Admin,
Appreciate it.
Munir Hussian

kash bhutto jassay azeem leader kee party jo ab awam kee party hy, zardari jassay logon kay hath na charthi

Ibtidaa hi say hai shaayad shehr vaalooN kaa mizaaj
apnay A’alaa Aadmi ko Qatl karnay kaa rivaaj
maarnay kay ba’ad usko daer tak rotay haiN voh
apnay kardah jurm say, aisay rihaa hotay haiN voh.

tuff hai Pakisntanio!

This kind of leaders come once in a generation. And the the gift we return to them is obvious.

He had his problems. However, that is not the point. How many leaders in Pakistan have given the people of Pakistan the wisdom that they are “something” that they can control their own destiny, that they are wise, that all they need to do is work hard day and night. And that they can reach for the stars.

This was Bhutto. And then there is a shameless man, who goes abroad and tells the world that Pakistanis are ignorant (unpar and jahil), they are not ready for democracy. This man takes a charge sheet against Honorable Chief Justice of Pakistan and presents it to his western overlords. He puts the Pakistani nation to shame by all his actions.

May Allah save us from such lowly souls.

I really cringe every time I hear Jahangir Badar speak. He speaks like a friggin Chowkidar/ChapRaasi .

@admin
is this same doc produced by ppp

Jahangir Badar = Wasi Zafar

Hey! That rhymes…

@007,

No idea. I hardly get anytime to watch any video.

Admin

This documentry was directed by Javed Malik ARY ONE WORLD anchor.

Dear admin

Thanks alot.

Politics in Pakistan is initiated by Bhutto.

When will jurnails learn . Bhutto saved them from humiliation.
Shame on Zia and all usurpers including musharaf.
Zia HAS done irrepearable loss to this country

ZINDA HAY BHUTTO

I was a student of Punjab University when Bhutto was hanged. I cannot forget or forgive the dirty role played by Jamaat Islami to crush Movement for Democracy. Goondas of Jamaat used to beat PPP workers along side police and also handover PPP workers to Police after caprturing them. I saw Jamiat students stoping people to save a PPP worker who slf imolated in protest @ Lahori Gate. Jamiat goondas used batons to beat all those who tried to throw water or sand on him. What a shameless supporters of Dictatorship.

@mbokhari,
Jahangir Badar not = Wasi Zafar
Probably you don’t know this man. He belonged to an average family and started his political career as student leader at Punjab University. He braved lashes from a military court and stayed loyal to PPP thru thick and thin. He is well educated person and highly committed to Bhutto’s ideology. An accent of inner Lahore does not make a person Wasi Zafar.

Interesting coincidence:

We have dictators commit violation of article 6 a year or two before a confrontation in Afghanistan. Last time it was Zana mardood. And this time it is moshe.

Last time we know, for sure, the Americans were involved in both luring the russians in for the eventual kill, and also involved in the coup d’etat against Bhutto.

I find it surreal that scumbags like Chishty still walk the earth, but Bhuttos are all dead and gone.

What. in . the hell. is wrong with us as a nation?

Gen Ayub Khan killed Fatima Jinnah
Gen Yayha father of Bangladesh
Gen Zia killed Bhutto
Gen Mush killed BB

Prof Ghaffor still lieing. Every one know that JI took money from US through PL480. People remeber that Masjid were selling US Dollar for half the market rate.

Jamiat Islami which was strong in Karachi at that time was Partner with Gen Zia Juanta.

MQM is (was) Partner with Gen Mush and Junta

JI was and is partner with dictators, shame on JI

TK

After Ayub we had ZAB
After Zia we had Mohtarma
At the end of Musharaf tyranny we have yet again PPP!

So don’t worry as long as there are followers of Iqbal, Jinnah, Bhutto and PPP. The fight will go on. And when there is none then we would have no right to exist as nation.

But yes, I too dun’t understand what.the.hell.is.wrong.with.us.as.nation… coz everytime the nation is trapped by Military and Mullah intrique.

@ JI haters…

do you also blame JI for breaking Pakistan? The creation of Bangladesh was due to Bhutto’s arrogance and stubbornness!

But i do respect him as the father of nuclear program.

This is very painfull i cant even say anything.

@tperacha

The creation of Bangladesh was because of al-badr and al-shams and arrogance of military, so yay thanks to JI for siding with dictators every single time. Go back and read some history before start blaming Bhutto. It was Bhutto who gave a voice to poor.

If anyone was old enough to remember his hanging, can anyone tell me what was the reaction of ordinary people who were not big ppp supporters? Were they pissed with zia or something else?

No one from my family was in Pakistan at that time so they cant really help me.

thanks

I am surprised at the quality of the documentary. It was very well made. Of course, the fact that there was plenty of content probably helped. Anyway, just wondering that after hearing Bhutto’s speech, who would not vote for him? He certainly touched my heart.

Guys
Establishment &
ISI&
Army Generals with people like Chodrys of Gujarat, sucks Pakistn.
Pakistan has no enemy,
Not India, Not Afghanistan, Not America, Our Enemy is from within, ISI and Paki Army. These ISI basters must be hanged to death.They are the real culprits, they created MQM, and they created Taliban and they created sucider squads.
Jamiat Islami are the sons of Army and ISI. Pure sons of Army. I have never seen Munifaqeen like Jamait Islami. Its a jamiat of Kaffirsssssssss.

I don’t believe that Bhutto practically could have orchestrated the creation of Bangladesh in such a short span of time. The real reason was the bloody GHQ. Had they not committed the crimes in Bangladesh then the Bengali’s would not have turned against us.

JI surely had a very disgusting role in the murder of Bhutto and many PPPP followers. My family witnessed a slaughter of almost a whole family including a little baby. JI are nothing else but a bunch of munafiqeen:-(

/Saqib

ZAB was a transformational leader and was gifted with the ability to see things beyond immediate concerns. He was human being with shortcomings but more perfect than many hypocrite religious leaders of his time.

@Saqib

I have read your posts to assume that you support IK and PTI. So my brotherly advice, ask IK to distance himself from Qazi hussain and JI. I reckon after what was done to IK in UET lahore, he already has started distancing himself, but still PTI has clear shodow of JI. He can be more close to PMLN or PPP depending on his idealogy.

JI and JUI has always been and I believe still is the B-team of Pak Military, which are enemy of Pakistan. I remember in my college times, the religious parties inciting Sectarianism and accusing each other as kafirs in previously peaceful towns. Some of them were openly advocating whoever is kafir must be slaughtered on sight. These religious parties not only has divided cities, villages and towns but also Families.

@Fahim23

If you have been reading my posts then you will realise that I am in line with your views. I don’t trust these Mullahs - nor Qazi, Fazool or anybody else. They are just waiting to back stab our heroes at a critical moment. Jamiat did it to IK recently….That was nothing compared to what they did to ZAB. They are criminals! Above all how can trust a party which was against the creation of Pakistan, but yet they invade the land of the sacred. They should have stayed with their Hindu brothers. We don’t need these hypocrites. Maudoodi ensured that a huge number of votes went to the wrong side at the partition….The incidents are countless the culprits the same munafiqeen….Why are these people so greedy?

Yes I am a supporter of PTI/IK for certain issues and not because IK is a celebrity or perfect. I have never been hesitant to show my admire for politicians from other parties as PPPP and PML-N and nor have stayed back to critisize politicians who -in my view- are corrupting our society. My interest is to support issue based principles and not stubbornly support a certain party.

/Saqib

bat ye he ke jin masail se tang aa ker awam army ko bula leti he, polititions ke black kartooton se tang a ker foj ko bulaya jata he , wohi bat dobara se ye siyasatdan ker rahe hen,, jin logon ke die hue wots ki kherat se jholi bhar ker ye log asambles me atte hen, asamblies me aa ker un ko bholl jaate hen or , apni man mani kerte hen. elect hone ke bad to wotron ko salam to door ki bat he, un ke salam ka jawab bi dena gawara nahi kerte.. ppp or pmln dono ko awam pehle hi azma chuki he , in logon ko do do bar hakoomat mili lakin in logon ne KAKH PAN KE DO NAHI KIA, ab in ko azmana hamari awam ki sangeen galti thi. lakin musharrf hakoomat se log isqadar tang aa ge the ke logon ke pas ppp or pmln ke siwa koi or chara nahi tha, imran khan ne to wesse hi boikot ker dia tha, wo election me hissa lete to shayad awam un ko select ker lete, is ki waja ye honi thi ke is waqat pakistan ko us imran khan jessa khra, saf-go, or nadar leader chahye tha. lakin chlo wo to ho nahi saka.. ab logon ne in be-zameer parties ,, i mean, ppp or pmln ko vote kia he, ab wo hakoomat me aa ge hen to hamesha ki tara dobara se awam ke masaye ko bhool ge hen, apni man maniyan kerte phirte hen, pehle in ka muqqaf saf or wazia tha, ab kafi lachak dikhai detti he.. lakin agar in logon ne is bar pehle or hamesha ki tara dagabazi ki, to awam muaf to bilkul hi nahi kren ge , lakin is bar in ki assi tabiyat saf ho gi ke ppp or pmln ka nishan hi mit jae ga..

it is said that, the people of pakistan are very geneous and educated.. though only polititions say that in their debats on tv ect. i know they criticize the people saying them geneous and educated. but i bieng a pakistani disagree with this. according to me, pakistani people are the moste JAHIL and mindless people , even if i say them consiousless, it will be propriate . the reason for that is,, ppp and pmln both had been scrutinized and checked well two times, both were in government two times but none of these stupid leader did anything good. for the third time there was no point to trust on these leaders. like zardari and nawaz shareef.

when people are tired of polititions , they call and wish the army to take over to get them redeem of polititions. but this time, the army and musharraf almost killd the humanity and rights. all rights were reserved just for musharraf and QAAF league. so this time people tried to get redeem of mushraaf but the took sport of these stupid and heatless ppp and pmln. they should not have taken the sport of of these ppp and pmln, because in this case they are free of musharraf somehow, but they given their rights again to a such parties who already spoiled their rights and even now playing with thier feeling as they want.

before the eclecions, leadres came to eveybody,s doar to beg for the vots. when they are selected, now their mods, thier thinkings, promises and way of talk has changed like alwyas, they donot look firm and steady, some of them say, we know what to do, nobody is allowed to teach us about what we have to do and how we have to do, look,, this is thier language and mode after taking power.. if they behaver llike this, so musharrf,s govt was good, even if they used to kill the humanity and peopl evey morning and evening, but on the other end they used to said also,, yes we kill our public, yes attack on jam-e-hifza was a good action, yes dismissal of judges was good action,, what they did, they told the nation , but this ppp and pmln said something else and now are doing other things like always, their nature is the same and will never change,,

finely i want to say that this time the people are able to grab and snatch thier rights from these stupid polititions, if ppp and pmln do andythig against their promises of saying, soon nobody will even know the name of ppp and pmln, maybe some thired power will come true and these lairs will reach at thier real spot of end. muhamma usman spain

@tperacha: JI was (and is) America’s handmaiden. As @econfused mentioned JI and its war criminal thugs supported the army in its heinous crimes against the Bangla Muslims.

JI was the driving force behind the murders and mayhem in the PNA revolt against (he should have been very careful in holding the elections no doubt). Like @Saqib and many other pakistanis I was witness to the after effects of the terror unleashed by the JI murderers.

I have heard stories in which they attacked houses partition-fasad style.. except this time they had chain-saws to cut down people’s wooden doors.. (ever wonder where JI got american made chainsaws ??)

Now JI is against America because America, having used JI and other Islamists like a used condom, is ready to flush them down the toilet of History. Gone are the days when Jam’aat nazims used to sit around in their little “islamic” gatherings and boast about their ‘cleverness’. They used to say we’ll defeat the soviets with the US help and then defeat the US. They introduced and equated Islam with being a tool of the foreign powers.

Now these USED COND*OMS want dignity and respect. After all the murder and mayhem they unleashed upon their Muslim brothers in the service of America. Ignorance is not a defence in this world, and it sure as sh!t ain’t a defence in the next one.

i leave Pakistan party if zardari bring MQM in Fedral …MQM is terrorist party i hate Altaf . he is a criminal

Found an interesting link on Razakars (they don’t think too highly of Bhutto either) :

” The Razakars…..should be specially helpful as members of rural communities, who can identify guerrillas (freedom fighters)”, an army officer (Pakistan) said…The government says it has already recruited more than 22,000 Razakars of a planned force of 35,000.’-New York Times, July 30, 1971

‘ To help control of Bengali population, the army has been setting up a network of peace committees superimposed upon the normal civil administration, which the army cannot fully rely upon. Peace committee members are drawn from …..Beharis and from the Muslim Leagues and Jamat-e-Islami. The peace committees serve as the agent of army, informing on civil administration as well as on general populace. They are also in charge of confiscating and redistribution of shops and lands from Hindu and pro-independence Bengalis. The peace committee also recruits Razakars……many of them are common criminals who have thrown their lots with the (Pakistan) army.-The Wall Street Jornal, July 27,1971.

I think, perhaps you remember, Fazlul Kader Chowdhiury …an honorable person, Sabur Khan, Monayem Khan, Maulabhi Farid Khan of Technaf…. all of them were pro-’Pakistan. They used to see me. All of them”. - Niazi “The Betrayal of East Pakistan”

its good that Bangladesh became a new country, even there is bhutto’s roll in in or not. Its not a logical part of Pakistan. If i was prime minister i would grant this poor land to India or Srilanka.
Insensible partition.

The most powerful slogan of defiance in the historical stuggle between Establishment and Awam, for the supremacy in the affairs of politics and governance in Pakistan, remains:

ZINDA hai BHUTTO ZINDA hai

Lets not worship personalities/cult figures, the slogan should be forever

ZINDA HAI QAUM UB ZINDA HAI

It is because of the qaum that PPP won. Now they (Zardari) better not do anything to jeopardize their victory because

ZINDA HAI QAUM UB ZINDA HAI!

AND THIS QAUM IS READY TO TEACH ANY BETRAYING POLITICIAN A LESSON.

No doubt hes an undisputed leader. During his time (bfr or after he was hanged) he started a new era of politics… the ideological and liberal rule no matter how authoritarian it was, it was certainly a giant leap. I dont know if many readers know this but according to some analysts he had wanted to propose the Gwadar project to be handled by the Americans and that was in 70s. Definately a vision there!

I can’t understand this mentality that ordinary Pakistani is just idiot – I am pointing this because of the comments some of the people made that Jahangir Badar speaks like Chowkidar/ChapRassi. This type of people should learn how to respect human being without there social status. Anyway! Allah give them this wisdom.

No doubt with all his weaknesses still Z A Bhutto was larger than life political leader of Pakistan and his contribution is great. That is the reason his enemy Gen. Zia considered the wirst evil of all time of Pakistan history.

Thanks Admin for uploading the video.

I have always considered Nawaz sharif’s decision to go to Saudia wrong but Now after listening to the story of humilation suffered by Bhutto from Army, I feel Nawaz did the right thing. What kind of country are we where public office bearers suffer humilating treatment from government employees. On 10th september when commandos demported former PM Nawaz shariff, Rauf Klastra reported that they were laughing at helplessness of Nawaz. A more severe thing is reported in video. I wonder how an army officer abuse a popular leader like Bhutto. Shamefull act. I hope some day we do same with dictators too.

Musharaf must suffer same humilation in Jail.

history sub say bari judge hain!aur aaj dekh loo poori qaum keh rahi hain kay bhuttho kyee death judical murder tha!i know bhuttho main buhat sari kharabian thyee but he was best leader of muslim community,he was best foriegn affair manager of pakistan foriegn relations with world.
zinda hain bhuttho zinda hain.
jub ghar ghar say bhuttho nikay ga
tum kitnay bhuttho maroo gay

zardari,,,,

zardari ko pp peoples party mili thi JAHAIZ men. or wo is party ke sath wohi salook ker raha he jo aik NALAIQ shohar jahaiz ke sath kerta he.. muje un jahil logon pe afsos hota he jin ko pata tha ke benazir bhutto ke bad waqti tor per koi bi ppp ko deal kerne wala mojood nahi he lakin phir bi jahil or be-zameer logon ne ppp ko vote dia ,, aj wo iqtadar me aa chuke hen or awam ke sath wohi salooq ker rahe hen or kerne wale hen jis tara ka wo pehle kerte aye hen,,, jahil log is lie kaha he ke do dafa ppp or pmln ko azam ker teesri bar bi uni logon se apni taqdeer ka faisla kerwa lia he , jin logon ne pehle hi apni apni bari aane pe mulak or awam ko loota,,,,,,,,,,, wesse hamari awam bi aissi hi jahil or dheet he ke in ko aqle nahi he or in ko aise hi deel kia jata raha or or aise hi deel kia jae ga or kia jaa raha he.. in ke bare agar ye kaha jae to bura na ho ga ke,, LATON KE BHOOT BATON SE NAHI MANTE, ab in logon ko musharf hi marta rahe to theek rehte hen, kiyun ppp ko vote dia or aaj ro rahe hen ,,,,,,,,,,,, usman khan.0034-634101023

after the benazir bhotto,s government murder,, there was no point to vote ppp, because all know that there is no more layel , sympathetic and true leader in ppp. all are taking advantage of benazir bhotto,s name and party. but our nation again choosed the same people who had already destroyed them in all fields of life , and two time ppp and pmln did the same. now people will see that zardari and his companion will eat pakistan and our stupid , idiot, consiousless nation will weep and call the army again to get redeem from this ppp and polititions. our nation closed the eyes about the charecter of ppp and pmln, and now thier eyes are going to open,,, allwill see soon and even the some signs are appearing now,,,,,,,,,, see what happens more ,,,, usman khan .0034-634101023

it doesnt matter what people say on bloggs, TV shows, Drawing rooms, or web site PPP is still the Largest political party of Pakistan under the leadership of Mr Zardari.

and people has Votes this Party under the Leadership of Mr Zardari.

its the poor people of Pakistan who Vote for PPP.
and PPP stood with them

Its the only party who never supported any military Dictator.

Its a Party whose Leaders and Workers has laid their Lives for the Ideology they believe in {you can differ with that Ideology but you cannot deny that they didn’t sacrifices their Lives} but ran away to Saudi with an agreement.

This is party who only Believes that its the people of Pakistan who are sovereign .

its was you people wgo said

1-PPP is finished as BB did ‘deal with musharraf’
2-PPP is finished as its didn’t had clear point of view about reinstatement of Judges
3-PPP is finished as its didn’t boycotted the election
4-PPP will never Make Govt with PMLn
5-PPP will be divided into sections when its will announce its Pm candidate
6-people will never accept Zardari as the Leader of PPP
7-PPP has lost the public supports as its use to have in 1980s.

PPP has prove you wrong on all above and its will prove you wrong again as well.

all the establishment and their collaborators tried their level best to Kill Bhutto’s , to destroy their Image, and destroy their political stature in Pakistan and specially in Sindh.

But even then they have to face the slogans like
ZINDA HAI BHUTTO ZINDA HAI
ZINDA HAI BB ZINDA HAI

in Sindh assembly, in national Assembly and in Awan -e- sadder.

this is the verdict of the history my Friend.

You need to understand PPP is not Just a Political Party its a tradition of Sacrifices for this motherland and poor people of Pakistan know this, acknowledge this and support this.

@Awais

ok jayala we got your emotions

By the Way we don’t need Peers in our politics we need leaders.

and my advice to you , be a worker of a party, not Mureeed of a party.

@ Awais

yes, PPP is the single largest party in 2008 elections BUT have u noticed one interesting FACT, PPP could NEVER be a MAJORITY (with more than 50% votes) party in all of general elections , not in 1970 even (88 out of total about 330 seats), not even in 1988 and 1993 when they were able to form government.

@ usman Khan

Mr Khan, I agree with your comments about politicians, and how both major parties have added to the mess. But he analysis must nt stop here.

Remember that these ‘leaders’ are the product of same country … they were bribed, manipulated , harrassed , tortured and sometimes murdered by the ‘Establishment’ . Blame both at the least .
Secondly please dont call the people supid and idiot. Not only that it is generalization at massive scale but also you begin to sound much like Musharraf (who also considered our people ‘Jaahil’ … look what Same jaahil people did to his party. Give them atleast that much credit ……….

Lack of visionary and honest political leadership is our biggerproblem .. not people.

A LOUD PAKISTAN ZINDABAD from Indiana, USA!!!!

@ GM sahab

Majority doesnt mean more than 50%

majority Mean more than the opposing parties.

and PPP got that in all elections except those rigged.

did anyone else in the history of Pakistan or India or UK got more than 50% votes?

I can quote you Examples of Indian National Congress , BJP, Labour party or Tories.

Fact of the Matter is PPP has been the Single Largest Political Party of Pakistan in Almost all elections with a vote Bank of atlesst 30-45% of popular vote.

@Awais

“@ GM sahab

Majority doesnt mean more than 50%

majority Mean more than the opposing parties.

and PPP got that in all elections except those rigged.

did anyone else in the history of Pakistan or India or UK got more than 50% votes? ”

technically majority means more then 50% percent.

plurality means largest share of something

you can check with some one wiser if you like

we cant expect anything good from a bunch of feudals, dacoits and fake peers gathered in the form of ppp…

they are time tested failed people who looted that country ´without any mercy and transferred that money to foriegn accounts

ppp marketed benezir murder in a good way and got sympathy vote by emotionally blackmailing people..i am sure that its last time people have been blackmailed by ppp…

no one need to do anything..zardari, ahmed mukhtar, farooq naik, rehman malik etc. will soon expose themselves and in this era of free media ..corruption and bad governece cannot be hidden for long time..its not the pakistan of 70s or 80s…people have challenged a mighty military dictator the shameless mush and as ppp is continuing his policies and is bowing in the majesty of their master US..i can predict ppp s future will be same as that of q league and mush.. unless they bring one more “azeem shaheed”

anyone who will go against desires of people and will work on foriegn agenda and looting of money will become part of history..its 2008 not 1972

In 1970, the PPP attracted 42 per cent of the votes polled in Punjab. A total of eight elections — spread over a thirty-seven year time span — PPP’s vote bank in Punjab has been shrinking. In 1988, the PPP got 40 per cent of the Punjab vote, 39 per cent in 1990 and 1993, 22 per cent in 1997, 27 per cent in 2002 and 29 per cent in 2008.

In 1970, the PML attracted a mere 23 per cent of the votes polled in Punjab. In 1988, the PML got 38 per cent of the Punjab vote, 49 per cent in 1990, 45 per cent in 1993, 59 per cent in 1997 and 52 per cent in 2002. In 2008, the combined PML-N-PML-Q vote stood at 69 per cent.

According to a 2008 exit poll by Gallup Pakistan, 43 per cent of the PPP voters are “illiterate” while only 26 per cent of the PML voters are “illiterate”. Furthermore, a mere 5 per cent of the PPP voters are “college-educated” while the PML’s “college-educated” voters are twice that many

@

engineer

good figures

@engineer

Go and have party on your statistics until next elections ;)!

And in next elections, if you are again forced to party, then also take the statistics of Pakistan not just punjab and also compere it with other parties.

No Majority doesn’t mean more than 50%.
Majority is a relative term.

as i quoted examples if more than two parties are in elections the Party which claims more votes than others claims majority over others.

@Awais

its just an issue of its technical definition

For example, if a party is able to win 172 seats out of 342 seats, then it would be declared as Majority party, and if it has less than 172 but it has more seats than any other party, then it will be the Single Largest party yet not a majority party.

As far election results are concerned, term of being a ”Majority Party” is NOT a relative term.

@ sleepingnation

1-Its was PPP who brought more than 90,000 of your POWs from clutched on India

2-It was PPP who Brought hundred of Miles of Land to you country which you people has lost in a war.

3-Its was PPP who gave you Nukes which you are Proud of.

4-Its was PPP who gave your missile Programme

5-Its was PPP govt which gave you First ever Internet Connections to Your country which your using today

6-Its was PPP who gave you First ever Mobile Phone connections in your counrty

7-Its was PPP who gave you First ever semi Independent TV channel in Pakistan in 1988-89 when there was not a single semi-Private TV channel in whole of India.

8-Its was PPP Govt who gave 3500-4500 Megawatt electricity in 3 Years Govt 1993-1996 which you people where using till last few Years.

9-Its was PPP who Gave first ever Jobs exclusive for Women {more than 10,000 posts for Lady Health Visitors.

10-Its was PPP govt who gave you 1973 constitution {the only consensus documents in Pakistan}

The list go on and on.

but you will not be able to see because you don’t have ability to see.

@Awais

majority is not a relative term, when you just use majority it stands for simple majority which is more then half

plurality or relative majority is the term use for largest share of something

please do little bit search on the term.

and just a little statistics

According to a 2008 exit poll by Gallup Pakistan, 43 per cent of the PPP voters are “illiterate” while only 26 per cent of the PML voters are “illiterate”. Furthermore, a mere 5 per cent of the PPP voters are “college-educated” while the PML’s “college-educated” voters are twice that many

engineer

this “illitrate” term is doesn’t mean anythings.

illiterate means some one who cannot read and write but its doest mean he cannot think rationally.

Literate mean some one who can Read and write but its doesn’t mean that he can think Rationally as well.

its was these ‘illiterate’ people who supported Pakistan Movement and make Jinnah as their Leader.

while most of the Literate Muslims were supporting Indian National Congress.

in todays world Most Illiterates are Muslims {in incomparable with Christianity and Judaism} doesn’t that mean some things. Na

PPP has beat PMLq PMLn PMLf other {when they were IJI} in 1988.

thats Fact

@Awais

“this “illitrate” term is doesn’t mean anythings”

I think at the very least literate ppl can open the dictionary and look up the definition of majority

and yeah most of the literate ppl are not mureed of a political party

engineer

I have no trouble with all ‘illetrate’ being Voters of PPP.

does it mean anything.
answer is no.

illiterate doesn’t means stupid ignorant and literate doesn’t mean sensible or clever.

ibleees was the most literate of all the angles
does it mean he was right.

ilm is not everything.

engineer
see this
Definition
majority (NUMBER)
1-”the larger number or part of something”
2 [C] in an election, the difference in the number of votes between the winning person or group and the one that comes second:

reference Cambridge online Dictionary

and now you will call yourself Literate as well.

@Awais

oh Jayalaay, I have been to bhuttoo mazar on his death anniversary day and i have seen pretty disturbing things here so don’t give me a crap about illiterate and literate

PPP voter is illiterate and they could be easily manipulated by hollow slogans

engineer

as i said it doesn’t mean anything even if all the “Illiterate” people Vote PPP>

all these “illiterates” Believe in Prophet Muhammad {PBUH and his Progeny} as well.

these ‘illiterates’ has supported Pakistan Movements

these ‘Illiterates’ has never supported any army General.

so as i said it doesn’t matter

These ‘Illiterates’ cannot read and write but i must tell you they know very well whats good for the country.

Its was these ‘illitrates’ who elected a women as their PM, while You ‘Literates’ were discussing that ‘is it allowed in Islam for a women to become a head of State’

@Awais
“These ‘Illiterates’ cannot read and write but i must tell you they know very well whats good for the country.

Its was these ‘illitrates’ who elected a women as their PM, while You ‘Literates’ were discussing that ‘is it allowed in Islam for a women to become a head of State’”

gender is not an issue for illiterate ppl, blood line is the issue for example Bilawal is the co-chairman of the PPP. could you give some of his qualification for this post other then that he is the son of the BB.

Keep them “illiterate” so they can’t question your “gaddi-nasheeni”.

Keep the people “illiterate” both deeni & duniyaavi so that they won’t question the “gaddis” of both Mullahs & these damned Politicians.

Education is on the lowest of their agendas coz its a direct “threat” to their gaddi.

engineer

The Qualification of Mr Bilawal Zardari is that he has been made Chairman of PPP by the Central exective commettee and fedral council of PPP with out a single vote against him.

this is democracy not the dictatorship.

and people support him that why.

Bloods line doest matter for these ‘Illiterates’ other wise Ghanwa Bhutto , mir Muratza Bhutto and mumtaz Bhutto would have win their seats against the divisional Head of PPP>>>>

Asif

you need to understand education is not a prerequisite for democracy.

The largest democracy in the world has a literacy rate 61% while Pakistan had 49.9%

I am talking of naam-nihaad concept of “gaddi-nasheeni” not the democracy in my previous post.

You need to understand there is nothing wrong with ‘Gaddi Nasheeni’. Whats wrong is to have a wrong person on Gaddi.

I hope you Understand.

When Benazir started Leading PPP and was made Gaddi nasheen.

every one said.

oh this is not a property , she doesn’t deserve this posts, whats is her qualification so on and so forth

But now history has proved all those people wrong
she was better than all those available at that time.

@Awais

and i thought we are talking about a democratic system.

engineer

Yes that what we are talking about people have a choice to make anyone their Leader.

If people want Bilawal to Lead this country its their choice.
If they reject Bilawel they also had that choice as well.

same hold true PPP has a choice and a right to elect their leader and they did that.

So you don’t need to understand the biggest evil in our society, Fazlu, bilawal from zardari to bhutto, kids & inlaws of sharifs, same goes with chaudheries & the list goes on.

Gaddi is not a bad thing, so you are of the view that gaddi itself is a valid peice of our lives. Dude I respectfuly totaly against the concept of Gaddi, whether its being passed on to a good son/daughter or the bad one. Let them grow in society if they are capable enough they will be greeted by the people, why they fear?

Asif

you need to understand that all these Gaddi Nasheed come for a Public test every 5Years atlesat.

If people Like that person to be on Gaddi then who are we to say that he/she shouldnt be on Gaddi Nasheen.

I think its peoples right to make someone sit on Gaddi or kick him out.

I think all parties need to be internally democratic. Then we won’t have these debates as to whether or not an “ascension” was kosher or not.

This is not an excuse for PPP, this is a serious shortcoming of ALL of Pakistani political parties.. this is the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about.. the Achilles’ heel that bites every party in the nutsack every few years because our enemies know that our party leaders are too insecure to have real democracy within their ranks and are too stupid to realize that they risk the whole thing by not having a proper succession and grooming policy (and no I don’t mean grooming your kid. — grooming people based on work and merit)

I really hope PTI starts doing this, IT is sad that only fascist parties have this internal democracy and it shows, they are able to weild a lot more power simply because they cannot be put into crises by a simple assasination while all other parites are hostage to a potential assassination.

Look

internal Party Democracy will come AFTER there will be democracy in the country.

its imposable to have a internal Party democracy with out have a democracy in the country.

They go to the same people every five to whom they have kept illiterate both deeni & duniyaavi, so they won’t question their “gaddi”.

We came back to the Education, which is a direct threat to these gaddi-holders.

Asif

But i don’t agree that these ‘Illiterates’ don’t have a Capacity to Judge them.
They are as competent as the so-called ‘Literates’.

you need to understand that illiterate doesn’t mean Ignorant.

if you think that a Literate Voter is better than Illiterate then i severely disagree with you.

If one does not know what does say Quran & the only he knows it is thru “Mullah”. This illiterate person can be something better than ignorant? I left it upto you to decide about his capacity of deeni Judement.

And the same goes with political judgement When a mazara only knows what his wadaira says how can he be even aware of his basi rights. I left it upto you to decide about his capacity of dunyaavi Judement.

asif.

even if you read that doesnt mean that you can interpret it as well.

follow an interpretation you will have to follow a Master {call it imam, Mullah, pir, Scholar, ect}

Ilm is good
but a person who has ilm is not necessarily mean superior to some one who dont have ilm.

Education is a powerful tool that enables one to “think” & thats where Gaddi-holders both political & religous face the threat. They don’t wanna their mureeds to enable them with such a tool that can put their guddi in danger.

even the people you call illiterates have a the capacity to differentiate whats right and whats wrong.

in order to differentiate between right and wrong you don’t need to be literate these are basic Human Values.

differentiating between Good and evil is not what you can ONLY get if you are Literate.

Asif

in order to ‘think’ you dont need to be Literate.

how many of the Sahaba were Literate [according to those days standards}??

I am talking about the concept of “gaddi” & I am very much clear that gaddi demands his mureeds not to even look anything other than their deeni or dunyaavi murshid.

I am not against the need of a teacher but to make a teacher the son/daughter of the teacher just because his/her father was a very good teacher. You are mixing the original teacher with the one who’s eligibility is gaddi.

Asif

O you fail to understand the whole Point

do you think Fazal ur Rehman in the Head of JUI just Because he is the son of Mufti mehmood.??

do you think Benazir was PPP leader Just Beacuse she Bhuttos Daughter?

is you think that , then your are wrong

both of them in their own Capacity had a right to lead their Parties.

@Asif
my question to you is can you teach somebody common sense? answer me when you are done with your experiment with Awais

“Iqra” the first word that was revealed to Hazrat Muhammad(PBUH). Our mother tongue is not arabic so we don’t what does it mean although we recite it daily. Only gaddi-nasheen tells us how to live like a muslim what he feels. Education matters or not I left it upto you.

About Sahaba they were directly being addressed by Hazrat Muhammad(PBUH) after every revelation. And that was the knowledge transfered to them. They have the honor being the students of Hazrat Muhammad(PBUH) that they don’t have read by themselves The Quran.

@Awais: I’m not trying to have a pi$$ing match with you, so take a DEEP BREATH and relax!

I do have a question about your last statement. What exactly is stopping the parties from being internally democratic? aside from greed and the medieval attitudes that our “leaders” tend to harbor? Don’t tell me our parties are facing bigger opposition from our agencies than Hamas, IRA/Sinn Fein, ANC, Indian Congress Party (pre partition) etc face from their respective foes from the secret services.

All of those parties maintained internal democratic structures despite having to deal with secret services, agencies, assassinations and other repressive measures much worse than what our Military/Agencies dish out for our boys/gals.

actually it makes even more sense if you are involved in an actual ideological struggle against unscrupulous enemies who could kill your leaders any time. When you want to backstab your voters and do a deal with the ‘powers that be’ then you want to hang on to the power internally by undemocratic means. And in our feudal context it is shamefully obvious. Just look at all the “young faces” gracing the new parliament; they are usually blood relatives of the older names in politics..

no wonder we are spinning our wheels.. and the revolution cooks (and NO, PPP won’t bring any revolutions anytime soon. But thanks for playing.)

Just a hypothetical: What will PPP do if Zardari and Bilawal are in plane and the damn thing crashes in the ocean (no agencies. no nothing .. just pure accident?)

Can you imagine it surviing as a party? I don’t think so because it has been built as a cult of successive personalities. Same goes for other parties to lesser or greater extent. Will PTI survive if IK kicks the bucket while on tour of England? Will PML-N survive the sudden demise of sharif brothers? I don’t know. IMO NO!.

But let me tell you something, JI will survive Qazi’s death. And MQM will quite possibly survive AH’s accidental death (nothing to do with the big bad agencies again.. purely accidental scenario).

OK, MQM case is a little bit more complicated, because that has also become a cult of personality and that is not good for them either. But their organization will force new leadership to emerge because all these interests are at stake (It’s a meritocracy in a sick disgusting way)

The objective right now is not to have pi$$ing matches of the “my party can beat up your party” kind. But to work towards a democratic culture in all parties. To say that we’ll have democracy internally AFTER we have it externally is dishonest and a cop-out to say the least. The parties are supposed to be the institutions that develop their members as responsible democratic members of society who believe in democracy AS A SYSTEM (not as a Slogan) of making decisions.

The lawyers movement has had phenomenal success (despite all the poo-poohing they’re recieving right now) precisely because they are internally democratic and they have done an excellent job of educating the masses about really basic concepts.

If you think you can have democracy magically appear in your country while you run your parties like autocratic little fiefdoms run by hereditary despots, you got another think coming.

engineer

Im still waiting for you reply regarding Majority

I hope you have read the definition of Majority on Cambridge online dictionery

and now you must concede you point of you call yourself ‘Literate’

What exactly is stopping the parties from being internally democratic?

internal democracy Cannot function with out external democracy.
thats what our stated opinion.

TK
your second questions reply!
@@@Just a hypothetical: What will PPP do if Zardari and Bilawal are in plane and the damn thing crashes in the ocean (no agencies. no nothing .. just pure accident?)@@@

they will elect an other leader the same way theorught consensus of CEC and fedral council.

@Awais
@TK

TK, dude, you seem to be an intelligent person, could you help us with the definition of majority? to get the context please read the discussion btw me and Awais above on that.

engineer

Yaar stop kidding please. Often our seniors quote that common sense is the most un-common thing in the world, whenever we say sir its common sense its that simple So we don’t need to worry & supervise XYZ.

Reason and good sense notwithstanding it would appear.

TK

@@The lawyers movement has had phenomenal success (despite all the poo-poohing they’re recieving right now) precisely because they are internally democratic and they have done an excellent job of educating the masses about really basic concepts@@@@

what is that phenomenal success??
and how are they internally democratic??

are they not being a ‘cult of personality’?