i am agreed with hamid mir parliament is soverign and it can change chief justice retirement date to 2010,as agreed in charter of democracy that was signed by nawaz and benazir,that 17 ammendment should be removed from constitution.
aur agar nawaz sharif is baat ko nahi manta tu it will be against c.o.d

any comments

The fundamental problem has always been PPP and Mr. Zardari-( or Mrs. Zardari )- They made the deal with Musharraf promsing him NO CJ Igtikhar in return for their NRO. All the dancing around, slogans have failed to put the suspicions of the civil society to rest and rightly so since Mr. Zardari is forgeting one thing and that is that he has NO CREDIBILITY inspite of the recent adulations from the pundits of the TV newsmedia who have talked about his maturity etc etc. Even though the PPP belives-( wrongly) that BB should get the credit for the political movement against Musharraf and for democracy- the people of Pakistan know that PPP and everyone else was quite shocked to see the popularity of CJ Iftikhar and they decided to ride this band wagon too . Let us also not forget that -( all emotions aside)- that on that fatefull day when BB was killed- to start with there were very few people in Liaqat Bagh-(200) at the time when the meeting was supposed to start. BB did not arrive till the Liaqat Bagh was better occupied. In fact I would venture to say that one of the reasons why BB stood up in the SUV was that a group of people showed up with PPP flags and slogans .

I will again ask the old question. Rehman Malik who was incharge of the personal security of BB and failed completely to keep his leader safe- is immediatly appointed by Zardari as the Minister of Interior.

Doe anyone need anymore proof of Zardari being in Musharraf’s pocket ?

I am not a PMLN supporter, being made this clear; I must say that I have to agree with shimatoree.

Restoration of judiciary is the main issue. I think these judges regardless of their past, for the first time in our history, in such a large no. have taken such a commendable step. They have denied a dictator and stood fast for the principles. No where in the world such an example exists.

In my opinion now, it is criminal if Mr Zardari does not support them. This is against the wishes of people of Pakistan.

My family have voted for PPP but I will feel ashamed and think my votes have been wasted if Mr Zardari does not restore judges or limit / amend the tenure of CJ.

Please comments…..

@ malik123

sovereignty of parliament does not afford the parliament blanket legislative powers

there is some legislation that could come under the ambit of judicial review…esp. legislation that could adversely affect the trichotomy of power…check out the following link for the landmark case that underscores the principle:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marbury_v._Madison

Shimataree, what PPP got against NRO was coffin of BB. Zardari spent eleven year in jail which technically is one life. Even if all the cases was proved against Zardari he could not have gotten bigger sentences. If Government in western world would have kept Zardari with proving single case they would have paid millions in Liability.

Deal was basically propagada of media. Pakistan media would do any thing to please their master Pakistan Army. Remeber Pakistan Army has not surrender yet they will not for next 100 years.

Remeber PPP did not got a single vote for restrotion of judges. But only PPP who can do it.

@malik123

fair enough if they do it 2010 than might some ppl accept it or some dont but it will be a fair deal coz this judge will change the course of the history of pakistan even in 1 month

but about the question of soverignity as explained by hamid mir n shahid masood,would they like to answer that if in 18th amendment the parliament comes up with a new form of pemra ordinance which will barred live transmission and few journalists on the name of national interest than will hamid mir n shahid masood accept that,

the answer is no n than they will be the same ppl who will come up with the constitution of 1973 and the articles relating to fundamental rights

so they should pack up the argument of who is superior n who is not n come to the point that these judges should need to come back according to bhurban decelaration n in that declaration there is no mentioning of deminishing cj’s term

all eyes on zardari,how much he gona juggle around n those lawyers who had sorted out musharaf even with his uniform can sort him out easily

@sr: Good to know. I always thought legislation was part of the duties of the parliament but that the laws after being enacted (?) could be challenged in Supreme Court and either nullified or something.. How does the High courts ‘legislate’ ? do they give advice to the parliament regarding certain parts of the act and it is then amended?

I do keep hearing on the news things like “Supreme court struck down X, Y from the law etc.. ” I’m not a lawyer so in my limited understanding it probably means it has to go back to the drafting table? (just for those clauses? and the rest of the act stays active?)

Also, since you seem to be a lawyer , I’ll ask a free question ;’-) , do the precedents set in foreign courts apply in national courts (for any given national court?) cuz I’ve heard Aitezaz Ahsan also talk about US cases.. and I was wondering how that would be established as ‘precedent’ in a Pakistani court for example? (they interpret it generally?)

@malik123
Parliament is sovereign ……. no doubt about this, but parliament reflects the wishes of people. What people want, you do not need to know rocket science for this. Even a deaf and dump person can predict what the people want. They want CJ …. restored unamended.
Please don’t get me wrong but Parliament can not go against the will of the people. Suppose if the parliament decides today that Islam should no longer be our religion and we should be a so called secular society. Should we accept this… ? because the parliament is sovereign.

I think they should conduct refrendum if they want to limit the service period of CJ. If the majority of people are in favour of this ….yes sure go ahead and limit the tenure of CJ .

Just as Every1 thought.

PPP strikes back!!!!!!

So much for the Jamhooriat Ki Raani–HAH

I do not think that Parlaiment is sovereign in Pakistan the only institute that is sovereign in Pakistan is Pakistan Army. And now they are trying to Judicary strong so that Pakistan Army can rule through Judicary.

Pakistan Army has not surrender they will not until it is trun into national Army and only punjab can do it. Which I doubt if thinker of punjab are ready to do it.

@asqu

not a bad idea about carryin a referendum but under whom,musharaf as a president and zardari as a kingmaker and been accuquinted from 9 different cases under NRO

cj will get a mere 10% i can preditc right now

@ Farhan
I think civil society , lawyers , Imran Khan , Qazi sahib , PMLN ,all want restoration of judges. For Mr Zardari ,it will not be an easy task to ignore all these forces and not to restore or limit the service period of CJ.
Referendum is just a counter argument , but measures can be taken to conduct a fair referendum . Remember in Punjab it is PMLN now and majority of population lives in Punjab ….. but to be honest if they conduct a fair poll CJ will get 90% …

i certainly tend to agree with you but some times i realy feel sori for this man Zardari as this NRO has realy tied him up and every one knows that who was behind that NRO n ppl in states knows that very well that there is no free lunck in states

if british would had been behind NRO as the drivers than zardari might wud had got some free lunch as i get free lunch every now n than in london

so zardari is under extreme pressure not only from his own party’s broken arrows but also from americans n presidential camp as well

Farhan, I leave in US and do not know who was behind NRO can you please explain. As faf as PPP is concern PPP got against NRO is coffin of BB!!!!!!!!

NRO was designed by US advocacy, regardless of that i want to ask fellow observers if they do not see any political ambitions in CJ?

richard boucher n condoleeza rice plus few members from british establishment probably david milliband

its a known fact n i will get you the recorded proof for that from new york times or washington post,guardian etc

these all stories had come in to the newspaper many times but since BB’s death they are just shunt n tryin to grab zardari n its very obvious that zardari is falling for it n its only matter of days when this co-alition will be abolished,vanished,diminished,tarnished and relinquish in days

i am very very dissappointed by reading couple of stories from some realy credible journailists like ansar abbasi n rauf klasra that zardari is fallin for the trap which is been made by presidential camp with the help of three broken arrows from ppp:senator babar awan,senator latif khosa n senator farooq naik.

this new chief is a conspirator…. no doubt about it now that he is makin life easier for musharaf

Yes Farhan have read those stories but where is the proof. BB did negotiation for return of Democaracy but as usal Pakistan army was not ready to surrender their hate for Pakistan is much greater than their love.

What PPP got through NRO was coffin of BB. 2500 cases where withdraw against MQM but do media mention about it. because their master Pakistan Army would not like.

@farhan
“if british would’ve been behind NRO as the drivers than zardari might have gotten some free lunch as i get free lunch every now n than in london”
…..lol

If u want free lunch frequently, join pak army—or move to canada

@TK

no…im not a lawyer ….just a computer scientist….the lawyer thing would have been cool, though!!!

studied this case as part of a constitutional law course i took…i am not sure about how the modalities would work, but i do not that the parliament’s right to legislate is not all encompassing…really trivial example…the parliament can’t pass a constitutional amendment to dissolve the supreme court altogether….even if 100% of the parliament votes to have no supreme court it can’t be done….this is really interesting…so there is a question about whether fundamental rights pre-exist in the constitution….or do they rely upon the constitution to give them sanctity

about citing foreign cases as evidence…that is very normal….even the AG was quoting indian cases about how the absence of a federating unit does not nullify a presidential election (when there was talk about dissolving the NWFP assembly)….it especially makes sense to look at such ‘precedence’ in cases involving the trichotomy of power and for fundamental rights, as the same principles apply everywhere….that’s my take…you might be better off asking a lawyer

Ansar Abbasi hate PPP he cannot stand Bhutto and he well works of Jung Group who are as much responsible for murder of ZAB as JI is.

@fas

mate you dont know what condition i am in,i had taken part in almost all the demonstrations in london even since i had came in here against musharaf n against the afghan war,iraq war etc

my younger brother is in pak army n will be a captain soon n he is gettin free lunches on regular basis n my mind goes on the other side

i wonder whether a day will come when my brother would be opening a fire on me if i am takin a part in demonstration as i m leaving for pak soon n will stay in isb for long period

@asqu
as i said parliament is soverign,and public leaders sitting in parliament makes decisions but all decisions they do are not popular in public,let me give u example of iraq war ,when british parliament authorized attack on iraq ,majority of british public was against the war.
and 2nd example is 17th ammendment in pakistan,8th ammendment.
i am 100%sure this establishment is involved in judicary case ,gen.hameed gul, gen. aslam baig, roidad khan, all these people who are against politicians they were involved in it and they want to use supereme court against politicians in couple of year time,

@sr: man this place is crawling with comp sci ppl! hehe.. I just figured from the way you were constructing your arguments ;’-) but yeah I was thinking of the same thing you mentioned.. someone mentioning an Indian case and a US constitutional case (which is good It hink). I should have taken a constitutional law course.. would’a come in handy hehe

You said:

the parliament can’t pass a constitutional amendment to dissolve the supreme court altogether….even if 100% of the parliament votes to have no supreme court it can’t be done

you know what’s sad? it could happen in mumlikat-e khuda-dad-e Pakistan (if pirzada is allowed to run amok for long enough? lol )

ppp didnt got even single vote for judicary, and it doesnt make a differnce in its popularity . zardari is saying that all this judicary was against peoples party from day 1
bhuttho was killed by judicary
1990 when ishaq khan dissolved assembly ,verdict came against benazir
asif zardari spend 11 years in jail. and no case was decided against him how many years you need to investigate corruption charges
zardaris 85 years old father was not release on parole when his nephew died by justice wajih uh din
on the other hand if u talk about nro ppp got benazir dead body in reply of nro
zardari is not scared of nro

Infact Zardari is in cash 22 situation. He will have to have keep his contract with his USA gaurenter. But remember that non of the Pakistani is benificiary of this accord. And we should be brave to absorb truth and it is a truth that Mrs Baynazir’s did not come pakistan to embrace brutal death for common masses rather to become 3rd time PM. People who wanted to escape the charges of corruption and never asked for a speedy trial even not in Swiss courts and begged for pardon and tried not to return a single penny who can they give their lives. If PPP has not got a single vote on the basis of restoration of judiciary then they have not equally cliameed any vote on the basis of supporting musharaf and they should publically say that we will not restore judges and then people will show their reaction and verdict.

and let me tell you about lawyers ,and judges of pakistan ,they are more liars than politicians
every lawyer belongs to mainly 2 parties,ppp or pml n
lawyer is always liar

@TK

why on earth would pirzada be bothered with packing up the supreme court….looks like he doesn’t give a damn….a little thing like a supreme court or a constitution has never really bothered him or his ilk

hi admin,
the initializing process stops in half and the screen still appears black ,whynot this process is completing……..videos with the play arrow buttun worked alright with me but not with the above automative initializing thing now i can’t watch any video due to this,please upload the way you usually done before for the last 1 year ,also please try for audio option too,thanks.

@kinnare and others-

I would have thought that we were looking at the situation in an objective and analytical manner but it seems that slogans are still in use. It was BB who inspite of having been warned about the dangers went to Liaqat Bagh and stood up in the SUV through the SunRoof. Yes the security of the Govt. was not good enough but where was the personal security run by Mr. Rehman Malik
It was Mr. Zardari who forbade an autopsy on BB. Yes Musharraf’s regime was timid and did not enforce the LAW and perform the autopsy . Just because NRO has wiped the slate clean for Mr. Zardari does not mean that he is Mr. Clean and tidy and I mean that in political terms- as to how the people of the country see him . It is fascinating that he has one opportunity to make himself respectable by restoring the judiciary and he seems to be trying everything in the book to torpedo this one chance that HE has.
I do not belong to any political party and have feelings for or against NO ONE.
Regarding Mr. Zardari- perhaps all the cases against him were used for political reasons but I would like to ask about the CONVICTION in the Swizz case which was on apeal when Musharraf’s Govt. withdrew their friend of the court position. There is no question that Mr. Zardari was on the DEA list right behind Ayub Afridi . That was the basis on which the Swizz Govt. agreed to divulge the financial figures under his and his wife’s Swizz accounts in the money laundering case. But that is getting away from the POLITICAL facts on the ground in Pakistan.
For the first time in the country’s history the politicians will be held accountable for what they had talked about. This fact is well recognized by Nawaz Shareef but PPP still is living in the past where they feel that they can continue to live on the legacy of 2 dead political leaders . Their vote bank is shrinking withe population shift to the cities and with the TV news media and it;s talk-( educational shows) - the game has changed.
Slogans captalising on the tragic death of 2 political leaders can only get you so far. Slogans promsing food, clothes and shelter do not go far now because the people now want to know WHEN and HOW SOON. When Zardari gets complete relief from cases against him- the small time thieves and robbers say why are we still in jail and why are we still going to court.
It might be that all the cases against Zardari were bogus- well then why run away from the courts and get a free pass from an illegitimate dictator by throwing him a life line.

@malik123

if rest of the dumb ppl believe the story you have been portraying that ppp dint get any vote for judiciary than should we believe that your great leader BB(who i realy respect as she was gud in reading public pulse)announcement in front of cj’s house was just a political stunt

admit it mate n case will be clear

if ppp dint get any vote for judiciary than BB’s visit to cj’s house before elections was just a gimmic n a political stunt.

justice iftikhar got its political ambitions and this media is 100?cking him up to make him another political force so let me tell u one thing all these lawyers refused to take part in election and now they are jumping on political forces to restore judges.
parliament is soverign ,let me give u another example chief justice 4 months apnay ghar main nazar band raha biwi bachoon kay satth kitna lawyers kyee public power kiya us ko raha karwa sakay answer is NO
KIS NAY RAHA KIYA PRIME MINISTER NAY SIRF EK LINE BOL KAR
THE MINUTE HE SAID KAY JUDGES KO RAHA KAROO,SAME MINUTE JUDGES RAHA HO GAY

I agree with KINARRE partly. Army has upper hand and PPP has realised this fact and that is why have shifted it’s politics from anti-establishment to pro-establishment although now rest of the almost entire nation wants to get rid of army rule and is struggling for that. my appeal is that now people should reject all pro-establishment political forces across the board to win this war.

@sr: hahaha! right on bro! (I would call him that name.. but then I’d have to engage in a 2 day debate about whether or not my tongue should be washed with desi saboon…)

@malik123

it was the pressure of public who used to go there for every single day for 4 months so that gilani has had no choice just to release them

if ppp dint get any vote for the judiciary than why the hell your beloved prime minister let the cj go,he should have been brave enough to tell the ppl of pakistan that my boss(zardari)is stuck with NRO so these judges will be held under custody until we bring an 18th amendment and diminsh the cj’s term n than would had let him go.

come out of ur ppp charm as nusrat javed n athar abbas slowly coming out of it n mind you they were the hard core fanatics about ZAB n ppp

@FARHAN
LET ME TELL YOU ANOTHER BBS STATEMENT kay judges ko apni justice party bana lainyee chahiya.she said so many times.ppp never got single vote for judicary
@shimotree
ppp vote bank is still same
kabhi shrink nahi hoa
even in 2002 ppp was largest party
and in 2008 as well.

@malik132
Who is AJ malik Qyuum?
What mussaraf said about ZA Bhutto?
But who bothers principles, we need govt.

@mailk 123

who should we believe on judges issue,NS who had the same stance on judiciary before n after the elections or your beloved ppp who is changing stances every single day

she said cj iftikhar is my chief justice than she said something else,zardari said judges will be restored on 9th march now he is gettin different ideas

ppp vote bank is still same
kabhi shrink nahi hoa
even in 2002 ppp was largest party
and in 2008 as well.

wow such a party this is that thier beloved leader got killed brutaly and they still got the same vote bank………..amazing init

Shimatoree, Zardari spent eleven year in jail that is almost life. Why govt did not prove it. If it would have been western Government they would have been paying in millions to Zardari.

As PPP vote bank is concern still largest party in Pakistan. Last election PPP vote bank was eleven million votes. Establisment has always been against PPP and still is trust me Army has not surender yet. Army has given PPP government not power.

And according to most of you after restrotion of Cj. Judicary would be indepent let them punish Zardari. or give verdict on HR 93/1999. filed by Air Marshall Ashgar have stated the NS, IK and Altaf Bhai took money from Army to fight election against PPP.

@malik123

one more thing,this is a change pakistan n ppl come for you on your real stance n issues dealing not with the weaping crying face of same old chaunting oh………. our 2 leaders got killed for democracy so let us do whatever we wana do

let us digest the money we nicked illegaly as our 2 beloved leaders got killed.

wakie wakie mate,time to wake up

I think NRO should be no issue for Zardari:

1- He has spent a large part of this life already in jail on changes that were not proven. Even if charges against him are proven right after removal of NRO, his past years in jail are enough to substitute any fresh sentence. BB’s case was different in case of NRO since she did not spend any time in jail.

2- Parliament can issue another NRO. Constitutionally president has powers to forgive even death sentence of anyone, therefore if 2/3rd parliament is with Zardari, they can find another work around in no time.

@drali
dont worry about attorney general he is only servant to govt dekh loo aaj us nay b.a kyee sharat khatam karwa lyee hain asif zardari kay liya
if you talk about principle tu c.j nay khud pco kay saath oath liya hoa hain.jub byee martial law aya in judges nay democratic govt. kay against decision diya. aaj jub in judges kyeee apni dum par paaooon aya tu chilla rahay hain

@malik123

mate write in english plz,your roman urdu is causing trouble here……

seems like you are out of words n ideas to prove wrong to the right…..

why dont you just accept it that cj will not go after the dearly NRO n if zardari is clear he should not be worried about it any way……

this judiciary is our life time chance,

@TK

sharif-ud-din peerzada is some what 80 and will be off soon than we might goin to have an independant judiciary but who knows about attorney general…..

@farhan
talk with logic insaan kyee zindagi main jaan say zaida piyari cheez kuch nahi hotyee agar koyee banda apnay political ambitions kay liya apni jaan daita hain . so that is big thing.
aur jahan tak tum votes kyee baat kartay ho tu judicary kay saray vote nawaz sharif nay liya still his votes are only 63 lacs. dont forget all voters of imran khan, jamat islami, lawyers and some voters of ppp in central punjab like lahore and rawalpindi went for nawaz sharif as he was driving his jeep with benazir picture on it in election campaign
even q leauge took more votes than nawaz sharif

@farhan
when u knew that ur life is at risk aap dartay ho like nawaz sharif, country chor kar saudia chalay jatay ho kehtay ho koyee deal nahi kyee, phir kehtay ho haan jee main nay deal kyee hain
za bhuttho kyee tarah yeah nahi kehtay kay i will die in my country i am not leaving pakistan
aur if u think benazir was not brave tu woh pehlay bomb attack kay baad he bhaag jaati public main is tarah na jaati

dont gime this votes n seats ratio mate plz

check your own logic out,BB got killed in pindi n ppp only managed to get 1 seat from there n now plz dont tell me that it was some sort of a conspiracy against ppp from army

ppp should had cleaned sweeped this election on one shout of bilawal bhutto or zardari but they couldn’t n the reason was public had been politicized madly after one “no” of cj n they had shown the verdict on 18th feb

read 2 stores in today’s the news from ansar abbasi n frm rauf klasra n get the idea where zardari is heading towards if you wont sent him an SOS soon that wake up zardari,stop these indian dialogues n do some practical……..

now dont say that ansar abbasi,hamid mir,rauf klasra,talat hussain,kashif abbasi,aftab iqbal,irfan siddiqui,haroon rasheed,javed chaudry,shafqat mahmood,athar abbas,abdul qadir hassan,shahid massod,kashif abbasi n many others they all are against ppp n zardari as they all do the same juggling now a days…..

if you are not familiar with these names than start doin some reading mate……

MALIK132
JAB TAK NRO NAHI AYA NAN MUHTRAMA NAH ZARDARI KISSI KO HIMMAT NAH HOI KAY PAKISTAN MAIN PANWO RAKHTA. CJ KA 25 GHANTAY KA SARAF PINDI SAY LAHR TAK SAFAR INN SO CALLED PLOITICIANS KAY LIAY DRAWNAN KHAWAB HI. MUSSARAF NAI JO ZA BUTTO KE JO TARRIF apni book main ke hai aap us per ppp leadership smait khamoosh hain. ppp ki maqbooliat ka yai alam hi kay jis shar main jan dee us city say aik seat bhi nha mill skai. hum too batoore awam kahaty hain kay Zardari anpne Zar koo bachane kay liay aik dafa kah dey ka judjes bahal nahi karnay tarikho per tarikhni na dey. agar cj nay pco koo qbool kia thah to ZA Bhtto nay General Ayyub koo apna political god father tasleem kia thah aur agar aap ki theory koo maan lia jay too phir too hum sab kay forefathers non-muslim thay .

Parliament VS Supreme Court debate is pretty old in democratic countries. There are cases in US, Indonesia, India as well.
In US even it is not explicitly stated but it is taken as an established fact agreed by the founding fathers that Supreme Court can over-turn any constitutional amendment made by the congress/Senate.
Although attempts to challenge its authority over constitutional decisions have been made throughout US history. An interesting incident was of FDR appointing new judges extending the size of SC to get his New Deal program approved by his appointees favorable judges.

Ours case is similar to India that we are following a hybrid mechanism a Federal as well as Parliamentary system.
Parliamentary form of government clearly states at legislative supremacy of the parliament. But the federal nature of the constitution makes it imperative that the highest judiciary is able to exercise the power of judicial review.
In India even recently, there has been quite a few cases where Supreme Court has over-turned the decisions of parliament and the debate goes on.

@farhan
nawaz sharif always had strong hold on central punjab specially rawalpindi and lahore.so ppp nay koyee seat byee nahi nikali tu raja pervez ashraf kahan say aa gaya 85000 votes lay kar
and if u talk about increase in votes so ppp took 3.3 millions more votes in 2008 compare to 2002 elections
because 1 million vote went to q leauge as in 2002 establishment made patriot group of 18 mnas
q leauge even took more votes than nawaz sharif and you should rembember one thing all votes of jamat islami, lawyers,and imran khan went to nawaz sharif still they couldnt beat collective votes of q leauge

Well i dunno weather to laugh or cry i realise even on this forum there are party political wars going on as to who got votes for what (which does’nt even matter)

as for all those people who voted for PPP and are thier die hard supporters even if they rob the country blind and kill each other i hope the veil has been lifted PPP leadership (Zardari) are a waste of space the voters must still love him thought huh? forget the CJ or an free judiciary lets work on saving Zardari. i bet they will vote for him again unless some one bumps him off aswell.

the N league well their just planning for the next elections and this is all a massive PR excercise i mean who out of these guys really wants an free judiciary when they are in power how wil they rob the country like they did previously. (Dnt bore me with details abt convictions)

the point to this excercise is that we need to get out of this frame of mind where we are in LOVE with political parties lets look at things objectively and see who is DOING (not saying) the right thing for pakistan.

ppp got mandate on thier manifesto that they will remove 17th ammendment and they will implement charter of democracy,which is against establishment, please read charter of democracy .

@farhan
all these kashif abbasi, abdul qadir hassan,athar khan all these journalists are anti ppp from day 1,and anti bhuttho check ur records

Written by Farhan”"”"mate write in english plz,your roman urdu is causing trouble here…… bhai meray u are a pakistani and humarii mother tongue is urdu not english jaab tum urdu nahi parsaktay tu kya khaaak baat karoo tumsay its not roman its urdu…………remmeber….????urduuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu…………..

Free version added.

Admin

They are all (army,politicians,richs of the country) always full of slogans………….

bashiraaa who was a mochi in 1960 lived a horrible life with extreme poverty …died of poverty and his grand son is still a mochi..in 2008……with infinite problems………..

these slogans …naarey are good for elite………let them enjoy……….this country is for them..

take care

imran malik

va usa

1-bloody revolution…..2-economic problems hurt ELITE too

unless and until these two scenerio happens………nothing will change except the faces ……………………………………the same elite will rule………………..

generals ,legharis ,cheema ,chattas,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

@malik123

COD????????
22. We shall not join a military regime or any military sponsored government. No party shall solicit the support of military to come into power or to dislodge a democratic government.

WHERE DOES PPP stands????????????????????????????????

well done Sardar Mehtaab Abbasi!

Situation is getting clear…the cate is coming out the bag…
in the next few days we will see the final leg of PPP-Musharraf deal being put in place….
i have absolutely no doubt that BB had changed her mind after coming to Pakistan. She paid with her life beacuse she was trying to get out of the deal.
Her death was necessary for those who want the deal to be implemented…
the only hindrance is Nawaz Sharif…
that has led to slight change in plan…restoration of judges is now allowed…but will be robbed of its effectivity through constitutional amendment…
The thing to see is this: Will Nawaz sharif go along with this deal implicitly our will it stick to its ground even if it means it has to leave the government…
I wish for the later…in the long run Pakistan will benefit if for once a party stands for principles…

sorry, in the first line it should have been ‘cat’ not ‘cate’…:)

damn…for a second i thought u were playing with words…and meant cate-mala tariq

ps: agreement reached b/w az and ns

now the question is of identifying the ‘good’, the ‘bad’ and the ‘ugly’….

PPP supporters here talk abt the BB’s “jaan ki qurbani” as if she did that deliberately. A soldier when dies in battle, thats called “jaan ki qurbani”.
Before coming to Pakistan she was running her campaign in US and came back only after getting guarantee.
Now, looking at arrival of NS, he didnt make any arrangements for his gurantee. The way he was thrown out of the country, it was not difficult for Army to get him killed. Thats my dear is called “jaan ki parwah na karna”.
BB died, Pakistan lost a great political mind, she is a martyr by every definition, but thats it, you cant claim that it was her “qurbani”. She came to Pakistan not for “qurbani” but for government.
All the PPP supporters here know that they dont have any argument agianst points raised by drali, farhan and shimatoree etc. Instead of defending their case, they start maligning CJ and others. If for the sake of argument we believe that accusations against CJ are true, does that acquit Zardari and his party for changing their stance with every rising sun?
I dont even see any point of discussion here , bcz its a known fact that Zardar and his PM released judges, not because they wanted to but because they had to. Now, they are going to restore judges not because they want to but because of NS and “awami” pressure. The reason I say there is no point for discussion is that every thing is crystal clear. Those who have nothing to hide or nothing to lose they are standing up for CJ and his tenure. The guilt of PPP is proven by the fact that they are opposing CJ to the extent that they have to now back up from a signed declaration, even risking all the popularity, their future votes everything.

@ malik123
“KIS NAY RAHA KIYA PRIME MINISTER NAY SIRF EK LINE BOL KAR
THE MINUTE HE SAID KAY JUDGES KO RAHA KAROO,SAME MINUTE JUDGES RAHA HO GAY”

This is by far the most ridiculous argument I have heard.
aray bhai, usay PM ka vote diya kis ne tha aur kis shart per?
Murree declaration pe sign kion kiye thay?
yeh aik line na kehta to aglay din vote for confidence le ker dikhata.

@malik123 and Farhan
Every one has a Wright to stick by its opinion. We all know both Mr Zardari and Nawaz Sharif not have that much bright PAST. In Pakistan, Army always played a role directly, when not directly then behind the scene.

Judiciary in the past was playing in hands of establishment. I do not agree that ZA Bhutto was hanged by judiciary. It was establishment and judiciary facilitated it. Politicians always struggled in Pakistan and suffered.

Now for the first time the establishment is cornered, the reason for this is the political forces not fighting with each other. It is the circumstances that helped political forces to realise that their enemy is common.

If judiciary is independent and not becomes a part, as it always been in the past then it is good for the country. I give you an example …. If judges were independent and there were a wide spread revolt as happened in the present judiciary would ZA-Haqq be able to hang ZA Bhutto???

In western society why there is rule of law? Human nature is same every where but in west there are checks in the form of independent Judiciary, media, civil society etc.

In Pakistan this is very positive thing happening now …. Civil society is getting strength, media is highlighting and covering the dirty games and tricks played by the establishment, thus in a way forming public opinion and educating people.

We should support the forces that are in favour of independent judiciary regardless these forces are sincere or they are supporting judges because it is for the time being in their interest.

If judges restored, media is independent, civil society gets strengths, establishment confined to its designated role, then no matter who remains in power, PPP or PMLN or someone else. It will become difficult to be corrupt and to rule ….

Mr. Kasuri should take admission into law college to understand the soverigny of the parliament. Parliament is not the creation of the constituion rather constituion is the creation of parliament. It is the highest instituion in the country. Parliament can make or unmake any law. It can amend or alter the previous constitution. It can make even the new constituion. The only differnce is that for ordinary law simple majority is required and for constitution two third majority is required. And in case of matter changing the boundaries of a province, the willingness of the parliament of province concerned is required. And Nov 3 was an illegal order of an illegal executive and can be undone by the legal order of a legal executive. Is their any doubt in the mind of any sane individual?

@ Salman Saeem - ” PPP supporters here talk abt the BB’s “jaan ki qurbani” as if she did that deliberately. ”

Nah, she probably didn’t. Now would you get out in the open, knowing fairly well that you will probably die? Do you have the guts? Knowing that you have already been targeted and been missed by inches, while 150 people died, would you still go out in the wild world? Yeah sure you would. Armchair braves like you are ten a penny. Now tighten your nappy, Mr. TalksCheap.

I like Ali Ahmed Kurd but I think he’s been overdoing the ‘political puffer fish’ schtick lately.. but I guess he should keep doing it.. (because a sizeable number of people are still buying it hehehe)

why NRO should not be an issue where those 30 billion dollars gone which ” corrupt couple looted from pakistan

i wish that PML (N) withdraw its support and let all dakus and qatils

zaradri chaudries altaf Mush and Bush one one side so that people really recognise evils

@ Salman Saeed

Although there is lot to comment in your post but would like to comment on one statement you made and i quote “looking at arrival of NS, he didnt make any arrangements for his gurantee”. Well, do you really want us to believe that someone who left the country after giving gurantees, which he lied about for appx. 7 years, came back “without” a gurantee……you can believe this…but let me tell no reasonable sane person will believe you…am sorry….

Second, your point about NS jan ki parwa na karan…..tell me on thing…if that is the why he begged to Mush and saudis to get out the jail and live like a pet in suadi arabia…ohhhh……don’t tell us that uss waqat wo jaan ki parwa karta thaa abb nahin……..oooppss another flop from NS…

regarding the freeing the judges, the credit goes to all the coalition partners……when ppp does something good it is their majboori….am sure you will say PEMRA amendments were their majboori…..taking back all the cases from Mengal and others is their majboori…….reinstatement of the trade unions is their majboori…….and so on…let me tell I think it is your “majbori” to bash PPP, nothing…so take care of your majboori first before you point out PPP’s majboris…

Today’s statement by AZ in a joint press conference with NS should be enough to put any speculators in place that PPP will not implement “muree accord”…..oh forgot you have a “majbori” to keep on bashing PPP…so go on….PPP supports will understand your majboori….

@ sleepingnation

Your wish will remain a wish…some who has asked Mush for forgiveness and lived as a pet of saudis for 7 years has no balls to take his support back…….NS has shown his courage when he faced adversity for the first time in politics..he left in country in darkness and accpted being a pet of saudis…….don’t count it…..

@

paf123

do not compare with 30 billion dollar looting done by your leaders which indeed are dacoits with 7 year exile of NS ..there is hell of a difference between these two

@ sleepingnation

who compared it…I did not…read my post carefully before you answer it…….I just told you why your wish will not be fulfilled……leaders who accept to live like pets rather than giving sacrafice for the country are not capable doing any thing bold…..

@

paf123

and “tribal dacoits” in form of leaders will be kicked out very soon like q league

@ sleepingnation….

it is the “leagues’ that get kicked out…..so be carefull….

@

paf123

i am afraid this time to look for a “shaheed ” will be very hard…..

I really appreciate Ali Kurd stance…he is very emotional person CJ tenure must not be decreased because thats what PM wants and we have to accept that this new Pakistan is only because of Ch. Iftikhar. May Allah keep him honest!

Anyone…..do you know where Optimist is……..

if anybody is not sure about value of benazirs murder just listen to imran khans interview with dr.shahid masood

Sab kay sab,, PPP, PML(N,Q),,, All political parites,,, Army,,, Judges,,, Tamam,,,,,and on top the People of Pakistan,,,, are currupt,,,Quran is very clear about it,,,, Jaisee Awaam waisay rehnumaa,,,, as for as i think the only hope That Pakistan should exist is an Islamic Revoloution,,, and to me the Constitution of Pakistan was also created under the instruction of God Father(America),,,,have alot of problems so no one can solve them,,,,still changes were made to create problems,,,,To me the best constituiton for any humanbeing is QURAN,,,,we should learn and implement it, so everyone can live with peace,,,,No need to argue about PPP,PML(N,Q) bla, bla bla,,,,First of all we should sincere to ourselves,,,Each and everyone is answerable to ALLAH for one’s own deeds,,, for Allah’s sake dont believe in these power brokers,,,they already have ruled pakistan for 20 years,, nothing we got than poverty,, and one more thing,, please inform out primeminister sahib ,, he interviewed some of the correspondents (telecast on GEO) that Pakistan is the member of Common wealth countries,,,,, please inform him pakistan is no more member of Common wealth countries since 22nd Nov 2007,,,,,,,, I hope the people of Pakistan will take this comment seriously and will not fight for PPP or PML(N,Q) etc etc, and will fight and argue only for QURAN and ISLAM

Salman Saeed,only thing I am going to say about your posting is that you need totake lot of years of education. Sorry for the comments but that how I feel it

@ ImGullible
I wanted to respond to ur post but instead I thought of following Quran’s orders. so my response to you is “Salam alaikum”, may peace be upon you.
@Paf123

I dont mind your comments, bcz you probably thought I was NS supporter and PPP basher, no I am not, I am a Pakistani just like you and all others on this forum. My dear you became too personal with me. My BB’s qurbani comment was regarding the debate going among ppl here, and I was only saying that PPP supporters didnt come up with any real argument. Every argument started with her death. I said that I respected BB as a great political mind, and this is my point of view that she surely didnt come here to lay her life for democracy, and neither did NS.
And when I was referring to NS arrival it was the first arrival, soon after which he was forced to fly to Jeddah. I was saying the army who didnt care for SC’s verdict could have easily killed him.

I would reserve my comments about his cowardice when he left but at the same time I would also consider other bold steps he took, like nuclear experiments.

Now as far as PPP’s “majbooris” are concerned, its the “majboori” of every politician now to do wot ppl of Pakistan and Media want. But my comment was in response to the notion that judges were released bcz of PM order(according to one of the PPP supporter here). The credit goes to the coalition govt and not to PM alone. whatever the govt. does now, is not the action of Gilani, or Sherry Rehman and for that matter any minister of pmln and/or ppp. Its a coalition govt. and everything is decided and done with joint agreement. so the credit goes to all parties in general and to the three leaders in particular.(NS AZ and AWK)

Another point regarding my “majboori” comment is : I want CJ to be restored (so does 80% of pakistanis do) so I will praise who ever takes the stand on this issue will be my man and bash whoever takes sides with dictator and foreign forces. Its not about AZ or NS, its about issues. I dont care how corrupt AZ was, as long as he delivers the wishes of people of Pakistan like he promised. same goes for other leaders.

Lastly, as far as speculation on implementaion of murree accord are concerned. I would only like to ask, why is it that media is speculating that PPP is backing off? why such an allegation is not put on NS? All I know abt pakistani politics right now is through media and mostly through posts on this site (letting you know that my speculation is based on that, and ground reality might be different).

Anyway, I am not a PPP basher, I wish and I pray that this govt does good things for our ppl. May Allah help them all to succeed. I m not an active supporter of any party, I am supporter of Pakistan and its people. If PPP does good for Pakistan then long live PPP and if they do anything against it then they may burn in hell. Same goes to all parties and people responsible.

Kinnare sahab, Thank you for the comment. Allah aap ko khush rakhay.