the new media… ’speculations’ reporting

This is like Alqaeda in Iraq. This is serious business. We better do something.

This looks like a shaped charge like they used in Oklahoma city bombing.

paranoid thought: Could it be that these are warning shots for Zardari and Nawaz Sharif from the Americans for not toeing the US line? Something weird about these new bombings…

@khanman: shouldn’t you be helping out in the investigations in stead of pi$$ing around on web forums trying to spread disinformation? is this what u agency people are reduced to now? no wonder we’re being attacked right and left.

@Tab’an Khamosh
seriously bro.. you need to get a life!!

@admin

have u changed anything with the video, the streaming is much slower though other videos on youtube are streaming fine for me

STFU! you don’t even watch the program and give your STUPID opinion before that. Nobody needs you cute little quips you FREAK!

@admin
Please upload capital talk…

This is bad. Another tragedy.
I just wonder what the hell our intelligence agencies are doing? Seems like terrorists are enjoying a well organized network of communication and coordinating all these events more frequently now. And we are still unable to track down any of such group.
They dont care if a democratic government comes into power and continue to destablize Pakistan. There more likely are some foreign hands involved in all this.
May God save and help Pakistan.

this stuff is hard to understand that who are these ppl as there is no operation goin on in wana and also baitullah mahsud never acclaims suicide bombing,this is not right there is some thing else goin on and the idea is prevailing that they are the splinter groups or some individuals but by doing this they are just gettin isolated and back to the wall and even if some ppl like sheeren mazari and naseem zehra who are the most liberals among the journalists who had always opposed the militarty operations in tribal areas and so called american war on terror are forced to say that there is something behind these bombings

sometimes i wonder wt our intelligence agencies are doing,if they can get the pictures of judges’s bathrooms and beds than how the hell they are unable to locate a movement of 50 kg explosive and why couldn’t they intercept any fone calls or any sms about the plan

its absolutely hard to believe all this

i dont think those ppl in tribal areas would do this as if they do they would claim it openly coz its such a big target to hit out.

Steps for peace:

Musharraf should be made accountable for all his acts (rather hanged),
constitution and judiciary should be restored,
peace talks should be held with tribal areas,
renowned aalims should convey publicly to nation that this is not jihad,
army should be backed out completely from tribal areas,
such steps should be taken for future that no army personnels dare to step in country affairs,
US should be asked not to interfere with pakistan internal matters,
Intelligence agencies should be interrogated and questioned

This is horrible. I shall call it a crime of the century. I am shocked and saddened to witness this kind of carnage. Many precious lives have been lost, and many dozens have been injured. My condolences are for those famillis who’s love ones have lost their lives in this heinous crime. I am also in pray for the quick recovery of the injured.

The people of this beautiful and historical city has never witneesed this level of violence and carnage. It is very dangerous trend and we have to solve this problem as soon as possible. We have to find out the root cause of this serious problem. Our new govrnment should be in session by now, and our army must be removed from northern Pakistan. We have to negotiate with our brothers and sisters in north area, rather than killing them with bombs and bullets. Our army should not be allowed to kill their own fellow citizens and occupy our own country. That reckless policy have failed miserably.
New government is going to face a difficult challenge ahead. Politicians have monumental task for them to do. Our country is in serious trouble and we must join together to solve our problems. I appeal to the Western powers to stop their interventios in our internal affairs, and allow our democracy to mature. Pakistan cannot afford to fight a proxy war for others and against their own brothers. We have to tackle the problems of extremism, millitism and terrorism by ourself and in a different way.

In the supreme interest of our nation, I ask Mr Mush to leave the army house and try not to create difficulties for the new government.

Mr Mush, I made you fully responsible for what is happening in our country right now. So like a gentle man please leave.

@qabil50

i wish he would listen to your ’such a humble request’

but looking at his past 9 years record starting from kargil and ending at 10 march(when he met his loyals to counter muree declaration)

he is not going any where until or unless he will be pushed hard and kicked like the way he has been kicking:politicians,judges,lawyers,people of pakistan.

these bomb blasts and weak characters of our politicians who always tend up to comprise at the end to the western pressure are just giving life to his fainted soul.

hope our politicians stick together and for the first time think about innocent people who are gettin killed in whether tribal areas or in suicide bombings and make the parliament and constitution strong and let us get out of this presidential mess.

@qabil50
“I shall call it a crime of the century”
Let’s not go SOOOO overboard now! Terrible? Indeed but lets keep things in perspective…

law & order mess
constitutional mess
judicial mess
economic mess
presidency against parliament mess
war on terror against 18th feb mandate mess
liberal against extremist mess
extremists against liberal mess
army against ppl mess
lawyers against army mess

when we figure out all this,it luks obvious that its basically:

musharaf against people of pakistan mess.

but hopes are still high

the FIA building had arrested people from the last week’s Naval College bombing who were being investigated/ questioned…
could it be that this blast was to end that interrogation?

the point being who knewa bout the interrogation? who knew where it is taking place and at what time?

Why do we have such a big army and airforce if we cant go after these people. Something needs to be done.

@admin -

You are doing great work getting us this info around the clock.
God bless.

@lota

u realy speak like ur name,kant you see that after spending 6 years bombing them by every means now innocent people are paying the price with their lives.

if you want more bloodshed than do suggest this idea,that our great army should do more bombing and in result the remaining family members of those ppl come and kill more ppl in the cities.

make sure you buy a new house next to any agency’s office if you are propagating this idea

This whole idea that remaining family members of people killed by the bombing are seeking revenge is childish. How does a person get 60 kg of explosive shaped charge. What kind of a person uses it in residential areas. For people like you bush was doing everything before. The planes that hit WTC were remote controlled. Check the video and interviews for this attack. This is terriorim financed by the middle east shiekhs and hugging people is not going to make it away. You can have a political soloution with the tribal people and i am all for it but you cant have a soloution with these terriost arabs who are fighting in the name of there twisted ideology.

start doing some readings bro,

let me recommend you some right now,read today’s express and read abbas athar’s column,the guy is famous for his leftist and socialist views if you know any thing about him

read the column and try to put some burden onto your tiny mind and may be you will get the idea.

and by the way share your views about the idea that these all the recent suicide attacks were carried out by arabs.

and i m not a supporter of this at all,it is terrorism by all means but one should not be acting like brig(r)cheema if so than we should start believing musharaf that pakistan has got the absolute prosperity.

these attacks are musharaf’s life line and the news are mongring all around that may be he will put up another emergency and postponed assembly session

just look at the video,there were threats that there could be suicide attacks and there were no barriers there to stop the traffic and the guy just rammed in and blew himself up and astonishing thing is that how the hell he was driving a car with 60 kg of explosive and no body had noticed it.

was he just around the corner waiting for 09:25

if he than thats the biggest security lapse that a place which is so sensitive where there should not be any cars parked for about 100 meters some one was waiting with 60 kg explosive

this is not a conspiracy theory

it was a update from guardian news paper

Bush did this mushi did that. Mushi blew up whole off lahore so he can impose emergency. Either you give mushi too much credit or your world view is biased. It is anyone but the sunni slafi people who have a lot of dinars to spend in pakistan. There is a white elephant sitting in the living room it is amazing you cant seem to see it.

your own view is so thin,so if you have got any lights to shed on than do it otherwise just dont do the talk of talk

how an earth would sunni salfi can urge some one to blow himself up and give his life away at the of 20 without any motive.

would you blow yourself up just for money,i believe the answer would be no

you could only do that if you see one of your own got bombed whether in lal masjid or in swat or in wana.

i m not defending this at all but let me know after reading this and so much other stuff that who is biased me or some one else

read one more article of sheeren mazari and naseem zehra in todays news

so bro start doing some reading and than come for the argument,dnt just do talk of talk like kamran khan or najam sethi

A shaped charge was used in both bombings. It takes a lot of know how to built one. A shaped charge was used to blow up the Egyptian embassy in Islamabad a few years ago. A shaped charge was used to blow up USS cole and shape charges are used in Iraq everyday to blow up us soldiers. Money is used to acquire knowledge, materials, logistics and support. A grieved family member from wana or lal masjid can never built something as sophisticated as a shape charge but they can be used as a mule to drive the van to its target. You can reason with the grieved relative but you cannot reason with the guy who built this device. The people building these devices are using Islam to brain wash people. They would use any grievance available to kill innocent people to make a political point. I don’t have any sympathy for them. They are a threat to our very existence and should be taken on. Blaming mushi or bush is not going to make them go away.

I hate saying this, but ‘What goes around comes around’. When Pakistan was helping America and in some cases, directly killing Muslims, Pakistanis and Afghanis, we were sitting in the Leisure of our homes and doing nothing to stop and denounce this crime. Our media was not doing anything, our ‘CIVIL SOCIETY’ was not doing anything. And in fact the ‘CIVIL SOCIETY’ was supporting Musharraf for these actions and terming it as a fight of Moderates VS Extremists.

Frankly speaking I am quite sad at all this, but I have been sad, since the first bomb was thrown by America on the Taliban government with the ‘Logistical’ support of Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

From that day I was ashamed to look myself in the mirror as a ‘Proud Pakistani’. Since I believe that the blood of people from Wana, children from Madressahs, Afghanis is as sacred as the blood of Lahories, Karachiites, Pindians etc

May Allah have mercy on us and may HE enable us to seek forgiveness from HIM, so that we come out of these troubled times.

amaduddin

very true and hope the one above you would understand this as well

lota man start using your mind,we are getting what we had put in there.

as i said before that i am defending that all and i m with you and i am calling them terrorists as well but dont you see that they are agrieved and thats why they are getting used even if we take your definition

thats what all of our politicians are saying even the most liberal and secular of the parties are saying that this is not our war.

6 years of continous operation and more 100,000 troops are there and still couldn’t capture wana,

there are other 7 agencies which are fully loaded with heavy ammunition

so when ppl talk about political discussion they know wt r they talking about.

@amaduddin
with your logic the earthquake a year ago was also because of our bad deeds. The civil society in pakistan did not tell people in afghanistan or tribal areas to sell themselves to tourist arabs. With your what goes around comes around logic USA was justified in seeking revenge against the innocent civilians and the civil society in afghanistan becuase they did not do anything to stop al qaeda or the taliban. The problem is that all these tourist arbas need to go back to there countries and operate from there if they desire. they don’t belong in our house or backyard. If you primitive society does not have the answers to your problems and your only soloution is to be a martyr and go to heaven. Practice that in your home country. If you take shelter in the tribal areas or afghanistan people looking for you would kill a lot of civilians also. When that happens dont blame pakisan. Its not on us its on you.

The problem has been that all the arab fighters could not return to their home countries because after the demise of communism, Islam became the new enemy of USA. Most of the arab regimes being dictatorial and american puppets did not want these Islamicized arabs return to their homes as this could threaten their role.

Arabs were left with no place to go. Paksitan should have realize its precarious position in this regard and should have offered assylum to these arabs. In return, undertakings could have been obtained from them about not engaging in any violent activity. Most of them had families and children and wee simply looking for any place safe to live normal lives.

Instead, the mush regime started killing and capturing them and selling the captured ones to USA for 5,000 dollars each. Staring certain death or life long captivity at Guantanamo Bay, these arabs had no option but to start fighting back with all they could give.

If extremists are responsible for this tragedy they should certainly be blamed but the present regime must share the blame equally.

this is so tragic …
poor Mali and his kids …
may God rest thier souls in peace …
my guess …its Mush …who wanted to tell the world…
terriorism is there ..it is a constant thread …
nobody but only i can handle it ….
as Mush is afraid of accord between two major parties….

@beenai
your right this is so sad. The poor kids of the mali playing in the ground didnt know anything about bush, osama, mushi, nawaz, zardari or chief justice. It is the the poor that always die cheaply be it in a ground, bus or train. It is sad when a kid dies in lahore, wana, afghanistan, palestine, iraq or world trade center.

pic of the surviving members of the mali family
http://www.khabrain.com/pics/main4.jpg


little girl
http://www.khabrain.com/pics/main6.jpg

this is all because of existing of F@@ing and Bloody Mushraf……….he must quit now . we hate him . i personaly dont even like his face …..

come on yaar try to kill Bloody Musharaf and his allies i am desprate to hear news that shaikh rasheed gone , Pervaiz elahi gone …. why they bloody still alive

@Sifaar (said it all in a clear way)

Steps for peace:

* Musharraf should be made accountable for all his acts (rather hanged),
* constitution and judiciary should be restored,
* peace talks should be held with tribal areas,
* renowned aalims should convey publicly to nation that this is not jihad,
* Army should be backed out completely from tribal areas,
* such steps should be taken for future that no army personnels dare to step in country affairs,
* US should be asked not to interfere with pakistan internal matters,
* Intelligence agencies should be interrogated and questioned

@amadudin great points. and by others as well.

US bunched up all different factions together, hence to an extent a self fulfilling prophecy we see in play.

Mush declared war on Pakistan’s tribal areas, but these guys are not balochis or bengalis. And they fight and they kick ass. I wont be surprised like if what Adonis and amadudin say that most bombings are carried out by arab fighters just like in Iraq and the Levant.

I too like you guys was sad and frustrated when no one listened and was so blind and kowtowing Mr. progressive chattel one call troll dictator. Our own citizens vilified, our interests debased, scapegoating labels etched everywhere and the nation drank opium of apathy. The nation was never so apathetic as here. It took these blasts in heartland Pakistan to shake the nation up. And now we have a choice of which side to chose.

Surely, while all of FATA and Pakistan’s northwest is angry with musharraf they dont condone this tactic because they suffer from it too just like the families which are affected in other cities of Pakistan.

This can only be stopped by confronting the US administration to back off! We left the threshold of diplomacy and amicable solution acceptable to all like 200 miles behind. Now is time for drastic action. We see a smilar thing in Iraq whre suni militias are fighitng both the alqaeda in Iraq and the US.

These are testing times. If we buy the BS fed to us that the rebels are bad bad bad I am afraid Pakistan’s future is bleak. But if remain clear that principally the insurgency in Pakistan is more moral than any of the governmental hogbogging and that despite the suicide bombers contingent allied with the the tribal fighters, they have suffered more. Pakistan has been betrayed. And we owe them an apology. Not through words, but through mending actions. And no more games. With giving them their due recognition, they will achieve calm and closure.

Then the healing can begin.

Does this not look like Iraq?

Why?

@Tab’an
Does it look familiar? Similarities with Iraq? It is writing on the wall. Musharraf’s plan is obvious. Make Pakistan as weak as possible and then flee the country. We have known this all along since the attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan.

I think the original plan was to deal with Iran first, but the Yankees haven’t been able to weaken the Iranians. They have not been crumbling under pressure like Pakistan. Maybe it is not about pressure in Pakistan’s case, but bribe, corruption, assets in western countries/banks etc. In Pakistan’s case the Yankees has had more success than they could have hoped for. So far they have successfully secured unconditional loyalty from the military and MQM and partly from PML-Q. They have supported the Yankees in all possible ways. Broken the laws in every single case they have been asked for.

These fifth column/Trojan horses will have the ultimate success unless AZ and NS stick to their duty and secure Pakistan as fast as possible. Otherwise we will loose a lot and gain nothing. Sometimes it is better to put up a fight rather than going for a peaceful solutions. If the Yankees are committed in their case against Pakistan, then likewise Pakistan should stay alert and inflict as much damage to the Yankees as possible in case of any misadventure. I think the Yankees will only go after the Pakistani nuclear installations and aerial bombing and no further.

What can Pakistan do? We have a military which is only keen on conquering Pakistan time and again - otherwise it was time to make alliances with Iran and the Taliban and further strengthen ties with China and maybe have some understanding with the Russians. In any case we must NOT rely too much on help from outside. When it is really burning no one will help us. We must clear the mess we have created ourselves as a nation. Let’s start with hanging Musharraf!

/Saqib

@Amaduddin: Sadly, I’d have to agree with your general argument! Because of a one-institution rule (with one person at the head - COAS) we were , in the words of inimitable Imran Khan, “used like a tissue paper” by the United States. As citizens we never raised a voice when the Afghans were being killed first by the russians and then by the US Although I am in NO WAY a supporter of the medieval and mercenary force of Taleban (who were also created by the Pakistani’s and imposed on Afghanistan from outside).

Now, the chicken have come home to roost, and our jurnails have started sending their ‘invaluable’ furniture and their fattened children to their expensive villas in europe and turkey and the Americas (south & north). We, the people of Pakistan are left holding the bag in hand while those who sucke all the life and wealth out of us on the behest of their masters are jumping this sinking ship like the RATS that they are.

@Saqib: ‘what can pakistan do?”

Som have suggested a “meiji” period for Pakistan.

- closing of the borders with forces on nuclear alert.
- Shutdown of foreign spy dens embassies.
- Expulsion or imprisonment of all foreign elements (not journalists and judges u idiots!)
- * MASSIVE purge of senior burueaucrats and army brass.

*Purge means summary courts with immediate execution by firing squad, confiscation of all property of such officials and imprisonment of their family members.

But this will turn the country into a North Korea overnight. But all other venues are quicly closing. The PPP & PML-N avenue will close when the foreigners execute Asif Zardari or Nawaz Sharif in a bid to stall the democratic forces. I really fear for the lives of our leaders.

Pakistani army general’s reckless law breaking behaviour over the past many years are now showing the end result the entire society turning into a lawless society from top to bottom. These horrible suicide attacks
up and down the country began after the most barbaric military action against lal masjid. You can roll back the videos and you will find the leaders of the mosque were threatening with these consequences if attacked.

The man responsible for this horrible state of affairs is Musharraf who is going on threatening even worse to come. He has done so much killings and is threatening a lot more. I fail to understand there is no one in Pakistan who has the courage to apprehend this man and courtmartial him forthwith. I have a feeling that with his removal things may calm down a little

hahah what?

@Taban, Pakistan did not create Taliban nor we imposed them on any one. We facilitated whatever they wanted to do. They were brutes as villagers growing up as 3rd generation refugees with power and no infrastructure would be. But we were not wrong in dealing with them. Just like we dealt with other medieval brutes in china, Iran, Saudi etc… We had our interests. Unfortunately, our military and politiians dumb and duffers that they are (as is becoming apparent every time one sees their interviews) never know how to manage limited objectives.

@ahakimnaz: Agreed. There should be massive massive protests and rallies in Pakistan ALL OVER demanding end to military action in tribal areas, show of solidarity witht he people of those areas. Wide denouncements of Musharraf and his actions. All this alongside demand for free judiciary and media and civil watch dog groups cracking down on embedded corruption. And then impeaching Musharraf and trying him for murder and others like him.

Let Pakistan have its Nuremburg.

@Omer Khan: “Pakistan did not create Taliban nor we imposed them on any one”

I really don’t know what to say.

@Tab’an

“I really don’t know what to say.”

Don’t worry. that’s OK.

@Omar Khan: sure I’m not worried. But do read up on the issue.

@Taban, Pakistan did not create Taliban nor we imposed them on any one. We facilitated whatever they wanted to do. They were brutes as villagers growing up as 3rd generation refugees with power and no infrastructure would be. But we were not wrong in dealing with them. Just like we dealt with other medieval brutes in china, Iran, Saudi etc… We had our interests. Unfortunately, our military and politiians dumb and duffers that they are (as is becoming apparent every time one sees their interviews) never know how to manage limited objectives.

@Omar Khan: And how did u form this opinion?

I’m curious, in a “train-wrecky” sort of way.

this is what happens when generals decide to fight america’s war. They will get away with the money i am sure that they have taken from USA. they will also get away with all their crimes. and people will pay in terms of their lives. but what i do not understand is why do the generals get away with their deeds from the law of nature as well? look at zia and akhtar abdurrehman. thier sons are (were) ministers and enjoying. the generals themselves had a hell of time. why dont they pay for their sins???????

@Tab’an: Well Afghanistan was in shambles, the afghan warlords failed to make a national government and people were dying and getting tired of it all including rapes and so forth. So if the legend is to be believed of thos one mullah umar who after listening to a tale of how a warlord picked up two girls packed several of students from the local seminary loaded two trucks and had the girls released. Their fame spread far and wide and they came to be known as the students. Wheever they went they were greeted and were very popular. BB govt. saw potential in them and supported them with arms instead of others like hekmatyar etc. Their success brought them allegiance of many warlords.

Their tactics were very swift and fascist like. Summary executions of rapists, opponents, prostitutes, crop hoarders, drug lords etc.. everyone asked for their protection against others even the Hazaras.
Then they went retarded and started to impose what they thought were good tings for the people. Ya know “protecting them” from vice. lolz And ofcourse, their patronage of warlords who swore allegiance to them brought them liability as they indulged in massive killings.

They were the best disciplinary force in Afghanistan, even with severe isolation. And definitley had a better track record than any other faction or warlord in Afghanistan. Every one supported them including Karzai, Karzai’s father, US based Afghan negotiators, including Abdul Haq AHmedzai. Karzai even pleaded with the Americans not to bring the northern alliance back as they were worse than the taliban. His own words.

So yes, I dislike the Taliban as would any humanist fo their efficient brutal deeds and what not. That does not mean we could not deal with them. Because after all, we did not boycott Iran after the revolution, we have very good relations with China which was Taliban times 10 and still is a very closed system, or Saudi or hell even today’s Afghanistan government which is still has a worse and dismal performance despite every one being there and billions of dollars of AID and expenditure.

So all that noise about Taliban being pakistani agents was primarily India’s propaganda, along with Afghan exiles in West. Not true. They were an indigenous movement. And they were atleast initially very popular.

@Omar Khan: thanks bro: This give me a clear idea of how you came to form these opinions.

I disagree with the premise that we merely ‘facilitated’ .. this was an ISI operation through and through and it was closely linked to the whole “strategic depth” doctrine. I call it the “eHmaQaana bhagoRaa pan doctrine” but that is just me.

Comparing Iran and China to Taleban:

No offense but these views seem heavily FOX (or neo-con media) influenced. I really don’t know how one can compare Taliban to China. It is like saying a soap dish is a kind of a gunboat because both are kind of curved and might float given the righ circumstances… it just doesn’t jive ..

Anyhoo, thanks for taking the time to indulge my curiosity. I disagree with your premise, and would re-iterate that they were a Pakistani creation through and through (ISI mainly) Please see Gul boy ’s interviews and various books on this subject. We’ll have to agree to disagree but I think your formulations are off the mark in this case.

@Tab’an; And I would assert they were not. They were Afghans who grew up in refugee camps. They were young men who had only seen war and blood. They were not created by the ISI. They were definitely assisted and by BB and Nasrullah babur no less, but that’s just stating truism but it was no conspiracy, much like Pakistan’s support of Hekmatyar or others was no conspiracy. It would be like saying that different warlords with different orientation to respective neighbours were created by those intelligence agencies. If there had been no Taliban, Pakistan was getting by fine just supporting pro Pakistan warlords.

The doctrine of strategic depth, simply stated that with pakistan’s heavy investment in Afghanistan, and the massive flux of refugee ppulation being hosted by Pakistan, gives Pakistan a watchamacallit “right” or justifiable concerns to make sure Afghanistan does not fall into the wrong hands. Very legitimate concern and argument. Problem was when Generals witht he Busharraf-like-troll over zealous mentality (think Kargil) took this as an appanage to dictate Afghan affairs. Ofcourse no Afghan whether pro Pakistan or anti is gonna let that happen. That’s their history. That was the mistake. Our failure to to make sure the Taliban or student movement does not get other ulterior benefactors and our failure to convince Taliban to be smart after all, their and indeed our enemies’ propaganda machinery was always much more effective componded with coup and 58-2bs being applied numerous times. This is not to say that Taliban’s failures were not entirely their own. They were.

And I would definitely compare Taliban to Iran and China. It is a very apt comparison. I could compare to many other places as well. Iran too saw numerous executions, brutality and suppression after the Islmaic (or Islamofascist as they efer to it ) evolution. That with Iran’s string middle class and not seeing even one twentieth of Afghanistan’s desruction. Same thihg: destruction of persepolis and pre islamic heritage, banning of “unislamic” names, brutal enforcement of dress codes, banning o music, stoning to death, chopping o heads, almost everything. The human right watch groups dockets are full of them. And ofcourse the massacres done by the Chinese of their own populace as well as non Han Chinese has few comparisons in history. By comparison taliban are saints even at heir worst. Saddam’s Iraq another compariosn lolz

Don’t buy into the hype like the rest of the sheeples.

In any event the point being if we can deal with current Afghan govt. which is much more brutal than taliban, and with coutires like Iraq, China and Iran some of whom are our “best freinds” then berating Taliban because they were brutal is a very cavernous argument. Like Swiss cheese.

And I should mention, that many Afghan exiles in the US are the nostalgic pro king Zahir Shah. They are like the Iranian immigrants though much less venomous. Still, they did effective lobbying against Taliban and Pakistan and were indeed supported by u know who.

Like the Iranians in the US, first thing that happens to them after they leave the Islamic republic of Iran is they grow wings. oh yes. Dokhtaran e Iroon especially. oh wow. And second thing is they hate Iran witht he bottom of their hearts. Well not Iran but Islamic republic of Iran. When Shirin ebadi was here lecturing at varous schools like UCLA entire persian student assoc. was out with placards Nuke Iran, Bomb Iran hahah . Whew! wutta siht.

Sure it is a butal police state, but it has greatly matured and improved over the years and is one stable theocratic democracy in the region. But haters know no end.

Tab’an Khamosh
Some have suggested a “meiji” period for Pakistan.

But this will turn the country into a North Korea overnight. But all other venues are quickly closing….

I would at least add:
- Undoing ALL privatization carried out not only by Mush but Nawaz and BB in their previous stints.
- Include politicians and businessmen in that MASSIVE purge
- Declare all foreign loans on which principal say 20% has been paid as having been paid in full.
- Etc., etc.
But will any</i of these steps be taken? Not a chance. And what does that portend?

Correction:

…”Taliban to be smart after all, their and indeed our enemies’ propaganda machinery was always much more effective componded with coup and 58-2bs being applied numerous times”

And our impotence compounded with internal instability, coups and 58 2 Bs which neer engendered a stable govt. and hence regional policy. And ofcourse MI, ISI is not capable of that eiher.

LOL @nota and taban
Let’s all celebrate arbitrary whims!

Cheers!

@Omar Khan: I never said they weren’t Afghans, I said they were an ISI creation. For anyone to even pretend that Benazir or any other feeble and crippled ‘democratic’ govts had any say in this whole strategic shebang is to be dis-ingenuous at best.

Again, just because two states engage in superficially similar activities does not mean they are historical equivalents. Iranian revolution was a homegrown massive reaction to the historical developments starting at least in the mid 50’s. Taleban was an outside force (Afghan yes) injected into afghanistan for proxy control of that country. They were no revolutionaries. A lot of radical regimes engage in brutal activities (french in algeria and the Khmer Rouge eg;) but that doesn’t make them historically equivalent.

Taleban was a Pakistani reaction to the resurgent Indian influence (via Northern Alliance) in Afghanistan and the fact that ISI had started to pretend Afghanistan was its backyard. Well, if Taleban were as home grown as you suggest, then why were they in a bitter death struggle with the non-muhajereen Afghans? .. the people who had been fighting all along? You know why? because ISI didn’t have directo control of the players anymore. They had been proxies for Americans and they now wanted proxy control of Afghanistan and this is why Taleban force was created.

Don’t tell me you believe the BS that a force of thousands of men can materialize out of Afghan Camps (with heavy armored weapons) out of thin air without ISI or Pakistan having anything to do with it. Not only that, they crossed the borders in the thousands with logistical support from the Pakistan Army and ISI. To pretend that didn’t happen is to overlook historical facts.

Also, there is active AIPAC & Pro Israel support to the surviving son of Shah and he runs a radio station and all kinds of stuff to rile up the “royalists” Irani’s quite a few of whom are in California. Now, you can take that “demonstration” as a genuine expression of a cross section of Iranian diaspora or you can analyze it a bit and maybe keep in mind the demographic and ideological make up of the people (mainly ex-royalists) would be inclined to engage in “bomb-iran” type demonstrations.

Seriously, I assume you are a pakistani, would you engage in “bomb-Pakistan” demonstrations regardless of the atrocities committed by the military regimes against you? I know I wont and our family and myself were targetted by Zia’s regime. And finally, you are overlooking the role of ‘agent provocateurs’ in any such war-mongering that goes on especially in the States.

@Omar Khan: Arbitrary whims are just as good as broad brushed unsubstantiated regurgitation of yellow western press.
cheers bro!

@TK, BB did do a lot of stuff in her short corrupt tenure as did Nawaz. It would be a grave mistake and reckless to assume that every politician in Pakistan o every civilian govt. in Pakistan is an abject puppet of this esoteric intelligence cabal. We wouldn’t have coups if that were the case.

Well we agree that Taliban were Afhan young men who grew up in refugee camps. And they were never imposed. I feel I am being redundant here, but it is important you understand that Taliban were no reaction to India, neither were they anything difrent than the Mujahideen. These young men had fought the Soviets, but weren’t major warlords. If Pakistan couldn’t capitulate competing Afghan warlords witht he well established ones, then how couldthese newbies who arrived on the scene could? Answer is because they were seen as more just, saviors, protectors and a new force in the country. People welcomed them wherever they went, and warlords joined mainly because of lack of options. Iran was supporting some factions, Uzbekistan/Turkey were supporting others, and India was quite insignificant in the region until much much later. So no one can ever deny that Taliban were embraced by Pakistan’s shakers and movers with the head honcho at the ante and were given all kinds of support. But to deny Taliban’s own initial charisma and the incredible feats they achieved is unfair.

And my comparison of Iran and taliban is not on the essence of the movements, my comparison is with the nature of the State, it’s actions on its populace and the toll of such events. And as a corollary the foolhardy premise of some lofty Pakistani progressives (don’t get rebellious here, I don’t mean you) with which they decried taliban because of their brutality. Condemning brutal actions by pvt. groups is one thing regardless of where it happens (China, Turkey, Iraq Cuba) but to lobby the government and god forbid if the government itself takes this zonked out argument to dictate foreign relations is well self sabotage. Because the alternate is even worse. I say this because in BUsharraf’s U tun and other hyppocrisys, is lickspittles did hype up this aspect as a reason.

Reagarding the Iranians: overwhelmingly they whther exiles of yore or current immigrants hardly anyone has anything good to say about Iran. though the the ones which lobby washington for regime change are a small affluent minority. Anyways, my point being Iran is much better and freer and lax today than it was 20 years ago.

Anyways, those are Taliban for ya.

And oh, LOLZ people here I think love musharrafism or lack of a better word maoism subconsciously.

What’s he slogan of the Day?: jiye musharraf? hehe

yellow journalistic regurgitated claptrap indeed.

@Omar Khan: well it wasn’t me who equated Taliban with China (Fer crying out loud man).

Also, we can have a pi$$ing match all day long and not achieve anything if the objective of the conversation is (for some at least) to have a debate for the sake of the same. I think we are really not exploring the issue anymore and like I said, agree to disagree. But the belief that Taliban were not a creature of the ISI and Pakistan is patently wrong and feebly defended at best.

I don’t understand your musharrafism vs. Maoism reference. I regret nothing more than engaging in useless non-exploratory ‘conversation’.

cheers.

@ Dear TK.

I find your passive aggressiveness amusing. I think we had a good exchange here. Every one will at least get some food for thought from this.