Sunday Times recently reported on claims made by Carey Schofield about the murder of Major-General Alavi. Ms. Schofield, author of a forthcoming book “Inside the Pakistan Army” , appears to suggest Alavi was assassinated by elements in the Pakistan Army for threatening to expose some Pakistani generals’ dealings with Taliban and undermining the war on terror. And she allegedly has a copy of the letter written by Alavi to “prove” her allegations.
The story reads like the plot of a third-rate Bollywood flick and Sunday Times has done well if it’s aim was to lower itself to the level of the Indian press. The Pakistan Army has rightfully called it “slander” and “part of a propaganda campaign to malign Pakistan and its institutions.”
But some facts about Alavi mentioned in the article raises some very important questions. It states Alavi’s sister is married to Hindu supremacist V. S. Naipal (who in his books argues Islam is “the most uncompromising kind of imperialism” and the failure” of muslim states like Pakistan, Malaysia, Iran, and Indonesia was not a fault of its citizens but Islam itself). Alavi also held dual British and Pakistani nationality. He was “born British in Kenya” and was proud of his brother having fought on the side of British imperialists against the Mau Mau. His affection for Britain is described as “touching” and his patriotism (for Britain) called “striking” (any wonder then that he was “keen to revive the SSG’s relationship with British special forces?”)
The question is: How can a person such loyalties rise to the rank of Major-General in the Pakistan Army?
The Army also needs to disclose exactly what were the charges against Maj-Gen Alavi. If he was indeed guilty of “conduct unbecoming”, what exactly was that conduct. If the charge against him was false, then why are those generals plotting against him still in the army?
Load of crap, part of the campaign to single out pakistan.
when i read this story in the newspaper, it sounded very doubtful to me that why a Pakistani General will tell the secret of his life to a british national. But after watching his picture, on this forum, i have no doubt left that he was a foriegn stooge appointed at a sensitive post.
For reference:
Mau Mau Uprising
Timeline: Mau Mau Rebellion
The Mau Mau were a militant African nationalist movement active in Kenya during the 1950s whose main aim was to remove British rule and European settlers from the country.
This so called very Westrenized/Liberaled Faisal Alavi is === Khalil ZalmayZad whose sister was married with American half Christian & half Jew.
There is no shortage of these sort of (MALOON/LANATI/already declared imprecated like SALMAN RUSHDI) who have been enjoying TOP LEVEL Pakistan Government Seats but no one asked to them at high time what are/were their melafide intentions to Melign Islam & Pakistan as well.
paradigm_shift Says:when i read this story in the newspaper, it sounded very doubtful to me that why a Pakistani General…………SIR, STRONGLY BELEIVE ON THIS FOLLOWING HADITH:
DOULAT AUR TAQAT MAGNAY SAY PEHLAY ZARF KI DUA KARO TAKAY USAY SAMBHAL SAKO.
BEFORE PRAY FOR WEALTH & MIGHT FIRST OF ALL ASK TO ALMIGHTY ALLAH JUST TO GRANT —STRONG NERVES— AS YOU & I MAY ABLE TO HOLD & CONTROL THE SAME.
hence, how could Alvi may able to live with peace & tranquility if he was deadly against Islam & spoke against his own Institution who are liable to provide safeguard this Religion and country as well.
Surprising things is how traitors like Alvi reached almost highest position in Army, as Major General?
But answer might be very simple, if Mushi can reach to apex position then Alvi can also. Anyhow, it is bad luck for us and country that liberal fascist are doing jobs for their “gods” and heartdly working to disintegrate Pakistn and Pakistani nation.
Laanat Ullah ala “liberal facist”
How many more of such looneys are there in the Pak army and in the higher-ups of Bureaucracy. These stooges need to identified and removed, as they impose the agenda of their masters!!!.The core is corrupt,,, plz identify others who have foreign links i.e dual citizens holding a influential post.
a person with dual nationality,
can never be a loyal fighter for any country.
he is supposed to be a traitor.
and after confirmation, ISI disposed of him,
well done , he derserved that
aap sabb ke behann
ajnabi larki
now we can have a clear idea why and how SSG with musharaff (harami) killed many innocents in lal masjid.
i m sure there are many haramis in SSG even now like this one and musharaff.
aap sabb ke behan
ajnabi larki
This Faisal Alvi’s siter married to VS Naipal ( A Hindu) who is known for his anti islamic anti pakistani views. This VS naipal lives in west indies and if you read his writing you will be shocked to see how much hatred he has in his heart for muslims and islam. that shows what kind of person Alvi was to have relations with the likes of Naipal
He is as ugly as Najam Sethi
@admin
You still think Army need to clarify why this traitor was sacked.
As an Army General he is not supposed to share his Army affairs with anyone–His letter to British national is enough to drum him out.
@AA Mansoori
I also heard that sister of Zalmay Khalil Zad is married to Afrasiyab Khattak, any one got some details about that, plz do share.
There are interesting facts regarding Faisal Alvi and Salman Taseer:
Faisal Alvi’s sister married with a hindu, Naipal and Faisal himself has dual nationality , Paksitan and Britian. He did agreement with british special forces to involved in SSG matters and ultimately penetrate deeply in one of most professional core of Pakistan Army.
NOW LOOK ON THE CASE OF SALMAN TASEER:
He married with a SIKH women and from this sikhni, Salman Taseer has son AATISH TASEER who is british national and working with british media. Intrestingly, Salman Taseer never denied this marriage and his son. Second, Salman Taseer is reknown thay he is station incharge of MI6(Britian spy agency) in Pakistan. Hameed Gul spoke this fact openly and Salman Taseer did not deny it.
ABOVE ALL, BOTH FAISAL ALVI AND SALMAN TASEER GREW THEIR BUSINESS IN MUSHI’S REGIME. donon siyah o sufaid ke malik thae…
We all only notice the presence of CIA and FBI in Pakistan, but imagine how much MI6 has peneterated in Pakistan. All its representative in Pakistan are enjoying the same as in Mushi regime.
please its a request promote these shits as much as any one can do while standing at any plate form it will be a SADQA GARIA ,we will get rid of them INSHALLAH all of them to protect our kids and country from such wolves
vee aawre oll going too dye!
Some sense of perspective please guys. Like some of the earlier comments made I am also doubtful about authenticity of this report in Sunday Times. Why would a general confide to a Sunday Times journalist when he could have gone public with his allegations using Pakistani media that would have given him wider audience.
If it is indeed true then the internal security apparatus of the army needs to thoroughly reviewed as to how a person of such dubious beliefs rose to such a high position. If he was so proud to be born British then he should have served in British armed forces rather then fleece Pakistani tax payers. I have never understood the logic of these people, if it was not for Pakistan they would have been nobodies but instead of thanking their good fortune they malign the very country that provided them with the opportunity to rise to the top. Naipal connection if true is very very disturbing indeed.
Quaid-e-Azam’s grandson is a huge industrialist in India. His daughter left him and had the worst and most dysfunctional of relationships with him. All of the leadership that ‘made’ Pakistan were the elites that all you people whine about (nawabzadaz, secularist jinnah, Pir, Khan, Waderos, Bhuttos who were some hindu raja’s prime ministers blah blah blah)
Pakistan is a chooN-chooN ka murabba and so many things which are/were covered up for one reason or another. Why do you think they numb your brains with 10 years of “moot-Ala Pakistan” ??? So you stop thinking about these inconsistencies.
60 years of playing whores to world powers, fighting their wars, ripping the flesh off the bones of our motherland in the name of Islam. Destroying Pakistan in the name of Islam, “because it was made in the name of Islam”.
Usurpation of democratic rule from civilian masters to a clique of foreign boot lickers.
traitors amongst us?
Cultural, democratic and economic exploitation and ill-treatment of bengali’s,
traitors amongst us?
creation of shams & badr and rape of countless Bengalis by PAK Army
traitors amongst us?
Deliberate creation of madrassah system to fight the soviets starting in Ayub’s era (with the arab petrodollars)
traitors amongst us?
Dismemberment of Pakistan at the hands of those who are still at it.
traitors amongst us?
Hanging and near hangings of elected prime ministers.
traitors amongst us?
A militant Islamic takeover of our higher education institutions and their subsequent total paralysis.
traitors amongst us?
Being America’s condoms in fighting “their Jihads”
traitors amongst us?
Systemetic destruction and subversion of Educational institutions by our masters (the West)
traitors amongst us?
61 years of “Pay no attention to the wizard behind the curtain kids. And STFU!”
traitors amongst us?
It is too late to worry about traitors amongs us. The problem is the idiots amongst us. Fix the Idiot:Traitor ratio, and no “traitor” can touch your nation.
“WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND THEY IS US!”
Had Sunday Times made this report public when he was alive–He should have faced Court Martial.
Alavi was born in Kenya as British national. He belonged to the Awan tribe of Pakistan known for their martial tradition. In 1966 he came to Pakistan to study at Abottabad Public School where he studied from 1966 – 1971. Out of his love and zeal for the military he renounced his British nationality. He got his Pakistani citizenship when he wrote to then President of Pakistan Zulfikar Ali Bhutto to be granted citizenship in order to be able to join the Pakistan Army. [5] He thus got a dual nationality of Pakistan and Britain.
The Sunday Times (UK) reported that there was a plot by Major General Alavi’s enemies using an affair with a divorced Pakistani woman to discredit him. While having a conversation with his colleagues he was challenged on the issue. Alavi made a remark considered disrespectful to General Pervez Musharraf, then the president. Some of his enemies played the recording of this conversation to General Musharraf and Alavi was sacked.[6]
Bro. Jamhooriat I read in a local newspaper which is not recognized therefore, may not be quoted mean to say that newspaper is not registered under ABC Certified:
Very well pointed out by tharapolitics such as SALMAN TASEER & NAJAM SETHI.
I may add Retd. Gen(s). Talat Masood (doesn’t beleive American & Israeil’s Conspirecies , Qazi Ashraf (40 Paray Fame) 2/3 Ptv talk show anchors as names not known.
Almost every 2nd PPP high profile Miniterial portfolio holder who even sits at Toilet/COMODE in American or either in British Style. (alongwith many other who’ve enjoying in Armed Forces Headquarter & at different Secretariates/Various Govt. Offices).
THEY ARE ALL FALLEN IN THIS PARTICULAR CATAGORY REALLY TOO MUCH CLASSIFIED PEOPLE!
Link to original article by Carey Schofield
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5337881.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=797084
I am back after long vacation… by the way I just posted something on my blog which relates to pkpolitics and this article.
…..
I have been away from computer for quite sometime, however reading the comments on Mumbai mayhem I realize that pkpolitics have become a tool in the hands of ISI agents and it feels to me that very few “humans” are left here even those are finding it hard to survive
BTW I may not be contributing frequently as I am still on vacations till after Xmas…
Irrespective of the matter of this story I want to make a point here.
Any one disagreeing wiht our views about Islam and Pakistan becomes a hater and our enemy….
@tk
re: traitors among us.
poetic !
Many have already pointed towards the fact that Alavi had double nationality and thus a double oath to take care of.
From the article (link provided by @Jazoo): “Alavi believed he had been forced out because he was openly critical of deals that senior generals had done with the Taliban. He disparaged them for their failure to fight the war on terror wholeheartedly and for allowing Taliban forces based in Pakistan to operate with impunity against British and other Nato troops across the border in Afghanistan.”
What’s new about it…maybe the timing of the relation to Taliban? The Yankees themselves had contacts at the highest level (including the then President Reagan), when the same men were called Mujahideen, and now one is even not allowed to talk to them.
Double nationality, double oath and double standards
@Ghost Of TK
“It is too late to worry about traitors amongs us. The problem is the idiots amongst us. Fix the Idiot:Traitor ratio, and no “traitor” can touch your nation.”
You can’t reform the idiots and traitors. What we really lack is an adequate supply of the third group, those who are neither traitors nor idiots. To create that group, we need to have an alternative vision instead of spending most of our time reacting to traitors and idiots.
pejas gem of wisdom are like a chain to chain us human to keep us human–The moment this chain is broken we part time human turned into “inhuman”
Love of ISI is curse of peja absence.
Looks like Peja spends all his waking hours thinking about the ISI. Get a life dude
Poor guy – was more worried about HI then anything else. BTW he was CEO/ED of REDTone Pakistan, whereas REDtone International Bhd announced on 11/11/2008 that they want to exit Pakistan because of the unfavorable business conditions – just a week before Alvi’s death.
“traitor among traitors”
I know army criteria of security check before inducting an officer. This security check is again carried before promotion, posting on a sensitive post or even after a lapse of a specific time period.
If this moron with dual personality and close relative of american christians and jews can make it to such a high level in Army then i am sure Pakistan army would be full of such soul selling stooges. Musharraf and this moron are just two examples or in other words, surface of the iceberg.
FYI Maj Gen(R) Faisal Alavi WAS NOT A DUAL NATIONAL! HE GAVE UP HIS BRITISH NATIONALITY TO JOIN PAKISTAN ARMY. HE LOVED HIS COUNTRY ! HE WAS PROUD TO BE A PAKISTANI AND A PATRIOTIC SOLDIER!PLEASE GET UR FACTS RIGHT BEFORE COMMENTING ON SOMEONE!
@jamhooriat
I read in some newspaper that ANP wanted to promote Afrasiyab and replace Awais Ghani as Governer but he couldn’t get the clearance. So the reason can be the one you are telling.
AND AS FAR AS HIS BROTHER IN LAW BEING A HINDU! HE BROKE ALL CONTACT WITH HIS SISTER WHEN HE GOT TO KNOW THAT SHE HAS MARRIED A HINDU!
US and British plot their men in the Army when a low rank officer like a Captain goes to Fort Leavenworth in Kansas or even a Cadet goes to Sandhurst in Britian. They are closely watched till they are promoted to heighest ranks. Considered as the ones who know American and British culture, and would help their masters when they are needed.
Gen Zia, Karamat, Mushraf, and Kiyani all of them had a taste of these acadamies in their younger years.
@aza
Where did you find ur info
The likes of Kernal Sher Khan, Shabir Sharif, Rashis Minhas and many more are the real heros who laid their lives for the country.
Naipaul was married to Patricia Hale, an Englishwoman, for 41 years until her death due to Cancer in 1996. In an authorised biography by Patrick French, Naipaul admits of ill-treating his devotional wife and cheating her constantly, to the point that he contemplates that his treatment towards her may have caused her death[5]. Apart from regularly visiting prostitutes in London, Naipaul often abandoned his wife to go travelling with Mrs Gooding, a married Anglo-Argentine with whom he fell in love in 1972, and would often tell his wife how he was missing his mistress but then say that he needed Lady Patricia to help him with his books.[6] After Pat’s death, Naipaul abruptly ended his affair with Ms. Gooding to marry Nadira Naipaul, a divorced Pakistani journalist.
Nadira was born Nadira Khannum Alvi and married in Pakistan. She worked as a journalist for the Pakistani newspaper, The Nation, for ten years before meeting Naipaul. They married in 1996, two months after the death of Naipaul’s first wife, Patricia Hale. Nadira had been divorced twice before her marriage to Naipaul. She has two children from a previous marriage, Maliha and Nadir. [7]
The traitors among us are the ISI and army generals who make deals with taliban so they can kill more pakhtuns. Everyone knows Alavi was killed by the army.
Shame on this site for propagating ISI’s lies.
Are we sick? are we human?
what’s wrong with us, i don’t know and don’t want to know about Gen Alvi but question stands he was killed?
we are trying to justify killing?
no matter if it is Gen or common man in streets.
even bigger question is if most of people on this forum believe that that Gen was traitor then we need to bring a fundamental change to our army?
i personally think he was killed by either a terrorist group or may be personal reasons.
jihadies in our military and their sponsors in society have been committing suicide and bringing our country to an end.
You cannot have dual nationality to serve in the PA and Alavi had given that up to join the army because he wanted to serve the country. It is really shameful that ISI through his site is maligning a man that is dead.
Pakistani generals and ISI are playing double game with the world to collect money from everyone while both fighting and supporting the taliban jihadis. We can double cross India and even the US and probably get away with it, but one day we will double cross the wrong country and pay dearly for it.
If you ever back stab China, that will be the end of Pakistan. Unlike other countries, China doesn’t take BS from anyone.
because i am the proud daughter of Maj General(R)Faisal Alavi ! i have my facts right ! do u ? A retired senior officer is killed in such a brutal way and the only thing u ppl can come up with is how he looked and how he had links with Britain ? yes he was born in Kenya because his parents were settled there but he came to Pakistan when he was 12 yrs old and he loved it ! and his passion for his country grew and he joined the forces to serve his country. how convenient is it to call a person traitorwithout knowing anything. he gave 35 yrs of his life to the forces ! and this is wat we can up with.. a thankless nation !
I think all of us regret that traitor was killed.
He should be kept alive to face the public hanging for treason.
What is the definition of traitor? ‘A person who collaborate with enemy to harm his own people’.
Blowing a wistle against wrong-doing of fellow army generals doesn’t fall into the catogary of traitor. It is rather an honourable gesture by telling the truth. Pakistan will get hurt by short sighted people (plenty in the country) rather than outside forces.
I am also proud son of a retd. PAF Officer.
My father would never discuss what happened in his office.
Writing a top secret confidential letter to British Journalist is high treason.
If we will see this in law…every army man sign a secrecy act and violation of that act could lead to as big punishment as death… So it clearly shows that Major General Faisal Alvi did break that law by giving secrets to British person…and he might have given more than that whilee serving Pakistan army But still i believe he should have bring to the court of LAw and should have been punished. This also lead us to the conclusion that our judiciary is not independence when we will get independence judiciary we will get every thing sorted out.
I would like to add one more conspiracy which took place during the Lal masjid operation when a COL i dont remember his name was shot in his back by another army officer bcoz he does not want to do operation inside Lal Masjid. So i think there are traitors in our army and we should sort them out…..
@ jazoo .. as usual ppl like u make our nation thankless. did u even read wat i just wrote ?? well Mr. i just wanted ppl to know the right facts! and as far as u or anyone else is concerned u have no right to comment on a person u didnt know. the rest u r open to all discussion. i know my father and so does the army that wat kind of a soldier he was. i dunt need to justify anything else.
jo bhi jis family say belong karta hay,woh samajhta hay,sirf mein theek muslim hon,baki jis ka tareeka mujh say different hay,woh simply Kaf*r hay,kitna aasan hay,yeh sab kehna.
ham khud ko bahut proud feel kartay hain,keh ham sab say ziada perfect muslim hain,ham kabhi bhi apni marzi kay sect kay sath janam nahi laitay.yeh sab itefaqiya hay.
bahut kam log haqeeqat ko jantay hain,sirf ilzam lagana hamara kam hay.poora pakistan aik dosray kay khilaf hay.jis ko dil chahay kaf*r keh do,jis ko dil chahay ghaddar traitor.apna kia jata hay.akhbar ka headline parho,aur apna aik nazriya bana lo.
sab yahan aflatoon ban kar remarks daitay hain,koi haqeeqat ko na dekhta hay,aur na dekhna chahta hay.
agar Alvi traitor tha,then mera khayal hay,keh woh ham sab traitors kay darmian aik traitor tha.bahut say aflatoons ko kafi mirchi aur Aag lagay ge,lekin yehi sach hay.zara apnay graiban mein jhaankain,ghour farmain,keh ham zara si tanqeed kiun bardasht nahi kartay.ISPR ka press relaese jari hota hay,ham alvi ko janay bina,emman lay atay hain,keh woh traitor tha,yeh kiun nahi sochtay keh uss traitor ko marwanay walay kia raaz hide kar rahay thay?Jamshed gulzar ko poison karnay mein kiss jounalist ka hath tha,jiss par jamshed gulzar ko blind faith tha?aur jo behind the curtain musharaf ka yaar tha.
yeh ham nahi chahatay.
Gen: hameed gul american ka yaar tha,lekin agar woh aaj americans kay khilaf hay,uss ki wajah aik ratti barabar kuch aur nahi hay,sirf aur sirf yeh thi,keh uss ki promotion as per promise nahi hoe thi.
i know,keh yeh sab likh kar mujhay bahut kuch sunai day ga,lekin khuda kay liay,zara apna soch ka tareeka badlain.har kahani kay peechay aik kahani chuppi hay,aur jahan ham kisi kahani ka END samajhtay hain,wahan say aik aur kahani ka AGHAZ bhi hota hay.
If rules were being bent in Pakistan Army then he should have informed about it to his superiors and prime minister, not to a british journalist. In my opinion Major General Alvi is a traitor.
dude it hasnt even been proved that he gave it to a british journalist !
dunt follow the media as if watever it says is the truth and use ur brains !
@aza:
I condemn the assisination of your father but if he has done treason he should be punished no matter he served Pakistan army for 35 years or not. Their should be equal law for all and everybody should bring to court of law instead of killing like this and this is why we should fully support judiciary independence movement.
The other thing i have read about this report is that Alvi was against Musharraf and he was against the agreement with tribal people, which shows how much hatred he had about his own people and he even does not want agreements with our own people instead he wants to kill them to fulfil foreign agenda… As in recent resolution of National Assembly all political parties agreed on agreements with tribal man and stopping the Army action in these areas…
@ Ajnabi larki
If I had a sister she would not have used a word like Harami so I refuse to take you as my sister. We can be anything but brother/sister. Behan aur bahi apne apne
@aza
May be you can shed the light then why Mr Faisal Alavi were sacked?
Unless we have an independent judicial inquiry, it is stupid to label anyone a traitor. Even if someone is a traitor, you have to bring him to the court if you have balls (something that Pakistani Army lacks) and charge that person for treason with evidence.
There are so many fishy things going in Pakistani Army and they have become uncontrollable monster and assassinating anyone they want to:
- Benazir dies and the mafia wash away all the evidence in 2 hours?
- General Gulzar Kiyani mysteriously dies with stomach pain. (revenge of Musharraf after exposed corruption?)
- Surgeon General of Pakistan Army, Lieutenant General Mushtaq Ahmad Baig killed in Pindi. Where was usual army escort?
- Supreme Court Registrar Hammad assassinated by Musharraf in a childish way.
- Air Chief Marshal Mushaf Ali Mir killed in 2003
- Army Chief General Asif Nawaz Khan mysteriously dies in 1993
We need another Hamood-ur-Rehman to conduct independent and thorough judicial inquiry, which army can never allow. Even they banned the previous Hamood-ur-Rehman commission report for decades to hide their crimes.
@aza
there are no ppl like anyone.
We are not a thankless nation–we are the most obedient nation we fight war of other people & call it our war.
Its nice to see that the focus on this forum has at least shifted from ‘them’ to ‘us’. I believe that is progress!
@ ajnabi larki!
sister i second your opinion. There were times when i used to feel very proud of our SSG, those were the times of T.M Shah.
But after what they did in Lal Masjid, i said to myself is that’s what they were trained for? Are they left with any moral courage to fight a genuine war now? As they would have to carry that guilt and curse with them for the rest of their lives and people like Musharraf and Alvi are responsible for it.
I salute that Col who refused to carry out operation in lal masjid and was shot dead by the army itself. But i regret why there were not more officers like him.
@jazoo: usurping civilian control is high treason. This guy is just a RAT like so many in our military who is concerned about him losing his job. Read his bloody letter. His concern is office politics.
Staying quiet like a little bitch when the army takes over is also high treason. I sure hope you don’t personally know anyone like that.
All the army jurnails/yerkails and the triple-shit-brigade are fvcking traitors who jump the walls of prime-ministers (the elected representative of THE FVCKIN PEOPLE) house like thieving rats, commit high treason.
So do all the sajeelay-jawans of the army who stay quiet and drool and froth at the mouth at the thought of breaking the chain of command one more time.
and to all you military worshipping nitwits who don’t understand the concept of chain of command (ironic innit?) … let me re-iterate …
IT.
STARTS.
AT.
THE.
PRIME.
FUCKING.
MINISTER.
ANY QUESTIONS ?????
Justice? Independent commission?
strange wishes.
simply innocent people,ya baghlool people we are.?
we are expecting a free trial for someone in pakistan.?
Our chief justice need justice,but we are just watching biased reporting,breaking news,false information machinery.
nothing will change.every gen and politician have their own pet journalists.
they just change the headline as per their requirements.
@peja: back to the fray eh?
agree with you on the ISI stooges commenting. These morons are so easy to pick out and not even worth responding to. Makes you wish they spent their fvcking time countering the indians and our real enemies than pissing around monitoring chat rooms.
IT is sad that most popular pakistani blogs have been taken over by 3 kinds of fascist entities and their media wings:
1. MQM
2. ISI
3. BEARDO BRIGADE.
All three are partners in crim in real life.
One’s got to stay in the battle nevertheless. It’s not over yet.
because in every profession there are jealousies..he was an outstanding officer and he got more importance than others because of his calibre and thats wat others didnt like. he was a target to a conspiracy.. nonetheless the main point is that my father loved pakistan and the army and thats a fact and i dunt need to prove that because everyone who knew him can vouch for that!
@aza
My sympathies for your loss. But you are hardly an impartial observer.
True that it hasn’t yet been proven that he gave that journalist that letter. But there are enough red flags.
At least this: If he was sincere to the country and the army, he would have brought his allegations out in the open. Instead, his focus was on bargaining for a medal and a job as a price for keeping his mouth shut. The army decided the price was too high and had him eliminated. If he was so brave as to know he was going to die, what was the use of the medal and a good job (in the civil world). If he had accepted that he was going to die, he should have had the courage to let the public know what was wrong with the army.
I am sorry again for your loss but it goes without saying, no honor among thieves. The mafia cut one of its own loose and had him whacked.
Gen Alavi had betrayed the code of omerta. He tried to rat on “friends of ours”
Gen Alavi sleeps with the fishes.
Fuhggedaboudit.
@rasheed: cogent analysis. It is easy to throw the word ‘traitor’ around and we have cheapened such serious words by throwing them around willy nilly.
Does anybody can share non-censored version of the letter uploaded here????
Because we want to know more realities and we need truth so it would be great if somebody or @AZA herself upload full letter.
thanks
@TK
i fully agree with u and was just going to comment the same but u did in a better way , as usual.
Bravo!!!
we r being hypersensitive to point out this type of ‘traitors’ but what about MoFu traitors like Mush, Kiyai (Nov 3rd supporter), many Ch0D commanders, Zias, Ayubs, Yahyas and many othr B@stards. Those are the real TRAITORS.
I could a similarity of this behavior with another common SYMBOL of this HYPO nation.
Telling lies, being dishonest, being supporter of injustice, bribery and u name any thing….we HYPOS will not even consider these things as BAD and when it comes to p0rn CSd or anything related to $e* or women etc………our Emaan will wake up suddenly, We surely need to cure this disease first before talking about fantasy stories of traitors.
@ aza
Are you real daughter of Maj. Gen Alvi? If he did not share this letter with british journalist then why do you think he was killed and where did the british journalist get the info from?
I leave everything to God now because i dunt need to justify my dad. Lets see wat kind of sacrifices you all can give for ur country.
@aza! because i am the proud daughter of Maj General(R)Faisal Alavi !
The way General Alvai was killed, was very wrong and no one would have ever wanted that.
But can you please throw some light on the achievements of your late father which makes you a proud daughter?
I know you are grieved at the moment but can you share some high points of his career to get the record straight?
@aza
I would suggest tht u better give ur version of story covering all questions raised (specifically how and why he was sacked, whats the truth about his tape story when mush fired him, how he had been close buddy of musharaf, the real TRAITOR, to raise to that higher level, was having British passport or not etc)and then let the impartial observers decide.
@Ghost Of TK
You are 100% supporting the US and indian policies who are also against our ISI and thats why they perpetrated Mumbai incident to blame on LeT and then on ISI becoz ISI is our frontline and our Senses and we are blind and deaf if we will loose ISI… I am not someone from ISI, apart from ISI behaviour on missing person i believe ISI is doing good because thats the only reason why indians and Americans are afraid of Pakistan . But i condemn also ISI’s involvement in missing people case. I think they were forced to it by CIA as Amna janjua said in his recent interview.
But i want to know you ??? are u indian then i dont care otherwise if u are some of my Pakistani brother i will say with love please dont say anything which will go against Pakistan….. and dont support Indian case and dont do things which will make u suspicious…. If you are patriotic and if you love Pakistan you would have never said these things….
What do u mean by BEARDO BRIGADE?????
If you are talking about persons having beards then let me tell u it is Sunnat from Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and if you will say such words then you directly targeting this sunnat so be carefull while using ur words.
PEACE
Long Live PAkistan
This does not answer the question, why was he killed if he had not shared that letter with a british journalist? Please also accept our sincere condolences for your father’s loss.
BTW, he has face similarity to Waseem Akhtar of MQM (12 May fame).
Chill out guys, it is an achievement in itself to be a commander of SSG and making it to top position in Pakistan Army. It does not matter who he looked like, he is one of us! We should show some restrain even when we are criticising some one.
Must second @Rasheed’s comments. Any citizen of Pakistan must be tried in court of law and not in street “justice”.
The case is too fishy…………..Nobody seems clean
Where is the government in all this? Do they have an opinion or are they busy with the usual stuff.
I’m not a blind pro-army supporter and I am most certainly not a Musharraf supporter. But I think it is in very bad taste to insult a man who was murdered most brutally regardless of what he is accused of now. Additionally, his daughter is reading the board and all these incredibly hurtful and painful things said about her father. Can we at least tone down our conspiracy theories at least while she is here?
I think we should give Gen Alavi the benefit of the doubt. The case against him is hardly proven. And in fact, if what he wrote was true, then I am with him. Why are our retired jarnails aka mercenaries for hire doing deals with the Taliban? If Americans and the Brits are not our friends, then the Taliban are most certainly not our friends either.
Aza, I have my problems with the Pak army’s role over the years as an institution but my condolences are with you. We all love our country as did your father I am sure. Please don’t take what you read here to heart. Everyone on this board means well. It’s just that we’ve gotten very paranoid over the years. May God bless your father and our beloved country.
@Shirkuh
and killers of Gen Alvi should also be tried in the court of justice (not DOGar court)
@Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar
“Why are our retired jarnails aka mercenaries for hire doing deals with the Taliban? If Americans and the Brits are not our friends, then the Taliban are most certainly not our friends either. ”
I am not a supporter of the Taliban, but I would not compare them to the Western Gang. At least they provided a safe border, when they were in power. Other problems followed, but they didn´t pose the same threat as we are witnessing from the Yankees.
@fahad_guraya
You are right that on security matters (external threats) ISI is our ears and eyes, but what we don’t want is assassinations of PAK citizens. Every PAK citizen has the right for a trial. And we don’t want ISI to manipulate in the PAK politics/elections!!!!!!!!!!!
@aza: I’m sorry for your personal loss. But I agree with @M.T.C on this. Our army brass is like a mafia now and this is what needs to be corrected.
@Jamhooriat
That is understood. DOGar court can only be used for DO(n)GAR
@fahad_guraya: I’m a Proud Pakistani. My objective is to make the case for reform in the system of government and to advocate democratic values which have NO place for army/isi interference in our national politiacl life.
I understand ISI is our first line of defense, and for it to stay that way, it is the duty of all concerned citizens to convince anyone/everyone that they can that it is INDEED in the interest of Pakistan that our Military and our intelligence agencies focus on their jobs and not on power politics within the state.
False patriotism is also to be exposed. I speak harshly against THE ACTIONS of our pillars of state, but I do not condone their dissolution. They should do their job and I will be with them in the trenches fighting for Pakistan. But the moment they start doing sh!t like interfering in politics, It is my patriotic duty to stop this excess.
It is our duty as citizens to keep the various organs of state accountable and within their boundries. Mindless and false patriotism (support ISI in any case despite whatever it does) does not help Pakistan! Actually it hurts Pakistan and it has hurt Pakistan by stopping all constructive criticism for the betterment of our nation in the name of “patriotism”.
Would a sane and honourable person “support” their father even if they knew he was raping their sister? There are similar limits to “Patriotism” which has also been described as “the last refuge of the scoundrel.”
@shirkuh: I don’t think it was “the taliban” who protected our western borders, it was the proud paThan tribesmen who did. It wasn’t the ideology of faux-islam espoused by the “taliban” that did it IMO.
As someone claim on this thread to be his daughter–Its difficult for me at least to talk against this man anymore.
We should respect the sentiments of a daughter though facts still remain the same.
Seems plausible that the letter is in fact from ISI. Why would the “names” otherwise be hidden? If Alvi wanted to expose the “culprits” then why hide their names?
@Jazoo
“We should respect the sentiments of a daughter though facts still remain the same.”
Don’t be so sure about the “facts”. There might be other “facts” too……..manipulation
@GoTK
” I don’t think it was “the taliban” who protected our western borders, it was the proud paThan tribesmen who did. It wasn’t the ideology of faux-islam espoused by the “taliban” that did it IMO.”
You may be right, but at least we didn’t witness threats like the ones we are facing today.
@ Jazoo > I agree!
@shirkuh
Only time will tell–we can discuss what we know.
@Jazoo
That’s the problem…we KNOW nothing for sure.
I saw some people creating hatred against Pak Army… i am not an army person but still i will prefer you people donot spread hate against Pakistani forces because thats what our enemy wants. They dont want us to be united, they dont want civilians and army to be united….no matter wats right and wrong we should be carefull while talking about our Arms our protectors…I think Pakistan army should immediately stop killing our own citizens because if they will not stop the hatred will start building up in civilians. I think Pakistan esteblishment should pressurize the govt for independence judiciary and should bring all corrupt elements in court whether Army officials or Beaurocrates …. All we need is justice which is the base and everything will be ok…
@Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar
I dont agree with you about the agreements with Taliban. I think govt should do negotiations because there is no other solution. Killing innocent people is not the solution. We should not fight for others we have to bring peace in our country. And there was no suicide atttacks and nothing was wrong during Taliban govt in Afghanistan. so this can show who is our enemy and who is not. All the suicide started after Us invasion and Karzai’s govt and all the indian assets came into Pakistan via wester border to de-stabilize our country. I cant believe that how u ppl close your eyes from facts….
@Shirkuh
I agree with you.
I take exception to the article author’s wild speculations here. The fact of “such loyalties” has not been established. Neither in the article nor in the letter which is actually about a quibble about office politics at the highest levels of our army brass… (nevertheless, it doesn’t even imply, let alone PROVE that this man was somehow ‘a traitor’)
If previous allegations are concerned then Abul-A’laa-maududi was the biggest traitor. He opposed Pakistan, his party took part in all kinds of fascist activities in cahoots with the military and the americans.
If anyone is to be called a ‘traitor’ ‘based on some facts’ it ought to be the founder of Jamat Islami.
All of you here stop demeaning the dead . Dont just start talking and criticizing about things you have no idea about . First of all my father renounced his Bristish citizenship he was not a dual national he gave it up to join Pak army .Secondly all you calling him names stop it . Cowards only talk from behind doors MY dad maybe dead we are not > Ask u well answer …. HOW dare you call my father a traitor ….EVen if you do you are no on to decide .. we all forgetin life we may not get justice but im waiting for the end the perect justice because GOD makes no mistakes .
Stop your abuses and talk like humans first.
NO we are his daughters but i assure you we are not weak or cowards like you . Talk about him we will answer you .
@shirkuh: we are facing the threats PRECISELY because these so called ‘taliban’ have killed off the mushran of the tribes and destroyed the jargah system. They have created a fitnah in the tribal area which has engulfed the local Pashtuns in this internecine war.
The taliban ARE THE REASON our western borders are insecure. And guess who benefits most from our Western protections gone?
INDIA! They are using ISI’s foreign-policy medicine against Pakistan itself.
(These “islamic” taliban are nothing but puppets in the hands of foreign masters of RAW/MOSSAD)
@ Shirkuh
We know couple of things for sure.
1) Letter was handed to a british journalist and as a result he maligned pak army.
2) Maj. Gen Alvi was killed in broad day light.
Draw your conclusions now.
and stop hurling abuses . talk like humans first. There is no treason nothing . Go and meet someone who had met my father even once dont act like riff raffs blowing whistles on the street .
and some mr up there who said if your father had committed treason he sould be punished > What the heck are you talking abt?
All the letter said was his request for his medal of service that is all.,
my father never discussed official mattters with anyone .
@Ghost Of TK
Thanks for long lecture. But you didnt answer all of my Questions i asked you about BEARD stuff as well..
Anyways before saying anything in favour of ISI i also mentioned about Missing Persons and i also believe this kind of things should not happened and i also believe ISI should work outside politics. But the point is at this time when we tension is rising against Indian aggression and Pakistan is under pressure to do something about ISI we should not talk against ISI, we should defend ISI on International front. By the way do u know who assisnated Gen ALVI??? and you are blamming ISI and you sstarted talking against ISI even having no evidence. and start talking against Pak Army without having any evidence thats what India is doing in case of Mumbai…..India has no evidence and they are shouting against Pakistan…..
So first get the facts intact and then raise finger towards Pakistan Army or ISI or anyone…….
IF ISI played some bad role in case of missing people as Amna Janjua said it doesnot mean they are involved in all roles.
@ manidr
Who do you think killed your dad?
who is the administator of this website?
and why was he killed?
@manidr
Sorry to dig a little further. Could you please explain the whole affair from your point of view? Who was the enemies of your father and did they assassinate him?
@Ghost Of TK
Get your facts right…..Taliban said if India will attack Pakistan they will defend Pakistan. The real trouble is not taliban the real trouble is US and NATO. There was no threats from taliban in Pakistan before 9/11 which means taliban are not trouble making guys actually US with India is making trouble in tribal areas. If Pakistan army will stop its operation today, from tomorow there will be full peace in that region. I give u facts as welll…if u know after elections when PPP was coming into government during that time no suicide attack or no such incident took place becoz Govt was still thinking about these people. But definately if you will kill those people on US advice they will definately fight against u that is quite logical response.
@manidr
If your father never discussed any matter with anyone then how come British journalist got this letter???
@manidr
I would also say why dont u people give un-censored version of letter??? so that we also know who are the prepetuators?? Why u people are still hiding the truth?? say it loudly ….. do u still have threats?????
@manidar
Can u please share some information with other visitors,
1- Gen Alvi belonged to which area/district?
2- how many kids he has (sons, daughters)
3- his family suspects some one in his murder?
what r names of 2 Generals in the letter?
thanks
should any murder that happens be investigated or not? just because he is assumed to be a ‘traitor’, it should be brushed under the carpet? but then rule of law in my beloved pakistan? ‘what is that’?
@GoTK
I never considered MQM and Beardo Brigade as separate entities they would/could never be independent entities however they may do some operations independently but they can never exist on their own. It is the Army/ISI which is the guarantee of their (MQM/Beardo Brigade) existence. And that’s what whole world is concerned about (of course whole world is not worried about MQM yet but let me make a prediction like Italian mafia of whom once the whole Europe was concerned their is a great chance that whole Asia might be concerned about MQM pretty soon) … So MQM and Mullahs exist because of ISI , whole world is worried about this nexus , although I am not very hopeful as world is afraid of nuclear blackmail , however it is quite possible that civilized world this time decides to make the right decision at right time. We will have to wait though till Obama takes oath.
hey guys,
check out the opinion piece in today’s Journal.
Price discovery for Mr. Zardari?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122939093016909205.html
I have come to realise that it is so stupid of us to ask them such questions. If these people can kill Maj Gen Alvi then do you think they will spare his daughters if they reveal such information on a forum like this.
Guys, you can draw your conclusions from the facts we know but please restrain yourself even when you criticise a “traitor”.
@manidar,
You can contact me at admin_at_pkpolitics_dot_com.
Admin
@PejaMistri
It is not only ISI who is protecting MQM. It is also ZPP. The British claim that they are not being provided any help from the PAK government regarding MQM.
- If ZPP is not in charge then why don’t they come at tell the nation?
- Who are they protecting?
- Why “run” a government, when one is not allowed to take independent decisions?
- And why has the AZ not given his dictatorial powers? Is it also ISI who is demanding this?
@PejaMistri
“We will have to wait though till Obama takes oath.”
Strange that we still hope for a change from Obama…..He will prove that he is more “white” than the whites. The white community (and the Jews) will closely follow all his steps and ensure that he keeps his promises……
@pejamistri
I am quite surprise on your comment, dont blame someone like Mulla’s, we all have this habit to blame others and we never dig inside ourself… I am very surprise that we as a Pakistani invite others to attack our country. Obama will be much more stonger than Bush so he will kill more innocent people in our tribal areas. I am afraid that if you are from Pakistan then people like you invite other foreigners to kill your own brothers and sisters…
The internal rift seems pretty nasty as the military officers quoting above are pretty angry.
Doent we have a law which states that any one who has dual nationality cant join armed forces of Pakistan????
Source of above news is http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=18997
I also recall reading an article from the Alvi’s daughter sometime back. I remember during the first few days after the murder, the news was about him being killed by the Taliban as he did the Operation Mountain Lion.
Assalam-o-Alaikum,
Major General (Retd.) Ameer Faisal Alavi assasinated last month, it is not an act of appreciation and honour. We as a human, each and every one has to taste the death and it is a reality. I personally feel sorry, for his near and dear once left behind in this sad moment.
I want to suggest the visitors of this website, please let her both daughters @eza and @manidr clear their view point than its better to give our comments on this issue.
Ms.aza your reply wasn’t satisfy enough when the bro. asked why your beloved father deadly against agreement rather R.G. Alvi was ambitious to decorate the killing field in Northern Areas you were trying to divert the attention from very specific question & you countered as if he was so patriotic he served 35 years in Armed Services with full hardship this & that blah blah Ms.aza regret to state instead of answering in simple & straight way you charged to this Pakistani Nation as —–thankless nation—–
Mam what noncense this please reply in an appropriate manner WHY this R.G. namely FAISAL ALVI was not in favour of PEACE AGREEMENT at NORTHERN AREAS in other words why he was serving AMERICAN AGENDA?
hey people dont say crap if u dont knw abt facts.does anyone knw wat iz a commando.it iz nt an ordinary thing people.n Major general Alvai waz a true comando.there r so many thingz he did jst 4 hiz country by endangering his life u guys even cant imagine dat.he waz a true soldier.he waz iz n will alwayz be our HERO.v r proud of Him.n d one who waz talking abt dat col who waz martyr in Lal Majid operation wat do u knw abt hm were u with hm dat time.oh common people everyone knwz wat waz truth.go n ask from their families who gt maytr in Lal masjid operation.wat waz Mulna Aziz doing in Burqa.Pakistan’s OUR country; FUCK OFF TALIBAN/AL-QAEDA!!We should respect our Heros.v r proud of Major General Alvai. if v dont do that dn it is a shame for us.
im gen alavis elder daughter i will answer you.
Give me proof my father said that. The letter published doenst state anything regarding northern province
Most of the people are not aware the people raising riots in northern areas are not i repeat they are not Pakistanis . THey have no ove for this country they are from other countries if they are so worried about the state of Islam as they claim to be why are they not fighting from their own countries why are they residingin our country creating problems with in and causing the whole world to point fingers at us.
I strongly think no matter who ever it is rioting in Norther area i dont care wt religion he is form what is his caste wtever who ever is dusruppting peace in our country should be eliminated .
I dont think you have been following news closely over the years most of the militants donot belong to pakistan . Tell them go fight in their own country dont use our land for terrorism
Here is the link to the article quoted above
http://islamabadobserver.wordpress.com/2008/11/21/from-a-daughter-to-her-father-mehvish-alvi-to-genr-faisal-alvi/
I must say that my sympathies are with the General’s family… if he was killed by the ISI then I believe he was righteous … though being in Pakistan Army (Mafia) and being righteous are two diametrically opposed possibilities
As to the comments published in the news
i mean people will say what everthey can say I have yet to see a murderer or a guilty man accept in open public he committed a crime . when confronted they all blame the other person.
All these allegations are totally baseless there is no domestic dispute, no sectarinism , and no other cause as these people claim .
IF we still till today have not been able to find Benazirs killers or gen musthtaqs killers i have no expectations either
I told you before , we all await perfect justice
Please do not label any one traitor without concrete proofs. Till now we having nothing against him except a letter( which may be even forged). It is sad that he has been killed and we should show some respect to the dead soul. His previous UK nationality and his sister marriage have no significance. Your Quaid dauger was married to a Parsi. Everyone is accountable only for his own acts.
Do not push his daughters to answer your questions if they don’t want to. May be they also feel themselves in danger by exposing anything on such a forum or may be they are bound to not disclose secrets related to his office.
@manidr
Very strange answer….. Eliminating everyone without having any evidence is not the solution.. If the people in northern areas are foreigners they should bring to court of justice and should be handeled according to LAW.. we are not a banana republic that we start eliminating everybody thats why i was supporting your fathers death that he should bring to justice instead of assesinating on the road.
You were asking for prove that your father never went against agreements but your statement itself is a prove what you are asking for. Your point of view is just similar to your fathers. I am sorry to say killing everyone is not the solution whether its ur father or the tribal people. We should bring peace in our country instead of killing everybody. We should not fight for others. We should live in peace and harmony.
I remember 2 -3 years back complaining to my father the state of the military he just told me one thing
Army is an institution dont blame an institution for anything ever its the man at the top who governs it. he makes it great or bad
similarly , in answer to someone above who said who can be someone right and belong to the army mafia .
All overthe world people call Pakistan a terrorist state ….assuming you are from PAkistan , it means you are one too? isnt it
jsut because one or 2 people are bad doesnt mean the whole lot is bad
I told you before if you want to know about my father ask some one who knows him. Dont ask a gen dont ask a major , a col ask a normal soldier ask a jawan about him.
My father was never the regular general . His mentor was Brig T. M
he taught me something he learned from him. LIfe is with your soldiers he taught me
he told me how good a peron or human you are does not show from the amount of seniors that are happy with you it shows from the amount of normal jawans are happy with you. We never celebrated a single eid with our relatives . we celebrated them in the mountains and wilderness of cherat with th jawans . Eid with the troops he always said.
THere may be danger to us no doubt but my father was never scared and so are we. HE had only 2 daughters that is all.
The grief of my dads killing was overhsadowed by the countless love of people i saw on his funeral, the letters i received condoling.Even in our grief we wont let anyone of you malign our fathers name.
There is no one amongst you who would rise and be bold enoughh to speak knowing you would be killed yet you continuing asking us questions or throwing dirt on my fathers name. I wont stop you people you have your minds and your thinking but i grieve for my father who left another country to serve this nation only to recieve comments of traitor in the end
For the last time im telling you he renounced his citizenship when he joined the army .
The debate has become far too personal since the daughters of Mr. Alvi are participating.
I agree with @manidr that we need not foreign fighters in PAK, but we don’t need to fight like mercenaries either. We should have handled the whole problem in our own indigenous way by negotiating instead of using brutal force on behalf of the Yankees. By killing the so called “enemy” we only create more animosity and hatred. We should eliminate any threat wisely and go for long term and lasting solutions. We will not and cannot obtain that by acting like mercenaries! Especially the PAK army needs to understand that. They also need to understand that they cannot continue to interfere in civilian matters and sell Pakistanis to Yankee jails!
No dont spare us dont show us mercy the people on this forum have already showed alot of mercy.
A war was started now finish it.You people didnot think of anything when you were slinging dirt on my father. NOw dont back off . finish the fight you started.
WHo killed him? who killed him indeed? when you find the killers of benazir and gen mushtaq i will tell you.
I wont say a word about who killed him but i told you before i await perfect justice. EVen if you hang his killers today you cant bring my father back .
I forgive the people who killed him . In this life we may not get justice but i wait for perfect justice i wait for the day when no one like you is there to sling mud and when GOd decides. I just await to join my father that is all i do.
Dont go back on you words now because you discovered his daughters are on this forum. People did not think when they were slinging mud and dirt at him.
ALl you people see is british journalist …..damn thats a treason without a thought without a ponder you speak . I dont blame any of you. May GOd show you light is all i can say.
@ mr listen why do you wish to upload his pic dancing on a wedding , enlighten me?
manidr Says: im gen alavis elder daughter i will answer you.Give me proof my father said that. The letter published………..
Well CHOTI BB TOU SHAIED NADAN/JAZBATI HOGAI THI — MAGAR BARI BB SUBHANALLAH:
You came up with another charge that we/PAKISTANIs are not aware of such news e.g. infiltration of forign elements at Northern Areas:
MASHALLAH SUBHANALLAH Now Ms.Elder daughter of Alvi listen with all ears (If you’re not an Indian Imposter)in an approximate manner for the last 5 years Pakistani Print & very specific the Electronic Media including BBC Urdu Service (particularly Shafi Naqi Jamie & Wussat Ullah Khan in their own Programmes) various time harping the same string i.e. —KINDLY SHOW BEFORE US(the MEDIA) THOSE DEAD BODIES WHO BELONG TO OTHER NATIONALITY— as you charged —BUT— never Pak Army neither AMERICAN showed those so called UZBIK, TAJIK or CHECHAN these were only in issued STATEMENTs.
TILL IN TO-DATE NO ANY SINGLE RECOGNIZED FORIEGHNER’S BEEN CAPTURED OR KILLED IN THESE KILLING FIELD AS YOUR BELOVED FATHER IN TOO MUCH FAVOUR.
So you both factory of CHARGEs/BLAMEs first of all assemble at your end all established facts & figures other wise go into archieves & see the dead bodies of those innocent your own MUSLIM BROs/Sis./elders & even children they’d been killed in MADRASAs, MARRIAGE Ceremony, Hospitals in Warrandas of thier own home.
And your father was in favour of killing of these innocent AGAIN the repeated QUESTION is WHY?
@manidr
I am trying to make myself believe that General Alvi died for a better cause , and he was one who tried to uproot the extremists from Pakistan , I am also trying make myself believe that he was killed by the people who are enemies of Pakistan.
Your arguments however are making it hard for me to believe this, I have heard these stupid and preposterous arguments from many mafia members , the army as an institution is corrupt , all Pakistani’s being terrorists , all these arguments are given by the people who are either part of the mafia or by the people who need some classes in logic.
It is not one or two corrupt persons which make the whole institution corrupt it is the whole top brass that makes it a mafia, those soldiers who act upon the orders of their superiors to kill the innocents can not take the plea of being innocent acting upon the orders of superiors.
Many people here will consider your father traitor as he killed the “innocents” in Wana , I don’t personally know what your father was doing during the general Zia’s era , did he (your father) had a beard , did he used to go for Fajar prayer and used to hear Modoodi’s ders-e-quran , and did he took part in Jihad against the soviets in Afghanistan , if so … he might just be a member of the mafia who developed differences with the don and paid the price….
however I hope that this is untrue…
@manidr
i had no wrong or bad intentions….i just wanted to show how a happy manhe was and how bruteky he was murdered….hey by the way we are related…
Brigadier (r) Samson Simon Sharaf
It is the destiny of every professional soldier to lie in wait for a day that may never come and yet be prepared if it does even at the peril of his life. Soldiering for me and my friends like Alvi, spans those romantic expanses of military life through all its peaks and valleys, which none other than soldiers grasp; and always leading towards a horizon of ideals that no other profession can rival.
The honour of the country is paramount; that of the men one commands the next; and self, the last
It is only this profession that reaches the closest zeniths of ideals, as its brave soldiers are expected to sacrifice their today for the tomorrow of others; the ultimate destiny for a professional soldier whenever the need so arises.
Such are the rallying points to build courage when valour seems to fail; to regain faith when despair abounds; and to create hope when it is forlorn. It is the integration and internalising of this code that arouses a sense of pride and yet of humility which was and will be, with me always
We belong to the breed of officers that volunteered for the Army after the tragedy of 1971. These 36 years have taught us to be proud as well as be unbending in honest failure. It opened vistas of true wisdom and meekness of strength. Our emotions were not ours alone but also shared by every individual of the armed forces. There was therefore always, a temperate will, a quality of imagination, vigour of the emotions, an appetite for adventure and the resolve to win back the lost honour.
The day I joined Pakistan Military Academy, a group of seniors especially came to see me. Though I spoke lucid English, they were all amused to hear me speak urdu in typical Lahori dialect. A just for fun ragging was followed by a visit to the cafeteria, where we chanced to talk of our linkages with Pakistanis in Kenya, my sister being one. I was impressed the way he talked of Pakistan and the army. It was later I learnt that he had renounced his British moorings only to join the army.
Alvi loved to flirt with danger. In boxing he took on Talat, a cadet twice his weight and danced around him. In assault course, he set a record and jumped obstacles so reminiscent of the safari land he came from. He ran like a true Kenyan marathon runner and would always lead in the grueling nine miles run
In 1973, we did our adventure parachuting course together. We were instructors together in School of Infantry and Tactics and did our Staff course in Quetta in 1985 in the same batch. That’s when we both got our second daughters.
We had frequent contacts in 1999-2000 when he commanded the SSG and I was in Military Operations. Then again when he was a Major General, we worked together on the Heliborne Rapid Reaction Force.
After our retirements, we usually brushed shoulders at Tai Pan Restaurant of PC Rawalpindi. Despite the unceremonious exit, he had not lost his bubbling demeanor and confidence. He was just the same.
To me he remains a living memory of a young teenager shouting ‘four men left door’ as we prepared to jump from the 34 feet tower. He was so full of life, vigor and energy
the above article was written by a juinor of his
this is an article written by my father at the killing of his favorite officer lt col haroon
A tribute to Lt Col Haroon ul Islam
Maj Gen Amir Faisal (R)
The untimely and very unfortunate death of Lt Col Haroon ul Islam, a very fine and motivated Special Services Group officer, has driven me to write a little tribute to this young and energetic officer of the Special Service Group of the Pakistan Army who was loved by all and sundry. The day he embraced “shahadat” at the hands of these misguided and ignorant fanatics, I received a telephone call from my daughters in the USA at 4.00 am in the morning. Answering the call a little annoyingly, being a little groggy as I was fast asleep, I asked them whether they realized what the time was in Pakistan. “Papa, haven’t you heard the news, Uncle Terra, (as they affectionately and be musingly used to call him) has been killed in the Lal Masjid operation!” They were visibly perturbed at the news. This made me jump up from my bed as I sought further details from them. They had been surfing the net in Maryland, USA, when they bumped into this news. It was daytime in the USA.
I told them that I knew he was there as I had talked to him the first day that he had arrived in Islamabad and I had wished him the very best, having full confidence in his capabilities and boldness as he had served under me when I commanded the Special Services Group as Commander Special Services Group and later on when I came back again to the Special Services Group as the first GOC SSG, I did my best to get him back into the SSG as the Commanding Officer of Zarar Anti Terrorist Unit, whose command had now been upgraded to that of a Lieutenant Colonels’ from that of a Major and which he had commanded earlier during my first tenure as a Major. My efforts eventually bore fruit and he did come back but was posted back in a late time frame and by that time, I had been retired and we did not get to serve together again.
I felt his loss at his not being there when the SSG was tasked to move to Waziristan to rescue the two Chinese hostages who had been kidnapped from the Gomal Dam by Abdullah Mahsuds’ terrorist cronies. The previous company commander had been posted out and Zarar Company now having been re-designated as Zarar Anti – terrorist Unit awaited its first Lieutenant Colonel and, obviously, for me there was no better choice than Haroon ul Islam whose name I passed to the Military Secretary’s Branch, which, to my utter dismay, took its time in posting him back and hence, he was not available for this operation. The unit thus moved for the operation without a commander and to cater for that I sent Lieutenant Colonel Waseem Ayub, also a good officer the Headquarters Special Services to command the unit for this operation as all the young Captains in the unit were very new in it and lacked the requisite experience. Zarar did well as expected, killing all five kidnappers and rescuing one of the two Chinese, taken hostage. The other Chinese, very unfortunately, came in the crossfire and died of his wounds. It was my firm belief and it still is till today that had Lieutenant Colonel Haroon been around, we would have managed to rescue the second Chinese too. I reiterated this belief of mine to the Military Secretary when I saw him the next time, only to get in return, a sheepish smile.
He need not have been there when his troops were laying that breaching charge against the Lal Masjid walls but true to his nature of always leading from then front, he was there. As the SSG had been doing this with stealth for the last few days, it appeared that the terrorists inside were alert this time and as they withdrew after laying the charges and to explode them, a burst of fire erupted in the dark out of which two bullets hit the gallant Haroon, one in the leg and the other below the neck. The one below the neck proved fatal. Major Tariq who was also hit in the pelvis and the other few men picked up Haroon and withdrew his body to safety by returning fire in the dark in the direction from where the fire had come. This warriors’ time was ended as per destined. He had already done a lot since his arrival at the spot just a few days back. He had personally sited all his snipers who took in one volley a heavy toll of the terrorists. The terrorists never showed their heads again knowing that they were now dealing with some real professionals. His men if they move in now to clear the terrorists will move in with a vengeance. The terrorists will stand no chance against his highly trained commandoes. It will take them only a few minutes if the approval is accorded.
One day he came to me and requested that he wanted to do the High Altitude High/Low Opening freefall parachutist course at the Parachute Training School in Peshawar. This was a course which was both dangerous initially and equally thrilling and I knew that every SSG officer wanted to do this course for the challenge. “No way,” I said, “your outfit has nothing to do with sky diving. You ought to concentrate on your primary job which is hostage rescue and anti terrorist duties.” I enjoyed the way he kept pestering me for the course and also sent his good friend the Officer Commanding the Parachute School to recommend him for the course. Finally, I submitted to his request and he delightfully went for the course. The Officer Commanding the Parachute School kept me informed about the course and it was news for me to learn that Haroon had topped the course and had completed his jumps but wanted to jump again the next day as there were some officers and men who still needed to complete his jumps. I accorded the permission on being impressed at his standing out so well in the course.
The next day I was in Tarbela witnessing some exercise when it was conveyed to me that there had been a parachuting accident at the Durrani drop zone in Peshawar and two officers had been seriously injured and one of them was Haroon ul Islam. I left for Peshawar immediately and went straight to the CMH. There I met the OC Parachute School who explained that during the last jump Haroons’ and another officers’ parachutes had collided in midair and Haroons’ leg had got entangled with the lines of the other parachute once they were at 800 feet above ground level. This had made the canopies of both the parachutes collapse into cigarette rolls and also gets into a spin, which in turn increased the descent speed of the parachutes over five times. Resultantly, both of them had come hurdling towards the ground and had hit it at a speed which virtually made dust rise which could be seen at a distance. “Will they survive?” I asked worryingly. The Officer Commanding Parachute Training School replied in the affirmative but told me they had bad injuries.
Haroon had broken his pelvis badly and the fall had badly rattled his bones. I saw him as he was brought back from the X-ray department. Meanwhile, my wife who also lived in Peshawar had also reached the hospital and was with me as he emerged in the Officers ward on a stretcher. Happy at seeing him alive, “I knew you’d do something on this course and you’ve done it”. I joked with him in a mean manner. He managed a smile till my wife asked him how he was feeling. “I am in great pain, Bhabi, “he whispered to my wife”. Okay, but don’t show it to anyone here, you are a brave commando and are known as such, my wife whispered back to him and then went straight to the doctor to tell him to administer him a pain killer. The next day Haroons wife was also there and then we saw his entire pelvis and leg plastered with his leg hauled up and a weight dangling on the other side.
It was while he was on crutches that General Parvez Musharraf was appointed as the Colonel in Chief of the SSG and dinner at Cherat of all SSG serving and retired officers was followed by a musical evening and once the musical group, the Jupiters started playing the Bhangra song, the entire SSG as well as General Parvez Musharraf watched as they saw a person on crutches coming upfront in front of the stage to do the Bhangra. And then the entire SSG jumped in to do the Bhangra! That very evening, he rattled out in Punjabi, a poem dedicated to his city, Lahore. He was a very proud Lahori and this poem of this exalted the virtues of the city of Lahore.
Most of his sisters live abroad in Canada; I hear they are on the way to their family home to attend their brave and courageous brothers’ last rites. His elder brothers loved him too. He was their little brother that they were so proud of a professional commando officer, their kid brother! I think about the agony his wife and two little daughters would be in at this stage. The elder one was very attached to him. The younger one may be too young to ever remember her father, later. His family has lost him at the hand of those terrorists who profess to be better Muslims then the others, with their perverted intolerantly indoctrinated minds. What about his loving mother who doled over him, so much as he was her youngest son! Is it gratifying for her to learn that her courageous son, having survived Kargil, having survived such a dangerous parachute accident, having survived so many ordeals of commando life, finally met his end at the hands of so called Muslims or as they proclaim to be, better Muslims. We remember his mother shouting angrily at the SSG officers to put her son down as he could get injured when they were tossing him in the air on his wedding day, as per SSG tradition. Jolly good fellow as they call it in the Army and making one airborne as they call it in the SSG. For his mother, this was no tradition. She was simply shocked to see him being tossed real high in the air as he as well as his friends laughed. “Put my son down,” she ordered “You will hurt my Bubloo”, she said to the now startled SSG officers.
His men simply loved him for his straight forwardness, professional honesty and leadership qualities as the SSG calls for much higher leadership qualities as officers in the SSG have to lead from the front to be respected by their troops. To be really respected by the troops in the SSG is an acid test of leadership qualities. The SSG will remain proud of him, forever, I am sure
my father never had a beard , he was very secular. my father was a sunni my mother is a shia and we have never had a fight in our life on basis of sects
Mr adnan ansari
If you father was killed in a brutal manner and people were slingng mud at him i would like to see your reaction.
In the angoor ada operation please check the bodies of foreign citizens were shown.
HOW Have you been working to make pakistan strong tell me? if you think im a traitor cause im against religious fanaticism then maybe i am . GOd has not given authority to label any other person as a better worse or non muslim. I tols you before we all wait GOds judgement we are mere humans we are no one to decide who is muslim and who is not a muslim
There is one single thing that is nagging me and it does not some how fit in picture. If lets say, for sake of argument, Maj. Gen Alvi did not hand this letter to british journalist then why was he killed? You dont kill people out of jealousy for sure.
There are only two players who could have killed Maj. Gen Alvi. One is taliban and other is ISI. Taliban do not kill people in such a manner for many reasons, I wont go in details. So that leaves ISI, but why would ISI do that if Maj. Gen Alvi did not pass this letter to british journalist ….
listen mr adnan stop referring me as bb.ok learn some respect .
Im his daughter graduate of army medical college 2005 . I think all of you with these observations are indians .dont throw stones if you live in a glass house urself
manidr’s LONG ARTICLE but with full of HANKY PANKY.
This was my right to ask you straight & simple answer but it is understood you will never be able to provide the same.
YOU BOTH WILL & with the assistance of SOME INDIANs just try to DIVERT the ATTENTION from the CORE BURNING QUESTION.
Therefore mine religious duty is ended here, as you’re not ready to ANSWER the simple & straight QUESTION as I just pray for you both to UNDERSTAND the TRUTH & the RIGHT PATH.
I really feel ashamed when I read this thread, he was an officer of Pakistan Army, No matter what he served Pakistan and the way he died is completely wrong, May GOD give courage to his daughters.
We are Pakistanis you morrons, RESPECT!!
You guys even forget family values, they are just like our own sisters.
Waisay for me this was a very low point as a Pakistani.
@TK
-Had our first Martial Law Administrator religious background?
-Had Yahya Khan religious background?
-Discrimination with Bengalies , from the start, committed by religious elements or the f…king beureucracy and military establishment?
-Was Musharaf, zia, Nawaz Sharif, BB, zardari are religious or belong to liberal segment?
-Who ruled on this country, was religious element or secular, liberal and military element?
IF RELIGIOUS ELEMENT IN PAKISTANI POLITICS DID “BIG” MISTAKES, THEN YOU NAME IT RELIGIOUS TRAITORS, AND IF SECULAR , LIBERAL FASCIST DID MISTAKES , YOU DON’T CALL THEM LIBERAL , secular TRAITORS. WHY????????
Why only religious traitors, why not liberal fascist? have you courage to consider it?
(Why there is only Islamic terrorism, why not chirtian terrorism, hindu terroroism, jewish terrorism,,, why only Islamic…)
And I am no fan of this ARMY, dispise them when most of you wore nappies!!
Jamil I am glad you are concerned about your sisters. However, there is nothing wrong with debating an issue of national importance. Everyone here is as patriotic as you and your sisters and we are all entitled to our opinions.
If rules were being bent in Army then Maj. Gen Alvi should have informed his superiors and prime minister about it, not hand a secret letter to a british journalist. British journalist is maligning ISI on the basis of this letter now. Who should we blame for it?
manidr Says:listen mr adnan stop referring me as bb.ok learn some respect………….
It is doubted your all sences are not in working position so called Ms. Graduate THIS PARTICULAR WORD —– BB —— is highly respectable in our SOCIAL SET UP.
BY the Way haven’t you heard from this particular word from PPP high profile Ministers they often use for their leader i.e. BENAZIR BHATTO.
I think Adnan we should not fight, instead we should see the big picture that what and why it is happening in our lovely homeland. If you will see the big picture you can easily understand. We dont know who killed Lt Col Haroon ul Islam and we also dont know who have killed Maj. Gen. Faisal Alvi. We cannot blame anybody unless we have facts. The one clear fact is this that it is happened only due to “U-turn” of Gen. Musharaf. Lal Masjid operation was a total collapse and we dont know whether Col Haroon got killed by own men bullet or by the so called “terrorist” who have never shown to media not even their bodies… It might not happened if we dont follow US policies and we try to solve everything on table instead of killing each other. Thats what happening now in Pakistan we are killing own people and thats what our enemy wants that we will fight with each other on the name of so called “Terrorism”. Are we mad or are we dont have courage to see the truth. If all the world says we have terrorist it does not mean we have terorrist…..2 wrong doesnot make 1 right. We should think by ourself by looking on the facts and without any sentiments. We went to a non ending war we should stop immediately otherwise we will loosse good commandos like Col Haroon and our innocent citizen of tribal areas, I always feel bad whenever i heard that either an army officer or a innocent civilian got killed in my beautiful homeland…. are we dead???? will we kept on looking these things??? will we keep quite all the time??? Our enemies are very intelligent they made such a scenario in our country that we are killing each other thats what they want and they are very happy on it…. I think we should immediately stop killing our own innocent civilianz and should stop Gen Musharafs policies otherwise we will never be able to stop it and which might end up in (Khuda na khawasta)disintegration of my lovely homeland.
Allah Bless U all Pakistanis
ALLAH Bless U PAKISTAN
May Allah help us in stopping this fight
@aza – why hell he gave such crucial secret info/names to a Britisher if he was so PROUD Pakistani. Being a Maj. Gen and CEO/ED of a telecom company, was he unable to find a single trustworthy Pakistani, beside his soul? Isn’t it AMAZING?
@jazoo – 100% agree “He should be kept alive to face the public hanging for treason” or set free if found innocent and yeah would be eligible to get HI or may be NH” so that his PROUD daughter can show it to the world.
@lofty
the same ISI will in future pick our family members!! Dont defend them bro.
If ISI was a good secret service then Pakistan would have been in a better state externally and internally. This means its an incompetent and a thrid class institution.
“I really feel ashamed when I read this thread, he was an officer of Pakistan Army, No matter what he served Pakistan and the way he died is completely wrong, May GOD give courage to his daughters.
We are Pakistanis you morrons, RESPECT!!
You guys even forget family values, they are just like our own sisters. ”
my sentiments exactly! this must be an all-time low for pkpolitics. I always thought very highly of this site and (most of) the contributors on here. but this discussion is shameful. at least stop the mudslinging now that Gen Alavi’s daughters are reading this.
personally, I think that Admin should shut this discussion down. it is one thing to speculate or discuss something. it is another to throw dirt at someone who is not there to defend himself and in the process, hurt his family members who loved him so much.
Manidr and Aza, please know that not all of us agree with the nonsense being written above. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the officers who put Pakistan above everything else. Despite the fact that I have not been involved with the mudslinging, I apologize to you for the hurt this discussion has caused you.
Most of us have problems with Musharraf and his supporters. But as Pakistanis, virtually all of us are very proud of the army officers who have given their everything for the love of our country – your father included.
@lofty
You wrote: “Jamil I am glad you are concerned about your sisters. However, there is nothing wrong with debating an issue of national importance. Everyone here is as patriotic as you and your sisters and we are all entitled to our opinions.”
Kido you can debate no one is stopping you, their dad was murdered, atleast refrain ur self a bit.
I think Pakistani establishment is ready to self-combust. Killing their own is a first sign of this mental breakdown.
We should accelerate this process so that we can rid ourselves of their slavery. ISI and army has directly and indirectly killed more pakistanis than any external force in Pakistan’s short history. Time to make our move before this one is lost too.
ISI picked up people on the orders of Musharraf. ISI was compelled to comply to its superior’s orderds. You cant blame ISI for that. You cant even conceive how vulnerable Pakistan would have been with out ISI.
ISI is our eyes and ears, every country in the world has such an organisation. I dont have to comment on your last point because even the arch rivals of Pakistan consider ISI to be formidable opponent. I dont know what was on your mind when you categorised it as “third class”.
@ Jamil
Can you be little more specific and tell us where you want us to refrain.
@manidr and aza, My sincere condolances.
I am of Pakistani origin. I can challange any Pakistani to prove to me that he or she is more loyal to Pakistan than myself. So those who think that he could not be loyal to Pakistan because he had British citizenship at sometime, please think of all the diaspora who send nearly 10 billion Us Dollars to Pakistan. Put togather that is more then the aid package Zardari the Snake is looking for.
Let us spend our time constructively and think of the serious International conspiracies hatched against Pakistan. Gen Alvi was a mear pawn in the great game as are Taliban, you, me and the entire Muslim Ummah.
Let us talk about contering Bush Blair agenda! They concieved in 2003 the Liberal vs Fundamentalist divide in the muslims. I refer you all to Blair the lier’s speech in Los Angles in 2003. Please awaken before it is too late. Let us think how we are going to counter these criminals!
BTW if anyone can please send old shoes to White House as a send off kiss to The DOG!!
This is a big conspiracy against Pakistan, Pakistan Army and ISI. This story is one of the chain of those allegations americans, nato, indians and israelis are accusing Pakistani ISI so this is a series of attacks on Pakistan’s existance.All these attacks comes one after another in different ways.Our government should take serious steps now before its too late.
aza and manidr,
May soul of the deceased rest in peace. I am extremely sorry for the loss of your father.
I cannot beleieve whats happening here, here we have two daughters of a slain person and we are abusing him, probing them and arguing with them for his sincerity and devotion to the country. Is this morality and patriotism. Are these the values that we say we are rich with ?
Adnan from Mansoora,
Grow up id**t. Look at your statements……….. you must have been celebrating the hanging of the dead body of Pir Samiullah by ISI in Swat, as had they done with Dr. Najib. Shame on you ……..
@ lofty.
Please allow me to DISAGREE with you here, that ‘ISI was COMPELLED to comply to it’s superior’s orders.’ If you could please read, EVEN A BIT from the ‘Manual of Pakistan Military Law,’ then you will be clear in your mind, that there is something as ‘OBEDIENCE TO LAWFUL COMMANDS’ ONLY; so, if a soldier EVEN OBEYS, (YES, OBEYS,) an ‘UNLAWFUL COMMAND; he will be EQUIVALENT GUILTY, as in, DISOBEYING A ‘LAWFUL COMMAND.’
ISI MAY BE, ONE OF THE BEST, intellengse agency in the world; but it has no such ‘orders’ from it’s ‘makers’ to act as a ‘GESTAPO,’ (the secret state police in Nazi Germany, known for it’s terrorist methods.)
Mush, was CERTAINLY an ‘AGENT’ of the Yankee/Brits, terrorists. If the then ISI head, now the army chief, HAD REFUSED to implement UNLAWFUL COMMANDS of Mush, i.e; to pick up innocent people & to collaborate to kill women & children of Jamia Hafsa, THEN NOTHING WOULD HAVE HAPPENED, to Ishfaq Kiyani. At the most he would have been sent home/relieved of his command, as the ISI head; just like this guy Faisal Alvi was sent home, by Mush.
So, there is NO COMPULSION TO DISOBEY AN ‘UNLAWFUL COMMAND.’ ISI is ’supposed’ to gather intelligence ONLY, about the enemy, & to act, ONLY, AS ‘EYES & YEARS’ (as per your own words, as above;) & NOT TO become a terrorist force/secret state police.
Lastly, I WISH TO HEAR FROM YOU, whether you AGREE or DISAGREE with my contention, as above?
“The News” link of Nov 20th issue wrt General’s assasination – Quite interesting to read as it kind of serves as FIR:
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/arc_default.asp
“The times UK” link to story by Carey Schofield :
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5337881.ece
I request people of this forum please not to hurt the emotions of Gen Alvi’s daughters.
I am forced to show constraint and i will not write anything offensive against Gen. Alvi before making a detailed research about his career. Because of the following two facts.
1) Her daughters are brave enough to defend their father on this forum which shows they value integrity.
2) If he was a real traitor, he would have been not killed in cantt area but rather playing golf with sharfoo in England.
People write so much about Sharfoo on this forum, did her daughter or son ever come to his rescue? because they are beghairat and they don’t mind.
@Manidr! you have a genuine point, don’t write anything before exploring the facts.
I am extremly sorry about the murder of Gen(Rtd) Amir Faisal Alvi in suspicious circumstances.I must say that he was killed by the same forces who raised him to the rank of SSG commander.From his forced retirement to his brutal murder their are two many questions to be answered.He must have crossed his limits somewhere.
OK Guyz !
let me wrap this up,
1st, of all may his soul rest in peace….ameen
2nd, he was a military General and he knew that “speaking against his own institution (army) is considered a sin within the military community… this is the universal principles of military world wide…. u just cant speak against your boss in military…….so speaking against his own bosses……. not a good action on his part….military just does not work like this and especially spy agencies and Commandos !
3rd, every 1 in the world knows that (Mujahidin TO Freedom Fighters TO Alqaida TO Talibans To Jihadis To Today’s Terrorists) were all result of joint US GOVT/CIA/Pakistan Military/ISI/Saudia strategy to break Soviet Union …….so lets just cut the crap here….. it is no secret….
4th, since Pakistan Military/ISI had a good relationship with these (Mujahidin TO Freedom Fighters TO Alqaida TO Talibans To Jihadis To Today’s Terrorists)along with the CIA and American Govt, so now there is nothing wrong if the ISI generals still have relationships with these people… it is a bloody hypocrisy on US and West’s part to be Mr. Cleaner especially because they were the reason for these people’s existence…. so just suck it up…
5th, most important, if General Alvi wanted to expose these links then he was committing a professional sin, so if the military took him out…….no biggie…..cz thats what you get being a mole….. !
end of story
@manidr
By the way what’s “very sechular” and sunni???
yai “very sechular” konsa firqa hai???
good riddance. may he burn in hell. he will be joined by Moshe and all the other napak army traitors soon.
i am seriously worried about the survival of our country when people like these are promoted to the top ranks in our army. i thought Moshe was a one-time mistake of Nawaz Sharif but i guess the cancer runs deep. no wonder the napak army can massacre Pakistani women and children so mecilessly, because we have traitors like these in our midst whose loyalties lie elsewhere.
Can the good friends on pkpolitics take care of this “Adnan Arshad Mansoori” , his english gives such a pain to ears that I need the ear drops… where are all the good friends on pkpolitics … I remember he (Adnan Arshad Mansoori) was treated fairly once here, somehow he was let go at that time … he needs a treatment like paindoo…..
@admin
please take care of this “Adnan Arshad Mansoori” continuously using all caps in his comments….
@adnan
Can you stop SHOUTING here… you perhaps are unable to understand the language of civil people… can you??
Sorry to say:
most of the people on this forum have no manners.they not only criticise in pathetic ways,but also cross the limits of humanity.if we check the whole thread,they are only few commentators.but sorry to say,they are trying to portray the whole so called NATION.
they are abusing and use the dirty language,only because it happen to someone else,NOT with their OWN families.my first remarks was correct in this scenario,that “IF” he was a traitor then we must say “traitor among traitors”
Because if we declared him as a traitor,then our whole nation is traitor too.
its very surprising,that we so called Proud Nation accept the imported Prime minister who got the pakistani passport at singapore airport from embassy officials,just few hour before the taking oath in pakistan.we accept the US loyalists people as our head of state,not single time,but everytime.but we simply blame the people with dual nationality.we accpet the foriegn AIDs to run our country,but feel proud to fire the flag of the same countries.we have everything for sale,including our trust loyality,honesty etc,if whatever we have.whole nation is running behind the foriegn visas,but just to portray our so called ghairat,we abuse the same nations.
@ SnrCtzn
When an order is given to a officer; he has only two options to choose from. One is to pack his bags and go home and other is to excute the order. Our ISI officers chose the latter and they should be condemned for it. So yes I agree with your basic contention. Having said that I still believe, it is not appropriate for us to malign our own institutions.
If, Gen. Kiani, had left the army at that point in time, some body else would have come along and do it for Musharraf. So Musharraf is the real culprit and he should be blamed for whole scenario not ISI.
@All
the quality of comments (and commentators) on this site has seriously gone down the drain
The timing of release of this letter by Sunday Times has a big question mark.
The Author had this letter all along the whole month but release it after UN SC sanctions against JUD & Mumbai massacre.
IMO idea is to isolate & incriminate Pak Army at the time when they need the public & moral support.
To our some Army Basher on this thread, Army is like Mulla, some are good some are bad.
These Army & Mulla Basher would never call Jews are bad because they know its slandering–Some Jews are good some are bad.
These handsome have such a long tongue when it comes to Mulla & Army bashing–They act like paindoo who does not know the meanings of slander–They are scared to Bash Jews because they know its a slander.
Mulla & Army both reflect the society they come from–Lets fix the society–fix the Paki mentality–everything will be alright.
@ADMIN
you must ban this guy adnan immediately , this is my request to you he is continuously breaching the pkpolitics comments policy. Also if you don’t mind please send me his email so that I can teach him a lesson privately in his own language…..
and please give me an exception to call him….
F**** B**** SON of ******
….
I am angry how people are bearing these people on this forum it used to be one of the best forum available….
@admin
you may delete my comment though as I see that his comments is deleted as well but please do ensure that next time this guy do not breach the comments policy….
@adnan
you need some english lessons , I suggest you hire a military teacher , he will teach you English as well as something more that you deserve.
Saying of Imam Ali
Death is never very far
BUT
Bulleh nu samjhawan ki
@all the “beardo’s” (you know who you blind, deaf, mute, jihadi jackasses are!)
I think it is an INSULT to Islamists to call you donkeys “Islamists” though I have NO LOVE for Islamists. YOU ARE THE SCUM OF MUSLIM NATION! The Shit that has blocked the sewer pipes of Islamic civilization and that is stinking up the whole world!
Look at the way you have treated this situation. From the titling of this article to the coordinated attack on the two posters who claimed to be the dead man’s daughters (taking their claims at face value that is).
You should be ashamed of yourselves! You think Islam is growing a beard and repeating some BS you heard from your nazi taliban leader. Do you even remember how The Prophet treated his own fallen enemies?
YOU DISGRACEFUL FOOLS!
Go and frikkin read something you FOOLS! Educate yourselves because your Zionist masters are using you fools like condoms once again to destroy another set of muslim countries.
May the God’s WRATH rain down on you and your ill-gotten progeny!… You have nearly destroyed Islam from the inside!
@GhostOfTK
You cannot say @all, if you have any problem with someone’s argument address to that individual/s.
What a language, is this the way of Prophet to argue someone
“May the God’s WRATH rain down on you and your ill-gotten progeny!…”
We are here to get to the facts, no one here has the ULTIMATE knowledge. If someone is looking for some details, reply otherwise keep you mouth shut.
@ksjadoon
Very well said
Mind is a thing which evolve every moment.
Under fixed pretense we close our mind.
A close mind never learn–it always think is giving knowledge not receiving because it knows too much.
If we do not learn from each other then its wastage of time.
Hopefully I would learn something from Ghost of TK as long as he is ready to learn from other as well.
“YOU ARE THE SCUM OF MUSLIM NATION! The Sh1t that has blocked the sewer pipes of Islamic civilization and that is stinking up the whole world!”
I would support TK.
I must say that most of the people here and of course all over the country think the same way as TK does (may be at a lower degree but they do, including me.
The question is, why don’t they talk then?
Coz they are afraid of recieveing FATWAS of blasphemy…
According to these mullah supporters all these mullahs and taliban have the ultimate right of doing any thing unhuman (digging out the graves and hanging the dead, cutting the throats, making the women equivalent to live stalk,…..and many more) these morons on the net are here to justify them. Have you guys ever noticed how abusive and harsh language these mullas have?
We need to think freely, talking against them doesn’t mean talking against Islam. Islam is not equivalent to Mullah+taliban as they make you to believe so……
@adminn,
I fully second TK, PEJA’s argument when it comes to the level of discourse on the blog, please take this request into consideration and purge this forum of those who are just agitating and antagonizing against the rest of us personally.
I love this website as it provides pakistani’s of all stripes a chance to engage in thought provoking conversation, by providing members to participate in “intellectual aerobics” but the operative word here is “intellectual” not mudslinging personal attacks.
i don’t know why this general was killed but how come he never said anything about the army before 2005 on this dubious “War Of Terror”.
@TK
First, give lesson to your fool, indecent and vulgar mind, control your tongue and use few decent words if you can other wise as “ksjadoon” suggest the right solution , shut your mouth.
Second, before giving lesson to beardo mind set, could you please write few words on liberal facists mind set who has been always ruling on Muslims. If you cant do, then how you will be neutral when you will analyze the situation.
BUT YOU KNOW YOU HAVE ONLY ONE PROBLEM, GIVING LECTURES TO OTHERS OF EDUCATION AND DECENCY, YOU ALWAYS USE VULGAR ADN INDECENT LANGUAGE.
Flush your dirty mind first and start your “pseudo” topic lecture
@ lofty.
Thanks for your reponse.
Out of the two options ,the 1st option is more desirable,i.e; ‘to pack-up his bags’; otherwise the person ‘obeying an unlawful command,’ becomes a party with the person, who passes that ‘unlawful command.’
ONLY simple condemnation of those obeying such unlawful commands, is not enough; but ONLY SEVERE DISCIPLINARY ACTION, is the suggested solution. Please allow me to put it, that my contention is a contention, whether basic or not.BUT if you (BASICALLY) AGREE with it; THEN,THAT IS IT, WHAT MATTERS.
I am glad,that NOW, YOU DO seem to be CONVINCED & BELIEVE that ‘A WRONG’ was committed by those generals. If so, then why not hang them by the nearest pole? I would repeatedly agree with you that it is not appropriate to malign our own istitutions. But who has done so?
Saying that if Ashfaq Kiyani had resigned as a consquence, THEN somebody else would have picked the flag, also does not seem a correct arguement. SOB Mush, is definitely, the REAL CULPRIT. But, WILL YOU AGREE OR DENY, that the other ‘JURNAILS’ who carried-out Mush’s criminal orders, to kill Sardar Bugti of Baluchistan, , women & girls of Jamia Hafsa, in Islamabad, & hundreds upon thousands of civilians & soldiers alike;THEN were’nt those’JURNAILS’ NOT CRIMINALS?
When the victorious Allied Forces of the 2nd World War, ( outsiders) could HANG, the GERMAN WAR CRIMINALS, then why cannot our Pakistanis HANG our own ‘FAUJI-JURNAIL CRIMINALS, including Mush? Then, what’s stopping them?
@tharapolitics
….
You don’t need lessons they won’t work for you , you need to go back to the same mullah who you used to teach you in your childhood , that mullah will teach you liberal fascism, that is the only “language” you will understand
and now shut the fvck up ….
@ lofty.
That reminds me of an old saying, as follows ; -
A teller of ONE LIE, is called a LIAR; while the teller of MANY LIES, is called a LAWYER.
A killer of one man is called a murderer; while the KILLER of MANY MEN, is called a GENERAL !
@ SnrCtzn
I agree with you. Musharraf and his associates should be trialed and hanged for their criminal acts. Musharraf on the contrary is lecturing around the world and enjoying the protocol. It is a shame!
@admin
plz control the language of few commentators,especiallyMr.ADnan manSOORi.
“Proud Commando”, yup , please check this out before praising too much. My question still stands, why he gave info to British journalist not any Pakistani? Proud Pakistani Commando was unable to find a single trustworthy Pakistani to share his secrets. Was he really a MI6 or someone else spy?
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=19033
“The most astonishing aspect of the episode is that the scrutiny of Omar Sheikh’s mobile phone records proved he had been even calling Maj-Gen (retd) Amir Faisal Alavi, the former General Officer Commanding (GOC) of the elite Special Services Group (SSG) of the Pakistan Army. He was shot dead in Islamabad on Nov 19, 2008 by unidentified gunmen.”
@Maryumm
Thank you for reminding me of my previous sin.its not Munafqat.if you check the same page,you can see my sorry statement.
simply at that time,i write few comments about Dr.shahid and his mentor Gen.gul.but later i understand its wasting of words.i again sorry for my previous comments if it hurts anyone at this forum,even i still stand at my words.
todays amir mir story open a new debate on the secret relation between Mr.alvi and master mind of daniel pearl murder sheikh umar.is it an attempt to make the matter more complexed?
How much more complex will it get, usually everyone loses hope of finding any answers at ‘unknown gunmen,’ but somehow more and more things about Mr. alvi are surfacing. Who is pulling these strings that Pakistan is finally using their CSI (crime scene investigation) rather than washing the blood off the street the second they get a chance.
But it does make a little bit of sense by Mushi had to run and touch the British jootay. Shayad usko kasaai ki churri nazar no nahi aagayi? (sorry for my bad punjabi/urdu attempt at typing)
Amir Mir story supports my conviction that General Alvi was somehow a good person. I don’t know why I had this conviction but somehow yesterday when his daughters came here defending their father I immediately realised something is right about this person (Alvi) , those who know me would know it is hard for me to say a good word about a Pak Army officer.
Amir Mir story again seems to be fed by ISI , General Alvi must knew something determintal against the military junta. I by the way don’t understand the current concerns of the army. But I know that if US (in the context of both Afghanistan and Mumbai attacks) decides to take the final action , the information given by General Alvi will become very important and lethal against the sitting generals…. I wish I could guess those two generals names…
I personally pray for the safety of Alvi’s family , specially if they know the names of these officers.
@ lofty.
I am happy, that at least I have been able to convince you that mush & his other’Jurnails’ are to blame. The biggest shame is that after so much turmoil under their ‘yoke’ nobody has even, simply, questioned them, about their unlicensed ‘killing spree’ of Pakistani civilians & soldiers alike, & calling it a ‘colletaral damage’!
@Pejamistari
Dont talk about things without facts….or logic…its wastege of time for u and for us as well
By the way why dont they publicaly tell about those 2 Gens, they have already lost alot, are they still not brave to tell the truth???? Why are they hidding details from public???? If they will tell everything they will not be insecure but if they will not tell anything they will face threats all the time.
@patriotic pakistani
… Hey come on at least “they” have the courage to come on net to defend their father… Do you have that courage … have you ever seen a son of a general (let alone the daughters) defending their fathers …. even that ba**** Ijaz-ul-Haq looks both ways before taking own fathers name … 
… you know why because I have never seen a son/daugher of a general (btw I know quite a few of them ) who would like to defend their fathers … reason they know how corrupt their fathers are …
Hey your father seems to be one of the general isn’t it … and you can talk with the facts hahaha….
Let me through challenge there may be several son/daughters of serving generals who might be visiting pkpolitics , I can challenge no one would have the courage to come here and say their fathers are clean/honest….
BTW you ISI guys should be more innovative in selecting the nicks ..”patriotic pakistani” sounds too traditional
… take a cue from some other colleagues .. haha…
Yeah but, Bilal Busharraf devotedly defends his father. And I have no reason to believe that he is playin a game. guess he is convinced that Busharraf was a visionary, a savoir and an absolute indispensable national hero to an ungrateful nation sabotaged by traitors and vested interest. Ironically Busharraf was as Bilal Busharra would argue Pakistan’s Ataturk. So *ahem ahem*..consistency begs….
But then again, arn’t we all guillty until proven innocent? After all That is the modus operandi of a campy, proxy regime where political discourse resembles at best a spectacle of full contact hacky sack?
For if not, then we don’t go on a relatives word alone.
@VOX
… but you know I can assure you Bilal Musharraf would never have the courage to come over the internet or any public forum and with wide open teeth he won’t ever defend declare his father “Ata turk” 
…. If you know him just try your luck and ask him to defend his father anywhere on the net (may be ahmedquraishi.com 
)
haha …. you know I happened to see him when I was in Bay area , it is interesting that he never decided to come on internet to defend his father even during the extremely difficult days for mad dictator when he was requesting everybody to go and defend him in United States, he even sent the joker Naseem Ashraf to defend himself.
Bilal Musharraf did try to defend his father in private mails to some of his old friends specially that singer
As for Ata-turk is concerned , have you heard lately Ijaz-ul-Haq calling his father Mard-e-momin
…. He did try once during the first year of his father’s death but he would blush when saying this even then 
….
@peja: I guess like father like son!
Cowards.
But then again, we don’t have Benazir’s daughters or that emo freak bilawal (striking resemblance in name to the mad dictator’s son) defending him on internet forums either do we? God forbid they show up….online revenues would TANK. And we are in a global recession already.
OR for that matter ijaz ul haq, or Salman Taseer’s sons. Not openly as far as I know.
But Musharraf did profes his “visions” much in accordance with that “other ” fascist Ataturk din he? I’m sure the son would prolly concur. Like father like…
Speaking of Zia, the other fascist in uniform, more people attended his funeral than any other in the muslim world save NAsir perhaps din dey? oh yesh they did. Take up the mard e momin issue wid dem.
I won’t. I think titles are a trite: much like qaide awam, qaide tehreek.
Besides I don’t think i’ll see Ijaz ever blush. Has Zardari ever?
The only one I know was Imran when asked to sit on Quad e Azam’s seat. Which ofcourse he blushingly refused to.
@VOX
The debate drifted because you picked up Bilal Musharraf as an example , of course he does not equate with the daughters of General Alvi, my intention in the challenge was basically to get the sons/daughters of serving generals out and to defend them. There were two reasons I believe they never come out, one the families I know of are usually too far off from the public both literally and metaphorically and secondly I have seen that some of the children of military officers are ashamed of their parents specially the ones which have higher “liberalism” …
And for Ijaz I have seen him blushing several times, don’t forget to watch his program with Shahid Masood sometime back…….
BTW I don’t know how you are interpreting the words I am using like blushing , “ashamed of ” etc….. if you are thinking that they “blush” because they feel “ashamed of” their fathers then you are taking the wrong meanings
@VOX
That list is quite long. I don’t see any defenders for numerous other ZPP liars. PM himself is maybe tired of defending them.
@peja: didn’t know you were on a cruise control for you to feel a drift in any which way.
I think it is rather childish to see if there is a general or his litter or a politician or his litter or MOSAD and RAW or ofcourse the zeitgeist terror for every tin-foil organic cymbal the ISI itself and its litter is lurking around.
Prudence doesn’t fit this mode of wholistic thinking only whimsical musing. Take the anonymity provided over the internet for what it is. Individual trolls. Though I have a personal disdain for those who indulge in deliberate deception by taking tell tale names and handles… fake afridis and all.
But if shame is a trait by which we may guage the”honesty” and a “tendency to rectify ones faulty thiking”, then definitely most of our politicos fail that test. You may include some Generals too. Admin and many ppl here think that this general is one of em.
As regards their progeny, we are better off dealing with individuals be it these very politicos and generals or their litter for what other better guage of measuring shame than empirical verbage and actions?
Again, Bilal Busharraf and likewise the the rest of the litter and their fierce defence of their parents or relatives is expected and irrelevant. Or at best suspect testimony.
@VOX
with my 500 pages thesis for each sentence haha….
:
I am wondering which part of your 5 sentences remark I should answer
But let me say I loved this (emphasis is mine of course
I usually end the debate when someone starts equating politicians with generals
… I made an exception last time because you mentioned only Bilawal (if you had mentioned Hasan Nawaz or Mariam in your second last message I would have ended the debate there and then 
…. So that is the end of the debate…
On the other hand I must appericiate your talent of picking up to most “trivial” point and then derailing the whole debate … To me important is that ISI is after this guy
and you know why they are after him …
It is very rare that a ISI will be after an officer of the rank of major general even after his death… the story of Amir Mir is quite baffling … something is indeed cooking up
…………
@peja
I think you’re smart enoug o know that your 500 page thesis in answerin my meagre 5 sentence remarks would prolly incriminate yourself as one of the afore mentioned litter or a relative out creepin out from the woodworks to “swift boat” this website, or those that think this general was just a envious irritated douchebag. That’ll be a far cry from just condemning this act of murder for what it is regardless whether the general was a envious twit or some deeply moved whistle blower. The 500 page thesis that is.
Hopefully it’ll show you the childishness of it all.
But you did make a comment, making an exception for this general based on someone allegedly claiming to be his daughter. And I just asked you to be consistent.
And it does not matter whether one is a military person or a politician. Politicians don’t walk on water, they have no Halo and yes again we are better of dealing with individuals not the rank or the organization they belong to. That would always be a mistake.
This does not equivocate military rule over civilian rule or vice versa in an way for that is a matter of natinal discouse and philosophy on how a nation should be governed.
FOr the true virtue of democracy (a sustainable democracy like the US, Britian or even rogue Bharat not in this proxy pupet regime) is none greater than it is easier to get rid of a civilian than a military dictator. That was true of Musharraf as well. The momment he took off his uniform, he was neutered. An immoral govt. doesn’t become moral because of the kind of rulership it has. That is a different debate than one where one may argue which is a more moral “system”. And sadly, that system is unsustainable. It is the same system as one musharraf took off his uniform.
And your opinion is that he ws killed of by ISI. Possibly. I say the murderers should be brought to wrote. It is quite another matter that this general himself was accused of “conduct unbecoming.” And thus he has been marked as a person of interest.
And an alleged daughter’s testimony in that is suspect and not convincing at all by itself. That was the main cogent point.
You could’ve ended the debate simply by saying “ya perhaps that’s true.”
..unsustainable in Pakistan. Because It is the same system as one musharraf took off his uniform…a vaudeville.
@VOX
I am not smart enough to understand how I incriminate myself , in fact I am not even smart enough to understand the meaning of the following sentence.
….. Do I smell Adnan Mansoori here ???
@peja:
Well that was gay.
Unfortunately I think all you smell are the burning remnants of pelos you might have managed to hoard on your scalp. Singe much? lol
And yes I’ll take your word for it: you’re not smart enough. But you’re right, I can see how my typos and syntax can confuse a person “not smart enough” . Here, read on. Lemme know if this too may cause any further cognitive impairment.
Mr @Vox
I am not claiming to be my fathers daughter , i am his daughter . YOu obviously have never met my father or you would have never doubted my identity. I do not lie i do not need to lie. I am faisal alavis daughter . I Would prefer all of you to stop referring to my father as a general .My father always said he was a soldier and that is what he was and will always remain.Ranks are worldly medals bestowed on soldiers they donot make people more or less favourable.
Secondly, i said before above in this forum COntrol your language dont dare refer to my father as twit or douche bag .YOU have shown me just your upbringing for if you had been a gentlemen even if you hated someone you wont have used these words . Ignorance is a bliss . Only weak people can stoop to abusing the dead but then again we are the same muslims who brought the grandchildren of the PROPhet (M.P.B .U .H) onto the streets on behest of a ruler so what are we just common people. IF the Muslim ummah didnot spare them how would they spare insignicant us .
I said before and i say again i awit perfect justice but dont take my silence for weakness i wont let anyone malign my fathers name ever
Well my apologies to you Ms. manidr. May your father find peace and bliss in the hereafter and his murderers caught.
My reference to your father as douchebag or twit was just a hackneyed attempt at similitude to what the angry suspicious public out here has been perceiving his person as; and not any personal use of adjectives for General Faisal Alavi.
I would never be able to imagine what you might be going through. God bless.
I dont know who killed my father but i do know one thing they killed him unarmed, they killed him unaware, because they were cowards .
We have lost our father our life yet people here think its fine to comment on a persons integrity ,his character his loyalty just because he is not there to defend himself .
If my father was all what you claim he was our home wont still remain flooded by grievers, the army grave yard wont have been small for the funeral , he didnot have people from hollywood at his funeral he had jawans who came from all across the country to bid him farewell .MY tears stopped when i saw the tears falling out of his soldiers eyes , my pain lessened when i saw the love people had for him . THe hell i felt became bearable when i saw i wasnt the only one to mourn him . Such was my father .He doesnt need the rank of a general to define him he has the love of his soldiers
MY father is my pride , i wont let any one destroy or malign it
When you dont know someone dont take attempts at their honour
I think I must emphasize again that I didn’t pass any value judgments on your father. And I held my judgment on him precisely because I do not know the truth a priori. Those who murdered him were cowards indeed. And I do not doubt your father had many admirers and those who grieved his loss and came to pay homage to him.
My condolences.
@VOX
As I mentioned earlier your English is quite “impressive” , I just got rid of one such impressive “written” language…. however on the “logical” note , I believe you should give an audition for peace tv , the dogtar Naik there is looking for “logical persons” like you over there.
On the serious note though as I said you have (intentionally?) drifted the discussion to something very trivial… let me quote my original remarks again with some emphasis on important points.
@peja:
Since the musings continue I must say that for a person who takes someone’s written text so seriously you suddenly seem to have lost your critical though slightly tipsy eye for typos and poorly constructed prose. You remind me of my freshman composition professor. He annoyed the fuck out of me. Good times.
Now my intention is not to embarrass you, but I feel that this would serve as a valuable lesson for all of us looking for Stentorian Shakespearean prose from contributors here. Time is never enough, and though self improvement is a virtue in all spheres including one’s diction and composition, I am just glad we have Pakistanis here contributing and being bold enough to write. I won’t pick on typos unless I really want to stifle a debate or discussion by being as asshole. So please do try to ignore minor mistakes and typos for I too am always constrained for time and patience. Besides according to Cognitive Restoration of Reversed Speech,
The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe. ceehiro.
Warped syntax, run on and fragmented sentence. Not to mention a total assassination of context with juvenile use of parataxis. Don’t worry I got your message.
Above is your “corrected” and “emphasized” version. Hmm High falutin’ stuff peja.
Anyways, I did re-read your post about Amir Mir.
Arn’t you havin’ fun with this back and forth lol. Wait that sounded vulgar…
The coordinated attacks on Alvi, and the ISI plants here wasting time on harrassing his alleged daughters do indicate a coordinated campaign to intimidate the late jurnails family and to defame him through these tactics.
I wonder what all the ISI people will do when Pakistan is no more thanks to their handywork?
Maybe what the SS and Gushtapo officers did. Go and live in Argentina. Knowing full well that the ex-Pakistanis will never have the balls to send death squads after them … (unlike the Israeli’s who avenged their dead )
@manidr: if you really are his daughter, my advice to you would be to not engage in discussion and reveal information that might jeopardize your safety.
This place is crawling with ISI plants, and you should take note. Some people were trying to rile you up and tried to get information out that still is not disclosed in the letter etc.
Rest is up to you.
Please accept my sincere condolences for the loss of your father.
I was quite moved by your letter published in ‘The News’, right after the untimely death of your father. Your loss is personal and greater than any one here can imagine. I am quite impressed with the fact that you have taken your father’s advice quite sincerely: “ don’t be afraid you are Faisal Alvi’s daughter ”. I believe these were his words if my memory serves me well.
My prayers are with you and all of your family.
“Inna Lilah-e-WaInaa Aleahay Rajeon”
@Mandir,
U r a brave daughter of a very brave man. I salute your dad for his courage and professionalism. Mr. Alvi was killed many many months ago in cowardly manner. The story was burried by our ‘gr8′ media. Now that the story is out in international media, Paki media is all out on character assasination of this very brave and honest general.
They could not bring any proof against him except crap like:
a) he is Hindu beuause his sister got married to Mr. Naipaul.
b) he had duel citizenship?
This is limit of these hate filled Ziaists.
Many themselves live in US, canad or Europe and have duel nationality. Are all overseas Pkistanies traitors?
If marriage of a relative to a non-Muslim is sufficient proof to be a traitor then the biggest traitor is Quaid Azam who himself and his daughter married a non-Muslim.
Pakistan has been destroyed by Ziaists and extremists in ISI and rogue army.
Ms. Mandir please accept my condolences and I hope U will leave this country ASAP and continue to expose murderers.
So where are we heading ?
Army officers are killed by own army officers.
Locals are slaughtered and later hanged by locals.
Politicians celebrate when politician/ordinary worker of a different political party is either killed or attacked at (JI celebrate celebrates when a worker of ANP is killed)
Are we at some stage of a civil war ?
i was sure that amir mir story will turn the discussion.people will realize later,that how our stupid journalists are playing in the hands of army and their agencies.”Just For The Headlines”.
@TK says
@BJMadari adds:
@FahadAfridi chips in:
Talk about paranoia. Your (lack of) arguments only shows you have no legs to stand on. Funny you accuse others of being “fundoos” and “beardos”. You are just ranting like lunatics.
@VOX
Go ahead and fire away BJ and TK. Let’s see if you can rise above name-calling and wild accusations (though I seriously doubt it
)
@nota: I think in your rage against the term “beardo” (which is only a description of the state of mind of the lazy fanatics who think they took a tender out on representing Islam) you mis-attributed my quote to Peja not that the conglomeration would make any sense even if the correction was made.
Then you go off and lump us with some other dude (nice culling work btw) and somehow we’re all supposed to be “in cahoots” ?? Or so seems the implication.
Name calling like umm.. I dunno… calling someone “BJ” “Madari” ?? By which I’m sure you didn’t mean to imply Bl0w J0b because that would be “indecent” and below “the high standards” you just set for us liberal fascists in only the same sentence!…
I find it ironic that more than one person kept calling Peja “BJ” (implying Blow Job, the sexual act of one person inserting their PENIS into the mouth of another person etc. etc. — A derisive, pejorative, abusive term) and NO-ONE… not a single “defender of the faith” bothered to call you or anyone else on it for months. Obviously you couldn’t be bothered with such piddly inconsistencies yourself, but none of those who would have a holy calf at the mention of an F word bothered to correct this rather vulgar (and patently UN-Islamic) usage either.
But one term like “beardo” and the daggers are drawn… How sensitive we are when the derision is pointed at us eh? Most are still oblivious to their own transgressions though. So they ask for “rising above name calling” as they address their fellows with terms like “BJ”.
What makes it worth commenting on is not merely that it was abusive, pejorative or derisive. But the fact that it was coming from those who would claim to raise the banner of Islam to the exclusion (and extinction even?) of most of their ‘deviant’ compatriots, in these here parts of the internets.
And I’m not just singling out fence-sitters like you @nota, who would like to enjoy the guilty pleasures of saying “FUCK” every once in a while while still keeping the Jihadi Rage stoked in the depths of their psyches.
@Admin,
I believe you need to right some of the injustice that was meted out to the Daughter’s of deceased at this board. I guess you can republish his Daughter’s letter in their father’s memory.
I don’t believe you are responsible for this in any way but I guess it will give Alvi Daughter’s a chance to present their father in a different light.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=148162
@TK
That was quick
It is interesting (and I am not surprised) you giving more weight to the term “BJ” than your choice words:
(This is a sample just from the last couple of days. High standards, indeed!
What I find hilarious is your lecturing people in between:
Wow!
Let’s see what “BJ” has to offer
BTW, interesting all these accusations against ISI and “ISI agents” like me. Let’s suppose “ISI did it”. But then, according to our honorable Defense Minister, “ISI is under complete control of civilian government“.
So is it OK then to hold PPP responsible for the General’s murder?
@GoTK
BJ = Bl0w J0b
hahahaha……….. I can not stop laughing….
but I wish could .. let me instead tell you a joke….
…. BTW it is public forum I just can not write
@TK & @BJ
I am really curious to see what choice names/labels you come up with for Dr. Ayesha Siddiqa
Murder She Wrote
By Ayesha Siddiqa
THESE days a common concern of many ordinary Pakistanis pertains to the conspiracy to destroy the country. But what happens when the country’s own institutions are involved in spinning a cobweb or falling into a trap that can cause ultimate damage to the state is a question worth asking. This line of questioning stems from a story recently published in Britain’s Sunday Times on Dec 14 and reported by Dawn the following day.
The story titled ‘UK may help find Pakistani general’s killers’ written by Carey Schofield is about the mysterious death of former Special Services Group Maj-Gen Amir Faisal Alavi. The article claims that Gen Alavi was not killed by militants in November 2008 as claimed initially but that those responsible may have been some of his senior colleagues about whom he had complained to army chief Gen Kayani with regard to their alleged involvement in evil and corrupt transactions with the Taliban. These officers, whose names were blacked out by the writer herself before publication, had apparently been a cause of Gen Alavi’s removal from service two years ago while he was serving in Wana, Waziristan.
The military publicity machine, of course, went into action soon after. It made counterclaims that the general in question had been removed due to his involvement with a woman in Islamabad. Considering former Gen Pervez Musharraf’s reputation as a cultural liberal (not to be confused with political liberal), he was hardly the person to have questioned or punished his officers for such a crime. Or perhaps there were too many people involved in the affair.
Undoubtedly the Schofield story raises questions about the military’s reputation as a professional and cohesive force. What it says between the lines is that rather than a cohesive force it may be divided between those officers who compromise on the national interest by doing questionable deals with the Taliban who then target army personnel and others who choose to confide in foreign journalists and governments about internal wrongdoings. According to the story, Gen Alavi had not only foretold his own death to the journalist after he dispatched the letter to the army chief, but had also complained to the British military in August 2005 (during his visit to the headquarters of the special forces or the SAS) about the lack of the army’s will to fight terrorism.
A closer look shows that the story paints the highest command of the service in a bad light. Were there moles in the army chief’s secretariat who leaked the contents of his letter to those that Alavi accused of being involved in his removal from service? Of course, the other question that comes to mind is that knowing his organisation and the fact that the letter would be opened as a routine before it reached the chief, why did Alavi choose to send it ‘through the proper channel’ rather than secure a private meeting with the top boss?
However, a question that the official-sponsored rebuttal did not ask was about the access provided to the British journalist to write a book on the Pakistan Army. It was in the process of doing so that she came into contact with Alavi and many other generals including Pervez Musharraf. The real and untold story is that of the disappointment felt by the army’s top brass at being accused of killing one of their own. Sources claim that she had direct access to Musharraf and many other generals.
Carey Schofield, whose main expertise is the Soviet military and not South Asia, was introduced a few years ago to the GHQ by one of the army’s favourite writers via one of Musharraf’s most favoured diplomats. The idea was probably to have a foreigner, not popularly known in the world of academia, write a book on the army so that it could sell against all other literature being produced by Pakistani writers generally considered to be unfriendly by the GHQ. She had more access than what an ordinary writer could dream of. Her introduction on the Oxford University Leverhulme Project describes her as writing a book in collaboration with the GHQ in Rawalpindi. We don’t know if she was also given access to classified material but that is hardly the issue.
Our military and civil bureaucrats and politicians say a lot of things during informal discussions. The tendency to tell the real story while boasting about their performance gives away many a secret. It is also worth asking whether anyone bothered to check on her background before providing access.
I remember the British author from my book launch at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, London, last year. Schofield questioned me on the use of a particular term in my book, Military Inc, with the objective of embarrassing me. Later, a colonel boasted about how the question was passed on to her.
The point I am trying to make here is that it has often been the army’s strategy to support sponsored research in order to create army-friendly literature through luring foreign academics and journalists with free trips, hospitality and access to the institution and its secrets. This approach was used at least on three earlier occasions.
Very briefly, the first book published in 1979 by an unknown publisher never made it beyond a few libraries. The second book the research for which was sponsored by Gen Ziaul Haq was banned. The third one has made the rounds but the author has no academic standing. Finally, an unknown British publisher will publish the latest book by Schofield. What is a matter of greater concern, however, is that at this point the GHQ might not even be sure of the contents of the book for which tremendous cooperation was given to the author.
While Carey Schofield seems to have burnt some if not all of her bridges with the Pakistan Army by publishing the story in the Sunday Times, a question that the generals must ponder over pertains to what else might have landed on the table of the British intelligence other than the Alavi story. This time the facts may be irrefutable because the army itself volunteered them.
Waiting curiously. Show this woman what you are made of! Don’t let all that “education” go to waste.
@BJ
“hahahaha”
That is it? Brilliant!
Let me just quote @VOX:
@vox, tk, peja, nota
personally i think..all four of you favor a progressive liberal democratic pakistan. where i support Peja and tk when then assault the faujistanishment, i will also support nota and vox when they defend the army of pakistan, and as i understand NOT faujistanishment.
correct me if i am wrong…
@Kafka8
Everybody is entitled to have their opinion(s). The problem is the hypocrisy from certain quarters. On one side there is full support of the “democratic” government with numerous undemocratic leaders. A President with all the powers of Moshe and a bunch of unelected and ant-Pakistan elements like Rehman Malik, Haqqani and others. Some of them clearly are anti-Pakistan while others are just incompetent like Mukhtar Ahmed etc.
Here lays the problem with one of the guys you hold in high esteem. He vigorously defends Piplya-actions
(and passiveness). In other words his dishonesty is that he defends people, who work hand in glove with Moshe policies on
all most all issues. On the other hand pretends to be “harsh” against the military dictators…..weird?? Where is the logic?
@nota: I don’t want to get in the middle of the personal feud going on between yourself and @peja, (which is counterproductive IMO, but whatever) suffice it to say that I was merely pointing out the inconsistencies
Not merely in your posts addressing him as such, but also in the duplicitous way in which the “beardos” on this site turn a willing blind eye to your ‘infractions’. One of the glaring examples is calling someone a Sexual act to their face, while ‘beardos’ complain to the admain that someone else used the word “fvck” again in a sentence.
By quoting my ‘outburst’ you only re-inforced my point that the difference between yourself and I is only that of degrees, not of substance, and of “quantity” shall we say? As far as the use of foul language is concerned. I don’t have a problem with it, by all means. I do have a problem with the selective filters being used by some
So, I was merely pointing out the double standards of the “beardos” who call me out, but turn a blind eye from you thinking you’re “a brother in arms” so to speak
and I picked you because you are one of the most prominent members who contributes a lot, and it is kind of hard to miss your posts, so they can’t feign/plead ignorance you see?
@GoTK
…
I was expecting after explaining the meaning of BJ he would at least stop using it , however perhaps he had better meaning in his mind
BTW there is no personal feud , only thing is that I have never addressed him directly.
@nota: I happen to like Dr. Ayesha Siddiqua. I’m not sure what kind of response you were expecting, but pray tell:
Do you have a analysis/comment of your own on her article?
I do appreciate the posting/pasting? of the article.
@Gokt:
The problem with your use of the term beardo is not that I see it as an attack on the religious clergy, but because our hyppocritical us of it with fallacious generalization and inconsistency:bigotry.
Ironically it was none other than me who coined and used this term for the first time on this website. Too bad there is no patent on rescinding creative but apocalyptic verbiage. Oh what tangle web we…
So this bigotry plus your swift boating anyone and everyone with such a label is just very very childish antic. No different than your and others’ rants about jews, or still others who rant on about “muzzies”. You may add your
People like you have rendered this word useless. It has become this strange nonsense connotation of overlapping riffs. Such kind of black balling not only does not make sense, it causes any fair mind on the other side of the Abbey road to make a parallel || burrows with his/her eye brows.
Now sometimes we cannnot make do without generalizations in which case people may talk about religious extremists or “liberal” fascists. Even in that scenario your deviant use of the word beardo (I say deviant because that is not how intended to use it in the firs place) is bizarre for then even those individuals who have nothing to do with religious extremism or fashionable religious chastity are lumped along with those against whom you are permanently bigoted.
The truth is that going by your “beardo” definition many of the country’s socio-political elite will be beardos.
ah yes. They all fit this description for they all use Islam when convenient regardless of how individually live or how behave. Musharraf’s hired mullahs anyone? Siratulmustaqem? Suleh Hudaibya? lol. Yeah and the followers of that stupid charlatan from Qadiyan are no exception to this rule. And you yourself are right up there with the rest of the pontificating bandy in at times the most vile, sappy way imaginable.
And this gem from you
…is a superb example of the strange befuddled outburst. Who do you mean the beardos are here? The one which fits this mold are very much the bootlickers which comprise the government of pakistan. Your bogeyman beardo is flickin you off right up your dark alley. And i is none other than you, and your mindset.
@pejamistri:
Very good story about me. I never knew that i am a gerneral’s son. Thanks for telling me. Dont make assumptions and write long stories on it. Dont point fingers on other without logic or facts. When u point 1 finger on other u r infact pointing 4 finger to urself. Thanks for commenting on my nick at least its better than yours i can bet. And thanks for calling me an ISI guy, if you have read all of my posts then u might know that i am also talking against ISI in case of missing people but you just speak without gathering the facts that is the only problem with our nation (i dont know u are from my nation or some Indian). I clearly says that ISI should not remove people on CIA demands and i also loudly says to all Indian and International agents that ISI is our force and power and thats why u are afraid of it and thats why you are going against ISI. We will never give our ISI under any civilian control like 10% control and it will always defend Pakistan. I will like to say the people who are from ISI on this forum that please do something to release missing people.
@kafka:
Ofocurse I (nor do I believe nota) is making any attempt to make any case for the military. That’s not the issue here. The issue was to use ones brain a little bit more. You know take a little break for unsolicited invectives.
And no sir I am not a “progressive”. Simply because flux is inevitable and those who espouse active intervention and big government and socialist revolutions play the role of devil’s deacon. A character found buckloads in 3rd world’s decaying cesspool of “elites” of which Pakistan is the prime roast example.
I am a liberal, not in the American sense of the word, for here in the land of gorged leadenly obvious abundance, “liberal” has become an anathema. You know pinkoliberal, kool-aid liberal, pinko commie….
I am a liberal in the classical sense of the word. In the American discourse hence I’ll be a conservative.
So the term Liberal fascist is a misnomer. Leftist fascist does more justice tot he abstract pejorative.
@Pejamistri
Please dont use bad language….u are talking about BJ on such a serious political forum. You should think before you talk. There are many kind of people who visit this forum and mostly are from very well educated families. Do you want that your sister will visit this forum some time and read your comment??
This is not only for pejamistri but also for others who use bad language. I cannot understand why these people are allowed to use this bad language. You can convey your point of view using some good language as well. I am not criticizing your point of view here but your language. But i strongly disagree with your point of view also at some places.
Admin pleaase warn them its a public forum, and everybody should speak sensibly without using language they have inherited.
@patriotic pakistani
…. 
haha…
Someone has been using this term for me since long
Thanks GoTK for defining the term at least some of the hypocrites have come out … I hope that these hypocrites will come out with some new term
…
Talking about hypocricy. There is a Punjabi saying:
“ChaneneN lote nouN kaNde ay ke teri wich chaik ay”
@pejamistri
My responsibility was just to show you where you are wrong. I dont want to waste my time arguing with you. If you are a sensible person you will understand what i am saying otherwise nobody cares. There is a hadith from Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) which means that we should just say Assalamo alaikum to those people who dont understand or dont want to understand the truth or fact or reality. So i will say Assalamo alikum to u too. I wish you will understand what i am trying to say.
@patriotic pakistani
… but you won’t understand that…
again I may be wrong as I never consider myself right 
….
You were showing me I am wrong , I already know I am wrong , that is why I am looking for the right
BTW saying Salam is not a hadith but it is in Quran
Let me tell you …
تر دامنی پر شیخ ھماری نہ جا یئو
دامن نچوڑ دیں تو فرشتے وضو کریں
@VXO: I find it really odd that the two people who would be considered farthest from the pejorative ‘beardo’ (allegedly ‘coined’ by none other than yourself!) are the ones acting like the most aggrieved parties here.
Meanwhile, the real beardo’s are merrily plodding along oblivious to the battles being waged on their behalf, and that is my major beef against the beardo’s: Their despicable and infuriating blissful ignorance. Something which neither of you two gentlemen can be accused of.
Regardless of who defined the term, in its popular usage, it doesn’t define either Yourself or Nota, but I seemed to have managed to step on both your tails at the same time.
My apologies.
Also, the “strange befuddled gem” that you “quote” is actually from @nota supposedly “quoting” me. Seems like he didn’t bother to notify readers — through punctuation/quotation norms, a helpful note, or even annoying ellipses for that matter — that it is from multiple posts.
Quite possibly because his intended audience was probably the beardos. Who don’t bother with such unimportant details. In any case, I do reserve the right to use profanity as ‘a device’ to sneak a point across (FWIW).
I choose quick n dirty over ‘long and boring’ … just a matter of personal choice.. and let us not forget the audience.
Also, I find the charge of ‘bigotry’ rather amusing. Reminds me of the “anti democracy Mujahideen-e-Islam” (present company excluded of course) who have this tendency to become overnight constitutional experts no sooner than the shoe is on the other foot .
Again, congratulations on the coinage, it is really a wonder that no-one thought of it sooner, given the fact that all the ingredients, namely, Beards, The English Language and Islamic Nutjobs have existed for quite some time now!
guys check this :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/this_week/7693751.stm
@pejamistri
I might be wrong about hadith or Quranic verse but i think my point is clear to u.
Gen Alvi was a hero, who served Pak army and Pakistanis for his entire life. HATS OF to Uncle Alvi.
My father’s killers have been caught . It has been a long wait waiting for the truth . The whole web of intrigue and conspiracy woven by Miss Carey Schofield was all fake . I spend the last 2 months trying to get to the truth . I ocntacted Miss Carey Schofield demanding a copy of the letter she first agreed then refused .I tried to question her if anyone was there while my dad gave her the alleged famous letter she named a person but when i contacted him he denied any letter being given to her .
Unfortunately , like me a lot of people did believe the letter and the conspiracy . I think the public should know the truth . Miss Carey has an upcoming book on military army being published soon and and she took advantage of my father’s killing to publicize her name .
Gen Alvi murder case suspects remanded
By Imran Asghar
March 08, 2009
RAWALPINDI: Anti Terrorism Court (ATC) No II on Saturday granted Koral Police two-day physical remand of three suspects for their alleged involvement in Maj Gen (r) Ameer Faisal Alvi of Special Services Group (SSG) and his driver murder case.
The suspects Maj (r) Haroon Ashiq, son of Raja Ashiq Ali of Azad Kashmir, Muhammad Nawaz Khan son of Amanullah Khan of Peshawar and Ishfaq Ahmed son of Wali of Okara were presented before the court under tight security.
Koral Police Station House Officer Arshad Ali informed the court that the suspects were on physical remand and during interrogation in I-9 police custody they revealed their involvement in murder case of Maj Gen (r) Alvi and his driver.
He said the police had to arrest their accomplices and recover the murder weapons.