it would be great to see how Lawyer would do on the street this time as every bar in stndh is control by PPP lawyer forum. In Paktoonkhwa most of bar is control by PPP lawyer forum, in Baluchistan except Quetta rest of bar are control by PPPlawyer forum, In punjab half of Bar are control by PPPlawyer forum. PPP worker who were the major force support Lawyer street would stay away this time around.

So now we have to see how many PMLN and ADMP or ATM with ATMP show up on the street. Because last time Qazi promise to NS that he would receive NS at Airport with IK and million of people did not metarilze.

Another lawyers/police/media clash coming soon. The nation will witness another tamasha from the 10th of June and lets see how this ‘PRO-Democracy’ regime handles them. I doubt that the treatment would be different from Mushy’s treatment afterall this man Zardari is Mushy no 2 in a disguise. Happy trouble my fellow countrymen.

Pakistan never got independence in 1947, conversely India did. They created institutions and developed democracy. We got corrupt Generals and feudal lords who are worse than any Butcher. Pakistan is ruled by Establishment and corrupt ISI and corrupt Generals. As long as Establishment is not cleaned and Corrupt Generals are not hanged, FORGET any good thing to happen in Pakistan.
Pakistan is still a country waiting for Messiah and We all Pakistanis are Negros for the most corrupt Establishment. We are NEGROS.

Yes this time all of us should go. It is our future the men in black are fighting for.

Pakistan ruled by corrupt generals, establishment and it’s corrupt political leaders, and everything in the past was leagalized by our beloved courts, but this time it is different the judges rose against the tyrant COAS, who proclaimed to be the President Of Pakistan. This offender of the constitution is helped by the so-called expert of the Constitution of Pakistan (Sharifuddin Pirzada-who has to be blamed of all the evils in Pakistan) and alsothe present AG -Malik Qayyum. The lawyers of Pakistan needs to be saluted for the struugle they have been doing to keep alive the Pakisatni Nation, which has lost all the hope. All the Pakistanis whether living in pakistan or abroad should support the lawyers of Pakistan. Keep hope with the lawyers in their struggle against the tyrant and so-called procalimed president of pakistan Mr. Mush. LONG LIVE THE LAWYERS OF PAKISTAN FOR THEIR STRUGGLE. WE THE PAKISTANIS LIVING ABROAD FEELS PROUD OF THEM.

Neither figures are important here nor who will come out this time and who will not but important is to see and to watch the intentions and the intensity of their Will to find the TRUTH AND JUSTICE not just only for themself but also for those who are by their words very fair, honest and bleave in justice but never apply these golden words on themself.

Lawyers are not playing a cricket match that some one should expect that how many spectators and the support they will receive this time
This movement is a never-ending struggle, a struggle for the rule of law, for justice peace and harmony, a stuggle for all of us , for this society, for this country, for the real and true democracy, to STOP the dictators to manipulate the constitution according to their will. And for this cause some one has to do this some one has to carry this heavy CROSS till the end. If our politicians they just do ego-centric politics and do not bleave to resolve their problems by themself and just waste their time back and forth for nothing and promise before the hole Nation and then deny then it is extremly important for these Lawyers to step in
and continue thier struggle from the same point where they had left.

And we all must appreciate them and should support them.

I feel its time for action not for words. We should all support long march and make our presence physically.
Zulm kay yaay Zabtay
Hum Nahi mantay.

Please guys lets all show Musharaf how much we hate him and how much we love our Chief justice….

I just wonder what if million peoples come on street…..it will surely change pakistan history ….

An ANSWER required, PLEASE.

1) Can somebody, ANYBODY, please, elucidate / enlighten/ educate, in these columns, for ‘ dumb-wit ‘ Pakistanis,like me,as to, WHAT COMPELS the
‘ mightiest ‘ LAWYER’S, POLITICIANS, MEDIA /OPINION- LEADERS, from taking A PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE, in their present struggle, for RESTORATION OF THE DEPOSED JUDGES ? IS IT necessary,TO ‘ ACTIVELY’
participate, in LONG MARCHES ?

2) All these ‘ mightiest ‘ BRAINS & PERSONALITIES ‘ SEEM to have tried their
BEST, & everything ‘ UNDER THE SUN ‘ but STILL, seem, NOT to have been able to ‘ BUDGE ‘ ( move slightly ) their one-man enemy, ( that we all know, who, ) & who seems to have a STRONG RESOLVE to stay in the ‘ Power ‘ for another ‘ donkey ‘ years.

3) There MAYBE, many, many readers of these columns, who may have direct
or an indirect access, to any of such ‘ mightiest brains ‘ & who, after getting
in touch with ANY of them, can GET BACK with an ANSWER, which however
‘ FLIMSY an EXCUSE’ ever, ‘ CRAFTED ‘ or even ‘ FORGED ‘ ? Take it for granted, It will still be taken / accepted as an ANSWER !.

4) Before, going any further, our worthy readers, our WISE-MEN, REMIND of Mahatama Mohandas Gandhi’s ‘ SECRET, ‘ i,e; of HIS PASSIVE MOVEMENT, in the form of NON-COOPERATION / Civil Disobedience, which, according to Gandhi-loving WESTERN AUTHORS / BIOGRAPHERS, REALLY ‘ WORKED WONDERS ‘ in his, pre-independence STRUGGLE, against the British rulers of former India, & which HELPED in SPEEDING-UP their early withdrawal, from old India,after over 200 years or their rule over the the sub-continent.

5) Let’s SUPPOSE, that if, Gandhi’s- sole, PASSIVE, struggle / movement was successful, & which is said to have culminated into, Independence, then WHAT ‘S STOPPING our people, from applying tha same, method for evicting,Muaharaf from his illegal power ?

6) May I ask that, is it THEN, NECESSARY, TO COME ON, TO THE STREETS, in PROTEST ? Again then ; is it NECESSARY to be beaten / thrashed, first, by
batons of Police/ Rangers / Frontier Corps / Frontier Constabulary ;& then subsequently being SHOT TO DEATH , by their VERY BULLETS ?

7) Where’s the BRAVERY, then, in being beaten shot, to DEATH, IN PUBLIC? DOES NOT THEN ,WISDOM LIE in an act, where, you CAUSE, MINIMUM LOSS, to yourself, BUT, MAXIMUM LOSS to the ‘ enemy & his forces. ‘
WISE- men further say, that In a PASSIVE MOVEMENT, all what , the so-called LEADERS, will have to do, is to make a NATIONAL CALL to the PEOPLE, TO, NOT to come into the streets ; NOT to STRIKE WORK ; NOT to come out in simmering / boiling heat for a LONG MARCH ! )

9) All they have to do begin-with, wise citizens say, is TO STOP making payment of their utility bills, followed by non-payment of revenues / taxes, etc ; on account of which, the govt of the day, manages, salaries / expenditures of govt / non-govt functionaries, deptts, etc; or RUNS the GOVT.

10) Thus, THEY OPINE, that you can cause the Powers-To-Be, to listen to you, WITHOUT, CAUSING, ANY LOSS TO HUMAN LIVES / OR ANY LOSS to, any PUBLIC or PRIVATE, property ? A SILENT REVOLUTION, they say ?

11) Can ANYBODY get in TOUCH, with Mr. Aitezaz Ahsan, Justice (R) Wajih-ud-din Ahmad, Nawaz Sharif, ANY LEADER,etc ; & provide ANSWERS ? They also opine, that the people came to the streets, from Khyber to Karachi, to support the LONG MARCH of Justice Ch. Iftikhaar ; hence they are of the firm opinion, that if such a call is given, based on Gandhi’s principles, THEN, they say, that
‘ THE WHOLE NATION WiLL RISE ! ‘

I have a very strong feeling that lawyers movement will not be successful because there is a clear rift b/w them and also Mush is getting stonger by each day.

come on …………Men in Black…….dats what im talking abt…………men in black are the future of pakistan……….come on…………dikha do

I wonder why have they choosen June 10. It is still three weeks ahead. Why did they not choose an earlier date? Are they expecting some poistive development within this time? Or, are they naively giving time to establishment to prepare its response?

@Snrctz
You have good points…however, I am not sure that any of the passive plans you are suggesting would work - not taht I think the looooong march will work.

@ibnerazi

good question. add to that AA Not running on ppp ticket…as announced in ongoing press conf.

There would be a definite try to sabotage the movement and to make it controversial.

Planners of this suspected sabotage are off course Mush Rehman malik and Zardari.

Lawyers,APDM,PMLN and PPP would suffer .

Now how this would happen and will be reacted is important.

The two boats (on which Aitezaz Ahsan is riding) are diverting very quickly.

Q League Forward block is still in the game on N’s side:

http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/may2008-daily/18-05-2008/up34.gif

I say if N is willing to accept MQatilM after “Taubah and CoD” then why treat Q league like the red-headed stepchild???

I still think the road to Islamabad goes through Gujarat… (but those two will have to do a public Taubah and apologise to the nation for what they did in support of moshe )

AAJ TV Documentary: Judicial Crisis in Pakistan (aired on 12May2008)
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kSJSbFUrh00&feature=related

According to a recent report in Jang IA did not say a word on Lawyers issue in the recent party meeting of PPPP. Hasn’t the nation already given enough time to Zardari on the judges’ issue?

I for one am disgusted with this new deadline. The nation has to yet wait another 23 days for the restoration of judges (when it was a matter of a few minutes when this government took power) while there are crisis of food and electricity shortage and law and order yet to be dealt with.

Why should the nation wait while Zardari fine-tunes the articles of NRO?

I can’t help thinking that this is just IA trying to buy more time for AZ and himself so that he doesn’t have to choose between Lawyers and PPPP. He will be praying very hard in the next 23 days for a miracle that won’t occur.

In my view time was up for Zardari on the 30th of April and then on the 12th May. All what’s happened between these dates is a PPPP shift towards MQM and Moshe. PPPP has said one thing and done another.

The next 23 days will be no different. Zardari and Mush will use this time to prepare and reassemble. It will also give America time to strategise.

They are already offering a 200 megawatt mobile electricity plant. But I wonder, at what cost?

So in conclusion, I say Bull….hit to this new dead line and shame to IA.

I say Charge NOW!! Before it’s too late

I

although unrelated to this topic, i just heard Prime Minister Gillani meeting Bush in Egypt.. he said
“And our government is committed to fight for terrorism and extremism; it is against the humanity, it’s against the world, and I have lost my own great leader, Benazir Bhutto, because of terrorism. ”

is it just me or does any else to find any thing wrong with that statement…?

@m4533d

so you think todays press conf. by Aitezaz Ahsan (IA?) was a gimmick to cover up for the delayed march call for 10 june ??

interesting hypothesis…

@Ahmed: This is what happened to the Canadian PM when he first met the bush:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/littlemisskool/102449776/

The man’s stupidity is contagious !

There are very few groups in Pakistan who have “Numbers” for street power and who have shown these “numbers” again n again. These are PPP, Jamat Islami and MQM (AKA Black Cow) Other than these Human Right activists have been successful in bringing some “numbers” on street.. less in count but more recognized faces. PMLN has numbers but they are not street oriented and the rest of the parties can only bring people in tens not in thousands.

It is sure that Aitezaz Ahsan is in a big crossroad and he has to make a clear stand. He is trying to let the time clearified his position which is a cleaver move. BUT he will never ever leave PPP because he is a politician and he knows that in order for his coming generations to be influential, he needs to have a solid political backing which no one else can provide better than PPP.
BTW dont start worshipping Aitezaz Ahsan yet. You have to check his tone and selection of words recently to see where he stands. Just watch his “words” for salman taseer in the may 16 interview and it will tell you every thing about him. Dont forget he was the same person who as a minister (interior ?) helped Indian Govt when it provided the lists of Sikhs from the Khalistan Movement. Our people are so naive that they simply forget the past and start worshiping these people’s calculated actions.

There are clear cracks within Lawyer groups. The power we saw was due to PPP and Jamat Islami backed lawyer groups along with some PMLN lawyers. If half of these Jiala Laweyrs will not show up, the movement will have a weaken position.

it is yet to be seen how many jyala lawyers distant themselves from PPP for this cause.
And remember it is not the lawyers (100000 i.e., less than voters of a Mutahida qatil movement in one constituency) who will make the movement a success but the 180 million people of Pakistan.

@Khafqah

Im my view he is just practicing on “Kuch do Kuch lo”. He has said he wont be running. If he wants me to think that he has made a big sacrifice for the lawyers movement then he should have waited till he got the ticket. Hypothetically what’s stopping me from thinking that he wasn’t gonna get a ticket any way?

Im my view, IA has faltered and by delaying the movement he has compromised it to some degree.

I agree with Riddle when he says:

……………………………..is sure that Aitezaz Ahsan is in a big crossroad and he has to make a clear stand. He is trying to let the time clearified his position which is a cleaver move. BUT he will never ever leave PPP because he is a politician and he knows that in order for his coming generations to be influential, he needs to have a solid political backing which no one else can provide better than PPP………………….

Didn’t Muhammed Ali Jinah leave congress once it was exposed?

@kafka8
Only, I disagree about the cleverness of the move.

Sorry about the name

aoa

@ this long march/long date is asking for them to be house arrested. they are only giving time for rehman malik and co to make this a failed long march.

@m5433d

as i said…your hypothesis is thought provoking. i have myself questioned this delay in earlier posts.

nevertheless, i am hoping the fear is unfounded.

@m5433d
@aftab
@kafka8
About AA, I agree. I will even go a little further and ask why quit now? If he had to quit the race he should have done it a lot earlier. Could it be he was informed he was not getting the ticket and this is the excuse he came up with to not only do some face-saving for himself, but to behave live a loyal puppy/pipliya till the end????

Certainly delaying the start of the long march for so long stinks and again I fear it was done more to help PPP than to help the lawyers’ movement.

And seeing this report ( “Package on judges within a fortnight”) by Ansar Abbasi confirms my suspicions and I ask will there really be a long march June 10 with the PPP package coming out around June 2? I think AA has already sabotaged the movement. He has pick Zardari over Judges and that is despite having been sp@t on by Zardari many times. I am really starting to dislike Aitzaz, I am sorry to say. Everything he is doing is confirming my fears.

Re: that Ansar Abbasi Item, all I can say is:

WE WUZ ROBBED! :(

@nota, thanking for confirming my writing almost one year. Do you that lahore Bar yesterday past the resolution against Long March. I do not think that they will get single lawyer from Sindh who would join Long March.

What most the people is not understanding about where Pakistan stand today is that people of Pakistan has decided not to hand over Pakistan to JI or JUI.

Re: PML-N’s “Still with Coalition” stance, especially after reading the Ansar Abbasi piece.

I fail to fathom what the reason might be behind “supporting the coaltion for the fear that Zardari might go and sit in Moshe’s lap” … because it seems He’s going to go sit in moshe’s lap anyways ???

The only thing this approach will do is give him more time to stab NS & company more times in the face and then say.. “oooh! I’m sorry! did that sharpened pencil in your eye hurt?”

Treachery! Plain and simple!

@kinnare
First of all I hope I am wrong. Secondly please DON’T LIE by saying “lahore Bar yesterday past the resolution against Long March”. I know it might be Latif Khosa’s outfit that passed the “resolution” but that is what is expected from that scvmbag but his outfit is NOT the ‘Lahore Bar’ but Latif Khosa’s outfit “People’s Lawyers’ Forum(PLF)” that has — surprise surprise — his son the vice president.

And if you were being honest you would have said that the only TWO lawyers opposing the resolution and proposals for launching the long march for the restoration of the November 2 were Pervez Inayat Malik and Khurram Latif Khosa of the PLF.

@nota, No comments

@kinnare
“@nota, No comments”

Of course…..

From PLF news conference:
- (PLF) will only accept those decisions of the PBC that are made in national interest and will protest against those decisions which it deems are against national interest (”national interest would be defined by the parliament” — read Zardari).

- They said that the lawyers should resolve the judges’ issue by negotiations. They said that the PPP had a clear stance on the judges’ issue: that it wanted to restore the sacked judges without disturbing the lot appointed under the Provisional Constitution Order (PCO).

- PPP would restore the unconstitutionally sacked judges by bringing amendments in the constitution.

- political parties like the Jamaat- e- Islami and Thereek-e-Insaf of trying to create hostility between the PPP and the lawyers.

- When Daily Times mentioned that the PPP lacks a two- thirds majority in the Senate to pass a constitutional package; they replied that the PPP had the required number of seats in the Senate. They ignored the fact that PPP Co-chairperson Asif Zardari had reiterated that they did not have the necessary two- thirds majority in both Houses to impeach President Pervez Musharraf.

- PPP did not have a magic wand to solve all the issues within minutes that it had inherited from a dictatorship spanning over eight years.

- PPP lawyers’ convention would be held on May 24th in Lahore.

@ ibnrazi

1) Thanks a lot, for your feedback / comments.

2) I am NOT SUGGESTING, any PASSIVE line of action.

3) I think, the LONG MARCH, MAY or MAY-NOT, be USEFUL / FRUITFUL, in these exessively hot summer days, keeping in mind the above-45 Degs ‘ F ‘ Temp of Multan, even during early hours of the morning, ( from where it’s most ikely to commence.)

4) Notwithstanding / despite / regardless, of the LONG MARCH, WHAT I THINK, IS, ONLY TO TRY, JUST TRY, & GIVE A CHANCE ; YES , ONLY A CHANCE, to ‘ AHIMSA, ‘ the ‘ Buddhist / Hindu / Jain ( st ) DOCTRINE , ‘ that all forms of life are sacred, & urging the avoidance of violence. ‘

5) Is there anything WRONG, in NOT, TRYING to HURT & INJURE ; NOT ONLY yourselves ; but OTHERS TOO ; & STILL ACHIEVE SUCCESS, IN YOUR AIM &
PURPOSE

I share the comments on this forum about the delay in Long March till June 10 but I hesitate to doubt AA quickly.
The reason is this: perhaps there is a political aspect to decision making within the Bar Council. Let us not forget what AA said about the decision to participate in the main elections. He has said that he had written a letter to the Council urging them to participate but his letter was not even read in the meeting (he was house arrested). If this is true, it clearly indicates that President Bar of the Council is not the main force. So, one wonders how the date of June 10 was arrived at - what compromises were made with PPP lawyers who may have been opposing the long march at all.

Be it as it may be, I think long march is unlikely to succeed and will not have the moral high ground now. Why?
After all, now the lawyers are up against an elected parliament. Last year they were fighting a dictator and that alone gave them moral upper hand. This year it is different. Even the international perception will be different.

Another point is that with people’ frustration very high on other matters such as electricity, the long march can easily get out of hand. it can turn into a law and order situation very easily and that will destroy lawyer’s movement completely.

I am not sure that enough attention was paid to the changed context of today while making the decision.

I, therefore, think taht it would have been better that before a call for long march some other tactics were used.

For example, the leadership of lawyer’s should have thrown a challenge to PPP for a public live televised debate on the issue so that it becomes clear to people who is standing for what. This could have been put as a democratic process and right of the people to explore isuses in public sphere.

Second, they should have resumed CJ’s visits to different bar councils. These visits would have served as a barometer for public support for the issue.

Only if these measures fail should they have opted for Long march.

From the Ansar Abbasi article linked above:
“One of Zardari’s close associates complained that the media was not highlighting the good work of the party…”We have successfully brought to an end the trend of suicide bombings in the country”
Right!

The PPP source also asked why the media was silent over the return to its original owners of the Sharifs’ Model Town residence, which was taken over by the government in 2000 and was used as a shelter for special children.
What is wrong with returning a home to their righful owners?

“You just wait and see what we are going to do in the next fortnight,” the source said.
We already know what you are going to do. “the PPP would then press for the Fazlur Rehman formula” tells us plenty as does “it wants to allow the incumbent Chief Justice Abdul Hameed Dogar to have at least two years as chief justice once Justice Chaudhry retires. These two highly controversial constitutional changes would be part of a comprehensive constitutional package being prepared by Law Minister Farooq Naek.”

Fixed link:
Right!

@ibnrazi
“For example, the leadership of lawyer’s should have thrown a challenge to PPP for a public live televised debate on the issue so that it becomes clear to people who is standing for what. This could have been put as a democratic process and right of the people to explore isuses in public sphere.

Second, they should have resumed CJ’s visits to different bar councils. These visits would have served as a barometer for public support for the issue.

Only if these measures fail should they have opted for Long march.”

I think there has been more than enough “public live televised debate” on the issue. Second, CJ is already scheduled to visit different bar councils before June 10. And don’t forget PPP’s decision is expected by June 2.

A great story from Rauf Kalasar

Admin give it space at front page

http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/may2008-daily/19-05-2008/main3.htm

This issue has become very very difficult in presence of Mushti The Dog and Zardari the Snake Both have taken sworn not to restore Iftekhar Chaudhry it seems like Mushi the Dog and all his sons and Zardari the Snake with all his dirty eggs are committed to destroy this country and suck more and more blood of Pakistani by prolonging this issue and keep the inflation rate high and high to fill up there pockets i don,t know how deep there pockets are and how long will it take to fill up …but again our responsiblility is to join the other forces no matter which party they belong to and i have the feelings that Jiyalas will also join these forces because there new leader who have hijacked there party is showing his true color and it is better for all the jiyalas to know about there new leaders intentions i as a common man and citizen of karachi will be giving my full support to lawyers and those political parties who are standing shoulder to shoulder with Chief justice and all honorable illegally dismissed judges…..May Allah Give them Great Success In This Movement For Better Future Of Pakistan ….Aameen

Its only time to support the Mr RIGHT if we missed the train of restoration of people’s power then no body can put back the gini of army mafia into US bottle.US is facing defeats in all fronts but as our serving generals are for sale always and ready to serve on US orders on all costs so unarmed people is facing lot of difficulties in restoring common man rights in our system,This movement or long march would actually support the people who really want to see Pakistan a better place to live.This long march would tell US and its touts like mush ,zardari or shaukat aziz that we also want system to live accordingly the norms of justice for all.PPP quite obvoiusly is not interested in any justice system as it has completely cornered the investigation of Benzair who was murdered in daylight sorrounded by thousands of her jiyalas.Seeing UN for probes is just a joke or might be bluff card for Genral Mush for haunting him. nothing more than it.If zardari want to change the system by implementing NRO then we have to inform him that this isPakistan’s traditonal style of ruling mafia and we are quite familar with such so called reconcilition procedure.CJP iIftikhar has already laid a foundation stone of new building for changing Pakistan and we have to just put brick on brick for creating a wall of Pakistan that would nt allow corrupt characters and US interests to profilerate in our homeland again.

@ Kinnare

Don’t worry about democrat’s a/k/a SOB (Same Old Bakwas)….you don’t need to answer SOB………