cant wait for that…

A former Army buddy of General Musharraf, Lt General Jamshed Gulzar Kiyani, who was appointed Corps Commander of the all-sensitive Rawalpindi Corps shortly after the 1999 coup, has turned against his former boss to the extent that on Friday he filed a petition in the High Court accusing Musharraf of misusing his powers.

complete story here

http://www.fascistarmy.org/03_aop/articles01_17.htm

yeah i catached few seconds….cant wait……

These jurnail CRIMINALS! All of them!

oooh its burning episode fantastic.

how many avidance require more to hang mush.

commmmoon admin…
commoooon…..

shortly….did someone say shortly over 2 hours ago ?

All the ex- ISI ppl are totally against moshe.. maybe they figured out he _is_ a foreign agent?

Very good show by SM and Jamshaid Gulzar, very infomative.

Bro Admin,

this video is incomplete. It seems to commence after the first break. Could we have the full version plz?

I just found out that it was a 2 hours episode. Anyway, last half of the episode is uploaded and first half is coming shortly.

All these retired generals when appear on TV put all blame on Mush. What I am unable to understand is that if all these generals were against Musharraf’s various decisions then why they didn’t resign-and how come Musharraf was able to force through all his decisions although most of his crore commanders apparently were not agreed with him?

commoooon admin…
and this second half is not working on mine plz do some thing,,,,
cant bloody wait to see that,,,,

ch ifthikhar would be eliminated by isi on the 10th of june along with lawyer leadership

Shame Shame Shame Shame

Chemical weapons used to deal with innocent students:(

I am ashamed being a pakistani

aoa

really good show

Part 1 and Free version uploading.

one thing i think should be kept in mind is that america at that time required some person who had authority and was not dependent on public opinion as public opinion was hugely against america at that time ,even ppp if in government would have not have supported america to the extent musharraf has supported,although bb was trying to portray herself as the best candidate to fight americas war against terrorism,but in reality america knew that even she had to bow against public opinion,therefore america selected an illegitimate general dictator who was in dire need of recognition and legitimacy (remember clinton did not even wanted to shake hands with this man).i think core commanders are not more than 10 to 15 and they must be having split opinion and it is very clear many people at that time in top military leadership were against going all out for america without taking nation into confidence and in this split opinion and on top of it american support for the dictator it is very easy to push decisions ahead as america all out supported musharraf at that time,even many core commanders at that time were against musharraf but then every body saw how they were removed and replaced by more loyal buddies.
The crux of the matter is mushi at that was an illegitimate head of state who had captured his own country which he was given the responsibilty to guard and he found an opportunity to bow all out infront of america and get himself legitimzed,it becomes more clear how keen he was to support america at that time by the fact that even bush did not talk to him ,he was earthed down by a phone call of collin powel and some indirect message of armitage that america will push us into stone age(armitage did not talk to musharraf he talked to some other army general when that general was visiting america and then that general conveyed feelings of armitage to musharraf).If u just compare it to 5 personal calls by clinton to nawaz shareef at time of atomic explsions and still he did not bow inffront of pressure of super power and did what was in the best interest of our beloved country.Long live democracy and down to america and down to puppet dictators controlled by america

@aamir,

Working fine for me. Can you do a bandwidth test at speedtest.net and let me know the results? Thanks

AMAZING PROGRAM and a MUST WATCH!
Once Again, Dr. SM is firing with all guns blazing! and am ABSOLUTELY ASTONISHED to find the hatred of ex-generals against Mush! They were his colleagues and I just fail to imagine their hatred against him- UNBELIEVABLE!
I have no doubt that general public might give him a safe passage but these ex-servicemen are way more inclined towards making him “NISHAN-E-IBRAAT”!
One of the most cherished things that army officers have is the CAMARADERIE but in case of Mush, that has even become extinct. Just Imagine a FAILURE that this MORONIC GENERAL has caused to our great nation!

@admin
i cant pay through my credit and debit cards tried all of them i am in uk plz cant wait to see dr shahid

Free version part 2 added.

one of the best shows ever of dr shahid.. up with special episodes of mafi namaa

even on the matter of pushing into stone age,armitage denied he ever made this statement,and when the list of requirements were put to paksitan and all were accepted within minutes ,even americans got surprised , they were not expecting that even the said illegitimate ruler of pakistan would accept some of the requirements as they were too much against our national sovereignity,getting it short by keenly finding ways to bow infront of bush and america,he got legitimised in the eyes of americans who were in dire need of some remote control device like him,but what came next was disastrous selling people for money,bombing innocent civilains by american drones and pakistan army wrongly claiming that infact they were killing innocent people in the tribal areas which turned people against army and wave of suicidal attacks against the most loved institution which paksitanis respected more than their own lives,see how this man has been used to make public opnion against our awn army to destroy us from within,how innocent girls were bombed by phosphorous bombs to get rid of few lawless people who themselves were clearly supported by agencies and all that drama was created to show that we are more loyal to the masters even more than they are loyal to themselves, there was absolutely no requirement of any military action against few people and later putting tonnes of brand new cleaned up rocket launchers and heavy military hardware from the stores to prove that they were worst heavily armed terrorsits hiding there (who will die without using any of those tonnes heavy weapons that were shown).and killing children and ladies can not be justified by any moral standards of the world,the most professional army in the world could not get released 2000 girls from some 20 hard core militants,therfore it was essential to kill all criminals including all all girls who were taken hostage as may be girls could prove terrorsts in future and then what was portrayed as some act of bravery and military success infact it was one of most shameful acts of moshi which requires proper legal inquiry and independent trial under some most honest available judges in the country.
and kargil was another stupid ill planned adventure of mushi in which he put the political leadership and whole nation in shame and thanks to n shareef who flew to america to stop this adventure from becoming more disgrace for our army and nation.
and this mushi has bulldozed the constitution many times latest being november last year in which he made a new world record of removing about 60 percent of the judiary and locking them up in their houses just because chief justice refused to become part of looting of national resourses by selling steel mill at about one third of market value to some close partners of his beloved prime minister shauket aziz
i think there are many many things more also which require attention like abducting about 1000 people and handing them over to america or putting them in secret jails and their wives and chilkdren after 6 years do not know where they are and they have no cases against them ,inshort an independent judiical inquiry should be conducted to investigate what this man has done to the nation and this man should be made to stand infront of the justice and explain himself as to why he disgraced us as a nation and played in the hands of foreign masters.

a w e s o m e !

where is part 1 i dont see it anywhere

Part 1 added.

Free version added.

MUSH WORLD,S REAL (BEGAIRAT)

It is amazing how Musharraf still publicly walks around with his thumb up his a$$, how utterly shameless.

I am in no way comapring Gen Gulzar to Quaid-i Azam, but his tone and voice bear some resemblance to that of the Quaid.

Dr Shahid Masood is the best, he can blow Musharraf’s langoti off any day, any time.

It seems that army has started a campaign to restore its image. First the old men and now this somewhat freshly retired Zornaal has jumped on the bandwagon of uncivilized, status less and “bloody civilians”. Army cannot wash out its sins easily.

@Ashraf: I was thinking the same thing… he seems _very_ uncomfortable in this new fangled garb of “decency” …

If only I had a dime for every time I saw a cat going to hajj after nau so choohah’s I’d be a rich man today.

I think most of us know what the man has said. We all know how ISI plays games. We all know how our army bows to the Indian army. Kashmir Singh’s release and now Rehman Malik’s efforts to release Sarbajit Singh tell a lot of stories. We have received four dead prisoners including a woman but we are giving their terrorists amnesty and boast it in the name of human rights. Why did he not set an example by saying these things while serving his country? People would have welcomed him the way they welcomed Iftikhar Chaudhry. Sorry state for Pakistan. General is a general with or without his uniform.

kameena jarnail or shareef jarnail, there’s no denying that the man’s got a sexy voice. wonder if he has a daughter.

Dr. Shahid always seems like a kid in the candy store trying to find out the inner workings of the corps commanders and the ISI. I guess it is his regular joe image/persona that attracts a lot of people. I have to say that I much prefer the incisive and much more professional Talat.

awesome music at the end of Doctor sahib’s show though.

One thing is common between CJ and Gen Jamshed that both are victim of shoka taan pataas.

My theory on Cargil has always been somewhat like this:

1: America has governed Pakistan through the ganday anday Generals of the Army

2: For the first time in history of Pakistan a democratic prime minister(NS) was undermining the supremacy of America by undermining supremacy of the generals.

3: Army generals, now so wise after the event, disliked the idea of being answerable to a democratically elected government because they had enjoyed an absolute rule before that. So they started to meddle with NS who started sacking them.

4: Army ego was generally hurt by that and anti NS sentiment was manufactured

5: Moshe was chosen by America to bring down NS.

6: NS was a political leader at the top of the fame ladder because of his decision on nukes. For a successful coup against such a popular democratic leader, his reputation had to be tarnished.

7: this is when Cargil was dreamed up by Moshe or his masters. His aim was never anything more that but to get soldiers killed and then pin it on NS in order to defame him. Same tactics used by America by orchestrating 911.
It was once possible to hide the truth but no longer is the case as the people are now not conned so easily as they were in times of cold war etc. 911 was an inside job in order to convert America in to a police state and in order to legitimise America’s war against Muslim countries that own the strategic resources of the world. It also benefitted culprits like Israel, Russia and India who were defending their illegal occupation of Muslim territories because overnight the Mujahideen became Islamic terrorists.

8: Next step after defaming NS through blaming Cargil on him was to declare him as a traitor and then hang him. But he survived and thus we have a leader in Pakistan today who speaks with the clarity of the mind unlike some.

The thing is; it is good that all these generals and ex-army men are campaigning against Moshe BUT why did they support his illegitimate coup in the first place????

Why was he not court marshalled???

Also, why did the whole of the Army showed their quite support to Moshe?

Had NS really become unpopular in the Army?
Had NS not made his own appointments?

Again, I can only theorise on these questions but I would sure love to hear the answers to these questions from some of these ex-army men.

The army always functioned as a separate entity from the democratic leaders as it had ruled Pakistan through such lengthy coups. Therefore, it was probably able to mount a campaign of smearing NS reputation as NS tried to minimise Army’ role in the democratic process.
NS probably never got round to making enough appointments at the strategic levels that he ought to have done as the Army had never let the political structure ever become that powerful and there were probably a large pro BB element still in the establishment from the previous short era of PP because of the trend of making personal appointments by every new political entrant. So as a result, atmosphere in the Army was of the nature that no political leader has the right to medal with the army structure as it is the so called true guardian of Pakistan. What the Army thinks of Politicians is no secret.
So in short NS was not so favourable at the time because of the repetitive shuffle of the COASs, hence the propaganda of Ameerul mumineen etc.

The other influence was one which was also admited by Gen Jamshaid. Who mentioned in his opening statements that a soldier is loyal to its country and to its COAS (Abba Ji).

It is this culture of brainwashing that really makes me furious. Every soldier obeys his senior like a loyal son of a highly regarded Abba Ji.

It is thus that General Moshe was not challenged by his juniors but instead was honoured with khussiyah bardaari.

However, as the Pakistani nation has gone through a transformation in these last few years and has learned the importance of independent judiciary and has realised that there is only one side to a dictatorship and that it is completely dark, so has the Army. The army too is finally waking up and is realising that they alone do not own and protect Pakistan and that it’s not their right to govern but the right of the people of Pakistan through their elected representatives.

Pakistan is going through a transformation and many dark horses will try to become part of the new establishment as they did after 1947.

A cleansing of the establishment from such dark horses is paramount. No new agents of colonial powers must be recruited in the new democratic fabric of Pakistan.

In the end, all those generals and core commanders who could have made Moshe’s coup ineffective should apologise to the nation for their crime of silent observation!

pak army in particular is a tola of professional goons who can show their muscles only against innocent & oppressed while facing a professional army everyone can see them running like jackal.
ghunday, baigharat, kidnappers and qatil of Jamia hafsa.

@niazbhti

I wouldn’t genralise against the whole of the Army, but I could agree that it is in dire need of a cleansing.

These jurnails are NOT loyal to Pakistan. They are loyal to “Army” first and then the chattel in pakistan which they need to make their lives easy. I say we execute a couple of batches of these FUGGERS and then see who’s boss?

Now every d!ckback is crawling out from under a rock and claiming to WUV Pakistan…! Where The F were you when Pakistan was getting A$$ Raped by your buddies?

Oh I know, you were right their holding the COAS’s Ba!!s with your very tounges!

BaRay Aa’ay MuHiBB-e Vatan!

Why all these retired jarnails sound so much like Q league, Q version of their justication “Oh ji, mein wahid banda tha kabina mein jis ne is musharaf ki mukhalifat ki” retired jarnail ” I told him categorically, he should not do this.. that”

All these people enjoyed this loot but now like mice leaving the sinking ship….

Did the military kill Fatima Jinnah?

The story about Miss Jinnah’s death is not a new one. Below is an extract from an earlier Cam Diary. “Jinnah’s sister had the habit of locking her bedroom door and leaving the keys under the door in the morning for the housemaid to enter and attend to her. On the tragic day there were no keys and the door remained shut. Nobody dared enter. As a very close friend of Jinnah and Fatima, MAH Ispahani was called to the house.

“MAH entered the room and found Fatima dead. It is reported that Fatima had been strangled! There were strangulation marks on her neck. This was apparently hushed up at the time by Ayub’s military regime. It will be remembered that Fatima was standing as presidential candidate against Ayub. Was she a sufficient threat to the military for her to be got rid of in such a brutal way? Shocking if true.”

I didn’t know, cuz I was too busy jacking off to Mutale’a Pakistan all _my_ life!

We are the best professional army….then what happened in kargil….dushman ka response bohat intense tha, they brought their state of art sophisticated weapons……hence….the most prof army get fkd.

The general is so clever that he said he was not involved in the 1999 coup. He said that to avoid being tried, if that is if , 1999 coup adventurers are put to task

He said, ” We are qualitatively superior to indian army.”
Some one should ask this nutcase about one thing, Indian army never went against its own people and took over their country even during the khalistan movement when there was absolute turmoil. what sort of quality is he babbling about.

He said, ” We are a professional army”
He should remember Professional armies are always under civil control.

1971 he forgot to mention about the atrocities of pakistan army’s so called jawans.

Pakistan army deserted their own soldiers and ran away in kargil and indians posted a lot of videos of pakistani soldiers confessing on youtube too.

The man is a liar teaching us how napak army showed its valour in 71 and 1999. We were literally obliterated by the indian army in kargil.

Link of video of the defeat of our great army that only knows to take over its own country.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IS8cKBgNsOI

@TK
I think it would be too late to make enquiries on such things now. In my opinion we should focus on hanging Moshe. Conducting enquiries on events of his 9 year dictatorship and events such as Cargil and finding BB’s killers.

Also….

restoring judiciary and securing Pakistan for the future.

I really love the RETARDED strategy these jurnails come up with. That douchebag Ayub had the same bright fuqn idea in 65. “oh they’d never invade over the international borders would they?”

Think again complacent B!TCH!

Gawd we need to hang a few of these incompetent fuqqers and show them who the FUIQ is boss!

part 2: However then the most professional army, which didn’t dare to bring its sophisticated weapons against a real professional army, finally brought them to massacre innocent women and children in a closed compound. It was a great fight and at last after many days the prof army conquered lal hill after loosing tiger hill, killing around 2000 dushmans most of them were unarmed. Bravo ghunda army bravo!!

It look like army is had made up his mind to throw Musharaf out of the picture. What a way to go for Musharaf, I am loving it!!

what a looser this guy!!

Totally.. absolutely.. unquestionably.. undoubtedly.. categorically … loooserrr!

“army is strongly loyal to the country… corps commanders are loyal to the country.. therefore.. the general is loyal to the country” — Kiyani’s associative law

Is he telling Kargil planssss!!!!! Plus he gives presentations to NS and then he says that NS was not on board!!!

This guys is a faux-intellectual

An eye opener to all ……. !!!!!!!!!!! Nawaz Sharif’s stature has definitely increased manifolds after this interview. God bless him.

@m5433d
About Kargil: Thanks for putting it down and saving me some typing as mine is almost the same
One fact I would like to add regarding point 7. I say Kargil was dreamed up not only to defame NS but also to PROP-UP Moshe. Also keep in mind that the “Kargil Operation” was nothing new in the sense that it was one of the scenarios that had been war-gamed by the army several times previously and each time the conclusion was sure you could take Kargil but it would lead to wider conflict for which Pakistan was not ready so it was rejected. My point is Mush knew this and went ahead with it so there is no doubt to it’s purpose.

Sorry I should have said “take Kargil (but holding it was another matter all together)” instead of just “take Kargil”

@Zenith
“The man is a liar teaching us how napak army showed its valour in 71 and 1999. We were literally obliterated by the indian army in kargil.”

Totally! And remember this b@stard stuck with Mush (and against Pakistan) all this time and is speaking now cause he just lost his high-profile/high-paying job on account of the PCO only recently. Now he is talking this sh!t when he has nothing to loose. “Professional” my @ss. Unless it is professional wh*re-ism what he is talking about. What a disgrace this guy is!

@nota
I agree to your suggestion. I also say : lets have a public hearing on this. Closed doors mean a seed for future controvasy. All Pakistanis have the right to know what went on in Cargil.

@ nota

The day when We(British) leave India, she will be ruled by goons and thugs”.— Sir Winston Churchill, late British Royal Army Officer and Prime Minister

I think he meant pakistan.

This guy is no exception. After a couple of years many of the current serving goons, after retirement, will come on TV and babble about thow they were constrained to do their jobs. What rubbish!

Somebody please explain this to me. Why do all generals and ex-servicemen talk against Musharraf when they have retired, why don’t they have the courage to stand up and say no to what is wrong? Why they all turn into angels suddenly? These people are equally responsible for the butchery in Red Mosque and Balochistan. Why had they not resigned from their posts when they knew Musharraf was doing all wrong? Not even a single army man resigned? Our conscience is not alive, we are a dead nation!

well we can’t blame the whole army for a few black sheeps. I have seen a lot of individuals blaming the whole army, I do understand the strong resentment but it will be very unwise to blame army as a whole. It is unfair!

[...] Click here to watch the interview. __________________ (/) (O.o) ( ) /_|_ Copy the bunny to your siggy to [...]

aslamaliqum
now everybody tell about kargil,lal masgid, where these people that time when he use the phosporas bomb, i am belong to pindi i know , that time he spurot to mush

dear @goshee25

you dont know army rules u can say only yes and yes in front of urs senior even he is a lieutenant. u have not urs own opinion u just follow the order

did anybody know whts happen those 6 or 7 officer who charged mutiny against mush and court marshal in the early time of mush gov.

These generals although should be commended and supported to come out and say the truth, though I see this action of theirs with doubt and skepticism.

Maybe these generals are coming out and speaking against musharraf in order to save the image of an army officer like a general. Perhaps they are bashing musharraf in order to give an impression that the army does not like musharraf.
Maybe army wants them to say things against musharraf so that the army isnt criticised and the individual is.

This way many cronies of the general save their asses and work together to provide a safe exit for musharraf.

I think those friends of the general should also be brought to justice. If we have to criticise mushrraf then why not his friends in the army with whose help he did all these shameless actions like the attack on jamia hafsa, etc.

It is good that such details are coming out. There is. however, one danger - the blame may be put on a single person rather than the system. One gets an impression that the argument is that Mush got it wrong. But Mush is the manifestation of a deeply flawed system that allows military infiltration into politics. I hope that the larger isuse of military being under the civilian rule is not missed out while molesting a single individual.

Ibn Razi

Isn’t Musharraf’s silence over this interview eerie? Rashid Quereshi speaks through his a$$ anytime someone criticises Mush.

I guess they have nothing left to say.

KEE USS NE MAERAY KATAL K BAAD JAFA SE TAUBA
HI ISS ZOOD PASHEMAN KA PASHEMAN HONA

Why everybody is so intelligent, and repenting after the events. when Mush was strong, these were all around him saying YES SIR, Now when he is almost gone they are all becoming loyal to country.
MUNAAFAQAT KEE BEE HUD HOTEE HAI YAAR

this seems to be a new trend that atleast people have started to repent particularly when such person is ex-general………….
more importantly this genetleman has really made difference when he was serving in federal service commission, so he is not a mere repenter but a practical person…………….

admin,
Can I download and upload this one on my blog? Only this one with due ack given to pk politics.

Looking for your reply,

Asslam o Alaikum
You all are trying to debate about generals views and what ever he said but nobody is ready to accept we still have faith in Dr Shahid we need to give him some time for that PTV Chairman News may be it turn out to be something else or he would have refused already.

Good to know Dr Shahid is still the Best…..

Pakistan ZIndabad

Link of video of the defeat of our great army that only knows to take over its own country.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IS8cKBgNsOI
___________________________________________
tsk, tsk…shame on those who make fun of their shaheed soldiers who must have fought tooth and nail against a much bigger adversary. u can say whatever u want to corrupt generals but a normal jawan and young officers are beyond a shadow of a doubt are very professional and patriot as any other pakistani.

First of all I would like to thank Dr. Shahid for not interrupting.

In my view we should at least appreciate this guy for coming forward and exposing Musharaf, Musharaf is still there and he should be punished for his wrong doings.

@asfand
facts about Napak army should be brought infront of general public
i do appreciate the fact that there must be people who died only for this country
but we have paied enough price of their bllod a a nation to this corrupt army
they are in a habit of hiding behind Shaheeds
you point a finger at them, their bloody business empire and the knee jerk reaction is WELL WE HAVE SO MANY SHAHEEDS
enough now!!!!!
soldires die all over the world for their country
Hindus, Jews, christians they all dies for their country
but their armies dont make money selling their blood to the nations
and man!!!!!
other armies even WIN wars
Napak army never did

Guys ……i was upto now convinced that this bastard Mush was a paid CIA agent . Now i am thinking may be not ! i think he was a RAW agent from day one . Planted into the army . What Kayani revealed is that on kargil this bastard played into the hands of the Indians , perhaps deliberately , beacuse it was a set up by the Indians and Mush to dismember PAKISTAN . Their plan got foiled only because NS begged on his bended knees to the americans to save us..I say HANG THE GHADAR NOW ……

Quite agree with everyone on the fact that all the generals admit their mistakes only when they wre not in power and are foreseeing the fall of their established thorn.

But dont forget that we still haven’t reched post-musharraf era. America/bush is still behind musharraf and democratic forces like PPP are too weak or compromised to get rid of him, so the end of musharraf can be short or long depending on the protest and voice raised by the public and so if people like kiani speak up now, it will only build up the pressure on present regimen and would prompt the public to come on streets and ask for their rights. So I think he is doing the right thing by asking for punishment for musharraf and attempting to clear some muck from the image of army. We need sarkari gawahs like him to know the real story of musharraf…….

our rulers will; have no option but to trial musharraf after this ……….

Great work done by Jamshed Kiani……………..He represent all Ex Serviceman………………..and its shows that Ex serviceman are also with nation.Now there is no way for mush except HANGING……………..
Well done Jamshed Kiani and SM

I think that there are some good attributes of our army which have gone into background because of the more abonimal deeds of the army. Inorder to make our army a really professional army several steps need to be taken.

1. The post of Chief of Army staff should be abolished. Army should be divided into five commands, each headed by a general.

This would remove the Army Chief from the scene who has become even more powerful than the PM.

2. All business links of army should be severed. Askari welfare trust and fauji foundation shoudl be privatized. Army officers shoudl not be sent on deputation in any other department.

3. The culture of plots should be done away with. All DHAs should be abolished so that army officers can return to being professional soldiers instead of being property dealers.

Quaid,her sister and liaquat ali died in mysterious conditon and the interrogation was not done as all people sorrounded them had kept silent and avail opportunites and benefit for promoting army supremacy in the region.
Dr shahid did an enormous job but he didnt dare to ask this dull general that why not he reacted at his peak team aginst mush.He was through out alloted the best army and civilians portfolios through out his tenure like gen qayum of steel mill.Both allowed million dollar wrong doings and mas killing of civillians but never resigned and gave statement to public as apology.
its too late as they supported mush for turning him into monster and now they are trying to kill this monster by using the power of lawyers.

@adonis
Could not agree more to your suggestions. You are my minister of planing in my cabnet.lol. No honestly, the first suggestion of making five commands like American army is a good one.

lol….

Thanks democrat. But actually I am collecting names for ministers in my own cabinet …….

NS sends another clear concise message…this time about the 2nd most important issue after restoration of judiciary…i.e treason trial for Mush!!!

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=46741

well done NS….i wish other parties help in building up pressure. so far no clear message (since the two C130’s have been noted at Chaklala airbase, one to carry Mush’s family and the other to carry the traitor himself) has been delivered by other parties.

Mush is seriously concerned about treason trial and presidency is now actively seeking support from ‘like minded’ parties…this shows how worried he is …hahahah….bhaag chuhai teri mot aiee

apparaently mush’s escape route is not even known to his family (who will fly separately).

@adonis

I really do agree with all your suggestions but particularly the first one. I’ve always thought that myself that the authority of COAS should be delegated to a panel of high ranking Generals who Must make collective decisions. Any split decisions should be referred to CE.

Also, the long term strategic decisions should seek the compulsory approval of a larger panel that could even include core commanders so that they can’t avoid responsibility. Again, split decisions should be referred to CE if not parliament.

A COAS must be however nominated by the CE for a situation of war who supersedes the delegated panel in outright invasion by an enemy.

@admin

Aoa

I think it might be an interesting idea to conduct a ‘yes no’ poll on ‘will you be marching with the lawyers on the 10th?’ May be it will encourrage people to join the march.

thanx

@adonis @m5433d

no doubt you have come up with good ideas, however for Pakistani Army to be strong and to be able to defend the country and its borders it needs a COAS with full mandate. This is the norm in any country. Not just for Army but in every field eg PM for country and a captain for eg cricket/footbal team.

i am sure you have come up with these ideas based on our history of army takeovers but the resolution of this issue can be achieved with independant judiciary, follow constitution, responsible political leaders and free and independant media. I see all these things happening particularly in the last year or so and if we continue like this Army chiefs will concentrate on their constitutional role only

as regards @adonis point 2&3. I fully agree. there should be an immediate end to profit making army businesses along with stopping all future DHA expansions

@adonis,@m4533d & @Malek:

my 2cents.

I think the issue is the psychology of the Army and not the rules.. same is true about our constitution. It is the psychology of our nation which thinks that “it is OK to break the rule if it happens to apply to us and we have the power/authority to do it”

We need to re-focus on our Military Academies and Bureaucratic academies and make curriculum changes in the education systems of our key institutions. It would be really good to change the whole education system but for now we can start with some of the institutions.

We need to instill respect for the rule of law (in _word_ and in _spirit_ ) in these officers. Because until we do that, they will keep finding ways to “hack the system” as it were.

I think this was the best episode of Meray mutabiq sofar.

One thing I keep hearing and can’t understand is the comment “The army is extremelly desciplined”

I am afraid I could not disagree more, the Army is very in-desciplined. Descipline is to follow rules, and when the COAS breaks the consitution and his aoth, following and supporting him is an outshining example of in-descipline in an organisation.

If everytime such a General steped out of line, they court marshelled him I would say that the Army is desciplined.

@TK
man you are the best in the ironic responses . “I didn’t know, cuz I was too busy jacking off to Mutale’a Pakistan all _my_ life!” was a classic.
I love your comments against jurnails; they always touch my heart.
This jurnail might want a political position in the next election

For my knowledge can anybody shed some light on this general’s career?

bbc also reported about troubles mush is in….. he is ready to escape abroad because he knows ‘phansi ka phanda’ is tightening….

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7425953.stm

On lighter note: General seems like Ajay Devgan’s father..definitely Ajay took the hairstyle from him..:-)

@usear : Right ON! You nailed it!

@nhai: thx bro.. I hope you meant ’sarcastic’

Anyone else notice how the same damn name keeps showing up behind ever FUQ-UP of the last government (after moshe’s that is?)

Shaukat Aziz.

I’m sure Attiqa Odho and her wrinkles would disagree, but who gives a sh!t !!

@Malek@TK,

I agree that an independent judiciary would resolve the crisis of the coups but it would also need to be aided with a truly democratic government and devoted public support and administration that would be willing to force the decision of the judiciary because the whole system in Pakistan is corrupted.

An NRO steered government will not be able to correct Pakistan’s current situation.

We need to rebuild Pakistan and for that we need CJ Iftikhar for a long time along with a political party that is not full of dakus but full of people truly love their country

So the delegation of power would only be a temporary measure that would not be required in the presence of pre 3rd judiciary.

What TK talks about is changing the system. It will only happen if Allah has decided to change the course of Pakistans future, which is what I think is finally about to happen.

I like Dr S M but he should be more patient and give due courtesy to the guest for responding questions S M himself poses but intrrupts the guest in the middle of sentence . This is very annoying and disrupts the trend of thought of the listner as wel as the guest.. He is not alone in this some other talk show hosts are worst then him. Surely there are times when specialy politicians dont address the questions being posed, In that instance the questions may be repeated and the guests may be intrrupted to bnring him back to the topic. This was hardly the case here.
Jazak Allah Khairan

We have seen numerous ambassadors, generals and other bureaucrats achieve the status of “saints”, but only after being kicked out or after retiring. Everybody seems to be queuing up to have a go at Mush and his cronies.

Everybody is rightly asking why now, when you have lost the real power? Why did you not speak up, when it mattered most and when you had some kind of power? If they had been sincere towards Pakistan they would have loudly and clearly told their boss to get straight or face the consequences according to the law.

Anyhow I would say better late than never! I still welcome their statements, because they are playing an important role to further weaken the bloody dictator. BUT we should be aware of these people. They should never be trusted for important roles and for that less important roles in a future setup. They deserve to be used as toilet paper in the case against the gang of evil and then flushed out.

/Saqib

For all those people challenging the integrity of Gen Kiyani, i cant help but say… listen to snow patrol “open your eyes”…..

Perhaps you are not aware of how miltary trains officers and builds them for future leadership…… from day one obeying “Chain of Command” is like holy scripture to them…. So shunning orders when in uniform is against all training and morals given to them over a period of 2 3 decades..

Give me any example from any other prominent Military service…
Take the Us Army… The Commanding officer of Abu Gharaib prison after retirement came out in the open as to how the Defence Seceretary and other politicians had instructed no interference in the inhumane treatment methods of interrogation for iraqi prisoners…..

i repeat ……….”after retirement” ……not when prisoners heads were being put in toilets and made to sodomize within those walls.

The ex Chief of Staff of Us Military, and the ex Commander of Us forces in Iraq, and various other Military officers after having served in Iraq opened up to the media saying the policies were wrong and etc….

Plus how much do you actually know that rite now officers and jawans of the Pak Army are not agreeing with the operations in Waziristan…
Atleast I know dozens who refused to carry out orders… went home even after being ordered to fire against their own civilians…

Search for The news story about the Co of SSG brigade who was removed for refusing to take part in the Wazirsitan operation….

If in an army of half a million, even thousands did that than that speaks for itself.

As for the Lal Masjid operation, we all cried for the innocent students…
But remember before the acutal operation,
Col Haroon was sent in with 5 commandos to break the outside wall..
so that the women and girls could be taken out.
They killed him for nothing…. After that the insane Gernals took over and did what was the worst day of our history… totally horrible… may ALLAH bless all those who died that day.

But none of you are doing any service by going against
our own Armed forces…
the decision of some should not overshadow the loyalty and patriotism of million others…. The Army officers and Jawan are within us and should not be maligned like some writers wish to do so.

Calling the army ‘napak’ is beyond ridicolous….
its as if all the ills of pak are due to them, if thats so, why rite now when the politicians have a free hand to redirect the fate of the nation, they are showing their true colors and thinking more of prolonging their rules than doing something for the country.

As for Gen kiyani, pls remember He is speaking all this while Mush is still here.. cocky americans are still supporting him… Political vixens like PPL and Q league are hiding behind the curtains with his support in mind………… So his words and enthusiasm carry weight in my eyes atleast.

HOpefully all others can shun negativism and hypocrisy to read between the lines.

Dear Admin,
Its part is still incomplete. Could you please add the full version, it will be much appreiciated.

@usmanzone

You are right, we shouldn’ call our army a ‘napak army’, that’s unacceptable. A few pigs(jernails) shouldn’t be taken as represent atives of all the army.

@usmanzone: no-one is disputing the necissity of chain-of-command here (at least not me — maybe others)

But a fatal flaw with the “discipline” of Pak Army is that they DO NOT Obey the chain of command FULLY.

The Chain of command starts with civilian leadership.

You are forgetting the basic golden rule.

A military “discipline” is not good if it doesn’t follow the chain of command! And that chain MUST start with the civilian leadership. All of the worlds successful nations (read Nations who have their feet up our army’s ar$e) follow this one rule. Chain of command starts with civil authority.

Army without civilian control is a monster out of control. It is like a solid booster rocket on the space shuttle, fully functioning but disconnected from the main flight-control computer. So it does whatever it wants, it “thinks” it’s flying high but it ends up crashing in the sea and destroying everyone including itself.

I have a real problem with Jurnail apologists who sing praises of “the discipline” in the army but choose to ignore the glaring and criminal violations of this “chain of command” by the Army top brass in which the Generals do not follow the orders they are given by civilians.

A really sad example of this behaviour is an absolute lack of respect paid by the generals to our civilian leadership. These COWARDS! They are only TOO EAGER to salute foreigners after they have usurped power, but make excuses when it comes to saluting the supreme civila authorities (that they are supposed to be reporting to).

Look at these pu$$ies.. look at musharraf shamelessly saluting the indian PM like a subservient DOG! but he has qualms about saluting his own PM? WTF? Is _THIS_ what you call discipline? Make excuses when it comes to respecting your own PM, (oh jee, agar cap utaar kay mileN to salute nahiN karnaa paRega!.. )

I call this Cowardice that ought to be punishable by DEATH.

You SALUTE YOUR FUQN BOSSES! YOU FUQN COWARDS!

@Saqib:
“”Everybody seems to be queuing up to have a go at Mush and his cronies.”"

Yeah, seems more like an attempt to scapegoat Musharraf. I hate this man with a vengeance, but the agenda of this jurnail and the other ’scorned’ jurnails seems to be to blame everything on one man and absolve the Army (especially the Army’s leadership - read: Brigadier and up) of any systemic role in the FUQING-UP of the Pakistani nation.

All these A-Holes stayed quiet as long as they were reaping the benefits, but now want to become martyrs and saints for the cause of those whom they helped repress through their crimes of omission and comission.

Even NOW, this man is doing nothing but doing a whitewash job of trying to absolve the institution of it’s crime while blaming everything on Moshe.

I have no sympaty with these losers. They have ruined us. We must not let them get away if Pakistan breaks because of their fuq-ups and continuous meddling in the affairs of the nation (forget about the fuqn job you’re SUPPOSED to do.. and start pi$$ing around with politics and cement factories and real estate — great FUQN plan A$$holes!)