean the freedom fighters of the US against the Crown were lick spitles or TOOLSS! as you so enthusiastically put it buddy.
Anyways Afghanistan is a different complex matter altogather. In Afghnistan we had active interference from neighbours, total failure of leadership until Taliban, and total isolation from the rest of the world imposed by the US. So those warlords especially the career bandwagonners who have been brought by the US into power will still not be accepted until the popular sentiment vindicates them of their past. That ain’t happening any time soon. Because they are viewed along with their sponsors as innately evil and not having any good intentions for the Afghanistan and ofcourse memories are fresh. How would Pakistanis feel if USA after supporting a dictator comes along to declare we want to liberate Pakistan.
To say Karzai is a mere mayor of Kabul is no exaggeration. Despite pumping in BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollarsinto afghanistan every quarter, afghanistan is in much worse shape with no end in sight. If these billions and bilions were used in building trade with Afghanistan’s Taliban results would actually have been much better. Like Iran which has comes leaps and bounds from a brutal police state after nearly 3 decades.
And guess what who wanted to isolate the Taliban and also Pakistan? Yep Amreeki progressives.
@Omar Khan: dude seriously, no offense but reading (just half of the above post) I feel like I’m switching between CNN/History Channel/FOX and Discovery in a random manner.
Brief answers:
what?
what?
what?
umm..
whaaat?
whaaaat?
kthxbye …
P.S. you didn’t try to match the what’s with the paragraphs didja? don’t! Okay, so I disagree with pretty much every para. And I think I have good counters to every single one, but really, what’s the point bro?
I am surprised that you managed to read half of them. To me, the size of these comments (if they are comments) is too big to consider them seriously. It reminds of of a TV ad in the UK. It keeps saying: Blah Blah Blah……… Blah Blah Blah…..
I just don’t read when I see the name Omer khan last time he was just going with flow. So since taban, since u read half of crap? would u summarize what was it?
Correction: in my post above,”If the mujahideen had not received any armaments from the Soviets, they still would’ve fought just like they are still fighting.”
I meant armaments from the US not Soviets. Thanks all.
well to be honest, i think comments by omer do make sense. Although i donot agree with all of it, most of it does resonate with my opinions. @ omer, have you read anything by across michel chossudovsky? I
@Omer Khan
“And sure the US … it was never an imperialist empire until it sought started to venture forth trying to save the world.”
Just wait a second right here. Go through a href=”http://www.adbusters.org/media/flash/hope_and_memory/timeline.swf”>this timeline and see if you want to stand behind that statement.
Next thing you’ll tell me is US didn’t start torture until Bush invaded Iraq. Wrong again and by a long shot!
Dear s-khan thank you. As you an see I have an Omer Khan fan club here. Or the antifanclub whichever. I get all kinds of love. The fans just get a little antagonistic when faced with something more than the usual confab. To be fair I do type in rapid fire delivery press the submit button and leave. I could work on that so other 3rd parties can follow the discussion in a systematic manner.
And michel chossudovsky you said? No sir I am afraid I have not heard of him. Come to think of it I haven’t read much Chomsky much either except most of his books on linguistics. Though I have heard him speak and he comes across a better, much more refined, well articulate Harvard version of Michael Moore. See I digressed again.
I like this show but I have objection on Shakeel abbasi: Why does he show disrespect to guests who don’t support his point of view? In democratic environment, one should listen and repsect everyone’s point of opinion.
Imran Khan, you are becoming a senator. Your view points are very positive, we hope to see you Foreign Minister in short period of time. Pakistani public like your aggressive nature as well as you have the capability to take no foreign pressure and deliver your national message.
May Allah protect you from evil powers, which are against you.
The link you posted does not tell any story nor makes any point. US interventionism really started with WWII. Before that the US pursued a policy o its own national interest primarily in its own backyard. The Barbary pirates example is a prime example of US protecting its vital interests. That is different than active interventionism. For example even during Desert storm, when US intervened when it really did not have to, even so it was for a limited objective of protecting the oil interests. Sure it caused some resentment, but that was not the prime problem. The prime problem was that the US never left and then the crippling Sanctions and continued aerial bombardment of Iraq During Clinton Administration.
admin
video is not working, what else r u going to post tonight?
Fixing.
Thanks Admin. waiting for fixed one
yaar video is not working here as well.
Apologies to everyone.
I uploaded again and it is still not working. There seems to be some problem with blip.
I will put it on upload again and sleep. You can check the video in an hour on the top right small video player.
Admin
Man you(Raja Pervaiz) won’t get rid of any one of the evils that you were talking without justice. Period.
On the blip.tv the first video not working but the second one uploaded by admin is working. Here is the url
http://blip.tv/file/728090/
peoples party is either not clear or simply too impotent or may be waiting for the right time. clash is inevitable but they are trying to evade it. they should take a clear stand
i am not able to see the video…
@doc
I think its part of their strategy that they tend to not to show their cards early. They are doing the same here. They know they cant co-exist with Musharraf but they don’t want to be seen going with all daggers drawn at him.
They are also talking about having a new presidents later but in a low tone.
People may disagree with the approach but sometime it works.
Imran was absolutely right in saying that the clash is inevitable over the Judiciary and 58-2(b), and the sooner the parliament has that clash, the better, because it will be weaker later if they dilly dally.
PPP still seems to be prepared to keep sucking up to dictator. Petty and idiot people still not prepared to clear up their stance. Even after begin repeatedly pumped by kashif to speak up clearly, this ppp dick-head was sticking to stories.
On the other hand…looser NS playing his own politics. No ministries in federal government clearly sends the message that let PPP make the govt and enjoy their plight when they try to resolve such intense problems and than in next elections, be in perfect position to secure 2-3rd majority. He knows that after BB, PPP doesn’t have a leadership to not to end up like Q-league after five years. which will definitely be the situation if ppp accepts mush as a president.
Imran absolutely right. The clash is inevitable. anyone sticking with mush will end up loosing public support.
Imran Khan …..ZindaBad
Imran Khan …..ZindaBad
Imran’s advises r much valuable in current issues
Assembly say bahir bhi Cheeta hai tu.
Well done Khan jee.
I suggest Imran Khan must not accept any senetorship from PPP, he will be having only limited power thence but he will then have to compromise many things while speaking against government policies. We need him either in a real power OR outside the parliament to lead the civil society, critically look the government policies and reorganize and establish his own party to a level that next time we could vote him with a bigger hope for real changes.
Only IK was showing passion for Pakistan, it’s people and a justice system. You can see the glow in his eyes and his bodylanguage. The PPPP man just couldn’t refuse any of IK’s statements, and how can he when someone is putting real issues in front you while millions are watching? Only low life MQM politicians could have made some usual bla.bla..talk. We have also seen PPPP using spaghetti politics without clear cut answers on clear cut issues. I understand that sometimes politicians need to be fishy, but NOT always. Here we have a situation where we need clear cut answers and solutions, but still PPPP is fishy. That is unbearable and therefor it was great to see the great IK put pressure on PPPP.
/Saqib
The question the host of this program ask from PPP
1- Do you want independance of Judiciacy
OR
2- Restoration of Judiciary???
But thanks God, the PPP guy was wise enough to reply we want both, otherwise a Common PPL will ALWAYS go for first option (I mean who would sacrifice indendence of judiciary with restoration of judiciary) and therefore, have provided lame excuse to the host to grill PPP!
PPP was dead clear on 58-2B but still it was not clear enough for the host.
Well, PPP is in government now so they will have to take the grilling
!
hahaa this NRO was musharraf’s lasy revenge on Pakistan. Well not really, It would be wrong to say we are back to square one. We never really left. PPP is a party whose chair person tried its best to be the bigger toady than musharraf was. Both were paraplegics hasting towards the grand title of the “Knight more loyal to the crown than the king himself.”
“Canst thou believe thy living is a life, so stinkingly depending? Go mend, go mend.”
And here we got nothing from the Mr. Ashraf except lame duck spinning and beating around the Bush (pun). hahaa and virtually every other issue.
SO we really make too much of US involvement in Pakistan? Here we go guys: forces of status quo, corruption, feudalism and pompous asses are jubilant again YAYYYY!!!!! “Parliament, parliament.”
How the hell did ppl like Aitezaz ever join this party? They are like democrats haha. I bet republian are gonna take 2008 again. Democrats love the neocons actually..Because they are absolutely THE SAME! Elected in 2006 with majority in BOTH houses of the congreess; it was a referendum on Bush&co. : the middle finger with thunderous ass bolts from Pelos and Reid etc..and then what do they do? piss their pants and approve of EVERY BILL and appropriations when Bush merely raises his voice. When questioned why they havn’t delivered on their promises? Their response: “We have the presidential eletion and our time is really squeezed.” And Pelosi’s crowning wisdom, ” …sometimes you just have to play the field position”…”after we elect a new president then we’ll take a new look at it.”
ROFLMGDCDBSTHFAO!!!!!! (rolling on the floor laughing my god dam***d chicken dove britney Spears’ tabloid hating F*****G Ass Off!)
Republican party is a goner….and sure enough US is going to a one party system the Repuclicrats. oh I can see Limbaugh having an orgasm. Just like I had one when I heard he self righteous pontificating prick was hooked on drugs.
Oh how the founding father sof the US must be turning in their graves: when the nation strays so far from their ideals and America’s brave sons like Ron Paul and classical liberals are ridiculed and ignored by the media and the establishment.
This is appeasement. Mo.Fos haw haw haw. This…is what appeasement is.
Career polticians. Actually Democrats are just jealous as neocons fascist have just hijacked their own visions for a “peaceful world” . So much love. They should just have one big lustful debauchery, group solidarity orgy up on the Hill.
Now across the seas in US’s offshore cheap investment marshy, misty bog called Pakistan we have a strikingly similar theatre: First we had an idiot Quisling General yappin around his crap around when sitting besides Imran Khan and now this treacherous Pipli rubbing his hands along with other of his kind waitin in the wings to get a piece of the Paki ladoo.
oh well. I giess I’m gonna go watch 10,000 B.C. in the theatres. It’s gotten bad reviews but what the heck.
P.S.
Note to Imran Khan: Dont you effing DARE quit. Dont you DARE. You listening Sir?
Pakistanis: you wanted a Salahuddin? Well looks like you got your wish. To the young turks of my generation: he’s the guy who has a chance to leave a positive aspiration for the rest of us. Support him so long as he is right.
As regards the Piplees; those with integrity should do what they were elected o do because it is the only right thing at the momment. OR for Gawd sakes leave this god forsaken Hippodrome you so nostalgically attribute to ZAB and join Imran Khan.
This goes for you to Fatima Bhutto. You reading this hon?
I am not going senile. Really. I knew we have to keep struggling and keep the momentum alive. I am optimistic truth be told. these are exciting times for the nation and the region and the believers.
We are living in interesting times.
i am trying time and again but video is not working…….waiting desperatlely for this programme
try the video box on the top right corner..the little one.
saint said:PPP still seems to be prepared to keep sucking up to dictator. Petty and idiot people still not prepared to clear up their stance. Even after begin repeatedly pumped by kashif to speak up clearly, this ppp dick-head was sticking to stories
————————
PPP is avoiding direct confrontation with Musharraf who is still being supported by the almighty army and the US establishment. Instead of giving statements against Musharraf like PMLN their first prriority is the formation of geovernmnet that I consider a more pragmatic approach. The latest news is that both PPP and PMLN are agree on reinstatement of deposed judges within 30 days of the formation of government.
And how can people ignore that PPP, PML and ANP still don’t have 2/3rd majority in the Senate to impeach Musharraf successfully.
When Kashif put some pressure on Raja Pervaiz, he wasted not a single moment in blaming the Media Hype. So hes clear that reinstatement of Judiciary is no more than Media Hype.
Raja Sahib we have Q-league for baby steps, people voted for you & PMLN to take giant leaps not the same old baby steps towards democracy.
@ Asfand
For ur info,
for impeachment of president, u need 2/3rd in TOTAL form both houses ( not required from individual house).
and PPP, ANP, PMLN, and FATA, etc strength in both houses is more than 2/3rd. and impeachment is not a problem.
However, there is another argument that mush is not a legal president and thats y impeachment is NOT required.
Bravo PPP and PML-N . I am thrilled to see that today both parties in principle now had agreed to restore judges.
God bless Pakistan.
GM saheb as far as I know PPP, ANP and PMLN do have 2/3rd majority in the national assembly but not in the Senate.
There is no need for 2/3 majority. All the amendments from Musharraf are illegal and not valid.
/Saqib
@ Asfand
u did notget my point
i am saying, U DONT NEED to have 2/3rd in senate for impeacment of president.
u need 2/3rd of TOTAL number of both houes and it DOES NOT matter if u dont get even a single member of senate and still u can have the total number from national assembly ONLY.
Saqib saheb you are right all the amendment are illegal and judges can also be restored by a simple official notification. But to get rid of 58 2b or to remove Musharraf from power a 2/3rd majority in both the house is needed.
GM saheb 2/3rd majority is needed in both houses of parliament to amend constitution.
@ Asfand,
U r not getting the point……yet……
to have any ammendment in constitution u need 2/3rd from INDIVIDUAL house.
BUT
for impeachment of a LEGAL PRESEIDENT, u need 2/3 in TOTAL of both houses ( u can hav required number of 294 from national assembly only and/or with few members of senate)
2/3rd from Senate is NOT REQUIRED.
@ Asfand
please see article 47 (8) of the constitution
http://pkpolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/constitution.pdf
GM saheb sorry that I misunderstood your post. I always thought that a 2/3rd majority in both houses of parliament is required to impeach president.
@ Omer Khan
Could you put your thought in ‘comments’ style (not essay) so that we could see what you are saying. If we wanted to read essays, we could go to ‘featured article’ on this website or other national and international journals.
no offense but you are not alone. there are many others who no doubt sometimes write good but we need longer time to read than watching videos and looking at comments.
To all PPP basers
Take this whereever you can!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2008/03/080309_ppp_pml_accord_ra.shtml
@Optimist hey ther bro . No problem on your suggestion. Maybe I should write an essay. I enjoy coming here and putting down my thoughts whenever I get time. Feel free to scroll past them if you like. Thanks.
@Fahim: that’s really good news. I give more credit to PMLN for their undaunting stance. Zardari is still very worried about his anyone following upon his past kartoots and would definitely wanna enforce the illegal NRO he got from a dictator. Let’s hope the party chooses Pakistan’s interest over his. Saqib brought up a good point that a free an indenpendant judiciary is not subjected to selectivity. We’l see how the drama unfolds.
Certainly GOOD NEWS. PPP and its workers deserve appreciation.
PML-N has also shown flexibility and agreed to become part of govt and take oath from MUSH.
Good decision by PPP and PML-N. It was needed and every one was waiting for this. MUSH may have been trying to persuade Amin Fahim to work with him as he had said that there is no immediate need to impeach president.
Let us hope that with in a month Judges are restored and MUSH and his supporters go away.
If MUSH wants to show that he keeps his words and is son of his father and has some shame then he should resign immediately.
PML-N has kept its promise and made us proud that it can take a stand for just cause when people have voted for them based on that cause.
Great man with great Mind and Intentions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well Done sir IK.
There are many good names in pakistani politics BUT is there some one more trusthworthy, honest, loyal,eligible, and chrsmatic leader than IK.
we should use this talent to build our country.
May Allah give him a chance.
@Fahim23: Thanks for the link bro. Hopefully the political process will keep moving forward.
@Omar Khan: Chomsky, Vidal and others have been lamenting the very same thing (A One party state in the US) for quite some time now. The last half decade is witness to their statements in the past years as to this pretty much being a fait accompli. The one remaining hitch was the Soviet Union, which thanks to the IDIOTS in the Islamist camp is gone now.
Well how does that Amreeky shaft feel now boys? TOOLS ( JI, HT, OBL, all of them! all of them!)
In any case, I see IK and PPP in Idealist vs. Pragmatist (slightly opportunist) camps respectively. So I wouldn’t dismiss the PPP approach out of hand. I think there is more than one way to skin this cat. The cat is going to get skinned, the manner may be unpredictable at this point in time.
Raja Parvez Ashraf didn’t say one thing of any substance whatsoever. Nor did he answer one question. Everytime IK spoke the truth he just sat squirming in his chair. I don’t even understand the point of having him on the show. Can these PPP people think for themselves or do they just have to wait and hear what Zardari thinks? And then he actually blamed the media for sensatializing issues. He seems like he could be intelligent but he behaved like a complete tool.
Imran is superb. He knows exactly what mush and bush are doing together in our tribal belt and confronts both of them in the face. It kinda reminds me of RATM’s song ‘Bulls On Parade’
I wish Pakistan sees peace soon but I dont think it will be easy with Mush in Pakistan and Bush in Afghanistan.Both need to go!
@Tab’an: I have tremensous respct for Chomsky as a linguist ; as a socio political pundit meh.He is an intellectual giant no doubt. But really US has moved in to this direction because of the progressives not the liberals. Big govt. enthusiasts. That would be the democrats and neoconservatives. And the problem has been decades in the making; though the last one saw its bloom. Hence the progressives and neocons having a full blown orgy in the Hill. While the true liberals or in American speak ” the fiscal and political conservatives” are siting with their mouth open or have become career band wagonners as well.
And I don’t think anyone would consider USSR something to miss really. It was the most brutal state in the history of mankind. CHalked on weak and eroded foundations for a brief segment of time. In that the freedom fighters who fought itshegemony and brutality are what fables and honor is all about. In that sense than the Afghan resistance who what now the likes of neoconservatives love to come up with diddly doo names such as Islamists was actually a show of mettle against an imperialist brutal force. And it is not something new. We saw that in Indo-China against the French and in Libya against the Italians and indeed now against the Americans. So don’t you fall for their little ol game buddy.
During the cold war the lines were clear: USSR was the worst the world had yet seen. It was the best. And let’s look at what happened to it. The same fate will befell the USA. Not because of any external threat but internal erosion of its ideals, and the massive MASSIVE public apathy.
So the SHAFT is really up those whom lick boots. Not those who show the finger and force the aggressor to come up with embarrassing conundrum. Mush, Bush and Blair.
@Omar Khan: I must say I don’t really know what to do with the patronizing tone (in places) in your last post, but lets just chalk that up to you probably studying too hard last night
Re: Chomsky, sure, though I don’t understand much in his linguistics theory and I really haven’t read much on it to be able to comment properly on his merits as a linguist. But the reference to Gore Vidal and Chomsky was mainly towards the generalizations they have been making for a while, and just to reassert that what you mentioned is an observation already made by observers great and small for decades now. So, for sure you’re in great company there.
Regarding Soviet Union, I would say that I violently disagree with the assertion that it was the most brutal state.. I think you’re missing the German State during Hitler, American State during .. well all through it’s history, the Belgian state during Herr Leopold, and various other choice western states who have done their part in dispatching a few million here and there. In any event, USSR was at least a balancing force against the berzerkification of the west that we are witness to after it’s demise.
I really didn’t get the thing about “progressives” being in on it. If Hitchens, assortmentsof ‘witzes”, “manns” and “steins” are progressives then we’re all pretty much FU*KED! I would rather stab myslef in the eye with sharp pencil than call any of those firking ar$eholes “progressieves” .. Please .. don’t mess with me like that bro! One thing you may find interesting about these so called “progressives” is that they are hard-core zionists and class-a xenophobes (not to mention straussians to boot). Yeah, through AIPAC etc they got a lot of democratic sheeple to go with the war-plans but I wouldn’t call them progressives… they are fascist right radicals extraordinaires. But they ain’t progressives.
Regarding the much romanticised afgan mujideen, all those who fought “for freedom” haven’t fared well. Not least because they were FUDKING TOOLS! Not unless you call getting your country pummeled into oblivion for a foreigner, then having it abandoned to a heinous civil war, only to be re-invaded by the very same benefactor for some more time. So, I don’t buy into that “Freedom Fighter” BS that the Islamists have been falling for since the days of Raja Ranjit “Here.. mullah mullah.. won’t you go fight the infidel sikhs in a jihad? WELL YESS OF COURSE NARA TAKBEER”… 30 years later, the british dispatch all the islamic jihadi fools who were mere tools for their strategic interests.
If afghans were such big shot “freedom fighters” how come they’re having a hell of a time fighting off less than 50k troops now? doesn’t make sense, unless all those mobile phones have really dampened their anti-imperial spirits? I support them fighting off the russians if they had invaded in deed, but the Afghan war was a total set up. The russians were lured into it. Besides, the Sino Russian support for the Viet Cong is a historical fact. so much for pure anti-imperialism fight for truth eh?
You lick boots directly or you lick boots by proxy. Yer still a lickspittle. If the Islamist nit-wits serve the imperial interests of America, you can call them hero if you please, I’ll keep calling them TOOLS until they prove otherwise.
p.s. libya totally capitulated dude, unless taking a few bombs in the presidential tent and a few terrorist acts against civilian planes somehow qualifies them to join the hallowed ranks of fighters for truth and justice. And why not..
@Tab’an, I fear you really did see me patronizing you in my last post. oh well. Tab’an most of what people say have been said somewhere else. Including every single paragraph you etch out. Does not mean that it is not extemporaneous.
Now…
By a brutal state I mean not only the way a state would go venture in dealing with peoples through its foreign policy but also how it would treat its own citizens. The Berlin Wall is indeed a not just a mere satirical metaphor. It’s true. Soviet Union was created onm the blood millions. It was never a popular revolution.
And sure the US has its own record vis a vis slavery and civil rights of minorities for example but irst offs it was never an imperialist empire until it sought started to venture forth trying to save the world. And still it never even came close to the naked agression and violation of human dignity so openly…until to an extent now. Still US is uniwue among great powers of the wrold that while it goes f******g up the world, its own citizens of all hue and color and origins enjoy the most free lifstyle of all. And the Americansmore than ANY other eople in the history of the world are more accepting f immigrants than others.
US was a shining example to the world, not just a mere illusion even a few years ago.
Now coming to the “Islmaists” and “progressives” . I didn’t refer to neocons as progressives oh no no. I refr to these neo liberals or Democrats as progressives: the big govt. socialist enthusiasts. There actions though more bening in nature result in near same culmination as the neocons fascists. They may be under the illusion that they are diagrametically opposite but the fruits of the taste of the pudding….whatever is in the pudding. Stalin and Hitler hated each other after all. Hillary and Obama are the forces of status quo in the US. Hardly any difference between the dmocrats and this crop of republicans.
Now Islmaists or mujahideen or freedom fighters whatever you want to call them did not spring up just like that. To say USSR was a vicitim of a conspiracy is counterintuitive to say the least. USSR was an active interventionist, it did not occupy vast swathes of political estate through commerce or treaties but naked aggression. To say USSR was fooled into coming into Afghanistan is like saying USA was fooled into Iraq or vietnam. No solid basis to declare this what so ever.
The population of rebels in those countires which fought against a foreign occupation did so out of their own volition and will. If the mujahideen had not received any armaments from the Soviets, they still would’ve fought just like they are still fighting. The conflict could be prolonged but the end was inevitable. In Vietnam USA won every single battle witht he vietcong but lost the war.It was capable to proloning tit even to this day. Same in Libya where they fought with sticks and stones when weapons were absent. It is the popular sentiment which gives rise to armed struggle and it is opportunistic movements that come into power through voids left in wake of destruction.
I don;t why you speak of Sikhs. Those are olden by gone days. Every one wanted to rule. Sikhs got a breif stint. But to say these “Jihadists” were somehow coexed into send the Sikhs packing is like saying Sikhs were coexed into rebelling against the Afghan rule. Or better yet sikhs were formed by the Mughaal ISI to insert a schism between the various south asian cults against brahmans. I don’t think so.
SO yeah the mujahideen in afghanistan did not farewell because of their utter failure to form a national govt. Those who did under the Taliban, then became fasicsts much like Soviet Union. Hence I would say that while taliban were a brutal nationlist movement like the Russian Bolsheviks with much infused religious rhetoric, it was not a popular Islamist movement. This does not mean that their movement or their struggle for independace was any less romantic. It was and still is one of the best examples of how David faces up to a Goliath. Just because US hads gone astray does not mean the freedom fighters of the US against the Crown were lick spitles or TOOLSS! as you so enthusiastically put it buddy.
Anyways Afghanistan is a different complex matter altogather. In Afghnistan we had active interference from neighbours, total failure of leadership until Taliban, and total isolation from the rest of the world imposed by the US. So those warlords especially the career bandwagonners who have been brought by the US into power will still not be accepted until the popular sentiment vindicates them of their past. That ain’t happening any time soon. Because they are viewed along with their sponsors as innately evil and not having any good intentions for the Afghanistan and ofcourse memories are fresh. How would Pakistanis feel if USA after supporting a dictator comes along to declare we want to liberate Pakistan.
To say Karzai is a mere mayor of Kabul is no exaggeration. Despite pumping in BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollarsinto afghanistan every quarter, afghanistan is in much worse shape with no end in sight. If these billions and bilions were used in building trade with Afghanistan’s Taliban results would actually have been much better. Like Iran which has comes leaps and bounds from a brutal police state after nearly 3 decades.
And guess what who wanted to isolate the Taliban and also Pakistan? Yep Amreeki progressives.
@Omar Khan: dude seriously, no offense but reading (just half of the above post) I feel like I’m switching between CNN/History Channel/FOX and Discovery in a random manner.
Brief answers:
what?
what?
what?
umm..
whaaat?
whaaaat?
kthxbye …
P.S. you didn’t try to match the what’s with the paragraphs didja? don’t!
Okay, so I disagree with pretty much every para. And I think I have good counters to every single one, but really, what’s the point bro?
@ Taba’n Khamosh
I am surprised that you managed to read half of them. To me, the size of these comments (if they are comments) is too big to consider them seriously. It reminds of of a TV ad in the UK. It keeps saying: Blah Blah Blah……… Blah Blah Blah…..
@optimist and @taba’n khamosh
I just don’t read when I see the name Omer khan
last time he was just going with flow. So since taban, since u read half of crap? would u summarize what was it?
@Tab’an, econfused and optimist….no offense taken dudes and deudettes.
But remarkable how similar the symptom are….This very well could be a Demopublican primary. Cheers guys. This is classic
@econfused, @Optimist: One of you better be a dudette, cuz I sure as sh!t aint!
Correction: in my post above,”If the mujahideen had not received any armaments from the Soviets, they still would’ve fought just like they are still fighting.”
I meant armaments from the US not Soviets. Thanks all.
well to be honest, i think comments by omer do make sense. Although i donot agree with all of it, most of it does resonate with my opinions. @ omer, have you read anything by across michel chossudovsky? I
*** read anything by michel chossudovsky??
@Omer Khan
“And sure the US … it was never an imperialist empire until it sought started to venture forth trying to save the world.”
Just wait a second right here. Go through a href=”http://www.adbusters.org/media/flash/hope_and_memory/timeline.swf”>this timeline and see if you want to stand behind that statement.
Next thing you’ll tell me is US didn’t start torture until Bush invaded Iraq. Wrong again and by a long shot!
Correction: Link this timeline
Dear s-khan thank you. As you an see I have an Omer Khan fan club here. Or the antifanclub whichever. I get all kinds of love. The fans just get a little antagonistic when faced with something more than the usual confab. To be fair I do type in rapid fire delivery press the submit button and leave. I could work on that so other 3rd parties can follow the discussion in a systematic manner.
And michel chossudovsky you said? No sir I am afraid I have not heard of him. Come to think of it I haven’t read much Chomsky much either except most of his books on linguistics. Though I have heard him speak and he comes across a better, much more refined, well articulate Harvard version of Michael Moore. See I digressed again.
But I’ll keep that name in mind. Thank you.
I like this show but I have objection on Shakeel abbasi: Why does he show disrespect to guests who don’t support his point of view? In democratic environment, one should listen and repsect everyone’s point of opinion.
Assalam-o-Alaikum,
Imran Khan, you are becoming a senator. Your view points are very positive, we hope to see you Foreign Minister in short period of time. Pakistani public like your aggressive nature as well as you have the capability to take no foreign pressure and deliver your national message.
May Allah protect you from evil powers, which are against you.
Pakistan Zindabad ………….. Pervez Musharraf Murdabad.
@nota,
The link you posted does not tell any story nor makes any point. US interventionism really started with WWII. Before that the US pursued a policy o its own national interest primarily in its own backyard. The Barbary pirates example is a prime example of US protecting its vital interests. That is different than active interventionism. For example even during Desert storm, when US intervened when it really did not have to, even so it was for a limited objective of protecting the oil interests. Sure it caused some resentment, but that was not the prime problem. The prime problem was that the US never left and then the crippling Sanctions and continued aerial bombardment of Iraq During Clinton Administration.
…addendum to the above: …I am no enthusiast of michael moore.
Leave your response!
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Recent Comments
Discuss Topics
Blog Comments
Search