85 Responses to “Capital Talk - 6 May 2008”

1. admin pkpolitics on May 7th, 2008 1:40 am

   Free version added.

   Admin

2. establishment on May 7th, 2008 2:29 am

   i want judges to be restored asap but to be honest before that i want electricity.

3. Renaissance on May 7th, 2008 2:41 am

   Free and independent judiciary is the single most important problem for any society to survive. Without it, even a constant supply of electricity can’t be guaranteed; you might get it (like arabs are getting due to oil wealth) but it is not guaranteed. Dispensation of justice can ultimately be a check on wapda and other public and private institutions. Dispensation of justice without a free, fair and independent judiciary is impossible.

4. Mulla Nafs e Zakkiya on May 7th, 2008 2:44 am

   peerzada still has fire power….

   by the way, could it be that, a faint possibility that, the core of our issues is that our constitution might be a flawed document…and based on some cut and paste back then from some where ….

   Mulla!

5. God that failed on May 7th, 2008 2:48 am

   Admin,
   a bundle of thanks for your invaluable efforts and services. May Allah bless you!

6. God that failed on May 7th, 2008 3:31 am

   I feel like rephrasing the statement by Mr. Hafeez Pirzadah “Mera master aik hi hai woh Allah Taalah hai uske baghair main kisi ko nahin manta…Mera political leader Muhammad Ali Jinnah tha uske siwa main kisi ko leader nahin manta kyoon ke woh kisi Viceroy, kisi Gandhi, kisi Nehru, kisi shakhs ke samne nahin jhuka…uske baad main kisi ko leader nahin manta.

7. Hameed Chaudhry on May 7th, 2008 5:17 am

   Assalam-o-Alaikum,

   Thanks Admin, for uploading todays Capital Talk for non premium members but regular viewers of pkpolitics.

   After listening the arguments of two honourable law experts Mr. Hafeez Pirzada Sahib and Chaudhry Aitzaz Ahsan Sahib. I come to the conclusion that Federal Law Minister Mr. Naik and Federal Interior Advisor Mr. Rehman Malik two main negotiators of PPP is not willing to accept the legal advice and recomendations by the followings senior lawyers nominated by the PML(N) Mr. Fakhruddin G. Ibrahim, Mr. Hafeez Pirzada and Mr. Aitzaz Ahsan the way they are bringing on the table while in secret and close door meeting in last 2-3 days.

   I am a very strong political supporter of PPP ……. but it is un-acceptable to get the blowing press conference from Mr. Hoti, Chief Minister NWFP regarding mishandling an another important issue by Mr. Rehman Malik without prior permission of the Prime Minister Mr. Yousaf Raza Gillani of re-scheduling the dates of coming By-Elections and make shameful position for other PPP party leadership for nothing.

   Mr. Rehman Malik, presently on edge as I can see him from here. If the negociation in between PPP and PML(N) failed to get a solution before May 12,2008 for bringing up a draft for the executive order must be issued by the Prime Minister and Chief Executive of Pakistan with the approval of National Assembly as a will of nation, which clearly do nul and void the illegal and un-constituted orders of Pervez Musharraf and bring back the existing judiciary of Supreme Court and High Courts of Pakistan at the position of November 02, 2007. If by any means, the present coalation collapse due to mishandling PPP will never spare
   few individuals presently on key posts.

   In my opinion, the formula presented by Aitzaz Ahsan is easy and perfect ………. we need an executive order which reverce the illegal and un-constituted orders made by a un-lawful government servant of Pakistan holding BPS-22 post and drawing regular sallary sack the honourable judiciary which is the unique example in the history which is accountable to the present coalation government and he should be charged for his crime and ……… punished as per advise and recommended in the 1973 constitution. ( As it was discussed in this program pointed out by Mr. Hamid Mir and confirmed by the founder and expert of constitution Mr. Hafeez Pirzada )

   I personally love transmission of Geo TV, but disagree with showing Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah crying in an add made for restoration of judges ……… I dont like when my son ask me why the Father of the Nation is crying in this add, I was speach less have no answer for him …………. this is the time to check our moral values, we dont need to put finger on opponents today we all have to pin point one culprit and remove him without delaying a minute from the honourable post which is not his legal place to hold for a second.

   PAKISTAN ZINDABAD …………….. PERVEZ MUSHARRAF MURDABAD

8. DyaarEishq on May 7th, 2008 5:38 am

   har banda joo Dictaitor ko support karta hai woo apna aap ko Muhammad Ali Jinnah ka pairokaar kehta hai chaha wo hafiz ud din peerzada hoo ya muslim league q hoo

9. DyaarEishq on May 7th, 2008 5:48 am

   aitazaz ahsan is really genious he comes with great idea of ad hoc judges

10. Renaissance on May 7th, 2008 6:08 am

    very nice and cutting program by hamid mir. See how Aitizaz was put in a difficult situation by mir.

    I think there should be a threshold after which one should resign from his party. I disagree with the Nazis but I am a member of Nazi party, that ’s not a good justification.

11. Fahim23 on May 7th, 2008 6:39 am

    @Renaissance

    think there should be a threshold after which one should resign from his party

    Quitters are loosers. When you own your party and consider it your family you don’t leave it on mere perceptions or little things. You try to improve it.

12. nota on May 7th, 2008 6:39 am

    @DyaarEishq
    “ad hoc judges”

    What a stinker! No thnaks AA!!

    @Renaissance
    “there should be a threshold after which one should resign from his party”

    Agree. But maybe AA has a threshold that he will never reach

13. NoHypocracy on May 7th, 2008 9:48 am

    I thought it would be useful to transcribe in text the actually words of Peerzada where he makes his case. The clear answer of AA is in one line … namely if you hold that a single person cannot through an order nullify the PCO judges decision then by the same token a single person cannot bring the PCO judges into being.

    —-My transcript starts here; all text in brackets [] is my words added fro my own clarification—-

    Q. Will judges be restored
    P. We will do our best. committee will finalise recommendations then parties must decide
    Q. You say a constitutional ammended is required for judges restoration
    P. This is my view and has been for some time. Additionally the proclamation of emergency is not the only thing. Our tradition has been that after each proclamation whether of emergency or of martial law a new adhoc legal framework is brought; that is challanged in the court; the court then gives it validation. In the Dooso case the proclamation was deemed a “revolutionary step” that had ushered in a new legal order [a new legal environment] [and that the doctrine of necessity therefore applied]. In the Asma Jilani case the proclamation was deemed illegal and the court said that through some action the court would condone it and through some other action the parliament would condone it. Regarding the Zia martial law in the Nusrat Bhutto case the court introduced a new element. In addition to speaking of the doctrine of necessity, the court did not speak of condonation of Zia’s action but said that we validate it. After validating the act the court further gave Zia permission to amend the constitution. The root of the quarrel is in this. Zia brought the 14th constitutional presidential order subsequently formalised in the 8th amendment which is incorporated as article 270A. In October 1999 Musharaf issued another adhoc provisional constitutional order saying that through an extra constitutional step the constitution was in abeyance, and this also came before the court as the Zafar Ali Shah case. Again the court under the doctrine of necessity validated rather than condoned the PCO, and Musharaf was further also given power to amend the constitution. This was incorporated as Article 270AA of the constitution first as a Chief Executive’s order then as the 17th Amendment. We are now working under this precedent. The current issue is not whether Musharaf could or could not impose the latest emergency. The issue is that seven judges declared it invalid. These seven judges were removed. We do not here discuss how this removal was done. The 3rd Nov action was extra-constitutional and you may call it what you wish. A new seven member bench rejected the first seven judges decision and on the basis of the Zafar Ali Shah case deemed the PCO valid and additionally gave chief executive the power to amend the constitution. It is big issue as to whether this second seven member bench can be termed supreme court or not. This emergency was short and was lifted in December.
    Q. Surely the judges who nullified the first seven judges order were not legally judges at all.
    P. Who is to decide that? Do we give this right to one person, to the executive, to the court, or to parliament.
    Q Will not the constitution decide?
    P. Yes. But this book has defined the limits of powers of the executive, judiciary and legeslature. Don’t misunderstand me, I do believe the second judges order can be undone, under this existing constitution. But my view is that we cannot give this right outside the constitution [of undoing] to any single individual because this would be a very dangerous precedent for the future. There are two ways. One is that parliament has power to overide the judgement and nullify it.
    Q Through a constitutional amendment?
    P. Through legislation. Constitutional amendment is legislation for which a requisite majority is layed down. The second way is for the supreme court to strike down the judgement since prior judgements are never binding on the supreme court. This is irrespective of whether the PCO judges were validly appointed or not, since the supreme court continued to exist even if some judges were or were not really judges.

    —-My transcript ends here—-

14. NoHypocracy on May 7th, 2008 9:56 am

    @Hameed Choudhry

    Regarding the tears that GEO depicts rolling down the Quaid’s cheek, I fully agree with you. Funnily enough my father said the same thing yesterday (and he was there in person when Quaid his most historic pre-partition speeches).

15. NoHypocracy on May 7th, 2008 9:57 am

    in line one of my first post .. actually = actual

16. Saqib on May 7th, 2008 10:08 am

    Why the necessity to make a committee at this point? Since November the political parties have known that coconut-Mush made unconstitutional crimes. A half year has passed and they just come to think of ”constructing” a committee, which has the purpose to recommend what to do about the judiciary crisis. As far as I know they are not bound to follow the committee’s recommendation. What the heck is this? Are they still playing games after all this spanking from the public? It is clear that games are still being played. The captain of this team is PPP/AZ. They are constantly playing with the sentiments of the people by their “short circuit talk”, which will ultimately blow up the “switchboard”= Pakistan. If PPP had a clear conscience they would have prepared and planned the post election proceedings with PML-N, which could have included plan A, B, C etc. Why did that not happen? Or did it happen? I think the last mentioned happened, but with the (big) difference that it was not about restoring the judges. It was rather about wheel and deal. How disgusting to play with peoples mandate in that way. They had a clear manadate to restore the judges and then proceed to all the other evils. I am afraid that something is “cooking” in this committee, which will not be digest-able to the nation and that is exactly why the honourable Fakhruddin quit. Fakhruddin rightly opted out of this farce. Why be a part of a team lead by a corrupt captain (AZ) and a corrupt vice captain (RM). Nobody should have doubts that PPP has been contaminated severely to an extent that there is no return to normalcy, which (normalcy) IMO was under early ZAB era. PPP has been contaminated by the agencies and waderas. The latter are not necessarily evil by nature, but it is evident which purpose most of them serve while in office. Where are the jiyalas from the middle class? Is it Jahangir Badar, just to name an arbitrary person from that party? Jahangir Bandar can hardly be called a politician from the middle class right now. Hasn’t he “worked” for gathering wealth? ”This is the most beautiful sentence” (his proclamation whenever he comments a BB statement….bum licker mentality). It is quite a rarity to hear anything sensible or non short circuit talk from this man. Look at how he got a spanking in “Jawab Deyh”. He just hadn’t any reliable “jawab”…..”This is the most beautiful sentence”….bootlicker

    Btw I think Hamid Mir got it wrong in his conclusion. As far as I understood he said none of them would defend a dictator or marshal law, but in fact Pirzada said that he would not defend Marshal law, but he would defend a dictator in a case where the “national security is endangered”. On contrary AA was of the opinion that he would not defend Marshall or a dictator.
    /Saqib

17. dr on May 7th, 2008 10:10 am

    Hafeez Razeelzada and Sharif haramzada are two ghaddars and should be hanged by their testic*es.

18. Saqib on May 7th, 2008 10:17 am

    In a way I think it is all right to depict the Quaid with tearful eyes. Look at how the GHQ etc. has screwed the whole process of the “Islamic” state of Pakistan? Are we anyway nearby achieving our goals in ANY field? Look at how the poor suffer. Isn’t that reason enough for Quaid to have tearful eyes?

    /Saqib

19. dr on May 7th, 2008 10:34 am

    @saqib
    Quaid and Islamic state. we really suffer from identity crisis. Islam mania has been the real limiting factor in our proress. Tell me one progressive religious nation in the world. Secular India has progressed more despite its ten times population and problems.
    May Allah help us understand the real spirit of his religion.

20. Saqib on May 7th, 2008 10:45 am

    @dr

    Nobody has had a real intention of implementing Islamic laws. It is a hoax i.e. another way to oppress people and play with peoples sentiments to achieve own (personal) goals. Be it a Mullah or a Zia-Ul-Hulk.

    /Saqib

21. NoHypocracy on May 7th, 2008 10:47 am

    @dr

    Odd the way you drag Islam (or rather its defamation) into a discussion where this was entirely unwarranted. No one made any point for or against Islam vis a vis the Quaid or in any other sense… so it merely displays that you are pushing an agenda in raising this (whether deliberately or because your prejudices blind you to what you are doing). And in raising this extraneous subject under whatever agenda, it is you here and now in your last post who is abusing the Quaid’s memory to push that agenda.

    In addition just as in many discussions you appear (whether you realise it or not) to be seeking to divert attention from the subject at hand ..PCO Judges etc .. by chasing a couple of throwaway remarks regarding GEO in a controversial manner.

22. marina on May 7th, 2008 10:48 am

    saqib - i just read your comments about pkpolitics on PTI website and also on http://www.allahsavepakistan.blogspot.com/

    our first priority should be pakistan and our religion in my view.

23. marina on May 7th, 2008 10:52 am

    hello

24. Saqib on May 7th, 2008 11:03 am

    @Marina

    I didn’t get your point. Please clarify.

    Reg. my comments about pkpolitics: I think that matter is quite old now and as you can read I think pkpolitics overall is doing a fine job.

    Btw be aware of the yokel “paindoo”. He can be described as manipulative………at best.

    /Saqib

    /Saqib

25. dr on May 7th, 2008 12:27 pm

    @hypocrat
    Odd the way you drag Islam ..
    sorry mate,you dont make sense at all. Saqib made a reference to quaid and islamic state. vey politely, Quaid could be anything but a muslim and yet he founded islamic state. This was foundation of identity crisis and the way you are showing anger and frustration is a poof of that.
    Anyway…long live Quaid.

26. dr on May 7th, 2008 12:29 pm

    @hypocrat
    and yes..carry on discussing your “judges issues”
    and yes
    oh teacher..leave the kids alone.

27. dr on May 7th, 2008 12:31 pm

    @hypocrat
    Pushin an agenda….
    LOL.
    everything that happens around us is a foreign agenda.My Allah bless you with a few neurons..you moran.

28. dr on May 7th, 2008 12:34 pm

    Although this is not my place and I dont award people with Khutna certificates but just for one time,he used to drink,eat pork,married to a parsi woman,and nobody ever saw him offering prayers.
    geo meray hum watno.

29. dr on May 7th, 2008 12:34 pm

    @gtp
    Although this is not my place and I dont award people with Khutna certificates but just for one time,he used to drink,eat pork,married to a parsi woman,and nobody ever saw him offering prayers.
    geo meray hum watno.

30. dr on May 7th, 2008 12:38 pm

    @gtp
    he was a politician and we should not give him a portfolio of wali. a muslim state was a political slogan which became popular. I think we fantacise and make ordinary humans “supers”.

31. dr on May 7th, 2008 12:41 pm

    @hyppocrat
    yar…your statement above is hinting that u are quite disturbed and should seek psychiatric hel.imagining that people around you are cospiring is not a good symptom.
    Do you ever feel that others try to steel your ideas or broadcast ideas in your mind as well?

32. dr on May 7th, 2008 12:42 pm

    @hyppocrat
    please recommend a book on quaid’s life..you seem to be very knowledged man….in brackets

33. dr on May 7th, 2008 12:48 pm

    Ok guies. because gto has convinced me by telling me that I haave skewed pictues I am changing my statement now…
    Quaid was a true muslim and offered 5 time prayers.He was a hafiz and wali.he had full command on hadees and ijtihad. He was married to a muslim lady and his daughter got married to a sheikh e hadees. He spoke urdu fluently and had full command over all other regional languages as well as Arabic.he was martyred by kuffars and his holy shrine is located in Karachi.
    I hope this makes you happy.

34. dr on May 7th, 2008 1:06 pm

    @gtp
    this is not a crieria for being muslim but thats how we imagine our leaders to be and thats exactly what I was trying to say that we should keep politicians at the place of poliicians and should not make them walis.

35. dr on May 7th, 2008 1:11 pm

    Quaid was Ismaili and there was a case in Pakistani courts as well which awarded him with khatna certificate.

36. dr on May 7th, 2008 1:15 pm

    Got sidetracked again by this same old discussion.sorry guies.

37. Adonis on May 7th, 2008 1:17 pm

    Quaid-i-Azam was born in an ismaili family but then parted ways with ismailis and Agha Khan on the issue of his sister’s wedding.

    After that he always called himself simply a muslim and his subsequent eid and jum aprayers have ben documented in both sunni and shia mosques.

38. gtp on May 7th, 2008 1:21 pm

    thanks adonis. can you cite any sources please?

39. dr on May 7th, 2008 1:21 pm

    @Adonis
    He was not shia ismaili but Fatima Jinah claimed her share of property in his life claimimg that she was….

40. dr on May 7th, 2008 1:32 pm

    @gtp
    References:

    1.Gen Ghaddar ul Hulk- I am Khaleefa .Mutala e Pakistan..class 10th edition.1979 57:21-29.

    2.Gem Busharraf- mein durta nahee hoon. Mutala e Pakistan American edition. 2002.56:22-76.

    3.Hafeez Razeelzada and Sharif haramzada -aine ka dhancha-1947-2008.

41. Adonis on May 7th, 2008 1:33 pm

    @ gtp

    Jinnah & Pakistan —– by Qutubuddin Aziz

    @ dr

    Shias and ismailis are two separate sects … Shias are followers of 12 imams ending at Imam Muhammad bin Ismail ……… for ismailis imamate continues to this day and every Agha Khan is their imam .

    Incidentally, Fatima Jinnah has described in detail Quaids life and habits in her book “My Brother” and she clearly refers to Quaid’s aversion to drinking and pork and partying. She specifically mentioned the story of Quaid refusing the advances of his land ladys daughter in london citing Islamic morals. This book was written at a time when drinking was legal in Pakistan so Fatima Jinnah had nothing to hide.

    Interestingly, those who accuse Quaid of drinking and eating pork can not quote a single instance !!!

42. dr on May 7th, 2008 1:36 pm

    @Adonis
    You are refeing their own scripts..WOW

43. dr on May 7th, 2008 1:49 pm

    @adonis
    Ahmed, Akbar S., Jinnah, Pakistan and Islamic Identity, p.200.

44. dr on May 7th, 2008 1:52 pm

    @adonis
    please see the last line of criticism on
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Ali_Jinnah#cite_note-44

45. dr on May 7th, 2008 1:55 pm

    @adonis
    he even asked his counterparts in india to preserve his house in Mumbai(Malabar Hill) because he Might have to come back…….HAHAHAHA

46. dr on May 7th, 2008 1:56 pm

    KUB JAGO GAY MEREY BHAYO

47. gtp on May 7th, 2008 2:04 pm

    @dr

    it might help if you read some books on Quaid. e.g. Stanley Wolpert.

    indeed your current reading (dr on May 7th, 2008 1:32 pm) shows in your writing.

48. Adonis on May 7th, 2008 2:11 pm

    Again, can you quote one instance? just one……..

    If you do not like Fatima Jinnah’s book, Qutbuddin Aziz in his book Jinnah & Pakistan has eloquently answered this propaganda. For further reading I would suggest, Dr. Safdar Mahmmod, Noorus Sabah Begum and Abul Hassan Isfahani. The last two were people who actually spent a lot of time with him.

    I have observed one very interesting thing. All extremists in Pakistan, whether they be secular extremists or religious extremists, are vehemently against Quaid. Religious extremists including those from Jamiat ulemai hind and Malis e Ahrar, who were in cohoots with congress, even went to the extent of calling him kafir during the freedom struggle. But the Muslims of the sub continent knew better and thats why the bigots were resoundly defeated.

49. gtp on May 7th, 2008 2:14 pm

    @adonis

    very well said.

    Quaid was Quaid because the majority of Muslims in the subcontinent loved him and voted for his party.

    This is yet another reason that the opinion of people must be respected not ridiculed.

    zuban-e-khalq ko naqqara-e-khuda samjho

50. Saqib on May 7th, 2008 2:18 pm

    @all

    I am astonished that Wikipedia is (once again) used as a reference in such important matters. In principle Wikipedia can be edited by anyone. It is as such a fine tool (I use it too), but not always trustworthy.

    I believe The Quaid also had his weaknesses just like any other human beings, and it is all right to discuss him, but in my view it should be done with respect and with reliable source material and that is certainly NOT Wikipedia!

    /Saqib

51. gtp on May 7th, 2008 2:20 pm

    @Saqib

    “I believe The Quaid also had his weaknesses just like any other human beings, and it is all right to discuss him, but in my view it should be done with respect and with reliable source material”

    Well said.

52. Saqib on May 7th, 2008 2:21 pm

    @Adonis

    The same old story i.e. Mullahs using the usual “weapon” of labeling people kafir when they run short of arguments. Disgusting. I think they also did to Allama Iqbal when he wrote Shikwah.

    /Saqib

53. gtp on May 7th, 2008 2:24 pm

    eventually they forced Iqbal to write jawab shikwah? just a joke.

54. Saqib on May 7th, 2008 2:26 pm

    @gtp

    And now the Mullahs never get tired of quoting Allama Iqbal. What a paradox.

    

    /Saqib

55. gtp on May 7th, 2008 2:29 pm

    @saqib

    that’s true. a real paradox.

    then, this paradox also applies to any group which intends to bulldoze its bigoted prescriptive opinion on all people, and cries for democracy too.

56. Adonis on May 7th, 2008 2:35 pm

    Yes. But I would say that these were jahil mullas.

    Many of the real religious scholars were with Muslim League and Pakistan Movement. Names of Maulana Shabbir Ahmed Usmani, Maulana Zafar Ahmed Ansari, Pir Jamaat Ali Shah, Pir Sahib Manki Sharif are just a few of the names that come to mind.

    Incidentally, Maulana Shabbir Ahmed Usmani was the one who separated from Jamiat Ulema i Hind (JUH) and formed Jamiat Ulema i Islam (JUI) as a protest of Hussain Ahmed Madani’s (the main deobandi leader and then president of JUH) policies of supporting congress against Muslim League. Mufti Mahmood, the father of Maulana Fazlur Rehman was also with JUH and Hussain Ahmed Madani. Its a travesty that after Maulani Usmani’s death. Mufti Mahmood occupied JUI, a party whom he had opposed tooth and nail. He and his son Fazlur Rehman are on record to have said so many time sthat creating Pakistan was a sin and they were not a part of it.

    Qazi Hussain Ahmed is also named after that Hussain Ahmed Madani as Qazi sahib’s father was a staunch deobandi supporting JUH.

57. gtp on May 7th, 2008 2:40 pm

    Deobandi movement is another paradox in Indian/Pakistan’s history. On one hand they are the most educated amongst Mullahs. On the other, they were more pro-Congress than pro-Pakistan….Btw, sectarian parties such as Sipah-Sahaba are also an off-shoot of the Deobandi school in Pakistan.

58. Saqib on May 7th, 2008 2:43 pm

    @Adonis

    Mufti Mahmood was a hypcrite of the worst kind. First he opposed the creation of Pakistan and then he moved to the very same country he had opposed.

    Btw Fazool and Altaf Hussain should be repatriated with their brethren in India.

    /Saqib

59. Adonis on May 7th, 2008 2:45 pm

    Yes.

    But although the main group of deobandis remained opposed to Pakistan, a splinter group led by Maulana Shabbir Ahmed Usmani was vehemently in favour of Pakistan.

60. Adonis on May 7th, 2008 2:47 pm

    You are right about their hypocracy. But actually Mufti Mahmood did not move from india, he was already living in D I Khan.

    But I agree that he could have moved to india if he felt that strongly about his ideas.

61. gtp on May 7th, 2008 2:50 pm

    That’s right. Allama Usmani was perhaps amongst a few exceptions.

    Fazl-ur-Rehman and Altaf Hussain….. it is an irony that these individuals represent their respective groups or communities.

    I don’t think repatriation to India is a solution. can we trust democracy to get rid of corrupt leaders, across the board?

62. dr on May 7th, 2008 3:08 pm

    @gtp
    to throw pearls before swine
    carry on baby

63. dr on May 7th, 2008 3:11 pm

    @saqib
    denial is a state of mind but it doesnot last for 60 years.About reference of wikepedia,you can access references from there just like cochrane.anyway carry on

64. gtp on May 7th, 2008 3:12 pm

    thank you, dr.

    btw where are the pearls and where is the swine?

    and yes, where is the baby? coooool babe?

65. God that failed on May 7th, 2008 3:31 pm

    @Adonis
    Suppose that Mr. Jinnah used to drink, you want to make an issue out of this now or what? That is one man being criticized even after 65 years…what about your leaders sitting in the Parliament, they don’t drink? What about your president Musharraf who never removes his glass from his head like a cheap harlot.

66. TK on May 7th, 2008 3:46 pm

    @gtp: your b!tch a$$ is lucky @dmin is deleting all my comments.. suffice it to say.. you’re in my sights! Get ready to defend your accusations in court! (and make sure you find yourself a laywer).. I have a good feeling your’re in the EU.

    @admin: if you do not disclose this hate-monger’s IP, it will be subpoenaed. Please DO NOT delete the records of his posts from your site.

    Thanks.

67. Renaissance on May 7th, 2008 3:47 pm

    @dr

    >KUB JAGO GAY MEREY BHAYO

    Iqbal said,

    Utho meree dunya k ghareeboN ko jaga do
    Kaakh-e-umara k dar-o-deewaar hila do
    .
    .
    Sultaani-e-jamhoor ka aata hai zamana
    Jo naqsh-e-kohen tum ko nazar aaye mita do

    MY only concern: “Is it Sultani-e-jamhoor or Sultani-e-Zardari/Rehman Malik”?

68. dr on May 7th, 2008 3:50 pm

    @ gtp ,Sakib, Adonis

    here are few references for my very “educated and learned” friends who are suffering from identity crisis and are in a state of denial.If you wish,I can present the text as well but I dont want to bore others. Hope you will stop this discussion and if you want I can guide you how to do literature research?please donot take it personal.

    Selected Speeches and Statements of the Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah … M. Rafique Afzal, Research Society of Pakistan …page 261.

    Ahmed, Akbar S., Jinnah, Pakistan and Islamic Identity, p.200.

    Britain: Commonwealth and Empire, 1901-1955 - Page 433
    by Paul Knaplund - 1956 - 541 pages

    Gandhi By Louis Fischer , Louis Fischer -page 150 Published 1962

    Riot - Page 107,by Shashi Tharoor

    A Lamp for India: The Story of Madame Pandit By Robert Hardy Andrews,page 164

    The Indian Economic and Social History Review By Delhi School of Economics

    This is our world By Louis Fischer-page 18

    Freedom at midnight By Larry Collins, Dominique Lapierre-page 102

    The Man who Divided India: An Insight Into Jinnah’s Leadership and Its Aftermath By Rafiq Zakaria-page29

    B??l?de?era ch?tra ?ndolanera itih?sa By Moh?mmada H?nan?na-page 90

69. dr on May 7th, 2008 3:54 pm

    @gtp

    I feel sorry for you and your petty reference because you recommended me the book by Stanley Wolpert and on page 78 he also tells that Quaid drank and ate pork.
    HAHAHAHAHA

    @all
    sorry guies, well I dont have any personal issue with Quaid but I get pissd off is people like these three who claim to be scholars by their inferior minded verses and presend fake evdences to prove a human asMaha atma which is against the spirit of our religion anyway.

70. dr on May 7th, 2008 4:05 pm

    :@gtp

    tell you what. One logic that you can give is that all Quaids drank..eg, Quaid e Awam..Bhutto
    Quaid e Tehreek..Altaf
    Qut e foj- Busharraf

71. dr on May 7th, 2008 4:06 pm

    @ gtp ,Sakib, Adonis

    here are few references for my very “educated and learned” friends who are suffering from identity crisis and are in a state of denial.If you wish,I can present the text as well but I dont want to bore others. Hope you will stop this discussion and if you want I can guide you how to do literature research?please donot take it personal.

    Selected Speeches and Statements of the Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah … M. Rafique Afzal, Research Society of Pakistan …page 261.

    Ahmed, Akbar S., Jinnah, Pakistan and Islamic Identity, p.200.

    Britain: Commonwealth and Empire, 1901-1955 - Page 433
    by Paul Knaplund - 1956 - 541 pages

    Gandhi By Louis Fischer , Louis Fischer -page 150 Published 1962

    Riot - Page 107,by Shashi Tharoor

    A Lamp for India: The Story of Madame Pandit By Robert Hardy Andrews,page 164

    The Indian Economic and Social History Review By Delhi School of Economics

    This is our world By Louis Fischer-page 18

    Freedom at midnight By Larry Collins, Dominique Lapierre-page 102

    The Man who Divided India: An Insight Into Jinnah’s Leadership and Its Aftermath By Rafiq Zakaria-page29

72. GM on May 7th, 2008 4:12 pm

    @all

    please focus on program’s topic

73. mbokhari on May 7th, 2008 4:42 pm

    @Renaissance

    Iqbal wrote something else. It got published erroneously. What he ACTUALLY said was this:

    Utho meree dunya k ghareeboN ko uTha do
    As in, Chal oye, roz ithay aa ke beh janaaN aeN!

    My sentiments exactly
    @gtp

    I guess ad_min has deleted your posts so I can’t read and comment on them. Otherwise I would have Jarur responded…..know what I mean? Wink, wink, nudge nudge

74. gtp on May 7th, 2008 5:01 pm

    a nice program by Hamid Mir. Arguments of both AA and H Pirzada were well grounded.

75. TK on May 7th, 2008 5:04 pm

    A nice cavity search on every EU airport! A nice secret service agent following you on every street. A nice hate blog and a nice death threat against nice people gets you all these good things..

    MunafiQ!!

76. gtp on May 7th, 2008 5:06 pm

    we may disagree with AA or HP’s arguments but their comments are worhty of attention nonetheless. Resorting to abusive language betrays our furstration. The best thing to do with haters is to ignore them.

77. Mulla Nafs e Zakkiya on May 7th, 2008 5:20 pm

    Saqibt
    Posts:518

    Insaf Shaheen

    12/02/2008 1:28 PM
    I would say PKpolitics is doing a good job to some extent. There is no doubt that the admin of that site seems to be affiliated with PML-N. He is maybe even paid for that job because no ordinary man can put so much effort in such a website without any proper income. That is only a guess.

    Apart from that I have been a regular visitor on that site and in one debate I asked for clarification about his affiliation with PML-N. He could only put forward further questions instead of answering my question. It was the same old rhetoric about nobody is clean and hence he doesn’t need to be clean either…..It is boring that these people cannot put forward a decent argument.

    My little debate with him resulted in that I am now on the “watch list”. All my comments await moderators approval before they are visible to other users. Before that the moderator claimed that he was pro politics and this and that..Business as usual i.e. words without any real action.

    I don’t think we should put too much effort on discussing pkpolitics. We have raised the issue and people should now be aware of how pkpolitics is run…….PML-n democratic way…..freedom of expression?

    /Saqib

78. Saqib on May 7th, 2008 5:28 pm

    @gtp

    You are getting a little bit rude. There is no point in discussing further on this issue. Btw it is not the issue in this thread either. I congratulate you for your scholarly research and the way you put forward your “findings”. I am sure you will find many people who will “listen” to you.

    Have a nice day

    /Saqib

79. Saqib on May 7th, 2008 5:28 pm

    Sorry the above post is for @dr and NOT @gtp.

    /Saqib

80. gtp on May 7th, 2008 5:30 pm

    @saqib

    ?

81. Traffic on May 7th, 2008 8:15 pm

    i find it funny when people start endless debates on whether jinnah drank alcohol or not, or whether in his heart he wanted an Islamic state or a secular one (since his speeches on the subject are contradictory at best). we as a nation are still living in the past, what with people voting people like Mr. 10% to power just because he happens to be the son-in-law of Bhutto (same case with BB), or people still arguing about what jinnah wanted, or what he did in his life. whether he ate pork or not, hes going to be accountable for it in front of his Lord, why are we debating about sins of dead men? if we must, we should debate about what the ordinary people who rallied to the call of Pakistan wanted, and for what they gave sacrifices for. anybody who says our ancestors were working for a completely secular state(on the lines of turkey) is only fooling himself. stop claiming to be the only ones to understand what jinnah wanted, all of you. it doesnt really matter what he wanted, we have to figure that out ourselves, or what he did, since he was only human and in no way perfect, he had flaws just like any of us, and we should remember him for the good that he has done and be grateful to him that he helped us in achieving a state of our own. the rest, we have to figure out ourselves, and the lawyers movement for justice is a step in the right direction. how about we never vote in corrupt decieving and betraying thieves like PPP into power again? that would also be a good place to start.

82. dr on May 7th, 2008 10:01 pm

    @traffic
    have you ever voted in general elections?please be honest.

83. Traffic on May 8th, 2008 1:24 am

    @ dr

    i wasnt old enough to participate in the 2002 elections, and this time i wasnt in pakistan. why is that important? oh yeah, when you cant reply logically then get personal. how typical of hypocrites like you.

84. maikolachi on May 8th, 2008 5:46 pm

    Whats the difference between Abdul Hafeez Pirzada and Sharifuddin Pirzada.

    1. Who was involved in writing the constitution
    2. Who was Musharraf’s lawer agains the CJ
    3. Who is the one who writes the PCO

    I didnt know they were different people.

85. muchng on May 8th, 2008 5:47 pm

    I am not sure about the difference but people say that they have at least one thing in common:

    They are both “haram-zada”

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