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May 14, 2008
May 14, 2008
Black Sheep to be Governor Punjab
Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) has offered Salman Taseer to be Governor of Punjab, Geo TV reports. Salman Taseer, who is a close aide of Musharraf, is a former Minister from the recent Caretaker Government.
It is interesting to note that PPP has selected the governor who is both Pro-Musharraf and Pro-PPP, will give uncomfortable signals of PMLN led Punjab government.
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wat else u want from pppp,nawaz should act now and be brave to call on pervaiz elahi to save punjab government.The chattas and watoos are ready to hijack pmlq from chaudrys and to help ppp to rule punjab as they did in 1993.nazeer naji also mentioned about nawaz joining with pervaiz illahi as he is challenging musshraf too.I think chaudrys has the support of atleast 25 to 30 mps in punjab rest will go with forward block and with chattas,thats wat pmln wants if ppp join hands with hamid nasir chatta and manzoor watoo.The plan is ready to kick out pmln from punjab
Devil replaces devil.
I see a kind of a move within PPP soon by people who have been with ZAB and BB to save their party from AZ and Co.
I don’t see any breakups on PPP. Question is are Jiyalas now ready to leave PPP and ready to work with NS, who seems to be on a moral high ground.
@TK & @PejaMistri
Man you guys were dead wrong with your assumption of establishment being in retreat. Seems like establishment won the election again.
Khalid Maqbool is better than Salman Taseer…but this will nail the coffin of PPP in Punjab
Video added.
I agree, that establisment won. I am the Voter for PPP, but with Zardai Diplomacy and Ghadari, i have decided to reconsider for my right of Vote for Nawaz Sharief.
And Mr ardari should remember, that BIBI is no more ALIVE to get the party WIN next time in Election.
I think he is gone overconfident.
Khuda isaye Hadyat dae.
wat else u want from pppp,nawaz should act now and be brave to call on pervaiz elahi to save punjab government.The chattas and watoos are ready to hijack pmlq from chaudrys and to help ppp to rule punjab as they did in 1993.nazeer naji also mentioned about nawaz joining with pervaiz illahi as he is challenging musshraf too.I think chaudrys has the support of atleast 25 to 30 mps in punjab rest will go with forward block and with chattas,thats wat pmln wants if ppp join hands with hamid nasir chatta and manzoor watoo.The plan is ready to kick out pmln from punjab
ASMA IQBAL - A Plus!!! Will watch again!!
Punjab’s ppp mpa met Zardari and complained and whined about PMLn’s CM
Now i see PML-N and PML-Q “chaudaries bros” alliance in future and they will merge into one party and will sweep Punjab as well Baluchistan in coming up elections in 8-14 months.
PPP and N league’s allaince was unnatural from the onset, now this actions by Zardari will further create problems from N League and push them against the wall ,its high time Nawaz League should think of using/breaking Q leagues forward/backward blocks for its own good.. if they(Mush/ppp) can use Q league then why not N League, they should also start playing ball with Q league(Divided Q league will be good for N league)
This is EXACTLY WHY we need our so called “democratic” parties run by a grass roots democratic process.
People like Zardari can hijack the party and the wishes of the people! Unfortunately the same risks exist in PML-N and PTI etc.
WE NEED INTERNAL DEMOCRACY NOW!!!
as waqar sarwar said PPP does not stand a chance against waqar sarwar Muslim League, maybe i am wishing too much but Nawaz’s alliance with ppp was an unnatural one from onset while N league taking back Q league into its fold will be acceptable to voters
@tk
i agree brother
Well the whole nation will have to pay because of NRO drama. B. Nazir and Zerdari cases were finished under a deal ON A WORKING RELATION BETWEEN GEN PERVEZ AND PPPP under the US influence.
@bayazid
“BIBI is no more ALIVE to get the party WIN next time in Election.”
Don’t be so sure of PPP-Q’s defeat next election.
I can see Bilawal in front of the mirror with his head wrapped in a Dupatta and practicing speaking like BB:
“Hamaara media trial hoaey haiN. Kangaroo Court se saza dilwaye haiN. Lekin ham phir bhi WinnaiN gey, Ham kabhi nahi LoosaiN gey, kabhi nahi LoosaiN gey!!!”
*PPP does not stand a chance against merged Muslim League*
PPP’s Salman Taseer is close to Mush and if i am not mistaken he was part of interim setup after Mush’s 12 OCT99 coup as well along with jawaid Jabbar and others?
@mbokhari: hahaha :))
and was part of the handpicked caretaker setup pre 18 feb
PMLN should ally itself with PMLQ at least not with the chaudries,several PMLN men have suffered under them,yet they remained steadfast.its like pco judges and the deposed judges,you cannot put the two in the same category.Having said that,a merged PML will not only sweep Punjab and Balochistan.But also Sindh and NWFP.If you add up the votes obtained by all the leagues in this election.15 million votes for the muslim leagues,5 million more than PPP
real litmus test will be verdict about Sharif’s eligibility to contest elections tommorow , as it will show the tone of PPP and if Mush is still pulling the strings, although the probability is quite high that it’ll be rejected as NS’s lawyer today explained in bolta pakistan that all the objections filed in different seats were printed and drafted on same computer with same grammatical mistakes (hinting towards Q league or President House)
offcourse N league should take Q league into its fold after they admit their mistake and apologize to Muslim League voters and public
@TK
I once said asking for internal democracy in political parties is like asking pagans of Makkah to perform Hajj when Kaa’ba is full of idols.
, neither we have reached the higer level of evolution to choose primaries and secondaries to elect the candidate for president.
We are going through the evolutionary process of democratization of society , at the moment we are cleaning kaa’ba from idols , we are not selecting the “khalifa” to rule over “islamic imarah”
….
BTW I am tempted to ask this question although I hate to do so as this is perhaps the most loathsome act by me to incite any kind of bias against my most respected leader. but you see I am just a human (specially when I assume a human form :)) .. so here is my question.
Did you see Aitzaz Ahsan sitting in the first row of the federal council meeting of PPP?
..
NRO is playing a great role …..
Justice delayed is justice denied …
Isnt it the start of the dirty Politics by PPP ?
Baghal mein churee aur moonh per raar raam
i would like to see Sindh’s governor replaced as well..
@TK.
What do you want to say ? are you askign us that have we seen him sitting in the front row
or
Do we see him sitting in front line (in future )?
I think the goal should be to turn this (now) self-protecting conflict over the restoration of the judiciary into an actual ideological divide over the role of Islam in legal, political and cultural affairs of the country. Pakistanis want representation on both sides of the spectrum. As someone mentioned already the PPP and the PML are not natural (ideological) allies. It’s only this constitutional-political wrangling that gives them the veneer of solidarity. Let the lawyers do their work now, let them run their movement. If there’s any good to come from the PPP-PML split I think it could be the turn towards a more ideologically oriented politics, with clear distinctions between those who support secular Muslim nationalism and those who don’t.
@Peja,
What happened to yout theory about “Establishment on the backfoot”? Actually, it is more like, democray having no feet left.
I would love to hear/see comments from those diehard jiyalas on this move from their beloved leader, Zardari the fokking snake.
@peja
Maybe what you say is right, but historical evolution happened differently….The classical evolution of democracy has occured at 3 periods in history, ancient Greek city states, Renaissance Italian City states and medieval/early modern England.
Our circumstances are similar to the ones during early modern England. The evolution of British democracy on a grassroots level starts with the election processes in trade guilds, like the Carpenters’ Guild, the Stonemasons’ Guild and so forth. Across the class divide, the political parties evolved AFTER the basic democratic system was in place. This was possible ONLY because elections/democracy/equality had become the primary organizing principle of their societies through the Guild democracy and City State democracies.
Political parties need to be democratized within themselves before a stable democratic order can come about. As it is, all the unelected, feudal lord, party leaders in all parties have brothers in the army and civil services. The organizing principal of all these “organizations” is FEUDAL, vertical and top-down.
Only a horizontal decision-making system with pancake management structure can be stable.
This is what we calla real mess and its just a begining. Ibtadai Ishq Hai Rota hai Kia Aagay Aagay dekhye hota hai kia.
@mbokhari
My objection against all such arguments are based on my biased view of the things. I consider all such arguments against the political parties based on establishment’s well thought out plan to malign the political leaders and parties in order to create confusion amongst the public.
I also disagree with your assertion that “Political parties need to be democratized within themselves before a stable democratic order can come about” , as there are several practicing democracies in the world where political parties don’t have internal democracy.
Finally let me also add that one of the most difficult thing in “any” political party (I am talking about the political party in western democracies) is to have a “undisputed” leader , and for this they go through the internal democracy to choose the leader that is acceptable to everyone within the party. Luckily in Pakistan (and for that matter several other countries) a political party leader is choosen by default , tell me if NS , IK or BB hold an election in their party can their party elect anyone else the answer is big NO .
@peja:
First I will address the issue at hand, and then I’ll RANT a little ;D
I think your analogy breaks down. Asking for internal democracy is more like NEGATING ALL OTHER GODS FIRST, BEFORE CLAIMING ALLAH IS THE ONE GOD WHO IS YOUR LORD.
La before Illaa !!
You implement democracy within you, before you implement in the society. You become Muslim first, before you run around telling others to become Muslims. Can you imagine how ridiculous it would sound if the Muslims went around to Medina and invited them to become Muslims, who incidentally did become Muslims, and then the so called “Muslims” ran off to worship Lat/Manat/Uzza ???
Do you see the absurdity of the situation? You don’t fight for a cause unless YOU LIVE THAT CAUSE!
So that is why your analogy is not only INCORRECT, it is Dangerous because as usual in the outer innocuous shell, it basically supports another tenet of the Establishment thinking .. who incidentally benefit immensely from Political Parties revolving around personalities and not around the principle of Democracy and the cause and ideology itself.
[RANT]
I was gonna say something really snarky, but I think your’e heart is in the right place. Even though I also think that you are having serious issues identifying things for what they are. You tend to mistake Zardari & Rehman Malik & Hussain Haqqani for “Democratic Forces” even though you talk about “Political Forces” being better than “The Establishment” but in your own terminology, the definitions and roles are reversed.
You say Political Forces, but you mean Creeps like the current unelected Tola on top of PPP (even the jiyala’h are pissed at his latest antics.. I know this because I’m related by blood to many of these jiyalas)
You say “Democratic Forces” bu you actually mean “Establishment” for all intents and purposes.. You say “Up”, but you’re thinking “Down” (except you don’t tell anyone else that by UP you actually mean DOWN) .. You say “on the offensive”.. but the reality is “on their fuqqen faces TEETH FIRST!”
The sum total cumulative result of all these seemingly pro-democracy yet actually pro-establishment utterances is that it serves to lull people into a false sense of security. Exactly what Zardari and the Establishment wanted (as it turns out from the recent turn of events)
So.. when using popular terms please let the new kids know how _you_ define these terms because the definitions you arbitrarily assume are sometimes diametrically opposed to the common usage and to not specify that is just to invite confusion and ambiguity– (I wouldn’t say dis-ingenuous because I know you mean well)
Salaman Taseer was a PPP minister and he just came back like a lot of pro musharaf from Q-League have already joined N-League.
I do not know why S-Taseer was labeld as Black Sheep.
Why this can not be translated as Musharaf Goevrnor is being kicked out.
Regards,
Munir
Alliance with PML Q is not a good idea. They are Lotas.
Taseer is a failed businessman. He got bought out by Arabs. Why does he wear sunglasses all the time?
He is perfect marriage of PPP and establishment.
Taseer also fathered an illegitimate child with an Indian Sikh woman.
The boy is now a man: Aatish Taseer.
@peja:
Not all criticisms are to benefit the ‘establishment’ (whatever that means). Sometimes there is genuine constructive criticsism and I consider mine in that category and common sense and reasoning should show that it is indeed done with good intentions (I know you don’t suspect my motives so I’m not looking for validation here)
I think the system NEVER works and is brittle PRECISELY because the parties themselves are undemocratic. I would go so far as to say that _THIS_ is the main issue and NOT the judiciary.
Just look at the US democracy. Bush and the Zionist Neocons have been stuffing the Supreme Court with their own sleazebags.. but the system has give because the forces opposing them are democratically elected and they have democratic checks on every level.
Another goddamned issue is that we Pakistani’s think Democracy means “Listening to other’s point of view:
NO! NO! NO!!
That is just common decency and politeness..
Democracy is a negative feedback system (for governance in the political arena). It is a NERVOUS SYSTEM! IT is not a way to setup a polite forum (actually that is exactly how moshe defines parliament - class 2 with 3 class monitors and no making noise until recess — WTF?)
Democracy is a way to “get a sense of the state of the organizm where organism is the polity/society/party itself”
When you don’t have democracy, you have situations like this where majority of the party wants one thing, but the guy who produced the will to take the party leadership wants something completely different (and in the ‘establishment’s’ advantage - who the party workers gave their bloody lives in opposition to)
PPPP have led down the head of all pakistani nation. I don’t feel that there some law in the country. I think Gen. Musharraf and PCO oath Judges at 3rd Nov broke the law of Pakistan. Law breakers must be punished.
Ohooo i am forgetting telling you Guyz how would PPPP will decide to punish them, in the end of the day Zardari and B Nazir were left free by Gen.
In short, on 18th November people of Pakistan voted against dictatorship making it weak but PPPP have made it strong once again.
Welldone PPPP. :(:(
@Peja & TK
We are talking about the evolution of democracy, its roots in the middle-classes and the so-called Protestant Ethic and how democratic values can be inculcated in the political parties. Normally, I don’t like to recommend books at the drop of a hat because mostly nobody pays attention (we Pakistanis are not a book reading people) and, plus, I don’t want to sound pretentious.
But I want to recommend an excellent book on this topic before that 18 stone woman of yours shows up and crushes me. (Tell her to go on a diet…..hehe)
I know we can post back and forth messages to each other but if you really want to know how it really happened, you will read this book. It is very very accessible and relevant. It is available from Amazon.
You can read this page No. 118 here for a little taste. Read this link.
The Middle Class and Democracy in Socio-Historical Perspective
by Ronald M. Glassman
I N T R O D U C T I O N
“According to Aristotle, a large, prosperous middle class may mediate between rich and poor, creating the structural foundation upon which democratic political processes may operate. Beyond Aristotelian theory, the specifically commercial nature of the middle class is also made central, as the democratic institutions of law, power limitation, and electoral participation were carried by a commercial middle class. This volume traces the development of democracy and the rise of the commercial middle class from ancient Greece to Renaissance Italy, to post-feudal Europe.”
@peja:
Can you please back it up with examples (Sonia Gandhi don’t count because Congres is and has been WAY more democratic at grassroots level than anything Pakistan can ever come up with)
This claim sounds almost as fantastic as a perpetual motion machine that violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics but I’m willing to be proven wrong
Zardari is trying to CLEANUP all the cases so don’t be amazed with decisions his party makes.
Link to Yahoo News Article
My comment on the second peja quote starts with :
“Sorry, the point is NOT …”
@TK
so be careful … hahaha…
It is hard for me to explain to you what I mean , but as long as you are ranting against AZ and loving NS , or hating NS and loving IK , I would be with you. Only when (if) you start shouting against all the politicians and start praying for “Nizam-e-Islam” or “Nizam-e-Khilafat” or “a pious dictator” or “pray for the health of mafia don”. I would put you in the dreaded “ignore list”
BTW I liked
This is exactly what I want and I am not sure if I tried to hide it as I always said I am very very optimistic , I used to be passimistic before 18th of Feb , it is evident from blog and my comments posted on pkpolitics.
@mbokhari,( @peja) :
thanks for the link! always good to get a reading recommendation!
Btw, guys/gals it’s not rocket science! It’s the most basic thing! the Pathans do it, the Punjabi’s do it.. everyone’s been doing it..
This BS of oooh we’re not ready is just that. BS! A ruse used by the kleptocracy to keep the people from organizing and the feudals (who start most parites) are in on it.
The point is that our “leaders” don’t trust the judgement of the people! They are afraid of the people .. (like Zardari etc) or they are afraid of the party being subverted by the agencies (like IK is I think) … but let us not forget.. The king’s men in the middle ages were just as wily and ruthless (if not more) than the Tariq Aziz’s of today.. So let us not blame our own cowardice on the system or the education level of “the masses” …
All decisions will be done by simple votes of the members. Some will be done by 2/3 of the members in a constituenceies.. Lower levels elect members in the upper levels etc etc.
so on and so forth..
It’s not that hard really..
@mbokhari
Thanks for the book reference I would definitely like to read it.
I have been trying to work out the theory of why the illeterates of Sind and Southren Punjab are more politically enlightened than an educated middle class of urban sind (karachi) and urban Punjab (Northern Punjab). I am trying (perhaps in vain) to refute the argument that it is just because of Sindi’s folklore love for Bhuttos and Srieki’s hatred against the punjabi establishment.
@peja:
hehe.. well, I’m for the People! and I want to see the workers of PPP and PML-N empowered.. they are the ones really taking the heat.. a THOUSAND times more than what these so called ‘politicians’ would ever do.
So I may lose faith in every single politician in the land but I will NEVER lose faith in the unsung heroes of democracy, the workers of all these parties. And if you look at it.. it is a bit unfair that these parties consider these workers good enough to go out, sacrifice their life, limb, liberty, meager family means for “the struggle for democracy” but the very same parties don’t consider these very same workers good enough to pick their Tehsil Chairmen/women and party officials who would have the power to elect the district level officials who would have the power to select the division level to province level..
You know.. the chain of responsibility extends all the way back to the worker in the trenches!
If you trust him to give his life for you in the trenches, then trust him to vote your party officials from those very trenches! And believe me, if it ever comes to pass, NO Army in the world could take power away from democratically organized parties.
Javed Hashmi Where Art Thou!
@TK
Let me try to explain.
In 1989 , I was pipliya and against NS. Then BB decided give “tamgha-e-jamhooriat” to Aslam Beg , she accepted all the establishments people in her government , I got disappointed , screamed like people are screaming now , later on her government was dismissed by establishment , I got some consolation , when NS won the election in 91 , I thought him the biggest agent of establishment , then his government was dismissed too , I got confused again as BB accepted to play with establishment. And Lo and Behold her government was dismissed again , then NS came with big majority I even voted for him (as I was disillusioned by PPP) and then martial law came.
So the lesson I learnt in the end was this all the political parties are anti-establishment , give them the power and they will stand against the gun power. Now I am grown up I ignore all those arguments ganja is fool , BB is corrupt , AZ is Mr. 100% , Muslim League is establishment’s party , Shahbaz Sharif is ISI man, AZ will be Shujaat Hussain , PPP will be PML-Q…………………………………..
hehehe….
My 6 year son just said this to me .. so perhaps I am still 6 year old kid.
@Peja: “give them the power and they will stand against the gun power. ”
right on, but the word power is key here. It is the People and the workers who give them the power, and the leaders are given this based on the credibility they have with the workers and people.
This is why the ‘establishment’ (faujistanic-kleptocracy) always tries to make these people lose their connection with the people and workers. This is what I’m afraid is happening with PPP right now… once AAZ loses the connection with reality of the people and workers.. he will have no choice _but_ to be at the mercy of moshe & company (Q, m-qm, fazlu, AG, Pirzada, etc)
Also, this ‘establishment’ of ours is nothing but a collection of bureaucrats and they are by nature anal-retentive, petty, jealous, suspicious of the people, and arbitrary and capricious
I think this should explain the behaviour you described in ur comment (BB shah, BB Thah, NS Shah, NS Tha, BB Shah, BB Tha.. NS Shah, NS THA, …) no rhyme or reason.. except that they are arbitrary and capricious!
This is why I htink the CoD is a baby step in the right direction. My job as a joe-blow nobody is to keep the miniscule pressure on them .. and use sites like pkpolitics as a force multiplier. If I can get one right person to listen to my rants.. maybe I’ve done some good.
@Peja
“why the illeterates of Sind and Southren Punjab are more politically enlightened”
First of all, they are not more enlightened. They are just more repressed. I guess what you are trying to hint at is, the thesis that the inhabitants of these climes are uneducated and always vote Bhuttos. I guess you are being sarcastic. My pet theory follows:
I partially agree with this thesis. But with certain caveats. First off, the sacrifice culture of PPP, its folklore of struggle and its resistance to tyranny jives well with the soul of Seraikis and Sindhis. In the monumental struggles of PPP, as narrated in the Bhutto Mythology, they see the story of their lives, the story of their peoples, the eternal puppet play of the Waderas and Haris.
BB is Marvi/Rapunzul, Establishment is Umar. The sheer power of myth provides the narrative upon which the whole PPP vote is built on. Plus the Sufi religious traditions provide a handy cultural foundation of a peer and his mureeds. The mureeds are loyal to the peer, even unto the point of death. We see the fighting peers only in Sindh, and rarely in Punjab. A prime example was the father of Pir Pagaro and his Hurs. The religious fighters in other parts of Pakistan were more Deobandi or High Church variety. Shuhada of Balakot were not folk-religioinists or sufis. The only fighting Sufis come from Sindh. ZAB was another fighting Sufi, a mythological figure. The coming together of this historical irony is that the graves of Bhuttos have become ACTUAL sufi shrines with cries of “Bhutto is our peer”
There is a great book by Joseph Campbell whose name escapes me. I think its something 1001 faces of the hero and he explains this pretty well.
I don’t want to ramble on and on but I just want to provide another similarity. The Islamization of Iran was a traumatic experience but the Iranian soul rebelled against Arab imperialism and Umayyads. They found a handy vehicle in the form of Abbasids (and later Shia-ism) with the story of sacrifice and struggle of Ali and Hussain. In the story of Karbala, they saw their own destruction and demise. But in the story, the Imam fought alone (ekla chalo) and this gave the Iranian soul some balm and courage. In a way, what I am trying to say is this: For Iran and its rebellion against the Arab establishment, Imam Hussain was like ZAB and Shia Islam was like PPP. No wonder, a lot of people call the PPP a cult even today
The people of Northern Punjab are more mercantile, more industrial, more urbanized and hence more educated. They have no need of this story of sacrifice and struggle because they have no Haris and Waderas. They are more like the mercantile classes of Holland and England that brought in the Calvinist, Protestant industrial revolution.
Whoooosh!….That is WHY I think we have the voting patterns we have. There is a terrific William Dalrymple article on this topic but I have just lost the will to live after writing such a long analysis that I have no wish to Google it.
@mbokhari
interesting link…looking forward to read the book
wondering if you have any suggestions for a book/s describing the evolution of educational institutions in the 18th century….perhaps linking them to a socio political agenda??
@kafka
I haven’t looked too deeply into this but I read a book which dealt partly with these issues but I never finished it. It was too dry
Citizenship and Rights in Multicultural Societies
anyone watched NAWAZ SHARIF interview(14/05/08) with HAMID MIR?
HE is determind to go 4 his PAKISTANI agenda no matter at watever cost.
NS is a really changed man.
ASIF GHADDARI seems too happy to get a wash with the US desingned and ESTABLISHMENT(read MUSH & CO) operated WASHING MACHINE named as NRO.Nobody knows how one looks like after wash as NRO WASHING MACHINE is a new invention and is being used 4 the 1st time.
any guess by the learned readers?
@mbokhari: hey good analysis! I’m glad u took the time… I tend to agree.. I’d like to add a little bit that the rich culture of these areas itself provides a lot of “non traditional” education..
ie the IQ maybe average , but the Social IQ and the EQ is maybe higher…. Also, the sufi currents, though slow moving and impreceptible can act as forces of nature over historical periods. I think this is why I see more Seraiki’s and Sindhi’s involved in the political arena.. because they are natural power brokers (being at the cross roads of civilizations and commerce for millenia I think ). This reflects in seemingly very outwardly docile and unbearably polite mannerisms as well.. which I think is part of the same ‘education’ process. Relationships and management of complex relationships are very important in Seraiki/Sindhi culture… just look at the names of relatives… different kinds of relatives…
They are also pragmatic and realistic … another sign of a merchant/broker past .. make a deal if you can.. otherwise no hard feelings .. this especially because of proximity to the old axis of commerce, the river Indus (Abaseen? Aba SaaeeN ? )
anyways.. I think this un-conventional ‘education’ has something to do with it along with the dispossession and dis-enfranchisement of more recent times as u mentioned (it being the political awareness - which I think comes from a strong sense of culture and identity of account of these people being so ancient).
This is the book I mentioned:
THE HERO WITH A THOUSAND FACES
by Joseph Campbell
—————————————————————–
In the long run, the most influential book of the 20th Century may
turn out to be Joseph Campbell’s THE HERO WITH A THOUSAND FACES.
He discovered that all story-telling, consciously or not, follows
the ancient patterns of myth, and that all stories, from the crudest
jokes to the highest flights of literature, can be understood in
terms of the “HERO MYTH”.
THE SHORT FORM OF THE HERO STORY:
The hero is introduced in his ordinary world, where he receives the
call to adventure. He is reluctant at first but is encouraged by
the wise old man or woman to cross the first threshold, where he
encounters tests and helpers. He reaches the innermost cave, where
he endures the supreme ordeal. He seizes the sword or the treasure
and is pursued on the road back to his world. He is resurrected and
transformed by his experience. He returns to his ordinary world with
a treasure, boon, or elixir to benefit his world.
Christ, Hitler, Moses, Mohammed, and Buddha all understood the principles
in the book and applied them to influence millions.
—————————————————–
Joseph Campbell’s Hero and Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto - A Brief Exegesis by mbokhari
(This can be equally applied to Muhammad (saw), Imam Hussain, Tipu Sultan, NS etc etc….)
The stages of the HERO are:
1) THE HERO IS INTRODUCED IN HIS ORDINARY WORLD.
Most stories take place in a special world, a world that is new and
alien to its hero. If you’re going to tell a story about a fish out
of his customary element, you first have to create a contrast by
showing him in his mundane, ordinary world.
ZAB born to a second wife, a Hindu wife of a Sindhi Wadera.
2) THE CALL TO ADVENTURE.
The hero is presented with a problem, challenge, or adventure.
Maybe the land is dying, as in the Arthur stories about the search
for the Holy Grail.
Joining the government. Rising up politically. Going to Berkely and Oxford.
3) THE HERO IS RELUCTANT AT FIRST.
Often at this point, the hero balks at the threshold of adventure.
After all, he or she is facing the greatest of all fears — fear of
the unknown.
Ayub is Daddy. ZAB would never betray Ayub Khan
4) THE HERO IS ENCOURAGED BY THE WISE OLD MAN OR WOMAN.
By this time many stories will have introduced a mentor who gives advice and
sometimes magical weapons. This is Obi Wan Kenobi giving Luke
Skywalker his father’s light sabre.
The mentor can only go so far with the hero. Eventually the hero
must face the unknown by himself. Sometimes the wise old man is
required to give the hero a swift kick in the pants to get the
adventure going.
J. A. Rahim. Dr. Mubashir Hassan
5) THE HERO PASSES THE FIRST THRESHOLD.
He fully enters the special world of his story for the first time.
This is the moment at which the story takes off and the adventure
gets going. The balloon goes up, the romance begins, the plane or
spaceship blasts off, the wagon train gets rolling.
ZAB’s first train ride in 1967. Founding of PPP
6) THE HERO ENCOUNTERS TESTS AND HELPERS.
The hero is forced to make allies and enemies in the special world,
and to pass certain tests and challenges that are part of his
training.
People join up. Movement gathers steam. Ayub tries to have him arrested.
7) THE HERO REACHES THE INNERMOST CAVE
The hero comes at last to a dangerous place, often deep underground,
where the object of his quest is hidden.
Elections of 1970.
THE HERO ENDURES THE SUPREME ORDEAL.
This is the moment at which the hero touches bottom. He faces the
possibility of death, brought to the brink in a fight with a
mythical beast.
This is a critical moment in any story, an ordeal in which the hero
appears to die and is born again. It’s a major source of the magic
of the hero myth. What happens is that the audience has been led to
identify with the hero. We are encouraged to experience the
brink-of- -death feeling with the hero.
ZAB survives conspiracies of murder. Pakistan is broken. ZAB could not prevent Pakistan’s breakup
9) THE HERO SIEZES THE SWORD.
Having survived death, beaten the dragon, slain the Minotaur, the
hero now takes possession of the treasure he’s come seeking.
Sometimes it’s a special weapon like a magic sword, or it may be a
token like the Grail or some elixer which can heal the wounded land.
ZAB is President, CMLA, Prime Minister
10) THE ROAD BACK.
The hero’s not out of the woods yet. Some of the best chase scenes
come at this point, as the hero is pursued by the vengeful forces
from whom he has stolen the elixir or the treasure. .
If the hero has not yet managed to reconcile with his father or the
gods, they may come raging after him at this point.
Election fraud. PNA campaign. J.A.Rahim beaten. Other PPP old guard skip town.
11) RESURRECTION.
The hero emerges from the special world, transformed by his
experience. There is often a replay here of the mock
death-and-rebirth of stage 8, as the hero once again faces death and
survives. Each ordeal wins him new command over the Force. He is
transformed into a new being by his experience.
Zia, Martial Law. Bhutto charged with murder. Stays in Pakistan. Convicted. Hanged.
12) RETURN WITH THE ELIXIR.
The hero comes back to his ordinary world, but his adventure would
be meaningless unless he brought back the elixir, treasure, or some
lesson from the special world. Sometimes it’s just knowledge or
experience, but unless he comes back with the exlixir or some boon
to mankind, he’s doomed to repeat the adventure until he does.
ZAB is dead! Long live ZAB!
@TK
Poppycock! Balderdash! ….hehe..
This is what is really fuqqed up with the Seraikis and Sindhis. The slave mentality. The smile on the face and malice within, the ‘baghal me chHuri, moo pe raam raam’. People like these make bad servants and worst masters.
For me being a Seraiki, I consider it only an accident in time and space. I have no emotional attachment to the strengths or weaknesses of a group of people who call themselves Seraiki. (except Seraiki Poetry, Music and History)
As I have taught myself to look at Muslims, at ourselves, with non-Muslim eyes, only so that I can see what’s wrong, so I have also taught myself to look at Seraikis with non-Seraiki eyes. (non-bhaingi…hehe) As a result, I take my ancestors being Seraikis from Multan / Uch via Bokhara as an amusing spatio-temporal accident. Thats why I am an “Israeki”
What you or I call typical Seraiki or Sindhi culture is just the shared heritage of poverty, exploitation, ignorance and superstition. I had a Brazilian flatmate once and she told me a lot about her culture. Believe me, there were a LOT of similarities in the class struggles, religious exploitation, ignorance and injustice between average Pakistanis and Brazilians. Incidentally, they have the same sh!tty quality soaps like we do.
Therefore I look at all situations as an outsider and try to subjectively remove any biases I may have. But since I have spent only around 2-3 years living in Pakistan, I found myself more comfortable in Northern Punjab and Karachi. So, I guess it has to do more with education/class differences.
Your “seemingly very outwardly docile and unbearably polite mannerisms” of Serikis reminds me of what NJ said about Seraikis: They can stab you and you won’t know. Rings true. Therefore, don’t go all soft on Seraikis on account of me. But stay clear of Israekis
I have had a fantasy of having a Brazillian Flatmate all my life.
I refuse to read the rest of your comment and intend to sulk in the corner for the next 24 hours.!!
BTW, I didn’t say they’re not humans.. I said “seemingly outwardly”… I don’t think there is malice and I don’t think it is only because of the recent period of exploitation and backwardness.. iSraiki’s are still waters, and they run deep. One day you may find out grass hopper!
anyways.. back to sulking….. mumble mumble grumble mumble
Brazillian Flatmates — A true blessing of the Lord
Desi looks with Gori mentality…..what more can a momin ask for? (in a future life, you pervert)
AZ has proved that he is a better political player than NS. AZ has gained a lot since he joined hands with Establishment; all case against him gone and more importantly he is now a free man and probably the second most powerful man in the country. He has got his numbers in the Federal parliament since he has kept MQM on his side. NS is now in deep trouble. If he continues his confrontational politics and tries to do anything like running a protest march or campaign to restore judges; he will face a possible challenge from a combined alliance of PPP and PML-Q to topple his Govt in Punjab. His brother is more cunning than NS. There is another point if his ministers have resigned from Federal cabinet why not resign from Punjab Govt as well. It is hypocrisy to sit in Punjab Govt while playing negative politics in the Centre.
I don’t see any coalition government between PPP-PMLN.
When march 9th happened and all the political parties came for restoration for CJ on the streets, i knew they came to streets to get votes for next elections.
My 50 % theory is proven to be right bcz AZ said there are other big issues to face in the country right now. But NZ has taken very strong stance on free judiciary since March 9th.
Now i only see Musharaff kicking “chaudaries bro” out of PMLQ and new leader Hamid Nasir Chatta. Chaudaries bro will only one option to start talk with PMLN. If they accept their responsibilty what they did in Punjab and want to join PMLN, i have no complain over that.
Next coming up elections PML N n Q will sweep in punjab, nwfp, baluchistan and PPP will only have some seats in Sindh. APDM will gain more seats and that is the end of PPP.
Even if PPP impeach Musharaff later, i will not accept them as genuine demoractic forces so called shahedoo ki party.
Long Live our CJ and Lawyers of Pakistan, Civil Society
Pakistan news has nothing else than politics. We should consider on the issues we are facing to survive. It doesn not matter for me who is the CM as long as i can live free and get my basic needs in the country.
@mbokhari
Thanks for intersting and knowledgable analysis. Here is how I want to postulate my thesis. There is some research required on several points in this thesis.
1. I find that the social structure of an illeterate society specially in the areas of Southern Punjab and Interior Sind , make them more democratic in nature where they don’t rely on the individual wisdom of some highly learned person instead they rely on the common wisdom of the society. The jirgas , collective decision making and the common struggle against the opperssion is the manifestation of such democratic process.
2. They are not afraid to make decision which are against the local establishment (Jageerdars, Beauracrates , and local opperssive mechanism). I have several examples of this and am collecting few more to prove my point. Theoretically I believe that this is because of their ability to counter the pressure by their power of harmony in their social structure.
3. Unlike the educated class of industrialized regions , the educated class of these areas have much better understanding of the democratic norms (politicaly enlightened). I am collecting some data about the number of political analyst , intellectuals and activists and their way of thinking.
4. These areas have produced many political leaders although they may be Pirs, Jageerdar , but these leaders have proved to be highly popular leaders.
5. Somehow what I have noticed is that the people of these areas have more faith in the power of vote and they believe in their inalienable right to choose their leaders. Again I am collecting the data about that.
6. A universal truth that I understand is that the educated class in indisturialized regions becomes ammune to the oppression due to several level of classes in their social structure, hence the internal tug of war in the class conflict makes them inherently weak to make better political decisions. I also consider China and India as better democracies than western democracies in some respects, especially if you look from the perspective of their (US & Europe) insatiable thrist to kill people (wars, weapon of mass distruction) and control for resources (Oil , Gas , Nuclear Energy) for “ONLY” their use. The people in these countries are usually helpless and perhaps clueless how to stop their governments.
….
Thanks again for your very good insight .
@Peja
I think, the Establishment has proved to be a step ahead of your analysis. You are still locked in the 1980s and 1990s where a clear distinction can be made between establishment and political forces. Your current analysis is also based on this premise.
I think, Establishment has learnt its lessons and knows well that it now must rule through political forces. Consequently, it has infliterated and converted some political forces into Establishment.
I feel sad that you are not willing to admit that we may have to revise our theories based on new evidence. Instead you are adament to continue with your theories despite contrary evidence. The result is that unlike your earlier analysis - pre-election times - now your analysis are abstract, generalised rather than full of data and evidence.
When i say I feel sad, it is genuine because I believe if for once you open up to consider even the posisbility that this time the game plkan of establishment might be different, we will all once again benefit from your analysis…
ibnrazi
I have been reading all this rubbish talk of “PPP has ended politically” after sitting with Musharraf and NS will claim a landslide win in the next election. You are living in a fantasy world. Even after the political murder of Great leader ZAB; PPP has survived tougher times than this and will continue to live in the hearts of people of Pakistan.
We should not forget that it was under the NS Govt when Supreme Court was attacked, ZAB was executed wrongly from this court system at the behest of Gen. Zia. Where was independent judiciary then? AZ was kept in jail for 11 years of his life; where was your independent judiciary then? NS was coward and he made a secret deal with the same President who sacked him and left the country. NS himself is the Baqiat of Gen Zia and Establishment and he does not know what AZ has gone through in the 11 years of imprisonment. AZ lost his wife and he lived without kids for so long. PPP is an awami party and her roots are in every electorate of Pakistan. You will see in the next election PPP will get even more seats.
wow…..wow….. shame, shame, shame………. a person who dont know the problems of a common man, a person who cant live without his Stupid Fashion, without his Stupid World of Fantasy………………….a man has NO DIGNITY, NO WORTH in the Punjab is now goind to rule it……. how Disgusting and Shameful it is……………… i dont know where r we going. we have lost our political sense……we r confused and panic, we dont know what to do. instead of getting RID of MUSHARAF and his people, we are appointing his BELOVED ones on the major posts…………………………………………
ITS AN INSULT OF PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN AND OF THOSE WHO HAD GIVEN THIER LIVES TO SAVE PAKISTAN FROM THESE KIND OF DEVILS…………..
(MOHSIN CHAUDHARY)
But how can PPP appoint him as he is from Leghari group????
Intriguing!!!!while browsing thru the thread I noticed quite a few new entants advocating N & Q marriage. I think they don’t know NS. Ask raja nadir pervez
well this makes it clear
put things togather and its obvous whats happening
the stories of a deal between MUSH and BB , denied by PPP so far were not wrong after all
and the role of US, and UK is clear aswell
PPP wins elctions, works with MUSH, judges dont come back, working relationship between PPP and Mutahida Qatil Movement, AZ gets NRO all cases gone etc
everything is going on as planned
those who still think PPP is working for the people are living on a different planet
isnt it time to not to think about your feelings about Bhutto’s party and BB but to think about this country?
this is no more Bhutto’s party
@ibnrazi
, Same also goes true for other leaders like AZ , IK etc. I know that we like to look and compare the leaders with a biased approach (and I don’t think it is wrong) , there will be people who would like to prove AZ is bad and there will be others who would love to prove NS is fool. However I would like to evaluate them based on the real results and will pass my judgement on them very late perhaps when AZ is “shaheed” too :).
This is what I call the stage where you “agree to disagree”. I have as many evidences to prove that political forces are gaining strength day by day as you have that establishment has learnt over the period of time. I personally believe that the learning capacity of establishment is very limited they have been using all the same instruments for over 50 years and they have no new ideas. I also believe that politicians are much capable to learn and adapt new strategies and they have much broader and higher vision. I hate to prove that NS has matured as politician as this somehow it means that he was an immature leader before
But at the moment I think that they are playing their cards very well , I can not buy the idea of pushing the establishment in one go, though I would love to see that , that is why I hope the judicial bus and protests of the general public are directed towards Army House.
@Truthteller you surely are from Zardari house, a lamo like Farhat ullah babar or stupidest of the stupids Farooq Naek…
PPP is no more a bhutto party ,it consists of zardari’s friends and darbaris. People within the PPP will no-confidence and kick zardari’s butt for once and all. PPP’s real leader is MAF, the leader BB herself appointed as the president of the parliamentarians. Zardari is making his own party because he is scared of Bbs loyalists and many of them know the way he mistreated the poor woman plus all his affairs with other women. He killed his cousin in KARO KARI before he married Benazir and I am quite sure that he has convinced himself that benazir is a karo kari case and I must kill her. Ask her personal servants in Dubai who were forced to spy on her while he livedin New York and screwed other women and took them to Macys for huge shopping sprees.
There have been few new developments
1. Nawaz Sharif and Shabaz Sharif nomination papers have been accepted and now they can contest polls
2. The goverment has offered all teh judges of high courts who did not take oath under PCO of REAPPOINTMENT (WHICH MEANS THEY WOULD LOSE THEIR SENIORITY) and not reinstatement on the condition that they would accept restoration of judiciary minus Iftikhar Chaudhry
3. PPP has meekly accepted appointment of Salman Taseer who is agent of Musharraf and is owner of Daily Times whose Najam Sethi is well know for writing articles in favour of foreign powers and also gave a speech against Pakistan when he was in India and was in caretaker goverment when Leghari had dismissed BB goverment in 1996.
4. Where is Asif Zardari taking PPP - I am sure this would be the last stint of PPP
5. Because PPP has stooped so low and has gone against Charter of Democracy and has stabbed not only Nawaz Sharif in back repeatedly but also people of Pakistan therefore NS should also open his contacts with PMLQ and bring them into its fold and should not let Zardari play a role in any intrigue of bringing the Punjab Goverment down.
6. I believe Zardari is more dangerous than pervez Elalhi because pervez elahi at least says it openly and is not a hypocrite while Zardiari is a fox and attacks when you suspect the least.
7. In a seperate development Musharraf met the Chaudhry brothers when he came to know that there was an informal meeting between Caudhry Nisar and Wajahat Hussain in the plane
8. There is columinist who is getting very prominent by name of Rauf Klasra - he is constantly crtiicsing NS and is an agent of Musharraf no doubt - so NS beware of this guy.
Zardari is an ugly and stinky kuttay ka bucha who killed Benazir with Hussain Haqqani and Rehman Malik. He will use BB’s poor children whenever he will see his graph going down. Poor kids. BTW his younger but not real brother is doing full time land corruption in Sind and the EDO/DDO/ etc etc report to Hakim zardari,the big crook then Tappi, the younger crook and finally Furiyal Chaudhrian oh sorry Talpur, who has invaded Bhutto house in Naudero and has become much more than her real AUQAT allows her to….. Thanks to BB’s Shahadat.
@cHussain
Rauf Klasra is paid by the establishment and also Rehman Malik but to look neutral he runs anti stories too.
hi all,
its unfortunate to see ppp govt playing in hands of establishment,appointing people like salman taseer,salman farooqi,rehman malik,THE icons of corruption,just because of Mr.zardari.now the fog is clearing up.how amin fahim was advised to be in contact with mush by BB and after her assasination,that was used against amin fahim by Mr.Zardari to defame him and push him on the back rows of party.we are for sure heading towards an election and 2/3rd majority to pml-n and APDM if not a revolution.
Ladies and gentlemen PPP for you.
@ Truth Teller20
JA YA QAWALI KISSI UR KO SUNNA.
You have not answered my few questions earlier in live with talat.
Few more questions for u.
1. wats the difference between smartness and Begharti.
2. difference between NRO and justice.
3. Free man in this world only or a free man in your own conscious.
Tell the truth.
@ Truth Teller20
JA YA QAWALI KISSI UR KO SUNNA.
You have not answered my few questions earlier in live with talat.
Few more questions for u.
1. wats the difference between smartness and Begharti.
2. difference between NRO and justice.
3. Free man in this world only or a free man in your own conscious.
Tell the truth.
@ALL
Plz donot call them black sheep but instead BLACK DOGS OR BLACK PIGS.
@ ALL>>> This is my opinion.
1. AZ was involved in all those corruptions. Also Swiss court convicted both BB and AZ. In my opinion might BB was not involved in all his corruptions.
2.When BB came back to Pakistan then she realizes that she needs to take a firm stand and she stood against mush by rejecting NRO, by saying go mush go, by saying deposed CJ is my acting CJ.
3.Who was involved in her assasination. In my opinion USA Govt., mush,
R malik coz he was security incharge of BB, might directly or indirectly AZ. coz AZ become the direct beneficiary of NRO, Power politics, Money and head of a popular party. Instead of firing R malik for not protecting his wife he gave him very important post without even participating in election. AZ did not let postmortum to find the real cause of death. AZ said we will do UN inquiry but he has done no inquiry up to today. AZ kick out all the real leaders of PPP from his consultations.
4. There should be independent inquiry of BB assasination in the presence of media through independent judiciary.
Thses are my opinions might I am right or wrong, but I just needed to share with all of u.
@all those who right loooooooooooooong comments
Guys do you know that how boring you can get?
why the heck to you write such a long ( and useless) posts?
and if someone by mistake starts reading your long stories, there is hardldy one or two useful comments in the whole God damn thing
just wonder if you do realize this is not a place to publish your Ph.D thesis?
Also if you indeed are so enlightened, that you can write an Alaf-Laila about whatever comes your way, then you must be doing something quite unusual and great in tour own careers and personal lives.
Could you kindly not vomit all your thoughts on poor readers , and try to be brief please?
I know its a hrd thing to do as its easy to write long stories but more difficult to express yourelf briefly
regards
Appointment of Taseer as Governor Punjab “part of conspiracy”: Ch. Nisar
@BABU
if i may add to your comments
1. AZ was involved in all those corruptions. Also Swiss court convicted both BB and AZ. In my opinion BB also defintely involved in all his corruptions. Also AZ was responsible for killing of BB
@nota: after NS interview it is very clear that not only PPP and PML-N are separate but they are heading towards each other on a collision course!
So much for establishment being on the run etc..
@admin
so my commnet about long posts on this site needs moderation
and many comments with filthy language dont?
wonder if admin sir you are wone of those guys who posts these long comments with different names
is it?
and you are not ahppy to tolerate anything about that?
great stuff
@khan_gul: I hear ya dude… I’m guilty of this too!!
.. but you know.. after you’ve been around a while you’ll learn to ignore such comments.. actually.. I think it would be good to tag these as OT or OFFTOPIC/OBSCENE at the very top. I used to do that but I’m getting lazy… but I think I’ll start doing that again to help other users ignore a specific discussion.
reason is that there is no threading on wordpress … that would help a great deal.
but you know.. if you don’t like it.. just move along.. and thanks for your thoughts.
PML-N should do the right thing and leave the treasury benches, only then will they have the higher moral ground. Right now, seemingly, they are pretty much being taken for a ride and are happy to wait and see where it leads as long as they are a part of some sort of power sharing arrangement.
Being in the opposition is not a bad idea, Pakistan needs a strong opposition.
@TK
thanks for understanding
and sorry if i was a bit rude
it was nothng personal
tc
[...] Source: PK Politics [...]
This farce is getting sillier by the day. And the saddest part is that it was wholly unnecessary. If the Zardari PPP had shown some backbone, we could have seen a restored judiciary AND a polity in which there were TWO powerful parties capable of keeping some check on each other. By allying himself so completely with Musharraf, Zardari will destroy the PPP as a united force AND damage liberal forces in general…and when Musharraf goes (as he eventually must…these shenanigans are not going to save him) the popular earthquake may provide far too much power to the PML-N….unchecked power corrupts in any setting. But who is to blame? Not Nawaz Sharif but Musharraf and his cronies are to blame….a list that now seems to include Zardari sahib..
(While I am saddened by the losses that the PPP will suffer, I must say that I will shed no tears for Najam Sethi and his shameless newspaper)
This nation is for sale through its leaders…boli lugao khareed lo.
In press conference when Ch Nisar said “he is of dubious political and financial background”, for a moment I thought he was describing nawaz sharif.
I AM a big supporter of NS, he is a leader, PPP have made again a big mistake and they are getting their selfs away from NS and peoples of PK. Zardari is over confidente, and he will be beaten very soon, if he continues like this he will losse very soon his gripe on party and governement. i must say that i wanted to see PMLN AND PPP but i think that zardari do’nt want tto do so.
@pak.nukes and BABU FROM USA
How many more times PML will be resurrected in the future by the Establishment? Which is the original faction of PML? You guys have run out of all ABCDEF for putting in front of PML. PPP is only one PPP without any ABCDEF. ZAB founded it and it still remains in the hearts of majority of people of Pakistan. Gen Zia did everything to finish off PPP but he and his Establishment failed. PML including NS is the baqiat of Establishment (of Gen Zia) and is used by them as it suits them. Where did NS come from? Of course from the laps of Gen Zia. There is another name for PML and it was used in 1988 election. If you do not remember that name then I will remind you, it was IJI again formed by Establishment with the help of dodgy parties to fight against PPP. We all know who won 1988 election and also 2008 election.
There has been a consistent effort from the Establishment and smaller parties to finish off PPP from the political map of Pakistan but PPP remains in the hearts of people of all provinces not just in one province. NS may use Punjab card to win next election like he did during 1988 Punjab provincial assembly election. Do not forget his slogan of JAG Punjabi JAG.
political discussion is based on things happenin on the ground n things which are about to happen where as philosophical discussions based on past experiences endeavour by historians which is not always true…
so political discussions shouldn’t be mixed with philosophical discussions….if thats needed to be done than there should be another blog….named as pkpolitics/philosophy discussions blog n previliged members:TK,mbokhari,peja….deals with philosophy…
@Truth Teller 20>>> again the same Qawali.
Check your truth teller Machine it is at default >>> it looks like it is not working properly.
Why you are not answering the real questions i have asked you.
@Pak Nukes
I disagree with you slightly.
Nation is not for sale. Its the corrupt leaders those who are on sale. you donot need to bid just contact the great pimp R malik to buy them.
This new governor of punjab looks like a star trek character.
I hope PPP true leadership will be thinking how to get rid of AZ, R malik, Naik,sheery and company.
I hope soon Fatima Bhutto along with Amin Fahim, Raza Rabbani, Atizaza Ahsan and other true leadreship of PPP will safe the party.
@ truth Teller
R malik said he is the establishment and R malik is working for AZ.
Do you think Zia came back in R malik shape to destroy PPP.
i think NS and his main leaders sound sincere , better than PP at least
but they are constanly foold by Asif Zardari Company Ltd.
being bhola and silly is not an excuse for a ledearship
they should wake up to whats been doen to them not only once but frequently by PPP
Looking at this News story, the other three names put up by PPP were:
Jehangir Badar, Dr Babar Awan and Khawaja Tariq Rahim.
What are the Media Outlets of Salman Taseer’s group ???
PPP should think and ponder what Asif Zardari is doing to them and their party
it was PPP jiyalas who gave thier lives and went to jail and who are the beneficiaries - here is the list
1. Senator Babar Awan - Official spokesman and senator
2. Senator Farooq Niak - Law Minister
3. Rehman Malik - Interior Minister - (who is not even elected and as advisor he is far stronger than even Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani and is directly impilcated in the murder of Benazir Bhutto in which Zardari is also indirectly implicated as the events are themselves showing up - he is letting Musharraf let go who called his wife and his father in law bad names and also did not give her real security )
4. Salman Taseer - Governer Punjab - (who was part of Interim Cabinet and also is owner of Daily Times where the famous black sheep journalist Najam Sethi - the so called liberal journailst is praising Musharraf and his company all the time and is a true Indian and American agent )
5. AG Qayum - continues to be Attorney General
6. Kamal Shah - continues to be Interior Secretary
7. Lt Gen Retd Durrani - as Security Advisor to PM
8. Ishrat ul Ibad - continues to be Sindh Governer
9. Ahsan Bhoon - Judge High Court Lahore (lota judge) who was Vice President Lahore High Court Bar and is PPP man
and the list goes on and on and on
So PPP jiyalas let me tell you that your party has been hijacked by corrupt , morally corrupt guys and you would be a fool now to give your life for these guys
I would strongly urge on NS to go soft on PMLQ and accept them in your fold before PPP Faisal Saleh Hayat and that woman Kushamala Tariq hijack it and make part of real PPP
Chaudhry Shujaat lost election only because Pervez Musharraf wanted it and there was a deal between Ahmed Mukhtar and Pervez Musharraf - that is why Ahmed Mukhtar is now Defence Minister. His brother Ahmed Saeed was PIA chairman for number of years and is very close to Tariq Aziz.
So even fair elections were not really fair - Musharraf played a game with Chaudhries and all his friends and decided to dump them and bring in Zardari and company and now he would use them.
Ahmed Mukhtar is new Rao Sikander Iqbal
Salman Taseer owns Daily Times, Friday Times and Business News
Remember there was a story in Business News before elections that they had gone to interview NS and he has misbehaved with them and it was highlighted tremendously.
Admin Please put up that video of Chaudhry Shujaat press conference in which Kushamala Tariq is sitting very close to him - even touching him and now she was teh one who was urging president that he should remove Chaudhry Shujaat from PMLQ Presidentship
@ c hussain >>> my friend when you give PPP jiyalas some advice they think we are against PPP. They start arguing on behalf of AZ ,R mailk and company and not on behalf of PPP as a party.
I hope true PPP leadership will step in sooner to stop these crazy corrupt so called PPP leaders.
All non-elected people from PPP are in leadership now including AZ.
PM Gilani looks like a xerox copy of ex PM saukat aziz. ( with no powers).
Have anyone sees BB Will/ did independent media had access to that will in which she chooses AZ as party leader. or he himself claims as a party leader.
JAG PPP JIYALA JAG
You can see from the HEADING how one sided this forum is. Very sad … It should be left for people to decide.
Very good step taken by Zardari … Now you will see the change in Sharifs tone … I am sure they will very soon agree to leave Iftikhar Chaudary (minus one formula) behind if Zardari remove Taseer …
Wait and see …
@forgotten_sindhi >>>LOL>>> CJ Iftikhar is not only NS problem.
did you see the people comments and wat you have decided now.
Black sheep or black Dog or Black Pig >>>
If this is AZ very good step then really we all need to wait and see.
Do you really think AZ, R malik, Naik and company is the true leadership of PPP / or they are working for mush.
@ Babu
Mr. from USA … you are also working for Americans.
From your replies to Truth Teller I can see your small anti PPP menatlity like most of ppl in this forum.
We have voted PPP and we are happy with their decision … who are you to tell us what leaders are good/bad for our party … you are the one who support the heading.
@ Truth Teller.
Very well said …
I bet NS and or his joker brother will not stand as Chief Minister Punjab.
Mooo pe joota.
@ forgotten _ sindhi
LOL >>>Oh really I am working for Americans. Good to know!! Did I sign NRO.
Since Truth Teller machine could not answer my questions so you got in to help him , but even you did not answer my questions.
you have voted for PPP and if you are happy with their decision then thats ur choice others might disagree with you.
you siad I have anti PPP mentality, wat about raja Shahid Zafar PPP leader does he has anti PPP mentality. Give reasons and not just slogans.
As a Pakistani I have all the right to tell about any leader if he/ she is good/ bad. Only problem is when you tell the truth it really hurts the Hypocrates.
Either the heading is right or wrong. I support the heading coz of reasons otherwise I donot have personal clash with black sheep. Give me reasons not to support the heading. If you have any?
@ Babu
Yes PPP is our choice and we agree with them and “others who might disagree” already voted against them … now there is no reason telling PPP supporters that your leadership is wrong.
Yes of course as a Pakistani you have all rights to tell any leader good or bad FOR PAKISTAN but you have no right to tell other party supporters that their leaders are good/bad. I dont like NS thats why I dont vote him but I never say any PML supporter that he is an idiot!!!
i think we should never surrender our right to call an idiot leader…an idiot!!
unless we are idiots to begin with!!
@ Kafka
Thanks.
@forgotten sindhi
you talking to me?
dear birathar.. this “forgottan-sindhi” is liar.
He cry about poepal attack Altaf Hussain.. one month ago! now he become supporter of Zardari .. he want to make fool of peopal to think he is sindhi.. he is bhayya
M Q M munafiq call themself sindhi, kaka-khel pathan, baloch_from_mountain
stupid nine zero monkey think they make fool of peopal here.
@ userid
I agree with you. I feel that this forgotten sindhi is infact a bhaiyya. Most of the times he is backing mqm. I myself am a sindhi and dont know of any other sindhi who would support mqm. As for AZ, he is not worthy of ppp leadership. if there are a few black sheep in a party then we dont call the whole party black. Just as if there are a few terrorists in pakistan we dont call all pakistanis terrorists. peoples party has people like aitzaz ahsan as well. The bhuttos gave their lives for pakistan. But yes, I agree with you that the root cause of the fall in the popularity of ppp is AZ and his self appointed, unelected stooge Rehman Malik. I am sure, a day will come when peoples part will get rid of such people and be once again the party it was in the time of ZA bhutto. A party we all can be proud of!
Salman Taaseer’s swearing in is a total Drama!
must watch
Salman Taseer trying to speak punjabi like Rangeela in “Insaan aur Gadha” hahahah
“Khalid maqbook ko khiraje tehSeen pesh karta hoon”
“Saara Punjab LaRkaana hai”
“Bilaawal ko Lahore say election laRwaiN gay”
– Salman Taseer, new Gov. of Punjab
@ F_S
you are so contradictory>>>
see ur comment in which u said NS and his joker brother ..then u said moo pa joota. then in ur next comment u said that u never said he is an idiot.
answer my questions and stop jumping here and there on issues.
@TK
LOL >>> where I can see this drama.
@TK
“Saara Punjab LaRkaana hai”
I think he meant “Punjab gaurmint ko lad-kaana hai”
@ ALL
Does someone has real information about this Analyst Nazir Naji??
To me he looks like an odd person. Either he donot have the whole info or he deliberately hide some info.
@savage: hahaha! I think u hit the nail on the head! “Freudian Slip” anyone?
There were 5 “kiraye kay jiyala’s” in the ceremony too who kept raising “Salman Taseer Zinda Bad” slogans along with the usual fare. (you can count them.. it’s the same 5 jiyalas.. one looks like Jahangir Badar’s cousin)
NS is playing politics…….NS recently was “Chief Guest” of inauguration of Salman Taseer’s Newpaper “Aaj Kaal” [Mujeeb Rehman Shami stated this fact in Kamran Khan recently]..where was NS’s”usool” when he chose to become a chief guest………..now he suddenly realized Salman Taseer is a devil……….then why did he go for the inauguration of News Paper onwed by a devil………NS is playing 90s politics……..this guy is pure drama……..
Here is the link confirming NS was chief guest of inauguration of Salman Taseer’s Newspaper….Aaj Kal….
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008218story_18-2-2008_pg7_14
No matter what we say, one thing is for sure he is big time supporter of “Enlightened Moderation”, when I’m bored I visit daily times Sunday edition for eyecandies. Too juicy pictures are found there.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/sunday/default.aspx?c=default.html
@Admin
About an year ago I saw Salman Taseer hosted by Begum Nawazish Ali, if you could find it in your archive and upload.
Ha!
I discovered something very unusual. Faiz Ahmad Faiz was Khaloo of Salman Taseer. Salman Taseer’s father was M.D. Taseer who was married to Cristobel who was a sister of Alys Faiz.
Funny thing is Salman Taseer doesn’t look half-white…He looks only criminal
@mbokhari
Not only that, his parents Nikah was conducted by Ilama Iqbal himself.
I think Rehman Malik and Salman Taseer are brothers, they just look too similar.
@savage,,
rehman malik, salman rushdi(taseer) zardari , minister of defense, foriegon minister, are all wihte sheeps of ppp, people know them since long time ago but even so they voted ppp. now wheather black sheeps or white sheeps rule on our awam, it is same and our awam is deserved for that kind of insult, our nation doesnot vote a party untill that party, insult the people, utnill that party CHITTER nahi marti to awam,,,,,,,,,,,,, it will use to happen untill pakistan people know , to whome shoud vote and why????????
does anyone wonder what happened to durrani aka ‘ghalat bayani’?
point being…stay on course…its the faujistanic-establishment one should watch!! infact…there should be a link detailing & updating the network ..and its commercial tentacles…and who is doing what in our name.
all that glitter is only gutter!
@mbokhari
no no dear, he does not look ciminal, a person can not come to ppp,s party untill he is fully professionla and perfect criminal, he is criminal,, dricola.
you can see that farooqa h nike, rehman malik, defense minister and foriegn minister , kahira ect, farzana raja, sherri rehman,, u see them well and tell me, do u find any kind of truth,sincerity, or strait thing in their talks, they always talk doubtly,, they never talk straight,, they talk ZIGZAGLY,
so if u are geneous, u can read their faces and then their charactor, thier ideas , thier will is clear with thier talks and face,
lohe ko loha kat ta he.
punjab me chun ke crims bohat ziada hotte hen, or jessa ke lohe ko loha hi kat ta he to in sab crimes ke lie JAROORI he ke aik criminal kisam ka admi laya jaye, to musharrf sab ke bad agar koi criminal he to wo SALMA RUSHDI, TASLEEM hi he,,
chun ke zardari sab bohat samjhdaar hen to uno ne president sab ke mashware se punjab ke crimes ko khatam kerne ke lie is criminal ka intakhab kia he jo ke aik acha iqdam he JAMJOORIAT ki janib,, isi tarha ki jamhooriat to chahte the na hamare awam , so usi tarha ki aa chuki he bas thora sa intazar or BASS,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Can someone do me a favor and Slap the incompetent webmaster of Daily Times silly ???
That STUPID SITE uses the WORST url structure in the world! I have NEVER been able to follow a link to that FUQQING SITE!
Not that I want to .. but for FU**SAKES! test a godd*mned link before you you post that sh!t! or use tinyurl or sumpin!
@ tk
cool down, still u are going to see the time when people will beating rehman malik or salma rushdi ( tasleem). u still have to bear that cruel scene……………..media zindabad,,
abi tak koi man ka bacha paida nahi hua jo media pe pabandian laga sake, bare bre aye lakin awam ke qadmo ke tale kuchle ge,,,,,,,, ye rehman malik kia ker le ga,
i salute, all jernolists with my heart and soul
@TK
>This is EXACTLY WHY we need our so called “democratic” parties run by a grass roots democratic process.
Absolutely right, you are spot on. Many people on this forum show a lot of maturity in political affairs which I don’t see that much at other fora in pakistan.
Why don’t we strive to come up with our own party which rises from grass-roots?
(oh you think, I am kidding!!)
hmm….err….if not grass roots …how about just grass? that should be easy enuff!!
besides dont they say “chursi kadi na marsi”
kidding..:)
@ admin
u banned me again
pleae give me the last chanse
please for god sack
please
only last time
thanks alot
@ admin
my brother please jamhooriat ki khatir aik chanse or do or muje likhne do na
pleae ap ko apni olad ki qasam please
No doubt, a wrong move…PPP is going to pay for it
@ sanora
sawal ye he ke agar che zardari sab ka nara judges ka nahi tha to kia agar 16 kror awam agar aik kam chahti he to kia us ka kerna jaroori nahi he ? ppp nahi ker sakti,
ab sawal ye he ke kia agar ppp logon ki arzoo ko poora nahi kerti, in ki izzat nahi kerti to kia mustaqbil me log ppp lo vote den ge??
to is ka jawab ye he ke , YES,
kiyun ke pakistan ke log usi ko vote den ge jo in ki be-izzati kren ge, jo in ko salam kerna to door ki bat he , khud ini ke kie hue salam ka jawab dena bi gawarra nahi kerte,,,,,,,,,,,,,,to log JAMHOORIAT ki khati dobar se bi ppp or pmln ko vote den ge,,,,,,,,,,
What usually happens to Mosquitoes who have sucked blood out of poor people:
picture speaks a thousand words….
http://statesman.com.pk/pictures/APP81-16Lahore.jpg
http://statesman.com.pk/pictures/APP85-16Lahore.jpg