It is a war zone anything can happen. Nato and Pakistan Army is not fighting a uniformed enemy. Both sides can justify their position. The terrorist must stop what they are doing. Pakistan has suffered enough. At the end of the day talibans are now fighting inside our territory and we should not allow the invasion irrespective of a common religion.

@Claremont
Both sides cannot justify their position. The Pakistani military was operating in Pakistani territory; the US military was operating outside of its territory. The only justification the US can provide is that their man in Rawalpindi has authorized the illegal incursions. Secondly, to tell the ‘terrorists’ to stop what they are doing but letting the military continue its action is a blatant double standard. Pakistan has suffered more at the hands of it’s military than at the hands of these ‘terrorists’.

the bumreekis are running on fumes…and this ‘cowardly attack’ is symptomatic of a desperate state of mind.. a realization of imminent failure..economic , military and political failure. the winners of this ‘war on terror’ are the oil moguls…of bumreeka. the poor patriotized citizens of bumreeka are not to blame for the aipack-ized politics of washington.

but its changing….if not with obama then in the next few elections…the youth of the cyber culture are finding uncontrolled ways to news and views of/on what their govt. is doing in their name….and they will take washington back..

the con-spiracy theorist inside would argue that it may be a message to kiyani-armee…to stick with their man in i-slam bad..

a message that they now realise..(as always after the shooting from the bum/hip) didn’t go down too well.

I am amazed why ISPR general didnt come and say

‘this attack was done by not american forces but by pakistani army with the help of cobra helicopters’

obviously its easy to take responsibility of killing innocent children in a mosque rather than accepting the killing of army crew.

What a nation are we

Atomic power, huge army, Hugely resourceful infantry, airforce, navy, absolute white elephant for last 60 years and still what can they deliever

the biggest surrender in extremely shameful circumstances in 71

suicidal militancies i kargil organised by incompetent, sterile brains

shamefully rejecting to accept the dead bodies of own men by calling them mujahideen in kargil

Killing our own men, children and women in tribal areas

bombing the innocent childern in lal mosque as if they are insects

Accepting the responsibility of someone else’s sins in bajore

What a bunch of shameful individuals this army is

What the F..k is this defense minister. He says we can’t do anything to American because we aren’t able to do so.

He said we will ask Americans for money against killing of soldiers and innocent people.

He is typical Beghairat like Sheikh Rasheed who was used to say that if you don’t support US it will make us Tora Bora.

Someone should ask (poor) Ahmed Mukhtar if some rich person with few guards come to your house and f..q your daughter hard, would you say that I can’t do anything because he is rich and carrying guards.

@kafka8: an alternate explanation may also be that this is a foreign policy fuq-up by NS.

How?

NS sat on a table in a joint press conference with Imran Khan.

Imran Khan completely attacked Bush. Bush is the worst windictive a$$hole EVER.

NS _DID NOT_ contradict IK’s really provocative statements for whatever reason. But NS is a govt partner, he effectivly controls Punjab and he is the 2nd largest party in the govt. He is 80% govt! like it or not.

When he sits on a platform, and lets someone talk sh!t to the american president (DIRECTLY, by NAME) it is bound to have some consequences.

Americans have a long history of doing their “diplomacy” through these attacks which are later “explained away” under different guises. Usually the recipients get the message.

Two such things are the US attack on the Chinese Embassey in Belgrade during the Serbian war, and the US attacks on Al-Jazeera offices _after_ they had been informed specifically of the positions of these.

Just another take on this really strong and strange response at this particular time.

it is imperative…that musharaff goes immediately…and the coalition democratic forces locate their future foreign policy strategy before the bumreeki prezidential elections. this latest move…needs to be adequately addressed. but with this shameless pervert baysharaff sitting in the army house …it probably wont happen.(kayani…save your institution before the people save IT, take a few more steps to permanently remove army role in politics)

kayani…locate your institution in the proper scheme of a deomcratic nation…salute your PM…not the president of bumreeka

@tk

your take is very valid…this is the way the bumreekis are known to operate.

@TK

“When he sits on a platform, and lets someone talk sh!t to the american president (DIRECTLY, by NAME) it is bound to have some consequences.”

Kia baat. Kahaan ki kari kahaan milae hai janab na.

If that is the case, then Iran should have been eliminated from the face of the earth a long time ago because its president gives statements at extreme of extreme from very start of its tenure.

@poola: you’re forgetting one thing:

Iran is NOT America’s b!tch. while “dil dil pakistan, jaan jaan pakistan” _IS_ .

Big difference. I will not explain the parameters of PK being a BTCH of UK & US.

It is about power relationships and positions of nations within them. Iran overthrew the yoke when they uprooted the US control structures. We on the other hands have allowed their agencies to operate freely in the country for the last 8 years. (as mentioned by our recently converted Jurnails who seemed to have found religion after a life of sin)

@poola

there is room for a diversity of views? yes?

one can accept the possiblity of tk’s take…and thus accept it as one explanation to what unfolded…

as for iran…the bumreekis lost them in 1973…its only those they haven’t lost..(as in the subservient faujistan) that they try to fOk with the kind of tactics that TK alludes to!

1973…when was the iranian revolution?? may be wrong about the year.

They have started now attacking Army people. I am also quite sure that more to come. they attcked bajawar agency, pakistan took the blame on themseleves, they got brave enough, started bombing waziristan, pakistani officials were quiet, though later on accepted that Americans are doing these attacks inside our borders with their consents. this cowardly stance from Pakistan was enough for American to understand that these would still be doing nothing even if we start killing their soldiers..more to come..shame shame

@TK

TK sb. Pakistanis are not America ’s Bitch but your so called leaders (Ahmed Muakhtar, Rehman Malik, Hussain Haqqani, Sheikh Rasheed, Gardari, Ahmed Mukhtar, Mush).

People never wished to live like that.

@Poola

It’s not only DM who is talking from his back, look what our Ambassador had to say. (I posted it yesterday as well, sorry @d-min)

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN1127920220080611

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Pakistan does not view a U.S. air strike that killed 11 Pakistani soldiers at a border post near Afghanistan as an intentional hostile act , Pakistan’s ambassador to the United States said on Wednesday.

Ambassador Husain Haqqani rejected U.S. assertions that the U.S. forces had coordinated with Pakistan as they mounted the strike during a counter-offensive against Islamist militants.

But he also told Reuters the incident was not expected to cause Pakistan to reconsider its relationship with Washington despite strong protests in Islamabad , where the U.S. ambassador was summoned for a meeting with the foreign ministry.

@poola: I IDID NOT say the Pakistani Nation, I said Pakistan, and I meant the pakistani Security State (which is the grotesqute child of the machination of imperial and colonial powers).

Pakistani awam do not figure into this. And I agree with you on the people you mentioned .. they are 2nd tier b!tches…

you see, Army jurnails and bureaucracy (The Kleptocracy) is “Bumreeka”’s b!tch. These people are the Kleptocracy’s b1tches.. and the pakistani’s in general are _their_ b1tches… so they are quite removed from this chain of “b1tchness” ..;)

Also, @savage has a point… but you alluded to it as well (IMO)

Unbecoming on part of a Defense Minister

As a result of recent air and ground attacks by the Afghan and allied
forces is a severe violation of international rules, in which Pakistan has
lost precious lives, the recent statement by a political Defense Minister
that our forces can not fight against NATO forces, therefore, we are obliged
to participate in war against terrorism.

It is highly unbecoming on part of a politician by making such a comparison
with NATO forces and indicating the compulsion, which is dragging Pakistan
to co-operate on (so-called) ‘war on Terrorism’.

It is highly unbecoming on part of a defense minister by saying that our
forces are unable to defend our sovereignty.

Probably Afghan people have a very strong army, who are challenging foreign
occupation and fighting for their Independence.

The unworthy defense minister must be very clear that our people and forces
are quite capable of defending our sovereignty. If he (a defense minister)
feels incapacitated to defend our boundaries, he must quit the office. He is
not worthy of being a member of a party whose founder had historically
said, “We will fight for our sovereignty even if we have to eat grass”. and also
“I will serve the country even if it kills me”

Any modern weapon expert here?

Many of Pakistani TV channels’ footage shows that area affected by bombs were incinerated. The trees and shrubs were burned. I assume, the bodies of soldiers must have been left to a few ponds of bare bones?

The US video shows an instantaneous plume of gases, which dissipated immediately. Can anyone tell us what kind of weapons could have been used? Incendiary devices? White phosphorus?

@Ikram ul Haq
“our forces can not fight against NATO forces, therefore, we are obliged
to participate in war against terrorism”
And don’t forget he said since we can not fight them, we will just ask for compensation…

Let me also point out what he was saying last week:
US drone attacks not violating sanctity of Pak borders, says Defence Minister
“Gujrat ( Pakistan ), June 6 (ANI): US troops are not violating the sanctity of Pakistani borders while using pilotless drones to hit Al-Qaeda hideouts in the countrys tribal areas, Pakistan Defence Minister Ahmed Mukhtar has said.

Apparently justifying the unmanned drone attacks on Pakistani soil, the minister said that the US had claimed to have killed senior Al-Qaeda operatives in Damadola. A drone attack on the village on May 14 claimed 12 lives, who, according to locals, were children and women, while security forces in Afghanistan claimed top Al-Qaeda militants were killed in the fourth attack on the village, he added….”

You know he is RIGHT. This really is a slip-up on his part. This once again proves my theory that ALL these attacks by drones are being carried out by drones based in Pakistan since 2005 at least (and not just january 2008 as Ahmed Rashid just ‘revealed’). So since these drones are taking off from within our borders, attacking within our territory, and returning to their base right here in Pakistan, technically speaking these drone attacks certainly are “not violating sanctity of Pak borders” (since they do not cross a border)

Simple CUT. HANG MUSHAREF!!! INSHALLAH. AMEEN AMEEN.

America the Detested: The Pakistan Airstrikes
….Further, it was announced by the Pentagon that the attack that killed soldiers in blatant violation of Pakistan’s sovereignty was “a legitimate strike in self-defence.” One can only regard such utterances with contempt, because those who spoke in such a way, and those who ordered them to say what they did, have no concept of loyalty to a friendly country. Nor, for that matter, do they take the slightest heed of international law and custom. The Pentagon quickly distributed a video showing an attack that was said to be a strike on an “enemy” position. There was no indication of where it was, when it was, what ordnance was used, or results of the attack. It was a fatuously amateur exercise in attempted damage control. And of course, later, in the inevitable reassessment (for which read : “We’ve been found out and had better think up a more believable version of the lies we told”), it was revealed that “a US Air Force document indicates bombs were dropped on buildings near the border, and Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman conceded there may have been another strike that occurred outside the view of the drone’s camera.”

Yes : like the one that killed 11 Pakistani soldiers in “self-defence”. (Major Akbar, the regular army officer who was killed, was an fine soldier. He leaves a widow and two daughters, aged two and eight months. Any army that suffered such a loss by reason of an attack from a ‘friendly’ nation would be understandably angry.)

Pakistan’s Prime Minster, Mr Gilani, took a courageous and properly patriotic stance in condemning the attack when he said “We will take a stand for sovereignty, integrity and self-respect and we will not allow our soil [to be violated];” and Islamabad’s formal protest to Washington stated that the “senseless use of air power against a Pakistani border post” is “totally unacceptable”. The army was forthright in observing, again rightly, that the airstrikes that killed the Frontier Corps soldiers and an army major were a “completely unprovoked and cowardly act,” which was the sort of statement one would expect from the Chief of the Army Staff, an upright and civilized man, and his spokesman, Major General Athar Abbas (ditto).

It was slightly disturbing, however, that Pakistan’s representative in Washington, the highly intelligent Mr Hussain Haqqani, who has lived in the US for seven years and is still a professor at Boston University, was apparently instructed to deny that the government in Islamabad had considered the airstrikes as an intentional hostile act. He told Reuters that the incident would not cause Pakistan to reconsider its relationship with Washington, “but rather find ways of improving that partnership”.

So there appear to be two messages coming from Islamabad about the killing of Pakistani citizens : “totally unacceptable” and “cowardly act” on one hand ; and an opening to “improving partnership” on the other. But what partnership, what trust, can there be with a nation whose artillery, drones and bombers regularly kill citizens of Pakistan, be they civilians or soldiers?

There is little wonder that Bush America is so hated throughout the Muslim world – and elsewhere, come to that……….

Another feather in the cap of our Air Force — They can’t even stop helicopters…

Another lebonon in its making…. where state will do nothing while its people are bombed.

I am not sure why people think we have a professional army!! bunch of thugs, crooks and looters
Now they cant build proper bunkers cause they might be captured by mullas and if they dont make proper bunkers then america will bomb them. Just imagine what these chore commanders have done to ordinary soldiers!! and this will have a huge impact on ordinary soldiers moral.
Their only concern is DHA’s and clubs.