Comments on: http://pkpolitics.com/2008/06/02/%e2%80%9czardari-wants-dependent-judges%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%93-itezaz-ahsan%e2%80%99s-statement-to-new-york-times/ pkpolitics.com Wed, 3 Dec 2008 22:08:13 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Umer Farooq http://pkpolitics.com/2008/06/02/%e2%80%9czardari-wants-dependent-judges%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%93-itezaz-ahsan%e2%80%99s-statement-to-new-york-times/#comment-89957 Umer Farooq Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:31:41 +0000 http://pkpolitics.com/2008/06/02/%e2%80%9czardari-wants-dependent-judges%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%93-itezaz-ahsan%e2%80%99s-statement-to-new-york-times/#comment-89957 @saqibtahir: So why doesn't he run and get elected? What was that, Ch. Shujaat also felt that he could never be defeated? Oh thats right, look what happened to him. I'm not saying Zardari WOULD lose, BUT, what I am saying is that Zardari should butt out of politics if he isn't going to seek an election. I have been understanding of both Zardari and the Sharifs for not being elected on the 18th because there papers were denied, however, now there is a by-election coming up, and whom so ever does not run in the election, should not be making major decisions for the country. I don't care for any of the parties really, I'm a western raised Pakistani who wants to see a better Pakistan, and I seriously don't know enough of the past histories of the different parties, so I'm not even going to attempt to discuss the past issues which I had no "hosh" for. But what I do know is that the way things are going right now, we are in trouble. Yes, Zardari is currently unelected like NS, SS, IK, and Qazi, however none of these four are going to the ISI and being told state secrets. Gilani went and was briefed, that was good, he is our PM, but why did Zardari tag along, he took no oath. As far as the Chief Justice of Pakistan goes, what charges are against him for which he wasn't cleared? Now here is the sticking point. I recall, Mohtrama saying, before she was assassinated (not right before, but in the short while before), that....what was it.....oh yeah, something along the lines of "Iftikhar Chaudry is my Chief Justice, and will remain my Chief Justice" (pardon me but I don't remember the phrasing exactly, but that is the gist of it). Now correct me if I am wrong, but she never changed that stance before she was murdered. That stance, was also the stance of the PPP. So please, tell me, which of the two following scenarios are correct: A) BB was wrong, and SHE was playing politics like you are blaming NS of doing now with the judges issue, and she was just supporting him for votes and public opinion? or B) BB was for the restoration of all the judges, and now people like you, and AZ are twisting many of those words and trying to forget that she said that? Kind of a double standard don't you think? If AZ can claim the charges against him are bogus, why can't every other pakistani? Rather than going through the REGULAR laws, and REGULAR courts, why do we give him special treatment and do like you said, clear him using SPECIAL courts and SPECIAL laws? Kiya Zardari aasmaan say utra hai kai us kai liye har cheez khasoosi ho? On an ending note, your right about one thing, "civilized" nations don't take to the streets (riots and what not, protests and marches, of course they do), but they also don't keep traitors around and let them continue to be President. They don't have serfs working on their manors, or slaves on their plantations, or ghareebs on their vaderas. So the question is, are we a civilized nation? @saqibtahir:

So why doesn’t he run and get elected?
What was that, Ch. Shujaat also felt that he could never be defeated? Oh thats right, look what happened to him. I’m not saying Zardari WOULD lose, BUT, what I am saying is that Zardari should butt out of politics if he isn’t going to seek an election.

I have been understanding of both Zardari and the Sharifs for not being elected on the 18th because there papers were denied, however, now there is a by-election coming up, and whom so ever does not run in the election, should not be making major decisions for the country.

I don’t care for any of the parties really, I’m a western raised Pakistani who wants to see a better Pakistan, and I seriously don’t know enough of the past histories of the different parties, so I’m not even going to attempt to discuss the past issues which I had no “hosh” for. But what I do know is that the way things are going right now, we are in trouble.

Yes, Zardari is currently unelected like NS, SS, IK, and Qazi, however none of these four are going to the ISI and being told state secrets. Gilani went and was briefed, that was good, he is our PM, but why did Zardari tag along, he took no oath.

As far as the Chief Justice of Pakistan goes, what charges are against him for which he wasn’t cleared?

Now here is the sticking point. I recall, Mohtrama saying, before she was assassinated (not right before, but in the short while before), that….what was it…..oh yeah, something along the lines of “Iftikhar Chaudry is my Chief Justice, and will remain my Chief Justice” (pardon me but I don’t remember the phrasing exactly, but that is the gist of it). Now correct me if I am wrong, but she never changed that stance before she was murdered. That stance, was also the stance of the PPP. So please, tell me, which of the two following scenarios are correct:

A) BB was wrong, and SHE was playing politics like you are blaming NS of doing now with the judges issue, and she was just supporting him for votes and public opinion?

or

B) BB was for the restoration of all the judges, and now people like you, and AZ are twisting many of those words and trying to forget that she said that?

Kind of a double standard don’t you think?

If AZ can claim the charges against him are bogus, why can’t every other pakistani? Rather than going through the REGULAR laws, and REGULAR courts, why do we give him special treatment and do like you said, clear him using SPECIAL courts and SPECIAL laws?

Kiya Zardari aasmaan say utra hai kai us kai liye har cheez khasoosi ho?

On an ending note, your right about one thing, “civilized” nations don’t take to the streets (riots and what not, protests and marches, of course they do), but they also don’t keep traitors around and let them continue to be President. They don’t have serfs working on their manors, or slaves on their plantations, or ghareebs on their vaderas.

So the question is, are we a civilized nation?

]]> By: Malek http://pkpolitics.com/2008/06/02/%e2%80%9czardari-wants-dependent-judges%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%93-itezaz-ahsan%e2%80%99s-statement-to-new-york-times/#comment-89953 Malek Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:22:14 +0000 http://pkpolitics.com/2008/06/02/%e2%80%9czardari-wants-dependent-judges%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%93-itezaz-ahsan%e2%80%99s-statement-to-new-york-times/#comment-89953 there were previously 2 parties who opposed mush's impeachment. MQM and PPP now the third one has joined in! http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=46779 guess who? of course PMLQ!!! khooob guzrae gi jab mil bathain gai devane do! there were previously 2 parties who opposed mush’s impeachment. MQM and PPP now the third one has joined in!
http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=46779

guess who?

of course PMLQ!!!

khooob guzrae gi jab mil bathain gai devane do!

]]> By: Malek http://pkpolitics.com/2008/06/02/%e2%80%9czardari-wants-dependent-judges%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%93-itezaz-ahsan%e2%80%99s-statement-to-new-york-times/#comment-89950 Malek Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:13:42 +0000 http://pkpolitics.com/2008/06/02/%e2%80%9czardari-wants-dependent-judges%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%93-itezaz-ahsan%e2%80%99s-statement-to-new-york-times/#comment-89950 @saqibtahir as regards the last sentence of your message the only problem is that there is not much right as per PPP policy @saqibtahir
as regards the last sentence of your message
the only problem is that there is not much right as per PPP policy

]]> By: saqibtahir http://pkpolitics.com/2008/06/02/%e2%80%9czardari-wants-dependent-judges%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%93-itezaz-ahsan%e2%80%99s-statement-to-new-york-times/#comment-89947 saqibtahir Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:01:10 +0000 http://pkpolitics.com/2008/06/02/%e2%80%9czardari-wants-dependent-judges%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%93-itezaz-ahsan%e2%80%99s-statement-to-new-york-times/#comment-89947 ISI illegal funding to fom IJI is such a unique case of corruption that not only individuals like NS, SS, Qazi can go to jail but also all IJI parties can face a ban. IJI parties are 'corrupt' and can face ban under existing laws of the country. PPP haters can hurl what ever insults they want but the fact is PPP won all fair elections in the country since 1970. Zardari should not accept any dictation from any loser. He shod do what is right as per PPP policy. ISI illegal funding to fom IJI is such a unique case of corruption that not only individuals like NS, SS, Qazi can go to jail but also all IJI parties can face a ban. IJI parties are ‘corrupt’ and can face ban under existing laws of the country.

PPP haters can hurl what ever insults they want but the fact is PPP won all fair elections in the country since 1970. Zardari should not accept any dictation from any loser. He shod do what is right as per PPP policy.

]]> By: saqibtahir http://pkpolitics.com/2008/06/02/%e2%80%9czardari-wants-dependent-judges%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%93-itezaz-ahsan%e2%80%99s-statement-to-new-york-times/#comment-89945 saqibtahir Tue, 03 Jun 2008 13:55:15 +0000 http://pkpolitics.com/2008/06/02/%e2%80%9czardari-wants-dependent-judges%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%93-itezaz-ahsan%e2%80%99s-statement-to-new-york-times/#comment-89945 @Ummar Farooq, Cannot you see? 1) zardari is as unelected as NS or SS, IK and Qazi. He holds better credentials than anu other political leader because he is leader of the ruling party. Getting elected is not a issue for him. He can get elected unopposed just like SS. 2) Zardari is not using assembly as his rubber stamp like NS did pre-Oct 12. He is trying to build consensus on vital issues like a true leader. On the other hand NS is playing same old dirty game he played in 1988. Has he learned any lesson from past? Blind confontation is no solution. Civilized nations resolve their issues in parliament not streets. If senses didn't prevail then I see a situation like Bengladesh where confrontation led to wraping of parliament and now all party leaders are in jail (including pious JI) facing corruption charges. Zardarii has been proved innocent after 12 years of prosecution by special courts under special laws. NS, Qazi and Jus Iftikhar have not proven innocent yet. Cases against them can revive easily. If Justice Dogar start listening Asghar Khan's famous ISI-IJI case, NS and Qazi, Hameed Gul, Aslam Beg can easly go to jail because all the records are with SC already. IJI funding case is unique in a manner that here Parties and individuals both are involved in open corruptions. Most APDM parties, generalas and many leading anti-PPP journalists can go to jail for getting secret funds from ISI to tarnish PPP image. Hear Hear, the most corrupt people in Pakistan are Mullas and Generals who always worked for US and took bribes on every deal under the sun. @Ummar Farooq,
Cannot you see? 1) zardari is as unelected as NS or SS, IK and Qazi. He holds better credentials than anu other political leader because he is leader of the ruling party. Getting elected is not a issue for him. He can get elected unopposed just like SS.
2) Zardari is not using assembly as his rubber stamp like NS did pre-Oct 12. He is trying to build consensus on vital issues like a true leader. On the other hand NS is playing same old dirty game he played in 1988. Has he learned any lesson from past?

Blind confontation is no solution. Civilized nations resolve their issues in parliament not streets.

If senses didn’t prevail then I see a situation like Bengladesh where confrontation led to wraping of parliament and now all party leaders are in jail (including pious JI) facing corruption charges.

Zardarii has been proved innocent after 12 years of prosecution by special courts under special laws. NS, Qazi and Jus Iftikhar have not proven innocent yet. Cases against them can revive easily. If Justice Dogar start listening Asghar Khan’s famous ISI-IJI case, NS and Qazi, Hameed Gul, Aslam Beg can easly go to jail because all the records are with SC already. IJI funding case is unique in a manner that here Parties and individuals both are involved in open corruptions. Most APDM parties, generalas and many leading anti-PPP journalists can go to jail for getting secret funds from ISI to tarnish PPP image.

Hear Hear, the most corrupt people in Pakistan are Mullas and Generals who always worked for US and took bribes on every deal under the sun.

]]> By: sweetad http://pkpolitics.com/2008/06/02/%e2%80%9czardari-wants-dependent-judges%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%93-itezaz-ahsan%e2%80%99s-statement-to-new-york-times/#comment-89893 sweetad Tue, 03 Jun 2008 08:35:10 +0000 http://pkpolitics.com/2008/06/02/%e2%80%9czardari-wants-dependent-judges%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%93-itezaz-ahsan%e2%80%99s-statement-to-new-york-times/#comment-89893 Mr.10% is now Mr.100% ...simply.... Mr.10% is now Mr.100% …simply….

]]> By: Umer Farooq http://pkpolitics.com/2008/06/02/%e2%80%9czardari-wants-dependent-judges%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%93-itezaz-ahsan%e2%80%99s-statement-to-new-york-times/#comment-89842 Umer Farooq Tue, 03 Jun 2008 03:23:49 +0000 http://pkpolitics.com/2008/06/02/%e2%80%9czardari-wants-dependent-judges%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%93-itezaz-ahsan%e2%80%99s-statement-to-new-york-times/#comment-89842 @Paf123, saqitahir Hear Hear! Let's support democracy and the parliament by having a non-elected (to the NA or a PA) leader of a political party make the most crucial decisions of our nation and continue Musharraf's tradition of a rubber stamp PM. That definitely sounds like good governance and democracy to me! Don't you agree? *rolls eyes* @Paf123, saqitahir

Hear Hear!
Let’s support democracy and the parliament by having a non-elected (to the NA or a PA) leader of a political party make the most crucial decisions of our nation and continue Musharraf’s tradition of a rubber stamp PM. That definitely sounds like good governance and democracy to me!
Don’t you agree?

*rolls eyes*

]]> By: Paf123 http://pkpolitics.com/2008/06/02/%e2%80%9czardari-wants-dependent-judges%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%93-itezaz-ahsan%e2%80%99s-statement-to-new-york-times/#comment-89715 Paf123 Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:47:50 +0000 http://pkpolitics.com/2008/06/02/%e2%80%9czardari-wants-dependent-judges%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%93-itezaz-ahsan%e2%80%99s-statement-to-new-york-times/#comment-89715 @ saqibtahir "On the other hand NS is a convicted criminal by the same judges he is trying to restore. If he is innocent then the judges are criminal and if judges are honest he is a criminal. You cannot have both ways." well said....NS is not sincere with the lawyers' movement...he is doing it because he feels it is a popular decision to supprot lawyers' movment...especially with his voters.......NS lacks leadership skills because easiest thing for a leader is to take a popular decision rather than a correct decision...correct decision at this time is support democracy and the parliament...and let the parliament decide this issue, which represents the people of Pakistan..........let the institutions work that have been severly damaged by Mush during the last 9 years.......let the parliament find a solution of the judges issue and stregthen that institutions as well..... BTW-- Mutwalas/Piyalas I know your response...you going to label me a "Jiyala" and start abusing AZ, BB and others...please write if you have something else to say.............. @ saqibtahir

“On the other hand NS is a convicted criminal by the same judges he is trying to restore. If he is innocent then the judges are criminal and if judges are honest he is a criminal. You cannot have both ways.”

well said….NS is not sincere with the lawyers’ movement…he is doing it because he feels it is a popular decision to supprot lawyers’ movment…especially with his voters…….NS lacks leadership skills because easiest thing for a leader is to take a popular decision rather than a correct decision…correct decision at this time is support democracy and the parliament…and let the parliament decide this issue, which represents the people of Pakistan……….let the institutions work that have been severly damaged by Mush during the last 9 years…….let the parliament find a solution of the judges issue and stregthen that institutions as well…..

BTW– Mutwalas/Piyalas I know your response…you going to label me a “Jiyala” and start abusing AZ, BB and others…please write if you have something else to say…………..

]]> By: Paf123 http://pkpolitics.com/2008/06/02/%e2%80%9czardari-wants-dependent-judges%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%93-itezaz-ahsan%e2%80%99s-statement-to-new-york-times/#comment-89709 Paf123 Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:38:16 +0000 http://pkpolitics.com/2008/06/02/%e2%80%9czardari-wants-dependent-judges%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%93-itezaz-ahsan%e2%80%99s-statement-to-new-york-times/#comment-89709 AA took his statement back and asked NYT to publish an explaination of his comments................let's see if the reporter back tracks from his story..................AA has made a bad politcal move........as lawyers movement will lose its steam...especially if PML(N) comes on board for the constitutional package.......... AA took his statement back and asked NYT to publish an explaination of his comments…………….let’s see if the reporter back tracks from his story………………AA has made a bad politcal move……..as lawyers movement will lose its steam…especially if PML(N) comes on board for the constitutional package……….

]]> By: saqibtahir http://pkpolitics.com/2008/06/02/%e2%80%9czardari-wants-dependent-judges%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%93-itezaz-ahsan%e2%80%99s-statement-to-new-york-times/#comment-89624 saqibtahir Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:02:59 +0000 http://pkpolitics.com/2008/06/02/%e2%80%9czardari-wants-dependent-judges%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%93-itezaz-ahsan%e2%80%99s-statement-to-new-york-times/#comment-89624 Aitezaz belongs to PPP. He was always loyal to PPP. It is great of Zardari that he tolterates Aitezaz's dissent in party. That is what democracy is all about. Such dissent is not possible in any other party including NS, IK and JI. Aitezaz always considered cases against Bhuttos as fabricated and he is on record for that. That was his stand for last 12 years. On the other hand NS is a convicted criminal by the same judges he is trying to restore. If he is innocent then the judges are criminal and if judges are honest he is a criminal. You cannot have both ways. Bhuttos repeteatedly suffered the bonefire of EHTESAB for alst 30 years. Not a single case has been proved against them despite the fact prosecution and judiaciary was filled with anti-PPP bias. Aitezaz is a honorable person and he did a honorable thing by issueing a public denial. I hope and wish that he will stay in PPP. That is the place he ideologicaly belong. Aitezaz belongs to PPP. He was always loyal to PPP. It is great of Zardari that he tolterates Aitezaz’s dissent in party. That is what democracy is all about. Such dissent is not possible in any other party including NS, IK and JI.

Aitezaz always considered cases against Bhuttos as fabricated and he is on record for that. That was his stand for last 12 years.

On the other hand NS is a convicted criminal by the same judges he is trying to restore. If he is innocent then the judges are criminal and if judges are honest he is a criminal. You cannot have both ways.

Bhuttos repeteatedly suffered the bonefire of EHTESAB for alst 30 years. Not a single case has been proved against them despite the fact prosecution and judiaciary was filled with anti-PPP bias.

Aitezaz is a honorable person and he did a honorable thing by issueing a public denial. I hope and wish that he will stay in PPP. That is the place he ideologicaly belong.

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