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April 29, 2008
April 29, 2008
Discuss: Judicial Crisis
Please discuss your concerns and views on the current judicial crisis and the role of politicians in this regard.
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490 Responses to “Discuss: Judicial Crisis”
@kruman
from PPP to ZZZ ! eh?
The struggle has to continue… the people will win! “mandate groupies” aka Chooran Brigade will have to lick their wounds.
Breaking News: (AAJ TV)
Judges can not be restored by a resolution in parliament: Sheri Rehman
Judges should be restored ASAP: Nawaz Sharif
Get Ready for Rustam -i -Zaman Dangal
Chief of Pakistan Muslim League-N, Mian Muhammad Nawaz Sharif Tuesday said “we want Pakistan related matters to be settled within the country and for this I am heading Dubai to hold one to one talks with Asif Zardari.”
@Rashid: Well Said…. !!!
The struggle must go on and gain further momentum. The forces of darkness, backed by the army, Moshe, MQM, PML-Q, are trying to make sure that masses start to show an indifference attitude if this movement is dragged on for too long and finally it will slowly die its own death. This must not happen.
@ Rashid
lol, this is not what NS said. Geo needs to get some good translators…
@tk
yeh woh sehar tho nahin kay jis ki arzoo lay kar
chalay thay yaar kay mil jai ghi manzil kahin na kahin
correct me if i misquoted faiz
@Amir Hameed
your choice of the forces of darkness is amusing. you did not include the following in this list: ANP, PPP, PML-N, JI, JUI and PTI.
any good reason?
AZ stance on judiciary
- Judges will not be restored to 2 Nov state
- Signing and announcement of Bhurban agreement by AZ in front of the nation was just a political joke …….with people of Pakistan
-AZ is taking revenge from Judiciary for his personal hardship (infact for looting nations money to build palaces in Dubai UK and US) and by doing that infact he is taking revenge from people of Pakistan and these people include foremost jyalas of PPP …..who laid there lives in Karachi with the new bedfellows of PPP aka MQM
- ‘The restoration package’ means that judiciary will be made subservient and will perhaps never be able to say NO to even a local politician ….never mind the general.
- The golden opportunity of judiciary being truly powerful and independent is lost
- CJP if restored will be either powerless or will retire within a short time after restoration
Its perhaps AZ’s Pakistan after Mush!……He only wants one more chance………….. to add further $1b to his personal assets and then disappear to Dubai/US without check from judiciary…..while families of late jyalaa’s get 1,000 Rupee per family (as reportedly happened in Khi)
As I said in another post and offended some people that anybody who believed in restoration of judges within 30 days was STUPID. People, the fight is on for last 60 years and it will go on for a foreseeable future. I have know people who go in for one street protest and think they have done their job.
This matter won’t be settled till people don’t come on streets in a similar fashion of Orange Revolution. If NS does not announce a long march to the Rawalpindi, then we have to find people who will.
@kafka8
semi-correct version is this:
yeh woh sehar tu nahin jis ke aarzoo lay kar
chalay thay yaar kay mil jaaye gee kahin na khin
falak kay dasht mein taaroon kee akhri manzil
kahin tu hooga shab-e-sust mooj ka sahil
kahin tu ja kay rukay ga safina-e-gham-e-dil
jawan lahoo kee purisrar shahrahoon say
chalay joo yaar tu daaman per kitnay haath paray
diyaar-e-husn kee be-sabr khwaab gaahoon say
pukarti rahi bahaain badn bulaatay rahay
buhat aziz thee laikin rukh-e-sehar kee lagan
buhat qareen that haseenaan noor ka daman
subak subak thee tamanna , dabi dabi thee thakan
ye to hona hi tha, sara qasoor bewaqoof or be-zameer awam ka he , jino ne pehle se 2,2 dafa azmae hue PPP or PMLN ko vote dia. kiyun ? is se to musharaf hi acha he, wo jo kerta he ya jo us ne kia , wo kehta bi he ke , ,,, jamea hifza ka operation sahii tha, judges ki dismissal sahii thi,,,,,,,,, lakin ye be zameer ppp or pmln, dono hi kehte kuch hen , dhoka dette hen or bad me karte kuch hen……… in ki to nature or khaslat hi yahi he to ino ne to wohi kerna he jo aaj tak kerte aye hen or kerte rahen ge,, sara qasoor awam ka he, jino ne in ko vote dia,,,,,,,,,, ppp and pmln dono KAAF LEAGUE ki B teem hen, jo uno ne kia ya bi wohi ker rahe hen or kren ge, lanat he ppp or pmln ke leadrran pe or sab se bari lanat he BE-ZAMEER AWAM per,,,,, usman khan spain..0034-634101023
@ all
If one synchronized swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too?
I believe NS should join Lawyers on the street for ” Dam dama dum” and let that snake drown like titanic……..
Snake snake snake ………
Plz give this nation a break
You’re pethetic and Fake……
@kafka8: no but close.. it is a Faiz gif.. lol
I mean what I tried to post.. but its not showing up
@ rejectionists @ usman khan
at least Mr. Usman Khan of Spain is much braver than all rejectionists because he said what the rejectionists want to say but are shy of saying:
“sara qasoor bewaqoof or be-zameer awam ka he , jino ne pehle se 2,2 dafa azmae hue PPP or PMLN ko vote dia.”
so much the worth of people and their mandate?
down with rejectionists establishment islamic fanatics alliance. Total vote: a few thousand; ambitions unlimited.
muje samaj nahi atti ke BANAZIR SAHIBA ke zardari or musharraff ke hathon murder ke bad, ppp ko to vote dene ka kia jawaz banta tha,, benazir ke bad kon ppp ko chala sakta he,, bhutto ko phansi mili to benazir ne sambhal lia ppp ko,,,,,,,,,, ab benazir ke bad kon he jo ppp ko deal ker sakta he, lakin chunke ppp ke sare ke sare hami, ya man-ne wale jo hen wo sab jahil hen, ghreeb log hen, or lakeer ke faqeeer hen jino ne vote ppp ko dia. ab khud to ppp ko vote dene wale jahil or bezameer log khud to maza chakh rehe hen lakin apne sath sath sari qom ko marwwa rahe hen ppp or pmln ke hathon……..ppp or pmln ka kala kirdar or be-imani sab ke samne hote hue kiyun in ko vote dia gia,,,,,,,,,,,, ab lo maze bezameer logo,,,,,,,, pakistan ke awam jahil or lanti hen,,,,,, agar jahil na hote to kam az kam is bar PMLN or khas tor per PPP ko vote na kerte,,,,,,,,,,,,,, in ka sar or ini ke joote ,,,, shabash,,,,,,,isi laiq hi hen hamre awam,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
usman khan spain.0034-634101023
@drink a glass a water bro! No need to lose it like this …
@pejamistri & tk
thanku….for the correction…
and enconfused…you seem to be right….isn’t it sad..??
why isnt nawaz not quitting the government and giving a call of long march simultaneously to army house, prime minister house and(president house supreme court parliament house and pak secretariat, all are located at the sam place,so they should be included as well)
Second Try:
….
….
i wish not to be freee judges because, when nawaz shareef was deported after the supreme court order, then this stupid CHIEF JUSTICE, did not do anything, when BATERA AFGAN NIAZI, barked at supreme court, this supreme court did not do any action,,,,,,,,,, so supreme court just can do against the poor people, and week people,,,,,,, if this judges can not take any action against officials , so it is better that we should live on this DOGAR SUPREME COURT, i even should say CANGROO COURTS of dogar sab……….. usman khan spain-0034-634101023.
@ well done Usman Khan…
“agar jahil na hote to kam az kam is bar PMLN or khas tor per PPP ko vote na kerte,,,,,,,,,,,,,, in ka sar or ini ke joote”
also please educate this ‘jahil awam’, who should we have voted for?
@usman khan on April 29th, 2008 6:03 pm
Bhai , ab is Jurm main tow PML-N ko shamil na karo.
PPP is deviating from the promise
PMLN ko bhee zaroor Regrra lagana, jab wo is tara karay.. lekin tab agar PPP honest hue tow it would be unfair to blame PPP then.
keep the record straight,plz.
good commentary at current situation:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2008/04/080429_political_scene_aamer_rh.shtml
MQM Transvestite Media Cell Alert!
@Atif
Mushy’s law minister Zahid Hamid is a part and parcel of PML-N and a sitting MNA, by the way.
Political interests are linked to each other through a complex cob-web. On the center storm lies the judicial crisis at the moment. PPP too, as it holds to power. PPP wouldnt want the judges to be restored for obvious reasons. However, a fallout from Murree declaration would give leverage to other political forces to join the Lawyers movement. NS is simply going to fall off from the government and right on to the shoulders of the lawyers and awaam; who are immune to be abused by fake sympathizers. It would be interesting to see that how Imran Khan would interface with the rest of the political parties during that episode. For him and his party, it would be the final test before any future elections. ANP, most probably, shall also come down to streets.
It would be too naive to assume that PPP wouldnt have done its fair share of homework on the consequences it may have to face as a result. It would be quite interesting to see how they handle the situation. Following a normal line of thinking, not restoring the judges would be diabolical for the already dilapidating PPP.
tund diya bade-mukhalif nay saray ukab
wo samajtay rahay ya chalti hai uncha uranay kay liya
I think that the judges issue and MiB (men in black) have created a good democratic momentum in Pakistan and have made the issue of fair & free law and justice a public issue; although its influence on the well being of a common man can be argued. Any way their struggle is worth praising and supporting.
This said b4 last year it was most of these judges and MiB who helped in destoying our country. They were all in for setting the course towrds Marshal Law and dictatorship and were in the laps of dictators having “chusney” of promotions, money, their family getting benefits etc. They gave green signal to “Nazarya-e-Zarorat” & made sure judicial murder of most popular and intelligent leader of our country. Thousands of charges of such wrong doings on these judges and MiB gang and they have never apologized for this to us. Now they should wait and feel how it is being victimized. It is their time of learning lesson practically; and they should as law keepers!!!
It seems for the good of Pakistan that Army, Judiciary, Media, Politicians, and not least the Masses are being “corrected” in a tough way. This is what was needed for a long time. The first two now have to make ready few “qurbani ke bakrey/ bakriya’n ” as the later two have been doing “qurbanis” for many decades. While for Media is in between both good and bad….
@ralo99 on April 29th, 2008 6:14 pm
First call is due from Aitezaz Ehsan and the lawyers community.
After 30 Apr after AA,Lawyers and civil Society call ,
These are the pre requisites.
Only then a protesting or long march call should be expected from IK,JI,Achakzai and NS.
Expecting earlier to the pre-requisites is not fair.
Most of our so called LEADERS cannot afford FREE AND INDEPENDENT JUDICIARY and thats why they are making all this mess up on the RE-INSTATEMENT of the judiciary.There are no LEGAL issues to worry about becoz SUPREME COURT has declared the musharraf unconstitutional act as null and void on the 2nd of november.then whats the problem?PPP,s LEADERSHIP is the answer.
AZ claims that ppl votted him for ROTI,KAPRA aur MAKAAN and not for the RESTORATION OF JUDICIARY.Is a FREE AND INDEPENDENT JUDICIARY is in contrast wid PPP,s agenda for ROTI,KAPRA & MAKAAN?
More than 80% of pakistanies want CJ IFTIKHAR and his team back but the LEADERS who are the outcome of NROs & DEALs are scared to be judged by the judges who are brave enough to say NO to a military general.
But let me assure AZ that this may be his last oppertunity to lead this nation otherwise PPP dont have the CHARISMATIC BHUTTOS anymore and if it loose its anti-establishment and pro-ppl stance than only heaven could save it from a total failure.
Let me assure all those who think they can decide the destiny of nation 160 million strong that PAKISTAN AND PAKISTANI NATION is destined to rise to the GLORY.
PAKISTAN ZINDA BAAD
Mr.usman khan
ur bloody jahil not the ppl of pakistan, what the hell you think that u live in spain and ppl who live in pak are jahil. you ppl live there as a REFUGE and claim boolshit. you F…IN IDIOT.
if ….if zardari sticks with the establishment and the empire…i hope all serious ppp leaders form a PPP forward bloc…led by aitezaz or amin faheem and join PML-N….this forward PPP bloc would include ..could include the old PPP stalwarts….save PPP from going ZZzzzzz
mr piano,,,,,,,,, me musharrf se sari dunya se bar ker nafrat kerta hoon., awam vote dette hen polititions ko ke wo siasat kren, iqtadar me aa ker to apne mulak ke lie siyasat kren, mulak torne walo ke khilaf, jo mulak de dushman hen un ke sath siasat kren,,,,,,,,, lakin ye jahil sisat dan jin ke chehron se hi lanat barasti he,, shakal se hi chor lagte hen, in ka masla ye he ke ye apne mulak ke logon se hi siasat kerna shuru ker dette hen.,, uni se siasat kerna shuru ker dette hen jin ke voton ki kherat se jholi bhar ker iqtadar men atte hennnnnnnnn,,,,,,,,,mr piano,, zara gor kren ke ,, ye ppp or pmln ke mpa or mna ya jo bi hen,, vote lene ke bad kamyab hone ke bad,,apne mohalle ke kissi aam admi se salam to door ki bat, uni ke kie hue salam ka jawab bi dena gawar nahi kerte,, to jo jog salam ka jawab de ker islami fareeza poora nahi kerte, wo age ja ker kia khaaq kam kren ge,,,,,,,,,,,,,usman khan spain.-0034-634101023
@kafka8
i think you are expecting too much of MAF.
AA, frankly I think he won’t take a leading role against this government.
Will NS quite the coalition? My guess, no.
Aa jao Afreeka!
http://www.urducl.com/pages/969-416-216-002/p0228.gif
http://www.urducl.com/pages/969-416-216-002/p0229.gif
@usman khan
I like the name you gave to me - Mr Piano. It is very musical. Thank you.
i agree with your analysis.
what do you think about those modern philosophers whose aim is to break this country, break the federation of Pakistan?
@paindoo
i dont think so paindoo….to stick with zardari…is render his party neutered…
zardaro …zardari nro…has made a fool out of him…
sigh…a heartbroken PPPist supporter.
jis khaet say deHQaaN ko muyassar na ho rozi
us khaet kay har KhoSha-e gaNdum ko jalaa do
If your masters don’t let us earn a decent living, we WILL FOKK UP their little PAJAMA PARTY!
And _THAT_ is a Promise!
jis khaet say deHQaaN ko muyassar na ho rozi
us khaet kay har KhoSha-e gaNdum ko jalaa do
If your masters don’t let us earn a decent living, we _WILL_ FROCK UP their little PAJAMA PARTY!
And _THAT_ is a Promise!
@paindoo on April 29th, 2008 6:21 pm
Mr. Zahid Hamid has taken the oath of the office of Federal Minister on April 25, 2006 and has been assigned the portfolio of Ministry of Privatisation & Investment. He was elected as Member National Assembly of Pakistan from NA-114 Sialkot-V as a candidate of Pakistan Muslim League (Quaid-e-Azam). He became Minister of State for Defense in September 2004.
But what is the concern of all this???
Now one will say ,NS brought Mushi
so its all Ns’s fault
ZAB brought Zia.. so??
God knows, but generaly it is known that Mushi is much intelligent than Zia.
NS brought an intelligent person at least….
I repeat, WHAT IS THE CONCERN OF THIS ALL AT THIS MOMENT??
@kafka8
“a heartbroken PPPist supporter.”
somehow I could smell that.
sometimes I too feel that way, but then….these rejectionists and Mullahs… I don’t want to give in to their agenda.
peace.
Iftikhar Chaudhry’s supremee court is guilty on a number of accounts but most notably:
Why did they not act swiftly and blocked the election process of musharraf… what is the great logic behind letting the elction go forward and THEN later decide on the elctability of the winner.. !!
mmodykhan
Sniff! sniff!
WHAT..A..PERFORMANCE!! Aaah! how glorious the psyops!
is baar jis ne bi awam se kia hua wada poora na kia to us ka haal bi wohi ho ga, jo chief minister of insutling the supreme court and BAD-TAMEEZY, mr, BATERA AGZAN NIAZI, y phir KALA KAWA, ka hua tha,, wo to chalo musharf sab ne in dono ke kale kartooton ki waja se in ko apne bando se hi mar parw di.. lakin ab ki bar ppp or pmln walon ka jo hal hona he, usi tra hi ho ga lakin is bar police nahi, awam in ka aisa hal kren ge,,,,,,,,,, dekh lena, insah Allah,,,,,,,,,
@paindoo
i understand real politik….but then one has to rise above the fray…why kill the hope..???
insofar as the mullahs , military , and mqm (MMM) is concerned, i totally agree with you.
but define rejectionists? the drawing room types??
what zardari is doing…is rejecting the party worker vision…i tell u he is destroying PPP
@Atif
you conveniently failed to include in your list that Mr Zahid Hamid was actually the Law Minister when Mushy imposed emergency (martial law) and arrested judges last year.
This document by Amnesty International might help.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/ASA33/034/2007/en/dom-ASA330342007en.html
@kafka8: dude stop wasting time on agency ppl. One day they post as MQM supporters.. the next as PPP … The point is to distract from the conversation…
@paindoo on April 29th, 2008 6:34 pm
I am afraid you are right to some extent.
…. expecting too much of MAF…
RIGHT
AA, frankly I think he won’t take a leading role against this government.
50-50
Will NS quite the coalition? My guess, no.
I think NO..But this is not concerned,Question should have been…
Will PMLN leave ministries?
@tk
i noted the word choice too…’smell’ ..hmmmm
Mr. Zardari, without INSAAF there is no Roti, Kapra aur Makaan.
Only an independent Judiciary can ensure that there are no Food, Land, education Mafias.
The bottom line is that the people want the Judges restored. If PPP doesnt like it then their stay in power will be short lived.
@kafka
by rejectionists, i mean those who don’t have guts to participate in the electoral process (e.g. IK, JI, pseudo-modern intellectuals from right, left and centre) of even if they participate, their vote bank remains much thinner than their ambitions.
AZ: I have some concerns….but I will rather wait for some time before thorwing in my support for rejectionists….
I think the best thing is to wait for the period of the mandate, i.e. 5 years. If people did not like PPP and PML-N, I am sure they will throw them out.
Judges restoration only through constitutional package: Sherry
ISLAMABAD: Minister for Information and Broadcasting Ms. Sherry Rehman said has said judges reinstatement is possible only through a constitutional package and not with a resolution.
Talking to media here on Tuesday, she said an act of Parliament is necessary in this regard.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=44556
mr cheema,
for ur information, if i live in spain or abroad , it is our compution, iam not living with my joyness, i am working to fight against life and for my better future, but my ORNA BICHONA is pak, what should i call if not jahil.what was the reason to vote in this situation, to ppp, while benazir sahiba was killed………… who can deal good the ppp according to the will and dreems of the peoples.. zardari ????’ what can he do,? nothing accept to lie the people and cheeting,,,,,,,,, if i live in spain, my thinking , my heart beats with the movement of pak, i hate abroad, i am not happy i am not proud of bieng abroad,, but i should speak and educated the people of pak, that when they will awake? when they will understand these polititions,, all the time only same faces are ruling.,, why ? ppp and pmln were given two times opportunities to serve the people,, but they did not do any thing,, KAKH PAN KE DO NAI KEETA. so awam should read these polititions,,,,,,,, they did not read the fake faces of ppp and pmlnand now they are repenting
usman khan
@atif
yes..they will..PML_N will let go of the ministries and if no new elections then you can see what coalition was waiting in the wings all along…and that is what zardaNro was playing for….mqm in karachi…ugh…and pml-q in fed.
get this…anp will also quit..in my opinion…if…IF…AA, MAF and others rise to the challenge..the lawyers…the students…will come out..
now is the time to fight the establishment…so be it if it has to be done with the help of NS. faujistan ban kay rahega pakistan ( so be it if i am naive)
@kafka8
did you have a chance to read Haroon-ur-Rasheed’s column in today’s Exress…. perhaps no party is going to quit….not even PML-N (i know it is a bad news for rejectionists)…
Faujistan will inshallah become Pakistan. But people will do this job, not the rejectionists.
kafka, let time be the judge.
judges ko har hal me bahal hona chahye, ye aik jang he musharaff ke batil or awam or qanoon ke haqq ke darmian.lakin mera khadsha ye he ke kia ye judges jin ko bahal kia jane ki umeed hi he. agar to ino ne pehle ki tara siraf gareeb or kamzor ko hi TOHEE-E-ADALAT lagani he or taqatwar ko kuch nahi kehna to phir to bahal kerni ki koi JAROORAT nahi he, kiyun ke dogar sab ki CANGROO COURTS pehle hi mushar ke AIEN ke mutabiq khoob dum hila ker kam apne aieni freeze anjam de rahi he,,,,,,,,,,,lakin agar kuch kerna he to ker ke dikhana bi pre ga,, or mera khiyal he ke jo juditiory se galtian hui hen shayad Allah ne un ko moqa dia he ke wo apni islah ker len or sahi or jald fasle kren,,,,,,,,,, usman khan
main nay kaha keh bazme naz ghair say chahiyay tahi
sun kar sitam zareef nay mujh ko utha diya keh yun
@paindoo, tk, and pejamistri
nisaar mai.n terii galiyo.n ke ae watan, ki jahaa.N
chalii hai rasm ki koii na sar uThaa ke chale
jo koii chaahanewaalaa tawaaf ko nikale
nazar churaa ke chale, jism-o-jaa.N bachaa ke chale
hai ahl-e-dil ke liye ab ye nazm-e-bast-o-kushaad
ki sang-o-Khisht muqayyad hai.n aur sag aazaad
bahot hai.n zulm ke dast-e-bahaanaa-juu ke liye
jo cha.nd ahl-e-junuu.N tere naam levaa hai.n
bane hai.n ahl-e-hawas muddaii bhii, mu.nsif bhii
kise wakiil kare.n, kis se mu.nsifii chaahe.n
magar guzaranewaalo.n ke din guzarate hai.n
tere firaaq me.n yuu.N subh-o-shaam karate hai.n
bujhaa jo rauzan-e-zi.ndaa.N to dil ye samajhaa hai
ki terii maa.ng sitaaro.n se bhar gaii hogii
chamak uThe hai.n salaasil to hamane jaanaa hai
ki ab sahar tere ruKh par bikhar gaii hogii
Garaz tasavvur-e-shaam-o-sahar me.n jiite hai.n
giraft-e-saayaa-e-diwaar-o-dar me.n jiite hai.n
yuu.N hii hameshaa ulajhatii rahii hai zulm se Khalq
na unakii rasm naii hai, na apanii riit naii
yuu.N hii hameshaa khilaaye hai.n hamane aag me.n phuul
na unakii haar naii hai na apanii jiit naii
isii sabab se falak kaa gilaa nahii.n karate
tere firaaq men ham dil buraa nahii.n karate
Gar aaj tujhase judaa hai.n to kal baham ho.nge
ye raat bhar kii judaaii to koii baat nahii.n
Gar aaj auj pe hai taala-e-raqiib to kyaa
ye chaar din kii Khudaaii to koii baat nahii.n
jo tujhase ahd-e-wafaa ustavaar rakhate hai.n
ilaaj-e-gardish-e-lail-o-nihaar rakhate hai.n
When PPP was fighting for the restoration of chief Justice iftikhar Chaudhry, I never heard from them about any constitutional package, neither in COD nor in Murree-Bhurban Declaration. May be… I could believe many of the PPP leaders believe in restoration of judiciary and most of them would be wanting it to occur in a quiet manner. But who listens to their opinion … they haven’t been heard since Zardari has taken over this party. By the way I believe that they were never heard even before Zardari. But that’s not the question.
A party who has been brought to power by the deal in the form of NRO can be thought of how strong it could represent people of Pakistan. This party is finding it hard to face the cases against its leaders even when they are in power. That shows how important was NRO for them. Otherwise I believe you would have found the clean leadership of PPP on the stage.
@usman khan
may Allah bless you. don’t let the hope die.
also, beware of rejectionists who are working agaist the federation of Pakistan and are planning to bring a revolution in their ‘drawing rooms’
Fortunately or Unfortunately NS can not be blamed since it is Zardari-Musharraf group who has taken over the Government. Zardari cleverly has kept all the a-d-m-i-n-istrative ministries with ZZZ league, I think they won’t even allow other parties like PML(N) ANP or other allied to interfere in these matters and would decide all these matters in consultation with Mush.
As suggested in various articles being put on these days that Mr. Zardari is tied so much deep into NRO and the foreign promises that this was bound to happen. I for once got fooled also like the rest of Pakistan that indeed living in prision might have changed him and he was working for a bigger cause. He fought the elections against PML-Q and even MQM and even made some vague attacks at Mr. Mush but the fix was already in. PML-N surprised every one by bagging so many seats thanks to the stead-fast stand of Mian Nawaz Sharif. Now the thing is what is at stake for NS as we must not forget that the Saudis did make him agree to some “do not disturb” promises before he was flows back. If by tomorrow Zardari sticks to his ground (actually he is not sticking and is backtracking) and there is not even a secondary date announced then NS will have no choice but to quit the ministries and be ready for a PPP and Q league coupe in Punjab also. All this means along with the talks with TTP dying down and if Justice Iftikhar does not get house arrested that we will be returning to the horror and hell of the not to distant past. It is really tragic and disheartining to see that Mr. Zardari and his cronies are taking down Pakistan on a road that we all know leads to no where. Alas we have again missed the boat.
Would anyone define the meaning of rejectionist? I think it is a person or a group of people who can reject any argument. So it corresponds more to the voters.
@Tanweer Amjad
nice analysis.
“Zardari cleverly has kept all the a-d-m-i-n-istrative ministries with ZZZ league”
Could you please identify those a-d-m-i-n-istrative ministries which PPP have got versus those with the PML-N.
Remember PPP has been denying any deal with Mush whereas it was underway during the last 4 years.
@kafka8:
keh saNg-o-KhiSht muQQayyad haiN aur sag Aazaad!
vaah!
Some journalists exhibiting their yellow journalism have been advising chief Justice to bow down for the good of the country. I wonder why couldn’t they advice Mush for doing the same. If he leaves a lot of good would happen.
@kafka8
very refreshing. thanks for sharing these lines.
I particularly enjoyed:
bane hai.n ahl-e-hawas muddaii bhii, mu.nsif bhii
kise wakiil kare.n, kis se mu.nsifii chaahe.n
did you by any chance hint towards the Jamaat Islami’s demand for the restoration of judiciary? I am sorry if I misunderstood. : )
Zardari said that “What he said was not a Hadith and the Murree Declaration was just a political agreement.”
Can anyone please give Zardai this link
http://www.java-man.com/pages/JamiAlUloom/hadith_48.html
“The signs of the hypocrite are three: when he speaks he lies, when he promises he breaks his promise and when he is entrusted he betrays the trust.” (Bukhari and Muslim)
. Betraying of Trusts. When a Muslim is entrusted with something, he must do his best to protect it and to render it back to its owner when the time comes. Allah said: {Verily, Allah orders you to render trusts to their rightful owners…} An-Nisaa: 58 Also: Al-Anfaal: 27.
(who cares if he said was not hadith but since he promised it, he should follow to it and that is a hadith)
i remembere once the columnist HAROON RASHEED siad in a public debats while mushraff banned the media,,,,, AWAM MUKHLIS HEN LAKIN LEADER, SIASATDAN BEHOODA HEN,, i agreed that and still i agree them, but why educated awam voted those who were already cheked well, who had been scrutinized well during thier tow times government,,,,,,,,, is their any body who can make me understand to vote ppp and pmln in a such situation,,,,,,,,,, we are muslim and islam sayas, that. MOMAN TEESRY BAR AIK BIL SE NAHI DASA JA SAKTA, so the people who voted ppp and plmn, are not they moman or mislimmmmmmm???????””’ i am confused . who can examplify to, who can simplify to me,,,,,, is there any ???????? i hate QATEL LEEAGE, mushraff but i hate these ppp and pmln because, they do politics with thier own peoples who support them to come in the government to enjoy,,,,,,,,,,,, they people vote them to do politics with the other world in order to save thier country, to strengthen our country and people, but they do politice with thier awam as they are doning right now,, it is cruelty and unjustice. so such a polititions , how can be trusted ? or such a people how can be given another chance to cheet the people or eat the money of awam,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,? and who are the people those have given these thieves another chance once again,,,,,,,,,,,, how can u belive on a tiger that he will never touch a deer while is hungry since 8 or 6 years.??????????’usman khan spain
Mush is still in Power and Gillani is becoming the next Shaukat Aziz.
He didnt even have the guts to sign the gas pipeline deal with the Iranian president. Mush signed the deal.
People voted for their PM to assume power but looks like PPP has become the B-team of the ex-dictator.
Ineterior Foreign Defence Information and Broadcasting may be Local Bodies have been kept by ZZZ league.
Whereas PMl(N) has finance as the major minisitry but that would be countered by trade privatisation held by ZZZ league.
No army can stop the march of an idea the time for which has come - Muneer Malik.
PPP and AZ will be history soon like the Q-leaguers. The future belongs to the leading lawyers, PTI and those politicians who respect and honor the mandate given by the public (like NS is doing).
All eyes are now on the the May 3rd lawyers convention in ISB.
To all PPP supporters:
As party supporters you are supposed to criticize your leadership when they make a wrong decision, instead of inventing excuses for them. I support AA and IMC. But when AA took IMC to meet AZ I blasted both of them, I though it was a bad move. As a supporter it is your job to criticize wrong moves by your party.
If jailed and near to death(might be hanged by Mushi) NS goes to KSA (by deal or by understanding….by pressure or by request whatsoever)
then it is a Doghlapan
And If Zardari publicly announces and signs the Murree accord and at the last moment backs out of it (with happy face and sitting in Dubai -without being exiled)
it is a good political decision by PPP.
WHAT A JOKE.
BB was dead or not earlier on, now she is really dead , and her murderer is her own husband ASIF ZARDARI.
where is Mr. Ihtzaz Ihsan ? is he passed away ? He has been very VOCAL to criticised the others on each and every occasion within no time . But what happened with him this time why he does not find any courge to speak against his own party FRADULATION ? This not fair from him he must take a clear stand either on lawyer´s side or he must backup his Cheating patry completely . He must come forward and join PML(N) in this struggle.
And Mr. Zardi is a ” hidden Wolf in the skin of a Lamb ” nothing is left to bleave and depend on him any more , his wrong and ego-centric thinking will surly demage PPP & this country very severely.
Guga,
There is a lawyers convention in ISB on May 3rd. Consider May 1- 3 as bonus for PPP.
@calyps
Remember in general we accept only that religion which doesn’t hinder our success or which doesn’t effect our impression to the outside world.
so whatever he does will be called ‘Politics’ for the good of the country.
It is a real pity on the PPP supporters. after BB they found a leader like Zardari to lead their party. I wonder how could they speak out now.
Geo only (90%) asking /discussing with those ,who are somehow pro Musharraf.
A controversial stance by Geo???
@Tanweer Amjad
Shahid Khaqan Abbasi Minister for Commerce, Trade and Industry
Tehmina Daultana Minister for Science and Technology
Ahsan Iqbal Minister for Eduction, additional charge Minorities
Khawaja Muhammad Asif Minister for Petroleum and Natural Resources, additional charge Sports
Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan Minister for Communications with additional charge of Food, Agriculture and Livestock
Muhammad Ishaq Dar Minister for Finance, Revenue, Economic Affairs and Statistics
and several others.
By the way, Local Bodies is with the ANP.
Now, could you please define ‘administrative ministries”
http://www.infopak.gov.pk/ministers.aspx
Sad to see all of this…. I think NS should keep his stand and we’ll keep supporting him…
O Janaab … !
the foundation of solving this issue was set incorrectly when awam gave mandate to AZ (also known as PPP) …
AZ himself was an Iftikhar victim (in first half of 2000s) …
AZ got NRO from the PCO judiciary Mush …
AZ (and PMLN) fought elections under Mush …
AZ would be having plans for this term in which “rule of law” might be a problem
why on earth would he be interested in restoration of judges…?
PK awam has serious issues with emotions … BB murder was a dark event but making a conclusion from the murder that “PPP is sincere with awam” is a pointless and foolish conclusion
all I can say about the plight of the awam is … “hor chupo …. !!!”
@all
faqeerana aye sada kar chalay
mian khush raho hum dua kar chalay
GEELANI is not going to be SHORT KATT AZIZ, he was brought when he was prepared preeely to act just like shokat azia…….. people should know that, why, MQM and QATIL LEAGUE, voted the prime minister .., ? this is politics, bcz ppp is a duplicat (JURWAN ) brother of Q league,now they are the same, they are same and eat us together, no opposition is there and no body will rise a noice upon doing anything . functions and thinkings are the same, as q league,,,,,,,,,, so where is the educated nation or awam who voted ppp and pmln to vote and change ???????? same protocoles , same road blockings on the roads for ministers,,,,,,,, can zardari and geelani or nawaz shareef wait in the line to get the AATTA ? i donot know anything ,,cannot understand ? i only know that we have to live on this poverty, unjustice and luxuriousness of ppp and pmln for the next 5 years……….
@paindoo
i meant them all
maybe you too…?? : )
@ thedude
I agree with you on the following lines:
“PK awam has serious issues with emotions … BB murder was a dark event but making a conclusion from the murder that “PPP is sincere with awam” is a pointless and foolish conclusion”
Let’s see who’s the villain of tomorrow, Time is playing strange tricks here in Pakistan….
@all
Please note that Paindoo has to be called pain-in-dhoo
Mayri naqis rayey mein PPP mukamal torr par iss baat par aamada nahii hay kay mulk estab. kay chungal say aazad hogaya hay. Unkay lashaoor mein yeah baat hay kay unn ka quaid phansi chaRh gaya orr yeah qaum sotti rahee..wohh thak chukay hein inqilaab kay naroon say..
once bitten twice shy wali baat hay..or ab to baycharay twice bitten hein..anyway it doesnt make there stand moral or right but zardari is a smart cat..maybe a lil over smart…but a revolutionary or a hero he is not. I am sure he has reason to believe that if he doesnt play by the rules than he can be hanged as well and all the stalwarts of democracy will whine n moan for 2 weeks n than all will be back to normal. Change thru democarcy will be slow and painful if you want to break status quo any other way than it would have to be thru a bloody revolution which this nation isnt ready for.
zardari ko ppp mili thi jahaiz men or wo us jahaiz ke sath wohi kam ker raha he jo aik nalaiq shohar jahaiz ke sath kerta he,,,,,,,,, ppp or pmln ka awam ke sath rawaya hamesha se wohi raha tha or rahe go jo aik shayer ne kaha he,
umer bhar ka he sath aab-o-mahi ka,
jo aye waqat to na paani jaal me aye,,
usman khan
i repeat;
if ….if zardari sticks with the establishment and the empire…i hope all serious ppp leaders, form a PPP forward bloc…led by aitezaz or amin faheem and join PML-N….this forward PPP bloc would include ..could include the old PPP stalwarts….save PPP from going ZZzzzzz
a heart broken PPPist
@Usman Khan
are you a supporter of mush ????
and if i am not wrong u supported the martial law of Nov 3 ???
i am just asking becos it then makes it easier to understand wat u r saying and why.
i can bet that even if zardari wants he can’t restore judges on the 2nd nov position.
i can go a step further and say that even if Musharraf has a change of heart over night ,he cannt restore it on 2nd nov position.
the decision to sack CJ was unanimous of FOJ….and they wouldnt allow him to come back with same force and same tenure
Judges will be restored no matter what.
And those will delay this process will be thrown in the dustbin of History.
brother gm,
i hate musharraf more then KAAFIROON, i hate q league , those policies and even the name of musharraf and q league,,,,,,,, but i hate also these ppp and pmln, who are doing, AYEN BAIYEN SHAYEN,, why the do politics with us instead of musharraf,? bhutto sab and benazir sahiba, did much to name ppp and even they lost thier lives and our nation gave the ppp in the hand of curropt zardari in a plate well arranged with thier votes,,,,,,,,,,, if our nation is educated then they should have given zardari time to prove his sincerity and loyalty with the ppp and peoples. he became from america, he was hungry and people of pakistan presented him thier votes in a plate and now looing at him as if he is going to give them relief. noway, he can not do anythig, even he will take 20 % this time,,,,,,,,,,, usman khan
@usman khan
hate kafiroon…?? hope you dont use their inventions either… i think i understand why GM asks what he does…
kafir-e-ishqum musalmani mara darkaar neest.
amir khusro
(at the risk of being over repetitive)
Anybody has any idea what could be in the constitutional package. I am not interested in knowing whether it defines the tenure of CJ or not , but want to know if someone has information about what else is there apart from judiciary issue.
BTW: Lion of Pakistan Kurd very subdued in “Capital talk” today.
PK Politics Friends,
A must read perspective, i mean it ITS A MUST MUST MUST READ!!!!! on the PPP’s great game of deceit regarding the judges restoration which offers a new perspective is available below:
http://www.otherpakistan.org/the-judiciary.html
Please pass news of the deceit on so the nation resists such evil.
Feimanallah
Wasim
http://www.otherpakistan.org
Usman bhai aap MQM ko support kartey ho na? nai please batado na please. Aap bhi humarey bhai ho yaar. Batado yaar. Abhi samajh nahi araha aap ko kia kahen.
i am disappinoted ….
i can’t comprehend the fact that our forum members and our junta can’t see the realities which are transparent.
no body talks about that we are colony of FOJ and FOJ is agency of US.
IF YOU WANT TO BLAME ANY ONE …PLZ BLAME NADEEM TAJ (retd),pervez kyani,general shafaat,general ahsan malik,geneal asif,etc
forget zardari even if musharraf wants to restore judges he can’t since US and FOJ wouldnt allow it
alas we will remain naive.
i even hate the mother of mushraff who can not commond her as a mother to stop these stupidness .i am a common man, if nobody likes me in any house of my family,i will never enter of go to this house, but i donot understand that 18 kror nation has spited on the dirty face of mushraff and rejected him. why is he so stupid and doesnto go to hell. but i think he doesnot have any respect, but he has self respect, now let me explain the meaning of self respect of musharraf,,
for musharaf,, self respect is called a respect which he respecte for himself,, as nobody respects of musharraf so he has to respct for himsself, this is the real meaning of SELF RESPECT for the musharraf,,,,,,,,,,,,,, i requet u mushrafff to please get lost or go to the hell even, but not be in holy earth of pak……….please but i know , LATON KE BHOOT BATON SE NAHI MANTE,,,,,,,,,,,
@Usman Khan
But my Question remains there…DID YOU SUPPORT MARTIAL LAW OF NOV 3???
i think its very simple question.
I will reiterate the point that I have been making for weeks.
Judges will be restored not for any movement or pressure but to establish the principle that army chief can not dismiss judges. Now the people do not want to read every word ” to establish the principle that army chief can not dismiss judges.” Emotions aside, if that rule has not been established by the consensus and accepted by the military leadership then our vicious circle of hyper-emotional cycle will continue. This has plagued the country for 60 years and will continue to do so. Our heroes and zeros are based upon our emotional attachment to issues and not commitment to the issues or objectives. Again read the words “attachment” versus “commitment”. PPP has learned this by the struggle of 30 years and sacrifice of many lives that attachment does not produce results but hurts the core issue. In my view, Sharif Bros. agree that restoration and constitutional package to remove the hurdles for ensuring independence of judiciary is critical. The way Zardari is having difficulty to articulate the point to his opponents, Sharif Bros. are having difficulty to articulate the same point to their core supporters.
To those who are encouraging PMLN to resign are either politically blind or ignorant. Through your attachment, you are purposing another 5 years to Musharraf as oppose to strategically remove him from the political scene. Those who lack any political understanding and resort to newspaper headlines for their argument hurt more to their cause than their opponents. To win against a superior ( resources and force wise), you need to remove his power bases first. Then once the opponent is weak and lacks the base then you attack in a graceful manner. You can either get it or not. Without even using the brain for a second if you want to take cheap shots at coalition then you are politically stupid and absolutists not democrats in pluralistic society.
@imalik5525
Yaar ye to aap bilkul nayee baat laaye ho,, We’ve been thinking that Mush is dictating …. ye to aap ney naya scene create kardia… FOJ Mush ko dictate kar rahi hai?
Foj ko kia mileyga CJ ko bahar rakh k ?
@gm
no body support martial law …but it was not on nov 3………
the martial law has been in our country for last 50 years ever since sikander mirza and ayub khan…
junejo,NS,BHUTTO,BB took panga with army and were sidelined .
CJ took panga and was sidelined…wouldnt be back with powers.
musharraf cannot restore judges even if he has change of hearts.
what you guies are talking about zardari,ns etc..
our politicians dont have authority…they are just for the cover up of FOJ..
whoever takes panga wit foj will be sidelined.
all crucial decisions are made by FOJ FOJ FOJ FOJ ..with consent of US.
Stop this hue and cry about politicians plz..
@jawed raja
you sound so erudite….i am almost willing to buy your argument. almost.
a heart broken PPPist.
@ Usman Khan,
I will call you Mr. Ethically Corrupt as you have such a weak integrity that based on newspaper clipping and hatred of PPP (as part of your EMMAN) you have made an opinion for a person. You hate PPP & its leadership from core of your heart and do so by maligning without identifying “your dog in fight.” The confused people like you who deserve the administration of Talban not a democratic society. Democratic society with diverse opinions is not subject to Farman of a ruler but consensus of various opinions. And for Absolutist people like you consensus does not mean 100% agreement by all but deliberations, discussions, and agreeing to minimum reconciliatory points.
If your definition of educated is people like you then I will opt for ignorant society.
MY GM SAB,, mqm to wo muwaliyon ki jamat he jis ki misal he k, jesse wo tv ad he na , CHALO YAR KHOON CHOOSNE CHALTE HEN, mqm ke bare me mera khiyal ye he ke in ki aane wali naslon ko bi chok men khara ker ke goli mar deni chahye, kiyun ke wo aanw wale qatil, chor , uchakke, zalim, logon ka khoon chusne wale hon ge ya logon ko zinda jalane wale ya phir kisi na kisi ka suhag ujarne wale hon ge.. to jis tara KHIZAR alehissalm ne aik bacha bachpan me mar dia tha , mqm ke bacho tak ka bi nam-o-nisham mita dena chahye ta ke kal koi or neya mqm ka katil is zameen pe aman ko tabah na ker sake,,,,,,,,,,, so how can i even like to say ASSALM O ALLAIKOM to this stupid mqm of musharraf,, let them go hell even worst than hell , isha Allah
@ imalik5525
The FOJ and their Godfather is being humiliated by a bunch or ragtag militants in FATA, Afghanistan and IRAQ.
The people of Pakistan will ultimately take the power away from FOJ.
If the current breed of Politicians are not upto the task then new politicians will come.
FOJ exists because of country. If there is no country then there will be no FOJ.
Asfandyar Wali Khan once said:
“MauQa’a parasti aur be-Ghairati maeN farQ hotaa hai”..
I’m sorry to say.. our “democratic leadership” not only blinked but they also crossed that line (to the Bay Hayai side — and they’re telling us “It’s a goodthing” … “you’ll like it”… how very reminiscent of Q league)
At least mushahid hussain licked moshe’s nutsack with GUSTO, and we loved to hate those losers so… now we’ll have to get over our betrayal and learn to re-organize certain parties out of the “democratic forces” khaana and into the “dark side” khaanaa..
oh well…
@ imalik5525
FOJ cannot survive without the support of People.
And people want insaaf which only an independent Judiciary can deliver.
@MEDIA MAVEN
oh man dont you know that FOJ unanimously sacked CJ…mush is on the decline…his presidency was not an issue….FOJ wants to implement US policies so that they keep on getting the trillions of dollars of aid every year….CJ was becoming pain in the neck..
our country is ruled by FOJ for 50 years ….bhutto became pain in the neck…bb came in bw FOJ AND US …NS took panga with FOJ and so did junejo .;they were all sidelined..
now FOJ wouldnt allow CJ to be back with full powers…lawyers movement has shaken FOJ a lot ..but they wouldnt budge…like they didnt compromise with bengalis and killed thousands of them
@usman khan
i hate mqm too…..but please…there is a limit. CHILDREN are children…!!! stop talking crap!!
@ninetykman
did awam came out on streets after nov 3….or did they came out after bhutto was hanged.
yes i agree the only soln to reduce FOJ’s menoply is through common man’s power…..the intellectuals and lawyers alone can’t make it happen.
and forget politicians they r just characters used for cover up by FOJ
@Usman Khan
I did not ask about MQM etc.
My Question remains there…DID YOU SUPPORT MARTIAL LAW OF NOV 3???
@tk
well put mate
@ninetykman: “FOJ cannot survive without the support of People”
not necessarily. Myanmaar is just one example. Did I mention Chevron (yes the American Multinational) and the Burmese Jurnails have an ideal relationship..
Burma stays a ghetto of peasants barely able to feed itself, Jurnails get to rule it, Chevron (unky Sam) get to extract resources for free,
People hate them, state department gurgles something or other about “democracy” every time the jurnails kill more than a couple hundred people, the People HATE the military and the oppressive regime, but they can’t do anything…
I think _that_ is the model uncle sam wants to bring in Pakistan to literally LEASH Pakistan like a dog on a leash. They have already leashed KHI … the second step will be taken when the new fortress of a GHQ with it’s internal palaces is completed in Islamabad.
Then the mandarins in Islamabad could live peacefully even if they were literally beseiged by an army (did you notice Islamabad has its own dam, airport, and enough land to support the city through a seige by an army… after you drop a few key bridges)
This won’t stand against air attackss.. but land attacks.. should give some idea what kind of enemies our GHQ is building against.
It is us.
@GM
there was no martial law imposed on nov3.
martial law was imposed the day sikander mirza conspired with ayub.
after that politicians are used for the covering up purpose…FOJ has been the ruler.
whoever (bhutto,bb,ns.junejo,CJ) took panga was sidelined
i am seeing that this stupid musharaf will impose marshal law again, or emegency in the form of 58 b– and zardari who has become now mr, 20% now, with nawaz shareef will be sent agian either to jail or abroad. and i think the person who decieves the nation, president also will decieve him al usual…. musharrf can impose 58 b,, our cheeter polititions say in thier debates that president can not do this, he is not in this position, FOJ is not with him ect,,i say, he always never thought of the conditions or HALAAT. he has been doing and noone could even ask him, why ? or how ? so similarly he will imposed again and these polititions will remain in COMMA, and will not help saying OHO, YE KIA HO GIA, and even this thing happens again so it will be the becuase of the ppp and pmln,s leadre,s fault .. because as musharrf used his power, geelani sab should have done the same, should have issued executive order so far , using his power, bcz nation is with him but problem is that ppp doesnot want,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
@tk
thanks God atleast some body is talking about the real culprit ..uncle sam and foj..
politicians are just a cover up…agents…employees and fight with each other for the little JHUNJHUNAAAS of ministries etc..
Not sure, how much effective these all comments will be !!
But this is clear that PPP is always greedy for power and they never do anything good for the countary, They always try to remain in power. The only one person Musharaf(son of….) needs to be thrown out and all will be fine.
Zardari is scared that his corrouption cases might not re-open if the judiciary came back. Also the Jusges has to find out sensible ways to take somoto’s. Musharaf wants to remain in power by selling his own people and PPP also wants to remain in power no matter what ever they have to pay.
If they think that restoration of jusges is not of so important then why do not they say clearly and move next, but I am sure they will try to prolong as much as they can and people will see that PPP will collapse at some point.
did any body noticed the look of a slave when gailani was sitting with mush..
US owns FOJ and FOJ owns the feudal/industrialists politicians.
two places where are affairs are decided
white house and GHQ.
@Peja
In Express news programme, Mehtab Abbasi of PMLN was saying that one of the main bone of contention is that some people are trying to give protection to all illegal actions of Nov 3 and this will be part of the constitutional package.
@tk
true…faujistan is a client of the empire.
pejamistri…yes…kurd was kinda low key. …so was AA with kashif abassi…i think something is brewing
or atleast i hope it is…
dum dum a dum…in the works??
@Jawad Raja: Well argued! I also am of the opinion (FWIW) that the principle needs to established and then we go from there. But what does establishing a principle entail?
Because if we restore the judges in nov2 configuration, and leave the Dogar court intact, IMO it violently violates the issue. Specifically the 7 bench decision against any PCO specifically forbidding any GOVT official from giving it legitimacy by accepting it.
So, Dogar court was actually an accomplice in the “abrogation of constitution”. And if this “transaction log” is not rolled back to pre NOV (nothing remains of the actions post nov 3) .. the principle is already violated. Then we’re just talking about _degrees_ of violation and therefore getting involved in being “attached” to the principle as opposed to being “committed” to the principle (of invalidity of Usurpation and actions stemming thereof).
I don’t really care about CJ Iftikhar if the system is actually overhauled and “fixed” but all indications are that Mr. Zardari is only playing word games, and using delaying tactics (to perhaps wait for some event that _HE_ knows and we don’t.. but which will become evident in 2 weeks as this is the timeframe he’s given).
A willingness to follow “NRO” deal almost to the word, and acceptance of the decisions of the “packed” judiciary (which should technically be illegal in his view, if he were “committed” to the principle of invalidity of usurpation and acts stemming therefrom) indicates to me that Mr. Zardari and the undemocratic poodle/lapdog CEC of PPP is not interested in being committed to the principle even at face value (which at least NS & company are for now - I’m not saying they’re angels..).
The mandate given on feb 18th was a “mandate for change”. And the change doesn’t mean Q-league with a new oil-filter and a snazzy paint-job .. the RKM thing is a sloppy attempt at deflection of people’s criticisms and Mr. Zardari will soon find out that Pakistanis may have grown smarter then he probably has the stomach for.
cheers.
as AZ stance on Judiciary and dead lock in muzakraat and todays statement of sherry.R that judges will not be restored through resolution and Gilani meets with mush and says there will not be any clash bw institutions…… it can be clearly said Judges will not be restored as Lawyers and PMLN wants!
PMLN would wait for another 15 days, but they will quit ministries soon! I see relections in 2009 when PMLN ANP JI PTI would make goverment.
I believe! Judges will be restored before 2013
@paindoo
I thought you understood my point. But it is really difficult. You have to understand that Interior ministry and the Information ministry are the most important ministries. through interior ministry you have the all the a-d-m-i-n-istrative control of the country. through the information ministry, you have the total control whatever you want to propagate in the country. I bet you, you would find no government which would ever give these two ministries to any coalition partner. You have found sufficient time to find out the true ministries, it would be even better to find the statement of Zardari regarding the ministries issues when he said, I want to keep these five ministries, rest PML(N) could take any eight they want.
But this all requires that one should leave the blind illegitimate support to PPP cum Zardari League and should be able to question what one’s leaders are doing in the daylight.
i think the article ‘A Very Sceptical View’ which featured here several weeks ago on this website, deserves to be put on again…
http://pkpolitics.com/2008/02/25/a-very-skeptical-view/
Ibn Razi
Bravo zardari..u have finally shown to the ppl that “once a 10% always a 10%” maybe u want to be a 90% this time.
Anyways PPP will be get their share of public bashing soon.
@Paindoo and @Usman Khan , both of u are most welcome to take ur enlightenedly moderated leaders like Mushi , Kala bandar chooran wala and 10% , and all the slutty Miss Pakistans who find Mush sexy….in return just leave us alone. Also take PMLQ with u as well since u will need servants in spain. While u r at it , take sherry rehman , babar awan , rehman malik as well…so u will have a backup of comedians and mujra performers.
how can i belive or support this stupid marsha law made by the stupid generals.i hate marshal laws, i hate the people who support them and i hate all who take owth under under pco and sit in the CANGROO COURTS of DOGAR .
secondly,, if mqm can kill the children of our innocent people and childre,, so why we should not take revenge,, LATON KE BHOOT BATON SE NAHI MANTE, aik ane wali burai ko khtam kerne ke lie koi bura kam bi krena pre to koi bat nahi he,
thirdly,, i believe on democracy but not the democray that ppp is doing. one should talk about RECONCILIATIONS whose own conscious is PAK, HOLY, CLEAN, SATISFIED, a perons like zardari or nawaz shareef, can not impliment this . if somebody says something to the nation, he should be firm and steady on it, not so straggled like zardari,,,,,,,,,,,,, i oppose the people of pakistan who presented ppp to zardari,, why,, bhutto and benazir bhutoo lost thier lives to democray or for the bettement of people, and people of pakistan lost all thier struggles giving ppp to zardari in the form of thier costly vots. they should have thought some time and let zardari proof his loyalty to peoples and ppp . but i think the supporters of ppp are poor people sin education and wisdome, LAKEER KE FAQEER who just voted ppp withou knowing and realizing that without benazir bhutto their is no point to vote ppp, bcz nobody will listen the poors , nobody wil try to do something for poverty. now zardari will take 20 % instead of 10,,,,,,,,,,,,
it would be naive to think politiicians can restore judiciary.
there is no constitutional power in front of GHQ and white house power.
only masses can change this set up ….and if powerty keep on increasing at this ratio then it might happen one day
this sherry rehman is a LOOMRY, you can judge her wickedness in her words,,,,,,,, rehma malik is a jjoker by face and chacector,, i heard about the humbleness and patiance of GEELANI SAB when he was in jailbut he as showd his real basterd face.he is more KATHPUTLY prime minister than SHORKAT AZIZ,, all cabinet of ppp and plmn are beasts,, i curse upon them,, i also curse upon them who voted them especially ppp ,wherease benazir bhutto was not in this world,, and people voted ppp, ?????’ i am astonished and shocked,,,,,,,,,,hun lowo maze ppp ko vote dene walo jahilo,,,,, tumhara yahi ilaj he, tum isi jooton ke laiq ho
@ TK,
Frist of all, let’s be very clear at stake:
1- Army chief can not dismiss judges (Restoration of dismissed judges through this action)
2- Independence of judiciary ( by allowing judges protection to exercise their independence and then hold them accountable to people)
I will argue that PPP, PMLN, and ANP have agreed on these principles. There are other forces that have to agree to these in order to ensure that will of people is carried out in letter and spirit expressed by the parliament. For scoring cheap shots one can try to expose the forces that are not on board yet but if you do so they will retaliate with full force. You can either work to become hero by appealing to emotions or leave a legacy by initiating the transformation of the system. My critical analysis of the situation indicates that approach by Zardari is the most viable option to increase the odds of success in transforming the system in current context. Again I will caution that he is not infallible like all other fellow human beings. Try to absorb the message to analyze critically and skeptically but not the individual.
I think it is time that we start saying that openly which many of us have been thinking secretly….the BB’s death was with the consensus of Zardari and some other key PPP people…
It is time that we let PPP know that in today’s world they cannot fool the people of Pakistan…thay can be forced but not fooled…
It is time that we realise that this PPP is not the PPP of Bhutto or of Benazir…
It is time we realise that the establsihment through Zardari has managed to do what it had been trying to do for the last 40 years…destruction of PPP
Ibn Razi
@Jawad Raja
lets be rational…
there are clearly two ways to interpret Zaradri’s actions..
one is what you are suggesting, other what many of us are saying…
we have many evidences on believing our interpretations, may i request you to give some evidence to back up your version…?
give me some evidence that since coming to power PPP has done something - one thing - that shows that it is actually trying to change the system.
Suppose we accept your hypothesis…now, clearly, the establishment also knows that Zardari is ultimately seeking to turn the tables on them…why would they allow Zardari to do so? This slow approach to change - which you take it to be the case, is it simply not giving the establishment time to strike and craft its own response?
No, 60 years we have suffered, if anything, this was the time to face the establishment…
lawyers - with no mass support, no political tarining, no big resources - were abl eto shake the establisment….this is a clear indication that if there is will, this can be done…
PPP has simply given life support to Musharraf and is continuing to do so…
I simply ask for some evidence for your evidence…
nothing would happen unless FOJ is weakened by a popular mass movement which is not likely at this piont
politicians are agents of FOJ same way FOJ is agent of US .
@ Ibn Razi,
I would like to see the list of your services to PPP and proof of your association with PPP prior to assessing your hateful assertions. Also logically describe me your definition of party of Bhutto Shaheed and Benazir Shaheed.
And if your comments are just ventilating your life-long hatred for the party at your convenience then I will salute your moral and ethical standards.
@Ibn Razi: Hey.. that was an interesting piece and for once I hedged and .. umm..
Now I can gloat and claim I told you so… woo hoo! suckaz!!
@imalik
I agree…nothing will change unless once people show their strength…
it took French Revolution to jostle monarchies of Europe…
if democracy is the power of people, at-least once the people will have to show taht they indeed have this power…
in venezuela, after Chavez was removed by the US backed military, it was public power that brought him back…in Iran the pro-US shah was removed by the public…
people - taht is the only force that can challenge the US…
but US and its allies will do their utmost taht people do not strike…because if they strike in Pakistan, soon it will lead to similar strikes in other countries…as we can see in Latin America, one after the another, anti-American governments have come to power…
no nothing will change until people realise and take their destiny in their hands…yes, for once, they will have to stop thinking that their destinies are in God’s hands…
@jawad Raja..
you ducked the simple question I asked…and instead went into your polemics..
I am simply asking, what should the basis for accepting your interpretation of Zardari’s position…
you claim that ‘by Zardari is the most viable option to increase the odds of success in transforming the system in current context’…
all I am asking for is some arguement, some evidence, some logic to accept your claim…
just a blind following of PPP is not sufficient…
few months left for suddle to retire and guess what is he looking at?
50 billion Rs
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008429story_29-4-2008_pg12_9
@ ibnrazi,
Just to be clear. Do you consider Chavez as a democratic role model ?
@ TK
I do not get your point…perhaps my English is not as good as yours…
its not about ‘I told you so’…its about understanding the larger political scenario and the brutality of international politics…remember what Albright said about Iraqi children…
I think that article was saying that it is important to understand the enemy fully before starting to celeberate a small victory…
I think, this warning is still valid…we must understand our situation as part of a great game and then act accordingly…
@Jawad Raja:
Totally agree that 1 & 2 are at stake. And I will also give you that, “PPP, PMLN, and ANP have agreed on these principles”
But I have tried to argue that Zardari’s actions, then, should not follow!
Acceptance, nay insistence on the Dogar court is a nullification of both principles and therefore nullifies any claims made by PPP or Zardari as to their fidelity to these principles.
That is my limited understanding of AZ/PPP actions as of late.
Now, I admit that we all are discussing this issue here having not been privy to any of the proceedings of these talks (or any documents floating around). So, at least I am interested in the critical analysis of the recent actions of PPP & AZ that you have performed. Please do share.
@Jawad…
it is a moot point and opinions are divided…
but taht is not the real issue…my reference to Chavez was regarding the power of people in frustrating US policies…my point was that in recent history, its only poeple’s power that has frustrated US policies and authority over a country…
btw, you again ducked my question…:)
@ibn Razi: I quoted my own comment in that thread.. I was talking about myself (tongue in cheek )
It has been 150 comments and no-one has mentioned the “FAILURE OF DEMON-CRAZY” yet..
Bro/Sis.. allow me to mention the divine alternative to this SATANIC option of demon-crazy. The Khilaafah!
Just a brotherly reminder….
peace bro’s (and sissies)
@TK…
and where will you find this Khalifah?
Will still have to be a Qureshite Arab or other races will do?
Will the system work heredetry or some majlis-e-shura will appoint?
Ibn Razi
Mr.Asif Ali Zardari having final talks with PML(N) regarding judges restoration in Dubai and it seems clear that this issue is not going to be solved after Mr.Zardari’s Interview on private Tv Channel lastnite. Now what PML (N) is going to do is a question will they going to join the lawyers movement or will conitinue staying in goverment.Mr.Nawaz Sharief today had also given a statement that “The dead line can be extended” this is the first time he gave this kind of a statement so the situation is not getting clear because if PML(N) stays in goverment by saying that the date of restoring judges is extended will people and lawyers are going to accept this or will they react in a negative way? Through the statements given by some lawyers it seems that they will going to start a movement against goverment and if this happens then how goverment is going to handle this issue? Or is there any other option left conisdering the facts that judges are not restored,lawyers are on there move,PML(N) is not a part of goverment.If yes then what it will be?
@ibnrazi: “my point was that in recent history, its only poeple’s power that has frustrated US policies and authority over a country…”
this is how I understood it as well..
And btw, @ibnrazi I agree with your point. It is the people’s power that can keep “the beast” at bay… and my thinking is that one of the main reasons they DO NOT want CJ is because this will do more to demoralize the awakened society than any massacres they could dream up.
I think it was a Roman Emperor who once told his general that the reason he wanted to conquer the barbarians in the north of England was not that they had anything valuable but that them remaining free would give the subjugated peoples of lower england give ideas. That was the most dangerous thing for an empire then and still is to this day.
I think it was Hadrian?.. but I’m not sure.
@ibn Razi:
Did you wrote that article? Are you jahez bakheil? If so, then hats of to you.
It is no secret who killed BB and for what purpose. But the problem is, who would believe us. Sinister people. Bad bad people. At the most important juncture of our history, we are getting betrayed by the serpents of the worst kind.
I hope our nation wakes up soon, because, you know what the next plan in line is?
Death of the federation.
@ibnrazi: any “Pure” Qureshite, fertile male will do, as long as he has achieved balooGhat and has fully grown 2 front teeth (dundaa) .. A “chauGa” is also acceptable.
peaches bro!
@TK…
yes…it may have been Hadrian…he also made the Hadrian Wall….
in a way Marx’s call to workers is still valid…only now we have to change it..
masses of the third world unite…
@TK
i totally agree with you that only solution is Khilafah!!!!
meray dil ki baat ki hay….
@TK…
ah, that disqualifies me…:)
I was so looking forward to enjoying the priviliges of Kahlifah…a darbar, a harem, slaves, ability to take life and show mercy, keeping power in my family, and above all being a guardian of Shariah with many Ulema preaching poeple to accept me even if I was the most corrupt person than rising against me…
damn, you spoil so much…:)
@fas: I think the death of the federation is a slow one.. and it is happening anyways.. and our “
establishmentproxy kleptocracy” will not allow the federation to work anyways (witness the dramay bazi already starting in Balochistan so then can impose gov rule again).sometimes I quote Iqbal:
tu na miT jaa’e gaa Iraan kay miT jaanay say
nasha-e mai ko talluQ nahiN paimanay say..
The “federation” is a makebelieve entity. and it is not really working for anyone except for a very small elite (who are .. you guessed it.. the “foreign proxies”, the Kleptocracy, The pimps, The vultures)
The visceral reaction of Pakistani’s at the thought of the breakup is really interesting to watch. Smaller states will essentially accomplish what a fake state and a broken federal system never could.. independent units with natural affinities which are stronger than the fake affinities that have been created for us in the last few decades (6 to be exact).
If we do it properly, it won’t be as painful as Yugoslavia, but if we fight it.. as they want us to.. it _will_ be like Yugoslavia… but in the end we are going to achieve only the same thing we can achieve without the bloodshed.
Bloodshed is always a part of the british plans.. Bloodshed creates generational hatreds amongst neighbours.. and hatreds can always be exploited by foreigners. (a distant example is haiti and the massacre of 40,000 whites that the Brits insisted the black republic do.. — according to “The Black Jacobins”)
God bless Nawaz Sharif. He hasnt gone to UK despite his wife’s serious operation. During all this crises, he is the one showing maturity and not coming out in media to avoid any confusion.
On the other hand, Zardari per Allah ki Lanat.
Please Nawaz Sharif, make sure that you leave no excuse for Zardari and then dont even wait for extra minute after 30 days.
My thinking on judges issue is that Judges will not be restored or at least CJ will not be restored
When BB and Mush were doing negotiation back in sept/oct, as it’s result we saw BB return to pakistan, NRO and reasonably fair election. Now that is what PPP got, question is what did PPP give in return.
If I remember correctly BB once made a comment ( i think it is her book) that part of the deal is that defense and foreign ministry will be taken care by mush and the rest of the govt affairs will be handled by PPP and obviously that means that Mush will remain as a civilian president for next president
Now, the current situation is that only man either CJ or mush can hold his office. So obviously PPP can not bring CJ as it will be deviation from the deal
And Just to remind one important thing that Gen Kiyani was also part of negotiation. That time he was heading ISI and I think by then Mush had made his mind that he would be next Army Chief, thats why he was there in negotiations and there were other foreign guarantors too.
Gen Kiyani had not let army or ISI interfere in election it is not because Army was or wanted to be out from politics , it is only because it is part of barter.
and I don’t think Army will let PPP back off from the deal. and If PPP had to bow because of public pressure then I guess we will see another martial law.
Zardari has now link the restoration with constitutional package and we all know that they don’t have enough numbers in senate so they need MQM and PMLQ votes for that which is just a strategy to postponed and eventually cancel the judges restoration.
Reinstatement of judges seems a distant dream, I think Zardari is taking time to let all his cases dropped and then he will part ways with NS cos there will be no need to put further put pressure on mush and they can join hands to forward american agenda.
The big meeting coming up tomorrow…. NS and AZ are going to make another history…. Good thing about this meeting is that it is not on the soil of Pakistan , just like BB and NS meeting in London.
@TK
Ahh..the vagaries of life…I remember in my younger days, just a week ago, I was proclaimed (by myself) as the rightful inheritor to the noble seat of Khilafah…. I am a fertile male, asli nasli Syed, federally certified, having reached balooGhat, balaaGhat and janaaBat….I also have a complete wardrobe with a chuGha, sword, Khussa, rumaal, gao Takia, isTanja stones, Miswaak, Huqqa, pack of naswar and a gulabi shalWar…What more do I need?
I was bayated by nota and TK in full view of the pkpolitics Ummah…
And now THIS !!!
TK: How could you??? Et tu TK? Et tu vi vik gaya ee oye???
I must remind you: Do NOT Khal-block me….Like a Nikah, you can’t do bayat on bayat. OK? ….Do not imagine that your multiple bayats cancel each other out!!!
Your bayat holds you loyal to me…Only a Syed can be Khalifah. This is the promise of Allaaaah (You will conquer Andorra, You will take over Maldives!!!)
-=——————–=
The most excellent Khalifah-tul-pkpolitics has deemed it necessary to promulgate this Firman.
Hear Ye ! Hear Ye !
It is incumbent upon all Muslims to support Khilafah. Your one vote will bring the tally of mbokhari to 3. The legal minimum…Support mbokhari. Give your bayat.
Repeat after me:
“I. ______, being of feeble mind and questionable character, without let or hindrance, but with lota and hindlegs, give my bayat to Khalifa-tul-pkpolitics al-Syed M al-bokhari ”
mbokhari has been endorsed by the lights of this age, the Soorajs of benevolence, the aatish Fashaan of intelligence: nota and TK…What are you waiting for? Act now and call 1-900-786-420 to give your bayat. If you act within the next 30 minutes you will get a FREE azarband of a value of 4 cents. Come on, pick up the phone…
Nawaz Shairf talking to Media at Dubai Airport:
http://friendskorner.blip.tv/#871903
I hope you are right peja…
I have high regard for your opinions but on this one I find it hard to accept
I would have understood Zardari’s moves as attempts to ‘deal’ with the establishment if he had not done one thing…malign the CJ…
there is absolutely no reason to do so…
if you can expalin this one thing, i will accept your optimism…
@peja
Don’t you think we have had enough dramay baazi? How much credibility does AZ has left? I would venture to say his credibility is now only 10% (hehe)
Personally, I am sick of this rising crescendo, almost reaching climax and then BOOM!!! anti-climax….disappointment and then the clumsy, comic series of dramatic press conferences…AZ has no more tricks in zanBail….
I want this over with as quickly as possible…
kahoon kiss se main k kia hai, shab-e-ghum bori bala hai
Mujhe kia bura tha marna, gar aik baar hota……
Teri baat pay jiye to ye jaan, jhooT janaa
ke khushi se mar na jatay, gar aitbaar hota
tomorrow will be the end game. NS will came out as being on the right side of the issue and Zardari will just re-affirm what every one really believes about him but was being given a chance at being “pragmatic”. APDM meeting in the next few days is on the cards and Mr. Khosa’s government in Punjab will also be gone in a few weeks but i think that it would be a blesssing in disguise.
So the game is set PPP MQM JUI Q(forward block) vs PML-N (outside parliament) JI PTI PKMAP and the people of Paksitan including the lawyers and the civil society. Media will try to claim at being neutral besides a few prominent anchors but the news coverage would be “as needed” basis