aoa

@admin

any shows coming tonight thnx.

check todays cartoon:
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=200845/story_5-4-2008_pg3_8

@saqibtahir/LalluLaWhori,

You have committed violation of Article 1 of PkPolitics constitution and Article 6 will be applied on next attempt.

Admin

Mush doesn’t represent us. He is a sign of hatred. He is visiting China to represent us (probably he’ll oversee the business of his son’s firms’ Shanghai office).

We should think ways to stop him from representing us in China. Shall we start writing Chinese embassies and ask them to invite our PM, rather than this lame duck.

Any suggestions?

Interview/Dr Ayesha Siddiqa, Pakistan military expert

‘Musharraf has no future’

How do you see Musharraf’s moves towards Israel?

He thinks that if Pakistan makes Israel happy it will make Washington happy. There would be a long-lasting relationship. He wants to deliver something to Washington that no Pakistani politician can. That includes starting a relationship with Israel or initiating a Middle East dialogue.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/mar/20inter.htm

Special documentary on Bhutto by AAJ TV coming shortly.

Admin

admin,

what other programs are u going to post?

NATO is working on long term alternate supply routes to Afghanistan through Russia.

Expect more trouble in Pakistan.

http://www.ummatpublication.com/newsfiles/data/news-19.gif

@Optimist

Thanks. Great article. I notice it was written almost YEAR ago.

“Right now, there is no political leader who can step in and say that he is going to provide the umbrella, a leadership to these processions and protests against the Chief Justice’s sacking and turn it into a political movement. In fact one of the strengths of Pakistan military is the lack of proper leadership. There is no political movement that can bring mass mobilisation. Only thing that scares the military is mass mobilisation.

Enter: NAWAZ SHARIF. 2008 is the year of Nawaz Sharif.

In any case those mullahs about whom Americans complain about are partners of the Americans. America has always provided money to Jamat-e-Islami. They have always been friends of Jamat. So what is their complaint?

Bhutto Documentary added. Should keep everyone busy for 2 hours.

Admin

The PPP
Sunday, April 06, 2008
Dr Farrukh Saleem

According to a 2008 exit poll by Gallup Pakistan, 43 per cent of the PPP voters are “illiterate” while only 26 per cent of the PML voters are “illiterate”. Furthermore, a mere 5 per cent of the PPP voters are “college-educated” while the PML’s “college-educated” voters are twice that many.

A typical PML voter is urbanized, relatively better educated and upwardly mobile. This is the Pakistani that’s growing. A typical PPP voter lives in a rural area with almost no education. This is the Pakistani that’s shrinking. No wonder, PML’s constituency is growing and PPP’s is shrinking.

Punjabi politics is fast becoming issue-based as opposed to emotion-driven.

PPP is having difficulty grasping the emergence of at least two new centres of power — the electronic media and the lawyers’ community both as parts of the new, reawakened civil society.

Clearly, the politics of ‘roti, kapra and makaan’ work no more (even less so in a future election). Punjabi vote is moving away from personalization of politics to issues. So should the PPP. Pakistani vote will be a cult no more in the next election.

Any PHP guru around ?

Admin

admin can u plz upload April 4 capitol talk. would like to see wat Ahmed Raza Kasuri says about Shaheed ZAB judicial murder.

Okay .. check back Capital Talk in 30-40 minutes.

Anyone know even basic PHP?

Admin

We are a nation little given to research and detail. May be it is our national character, may be our colonial past, or perhaps the version of Islam imposed upon us. Hardly any research in science and technology, what to talk of arts and politics. I believe if we had think tanks, the kind America’s national security agency does, we could unearth many of the grand plans of US for our region and world at large, simply by analysing in detail American dealings with Mush regime since day one. And we could get good results because I am sure Americans werent careful enough in their correspondence thinking Mush regime to be relatively stupid and controlable and Pakistan a backward country. And also because being only super power gives a false sense of security, as well as confidence, and we all know neo cons well and their inablity to hide their real motives.

Something tells me their plans are not coming forth as they planned. It shows in their frustration. I dont know where to start but american love affair with mush is beyond comprehension. Why are they running around like bunch of directionless kids in panic ever since judicial crises. Why such opposition to CJ iftikhar. What have they got to fear from him. Is it the missing persons cases they fear. Anything peculiar about them. After all, label them jihadis and cases would linger forever and ever in national and international courts and fall out of interest and public concious. Who are they holding. Why are they going after and meeting every peter and pan in Pakistan. America of old never did strange things like that. They used to just pull strings from a distance. What a super power has to fear from bunch of suicidal jihadis in our tribal areas who would just kill each other if you left them alone.

Our establishment is theirs and so is each and every bullet, gun, tank, as well as nuclear assets we possess. They can have them and use them whenever they want, or simply destroy them at will. I am not ready to believe they fear any nuclear take over from jihadis. No sane man has come up with any justification for such a fear.

The American century, american influence in central asia to put a hook on russia, how to hook china, chinese in balochistan, balochistan in neo con map of the muslim world, america in iraq, in afghanistan, europeon union, american economy, oil, musharaff do more, nuclear deals with india and God knows what else. But what is this all leading towards. What are they trying to achieve. What is their grand plan. who are they trying to corner. Analysts believe territorial make up is key in a conflict. Once Hitler had Austria, conquering europe was a piece of cake. Then which is the ‘key’ here. If we look at the world map, the key out of all these problems and for the advent of an american millenium and end of the world as we know it, specially the muslim world, is ……………. IRAN

@fas: Your analysis rings my conspiracy bells! and there is a lot of prescient questions you pose. But I think their long term goals in Iran are not to control it.. but to do what they did in Gulf War I..

I call it the Commodo Dragaon technique. You bite the prey and run away.. let the wounds fester and then come back in 10 years and try to take over.. This blew up in their face in Iraq and Iran will be the end of these here little fellers if they tried this in Iran.

But I agree with your general sentiment, They are after Iran (IMO to cripple it and possible shatter the entity — to protect the interests of the sterile child.)

PNAC’s wet dreams not withstanding, I think this century is going to be farthest from being an American one. Ni How Maaa!

Hassan Nisar dissects the rotting corpse of our body politic

A nice article to be read.
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/apr2008-daily/06-04-2008/col6.htm

@Admin
How basic? I might be able to do basic things, please let me know your requirement.

@TK:
They are not after the body, but the soul. Rules of empire building have changed which is evident from thousands of american bases around the world. Who wants to rule and feed and manage hundreds of millions of citizens when there are other better ways of achieving your objectives.

Softening, or in some cases, cornering the target is a must in a conflict, which was done through IAEA in the case of Iraq in second attempt. But I wouldnt agree with your ten year theory. America was doing everything by the book in 1991, that is to say they had effectively captured the soul of Iraq. Everything else should’ve followed as planned. But they didnt anticipate strength of Saddam to whithstand rebellion. But mostly, Bush Sr was basking in his easy victory and new found glory. Perhaps he wanted to leave toppling of saddam for his second term so he could be a hero twice. Big mistake.

Then comes Bush Jr and thank God for the birth of this man. I think he has effectively stopped the clock of american expansionism and influence single handedly. And I can claim this with authority because I have forcasted the outcome of many of his major moves with relatively good success(i have proves). I couldnt believe when america actually sent their troops into afghanistan. What was the need for it. Were there goldmines to protect. Then why walk into a quagmire voluntarily. I announced to my friends right there and then that in their fervor, americans have made a fatal blunder. Let us hope that the next president they choose is not a thinking one who might put the country back on track, then who will challenge them for not just a hundred years but five hundred to be exact. That’s how much ahead they are in their strategic setup in the world and outer space.

So I guess you are right. This may not be the American century after all, but the century of american tragedy. Unfortunately, in the course of this tragic play, maps around the world will change and many states, countries and nations will cease to exit.

who is like the beast
who can make war with th beast
The beast is the greatest
Isnt the beast just wonderful! what a dream (bible)

@TK
Regarding my earlier post about central banks, I wish I had access to some docs (e.g. Capital Issues (Continuance of Control) Act 1947, Trust Act 1882, Insurance Act 1938, Register of Shareholders of the SBP) but here is some info I found on the sbp.gov.pk site itself.
- Note the definition on page 1 of the “THE STATE BANK OF PAKISTAN ACT, 1956″ of “annual general meeting”: means the annual meeting of the shareholders of the Bank. Yes, SBP has shareholders and you and I ain’t among them!
- Page 4 talks of the “Register of shareholders” as well. As to who can be a shareholder it goes on to state:
a corporation or company incorporated by or under any law for
the time being in force in any other country and having a branch
in Pakistan; shall be registered as a shareholder or be entitled to payment of
any dividend on any share, and no person who, having been duly
registered as a shareholder ceases to be qualified to be so registered,
shall be able to exercise any of the rights of a shareholder
otherwise than for the purpose of the sale of his shares.
(Sounds like a corporation to me)
- See the list of Board of Directors of SBP. How many seem to be public servants?

@mbokhari
And yes, there is an illuminati, so to speak…
“.. we conclude that the [Federal] Reserve Banks are not federal … but are independent privately owned and locally controlled corporations… without day to day direction fromthe federal government.”
-9th Circuit Court in Lewis vs United States, June 24, 1982

“History shows that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit and violent means possible to maintain control over governments by controlling the money and the issuance of it.”
President James A. Madison

Sorry about all bold — forgot the closing tag…

No comments

http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/apr2008-daily/06-04-2008/update.htm#27

@nota state bank of pakistna was nationalised in 1974, and it ahsnt been privatised then.

Zardari’s drug case adjourned

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008328story_28-3-2008_pg7_32

So it is not just corruption, murder and stealing. Mr. 10% had a hand in drugs as well.

http://dictatorshipwatch.com/index.php

Qadir Magsi condemns Zardari’s move to please MQM

http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id=104717

Zardari is not going against the wishes of the voters for the sake of reconciliation. The timing of the US ambassador’s meeting with the leaders of the terrorist MQM shows the game is far more sinister than one can imagine.

http://dictatorshipwatch.com/index.php

Zardari offers governorship to Iftikhar Chaudhry

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=200844story_4-4-2008_pg1_9

What else does Zardari know other than crime, bribes and corruption. He is now bribing the Chief Justice so that Mush’s hand-picked judges could continue building on their first crime of granting legitimacy to a tyrant’s unconstitutional and criminal acts.

http://dictatorshipwatch.com/index.php

Judges ditched by Zardari too!

http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=World_News&subsection=Pakistan & Sub-Continent&month=April2008&file=World_News200804061812.xml

Musharraf’s survival strategy

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/apr/05pak.htm

Why would a tyrant and his confidant be so happy and satisfied? Because they see that their tyranny is no longer threatened. As a newly appointed slave, Zardari is doing exactly the same thing, following the script from his new masters in Washington and making sure Mush’s tyranny survives. That is the only way for Zardari to avoid paying back for his crimes.

http://dictatorshipwatch.com/index.php

Dispute over MQM

http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/Apr-2008/6/editorials1.php

Look at the timing of Zardari’s overtures towards MQM. Zardari’s out of the way reconciliatory moves are perfectly timed with the US ambassador’s meeting with Altaf in UK. Everything is geared toward post elections manipulations to find new allies for General Musharraf. A new King Party is in the making for Musharraf. Zardari is working on the US agenda far more quicker and dutifully than anyone could expect.

http://dictatorshipwatch.com/index.php

US ambassador meets the terrorist

http://www.dawn.com/2008/04/06/top14.htm

Those who don’t know the terrorist natute of MQM must see this: Muttahida Quomi Mahaz ,Terrorist Group of Pakistan, YouTube - MQM Terrorism in 12 May 2007, YouTube - MQM Terrorism exposed by Imran Khan again Part 2, MQM – A terrorist outfit: main Ally of Musharraf , MQM declared a terrorist organization by a canadian court …, MQM is exposed - liver coverage of MQM terrorism, MQM attack on Aaj TV, Official cars distributing weapons to MQM militants caught on TV.

http://dictatorshipwatch.com/index.php

Three die at snow-blocked mountain pass in Pakistan

Lowari Pass, the shortest access to Chitral valley from the south, generally remains closed for vehicles from November to May, with travellers preferring to cross it on foot rather than opting for alternative routes, including one through neighbouring Afghanistan.

An 8-kilometre-plus railroad tunnel is being built to provide an all-weather passage.

This 8-km tunnel is pending since the time of Zulfiqar ali Bhutto in the 70s. The priorities since then changes from local development to wars for the United States. Others preferred to stash billions in foreign accounts rather than finishing the left over 6km tunnel. And the poor and helpless people keep suffering and dying at the bottom of the food chain. This news is a matter of shame for those in the position of power who are still sitting of billions in stolen money.

http://dictatorshipwatch.com/index.php

@fas: I agree with your “softening” theory. And yeah GWB has been the worst thing that could happen to America. Even though he has been a tool in every sense of the word, I think his total ‘toolage’ has actually retarded the neo-con agenda.

@nota: thanks for the links, I wasn’t sure what the exact strucutre was for SBP.. I always thought it was a state corporation but I don’t have a clue about banking and how these things work..

one thing I don’t understand.. might sound stupid.. how the hell does zimbabe have to print 50 million dollar notes (euql to 1 dollar) ?? Why don’t they just say. 5 Rand (or whatever) is equal to 1 dollar? how does this money value go down? I don’t get it..

re: Illuminati, I don’t know bro, I do think there are secret societies , but a global one and all that just doesn’t seem possible mainly because humans are just too unpredictable and they would keep usruping this ‘matrix-like’ rule of any over-organized group like illuminati.

Though free-masons have played a role in many governments, but I think it is because that they are just a clique of loosely organized educated people. I think the intelligence is key. Everytime you get a bunch of smart people together who start helping each other just a little bit.. it creates a favorable situation for that group.

Since we are talking freemasonry, do you think there is masonic implications in the creation of Pakistan? I sometimes wonder… at least the designers of the parliament and ‘presidential monstrositypalace’ seem to have been masons..

@commoner: do u think the ppp worker attack on pml-n offices is an attempt by the MAF group to widen the rift?

this is not good!

@TK
Honestly I dont know. I was just highlighting the national qabza group mentality across the political divide.

Now this would be a good start:

http://www.dawn.com/2008/04/06/top3.htm

@TK
“how the hell does zimbabe have to print 50 million dollar notes (euql to 1 dollar)”

How about a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:500000000000_dinars.jpg>50 BILLION dinar note? Things can get much worst still for Zim.

I really don’t know. I do know it has to do with printing money without anything to back it up. Let’s say Zimbabwe has no more income. But salaries have to be paid/expenses incurred and in order to buy time, the central bank simply prints more and more bank notes. Of course “production” have not increased at the same pace. What do you end up with? Say earlier you had 100 widgets in the market and 100 dollars floating in the market (cost of 1 widget = 1 dollar). Now you print another 100 dollars and float it in the market but there are still only 100 widgets. What happens? Now the same widget costs $2. Now what happens if you print another $1000 without producing any more widgets? Of course the price of widgets goes up to $12. But it is the same bl**dy widget now costing 12 times more. What if this trend continues? Also remember the bill in your pocket has that value because you think it has that value and others think the same and will accept it at that. What if they loose that confidence? What happens then? Look up “Hyperinflation” and “Fiat Currency” if you want to know more.

Let me mention an example here though it has to do with inflation only. My cousin is very happy that he got offered Rs 3 crores for his house which he bought new around 1977 for Rs 5 lac. Now tell me has the value of property gone up 60 times or has the rupee taken a beating? Keep in mind it is the same house, just older now. Also keep in mind that if he sells it and wants to buy another one just like it today, he certainly will have to pay Rs. 3 crore, again leaving him with nothing. So did he really gain anything — in real terms — with this “phenomenal” increase in his asset’s price?

Note: What is scary is what is going to happen here. Here are two facts:
1) Our production has gone down during Mush years.
2) In the same time period our money supply has increased at least 8-fold.
And people wonder why prices are going up. If they think the prices are high now, they should see where they will be by the end of this year. And the year after that. And the year after that. Let me guarantee you that you will see a major devaluation of the rupee this year (the only reason you haven’t seen it already is because it is pegged to the USD which is itself taking a beating). The real value of rupee is really a tenth of what it is right now and getting lower by the day. Let’s see what the new government does. If they continue with increasing the money supply without increase in production to back it up, days are not far when you will be seeing a Rs 50,000,000 note
I know that word “Illuminati” rubs people the wrong way but please try to get over it. Forget about it and read it as meaning “Bankers”. Of course it’s still considered a CT but I am sticking with it.
“Freemasonry” (like the word “illuminati”) certainly carries a lot of baggage with it. Though I have read a few things on it, I still don’t have a clue about it. I certainly was surprised to find a lot of their greetings/rituals seem to be copied from islam and that fez has always aroused my curiosity….

Oops! Link to the 50,000,000,000 Dinar Note

@TK
Here is an interesting book on Freemasonary:
RITES OF ISLAM that you can download from Scribd…

@nota: thanks for that link and the explanation. I think the key is the ‘psychology’ that you mentioned. When I recieve the money I have no Idea how much money has been printed and neither does anyone else around me..

It seems there are certain ‘arbiters’ of price that say, “from now on, the psychological price of money is 8 fold!” or whatever..

I guess I have always had trouble with this thing of markets developing a price.. kinda like the networks of th neurons give rise to consciousness..

Anyhoo.. I think the dollar was Rs 6 in 77 so your cousin may have broken even, and he got all that use out of it.. but yeah.. this is something I see a lot in Pakistan.. ppl talk about property appreciating in value but they completely disregard the drop in Rupee’s value and don’t compare with reference currencies like Dollar (not so much now… but still)

Also, I sometimes wonder what is the difference btween printing 8 billion and getting 8 billion (in aid) or having 8 billions worth of ‘goods’ to back up the printed money…

It seems to me the international finance system is the one that is setting these prices and they way to complete ‘the circuit’ is to en-snare the victim nations to agree to have loans at international rates, which also, then determine the price of your currency. So maybe it has something to do with that..

Like in USSR, the money was ‘funny-money’ but it was good enough to have the people a decent standard of living.. or maybe It was the central bank disconnected from the international banks..

I really should take an economics course

Where is Altaf Hussain? Nobody knows. Why did Anne Peterson meet him? Is he already in Pakistan…Breaking News

@TK, nota

whoa whoa…ease up you guys…my heard is starting to hurt. Too much economics!!! I know I shoulda done a BCom instead of learning about circuits and sh!t….

But nota, I am afraid you are right about the coming economic tsunami when property prices crash, rupee does a free fall and people will be unable to pay their mortgages and leases on cars and stuff…The middle-class that kicked Mush’s ass is about to disappear again…Bye bye judges… ‘;-(

Whatever the contents of the forthcoming package, repeal of the FCR has been rejected outright by tribal elders and the clerics have gleefully demanded enforcement of Sharia to fill the void.

“…But when all has been said, my friend and former police IG Arbab Hedayatullah, who now lives on the edge of the tribal area, strikes a despondent note. The mullah, he says, has replaced the malik all over. The political agent thus has become irrelevant. Now only the army can tame the child it once fathered…”

First case of Human to Human bird flu xmission in Pakistan confirmed (happened Nov Last year)

http://www.ebiologynews.com/4229.html

Funny you mentioned “Funny Money” — Really all money is funny/fiat. Here is an interesting exchange between Governor FRB Eccles and Congressman Patman during hearings of the House Committee on Banking and Currency from 1941:

Congressman Patman(CP): “How did you get the money to buy those two billion dollars worth
of Government securities in 1933?”

GE: “Never, not in your lifetime or mine.”

But you are right — the Russian money was “funny” because “it was the central bank disconnected from the international banks.” And you are right again here: “It seems to me the international finance system is the one that is setting these prices and they way to complete ‘the circuit’ is to en-snare the victim nations to agree to have loans at international rates, which also, then determine the price of your currency.”

Some additional quotes to ponder on:
“History shows that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit and violent means possible to maintain control over governments by controlling the money and the issuance of it.” — President James A. Madison

“Give me control over a man’s economic actions, and hence over his means of survival, and except for a few occasional heroes, I’ll promise to deliver to you men who think and write and behave as I want them to.” — Benjamine A. Rooge

“Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce.” — President James A. Garfield

“The Federal Reserve (Banks) are one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen. There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this Nation is run by the International Bankers.” — Rep. Louis McFadden

“(The Great Depression resulting from the Stock Market crash) was not accidental. It was a carefully contrived occurrence….The international bankers sought to bring about a condition of despair here so they might emerge as rulers of us all.” — Rep. McFadden testified in Congress (1933). There were at least two attempts on his life by gunfire. He died of suspected poisoning after attending a banquet.

“The real truth of the matter is, and you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the US. since the days of Andrew Jackson. History depicts Andrew Jackson as the last truly honorable and incorruptible American president”. — President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, November23, 1933 in a letter to Colonel Edward Mandell House

“By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose“. — John Maynard Keynes, economist and author of “The Economic Consequences Of The Peace”

“Inflation has now been institutionalized at a fairly constant 5% per year. This has been determined to be the optimum level for generating the most revenue without causing public alarm. A 5% devaluation applies, not only to the money earned this year, but to all that is left over from previous years. At the end of the first year, a dollar is worth 95 cents. At the end of the second year, the 95 cents is reduced again by 5%, leaving its worth at 90 cents, and so on. By the time a person has worked 20 years, the government will have confiscated 64% of every dollar he saved over those years. By the time he has worked 45 years, the hidden tax will be 90%. The government will take virtually everything a person saves over a lifetime“. — G. Edward Griffin, historian and author of “The Creature From Jekyll Island”

@mbokhari
“The middle-class that kicked Mush’s ass is about to disappear again”

About? There is already no “middle” class. That is another big con — to make people think they are richer than ther are. Just because you are stup!d enough to buy a Nokia costing more than your months salary does not make you middle-class though you might feel like a somebody acquiring one. One must really define here what exactly is “middle class”. I remember a study done in US a few years back that dealt with this very question. When asked, more than 80% people believed themselves to be “middle class” but in reality less than 10% really were (if you live paycheck to paycheck you are NOT middle class, no matter what you believe). Although I couldn’t find that study, here is an article that comes close to what I am talking about.

Compare today to American “middle class” back in the 1950’s: A middle class family had only one person working but was able to live comfortably(had a house, support his wife and children, able to buy a new car every couple of years, save some money, pay for all his kids’ college expenses). Today’s middle class income person can’t dream of that and that is with his wife working as well.

Coming soon to a neighborhood near you:
British fear US commander is beating the drum for Iran strikes
Petraeus Testimony Next Week Will Signal Iran Attack

@TK
@mbokhari
Speaking of the middle class, here is an example of the really downtrodden:
Buddy, Can You Spare a Billion?

Gore Vidal knows what he is talking about here (though it is true not just for US):
“America is a unique society in which we have free enterprise for the poor and socialism for the rich.”

America would not tolerate Mush for a second after their Iran plans are implemented successfully. Time is running out. They are already late in their implementation, hence this urgeency. American establishment is confused. If they want to strike Iran, time is right now within the next two months. After the presidential election goes into high gear late this summer, any attack might jeopardise the position of their man, John Mccain.
I cannot emphasise enough the implications of such an attack for the world at large and muslims in particular. It will be the end of business as usual for the whole world. All our tehreeks, ideologies, struggles would come to not, depending on the degree of success americans command in their latest adventure.

Was IRWC seleeping until now?
India launches water aggression against Pakistan in collaboration with Jewish lobby: IRWC

@nota: leave it to the frikking beardo’s to blame everything on the damn jewish lobby. WTF was he and his IRWC buddies doing all this time that India got the time to “sneak in” 12 dams? Now he comes and tells us?

What nerve these people have.. wtf were they doing? what were our agencies doing.. Oh wait.. I know what our agencies doing… THEY WERE DIGGING UP DIRT ON POLITICAL ENEMIES FOR MUSH KUTTA while INDIA WAS STEALING ALL OUR WATER..

J.T.F.C !!!

“saleable commodity” my ar$e! I wouldn’t pay two dried dung-cakes for this murder farker.

The water issue is of utmost concern for the existence of Pakistan….no water…no Pakistan. India will have the ultimate key to blackmail us in the future if we don’t act strongly. I would suggest @dmin to create a new thread on this VERY GRAVE issue.

/Saqib

@fas

The Yankees and the Russians are maybe reaching an understanding about the American missile shield in Europe.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6729751.stm

The Yankees are planning to target Iran, but be aware….we are not safe either. I am not so sure that it is Iran or Pakistan who will be attacked first. The Yankees are “cooking” more than one “meal”.

/Saqib

A. Q. Khan says he took blame twice to save country

Updated at: 1635 PST, Monday, April 07, 2008
ISLAMABAD: Nuclear scientist Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan has said he twice saved Pakistan by acknowledging accusations of exporting nuclear secrets to Iran, North Korea and Libya.

Talking to a French news agency, Dr. A. Q. Khan said that PML-Q leader Chaudhery Shujaat Hussain and Secretary General Mushahid Hussain Syed have also acknowledged that he took the blame only for his country. He said new government had not established any contact with him. Dr. Qadeer said he had full faith in Almighty Allah and recital of the Holy Quran gave him peace of mind during his confinement.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=42860

Lanat upon Pakistanis for treating its heros in this manner…

I feel so sorry for Mr. A.Q. Khan. For which crime is he being punished?
The culprits are free and the hero is disgraced….In fact we are all disgraced.

/Saqib

Disgraced nation deserves disgraced rulers…

After Iran, there will never be any need to attack any other muslim country. Islam will cease to be an effective force for all times. It will be the crossing of rubicon, fatah-e-Makkah, panipat for the new conqueres. Poles will shift, a new era will begin and the future of mankind will take on a new direction. Big words but true as today’s sun.

It seems very obviouse that Chaudhry Aitezaz Ahsan and PPP are on different pages now.

“SCBA president demanded PPP leadership to make Pervez Musharraf apologize on disrespecting Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and Benazir Bhutto, adding he will then make Iftikhar Mohammed Chaudhry to seek apology from the nation over taking oath under PCO”

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=42868

@geog47, saqib

So what in your opinion should have been done to tackle this proliferation issue?

Pakistan: Torture gets embedded in policing

RAWALPINDI, (Dawn): Police brutality is now deeply embedded in the society as 50 cases of torture involving policemen and jail guards have been documented between January 1, 2007, and April 5 this year.

http://dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=4696&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

Excellent move by AA

Musharaf has blasted ZAB , BB in the line of fire.
PPP leaders badar and ghulam abbas asking chaudhary to apologize for judicila murder, which i think if done will be very good.

But what about Musharaf, a national asset?

‘Musharraf agrees to work with reduced powers’

http://dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=4689&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

Please get used to this kind of nonsense from the new puppet regime in Islamabad.

Why won’t Mush agree to work with reduced power when his crimes are forgotten; when he is accepted as a president despite all his illegal and constitutional moves; when he is not going to be booked and brought to justice for his crimes against humanity; when his skin is saved and when he remains in power as per wishes of his masters.

People didn’t vote the new faces in power (and rejected the lot that was supporting Mush) to prolong Musharraf rule. They elected the new faces to throw him out at the very least. A person who illegally imposed himself as the president needs not be in that position for one day, even if he has absolutely no power at all - let alone reduced power for another five years.

Musharraf does not deserve to be there just to please the warlords in Washington. People voted the new government to bring some sanity to the abuse of power they have been witnessing for the past eight years. They did not elect them to work according to the same wishes of the masters from abroad which made them detest Mush in the first place.

We did not want Mush to be there for such subservience. Why would we want new faces to continue doing the same dirty, slave work. Pakistanis need a break from boot-licking!! Is anyone in Islamabad hearing this?????????????

@nota
I’ll try and find the link for the text but i think you will find this interesting. I found it at some forum and saved it. I always wondered if these guys can be the roots for free masons?

“The First Liberals
The description of this community was taken from “Ikhwan al-Safa by Omar A. Farrukh, Ph.D, Member of the Arab Academy, Damascus (Syria)”, available here: http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/hmp/18.htm

Ikhwan as-Safa were the first liberals. They understood that the religion created more problems than it solved. In the words of Dr. Omar A. Farrukh, the Ikhwan sought “refuge from the struggle that was raging among religious congregations, national societies, and Muslim sects themselves”, a struggle that has continued to this day with Madrassah’s of all sects churning out maniacs like Abu-Musab al-Zarqawi.

Eurpoean students who studied in the world’s top ranking universities in Baghdad, Basra, Kufa, Damascus and other Muslim cities, took up the theme of liberalism from Ikhwan as-Safa and returned to Europe to spread the word. Thus, Europe, which was on the brink of ethnic, sectarian and social turmoil became enlightened with liberalism.

Someone will surely point out that if the Ikhwan were so secretive, how come the Europeans ever caught wind of their liberal ideas?

The Ikhwan preached their ideas covertly, so much so that sometimes a member would pretend to belong to the Sunni sect, sometimes to the Shi’a sect, and sometimes to the Ismaili sect. Their intention was not to entirely defy religion, but merely to subtly show it to people that good things exist in all sects, and as such, in all religions. Stubbornly, and wholly following one sect or religion can cause problems for believers of other sects or religions.

Examples of such inter-sectarian friction have never ceased to exit, though they have constantly failed to catch attention of the common muslim, even in this era of information.

Saudi Arabia, a Sunni-fanatic country, has a single Shi’a-majority city, Qateef, which the Kingdom rules with an iron grip, with little or no rights for the Qateefis.

Iran, a Shi’a-fanatic country, has a single Sunni-majority province, Sistan-Baluchistan, which the republic rules with an iron grip, with little or no rights for the Sistanis.

Is it a fault of the Qateefis that they were born in Saudi Arabia? Is it a fault of the Sistanis that they were born in Iran?

The Ikhwan, in 983 AD understood this problem but, alas, we in 2006 cannot.”

The Bavarians Freemasons were the ones who gave protection to the Illuminatis when they were running from the church. I’m not sure, but i think they spoke Yiddish (German written in Hebrew script). Which somehow loosely link them to middle east.

New government confirmed in Pakistan, as US interests remain dominant

http://dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=4688&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

@geog47
“Torture gets embedded in policing…”
whats new in that?
dicatator or no-dictator, torture coupled with castration has always been widely practised …

@geog47
neways im still waiting to hear your alternative solution regarding Dr. A Q Khan…

@dot
Thanks for the link!!! The whole A History of Muslim Philosophy seems worth reading. But this thing is HUGE!!! By the way that link of yours led me to Islamic Philosophy Online site and Al-Islam.org (Shia leaning) which seem like great resources….

@dot

“So what in your opinion should have been done to tackle this proliferation issue?”

We should not get involved in the proliferation of nuclear technology to anybody nor North Korea or any Muslim country. The Yankees and the Russians does it, but they are a different case. They are big powers nobody dares to touch. We are nuclear power too, but with many problems. I could almost say that you name it (the problem) and we have it. In other words we are too vulnerable to sanctions and military attacks too. There are several reasons for us to stay out of proliferation to any country . be it North Korea or a Muslim country.

1. North Korea is tough, but for how long can they keep the flag flying? My assumption is that they will crumble one day sooner or later.
2. The Muslim countries can’t guarantee anything. Most of them (if not all) are collaborators (just like us) and can’t keep a secret. Look at what Libya did to us.
3. We are not strong enough to keep the fort if attacked from several directions. As it is now we can be attacked from the sea, Afghanistan and India simultaneously. Our only secure borders are with Iran and China.
4. We are not strong enough to close the borders. We are too dependent on supplies from the outside world. China did it with success a few decades ago, because they felt threatened by the outside world.

Pakistan did proliferate anyway. There are reasons behind that as we were facing sanctions by the West. The GHQ/state needed hard cash and an easy way to get it was to sell the nuclear technology on the black market. Who did it? Surely the GHQ was the mastermind. It is impossible to send loads of planes without the knowledge of the GHQ - the actual rulers of Pakistan. Mr. Abdul Qadeer Khan was made the scapegoat. I can imagine a scenario where the GHQ could have forced a “confession” out of him. What do you (AQK) want? Do you want to go to Guantanamo or “confess” and stay in our “protection” i.e. house arrest.

/Saqib

Since you guys are talking proliferation, it was zia regime’s unofficial policy to help spread the bomb if we want to retain ours. This policy was adopted after Israel bombed and destroyed Iraq’s nuclear programme in 81′ with the help of US. It was feared in 1984 that same might happen to us with strikes from India with US and Israel help. AQ had nothing to do with it. He is made scapegoat to protect others. It’s not per chance BB mentioned Hamid Gul and Ijaz-ul-Haq in her letter to the president about the people she feared wanted her dead. BB’s crime: her statement that she would let international agencies question AQ.

@fas

Hamid Gul….Are you sure?

/Saqib

DG operations, ISI head, architect of russian defeat, anti america, father of talibans. who could have zia trusted more except his own son.

@fas

“It’s not per chance BB mentioned Hamid Gul and Ijaz-ul-Haq in her letter to the president about the people she feared wanted her dead.”

I did not know this. That is why I asked if you were sure.

“BB’s crime: her statement that she would let international agencies question AQ.”

In my opinion it is an Immature statement from late BB. Why should anybody be allowed to grill a national hero?

/Saqib

Not saying they are bad guys. It was need of the time for safety of our country. I am all out in their favour. BB had a habit of working against interest of our country. Remember the list of sikh rebels. What a missed opportunity to put a permanent check on india, free kashmir and create a buffer zone between the two countries.

But most of all, to avenge Bangladesh.

@fas
__________
BB had a habit of working against interest of our country. Remember the list of sikh rebels
——————-

hahaha, dude would you name the person who had allegedly handed over the list of sikhs rebels

@Saqib
————-
In my opinion it is an Immature statement from late BB. Why should anybody be allowed to grill a national hero?
————–

Because that would have made public the names of the people responsible for proliferation”the holy generals”.

@fas

Owe Bangladesh? I think we got what we deserved. All the atrocities could only lead to what happened. India only did what could be expected of it.

/Saqib

@commoner

Who should have grilled AQK?

The Yankees?

/Saqib

Did she said Yankees?

By denying Dr Qadeer speak truth you are indirectly protecting “the holy generals”

@Commoner

I am asking you. What did she propose?

My immediate reaction is that we should be very cautious about such things. Maybe it should be kept away from public eye. It’s a matter of national safety.

/Saqib

Proliferation falls in the realms of international security, so how can you call it a matter of national safety.

The question posed to BB was hypothetical so she didnot commit to any thing in particular.

@commoner

“Proliferation falls in the realms of international security, so how can you call it a matter of national safety.”

That is a qualified truth. It is not in our national interest to expose any wrong doing. Nuclear technology is a national asset and not he belonging of any bloody general. It is an asset, which gives us a tremendous security in spite of all our short comings. We need to be cooperative with the Yankees on this field.

“The question posed to BB was hypothetical so she didnot commit to any thing in particular.”

No reason to discuss it any more. You will not admit it as a mistake and I will say that hypothetical or not - it was wrong on her part.

/Saqib

when BB came to pakistan, she sent a letter to DR AQ Khan, and apologised for her statement. dr aq khan forgivd her and said that u r like my daughter.

@Saqib
Before you make an allegation you must try to ascertain what actually was the question and its reply.

BB was asked, if I recollect it correctly, what IF International Atomic Energy Agency wants to investigate Dr Qadeer about the international nuclear proliferation issue, what be her response? Now since IAEA has not actually demanded that therefore the question WAS hypothetical. And nobody was infact talking about the Yankees, it was just the figment of imagination of PPP bashers and BB haters who blew it out of proportions, just like the “idhar hum udhar tum”, “Dhaka jane waloon ki tangain tor deen gey”, “handing of the list of sikhs to Indians” allegations.

This is called Media Trial.