shiite!! I missed a good conversations! THANKS A LOT pkTaliban!

good debate/discussion

Wow, Great Idea. Can you also invite a few known Politicians?

agree with pejamistri on inflation…
Even over here in North American the prices of oil, food, and other products have increased.
We should learn from Malaysia, how their system works in terms of economics. We need someone like Mahatir Mohammed.
Now the question of Musharraf and Attorney general being in the office, it’s simple, it’s thanks to the PPP chairman and his followers.

why do you need ‘real politicians’? We can see them on television all the time anyway….its good to know the opinions of our youth of today ..they are so knowledgable and well informed its a pleasure to listen to what they have to say. ..Perhaps in the future we’ll be able to hear TK or Kafka 8 or Rawk as they too are really enlightened.and last but not least the bacha interviewing them was bara best too..thankyou for all the effort you are putting in..

My thinking is that Judges will not be restored

When BB and Mush were doing negotiation back in sept/oct, as it’s result we saw reasonably BB return to pakistan, NRO and reasonably fair election. Now that is what PPP got, question is what did PPP give in return.

If I remember correctly BB once made a comment ( i think it is her book) that part of the deal is that defense and foreign ministry will be taken care by mush and the rest of the govt affairs will be handled by PPP and obviously that means that Mush will remain as a civilian president for next president

Now, the current situation is that only man either CJ or mush can hold his office. So obviously PPP can not bring CJ as it will be deviation from the deal

And Just to remind one important thing that Gen Kiyani was also part of negotiation. That time he was heading ISI and I think by then Mush had made his mind that he would be next Army Chief, thats why he was there in negotiations and there were other foreign guarantors too.

Gen Kiyani had not let army or ISI interfere in election it is not because Army was or wanted to be out from politics , it is only because it is part of barter.

and I don’t think Army will let PPP back off from the deal. and If PPP had to bow because of public pressure then I guess we will see another martial law

In order to have a revolution u need a strong Leader who does not have a tainted background. This is the only way that mass public will follow it and the destiny will be changes. Whether it is Zardar, Nawaz S, Iftikhar Chaudry or Aitezaz Ahsan, there is no one around who has such a persona. Hell even Imran Khan is trying for over 11 years and have not gained any mass support to fight the establishment.

This is true that Establishment is still IN and nothing is going to be changed…. America has learned a lot from Iranian Revolution and now they are careful in playing this card.

Riddle, First of all people in India and Pakistan are reformist not revolutist. We follow people like Mohammad Ali Jinnah, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, Sir Sultan Mohammad Shah. We do not follow Moulana Maudoodi.

Pakistan Army has destory the very fabric of our society that is the reason we have only one national party which also struggling to survive. Pakistan Army is now too powerful not only politially but also economically. They run from Toll collection to Cement plant, Bakeries, logistic, construction, Aviation, transport, Schools, university. and in between every thing. half of the population depends on the corruption of Pakistan Army.

@kinnare It is true that Pakistan Army has become such powerful but in order to fix the situation u need to figure out that who actually made them this strong. It was the politicians who kept fighting with each other and the Military and Establishment followed their golden rule of “divide and conquer” to rule the country.

Establishment is not going to let it go that easily especially when they are the ones who set the stage in the first place. Politicians and Establishment both look to US for support and so far it is clear that US is backing Establishment and is asking PPP to fulfill its promises as planned by NRO.

For NS, it provided a golden opportunity to re generate its street power and so far he has played some great cards. After when NS left the country, his power was significantly lost and the Judges issue provided him the long awaited opportunity.

Pakistan can only be saved now if a complete overhaul of the system is done. Keeping the fact in mind that how corrupt our system is, only a revolution can bring us back on track which may be a bloody one.

Otherwise the rust is so deep that it might be too late if we wait for a reformist to come and fix the problem…..

The recent situation is a clear example of this ……..

GM saab, hum say kiya nufrat thehri ? I requested you to have a debate but you refused to respond. I am disappointed that you not only forgot to call back to say yes or no to my proposal. Any reasonable person will call or email to say sorry thank you. On top of it, you never accepted or rejected my request for debate. Bai Saab, should I call it unfair treatment or your personal bias.

@jawad,

We are having another session on Saturday and you are most welcome to join.

Admin

@admin, please let me know, how can I join in

@admin,

Why dont u interview me sometime as well. Good program by the way. Both mbokhari and pejamistry are good analysts.

Regards,

Talking in Urdu….but thinking in ENGLISH….especially pejamistri
but anyway it is a good start………………..

nice effort

i do not know why but after listening to pejamistri i got an impression that I am listening to some confused PPP fellow like khurshid shah or that quershi (fm) or someone like them, who is not clear in thinking and do not know what his actual message is ……

anyway good effort

@sleepingnation
I am very confused really , I want to be a “woman of eighteen stone” , most of the time no idea of what I am talking
Kaaba meray aagay hai Kalisa meray peechay

But surely I am a die hard pipliya , love ZAB , love BB

@peja

how do you describe a diehard pipliya?

here is an interesting read:

one step forward, two steps backward

http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2008/05/080503_judges_musharraf_analysis.shtml

@haqqi
Don’t know really. I just wanted to sooth sleepingnation , he would feel very proud to discover I am a pipliya

@

pejamistri

i dam care ..if you are pipliya live with it..if not then join them and assist hussain haqani how to make US happy with those all fake “establishment/BB murder/Nuclear/terrorist bla bla bla and help PPP to occupy pakistan for many years

test

@Sleeping

I thought perhaps I should elaborate on the inside joke that Peja just made.

In Brothers Karamazov, the rationalist brother Ivan has a conversation with his phantom, the devil who says:

“…For all their indisputable intelligence, men take this farce as something serious, and that is their tragedy. They suffer, of course… but then they live, they live a real life, not a fantastic one, for suffering is life. Without suffering what would be the pleasure of it? It would be transformed into an endless church service; it would be holy, but tedious. But what about me? I suffer, but still, I don’t live. I am x in an indeterminate equation. I am a sort of phantom in life who has lost all beginning and end, and who has even forgotten his own name.[...] I would give away all this superstellar life, all the ranks and honours, simply to be transformed into the soul of a merchant’s wife weighing eighteen stone and set candles at God’s shrine….”

What he means is, I think, that he is not a set-in-stone believer but has a superficial belief in the Bhutto legend. He stifles his inner monologues and his inner doubts to clear away all the confusion. He doesn’t want to be the naysayer forever. Always the critic. Always the defender of his critique. He just wants to make life easier and simpler, black and white, and he says, “I want to believe.”

The way I see it, the PPP is a pillar, a column supporting the crumbling edifice of Pakistan. The pillar, the shehteer is rotten to the core perhaps, but if you take it out the roof will cave in. There is no substitute for the part that PPP plays. The classical definition of politics is: Who gets what, when. (Plato?) In other words, the coming together of disparate elements to share and divide resources equitably. When politics is just, when democracy is strong, you get stable republics, Rome, US, India. When politics is unjust, or a pillar of the Republic is removed/damaged, the resources don’t get shared equitably. Bangladesh and now Balochistan. I may dislike Zardari intensely, but I have utmost respect for the PPP voters of Shorkot, Jaccobabad and Dadu. Things are not so simple as PPP an American stooge, NS a patriot Pakistani. Get your head out of from between your leg…:)

By the way, Peja, you most certainly have Sympathy for the Devil. For my part, I found the part about the Inquisitor and Christ the most striking part of the book.

I never finished it :-/

@mbokhari
Thanks for elaboration. Won’t dare to refute your conclusion.
I also agree with you that “The Grand Inquistor” is the most striking part of the book. My favorite character though is Dmitri, so you can guess what sort of a person I am

i never wanted to read that

@mbokhari:

The way I see it, the PPP is a pillar, a column supporting the crumbling edifice of Pakistan. The pillar, the shehteer is rotten to the core perhaps, but if you take it out the roof will cave in.

Your comment reminded me of this painting by Saira Waseem.

I want to see what she makes of the current situation in Pakistani Politics.

brothers, hamain aik khooni inqilaab chahiye

isee tarah ham is nizam ka khatma kar sakte hen

haha…Dmitri..

That reminds me…We were discussing TBK in high school and the prof told us that Kurt Vonnegut (Slaughterhouse Five) thought that TBK was a complete parable of society anywhere, at any time and Vonnegut even put that in his novel.

My family thinks I am Alyosha, my friends think I am Dmitri and I think I am Ivan looking for Katerina. What I could really use would be a Father Zossima…

@TK

Verrrrry interesting painting. Very symbolic. Those two guys should have been Zardari and Nawaz while Justice IMK would be up there on the canopy. Do you realize that the position of judiciary is the weakest NOW then at any time since March 9, 2007? If Nawaz accepts PCO judges, as he will, this will compromise the lawyers movement. They will be taken away from their PURE and absolute stand towards something rotten and stinking, a compromise. IMC will also be compromised. The Babar Awaans of PPP almost succeeded when they had him visiting Zardari. Now imagine him sitting on the bench with Justice Gobar and hearing Sheeda Tully with his wig on Geo calling all the judges one and the same…..The pillars are INDEED rotten and may break. If only the army did the right thing ONCE in its entire existence. I refuse to believe that the right decision by ONE good man can’t change the course of history. Why can’t Kiyani let us have the judiciary we want….Come on…60 years is a long time…Give us a break…

That painting is very saddening.

bara acha analysis hay donon sahibon ka. in ka koi akhbar main column ya articel chapa hai to jarur post kar den. thnx u.

@ haqqi

1-u have used the word ” jarur ” in ur last comment, wud u like to disclose ur origin?

2- r u not the guy with ID ” Paindoo”" ??? just my wild guess….i may be wrong though….

@haqqi

“to jarur post kar den”

Aha!!! I caught you…Are you the RAW agent? Only an Indian would say jarur…Pakistanis pronounce it as Zaroor.

(joking…Welcome to pkpolitics if you are Indian

@ haqqi

wtf says jarur? only dirty indians. why are you here? did RAW send you? didnt they give u classes in Urdu? lol just joking. NOT

@GM

Can’t you match his IP with different id’s? I think you may have ad_ministrative previliges? BTW, that Paindoo guy has really gone crazy :-)…Check the visitors news page and post by fas.

thnx u 4 corecing me

zaror.

sorry bokhari