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May 2, 2008
Why do we Need the Restoration of Judiciary?
Author: Jahiz Bakhail
Two days ago was the deadline. It passed. It is said that the compound word ‘dead-line’ emerged in the American Civil War as a term for a line which must not be crossed, over which no man can pass and live. Clearly, no such importance is given to this word in our political discourse.
I am forced to write this article to essentially clarify in my own mind why the judiciary should be restored to the status of November 2, 2007. I was very clear about it but then over time I heard many arguments that either sought to complicate the issue or dilute it. In the end I found myself confused. The result is this attempt to clarify my own thinking. Perhaps in the process some others may also benefit.
Let us forget, for the moment, the story from 9th March to 2nd November. We keep it aside because on 2nd November no one thought that the Supreme Court (SC) was illegitimate. There was a consensus, nationally and internationally, that by and large everything was according to the constitution of that date and that which was doubtful was under judicial review. On 3rd November the then Chief of the Army Staff (COAS) – General Musharraf - proclaimed emergency in Pakistan, suspended the constitution and imposed his PCO. The SC, which was not affected by any of these steps, was functional and its seven member bench immediately declared the COAS’s steps as illegal. In due course the other incarnation of COAS, President (i) Musharraf, also acknowledge that 3rd November action was extra-constitutional. The COAS’s PCO required that the judges take a fresh oath. About sixty judges, including most SC judges, declined. This is the point where the drama began. These judges were removed. A new SC consisting of some sitting judges and several new inducts was established.
Fast forward to 9th March, 2008 when it seemed that all was well. The two biggest parties who had won in 18th February election – along with some other parties – emphatically declared that the forcibly removed judges will be restored within 30 days of the formation of federal government. Soon afterwards though the discourse of the PPP on the restoration of judges began to change. It sometimes became difficult to separate its stance from that of more explicit opponents of the restoration of judges such as the MQM and PML (Q). This shift was also noted in several analysts and anchors. It is their arguments that I would like to tackle here.
There are essentially three ways – with some internal variations - in which people are objecting to the restoration of judges: 1) by saying that it can only be done by constitutional change rather than an executive order; 2) it is really not the issue of the people of Pakistan; 3) it cannot be implemented because of opposing forces. Let us look at each of them.
The first objection says that the acts of 3rd November have constitutional safeguard and hence they can only be overturned by a constitutional change. How does the action of a CAOS taken after suspending the constitution get constitutional safeguard? To my knowledge, there is only one way and that is that it is ratified by the Parliament. That is the reason that all previous Marshall Law Administrators had to go through this process. It may have taken two years before such ratification came, but it could be sidetracked. Those who claim that 3rd November actions are now constitutional say that this is because of the SC’s decision. However, there is no provision in the constitution, as far as I know, that allows SC to make any PCO Constitutional. At most, it can accept is a defacto situation but it only becomes dejury upon Parliament’s ratification. Further, this particular SC was itself the beneficiary of PCO and hence it had no moral right to endorse the PCO and give it constitutional safeguard. Finally, how can an action which is ab intio extra-constitutional get constitutional safeguard by the institutions created by it? Only the logic of force can make it happen.
The second group of arguments is that judiciary is not the concern of Pakistani people. Is this so? It may be true that judiciary was not PPP’s main election agenda, but it surely benefited from it. First, until the election it never said that it will not restore the judiciary. Second, it in fact always claimed that its members were at the forefront of lawyer’s moment. It, therefore, seems reasonable to argue that PPP at-least created the impression that it was pro-restoration and certainly not against it. It can also be argued that the seats PPP actually got are much less than what it should have got after BB’s murder. It is highly probable that the depressed numbers reflect voter’s reaction against its uncategorical stance on judiciary. But forget all this. Is this really true that people’s issue is food prices and not judiciary? It is not surprising that if you go and ask people on the street what is their number one issue, many will say food shortage. Is this surprising? The idea of the judiciary and its restoration is relatively abstract compared to the immediate and concrete need of food. Thus, if asked, it is not a surprise that people are likely to mention food first. But then one must remember that people also do not mention democracy as the top of their agenda of concerns. Should we therefore conclude that it is not important to them? Democracy, like judiciary, is abstract idea and it is again no surprise that it is not going to be the first thing people will say.
However, the deepest of our concerns are often hidden beneath the surface. Many times they are hard to articulate as well. So, go deeper and ask them what they think is the cause of Pakistan’s current situation; why do they not have food? To this deeper question, I believe, each and every person will say that it is because there is no justice: it is because in this land, those who are corrupt do not get punished, those who steal go free, and those who embezzle are beyond the reach of law. With some probing you will see that beneath the need for food people crave for justice. The final argument against the view that judiciary is not people’s concern is the ocean of people that had voluntarily – without the support of establishment or any political party – had come to see the CJ when he traveled by road from Islamabad to Lahore. Who will argue against the claim that it was that fateful day in March 2007 which was the turning point in Pakistan’s recent politics?
The third argument put forward by those against the judiciary is that it will lead to institutional collision. Yes, indeed it may lead to such a consequence. But why and whose fault will it be? Will it be the fault of the Parliament, which following the Will of the People, tries to reinstate the judges or of those undemocratic forces that do not want the Will of the People to be respected? If it is the latter’s fault, is it not in bad faith that attempts are being made to scare the Parliament? Why, instead of scaring those who are on the right path, should we not raise against those who will be on the wrong if institutional collision occurs? Why collectively we not warn the anti-democratic forces against any step that will thwart the Will of the People? Why the analysts who come on TV and say it can get complex because the Presidency will react not say to the Presidency that its action will not tolerated?
Another argument given by the people against the restoration of judiciary is why should these judges be restored when they too had taken the oath on PCO in the past? This is true. All these judges had taken oath under previous PCOs. There are, however, two arguments that make this objection invalid: one legal and one moral. The legal argument is this. All the previous PCO’s were ultimately ratified by the Parliament. Thus the oaths taken under those PCO were deemed retrospectively to have been taken under the valid constitution. If this parliament also ratifies 3rd November’s PCO, the oath taken by Dogar and company will become constitutional. Consequently, those who did not take the oath will become history. But this is precisely the difference; this PCO has not been ratified and thus its nature is very different from the PCOs in the past. Until it is ratified it is a limbo and an executive order by the Prime Minister can revoke it. It is because of this difference in the status of this PCO vis-à-vis past PCO’s that also makes the case of those who did not take ought under it different.
The second is a moral argument. It is a subsidiary to the legal argument made above and not a standalone argument. By standing against the dictatorial regime on 9th March 2007, the CJ Iftikhar Chaudry gained a moral high ground. He became, like many other heroes in history, one of those who though once a supporter of an illegal system ultimately rose against it. A very pertinent case is that of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto. He was once part of Ayub’s regime. How would one respond if told that we must not support Bhutto because once he was with Ayub? By ultimately taking stand against the dictator, Bhutto had ‘saved’ himself. The same logic makes the fact of the past support of CJ Iftikhar Chaudry to the establishment irrelevant.
Let me make my final point. Above I tried to defend the restoration of judiciary against those who are arguing against it. Now, I give my final and positive reason for favouring the restoration. It is really not about CJ Iftikhar Chaudry and whether or not he is a good judge (though I am sure he is). It is also not about making judiciary fully independent (though I believe it will support this process). It is really about one’s stance towards Musharraf’s actions on 3rd November. If it was extra-constitutional, if it was illegal, if it was out of bad faith, if it was the latest episode of army’s desire to impose itself on civilians – if it was all this, then the restoration of judges is the ultimate statement that civilians can make to tell the army that no more is its rule acceptable. It is a clear and loud warning that no more will any general’s acts will be atoned by rubberstamp parliament. In my opinion, it is this symbolic and historical value of the restoration of judges that makes it immensely important. Let me make this point clear by saying that even if it was Justice Dogar who was removed on 3rd November, I would have favoured his restoration because it is not the personality of the judge that is at issue but the very act of restoration and its powerful symbolic value.
If what I said above has any value then one more implication follows. It matters that things are restored to the state of November 2. It matters because it was that status that the COAS had dismissed. If the restoration is done with a package that emasculates the judiciary, it is tantamount to capitulating to 3rd November’s. It will be symbolic of civilians once again bowing to the military. Thus, it seems to me that it is not one or some judges or even the institution of judiciary that is the ultimate issue. The ultimate issue is the concrete as well symbolic display of civilian power over the military rule. I have absolutely no doubt that once the matter is understood in these terms, every Pakistani who voted in the election will say that restoration of judiciary is indeed the number one issue of Pakistan.
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93 Responses to “Why do we Need the Restoration of Judiciary?”
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Jahiz Bakhail has given a good analysis ,These views have been
endorsed by five retired chief justices and a large number of retored
judges. Only some lawyers of Musharraf group are complicating the
issue by giving the impression that Nov. 3 action has become part
of constitution as it was validated by Dogar court.
this is simple and clear that untill parliament endorse 03 november this action or act will not become a part of constituion because parliament has the power to make and amend constitution and supreme court can define it i think every body should understand this point
BUSHARRAF HAS TO GO …TODAY OR TOMORROW IT IS NOW WRITTEN ON THE WALL
I think the crux is right here:
Although I agree with the last sentence in above, I think the civilians have been making these statements repeatedly to the jurnails (foreign proxies).
The elephant sitting in the drawing room is our criminal silence over the IMMUNITY of the Military for all the crimes they have committed against us !!!
No one, and I mean from the hawaldar to the Jurnail, NO ONE, has ANY FEAR of ANY CONSEQUENCEs for ANYTHING that they choose to do against us.
Read that again.
What is the most the army can expect if they take over again? Imptent protest, more “forceful statements”, 50% of judiciary falling in line like the corrupt a$$holes they are (just look at the Dogar-Gobar court) , police and army ready to brutalize people, agencies ready to abduct, kill, discard in ‘ganda nala’ the citizens of this country who dared to oppose?
Is this the worth and value of our ideological and principled statements?
When a race horse breaks its legs you shoot it in the head.
When a hunting and guarding dog mauls your kid, you bash it’s head open.
When a Tiger starts devouring humans you shoot it in the head.
When a Pakistani Jurnail, like a thief in the night, steals our God given rights to freedom and liberty, he gets a Medal, Acres of land, and our gratitude for ’saving us’.
THIS is our problem! Restoration of judiciary is like a scratch on the hideous paint of this armored vehicle.
1. Lets us suppose that we (the politicians and all those who dont want restoration of judges) become very selfish and do not restore the judges or even try to restore them through the constitutional amendments - so what would be the implications.
2. If we do either of the above we are ACCEPTING 3RD NOV ACTIONS OF MUSHARRAF and hence WE ARE ACCEPTING THAT ANY ARMY CHIEF CAN DO ANYTHING AND DOES NOT NEED ANY VALIDATION FROM THE PARLIAMENT AND TO UNDO HIS ACTIONS EITHER WE CANNOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT OR IT CAN ONLY BE UNDONE BY TWO THIRD MAJORITY.
3. Hence we are not only handing over the judiciary in future to any army chief but also we are also handing over the sovereignity of the parliament to the whims of army chief.
4. We should all stress that Article 270 AAA is unconsitutional and illegal and Musharraf had no right under any circumstances to do that and Supreme Court had no right under circumstances to validate that - and because they did that - they overstepped their consitutional role.
5. Now we are stressing for restoration of judiciary and very cleverly Musharraf and his lota journalists have changed it to Musharraf vs Iftikhar and now Zardari vs Iftikhar.
6. The question is not about Ifkithar - The question is about legal basis of action of an army chief which was declared illegal by 7 member SC bench.
7. So if by simple resolution the NA declares that Musharraf either should bring in a consitutional amendment by two third majority to validate his 3rd Nov actions and if he is not able to do so all the actions taken under teh powers of Article 270 AAA are declared unconsitutional and therefore we all revert back to Pre Nov 3 scenario.
8. This is such a strong argument that no Jadogar can support that and once Article 270 AAA is declared unconstitutional the judges would be automatically reverted to Nov 3 actions.
9. As for NRO I dont know why Zardari is afraid of that. It is his goverment now and they can themselvels withdraw all the cases against him without any problem.
10. And if necessary it can be accomodated in consitutional package.
These are the reasons why I suggest that judiciary has to be restored.
And if they are not restored then
One day Musharraf is going to dismiss the present goverment, assembly and sent them packing, and he is going to get his actions validated from Dogar and company and politicians would not be able to do anything about that at all. He would not even need validation from the Parliament because there would be a precedence there for his actions in form of Article 270 AAA. I would suggest that everyone should read that article and it clearly says that whatever actions Musharraf has taken and would take in future cannot be challenged in court or any forum. So Musharraf has protected his actions for the future also.
So its in the benefit of both Zardari and NS and in fact everyone to get this Article 270 AAA out of the consitution and also to send Musharraf packing. Musharraf is a fair weather friend. He has a long list of people whom he used for his own benefit and then cast them away.
Well, this is very simple to understand that;
Why do we Need the Restoration of Judiciary?
To convey a message to world and the establishment that there is;
RULE OF LAW IN PAKISTAN
No matter how good or bad those disposed judges were. The point is that Judges were disposed illegally, unlawfully and dishonestly. Now at this time all Pakistani nation including politicians, lawyers, Civil Society and common person should unite to reverse and disagree with that 3 November illegal move by a Army General.
This is very important from the future perspective of Pakistan. Pakistan need to show the world that there are rules and regulation to govern the country and every one have to abide by those laws. If we are succeeded, off course foreign investor will feel confident that in Pakistan nothing can occur out of rules. Investor will be able to take invest in Pakistan without any hesitation. This will raise the importance, respect and status of Pakistan in the international world. Also, a common Pakistani will feel more secure knowing that at least no one will do injustice.
I hope the sun will shine for the first time in the Pakistan for the first time since the birth of Pakistan. People of Pakistan will breath in free air.
Regards,
@all
Forces of darkness (i.e. rejectionists and drawing room ‘intellectuals’) are conspiring against people and two largest elected parties in Pakistan, i.e. PML-N and PPP.
Today they are trying to fool people in the name of judiciary.
Tomorrow they will fool people in the name of A.Q.Khan and Lal Masjid.
It will be followed by protests against the UN lead investigation of BB’s assassination.
and so on and so forth.
What is their agenda?
They want democracy to fail in Pakistan.
They want to strengthen the hands of Mullahs and terrorists. They are working for Pakistan’s enemies such as India and the CIA.
We can save Pakistan’s future by supporting the PML-N and PPP coalitions
On 18 February, people of Pakistan rejected parties such as PML-Q, Jamaat Islami and Imran Khan’s PTI alike.
Now the forces of darkness want this coalition to fail.
But together PPP and PML-N will stay in coalition and the forces of darkness who are conspiring against this country and its federation will fail.
Inshallah.
Jiay Awam, Jiay Bhutto, Jiay Nawaz, Jiay Pakistan.
There is already many good suggestions about the obvious advantages of rule of law. Maybe some comments were unwanted from a certain Yokel.
- Justice for all
- No dictatorial rule. No future GHQ intervention in civil affairs!
- Implementation and execution of same law for the rich as for the poor.
- Accountability for all including the politicians and military personnel.
- The judiciary is a necessity to establish a system along side the law enforcement institution and law makers to ensure the vital check and balance. The media also has a role to play along side the country’s intellectuals.
- The rule of law is the base for all future development be it foreign investment or local investment. When people/companies realise there is rule of law they will multiply their investment. We have the potential to be the future (preferred) country of investment through skilled manpower etc. Given the right opportunities the Pakistanis have shown that they are second to none!
/Saqib
@Sqib
“No dictatorial rule. No future GHQ intervention in civil affairs!”
hahaha
Those working against PPP and PML-N at the behest of ISI and JI (btw what is the difference) are now protesting against the GHQ intervention.
Imran Khan, qadam barhao, 16 carore awam aap kay sath hain.
only if wishes were horses….
@Paindoo
Who is working at the behest of ISI?
/Saqib
@Saqib
Jamaat Islami and its “allies”…. the same dark forces who were rejected by people of Pakistan on 18 February…. They want this democratic system to fail…
@Paindoo
Which “allies” of JI?
We will come back to how they want this “democratic” system to fail.
/Saqib
@Saqib
Imran Khan, for exmaple. Let’s ‘get back’ to your next argument.
@Paindoo
Really a Yokel statement. No, First you put forward your proof!
And don’t say that you are collaborating with somebody just because you have a meeting from a guy who works for ISI.
/Saqib
@Saqib
Yokel is a derogatory term for someone who happens to be a villager. Thanks for that. Indeed you represent Imran Khan’s Tehreek-e-Insaaf.
Moving on, here is the proofl.
Imran Khan asked the people of Pakistan to boycott the 2008 elections. People of Pakistan rejected his appeal and turned out in millions. In total, more than 3 carore people cast their votes out of which more than 1.5 carore were cast in support of PPP and PML-N.
Compare this with this fact:
IK and his party were universally defeated at the polls in the 1997 general elections, during which the Pakistani press reported that Khan’s campaign was financed by a £5 million contribution from his father-in-law at the time, Sir James Goldsmith. Five years later, in the legislative elections held on October 20, 2002, IK’s party won 0.8% of the popular vote and only one out of 272 open seats. The only member of PTI to be elected was Khan himself, who ran from the small constituency of Mianwali.
Now this is beyond doubt that people of Pakistan have rejected Imran Khan. He has no role to play but to conspire against the democratic forces.
What a shameless creature.
@paindoo:
“Yokel is a derogatory term for someone who happens to be a villager”
And what is your opinion of the not only derogatory but racist term usually used by ethnic muhajir supremacists against Punjabi’s, namely “paindoo”
“The lady doth protest too much, methinks”
.
.
@TK
I am a son of the soil and am proud to be the one.
Paindoo is a term which I have proudly chosen to identify myself because I dislike those “urban drawing room pseudo-modern intellectuals” who use difficult English words and phrases to impress ordinary public with their artificial and useless knowledge.
TK, btw I have noticed that you have stopped talking against the federation of Pakistan. At least you have learnt something from my paindoo talk.
@paindoo: “son of soil” another term from the lexicon of MQM .. Bravo. You must have really immersed yourself in it
I am not against the “federation” of Pakistan. I’m against the use of “federation” for exploitation of those who happen to live in the geographical boundaries of Pakistan.
BTW, I express opinions on issues as they come. Nice of you to notice trends. If I’ve learned anything from your paindoo talk it is that your’e full of it (no offense).
@TK
“I am not against the “federation” of Pakistan. I’m against the use of “federation” for exploitation of those who happen to live in the geographical boundaries of Pakistan.”
What a joke! No wonder you support Mullah Imran Khan and other apologists, who are good at only one thing, i.e. double-talk.
@paindoo: Obviously you haven’t been paying attention. fine by me.
@TK
obviously I have been paying attention to your lopsided analysis and bias against the PPP and PML-N coalition.
@paindoo: “obviously I have been paying attention to your lopsided analysis and bias against the PPP and PML-N coalition.”
You prove my accusation. Bro.
(btw, I don’t think anyone’s buying your schtick, so why not quit it and try to have serious discussion for once? eh? )
Meanwhile, chew on this for a while, and let me know what is your “man on the street” opinion on this.. (or is it “man in the Kholi view” ?? )
http://www.pkdemocrat.wordpress.com
Check this out and see what is Zardari’s agenda. He killed BB. I am sure.
@TK
Thanks for the link. I like this paper.
MQM - indeed there are strong concerns about the fact that there remains a strong faction within that party which resorts to violence to achieve their political objectives.
But we have similar concerns (on varying scales) about feudals in Sindh, tribal leaders in Balochistan, tribal Maliks and Mullahs in NWFP, and feudals and qabza groups in Punjab.
Violence in any form, in all forms, must be condemned, unconditionally.
While I condemn violence by MQM in Karachi, and by feudal and tribal lords in other provinces, I have one small question.
When was the last time that your leader Imran Khan condemned the Taliban sponsored terrorism in Pakistan without justifying it under the cover of his “revenge theory”?
@TK: you know seem like a sensible person, but what the hell is with this tendency for broad brush wild accusations without trying to understand someone’s point of view?
Just because I approve of IK’s tactical step, it means “he is my leader”? nay “It MUST mean so”…
I have acutally come out against his flimsy defense of the taliban issue and his implications that somehow Taliban were an “indigenous, grassroots” (paraphrasing) movement (about as real as MQM btw, IMO) in Afghanistan.
And trust me, I’ve got bitemarks on my butttcheeks to show for it. So.. don’t go on half-cocked making accusations. Btw, I find your “critique” of MQM rather “mar-yal” .. but that is somehow expected (or maybe I’m being my drawing-room rejectionist etc self ;’-) )
And the platitudes about feudalism, violence, taliban etc? Totally agree!
@Paindoo: lol
@TK
3 issues:
1.
To an urbal drawing-room intellectual, I now seem a sensible person…..
Hmm….do I need that certificate btw?
2.
“what the hell is with this tendency for broad brush wild accusations without trying to understand someone’s point of view”
I think in your previous posts, you termed me an MQM racist and also an agency trall?
3.
So you disown Imran Khan? good for you. but who do you support then? Anti-federation forces?
NS news conference on now….
NS is talking the things that the ex-dictator did on Nov 3…..
He is saying that PML(N) became part of the govt. for the sake of restoration of the Judiciary…
May 12th is the D-DAY….
On..May 12, 2008, Inshallah, The Judiciary will be restored, through a resolution in Parliament. A notification will be issued for this cause.
The constitutional package will also come soon which is under already review.
@paindoo: yes, I still think you are an agency/mqm troll. You have been trolling to distract from the conversation.
“To an urbal drawing-room intellectual, ” — I’m about as much a drawing-room blah.. as you are a “paindoo”. enough said.
I will disown Imran Khan when you disown Altaf Hussain and his fascist tactics..
The legal committee composed of AA, Abdul Hafeez Pirzada, Fakhar-udin-Ibrahim, Khawaja Harris, Raza Rabbani and Farooq Naik will draft the resolution, after which It will be presented in Parliament.
@TK
there you again with your MQM allegations and the sorts…. Obviously you don’t pay attention to my posts.
“I will disown Imran Khan when you disown Altaf Hussain and his fascist tactics..”
But, my question still remains… Who do you support then? Anti-federation forces? Are you and Indian agent - working for RAW?
aoa
judges will not be re instated by may 12. they will be another problem before that date. what the coalition need to do is announce this in parliament and not in press conferences. by announcing this way they have given the dictator time to react.
@paindoo: perhaps you should stick to your “bleeding heart PML n PPP supporter” schtick..
and yes.. I do work for RAW.. but then again 2 plus 2 eauals four therefore it must mean your are against oxygen. ipso facto.
BTW, Altaf Bhai lipstick laga kay kitnay suNdar lagtay haiN naa? [BLINK.. BLINK]
@Paindoo
Sorry for my late reply. I ahd to have som fresh fresh air.
“IK and his party were universally defeated at the polls in the 1997 general elections, during which the Pakistani press reported that Khan’s campaign was financed by a £5 million contribution from his father-in-law at the time, Sir James Goldsmith. Five years later, in the legislative elections held on October 20, 2002, IK’s party won 0.8% of the popular vote and only one out of 272 open seats. The only member of PTI to be elected was Khan himself, who ran from the small constituency of Mianwali.”
Ha,ha,ha…Do you think I am a yokel? Is that your “proof”? Only allegations, and where is the ISI link? Do your homework properly. I have never said that PTI is a major party or had a vote bank like PPPP or PML-N.
People on this site is not going to buy stuff like that, because then nobody will survive. You are talking about hatred of PPPP and PML-N. Hatred is a very strong word. I would say far too strong. I can dislike or disagree with certain actions policies. I have been debating with PPPP supporters like Pejamistri and Fahim23. Both are people I have respect for, because they try to explain their positions and defend (sometimes jiyala like
), but that is their right. I can disagree, but not HATE them or their party. Likewise I have great respect for people like especially Javed Hashmi of PML-N and Khawaja Asif, Sa’ad Rafique, Ahsan Iqbal, but the respect is intact only as long as they (IMO) work for real democracy and for the poor people of Pakistan, rule of law etc. Btw I have also immense respect for Aitzaz Ahsan from PPPP. The day these people including IK deviate from democracy, rule of law etc. my ways will be different from theirs. I hope you got it now otherwise you really MUST be y…..
Btw do you have any comments on the work IK has done in his constituency?
Namal lake college. Road project etc.
/Saqib
FYI: I have many friends who are from “pind”. I don’t hate villagers either!
@ aftab
They will be restored Inshallah.
Lets support our political leaders.
Yes I gree that Mush is still there but without support from Gen.Kiayani he cannot do anything. If the army stays out then Mush is history.
But if the army sides with Musharraf, then GOD help us all.
But most likely the army will stay out because the lawyers movement have changed the society forever. The army will allow the civilians to make decisions and run the government.
aoa
@ninetykman
I hope you are right but i must admit i still get the feeling the army or the agencies will have go and try to make this unsuccessful, just by they past actions. but inshallah i must also be very clear that i hope i am proven wrong.
TK, dude you are wasting your time with these numbnuts…;’-) The way I see it, any meaningful _discussion_ or exchange of ideas can only take place when the other person keeps an open mind and does not believe in something blindly….This poor poor dude Paindoo exhibits some classic symptoms of having been properly diddled at a young age. This explains his torturous reasoning, warped mentality and dumb snappy comebacks. He hasn’t posted a single intelligent and meaningful idea about anything. This forum has lost its quality because of the crud like this. Back and forth incriminations, accusations and stupid remarks about ethnicity…What a turn-off..
Most likely he works for the Namaloom Afraad ki Siyaasi Jamaat propaganda cell that keeps on flooding youtube with embarrassing videos of the Kaali Maata and thinks people will get converted to the “educated” leadership of Namaloom Afraad ki Siyaasi Jamaat . P!ss on Chooran Devi and anybody who supports her/him(it?)…;-)
Meh…
This Paindoo guy reminds me of the very old net meme: Arguing on the internet is like running in special Olympics. Even if you win, you end up looking retarded.
@ninetykman
“Yes I gree that Mush is still there but without support from Gen.Kiayani he cannot do anything.”
You mean the parliament is NOT SUPREME? BLASPHEMY!!!
aoa
@saqib
very well said and fully agree with your points, when our heroes do not perform we will also criticise them.
@mbokhari:
“ooh you’re on the monkey’s side too? eh? WELL THE MONKEY STARTED IT!” — kramer
Hi guys,
I was wondering why A.Zardari became reluctant to restore judges,the main reason is not NRO because eventually 90% of politicians in PML N and PPP(P) need NRO if they were against our beloved Retd.Gen.P.Musharraf because everyone of those has NAB cases against them. So whenever parliament convenes it will legitimise NRO plus post 12th Oct 99 cases(against NS coz hijacking holds a life-sentence)
They binding force between AZ and NS is Musharraf and judiciary. And if either of these problems is solved the other problem will automatically cease to exist.
So restoring judiciary will mean that SC will clip wings of Musharraf eventually, and then NS will say goodbye to coalition coz his agenda will be met.
Plz comment
@ Paindoo
“”The only member of PTI to be elected was Khan himself, who ran from the small constituency of Mianwali.””"
what u mean by ” the small constituency of mianwali”" ???
@ hawmajid
1- Will u let us know a snigle member of PMLN who has got benefit of NRO??? answer to this will be good for your own brain sotrming ( if u have one )
2-Do u really beleive that hijacking case is a valid case against NS?
3- NS sentence was pardoned by president Rafiq Tarar.
aoa
no one in cabinet has got benefit of nro as far as i know.
@mbokhari on May 2nd, 2008 3:37 pm
thanks for posting your recent pic on the internet. who is this child you are with btw? perhaps it is TK who was impressed by your knowledge and books and girl friend and beer?
what a load of non-sense you are? and how detached you are from Pakistan and its culture.
Reading your posts, and looking at your blog, I have no doubt that you work for RAW, poisoning ordinary Pakistani minds against this poor country.
Leave us alone, you Machiavellian Prince.
hehe…paindoo… I don’t work for pathetic Indoos. They don’t pay up on time…I am a proud Israeki intelligence agent looking to create a separate Israeki province in the Azeezabad area of Karachi. We plan to kick all funny looking bakra-worshippers out and settle fierce and proud Pakistanis in their place.
Mathay tey chamkan waal meray BAKRAY dey
My assignment is to post anti-Bakra messages and enrage the bakRa-worshippers by making fun of their Queen Bakri of London Town until they go mad and start calling everyone agents of RAW.
Wasn’t it your Mother Goat who declared this country the grrrrratust blunderrr? What is your opinion of Mother Goat? You have never told us except to say you find it very handsome, educated and chuGGi (4-teethed)
Ba ba black sheep, have you any Ghairat?
@mbokhari
your post suggests that you are extremely well-read and well-versed.
Btw, do you know that Abu Jehl was previously known as Abul Ilm. It was before he started conspiring against Islam.
And indeed you are conspiring against Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
A small correction: There is no Israeki language or province in my country.
Perhaps you meant Seraiki. Only if RAW agents were that educated….
Or you had an overdose of beer?
@ Paindoo
“”The only member of PTI to be elected was Khan himself, who ran from the small constituency of Mianwali.”””
what u mean by ” the small constituency of mianwali”” ???
@teendoo
I ask you about the last Leader, your Aakhri Qaid, the Kaatem-e-Qaideen and you bring in Abu Jehl? Freud? Is that you old friend?
Let me ask you again:
——–
Wasn’t it your Mother Goat who declared this country the grrrrratust blunderrr? What is your opinion of Altaf Bai, London Wali? You have never told us except to say you find it very handsome, educated and chuGGi (4-teethed)
Ba ba black sheep, have you any Ghairat?
@mbokhari
Indeed, all Syeds and Bokharis will be proud of you.
Btw, I will not say anything against your mother, because according to our culture, “mothers are saanjhi”.
MQM, refer to my views in my posts above. I would not repeat my comments for a learned PPP hater such as yourself.
@teendoo
Yar, aap naraaz ho gaye haiN…Dil pe le liya hai….Don’t cry
Mother are indeed saanjhi, but not Queen Mother Goats like this one here.
Have you ever seen that great movie “Aliens” with Sigourney Weaver? The Mother Alien is fiercely protected by her acolytes as they hatch out of hundreds of eggs. That scene always reminds me of MQM jalsaas…haha
BTW, a sad clip about the 1992 operation. Rest In Peace to all the martyrs of the Army Operation. It was senseless murder.
@mbokhari
“Have you ever seen that great movie “Aliens” with Sigourney Weaver? The Mother Alien is fiercely protected by her acolytes as they hatch out of hundreds of eggs.”
Indeed, I am least impressed by such out of place references to Western movies or Western literature.
I know this is an ‘ancient’ practice of our drawing room pseudo-modern philosophers cum politicians to impress others with their knowledge. Unfortunately, it does not work for a paindoo such as myself.
Indeed, our prayers are for all those who were senselessly murdered whether in Sindh, Balochistan, NWFP or Punjab.
And indeed, the greatest trajedy in this country was the judicial murder of Bhutto.
But, since you are a self-professed Bhutto hater, you will never admit that.
All PPP haters must be licking their …….. today after the announcement of restoration of judiciary.
@bhondoo
Have you SEEN the clip I posted?
And, indeed, ZAB was a great leader. Perhaps the greatest after Jinnah. But he was also very flawed. He is No.8 on my list of all-time top 10 greatest Pakistanis here.
But don’t try to hide behind PPP. I have a bet with my friend about MQM supporters. He says they are out burning government records in the Sindh Secretariat, KPT buildings etc and have no time to post on message boards. I think otherwise. I bet on you buddy. Make my day. Admit that you think Altaf Bai is the Napoleon, the Sikandar, the Akbar Aazam of Karachi. If you don’t want to confess, just say the following and I will know:
“Itnay achay achay log, itnay pyaray pyaray log, itnay PIYARAY PIYARAY log,
[clap loudly like Altaf Bai, London Wali]
ShaaAAAaaabbBBaaaAAAaash!!!!
LOL @ mbokhari
1992 operation clip
(I meant the clip about the army operation.)
It is 1992. The Good fought the Evil. The Evil Won.
You will see Altaf Hussain.
You will see the brutal murderers from the Army.
You will see senseless death.
[daDan! daDan! ....horror music.....]
Sometimes the scariest things come from within.
@mbokhai
ain’t you the same person who was bragging the other day on this website about your girlfriend and beer?
Now all of a sudden, you are showering us with your assessment of top 10 Pakistanis. Go to hell along with your assessment.
btw, the most hated persons of your list: (mbokhari on May 2nd, 2008 6:56 pm)
8.Maulana Maududi
9.Z.A.Bhutto
Despite my differences with JI, I do not consider Maulana Maududi as the worst Pakistani.
You hate Bhutto, you hate Maududi.
You love India.
All of a sudden, I recall, being a Syed, you must be a descendant of Mir Jafar Mir Sadiq Nang-e-Deen Nang-e-Watan
Leave Pakistanis alone, you RAW agent. Shame on you.
@mbokhari;
“I ask you about the last Leader, your Aakhri Qaid, the Kaatem-e-Qaideen and you bring in Abu Jehl? Freud? Is that you old friend?”
———-Did you forget ’spartacus of south asia’. Read the comment here.
A piece of advice: Dont make the guy toooo mad. You never know when he will take out his pistol from under his shirt and shoot you, if you were there. Since you are not, he might shoot the first he sees, or himself if he finds no one within reasonable amount of time.
@teendoo
Yar, aap naraaz ho gaye haiN…Dil pe le liya hai….Don’t cry
The topic is not Maududi. Or ZAB. Or ZIa. Or Me. Or You.
The topic is the Queen Bakra of London….
Do you support him? Do you like him? Do you love him? Do you think naughty thoughts about him?
Be a MAN. Answer the question!
Ba ba black sheep, have you any GHairat?
oops, forgot the link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaNy2NqeSBs
@all
@mbokhari
Qadiani cum RAW agent exposed
Please read this post:
mbokhari on May 2nd, 2008 6:02 pm
Now read this post:
mbokhari on May 2nd, 2008 6:56 pm
and also see mbokhari’s list of top ten Pakistanis:
http://pkpolitics.com/2008/04/04/discuss-ten-greatest-worst-pakistanis/
see who is at number 4 in his list of Greatest: ( Dr. Abdus Salam)
Now read his comments about Khaatem-e-Qaideen
Use a little bit of psychology theory (the Freudian slip). Why did he use this term?
Now consider the fact that ZAB was the one who declared Qadianis as non-Muslims because they don’t consider our Prophet (pbuh) the Khaatem-e-Nabiyeen.
This explains why this moron hates ZAB in his list of most hated Pakistanis (at number 9).
This proves his Qadiani connection, hence this venom against Pakistan and Bhuttos.
@fas
hahaha…………. now I know why MQM gathers so many people , a free live comedy show
@fas
haha..hehe…dude…thats just soo funny…Spartacus..haha..of Sout Asia…hehe..
If anything, Queen Bakra is the Shivaji Maharaj of Pakistan. The Baak Thakary of Karachi. The Narendra Modi of Sindh….
But I heed your advice about teendoo….
Yaar teendoo….I apologize about my stupid comments about your leader…Can I have my mobile back? ..Is that an Uzi?….er. Why are you pointing it at me…hey! wait!…..Aaaaarrrrggghhh
Jiye Muttahida !!!! (Jootay kha ke)
Kaali Mata Shakti Dey !!!
Qaid ki jo Shalwar Hai!!!
Azarband ki Hakdaar Hai!!!
My list of Best Pakistani
1. Z. Bhutto
2. B.Bhutto
3. Mohammad Ali Jinnah
4. Sir Sultan Mohammad Shah
5. Allama Iqbal
6. G.M. Syed (for presenting Pakistan resolution in Sindh Assembly)
7. Akbar Bugti
8. Ghaffar Khan
9. Sheik Mujib Reham (he was secartery of Mohammad Ali Jinnare)
10. Prince Ali S. Khan (first represtative of Pakistan in UN)
@kinnare
With a slight reordering I agree with your list generally.
Jiay Bhutto, Jiay Awam. Qadiani Fitna Murdabad. Raw agents Murdabad.
This one is a better but some serious performance. (No Laughs please it is a serious show) , Hansna Manaa Hai , Seeing is a must.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjUkL_nrFw0
Hafeez Pirzada would be represedenting Gen Mush (Army) so much for democrate.
Army is law in Pakistan
@teendoo
You refuse to answer my question about Altaf Hussain. Do you support him? Do you like him? Do you touch yourself when you think about him?
And bringing religion into it, tch tch…thats just too low….If I was Qadiani I wouldn’t hide it. I find their prophet a funny guy (dying on toilet), no offense to any Qadianis, of course. I am a Pastafarian Muslim if you must know.
——————-
@peja
This video was before Altaf Hussain underwent a metamorphosis from a normal human being into a Bakra.
So much like Franz Kafka’s cockroach. The famous opening sentences of Kafak’s work, only modified:
@mbokhari
it would take a lot of courage for you to admit your Qadiani connection.
I know Qadianis have not forgiven ZA Bhutto Shaheed.
Now you are conspiring against the PPP-PML-N coalition, you moron.
Go and have another glass of beer, because you are a “Pastafarian Muslim” as per your own words.
Do you realize that by claiming to be a Pastafarian Muslim, you have insulted Islam. But do you care?
You Pastafarian little thing, a joint agent of Qadianis and RAW.
@pejamistri on May 2nd, 2008 8:06 pm
lol…
@teendoo
Aaah….Savairy tun TK toon juttyaN kha ka aya aen, hun mere kol kha rya aen…baRa ee besharam aen tu oye, teendoo-aa
Seriously, TK and fas went medieval on your @ss. Its just that you are too retarded to notice how humiliating and funny it was for everyone else.
I find the Qadianis funny and I am a Pastafarian Muslim. And I apologize for the 1992 Army operation on behalf of all Pastafarian Pakistanis. That’s that.
Now.
Why have you not mentioned Altaf Hussain even once. Is he the love that dare not speak its name?
I have a bet with my friend about MQM supporters. He says they are out burning government records in the Sindh Secretariat, KPT buildings etc and have no time to post on message boards. I think otherwise. I bet on you buddy. Make my day. Admit that you think Altaf Bai is the Napoleon, the Sikandar, the Akbar e Aazam of Karachi. If you don’t want to confess, just say the following and I will know:
“Itnay achay achay log, itnay pyaray pyaray log, itnay PIYARAY PIYARAY log,
[clap loudly like Altaf Bai, London Wali]
ShaaAAAaaabbBBaaaAAAaash!!!!
———————-
I will not be responding unless you make yourself clear and answer ONE question from the following:
1. Do you support Altaf Bai/MQM?
2. Do you find him pretty?
3. Are you Altaf Bai? (I think you are.)
@ mbokhari
I am happy that you have refrained from your usual venom against PPP and Asif Zardari today.
Re your allegations re my MQM affilation; since you are a Qadiani cum RAW moron, I will only ask you to refer to my post above:
paindoo on May 2nd, 2008 1:52 pm
and also read my post:
paindoo on May 2nd, 2008 7:50 pm
and then understand, why I am against those Qadianis cum RAW agents who are working against Pakistan and PPP and PML-N coalition.
I know Qadianis have very tight supportive networks.
you did not answer my question? Is beer halal in your religion? do you live in Qadian Shareef?
@mbokhari
you wrote: hun mere kol juttyaN kha rya aen
Oye, Ghulami-e-Rasoool (pbuh) wich tay maut ve qubool aye, qadiani fitnay da muqabila tay may khoob kar lan ga.
Down with Qadiani cum RAW conspiracy against Pakistan and its people.
@ all
Allah Waris.
Beware of Qadiani cum RAW agents and their sazish against Pakistan and its elected government (PPP-PML-N coalition)
Rab Rakha.
@teendoo
OK. I read your posts Fair enough.
I am somewhere in the EU and Qadianis are Kafir. They don’t know what they are missing, they should join Pastafarians.
I don’t know about beer but bear is halal…Also, Noodles MUST be eaten with every meal…My sheikh says I must focus on all kinds of Pasta, like macaroni, fettuccine and lasagna before I can take the oath of Mac & Cheese:
Our Spaghetti
Who art in the colander
Hallowed be thy sauce
Thy Mozarella come,
Thy flavor be One,
In fridge as it is in oven
Give us this day our daily meatball
And forgive us our starchiness
As we forgive those who are starchy against us
Lead us not into Mac & Cheese
And deliver us from Chef Boy Ardee
For thine is the garlic
And the onion and the bay leaves
For taste and flavor,
Ramen
———————————
P.S. Relax a little. I’m just having some fun…Learn to laugh at yourself (and at Kaali Maata)…
@kinnare
My list of ten greatest pakistan ever—
1. Wada saien Ghulam Murtaza Bhutto
2. Chota saien Shahnawaz Bhutto
3. Menda saien Zulfiqar Bhutto
4. Bibi Nusrat Bhutto
5. Choti bibi Benazi Bhutto
6. Bilawal Zardari
7. Bukhtawar Zardari
8. Asifa Zardari
9. Sada saien Zardari ten percent
10. Faryal Talpur
Allah sub saien log ko kush rakhey aur unn ka hath hum ghulamon kay sar per rakhey
@mbokhari: oh no.. tun ennoN huNR tikkar chapeRaaN maar rayaa aeN /??
Oye pudinnay kay baagh kay Teendoo ! chadd day! chadd day!
Seriously Teendoo, It’s friday night man.. go out with your friends.. oh wait.. sorry I mentioned.. oops!
A Very hot story by Ansar Abbasi regarding the 3rd class threats he & Rauf Klasra are getting from PPP.
PPP also believes that Jang Group is doing “SAZISH” against PPP & AZ.
Source:
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/may2008-daily/02-05-2008/main4.htm
@fas
Are you adda Matkoo Saeein (4man)? Hahaha…
Saeein, idhar hum log ka sakal bhi dekho ni…Bhutto chala gaya, Benazir ki shahadat ho gaya ni, ab idhar kai din se apna bhi tabyat mabyat kharab hai, adda!!!
—–
@TK
I feel sorry for the teendoo…He seems very pathetic, poor guy…What is he doing wasting precious time in some dirty, smelly internet cafe in Machchar Colony near Golimar. He should sleep tight and get back to repairing punctured tires in the morning.
@mbokhari: after what you and @fas did to him. even I feel sorry for him… But being a RAW agent, I should try to control my emotions…
According to Daily Times President Musharaf agreed to restore judges but had some reservations the sources informed Mr.Zardari.
There are still differences between the two major parties of Pakistan on the issue of judges and another deadline date given is close enough will they be able to resolve differences in 9 days?
@Mbokhari
—
…Also, Noodles MUST be eaten with every meal…My sheikh says I must focus on all kinds of Pasta, like macaroni, fettuccine and lasagna before I can take the oath of Mac & Cheese
—
I am laughing my ass off
Please pardon my french here a bit:
WHO IN THE TITTY FCUK is ASKING MOSHARRAF TO “RESTORE” AnYONE?
who HT FCUK IS IT? BECAUSE S/HE SHOULD BE SHOT!
Don’t tell me it’s the JI and ISI moles in PPP now spreading rumors Moshe Kutyaan will do it. Way to legitimize him DOUCHEBAGS!
@TK
Do you have a link on this news?
excellent article.
@Amir Hameed: I’m looking for it too.. I can’t find it.. maybe the transvestites are doing it as part of their nth “Khamba nochay” campaign? losers!
@ TK
and as per my info lawyers leaders and judges have discussed this issue on urgent basis and i think their respose to any such premptive strike will be ……..that judges will refuse to accept any such order from mush declaring it Illegal. it will actually b a stamp on his illegal status.
This will actually will back fire so i think mush might not go for it.
@ALL!!! Please help the cause
The deadlock is still there.
My suspicion is that Zardari and Nawaz are hiding that there still is a deadlock. There is a good chance that Zardari didn’t budge from the idea of clipping the claws of CJ Choudri and keeping Dogar the Gobar and the beetels in there with him. There is a chance that Zardari is still adamant that CJ should retire in a short period of time after restoration. Also a good chance that AZ is still in love with Moshe and all what they agreed on was, let’s give it another 10 days in the hope that the other may come to his scenes.
So, there is no reason in my view to hope that Zardari will restore the Judiciary according to the wishes of the lawyers and the country, just yet.
If he keeps Dogar the gobar and his beetles in there then, is that what the public has been waiting for since the last 14 months? Is this the Judiciary we want?
I believe the dead lock is still there and that’s why this legal committee of all these lawyers that represent the different stakeholders has been created.
They will be quibbling for middle ground. If no middle ground id found by 12th, don’t be expecting any miracles. So I believe pressure should be mounted on Zardari by every Pakistani to restore the Judiciary to the pre 3rd setup, the way it was.