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March 31, 2008
March 31, 2008
Discuss: Energy
Please recommend any solutions for fixing the Energy crisis in Pakistan.
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Please recommend any solutions for fixing the Energy crisis in Pakistan.
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short term……building of new thermal power plants. diff kinds of fuels can be used in thme, like oil or gas or coal. oil is too expensive for pakistan. we dont have enough supply of gas from our gas fields. there is lots of coal(equal to oil and gas reserves of iran and saudi combined) we must use it for our benefit.
long term.. investment in wind farms , solar energy, and thermal energy from earth.
The main issue is corruption, and corruption means that “mega” projects are preferred by our bureaucrats, as they can control the limited number of vendors and extract their “cut”. .
There is no money to be made in distributed do-it-yourself schemes. We need to have the government make a committment to a program office which will run like a NGO (non-profit — sad we even have to say this for a public office)
Some energy needs can be covered by DIY simple community projects in off-grid areas. Some of this sounds dumb and stupid, but I think the cumulative effect of any savings will be noticeable on the treasury (but need to tackle corruption to make use of any ’savings’)
I think we really need to use Solar and all the wasted energy in the canals and the distribution channels.
Heating: Should always be solar.
Power Plants: Preheat water at least during the day (peak hours) and it is just stupid simple to add a pre-heat solar phase to any plant.. This could save around 30% in fuel costs (if you heat the water up to 50-60 C before sending it to the boilers.
home lighting: new flourescent lighting
Simple energy extraction methods in villages from the sources of energy. Cheap, simple to fix and DIY type.
1. Tubewells should always draw water to a raised pond which should then release it for use via micro/pico hydro projects. This can be used for supplying power to the dispenseries (keep medicines cold by running a refrigerator, have a communal cellphone charging station etc.)
2. The agricultural waste should be used to run simple steam engines to generate electricity. Again, govt subsidizes the power plant. This will also stimulate local industry.
3. Use of animal power to generate enough electricity for emergency needs (running a dispensery, providing power for local school, phone charging station)
4. DIY energy extraction mechanisms to harvest kinetic energy in canals and distribution channels. This doesn’t need a ‘head’ per se, as you are using it to either lift water to a head or to just run micro/pico generators.
5. The govt needs to promote cottage industries which generate these off the shelf parts people can use. These cottage industries could produce locally made generators, rectification units, simple steam engines, solar ovens, solar water heaters
6. home and community design guidelines which encourage people to build things in such a way that energy can be harvested and/or conserved from the git go. For example, always route collected water through a high reservoir. Always pre-heat water through a simpler water heater. Buildings should use the least amount of energy (instead of fvcking giving ppl rebates for AC’s FFS!)
A key advantage of distrubuted, close to the curb type systems is that people tend to become more conscientious users and don’t waste as much, and they always have energy for when they really need it instead of being at the mercy of the grid.
@ ad min
thx for creating a separate discussion page
@ TK
I think this is the topic where I would agree the most with your opinions/suggestions.
The suggestions given above are good. I fully agree that a distrubuted system has its advantages and mega projects have room for too much corruption which we don’t see till years have passed.
Infact for any of these projects to work ‘corruption’ has to be dealt with first and foremost. There should be no “extra” jobs created in the energy industry coz one wants to accomodate their family members in there…. The problem is that we have created sooo much bogus jobs in the industry that efficiency has hit an all time low…. There needs to be a big cut in workers… and have new projects to accomodate the efficient staff.
So first problem in my view is mis-management of our resources…
Now coming to the points discuss above. You are asking for alot of upfront cost (Money which we don’t currently have). Even if we go ask for loans or investment from outside… what plan will we sell them. Thats why in the past governments have stuck with “mega” project scenario because its comparatively easier to get funding for them….
For villages I think sadly people of the area needs to raise up the money themselves as government does not have much to subsidize them.
Biofuel is a good idea… Are we using that at all currently ?
Can you please elaborate on point # 3
4 . Yes the kinetic energy from canals can be used. But the supply is going to be very unpredictable especially with large changes in runoff in winter and summer. I would like to get your view on a new hydro plant ? Tarbela and Mangla are near their end and we need a big generation facility soon….
I thought we had one of the biggest resouce of natural gas …. Apart from terrorists sabotaging the lines recently what other major issue do we have regarding it not being used for a fuel in power generation facilities ?
Now the current issue of utmost importance…. the free electricity that many of our citizens enjoy… it does not matter whether they are rich or poor but people from all walks of life are cultprit in it….I thought it would have been easy to identify where the electricity is being stolen based on the substation figures….is corruption to blame for that or is there a practical limitation here ??
@digital
we r using natural gas as fuel.we generate 27% or more electricity from gas. we also use natural gas in cars and other vehicals in form of CNG.
”I thought we had one of the biggest resouce of natural gas ….” im not sure about that. we dont ahve enough natural gas to meet our needs. a large population of pakistan doesnt ahve natural gas in their homes.
pakistan ahs been trying to get natural gas from three diff countries(iran, kazkhistan and cant remeber third one) since 90’s, but no sucess(diff reasons).
@ 27122007
is the issue with extraction, transportation or we just don’t have enough reserves ?
first of all energy crisis should be taken for short and long term policy . solar energy and hydel projects should be start , small water reservoirs should be build ; to arrange money for these projects , we should finish the new GHQ projects, and cut off defence bufget
@ 27122007
we are ranked 17th in terms of natural gas reserves
@digital:
Totally agree that we not only need to eliminate line losses but also the ‘nepotistic fat’ that is just there to get a paycheck! I think we need to create jobs, but not at the cost of productivity.
As far as up front costs, I think most of these things are so simple to make that if promoted properly, they will not add too much up-front cost (IMO). That is the beauty of the distributed approach. If a million people spend 2000-5000 rupees each on a solar water heater, then that is a saving of 5 billion. I would prefer the govt actually subsidizes these things because this will free up gas and/or electricity for industrial/other uses.
Also, this is based on the ground conditions, so in desert areas, it doesn’t make sense to have water based pico energy systems, but wind based or some other type could be used.
Item #3 is kinda silly, but the thing is that every village has a couple water wheels run by camels or other draught animals. What I’m saying is that those mechanisms should be made more efficient and then be made dual purpose so that a micro generator can be hooked up to produce electricity to charge up a battery or some other storage device as the animals are working to bring the water up.
We tend to forget that animals are actually the most efficient converters of energy into useable power. There isn’t going to be much power, but it should be enough to run emergency charging or a small community system for battery charging (I’m talking places like inner Balochistan where right now they’re putting up $50,000 photo-voltaics .. why not use things already available locally?
All these ox carts and stuff should have a small battery charging mechanism .. it’s not gonna kill the animal with the fractional increase in power needs but this will give the people a charged battery at the end of the day. good for maybe a small lamp or charging cell-phones.
Same thing with Gravity based led-light lamps.. or gravity based pico powerstations.
I think there are some applications for things like these in places which don’t have anything whatsoever. Obviously it doesn’t work for urban areas, but solar heating etc is just too easy to not do.
P.S. re: a new hydro plant, I think we should do something already.. we need water reservoirs anyway.. all this water going into the arabian sea is a total travesty! We should make sure as little as possible goes into the sea.
Problem is we keep getting military govt’s whose priorities are to serve their masters and make sure they keep using the VIP fleet and palaces as long as possible. I still remember the BS promises moshe made.. He’s no Zia.. but that’s nothing to write home about.
Solar energy is off course good, but the main problem is the cost. We shouldn’t expect solar energy unless the cost is reduced drastically!
In my view we should opt for hydro energy, gas turbines, nuclear energy combined with possibility to store energy in peak times.
/Saqib
I think set up for solar energy is far too expensive to be taken up by any government.
Major breakthrough can be made through utilisation of coal.
We ought to have at least a couple of dams starting off in a year or so and finishing in 5 to 7 years.
But I know it will always be a political issue with vested interests of bunch of people.
Punjab should sacrifice and give due share to all provinces with regard to resources it is extracting from them like water from the frontier and kashmir and gas from balochistan. It should now utilise its coal reserves in the desert region.
apart from that there is also a water crisis, for that also we need to have suitable reservoirs. There hasn’t been much rain or snowfall in the recent years, and whenever it happened, we hadn’t had enough reservoirs to store it properly. There can be small reservoirs in every locality.
@digital
we do have problems like transportation(digital on March 31st, 2008 8:36 pm”Apart from terrorists sabotaging the lines”), extraction(in balochistan, deep underground), proper use of oil and gas fields etc. i have personnel experience of a oil and gas field(i woudnt name it), where after extraction natural gas is pumped back into earth.
but, but, but, even if we solve those problems, it wont be enough to meet our needs.
They should have had micro hydro on all these damn barrages we have.. so much energy is wasted in these things. At The bottom of each gate should be a rotor hooked up to a 50kw generator assembly. There is way too much power in those things going to waste …
@ TK
control system of such a thing would be too complex (hooking it up to grid and so on). I mean for micro generators.
Well if you could get a megawatt in summer.. that ain’t too bad.. I don’t know anything about electrical control systems.. so it’s all hot air on my side..
@TK
”all this water going into the arabian sea is a total travesty! We should make sure as little as possible goes into the sea”.
With no river to push it out, the sea(arabian) is pushing in. Along the coast, studies show, at least 1.2 million acres of farmland have been covered by sea water. Millions more acres inland have been impaired or destroyed by salt deposits.
“Upstream, they (u)are demanding more water for canals, but we(me) are demanding water to save our coastal area,”
@2712: so I guess we’re already there.. I wasn’t saying all of it should be diverted.. just enough to keep the coastal areas, but that has already gone to hell from what I gather from ur post.
@TK
”but that has already gone to hell from what I gather from ur post.” u cant use this xcuse for more destruction. anyways lets focus of energy issue, we can/will discuss it at right time. when it will be hot topic in pakistan.
PPP in its term from 1993-1996 produced 3500 Megawatt electricity, so its not a difficult task for them as they know how to do it.
the only Immediate solutions are IPPs.
where are those who use to criticize PPP for its IPPs policy?
IPPs ? elaborate for people like me who are not familiar with the term
Energy from Fossil fuel (coal, diesel, etc) is an obsolete concept. The only viable energy solution for developing world, particularly Pakistan, is the nuclear energy. Unfortunately, West has been monopolising the nuclear energy, and scaring the whole of Asia and Africa out of it, over the flimsy pretext of Israel’s security.
It is time that developing world see this damming monopoly and return to the genuine solution to their energy needs. Given proper safety measures, nuclear is the best long term option. With its own natural reserves of uranium, Pakistan has a great potential for cost effective nuclear energy.
@ wellwisher
is there any data available on the uranium reserves in Pakistan.
Because if Pakistan has appropriate reserve I personally think nuclear is the best way to go. And if some research is done nuclear fuel can be reused (the waste products are reactive and could further breakdown to produce more heat… but its hard to control with current tech).
But if we don’t have the reserves its gonna be a pain importing it… remember how we build our weapons… importing parts under fake identities an all…(involvement of smugglers and what not)… due to sanctions………..I don’t see west being too glad about us going ahead with nuclear generation plants
I think more than reserves the issues is installing safe and serviceable power stations. France has the most advanced technology. They might be able to sell it but the US will balk. Having speant fuel would mean more weaponization potential and that is the last thing the kutia’s leash holders want at the moment.
I really don’t see how nuclear can prove more usefull when you can use solar to generate the same level of heat. Continueation overnight is not an issue either because molten sodium etc system are good enough to store this heat overnight etc.
The problem is that the big “haraam” money is in big gas guzzler plants which there are established dealers for and they will not allow alternative energy to come in.
The only way for the alternative energy is from the grassroots bottoms up.
@27122007: I was not advocating more destruction (just for the record)
@ TK
you are right that nuclear generation results in active plotonium (major contributor to weapon) and thats the reason another nuclear reactor will be opposed by international community especially US ( … someone say hypocrite..)
but we gotta look at the national interest. Solar I am a bit iffy on because as someone mentioned the const of infrastructure is high…. and the maintainance cost is even higher… Even the west cannot afford it with all the mechanisation available to them. The land requirement is huge as well.
Hydel and Nuclear. These are the only long term energy solutions.
The wretched thermal Independent Power Plants (IPPs) are more of a long term problem than a short term solution. They will be able to provide electricity in about four years but the nation will be paying for them for the next 30 years. IPPs were the reason that WAPDA became bankrupt in teh first place.
Instead of signing long term agreements with IPPs, each distribution company should be asked to procure its power requirement through competitive bidding. This is the only way to induce competition and have an efficient power market.
“Coal is also the workhorse of the nation’s electric power industry, supplying more than half the electricity consumed by Americans.”
source: US Energy Department website
One of the reason for the lack of interest in Thar Coal Project by international companies is lack of transport infrastructure.
Shift to Nuclear Powered-turbines.
Upgrade chashma reactor and Kanuup(khi).
Coal is good alternative but it will take atleast 3 yrs to get power out of them!
Solar Energy sounds very freindly but infact its very costly and for that reason cost-ineffective.
@BitterTruth
i would say lack of political will(in mush period).
but no need to worry,new PM has already announced that he is interested in thar coal and wind energy.
@ Well wisher
Problem for nuclear energy is that Pakistan don’t have TECHNOLOGY .
It will take quite some time to be self sufficient in nuclear plant technology (because materials and other technical issues). Just having Uranium is not enough.
Most recent nuclear power plants in Pakistan have been installed by China and they are not ready to pass a bit of this technology to Pakistanis.
Step one is that the load shedding be faced by government/ministers/PM/president equally as the citizens are facing…. things will work on fast track when the people in Minister’s colony will face the same problem.
yaar I don’t understand this myth of solar energy being too technical and expensive..
It is the same kind of sh!t we were fed 100 years ago when “steam engines” were too highly advanced for us stupid brownies to make indiginously.
If you want to creat 5-7% yield photovoltaics, then YES, solar is too expensive. But if you want to use crude technology to heat up large quantities of water, it is NOT prohibitive at all.
It is a mental block we all have. When we say “Solar” We think Fifty Thousand dollar solar arrays powering each home.
When I say “solar” I mean a bloody used oil drum, painted black with cheap mirrors focusing on it to boil water.
Energy is energy.. I understand why our bureaucrats don’t want to do it (no “mega” means no rishwat cut) , but I don’t understand the rest of ignorance that pervades our society re: alternative energy.
Seriously, we have the land and we have reflectors and we have SH!TLoADS of solar heat going to waste.. We could be exporting this sh!t to all the world if we became first movers in this area.
Actually, steam engines are still too advanced for us to make, but that’s a different discussion.
The problem is, energy independence takes developing nations out of the vice-grip of the nations which control the oil (NO! Its NOT the Arabs! but thanks for playing
)
This is why, there is no useable information available on the net and if there is, it is just some stupid hippies doing their stupid projects that cost more to do than buying off the grid, but it buys them ‘green cred’ so they do it anyways.
We need a proper alternative energy ministry in pakistan (the one they got is SH!T .. those people are in the pay of the energy lobby to not make it distributed enough and cheap enough).. these are just projects that energy minister can inaugurate and get pictures taken for news papers.
@digital & GM
Pakistani scientists and engineers have demonstrated their capability in building nuclear weapons and missiles, a technology equally sophisticated as building a nuclear power reactor. Besides they have been operating several reactors in the country such as; Karachi’s CANDU, Nilore’s PINSTECH, Chashma and Khushab. And dont forget their creativity in putting together the mega weapons through bits and pieces from every nook and corner of the world.
Therefore, technology is not an issue here. What is needed is a will to stand up for your right to assert for nuclear power. Assuming a minimum energy need of 3.3%, per year.i.e the country’s population growth, you need an aggressive energy package that could provide everyone at least a light bulb, a fan and a machine at work.
@wellwisher, what Pakistan and Ummah need is education 100% education. Only education would bring out muslim from the third grade citizen of plant Earth.
@kinnare: Couldn’t agree more. They should cut 5% defence budget and give it to education. The govt is using 1600 cc cars but what about the hundreds of incompetent jurnails using SUV’s ??? anyone ever question them ??? nuh-hoooooo!
@ kinnare:
Agreed! Education, no doubt, is another important issue. But we are discussing energy in this thread.
In the long run Coal is the best solution, Pakistan has 2nd largest Coal reserves in the world and China and Germany has already developed technologies to convert Coal into fuel,
This is the topic after my own heart. There are so many so many things that we can do. Of course, the two main sources of energy would remain hydal and thermal. So the main things in this regard:
1. Build more dams (of course with the consensus of all provinces etc) but then we are talking about 10 years at least for 1 dam. So it is very essential but a long term solution.
2. Set up more thermal power plants.
3. More thermal power plants need more gas so we need to enhance our gas exploration activities. There are more gas reserves recently discovered in Sindh by OMV (Austrian company) while MOL is also doing exploration in that region as well as in NWFP. The only offshore venture (which Shell undertook) turned out to be a disappointment. However, there are expectations of huge reserves in Balochistan, although no formal seismic surveys (initial surveys that determine the presence of gas) have been conducted. The problem in E&P (exploration and production) area remains the environment of Pakistan which is unable to attract big players due to security (both economic and personnel), safety and lack of incentive reasons. Our own OGDC is no good as for eg in last year they committed to drill 50 something exploratory wells but not even half of them were accomplished. So the main challenge over here is to create an environment where foreign companies in E&P sector like to come to Pakistan for investment.
4. Energy crisis is what the whole world is talking about and that is why there is much emphasis on energy conservation and alternate energy resources. The latter I will talk about later but for energy conservation we can do a lot. Many of our thermal power plants use oudated technology
(steam turbines) which is like burning gas in air. With combined cycle turbines, energy efficiency can be improved twofolds in the least. Of course, its an initial big CAPEX but the return on investment is very attractive and in most instances can pay off in 5-6 years.
5. PPP’s government ventured with IPPs (independent power producers) in the past. One has to be careful here because for HUBCO for example, the contract was such that the power was very expensive for the government. So whereas IPPs have the advantage of bringing in new and better technology with no capital contraints, one has to be careful that it stays a win win situation and does not become a win-lose situation.
6. Some out of the box solutions are required even in thermal power generation. Like for example there is gas available which does not fall fit to the criterion for power generation. However, co-mingling this gas with pipe line quality gas one can reach a feasible result for power generation. One such venture is in the pipeline by Engro (the fertilizer company) where they are using low BTU (i.e. low energy gas) and mixing small amount of pipeline quality to produce 150-200 MW plant.
7. Another area to focus on in this regard is transmission and distribution network. For KESC power supply alone the line losses were 30%!! This not only means the kundi system but bad or old infrastructure in terms of transmission lines etc. as well.
Now I come to the alternate resources:
1. Thar coal is something which we do not know has juice or not. As far as i know the quality of coal is not good enough for power generation. But it sure is something worth checking out and deciding upon once and for all instead of keeping it dangling for years.
2. Wind and solar have two problems. One they are damnably expensive, two they are not of the magnitude to be connected to the grid. Having said ghat they can be promoted for individual users. Like in India, for example, many of the small industries requiring 1-2 MW power even use power generated from steam by burning rice husk!! Similar approach can be taken up as part of sustainability project on a mega scale and Pakistan (being a third world country) by doing such projects can also make money under the Clean Development Mechanism of Kyoto Protocol. Although we are signitaries of Kyoto protocol we have not taken benefit out of it yet. The general principle is that third world countries can trade their reduction in emvironmental impact (in terms of CO2 generation) with developed countries by setting up energy conservation or alternate energy projects etc or getting the developed countries to finance such projects in Pakistan.
3. Similarly, in far off villages etc which are not even connected to the grid, solar panels can be used. Like I remember I once visited the cholistan border and the army barracks over there had solar panels because there was no connection to the grid. So we can do this for far off villages etc. as we have so much of sun.
With this approach and steps (some big, others small) we can inshallah be in a better state in the next decade. Also important is personal awareness. We have always taken gas for granted (vs electricity because electricity bills are BIG while gas bills are nominal). Now is the time to be careful about ALL the natural resources. Because nations who plunder their natural resources are committing crime against nature and then nature strikes back (like it is doing now, no gas, no clean water etc).
@Aneeza: I think you mentioned the combined cycle plants before too.. since you seem to be an expert in this field .. what is your opinion of the pre-heating solutions? (Solar or otherwise). I’m a big fan of all that un-used solar that our oil/gas based plants could use to decrease their fuel consumption by adding a low tech ‘pre-heat’ phase.
I mean.. when you’re making steam, whatever you burn, it is about taking it to 100C right? so, what if a pre-heat phase is added to these plants so that this water is heated to 50 or 60 C through solar heaters before being heated by the burners ?? I would even say an extra loop to get the exhaust gases to pre-heat the water as well..
I’m not an energy expert, but it seems to me that the more we can extract from the sun, the more we save in oil imports. Am I missing something here? I see a 30% savings in fuel at least by adding a simple low tech solar pre-heating unit.
appreciate your comments.
Accord signed for 525MW power project
ISLAMABAD, April 1: Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani on Tuesday reiterated his government’s decision to provide an additional 2,200 megawatts of electricity within a year.
Speaking at the signing ceremony of the 525MW Chichoki Malian power project with the Dong Fang Corporation of China, he said the government’s policy was to ensure energy sufficiency at minimum cost.
The contract was signed by Water and Power Secretary Ismail Qureshi and Dong Fang Corporation chairman Si Zefu.
“The last major addition in power generation was carried out in 1994 and 96 under the People’s Party government due to which 4,500MW electricity was added.”
—————————————————————————————————-
Source: http://www.dawn.com/2008/04/02/top16.htm
On lighter note, I didn’t know cheechon ki maliyan is actually a place :D!
People, please for the love of GAWD, we need scrubbers on these plants.. all these X-co plants are killing the people of their areas with poisonous emissions because they burn very in-efficiently and burn crude oil or something..
We need to lobby the govt to make sure that exhaust scrubbers are part of the cost of the project… Anyone know how we can get this concern to the powers that be?
Its nice to see that how our pepole taking interest in the national matters.
I would briefly suggest that we should adopt solar technology if not on national level but at least for street lightings airports and other public places where large scale electricity is used.
Build kalabagh and Basha
DON’T build Kalabagh and Basha
It seems like we have pretty nice ideas and some of them are implementable…however majority of these energy projects require atleast 2 to years to finish..so, i would like to divide my suggestions into three main categories
1) Immediate
2) Short term
3) Long term.
1) Immediate:
I think what needs to be done immediately is to think how to reduce energy loses and consumption. we cannot straight away add energy but we can reduce its consumption. We should try to avail maximum of our day-light and change our habits of going for shopping or grocery in the evening. this will reduce the energy consumption in all major malls and markets. there should be fixed timing for industries and offices.
2) Short term: encourage private sector to invest in small power plants and change import and regulatory policies accordingly. Make good use of canal network to make micro power plants for local town or village. a model micro plant will be helpful for other people to follow. Someone gave suggestion of animal powered elec. plant…that can be a good idea.
3) Longterm:
Make new dams, there is no way out of it…we need kalabagh, whether someone like it or not…it is not a political problem, it is a technical issue….the sooner we realize it, the better it will be for us…lastly, we need a nuclear plant as some of u have already mentioned…i think no one will give us so just like our nuclear bomb we have to create it ourself. i hope that our nuclear comission must have started its working on it..IT IS A MUST for comign 10 years….research on alternative fuels must also be carried out to plan our 20 years of energy generation planning.
Far out places in the country should be selected through national concensus and bigger nuclear reactors should be installed there.Thats the only way we can be independant from hydal power projects.The only long term solution.This will also provide fuel for the nuclear weapons programme.We need more reactors.
I think maglev wind power turbines can help in short, medium and long term. The energy generated by one turbine is 1000M or greater. Our beloved friend china has progressed a lot on this particular tech in research field. The cost of electricity generated is just 1cent/kwh.
Have a look here.
http://www.inhabitat.com/2007/11/26/super-powered-magnetic-wind-turbine-maglev/
Some years ago, during a conference in Islamabad on Space Research by SPARCO, I myself heard the following comments by one senior research scientist in SPARCO..he said that Pakistan has all the ability to enter the commercial satellite launch program, but the problem is of fuel, and he said that Dr.Abdul Qadeer Khans next target was Nuclear Fuel for everything!
Other then ideas, we need folks to do it….he could still do the thinking…and believe it or not….we can do it …..
otherwise all these ideas discussed by my dear brothers are very good and excellent ideas and should be put into practice by public demand…Middle east will invest in them if marketed properly…
Mulla!
i think that the government must take inisiative like istalltion of wind based energy and they must istalle small power generating units on small rivers and canals where we can install small units. sun is also very good thing we can get lot of enery from it because we have lot of sun shinig in pakistan. so these are some of suggestions
the biggest problem is not only that we dont have energy but also that we dont have a money to develop it from foreign countries.so we ourselves have take the following steps
1)utilize every energy source either of 1MW or 5000MW.so the sources of energy are uniformly distributed over entire country .
2)develop the industry related to powergeneration equipments so to utilize high performance turbines and other construction machinery.
support your engineering industry so that in the same amount of money we can develop much more power generation units.
3)resolve the nuclear issue BE BRAVE and honour and release your nuclear scientists.this can produce tremendous amount of energy in very
small time and small place and also in small money if use your own scintists.
4)develop own research labs to work on hydal power,nuclear power,coal energy.(coal can be a very big and cheap source if u dont rely on international companies those will sell electricity at huge charges.at that time their would be energy but no one to buy for industry but only to live in.
5)if there would no our own research labs than we would develop it when it would be too late and than we will cost more than our life.
Most powerful energy in the world s solar power,allyou need is little research with some initial investments. i live in karachi, each and single appliance in my home runs by solar power generators, including air con. dishwashers and fridge, without any problem. Thank God ,I dont get any electric utility bills from KESC. I said bye bye to my eletric bills two years ago and I dont miss anything . 24 hrs. electric supply to my household,with low quarterly maintenance of solar bank panels.
look for indonesian based solar panels, they are lower in cost and maintenance and can produce higher outputs for heavy utilities. it will be much cheaper in few years ahead.
Pakistan GO SOLAR.
Asslam O alaikum to All,
As I work a Power Generation Consultant in UK so I might be helpful on this issue:
Three Types OF Strategies need consideration
1. Short Term (2 years)
2. Mid Term
3. Long Term
1. Short Term
Planning Change
Privatisation and de regulation of operator and genrators.
Technology
1. Solar
2. Wind
3.Wave
Although each of them is way to expensive for a local man to buy but big Industries can use them both.
Mid Term
Strengthing Countries Energy Iinfrstructure buy changin Distrubution networs where most need reduces line loses.
Try utilising
Coal Plant: Global Material Shortage is on run now.
Even Turbine suppliers are asking for 3 years delivery time you
Dont go for old conventional generation there is new technolgy available called Super critical which is very efficient and less pollusive only place you can get it now a days is china if you are lucky.
Biomass:
Using waste product for Burning.
Bio Syngas Plant
Which utilises Sewage waste.
Additionally we can start manufacturing of Solar panels and wind fand and Tidal Turbines in mean time of 5 years.
Long Term:
In long Term Every should have to look for it own resources
Hydro:
Pakistan has 50,000 MW Hydro resource and its only utilizing 6000-8000 MW during peak seasons.
Nuclear:
Paksitan has nuclear plants but they cannot extend there plants they need to start researching Nuclear generation in the country rather then buying it from others its cost 4 times more to normal technology.
Thirdly You can pull additional Energy from Renewbles like solar, wind and Tidal
All the renewables have a great pottential in coastal area of Balochistan if that region becomes peace full.
Hope this help cheers.
You can forward you questions at
adnanahmed310@gmail.com
I will try to reply Inshah Allah
waslm o Alaikum
Asslam O alaikum to All,
Sorry for Spelling mistakes in previous one.
As I work as a Power Generation Consultant in UK so I might be helpful on this issue:
Three Types OF Strategies need consideration
1. Short Term (2 years)
2. Mid Term (5years)
3. Long Term (25years)
1. Short Term
Planning Change
Privatisation and de regulation of operator and genrators.
Technology
1. Solar
2. Wind
3.Wave
Although each of these technologies are way to expensive for a local man to buy but big Industries can use them both.
Mid Term
Strengthing Countries Energy Iinfrstructure by changing Distrubution networks where most need reduces line loses.
Try utilising
Coal Plant: Global Material Shortage is on run now.
Even Turbine suppliers are asking for 3 years delivery time you
Dont go for old conventional generation there is new technolgy available called Super critical which is very efficient and less pollusive only place you can get it now a days is china if you are lucky.
Biomass:
Using waste product for Burning. Again Material shortage but that will be worse in five years so Pakistan have to act now.
Bio Syngas Plant
Which utilises Sewage waste.Same as Above
Additionally we can start manufacturing of Solar panels and wind fans and Tidal Turbines in mean time of 5 years.
Long Term:
In long Term Every Country should have to look for it own resources
Hydro:
Pakistan has 50,000 MW Hydro resource and its only utilizing 6000-8000 MW during peak seasons.
Nuclear:
Paksitan has nuclear plants but they cannot extend there plants they need to start researching Nuclear generation in the country rather then buying it from others its cost 4 times more to normal technology.
Thirdly You can pull additional Energy from Renewbles like solar, wind and Tidal
All the renewables have a great pottential in coastal area of Balochistan if that region becomes peace full.
Hope this help cheers.
You can forward you questions at
adnanahmed310@gmail.com
I will try to reply Inshah Allah
waslm o Alaikum
I would agree with your solutions in general.
But the problem with privatizations at this point is that all the private operates are trying to make a killing because they know that there is a dire shortage at this point.
Investors in thermal power generation in Pakistan get an assuredreturn on equity of 15% un dollar terms which is perhaps the highest in teh world. Even with this return, they tend to fudge their operating costs and request very high tariffs. As a result, the tariffs for new IPPs in Pakistan are among the highest in the world.
So perhaps, instead of waiting for teh private sector, its time that the government sector starts installing new power plants itself and once the shortage is over, maybe then privatize these.
Well Type of Privatisation is debatable!
what kind of privitazation you bring in some times you just de regulates and keep final decision with in government corridors.
Complete privatization might be killing, only reason we consider some sort of privatisation is that governement entities are very in efficient and outdated so we need some sort of Government controlled Private sector under one umbrella.
Problem is PPP was always inclined toward nationalization and thats what put investors on hold that PPP has a bad history in this regards.
And they need to prove it wrong.
Waslm o alaikum
energy/power, water, oil resources, should not be privatized…follow the russian and the chinese model!!
privatization = profiteering psyche = underplanning = demand = inflation = poverty
but then i’m no economist.
however…govt-private investment in renewable energy technology transfer should be promoted
The current K.E.S.C. crisis is not because of inadequate supply of electricity, as people were facing similar crises even when our rulers were claming that we can export electricity. The electricity crisis exists because of the dishonest policies of our rulers who do not utilize the enormous resources of water, coal, uranium and gas in Pakistan to produce electricity. Instead of utilizing resources available in Pakistan oil is used to produce costly electricity. China and America produce 60 percent and 25 percent of electricity through coal respectively. Pakistan does not have any big project to produce electricity through coal even though Pakistan has one of the largest coal reserves in the world estimated around 1845 billion ton. Because of these corrupt policies government organizations like K.E.S.C. cannot provide basic necessities to the people and the government starts the process of privatization in the name of getting better results which is just another smokescreen to deceive the masses. Latin America’s experience has confirmed that the privatization of water, electricity, oil and gas helps some capitalist to increase their wealth manifold but produces severe negative effects on the people. The K.E.S.C. crisis is because of the Capitalist concept which encourages governments to privatize such organizations which provide basic facilities to public at low cost; furthermore, the government’s refusal to provide subsidies to these organizations in the name of free market economy is also a Capitalist solution. By just increasing the power generation capacity, the present crisis can not be addressed permanently. The only permanent solution to this crisis is the destruction of Capitalist system and the re-establishment of Khilafah state. Islam makes it mandatory upon the State that it provide at cost price electricity as well as other basic necessities to its citizens, regardless of their creed, how far they live, or what ethnic community they belong to. The Shariah has designated electricity (including other energy resources) as a public property collectively owned by the masses, and specifically prohibited it’s ownership by companies, individuals and even the government. The role of the government is in fact to administer its production and then distribution to the people tax and profit free!!! The prophet of Allah, Muhammad (saw) said:
“Three things can not be prevented (from people): Water, grass and fire” [Narrated by Ibn Maja].
And said: “The Muslims are partners in three, water, grass, and fire, and its price is forbidden” [Narrated by Ibn Maja].
Here fire is used in the meaning of energy resources. The Ummah now knows the treacheries of their rulers and the terrorism of capitalism. The need of the time is to re-establish the true Islamic State as shown by our beloved prophet (Saw) as this is the only solution that will eradicate the Ummah,s problems.
Wind energy does miracle in Sindh villages
Locally-manufactured wind turbines costing Rs0.16m each lit up four small villages
solar penal instalment in all heavey users it will reduce load on many levels ps china is best in solar penal like people r using those ups betarries thay can b attached to solar penals to charge it
We could have a cottage industry of simple wind-turbines for drinking water and irrigation, but that would mean les “cut” for those who rip off the 2 billion dollars worth imports of generators every years.
are we not vultures feasting on the deadbody of our mother(land) ??
Practical Guide to Exotic Energy Devices
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/
Salam Everyone,
I am a business and related to number of group that are working in multiple business areas. My suggestions are
1- Retail Outlet should be closed by 7 pm at maximum, the examples are of India, China, Thailand, Europe etc. The customer always come earlier if they are serious to buy. I am part of retail industry I know it quite well this could happen. I havee seen in China, no stores are open after 6, even supermarkets close down at 10 pm. The food goes of 50% discount after 9 pm. People go to bed early and wake up early as well.
2- Introduction of Smart Meters- The idea is of Pre paid card meters already working in Europe, Malysia, India and out asian countries. The customer buys the card insert it in the meter and have real data about his usage. This result in controlling his bills in real time and the WAPDA gets money equal to MANGLA DAM in advance every month.
3- In spain they are working and the next generatio meters, that have mobile SIM in them as well along with SMART CARDS. The send SMS to customer mobile every morning about the previous day usage and also to Service provider. The client get the pre paid card from any kisok or can pay through online as meter is connected to bank and data centre as well. Thus resulting in saving of fleet of employes, paper bills and big departments.
4-Private electricty production from 50 to 100 KW, sufficient for small villages and areas. The area where i work the plaza own power requirement is like 70 KW, they can generate their own if allowed or freed from Wapda policies.
The main cause of electricity is due to corruption. I know in Karachi there are thousands of KUCHI ABBADI who are using KUNDA for their electricity use. This I have seen with my own eyes. Plus there are dishonest businessmen who used thousands of watts of electaricity but pay little amount of money. The electricity is being misused by the people and some has to regulate this problem. I think the same problem in the other provinces. In this corruption police and KESC employees are shareing the illegal money.
Other suggestion are also be considered, but first corruption has to be sorted out. Unfortunately, the whole system in Pakistan is full of corrupt people. We have to correct ourselves first than the system should be changed by force.
@ Syed1508
Would agree qwith your comments but would like to change the language a bit.
The problem with elctricity shortage is due to STEALING by the RICH and POOR alike. It has to be STOPPED and proper legal steps taken against the thieves. On this and other forums- when it comes to those religious types that take the law into their own hands- everyone is up in arms.
But when it comes to electricity stealing by KUNDA in city or villages and by private industry 0 NO ONE wants to go after them.
But then - NO ONE wants to go after the corrupt politicians and corrupt generals either.
This is an issue of Law Enforcement. If those that make the laws and those that enforce the laws are equally corrupt- well NOW you are not shocked as to the condition Pakistan is in.
If you wish to DO SOMETHING- ANYTHING the first thing you need is PEOPLE who have the energy and administratibe bent to do things.
EXAMPLE- SHAHBAZ SHAREEF types. There are people who CAN do and WANT TO do things. They are called CREATIVE people and Pakistan has tons of them.
I am in complete agreement with TK that the solution is ENERGY independence !
The way to go about this is NOt to have buy anything from OUTSIDE.
So SOLAR of which we have plenty of ought to be the first.
Well- it just does not mean only ELECTRICITY produced by Solar Heat- but it means eficient utilization where you do not have to waste elctricity.
Let me give an example. A lot of rich people built homes. They could very easily use the many ways to keep their house COOL in summer and warm in WINTER by simply using some very basic things-
As I am sure everyone knows the temperature of the ground about 2 feet below the surface is about 55- 60 degrees F.
1.A basement or ” Tah Khana ”
2.Using Air brought through a ” Tah Khana” space will cool the sir and then this air can be piped into the rest of the house. Just imagine the elctricity it would save which is now being used in running all the air conditioners in all those 14 bed room homes of the rich.
The industry could use this too to cool their work place- and this will improve the productivity of the workers.
3.Growing creepers on the roofs.
4. Making the use of INSULATION in the roofs and walls a requirement.
5. Using SOLAR HEAT to HEAT water-( as per TK )- This can be done simply making the water reservoirs of metal rather than of concrete and painting them black. Thus you will SAVE the GAS you spend on heating water in the Water Heaters.
6. Solar Electricity - both the manyfacture of Photo Voltaic cells and the issue of GRID can be solved very easily.
If Dr. Qadeer Khan can STEAL the blue prints of a Nuclear CENTRIFUGE for THE BOMB- why the hell someone cannot steal the blue prints of How to manufacture Photo Voltaic cells. And to those who might have ETHICAL problems with this- Please keep in mind INDUSTRIAL ESPIONAGE is NORMAL today as it has been forever.
So Solar is something which only needs the WILL, the BRAINS anda desire.
Of course as TK rightly pointed out- there is NO MONEY in IT for the POLITICOS and that is a great obstacle for which there is no solution .
@shimatoree: right on! In Iran they have been using these technologies for centuries… heck they used to store ice harvested from glaciers in ‘barf khana’s” all summer long … and it used the same principle you described (letting air circulate through a basement etc.
Similarly, we could make use of abundant solar energy by just painting the tanks black and putting it behind a one way reflective plastic film in the winter…
we could have windpowered “nalka’s” which run continuously and keep pumping water. I’m not saying “water pump” kiyoonkeh hum pakistanyooN kay dimaaGh maoof ho jaatay haiN agar word “technology” is used or some english term is used (not because they don’t know english but because they have been brow beaten into unquestioningly berating themselves and accepting the west’s superiority.)
If a pakistani makes a suggestion, he’s an A$$HOLE. If some gora from world bank makes the same suggestion, he’s TRANSFERRING TECHNOLOGY. WTF..
How to save $2 Billion in Fuel costs every year:
(assuming we use 4 billion/yr for thermal power plants)
Anyhoo, here is a simple calculation at Pakistan level:
Let’s say Pakistan Imports 4 Billion dollars worth of fuel just for generating thermal electricity. Doesn’t matter WHAT KIND of fuel (gas, coal, crude whatever…)
Please note that all the energy used in thermal power plant is used in generating the high pressure steam which is used to run everything else.
Now, The energy is used to bring the water up to 100C (from 20C as I’m sure they’re pumping fresh water from the earth — kiyoonkeh fresh paani achaa hota hai naa!)
The differential is 80C (regardless of type of fuel used and the amount of water needed)
NOW, ARE YOU READY?
Let us make that Differential 40C for at least HALF the operation time (day time) though it can be done for the whole 24 hr period.
you see what I’m getting at?
The same 2Billion dollars worth of fuel will go twice as far, or we’d save 50% in energy costs at national level if we only Pre-Heat the water through simple network of solar-heated pipes during the day.
This water can then be stored in insulated tanks, and therefore used for night generation as well. And it should be stupid simple to retrofit the plants with Pakistani technology (caveat: means not kickback money for VULTURES — I’m looking at Mr. Bureaucrat! )
It’s so mind bogglingly simple, I don’t know why people don’t use it. I’ve mentioned this before in this thread and someone gave me a lecture on how combined FUQIN cycle turbines are better than the ones they already got.
Way to miss the point!
why do u think they are putting hurdles in the IPI…?? they dont want pakistan to have cheap oil…economic independence of any sort…till they are done with her.