Free version added.

dearda meharbani….mara

AA isn’t convincing, he know that he made a strategic mistake. Look at his boddy language it is defensive. Out of 200,000 it easy to generate a pool of 25,000 for dharna and there were participant ready to sit in.

aoa

dead end for lawyers movement in regards to re in statement of judges.

Talat is doing an interesting dance between showing frustration with the lawyer’s movement for its inability to produce ‘results’ and discrediting it altogether.

@tk

where i agree that a dharna may have gotten violent…but listening to AA ..for the second time…i am also in a bit of doubt…why cant he accept that he made a mistake..is he becoming bigger then the cuase..

notice the number of times he uses ‘mein’ and then paints over it with a collective decision..

i still think he is the brain…the mouthpiece….but he will alienate more and more…from his cause…

and this is not bangkok….so that wont be a fair comparision.

and he keeps talking about ..if the judges accept the 29…proposal…then the movement is over with.

I support aa…but i have questons.

we shld salute lawyers for mobilizing people from karachi to peshawar and getting 200000 people in isd….it was a real hard work in intense hot weather….it was peaceful ….and we shld also give credit to govt ..for security and peace.
y are we getting so pessimistic.
those who are in favour of dharna are not realizing the pitfalls of dharna
1-dharna would be a sign of opression against the 80 day old govt which would not be accepted in good spirits by ppp voters specially in sindh.
2-the elaanejang against new govt would set a bad presedence in future and ppp jyaalaas would take revenge to future govts as well
3-dharna could instigate some uncalled for incident by sher pesend people around…there could be some dhamaka ,fightings,arrests etc.
4- we need to get out of this adventurous mentality and shld understand that peaceful marches have always been impactful all around the world .this march has also achieved its goals in letting the govt know that they can’t back track from reinstatement of judges..which is obvious in zardari’s tone now….btw he is meeting NS tomorrow.
ppp wants to sort this matter urgently now.
so its a success

AA is acting like Mushy who is denying ground reality. He must admit people sentiments and acknowledge that it wasn’t 200 people who were advocating dharna. It is different story those 200 were more passionate the rest sitting in the crowd.

@kafka8: yeah he seems to be on an ego trip.. I’m not liking this… I think he should just come right out and accept it. I don’t agree with this riding the two boats attitude though… In the end he’s an upperclass man. His interests are with the ruling classes.

I just wish they had done better expectation management and not led everyone down the garden path … technically he’s right.. but that also makes him sound like zardari.. (who is also ‘technically’ right).

I hope the awareness of the Pakistani’ people was raised and they won’t be disheartened because it was their victory (at least the ppl of north punjab)… nyuk nyuk!

@rafi

i wouldn’t go that far….AA may have made one mistake which he cannot come to terms with……but jurnail pervert is an encylopedia of travesty!!!!!

@kafka8 , @TK
haha … I am loving it…

Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed and the anomaly revealed as both beginning and end.

haha..

koi yaar jaan say guzra , koi hoosh say na guzra
yeh nadeem-e-yak do saghar meray haal tak na pohnchay.

good interview, it shows they are unbaised. talat is asking hard question which aitzaz is finding hard to answer.

well done Talat..as usual talat at his best…i do not think there is any other anchorperson who can conduct interview better than Talat…

talat raise important point which i also mentioned in my previous posts about symbolic Dharna..i have all the sympathies with Aitzaz but Aitzaz could avoid all this criticism by symbolic dharna of 4,5 hours just to register the protest when parliament session was undergoing..anyway let us see how many people come for trian march..but talat is right at the moment people are in no mood to go for another march and Aitzaz know that..thats why he said “Pehlay Mein Nay Confidence build karna hay apna” in a way he is admitting that to certain extent peoples confidence on him is shattered……

anyway Best of luck Aitzaz

Let me explain the above quote , as most of the time I feel I confuse people. The quote actually applies to your remarks , not on this program which I have not seen. Fundamental flaw and anomaly referred is in your (meaining all those who currently are in one way or the other finding it hard to accept/swallow AA’s decision) arguments and the moment of truth arrived on the morning of 14th March 2008 , more such moments of truth are going to come very soon. That is why I than quoted Faiz , who so beautifully puts how I view most of my pkpolitics comrades who are just nadeem-e-yak do saghar (companions only in fight before 18th February)

@peja

dont know about tk…but simplify it further for me….i may be a young reader of douglas hofstader…but i guess that ain’t good enough.

It ’s not convincing. No doubt he made mistake. The only way he can restore his credibility is:

1 - Disconnect himself from PPP
2 - Accept mistake and apologize (like Imran Khan)

but the fulfillment of both require courage and character which I suspect AA lacks.

@poola

it pains me that anti ppp critics of AA….race to character assasinatiion. of this kind ‘require courage and character which I suspect AA lacks.’

i ask you…which lawyer single handedly made it a force to reckon with…!!!!??

criticize…we are…but ‘tehzeeb aur tamadon’ kay daman ko thamay rhako…

regards..

but ‘tehzeeb aur tamadon’ kay daman ko thamay rhako…

this may have been uncalled for….apologies

First of all must tell you that I have been strong admirer of Aitzaz Ahsan until 13th June, 2008 and also started to like PPP Zardari the day Murree Declaration was signed.

But it is also fact that I am not happened to be blind supporter like most of Jahil Jiyalas and always like to keep my right to criticize someone if he/she makes a mistake.

By the way, it would be nice for you to read Javed Chaudhary ’s today (17 June 08) article at http://www.express.com.pk.

my misreading of your intentions……….i stand corrected

I think Aitizaz Ahsan demonstrated true leadership qualities by not succumbing to minority pressure for dharna.

Had he made the blunder of staging a dharna, all the media, politicians and public would have criticized and ridiculed him for a dismal display of strength, with only a hundred people participating in it, and the number would have reduced by the hour.

Aitizaz Ahsan looks like a naughty guy who was caught stealing candies from a jar in a mom n pop store. He is not convincing at all and all of his statements are contradictory to his own statements. Thanks GOD at least he didn’t use the MLK reference today !

Talat was right on target and has certainly emerged as a dynamic political analyst/anchor.

What a pitty, Aitizaz still thinks that it was a lawyers show and he is not admitting that the show’s strength was due to ppl coming from PMLN, PTI and JI.

On one side he calls PTI and SAC youngsters as “BALWAI (urdu word)” and then he says that he is a senior person and understands these “JOSHELAY (urdu word) jawans”.

I do not think that Pakistan Tehreek-insaf or Student Action Committee members participate in this “useless movement” after this “29 formula”….. and after Aitizaz’s “Balwai” comments…

Aitizaz says that the judges issue is not a political one and then five minutes later brings politics in his talk to explain his judiciary movement….. !!!

Sad to See Aitizaz Going Down Like This. Just Admit That it Was a Mistake instead of using political manuevars…. I would rather listen a person like Justice Wajih-ud-din (BTW who was not even invited after when he contested presidential election upon Aitizaz’s request).. this shows that “there was something black in the planning right from the start…. and NO wonder all the top administrative BRASS of Islamabad knew about “NO Dharna” except that woman who was asked to travel from Karachi in June …….!!

Aitizaz himself said that the target is parliement and then on the long march nite he talked about targeting Musharaff……. !!

Shame on u Aitizaz now u r criticizing Media just like Asif Zardari and Musharaff & Company….

“Do Not Sketch GODS Out of Tainted Politicians…. U Stupid Awam !”

“Deception is the Biggest Political Weapon”

I think that PTI and JI had more flags than their supporters in the long march. It was a show of strenght by Mian Nawaz Sharif and his PML-N.

Mian day naray wajjan gay
Tay piplay saray nassan gay

As a result of the long march, the mad dictator is about to vanish.

http://www.pmln.org.pk/news_urdudetail.php?id=505

shame on the mad dictator and his supporters.

everyone, we must counter the negative propaganda against the long march at:

http://www.ahmedquraishi.com/article_detail.php?id=338

please offer your suggestions and ideas.

@peja: I think you read too much nostradamus. You sound like him too.. Hoftstaedr or no.. this thing just doesnt make sense.

And I’m fine with it.

@kafka8: It means Asif Zardari is the commander in chief of the battle against the establishment and Musharraf is the most sincere anti-establishment democrat we ever saw.

Also, it means you’re a fool. You just don’t know it.

@Peja

“how I view most of my pkpolitics comrades who are just nadeem-e-yak do saghar (companions only in fight before 18th February) ”
—————–

Even though I agree with you, there’s this something else hidden behind reason and logic. Its primeval and visceral. There should have been a dharna. You gotta break some eggs if you wanna make an omelette.

(As I never let go of any opportunity to make pop culture references (hehe), here it goes. My message to you:)

[Southern Drawl]

An instant of purity is worth a lifetime of your lies Peja.

You know about realization? I mean, all this, is just illusion, Maya, Yin Yang. Mr. Kurd says,”the moment of realization…the moment of realization…is worth…a thousand prayers.”

You think I’m crazy? I don’t think I’m any crazier than you are. I’m extremes, dark and Iight. You know that. That’s your shadow on the wall behind you. You can’t get rid of your shadow,can you, Peja?

You know, the only thing that kills the demon?

Justice.

You’ll never understand. Me and you, Peja, we’re not even the same species.

I used to be you. . .then I evolved. From where you’re standing, you’re a man. From where I’m standing, you’re an ape. I’m here. . .I’m right here. . . and you. . .you’re somewhere else, man.

You say why? I say why not?

———————–
hint: It has Tommy Lee Jones, music from NFAK and the story is from Tarantino. Great great movie.

@mbokhari: did you just call me a pu$$ey?

btw… I’m all for storming the bastille, but WTF are you supposed to do with women and children in the crowd.

I’m starting to have doubts about AA’s stance.. the opposition to his position is so overwhelming…

maybe it would have been better had they done a sit-in … dammnit!!! I dunno!

Who’s Tarantino?

@mbokhari: Also, “nyuk! nyuk! nyuk!”

@TK
did you just call me a pu$$ey?
———————————–
Depends. If you are called “Peja”?

You know its so awfully confusing. This identity business…Who’s to say who is male, who is female. Who is straight, who is gay. Who is patriotic, who is RAW. Who is TK, who is Peja….

I mean, why can’t we all get along?

[haha...hehe...hoho]

Anyway..

WTF are you supposed to do with women and children in the crowd.

I proposed taking them as slaves/war booty but some Mullah told me you can’t do that in these “liberal” times….Pffff…I suppose they could have been used as human shields. After all, whats kosher for brothers in Lebanon is Halal for us. [Hear me brotha! Hallelujah!]

maybe it would have been better had they done a sit-in

Yes they shoulda. Imagine live appeals going on TV for food and shelter and half of Pakistan showing up to support the lawyers. A live full time circus. Can you imagine a better media coup than this? CNN and BBC would have been all over it while AA would be talking of a kala-coat revolution like the Orange Revolution in Ukraine. Progressive artists and musicians like Junoon etc showing up and entertaining the crowds. Remember this is a Pakistan that really came together during the Earthquake.

All AA needed to counter the PTI/SAC people was THREATEN an end to the Long March. He should have addressed them directly: We make a dharna, a peaceful dharna, no hullaR bazi, no surrounding the parliament. If you do anything funny, we dissovle the dharna.

p.s. Tarantino? You mean you don’t know who Tarantino is? How dare you commit this blasphemy? And I quote from the Holy Scriptures of Pulp Fiction, verse 420: “For those who deny Tarantino’s knowledge, are truly worthless droppings of a very tiny elephant. Verily, Tarantino is all-vice and most-curseful.”

The scene where Peja interviews me about the Dharna and the INSTANT OF PURITY….hehe

Personally I find the parody of the Scriptures as distasteful and lacking respect. Any comment?

Once again I would refer everyone to the French Revolution-

In 1789 after the elections in France, Mirabeau was the leader of the Republicans and all the supporters of the the King said that he was too radical and too extreme while the Revolutionaries called him a sissy.
Well in 1791 Mirabeau died- and the revolution was taken over by Robespierre, Marat, Danton and St.Just who were responsible for sending of the King and Queen and many thousands others to the guillotine.

If Aitazaz is now somehow removed from the scene- then all hell will break loose and perhaps those that are disappointed that DHARNA did not occure - wanted to have a confrontation with the GOVT : and the police . Of course I can understand why the newsmedia is disappointed as they did not have the show they were looking for.
I would like to advise the News Anchors to accompany the Taliban in Afghanistan and they can see a lot of action !

@mianji:

Why do you object to my parody of Hindu Scriptures? I had to study it in comparative religions but I have come to admire it. It’s not Holy. And it’s not Scripture. It has some truly funny moments (no offense to any Hindus) It lacks the clarity and beauty of Tauheed but it has plenty of beautiful passages about the human condition.

I find this particularly relevant to the Dharna issue. Please read it carefully.

Srimad Bhagavad-Gita, Chapter II, verse 2 and 3:

When Arjuna surrenders himself at the feet of the Lord, Sri Krishna says, “O Brave one, why this infatuation at this hour! Why have you given yourself to this unmanliness and cowardice? Do not think that by your high talk of ‘renunciation and retiring to forest’ people would adore you and call you noble and intelligent. On the contrary, for centuries to come, blame would be put on you for running away from the battle field. Generation after generation, people would laugh at you and make fun of your unmanly flight.”

“In such a crisis, whence comes upon thee, O Arjuna, this dejection, un-Aryan-like, disgraceful, and contrary to the attainment of heaven?”

“Yield not to unmanliness, O son of Kunti! Ill doth it become thee. Cast off this mean faint-heartedness and arise, O scorcher of thine enemies, and become death, the destroyer of worlds”

@mbokhari: the war booty rule still applies (you just have to talk to the right mow-lau-naw! btw did you know that quite a few patriotic indian mau-lau-naw’s are in Afghanistan sending jihadi’s into Pakistan who are creating trouble in our areas.. which we are too incompetent to do anything about?

mau-lau-naw!

My take has been that they wanted to do it but changed it at the last minute becuase of the rowdiness of the “Seige Crowd” … but then again.. a lot of people have raised some good points… including yourself… I also was surprised to come back and see the rally had ended… I was expecting it to go on.. although I was wondering how they were gonna do it .. given that Aitezaz and the lawyers are famous for taking 40 hours to drive 5 kilometers.
and after such a long march.. starting the jalsa at 4 .. with kids, old ppl, women, children in the crowd ..how do you continue?

If anything, NS should be blamed for this. He shouldn’t have said anything. He should have let AA take care of the cancellation.

This is how I think it happend.

- AA and company wanted to do a dharna, but weren’t too sure .. still debating.
- NS requested them to not do it and they sort of agreed.
- IK and Qazi, upon hearing this took off sulking… (but forgot to tell their workers to behave)
- NS did his speech and then punctured the balloon prematurely.. alerting the josheelay nojavans (I suspect those ppl, but not suspecting them here for argument’s sake)
- josheelay nojawan, feeling the march may not achieve it’s purpose, start rioting.
- AA, upon seeing this, starts to get more and more paranoid … and makes a decision to quit while he’s ahead.(lawyer leaders start getting the idea out from the podium)
- josheelay nojawans get more desperate, making AA (and other leaders?) more convinced that “something is up”
- AA comes on and basically wastes his speech on pacifying the crowd and announces the end of march.
- The march falls on its face with a thud.

I don’t agree with the last part, I think the march was more than a final orgasmically satisfactory ending (like it happens in hollywood — though Kurd made it sound like it was going to be so) …

So now, what do we do? bitch and moan about it and demoralize the lawyers movement? or take the positive points and move ahead? I think there should be a debrief and root cause analysis (honest) and then next-steps should be given by the PBC.

BTW I totally agree with you that had they decided to stay, they would have recieved more than what they needed for their sustenance … this I’m sure of… this is why I don’t buy his “supplies” argument. This would have been a media coup. But had it turned into a bloodbath with women and children..

then who would have been to blame? Lawyers were derided for Sher-Afgan incident which was patently the creation of the agencies.. how would they have survived _this_ kind of a massacre???

If you had even the possiblity of such a thing happening at the end of such a spectacular showing.. what would you do? I’m not one to complain after an un-eventful landing that the flight was ‘boring’ … I think it was about the march and not the dharna. But he should have done a better job on the expectation managment side and that’s where he and the lawyer’s movement in general got bitten.

@shimatoree: I tend to agree with your pov. AA also pointed to it in his interview with Talat.. ie; .. ‘don’t listen to the peaceful crowd and you may get your wish for a confrontation’

I think he’s walking a fine line…

Cause isn’t above personality. We need goods doesn’r matter who deliver. People are very smart they will find alternate leadership (may be IK) if AA shows signs of weakness.

Commenting on Talat’s interview or cross examination technique-

I think it was pitiful and pathetic and very diappointing. The main purpose for an interview by an intelligent and well educated TV person is getting the facts out and to do it in a respectable fashion.
Talat failed on both counts. I wonder if he trying to be an active participant in policy makers of the lawyers movement. What esp: irked me was the repeated questions at the end about the timing of the next move from the lawyers and he was asking such silly question from the best lawyer in the country whose very profession if argument and all pressure including imprisonment have failed to weaken his resolve.

It was not an interview that Talat can be or should be proud of.

@TK

AA should not have listened to NS. NS is a politician after all. I think the only reason NS may have buckled is, he got a message from GHQ that wind it up yourself or we are coming. But then again, the 20 point agreement between lawyers and Interior ministry is also worrying. Basically, the reason sheedon ki paalti allowed the Long March was, they had been given iron clad guarantees about no dharna. So, NS doesn’t enter into it. AA is not a kaka and he does not say choochi for roti.

The whining and b!tching is for a reason. The reason is: the lawyers haven’t explained their future program.

My strategy would be, if I may: This is all a media blitz and lawyers need to play by the rules. Give the appearance of an internal house cleaning. Aitzaz resigns and Kurd takes over. The bar associations take this as a renewal of their efforts and a vindication of their stand.

The sheeda paalti gets the message; The gloves are off.

@ TK

I have an idea whose time has come-

What if 100,000 lawyers or just men went to Islamabad on constitution ave and suddenly came out STARK NAKED as a protest-( of course un anounced) against the incompetence of the present set up.

Also one would discretely leak it to the TV guys so they can show it on live.

HA HA

@shimatoree

You are a sick little puppy
I think I’d rather take the PCO judges than see Ali Ahmad Kurd or Athar Minallah naked….

Believe me, nobody wants to see Athar Minallah naked. Not even his wife.

AA
was a good leader in the minds of ppl
but
when he decided against DHARNA
suddenly he becomes a bad man ……
Y we r so emotional?
No doubt he is a great leader
and
he leaded a peaceful long march very well.
I know some ppl r in the favour of DHARNA
but
we have to consider all his(AA) efforts 4 long march.
we should not think about fight
WE JUST WANT A BETTER PAKISTAN.

As discussed, analysed and paralyzed, there could have been a number of reasons dharna did not happen…but it does not matter. The movement has not ended, in fact it has proven to have gathered traction.

What did happen was that for the first time a completely non violent march of hundreds of thousands of people took place to protest an issue of law and fundamental rights. The common man, woman and child were out on the streets to ask for the restoration of judges. This is what Aitezaz and the lawyers have done. The legal community has successfully harnessed the strength of political parties such as the
PML-N and leveraged it for national gain.

Do you remember when only a few months, nay weeks, ago the Q-league and the PPP would not tire of saying, but the common man wants atta and bijli, not judges! Where are they now?

Look at the progress in the movement, and the success of it so far in building momentum and support. It’s completely unjustified to only moan about the dharna.

I am willing to acknowledge that were one to think of the long march as a Drama or Tableau, the ending wasn’t satisfactory, especially after reaching a crescendo. So the ratings of the show dropped because of its insipid ending.

But this was Real, with real men, women, and children. And so an undramatic ending is better than a violent end. The Point Has Been Made Anyway!

Disappointing performance by Talat. Just trying to put Aitezaz on trial for the sake of it. Asking the man who caused hundreds of thousands to march to Islamabad in this heat, as to why he didn’t get 50 feet closer to parliament building, why he didn’t go towards army house…..

Generally he does good programs, but today he had no material

talat was brutal….

Ridiculous pushing and questioning on Talat’s part. Again and again saying the lawyers did not meet ‘peoples expectations’. This is utter non sense. AA has explained several times that he and the other leaders did not think it appropriate for several reasons that he’s explained time and again. It is the leaders’ prerogative AND responsibility to take these decisions. AA has even justified these decisions with lucid, rational, solid arguments. But Talat seems not to have anything of note up his sleeve today and therefore keeps repeating himself.

And what was this Kurd business…..incorrectly implying that Kurd is quiet because he disagrees. Many in the media itslef were witness to Kurd’s illness as a result of dehydration.

For all those who think Talat was a bit hard on AA, well lets analyze the point of conflict. What was the difference between a Jalsa and Long March, none what so ever. Both arrange huge transports to get ppl togather at a certain point, The speakers give fiery speeches and then all go their marry way. Gov is facilitating the location and even arranging the stage. N league is in big with transport and human numbers. It was a motorized Jalsa.
Not taking anything away from lawyers movement for conducting a very impressive show but then it was a goal-less long march. What did it achieve ?
1- 29 Judges have been accepted? Waznt that already agreed between PPP and NS?
2- Musharaf is still there? 32 Karor of Budget this year.
3- AA facing the music.

CONFRONTATION is not an option at the movement for anyone who wants to change pakistan for better and so is the case wid lawyers(AA other leaders).
This was suppose to be wake up call for ASIF ALI GHADDARI ,but did he wake up?i dont think so.
Therefore CONFRONTATION may become inevitable wid the passage of time even for the peaceful LAWYERS of pakistan.

AA has spoiled the chance. He should have done …………
1. Asked each tehseel bar counsel to volunteer 2 Lawyers to join the Dherna.
2. District bar should have volunteer 2 people from their district.
3. High court bars have volunteer 10 people for Dharna.
SCBA should have arranged tents and camps for dharna. These many lawyers should have announced that they will continue protesting in front of parliament.
Rest of the people should have gone home.
all political parties should have their camps intact there with small amount of workers participating in dharna.

Now
every day after the Long march, rallies should have been comming and visiting those dharna participants.
this would have kept the issue alive.
Now it is impossible to create a tempo.

Opportunity is lost.

despite of “DHARNA”. I have a question for AA and Lawyers movement leader.

1) Can’t they pass a resolution before ending the Long March.?(like Pakistan resolution). Which might guide us in future.

@mobkhari

Your explanation: mbokhari on June 18th, 2008 12:55 am is weak.

What you wrote here sounds like our own holy book thatn Hindu’s. Any ways, all Scriptures must be respected.

mbokhari on June 18th, 2008 12:28 am

And I quote from the Holy Scriptures of Pulp Fiction, verse 420: “For those who deny Tarantino’s knowledge, are truly worthless droppings of a very tiny elephant. Verily, Tarantino is all-vice and most-curseful.”

_________

mr bokhari, Or perhaps what we have read about you is right? You are undergoing a faith crisis? Can you spare this forum from your misguided mentality.

Mian sahib roars like a lion:

“We as-ked you (Musharraf) to quit with honour after the election but you didn’t,” Sharif told the crowd. “Now people have given a new judgment for you… they want you to be held accountable.”

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Sharif_suggests_Musharraf_be_hanged/articleshow/3129861.cms

@justice4all
CONFRONTATION is certainly not a four letter word as we are led to believe (It should not be made a no-go idea). The only issue is WHEN? At a time of your choosing — or theirs…

@TK @mbokhari, @kafka8
It is very hard for me to explain in prose what I have been explaining for months specially since 18th of Februaruy. You know I always take refuge in Faiz’s poetry in such time… This one is very pertinent for Aitzaz and his comerades (I am one of them )

Phir phriray ban kay meray tan badan kee dhajiyaan
sheher kay deewar-o-dar ko rang pehnanay lageen
phir kaf alooda zubanain madh-o-zam kee qumchian
meray zehn-o-goosh kay zakhmoon per barsaanay lageen

phir nikal aaye hawisnaakoon kay raqsaan taaifay
dard mand-e-ishq per thattay laganay kay liye
phir duhal karnay lagay tash-heer-e-ikhlas-o-wafa
kushta-i-sadq-o-safa ka dil jalanay kay liye

sorry for bold letters above , as I missed the closing tag.

@pejamistri

kooch-e-bazaar OR koocha-o-bazar?

—reminds me of an interesting joke reported by Pitras Bukhari. It’s about a female singer who did ‘justice’ with Ghalib by singing:

qaid-o-hayat-o-band-o-gham asl maiN donon aik haiN

Pitras Bukhari said to her: Either correct the verse or count correctly.

Let me correct than
koocha-e-bazaar say phir chun kay raiza raiza khwab
hum yoonhi pehlay kee soorat joornay lag jaain gay

@dmin
See if you can enable UTF for the comments so that people can post comments in urdu if needed.

koocha-e-bazaar = koocha-o-bazaar
(copy and paste is always bad

@peja: I tend to agree with your poetic liscence thingy… I think AA is being put in a tight spot by his detractors, and ‘the democratic forces’ are not helping by joining in the cacophony started by his detractors.

I agree with your characterization of AA and his predicament right now, but every time I agree with your sentiments of egalite, fraternite, superior quality of 2-ply tissue, you go and call Asif Zardari your democratic leader par excellance.

Which leads me to believe that you are nothing but a sophisticated government operative on a mission to destroy PPP by leveraging the visceral hatred people feel towards Asif Zardari.

“Yeh masaail-e tassavvuf, yeh teraa bayaan GHAALIB
tujhay ham vali samajhtay, jo nah baadah khwaar hota”
…
.

@TK hain aaj aap soey nahin? last thing before I logged off you were online and here you are again? hee hee..not that I have a problem with it ..just wondering..

Getting so dejected with these lawyers. They are so disorganized. They do not understand how to use today’s media. All their rallies are over 10 hours late. In all of their rallies they insist on the CJ to go through traffic stopped by a few thousand while millions go to sleep waiting for the CJ address on TV.

4 o’clock in the morning the main speech starts… Jinab munir Malik saheb, Jinab Justice x saheb, jenab justice y saheb, jinab izzat maab …….. 15 minutes of salutations. … By each speaker. Boooring!

They keep shouting through all the Namaz specially Fajar and then want help from Allah.

Then they are abusive in their speeches. Then they keep shouting in their functions through all of the salats and then expect Allah to help them.

Who was the nut driving that truck into the Majma? Why they have to be so arrogant.

Unfortunately all these are the symptoms of a destroyed education system due to your years of military rule.

Guys,
Some of you are criticizing AA for not going for Dharna…
In one of the programmes which I watched yesterday(i think bolta pakistan), even Ali Kurd was saying that this was a reasonable decision…

what kind of Bezameera & Kameena this ‘Nazir Naji’ is!!!! read his stupid article in jang today….

http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/jun2008-daily/18-06-2008/col3.htm

@TK
It is difficult for me to deny the fact that I believe in the fact that “AZ is the chief commander in the battle against establishment” , and due to my principle of not criticizing any political/democratic leader it is also very difficult for me to criticize his (AZ’s) leadership. However it does not stop me to help other democratic forces which have difference of opinion with AZ and have better realization of the importance of this immensely significant period that we are passing through. I just finished watching this program and was glad to see how AA explained the position of AZ in this chessboard, AZ carries the key to the restoration of judiciary , his decision is very important , however he is not the only stakeholder in this issue , there are several more , and I know that it is not AZ whom AA (and the lawyers who think like him) are waging war against. I don’t know if AZ is going to win or loose , I even don’t know if it is start of winning , or end of loosing

Awara hai phir koh-e-nida per jo bisharat
tamheed-e-mussarrat hai keh tool-e-shab-e-gham hai

But there is no doubt in my mind , that PPP , PMLN, Lawyers, ANP, IK (Tahreek-i-Insaf) , APDM, Baloch, and thousands and thousands of political workers and their leaders are comrades in arms , they may have different stance , different paths and mutual lack of trust , but one segment (or is it a segment? - establishment) of society considers ALL of them as their enemy. Since AZ is one of them , therefore I respect him. At this point in time he may not be on the right side of the fence , however you know this is not matter of at which side of the fence you are , you are bound to end up fighting with the real enemy, at the moment it is NS & AA who are carrying the sword , AZ may be standing outside the ring , however sooner or later he has to jump in , if he does not than establishment is going to hit him outside the ring (you know they(establishment) are best in foul play) .. remember 1999.

Again it is very hard to explain that despite not agreeing with AZ and almost having a rebellion against him , why I won’t be hitting hard at him. I draw some satisfaction from the fact even AA finds it equally difficult. Can you tell me what he answered when Talat asked him why he does not oppose AZ?

rone se aur ishq me.n bebaak ho gae
dhoe gae ham aise ki bas paak ho gae

Faiz is always there to describe every situation , this poem describes the current rule of “democratic forces” in Pakistan….. all confusion..

darbar mein sitwat-e-shahi kee alamat
darbaan ka assa hai , keh mussanif ka qalam hai

[ darbaan ka assa ---- Rahman Maliks of this world ]

awara hay phir koh-e-nida per jo bisharat
tamheed-e-mussarrat hay keh tool-e-shab-e-gham hai
[ Is the win in sight? ]

jis dhajji ko galyoon mein liye phirtay hain tiflaan
yeh mera greeban hai kay lashkar ka alam hai

[tiflaan -- angry participants of long march
mera greeban -- Aitzaz's greeban ,
lashkar ka alam -- Long march's flag ]

jis noor say hay sheher kee deewar darkhshaan
yeh khoon-e-shaheedan hai kay zar khana-e-jam hai

[ khoon-e-shaheedan -- 27th December, 18th October ,12th May , 9th April
zar khana-e-jam --- mad dictator's happiness ]

halqa kiye bathay rahoo ik shamaa ko yaroon
kuch rooshni baqi tu hay har chand kay kam hai
[ ik shamaa --- CJ IMC]

@peja: well, I think AZ is trying to talk the talk, but he is severely deficient in the walk-the-walk department. NS is also talking the talk, but I don’t know how he’s going to walk the walk when he gets power. So far, he seems on course.

Personally, I like Shahbaz Sharif, he’s a no-nonsense guy and doesn’t take BS from anyone.. and tries not to give BS to anyone. But plz don’t go on and assume that I wuv SS and therefore must hate AAZ.

I think AAZ has failed on multiple fronts. The only front he’s doing well on is the BullSh1tting front and people have started to call the bluff on that even.

I also don’t subscribe to the “they are politicians, therefore they must be good” line of justification. Being a politician in and of itself doesn’t mean anything. More politicians have betrayed Pakistan than Army jurnails and that is a FACT! I know your defense on this also which goes like, “well I don’t consider them to be politcians” .. hmm that doesn’t ring my bell at least.

This is the same kind of reasoning that would justify even the actions of Hitler, Stalin and Bush… (not to mention pscychopaths like Moshe Dayaan, Begin and Ariel Sharons of this world) … something akin to saying.. well most humans are good by nature, therefore this particular human who also happens to be a serial rapist-slash-murdered must also be good because we just established that humans are generally good in nature.

I don’t know if I’m explaining it right, but exceptions have to be accounted for and AAZ, despite his rhetoric, is not upto par… so far. I see great danger in his actions and his conduct for this nation and ZAB’s party. I fear that he himself maybe the gorbachev that he accused others of being…. maybe it’s my bias against him.. but I had a very good opinion of him in the beginning.. which I have changed after carefully examining his bahaviour in my secret laboratory.

but you see, I consider your approach more deadly because I openly admit I am his critic. You on the other hand claim to ’support him’ but then highlight the most despicable and heinous character and “moral” flaws as his ‘virtues & positives’ …

It’s a subtle but deadly subversion which not only makes people hate AAZ even more than they already do, but it also poisons their minds re: the nature of a PPP ‘jiyala’. It re-enforces their beliefs that jiyala’s are irrational, illogical lemmings who are imprinted at birth and no amount of logic or reasoning can dissuade them from their blind folly.

This is why I’ve said that you are sometimes found messing with unsuspecting people’s heads… And of course I mean it as a compliment and not as a knock…. but some flags need to go up here I think .. red ones…;) nyuk! nyuk!

If AA had no plans for DHARNA then there was no need for Long March.
Blunder by Lawyer leadership.

Missed Golden opportunity.

How many people who have constantly criticised the decision not to stage a sit-in in front of the parliament have ever been given the responsibility that lies today on the shoulders of the lawyers’ community?

How many of you have ever had the power to strenghten or destroy democratic institutions by one little decision of yours?

All the armchair critics here who’ve never been in such hugely sensitive situations find it quite easy to lay blame on Aitzaz Ahsan but have no idea of the complexities involved in this struggle.

You might all hate Zardari and you may be right, but the divide isn’t anywhere near as clear as it was before the elections. There is no longer a dictator calling all the shots, no longer a rubber stamped parliament.

How many here have really studied Pakistani hsitory closely and followed all the major agitation movements in our history which were all loved by the people like this one but eventually led the country, without intention of course, to even worse situations.

So maybe some people need to clam down a bit and stop thinking of themselves as there was no person more knowledgable than them.

It’s right now in difficult times that the lawyers need the support. We all know how easy it is to support when the going is good.

Let’s hope and pray for the success of this movement. May it achieve its goals without any violence from either side, without loss of life, without any destabilisation in the country and without weakening the democratic structures whoever feeble and in need of change they may be.

Assalam-o-Alaikum,

Chaudhry Aitzaz Ahsan, really have command and courage to handle the judiciary issue in a peaceful manner ……… please dont push him so hard on tv talk shows other wise his personality, consistancy and devotion with this noble cause will scattered. He is very seasoned matured lawyer and politician have lots of respect and known in the country as well as abroad after this judiciary crisis in Pakistan.

I like his style, the way he put his logic and confidence which normally most political figure does not have expect Former Prime Minister of Malaysia Muhatir Muhammad.

The process is already started for the restoration of Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry and other honourable judges. I think it is a matter of few days and weeks to see back the reality after this giant long march.

I personally think, the decision of not going toward DHARNA was a wise decision for the participants of long march, for the security and safety of the hundred and thousand of people involved directly and indirectly with this movement. I hope after this gathering, the elected representatives in the parliement from different political parties get clear picture and feelings have for this important national issue of judiciary. An another thing what we saw ……. people of this country dont want to see the present crimal minded President of Pakistan Pervez Musharraf any more on his post, they were openly demanding for his removal and court martial ……… people was also against for providing him on the administration lavel a safe pessage from present co-alation government headed and influenced by Mr. Asif Ali Zardari Co-Chairperson PPP.

Let us ook at his picture and his statement.

After raping this nation for more than 8 years, he does not assume any responsibility whatsover.

http://jang.com.pk/jang/jun2008-daily/18-06-2008/up55.gif

Sharm “Iss” Ko Magar NaheeN Aati

@TK
Personally, I like Shahbaz Sharif, he’s a no-nonsense guy and doesn’t take BS from anyone.. and tries not to give BS to anyone.
I also like NS , he is sincere , popular and mature politician. He has strength and courage to stand up against any dictator.
I also like AZ , he is cunning , soft spoken and courageous politician. He know how to keep people on his side and move along on his own path. No denying the fact that he won’t sccumb to any pressure even if it includes torture and jail.
I also like AA , he is such a genuine leader having both intellect of philosopher and understanding of common man. He is a great orator and unmatched lawyer.
……. so on and so on…

But I know you are expecting this as well……
I also like Mush ……..

but my dear friend , the human needs devil too , just like they need God … I can not live without having a devil , and if it does not exist I am going to invent it … and please also note just like there is one God , I only need one devil .. and in my faith only devil that exists in Pakistan is establishment

mianji:

this picture closely resembles as ‘last dedar’ photo. what a selection

My message to AA would be that he should get his acts together. He was unconvincing in this show: He even didn’t listen to Talat’s questions and started defending himself in a true jiyala style. AA has done very well in the past, and that is why he still has a fair deal of credibility among the masses. If he makes one more Jiyala-move, then I am afraid he will be seen as a spent force.

/Saqib

Dear Fellow Country Men

Talat missed the most important question: Friend of an enemy is enemy, when AA and PPP’s leader don’t have guts to delete one of the most unpopular and unfaithful person of Pakistan, Mr.10% who he admits making solemnly like Mushy. Then how they will convince others???

If Mr. 10% can show everyone in the party his middle finger and ripe off everyone’s opinion for the sake of this curruption cases then how AA will face an analytic Pakistan who keeps asking him

ARE YOU THE FRIEND OF OUR ENEMY? AA SAYS: NO, I CAN’T LEAVE THEM, BZ ITS 40 YEARS OF AFFILIATION, ITS MY LIFE.

Result is AA you are down. Make a decision asap.

Ya.Allah.Khair