Why dosn’t IK understand that this our war not americans on.

There is only one solution to this probelm and its a principled one.
We cannot allow foreigners or Pakistani citizens to use our territory to wage a war against our neighbours or other external forces. We must stick to this principle with such ferocity that everyone understands it clearly. If this basis is established, and we must pay whatever price is required for it, we should be ready for peace anytime anywhere.

I agree with him. We are TRAPPED NOW…………Pakistan will be further doomed!!!

@muhammad777
we must preech to Plestenians, kashmiries, afghans and iraqies to offer hugs, kisses, and flowers to US, Israel, India and offcourse Pak Army when they killed innocent people, women and their kidssss.
and offcourse you are right that tribes are interferencing in afghan territory but no US coz,
-killing of 90 childrens in bajur agency in 2006 by was not the result of US attack
-killing of FC soldiers was not the result of US attack
-killing of women and childrens in many attack were not the result of US attack
actually US did not do anything but praying and bush have become BUDHHHHHaaaa….
great Muhammad sb..greatttttt
Why we don’t consider that operation strategy has been failed as we experienced it last seven years…..why we could not use dialogue policy only for few months?

I fully agree with muhammad777.

We should not let Foreigners like Americans attack our territory with missiles every week. We should also not let them use our airspace for their continuous spy drones that may soon start flying over Peshawar followed by Islamabad and Lahore.

We should also not let PMA trained Pakistani Terrorists to bomb our women and children, and should only allow local law enforcement agencies to capture law breakers, produce them to civilian courts and perform justice as per the law and constitution of Pakistan.

completely agree with Imran Khan on Judges issue and stance against zardari and Musharraf, he has taken great stance on Judges issue….and beg to disagree with Great Khan about tribal issue..i am a supporter of IK but i do not agree with him on war against terror issue…even he used the word “terrorist ” 4-5 times and still he thinks that Govt. should wait till taliban take control of area…if some PTI official reading my comments please convey message to IK that please rethink his views about current situation of NWFP… yes at the end dialogue is the solution but you have to weaken terrorist first and then go for dialouges ..how can you go for dialouges when extremists are in strong position and Govt, is in weak position…dialouge should be on terms of Govt. not on the terms of terrorists…

khan said hum 3 mein na 13 mein…i agree then why to allow Pakistan a battlefield between extremists and USA…..

i think if IK does not change his stance on this issue as his supporter i am afraid that he will lose all his support which he gained in last years about hudges issues and his clean politics…

I don’t understand what IK’s approach is then? Dialogue? despite what mangal bagh and his ppl are doing? I’m in favor of dialogue if there is one basic principle followed that Pakistan’s sovereignty will always be reflected. We can’t have people going across border for “jihad” … because they’ve been doing it for centuries.. etcetea. We’re having to pay a heavy price for it.

I also tend to agree with @mu*777 suggestion.

P.S. Not a single “journalist” bothered to ask Imran Khan as WHY there is NO DEMOCRACY in his so called “movement for justice”… What I find laughable is that people are running around with papers signed by HIM claiming they are president (by what? by his “decree” ??)

And then he goes and accuses Zardaro of running a “kingship”.

sigh.

@democrat, Your Q 1 is deleted due to abusive language. This is last and final warning to you.

Q 2:
What is he trying to suggest?stop the operation and sit on the bum…wow what a strategy?

Q 3:
Why do not Imran ,Qazi and NS negotiate directly with Talibans? Why do not they just volunteer for this job if they are so fu ck in sincere?

Q 4:
Why donot Imran declare a dhurna infront of Supreeme court? Ok garmee buht hay.

Q 5:
What a rubbish approach? He just did not answer Qaiser’s(Geo) question at all. What is the answer to decapitations?

Q 6:
Ok, America ka pressure pur raha hay to……. what should we do? let NATO invade Pakistan and not deal with it ourselves.Is that what IK is suggesting?

Q 7:
Did he give any solution or just was beating about the bush?please highlight.

Q 8:
APDM or Jstice movement kay ghubaray sey huwa nikal gaee hay bhaee.Would you stop crying over the spilt milk?

Q 9:
IK is an embassador of Talibans. Should he not be arrested for terrorising innocent people on behalf of talibans?

Q 10:
What a stupid stand on party’s internal problems?

IK is bcoming irrelevant and insensitive.
By closing eyes you cannot escape the problem.

CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER

WE MUST UNITE AGAINST TALIBANS.

Video coming back in 5 minutes.

Admin

Imran is spot on again.

Writ of Government shouldnt mean writ of CIA so every effort to resist infidel armies including Pakistan army is commendable. For God sake think again who is encroaching whose land. There are some so bedazzled by overreading biased media reports that they lose touch of reality. What are Taliban doing wrong?

Attacking NATO armies ; what are the NATO armies doing there? Burning schools/using guns; why the hell you dont let justice take its course and let there be independent judiciary or are they not human enough to have that previlige.

Dont delude yourself, if Americans think they can get away with it they would not be bothered about killing all Pakistani nation if that means they feel more ’secure’.

@democrat

Imran is simply saying not to REPEAT PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT’S TACTICS because they didn’t work and will not work this time too. If you are so fond of attacking “TALIBANS IN PAKISTAN” then do you support previous government’s strategy on attacking waziristan and other tribal areas when there were no TALIBANS there?
I don’t know if TALIBANS have crossed the border to enter Pakistan but if they have then they need to SEPARATE THEM from the ordinary people because you cannot just attack a village without any PLANNING OR INFO on if the extremists are there.

I respect Imran Khan very much but he is not connected with the reality of the day. To eliminate terroristans/talibans is in our very own interest. I will invite Imran Khan to come to Peshawar and live with us. I bet once he knows he could be abducted for ransom with these criminal terroristans then most probably he will have something better to say. All those leaders who are not affected by the actions of Talibans/Terroristans are advised to experience first hand and then sing the songs of dialogue/peace. Laton kay bhot baton say nahi mantay. Again I respect IK but he need to show some spine. Remember it was the same Maulvi mentality which gave him some insulting drubbing at Punjab Univ campus. Other then that he still need to experience more of the same bigot mentality.

@trimurdar

Now that talibans are knocking at our door and now when army has started the action, we cannot step back whether it is right or wrong.

In his second presidential election, Bush just asked for the votes in the name of continuation of strategy . He just said that a president could not be changed during a war and people voted for him buing his logic although they hated him.

I am not saying that we should keep busharraf. All I am saying is that Pakistan army has started an operation. Let us provide them moral support. Who are they fighting for anyway.

This is 21st century. We cannot let any form of terrorism flourish on our door step and then let it flow into our country.

There is an international code of ethics and law and we are a responsible member of international society.

@taimurdar

The previous govt under Mush was doing only one thing - power politics. Grab the collar of CJ, kill elderly Bugti, boot lawyers and politicans, baton the media and everything. They did all but to stop the talibanization. They even dealt the Lal Masjid affair in a way to point score and NOT to erradicate the root of problems - Talibanization.

Now for this govt. I am really not positive about their intent or action. The moment things start going wrong or do not accomplish the goal, Zardari is going to put the child at the door of Army. Make no mistake b/c Army has not learned its lesson. It is going to again disrupt the democractic process and put us back to the days of totalitarian regime. I hope that Zardari and Nawaz, even though they have too many skeletons in their closet, for the future of Pakistan, root out the eveil of Talibanization.

If the writ of state is not implemented my Pakistan is doomed. Please ppl wake up.

SGuy
Imran is emphasizing common sense. Justice not military operation. Taliban might have terrorists among them but they cant all be bundled together as group of terrorists just because if fits neocon agenda.

IK does not know what he wants…
He is supporting juduciary issue on one side and he has always supported talibans on the other end. He is not clear in this issue.He always opposes any action in tribal belt even though that is required.
If he keeps the same attitude i think he can never expand his vote bank.

Imran Khan has made excellent points:

- Journalists have not been allowed so everyone’s information is based on speculation and what government wants you to believe.

- There was no such thing as “Pakistani Taliban” until 2004, which was 3 years after start of War on Terror. Pakistani & American Army has created these fighters by continuously bombing them for many years.

These are all POLITICAL issues that are being labeled as RELIGIOUS issues to carry out MASS MURDER of Pakistan Citizens.

My favorite statement from George Galloway:

Terrorism is a byproduct of Injustice and you cannot eliminate terrorism with terrorism.

The only cure is justice as per Laws and Constitution of Pakistan. Pakistan Army cannot kill its Tax Payers. All kinds of law breakers including so called Talibans, Tribals or any other group should be given proper justice as per Law otherwise there is no difference between Law Breakers on both side. Surely there are bad people killing other peoples, but there would be no difference between Taliban and Army if both are doing the same.

The law says that everyone is innocent until proven guilty by “Court”. If Pakistani Authorities have balls, they should be brave enough to capture these people who are in their own territory, bring them to Civilian Court and Pakistani Nation should hear stories on both sides.

If proven guilty, these Talibans etc should be hanged to death and no concession should be given to them.

There are different kinds of fanatics in all countries of the world, but no civilized nation kill their own people without giving them a chance for fair trial.

We simply cannot TRUST the judgments of Army who has turned into God and deciding themselves which Pakistan Citizen should Live or which Pakistani Citizen should be Killed!

@ Rehan,
I understand what necon is and what they meant. However, do you think the answer to necon is talibanization of Pakistan. OR you are just giving them the excuse to take away the physical soveignity too? One more thing here, if you have experienced or known what fanatic talibans stand for, certainly not Islam, but kind of fascist and terrorism that no saner person let alone any muslim would support. I will not allow talibans/terroristans to legitimize and use my soil to attack whoever and for whatever reason. If they are so happy then just go to anyother country and do whatever you want. But NOT ON MY SOIL. NOT IN MY COUNTRY. We DONOT SUPPORT THEM and since they are not going to get out or keep shut they need the Armored Corp gun to eleminate. These cowards in turn will send some brainwashed youth to blow up innocent Pakistanis. They are just plain cowards, NOT Muslims, NOT even humans.

IK talks always of Switzerland and Singapore, the SMALLEST countries.
Singapore he says has a population of 3 Million, it is 4.5 million
Switzerland has apopulation of 7.5 million
Lahore’s population is 10 Million
Karachi’s population is 16 Million
Pakistan’s population is 160 Million

What sort of comparisons !!!
Is IK writing a book on COMPARATIVE ECONMICS?
Isn’t he comparing a mouse with an elephant?

He cites history of 70 years ago like Roedad Khan, when total West Pakistan’s population was less than 30 Million…, when Karachi was clean, when there was LAW and ORDER, when people were honest, when thieves were afraid and were just poor and used to run away, if someone shouted “CHORE AYA CHORE AYA”. Today the CHORE has become a SHER and people go into hiding and cry ” SHER AYA SHER AYA”…

He says Peshawar was not in danger, he forgets the Mehsuds and Fazlullahs, Mangal Baghs the Lashkaris are not staying back in the tribal areas, they are occupying Swat and Mingora, burning girls schools and KILLING peace seeking people.

What DIALOGUE does he want with them?

The @democrat’s questions above are valid:

Q 2:
What is he trying to suggest?stop the operation and sit on the bum…wow what a strategy?

Q 3:
Why do not Imran ,Qazi and NS negotiate directly with Talibans? Why do not they just volunteer for this job if they are so — sincere?
Q 7:
Did he give any solution or just was beating about the bush?

And @muhammad777 says, ” It is OUR war within Pakistan”…

Yes, it’s Pakistan’s internal problem, when SWAT and MINGORA is being occupied and the people are afraid to do business there, afraid to go out on the street s …

The DIALOGUE should be NOT for 25 years like in Ireland …
Pakistan should GOVERN, not the terrorists, who become BOLDER with passing of every day of “dialogue”, taking advantage of the time to OCCUPY another AREA and make its people as HOSTAGE with terror.

Instead of supporting ACTION against the TERRORISTS (They don’t deserve to be called Taliban anymore) –> they don’t talk about Sharia, they don’t practice peaceful Islamic, they kill innocent Pak muslims, they are becoming GREEDY day by day … Mr IK is SUPPORTING them when he holds such useless News Conferences.

If IK wants to do some PRACTICAL work, he should start a DIALOGUE wit Mehsud and get rid off Swat and Mingora free from terrorists and ask them to build all the schools they have destroyed and become REAL Taliban by teaching ISlAMIC way of life, and not teach IGNORANCE and PRACTICE killings …

Let the Dialog bring commitment ” NO VIOLENCE IN PAKISTAN ”

IK should not cry aagainst POLICE and ARMY anymore. Both the institutions are under Govt’s order, not under Mush or Bush !
PAKISTAN must use them to PROTECT its CIVILIANS from TERRORISTS…

Waqar
Maybe its not about vote bank.
Dont understand your confusion about supporting justice in general and justice for taliban. Which country in the world gets its army to kill the criminals rahter than bring them to justice.

@ Rasheed
Talibans were here, right here, created and nurtured by Gen. Zia ul Haq and ISI to satisfy their foolish strategic depth. Now since they created this monster and let it groom under their nose, it would be right for them to flush them.

Court of law and evidence. How many slit throats, buring girls schools and suicide bombing of innocent Pakistanis is enought to bring these terroristans to justice.

Pak Army or the govt wont be becoming God to act against Talibans but would be just doing their damned job which they should have long ago have done.

Talibans hands are dripped with Pakistani blood. If they are so much happy to go after Kafirs, then please get out of my country and do whatever you like. However, in the whole world the most lawless country is my FATA. Where the hell you can have your own parallel govt and do whatever you like.

Salute Pak Army for terminating the talibans.

Does anyone know anything about the Frontier province’s history ? Does anybody care as to what has happened in the past 2000 years ? Does anyone wish to study subjects such as these ?

For all of those that are expressing their opinions here- please do study before ” pontificating”
If after that you have a different view- great but please study and you have no excuse since GOOGLE is available for FREE.

@Sguy,

Do you really believe the civilized practice that everyone is innocent until proven guilty? Do you even know what I am talking about???

Lets assume, tomorrow some Army intelligence officers wrongfully come into your home and shoot and kill your dad and your brothers, and announce that they suspected these guys were funding Tablian and they were active members of Tablian living in cities.

When this news will be published in Pakistani Newspapers, thousands of fools like yourself will be clapping with joy what Pakistani Brave Army has done to save Pakistan.

My question is how they have become such a power over-night?

Set aside that whether we agree with IKs or someone elses views or not, We have a powerful army equipped with latest technology & intelligence, how we have not been able to figure out this kinna threat in advance?
Its as dubious as was the killing of hundreds of innocent kids & destruction of mosque to capture Aziz brothern live or dead.
In kashmir its going on for quite a while but liberation-groups have never been a threat of such an intensity.

Wheres our intelligence? Its something else thats not been disclosed & we are not able to figure it out either.

its not that straight that taliban gonna capture Peshawar. Taliban are mere puppets, the strings are somewhere else.

US has butchered probably thousands of Afghan Taliban fighters.

But when it comes to “US Citizen Taliban”, they are required to follow the law and constitution and provide him a fair trial with access to lawyer.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,197611,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_Lindh
http://www.freejohnwalker.net/

It is not a matter what should be done with these kind of people, but Army cannot be left to become a JUDGE and EXECUTIONER at same time, similar to any civilized country.

Our Army has been breading more fanatics due to the fact that their loved ones were killed without given any justice.

Every one here talks about whats has been said by Govt or their own speculation. Try to go deeper in this issue.

Why Taliban is harmful for ISLAMIC REPUBLICH OF PAKISTAN???
Why muslims of sub-continent demand for an independent country???

There would be a debate to these questions but i wanna make it clear that army attack on those msulims so called taliban (new name for those who has bear and pray for 5 time a day) is not a solution of any problem INSTEAD it generates plenty of problem all over the country.

Whats the difference between this govt. (PPP&PMLN&ANP) and previous one???

will wirte more later……………….

imran is right on target .
the bigest fact for all those voicing against peace dialouge is that no one had heard of taliban in pakistan. before our army went in to expel forginers which was a lie to start with. The only movement before this was that of sufi Moh’d who was very easily countered by the PPP goverment at that time with some use of power (ONLY POLICE)but that was not at the behest of america so the operation was a success but wat has happened now is totally different and has fuelled the pasthun belt altogather. there is no other way than dialogue..dialogue will frustrate those in taliban too who are extremist and want this conflict to go all out against anyone and turn it into global jehad. so the sensible thing is sincere dialogue and there is every hope that the saner elemnet of taliban will respond positively ..i want to remind another thing that there is no link of AFGHAN TALIBAN WITH pAKISTAN tALIBAN ..AFGHANI TALIBAN HAVE REPEATEDLY DIS OWNED THIS MOVEMENT …..THEY R ALL LOCAL AND MOST HAVE JOINED OUT OF REVENGE AND NATIONAL PRIDE RATHER THAN ANY LONG TERM AND EXPANSION DESIGNS… dOES ANYONE BOTHERS TO THINK WHO IS HELPING THESE TALIBANS…? NO ONE! THIS IS THE MOST INDIGENOUS MOVEMENT OF ITS KIND AND ITS EXPANSION IS ONLY DUE TO THE SO CALLED PHILOSOPHY OF OVER WHELMING FORCE AGAINST YOUR OWN PEOPLE.sorry for the caps on!!

TOTALY Agree with IK. 100% right…

We have to fight and talk with the Taliban at the same time. IK was way too soft on the Taliban. Very disappointing.

Here’s where I agree with IK: The problem with Musharraf’s/US policy was that they had no respect for the number of innocent Pakistani’s killed. Much, much more attention needs to be paid to this and it doesn’t look like the new gov’t is doing that. For ex: In the aftermath of the latest attacks, you could see the native people unsure of what to do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giEwxrg3T1g - People in and close to Peshawar are leaving home because they don’t know what the army will do next. Also an unknown amount of unnamed people around the area were arrested. This is pathetic and inexcusable. Fight the Taliban but engage/respect/protect the people.

like always khan is thought provoking

Everyone seems to miss the trees for the bush. However, not everyone can be blamed for this oversight because it is so damn deliberate on the part of the government and the rest that it is hard to see through the façade. What are Taliban? Who defines?

I have been working in FATA since last year, been living in Mardan most of my life and have relatives and friends in Swat. There were some earlier posts which tried to tear apart some of the fuzziness surrounding the Taliban mystery. There is no monolith called Taliban, and the best one could see are different segments acting under the same nametag. Call it the confluence of interest among ideological Islamists-who desperately need the support of locals, criminals, who need the space to carry out their activities with impunity and a meek government with no clear idea of what is going on and how to deal with it. What is clear is the beneficiary in this situation, i.e. the US and India, and that too mostly tactically.

Now let me try to highlight the confluence of interest between the ideological Islamists and criminal elements. The breakdown of traditional authority and law and order suits both these segments. The criminals get to do their work more freely as already elaborated in a few posts earlier and as you may know about the kidnappings of Christians from Peshawar by that Shaloberi guy-the ransom kidnapper in Khyber Agency. The ideological elements thrive on the breakdown of law and order and justice system because it is in their absence that they stake claim to an alternative system. This pattern can be seen from Swat to outskirts of Mardan, Charsadda, FATA and even the Red Mosque brothers. This is not unique to the islamists either. The breakdown of law and order and justice systems is evident in every study of violent systemic takeovers and revolutions.

What is important is to know that at a certain point, establishing the writ of the law is no more possible through means that are more peaceful and that is where a military strategy comes into play. The objective of such military offensive if wise is to get the space to reestablish the law and order and justice system and is not an end in and of itself. The criminal nature of the Mush regime is evident at this point. They started with a military action in the FATA, funded and encouraged local militias covertly, one, to appease the hardcore jihadists within the establishment, and second, to keep the American interested in supporting the regime. The American on their end were much too happy to shift the center of gravity of the islamist uprising from Afghanistan to Pakistan that on average was fighting a very low cost war with fever American body-bags. As my friend in intelligence once told me a year back, the shit was about to hit the fan and it was only a matter of when and not if. Try rationalizing the operational resources and capacities of these elements and you may understand how much hand in glove the intelligence agencies were in bringing to fruitation the disaster we are facing now. Also, try to locate the ISI run jihadist outfits and you will be surprised that local commanders in the settled NWFP are all in the lead, be that Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, Lashkar-e-Tayyiba or Jaish-e-Mohammad.
As the chickens are coming home to roost, the Indians share the American glee. Let there be no doubt that Pakistan is in the most critical crisis after 1971, perhaps more dangerous. For all their self-congratulating, the American and Indian establishment has yet to realize the potential hazards of this powder keg. While it is a relief for both in their respective war theaters in Afghanistan and Kashmir, the game for sure will not end here of the crisis is settled in favor of the islamists. The situation has all the ingredients to expand and the region has all the potential of becoming a fireball. Call me cynical, but twelve highly sophisticated armies in Afghanistan and Pakistan are failing to control these elements and I see no reason how adding a thirteenth, i.e. Indian, will make a difference. Strategically, it a loss for everyone in this region, just add up new supply lines to the Islamic separatists in southwestern Chinese regions of Ughurs. The time for simplistic panaceas and parochial interests of the major players is over, for some time has already run short and for others it not long in the offing.

Well he is right ! for every action there is a reaction. People will react after the operation. Napak army has caused irreparable damage to this land by creating taliban in the first place.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/miscellaneous/story/2008/06/080630_peshawar_analysis_sen.shtml

@rasheed
can i ask you the same questio u asked Sguy with only change of names
what a talib comes and takes one of your brothers or father ( God forbid) accuses him of what ? being a spy and there is a trail in a taliban court and he is beheaded publicly ( again God forbid) what will you do then? ask for proofs for their crimes ?

Imran Khan’s Topic is Very Hot!!!

Points:

(1) Did we have any such a problem which Pakistan faces today, before year 2000? Big question arises, why now all this?

(2) If we don’t litsen our allies on western border, we are bombed. If we litsen to our allies and do what they want, then we are bombed by Talibans. What the hell we do??? We are trapped.

(3) Which part is inoccent in this fighting?

Imran Khan Sab! Please stop following Hameed Gul….and speak your own mind……Apne bare sar ko istemaal karo…..Aqal se kaam lo…..& London mein beth ker byaan baazi mat karo…

It seems to me that soon, all the (good) cultural values, girls schools, minorities etc will be viped off our map.

Why should we dialogue with people who are even not ready to stop attacking girls schools and tourist destinations???

The don’t forget blood revenge for generations to come. Aren’t they like pagons pre-islamic arabs. Are they Ummati of Prophet SAW who forgave the blood of his closest relatives???

Which govt. of the world holds dialogue with decoits and mercinaries? They must be dealt with an iron hand and with complete sincerity which doesn’t seem to exist.

Pakistan ka sirf Allah hi Hafiz hai….

Where we stand? When Soviet Union a superpower couldn’t fight with Talibans, and Soviet Union divided into so many parts?

We can’t fight any party involved in fighting near our western borders.

should ready * ” party” in second last message instead of “part”

Acting as a neutral observer, I think irrespective of the minor differences between you guys, it is evident that IK has made you guys debate this issue to its core. Right now, IK is the only person man enough to confront this issue head on.

No other politician has spoken so strongly and honestly about this issue. All other people either from PPP, PML-N, JI, ANP or MQM, when they talk about this situation they always are political. He speaks like he really cares about the pashtuns who are going through this crisis. He speaks for the women, childrenm dying there. He speaks for the hundreds that are going to die probably due to random suicide bombings.

There was NO “Year 2004 until 2004″

Coincidence? I THINK NOT!

the fact of the matter is that whosoever is given the responsibility to tackle the issue of Taliban has to think differently than people sitting on the boundary line , clapping i.e people like Imran Khan
Its easy to come up with ideal suggestions and to claim that if I was in-charge how I would have acted differently and everything would have been fixed.
JUI/MMA opposed use of force , they still do in new conferences only but when they were in power they didnt do anything to stop it, now if you tell me that federal Gov did it i will probably laugh, they were practically Mush’s partners. And if you dont agree, they are partners in current central Gov anyways, why dont they resign on this issue ?
ANP is another one, always talking about negotiations with OUR OWN people while outside the circle of responsibility, and once given the responsibility, they are different people, they still do come up with occasional impotent statements opposing use of power but have they done practically ? nothing, in heats of their hearts they are quite willing for the forces to carry on. Again they are sharing power in centre. If they are willing to quit on the issue of renaming NWFP , why dont they take the same line on this issue and resign on this issue from central Gov. The answer is simple , they kno there is no other way around it.
NS always shouting from the stage that he opposes use of force, has been reduced to an occasional statement and still sharing AZ’ s thoughts.
what i m trying to say is , that its easy to suggest dream solutios, like IK is doing but when it comes to take responsibility almost all the forces involved, did the same thing.

Taliban is not so powerful as we know. Pak Army took opertion against those who are supported by US to cause FITNA in Pak. These are not Tailban. So Pakistan realises that if it not taken yet then it would be very dangerous for prosperity of country. Taliban will never react against Pakistan because Pakistan is better shelter for him to organizse and fight in afghansitan. Pakistan needs to be show such opertion to the Americans because American are suffering bad day by day in Afghanistan. Tell me one thing who is power who are facing American and NATO in Afghanistan? Ofcouse pakistan and china both having some plans to fight against US led coalition (NATO). So Americans are wrost suffering in Aghan and Iraq. I dont think American will fight more than 2 years in future. That will be dangerou for Americans. All western powers , Americans and Austrailans are wrost suffering in Afghanistan. Inshallah their coalition will be break one day as Russia broken. Only Pakistan is survived this moment. Another worry for Americans is that Islam is spreading in USA very fast in the react of 9/11 but unfortuniality Arabs are not awaking yet from dreams.

I am not against, military operation if it can be shown that it is necessary and that it is likely to succeed. I am not sure that this has been shown either by the government or by Gul Bokhari or by other contributors on this forum. I am very happy to be persuaded otherwise. Let me put forward my questions in this regard:

- how do we explain the significant decrease in suicide bombing in Pkaistan in recent months? If the peace dialogue is not working - as proponents of military operation believe - how does one expalin this fact?

-the two news items that preceded current operation, have both turned out to be false. The news about Taliban taking over Peshawar were hugely exagerated. The news about Christians being captured has also turned out to be exegerated: they have been freed beacuse they were abducted by a group believing that these Christians were involved in alcohol trading. The question, therefore, is how do we explain the spread of such exegerated news?

-why these operatiosn were never discussed in the parliament? Why is it taht parliament is supreme when it comes to judges and impeachment of the retired general but is not eevn consulted in ‘war on terror’? Does this not indicate some ‘daal mai kala’ with regard to how the current military operation is framed and publicised?

-given that no one has taken responsibility nor anyone has been caught, how do we know who are the people abducting, burning girls and destroying property? Yes, these are criminal activities but criminal activities require police operation not blankett attacks by military force.

-ANP spokesperson claimed on Capital Talk yesterday that the peace talks in setteled area has worked. If this is true, is this not an indication that given right political will, peace process can work?

- even if we accept that military operation is required, what is the guarantee that military operation will actually achieve the objective of clearing Pakistan of the terrorists? Where in the world has it worked? I look forwrad to some reasoned argument to show why military operation is likely to succeed this time given that it has failed in the past and in other parts of the world (Afghanistan, Palestine, Kashmir, Iraq).

- finally, the issue is not whether war on terror is our war or not. It has now become our war but the question still is how should thsi war be waged and who should decide thsi modality? Should it be the US command and Pkaistan army should decide or should it be decided by Pakistan’s people through the parliament?

ibnrazi

one more question…

- We are told that Talibal escaped Afghanistan and came to Pakistan, then escaped one part of Pakistan to go to another. Let us take this to be true. Then it follows that it is posisble that after these operations, these terrorists may escape from Peshawar, Khurran Agenct etc and move into Lahore or Karachi. Then what, will we support similar attacks on Karachi or Lahore? Those who hesistate to say yes, must do some soul searching and think if theya re pro-military operations , in part, beacuse it is the ‘other’, Pakhtoon.

Salam folks,
Yeah, among all these chattel slaves that we call our elites whose tongues have developed sores and pus by licking boots, only a few sane as wel as courageous voices stand out who do give a rat’s ass about Pakistani lives and Pakistan’s interest. Rest of these effing dolts don’t know the meaning of national pride, national interest, liberty, sovereignity, or for that matter shame and honor if it came and bit them on their ass.
So far the few voices I have sen who do speak up who ARE willing to fight the good fight, none if more poignant than that of Imran Khan.

I salute this Hero. He is the only hope for Pakistan in this momment.

We don’t learn from our past history:

West Pakistani soldiers killed East Pakistani civilians, as well as their freedom fighters (mukhtibahimi) under the order of General Tikka Khan and then General Naizi. What happened we created more freedom fighters in Bangladesh (East Pakistan). and one day we lost half of the country in 1971, and General Naizi alongwith 90,000 (ninety thousand) west Pakistani soldiers accepted shameful defeat in front of whole Bangali nation and indian troops. What a disgrace!!!

What the lesson you learn from above????

another factor to be brought into the equation is the ‘money’ being generated by the production and trade of opium . 92% of global production is inside afghanistan…if crops that dont fight back cant be eradicated…how easy will it be to deal with militants. a problem exists…with many heads….and with potential to grow three new heads with every one you remove without dealing with its roots. the roots being..???

Imran Khan is a mouthpiece of Gen Hameed Gul and his analysis is incorrect and irrational as this problem of Taliban is getting pit of control for the Pakistan Govt. Lal Masjid incident where everyone on this forum and other forums blamed then Govt for delay in attack. Now when the Govt wants to wipe out these forces of evil before they re-group again. Either we let Taliban let this country ruin or we take action now. Our land should not be used by either Taliban or Americans to settle their dispute. This is an Afghan problem which is being fought partly in our country as well. Why do we allow these foreign fighters who are fighting against US to use our land?

Talibanisation of a society is a dangerous process fraught with intolerance and unacceptable for 95% population of this country. Anyone on this forum or anywhere else likes the Taliban way of life should move to either Afghanistan or in areas where Taliban are enforcing their Islam (by theway no areas of Pakistan should be used to enforce Islam of Taliban). I am 100% behind the Army action.

Pakistan Zindabad

!

sorry for ! i was just checking if my posts are still blocked even if i dont mention Imran Khans name and criticize him a bit

@admin why u have delete my post ??

Unfortunately the vid is not working I was hoping to see it.

Imran in London again. Roehampton Sports Club. He cannot stay away from London. He is still telling us our problems but offers no solution. Why does he not go and meet Talibans and negotiate with them instead of coming to London every other day. Please tell us something new. We now Switzerland & Singapore very well. No Talibans or Al-qaeeda there.
Please Mr Imran Cohen nation is getting fedup of your rehtorics aginst Bush-Musharaf-Us-Musharaf-Bush-Army-Judges- 2004-

In 1971 war none of our ally or malai came to help us, and we had terrible and shameful defeat and our world war experienced General signed defeat papers in front of “mukhtibahimi” (freedom fighters of Bangladesh) and Indian army.

Somebody said, don’t see who is saying, but see what he is saying…….if some one makes point, take it.

Learn from our own histroy. History is a biggest teacher among all.

Go to Rome (Italy) and Greece and see the ruins of the biggest nations, of their time, but now buried underneath and became only history. Millions of people around the world go to see their graves (whole of the cities were burried) . it teachs the lesson to some and for others it is a part of art..

@Claremont
IK is in London because he is filing a case with Police against Kaalia Chooran Wali Sarkar, the real terrorist

The so called “Pakistani Talibans” are our reserve army. I am quite sure sooner or later when Nato leaves Afghanistan, these Talibs will be our friends again. Pakistan wants keep them live. These operations, especially the one started three days ago, are just an eye wash. Read the latest article by Muhammad Malick on The News. He went inside the Khyber agency and reported the on hand experience.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=15673

@malek

also to attend the tehelka conf. on india-pak peace…last week

@ jojo

i think i agree with that reading…but how do you see this gamble in the context of geo-politics?

@kafka8
we agree on something mate!

our present politicians don’t talk openly on above issue, it clearily shows they are trying to save their arms, legs and most importantly their own seats, because no one can maintain seat by making big bosses angry.

Since imran Khan is not in government, he has no need to make big bosses happy, so he can talk more openly without scared of anybody compare to present politicians who seemed to be very scared and consufed when talking to above issue, it seems that their father is standing on their heads with wooden bamboo.

Now we should see what Imran is saying? Does it make sense in the light of our past history? We shouldn’t attack on personality, if we see this way than no one politician is angel all they are corrupt. but see what they are saying does it make point?
.

@kafka8

I am quite sure that Western Govts, especially the UK, have already realized that they have to take Pashtun Talibans along with them otherwise there is no solution. If they want to trade the oil/gas piplines from Central Asia to Gawadar/Karachi then ultimately they would have to pass through the Pashtun areas.

The other sconorio is that West wants to keep the Taliban alive so that this area (Pakistan and Afghanistan) remain at odds with each other and that would hinder China to use the Gawadar as energy rout for her South-West provinces.

Pakistan wants to keep Talibans alive to reduce the influence of Indians in Kabul.

Anyhow I cannot say more than that or may be I am talking nuts.

why did IK had to come to London to give a press conf on militray action in Pakistan? when NS and Zardaro met in London he was complaining?

arnt there many national crisis and issues in Pakistan that need considerations and decision making by ’senior’ national politicians ……. or is it because its summer which is more pleasant in London?

@jojo

i dont think ur talking nuts….i wish more writers can expand on this so that a better understanding of the dynamics at play could be established.

All Pakistani Politicians are one-1 corrupt in whole world. But see what they are saying!!!!! whether they are talking to pass time or making important point in their conversation.

Otherwise none of them is good for us.

jojo: yeah see that might not happen. USA is not gonna leave because I don’t think any one here in Pakistan is making any noise. Pakistan isnot keeping the Taliban alive, under Mush and this chickensh* parliament Pakistan has done the utmost to carry on USA’s war on Terror. I mean really.

Now I know in Washington’s corridors the only political allophones that keep reechoing over and over again is that Pakistan is not doing enough? To this ofcourse the rational response should be WTF?
What Pakistan has done under this coward dictator and his allies is what very few nations are capable of doing: surredered the sovereignty for 10 million bucks. oh those 10 million dollars..Never mind the monthly expenditure of the US in Iraq alone is 30 billion dollars MONTHLY, and here is Pakistan 10 millon given what 8 yrs ago? are now sherlock’s pound of flesh. Naturally, you can expect our chatells, these ugly two faced smelly mofus to cut give 10 pounds on mere insinuation that we owe.

Is there an other country in the world which has done more for His Highness Bush than this circus of mush now joined by zardari (was he a proto-emo like his his emo son)? And ofcourse Pakistan has not done enough, Pakistan will never do enough.

@Malek

It is really intresting that Zardarooo visit either London or Dubai twice in a month and IK is doing the same. saday leaders cha gai neeeeeee

@jojo
I agree with you. This is pakistani policy which take U-Turn. Talibans are Pakistan arms which it never be cut off himself

We don’t care where they meet or go to bed. As long as if, I repeat, if they are dam sincere to Pakistan, rest is unimportant.

You can smell from their talk who is sincere to Pak and who is “Napaak”, I mean not sincere to Pak.

If I start writing on the life of Pakistani politicians, I can fill many books. It is unimportant because all they are piece of rotten garbbage (goun).

?

@zahidbinmustafa

except that Zardarooo visits london and Dubai and IK visits London and India?

some of us incl me have been messing around but @jojo on July 1st, 2008 9:50 am Omer Khan have raised very valid points which warrants seriuous discusion.

what i cant understand is that how these so called ‘talibans’ have become such a force in Pakistan overnight that military action was required?

also these so called ‘talibans’ are defenders of our borders and have done that for decades without any help from army

He is the man who spoke on very first day in 2005 when forces moved in and all of us saw he was right to say that it would ultimately bring destruction. That ’s why, I listened him carefully.

Thank A$d$m$i$n for making it available.

army is playing double game they support and arm the taliban to go and fight the yanks and then the groups they don’t like they get killed by american missile strikes, they think they have these groups on a leash but thats where they are making biggest mistake.

If IK is an embassador of Talibans if he is for the
peace and justice to save Pakistan then the
persons like democrat and sleepingnation
are embassador of USA because they
are for the war.

imran khan has lost contact with reality
he will do the same ie adrama of talks and then use of force if given the power while he is sitting oputside the assembly he can give all sorts of fancy suggestions,

certainly hope no sane person would align him/herself with the loony bin called ‘taliban’…let alone Immi

To all:
He is 100% percent right, how much time this govt has given to negotiations WTF..Govt actions will unite local population and taliban which will create a hell for Army, FC etc in all tribal areas. I know from where above coments are are comming from.. Loosers does ur army has the capacity and the will to fight taliban and criminals etc for a long period in tribal areas? Answer is a big NO… then what should be their strategy to deal with this… Talk to people who are a bit reasonable and use them to allienate phyco talibs and criminals and then force can be used if needed!!
This ANP , PPP, so called liberals and US alliance is going to cost us NWFP…
To all bull$hitt analyst who posted on this thread:
You guys dont even know where your back side is and are talking about operation in tribal areas… biggest joke of this century…

Imran Khan is a man of 100% successful knowledge.I 100% appreciate him.
Knowledge is sum of all good and perfect qualities.It is based on justified true beliefs.It definition includes the variously as (i) expertise, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject, (ii) what is known in a particular field or in total; facts and information or (iii) awareness or familiarity gained by experience of a fact or situation.

Imran Khan is the first and probably will be last Pakistani who have highest Knowledge in politics.like in this talk he mention, when he argue about the Pakistani Taliban he say before 2005 or 2004 where they were.
our parents,grandfather and grandmother live in this pakistan and there was no name of Taliban.It means someone created these.These are just artificial things just for becoming foolish us and in reality we are the foolish nation of the world.We believe just on one propaganda that Taliban are occupying peshawar.shame

second thing he give the typical example of Karachi where killing rate is high than nwfp.if peshawar is not safe then how islamabad and other big cities like lahore are safe because all the nwfp people working and have business in lahor and punjab.

third he give the law lesson to us which give you the true happiness.
he also give the lesson of table talk with the these people which is the best way and solution.suppose if there is no America,no Russia,no Afghanistan,no Pakistani taliban then will we fight each other and will kill each other.
be realistic answer this question the answer definitely yes.then why we support killing at least we should support table talk.
killing is not the solution but to convey good and positive knowledge and lesson (like Sir.Imran Khan conveying).Our Prophet made revolution in the world because of his good lesson and knowledge.He used to love non-Muslims and his enemies.because of his good and positive lesson and qualities.although his relatives were non-muslims but still he gave him lesson positively.

last thing in my opinion Pakistan is not Islamic country.Its just by name.as we see most people use night clubs,dance,dring and every bad actions are there.So it is the responsibility of an individual to decide and think on his own whos the good leader and they shoud,t blame pakistani people(taliban) or just listening fucking pakistani bad people and bad governmnet.
and by the please define pervez mussaraf.
to whcih part he belongs is he politician,leader,Q party leader.
if he is not politician or not belong to some party then he is preseident.strange for foolish people like us .
please define him and give the location.

Indians will give money to these taliban and criminals when our army is bogged down.. how will they stop money and weapons flowing in… they have a hostile regime in Afghanistan…..
To All:
We have to accept the fact we have rag tag army who’s only aim is to secure plots and enjoy begharati. WTF
They cant fight for a long period of time… and we dont have the recources to support a long and bloody battle in tribal areas…

@asif65
very relative and effective point, you raised

Dear fellas, Taliban? I gues those Iraqi terrorists are also Taliban. They MUST be from these Mehsuds, Afridis, Waziris and co.
And ofcourse it is Iran which helping these Iraqi Taliban. Funnily enough, though, although Iran is a fundamentalist theocracy, and is accused of not only helping the Iraqi Taliban and Afghan Taliban, they have a history of hostility with the US. Alright, whatever the US says is gospel, so ok agreed Iran is a terrorist nation which wants to concur neighboring countries to forge the 3rd Persian empire and at the very least do a turn about on the Achaeminian policy and commit genocide of the Jewish ppl with nuclear weapons. Never mind the fact that their 3rd rate military, doesn’t have any nuclear weapons, but hey the Iranian Ringo Star looks evil. And while CUFI (christians united for israel) contemplate how this menace is going to destroy the region and commit genocide, one thing is amazing. Not a single one of Iranian soldier has died neither have their people experienced the ever so” oft-curved” nature of predator drones. Which ofcourse in the case of Pakistan (ally since its inception) is 1 or 2 times followed by high decibel scandalous noises. With allies like these…

Then ofcourse we have dullards on the pakistani sides. Parrots. I tell ya, the paki nerd age is nigh. None less deluded than our politicos with their exhilarating communal cluster sheeple experience or the likes of Ahmed Rashid.

*conquer

All leaders except IK, Why you folks hiding when everybody including your fans too are saying that Pakistan s under fire?
Say what you rhink should be done. We wanna listen from you too or you saving your a$$ by keeping mum on this sensitive issue.
IK is right or wrong, but hes not running away from truth like you guys, who always focus on political interest first.

This is where the revolution for the spirit of Pakistan has started from the fringe of civilization right there in the tribal belt. BEcause what we really have in Pakistan is utter decay. Cruel, unenlightened elite, corrupt tot he core. No respect for the people, for the founders of this nation (God how I wish that Jinnah was alive today or Imran was the head of state), no respect for the constitution, no knowledge, no schema, no pride. It takes a lion heart to deal with a difficult situation and to take the bull by the horns.
Once we used to hear from Pakistan’s detractors that pakistan has CREATED taliban lol Now we hear these parrots mimicking their masters cadence.

Remember how the Taliban came. These illiterate simpletons came from the villages. They came in decay left in the wake of these oppertunist Islamists or communists (a strange matrimony) who now again occupy Kabul. No wonder Taliban leadership was the world’s most handicapped and crippled. Because they came from the footsies.

As potentially incomnpetent as we Pakistanis are, we do have among us brilliant minds and a spirit left by the great founder of this nation which does make us prudent from any of our neighbours. Just check the human right record. Of course the last 8 years don’t count. The lost decade. Chattel made Abaddon. SO come out now: com out and speak against military action on Pakistani bros and sisters. Make a million man march. These ugly ugly turd face bas***** like zardari, PPP do NOT have the BALLS. At the very least seeing this en masse public agitation WILL send a message to the US.

DO NOT MESS WITH THE PAKISTANI VOX POPULI

FOr remember guys: Beslan is attributed the Chechens as well. WHat did the Chechens do? Were they about to impose Shria on RUssia?

Was it an abhorrent act?hell it should make a humane belly go puke. BUt while we remember the 14 younglings who died in the cross fire, take a second and remember the hundreds of thousand of chechens of suffered, died, got raped and uprooted just because they wanted to let BE.

SHAME on US PAKISTANIS for waiting so long. The time to show solidarity is NOW. Come out on the streets, flood the air waves with placards for liberty. Show that Pakistani blood is not cheap. And if you do have the guts buy your GUNS and join them. The war has been thrust upon our brethren.

Show your solidairty, make Jinnah proud, make yourselves worth something. DO someting right for once. And you’ll see the fruits of it. Automatically with the moral upper hand those who wish to hurt innocent ppl out of whatever reason would themselves be dealt with, just like in Iraq.

…And this is the least we can do for our Kashmiri brethren as well, who have been most brutally subjugated by an equally abhorrent socialist abomination. Send a good message.

A Khan ( like Imran Khan) came to Qissa khani bazar from Kabul and told the audience that he had just won a long jump competition in Kabul after he jumped 100 yards.
Many people were impressed ( like some members of this forum) but there were some less claver people ( maybe like me) who handed khan sahb a Gaz and led him to an open field so that he could jump and the distance be measured at the same time. ‘ da gaz ow da maidan’ as they say.
If we give a similar Gaz to Imran khan saheb he will never jump, not 100 yards anyways.

ghoshi

You donn’t agree with IK, thats OK. But whats the opinion of your leaders on this issue, where are they? Are they waiting for a wind to blow so they can follow the wind??????????????????????