Is Talat begining to suffer fro bankrupcy of ideas ?
What exactly is the purpose of this program ? With the gargantuan problems facing the country such as Food crisis, energy crisis. security problems etc etc and Talat is discussing the great importance of a tornado in a tea pot !
This is the same Kashmala Tariq who came to New York alongwith the 2 other cronies of Musharraf -
( Nasim Ashraf and Barrister Saif )-at the Asia Society forum to defend Musharraf’s NOV 3rd martial law and tried to justify his sacking of the judges while severely leveling FALSE accusations against the chief justice -( Iftikhar)- She has been appointed by the Choudhries without any merit (except perhaps for a big mouth) for her present seat and she is concerned about LEGITIMACY !
I think Talat is exposing the craven opportunism that is the basic “quality” of these Q people. I think this is a pertinent debate. This has to be done for the record.
you openly defended mush’s extra constitutional acts in america .you never ever condemned shaukat aziz while you were in govt.
you never said a word about pmlq until you are in opposition.
learn a lesson or two from kabir wasti or khakwaani if you really want to project yourself as an honest politician.
i cant stop my laugh….talat you have got great sense of humour
when Riaz Lota was saing that a leader should be “cool minded, with excellent past who can can take everybody on board etc etc” talat said
“aisa leader to order par banwana paray ga”
great ……..
these are all Lotas with no dignity
This Riaz Fitna was the one who became biggest lota alongwith Nazar Wattoo in 1993 when they left PML (N) and joined hand with establishment Junijo League ……….these people are shameless
People like Kashmala think that people have short memories and that they have forgotten what she had said in the US while defending the MoFu Moshe. If PML-Q had won more seats and were in the government, she would have had stuck to the same pro-Moshe stance.
I like the way Talat polietly humiliated these lotas.
First of all I have not much respect for most of the PML-Q MNAs – because of there contribution and support towards dictatorship Pakistan suffer a lot. But still my guess is behind all this is PLM-N. I think they are using tactics to abolish PML-Q.
Fatyana-Kashmala Gang is the biggest losers & LOTAS of present days. Kashmala use TI, Mianh Waheed and then Hamyanu Akhtar for footing step, although she is educated from LSE, England but unfortunately so far she proved not more then educated prostitute or whatever but not decent… Who she is using to enter into PPP or PML-N is still not open (!)
I wrote this for you in a previous Capital Talk (March 27) comments, which went largely unnoticed; I cannot help copying it here again:
” I usually read your comments with interest and whether or not I agree with them, they are usually reasonably well founded. You do not have to, however, lower yourself while criticising others. Whatever your point is, makes its way through to most people even if said in a more decent and graceful manner. Regardless the fact that I too feel a sense of hyporcisy in Kashmala’s stance (despite the fact I clearly remember her complaining about the same thing in Ayaz Amir’s show long time ago that in her party (Q) decisions are not taken democratically and they are never consulted about anything), and feel a strong revulsion against her comments, I honestly feel that your remarks about her are totally third-class and clearly out of line; I really do not expect that language from otherwise a reasonable person like you (or anyone else for that matter). Your opening remark in Focus with Faeza is not very pleasing either (not that you remarks about Musharaf are very classy). Please leave this environment clean enough to allow the ladies from noble families to play their role without fearing such sleazy public comments. You do not know any of them good enough to be able to justify your comments, socially, morally or Islamically. I hope I made my point without offending you, which is surely not my intention . ”
I hope we can use a little respect regardless of our personal opinions and likings/dislike …. and that you will not try to somehow justify your comments.
shimatoree—you said it! My sentiments exactly. To top it all off, she is dumber than a bimbo! Always fails to impress even in the slightest. With all the other bright women around, I cannot understand the obsession with her.
i second the recommendations by Sarosh. i mentioned before that there are women here. and if we do want them to take some form of interest in gaining political awareness if not in practical politics it self the least we can do is provide them with a forum where they can feel comfortable and not objectified. i mean hell since our beloved zia ul haq no woman in the country can claim to not feel objectified on the street, atleast leave this website clean
kashmala belongs to the clan which has made all those martial laws and illegitimatacy in this country possible. Had there been not so many of the kind we wudn’t ave had suffered so much ..
there is no harm in pointing out the ppl like her who r surely despicable. as a matter of fact we must use derigatory words for ppl like kashmala or otherwise all these lotas like her , sher afgan , faisal saleh hayat etc are considered respectable even after such horrendous acts.
i doubt if u r related to her personally tht u r speakin so much in her favour. besides tk’s opinion is not only his but can be called da collective opinion of all those who can distinguish between the right and the wrong.
@Sarosh: Well I don’t need to explain a single dang thing.. so don’t expect me to defend it… and even if I tried, I don’t think I’d be able to reach the altitudes that your high horse seems to be traversing at the moment.
My apologies to the “noble” ladies who find it worthwhile to hang out at pkpolitics.
TooTi kamar na unKi shab-e vaSl jojh say
rang-e Hinaa say jink-i kalai utar gai’e
(nuff said on that account).
Please don’t expect any “classy” comments from me regarding the likes of Moshe, KhaTmala and others of their ilk. The least they deserve is a treatment as vulgar as possible as this is an indication of their worth in my personal opinion. I do not care for them enough to bother being creative in my criticisms. Also, you don’t have to read it.. you see TK.. you move right along. As I do with certain people’s posts (mostly religious a$$es whose pomposity knows no bounds).
@ Marlboro
my dear friend who likes cigarttes (much like me)
thats not the point de grade her without losing your own dignity and without turning this place into the surroundings of Cuckoos cafe(i hope you know where that is)
this is a place where women visit as well. i hate her i absoloutly do check her profile on wikipedia and youll see how many times she has switched sides and how many fake claims she has made. and she may be a slag but my dear sir, must we use words like Banged,bimbo TATTAY CHUK FAQEER etc.
would you like the use of those words in front of your mother/sister/wife/girlfriend.
and i am not ashamed to admit that i wont and just for the record my family members do visit this site
Kutimala started her political career as a member of Tehreek Insaf(unfortunately)in london when she was doing her LLM but reached the real heights by becoming the keep of Mian Waheed(Ex MNA) who also gifted her a Pajero and later on when she became a slut of Hamyon Akhtar Rehman,Mian Waheed entered her home with a gun and she launched a FIR against him because he took his Pajero back after the discontinuation of her services.Later she became the blue eyed of Busharaf because of her deep mouth….ooops sorry big mouth.She is the ugly face of our politics and I sincerely pray that elements like her are uprooted from our political scene forever.
I agree to dr about his comments on Kutimala.And the most encouraging thing is the youth is vigilant and is keeping their eyes open.We must realize,today if We hv come out our country for our careers,that is because of these traitors.All Motherfk___Mazarais,Lagharis,and many others used to serve the Goras’s dogs.They even offered their daughters and wives to them.They betrayed Us.They betrayed Our forefathers.They betrayed this soil.And today they claim to be the Gods of Our land.Yah,Ours Fellas.Our great grand fathers shed their blood not theirs’.Its shame for Us,We not raising Our hands to their heads.Quran says”O believers,always stand upfront to the cruel lord’
i cant forget that statement from Kutimala when she urged Musharraf not to release lawyers and civil society members from jails, when police arrested them after emergency and tortured them.. she also added that lawyers and civil society members deserve this treatment….
so Ms. Kutimala we have very long memory and now you cannot make people fool by saying “independence of judiciary”
if people remember that black day 12th may.. mush was dancing on dead bodies by celebrating in islamabad and this slut was standing with Mush and was overjoyed with the performnace of MQM goons in karachi…..
I remember a funny incident where Kashmala Tariq was trying to taunt Hafiz Hussain Ahmad. She said: ‘Opposition doesn’t let us work and start beating DHOOL’ She again mentioned Tabla. She was referring to desk beating.
Hafiz Hussain Ahmad said ‘This is our parliamentary right to beat assembly desks. I dont know the FAMILY Background of this BB because she mentions Dhool and Tabla’. He further said ‘I don’t know what channel this BB used to get into parliament. we were elected by the people’
Hafiz should know that she used BACK channel.
These people are just desperate. They are used to the politics of patronage. Now since their chief patron is in trouble, they dont know how to play their cards and stay in politics. They can see that their future is bleak. So they are doing these funny things. Kishmala is more unintelligent than I anticipated.
Just wanted to add that she was also a passanger in a car accident where a drunk driver hit anotherone and a 2 months old child was killed.The driver of the car was Faisal who is the owner of Niralla sweets and was drunk and was enj….ying the copany of Kutimala,when the incident took place(2007)
Dear ppl like TK and dr..
I am a very regular visitor of this website and being following it for a long time. Never had the reason to register till today. I will strongly back Sarosh and Rawk in saying that one should observe decency while posting comments on these forums. If you want to say something really really bad about anyone, kindly do that in private. Though it might suit your level of decency but it doesnt suit us.
>> In fact we must use derogatory words for ppl like ….
I read it with a subtle amazement that how were you going to complete this argument on moral, ethical or religious grounds, but then I realised I was mistaken; It is democracy that we all champion and while you are so many in favour of the proud sleezy remarks, how dare morals or religion jump into it. Afterall, with His oneness, God has only one vote so you have a higher right to define and redefine what ‘should’ and ‘must’ be done, not Him. In fact, now thinking of it, Prophet (S.A.W) should have also used the same obscene language against his opponents (or tackier if we speak on merit); bad that He could not consult your ‘collective opinion’ …. but how could He? .. .afterall religious guys are too pompous to regard this righteous group of democrates who can always tell between the right and the wrong (or failing that, redefine it!) — I am so proud of you my nation — let us take this opportunity to pass an amendment to the old pompous Quran etc. as well; their teachings are now too old to be right too ….
There you go TK … now you can add another name to your list of worthless bloggers
I am really loving your moderation policy man … I heard dog is a filtered word —- the cheesy language used on this page is obviously less profane than that … gives this site a real classy look … great!!
Forums such as these can never be totally, clinically sterile. Let’s not get all queasy and indignant just because Dr. and TK have expressed their views in the manner they chose to. We come from a country where leaders and characters like Ms Tariq have contributed to the destruction of the institutions of Pakistan collectively. These are very grave matters and here you are getting all flustered by a few comments. If the politicians and generals’ insincerity is being exposed, so be it. What goes around comes around my dear man.
For those who are Interested……and want to go to bilo day kar…Kutimal’s address and phone number is
C-4 Officers Colony, Zarrar Shaheed Road, Lahore Cantt. 042- 6670333. 0300-5155793.
I really wont like to prolong this debate, however, just a quick comment that having bigger problems does not mean that also discouraging smaller problems (according to your definition) is not right anymore. If the wrong-doings of these leaders and characters are always criticised and opposed then there is no ground to discourage other issues.
Besides, I do not give a damn about the profane language used by Abu-Jahal, but had Prophet (S.A.W) or Sahaba used the same language, I would not be able to keep my head high anymore and they would no more have the same status to me. I hope you got my point; I shall love to see at least the ‘right’ side principly and morally right, at least to the basic level.
And by the way, these little things define your moral and characteristic standing, which often defines what you elicit from this life, and much more at a national level; these are like roots — hidden, often small, often ignored, do not add to the apparent height of a tree — but without which you cannot stand tall, at least in the absolute terms. I shall rest my case here.
@Sarosh: I really don’t give a sh!t.. it’s not moral/religious/blah-blah issue. It’s a freedom of speech issue. Now you’ve dragged God and Prophet into it.. so that is admission that you feel against the wall.. that is not my intent..
I don’t really care either way.. I will say things in a manner I find suitable at any given moment.. it just illustrates what I’m feeling/thinking about an issue at that time.. don’t take it so seriously.. no one reads my posts anyways. I’m just a jacka$$ on the internets.. like millions others.. and the beauty of it is.. you can ignore those you consider douchebags.. just don’t get all suffocating and preachy and stuff..
Nah … my God’s role is slightly more than only jumping in when I feel pressed against the wall …. the reason to bring God and Prophet in was just to find a convenient point of agreement to draw the arguments from …. you could simply tell me you dont believe in that ‘stuff’ and I would change the line of my arguments to more logical than Islamic/blah blah —– sorry for making you feel uncomfortable anyways
BTW did you notice all those defenders of Khatmala no wonder q-league is breaking. If people has to stop you after just watching her on TV, imagine whats going in mind of all those Q-league MNAss and MPAss.
Sarosh, my point is that if you get disturbed by such commentary you perhaps are too faint-hearted to take to the such forums. Squeaky-clean.com may be more appropriate. The contextual backdrop to the commentary you read just isn’t that ultra-goody goody. Pakistan today, after almost a decade of Mighty Musharaf, isn’t a place for the faint hearted either.
I really don’t want to comment on religious appropriateness etc. To bring holy figures into a discussion on pkpolitics is a bit much.
Interesting … God sent those holy figures to the darkest parts of the world in the darkest times, but pkpolitics is a bit much for them ; but yes, I have the idea .. they shouldn’t be just wandering here and there disturbing us when they have mosques to live in (unfortunately most of those have also been occupied by mullahs, so nowhere to go for poor holly figures) ….
I am not disturbed dude; I am just sharing my opinion like everyone else — what do you call it? … yeah … freedom of speech buddy
Just an idea for God though (courtesy of kingarthurII) … from history I could see that prophets used to get really disturbed by the behaviour of people in response to their teachings because maybe they were too faint hearted as well … how about sending any more of such personalities to Squeaky-clean.com as well instead of places like Middle-east and Africa in those days? …… Dont take me wrong please; its just a lighthearted comment that I could not help … not being all preechy anymore at all .. I have rested my case already …
Brother I agree with what you have said. Regardless of the actions of the persons involved, one must never stoop to the level of the unbelievers. Chastity of discourse must never be sacrificed at the altar of the quality of ideas. TK says he believes in freedom of expression. I say we should have freedom FROM expression from the likes of TK and other benighted rejectors of God. But after all, these are still ideas.
What are ideas anyway? Same wine in new bottles. The eternal truths have already been revealed in the Quran and all subsequent ideas held by any human being after 632 AD fall into two categories: Those from Quran and those NOT from Quran…As we believe all good ideas come from the Quran, there can NEVER be any good ideas that are outside the Quran. Can there? That’s what I tell myself when I need to hold my head high…
I am sorry, I am not very articulate I feel very emotional about this. All I want to say is, we should always try to use the language and manners of the Sahaba. That’s why we are taught to say Asalamo Alikum (you are in my list) and Allah Hafiz. But there is a problem. Lots of time people with questionable faith try to skip Allah in the Bismillah and we have Fiaza Dawood who says BismaRrahmanaRaheem…Other people say waYesaam instead of Walikum Salam waRamatullahi waBarakatoohoo….That is just not acceptable. Even our language is a hybrid of Hindi which we learnt after living 1000 years with the Hindus (like customs of Basant, Jahaiz, Mehndi etc) We should try to unlearn bad habits like dirty language (gandi zabaan), bad manners and the wrong UnIslamic language. We need to seperate our language from Hindi and move it more towards Arabic.
Far Gad’s sake, wa-Allah-i, that TK and other al-ghaddar-an, al-fitnatoon are busy stealing the al-thunder of al-Islam. O what a munafiq-oon! Disfortunately they liketh only shayyatoon. Al-though this be paradise of West yet I care not to dwell in it al-ways and forever-oon. Sendeth me back to the land of the great king, amir-ul-momineen, parween and nasreen, ladder of the faithful, khadim al-haramain sharifain and the laltain.
My al-Ikhwan at pkpolitics websight, you maybe living thinking (soch rahe hongay) why I am sometimes opening mouth and ispeaking and sometimes quite. It is because every time I am doing heart’s talk (dil ki baat) Ghaddar godless Munafiq-oon are doing crying-washing (rona-dhona) about Demon-crazy…These al-Kafireen-e-Makkah run away from the mansion of al-Islam (zikr se door bhagte hain)…The minate the words are out of my mouth, I is deeply regret. Anger climb on face (ghussa charrh jata hai) of these sons of Abudllah Ibn Ubaye.
Ya Al-God! O refuse of the helplass! Do not al-forget about al-mbokhari. Halp him against bad ideas and darty, gandi zabaan ispeaking al-Kafiroon. Halpeth thy lowly al-sarvant to hold his al-Head high. Ya Al-Khuda! O protractor of the al-Majbooor! Halp al-morals of the Mussalmans. Fil Filasteen wal Balkan, Fi Kulli Makaan, Hum Sub Ka Pakistan…!!!
yaar this is really funny now all i was saying was a little courtesy from the men with the colorful vocabulary.. thats it.. i dont know why religon is dragged every where.. mein bohat kamzor emaan waala banda huen or mein aeysay hi theek huen
after emergency when police arrested thousands of lawyers and start beating them brutally on streets …mush held a meeting of q lotas and kashmala was vocal supporter of Mush she urged Mush not to release lawyers otherwise they will become heros and she also added that lawyers and civil society members deserve this brutal treatment ..i think in November 2007 Newspapers one can find this statement from her as it was published in 2-3 papers……
I thought we had a good long discussion at http://pkpolitics.com/2008/03/22/begam-nawazish-nusrat-mushtaq/ already to understand each other’s point of views pretty clearly and we were quite OK with it without a hint of imposition. You can therefore save me those long pieces of creativity.
After enough sarcasm, let me be audacious enough do some straight talking:
KingArthurII: I wonder if you have to be actually lion-hearted to use the obscene or tacky street language, which is often considered to be an act of a helpless or frightened coward. Maybe a good definition of ‘faint-hearted’ is the one who does not have courage to say unpopular things, fearing the potential opposition, despite all the reason available; someone who follows the group dynamics and is only good enough to clap behind a crowd.
Rawk: Religion is dragged everywhere because that is what religion (or at least Deen) is supposed to do; guide your steps everywehre. mbokhari’s case is different because he is still swinging on the bounds of belief/disbelief and does not have courage to decide who he is despite all his logical thinking, but what is the state of belief of the rest of us? Why are we so uptight about Islam or any religion? I do not mind if one does not believe and I can shape my arguments differently in that case (none of my colleagues does, and we go along pretty well), but one should decide if he/she does or not for once, and stop living the life of a confused trans. You cannot have it both ways; stop believing or start accepting what it says.
It is not just an issue of bad language, but some of you guys are even throwing huge blind allegations of violation of hudood against somebody you do not know as well, and dr is trying to prove it using totally pointless photographs. Can anyone of you prove these accusations in any court of the world? Will you be able to back these with enough evidence or even certainty when it comes back to you? If you champion freedom of speech so aggressively, you should be happy to see similar public accusation on character of your own near and dears in the name of the freedom of speech.
Crossing the limits of reason is all that revolts me against PML(Q) and I shall definitely not endorse it by Anyone against Anyone including PML(Q). (You may have so much genuinely against her that you should not need to be unreasonable or cheap in her opposition anyways). If you do not agree, then its your right, and at the end of the day you can attribute my opinion to the ‘Freedom of speech’ as well, so why get disturbed?
and as I have mentioned already a couple of times, despite my thoughts about it, I only brought in religion to find a convenient point of agreement to draw the arguments from. Feel free to disagree on reason otherwise (i.e. on nonreligious grounds) if you have some except that incessant, ill-defined mantra of the freedom of speech.
@Hussain
“…oday if We hv come out our country for our careers,that is because of these traitors.All Motherfk___Mazarais,Lagharis,and many others used to serve the Goras’s dogs.They even offered their daughters and wives to them.They betrayed Us.They betrayed Our forefathers.They betrayed this soil.”
Being one from one of those “All Motherfk” tribes, let’s just keep things in perspective here. Don’t blame the tribe for the “sardar” imposed on them by the Goras just like we don’t blame all Pakistanis for the Mush imposed on you by the very same people. We have suffered under them much more — and directly — and for a lot longer so shed your tears elsewhere. I do find it interesting you would use Kashmala’s words “Mazarais,Lagharis” but left out “Bazaris” to complete the quote. Any particular reason?
Do keep in mind “Mazarais,Lagharis” are pretty much history (at least for now). It’s “Bazaris” you need to keep an eye on now.
tauba tauba kitni dadhi cheez hai yeh Kashmaila bibi..would’nt like to be her enemy..ufff! I dont know much about her except when I saw her defending Mush and the govt on these very programmes..not once had she said any of the stuff she is now spouting out…thali ka baingan!
thankyou TK for giving the link to the Asia society…It’s really a good,informative website. I cannot believe Kashmaila and Saif defending Mush especially regarding the Chief Justice so blatantly only 5 months ago…mind boggling! koi deen iman nahin hai in logoon ka..
Who exactly died and made YOU champion of the rights of “noble ladies” alongwith the head of the bureaue of “vice & virtue” on pkpolitics?… Strong language isn’t just offensive to “noble ladies” it is (or ought to be) offensive to everyone. Offensive language is used to jarr yer fuQQen mind. For you to assume it is offensive only to ladies is Sexist and shows the different boxes that you put these genders in (mentally at least).
You are making sexist claims about the rights of “noble ladies” and assuming people are of a certain religions? It has nothing to do with a “common point of reference” . The sad thing is that you felt against the wall because 3 or 4 people started opposing your view. Do I support publishing someones phone number on the net? NO. Does that bother you? OH NUHOO! As long as human anatomy is not mentioned.. You are JESS FINE!
Don’t make me quote some of the colorful language that the prophet and the sahaba themselves used. Oh wait! I can’t.. because punk-a$$ faux-polite dillweeds like pkTaliban have made sure over the centureis we don’t get the see the real colorful language that your holy-cows used in their daily lives.
You want some colorful language that will put Tab’an Khamosh to shame? Go pick up some volume of Hadith and read the manner and mode of the reproduction of Shayaateen
Oh and don’t forget to read the Quran where it talks about women being your “land” in whcih you can “enter” from the “front” or from the “back”.. (as long as you do not transgress the laws of God — ie; NO ANAL SEX WITH UR WIVES DUDES! )
Yes ladies and gentlemen.. “doggystyle” is okay with the creator, as long as you don’t put it in the pooper.
How’s that for freedom of speech?
And @dmin: I am really disappointed that the pkTaliban are able to suffocate freedom of expression on this forum because they drag God and prophet into every discussion! I’m sick of these hypocrites! Please don’t be intimidated by these Khilafah Turtles.
Now see this is where I have to disagree with you. I rather like to see people to argue a point without resorting to Quran and Prophet. The moment some one mentions God or Prophet, then we treading dangerous waters. As there is no win for argument either way. Now these pkTaliban will be all over you, but you also could have proved your point without resorting to Quran.
@sam: “tauba tauba kitni dadhi cheez hai yeh Kashmaila bibi..would’nt like to be her enemy..ufff!”
hehehe.. yeah.. especially when she winces and exposes her canines like an agressive babboon… yeh kisi bhi Q-leegi loTay kaa pittaa paani karnay kay liye shayad kaafi hai!
wonder if TK stands for ‘Tika Kay”…haha. the PKtaliban do need to be countered..do not go gentle into the good night…rage rage against the dying of the light’
if you let them decide what is taboo and what is not…they have already won. Has no one heard of ‘Ijtihad’
i advise you to rage on…with minor adjustments in word choices
TK: that diatribe was uncalled for. You are behaving immaturely If Mr. Sarosh is hypersensitive and believes he has the monopoly on piety so be it. But you really don’t need to make flippant remarks about the Holy Quran. Sorry but this is in terribly poor taste and offends many of us, regardless of how liberal or conservative we may – or may not – be. Your facetious references to Ayaat are out of context and ill-translated. Poor show.
Iqbal most certainly did not say it to mean this but as a general disagreement to your stance of ALWAYS using logic to reach conclusions. I was not offended at all however and do extend my apologies if I sounded like I was by what you said; I enjoy the humour but had a right to disagree with its direction in semantic terms; I am just a bit too forthright at times . To set the record right, I definitely appreciate and value your mostly settled behaviour and well founded positions.
@TK
Wow … you sound very settled and calm — just wonder how you react when you feel pushed against the wall . Anyhow:
- Where did I exactly say that strong language is only offensive to noble ladies? In the context, it is just what your comments are geared towards. You are presuming / imagining a lot I can see. Regardless however, obvious behavioural differences across genders in Pakistani society are also a fact and could advocate very well against your allegations anyways.
- If I had felt pushed against the wall then maybe I would be screaming at the top of my voice as well, as you are doing. Or maybe I would just run away — anything, but would not try to present my case audaciously with reasonable arguments (and a bunch of smiles here and there ). If it makes you feel better, however, to imagine otherwise, then I dont mind the wall that much either.
- When we say/write anything publicly, we definitely come ahead with some presumptions based on the usual background of the common audience / readers, and I never denied that. I actually repeatedly said that please let me know if you did not belong to the majority and I should change the mode of my arguments; maybe you have started ignoring my post already … good for your health.
- You are definitely not looking for reason here, but just to set the record straight, your information about the Islamic references you presented and the translation / interpretation thereof seems pretty much lacking and misguided. I am sure you are not, but please do let me know if you are interested and I shall try to help you verify the facts. Regardless, however, your point is meaningless as my comments were geared towards the discouragement of out of reason and false accusations and the use of vulgar language for the sake of vulgarity. If you talked the truth or if we were intellectually discussing a serious subject that ‘required’ the use of generally taboo language (e.g. the marital relations, sexual crimes etc.), then I would have myself participated without any objection.
- Who is this PkTaliban guy by the way? The most part of my experience of polite and decent language was in UK when I was studying in Oxford Uni or now working in Microsoft etc. My colleagues can clearly not be labelled as PkTaliban but they certainly know more about decent, objective discussions without being as uptight about moral/religious norms and values, or concious about this being a talibanisation conspiracy, as you are.
- Hypocrites? :-S …. may be a vocabulary problem … please let me help you: http://dictionary.cambridge.org ….. please try to apply the definition in the context.
- the bottom line … relax dear …. it happens sometimes that one does not have a reason to argue with … shouting in such situations is not good for anything … you can always use your right to remain silent. Ohh please — not your freedom of speech or sexist cliches again … OK please have it your way … you have the freedom to SHOUT OUT LOUD.
@econfused
This is a very common and popular opinion that you are giving, however, this is still very subjective. I shall love to have an intellectual, objective and purposeful discussion on why or why not it is a good idea to resort to Quran. I am sure I shall gain from your point of view and may have a couple of points to offer myself too. The environment at the moment, however, does not seem rich or fertile enough for a sober intellectual discussion.
to TK
well done dude u r n8 tht bad afterall in comin up wid articulate points. specially the doggy style one ws quite pertinent and shud ave served a gud xample for talibans at pkpolitics. keep posting ur views i enjoyed ur comments and appreciate them . ur comments sure can b useful in settin aside dese talibans here
and dis sarosh is disgusting ist she drages quran n prophet in this conversations n now she is ostentiously tryin to tel she has studied frm oxford n works in microsoft …. as if sum body cares his b@lls. lolzz tk u keep up wid ur juicy arguments . they r much appreciated.
I actually repeatedly said that please let me know if you did not belong to the majority and I should change the mode of my arguments;
I do not mind if one does not believe and I can shape my arguments differently in that case
I only brought in religion to find a convenient point of agreement to draw the arguments from.
Well, isn’t that quite presumptuous of you to START with presuming that people you are addressing are Muslim? Who told you to assume that? Why would your argument be BASED on the other person’s religion?
I find this in exceedingly bad taste and bad form. Very impolite of you to assume what the state of my belief is, or to comment on it. My faith is my business or the Almighty’s. Nobody elses. As the immortal Tupac Shakur said, “Only God can judge me. Only God.”
Now having said that, I believe that you are good dude/dudette(?) and mean well. So, I am going to help you out. Here is how you should post your messages:
——————————–
#include
int main(void_TOTAL_VOID)
{
char Naame_e_Amaal;
printf(“State your religion\n”);
printf(“State your prisoner number\n”);
scanf(“%c”,&Naame_e_Amaal);
if (Naame_e_Amaal == Islam)
{
printf(“I will talk to you. I will tell you what is right/wrong. You are wrong.\n”);
printf(“See how easy that was?.\n”);
}
else
{
printf(“I have nothing meaningful to say so I’ll shut up and bide my time..\n”);
}
printf(“This is not a Khali Lifafah. It’s a high end Gucci Khali Lifafah.\n”);
printf(“P.S. I went to Oxford. Actually, Madrassa Oxfordiya lil Binaat wal Jinaat\n”);
I change sects on a weekly basis. Last week I was a Bokonist Muslim. This week I am a Pastafarian Muslim.
All hail His Noodly Appendage!
So, what have you got to say now?
——————————————————
I’m a modern Muslim, digital and smoke-free; a Muslim for the millennium. A diversified, multi-cultural, post-modern deconstructionist; politically, religiously and ecologically incorrect Muslim.
I am a high-concept, low-profile, long-range ballistic Lifafah-buster. I take it slow, I go with the flow; I ride with the tide, I’ve got glide in my stride. I don’t snooze, so I don’t lose. I keep the pedal to the metal and the rubber on the road.
First, thanks for your efforts in automating my arguments, however, let alone the logical mistakes I can foresee, it did not compile well in the first place; too many syntax errors .
Now your point about the presumptions; it is fair enough and maybe I should not presume anything, but just look at your code above: did you not presume that there is a library available that allows you printf and scanf and those in a particular syntax — this also implies your presumptions about a certain compiler and platform being used etc (or at least ANSI being followed)? Why did you not write these routines from scratch as well? Just because if possible you did not want to reinvent the wheel and used any potential / usual support available out there. Similar is my case; Will you deny the fact that majority of the population in Pakistan and almost everyone in this forum is Muslim? if yes, then why is it so bad to presume that, if it reduces the required amount of effort to craft the arguments? Islam is not an untouchable thing; it is a set of facts, rules and guidelines, and reasons thereof. If one believes in these set of rules, it means that there is a territory where he/she and I stand on the same page and I can draw my arguments from that set of beliefs (similar to C libraries/API, if you will), instead of constructing everything right from the scratch. There is nothing strange about this approach, and all of us follow it, except that others usually rely on other set of beliefs than Islam, e.g. democracy, fundamentals of logic, our cultural norms and the knowledge thereof etc.
As for an exceptional case, where the addressee does not believe in Islam, I am ready to go the extra mile (just like in case of a person who is not clear why democracy is a ‘good’ thing in the first place, you will have to devise your arguments in a more detailed fashion). I can only try to assure you that my respect for such a person does not and should not reduce at all either (So far I was actually relying on you to be my witness that my position and respectfullness towards you did not change at all, despite our extreme disagreements in our last debate on ‘Begam Nawazish Ali’ blog).
As for my comments about the status of your faith, I hope you understand that it was not meant to offend you at all. I am sorry but I am not ready to accept that I assumed anything here; I only repeated what you publicly said yourself in the other forum (“… areas where I tread cautiously, and on my toes. For it touches upon disbelief”) and it was not meant to be disrespectful at all. I extend an unconditional apology to you on this point if it hurt your feelings anyways.
Now coming back to the C routine you suggested, ignoring the syntax, semantics too are extremely unfair. Please just go through our previous discussion that I referred to earlier, or my posts above; do you really see me labelling others with right / wrong without presenting the reason for my opinions, and those too only about issues and values, not personalities? Are you not doing the same here, only in a more sarcastic manner and often in the opposite direction? The last two messages are not even dignifiable, with apologies; there are certain things which I only brought up to dissociate myself from the propagated mark of mullahyat — you can definitely try to exploit it however; it is your decision.
I am pkTALIBAN I keep telling these ladies to stay home.They have no business mixing with men and not covering their faces.If it was upto me they should get physical abuse.I don’t believe in verbal abuse.
I do not see Kashmala as rebellious. She has a right to have here say. That right has been given to her by Allah. Just like when Hazrat Ayesa use here right.
Men has authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other and because they spend their wealth to maintain them.Good women are obedient,As for those from whom you fear disobedience,admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them.Then if they obey you take no further action against them.
God is High Supreme.
@ zia m
i hope you dad does that to your mother
and i hope your sister suffers the same from her husband
your disgusting.
according to you women are slaves. so please tell me my pro taliban friend why did Hazrat Aisha lead an army against Hazrat Ali
well? was she wrong to do so
I guess now you will have to stifle your instinctive reaction and say, “Oh ho, Now I see the error of my ways” and make appropriate noises. You see, you have just slipped outside the boundary of the circle of Islam (Islam ka Daira). Matter of fact, it is a powerful sixer, from leg-off, over the pavillion (raise hands like Bowden)…
So let me be the first to pronounce judgment on you:
Rawk, thou hast been found guilty of insulting the Noble Quran. In thy deviousness thou hast found it fitting to hurl abuse at the immutable Word of God, Most High.
And in so doing thou hast confined thy despicable soul to eternal damnation in the deepest depths of hell, to live and die and die again. Forever and ever more. May God has mercy on thy soul….
[Everybody, get your rocks, one hit at a time, aim for the head...Thank you and please join me later for refreshments at the Kabul KopaKabana...]
Thanks for apologizing. You had hurt me feelers. It feels better now, merci beaucoup. I accept your apology.
Similar is my case; Will you deny the fact that majority of the population in Pakistan and almost everyone in this forum is Muslim? if yes, then why is it so bad to presume that, if it reduces the required amount of effort to craft the arguments?
all of us follow it, except that others usually rely on other set of beliefs than Islam, e.g. democracy, fundamentals of logic, our cultural norms and the knowledge thereof etc.
In the first quote, by saying “reducing the required amount of effort”, you have acknowledged your intellectual laziness…Tut, tut, tut…Very bad tableegh….. Also, you have committed the gross impoliteness of offending Hindu, Parsi, Christian and Pastafarian Pakistanis by ignoring them.
It is very impractical even in real life to start discussions with, “Excuse me, are you Muslim? if yes, what type? Press 1 for moderate, press 2 for liberal, press 3 for barking mad…” Human beings are not PABX exchanges…Stop crafting your responses on the addressee’s personal relationship with the Almighty…It has nothing to do with you…
In the second quote you commit the blasphemy of equating a belief in Allah to a belief in democracy. Democracy (demon-crazy?) is not my God. Allah is my God, Most High…. Ma’az Allah. La 7aoula waLa Qu’atta illa Billah !!! How dare you? You have inflamed my religious passions….(Mere mazhabi jazbaat majrooh ho gaye hain) I demand satisfaction…immediately…
And one more thing…ignore the sarcasm, it is intended for people who are born with a sense of humor…
Why am I taking the effort to respond to you? It’s because your attitude is symptomatic of Mullahcracy in Pakistan and it bugs me…Please don’t write a very lengthy response…We are not going to resolve anything…Other than turning more people off from your brand of Islam…Which in your case must be counter-productive, unless of course if you are scoring points with the Holy One, upstairs (Ooper Waala)?
I thought Zia m was just having fun posting non-serious comments and I still think so, however, just to set the record straight, ‘Qawwam Alayha’ is an Arabic phrase which translates to The one responsible for maintenance, resources etc. The referred Ayat (4/34) is not even talking about husband and wife and only says as a general rule that providing living means and resources to women is the primary responsibility of men, so that women get the freehand to focus on their primary responsibilities and safeguard their potentialities (certainly not that they are not ‘allowed’ to work but that they do not ‘have’ to).
@mbokhari
you are clearly only having fun now (and so am I), so no, my reply will not be long at all …. you very skillfully ignored that you also suffer from this intellectual laziness, or the next time I expect you to start your comments on politics from the very definition of democracy, its comparison with other systems, its benefits concluding why military intervention is a bad thing and then on to your more creative thoughts. For the record, I am not equating God with democracy (how did you get this really? :-S … you are creative man, i.e. create a lot yourself on top of what I actually said ) but just presumptions of different beliefs. And just by the way, I believe Islam is more comparable to other systems in the world than other religions … yup .. you are allowed to go crazy on this. It may even give you a better chance to make less sloppy arguments / humour .
The referred Ayat (4/34) is not even talking about husband and wife
Nice tafseer there, Mufassir Quran Saroshi bibi ;’-)
So is Quran explaining the relationship between boyfriends/girlfriends? Because evidently Quran is not talking about fathers/daughters or brothers/sisters… I ask Allah’s refuge from such Kufr!!! Dr Israr Ahmad in his exegesis on this ayah here (min 15-22) explains that the Quran is talking specifically about Husbands and Wives…It has been so understood down the ages from Prohpet Muhammad (saw) till you showed up…I hope Farhat Hashmi is not responsible for this gross perversion of Quran. Iqbal was right. “Khud nahiN badalte Quran badal dete haiN.”….tch, tch, tch….
Woe unto those who lie and hide Allah’s signs. Verily Allah is all-knowing, all-wise. For truly, Allah Almighty speaketh the Truth.
And please don’t launch into what ‘Qawwam alaya’ means. Neither you or I speak Fusa7 Arabic. Dr. Israr does. I’m sticking to his exegesis and will refer Rawk to this meaning of the Ayah. This is bigger than the Danish cartoons. This is, ostensibly, a Muslim spouting insults against Quran…
I am giving Rawk an ultimatum of 2 days to retract his blasphemy or else I will start tracing his ip.
[my placards are ready, I haven't shaved and my ghuTra is ironed] Rawk you will pay, your 9/11 is on its way!!!
The blasphemy shall be avenged!!!
Bake the unbeliever!!!
Microwave the heretic!!!
The discussion here reminds me Dostevsky’s era in 19th century , when Russian youth was settling the question of existence of God , let me quote here interesting paragraph from Brothers Karamzov
And what have Russian boys been doing up till
now, some of them, I mean? In this stinking tavern, for instance,
here, they meet and sit down in a corner. They’ve never met in their
lives before and, when they go out of the tavern, they won’t meet
again for forty years. And what do they talk about in that momentary
halt in the tavern? Of the eternal questions, of the existence of
God and immortality. And those who do not believe in God talk of
socialism or anarchism, of the transformation of all humanity on a new
pattern, so that it all comes to the same, they’re the same
questions turned inside out. And masses, masses of the most original
Russian boys do nothing but talk of the eternal questions! Isn’t it
so?”
“Yes, for real Russians the questions of God’s existence and of
immortality, or, as you say, the same questions turned inside out,
come first and foremost, of course, and so they should,” said Alyosha,
still watching his brother with the same gentle and inquiring smile.
Yes for real Pakistani youth question of superiority of Islam is first and foremost. Whatever they talk about democracy , rule of law , whether they are pro or con , it is the same question turned inside out.
I am not sure whether the Russian youth was able to settle this question however their divorce to the socialism and communism and embracing western democracy with capitalism means that they have reached to some conclusion.
It won’t be too long for us to reach to some conclusion whether right or wrong
From one big ole fanboy of Dostoyevsky to another, Raskolnikov lives!!!
But I think you are wrong about the nature of the conversation here. This conversation is between two types of Pakistanis. One type believes in rationality, questioning everything and challenging authority. This type understands what Socrates meant when he said, “Know Thyself” for to know oneself, one must question everything. I count myself among this thought-group.
On the other hand we have the Lifaafa Turtles. Poor souls, brainwashed from tender ages. They are like little sniveling grade-schoolers who have seen the answer at the end of the Maths book and are just trying to fudge the question into arriving at the “correct” answer. Failing that, they dry their tears, wipe their noses with their sleeves and TaDa! back to the struggle of squaring the circle. I pity them.
Here is a choice quote from an ideal specimen of a Stoneage Mutant Lifaafa Turtle: (At 7.48am)
“…As a Muslim opting for any other thought would mean that you are copying that thought from some where else like Secularism, Demon-crazy or dictatorship etc. I am copying thoughts from Islam and will keep doing it the whole of my life because Islam is my only reference point and not secularism and democracy…”
Now I know what it means when they say “Aqal pe matam karna”
Anybody who is also into Russian literature must see Woody Allen’s “Love and Death”. Its a hoot. A hodge-podge parody of the works of Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy and Turgenev. More specifically, Brothers Karamov and War & Peace…
Boris (Woody Allen) is one of 3 brothers (Karamazov) and when Napoloen invades, he conspires to murder him (Pierre Bezukhov/War&Peace)…He comes to a passed-out Napoleon:
Boris: If I don’t kill him he’ll make war all through Europe. But murder… What would Socrates say? All those Greeks were homosexuals. Boy, they must have had some wild parties. I bet they all took a house together in Crete for the summer. A: Socrates is a man. B: All men are mortal. C: All men are Socrates. Means all men are homosexuals. Heh… I’m not a homosexual. Once, some cossacks whisled at me. I, I have the kind of body that excites both persuasions. You know, some men are heterosexual and some men are bisexual and some men don’t think about sex at all, you know… they become lawyers.
Please stop quoting my statements partially to twist their meanings; your humour is no more funny if it starts promoting misunderstandings. I have clearly mentioned that the ayat specifies a general rule of the society that earning of the living and provision of resources to women is the primary responsibility of men; be it a father, brother, son or husband … the responsibility lies with the adult male members of the family. If a female is contributing, she is doing you a favour, which, should not be on the cost of the sacrifice of her primary responsibilities.
I tried but could not find anywhere in Quran that following Dr. Israr’s interpretations is a part of Islam; I respect his research and ideas, but do not follow him blindly, or anyone else for that matter. If you think this ayat has been understood the way you say, for ages since the Prophet (S.A.W) then you definitely need a lot more study than merely following one scholar of your choice, i.e. please follow your misapplied cliche of ‘question everything’, eh.
Secondly, I do not expect you to agree with me, but to be fair in your statements. The argument here was never about reasoning; TK never even started reasoning. It was just about the suitability of aimless usage of abusive and obscene language, which you are trying to twist to be within your comfort zone of your typical rants. You are more than welcome to argue on reason, as we did once before, and surely you did not think of me as a brainwashed lifafa turtle then … please go through it again to refresh your memory. Ironically enough, however, you have acted as one yourself trying to stamp Dr. Israr’s interpretation on everyone; be honest please.
And yes; please also stop presuming (wrong) about my gender .
“…you have acted as one yourself trying to stamp Dr. Israr’s interpretation on everyone…”
What’s the word, uh, yea…Sarcasm….Reductio ad Absurdum, Parody and….Irony…I was lampooning typical Lifaafa behavior…
Don’t take me too seriously..I am not out to change the world. However, I like to make fun of people who think they are out to change the world by putting a Khali Lifaafa on it.. And no, I don’t consider you to be one…
You know what this reminds me of? Fruitless, Bang-yer-head-on-the-friggin-wall discussions with Revomitist… Oh the incarnations the turtles have.. idhar Doobay, udhar niklay
@Sarosh: yes, I’d like your “interpretation” of the *cough*doggy ishtyle*cough* verses. Fire away (not literally!). I’m sure you know chapter and verse or shall I provide the coordinates?
And BTW, the (future) first caliph is on record having told someone to go suck Al-Lat’s “Cli7oris” or “Cun7″.. some body part…. I think it was right around the time of Fath’e Makkah. Maybe you can ask the pkTaliban’s only ministry, Vice & Virtue or just make some feeble excuse up. This was not the only instance.. there was some quite colorful language used by those currently considered “Pink Unicorns with shiny flowing silken manes” .. buahahahahah!
@mbokhari: pearls before swine my frined… why doeth thou waste yer mojo thus ma man? kaTTooN ko za’afrani cha’i pilaany say kuch nahiN hogaa bhayyaa! yeh kaTTay hi rahenGay!
(oh and that movie.. sounds hilarious.. the clip you posted reminded me of Tarkovsky’s “Andrei Rublev”(?) and its cinematography.)
@Sarosh
Most of us stay with the belief system they are born in.I have lot of respect for people who use reason and opt for the best faith they can find.I have no doubt Islam is the best religion around.I just believe in a Creator and am agnostic as for the religions are concerned.My Creator is not a narrow minded Being who will throw every non believer in hell.
Religions are based on mythology and evolved over a time Islam being the latest and most sensible one but let us not forget it was revealed some 1400 years ago .
There is a verse in Quran stating “We have never sent a prophet unto a nation unless he speaks their language.”
There have been great Muslim scholars who believed in reason likes of Ibn Rushd who were declared heretics that is why we are in turmoil today.
Welcome back. Thought you had gone off the deep end and joined Optimist. You should have been there with me, peja and ad min. We had a very good discussion. Wonder when is he gonna post it…
About the Hadith you mentioned, I recall reading something like this. I think it was at the time of Sulah Hudaibiya. One of the kuffar had objected to the phrase “Muhammad, Prophet of God” and thats when one of the Sahaba (Abubakar, Umar?) said something like, and I am paraphrasing the exact Urdu sentence structure, “Why you little!!! Soft part of woman of your mother!!!”
I did not mention it since I assumed that Sarosh was a Burqafied Sista, you know the Ninja, given his decency jihad. Just did not want to be indelicate.
@mbokahri: haha thanks bro! naah! it was a beautiful sunny saturday and I were out and about.. I was actually looking forward to our little chat.. but I don’t think it would be fair to the team and adm1n if I were to insist on freedom of whatever and got a bunch of burqa-brigadiers after him and pkPolitics on my account.. just better to.. you know.. stay Khamosh (for once).. hehehe.. because I’m not about to stop swearing whenever I please (on or off record).
Re: the incident and hadith etc, I specifically mentioned these things, firstly because they are part of our history, and secondly because we need to break some of these BS holy cows that everyone seems to construct out of thin air. For me, the only thing that matters is the message (if at all), everything and everyone else is just other human beings.. they f4rt, they they fornikate, they were born, they bled, they defecated and they died just like the rest of us. And AFAIAC, men and women are equal.. so why should I give any special treatment to women over men? … we’re all just animals.. part of the same thread. some of us have doo-doo’s and some have hoo-haa’s .. not a big difference.
Prophet Muhammad first marriage with Bibi khadijah was fruit of love affair that mean in today world they were boyfriend and girlfriend before becoming Husband and wife.
What many people to not understand is that prophet Muhammad was a morden man of his time. so if he would be leaving in todays world the would be more modern than Mr. Bush or any western leader. He would definatly not follow religion of Wahabism.
The meaning of “boyfriend and girlfriend” is having the same relationship as husban & wife carries in general with the only difference of being not declared husband & wife in the law of their ststes.
I think you live in states too so you better know what is the difference between simple friend & girl/boy friend, so do take care while you are using the words from one to another culture.
I concur with most of the things you said, including the theocratic frenzies and impediments we experienced, and the fate of non-believers, which are IMO, both, logical and also endorsed in Quran. Your comments about religions being ‘based’ on mythology do not add up however, if on the other hand you tend to believe that (at least some) religions are a work of God; it can only be either of these two at one time. I have studied many religions and found many great things there, however, Islam is unique in the sense (among many others) that its prime scripture (Quran) is historically (not just based on mere faith) unchanged; the rest of the resources however (Ahadith) have been heavily distorted which often causes misunderstandings and asks for a very careful elicitation of the facts.
As for TK’s other point, I believe we are confusing a couple of different things together here. I initially objected on two different things:
1- Unnecessary usage of abusive, indecent and obscene language, when the actual message can be put across without any loss of meanings otherwise.
2- False or speculative allegations against somebody, and / or disrespect beyond reason / limit. Here we also need to keep in mind the actual behavioural norms of our society beyond pure theories.
I hope we all have enough reason already to know why both of these are considered wrong practices, not only religiously but also on social basis. I oppose these things on principle and reasons, regardless of who did what (excluding the examples of Prophet (S.A.W) for obvious reasons, but not without questioning for sure). As for the referred rawayat, I have to say a couple of things here:
- As I already mentioned, we need to be very careful about eliciting the facts from any other source than Quran for the given reasons (now I am talking in purely factual manner, not faith). The available number of reported distinct Rawayahs exceeds one million which is hugely unrealistic. Many incidents have been reported, till very recent times, where Ahadith were changed, tailored or even crafted to suit a certain faith or to oppose it. This is a huge subject and I can actually give you hundreds of examples where the ahadith contradict with each other as well as Quran; it is actually hard to sift these to find the ones which comply and conform with Quran. Quran on the other hand is very consistent and clear in its message and speaks noticeably different language than most ahadith (not all). The specified rawayat is actually negligible in comparison to some others which give me a shiver down my spine. To me, the acid test is their compliance with Quran, which says clearly that it interprets some of its verses with the help of other verses, constructing a very lucid message.
- Even if you insist that the referred rawayat is sahi (which is not very plausible), it does not change anything. If one of the sahabas did something wrong, it does not make it right and I would oppose him on this with equal force. Sahabas were still humans and made mistakes which is no argument against the discouragement of wrong actions. Also dont forget that some of the sahabas were even called munafiq by Quran, which renders this argument totally meaningless. I believe in values, reasons and principles, not people. In addition to that, Quran also stresses on politeness and decent language in many verses, which is a more authentic reference of Islam’s position on this, instead of a random story.
Asif, What i have stated I fully stand behind it. In TN where I leave to be boy friend and girld does not been have to have sex. I am from Peshawar and had my marriage with girl who was my girl friend before I married her.
Either you are too naive or me, that what’s the difference between a simple friend & girl/boy friend?
I leave it upto the rest of audience living in europe & states to clarify the difference.
As I have travelled around the globe, my understanding with the concept of girl/boyfriend is that they are husband & wife with the only exception that their law does not consider them so until & unless they sign an agreement in which an important article is that upon seperation their assets would be divided equally. And theres no obligation on seperation from being a boy/girl friend by law.
Sarosh I didn’t mention a ‘rawayat’, I mentioned the book itself. Way to weazle! but you won’t get off easy.
Also, no-one has given you or anyone else the right to become the danda-brigade of Sector F7 and start closing down the brothels of linguistic infamy. You have a right to object to what you consider obscene but you DO NOT have the right to infringe on MY rights to say what I feel is the appropriate mode and manner of discourse given the situation.
Patriotism is not the only and last refuge of the intellectually lazy and incompetent scoundrel. It would seem in our degenerate “Faux Islamic”, rather Islamo-Fetishist, world, God and Prophet are also the preferred refuge of these scoundrels.
If you bring God and Prophet into a discussion about obscenity and start pontificating about it.. you’ll be (because you CAN Be) brought face to face with the human reality of the religion you profess, and the book you dare to drag into this conversation.
Also, if you are (or consider yourself to be) one of the “noble ladies” then you should say it upfront.. otherwise, I will consider you (at best) an MQM-esque transvestite (they also have a tendency to use girlish nicks for some sick twisted reason)
Now, your easily offended sensibilities notwithstanding, let me re-cap the issue of the Ayat in Quran. Omar had sexual intercourse with his wife in the rear-entry position, then he freaked out and went to the prophet, and asked him specifically about it.. the Prophet (S) stayed quiet, and after a while the “ayaat” were transmitted.
I can understand the part regarading Umer can be characterized as “rawayaat” but to ignore the actual Aayat and pretend they are also rawayat (or they are some one of a million fake/contradicting ahadith) is intellectual dishonesty of the highest order. I posted a link to it in news & views.. feel free to clickthrough to it, everyone else has by now.
You brought god into it, I brought his word into it. deal with it and stop being intellectually dishonest by pretending the issue is “some contradicting rawayat”. Not that this is an excuse for obscenity (which, again, is not good or bad based on who hears it, but intrinscially so (if at all))
P.S. and please give your pompous high horse a pasture break.. it must be getting rather boring and tiresome, (for the poor horse that is.) Perhaps s/he could be named Asp-e-Akhfash? ;’-)
Being girl/boyfriend, its verything including romance,legaly they are not husband & wife BUT socialy they are husband & wife.
I think it will make easier for you to understand that the words simple friends & girl/boy friends are altogether carry a different meaning in western society & boyfriend/girlfriend are supposed to have every kinna relationship in their society, they can live toghether, they can have kids, etc.
I cannot believe you are still going on and on about it. I have stopped reading and responding to @reviavlist comments. I have stopped paying attention to @sarosh also the moment he brought in Prophet and Quran and then he backed up his logic with oxford/micrsofot credentials.
I told you to stop discussing Quran/Hadith as it is a no win game. Keep your understanding faith with you . You are just wasting bandwidth, as you were for revivalist.
Sorry for the misunderstanding dude … What I meant was that your statement:
“My Creator is not a narrow minded Being who will throw every non believer in hell.”
is both, logical and also endorsed by Quran, which specifies in many places that there are good people among non-Muslims too, who will be rewarded for their good deeds. And as for killings of the non-believers, I guess you have got the idea how strong I feel against that, while I am advocating that they even have a share in good reward . In my earlier comments, I just listed the topics and said that I concurred with your stated thoughts on all these.
- Your opening statement is a strange argument. When I said ahadith have been added and distorted, did I mean in video games instead? of course the changes have been made in books and new books have been written all along. It is a fact agreed by all that there was no formal mechanism of documenting rawayaat during Prophet’s era and even Bukhari, supposedly the most authentic book of ahadith for obvious reasons, was written more than 2.5 centuries after Hijrat.
- Your second argument is also strange, that I can object but not infringe your rights … how exactly do you differentiate between the two on this forum and label what I did as infringement? If I can object, that is all what I did. Can I practically infringe your rights by just posting my opinions here?
- Your third statement is just an opinion which you have the right to, and for the forth one, I never stopped you from giving references from Quran here. I just humbly advocated my case in the reply, keeping it short. I welcome you to bring me face to face to whatever realities you like; I shall definitely present my opinion if I have an argument for those being less than real.
- Girlish nicks? :S …. you are simply incredible bro … Sarosh is a persian name and is also used as a title to the Archangel Gabriel. Originally it is a male name, though also used by some females. Just google this name on the images page and see what ratio of male and female faces you find in the first 7, 8 pages.
- As for the story about Shaan-e-nuzool you mentioned, you will be disappointed to know that this is not the only one. There are at least 5, 6 different reported anecdotes about the ‘reason’ for this verse. What I say about Quran and these rawayats is simple and endorsed by most of the non-Muslim historians as well. The publication and collective hifz of Quran was begun as soon as the continual revelation started. Till Hazrat usman’s rule, the hand-written copies had been spread across many countries; some of the earlier copies can still be found in some museums today, and matched against the current text available. Ahadith, on the other hand were never documented and, as I mentioned, research work for Bukhari was started after more than 250 years of Hijra, i.e. when many generations had passed away and most ahadith were only available as people heard them from their forefathers. It is only natural that you can find all kind of contradicting material among ahadith now and many people used this opportunity to add a lot of rubbish there as well.
- I never said that the Ayat you quoted was also a rawayat … It is Sura-e-Baqra, verse 223 and I know it very well. I only did not reply to you on this because honestly I felt you were not looking for a serious discussion and analysis but just an excuse to prove that Quran also contains indecent discussions (which still does not actually advocate your use of obscene language and false accusations; you just had to attack in some way). If you insist, I can surely present my opinion on this; I have several points to make here and to keep it more structured, I shall dedicate my next post to it. Hope its fine with you.
Here you go (please be patient as I shall try to develope my argument progressively):
1- First of all, please understand that as I mentioned earlier, Quran says that it clarifies some of its verses using some other verses, i.e. if you list all the verses related with a specific topic and their closure at one place and unify them, they will give you a very clear description of a particular topic. Problem with translating individual ayaat, however, is that, while Arabic is an immensely broad language a huge number of Arabic words have many different meanings, rendering a single verse ambiguous very often.
2- There are several verses in Quran which state that the marital relation for humans is not just a physical relation and that the intercourse should ideally have a purpose to serve instead of fulfilling one’s sexual desires — at another place it says that the ‘purpose’ of the marriage must not be physical pleasure, and at another place praises those people who only engage in sexual intercourse when it is aimed at conception. (Just a by note that these verses just try to set the right preferences in a marital relation towards healthier, more balanced and stable living style, however, as implied by some other verses, this is a preferred way, not an absolute rule).
3- Now coming to the verse you mentioned, please note that the verse just before this one (2/222) is the one that forbids the intercourse during menstruation stating that it is not hygienic etc. The next verse continues in the same context, and argues that from a reproduction point of view “the example of your wives is that of a tilth”, which a farmer only enters when he intends to sow the seeds and during menstruation the intercourse cannot serve this purpose anyways.
4- As mentioned in 3, the actual crux of the verse was the metaphoric characterisation of a married woman as tilth from a reproduction point of view. Unfortunately it went unnoticed to some vibrant mullahs and the part of the verse that caught their attention the most was ‘Anna Shi’tum’; Anna has two popular meanings, ‘when’ and ‘where’; in most translations you will see that both of these meanings are given side by side as, ” … when/where you will”. From this, some of the mullahs tried to conciously promote their fantasies, however, if you honestly put this verse in the context and also take into account the verses mentioned in 2, there is only one meaning that you can deduce (endorsed by many scholars), which implies that you should enter the tilth when you plan to reproduce.
Although in my last post addressed to you I have already explained what I actually meant and that Quran even talks of reward to the good people from among non-Muslims, to make it more explicit, let me also say that killing of non-believers is not only not a concept of Quran, but it can be very strongly and effectively refuted from a broad set of verses thereof.
@Sarosh
Thanks for clarification.I was talking about your imaginary hell fire that is
meant for all non-believers.I don’t even want to touch the killing part.
This thread is getting too long we should move to visitors views.
Peace{
For that too, I am already clear that I do not believe in any kind of hell fire targetted at non-believers both logically as well as religiously as the same is endorsed by Quran. The imaginary hell fire does not kill by the way .
Thanks for joining the call on weekend. GM was hosting the call and I (admin) was just the operator in first few minutes.
I had to fly today to US and forgot the dongle for my sound editing software in home. The raw sound quality is not good enough for publishing and most likely it will be put online once I get back in few days.
TK ………..
such a C Class stuff …….
do u have enough dare to write your original name while typing nasty things.
feeling real shame for my male bros like u n ur kind.
u translated which QURANs ayah …..for ALLAH S sake if u r muslim …ask ALLAH FOR GUIDANCE …so tht He cud help u out ….
cant u write a sentence without ur specific verbal abuse.
i m medical student n unfortunately female. i cud understant what shall the language u guys will use wen i will enter into politics. what ever kashmala tariq is ,go n prove it in court…….and let all of us get rid of her …..have u seen her doin all ,,,,
at some DR ………..what u r talkin u ve just put allegation of killing on her ….do u ppl ponder for a moment what u r writing …i know all of u r our burger lot or the one so called english fluent …(i m a paindo person rather i didnt c american pie thats y i always need dictionary for u guys esp TK thing s WORDS ..n i always come up with some nude things ….)
………………………..now i cud understand WASI ZAFAR s psyche ….what is the difference between u n him…..
atleast Tk sahab …..i can understand u r some OONCHI cheezi thtsy using such nude stuff ….
i just came back after long time here n last time i left coming here cuz of u guys NUDE language….if u disagree wid some one is it necessary to use such comments….
by d IS THERE ANY MODERATION EXIST..
…………………………..n now a DIRTY DIALOGUE FOR MY bro TK n all of his sort
…what do u say to ur sis or ur mother wen u disagree wid her ( chowkidar k saath ghomnay wali, ya sexy crow…….AIK DO JUMLAY AOR HEN JO AAP KO DEFINE KRTAY HEN BUT I WONT WRITE …….) i dont know the family of urs ……..
for ALLAH sake …what is the sin of v females ….
…………….n in last just wanna say thanks n have lots of prayers for SAROSH..n other who supported him……..
i m hopeless seeein TKs …
You must be in Chandka medical college because I cannot understand a word you are trying to say.Go and visit Wikipedia and you will find out what your Baji Kutimala is.
ur attitude SHOWS which family n institute u belong (just for ur info i m in DUHS )
FOR UR mind which is full of WISDOM …..wikepedia is user MAINTAINED SITE ….doesnt publish authorized and authentic things rather the one which are pasted by USERS…did u get it or u need some dictionary…(ur mind is engorged with sick nerves thts y u cant get sentences which dont contain nudity)
and for this DR username …..sir before using such a prestigous word as ur username try to become a bit civilized ………on what basis u r typing wrong spells for kashmala ………….
…..
lastly i just came here to post a last question to this TK thing ….
sir would u keep using this ABUSIVE language if u r invited to talk on tv. ..or the place where thousands of people know ….
u..
…..do u have a single horse power DARE TO TALK IN THIS WAY IN FRONT OF PEOPLE WHO KNOW …………..U DONT EVEN HAVE TO WRITE UR ORIGINAL NAME HERE …
…
FOR THIS DR STUFF …………….IT DOESNT MATTER FROM WHERE BELONG THE THING WHICH MATTERS IS WHAT V SAY (I JUST MENTIONED duhs thing i dont feel proud of it …n respect all the ppl who study even in CMC)
….plz always provide proof before putting allegations of any sort …did u c her sitting in car wid NIRALA s owner s son ..or did u c her doing CHEAP things with any person from ur eyes ….or u just read on line …..
…
ur class is revealed ….
(for comprehending U N TK s post i always need SLANGs dictionary)…
i feel proud on being PAINDO …..hate to be of ur VARIETY …i.e andar pind bahir burger
there should be no respect and no decency should be shown to the people like kashmala tariq and other q lotas….so please stop your lecture now….if someone used bad words for kashmala she deserve that 100 %…..i cant forget that scene when on 12th may Mqm slaughtered 50 people in karachi and Mosh doggie was overjoyed and dancing in islamabad on dead bodies and this b i tch was standing on the right side of Mush and was also full of happiness….people like kashmala and other shameless politicians should be treated in such a way so that they become an example for every shamelsess politician in the country….
for your furher information this slut was in USA to defend Mush´s 3rd Novemeber action, kicking the judges out , imposing emergency …she also added in Lahore that lawyers and civil society members deserve that brutal treatement and Govt. should not release them at any cost…..
just imagine her thinkings and then give lecture to others….in my opinion she is a characterless crap and deserve no respect at all
@TK
I would liked to have left it to you to say it but I cant help not say,watch
Kashmala aur teen nazar wato, hahaha
I haven’t watched the program yet, and I can assure you I am ready to join Kashmala’s Forward Block.
Halwa khatam ho chuka hey, daal bachi hey, chunacha jotioon main bat rahi hey.
Is Talat begining to suffer fro bankrupcy of ideas ?
What exactly is the purpose of this program ? With the gargantuan problems facing the country such as Food crisis, energy crisis. security problems etc etc and Talat is discussing the great importance of a tornado in a tea pot !
Let us get this right-
This is the same Kashmala Tariq who came to New York alongwith the 2 other cronies of Musharraf -
( Nasim Ashraf and Barrister Saif )-at the Asia Society forum to defend Musharraf’s NOV 3rd martial law and tried to justify his sacking of the judges while severely leveling FALSE accusations against the chief justice -( Iftikhar)- She has been appointed by the Choudhries without any merit (except perhaps for a big mouth) for her present seat and she is concerned about LEGITIMACY !
And Talat is talking about THIS !
Ham peh Ilzaam to vaisay bhi hai, aisay bhi sahi
naam.. bad naam to vaisay bhi hai.. hmm hmmm hmm hmmm hmm
Any bets on who Kashmala Tariq is banging these days? Anyone got any doubts she might be going for the title of “first lady (in waiting?)”
Now you know why Kala KaTTa was screaming like a stuck pig the other day?
Khaled Maqbool to Moshe Kutyaan:
“This is the end….
MY ONLEEEEEE FRIEND! The EHEND!!”
“Good Night!”
I think Talat is exposing the craven opportunism that is the basic “quality” of these Q people. I think this is a pertinent debate. This has to be done for the record.
KASHAMAL BIBI,
you openly defended mush’s extra constitutional acts in america .you never ever condemned shaukat aziz while you were in govt.
you never said a word about pmlq until you are in opposition.
learn a lesson or two from kabir wasti or khakwaani if you really want to project yourself as an honest politician.
Anybody got the link to the “appearance” by this new convert to democracy and rule of law?
Here it is the link to Kashmala “KhaTmal” Tariq and “Barrister” Saif’s lies and propaganda that hey peddlend less than 5 months ago
http://www.asiasociety.org/resources/pakistan_113007.html
What a fool she looks like talking about the judiciary and the rule of law..
i cant stop my laugh….talat you have got great sense of humour
when Riaz Lota was saing that a leader should be “cool minded, with excellent past who can can take everybody on board etc etc” talat said
“aisa leader to order par banwana paray ga”
great ……..
these are all Lotas with no dignity
This Riaz Fitna was the one who became biggest lota alongwith Nazar Wattoo in 1993 when they left PML (N) and joined hand with establishment Junijo League ……….these people are shameless
y kashmala tariq is given so much space on media now a days ? capiltal talk left right live with talat she is all there whole week?
the b*tch starts at minute 36 ..
These shameless people were sitting there defending the sacking of judges (khaTmala attacks Ramday, Iftikhar and Aitezaz 41:00 )
…kashmala ..hmmm….watch out for this one…..
I love Fatiana’s hair.
Totally bouffant, puff, 80s Bushra Ansari style…I am sure he is wearing white leather Ferragamo shoes.
Gotta respect a man who knows how to dress and groom himself…Forget metrosexual, here’s retrosexual….
Hey Phatiana! …The 80s called!!! They want their hairstyle back….
People like Kashmala think that people have short memories and that they have forgotten what she had said in the US while defending the MoFu Moshe. If PML-Q had won more seats and were in the government, she would have had stuck to the same pro-Moshe stance.
I like the way Talat polietly humiliated these lotas.
First of all I have not much respect for most of the PML-Q MNAs – because of there contribution and support towards dictatorship Pakistan suffer a lot. But still my guess is behind all this is PLM-N. I think they are using tactics to abolish PML-Q.
Fatyana-Kashmala Gang is the biggest losers & LOTAS of present days. Kashmala use TI, Mianh Waheed and then Hamyanu Akhtar for footing step, although she is educated from LSE, England but unfortunately so far she proved not more then educated prostitute or whatever but not decent… Who she is using to enter into PPP or PML-N is still not open (!)
Anyway Talat did wonderful to expose them
@TK
I wrote this for you in a previous Capital Talk (March 27) comments, which went largely unnoticed; I cannot help copying it here again:
” I usually read your comments with interest and whether or not I agree with them, they are usually reasonably well founded. You do not have to, however, lower yourself while criticising others. Whatever your point is, makes its way through to most people even if said in a more decent and graceful manner. Regardless the fact that I too feel a sense of hyporcisy in Kashmala’s stance (despite the fact I clearly remember her complaining about the same thing in Ayaz Amir’s show long time ago that in her party (Q) decisions are not taken democratically and they are never consulted about anything), and feel a strong revulsion against her comments, I honestly feel that your remarks about her are totally third-class and clearly out of line; I really do not expect that language from otherwise a reasonable person like you (or anyone else for that matter). Your opening remark in Focus with Faeza is not very pleasing either (not that you remarks about Musharaf are very classy). Please leave this environment clean enough to allow the ladies from noble families to play their role without fearing such sleazy public comments. You do not know any of them good enough to be able to justify your comments, socially, morally or Islamically. I hope I made my point without offending you, which is surely not my intention
. ”
I hope we can use a little respect regardless of our personal opinions and likings/dislike …. and that you will not try to somehow justify your comments.
Kind Regards!
Sarosh
shimatoree—you said it! My sentiments exactly. To top it all off, she is dumber than a bimbo! Always fails to impress even in the slightest. With all the other bright women around, I cannot understand the obsession with her.
Food for thought TK……
i second the recommendations by Sarosh. i mentioned before that there are women here. and if we do want them to take some form of interest in gaining political awareness if not in practical politics it self the least we can do is provide them with a forum where they can feel comfortable and not objectified. i mean hell since our beloved zia ul haq no woman in the country can claim to not feel objectified on the street, atleast leave this website clean
@sarosh
kashmala belongs to the clan which has made all those martial laws and illegitimatacy in this country possible. Had there been not so many of the kind we wudn’t ave had suffered so much ..
there is no harm in pointing out the ppl like her who r surely despicable. as a matter of fact we must use derigatory words for ppl like kashmala or otherwise all these lotas like her , sher afgan , faisal saleh hayat etc are considered respectable even after such horrendous acts.
i doubt if u r related to her personally tht u r speakin so much in her favour. besides tk’s opinion is not only his but can be called da collective opinion of all those who can distinguish between the right and the wrong.
@Sarosh: Well I don’t need to explain a single dang thing.. so don’t expect me to defend it… and even if I tried, I don’t think I’d be able to reach the altitudes that your high horse seems to be traversing at the moment.
My apologies to the “noble” ladies who find it worthwhile to hang out at pkpolitics.
TooTi kamar na unKi shab-e vaSl jojh say
rang-e Hinaa say jink-i kalai utar gai’e
(nuff said on that account).
Please don’t expect any “classy” comments from me regarding the likes of Moshe, KhaTmala and others of their ilk. The least they deserve is a treatment as vulgar as possible as this is an indication of their worth in my personal opinion. I do not care for them enough to bother being creative in my criticisms. Also, you don’t have to read it.. you see TK.. you move right along. As I do with certain people’s posts (mostly religious a$$es whose pomposity knows no bounds).
cheers.
@ Marlboro
my dear friend who likes cigarttes (much like me)
thats not the point de grade her without losing your own dignity and without turning this place into the surroundings of Cuckoos cafe(i hope you know where that is)
this is a place where women visit as well. i hate her i absoloutly do check her profile on wikipedia and youll see how many times she has switched sides and how many fake claims she has made. and she may be a slag but my dear sir, must we use words like Banged,bimbo TATTAY CHUK FAQEER etc.
would you like the use of those words in front of your mother/sister/wife/girlfriend.
and i am not ashamed to admit that i wont and just for the record my family members do visit this site
@admin
do you know how can I watch AAJ tv on jump tv or I need subscription for this as well.
thanxxxxxxxxxxx
Kutimala started her political career as a member of Tehreek Insaf(unfortunately)in london when she was doing her LLM but reached the real heights by becoming the keep of Mian Waheed(Ex MNA) who also gifted her a Pajero and later on when she became a slut of Hamyon Akhtar Rehman,Mian Waheed entered her home with a gun and she launched a FIR against him because he took his Pajero back after the discontinuation of her services.Later she became the blue eyed of Busharaf because of her deep mouth….ooops sorry big mouth.She is the ugly face of our politics and I sincerely pray that elements like her are uprooted from our political scene forever.
I agree to dr about his comments on Kutimala.And the most encouraging thing is the youth is vigilant and is keeping their eyes open.We must realize,today if We hv come out our country for our careers,that is because of these traitors.All Motherfk___Mazarais,Lagharis,and many others used to serve the Goras’s dogs.They even offered their daughters and wives to them.They betrayed Us.They betrayed Our forefathers.They betrayed this soil.And today they claim to be the Gods of Our land.Yah,Ours Fellas.Our great grand fathers shed their blood not theirs’.Its shame for Us,We not raising Our hands to their heads.Quran says”O believers,always stand upfront to the cruel lord’
i cant forget that statement from Kutimala when she urged Musharraf not to release lawyers and civil society members from jails, when police arrested them after emergency and tortured them.. she also added that lawyers and civil society members deserve this treatment….
so Ms. Kutimala we have very long memory and now you cannot make people fool by saying “independence of judiciary”
if people remember that black day 12th may.. mush was dancing on dead bodies by celebrating in islamabad and this slut was standing with Mush and was overjoyed with the performnace of MQM goons in karachi…..
shame on you b .tch
I remember a funny incident where Kashmala Tariq was trying to taunt Hafiz Hussain Ahmad. She said: ‘Opposition doesn’t let us work and start beating DHOOL’ She again mentioned Tabla. She was referring to desk beating.
Hafiz Hussain Ahmad said ‘This is our parliamentary right to beat assembly desks. I dont know the FAMILY Background of this BB because she mentions Dhool and Tabla’. He further said ‘I don’t know what channel this BB used to get into parliament. we were elected by the people’
Hafiz should know that she used BACK channel.
These people are just desperate. They are used to the politics of patronage. Now since their chief patron is in trouble, they dont know how to play their cards and stay in politics. They can see that their future is bleak. So they are doing these funny things. Kishmala is more unintelligent than I anticipated.
lolzzzzzzz@ K U T I M A L A Tariq..
hahhahahhaha this name suits dis trull real well.
@sleepingnation
Oh really?did she urge Busharraf not to release…..I mean lawyers.When?
Ms. K’mala seems to be extraordinarily insincere. It was hideous of her to do Mush’s dirty propoganda in samandarpar after the emergency was enforced.
She and Mushahid Hussain appear to be chameleons of a unique variety.
Anyone know her background?
There is something just not right about the person.
kinda sad that even LSE did not help … BTW … did the jeep saga got settled? The other day there was a picture in daily express …. much appreciated
Just wanted to add that she was also a passanger in a car accident where a drunk driver hit anotherone and a 2 months old child was killed.The driver of the car was Faisal who is the owner of Niralla sweets and was drunk and was enj….ying the copany of Kutimala,when the incident took place(2007)
Dear ppl like TK and dr..
I am a very regular visitor of this website and being following it for a long time. Never had the reason to register till today. I will strongly back Sarosh and Rawk in saying that one should observe decency while posting comments on these forums. If you want to say something really really bad about anyone, kindly do that in private. Though it might suit your level of decency but it doesnt suit us.
Thanks
Hamza
Talat Hussain very intelligently exposed the hypocrisy of these lotas. Q-League will become irrelevant very soon.
@marlboro and party
>> In fact we must use derogatory words for ppl like ….
I read it with a subtle amazement that how were you going to complete this argument on moral, ethical or religious grounds, but then I realised I was mistaken; It is democracy that we all champion and while you are so many in favour of the proud sleezy remarks, how dare morals or religion jump into it. Afterall, with His oneness, God has only one vote so you have a higher right to define and redefine what ‘should’ and ‘must’ be done, not Him. In fact, now thinking of it, Prophet (S.A.W) should have also used the same obscene language against his opponents (or tackier if we speak on merit); bad that He could not consult your ‘collective opinion’ …. but how could He? .. .afterall religious guys are too pompous to regard this righteous group of democrates who can always tell between the right and the wrong (or failing that, redefine it!) — I am so proud of you my nation — let us take this opportunity to pass an amendment to the old pompous Quran etc. as well; their teachings are now too old to be right too
….
There you go TK … now you can add another name to your list of worthless bloggers
Kind Regards!
Sarosh
@admin,
I am really loving your moderation policy man … I heard dog is a filtered word —- the cheesy language used on this page is obviously less profane than that … gives this site a real classy look … great!!
/S
Here is a treat for you guies……
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc316/pakikaki/politician/kashmala_tariq_omg_nipples_001.jpg
Mr. Hamza / Sarosh
Forums such as these can never be totally, clinically sterile. Let’s not get all queasy and indignant just because Dr. and TK have expressed their views in the manner they chose to. We come from a country where leaders and characters like Ms Tariq have contributed to the destruction of the institutions of Pakistan collectively. These are very grave matters and here you are getting all flustered by a few comments. If the politicians and generals’ insincerity is being exposed, so be it. What goes around comes around my dear man.
Relax.
@sarosh/Hamza
This is all true.Can you guies ingest it?
These power hungry,megallomaniac women like kutimala deserve no respect.
To the pkTaliban:
Kisch Mein Tuchus!
For those who are Interested……and want to go to bilo day kar…Kutimal’s address and phone number is
C-4 Officers Colony, Zarrar Shaheed Road, Lahore Cantt. 042- 6670333. 0300-5155793.
News for everybody…Mr Hamza has bought this website.
LSE?!! Someone mentioned she’ d been there….i hope the L is Lahore and not London.
Am sending back any of my qualifications earned there with immediate effect.
@Kingarthurll
I really wont like to prolong this debate, however, just a quick comment that having bigger problems does not mean that also discouraging smaller problems (according to your definition) is not right anymore. If the wrong-doings of these leaders and characters are always criticised and opposed then there is no ground to discourage other issues.
Besides, I do not give a damn about the profane language used by Abu-Jahal, but had Prophet (S.A.W) or Sahaba used the same language, I would not be able to keep my head high anymore and they would no more have the same status to me. I hope you got my point; I shall love to see at least the ‘right’ side principly and morally right, at least to the basic level.
And by the way, these little things define your moral and characteristic standing, which often defines what you elicit from this life, and much more at a national level; these are like roots — hidden, often small, often ignored, do not add to the apparent height of a tree — but without which you cannot stand tall, at least in the absolute terms. I shall rest my case here.
Kind Regards!
Sarosh
@Sarosh: I really don’t give a sh!t.. it’s not moral/religious/blah-blah issue. It’s a freedom of speech issue. Now you’ve dragged God and Prophet into it.. so that is admission that you feel against the wall.. that is not my intent..
I don’t really care either way.. I will say things in a manner I find suitable at any given moment.. it just illustrates what I’m feeling/thinking about an issue at that time.. don’t take it so seriously.. no one reads my posts anyways. I’m just a jacka$$ on the internets.. like millions others.. and the beauty of it is.. you can ignore those you consider douchebags.. just don’t get all suffocating and preachy and stuff..
please.
Free version added.
Admin
Sarosh has bought 50%shares of PK politics from Mr Hamza.Congrats.
@TK
Nah … my God’s role is slightly more than only jumping in when I feel pressed against the wall …. the reason to bring God and Prophet in was just to find a convenient point of agreement to draw the arguments from …. you could simply tell me you dont believe in that ‘stuff’ and I would change the line of my arguments to more logical than Islamic/blah blah —– sorry for making you feel uncomfortable anyways
Kind Regards!
Sarosh
@TK
BTW did you notice all those defenders of Khatmala
no wonder q-league is breaking. If people has to stop you after just watching her on TV, imagine whats going in mind of all those Q-league MNAss and MPAss.
Sarosh, my point is that if you get disturbed by such commentary you perhaps are too faint-hearted to take to the such forums. Squeaky-clean.com may be more appropriate. The contextual backdrop to the commentary you read just isn’t that ultra-goody goody. Pakistan today, after almost a decade of Mighty Musharaf, isn’t a place for the faint hearted either.
I really don’t want to comment on religious appropriateness etc. To bring holy figures into a discussion on pkpolitics is a bit much.
@kingarthurll
Interesting … God sent those holy figures to the darkest parts of the world in the darkest times, but pkpolitics is a bit much for them
; but yes, I have the idea .. they shouldn’t be just wandering here and there disturbing us when they have mosques to live in (unfortunately most of those have also been occupied by mullahs, so nowhere to go for poor holly figures) ….
I am not disturbed dude; I am just sharing my opinion like everyone else — what do you call it? … yeah … freedom of speech buddy
Just an idea for God though (courtesy of kingarthurII) … from history I could see that prophets used to get really disturbed by the behaviour of people in response to their teachings because maybe they were too faint hearted as well … how about sending any more of such personalities to Squeaky-clean.com as well instead of places like Middle-east and Africa in those days?
…… Dont take me wrong please; its just a lighthearted comment that I could not help 
… not being all preechy anymore at all .. I have rested my case already …
Kind Regards!
Sarosh
@Sarosh
Brother I agree with what you have said. Regardless of the actions of the persons involved, one must never stoop to the level of the unbelievers. Chastity of discourse must never be sacrificed at the altar of the quality of ideas. TK says he believes in freedom of expression. I say we should have freedom FROM expression from the likes of TK and other benighted rejectors of God. But after all, these are still ideas.
What are ideas anyway? Same wine in new bottles. The eternal truths have already been revealed in the Quran and all subsequent ideas held by any human being after 632 AD fall into two categories: Those from Quran and those NOT from Quran…As we believe all good ideas come from the Quran, there can NEVER be any good ideas that are outside the Quran. Can there? That’s what I tell myself when I need to hold my head high…
I am sorry, I am not very articulate I feel very emotional about this. All I want to say is, we should always try to use the language and manners of the Sahaba. That’s why we are taught to say Asalamo Alikum (you are in my list) and Allah Hafiz. But there is a problem. Lots of time people with questionable faith try to skip Allah in the Bismillah and we have Fiaza Dawood who says BismaRrahmanaRaheem…Other people say waYesaam instead of Walikum Salam waRamatullahi waBarakatoohoo….That is just not acceptable. Even our language is a hybrid of Hindi which we learnt after living 1000 years with the Hindus (like customs of Basant, Jahaiz, Mehndi etc) We should try to unlearn bad habits like dirty language (gandi zabaan), bad manners and the wrong UnIslamic language. We need to seperate our language from Hindi and move it more towards Arabic.
So, the rest of this post will be in Hybrid Arbi.
Far Gad’s sake, wa-Allah-i, that TK and other al-ghaddar-an, al-fitnatoon are busy stealing the al-thunder of al-Islam. O what a munafiq-oon! Disfortunately they liketh only shayyatoon. Al-though this be paradise of West yet I care not to dwell in it al-ways and forever-oon. Sendeth me back to the land of the great king, amir-ul-momineen, parween and nasreen, ladder of the faithful, khadim al-haramain sharifain and the laltain.
My al-Ikhwan at pkpolitics websight, you maybe living thinking (soch rahe hongay) why I am sometimes opening mouth and ispeaking and sometimes quite. It is because every time I am doing heart’s talk (dil ki baat) Ghaddar godless Munafiq-oon are doing crying-washing (rona-dhona) about Demon-crazy…These al-Kafireen-e-Makkah run away from the mansion of al-Islam (zikr se door bhagte hain)…The minate the words are out of my mouth, I is deeply regret. Anger climb on face (ghussa charrh jata hai) of these sons of Abudllah Ibn Ubaye.
Ya Al-God! O refuse of the helplass! Do not al-forget about al-mbokhari. Halp him against bad ideas and darty, gandi zabaan ispeaking al-Kafiroon. Halpeth thy lowly al-sarvant to hold his al-Head high. Ya Al-Khuda! O protractor of the al-Majbooor! Halp al-morals of the Mussalmans. Fil Filasteen wal Balkan, Fi Kulli Makaan, Hum Sub Ka Pakistan…!!!
(Inspired by TFT)
yaar this is really funny now all i was saying was a little courtesy from the men with the colorful vocabulary.. thats it.. i dont know why religon is dragged every where.. mein bohat kamzor emaan waala banda huen or mein aeysay hi theek huen
Bokhari Sahib, sarcasm, sarcasm….drole …careful not to mock the faint-hearted though !
Mush is about to leave along with Bush.
PmlQ is orphan. pmlQ corrupts are in party leadership.
I hope there are great reforms in pmlQ.
@
dr.
after emergency when police arrested thousands of lawyers and start beating them brutally on streets …mush held a meeting of q lotas and kashmala was vocal supporter of Mush she urged Mush not to release lawyers otherwise they will become heros and she also added that lawyers and civil society members deserve this brutal treatment ..i think in November 2007 Newspapers one can find this statement from her as it was published in 2-3 papers……
@mbokhari
I thought we had a good long discussion at http://pkpolitics.com/2008/03/22/begam-nawazish-nusrat-mushtaq/ already to understand each other’s point of views pretty clearly and we were quite OK with it without a hint of imposition. You can therefore save me those long pieces of creativity.
After enough sarcasm, let me be audacious enough do some straight talking:
KingArthurII: I wonder if you have to be actually lion-hearted to use the obscene or tacky street language, which is often considered to be an act of a helpless or frightened coward. Maybe a good definition of ‘faint-hearted’ is the one who does not have courage to say unpopular things, fearing the potential opposition, despite all the reason available; someone who follows the group dynamics and is only good enough to clap behind a crowd.
Rawk: Religion is dragged everywhere because that is what religion (or at least Deen) is supposed to do; guide your steps everywehre. mbokhari’s case is different because he is still swinging on the bounds of belief/disbelief and does not have courage to decide who he is despite all his logical thinking, but what is the state of belief of the rest of us? Why are we so uptight about Islam or any religion? I do not mind if one does not believe and I can shape my arguments differently in that case (none of my colleagues does, and we go along pretty well), but one should decide if he/she does or not for once, and stop living the life of a confused trans. You cannot have it both ways; stop believing or start accepting what it says.
It is not just an issue of bad language, but some of you guys are even throwing huge blind allegations of violation of hudood against somebody you do not know as well, and dr is trying to prove it using totally pointless photographs. Can anyone of you prove these accusations in any court of the world? Will you be able to back these with enough evidence or even certainty when it comes back to you? If you champion freedom of speech so aggressively, you should be happy to see similar public accusation on character of your own near and dears in the name of the freedom of speech.
Crossing the limits of reason is all that revolts me against PML(Q) and I shall definitely not endorse it by Anyone against Anyone including PML(Q). (You may have so much genuinely against her that you should not need to be unreasonable or cheap in her opposition anyways). If you do not agree, then its your right, and at the end of the day you can attribute my opinion to the ‘Freedom of speech’ as well, so why get disturbed?
Kind Regards!
Sarosh
@dr
“For those who are Interested……”
Sorry I can’t afford it …(Shoot! and I live so close by!)
and as I have mentioned already a couple of times, despite my thoughts about it, I only brought in religion to find a convenient point of agreement to draw the arguments from. Feel free to disagree on reason otherwise (i.e. on nonreligious grounds) if you have some except that incessant, ill-defined mantra of the freedom of speech.
@Hussain
“…oday if We hv come out our country for our careers,that is because of these traitors.All Motherfk___Mazarais,Lagharis,and many others used to serve the Goras’s dogs.They even offered their daughters and wives to them.They betrayed Us.They betrayed Our forefathers.They betrayed this soil.”
Being one from one of those “All Motherfk” tribes, let’s just keep things in perspective here. Don’t blame the tribe for the “sardar” imposed on them by the Goras just like we don’t blame all Pakistanis for the Mush imposed on you by the very same people. We have suffered under them much more — and directly — and for a lot longer so shed your tears elsewhere. I do find it interesting you would use Kashmala’s words “Mazarais,Lagharis” but left out “Bazaris” to complete the quote. Any particular reason?
Do keep in mind “Mazarais,Lagharis” are pretty much history (at least for now). It’s “Bazaris” you need to keep an eye on now.
tauba tauba kitni dadhi cheez hai yeh Kashmaila bibi..would’nt like to be her enemy..ufff! I dont know much about her except when I saw her defending Mush and the govt on these very programmes..not once had she said any of the stuff she is now spouting out…thali ka baingan!
@Sarosh
Iqbal said, Acha hai dil kay pass rahay pasbanay Aqal / Lakin kabhi kabhi issay tanha bhi chor day…;’-)
I was just having some fun…hehe…Of course you understand no offense meant…I pity the people who are born without a sense of humor….
thankyou TK for giving the link to the Asia society…It’s really a good,informative website. I cannot believe Kashmaila and Saif defending Mush especially regarding the Chief Justice so blatantly only 5 months ago…mind boggling! koi deen iman nahin hai in logoon ka..
@Sarosh:
Who exactly died and made YOU champion of the rights of “noble ladies” alongwith the head of the bureaue of “vice & virtue” on pkpolitics?… Strong language isn’t just offensive to “noble ladies” it is (or ought to be) offensive to everyone. Offensive language is used to jarr yer fuQQen mind. For you to assume it is offensive only to ladies is Sexist and shows the different boxes that you put these genders in (mentally at least).
You are making sexist claims about the rights of “noble ladies” and assuming people are of a certain religions? It has nothing to do with a “common point of reference” . The sad thing is that you felt against the wall because 3 or 4 people started opposing your view. Do I support publishing someones phone number on the net? NO. Does that bother you? OH NUHOO! As long as human anatomy is not mentioned.. You are JESS FINE!
Don’t make me quote some of the colorful language that the prophet and the sahaba themselves used. Oh wait! I can’t.. because punk-a$$ faux-polite dillweeds like pkTaliban have made sure over the centureis we don’t get the see the real colorful language that your holy-cows used in their daily lives.
You want some colorful language that will put Tab’an Khamosh to shame? Go pick up some volume of Hadith and read the manner and mode of the reproduction of Shayaateen
Oh and don’t forget to read the Quran where it talks about women being your “land” in whcih you can “enter” from the “front” or from the “back”.. (as long as you do not transgress the laws of God — ie; NO ANAL SEX WITH UR WIVES DUDES! )
Yes ladies and gentlemen.. “doggystyle” is okay with the creator, as long as you don’t put it in the pooper.
How’s that for freedom of speech?
And @dmin: I am really disappointed that the pkTaliban are able to suffocate freedom of expression on this forum because they drag God and prophet into every discussion! I’m sick of these hypocrites! Please don’t be intimidated by these Khilafah Turtles.
“violation of hudood” eh?
FIGG! I can’t wait for the FIGGING STONING! FOR FIG’S SAKE!
Is that clean and nutritious enough for pkTaliban?
@TK
Now see this is where I have to disagree with you. I rather like to see people to argue a point without resorting to Quran and Prophet. The moment some one mentions God or Prophet, then we treading dangerous waters. As there is no win for argument either way. Now these pkTaliban will be all over you, but you also could have proved your point without resorting to Quran.
@all
I think it is time to calm down instead of escalating the whole issue.
/Saqib
@econfused & @Saqib: OK.. I’ll shut up..
@sam: “tauba tauba kitni dadhi cheez hai yeh Kashmaila bibi..would’nt like to be her enemy..ufff!”
hehehe.. yeah.. especially when she winces and exposes her canines like an agressive babboon… yeh kisi bhi Q-leegi loTay kaa pittaa paani karnay kay liye shayad kaafi hai!
@Tk
wonder if TK stands for ‘Tika Kay”…haha. the PKtaliban do need to be countered..do not go gentle into the good night…rage rage against the dying of the light’
if you let them decide what is taboo and what is not…they have already won. Has no one heard of ‘Ijtihad’
i advise you to rage on…with minor adjustments in word choices
but then what does someone who knows nothing…know .
TK: that diatribe was uncalled for. You are behaving immaturely If Mr. Sarosh is hypersensitive and believes he has the monopoly on piety so be it. But you really don’t need to make flippant remarks about the Holy Quran. Sorry but this is in terribly poor taste and offends many of us, regardless of how liberal or conservative we may – or may not – be. Your facetious references to Ayaat are out of context and ill-translated. Poor show.
@mbokhari
@TK
Wow … you sound very settled and calm — just wonder how you react when you feel pushed against the wall
. Anyhow:
- Where did I exactly say that strong language is only offensive to noble ladies? In the context, it is just what your comments are geared towards. You are presuming / imagining a lot I can see. Regardless however, obvious behavioural differences across genders in Pakistani society are also a fact and could advocate very well against your allegations anyways.
- If I had felt pushed against the wall then maybe I would be screaming at the top of my voice as well, as you are doing. Or maybe I would just run away — anything, but would not try to present my case audaciously with reasonable arguments (and a bunch of smiles here and there
). If it makes you feel better, however, to imagine otherwise, then I dont mind the wall that much either.
- When we say/write anything publicly, we definitely come ahead with some presumptions based on the usual background of the common audience / readers, and I never denied that. I actually repeatedly said that please let me know if you did not belong to the majority and I should change the mode of my arguments; maybe you have started ignoring my post already
… good for your health.
- You are definitely not looking for reason here, but just to set the record straight, your information about the Islamic references you presented and the translation / interpretation thereof seems pretty much lacking and misguided. I am sure you are not, but please do let me know if you are interested and I shall try to help you verify the facts. Regardless, however, your point is meaningless as my comments were geared towards the discouragement of out of reason and false accusations and the use of vulgar language for the sake of vulgarity. If you talked the truth or if we were intellectually discussing a serious subject that ‘required’ the use of generally taboo language (e.g. the marital relations, sexual crimes etc.), then I would have myself participated without any objection.
- Who is this PkTaliban guy by the way? The most part of my experience of polite and decent language was in UK when I was studying in Oxford Uni or now working in Microsoft etc. My colleagues can clearly not be labelled as PkTaliban but they certainly know more about decent, objective discussions without being as uptight about moral/religious norms and values, or concious about this being a talibanisation conspiracy, as you are.
- Hypocrites? :-S …. may be a vocabulary problem … please let me help you: http://dictionary.cambridge.org
….. please try to apply the definition in the context.
- the bottom line … relax dear …. it happens sometimes that one does not have a reason to argue with … shouting in such situations is not good for anything … you can always use your right to remain silent. Ohh please — not your freedom of speech or sexist cliches again … OK please have it your way … you have the freedom to SHOUT OUT LOUD.
@econfused
This is a very common and popular opinion that you are giving, however, this is still very subjective. I shall love to have an intellectual, objective and purposeful discussion on why or why not it is a good idea to resort to Quran. I am sure I shall gain from your point of view and may have a couple of points to offer myself too. The environment at the moment, however, does not seem rich or fertile enough for a sober intellectual discussion.
Kind Regards!
Sarosh
@TK
TK stands for Tab’an Khamoosh or Injections?
to TK
well done dude u r n8 tht bad afterall in comin up wid articulate points. specially the doggy style one ws quite pertinent and shud ave served a gud xample for talibans at pkpolitics. keep posting ur views i enjoyed ur comments and appreciate them . ur comments sure can b useful in settin aside dese talibans here
and dis sarosh is disgusting ist she drages quran n prophet in this conversations n now she is ostentiously tryin to tel she has studied frm oxford n works in microsoft …. as if sum body cares his b@lls. lolzz tk u keep up wid ur juicy arguments . they r much appreciated.
@Sarosh
Some snippets from your posts:
Well, isn’t that quite presumptuous of you to START with presuming that people you are addressing are Muslim? Who told you to assume that? Why would your argument be BASED on the other person’s religion?
I find this in exceedingly bad taste and bad form. Very impolite of you to assume what the state of my belief is, or to comment on it. My faith is my business or the Almighty’s. Nobody elses. As the immortal Tupac Shakur said, “Only God can judge me. Only God.”
Now having said that, I believe that you are good dude/dudette(?) and mean well. So, I am going to help you out. Here is how you should post your messages:
——————————–
#include
int main(void_TOTAL_VOID)
{
char Naame_e_Amaal;
printf(“State your religion\n”);
printf(“State your prisoner number\n”);
scanf(“%c”,&Naame_e_Amaal);
if (Naame_e_Amaal == Islam)
{
printf(“I will talk to you. I will tell you what is right/wrong. You are wrong.\n”);
printf(“See how easy that was?.\n”);
}
else
{
printf(“I have nothing meaningful to say so I’ll shut up and bide my time..\n”);
}
printf(“This is not a Khali Lifafah. It’s a high end Gucci Khali Lifafah.\n”);
printf(“P.S. I went to Oxford. Actually, Madrassa Oxfordiya lil Binaat wal Jinaat\n”);
return 0;
}
And for your future reference, I will tell you:
I change sects on a weekly basis. Last week I was a Bokonist Muslim. This week I am a Pastafarian Muslim.
All hail His Noodly Appendage!
So, what have you got to say now?
——————————————————
I’m a modern Muslim, digital and smoke-free; a Muslim for the millennium. A diversified, multi-cultural, post-modern deconstructionist; politically, religiously and ecologically incorrect Muslim.
I am a high-concept, low-profile, long-range ballistic Lifafah-buster. I take it slow, I go with the flow; I ride with the tide, I’ve got glide in my stride. I don’t snooze, so I don’t lose. I keep the pedal to the metal and the rubber on the road.
And George Carlin(r.a) is my hero ;’-)
[p.s.(r.a)=rest assured]
this pml-q is not even a party, it’s composed of all the jokers!! musharraf just gathered a bunch of lotas to create this so called party.
@mbokhari
Now your point about the presumptions; it is fair enough and maybe I should not presume anything, but just look at your code above: did you not presume that there is a library available that allows you printf and scanf and those in a particular syntax — this also implies your presumptions about a certain compiler and platform being used etc (or at least ANSI being followed)? Why did you not write these routines from scratch as well? Just because if possible you did not want to reinvent the wheel and used any potential / usual support available out there. Similar is my case; Will you deny the fact that majority of the population in Pakistan and almost everyone in this forum is Muslim? if yes, then why is it so bad to presume that, if it reduces the required amount of effort to craft the arguments? Islam is not an untouchable thing; it is a set of facts, rules and guidelines, and reasons thereof. If one believes in these set of rules, it means that there is a territory where he/she and I stand on the same page and I can draw my arguments from that set of beliefs (similar to C libraries/API, if you will), instead of constructing everything right from the scratch. There is nothing strange about this approach, and all of us follow it, except that others usually rely on other set of beliefs than Islam, e.g. democracy, fundamentals of logic, our cultural norms and the knowledge thereof etc.
As for an exceptional case, where the addressee does not believe in Islam, I am ready to go the extra mile (just like in case of a person who is not clear why democracy is a ‘good’ thing in the first place, you will have to devise your arguments in a more detailed fashion). I can only try to assure you that my respect for such a person does not and should not reduce at all either (So far I was actually relying on you to be my witness that my position and respectfullness towards you did not change at all, despite our extreme disagreements in our last debate on ‘Begam Nawazish Ali’ blog).
As for my comments about the status of your faith, I hope you understand that it was not meant to offend you at all. I am sorry but I am not ready to accept that I assumed anything here; I only repeated what you publicly said yourself in the other forum (“… areas where I tread cautiously, and on my toes. For it touches upon disbelief”) and it was not meant to be disrespectful at all. I extend an unconditional apology to you on this point if it hurt your feelings anyways.
Now coming back to the C routine you suggested, ignoring the syntax, semantics too are extremely unfair. Please just go through our previous discussion that I referred to earlier, or my posts above; do you really see me labelling others with right / wrong without presenting the reason for my opinions, and those too only about issues and values, not personalities? Are you not doing the same here, only in a more sarcastic manner and often in the opposite direction? The last two messages are not even dignifiable, with apologies; there are certain things which I only brought up to dissociate myself from the propagated mark of mullahyat — you can definitely try to exploit it however; it is your decision.
Kind Regards!
Sarosh
I am pkTALIBAN I keep telling these ladies to stay home.They have no business mixing with men and not covering their faces.If it was upto me they should get physical abuse.I don’t believe in verbal abuse.
Zia m, this ladies are muslim not hindu or christain that they should not mix with men. Prophet Muhammad first wife was a business woman.
She is rebellious should be treated accordingly.Check with your ulema you are misguided.
zia m are telling the whole world that Prophet Muhammad wife was rebellious. Hazrat Ayesha another wife of Prophet Muhammad wasChief of Staff of Army.
No i was talking about kashmala.
I do not see Kashmala as rebellious. She has a right to have here say. That right has been given to her by Allah. Just like when Hazrat Ayesa use here right.
Men has authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other and because they spend their wealth to maintain them.Good women are obedient,As for those from whom you fear disobedience,admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them.Then if they obey you take no further action against them.
God is High Supreme.
@ zia m
i hope you dad does that to your mother
and i hope your sister suffers the same from her husband
your disgusting.
according to you women are slaves. so please tell me my pro taliban friend why did Hazrat Aisha lead an army against Hazrat Ali
well? was she wrong to do so
@rawk
The quote from Zia M is Sura an-Nisa, verse 34.
I guess now you will have to stifle your instinctive reaction and say, “Oh ho, Now I see the error of my ways” and make appropriate noises. You see, you have just slipped outside the boundary of the circle of Islam (Islam ka Daira). Matter of fact, it is a powerful sixer, from leg-off, over the pavillion (raise hands like Bowden)…
So let me be the first to pronounce judgment on you:
Rawk, thou hast been found guilty of insulting the Noble Quran. In thy deviousness thou hast found it fitting to hurl abuse at the immutable Word of God, Most High.
And in so doing thou hast confined thy despicable soul to eternal damnation in the deepest depths of hell, to live and die and die again. Forever and ever more. May God has mercy on thy soul….
[Everybody, get your rocks, one hit at a time, aim for the head...Thank you and please join me later for refreshments at the Kabul KopaKabana...]
@Sarosh
Thanks for apologizing. You had hurt me feelers. It feels better now, merci beaucoup. I accept your apology.
In the first quote, by saying “reducing the required amount of effort”, you have acknowledged your intellectual laziness…Tut, tut, tut…Very bad tableegh….. Also, you have committed the gross impoliteness of offending Hindu, Parsi, Christian and Pastafarian Pakistanis by ignoring them.
It is very impractical even in real life to start discussions with, “Excuse me, are you Muslim? if yes, what type? Press 1 for moderate, press 2 for liberal, press 3 for barking mad…” Human beings are not PABX exchanges…Stop crafting your responses on the addressee’s personal relationship with the Almighty…It has nothing to do with you…
In the second quote you commit the blasphemy of equating a belief in Allah to a belief in democracy. Democracy (demon-crazy?) is not my God. Allah is my God, Most High…. Ma’az Allah. La 7aoula waLa Qu’atta illa Billah !!! How dare you? You have inflamed my religious passions….(Mere mazhabi jazbaat majrooh ho gaye hain) I demand satisfaction…immediately…
And one more thing…ignore the sarcasm, it is intended for people who are born with a sense of humor…
Why am I taking the effort to respond to you? It’s because your attitude is symptomatic of Mullahcracy in Pakistan and it bugs me…Please don’t write a very lengthy response…We are not going to resolve anything…Other than turning more people off from your brand of Islam…Which in your case must be counter-productive, unless of course if you are scoring points with the Holy One, upstairs (Ooper Waala)?
I thought Zia m was just having fun posting non-serious comments and I still think so, however, just to set the record straight, ‘Qawwam Alayha’ is an Arabic phrase which translates to The one responsible for maintenance, resources etc. The referred Ayat (4/34) is not even talking about husband and wife and only says as a general rule that providing living means and resources to women is the primary responsibility of men, so that women get the freehand to focus on their primary responsibilities and safeguard their potentialities (certainly not that they are not ‘allowed’ to work but that they do not ‘have’ to).
@mbokhari
you are clearly only having fun now (and so am I), so no, my reply will not be long at all
…. you very skillfully ignored that you also suffer from this intellectual laziness, or the next time I expect you to start your comments on politics from the very definition of democracy, its comparison with other systems, its benefits concluding why military intervention is a bad thing and then on to your more creative thoughts. For the record, I am not equating God with democracy (how did you get this really? :-S … you are creative man, i.e. create a lot yourself on top of what I actually said 
) but just presumptions of different beliefs. And just by the way, I believe Islam is more comparable to other systems in the world than other religions 
… yup .. you are allowed to go crazy on this. It may even give you a better chance to make less sloppy arguments / humour 
.
Kind Regards!
Sarosh
@Sarosh
Nice tafseer there, Mufassir Quran Saroshi bibi ;’-)
So is Quran explaining the relationship between boyfriends/girlfriends? Because evidently Quran is not talking about fathers/daughters or brothers/sisters… I ask Allah’s refuge from such Kufr!!! Dr Israr Ahmad in his exegesis on this ayah here (min 15-22) explains that the Quran is talking specifically about Husbands and Wives…It has been so understood down the ages from Prohpet Muhammad (saw) till you showed up…I hope Farhat Hashmi is not responsible for this gross perversion of Quran. Iqbal was right. “Khud nahiN badalte Quran badal dete haiN.”….tch, tch, tch….
Woe unto those who lie and hide Allah’s signs. Verily Allah is all-knowing, all-wise. For truly, Allah Almighty speaketh the Truth.
And please don’t launch into what ‘Qawwam alaya’ means. Neither you or I speak Fusa7 Arabic. Dr. Israr does. I’m sticking to his exegesis and will refer Rawk to this meaning of the Ayah. This is bigger than the Danish cartoons. This is, ostensibly, a Muslim spouting insults against Quran…
I am giving Rawk an ultimatum of 2 days to retract his blasphemy or else I will start tracing his ip.
[my placards are ready, I haven't shaved and my ghuTra is ironed]
Rawk you will pay, your 9/11 is on its way!!!
The blasphemy shall be avenged!!!
Bake the unbeliever!!!
Microwave the heretic!!!
The discussion here reminds me Dostevsky’s era in 19th century , when Russian youth was settling the question of existence of God , let me quote here interesting paragraph from Brothers Karamzov
Yes for real Pakistani youth question of superiority of Islam is first and foremost. Whatever they talk about democracy , rule of law , whether they are pro or con , it is the same question turned inside out.
I am not sure whether the Russian youth was able to settle this question however their divorce to the socialism and communism and embracing western democracy with capitalism means that they have reached to some conclusion.
It won’t be too long for us to reach to some conclusion whether right or wrong
@peja
From one big ole fanboy of Dostoyevsky to another, Raskolnikov lives!!!
But I think you are wrong about the nature of the conversation here. This conversation is between two types of Pakistanis. One type believes in rationality, questioning everything and challenging authority. This type understands what Socrates meant when he said, “Know Thyself” for to know oneself, one must question everything. I count myself among this thought-group.
On the other hand we have the Lifaafa Turtles. Poor souls, brainwashed from tender ages. They are like little sniveling grade-schoolers who have seen the answer at the end of the Maths book and are just trying to fudge the question into arriving at the “correct” answer. Failing that, they dry their tears, wipe their noses with their sleeves and TaDa! back to the struggle of squaring the circle. I pity them.
Here is a choice quote from an ideal specimen of a Stoneage Mutant Lifaafa Turtle:
(At 7.48am)
Now I know what it means when they say “Aqal pe matam karna”
Anybody who is also into Russian literature must see Woody Allen’s “Love and Death”. Its a hoot. A hodge-podge parody of the works of Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy and Turgenev. More specifically, Brothers Karamov and War & Peace…
Boris (Woody Allen) is one of 3 brothers (Karamazov) and when Napoloen invades, he conspires to murder him (Pierre Bezukhov/War&Peace)…He comes to a passed-out Napoleon:
Boris: If I don’t kill him he’ll make war all through Europe. But murder… What would Socrates say? All those Greeks were homosexuals. Boy, they must have had some wild parties. I bet they all took a house together in Crete for the summer. A: Socrates is a man. B: All men are mortal. C: All men are Socrates. Means all men are homosexuals. Heh… I’m not a homosexual. Once, some cossacks whisled at me. I, I have the kind of body that excites both persuasions. You know, some men are heterosexual and some men are bisexual and some men don’t think about sex at all, you know… they become lawyers.
The beginning clip
The ending clip
@mbokhari
Please stop quoting my statements partially to twist their meanings; your humour is no more funny if it starts promoting misunderstandings. I have clearly mentioned that the ayat specifies a general rule of the society that earning of the living and provision of resources to women is the primary responsibility of men; be it a father, brother, son or husband … the responsibility lies with the adult male members of the family. If a female is contributing, she is doing you a favour, which, should not be on the cost of the sacrifice of her primary responsibilities.
I tried but could not find anywhere in Quran that following Dr. Israr’s interpretations is a part of Islam; I respect his research and ideas, but do not follow him blindly, or anyone else for that matter. If you think this ayat has been understood the way you say, for ages since the Prophet (S.A.W) then you definitely need a lot more study than merely following one scholar of your choice, i.e. please follow your misapplied cliche of ‘question everything’, eh.
Secondly, I do not expect you to agree with me, but to be fair in your statements. The argument here was never about reasoning; TK never even started reasoning. It was just about the suitability of aimless usage of abusive and obscene language, which you are trying to twist to be within your comfort zone of your typical rants. You are more than welcome to argue on reason, as we did once before, and surely you did not think of me as a brainwashed lifafa turtle then … please go through it again to refresh your memory. Ironically enough, however, you have acted as one yourself trying to stamp Dr. Israr’s interpretation on everyone; be honest please.
And yes; please also stop presuming (wrong) about my gender
.
Kind Regards!
Sarosh
@Sarosh
“…you have acted as one yourself trying to stamp Dr. Israr’s interpretation on everyone…”
What’s the word, uh, yea…Sarcasm….Reductio ad Absurdum, Parody and….Irony…I was lampooning typical Lifaafa behavior…
Don’t take me too seriously..I am not out to change the world. However, I like to make fun of people who think they are out to change the world by putting a Khali Lifaafa on it.. And no, I don’t consider you to be one…
Oh man! is this still going on?
You know what this reminds me of? Fruitless, Bang-yer-head-on-the-friggin-wall discussions with Revomitist… Oh the incarnations the turtles have.. idhar Doobay, udhar niklay
@Sarosh: yes, I’d like your “interpretation” of the *cough* doggy ishtyle *cough* verses. Fire away (not literally!). I’m sure you know chapter and verse or shall I provide the coordinates?
And BTW, the (future) first caliph is on record having told someone to go suck Al-Lat’s “Cli7oris” or “Cun7″.. some body part…. I think it was right around the time of Fath’e Makkah. Maybe you can ask the pkTaliban’s only ministry, Vice & Virtue or just make some feeble excuse up. This was not the only instance.. there was some quite colorful language used by those currently considered “Pink Unicorns with shiny flowing silken manes” .. buahahahahah!
@mbokhari: pearls before swine my frined… why doeth thou waste yer mojo thus ma man? kaTTooN ko za’afrani cha’i pilaany say kuch nahiN hogaa bhayyaa! yeh kaTTay hi rahenGay!
(oh and that movie.. sounds hilarious.. the clip you posted reminded me of Tarkovsky’s “Andrei Rublev”(?) and its cinematography.)
@Sarosh
Most of us stay with the belief system they are born in.I have lot of respect for people who use reason and opt for the best faith they can find.I have no doubt Islam is the best religion around.I just believe in a Creator and am agnostic as for the religions are concerned.My Creator is not a narrow minded Being who will throw every non believer in hell.
Religions are based on mythology and evolved over a time Islam being the latest and most sensible one but let us not forget it was revealed some 1400 years ago .
There is a verse in Quran stating “We have never sent a prophet unto a nation unless he speaks their language.”
There have been great Muslim scholars who believed in reason likes of Ibn Rushd who were declared heretics that is why we are in turmoil today.
@TK
Welcome back. Thought you had gone off the deep end and joined Optimist. You should have been there with me, peja and ad min. We had a very good discussion. Wonder when is he gonna post it…
About the Hadith you mentioned, I recall reading something like this. I think it was at the time of Sulah Hudaibiya. One of the kuffar had objected to the phrase “Muhammad, Prophet of God” and thats when one of the Sahaba (Abubakar, Umar?) said something like, and I am paraphrasing the exact Urdu sentence structure, “Why you little!!! Soft part of woman of your mother!!!”
I did not mention it since I assumed that Sarosh was a Burqafied Sista, you know the Ninja, given his decency jihad. Just did not want to be indelicate.
@mbokahri: haha thanks bro! naah! it was a beautiful sunny saturday and I were out and about.. I was actually looking forward to our little chat.. but I don’t think it would be fair to the team and adm1n if I were to insist on freedom of whatever and got a bunch of burqa-brigadiers after him and pkPolitics on my account.. just better to.. you know.. stay Khamosh (for once).. hehehe.. because I’m not about to stop swearing whenever I please (on or off record).
Re: the incident and hadith etc, I specifically mentioned these things, firstly because they are part of our history, and secondly because we need to break some of these BS holy cows that everyone seems to construct out of thin air. For me, the only thing that matters is the message (if at all), everything and everyone else is just other human beings.. they f4rt, they they fornikate, they were born, they bled, they defecated and they died just like the rest of us. And AFAIAC, men and women are equal.. so why should I give any special treatment to women over men? … we’re all just animals.. part of the same thread. some of us have doo-doo’s and some have hoo-haa’s .. not a big difference.
Prophet Muhammad first marriage with Bibi khadijah was fruit of love affair that mean in today world they were boyfriend and girlfriend before becoming Husband and wife.
What many people to not understand is that prophet Muhammad was a morden man of his time. so if he would be leaving in todays world the would be more modern than Mr. Bush or any western leader. He would definatly not follow religion of Wahabism.
kinnare
The meaning of “boyfriend and girlfriend” is having the same relationship as husban & wife carries in general with the only difference of being not declared husband & wife in the law of their ststes.
I think you live in states too so you better know what is the difference between simple friend & girl/boy friend, so do take care while you are using the words from one to another culture.
@Zia m
I concur with most of the things you said, including the theocratic frenzies and impediments we experienced, and the fate of non-believers, which are IMO, both, logical and also endorsed in Quran. Your comments about religions being ‘based’ on mythology do not add up however, if on the other hand you tend to believe that (at least some) religions are a work of God; it can only be either of these two at one time. I have studied many religions and found many great things there, however, Islam is unique in the sense (among many others) that its prime scripture (Quran) is historically (not just based on mere faith) unchanged; the rest of the resources however (Ahadith) have been heavily distorted which often causes misunderstandings and asks for a very careful elicitation of the facts.
As for TK’s other point, I believe we are confusing a couple of different things together here. I initially objected on two different things:
1- Unnecessary usage of abusive, indecent and obscene language, when the actual message can be put across without any loss of meanings otherwise.
2- False or speculative allegations against somebody, and / or disrespect beyond reason / limit. Here we also need to keep in mind the actual behavioural norms of our society beyond pure theories.
I hope we all have enough reason already to know why both of these are considered wrong practices, not only religiously but also on social basis. I oppose these things on principle and reasons, regardless of who did what (excluding the examples of Prophet (S.A.W) for obvious reasons, but not without questioning for sure). As for the referred rawayat, I have to say a couple of things here:
- As I already mentioned, we need to be very careful about eliciting the facts from any other source than Quran for the given reasons (now I am talking in purely factual manner, not faith). The available number of reported distinct Rawayahs exceeds one million which is hugely unrealistic. Many incidents have been reported, till very recent times, where Ahadith were changed, tailored or even crafted to suit a certain faith or to oppose it. This is a huge subject and I can actually give you hundreds of examples where the ahadith contradict with each other as well as Quran; it is actually hard to sift these to find the ones which comply and conform with Quran. Quran on the other hand is very consistent and clear in its message and speaks noticeably different language than most ahadith (not all). The specified rawayat is actually negligible in comparison to some others which give me a shiver down my spine. To me, the acid test is their compliance with Quran, which says clearly that it interprets some of its verses with the help of other verses, constructing a very lucid message.
- Even if you insist that the referred rawayat is sahi (which is not very plausible), it does not change anything. If one of the sahabas did something wrong, it does not make it right and I would oppose him on this with equal force. Sahabas were still humans and made mistakes which is no argument against the discouragement of wrong actions. Also dont forget that some of the sahabas were even called munafiq by Quran, which renders this argument totally meaningless. I believe in values, reasons and principles, not people. In addition to that, Quran also stresses on politeness and decent language in many verses, which is a more authentic reference of Islam’s position on this, instead of a random story.
Kind Regards!
Sarosh
Asif, What i have stated I fully stand behind it. In TN where I leave to be boy friend and girld does not been have to have sex. I am from Peshawar and had my marriage with girl who was my girl friend before I married her.
@Saros
I don’t think you are being honest with yourself if you consider killing of non-believers LOGICAL.
I am sorry.
kinnare
Either you are too naive or me, that what’s the difference between a simple friend & girl/boy friend?
I leave it upto the rest of audience living in europe & states to clarify the difference.
As I have travelled around the globe, my understanding with the concept of girl/boyfriend is that they are husband & wife with the only exception that their law does not consider them so until & unless they sign an agreement in which an important article is that upon seperation their assets would be divided equally. And theres no obligation on seperation from being a boy/girl friend by law.
Asif, you are taking the word on it legal point. whereas I am taking it to its romance. that where most muslim object. Which I disagree.
Sarosh I didn’t mention a ‘rawayat’, I mentioned the book itself. Way to weazle! but you won’t get off easy.
Also, no-one has given you or anyone else the right to become the danda-brigade of Sector F7 and start closing down the brothels of linguistic infamy. You have a right to object to what you consider obscene but you DO NOT have the right to infringe on MY rights to say what I feel is the appropriate mode and manner of discourse given the situation.
Patriotism is not the only and last refuge of the intellectually lazy and incompetent scoundrel. It would seem in our degenerate “Faux Islamic”, rather Islamo-Fetishist, world, God and Prophet are also the preferred refuge of these scoundrels.
If you bring God and Prophet into a discussion about obscenity and start pontificating about it.. you’ll be (because you CAN Be) brought face to face with the human reality of the religion you profess, and the book you dare to drag into this conversation.
Also, if you are (or consider yourself to be) one of the “noble ladies” then you should say it upfront.. otherwise, I will consider you (at best) an MQM-esque transvestite (they also have a tendency to use girlish nicks for some sick twisted reason)
Now, your easily offended sensibilities notwithstanding, let me re-cap the issue of the Ayat in Quran. Omar had sexual intercourse with his wife in the rear-entry position, then he freaked out and went to the prophet, and asked him specifically about it.. the Prophet (S) stayed quiet, and after a while the “ayaat” were transmitted.
I can understand the part regarading Umer can be characterized as “rawayaat” but to ignore the actual Aayat and pretend they are also rawayat (or they are some one of a million fake/contradicting ahadith) is intellectual dishonesty of the highest order. I posted a link to it in news & views.. feel free to clickthrough to it, everyone else has by now.
You brought god into it, I brought his word into it. deal with it and stop being intellectually dishonest by pretending the issue is “some contradicting rawayat”. Not that this is an excuse for obscenity (which, again, is not good or bad based on who hears it, but intrinscially so (if at all))
P.S. and please give your pompous high horse a pasture break.. it must be getting rather boring and tiresome, (for the poor horse that is.) Perhaps s/he could be named Asp-e-Akhfash? ;’-)
kinnare
Being girl/boyfriend, its verything including romance,legaly they are not husband & wife BUT socialy they are husband & wife.
I think it will make easier for you to understand that the words simple friends & girl/boy friends are altogether carry a different meaning in western society & boyfriend/girlfriend are supposed to have every kinna relationship in their society, they can live toghether, they can have kids, etc.
@TK
I cannot believe you are still going on and on about it. I have stopped reading and responding to @reviavlist comments. I have stopped paying attention to @sarosh also the moment he brought in Prophet and Quran and then he backed up his logic with oxford/micrsofot credentials.
I told you to stop discussing Quran/Hadith as it is a no win game. Keep your understanding faith with you
. You are just wasting bandwidth, as you were for revivalist.
@Zia m
Sorry for the misunderstanding dude … What I meant was that your statement:
“My Creator is not a narrow minded Being who will throw every non believer in hell.”
is both, logical and also endorsed by Quran, which specifies in many places that there are good people among non-Muslims too, who will be rewarded for their good deeds. And as for killings of the non-believers, I guess you have got the idea how strong I feel against that, while I am advocating that they even have a share in good reward
. In my earlier comments, I just listed the topics and said that I concurred with your stated thoughts on all these.
Kind Regards!
Sarosh
@TK
- Your opening statement is a strange argument. When I said ahadith have been added and distorted, did I mean in video games instead? of course the changes have been made in books and new books have been written all along. It is a fact agreed by all that there was no formal mechanism of documenting rawayaat during Prophet’s era and even Bukhari, supposedly the most authentic book of ahadith for obvious reasons, was written more than 2.5 centuries after Hijrat.
- Your second argument is also strange, that I can object but not infringe your rights … how exactly do you differentiate between the two on this forum and label what I did as infringement? If I can object, that is all what I did. Can I practically infringe your rights by just posting my opinions here?
- Your third statement is just an opinion which you have the right to, and for the forth one, I never stopped you from giving references from Quran here. I just humbly advocated my case in the reply, keeping it short. I welcome you to bring me face to face to whatever realities you like; I shall definitely present my opinion if I have an argument for those being less than real.
- Girlish nicks? :S
…. you are simply incredible bro … Sarosh is a persian name and is also used as a title to the Archangel Gabriel. Originally it is a male name, though also used by some females. Just google this name on the images page and see what ratio of male and female faces you find in the first 7, 8 pages.
- As for the story about Shaan-e-nuzool you mentioned, you will be disappointed to know that this is not the only one. There are at least 5, 6 different reported anecdotes about the ‘reason’ for this verse. What I say about Quran and these rawayats is simple and endorsed by most of the non-Muslim historians as well. The publication and collective hifz of Quran was begun as soon as the continual revelation started. Till Hazrat usman’s rule, the hand-written copies had been spread across many countries; some of the earlier copies can still be found in some museums today, and matched against the current text available. Ahadith, on the other hand were never documented and, as I mentioned, research work for Bukhari was started after more than 250 years of Hijra, i.e. when many generations had passed away and most ahadith were only available as people heard them from their forefathers. It is only natural that you can find all kind of contradicting material among ahadith now and many people used this opportunity to add a lot of rubbish there as well.
- I never said that the Ayat you quoted was also a rawayat … It is Sura-e-Baqra, verse 223 and I know it very well. I only did not reply to you on this because honestly I felt you were not looking for a serious discussion and analysis but just an excuse to prove that Quran also contains indecent discussions (which still does not actually advocate your use of obscene language and false accusations; you just had to attack in some way). If you insist, I can surely present my opinion on this; I have several points to make here and to keep it more structured, I shall dedicate my next post to it. Hope its fine with you.
Kind Regards!
Sarosh
For those who doesn’t know this site already , please checkout
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm
this will give you more ammunition for the battle
@TK,
Here you go (please be patient as I shall try to develope my argument progressively):
1- First of all, please understand that as I mentioned earlier, Quran says that it clarifies some of its verses using some other verses, i.e. if you list all the verses related with a specific topic and their closure at one place and unify them, they will give you a very clear description of a particular topic. Problem with translating individual ayaat, however, is that, while Arabic is an immensely broad language a huge number of Arabic words have many different meanings, rendering a single verse ambiguous very often.
2- There are several verses in Quran which state that the marital relation for humans is not just a physical relation and that the intercourse should ideally have a purpose to serve instead of fulfilling one’s sexual desires — at another place it says that the ‘purpose’ of the marriage must not be physical pleasure, and at another place praises those people who only engage in sexual intercourse when it is aimed at conception. (Just a by note that these verses just try to set the right preferences in a marital relation towards healthier, more balanced and stable living style, however, as implied by some other verses, this is a preferred way, not an absolute rule).
3- Now coming to the verse you mentioned, please note that the verse just before this one (2/222) is the one that forbids the intercourse during menstruation stating that it is not hygienic etc. The next verse continues in the same context, and argues that from a reproduction point of view “the example of your wives is that of a tilth”, which a farmer only enters when he intends to sow the seeds and during menstruation the intercourse cannot serve this purpose anyways.
4- As mentioned in 3, the actual crux of the verse was the metaphoric characterisation of a married woman as tilth from a reproduction point of view. Unfortunately it went unnoticed to some vibrant mullahs and the part of the verse that caught their attention the most was ‘Anna Shi’tum’; Anna has two popular meanings, ‘when’ and ‘where’; in most translations you will see that both of these meanings are given side by side as, ” … when/where you will”. From this, some of the mullahs tried to conciously promote their fantasies, however, if you honestly put this verse in the context and also take into account the verses mentioned in 2, there is only one meaning that you can deduce (endorsed by many scholars), which implies that you should enter the tilth when you plan to reproduce.
I hope it helped.
Kind Regards!
Sarosh
@Zia m,
Although in my last post addressed to you I have already explained what I actually meant and that Quran even talks of reward to the good people from among non-Muslims, to make it more explicit, let me also say that killing of non-believers is not only not a concept of Quran, but it can be very strongly and effectively refuted from a broad set of verses thereof.
Kind Regards!
Sarosh
@Sarosh
Thanks for clarification.I was talking about your imaginary hell fire that is
meant for all non-believers.I don’t even want to touch the killing part.
This thread is getting too long we should move to visitors views.
Peace{
@Zia m,
For that too, I am already clear that I do not believe in any kind of hell fire targetted at non-believers both logically as well as religiously as the same is endorsed by Quran. The imaginary hell fire does not kill by the way
.
Kind Regards!
Sarosh
@econfused: Roger that!
@Sarosh: thanks for your efforts. We agree to disagree.
@Zia m: Burn baby Burn! ;’-)
@mbokhari & pejamistri,
Thanks for joining the call on weekend. GM was hosting the call and I (admin) was just the operator in first few minutes.
I had to fly today to US and forgot the dongle for my sound editing software in home. The raw sound quality is not good enough for publishing and most likely it will be put online once I get back in few days.
@TK, no excuse will be accepted for next call.
Admin
TK ………..
such a C Class stuff …….
do u have enough dare to write your original name while typing nasty things.
feeling real shame for my male bros like u n ur kind.
u translated which QURANs ayah …..for ALLAH S sake if u r muslim …ask ALLAH FOR GUIDANCE …so tht He cud help u out ….
cant u write a sentence without ur specific verbal abuse.
i m medical student n unfortunately female. i cud understant what shall the language u guys will use wen i will enter into politics. what ever kashmala tariq is ,go n prove it in court…….and let all of us get rid of her …..have u seen her doin all ,,,,
at some DR ………..what u r talkin u ve just put allegation of killing on her ….do u ppl ponder for a moment what u r writing …i know all of u r our burger lot or the one so called english fluent …(i m a paindo person rather i didnt c american pie thats y i always need dictionary for u guys esp TK thing s WORDS ..n i always come up with some nude things ….)
………………………..now i cud understand WASI ZAFAR s psyche ….what is the difference between u n him…..
atleast Tk sahab …..i can understand u r some OONCHI cheezi thtsy using such nude stuff ….
i just came back after long time here n last time i left coming here cuz of u guys NUDE language….if u disagree wid some one is it necessary to use such comments….
by d IS THERE ANY MODERATION EXIST..
…………………………..n now a DIRTY DIALOGUE FOR MY bro TK n all of his sort
…what do u say to ur sis or ur mother wen u disagree wid her ( chowkidar k saath ghomnay wali, ya sexy crow…….AIK DO JUMLAY AOR HEN JO AAP KO DEFINE KRTAY HEN BUT I WONT WRITE …….) i dont know the family of urs ……..
for ALLAH sake …what is the sin of v females ….
…………….n in last just wanna say thanks n have lots of prayers for SAROSH..n other who supported him……..
i m hopeless seeein TKs …
You must be in Chandka medical college because I cannot understand a word you are trying to say.Go and visit Wikipedia and you will find out what your Baji Kutimala is.
ur attitude SHOWS which family n institute u belong (just for ur info i m in DUHS )
FOR UR mind which is full of WISDOM …..wikepedia is user MAINTAINED SITE ….doesnt publish authorized and authentic things rather the one which are pasted by USERS…did u get it or u need some dictionary…(ur mind is engorged with sick nerves thts y u cant get sentences which dont contain nudity)
and for this DR username …..sir before using such a prestigous word as ur username try to become a bit civilized ………on what basis u r typing wrong spells for kashmala ………….
…..
lastly i just came here to post a last question to this TK thing ….
sir would u keep using this ABUSIVE language if u r invited to talk on tv. ..or the place where thousands of people know ….
……
u..
…..do u have a single horse power DARE TO TALK IN THIS WAY IN FRONT OF PEOPLE WHO KNOW …………..U DONT EVEN HAVE TO WRITE UR ORIGINAL NAME HERE …
…
FOR THIS DR STUFF …………….IT DOESNT MATTER FROM WHERE BELONG THE THING WHICH MATTERS IS WHAT V SAY (I JUST MENTIONED duhs thing i dont feel proud of it …n respect all the ppl who study even in CMC)
….plz always provide proof before putting allegations of any sort …did u c her sitting in car wid NIRALA s owner s son ..or did u c her doing CHEAP things with any person from ur eyes ….or u just read on line …..
…
ur class is revealed ….
(for comprehending U N TK s post i always need SLANGs dictionary)…
i feel proud on being PAINDO …..hate to be of ur VARIETY …i.e andar pind bahir burger
…by d way (mentioning just for so called ENGLISH LITERATES) MY keyboard is nt properly functioning …
@
dramberghaffar
there should be no respect and no decency should be shown to the people like kashmala tariq and other q lotas….so please stop your lecture now….if someone used bad words for kashmala she deserve that 100 %…..i cant forget that scene when on 12th may Mqm slaughtered 50 people in karachi and Mosh doggie was overjoyed and dancing in islamabad on dead bodies and this b i tch was standing on the right side of Mush and was also full of happiness….people like kashmala and other shameless politicians should be treated in such a way so that they become an example for every shamelsess politician in the country….
for your furher information this slut was in USA to defend Mush´s 3rd Novemeber action, kicking the judges out , imposing emergency …she also added in Lahore that lawyers and civil society members deserve that brutal treatement and Govt. should not release them at any cost…..
just imagine her thinkings and then give lecture to others….in my opinion she is a characterless crap and deserve no respect at all
@sleepingnation
the lady standing next to mush on 12th May was Sumaira Malik (another….u know wat i mean…) and not kashmala (the angel ????)
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