Comments on: Judges to be Restored http://pkpolitics.com/2008/04/15/judges-to-be-restored/ Fri, 10 Feb 2012 01:56:09 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: zia m http://pkpolitics.com/2008/04/15/judges-to-be-restored/#comment-73308 zia m Thu, 17 Apr 2008 21:25:46 +0000 http://pkpolitics.com/2008/04/15/judges-to-be-restored/#comment-73308 :) 14 DAYS to go ..............and counting :) 14 DAYS to go …………..and counting

]]> By: nota http://pkpolitics.com/2008/04/15/judges-to-be-restored/#comment-73027 nota Thu, 17 Apr 2008 03:17:26 +0000 http://pkpolitics.com/2008/04/15/judges-to-be-restored/#comment-73027 @saqibtahir Regarding restoration you say 'So why should they bother?" Please DON'T!. Let's see if PPP leadership has the b@lls to stick to their beliefs. Later you add: "Pakistani nation is not sleeping. They have given their verdict against Mush as well as APDM and its lawyer’s boycott call." Do you seriously believe that? Like I said I challenge you jiyalas to stick to that and we will see what follows. @Pejamistri Keeping that ZAB and "Islam is our religion" example in mind, also remember where did it lead ZAB to... Everyone knew ZAB and "Islam is our religion" coming from him was seen for what it was. PPP might restore judges now but any gains they might have had from the act has certainly been lost -- jiyalas excepted of course. @saqibtahir
Regarding restoration you say ‘So why should they bother?” Please DON’T!. Let’s see if PPP leadership has the b@lls to stick to their beliefs.

Later you add: “Pakistani nation is not sleeping. They have given their verdict against Mush as well as APDM and its lawyer’s boycott call.”

Do you seriously believe that? Like I said I challenge you jiyalas to stick to that and we will see what follows.

@Pejamistri
Keeping that ZAB and “Islam is our religion” example in mind, also remember where did it lead ZAB to… Everyone knew ZAB and “Islam is our religion” coming from him was seen for what it was. PPP might restore judges now but any gains they might have had from the act has certainly been lost — jiyalas excepted of course.

]]> By: saqibtahir http://pkpolitics.com/2008/04/15/judges-to-be-restored/#comment-73022 saqibtahir Thu, 17 Apr 2008 02:50:02 +0000 http://pkpolitics.com/2008/04/15/judges-to-be-restored/#comment-73022 @straightarrow, Removalof 58-2B cannot be done without 2/3 majority in senate. YRG is talking about Mush's impeachment almost every day by saying 'this matter will be dealt by parliament'. I hope this issue is on cards of YRG government. Cannot you see the face of Mush in front of YRG in pictures. They hardly talk to each other. @straightarrow,
Removalof 58-2B cannot be done without 2/3 majority in senate. YRG is talking about Mush’s impeachment almost every day by saying ‘this matter will be dealt by parliament’. I hope this issue is on cards of YRG government. Cannot you see the face of Mush in front of YRG in pictures. They hardly talk to each other.

]]> By: saqibtahir http://pkpolitics.com/2008/04/15/judges-to-be-restored/#comment-73018 saqibtahir Thu, 17 Apr 2008 02:36:45 +0000 http://pkpolitics.com/2008/04/15/judges-to-be-restored/#comment-73018 @sleepingnation Probably you ae sleeping in ssome nook in a cozy bedroom with no wwindows. Pakistani nation is not sleeping. They have given their verdict against Mush as well as APDM and its lawyer's boycott call. Also probably you have not yet heard that Zardri's party has been elected to power by this nation through PURCHI. @sleepingnation
Probably you ae sleeping in ssome nook in a cozy bedroom with no wwindows. Pakistani nation is not sleeping. They have given their verdict against Mush as well as APDM and its lawyer’s boycott call. Also probably you have not yet heard that Zardri’s party has been elected to power by this nation through PURCHI.

]]> By: saqibtahir http://pkpolitics.com/2008/04/15/judges-to-be-restored/#comment-73014 saqibtahir Thu, 17 Apr 2008 02:25:54 +0000 http://pkpolitics.com/2008/04/15/judges-to-be-restored/#comment-73014 @Amir Hameed, PPP is vy clear about judiaciary issue. They have obligations as per Charter of Democracy and Muree declaration. PPP is not elected by people on judiaciary issue. PPP has no moral, legal or political obligation to restore judges based on the election mandate. So they should not be blamed even if they refuse to restore judges. They have reasons to dump these judges: 1) CJ and his lawyers have screwed thir case themselves fter their first success in July. They deepened the crisis after picking fight after fight with Mush. 2) C J and his lawyers never took PPP or NS in confidence and didn't keep PPP of NS's interest in mind. So why should they bother? 3) These judges are part and parcel of Mush regime and part of all the crimes commited against constitution and political leadership. 4) Did these judges bother when Zardari, YRG, NS, SS, JH and thousands more political workers were languishing in jails. Did they give any relief to a single anti-Mush politician? So if judges are bruised in the internal fight with their bed fellow generals, why they want their own convicted Hijacker (NS), traitor (JH), nepotist (YRG) and never convicted Zardari to bail them out? Do they think AZ and NS are cleners of their mess? PPP is more interested in cleaning the consitutional mess created by corrupt unholy alliance of Judges and Generals. They both consider them the holy cows. Restoring them without restoring the original constitution is not going to do any good except seeing another Prime Minister being convicted as hijacker or murderer. PPP, NS and ANp are committed to Muree declaration and trust each other. There is no need to cast doubts on their intentions. The issue is not as simple. There are many variables, legal issues, and pressures that have to be dealt with. End of the day some compromise solution will emerge. We must wait for the collective wisdom of the parliament and give them their time. In the end I would say that NAZRIYA-E-ZAROORAT is not proprietry to Judges and Generals. Parliament (that is supreme in theory) has its own needs and obligations to their electorate. @Amir Hameed,
PPP is vy clear about judiaciary issue. They have obligations as per Charter of Democracy and Muree declaration. PPP is not elected by people on judiaciary issue. PPP has no moral, legal or political obligation to restore judges based on the election mandate. So they should not be blamed even if they refuse to restore judges. They have reasons to dump these judges:
1) CJ and his lawyers have screwed thir case themselves fter their first success in July. They deepened the crisis after picking fight after fight with Mush.
2) C J and his lawyers never took PPP or NS in confidence and didn’t keep PPP of NS’s interest in mind. So why should they bother?
3) These judges are part and parcel of Mush regime and part of all the crimes commited against constitution and political leadership.
4) Did these judges bother when Zardari, YRG, NS, SS, JH and thousands more political workers were languishing in jails. Did they give any relief to a single anti-Mush politician?

So if judges are bruised in the internal fight with their bed fellow generals, why they want their own convicted Hijacker (NS), traitor (JH), nepotist (YRG) and never convicted Zardari to bail them out? Do they think AZ and NS are cleners of their mess?

PPP is more interested in cleaning the consitutional mess created by corrupt unholy alliance of Judges and Generals. They both consider them the holy cows. Restoring them without restoring the original constitution is not going to do any good except seeing another Prime Minister being convicted as hijacker or murderer.

PPP, NS and ANp are committed to Muree declaration and trust each other. There is no need to cast doubts on their intentions. The issue is not as simple. There are many variables, legal issues, and pressures that have to be dealt with. End of the day some compromise solution will emerge. We must wait for the collective wisdom of the parliament and give them their time.

In the end I would say that NAZRIYA-E-ZAROORAT is not proprietry to Judges and Generals. Parliament (that is supreme in theory) has its own needs and obligations to their electorate.

]]> By: straightarrow http://pkpolitics.com/2008/04/15/judges-to-be-restored/#comment-72983 straightarrow Thu, 17 Apr 2008 00:06:48 +0000 http://pkpolitics.com/2008/04/15/judges-to-be-restored/#comment-72983 With the threat of Article 58(2)(b) hanging over this parliament, I simply cannot understand why a resolution has not been moved in parliament to date to (a) suspend this article effective immediately, thus taking out Musharraf's ability to dismiss this parliament and (b) to set a time frame to repeal this article altogether. I wish one of our famous journalists - Talat Husain or Mr Mir or Messrs Javed & Minhas or whoever would do a programme on this right away and get the political parties - both for and against - to explain the reason for this delay. With the threat of Article 58(2)(b) hanging over this parliament, I simply cannot understand why a resolution has not been moved in parliament to date to (a) suspend this article effective immediately, thus taking out Musharraf’s ability to dismiss this parliament and (b) to set a time frame to repeal this article altogether. I wish one of our famous journalists – Talat Husain or Mr Mir or Messrs Javed & Minhas or whoever would do a programme on this right away and get the political parties – both for and against – to explain the reason for this delay.

]]> By: Munir http://pkpolitics.com/2008/04/15/judges-to-be-restored/#comment-72977 Munir Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:42:57 +0000 http://pkpolitics.com/2008/04/15/judges-to-be-restored/#comment-72977 @pejamistri I agree with you. @pejamistri
I agree with you.

]]> By: pejamistri http://pkpolitics.com/2008/04/15/judges-to-be-restored/#comment-72915 pejamistri Wed, 16 Apr 2008 20:12:28 +0000 http://pkpolitics.com/2008/04/15/judges-to-be-restored/#comment-72915 @Amir Hameed Agreed Zia never had the balls to hang ZAB, just like Musharraf did not have the balls to hang Nawaz Sharif , it was just that ZAB was more at the wrong end of the world than Nawaz Sharif. As for the return of BB, please don't give the complete credit to US for this. For whole 8 years the elephant kept supporting whole heartedly the mad dictator , they could have kept him supporting for another 8 years just like they kept supporting Zia until he died even though BB's return on 10th April 1986 was similar to 18th October 2008. Benazir did a lot of work to get the support of right quarters for whole 8 years , she matured as a politician during her exile along with Nawaz Sharif , certain steps proved the maturity of both politicians which included: 1. Charter of Democracy. 2. Nawaz Sharif and Benazir kept their communication channel opened even after disagreement in the APC. 3. Nawaz Sharif's agreement to contest the elections even after announcing the bycott. All of the above along with the unprecedented movement of the lawyers shaped the whole situation in Pakistan, personally I never buy the argument of US think tanks coming up with any novel ideas like this. Specially I think Bush and his team along with their think-tanks are incapable of such things :) Finally for NRO you would be little surprised to hear my opinion :) , I believe that in Pakistan parliament should make a law in which politicians (those who are now in government i.e PPP ANP PML(N)) are declared as sacred cows just like there are laws for Army and Judiciary. No authority in Pakistan should be able to do any accountablity of them only a parliamentary committee should look into their financial scams :). Off course this law should be for few years perhaps 10 or so. So in a way I support NRO , but I do not support all of the clauses of NRO specially those which do not apply to politicians , BTW do you know one of the biggest beneficiary of the NRO is no other than Mansoor-ul-Haq and his associates who did the biggest scam of the Pakistan before the 1999 , after that however there had been much bigger scams. @nota I agree you should be suspecious of PPP , I am sure you can not help that. However do pray that PPP come up to the expectations just like I am praying. Let me give you some more consolation , ZAB was not a practising muslim (I believe) , and he was not in favor of using religion for any political gains , however when it came to accepting the people sentiments he used "Islam is our religion" and then banned alcohol. So although he perhaps did not agree with these things he did them. Similarly I hope Asif Zardari and some other big leaders of the PPP may not be in favor of restoring CJ and some other judges in the end they may have to due to the public pressure/sentiments. @Amir Hameed
Agreed Zia never had the balls to hang ZAB, just like Musharraf did not have the balls to hang Nawaz Sharif , it was just that ZAB was more at the wrong end of the world than Nawaz Sharif.
As for the return of BB, please don’t give the complete credit to US for this. For whole 8 years the elephant kept supporting whole heartedly the mad dictator , they could have kept him supporting for another 8 years just like they kept supporting Zia until he died even though BB’s return on 10th April 1986 was similar to 18th October 2008. Benazir did a lot of work to get the support of right quarters for whole 8 years , she matured as a politician during her exile along with Nawaz Sharif , certain steps proved the maturity of both politicians which included:
1. Charter of Democracy.
2. Nawaz Sharif and Benazir kept their communication channel opened even after disagreement in the APC.
3. Nawaz Sharif’s agreement to contest the elections even after announcing the bycott.

All of the above along with the unprecedented movement of the lawyers shaped the whole situation in Pakistan, personally I never buy the argument of US think tanks coming up with any novel ideas like this. Specially I think Bush and his team along with their think-tanks are incapable of such things :)

Finally for NRO you would be little surprised to hear my opinion :) , I believe that in Pakistan parliament should make a law in which politicians (those who are now in government i.e PPP ANP PML(N)) are declared as sacred cows just like there are laws for Army and Judiciary. No authority in Pakistan should be able to do any accountablity of them only a parliamentary committee should look into their financial scams :) . Off course this law should be for few years perhaps 10 or so.
So in a way I support NRO , but I do not support all of the clauses of NRO specially those which do not apply to politicians , BTW do you know one of the biggest beneficiary of the NRO is no other than Mansoor-ul-Haq and his associates who did the biggest scam of the Pakistan before the 1999 , after that however there had been much bigger scams.

@nota
I agree you should be suspecious of PPP , I am sure you can not help that. However do pray that PPP come up to the expectations just like I am praying. Let me give you some more consolation , ZAB was not a practising muslim (I believe) , and he was not in favor of using religion for any political gains , however when it came to accepting the people sentiments he used “Islam is our religion” and then banned alcohol. So although he perhaps did not agree with these things he did them. Similarly I hope Asif Zardari and some other big leaders of the PPP may not be in favor of restoring CJ and some other judges in the end they may have to due to the public pressure/sentiments.

]]> By: Asif http://pkpolitics.com/2008/04/15/judges-to-be-restored/#comment-72867 Asif Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:48:28 +0000 http://pkpolitics.com/2008/04/15/judges-to-be-restored/#comment-72867 It will take time (might be several generations) to get rid of the families from national level who owe their STATURE to the Generals. It will take time (might be several generations) to get rid of the families from national level who owe their STATURE to the Generals.

]]> By: nota http://pkpolitics.com/2008/04/15/judges-to-be-restored/#comment-72863 nota Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:31:48 +0000 http://pkpolitics.com/2008/04/15/judges-to-be-restored/#comment-72863 @Amir Hameed "@saqibtahir You want everyone to analyze PPP the way you do, ..Every credible news analyst... has raised questions on PPP’s not-so-clear stance on the judiciary" Might I add that had PPP been clear about the issue, then why would the <b>April 15</a> decision be needed. And please don't blame it on "establishment" as I did not hear <b>ONE</a> PPP person -- and I heard pleant -- giving a clear answer on the subject. In fact what they were saying was the complete opposite and fighting against restoration (see the statements of the three PPP stooges Naik, Awan, and Khosa, e.g.) @Pejamistri is right when he says "There are people who have the similar doubt about PPP , until and unless the judges are restored." Why shouldn't we? @Amir Hameed
“@saqibtahir
You want everyone to analyze PPP the way you do, ..Every credible news analyst… has raised questions on PPP’s not-so-clear stance on the judiciary”

Might I add that had PPP been clear about the issue, then why would the April 15 decision be needed. And please don’t blame it on “establishment” as I did not hear ONE PPP person — and I heard pleant — giving a clear answer on the subject. In fact what they were saying was the complete opposite and fighting against restoration (see the statements of the three PPP stooges Naik, Awan, and Khosa, e.g.)

@Pejamistri is right when he says “There are people who have the similar doubt about PPP , until and unless the judges are restored.” Why shouldn’t we?

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