@Zia
In fact we don

@TK

Bro first of ASALAM O ALIKUM to you as well. The fact is that you guys have never come across people who can argue with you offensively rather you have always discussed with apologetic Muslims who wants to make you happy and Islam subservient to the current secular system.
HT is the growing force in the international arena and the secular world is disturbed and depressed what to do with the growing awareness about khilafah and political Islam, now they have resort to false propaganda and an evil campaign to reform Islam the way they did with Christianity. They have given free license to vilify Islam under the guise of FREE SPEECH. But For them the best people are those who call themselves Muslims but do not refer there life affairs to Islam and there are many in this forum. Please refer to a report published by Rand Corporation by the name of CIVIL DEMOCRACTIC ISLAM and find your self in that report.

We agree with each other because we base our arguments on Quran and Sunnah, we agree unless someone comes up with stronger evidence from the mentioned sources.

I never called you Quraish or my self Muhammad (Naozubillah) rather I said that you guys often behave like the Quraish of Makka and give you a relevant example in that regard.

Bro Why don

@Optimist
Bro You have proved your ignorance, arrogance and hypocrisy again and again so ASALAM-O-ALIKUM to you.

Regards

@econcused

Bro please read the section 7

Yippeee. The Khali LIfafah bot is here.

Stand down Khali Lifafa MUTANT turtle !!!
I repeat. Stand Down!

Drop the Baklava pastry. Face the wall. Put your socks in your mouth and stop babbling.

STOP WASTING PRECIOUS OXYGEN. (think about it.)

@mbokhari
anything else you have to say or just the usual

For Shame !!!

India is after all an emerging power- if fall in the dollar and rise in the rupee

@hamaradeen

Just the usual, hon.

Oh, and I’d like fries with that. Thanks, ur a doll !!!

@hamaradeen

Zinggg !!! haha:)

Aitazaz Ahsan Poem in Quetta

@Zia

Dear brother, you have raised few points. I am not sure what your beleifs are and what your religion is but i am curious about knowing it, if you would like to share.

I would like to quote few of your words.

“Christianity and Islam evolved out of Judaism or Old Testament.
One does not have to be religious to believe in the Creator.”

Well, this is a complex statement. It is true that Judaism came prior to Christianity and Islam and Islam came after Christianity. Well, religion from God was always one and message was same but with passage of time came different Prophets and Divine guidance. So in Islam there are many things which were in previous religions too as all were from same the GOD. However, it should be understood clearly that Islam is an independent and complete DEEN(way of life), I don’t understand what you mean from “evolving”, if you mean that Islam also does contain commandments sent earlier then it is true; Quraan and Sunnah have it but there are also additional things too as Islam is for whole mankind and for ever; one however can’t clearly distinguish between new rules and old ones due to many factors which i don’t mention here. But if from evolving you mean that Islam was just created by human beings from old books or religions then you are totally wrong!!! Stay clear.

“I could give you plenty of contradictions from Quran i just don

@zaheer

Let me clarify:

Evolution of Islam from Judaism and Christianity is a fact that is obvious to IMPARTIAL observers. If you are partial to Islam, you will say what you just said. If you are partial to Christianity or Judaism, you will see all the others are false religions.

To a Martian visiting earth, the ideas and practices of Islam would appear to have evolved out of the other two older religions. What you stated is true only if you BELIEVE in them. (I do.)

So, he is right if you take faith out and keep only reason, logic and science.

@ Zia

“Also is Sexually Oppressed would like 4 wives and lot of Hoori.”

Do you have any objection to having four wives by a Muslim and do you have any problem with Hoori? I would like to know your kind reasons for that. Here, i must make it clear that i follow Allah and Prophet Muhammad(P.B.U.H) and not MULLAHS or anyone else, a Muslim objects to wrongdoings of all no matter what status of preson in question might be. However, in the name of MULLAHISM etc, one can’t be allowed to defame Islam, all Scholars of Islam and all Muslims!!!

“I heard Israr Ahmed say that Taliban had the Islamic state but they made a few mistakes.”

Here again, you seem to playing card of Taliban, hate, propagand etc. to defame a Scholar of Islam. No human being is totally bad or totally good and Taliban are also human beings, they made mistakes its true but which nation is free of mistakes, btw? Here again i am not fan or follower of Taliban or any other, i follow Allah and Prophet Muhammad(P.B.U.H), so don’t try to use same card against me also. Try to be realistic brother. I know you would use this point more to pressurise others but no problem, come.

Would be nice to hear your kind objections.

Have a nice day.
Best regards.

@mbokhari

how can he be so sure using reason, logic and science that Islam is just Evolution? Has he studied all the religions deeply or has he drawn his conclusions based only upon few of his own parameters. I do respect all religions and faiths of others, all have right to choose what they find as truth but at the same time i do have same right and i respect my right of faith too. I just liked to know his intentions and objective of making few statements. We should share our point of view also. Aagain, everyone is free to have any faith and religion since faith and religion can’t be forced!!! No hard feelings.

@MBOkhari

Asalamo Alikum, those who know little about Quran can understand that where does Allah (swt) instruct us to say salaam and to whom.

Regards

“everyone is free to have any faith and religion since faith and religion can

Shoaib Akhtar banned for 5 years…Yeaahhh!!!
He cannot play for Pakistan or in Pakistan for 5 years.

Now, time for Nasim Ashraf to face the gallows!!

Another week has started with Arrogance and ignorance of Mullahs.

you have made your points. We don’t want you Khali Lifafah.

Go buzz off. Now let us consider serious issues.

bullshit, mqm terrorists are gonna be added in the gov, and they even will get 2 ministries…

:@:@:@

And I think its time even for nasim ashraf to go!

that stupid guy has ruined Pakistan cricket…

@urazzaq12
Abhi to ibtada-e-….

I think PCB should start giving a bit of respect to their players. Indians ne apno sar pe charhaya howa hai.

@urazzaq12
A cartoon about the new cabinet

So you know where UN stands on Human Rights:
Ansar Burni elected unopposed to UNHR Council’s Advisory Committee

About UN/Burni:
Direct link:Burney elected member of UNHRC advisory panel
Payed for by Burni:World community felicitates Ansar Burney

Well here is the interesting part about the above that I forgot to mention: As opposed to what Burni would have you believe, this is not an “election” that “candidate” Barni won. 2008 was Pakistan’s turn and Mush appointed him as the Pakistan’s “paleet” representative. See how Burni is playing it in the last link above. What a p@thetic tvrd!!!

The Chief Clown Ahmed Qureshi now works for GEO English

@econfused
You do mean this Ahmed Quraishi, right? Are you serious? GEO sure is aiming high, NOT! Well we knew Ahmed would be out of a job at PTV with the new govt coming in. Just surprised GEO has sunk so low!!!

@nota

Exactly, I did not believe my eyes. BTW do you know any other Chief Clown

Mark my word guys, if you read history JANG Group has always supported establishment. They only supported Judicial Crisis because every one in pakistan knows Mush is on the wrong side, so they had to follow policy of the rest of the media.
Fauji’s will again use Jang Group and I can even bet on that.
One of biggest threat to this new government will be from Jang Group(Jang, News, Geo) etc.

@econfused
“BTW do you know any other Chief Clown”

No I don’t. Apologies!

This ahmed qureshi is such a jerk!

All his articles are against the ppl present in this government….and hes so pro-establishment….

@Zaheer
I was raised in Ahl-Hadith family growing up Maulan Maudoodi and Qutb were my heroes.I used to be an average muslim hated anybody who did not agree with my religion like Shia,Brelvi or Ahamady.
Later started reading about other religions and tried to understand the histoey and origin of religion with an open mind.
Based on little science that i knew,found out the planet Earth is 4 billion years old and homo sapiens are a mere 200.000 years.
It is hard for me to fathom the solar system let alone our galaxy or the universe.
The story of Genesis that is the basus of all 3 major religions seemed rather amusing to me (God created earth in 6 days each day is 1000 year
=6000 years)
I believe religions evolved over a period of time like the different languages.Arabic evolved from Hebrew and Aramaic.
I believe in Almighty Creator you can call Him what you like God or Allah.
Actualy Allah is pre islamic for Arabs.
I believe all men are created equal.I respect others point of view and always have an open mind .
I do not think that God transformed some Christians and Jews into apes and pigs.I don’t think God made us in His image or we are His khalifa that would be an insult to the Almighty.It would be very arrogant for
man to claim he talked to Almighty face to face(like Moses did).
Like somebody said it is not a religious forum i don’t want to take too much space if you have any questions or want to discuss it further i can give you my e mail.
Peace

@ Zia m

I have also read Maulana Maudoodi and Qutab who was sentenced to death for killing Anwar Sada’t. I have also read many people, including Dr Israr etc.

God also opened my eyes when I read books that were not specific to Deobandi or Wahabi sect. I think if we force Mullahs to read other things, their eyes will be opened.

We should make it compulsory for Madrassahs that they will teach literature, poetry and history. Meaninglessness of Khali Lifafa will be quite obvious to the students of history.

And let’s bury this Khali Lifafa debate and go back to our real issues.

Independence of judiciary & other issues facing Pakistani society.

Pakistan’s Dar Faces Cabinet Test to Tackle Inflation

By Khalid Qayum and Farhan Sharif

March 31 (Bloomberg) — Pakistan’s newly appointed finance minister Ishaq Dar will take over management of an economy constrained by the highest inflation in almost three years and slowing economic growth.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=a2ch9Na3caLI&refer=asia

@nota et al. : Geo has sunk low indeed! That guy’s a douche! First sign? (No comments on his site). He knows he’ll be murdered by comments against his inane shit.

“Salute” to moshe from a link on his site:

http://www.geocities.com/nayyarafaq/pakistan-first.htm

Please excuse me, I have to go and throw up now!

So, Q and MQM found new ‘lovers’ whats a kutta to do?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QNu3hF4gII

Wow. This guy has a major crush on our Machchar.

@Optimist Zia

Went through pretty much the same awakening as you folks did. Except my moment of Eureka came after reading Bertrand Russell, Paine, de Tocqueville and Mark Steyn. I have gone full circle from being a close minded “Nawa-e-Waqtia” to complete freethinking atheist humanism to where I am now, my own personal waypoint: Muslim Humanism.

Helpless children should not be indoctrinated in ANY religion. Only ethics and ikhlaqiyat should be taught with philosophy, history, music and the arts. After all, we have seen the fruits of a 20 yrs of Madrassa culture: ignorant self-detonating morons, child-raping, wife-burning Mullahs and general murder and mayhem. Tell me A SINGLE GOOD THING that has come out of the Madrassa revolution? Has crime gone down? Corruption? What has your Namaazain done for you or the Ummah when your hearts remain impure and even grow blacker? When your minds are steel traps unwilling to see how the world has changed.

But then again, who am I talking to. Khali Lifafa Mutants.

If I can guess correctly , then it seems that GEO will be the major tool of establishment in coming days to destablise the government, it will be as bad as watching PTV in last 8 years. Kamran Khan and several others will make a lot of money in the coming days from the establishment.
Here is the new game plan of the establishment in upcoming days.
1. Improve the image of army by using GEO and Jang/The News , show as if army is totally aloof from all the political activities. There will be a systematic propaganda in this regard.
2. Malign all the political leaders including opposition and government leaders. Again Jang/The News will be on the front for this purpose.
3. From the month of April , we are going to see a wave of violence in different parts of the country especially in Karachi and interior Sind, this will not be suicide attacks instead ethnic issues.
4. Few weeks back I painted a scenario where OBL is going to be found in Pakistan by CIA, and apparently that is going to happen pretty soon.
5. Somehow I can not get rid of the idea of India being involved in this game of establishment. It seems that some tensions are going emerge pretty soon with India , perhaps Pakistan Army is going to do some pranks on indian border pretty soon. There will be Sarbjeet Singh execution next month and then some activities on the border it seems to me that there might be another Kargil pretty soon.
6. Stock exchange and economy is going to crash in the second week of April , not only that there will be a big textile/summer crisis in this summer.
7. Passimist in me says that we are going to see some really violent revenge from establishment. Everything is heading in that direction. I am sure GEO will not sell itself cheap , and since they have sold themselves , establishment is not going to waste that money for nothing they must be upto something.

Disclaimer:
All of the above predictions/analysis are just based on analysis and are not based on any source or insider information.

@admin
will u upload capital talk?

@pejamistri: “I am sure GEO will not sell itself cheap”

Are you sure about a FUTURE sell out? Hasn’t it already happened?

I understand your pessimism though I don’t think/hope it will be that bad. Another factor could be played by GEO MQM TV. Some time back we saw an attempt to divert the public from the real issues by the (unnecessary) release of the Indian spy. That story backfired when Pakistan in exchange received a dead body from India. Recently Shoaib Akhtar got 5 years ban for something he should have had 1-5 matches ban for -if any (I am not a Shoaib fan). It can seem ridiculous to think of Shoaib in this regard, but I think the GHQ/establishment will bring such kind of stories with a regular interval to divert attention from the judges issue. Your indication about a border “heavy weight” clash with India cannot be ruled out either. “Heavy weight” in the sense of diversion. A planned exchange of fire in Kashmir maybe the worst threat to the democratic forces. At the same time I am convinced that these diverting tactics will NOT be a success for Mush and his lieutenants. People have become so aware of the real problems we are facing that all their dirty moves will be in vain, inshallah!

/Saqib

@Saqib
I believe that if the parliment moves quickly on the judges issue, IF it sincerely wants to restore them, and this is a big IF, then judges can be restored quickly. The problem is that people like Farooq Naik has been put in key positions who had already stated that this would have to be done with a 2/3rd majority.

If mainstream media like GEO is now starting to take side with MQM, establishment, etc., them who will unearth the truth and bring it to the attnetion of the masses?

MQM’s Corruption

200 BILLION Rupees worth government property distributed with Sector incharge of MQM. That property is sold and a long legal battle is required to take that back (because of new innocent owners).

Now we know why Altaf is worries about ‘Sard Mehri’ despite of his ‘Khair Sigali’ gestures in ‘NATIONAL INTERESTS’

http://jang.com.pk/jang/apr2008-daily/02-04-2008/main.htm

Do you think the right choices were made in the formation of the federal cabinet?
Honesty and Sincerity aside, do you thing the Ministers will be able to do justice with their respective portfolios considering that some of them already have highly demanding jobs?

Shahid Khaqan Abbasi, the new commerce minister is the Chairman and CEO of Airblue and running an airline is not an easy task.

@optimist
So when is Pakistan government starting to revive his cinema or should we allow Indian movies in our cinema halls? should there be ban on Shoaib Aklhtar or not? These are the serious issues you want to discuss, right. I never forced anybody to comment on khilafah but as I said secular-democrat can not resist, whenever they would see or hear a discussion going on about khilafah they will certainly jump in and would start there false, Baseless and empty propaganda in order to create a misconception about Islam and khilafah.

For the prophet of Allah (swt) the matter of implementing Islam was a matter of

“LEADERSHIP IN ISLAM”

Abu Bakr (ra) inaugural speech clearly demonstrates how Islam and the Muslims are to view leadership.

“O’ people, I swear by Allah that I never desired the leadership either by day or by night, nor did I have an inclination towards it…In fact a big task has been assigned to me which is beyond my power to fulfil except with the help of the Almighty Allah. Now undoubtedly I have been elected by you as Ameer although I am not better than you. Support me if I am right; correct me if I am wrong. Obey me as long as I obey Allah; obey me not when I disobey Him and His Prophet.

“Responsibility & Governance”

Islam has made responsibility and ruling over the masses as a heavy burden, accountable to Allah (swt).

Rasool Allah (saw) said,

Geo news is airing meray mutabiq’s promo but doesn’t tell about any schedule for the program. hopefully shahid masood will be back. What do you say guys?

Food crisis being felt around world

USA 2008: The Great Depression

A ‘perfect storm’ of hunger

Chaos on Wall Street

The End of Empire?

Pakistan’s neo-colonial rule
The people of Balochistan are demanding an end to Pakistani military operations and the restoration of self-rule

It is good to see PTV , giving sermon about personality of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto Shaheed. I hope mad dictator watches it , he used to love watching PTV all the time. I think he must be watching GEO right now if “Aaj Kamran Khan Kay Saath” is showing there

If things keep going like this , I think PPP/PML(N) should keep the mad dictator as president for 5 years. Move him to presidential palace in Islamabad, put PTV in his room and take away 58(2)-B and all other descritionary powers from him.

Pakistan quits Swiss case against Bhutto’s widower

http://www.reuters.com/article/gc04/idUSL0111938120080401

In other words, there is no denying the fact that a crime (rather crimes) have been committed. And to tell the truth, the amnesty was absolutely not for the good of the country. It was part of several Mush’s dirty plans to secure his power by amking deals with almost anyone who could sustain him in power. Deal with BB were part of the larger plans pushed by the US and UK. Pakistan and Pakistanis had absolutely nothing to do with it. Their good was not intended or part of the prioroties at all. Saying that forgiving crimes of Benazir and Zardari was in the good of the country is not correct at all. Zardari is a criminal, who sucked the blood of this nation and he will remain so. Mush is the one who allowed him to digest this blood and Zardari and his family is now free to enjoy the looted wealth. On the other head, people are starving, committing suicideds due to poverty, lack of employment, etc - people whose good is paraded to be the reason for granting amnesty to criminals.

children raped at Abu Ghraib, Pentagon has videos

http://www.boingboing.net/2004/07/15/hersh-children-raped.html

Mission accomplished. A nation liberated. Its president lynched. Its kids raped. Their moms turned to prostitutes. Their fathers tortured. Cities showered with white phosphorus. Mission accomplished. Democracy established.

Army Chief in Pakistan Wins Honor From U.S.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/washington/02policy.html?_r=1&ref=asia&oref=slogin

Given the track record of American elected and appointed officials lying, cheating and deceiving, one can safely say that neither is this a coincidence nor is it for anything other than currying favor with the new slave on the bloc.

@mbokhari
Well done brother, you have won, i will try my best to expand my mind and try to be as open minded as you are since GOD would ask me: why did you not try to be like mbokhari as he was the most wise, open minded, right, liberal, intelligent and modern person on earth? !! right?
Let me make it clear to you that for me first comes Islam and then other things and i will be as much modern as Allah wants me to be and not as much as so called open minded and liberals want me, i however listen to all and take their words with open mind. Let me make it also clear to you that Islam leads to the most modern, comfortable, successful life on earth and gaurantees success in herefater too. It is fault of our understanding that we limit, ignore and underestimate Islam. Sorry i am not at all fan of Bokonon or likes of him, you have right to do so as you are a free person. It however does not mean that people in West are stupids, i have been in West for 5 years and i know they are quite nice and intelligent people but i don’t find any reason to take their writings/philosophies above Quraan or Sunnah. I am not saying it like an emotional Muslim rather Islam proved its supriority over all other knowledges, it so far withstood all challenges from science, logic, philosophy etc. Again it is fault of us (Muslims) who could not properly follow Islam, sorry you can exclude yourself here as you are the perfect example i feel. You agree or not, it is your right.
I have few grave disagreements to HT, their goal is legitimate but i disagree to their methodology etc. I also have grave disagreemnts to mr. Usam and Co.
If i will like Halwa, i will definitely eat without being worried what other people think about me at least i will not care your words(sorry for that, you also have right not to care of my words rather you should not), i am so thankful to you however for your kind advice in regard of Halwa, a great idea indeed. Yes, i definitely will try to expand my mind, right sir? OHHH GOD expand my mind since it is ordrer of mbokhari.
Keep your spirits high and be happy. yes, do comment.
Best regards…

@zia m

Dear borther, i could understan to a good extent your background and philosophies. I respect your right of taking your choice but with due respect i do disagree to your philosophy and way!

I personally had some bad experiences in context of religion and i took my own way but my way is quite different to yours. I never felt any doubt about Islam however nor i am expecting any but i had bad experiences by followers, which is natural thing since human beings are different to each other and limited. I don’t believe in sects rather feel satisfied with Islam and only Islam (i.e. Quraan and Sunnah). I don’t claim that i am the right and the perfect one but so far i am satisfied by the help and blessings of Allah almighty, and i pray to HIM that he always helps me. I am however quite open to positive changes as man always needs to learn more. It would be nice to have some discussion with you. Feel free to share your email, you can do it through admin if don’t want to make it public.
Be happy.
Best regards,

Breaking news:
DG MI transaferred .. i.e Bahawalpur mein Khudday line laga dia. Please note DG MI Nadeem Taj is one of the most important person in mad dictator’s team.

@geog74: dude, I’ve never read your comments regarding all the corrupt jurnails, bureaucrats and officials who have actually been looting this country? I’m with you on wadera’s (incestually related to the army btw) and other business people (in politics) looting the wealth, but why don’t you EVER make an effort to be just about your criticisms?

Why is it that you people are always after the politicians (who are vicitimized by the military/bureaucratic apparatus most of the times) but never ever utter a PEEP against the military.

You just posted one anti political and one pro military piece.. A little perspective and balance please? Do you even know how much of the national wealth has been wasted by the Army and the rest siphoned off to foreign accounts?

this is what I hate about Islamists.. always there to ruin their nations unwittingly.

@rev

Jinaab Revivalist, adaab arz.

First of all apologies for bothering you since i had said that i wouldn’t. But if you have a minute read the following article. (not asking you to believe it) but just read it carefully (its only 4 pages) and let me know what you think.

http://www.cfpf.org.uk/articles/religion/br/br_god.html

All the best,

g.

Where’s that DOUCHE! Kashmeer Singh Burney?

http://dailywaqt.com/020408/Images/p7-30.gif

A pakistani woman languising in an Indian prison, but Kashmeer Shing Burni is busy blowing Indians who helped him get elected to the UNO “human rights” seat for his services in freeing their Spies.

What a joke!

Shauka Chore and his “Qabza Group No. 1″ pilfered 60 Billions and wanted to pilfer 200 (they had targets!) in total.

http://dailywaqt.com/020408/Images/bp-16.gif

“Lekin zardari nay ghoRay rakhay thay;…. kiay zulm kiaaa thaa.. GHOOOORRRRAAAYYY!!!.. yaa alha in politicians say kab jaaan chuRaahi gaa? Aray kayaani kahaaN hai tooooooo… abay mard ban..aur pakistan ko bachaaaaaa…ya allah is Zardari aour Nawaz sharif LUTAAARAY ko kiyoo nahi pakartaa… pak fauj ko salam.. pakistan first! grrrrrrrrefgrrrrrrrgrrrrrrr “

To the Optimists and like minded: Please have mercy on the Muslims. You have always supported dictatorships in the name of ‘Khilafah’. And to call the Ottomans autocrats ‘Khalifah’ and present that form of government as equivalent or superior to democracy is simply obnoxious. It is due to this backward mindset that the muslims all over the world are suffering. Democracy has its shortcomings but it is by far the best of all the forms of governments envisaged and practiced by human beings. I agree with a friend above that ‘Medrassahs’ must be forced to teach other liberal sciences and arts so that thay should be able to come out of their tunnel vision. The well beings of Muslims lies in secularism and democracy whether we like it or not is immaterial.
Watching geo tv and reading jang is nightmare. They have taken bribe from establishment and are on a mission to bail out Musharaf and the Army and the MQM. They dont talk about the real issues like the performance of Musharaf regime. They give endless coverage to less important issues like ban on shoaib and telephonic address of psychopath. They will never argue about the audit of the american money given to the generals in the last seven years. They will talk about the corruptions of politicians and burueaucrats but not the military. Jang group is extremely dishonest, I must say and they are doing everything to destablize Pakistan by supporting army. Nawai WAqt is not far behind by projecting the message of obscurantist elements of the society. But, hopefully, we’ll get these forces of exploitation and conspiracies exposed before public.

According to some student leaders (ISF UofP) a certain “Bhatta Khore” group of so called “Islamic” students are threatening other students who are joining their opponent parties.

subhaanalaah. .kia baat hai.. qulu linnaase hasana? oh no! just threaten them.. it is submission brothers.. submission to any tom dick harry who becomes pure and pavittre just by joining IJT

http://express.com.pk/images/NP_LHE/20080402/Sub_Images/1100380006-2.gif

Don’t expect whole lot of change…

” Gen. Kyani also informed Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani about the ongoing operation in tribal areas.

Co-chairman Pakistan People

@Rashid
The people have given mendate to the two leaders you mentioned. NS is not part of the parliament because he was not allowed to contest elections by the dictator , AZ is a senator. Both of them are the leaders of the parties which are mandated by the people of Pakistan to rule the country. YRG was nominated by PPP under the leadership of AZ and with the understanding of NS , don’t confuse YRG with Shaukat Aziz who was nominated by the dictator. They have all the rights to pull the strings of the new PM , and in fact if they don’t pull his strings , he may be like Farooq Laghari :).
They took part in the briefing as the leaders of ruling coalition , they have every right to be aware of the security situation in Pakistan as they are the ones who will be making the policies to run the country.

slogan of 90: “Altaf-Zardari bhai bhai”

I don’t know what the hell this Mr. 10% is going to do.

He is taking everyone on board…………………….. everyone will be in govt. particularly killers, corrupt ones.

where does position as control stands?

Government has asked for details on loans that were written off during Q league.

Apparently there is a record breaking 1.25 TRILLION rupees which were eaten by Mush?Q league supporters.

@ poola

Yeah, zardari did enough to ruin Pakistan by including fazlu in gov, now even if mqm is included in the coalition, I dont know what will happen…

And mqm has gone mad, just because zardari is going to them, they are so desperate to get into govt…

http://www.express.com.pk/epaper/Article.aspx?newsID=1100379587&Date=20080401&Issue=NP_LHEPehla Test by Javed Chaudhry
FAIL!!!

Oops!
Pehla Test

@Rashid: I tend to agree with your sentiment on the AZ/NS being present issue.. I don’t like the idea of non-elected people being given information about national security issues. But everyone is treating them as the “real” split-pm’s which is sad really.. I don’t have problem with NS or AZ being there when they are part of the power structure, but right now, this is just bending the rules..

hope they will try to get elected at least so we don’t have this issue. The only thing I can think of is that everyone knows that the PM will have to brief both of them, and it is better they hear it from the horse’s mouth.

I like the fact that the military structures are following the rules to some extent and not involving El Prezidente in these briefings.. He should be made ceremonial as soon as possible.

@pejamistri: sorry, gotta disagree with you bro. They are de-facto “Split-PM” but technically they DO NOT have the right to interefere in the sovereignty of the parliament.

In proper democratic institutions, the parties choose their leaders through conventions who then become PM’s if/when the party wins. Right now we have a situation that AZ has dubious mandate within the party itself (though he’s been acting admirably but we’re talking about empowering institutions and diminishing the role of personalities.. easier said than done.. agree!)

So, I think given the ground realities, it is probably better to include these two, but they Do Not have the mandate of the people to be in such high level meetings. But the fact is that the PM will have to brief them on this .. and to be honest, I don’t like this idea of YRG having to ask permission from AZ/NS combo every time there is a need to make a decision.. This situation will not be qualitatively different from the moshe & Shauka Chore relationship.

YRG represents the sovereignty of the Pakistani Nation, and NO ONE, even NS or AZ should be considered above the institution of the Prime Minister. Even the “president” himeself is not above him. AZ and NS being there without being granted the role of “special advisors” and therefore consititutional cover at least, is just in-appropriate when we talk of Restoring the Supremacy of the Institution that is the National Assembly of the Representatives of the Sovereign People of Pakistan. (that was a mouthful!.. hehe)

@Peja

Thanks for clearing that. Now I know that the policies will be made in Zardari House and Nawaz Murree Resort. Not in any government office. We can close down whole bunch of ministries and save some money
As for the mandate, my theory is that, people were tired and pissed off from last government. So the mandate is not for AZ and NS( they already had their turns) rather it was ANTI-Mush/PML-Q. Unfortunately, people don’t have a whole lot of choices. Remember the NS, PPP, NS, PPP governments. People weren’t giving mandate to PPP/NS rather they just felt so disappointed that they vote anti-government..whoever that maybe.

And can we move on please. Why is it that every criticism is compared to Musharraf. I know that Musharraf is a dictator and the last 8 years were horrible, however, we should not set the bar so low for the new government.

@TK
unfortunately Kiani went to see Mush Qutta soon after the briefing to PM
http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=42408

@Malek: Technically Mushie should have been in that meeting too. The president is the head of the armed forces (I don’t know if it is post Zia only or did the 73 constitution allow that as well?) In any case.. PPP should get off their a$$ and get Moshe out or clip his wings pronto!

Don’t fvkkin drag this sh!t on forever and ever. I think NS and AZ should be given the status of Special advisors to the PM if they want to sit in these meetings. This idea of getting non-elected people with people who have actually taken an oath and who technically represent the will of the peopl, just rubs me the wrong way.

And also, this gives all the nay sayers something to crow about.

Also don’t get me wrong people, I am just a fool that way. We should criticize those we support as well.. let us keep a check and a keen eye on our beloved ‘democratic forces’.

Pakistan government has failed the first test. All corrupt and criminals are back in the positions of power, starting with the advisor to the prime minister.

http://www.express.com.pk/epaper/Article.aspx?newsID=1100379587&Date=20080401&Issue=NP_LHE

The masters have made sure their slave Musharraf stays where he is

http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/Apr-2008/1/index6.php

@Rashid Peja TK

i think we need to note that the issue here is quite different/complicated i.e ‘the ongoing operation in tribal areas…on the behest of US/Mush’

to deal with such an issue one will need people power behind them (and people have voted for NS and AZ as heir to BB) so it is important for NS and AZ to attend this meeting to understand the issue ‘first hand’

however i agree issues must be left to PM/Cabinet but there are few issues like restoration of judiciary, ‘getting rid’ of Mush and operation in tribal areas where direct involvement of NS and AZ will be valuable to comply with the mandate of people

5 Maj-Gens asked to quit civilian posts

http://www.dawn.com/2008/04/01/top11.htm

The question is: What were these major generals doing in the civilian departments in the first place? This is the kind of invisible occupation of the country by its own armed forces. This occupation will previal despite the symbilic withdrawal of a few officers. see here http://dictatorshipwatch.com/occupation_prevails.pdf

@TK

bro sorry but i have to disagree with your comment that ‘Technically Mushie should have been in that meeting too’

Technically, Mushi the ‘Suar ka bacha’ should not be in that meeting but actually behind bars where ordinary hawaldars should be giving him ‘treatment’ with special chittars….. before being taken to ‘phansi ka phanda’ in connection with violation of Article 6….

i am sure you have thought much worse than this for the Jackal General….but thats all i could come up with for now….rushing to finish work and get home!!

@Malek: I agree with your reasoning. .and that is what I tried to get at in my response to @Rashid as well, but I think we need to give some status to these two gentlemen until they get elected, administer an oath to them and then by all means include them in these talks..

If that incompetent Rehman Malik can become special advisor, then why not these two. An elected PM with a vote of confidence is one of the main pillars of our democracy. This meeting shows flaws in the way our ‘democratic’ system is set up and many things that are wrong with the way parties do their business un-democratically.

This reminds me of Javed Hashmi…

PM vows to end extremism with political tactics

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=42442

@geog47: I disagree with the choice of words, not “All corrupts and criminals” are back.

Is Khwaja Saad RafiQue a criminal? Kh. Asif a criminal? Is YRG a criminal? Is Fehmida Mi..

So your broad brush statement is incorrect. Yes, there are problems in the setup, but that doesn’t mean it is worse than the Kleptocracy set up by Moshe Kutyaan.

oh, and get your stones ready boys, but do remember what Jesus said that one time.

Zardari arrives at Nine Zero

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=42444

@Maled: dude I agree with you.. my response to u is in moderation (even on the moshe part) .. I mean “the president”.. and I don’t for a second think of him as a legitimate prez.. and that’s why I said they need to get rid of him or clip his wings post haste!

cheers!

do’h!!!!! ‘Malek” sorry I ruind ur nick

@TK: “Also don

Fateha season in Pakistan. Everyone offering Fateha for everyone.

AZ doing Fateha for Abba Ji. NS doing Fateha for BB
AZ offering Fateha for MQM ‘Shuhada’. MQM offering Fateha for Benazir.
Next will be Naseerullah Babar offering Fateha for MQM workers and MQM offering Fateha for Hakeem Saeeed.

I wish someone asks these people to say Fateha aloud. Really interested to know what they actually say when offering Fateha.

@TK
I can agree with you theoritically, and agree practically on the point of criticising the politicians specially the ones in government.
But I always feel that somehow our people start asking the politicians to be angels, we start expecting everything to be utopian as soon as a deomcratic government comes. Just look at the role of Sonia Gandhi in India , she has been calling shots all along , has been part of some very important meetings and is revered as the real leader , despite Manmohan Singh being the PM.
So let us not expect them to be angels and follow every iota of the rule. There is always a difference between felony and misdemeanor.

Seems there is some sinister game being played by the establishment, PTV is giving some real hype to the “AZ at Nine Zero”. At the moment PTV is still under controls of establishment. And to me it seems that establishment is expecting to get something out of this meeting. Let’s see what comes out, my fingers are crossed.

I am afraid that many of our politicians haven’t learned much or rather are NOT willing to learn from past blunders. For me it seems like the many of the PPPP politicians are playing a waiting game. They want to cushion the effects of democracy, which they interestingly themselves have been a part of, but that is nothing new for them. Politicians from various parties including PPPP have been showing a “MIRAGE of DEMOCRACY” to the Pakistani nation for ages. How can we expect these old horses to change themselves? Isn’t it us who are committing blunders by believing them. Shouldn’t they have been exchanged with new faces i.e. a new lot of politicians?

AZ is at nine-ZERO point……..For what? Is it something which will benefit Pakistan? No, way this is a step in the wrong direction. We are getting a more clear picture of what AZ is planning to do. He is playing foul at a time where every sincere politician MUST show ZERO tolerance towards Gangsters, murderers, dictators, bhatta khor etc.

I suppose the plan is to corrupt the media especially GEO MQM TV by collaborating with both Mush and MQM. Before GEO MQM TV started the Mush-MQM campaign we had ARY indulged in MQM propaganda. ARY has kept the level of MQM propaganda at the same level, but GEO has increased it to even a much higher level than ARY propaganda. The print media has always been vulnerable to shady business.

What is acting as a check block on the corrupt politicians road? The lawyers movement has developed in to a real fight where we on one hand have the opportunistic politicians waiting for weaknesses in the lawyers ranks and on the other side we are witnessing a unique movement in the history of Pakistan which is declining to die. The lawyers and the APDM have been fighting their case for a year, which beyond everyone’s expectations, and we will inshallah witness their victory in the near future. The politicians has got a fair time span to show results otherwise the will be facing the wrath of the lawyers and APDM. I am eagerly waiting for the time when these democracy fighters will let the turn coats feel the heat, but off course I hope the politicians will get their acts together and perform according to the wishes of the Pakistani people!

/Saqib

Amazing if AZ has to hear the sermon of Altaf Bhai, I think that should be enough to break all the talks between PPP and MQM. BTW don’t miss this helarious show right now on GEO, another unparalleled performance of Altaf Chooran wala

Actually AH is now feeling isolation and so his actions! AZ, the way he talked along with NS, can not do any thing in favor of establishment.

We need to realize that NS and AZ or PPPs stance is different on various matters so not every action should be seen as pro or anti establishment.

the test case is indeed CJ restoration. Theoretically speaking assume NS in AZ position, how he would have moved?

Qadeer waiting for detention end

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=42450

BAGAIRAT NATION, LANAT ON ALL PAKIS… DHOOB KE MARAJAO

hahaha .. AZ is standing hearing the altaf chooran wala …. that is perhaps even a bigger torture that he would have received in the jail.

Asif bhai ab aap ki khidmat mein …

geog47:

AQ Khans’ greatness is beyond Mush, politicians or any one else. It is not uncommon to see such great people suffer from misery in the history of Pakistan.

I am hopeful to see him free again

:) ……… this is helarios …. one of the biggest comedy show in the absence of Wasi Zafar and Sher Afgan