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March 31, 2008
March 31, 2008
Discuss: Education
Please recommend any solutions for improvement and fixing of Education system in Pakistan.
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I think we need to get rid multiple class education system.
A-O Level
AKU Board
Govt Board - Eng
Govt Board - Urdu
Madarassa
We need to stop this class divide, one thing for the rich and resourceful other for the poor. Just have one system for all, like in India.
Create a curriculum which is current, relevant, accurate and addresses the needs of this century. Stop teaching twisted history and irrelevant facts..14 points of Nehru and Baluchistan ka raqba ..who cares!
Personally I would like to discuss education. I have noticed that state of public (government) education is so bad, that anybody who can afford Rs 50 per month, would send their kid to a PRIVATE school which charges Rs 50 a month, instead of sending it to a Govt school.
You walk into a community in Urban areas, and you will find schools from
Rs 200 a month to 10.000 a month. The old saying is
“As you sow so shall you reap”
So what kind of generation we will get in next 15 years?
From Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf’s constitution:
-Freedom for Women - Free education up to Matric fro girls from poor households.
-Launch an Education Revolution to promote universal literacy and raise the standard of education in our schools, colleges and universities.
-To introduce a uniform system of quality education and to develop core curriculum for all strata of society and to discourage elitism.
-To work at the grass root level for mass literacy and education, for setting up basic health facilities, for building and maintenance of infrastructure and to educate people in better civic facilities and sanitation.
———————————————————————————————————-
In nutshell, there should be a uniform standardized syllabus created to be used nation-wide is government, private schools alike. If India can come up with a standardized syllabus, CBSE, then why can’t we.
Education should not be the means of segregating the society by providing two different mediums of education according to the social class. English should be taught in government school as it is taught in private schools designed for Brown Sahabs. However, it does not mean Urdu should be forgotten. Urdu should be continued, along with other national languages such as Pustu, and Sindhi etc in the classrooms depending on the geographic location.
Education should be free, as in ‘freedom’, for students from lower-middle class families. This can be done by increasing education budget, and by decreasing the military budget. If there is still more monetary support required, is should be generated from taxing the Brown Sahabs.
Defining to what extent education should be free, as much as possible. In Cuba, not just high schools, but colleges, and universities are free to attend, and they provide quality education. But, in general, education until high school should be at least free.
As stated in Tehreek-e-Insaf’ constitution, there should be education revolution launched. Basically, that revolution is to speed the process of establishing government schools that would provide quality education to the majority of suppressed Pakistanis.
Madrasses should be integrated in high schools. In other words, religious education should be provided side-by-side with social, behavorial, and natural science education. This would also eliminate the “fact” that Madrassas preach extremism.
The bottom line is that where we see our children, our next generation in the future. Do we want them to be educated, professors, engineers, doctors, lawyers, researchers, and scholars so they can transform the county in the future? Surely, we what that. So, to achieve that, there needs to be an emergency implemented, educational emergency, to empower the youth for tomorrow, so they can lead the country, and the world towards future.
God Bless Pakistan.
AOA Everyone,
I want to share an idea with all of you which we have implemented successfully Alhamdulilah.
I graduated from Mehran University (MUET) Jamshoro in 2004. We had a class of about 43. And through internet we are still in touch with each other.
We wondered, if each of us just contribute 100 Rs per month then we can easily collect about 50, 000 Rs Annually. And this is quite enough to support at least one bright but financially disadvantaged student to graduate from our university which is currently 2nd best in Pakistan.
And I know that most of engineering universities of Pakistan cost about 30K to 50K annually (tution fee accommodation). This idea can also be applied to support College or School students whose cost is much lower than this. A college student will normally requrie 15K and school going student will need about 10K annually to complete his/her education.
So, if you have a group of friends (which I’m sure everybody has) then please advocate this idea and establish a fund in your university, college, school or in community to support poor students to complete their education.
Or if you are not supporting any student, then you can initiate one time fund raising and donate Books, Computer(s), Furniture etc for schools, colleges or universities.
You can use the forms, brochure and other material we have developed by us to implement the similar project in your viscinity without any hesitation. Beside if you need any help or want to discuss something regarding this, you are most welcome and you can approach me on my email address given here:
http://fahimumrani.googlepages.com/2kesscholarshipfoundation
Thanks for reading
Regards
It should be a requirement on all government employees (including Grade 21-22 and ministers ) and army personnel to send their kids to government schools. That should help elevate the status of government schools.
Ideally, there should not be any Army Public School and Ranger Public School..these should be just Public Schools. Everyone having equal access to these schools.
Another practical approach would be to require all Private schools to give admission to 25% of poor. Not just that..require them to give free tuition, free books, free uniforms, and a monthly allowance.
Just today was a letter in Dawn..one school in Karachi has increased its fees to Rs 10,000 per month.
Education should be declared a non-profit sector. No school should be allowed to make any profit.
@rasheed
I don’t think in a democracy you would like to make it a non-profit sector. There should be a minimum standard to be met by all schools. A consistent syllabus for all the kids.
There can be fancy schools, but schooling should be free of cost (all inclusive i.e. uniform, transportation, books etc) Poor families should get allowance for sending their kids to school.
I definitely agree that multiple class system of education needs to be eradicated. However I do believe that one special class would benefit the country overall.
Think about it … some students are exceptionally bright and by not fully training them we might just be wasting that talent. Students could only be permited to get admission to this higher program school (in Canada we call them IB schools or IB program) based on talent and NOT financial status. They should not be given preference in jobs but instead these would be the upcomming scientists and people in the research area. The goal is not create a privillage class but instead to pinpoint future technology leaders … *getting read to be flamed*… its just an idea I am throwing out and ready to hear criticism on it…..:)
What I meant was, focus of educational institutions should not be making money rather a noble purpose of giving education.
IN USA, the top universities are private ( MIT, Harvard, Stanford). These do make money, however that money is invested back into the education system. It does not goes into personal bank account of the ‘owners’.
@Admins
Is this discussion going to result in anything. Is there a way to relay some concrete suggestions from this discussion to the new Education Minister- Ahsan Iqbal.
@Rashid and Admin
I was wondering the same thing. Can some of these suggestions be relayed from energy, education, economics etc
Some suggestions
1- Education should be given in mother tongues, Balochi, sindhi, punjabi and pushto.
2- The teaching and training of “Teachers” must be ensured.
3- The respect of Teachers and Students must be ensured.
4- Facilities to conduct extra curricular must be provided.
5- The quality of infrastructure in existing schools/colleges/universities must be improved.
One solution to the ‘ghost school’ problem could be that instead of a lot of tiny schools in close proximity, we could have one well kept school where children from far away can be bused in. This will allow the government to keep check on the quality of education provided.
Instead of one ‘master sahaab’ teaching all subjects from class 1 to 10, we could have more specialised teacher who are dedicated.
What do you guys think? Also what about improving the quality of urban public schools?
I am NOT a fan of Musharraf hence please not jump on me. However, I really like the performance of Dr. Atta and HEC (Higher Education Commission). They are establishing new European universities in Pakistan with their collaboration which is great and they have also send few 1000s for PhD abroad. I am one of them. I am afraid that if new Govt. stop that funding then what look like a real revolution created by HEC team will go in drain.
I wish new Govt to support Dr. Atta and even increase funding of HEC if possible. If HEC continue to work like the war it is working currently then we will have real change after next 10 years. Remember education is long term investment.
The backbone of the education system are teachers, real teachers should be paid very attractive. Rest of the people in the same profession should learn that only experienced, well trained and productive teachers are being well paid therefore if they would like to compete in his field; they should also be equipped with these qualities.
The teachers should be well trained not only for how to teach specific subjects but also for how to tackle different type of students in the class. I mean to say that instructors should understand student’s psychology, identify their weaknesses, guide them how to over come, improve in different areas.
Quality of the books should be improved, example : In USA average cost of Engineering book is around USD 50, whereas the same book in its Indian edition is for USD 10-15 USD. We should avoid book piracy, which bring the price down but also brings the quality of the printing very low as well.
More Engineering Universities and medical colleges should be opened in Pakistan. According to the merit system mostly 90% and above students go to Engg Universities and Medical colleges, there are some students who are average who even do not think about these schools. But there is another class of students who are above average but below toppers, which get ignored very badly. Finally they are forced to change their field instead of Engineering to Commerce. I have seen many examples that students ignored from Pakistan system have been Gold Medalist in other countries, like USA, Turkey, UK.
We also need to work with our kids; teachers and parents are equally responsible for this assignment. We should find out the best capability of our kid/student. We should not only push them for Engineering and Medical fields, there are number of other fields which can be choused for career.
Ya U R right.
Only 3 good things that mush has given to this nation R
1)Local bodies system
2)Dr. atta-ur-rehman revoutionary ideas of HEC and NIP
3)Relatively fair elections 2008.
(with some corrections)
I am NOT a fan of Musharraf hence please not jump on me. However, I really like the performance of Dr. Atta and HEC (Higher Education Commission). They are establishing new European universities in Pakistan with their collaboration which is great. Furthermore,they have also send few 1000s students for PhD abroad. I am one of them. I am afraid, that if new Govt. will stop that funding to HEC then what looks like a real revolution created by HEC team will go in drain.
I wish new Govt to support Dr. Atta and even increase funding of HEC if possible. If HEC continues to work like the way it is working currently then we will have real change after next 10 years. Remember education is long term investment.
Dr Atta ur Rehman has damaged our whole education system. The amount of money he invested in useless PhD‘s should have been better put into in our school system. We don’t need useless scholars who can sit down in their AC offices and dictate their useless knowledge. We need good teachers at school level.
What a shame that a 30 year old man is supported by a HEC and given £50 ,000 pounds for the PhD WHICH WILL HAVE NO USE IN OUR COUNTRY. For this much money you can educate thousands of poor students in school.
In western world 30 year old man/woman become great entrepreneurs and create jobs and bring change in others lives.
Remember we don’t need doctors and engineers; we need humans in our country with better values and morals who work with honesty and integrity. To do that we need good schools not doctors or engineers.
Revolutionary Measure to rectify all ilss.
.
Close all urdu medium and governemt owned schools forever.
if any one want his children to educate, he should go to english medium, or if he cant afford, it is better to save his money and not send his kids to urdu medium school. urdu medium education is wastage of that poor man’s hardly earned savings.
universities should be closed for 10 years
so that already master degree holders can get a job. dont produce jobless master degree holders , dont produce master degree holder taxi drivers , cashiers and ware house labours for canada and america. in this way we are helping their economy.
@SomeOne
“I really like the performance of Dr. Atta and HEC (Higher Education Commission). They are establishing new European universities in Pakistan with their collaboration which is great. Furthermore,they have also send few 1000s students for PhD abroad. I am one of them.”
Let’s not put personal benefit before everything else. I find Dr Hoodbhoy’s arguments more convincing than those of HEC’s. Here are some issues raised by Dr. Hoodbhoy:
Sham university reforms
HEC’s unconvincing mega projects
It should be a law like all the officials flying abroad use PIA so should be the case in education. No private schooling for ministers/high officials. They should all attend the government institutions. Standards will improve.
@nota
I know many of those so called PHds program, who are not planning to go back. Few of might will go, but I don’t think it will change any thing. I generally agree with Dr. Hoodbhoy, but some people call him American agent
[I don']
The stupid money should have been spent on the elementary to hight schools, not on the grownups, which is already part of a corrupt system,
@Busy bee
one of the best proposals that I have seen in long time.
they would not do that bcos if they do then who ll vote for these usurpers.
Remember who was failed Eqbal Ahmed in setting up a university i nPakistan
democratic government sof 1990’s
@ajnabi larki from canada
your comments are as stupid as your name
- ‘Close all urdu medium and governemt owned schools forever’ - Do you know that majority of poor people’s children go to these schools? who have no other choice and the only fgorm ofeducation available?
- ‘universities should be closed for 10 years’ - all i can say is that you are much more stupid than your name!!!
- ‘dont produce master degree holder taxi drivers , cashiers and ware house labours’ - Education is the basic need for any one may it be taxi driver, cashier etc etc. dont relate it to ‘earning potential’ I also know number of doctors and engineers who went to urdu medium schools
-
Prof Hoodbhoy is a stupid person and I know it first hand. I am sorry but I have to say it.
I really dislike him a lot and most of his arguments. He came to LUMS and told us that we cannot be a good researcher until we are not atheists (like him). If he give such arguments and I do not call him stupid then tell me what else he is?
so far All the PhD/HEC students from Germany have gone back and I do not know anyone who do not wish to go back. Secondly, it is not at all personal for me it is already near to end and I do not need their funding. But please think about 7/8 world class Universities they are planning to make in Pakistan. For example TU-Lahore from German collaboration and KTH campus in Sialkot (from Sweden collaboration) and many good European Universities in Karachi. People will start coming to Pakistan from other countries for PhD instead of Pakistanis going abroad.
Can you read German then read following URL because I feel so proud to read this. http://www.daad-magazin.de/07952/index.html
@econfused SirLanka has around 90.7% literacy rate [1] but because they have not spend on research hence they are far behind. We must spend on research for making a mark in the world. If we could produce “only few thousand” very good researchers they will take Pakistan to next level (believe me). I do not disagree that elementary level is also very important and I myself wish to make a free school. But please do not underestimate the power of research.
[1] https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ce.html#People
@econfused on April 1st, 2008 1:43 pm
“I know many of those so called PHds program, who are not planning to go back.”
Thank you for bringing up that point. I wish I had the numbers as to how many were sent out vs. how many came back after gaining their PHD’s. For the sake of argument let’s agree that this is a good program (I don’t think it is) should it not be a requirement that these people come back and teach here for at least five years?
@srao
@listen
Certainly agree with you!
@someone
I did not say good researches are not required, but I have seen PHDs doing nothing and sitting on their ass. Hoodbhoy is right and you just did not get what he was trying to convey. You call him stupid because he seems to an atheist?
That is your standard for any man? HEC is trying to catch up with Phd number games. As I said my personal experience with so called Phds is different. plagiarism is more common.
The spending is basic schooling is way to go. Extremism on either side is bad, right now major portion is spent on HEC nothing on basic.
@econfused “Extremism on either side is bad, right now major portion is spent on HEC nothing on basic.”
I agree with that and yes we should increase spending on elementary schools too.
But how can they sit on their asses? I do not get. HEC says that they will come to Pakistan and will be given 3 years period to publish 10 Journal paper (in A class Journal) and get a permanent job. Do you really think doing quality research is nothing? Do not you agree that mostly western have progress because of new technology. At least I will go to Pakistan and make my own company. I will at least give jobs to many other and that was never possible (or easy) without HEC support.
I do not call Dr. Hoodbhoy stupid because he is atheist. I called him stupid because he told us to be atheist and “Stop believing in Duwa” otherwise, we cannot be a better researcher. He think there is cause and effect only in this world and Muslims cannot be a good research because they believe in Duwa from God which is against Cause-And-effect. His all arguments on the seminar at LUMS was so stupid that I cannot listen to him any more. Sorry…..
@someone
You can have your opinion about Hoodbhoy, for me he is an excellent person and a great researcher. I might disagree with his certain ideas but in general he is a knowledgeable person.
Once again your thought process is at “personal” level. I can give countless examples where people did not go back. As for the impact, we have yet to see.
@econfused all of them has gone back. All of my senior batches people who have completed their PhDs have gone back.
My family house is a guarantee for HEC to take away if I do not go back. Do you think I or anyone like me can do that? Tell me how please??
Please be a member of groups like
– hec_overseas@yahoogroups.com
– pakistan_daad@yahoogroups.com
– research-network@yahoogroups.com
In those groups most of the HEC students can be found. Ask them if they know anyone who has not gone back and given away his house or property. After that tell me too how to accomplish this near impossible mission of not going back.
@SomeOne
So how many of those are teaching? And at what institution??
@nota It will take time to collect stats for you. However, whenever there is a News that a new person has finished his PhD then usually I receive email of it on hec_overseas@yahoogroups.com.
I have not all of those email saved but you can send a new email at hec_overseas@yahoogroups.com. I hope someone might reply with stats.
@SomeOne
Thanks
I think we cant determine who will go back or who will not go back.
For example:
I personally know a guy who was working for SUPARCO, he was sent to Germany with all fees and every thing. He studied there for a year than he came to UK as a student, I accidently met him working at tesco’s till!!
A friend came here for Masters without any government scholarship and he got distinction, and then started his PHD as he was employed by his Uni. He is one of the youngest PHD doctor and was working for a Uni in UK, he even got a lectureship in Warwick Business School but he moved back to pakistan in 2007 so he can teach Pakistanis.
Last year another friend of mine came to Cambridge Uni for his MPhil in Computer Science on British Council Scholarship and he has already started preparing to go back even though he has still 6 months left.
As a country we can’t stop sending people for higher education because they are not coming back, instead HEC can introduce certain checks so after finishing studies they go back to Pak. They can have agreements with foreign countries that they will send these graduates back, I am sure this can be done.
I am not gonna name names
We should talk about these researchers after 10 years.
I am sure those will be MOST (ministry of science and technology) researchers. It is because with HEC (which has replaced MOST). We have
1- Only less than 10 people have finished their PhDs
2- All have gone back.
If someone is planning to stay then we cannot say how can they do it.
It is because it is HEC responsibility to confiscate their property (arrest the personal guaranteer) and make them pay hard.
HEC is not a police force, after all people got rights. We are not in a military state anymore. Confiscation of property seems more like an FCR regulation.
But they can ask foriegn countries to send these graduates back!! I am sure this can be arranged.
Each HEC scholar writes on Stamp-paper that in case of violation of agreement with HEC they can confiscate his property and also provide HEC all documents of his property. Furthermore, he has to provide personal guarantee from someone in service.
HEC reserves the rights to confiscate the property in case of violation of signed agreement. I think any court in that case will give order in favor of HEC. It does not matter who actually do it at the end FCR or FIA or someone else….
hahahahah
@someone you are funny. Those bonds don’t hold in a court of law. All they can is the actual cost, and that might also be installments. People have been there done that.
Those will be MOST people and not HEC. HEC != MOST
Shameful !!
Here was a good effort by Admin to start something positive and we have turned this into a useless back and forth between @Someone and @EveryoneElse.
How can we expect something good when the ‘educated’ behave like this. This is what we call Parhay Likhay Jahil
The intent and name of this forum is Solutions not bickering. Express your point of view and then move on.
Here is what I think:
Our immediate focus should be on quality and accessible primary and secondary education for ALL. We should not neglect higher education and professional colleges, however that’s not the need of the hour. Most places in the world higher education is not supported by the government. IN US, people take personal loans for Medical, Law, and Engineering schools.
We need to tackle the education crises bottom up not top down.
Having few hundred PHDs and few thousand doctors won’t solve our national problem.
@Fahim23: this is a great idea. I think you should document the process of how to set up a scholarship foundation. I have been thinking of doing the same but for primary school children especially girls. We need as many basically educated women (right now infants) as possible.
Another thing would be to setup public libraries. If anyone has set up libraries in Pakistan, or knows how to go about it. Please write your experiences here or links to relevant information. Much appreciated.
TCF is a very good organization. I have only heard good things about their operation. You can start a school , library or just support a child.
http://www.thecitizensfoundation.org/
The Citizens Foundation
1) Teach English & Arabic as second languages not as subjects, emphasizing especialy on their listening & speaking skills.
2) Have one system of eductaion atleast upto grade 12.
3) Emphasize on IQ building of students, especially grade 5 & lower. Which plays most important role in ones grooming for rest of the life.
4) Raise the salary structure & minimum qualification required for teachers of grade 5 & lower. Encourage innovation in teaching to the young kids.
5) Encourage the industry for sponssrhips of the projects in universities & evolove the university subject as per the industry requirements.
@rashid
Thats what I have been trying to convey. Just not good with words
“Our immediate focus should be on quality and accessible primary and secondary education for ALL.”
Thats is the need of hour, which will give us a better nation in 20 years.
@Rashid & @econfused: I agree totally with the primary education approach.
We need to have 4 pillars of this system:
1. Dedicated, ideological teachers who believe in the concept of grass-roots education
2. A comprehensive Primer made ubiquitous This is the crux of the system
4. Network of Primary schools
3. A system of basic libraries to go with each primary school. Each student in the primary school gets access to the library during and after graduation.
The so called “Primer” will be more like a book. It would start with simple things and will incorporate things like gulistan/bostan, simple maths, religious readings (Quran and Ahadith), some classic readings, native stories (tons and tons) from pakistani culture etc.
The idea is to have a self contained booklet which even the primary educated women can use to teach their children basic literacy.
Also, the idea is to make kids independent thinkers as soon as possible. (by age 10/11) and give them a thirst for more knowledge which they could quench by visiting the library. The Libraries will be stocked with at least one daily newspaper. And with Urdu versions of the classics of our civilization (History, philosophy, etc) encyclopedias etc. We shouldn’t think people won’t understand. Let them see all these wonders and this will create more desire in them to learn on their own.
So the idea is to let people increase their general literacy on their own after getting the basic tools (reading/writing) which should be enough after 5 years of education. If we can get our kids to just have this much basic level of education, we’ll see a drastic change in the attitudes of our Nation.
@TK
There has to be a financial incentive for poor families. The financial assistance should be minimum what a child labor ( I know its ILLEGAL, but walk around) would make.
Poor/Uneducated families won’t go for it unless the Education is essentially and free and comes with a financial incentive.
The money for financial incentive for education in budget should be atleast equal to the amount set asside for Fauji Pensions. If you recall its close to 50 billion Rs.
@econfused: good point.. hard to think about education when you’re the only “earner”… gawd we’re so screewed!
@someone
“But how can they sit on their asses? I do not get. HEC says that they will come to Pakistan and will be given 3 years period to publish 10 Journal paper (in A class Journal) and get a permanent job”.
Are you dreaming are something. I myself a very very active researcher and hold a phd from oxford.i did it when i was only 24. and now i am 30 and have already supervise 3 successful PhD’s. i have never seen anybody in my life publishing 10 papers in A1 journals in 10 years let alone in three………
I have already recommended Ahsan Iqbal to have full audit of the HEC accounts. i will be seeing him very soon and hopefully we will transfer all that money from higher education commission to primary education and schools and then college education.
Lower education Commission or Basic Education commission will be launched very soon.
@listen
Great, so we have an actual PH.d on the forum. What is your personal view point. Do we need to throw more money into HEC or more to basic education infrastructure?
No amount of money will fix this problem. What you need is a single system applied everywhere in the country. If every country in the world can do it, why can’t we. Have a K through 12 system and then provide a undergraduate (4 year college) and post graduate (2 year college) degree system like they have in the US.
There is absolutely no need to invest any money into HEC…….its totally useless…….
Its the school education system which require changes. as i said earlier …….we dont need doctors/engineers/……we need humans who act like humans and work with honesty and integrity…….And you can teach them only at school level.
Most of the professors in pakistan are uselss and that includes Dr Atta-ur-Rehamn………I still have a great admiration for the teachers who taught me in school…they are the one who transformed my life……i went to a good school in pakistan ….which helped me a lot through out my higher education in uk and then in my career……..
Just to add to that ….i went to an urdu medium school and then did all my higher education from UK…That includes bsc,msc,phd……..now i am teaching in one of UK ’s very presitigious university….but i still believe ….my school teachers were great …i wish everbody get the same or better school education in pakistan……..
@listen
The question is the opportunities which you had as kid, you think it is available on average to everybody at that time and now? If we take you an example, then we can say we already have basic infrastructure?
Well…. that’s exactly what I meant……….all we need is to strengthened the current infrastructure…….train school teachers………provide better facilities…..Inject more and more money………no need to start from zero……
i strongly believe the opportunities i had were available to every lower middle class or even poor pakistani kid. my classmates were sons of taxi drivers, shopkeepers, plumbers….and now they all are very very successful in their lives……
@listen
I would strongly disagree that opportunities are available to everybody. Schools need basic infrastructure. Our personal experiences might be different, but I have done Matric from a big town a long time ago. Every student was suppose to bring his own chair.
I doubt much has changed since then. Obviously this is an example from a town, villages will have different story and urban areas will have different.
We need to come up with Basic facilities for every single school. There should always be private schools with all the fancy stuff, but minimum syllabus should be set for all schools.
facilities and infrastructure are two separate things………i agree with you that there arent any facilitites in villages especially in interior sindh and balochistan……..thats why i said we should inject more money into lower education system……..money will provide facilities………..
“Emergency Education” can be one good starting point……..
Now I am just being sarcastic. If facilities and education are two separate things, then I guess we can just train the soldiers, and no need to give the guns and stuff.
Basic education infrastructure need tons of money and reform. As I said earlier, you have to find the number of private schools in each locality. Schools spring up like mushrooms. It is because govt has failed miserably in basic education sector. We need to tackle this on War footing.
We are used to with emergency in government, Lets experiment it in other walks of life, education can be the top priority.
We are talking about teachers but not parents(primary teachers). Do have refresher courses for parents, that why eductaion is important for their kids? Create an awareness in parents. If you wanna make emergency eductaion a success.
Awareness among masses, awareness, awareness & awareness. Do let the people know how they can help themselves & solve their basic problems, Do sit with them, do listen to them if you(govt) wanna a better tomorrow for them(people).
And if not then you(govt) can impose your pre-fabricated solutions on them.
@listen “The amount of money he invested in useless PhD‘s”
@listen “Most of the professors in pakistan are uselss and that includes Dr Atta-ur-Rehamn”
listen..are you even a graduate?
I am totally against Mush, but not acknowledging his appointment of Dr. Atta as a good step would be totally unfair..the PhD programme launched by Dr Atta is a remarkable attempt, Many of talented youngs are studying in Europe and committed to go back and serve…Hoodbhoy character has always been suspicious and his views are strange on every matter
For betterment at school eduacation, if you wanna contribute “The Citizens Foundation” is doing a gr8 job..check there videos on youtube and their website.
@TK
We received very good response and found it very easy to implement this idea, and I am sure when you will take such initiative, you too will InshALLAH experience same. I have advantage of being in close contact with the faculty of my department, so I easily got their support but that support is not essential. You and your friends can do everthing from inviting applications to final screening.
Following is the 7-point strategy outline you will need to carry out in order to implement scholarship foundation or one time fund rasing:
1- Set your objectives, either to support:
A- School going Girl(s)/Boys for 10 years. (Funding needed: 12K per year)
B- College going Girls/Boys for 2 years. (Funding needed: 20K per year)
C- University going Girls/Boys for 4 years. (Funding needed: 50K per yr)
D- One time fund raising for donating Computer, Books, Furniture, Infrastructure (toilets, fans, laboratory equipment etc)
2- Approach your friends/relatives/colleagues and convince them to be part of this program. If you want to support one school going girl and you are employed then I reckon you won’t need any one. You can do it all alone.
3- If needed establish bank account and deposit funding.
4- Outline selection criteria, eligibility, application forms, and terms and conditions for the scholarship. You can use ours or get help from any scholarship foundation.
5- Design the brochures outlining, how to apply, who can apply, where to apply etc. (400 Rs. for 1000 copies that quite enough!)
6- Locate the school/college or university you want to support.
7- Approach the faculty of schools, colleges or universities to cooperate with you in taking applications and interviews for the final selection of the recipient. Or, you can also invite the application at your home and your friends can form interview panel to short list and select the candidate.
I hope this help. If you need any further clarification, you are most welcome to approach me through my personal id or on this forum.
Good luck and my best wishes for you with your future project!
@Asif
As fas as I have understood the psyche of our nation, it is not that they don’t want or like their kids to go to schools, but either the sheer unavailability or their financial condition force them to make their kids work and earn!
One of the most respected person in our society used to be “Ustaad, Ustaaz, Saeen, Aakhund” all meaning Teacher. We used to consider a teacher equivalent to our parent. It is only in last few decades, we have made a teacher most disrespected personality of our society.
I have always studied in government schools, and have experienced the devotion of my teachers who had just one sweater for 7 years, 2 pairs of shoes throughout my career. I have also unfortunately experienced their utter disrespect when they were forced to borrow money from the parents of their students to feed their family. Its only since then a “master” became abuse. And anyone who is considered incompetent opts to become school master. And now unfortunately, there are teachers in our school, who don’t deserve to be respected.
@Fahim23: Thanks a lot bro, if you guys can put together a howto with this information on ur website, it will help other ppl who want to do something like this.. just an idea. I will definitely look through your site and get some ideas (hopefully I’d be able to help your project as much as I can as well).
You are doing god’s work and this will benefit many generations of our compatriots! Congratulations to you and your friends for taking the nitiative and becoming examples for other Pakistanis like me. Cheers bro!
@listen
u said that we do not need Doctors and Engineers, we only need human beings which are produced at school level only………. What a great comment……..? I can oly feel sorry about the standard of the university at which u r teaching
If any politician wants to implement positive changes in the educational sector they should have a thorough look at the Scandinavian school model. Pakistan need not to copy everything, but to seek out possibilities is a must, so we are not forced to invent the wheel. We should have capable people to go to Scandinavia to study on how to implement a similar educational system. In scandinavia they are always in the hunt for introducing betterments and try to catch up with latest learning methods. No “ratta” system, but rather they try to develop independent, analysing and self confident young people with the capability to make personal achievements as well as achievements based on group work.
/Saqib
Opinions so far:
Few beneficiaries are happy with current system of HEC and more P.hd.s
Majority (Utopians) wants more money and reforms to K-12 education.
My vote is for K thru 12, since I already have enough education, just want better facilities for my kids.
Besides all the destruction that Mush has brought I have to accept he has done two postive things:
1. Take the initiative to librate media.
2. Choose Dr. Atta-ur-Rahman as HEC head.
I think Dr. Atta is doing a tremendous job, he is very sincere in his efforts in bringing drastic changes in HE. The new govt should NOT roll his program. I know Dr. Atta for 17 years, HEC is probably the most effecient department of last govt.
My 2 cents on the subject.
Fahim23
With due respect I would disagree with you.
Parents have a pivotal role in the childrens growth. The children do what they see not what they are told to do if theres a mismatch between the words & deeds of their parents.
And you are talking of disrespect of Teachers within our society, who is responsible for it “parents” who humiliate the teachers. The role of parents happens to be the role-model for majority of people.
Let the parents be accountable for lack of education to their children. Let the parents know the why eductaion is important for their kids.
I have not read the entire thread and therefore what I am saying may already have been mentioned. I would like to see some civics related education introduced at the lower school level, may be up to elementary school. We as a nation needs to know not only how to take care of ourselves but also our surroundings. If kids are tought from the beginning that they are not supposed to litter on the streets, etc., then in the long run it will help our neighbourhoods clean.
Let the parents know that education is more important than bread & butter and I mean it.
And please….Pakistan should abolish the right to beat the children. It should be unlawfull. It’s a shame that children associate beating with being in a school.
/Saqib
@Asif
I also once used to believe that no matter what the condition of teacher is, he should be respected just becase he is a Teacher. And parent must be the one who should respect more, coz a teachers teaches his/her kids.
But bro, I had to change my mind, because society has its own mechanism. Anyone, who is compelled to beg or borrow cannot be respected. A parent even if he wants cannot help his kids teachers because of his own financial situation. Furthermore, when people have observed
- education (what is taught in schools if at all) is becoming useless day by day,
- Teachers don’t even go to class but involve themselves in lucrative business of tution.
- and If they go to class they can’t teach
- A teacher can’t even afford his own kids to get education!
In this situation I guess no one can pay respect to teachers. And that compelled me to change my view. If we have to restore the respect of teachers in our society we have to facilitate them, with assurance of at least basic needs such as (food, shelter, health, education, etc)
Neither our current education groom the character of our kids neither it guarantees them bread and butter, so teachers and schools have lost their respect.
But even then I am sure, if government makes the education free and make it accessible to everone, majority will send their kids to schools.
Pakistan is one of the lowest spenders on education. And why not. Defence is sucking up all the buck.
Quality of education from elementary to university is pathetic. I have first hand experience of this. I sometimes receive Ph. D. theses from Pakistan for evaluation. Often feel like crying over the dismal quality of write ups. A grade 10 term paper of a North American school is often better than a pk Ph. D. document.
I dont know much about what HEC is doing. But know one thing for sure. There is a dismal spread of incompetence going on at pk universities, and no one knows how to stop it.
HEC biggest achievement is not to send PhD abroad but to make 7-8 new European Universities in Pakistan. They will start operating from 2010 or so.
It will be so great to have TU-Lahore and KTH-Sialkot etc. Then foreigners will be coming to Pakistan instead Pakistanis going abroad.
Fahim23
Whatever you are saying is “chain of reactions”. Respect everything that comes your way whether living or nonliving if you wanna respect in return.
Respect yourself means, don’t let down yourself, don’t demean the blessings that you have.
We have a habit of justifying our failures to others incomptitence, bro I was against this culture & I am against this culture & I will be against this culture.
@Fahim23: I agree that we need to raise the post of the teacher in our society, however, just raising salaries may not be the answer because the bigger problem is that Teaching (along with other filler areas have been the darlings of sifarshees (autocrats or civilians) and they have just been filling people without any qualifications.
We have to have transparent training and qualification procedures and only those people who qualify should become teachers.. right now I think there is a lot of incompetent people in there.. I don’t mnow maybe I’m off..
I do agree that teachers should be able to raise their families and earn a decent living… but this being pakistan, if there is a good salary, then every sifaarshi wants that job whether or not he is qualified or not.. (iss ko lagwaa deN kaheeN.. WTF! no one gives a sh!t about qualification in Pakistan.. they only cry about it when someone else gets that spot.. then they remember qualifications.. )
It’s a catch 22.. A Good Education System can’t happen without a core of educated, honest people with integrity (sentimental fools ? but we need them desperately!)
Biggest problem again is the top down corruption for which I blame internal and even more external forces whose self interest is at the core of keeping us illiterate and therefore bewildered and controllable.
Can someone tell me that how many Ph.D’s Dr. Pervez Hoodboy has produced so far? My understanding that he joind QAU in late 70’s as a physics assistant professor and produced only two Ph.D in 1994-1995. After that he did not produce any PhD student. I respect him and admire him for his physics knowledge and his contributions as a teacher at QAU but he has wasted all of his tenure life at QAU just in teaching undergraduate physics and giving high profile lectures at US, UK and PK.
I wish he would have publised his research in high profile international journals by producing PhD at QAU. You can argue with HEC and Dr. Atta -ul-Rehman but it is not fair to discourge it for the sake of nothing. What options Dr. Hoodboy has put on the table HEC? When he speaks against PK atomic bomb then being a particle physicist, what other option he discussed with Dr. AQ Khan and Dr. Summer Mubarik . Of course HEC needs lots of correction but saying that HEC is producing bunch of usless PhD is just not fair. We should know the technical meanings of this before we say that HEC is a usless organization. I never likes Mushraf but I try not to speak against him because somehow he got convinced by Dr. Atta that higher education is important for PK. I had been traveling to USA/ Euroup and far east for different scientific conferences for the last 15 years and I know in 1994 people only knew Dr. Abdul Salam as a Pakistani scientist and after 1998 they got to know Dr. AQ khan and now they know Dr. Atta for his good work.
I wish if present govt take the sugesstions from qualified people and work on them to make HEC more effective rather just stop it.
Thanks
PS: I am in hurry and dont have time to spell check so please forgive me
@Fahim23
I hope more people will realise that this kind of charity work is the way forward instead of giving many other forms of charity which often only extinguishes small “fires”. Maybe you have already answered this question: I would like to ask you how you guys make check and balance on your projects? How do you assure that your contributions reach the intended people?
I would like to congratulate for your fine work. What you are doing is truly remarkable and worth a couple of claps on the back
As mentioned your effort is great on personal level, but on national scale we need to think bigger. We need to have some more vigorous planning, where the whole education system gets a revamp. As you know it is field where Pakistan hasn’t done ANYTHING at all since we have inherited the system from the ancient British occupiers.
/Saqib
@Saqib
Thanks alot. Fortunately with my case I am personally in close contacts with the faculty members of my department, and the teachers and chairman of our department is fully cooperating with us in this regard.
We invite applicatinos with Attested documents, and two recommendation letters along with the original income certificate to assess the academic qualifications and financial status of the candidate. Furthermore, we also decided not to give the awarded amout to the student at once. We give them in installments and with conditions that they have to maintain certain standard in class tests, mid term tests, term exams and also in their behavior and aptitude which is monitored closely by the facult y members in the department.
I totally agree with you that there is a lot to be done to improve our basic education system, and in these times who ever can MUST take initiatve starting from his family, friends and community for the betterment of education standard.
Right now, we have only organized structure of universities, they are connected with each other (thanks to HEC) and are also pretty well documented and organised. Schools and colleges are dispersed. And there is no communication between colleges or schools. Even the government department of education cannot locate ghost schools. So, I think such initiative at national level will be very difficult but it can be easily developed at community level.
Beside, in charity works I personally rely on the purity of intentions. I firmly believe, if you sincerely want to help then ALLAH Saeen will not let your charity go in vain :)!.
hello all
Please dont talk about spreading education. it would become so much hard for them to govern these poor masses.
Dont educate these people.
You all have gone crazy.
let them be illiterate and only then we can become minsters and remain waderas etc.
GO to ratodero to see the way we keep people. thats the way to go.
I am not sorry to pick on rato dero
DG Khan Muzafar garh Jhang RY khan etc.
I partially agree with what people in this thread have told about HEC…higher education is a vital thing…it shows the capacity of nation’s intellect and contribution in various fields…so in my opinion spending on HEC is a must..having said this, the HEC’s spending must be according to what is absolutely required. for example, i know a friend who is being funded by HEC to do a PhD in Law..now how will a PhD. in law help in construction of our company…we might need PhDs in engineering, manufacturing, financial sector, pharmaceuticals, agriculture, textile or other industries which are popular in Pakistan.
sorry to use the word company instead of country, but believe u me we have to think about our country in the same way as we think about our company….a company only sponsor those training programs of its employees which seems to add valus in the company…we shoul follow the same procedure.
futhermore, we should see which vital technologies or subjects are not being taught by our universities ..and then send people to do research on those specific subjects, and bound them to come back and start a new department or whatever in any university in pakistan.
@ mu_chng
I have told you many times that Mush is dead. You can cry as much as you like but don’t destroy conversations.
Your MQM got what they wanted. You said yesterday that you are ‘laughing that people of Pakistan are being fooled again’.
Please spare us your rubbish. We are not laughing. We are focusing on issues. Please don’t bring discussion to your level.
Revolutionary Measure to rectify all ilss.
.
Close all urdu medium and governemt owned schools forever.
if any one want his children to educate, he should go to english medium, or if he cant afford, it is better to save his money and not send his kids to urdu medium school. urdu medium education is wastage of that poor man’s hardly earned savings. as 99 % pakistanis are sending their children for education to have a good job. better to save that money , rather than producing an educated jobless frustrated disappointed young man.
universities should be closed for 10 years
so that already master degree holders can get a job. dont produce jobless master degree holders , dont produce master degree holder taxi drivers , cashiers and ware house labours for canada and america. in this way we are helping their economy.
regards , aap ke bheann
ajnabi larki
Introduce one circ. for all.
get rid of these class based education.
Unless this is done nothign will change.
AH is a competent guy. I have high hopes from him.
@ajnabhi “larki” : I think you should confine your comments and expressions to intonations and un-intelligible vocalizations as before.
“Universities should be closed or 10 years.”
Vaah! Vvvaaaaaah! Kiaa la’al chupay haiN IJT ki gudRi maeN
National Education System in fact matches with many other national systems such as type of capitalist economy, culture, innovation….
This is the reason why German system differs from the UK and the US…
Without establishing sense of national identity all efforts will be in vain though benefiting individuals.
The discussion is all useless if national education system is seen in isolation.
the main worry in the UK and the US is that their school education system is declining and in Pakistan we do not even bother!
BitterTruth: after 9/11 Pakistan got enough money from the US and the only reason it was invested in higher education was that it benefits Dr. Att and his team who had earned PhD in past. To become a Phd is a long route and so there will be less competition as no of PhDs were very less at that time. So the strategy was set and this is how the game continued. All old friends and teachers having PhD degree were granted enough to enjoy. Those serving in public colleges took leave and joined on contract to earn salary in lakhs…
What has been their contribution ever in the education system of Pakistan?
And of all Dr. Att was the same person whose job ended and at the request of great Dr. AQ Khan he was given this charge…. there is more inside to this story but I leave for another day
CHAND: for your info. now many other Pakistanis are known worldwide but for plagiarism. The biggest IRONY is that HEC could not develop content on plagiarism themselves and in deed linked a document from some UK metropolitan university on their website some time ago….
SomeOne: come out of this day dreaming. Its only now that US and UK are able to export education. Brand takes time to develop and educational brand takes more than usual. You mean startup like CIIT will do attract foreigners?
Oxford, Cambridge are centuries old and even elite US are now near century old institutes…
Satndardize the whole system.So equal oppertunities should be given to all.SAME standard for all.Our country is a brain rich place lets utilize its potential.
Problem is there is no one sincere to improve the problems of educations, our politicians are always more interested in strengthening their own rule fist, then they start destroying the institutions and then they always want to rule long term.
A solution to education or any other problem is to employ professional who are appropriately trained and experienced in the field. The ministry of education is considered as a low class ministry and most useless man is given this ministry.
The political parties always try to fill the government employment with their own workers and they give the teaching and other posts in educations department to most non-deserving person. That’s what Bhutoo did and that’s what all the politicians has been doing. There is no merit and there is no competition.
On the whole situation in PAKISTAN is hopeless and I don’t think it can get better.
Who will bell the cat?
Schools under the nose of Wadairas & jaghirdars, What Ahsan will do in this regard?
Would he try to make some inroads into this “pathetic & hardcore issue” which is sitting for a while as it is.
Or it will be covered by some colorful words as like his predecessors.
Namal college (affiliated with the Bradford University) is expected to have its opening ceremony on 27th April 2008. Imran Khan also said that he’ll be opening a Mianwali University.
http://www.namalcollege.com/index.htm
Can we set aside Rs. 100 million a year for 100 fresh graduates to add value in 100 villages?
Lets reconnect ourselves & get united & bring ourselves closer. Lets enter to 21st century & democratic Pakistan with new leadership, with innovation, with a vision, who can bring the people close together for their benefit.
Lets have a competition exam nationwide in which only fresh graduates can sit. And then select the top 100 graduates from them. Select 100 villages(comprising from 100-200 families/houses) scattered through out Pakistan. Assign one village to a graduate for an year over there with one Rs. one million of budget at his disposal. One can set a certain frame of rules for the fresh graduates. Learn the local language, find out the problems that the people are facing & bring the people together to solve the issues that can solved locally, also recommend the solutions at provincial & national level for their problems, if you think that nature of the problems needs provincial or national assisstance. Also you can highlight the skills of those people at national level. Study their values in detail, how they manage at their own level day to day issues. And the things like that.
Prepare a complete report about the value that you added to their lives at the end of the year. Then the top 10 who added the most value in the lives of people should be honored with Nishan-i-Pakistan.
Lets add the value to the lives of our rural areas.
P.S. We can extend it to 112 as I have come to know that Pakistan have 112 districts. So from the final results we can select a graduate from each district with highest marks from his/her district fellows. And assign him/her a village from other provincial district or the distant one, whichever way it works. Thus we would have representation from each district both in graduates & in villages.