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Filed Under Capital Talk
May 8, 2008
May 8, 2008
Capital Talk - 8 May 2008
Raja Pervez Ashraf, Ansar Abbasi and Irfan Siddiqui with Hamid Mir in fresh episode of Capital Talk.
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Admin,
the program doesn’t start from the very beginning, I wonder if its complete.
First 1 minute is missed. I will add that in repeat transmission.
Admin
“As you know, history shows that in England conditions, some time ago, were much worse than those prevailing in India today. The Roman Catholics and the Protestants persecuted each other. Even now there are some States in existence where there are discriminations made and bars imposed against a particular class. Thank God, we are not starting in those days. We are starting in the days when there is no discrimination, no distinction between one community and another, no discrimination between one caste or creed and another. We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State”.
Muhammad Ali Jinnah’s Presidential Address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan on 11th August, 194.
I don’t know why just felt like posting this, may be today I’m emotionally agitated much more than I normally am.
This PPP is like ex PML Q. Shame on Rehamn Malik and co. Rehman malik is the guy who used to send people in America in 8-10 lacks when he was DG of FIA
Raja sahab folloowing durrani style
Ansar Abbasi and Irfan Siddiqui are simply awesome guys. They are much much maturer than our politicians.
sometime i think hamid mir rocks
Media is revolution……… to Pakistan
Hamid Mir is doing awesome programs since last couple of days - a definite improvement.
Irfan Siddique is Awesome.
Ansar abbasi is great
Pervez Ashraf is Munafiq and Badniyyat Piplia
Mian de naray wajjan ge
Imran de narray wajjan ge
@dmin
I would like you to take notice of @dr comments against the members of pkpolitics, I am usually comfortable with personal comments however the comment on “dr on May 9th, 2008 12:43 am ” violates article 6 of PkPolitics Constitution.
@dr
I had sincerely overlooked your “good-humored” comments previously however your persistent personal comments did not leave a good taste. So though you are in my ignore list but I would probably will not tolerate any personal comments in future.
I also protest the obscene attack on parents etc.. NOT COOL!
15 mins into the program and already the BS about the “shahadatain” and “azeem shaheed quaid” starts. this guy pervert ashraf is disgusting to watch, he reminds me of the previous disinformation minister ghalat baryani. i dont know how much longer the people will tolerate this P-League, they are testing the patience of the nation.
@peja
you complained to your mama admin…now what will I do?///
Oh i am wetting my paints.
It is fascinating that the Water and Power Ministry was given to a politician from the Punjab- while an effort was made to give this ministry to ANP who rules the province which has the most potential to make hydro electricity in more than 100,000 places.
To take such a step-shows the intent and actions of PPP. They are not the people who are interested in making the lives of the common man better. Because if the common man gets in better condition- then why would would they be listening to false slogan of Roti, Kapra and Makan which is simply BULLSHIT.
The sad part is that even in slogans the political parties have failed to be creative.
@dr,
You have been put in moderation temporarily. Please don’t use offending language against any other member of this site.
Admin
@admin
could you please trace the comments back and see who started it. now I only responded.anyway…
Very logical views by Raja Parvez Ashraf.
@admin
its nice to be a moderate for a change…
ansar abbasi rules…..we need people like him in politics……….i so much wanna punch 10 percent
I agree with Raja Ashraf that judiciary gave refuge to Mush in being elected twice from the same assembly BUT we never said that those judges were angels. Our point is that till the point they were ratifying establishment’s decisions, they were in office but the moment they mustered up courage to say NO, we have started blaming them.
Don’t call this guy Raja any more. He is a stigma on the forehead of Rajputs.
@shimatore
all bigrivers flow through punjab ,
The journo’s were awesome! the PML-Q guy was not believable at all!
“Musharraf kaa ehtesaab Aap kareN” … Vote Aap nay vazaarat lanay kay liyay liaa thaa?
Why are Q people still being invited to Capital talk?
President to restore Judge through ordinance what slap on PMLN and Lawyers. Now the question would Ch Iftakar would take the oath administrated by Gen Mush. IF Gen Mush illegal that I am sure the PMLN would not accept the restoration.
Jeo Jeo Ansar Abbassi Jeo aur aap kay jaissay dilair media wallay.
Ansar Abbasi is ok but Irfan Siddiqui is the dady of them all
If this govt. last for another few months which I am sure is not the case because eventually Musharaf PPP PMLQ MQM ANP FAZL will be ruling this unfortunate nation. And I can bet people at the recieving end would be none other than the MEDIA. and only MEDIA and the nation.
Irfan and Abbasi true journalists……. speak truth dont care about PPP love for President
Thanks Raja Saab, You have again proved that you are true son of Pothwar. You made Dhirti proud as our brother Raja Shahid Zafar has done before you. True sons of Pothwar are true defenders of Pakistan. For us populism is not most critical but telling the truth even it costs us our own benefits. Bravo, Raja Saab. You made me proud of being of Pothwari origin.
this is the elitist nexus working to its peak
PPP is same as PML Q (Choors), I thought that PPP might be changed party but i was wrong they are same banch of choors. They will never change because KUTE ke dum kabhi sedi nahi hoti.
Raja Parvez Ashraf to PML-Q kay bunday lugtay hain…
yay politicians hi theek nae hotay….generals ka koe qasoor aur galti nae hota….apnay faiday kay liyay yay sub kuch bhula daitay hain ….
gar gar ja kar tarlay kar kay vote mangay aur ub musharaf kay hami …..
me ne first time vote dia tha…
me to in ko dobara kabi vote nae doon ga agar judge bahal na kiyay…
“her masla apni jagha aik masla huta hai.” what this raja saying.
pplz party is not willing to restore judges ,they cant take musharaf’s anger,zardari
you failed again,
i criticised Hamid Mir after his un-impressive programmes some time ago….but he is back to his old self now so i retract my earlier criticism….Excellent programme with HM back in attacking mode
Abbassi and Irfan ….. difficult to say who is more lethal…they both seem to better than each other!!
PPP guy is absolute waste of time…he is lying in front of the camera and doesnt feel ashamed (eg AZ is more popular now than he was before just to counter Abbasssi’s comment)………….agree as number of comments above that P has replaced Q in all respects…. including being a B team of Mush
Some of Perves Ashraf comments are as ugly as he himself……..i.e blaming the deposed judges for keeping Mush in power?? no offense but is it something to do with the name Pervez? Perves Mush, Perves Ilahi and now Perves Ashraf!
Long live Hamid Mir, Abbassi and Irfan….one of the best programmes i’ve ever seen
The PPPML-Q short circuit politician Raja Pervez Ashraf Elahi was disgusting. Slowly we have got a quite a clear picture about the judiciary. In this CT the PPPML-Q guy didn’t provide a illusion. They are not going to undo coconut-Peji’s “shabkhoon”. What a miserable performance by these politicians- the servant of the people, elected by the people for the people……eeehhh, sorry I got carried away
It is more like this. The servants of coconut GHQ, elected by the people to service the GHQ……….b00tl!ckers. To heII with the wishes of the “awaam”.
/Saqib
@Malek
I like both Irfan Siddiqui and Ansar Abbasi, but IMO Irfan Siddiqui was the best person to put forward the real case i.e. it is not a person specific proces the people want (reinstatement of judges). What we want is to undo Macharraf’s “shabkhoon” which was ILLEGAL by all means.
I have also (like you) noticed that HM has been doing quite a good job on many occasions. He is getting as bold as he used to be
Well done HM!
/Saqib
@kinnare, Jawad Raja, and God that Failed
i agree.
Ansar Abbasi is most toxic in his venom against PPP, Bhuttos, and Zardari.
The only other person who competes in munafiqat with Ansar Abbasi is Mullah Munawar Hassan of Jamaat Islami (and yes, aslo Muhammad Ali Durrani).
completing @saqb’s analysis
-Raja Pervez MAsharraf Ilahi
-PPPMLQM
they are all the same just different initials!
Dear Pakistani brothers and sisters,
Nothing will change until you people do not come out, If current govt doesn’t restore judiciary then please come out on roads in majority and then see what will happen. End of the day, people of Pakistan are real power……………
Present government is same way as they have done in the past. They got only promises, as all the previous rulers did. Empty promises of “roti, kapra aur makaan” and they never delivered in their 5 years (papa Butto), 3years (baby Butto or 2years (baby Bhotto) rules including nawaz, and musharraf times. We haven’t seen anything that, they have done noticeable for the common people.
Hamid Mir is a jyala sahafi who is not sincere with judges cause.
Mir has now taken up his full flight and his words are completely matching with the emotion of common man.PPP ministers are forgetting that people are not in mood of giving them any concessions over the deadbody of benazir.They are trying to confuse the nation with the matter of judiciary and other national problems.The problems of power, flour and water are after affects of worst mangement of Mush and shaukat and killing of judiciary is actually survival of dictator culture.So indirectly PPP group is trying their best to hide all crimes of mush govt under blanket of confusion and trying to please the people by showing them new packing of democracy.They really think we are nation of fools and cools.
It is stunning to see how PPP has transformed.
The people (like Raja Pervez Ashraf, Farzana Raja, Qamar Qiar) who were shouting in lawyers movement when it kicked off after 9th March are now saying Iftikhar Ch. is not a good guy.
If CJ was not liked by them then why did they waving their flays there, perhaps to have better position to deal with Mush on NRO.
We saw little enthusiasm from PPP after NRO got signed and almost zero during election and negative right now ——– disgusting politics of vested interests
Someone should tell them the path they have chosen goes to a deep well full of snakes. It might suit to Zardari the Snake but not to PPP activists.
Hamid Mir has been criticized recently by many because of his pro PPP stance and opposition to judicial cause.However he is changing it because you cannot run a commercial programme against the wishes and aspirations of public.
Every passing day is exposing PPP and Zardai.
I had developed a soft corner for PPP and zardari in last 2-3 months.
Alas. I was wrong. This group of looters is not going to change.
Wait for just 2 months, just 2 months, and they will turn their guns against media as well.
Some PPP jiyalas in this forum still support PPP, AZ etc. I salute your courage as well as blindness.
aoa
raja says that judges gave safe exit after 20 July when hearing first case on mush but ppp also helped the dictator by not handing in your resignations. how conveniently you have forgotten this.
Alhamdollillah!.. BBBURP!!! PHURPPP!! Subhaanaall-BHURP-aah Alhamdolillah! ;
Irfan BHURPT Siddiqui.. bhurrrp Alhamdolillah! is a BHURP-ad person! maybe a Gay?
Subhanallah! mashallah! Alhamdo-lil-lil-lil-aaaaaaaaaah!! Bhurrrrp! Subhaanaaalllah! Bhurrp.. bahut SaQeeel murGh thaa! Bhurrrp!
yahooooooodi saaaaaaazish! BHURRRP!
Mashaalllaaah! Meray Bhaio.. Meri tarf BHURRRP dekho! … maiN kitnaa BHURRP… Alhamdolillllllllaaaaaaahhh!… Samajhdar aur deendaar hoooN.. Zara mehrab ko dekhoo BHURRRPPP!… Alhamdollilllaaaaaa! MaiN bahut baRa namaazi hooN mashaalllahhhhhh!
also, good program HM!
PPPMLQ guy: “Musharaf ka Ehtesab Aap (media) karaeN”
HOONK! HOOONK!
“Beghairati LEVEL Critical! — Credibility MELTDOWN IMMINENT! … VACATE PARLIAMENT!”
HOONK HOONK!
Waste of time to watch pipliaz.
Tthey adopted same defending line of Q league for Mush
I never understood PPP(President Pervaiz part) politics. Never come up with clear policy. when two parties were signing COD. PPP was negotiating with dictator. while COD clearly says that no one will talk to dictator. now they have alliance with Pml N and at the same time close link with dictator. Rehman Malik is key charactor of this politics.
PPP Politics is Like this:
”
A little boy goes to his dad and asks, ‘What is politics?’
Dad says, ‘Well son, let me try to explain it this way: I’m the breadwinner of the family, so let’s call me capitalism. Your Mom, she’s the administrator of the money, so we’ll call her the Government. We’re here to take care of your needs, so we’ll call you the people. The nanny, we’ll consider her the Working Class. And your baby brother, we’ll call him the Future. Now, think about that and see if that makes sense,’
So the little boy goes off to bed thinking about what dad had said. Later that night, he hears his baby brother crying, so he gets up to check on him. He finds that the baby has severely soiled his diaper. So the little boy goes to his parents’ room and finds his mother sound asleep. Not wanting to wake her, he goes to the nanny’s room. Finding the door locked, he peeks in the keyhole and sees his father in bed with the nanny. He gives up and goes back to bed.
The next morning, the little boy says to his father, ‘Dad, I think I Understand the concept of politics now.’ The father says, ‘Good son, tell me in your own words what you think politics is all about.’ The little boy replies, ‘Well, while Capitalism is screwing the Working Class, the Government is sound asleep, the People are being ignored and the Future is in deep shit.’
“shaheedon ki party”
BUT
characterisitcs:
“harkatain munafiqon wali”
knw wt i m talkin about………………shhhhhhhhhhhh!
don’t say a word otherwise you will be subverting the system and will be put in a list of system subverters……
already that list is goin on n on…..just wait until hamid mir n NJ will cry rivers again………..
musharaf nay azadi di,cj iftikhar nay wapas li,phir zardari nay wapas ki….
so the culprit is cj iftikhar thats wt ppp tryin to say now a days…..
AA was doumbfounded when RPA asked him about the why the judges allowed mush to contest the election………he had no answer and wobbled…and finally got frustrated…and said gov. will not restore judges….clear sight of frustration, anger…that finally culminated in unprofessional accusition…..gov. is making list of 5 journalist……did not provide a single proof…RPA…raised a good point..you have said it without a proof……..and it is an irresponsible statement….
well done— RPA….people like AA think they can dictate the gov. their terms by saying whatever they want to say…am glad the gov. is standing up to them by letteing them talk..talk…talk..talk….
@paf123
by AA you ansar abassi…and NOT aitezaz ahsan..right??
@ aftab
so mean to say…so what judges did that…ppp did the same…which means both ppp and judges helped mush……
@ kafka8
right….
@Paf123
It seems like PPP will not get out of their short circuit talk.
This is not about reinstating individuals. This is about undoing Macharraf’s ILLEGAL acts.
/Saqib
@ Saqib
could you please analyze the whole situation and suggest a solution that is legally and constitutionally acceptable……the issue is not that PPP does not want to do it….the issue is how it can be done…whereby the whole thing is not used by Mush to subvert democracy…….
Please don’t say that bring IMC back and he will give support to democracy…….my friend his recent record suggest otherwise………he gave mush the room after july 20…I wish, SC had decided that Mush is not eligible to contest the election….just imagine how different the things would have been…..Mush would have been out of luck..and power…but then again….it is not an ideal world….right??
@paf123
wonder why mosh needed to declare martial law on nov 3…if the judges had given his Prezidency..an absolute clean chit. wait..were they not about to issue a decision against him? nahh…i am probably wrong
@ kafka8
“were they not about to issue a decision”…..that is the thing..they gave him the valuable time to plan a counter move…….i think the fatal mistake mistake was give the interim order he is elgible to take part in the election…I WISH…..if they had given an interim order that…He is NOT eligible to take part in the election and election will be held after the final decision of the court……………..then Mush would have been in a totally different position…………..NO eligible…..not able to hold election until decision from the court……
another thing “were they not about to issue a decision against him?”….who knows….what they were going to do….it is just a speculation…or a conclusion based on the fact that mush declared emergency based on the fear of getting an adverse decsion…but “fear” of getting a decision is equal to the “decision” itself…I wish there was a decision at that time….
anyhow…..I think a way should be found to restore the judges…..it is more of a symbolic value…..
typo –”but “fear” of getting a decision isNOT equal to the “decision”
@paf123
whats different between what you are saying and what ppp-zardaro ministers are spinning on air??
hmmm….
@Paf123
You didn’t read my reply to you. This is not about individuals i.e. IMC etc. This is about undoing an ILLEGAL act by a dictator in uniform. To undo that act we don’t need 2/3 majority in parliament. If we seek 2/3 majority we will be accepting his ILLEGAL act as a LEGAL act.
/Saqib
@Paf123
You see when you say
It is exactly like saying why AZ just does not throw out Musharraf right now. Well they are fighting the battle and they know when to do the action. CJ and judges allowed him to take part in elections but then did not scumb to establishment pressure which forced establishment to take the drastic step. I agree there were chances that the decision may have been a “compromised” decision but since they did not agree on a compromised solution hence CJ and judges stood the ground.
AZ is now in the same shoes as CJ was on 20th July , AZ does not want to play a quick battle like CJ for obvious reasons. AZ is not a chief justice of a court , he is “heading” the party that “rules” the country , he would never want to just give the chance away back to establishment by playing a quick battle, he needs a time but wants to keep the pressure up.
Can’t help jump in here for a sec:
I also think they shouldn’t have given him NO QUARTER (I’m not endorsing paf123’s views btw) but do agree with that much exactly.
Now, does that mean they are somehow ‘guilty’ and a ‘party to the crime of Nov 3′.. NO! Because they gave a decision to the best of their ability… and it was within their constitutional mandate to give such a decision.
What moshe did on nov 3 was a BREACH of the constituion. Undoing a wrong should not require the same procedure that is used for ‘normal business’.
This is what I don’t understand. Why the he!! are people like Justice Tariq & Aitzaz Ahsan insisting on 209? That clause is to be used for Judges appointed Lawfully .. You can’t say they have to be reviewed by a panel even if the ’source action’ itself is ILLEGAL!
To undo an illegal act, it just need to be ‘legally’ declared “illegal” and that’s it! And that should be the ‘legal opinion’… I think the politico’s are just muddying the water and the legalists are just not standing their ground (and I blame Aitezaz Ahsan’s goddamned political ambition for this caving in) .. he wants to be law minister or something.. I dunno…
The problem right now is not the restoration of the judiciary, it should be the “legality of the actons of Nov 3rd”… if the Parliament does not indemnify the actions of Nov 3, then everthing stands nullified.
I think this is where the Lawyers have not framed the issue properly and let the Qutta’s frame it in a context which has put the Lawyers in this predicament. They should have stressed on the legality vs. Illegality of the Emergency-Plus itslef .. and that being nullified would have nullified everything else.
This is exactly what makes Zardari a villain in my eyes.. Him trying to give immunity to the second PCO (that was NOT part of the fokking NRO! but this pu$$y has accepted it as such).. what a joke…
@ Saqib
Just think through….illegal act has been given a “legal” cover by the SC of Pakistan’s decision (Dogar court has given a decision–like it or not it is a decision of SC and has the same legal value as the decision of any other SC)……are you saying that PM through an executive order suspend or revert the judgment of SC………….
just think about the future consequences of this issue……..how fatal it could be…if we accept this principal that a PM can suspend a decison of SC by an executive order………….and how ridiculous it could be for our legal system if allow this to happen……..so my friend….over simplification of issues can have a “feel good” factor but may not provide the correct solution of the problem…..thoughts on the issue raised above…
@Saqib
The “contesting” of “COAS” as “President” of Pakistan was as “ILLEGAL” as the “PCO of 3rd November” , I wrote about AA’s argument in “DUAL OFFICE” case, there was no two questions about the illegality of COAS running for the elections in 2007 , and the matter could have easily been decided in a single hearing and that is what AA asked the court to do on the very first day. But you know the case was heard twice and it dragged on for over 3 months without any decision. It was also obvious that “allowing the election comission to hold the election and do not issue the notification” , was also totally “ILLEGAL” and was contested by Aitzaz Ahsan who asked the court not to issue such an order.
But as I said that was not possible.
As for as the 2/3rd majority question is concerned I can tell you that is the real bone of contention between the establishment and political forces, I am not very sure how much establishment is opposed to the restoration of judiciary but my guess is that they are willing to live with the restoration of those judges. The real issue is that how to settle the issue of “PCO of 3rd November” , now you know even the parliament of 85 and 2002 did not give in easily for validating the actions of dictator. So how can this parliament will give in. And since NS is standing his ground that affectively means that establishment will not have a 2/3rd majority to get what they want.
@ kafka8
there is no spin..just raised one legal issue above……if you want to call it a “spin”…pls. go right ahead…….any reasonable person would atleast try to see and resolve all the underlying issues/mess that was carefully crafted by Mush…….this is what I am saying…something wrong with this approach….
The other option is to have “Akaal nahi tee mujan e mujaan” approach………just keep on repeating the same thing again and again..without thinking it through….am sorry…am not for this appraoch…
@paf123
i dont dispute that IMC / judiciary had a chance…to nip it in the bud…i agree with u there..but how is Nov 3…ok??
(if i am not mistaken IMC was not on the bench that said yes to Mosh running for prez??..and 5 or 6 of the pre-nov 3 judiciary did take oath again..?? )
Paf123: “Dogar court has given a decision–like it or not it is a decision of SC and has the same legal value as the decision of any other SC”
sorry.. big GAPING HOLE in the logic here.
A decision is legal if the issuing authority is legal. The Dogar court is at best ‘de facto’ .
The reason the decision of the Taliban Court is not legally binding in Pakistan is because it is “illegitimate court”
So is the Dogar court. It is NOT “any other SC” because that implies this dogar court is ‘legal’ and nothing could be further from the truth. It is a court set up by a usurper as part of a conspiracy (alleged at this point) and therefore it is not LEGITMATE!
@ pejamistri
I agree with your analysis…..but I am just pointing out at a opportunity…that judges had an opportunity to go for a “Kill” but they did not….I don’t believe “pro-democracy” powers have the power right now to go for the “Kill”….my point is to wait for it…rather than accusing them of colllusion especially by the die hard supporter of judiciary…because judges could be accused of the collusion with establishedment for not going for the “Kill” at the appropriate time..no need to start a blame game…..look at the bigger cause….strenghthen institutions……
The only thing holding the legitimacy of this court together is “the gun”… So basically the rule of law has been broken down at the point of a gun, and this givels some legal cover to an actual armed struggle against a group of userpers who have taken control of the machinery of state supposed to be used for normal business and they are using it for “Illegal Activities”.
If your chowkidar evicts you from your house because he has the gun, it doesn’t mean your ‘legal claim’ has vanished. Even if the judge, thanedar, police officer and the local wadero (USA) is on his side.
He is STILL ILLEGAL. It is a question of legitimacy and legality. Moshe’s actions are illegal. Period.
@pejamistri:
Bingo!
And I also think that the lawyers should have framed the ‘restoration’ within the context of the legality of the ‘PCO of Nov 3′ .. It doesn’t matter how long it takes to restore the pre Nov3 judges as long as the Userper and his accomplice Black-Judges are sent to their ‘kaifar-e-kirdaar’.
I wish they had not fallen for this 30 day dramay baazi which has essentially framed the debate according to the wishes of the Americans and their proxies in pakistan.
@ TK
My friend no gaping hole….you may call it a ‘de facto’ court and argue that it is not legal court…but the constitutional history of Pakistan (for that matter world) is full of decisions that were given by “de facto” courts….but the fact of the matter is that “de facto” SC court is in fact the “de jure” court as well….because it is going to be one who is going to decide “what is de facto and de jure”………………so simply…it may be good “philosophical” argument and has lot of merit in jurisprudence..but Dogar court is the ‘de jure’ court…….and one of the argument is that they took oath under 1973 constitution…..law of the land…..
again…what I am saying is that Mush and his cronies carefully wove this legal mess…..
@Saqib
In fact “Dual Office Case” was a very big ask , I give you a better example CJ IMC heard the “missing person” case for almost an year , I had been following that case since january 2007 , and in several hearings (in fact 2 hearings I remember) , IMC said to the secratery interior and Attorney General that they should not force him to issue orders for “DG ISI and DG MI” to appear before the courte. Well I hope you will understand what this statement means. IMC could never issue the orders to just ask DG ISI and DG MI to appear in his court. This in no way means that IMC wan not sincere in missing person case or he was a coward or he had done a deal with establishment. But this is how it was.
People although don’t agree with me , however I consider IMC as good as Nawaz Sharif or Benazir or Asif Zardari. NS was no less than IMC when he refused to sign the papers on the night of 12th October 1999, or BB was no less than IMC when she agrees upon NRO (as IMC did not get the DG ISI/MI to appear before him) , Asif Zardari was no less than NS when he preferred staying in “Airconditioned room of Hospital” for five years.
@ TK
let me say one thing…there is two aspects of this situation….the a) political aspect b. legal aspect………you can’t mix the two………………….for a simple reason………..political slogan mongering does not provide answers for the underlying legal and constitutional issues presented by this messy situation……..
@Paf123: I don’t know law that much, but common sense tells me that a court cannot give a decision on itself (Basic Rule of Conflict of Interest arises).
Also, do you find it ironic that you are dismissing my argument as “legalistic and therefore not applicable to the legality of a supreme court” ?
The current supreme court is established not on the basis of law, but on the point of a gun. That is the basic definition of Revolution. We rebel against that illegal revolution of the userpers!
@Paf123: “…there is two aspects of this situation…”
I tend to agree with you, and my opinion is that it is because our so called ‘democratic forces’ or some leaders thereof are still not willing to believe in the supremacy of law, common sense and common decency. Since they DO NOT believe in the supremacy of the constitution and the law, they want to essentially perpetuate the legal mess created by 3 men of dubious intelligence, questionable character and myopic vision.
We are (or maybe) FIKKED!
@ TK
“Basic Rule of Conflict of Interest” does not apply to courts…especially the courts that are created after PCOs or by the dictators…..what do you think they are doing..when the legitmize PCOs or dictatorships…..they are actually legitmizing their existence along with it…………
there is whole lot of material in constitutional law on this issue….in fact the pakistani legal history is rife with these types of “ugly” decisions…but one thing is for sure…there is enough in the jurisprudence/constitutional law for them to make these decisions…..and our courts have unfortunately done it several time without any remorse…….and has enough in our law to claw back to their legal/binding decisions….
You wrote
“The current supreme court is established not on the basis of law, but on the point of a gun. That is the basic definition of Revolution. We rebel against that illegal revolution of the userpers!”
again a good political slogan and everyone will agree with it..but it does not provide you with legal/consititutional solution to the problem…….
@Paf123: seriously, frequency does not determine legitimacy.
Just because you raped a woman one thousand times against her will and around time 990 she didn’t protest as much doesn’t mean you didn’t rape her or that it established “some kind of precedent’
It just means the perpetrator’s a psycho! And in this example the perpetrator is the Army.
“they are actually legitmizing their existence along with it…………”
Actually, If I’m not mistaken, this is first such instance. Also, just because it’s been happening before, it doesn’t make it legitimate or legal. see above.
Okay so when I gave a waterproof legal argument, you said it wasn’t political enough,, when I make a political statement,,, it’s not legal enough.
I see where this conversation is headed. Thank You! Drive Thru!
@ TK
don’t want to play semantics on a legal issue and to cut the chase….just think…..how many time dictatorship was legitimized……it was declared legal by the courts…..you can make a political argument (which you incidently are) that it was illegal….but strictly legally speaking that was legitmized/legalized……and all the acts were deemed legal (not politically legal…but legally/constitutionally legal….using this uncommon language to make it plenty clear)
I never said that it was not political enough….what I said was that you can’t challange the legitmacy of legal argument by making a politcal argument………this is what you are doing……. the exact situation in case of dictatatorships….dictatorships are always held politically illegal (by politcal workers etc)…but once they get legitmacy from the courts….dictatorships becomes legal……(still remaining politically illegitimate)……
Unfortunately, in the judges issues….the situation is that we have to find a “legal” solution to get the judges restored…..Political decision has been made the mush act was illegal and judges must be restored…now the quesiion how it can be done within the parameter of constitution….let me clarify if you don’t do it within the parameters of constitiion then you are doing exactly what mush did…something unconstitutional….Therefore, I do not agree with this position which some poeple call a “brave” position….judges were thrown out though an illegal act then why should we look at the law to bring them back…the primiary reason for doing that….if you don’t look at the law in bringing them back…you will be doing what mush did…..
I think…I have made myself plenty clear on this issue and it is my last post on the issue…..
@Paf123
That’s what all the political and legal pandits have been trying to do in the loooong meetings. At the moment there are several solutions floating but there is no one unviersily agreed solution. However the extreme solutions are politically influenced.
But the good news is that there is one solution which is “by-default” agreed by everyone. That solution is the current situation. At the moment we are in a quasi-legal defacto state. Althogh the current dograh court is the de-facto supreme court and the actions on or after the 3rd November have quasi-legal status , but they need a final legitimization by the assembly. Now regardless of whatever is happening in the political sphere , establishment’s first preference is to get these action legalized by the assembly which turns out to be an impossible task. Add to this the open question of deposed judges you can imagine what nightmares establishment is having these days.
I can not ignore the “elections postponement” saga as a little prank , I feel that it is becoming imperative for the establishment to have a new election ASAP.
@Paf123: I’m not sure about ‘making your self plenty clear’ but I think you’ve gone in ‘plenty circles’
so let’s just say we don’t talk about it for a while eh? brother?
cheers dude!
@peja: I agree with you on their real “dilemma” ..but how are they going to get out of it?
I’m perplexed because I think your “khuh and samandar” analogy is correct.. even if they ‘reboot’ the process, this sh!t’s still gonna boot back into Linux…
They destroyed their only copy of XP! hahaha!
@TK
They won’t , politicians are too smart this time. In fact I think even if they have new elections it won’t bring any good to establishment. The open question of deposed judges will keep them haunting. As a matter of fact I am foreseeing a total collapse of the dograh and associated courts , Sind high court is having issues these days , there are some unreported issues in Peshawar High Courts. And there might be some surprises from the dograh court itself.
Irfan Siddique is simply great.
Ansar Abbasi as usual speaks a common man’s language.
Raja Asharaf is Zardari’s chamcha and an idiot.
Mr. Minister we also know like you that, food is big problem around the world, “tum kiss merz ki dawa ho” . Atleast you show your program to the public and the media, that how you will resolve the food problem? And when? Where abouts of your program. Atleast show false figures, locations as most of you have done in the past, so people could have check on you!!!
After ripping off so many times, you think people will trust you easily??? Mr. Minister you have to gain the trust of the nation. Nation can’t afford any more “Daaku”
God save the nation from these crooks
THA INTIZAAR HAMAIN JIS KA YE WOH SAHAR TOU NAHI.