I pray that independent judiciary restore with our honourable CJ IMC and other honourable judges. Once the judiciary is restored to Nov02,2007 position then these judges decide about NRO and mush according to the law.
Lawyers should stay on the right path and PMLN should help lawyers and not PPP to indemnify NRO. Zardari should not get away with corruption cases by NRO.
Zardari kamina of the highest degree will NEVER restore these judges. Kutta ,Zalil and Ghutia whose wife died teaching him manners. Shame on this leechar.
@Ahmed Bhai
Those who have witnessed AA’s argument in supreme court at the time of BB’s first dimissal in 90’s , know that how AA viewed the corruption charges against BB. In the second government of BB he was not taken as minister and have been very vocal in the party meetings against certain policies of BB. Since AA has arisen to his deserved position in politics now people can apperciate better what he says and holds , however there was time when he was considered as a traitor (not by Zia’s baqyiat but by the very patriotic and innocent punjabis) , his book “indus saga” was criticized by many GREAT “intellectuals” of Punjab who considered him as the decendent of Maharaja Ranjit Singh :).
Aitzaz has always been as vocal as he is now about his ideas and philosophy , and he is not the only one Senator Iqbal Haider holds the similar credintials not now but for last twenty years. But in the last twenty years that does not mean he disowns PPP or his leadership. His views about corruption by politicians are not extremist.
I know it is very hard to understand for the people that why Aitzaz , Iqbal Haider and many others do not leave the “corrupt” PPP , and they immediately bring these gentlemen down to the level of Ijaz-ul-Haq and Q’s nobodies.
Why does it take a NEW YORK TIMES reporter to write such views of AA ?
What ever happened in all the interviews of inumerable TV channels in Pakistan where AA was interviewed umpteen times and NO ONE asked questions related to the high level corruption of Zardari and BB. Amongst the much maligned bureaucrats of the country it has been common knowledge as to the rampant and open looting of the Paksitan treasury by Zardari and Co in a manner almost amounting to stealing with disdain and BB did nothing while this was going on-( assuming Zardari was doing this on his own ! )- Just ask the Argentine POLO community and how an entire stable of POLO ponies along with trainers was air lifted from Argentina to Islamabad.
And how does this affect the offer of Nawaz Shareef to support NRO in the parliament and does his offer not make him look like he supports corruption by Zardari?
Does this say something about the people who belong to PPP as it stands to-day ? Why don’t others like the so-called ” Honest ” people like Raza Rabbani etc etc come out and condemn Zardari rather than defending him . All these guys complain about Musharraf and ONE PHONE CALL on SEPT 11 2001. Well , Musharraf claims that he sold the country cheap in order to save it but what excuse do the MNA’s and MPA’s from PPP have. What are they saving by being BILLY GOATS before the EMPEROR ZARDARI
AA has backtracked from his story, but we all know it is true. He cannot publicly say this in Pakistan, because of fear of backlash from Zardari and agencies under his control.
Aitezaz belongs to PPP. He was always loyal to PPP. It is great of Zardari that he tolterates Aitezaz’s dissent in party. That is what democracy is all about. Such dissent is not possible in any other party including NS, IK and JI.
Aitezaz always considered cases against Bhuttos as fabricated and he is on record for that. That was his stand for last 12 years.
On the other hand NS is a convicted criminal by the same judges he is trying to restore. If he is innocent then the judges are criminal and if judges are honest he is a criminal. You cannot have both ways.
Bhuttos repeteatedly suffered the bonefire of EHTESAB for alst 30 years. Not a single case has been proved against them despite the fact prosecution and judiaciary was filled with anti-PPP bias.
Aitezaz is a honorable person and he did a honorable thing by issueing a public denial. I hope and wish that he will stay in PPP. That is the place he ideologicaly belong.
AA took his statement back and asked NYT to publish an explaination of his comments…………….let’s see if the reporter back tracks from his story………………AA has made a bad politcal move……..as lawyers movement will lose its steam…especially if PML(N) comes on board for the constitutional package……….
“On the other hand NS is a convicted criminal by the same judges he is trying to restore. If he is innocent then the judges are criminal and if judges are honest he is a criminal. You cannot have both ways.”
well said….NS is not sincere with the lawyers’ movement…he is doing it because he feels it is a popular decision to supprot lawyers’ movment…especially with his voters…….NS lacks leadership skills because easiest thing for a leader is to take a popular decision rather than a correct decision…correct decision at this time is support democracy and the parliament…and let the parliament decide this issue, which represents the people of Pakistan……….let the institutions work that have been severly damaged by Mush during the last 9 years…….let the parliament find a solution of the judges issue and stregthen that institutions as well…..
BTW– Mutwalas/Piyalas I know your response…you going to label me a “Jiyala” and start abusing AZ, BB and others…please write if you have something else to say…………..
Hear Hear!
Let’s support democracy and the parliament by having a non-elected (to the NA or a PA) leader of a political party make the most crucial decisions of our nation and continue Musharraf’s tradition of a rubber stamp PM. That definitely sounds like good governance and democracy to me!
Don’t you agree?
@Ummar Farooq,
Cannot you see? 1) zardari is as unelected as NS or SS, IK and Qazi. He holds better credentials than anu other political leader because he is leader of the ruling party. Getting elected is not a issue for him. He can get elected unopposed just like SS.
2) Zardari is not using assembly as his rubber stamp like NS did pre-Oct 12. He is trying to build consensus on vital issues like a true leader. On the other hand NS is playing same old dirty game he played in 1988. Has he learned any lesson from past?
Blind confontation is no solution. Civilized nations resolve their issues in parliament not streets.
If senses didn’t prevail then I see a situation like Bengladesh where confrontation led to wraping of parliament and now all party leaders are in jail (including pious JI) facing corruption charges.
Zardarii has been proved innocent after 12 years of prosecution by special courts under special laws. NS, Qazi and Jus Iftikhar have not proven innocent yet. Cases against them can revive easily. If Justice Dogar start listening Asghar Khan’s famous ISI-IJI case, NS and Qazi, Hameed Gul, Aslam Beg can easly go to jail because all the records are with SC already. IJI funding case is unique in a manner that here Parties and individuals both are involved in open corruptions. Most APDM parties, generalas and many leading anti-PPP journalists can go to jail for getting secret funds from ISI to tarnish PPP image.
Hear Hear, the most corrupt people in Pakistan are Mullas and Generals who always worked for US and took bribes on every deal under the sun.
ISI illegal funding to fom IJI is such a unique case of corruption that not only individuals like NS, SS, Qazi can go to jail but also all IJI parties can face a ban. IJI parties are ‘corrupt’ and can face ban under existing laws of the country.
PPP haters can hurl what ever insults they want but the fact is PPP won all fair elections in the country since 1970. Zardari should not accept any dictation from any loser. He shod do what is right as per PPP policy.
So why doesn’t he run and get elected?
What was that, Ch. Shujaat also felt that he could never be defeated? Oh thats right, look what happened to him. I’m not saying Zardari WOULD lose, BUT, what I am saying is that Zardari should butt out of politics if he isn’t going to seek an election.
I have been understanding of both Zardari and the Sharifs for not being elected on the 18th because there papers were denied, however, now there is a by-election coming up, and whom so ever does not run in the election, should not be making major decisions for the country.
I don’t care for any of the parties really, I’m a western raised Pakistani who wants to see a better Pakistan, and I seriously don’t know enough of the past histories of the different parties, so I’m not even going to attempt to discuss the past issues which I had no “hosh” for. But what I do know is that the way things are going right now, we are in trouble.
Yes, Zardari is currently unelected like NS, SS, IK, and Qazi, however none of these four are going to the ISI and being told state secrets. Gilani went and was briefed, that was good, he is our PM, but why did Zardari tag along, he took no oath.
As far as the Chief Justice of Pakistan goes, what charges are against him for which he wasn’t cleared?
Now here is the sticking point. I recall, Mohtrama saying, before she was assassinated (not right before, but in the short while before), that….what was it…..oh yeah, something along the lines of “Iftikhar Chaudry is my Chief Justice, and will remain my Chief Justice” (pardon me but I don’t remember the phrasing exactly, but that is the gist of it). Now correct me if I am wrong, but she never changed that stance before she was murdered. That stance, was also the stance of the PPP. So please, tell me, which of the two following scenarios are correct:
A) BB was wrong, and SHE was playing politics like you are blaming NS of doing now with the judges issue, and she was just supporting him for votes and public opinion?
or
B) BB was for the restoration of all the judges, and now people like you, and AZ are twisting many of those words and trying to forget that she said that?
Kind of a double standard don’t you think?
If AZ can claim the charges against him are bogus, why can’t every other pakistani? Rather than going through the REGULAR laws, and REGULAR courts, why do we give him special treatment and do like you said, clear him using SPECIAL courts and SPECIAL laws?
Kiya Zardari aasmaan say utra hai kai us kai liye har cheez khasoosi ho?
On an ending note, your right about one thing, “civilized” nations don’t take to the streets (riots and what not, protests and marches, of course they do), but they also don’t keep traitors around and let them continue to be President. They don’t have serfs working on their manors, or slaves on their plantations, or ghareebs on their vaderas.
June 2nd, 2008 at 7:44 am
I pray that independent judiciary restore with our honourable CJ IMC and other honourable judges. Once the judiciary is restored to Nov02,2007 position then these judges decide about NRO and mush according to the law.
Lawyers should stay on the right path and PMLN should help lawyers and not PPP to indemnify NRO. Zardari should not get away with corruption cases by NRO.
June 2nd, 2008 at 8:19 am
Zardari kamina of the highest degree will NEVER restore these judges. Kutta ,Zalil and Ghutia whose wife died teaching him manners. Shame on this leechar.
June 2nd, 2008 at 10:49 am
very good article…comprehensive and detailed
June 2nd, 2008 at 10:52 am
AA should have revealed this during BBs time
June 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 am
@Ahmed Bhai
Those who have witnessed AA’s argument in supreme court at the time of BB’s first dimissal in 90’s , know that how AA viewed the corruption charges against BB. In the second government of BB he was not taken as minister and have been very vocal in the party meetings against certain policies of BB. Since AA has arisen to his deserved position in politics now people can apperciate better what he says and holds , however there was time when he was considered as a traitor (not by Zia’s baqyiat but by the very patriotic and innocent punjabis) , his book “indus saga” was criticized by many GREAT “intellectuals” of Punjab who considered him as the decendent of Maharaja Ranjit Singh :).
Aitzaz has always been as vocal as he is now about his ideas and philosophy , and he is not the only one Senator Iqbal Haider holds the similar credintials not now but for last twenty years. But in the last twenty years that does not mean he disowns PPP or his leadership. His views about corruption by politicians are not extremist.
I know it is very hard to understand for the people that why Aitzaz , Iqbal Haider and many others do not leave the “corrupt” PPP , and they immediately bring these gentlemen down to the level of Ijaz-ul-Haq and Q’s nobodies.
June 2nd, 2008 at 11:16 am
It is high time AA formed a forward bloc of PPP called
PPPP: Pakistan Peoples Party Puritans.
PPPZ is doomed with Zardari in charge.
June 2nd, 2008 at 11:35 am
Pejamistri:
Since AA has arisen to his deserved position in politics now people can apperciate better what he says and holds
this is exactly the point which kept him quite before ?
June 2nd, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Good article.
June 2nd, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Why does it take a NEW YORK TIMES reporter to write such views of AA ?
What ever happened in all the interviews of inumerable TV channels in Pakistan where AA was interviewed umpteen times and NO ONE asked questions related to the high level corruption of Zardari and BB. Amongst the much maligned bureaucrats of the country it has been common knowledge as to the rampant and open looting of the Paksitan treasury by Zardari and Co in a manner almost amounting to stealing with disdain and BB did nothing while this was going on-( assuming Zardari was doing this on his own ! )- Just ask the Argentine POLO community and how an entire stable of POLO ponies along with trainers was air lifted from Argentina to Islamabad.
And how does this affect the offer of Nawaz Shareef to support NRO in the parliament and does his offer not make him look like he supports corruption by Zardari?
Does this say something about the people who belong to PPP as it stands to-day ? Why don’t others like the so-called ” Honest ” people like Raza Rabbani etc etc come out and condemn Zardari rather than defending him . All these guys complain about Musharraf and ONE PHONE CALL on SEPT 11 2001. Well , Musharraf claims that he sold the country cheap in order to save it but what excuse do the MNA’s and MPA’s from PPP have. What are they saving by being BILLY GOATS before the EMPEROR ZARDARI
June 2nd, 2008 at 1:42 pm
AA has backtracked from his story, but we all know it is true. He cannot publicly say this in Pakistan, because of fear of backlash from Zardari and agencies under his control.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2008/06/080602_aitzaz_nyt_rr.shtml
June 2nd, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Aitezaz belongs to PPP. He was always loyal to PPP. It is great of Zardari that he tolterates Aitezaz’s dissent in party. That is what democracy is all about. Such dissent is not possible in any other party including NS, IK and JI.
Aitezaz always considered cases against Bhuttos as fabricated and he is on record for that. That was his stand for last 12 years.
On the other hand NS is a convicted criminal by the same judges he is trying to restore. If he is innocent then the judges are criminal and if judges are honest he is a criminal. You cannot have both ways.
Bhuttos repeteatedly suffered the bonefire of EHTESAB for alst 30 years. Not a single case has been proved against them despite the fact prosecution and judiaciary was filled with anti-PPP bias.
Aitezaz is a honorable person and he did a honorable thing by issueing a public denial. I hope and wish that he will stay in PPP. That is the place he ideologicaly belong.
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:38 pm
AA took his statement back and asked NYT to publish an explaination of his comments…………….let’s see if the reporter back tracks from his story………………AA has made a bad politcal move……..as lawyers movement will lose its steam…especially if PML(N) comes on board for the constitutional package……….
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:47 pm
@ saqibtahir
“On the other hand NS is a convicted criminal by the same judges he is trying to restore. If he is innocent then the judges are criminal and if judges are honest he is a criminal. You cannot have both ways.”
well said….NS is not sincere with the lawyers’ movement…he is doing it because he feels it is a popular decision to supprot lawyers’ movment…especially with his voters…….NS lacks leadership skills because easiest thing for a leader is to take a popular decision rather than a correct decision…correct decision at this time is support democracy and the parliament…and let the parliament decide this issue, which represents the people of Pakistan……….let the institutions work that have been severly damaged by Mush during the last 9 years…….let the parliament find a solution of the judges issue and stregthen that institutions as well…..
BTW– Mutwalas/Piyalas I know your response…you going to label me a “Jiyala” and start abusing AZ, BB and others…please write if you have something else to say…………..
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:23 am
@Paf123, saqitahir
Hear Hear!
Let’s support democracy and the parliament by having a non-elected (to the NA or a PA) leader of a political party make the most crucial decisions of our nation and continue Musharraf’s tradition of a rubber stamp PM. That definitely sounds like good governance and democracy to me!
Don’t you agree?
*rolls eyes*
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:35 am
Mr.10% is now Mr.100% …simply….
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:55 pm
@Ummar Farooq,
Cannot you see? 1) zardari is as unelected as NS or SS, IK and Qazi. He holds better credentials than anu other political leader because he is leader of the ruling party. Getting elected is not a issue for him. He can get elected unopposed just like SS.
2) Zardari is not using assembly as his rubber stamp like NS did pre-Oct 12. He is trying to build consensus on vital issues like a true leader. On the other hand NS is playing same old dirty game he played in 1988. Has he learned any lesson from past?
Blind confontation is no solution. Civilized nations resolve their issues in parliament not streets.
If senses didn’t prevail then I see a situation like Bengladesh where confrontation led to wraping of parliament and now all party leaders are in jail (including pious JI) facing corruption charges.
Zardarii has been proved innocent after 12 years of prosecution by special courts under special laws. NS, Qazi and Jus Iftikhar have not proven innocent yet. Cases against them can revive easily. If Justice Dogar start listening Asghar Khan’s famous ISI-IJI case, NS and Qazi, Hameed Gul, Aslam Beg can easly go to jail because all the records are with SC already. IJI funding case is unique in a manner that here Parties and individuals both are involved in open corruptions. Most APDM parties, generalas and many leading anti-PPP journalists can go to jail for getting secret funds from ISI to tarnish PPP image.
Hear Hear, the most corrupt people in Pakistan are Mullas and Generals who always worked for US and took bribes on every deal under the sun.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:01 pm
ISI illegal funding to fom IJI is such a unique case of corruption that not only individuals like NS, SS, Qazi can go to jail but also all IJI parties can face a ban. IJI parties are ‘corrupt’ and can face ban under existing laws of the country.
PPP haters can hurl what ever insults they want but the fact is PPP won all fair elections in the country since 1970. Zardari should not accept any dictation from any loser. He shod do what is right as per PPP policy.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:13 pm
@saqibtahir
as regards the last sentence of your message
the only problem is that there is not much right as per PPP policy
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:22 pm
there were previously 2 parties who opposed mush’s impeachment. MQM and PPP now the third one has joined in!
http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=46779
guess who?
of course PMLQ!!!
khooob guzrae gi jab mil bathain gai devane do!
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:31 pm
@saqibtahir:
So why doesn’t he run and get elected?
What was that, Ch. Shujaat also felt that he could never be defeated? Oh thats right, look what happened to him. I’m not saying Zardari WOULD lose, BUT, what I am saying is that Zardari should butt out of politics if he isn’t going to seek an election.
I have been understanding of both Zardari and the Sharifs for not being elected on the 18th because there papers were denied, however, now there is a by-election coming up, and whom so ever does not run in the election, should not be making major decisions for the country.
I don’t care for any of the parties really, I’m a western raised Pakistani who wants to see a better Pakistan, and I seriously don’t know enough of the past histories of the different parties, so I’m not even going to attempt to discuss the past issues which I had no “hosh” for. But what I do know is that the way things are going right now, we are in trouble.
Yes, Zardari is currently unelected like NS, SS, IK, and Qazi, however none of these four are going to the ISI and being told state secrets. Gilani went and was briefed, that was good, he is our PM, but why did Zardari tag along, he took no oath.
As far as the Chief Justice of Pakistan goes, what charges are against him for which he wasn’t cleared?
Now here is the sticking point. I recall, Mohtrama saying, before she was assassinated (not right before, but in the short while before), that….what was it…..oh yeah, something along the lines of “Iftikhar Chaudry is my Chief Justice, and will remain my Chief Justice” (pardon me but I don’t remember the phrasing exactly, but that is the gist of it). Now correct me if I am wrong, but she never changed that stance before she was murdered. That stance, was also the stance of the PPP. So please, tell me, which of the two following scenarios are correct:
A) BB was wrong, and SHE was playing politics like you are blaming NS of doing now with the judges issue, and she was just supporting him for votes and public opinion?
or
B) BB was for the restoration of all the judges, and now people like you, and AZ are twisting many of those words and trying to forget that she said that?
Kind of a double standard don’t you think?
If AZ can claim the charges against him are bogus, why can’t every other pakistani? Rather than going through the REGULAR laws, and REGULAR courts, why do we give him special treatment and do like you said, clear him using SPECIAL courts and SPECIAL laws?
Kiya Zardari aasmaan say utra hai kai us kai liye har cheez khasoosi ho?
On an ending note, your right about one thing, “civilized” nations don’t take to the streets (riots and what not, protests and marches, of course they do), but they also don’t keep traitors around and let them continue to be President. They don’t have serfs working on their manors, or slaves on their plantations, or ghareebs on their vaderas.
So the question is, are we a civilized nation?