The only winners out of this is going to be PML-N … this will become clear in the next elections… which will be sooner than Mr. Zardar thinks…

NS is fit in the category of lesser evil at the moment but he is an ultimate benificiary in present scenario,got win-win situation like the way reports are comin:if cj’s term comes to 5 years than they will still win n even if upto 4 still,as no body gurantees that whether he will be opening cases on musharaf’s candidature or on NRO n on principles cj has got every right to open those cases.

zardari dont realy need any opposition to vanished his ppp,he is doin this job best of his capabilities.

TK mate,i would like you to read couple of investigative reports in todays jang/news and plz ellaborate on wt do u think about these reports.

cheers

@farhan

at the very core that is what the politics is all about
PPP is getting all the heat from civil society, lawyers
and while NS is getting all the good name and building his image as anti establishment

and I wonder there is still a perception that NS is bhoola bhaala

he is not bhoola bhaala at all but right now he is playing or some one can say reading the public’s pulse very good so he is gettin maximum score.

ppp is gettin heat coz of zardari’s dubious actions n i believe there r some good leaders in ppp likes of raza rabbani who definitely goin to put their weight in at some time

i am hopeful that things would come to a good conclusion even if cj’s term will turn out to be 5 years than its still o.k

the whole thing revovles around that stupid NRO,things would have been totally different if there was no NRO but now zardari is stuck with this NRO thing n i had heard some news that the case in switzerland is very mature and once NRO is gone he will be in the courts again.

so he has to see so many things,all those years we had been listening that politicians never came on one platform now this is the golden chance but there are compromises and give n take occurs.

i m not pessimist n i m lukin at the bright side,1 year is even enough for cj iftikhar to change the course of pakistan

Finally a LWT worth watching! good, incisive discussion all in all.. (light years ahead of that plane crash Dr. S. Masood hosted the other day)

@farhan: dude which pieces u’r talking about? the one’s @poola posted in the News&Views?

worth watching a second time

D’oh!!!

nawaz shaif is in win win situation u are right but its not that he is reading public pulse he wants to get rid of mush because mush kicked him out of this country .and 2nd thing he is not in govt. so he is not facing any pressure from usa or establishment, all pressure is on ppp because they are majority party and they dont want alliance with q leauge,aur nro ka ju jin tum logo nay ju nikalna hain nikal loon 11 years tak tu kuch prove nahi ho saka jub anti ppp govt thyee ub khak kuch prove karo gay

@malik123

wow,wt a point mate,if nothin has been proved for 11 years than wts the scary vision about now,if zardari is realy clean he should be standing in middle of the constitution ave n callin ppl to come n try me…..

but he aint every one knows that ,,,,,,

thats why he is gettin the scary vision of cj iftikar…….

digest as much money of public n than come with a clean sheet with the help of NRO n u r mr clean wow…….

in pakistani politics opposing something is more easier than sitting in govt, judges will be restored this month INSHALLAH,
THIS GOVT WILL DO EVRY THING WHICH IS IN FAVOUR OF COUNTRY LIKE TODAY THEY CEASE FIRED WITH TALIBAN, I REALLLY WANT NAWAZ SHARIF AND ZARDARI TO WORK TOGETHER TO SOLVE BIG PROBLEMS OF SMALL PROVINCES. BECAUSE RIGHT NOW FEDRATION OF PAKISTAN IS ON STAKE.LAST DICTATOR ZIA GAVE GIFTS OF GUNS, SECTERIANISM, KARACHI,AND HERION. AND THIS DICTATOR GAVE US BURNING NWFP, BURNING BALOCHISTAN,AND SUCIDE BOMBINGS

it seems nusrat javed has taken sum big check from zardari he has been trying to make judge issue unimportant by saying NS is overcommited to it. this is the single issue of pakistan which will help solve all other issues

Hasheen, PPP did not got single vote on Judges issue. Nusrat Javed has always been with PPP so he does not need check from Zardari.

wt did they get the vote for than………

democracy……

than wt was BB doin outside cj’s house just to get few votes

if thats not the case than wt…..

their biggest ever leader got killed n they couldn’t even cash in to get even simple majority…….

sad story if we link it upto some conspiracy that NS even with a little time put up such an effort to raise his seats from 17 to 91

Farhan, you are absultyl right PPP do particle politics they do not cash deaths. Please check out PPP menifesto where does it say that they will restored judge.Yes, it is said in PMLN menisfesto.

@farhan

well, it is true that PPP did not get the vote for restoration of CJ. this is just a fact though I am not much PPP fan but I admit it

“their biggest ever leader got killed n they couldn’t even cash in to get even simple majority…….”

now please be sensitive to other people emotions and dont use the words “cash the death of BB”

and just a minor correction, PPP biggest leader ever is ZA Bhutto.

than they shouldn’t had signed the bhurban accord………

if that wasn’t in their manifesto than why did they….

why dint you send SMS to zardari n told him this thing….

or was he too busy makin moves to come out of about 11 cases against him n made the biggest mistake of his life to get linked in with something which was never committed in their manifesto

Farhan, what BB said in front of CJ was correct. He is CJ of Pakistan even now PPP do not deny that but according to orginal constitution of 1973 CJ tenure was five years. And according to COD it also it is clearly stated.

Farhan, it seem you to naive to carry futher discusses.

@kinnare

just a minor correction
“according to original constitution of 1973 CJ tenure was five years”

There was an amendment, i think 5th amendment which limit that to 5 year. It was not in original 1973 constitution.

But I do agree with the principle that it should be for 5 years.

but what would you say if PPP change it for 3 yr?

that 5 yr limit was introduced in 1976

CONSTITUTION (FIFTH AMENDMENT) ACT, 1976
http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/constitution/amendments/5amendment.html

bring any discussion up mate,i m free tomorrow but dont just do talk of the talk comes with what had been said and the u-turns by zardari

i hav got no issues with cj’s turn gettin upto 5 years n i had mentioned in the first blog on LWT but never mind if u joined late

n also make sure you dont make personal remarks as i had not made any personal remarks about ur mind yet……

if you are out of words or kant support wt u r sayin with the records n facts than its not my fault,you got to do some more research n reading

but never mind

ppp is the greatest party n the judges issue is oversighted by NS

but nothin i can do about ppl in pakistan n especially lawyers they might wont listen to u n they are out of my reach n may be navie to carry further any other discussions.

but they are a binding force n nothin we kan do about them,i m in london otherwise i would had carry ur message to them

I am fine with minus two formula, if ONE is Musharaf and TWO is Dogger.

Don’t agree with NJ. Restoration of Judges is the desire of every Pakistani (excluding some people from Karachi).

ataraxis, eleven million people voted for PPP and make sure PPP did not get single vote for the restoration of JUdges.

@alifnoon,ataraxis6

guys you ppl are too naive bringing ppp n ppp sympathisers into discussions

ppp hasn’t got any thing in their manifesto about judges n still they wanted to diminish cj’s term to 3 years

kinnare might mind this n might call u naive as well.

Farhan, I am PPP worker for thirty years.

@farhan

I dont know about 3 yr limit because it is just speculation

but i do agree with the principle that there should be limit on CJ tenure and 5 yr is just very reasonable and it was the limit before 17th amendment

@alifnoon

absolutely right nothin wrong with this………….

but cj should give some gurantees as well to ppp as judges issue isn’t in their manisfesto n they are still restoring him….

a gurantee on NRO that he wont touch this case…………….

kinnare might put some light on it……….

@farhan
I don’t know why you bring NRO in the discussion
I believe this is not in any way a benefit to PPP

the cases were started in 1996 and it has been more then 11 yrs since these cases and zardari was also in jail during that time

Now when these cases were not proven even in Mush govt, then how come they could be proved in PPP govt. Remember the prosecution body is going to be PPP

Honest judges having strong character are hard to come by in Pakistan. If we manage to find one, it would be best to keep him around as long as we can (up to a certain age limit).

Why is a 3 or 5 year limit necessary? Does a judge become incapable of delivering justice after a certain period?

@ataraxis6

“Why is a 3 or 5 year limit necessary? Does a judge become incapable of delivering justice after a certain period?”

the limit is on Chief justice tenure, after tenure CJ can still work as senior justice and give justice
there is an age limit for justices and there is no objection on that. I would repeat your question here ” Does a judge become incapable of delivering justice after a certain period?”

@alifnoon

i dint bring this in at all,thats what coming into the news n in some investigative reports from some realy credible journalists…. i.e

ansar abbasi,talat hussain(who discussed in his recent programm)
tariq butt,umar cheema,rauf klasra n many more

n they had been openly namin the activities by naming three senators plus lawyers who had been pushing this issue against cj…..

so i was just talkin on facts nothin emergin on my own…..

“kinnare on April 24th, 2008 3:31 am

ataraxis, eleven million people voted for PPP and make sure PPP did not get single vote for the restoration of JUdges.”

Mr. Kinnare,

It is not just PPP but a vast majority of the PMLN voters also did not vote PMLN because of the restoration of judges. People who live in the villages dont even know the importance of free judiciary but they gave vote to PMLN for the hate of Musharaf and Chaudries.

It is only the educated class of Pakistan ( regardless of PPP, PMLN or even urdu speaking people) want the restoration of judges.

If you being a PPP supporter are making an argument because your leader Zardari is playing a double game and being a die hard party worker, you have to support him, than I can feel for you and understand where you coming from!!

@farhan

I also use NRO when I have argument with any PPP jayala
but the fact is PPP does not need NRO

I think the main beneficiary of NRO is MQM

sic5770, can you tell what double Zardari played ofcourse except not pleasing you.

@alifnoon

i never used this but i always bring it up when they come up with some legacy stuff like this is the only party n rest is juggling goin on in pakistan

Even if restoration of judges is not an issue for most Pakistanis and several major political parties didn’t it make a part of their election campaign, I am still glad that it is all over the news.

All political parties are feeling the pressure and it looks like for the first time in history, they will actually work with each other to do the right thing.

If people voted for PML-N and PPP because they hate Musharaf and PML-Q, why isn’t the coalition taking on Musharaf directly and getting rid of his cronies, instead of focusing on judges issue.

@ataraxis6

when Musharraf ousted Nawaz Sharif govt, ppl of lahore distributed sweet

This time they have learnt their lesson to not to fall for the famous slogan

qadam burhaooo Nawaz sharif
hum tumharay saath hein

@ataraxis6

here you go again,

lets talk about the records n facts again….. should we

just recently in a press conference NS said quote”we wanted to take on musharaf,zardari is takin it slow”

and zardari replies”as we are scared to take on him”

so now who should we blame as ppl of pakistan……..

ppp or pml-n or lawyers………..

@ataraxis6

lets talk about the records n facts again….. should we

just recently in a press conference NS said quote”we wanted to take on musharaf,zardari is takin it slow”

and zardari replies”as we are scared to take on him”

so now who should we blame as ppl of pakistan……..

ppp or pml-n or lawyers………..

Caller from Sahiwal was bang on. Restoration of CJ is the main issue. Everything else depends on restoration of CJ, exit of Mush. Otherwise we will go back to status quo and same mush and same usa dicatation. NJ should face the reality and stop spreading these wrong ideas that CJ restoration is not the most important issue.

Benazir- Her life in Pictures(Childhood,Premiersip & family)

@kinnare,malik

found a video which may be u had seen before,she was a true leader

oops forgot the link

Nusrat Bhuto oops Nusrat Javed has become so biased that I would have stopped watching this show if Mushtaq Minhas is not there.

MM is right on spot when he said that from 2-3 days you kept saying that “judges restoration is not core issue”.. This PPP clown keeps doing shows on this issue but when gets his master AZ instruction he totally dances on other tune. I was shocked when he said that “judges restoration is only issue of Urban Panjab”

All those who are justifying that since PPP didn’t any vote for judges restoration hence morally they are not bound to do so if I buy this argument, could you please explain why PPP is supporting Moshe, did it get vote for it’s pro-moshe stance?

Kinnare sahab, Allah aap ko khush rakhay. In a previous post you advised me to take “lots of years of education”. so respecting your advise I am starting my education.
Sir, can you please tell me, how many of these 11 million voters can and did read the manifesto. Now being an “uneducated” person, I listen to her speeches on TV and stage etc, and I am sure most of the 11 million voters too rely on her speeches more than manifesto (I might be wrong, please correct me if not so).
In her speeches she did promise restoration of CJ and said Iftikhar Choudhry is her CJ. we still keep hearing that statement over and over on GEO.
Now in your -April 24th, 2008 3:16 am- post, you said that PPP recongnize Ifthikhar Choudhry as CJ, so this means there is no need for debate as we all agree.
But kinnare sahab, please educate me why do they have to limit the tenure and linger on this issue, bcz principally you agreed on restoration (even though its not in manifesto, Allah aap ko ajar de is “ihsaan” ka).
Lastly kinnare sahab, you mentioned about being a worker of PPP for 30 years, wow, I am impressed really, and since I want to educate myself, and you can clearly see, you are sort of my role model , I have a hypothetical questipm for you. If PPP takes an action thats against interests of Pakistan, or delivers a statement that is not in Pakistan’s interest, will you still keep supporting them? Its a hypothetical question, just to educate myself on principles. Bcz you never know what kind of leadership PPP might get as there is no say of public in choosing the leader, rather its passed on by generations like a dynasty or kingdom.

Thank you kinnare sahab.

One more thing kinnare sahab, please know that I am not a supporter of any party, and some ppl did call me “PPP basher” bcz I raised some questions regarding their conduct. But I assure you, I am not against PPP. I pray for this party and their coalition partners to do good for our country.

Salman Saeed Sahib..

The tenure issue came up because CJ’s tenure limit was removed in 17th amendment (it used to be 5 years)….According to COD 17th amendment shall be repealed (both parties have signed and agree on all the provisions of COD)…therefore, since IAC is one of beneficiaries of 17th amendment, his tenure will be effected when both the parties implement a provision of COD….which will be after the restoration……..

The question is how NS will deal with this issue..because he is committed to COD as much as he is committed to muree accord…..i think both the parties agree on one thing…restore the judges and then implement COD……

@ savage.

you said NJ is so biased that you have stopped watching the show….am sure you have this common with Mush….he doesn’t watch the show as well ;-)))

i hav got no idea why ppp supporters kept on emphasizing on C>O>D n likin it with cj’s term

who ever has read that document n all the 36 points,r they goin to ellaborate on when these 2 parties will goin to start working on the other points of C.O.D

let me put in couple of points,

defence budget comes into parliament,would they able to do it

national security council abolishment,would they able to do it

The Concurrent List in the Constitution will be abolished. A new NFC award will be announced

All military and judicial officers will be required to file annual assets and income declarations like Parliamentarians to make them accountable to the public.

these are only few points i had mentioned here but there are 35 different points which relates directly to the so called establishment and our status quo forces but ppp is just stuck on one issue of judiciary which realy gives the message that they actually realy realy scare to go on to the right forces instead of gettin after judiciary.

that C.O.D gives the clear indication that who should realy ppp should go after……

it is not only Mushy who is doing sazish against Sharif-Zardari alliance. The sazish is also being hatched by rejectionists such as Imran Khan and Qazi Hussain Ahmad, and their mouth piece, Ansar Abbasi. Ansar Abbasi is at the pay list of some anti-Pakistan agencies.

Mush is not going.
CJP’s tenure will be axed.
Army is still powerfull as ever.
Still killings in Karachi.
Still we have shortage of ATA!! how much time it takes to fix this shortage? WTF
Then what has changed in this new government?
I cant believe some of Political Parties still havnt learned any thing from the past. Still dont want an independent judiciary…why?

Aitezaz Ahsan nominated among FP’s top 100 intellectuals from the world. Votes reqd by May 15 to bring him into Top 20. Lets do it!

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4262

Read below link to find out how much our beloved president and his Wife costing us.

http://thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=14296

@ Paf123

Thank you for your elaboration, but allow me to rephrase my question. We dont know for sure but speculations on media are that CJ’s term is being reduced to 4 or 3 years. I am fine with 5 years term. removing 17th amendment will restore the tenure to 5 years (as you said) but why reduce it further to 3 or 4 years? that was my question actually.

nice to hear justice javeed iqbal and hope to see him back soon.

“kinnare on April 24th, 2008 4:04 am

sic5770, can you tell what double Zardari played ofcourse except not pleasing you.”

Even a preschooler knows what kind of game Zardari has been involved from day one. You cant see these games, because you are stuck to anal phase of life and never moved to preschool.

By the way, my basic instincts are quite DIFFERENT and difficult than you, so it is hard for Zardari to please me!!

Caution…..dont trust this JUSTICE JAVED IQBAL…….he is a black sheep among judges………he is from mush league…….he didnt take oath under pco but was the one who broke the news to mush party that decision is going to be against mush…………he pretends to be pro justice but he is pro establishment……………..
he snitched and the result was emergency…………..then he was nominated chairman or whatever of press organisation .

@kinnare

even if tomorrow zardari n co. ligitimise musharaf’s coup de’tat of nov 3rd,u n others ppl like u i.e:NJ,imtiaz alam would most likely to bring up some new theories oh luk you see we dont need to rock the boat n we hav got no choice……

pakistan is goin through crisis,when an elected pm of ppp kan bash away in parties n in which the guest of honour would be the same president who had screwed the a$$ of the same pm for 5 years than wt more you kan expect from a ppp government……..

n dnt forget this same pm has got a woman from his own city who was just about to sold her 5 kids coz of poverty n still ppl suffering for ATTA…..

they aint learnt any lesson…..n they are pushing things to the limits now

i think things will be good in near futur, if zaradari don’t want CJ IFT.CH back, then there are so many problemes for govt, and zaradari, NS is not going to accept this becoze he is really a public man, he is a politican who thinks for country and futur of counrty. zaradari have to do so otherwise they will be in great troubles, lawyers, political workers of all ither parties and people of pakistan will be on the roads to islamabad and they will distabilize the govt……. so if PPP want to continue for 5years they must restore all juges even they want or not to do so

i am afraid that Nusrat Bhutto (Javed) will be able to safe zardari and PPP crooks by his statement

“yeh judges punjab ka masla hay” i have not heard such a idiotic statement from any body before……he is proving to be a real idiot by making such statements…..and i appreciate that Mushtaq siad ok 80 million people live in punjab so if it is punjabs problem so solve it…

NJ do not try to polarize people on ethnic basis by giving these stupid statements…i think you also need that “chitrol” which sher afgan got……then you will understand whose problem is this…

there should be absolutely no respect for people who wanna keep this country in darkness regardless they are politician like zardari, altaf, fazlu , chaudries etc . or media person like NJ and Imtiatz Aalam…..or lawyers like Awan, Khosa and Naik…..

this is getting really annoying. They should’ve reinstated the judges by now, and also kicked musharraf out but no significant decisions except recent dialogues with tribal people.

#1: Isn’t amazing people are talking to shorten the tenure of a legally appointed Judge but not talking to kick out an illegal president.
#2 An illegal president took one moment to kick out 60 jugdes and here peoples representative taking tooooooo long to revert it!
#3 There is understanding between PPP(basically Asif Zardari and Rahman Malikk) and Pervaiz musharraf and that’s why pervaiz is quite, zardari’s cases are being withdrawn, BA condition is gone, death sentence is being eliminated. Infact theses committees are way of procrastinating and to buy time. Eventually they(PPP) won’t trestore , or restore judges with stupid conditions or they will sit quite if there is stay order by this illegitimate judiciary. Eventually zardari will become prime minister with help of MQM and forward blocks. Nawaz sharif will be on streets with lawyers, civil society and APDM. Thus another five years will be gone.
#4 Now zardai will distract people that actual problem is energy and food crises not the judiciary. well why not you restore them as it will just take one moment and focus on main issues.

Nusrat sahib I agree with you. Pakistan main problem is not Judicary restoration, Baluchistan’s problem i far worse. Similar are crises like food and energy and terroriris. But did you think what’s the root cause.? No independent and trustable judiciary. No fear of law. No law and order. If there is free judiciary can you kill nawab Bugti? can you arrest Akhtar megal? can you make 100’s of people dispappear without charges? can you smuggle wheat in and out? can you import and export wheat atyour will to get profit? can you sell national institutions in a free sale to your friends? can there be a 12th may, 18th october, 27th decenber and 9th april without investigation and punishment? can there be pardon of 100’s of cases against dozen’s of people by just one ordinance by one person?
In the end I would like to quote the hadith the meaning of which are like” no nation is going to survive without justice.” we lost east pakistan because of this and Godforbid we are again at the same stage. We should stop looking at these so called leaders and should take initiative by ourself. Best exmple is lawyers and civilsociety. That’s how we can make change and bring our other brothers out of this dismal condition.

100’s of People are missing in Baloachistan and who was the person to take notice? Answer Mr. CJ Chaoudhary.

This is BS to say judiciary restoration is not a big issue - it is rather the biggest issue. Untill you have honest judges in place dictators like Mush will make innocent people disappear always. Honest judiciary would have blocked NRO, honest judiciary would have declared Mush as illegel….

Nusrat Javaid and Hamid Mir are fast becoming ‘lufafa journislists’.

Read this: http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/apr2008-daily/25-04-2008/col1.htm