Please share your views on the energy crisis in Pakistan. Please discuss who do you believe is responsible for the crisis, what should be the solution and if you are satisfied with the performance of government in solving the crisis.
the only thing which Pakistan has almost free of cost was GAS which was mainly used for domestic, industrial and to produce electricity.
Few Years ago some champion thought to run the petrol car {which are only used by Middle class to upper class} on this Gas {CNG}. and then we saw a boom in CNG stations in every corner of the country.
now thanks to this consumtion of Gas as CNG by Petrol Vehicles GAS in Pakistan is F**cked up.
Please notes CNG is only used by the Rich or Middle class {5-7% of the people of Pakistan} who owns a car.
so less gas means
1-more load shedding of gas for domestic gas
2-Less supply of gas to produce electricity
3-Less supply for industrial purpose
4-Increase consumption of gas in winter {which is a peak season for gas consumption}
now Gas is something which cannot be important with out a pipeline.
so my friend Have fun and curse the CNG users for all this mess.
come on people start blaming Zardari for energy crises as well.
nobody could deny the fact that It was Banazir’s Govt who brought investment in energy sector and since 1996 when her last Govt was toppled not a single new unit has been produced.
Now PPP’s new Govt will some how or other bring fresh investment not only in energy but in right areas like agriculture, education and health and then stupid people will start labeling charges of corruption on them.
where has 12 billion of direct support from USA gone?
Why we are so afraid of questioning Military generals? i am sure every body will like to see Musharaf behind the bars or hanged BUT that was not Musharaf alone but the whole group including generals in uniform who are responsible for not only energy crises but the darkness around us.
The entire nation as a whole is against building new dams. This is what happens when you don’t build new dams for water/electricity. Enjoy the darkness, everyone.
yes when Mushi forced everyone for DAMS then stupid mqm ppl came & they supported this sindh….& these jiyalas of sindh also supported altaf kutta & then mushi took back the plan of Kala Bagh dam….Mushi did wanted something good for Pakistanis…but these jerks of mqm……ahhh I hate them..
We — the Pakistani Nation, the ill-educated, easily-misled, spineless, weak-willed FOOLS that we are — are responsible.
The public isn’t educated enough to make the right choices.
The “ruling class” (the glove that hides the iron-fist of the stay-behind network – the real rulers) is too craven and greedy to want to change this situation.
This combination of clue-less masses and wicked leadership are responsible for this crisis and others.
Determining “how exactly” is just logistics and forensics.
Cure? Universal, Compulsory Education till Middle school with a revamped curriculum. (Sorry! No Sexy, quick-n-dirty fixes for ya)
The latest outcome of these attitudes was the last 9 years of the disasterous and despicable Jurnaili-Raj brought to you courtesy of the KoThay-Tapni Army’s jawans of Triple-One Brigade, Vulturistic jurnails and their politician counterparts, the legal jadoo-gar’s, and the shamelessly clueless Pakistani people!
Satisfied with the Govt. Performance?
Hell No! They fvcked around with stupid stuff while real stuff went from bad to worse, be it the financial crises, water shortages, or the impending implosion of the power sector (not to mention the subsequent implosion of the bachi-khuchi industries that depend on power)
What can be done?
A GIGANTIC! and I mean GI-FVCKING-GANTIC … Did I say GIGANTIC? … yes a HUMOUNGOUSLY GIGANTIC DAAMMMMM must be built which is 5 billion miles high and 40 trillion miles wide!
Nothing less spectacular is sexy enough for this nation which can’t even fvcking grow tomatoes on its own anymore and has to import them from its arch enemey (and we’re expected to believe we will become a seesa pilai deewar …. umm hmmm…)
I think this nation is itself seesa-pilai because nothing else would explain our monumental collective stupidity .. .well nothing short of massive doses of lead directly to our feeble brains.
P.S. There is no point in wasting breath suggesting real-world solutions because they seem outlandish to people while I know there is at least 3 people who are shaking their heads in agreement after reading the “GINORMOUS DAMMM” proposal of mine (they may have quibbles with the billion-mile height, but other than that….)
Perhaps the comments so far are reflective of the reasons why such problems exist to-day.
Education about the use of energy is OK.
Education per se is good.
But it takes time to educate and before you can educate the kids- you have to educate the parents- and first you have to educate them about the fact that more children means more people and more people means fewer resources such as energy.
And who will educate these people- well the leaders do not wish for them to be educated since that will mean these leaders will not be elected- so it is in the interest of the leaders that most Pakistanis remain un educated.
So we are back to who will bell the cat scenario.
Now what to do about the energy situation as it is to-day-
1.Enforce the times the shops can remain open-i,e- during the day light hours and not late at night.
2. Eliminate the CNG subsidy( indirect) to the rich .
3. Ban the sale of air conditioners and generators for 3 years.
4. Build small dams for making water reservoirs and producing electricity.
5. Steal the Solar technology from the west and manufacture solar panels to produce solar electricity.
6.Steal the Wind turbine technology from the West and do the same as solar.
And finally get ready for a revolutions from the greedy, lazy and comfort loving people of Pakistan !
We are sitting on hundreds of billions of dollars (US not Zimbabwe) worth of solar heat and we are destitute!
It doesn’t take einstein to convert that energy. It is so abundant that even if we convert at really bad efficiencies, we’ll be ahead of the game.
think Crude steam engines, crude boilers, crude generators all made in ‘cottage workshops’ in bure-wala, jacob-abad, faisal-abad or any other abad in Pakistan.
Instead of one 50 horsepower electric tubewell, think 500 wind-powered crude water-pumps made out of pvc pipe, rope and wooden disks..
think generators run by horse/ox/camel power for a small village.
None of this has any “commission potential” … and it is dangerous because it empowers the sheeple … so it must not be pursued (and ridiculed to boot).
Heck, even the old steam locomotives could be used to run a few megawatts each worth of generators if solar is used to run the boilers (fully or partially heating the water).
The thing is, we’ve been taught to sit on our a$$es and WAIT for “the technology transfer” ….
Can’t even make steam engines in 21st century… How screwed up is that?
it jst govt responsible….i can,t understand dat money they beged frm IMF, where dat money is gone…in pockets of govt??? until unless people of pakistan wont standup against govt, it will continue 2 be like dat…so i including me request all pakistani in pakistan and all over the world to wake up noe and do smething and support IMRAN KHAN.donate him money as he need money 2 establish his pary all over pakistan.go to his website and see http://www.insaf.pk….ALLAH hamere haal pe reham kare aur hamin ALLH ki taraf dua ke taufeeq de…
Hydel power ……… flowing rivers provide enough head over a distance of mere few kilometers to allow you to place a turbine and start generating free electricity ……..
small dams in PUKHTOONKHWA(areas still in govt of pak control)NORTHERN AREAS and other places where its possible.
In PUKHTOONKHWA alone 45 thousand megawatt of hydro electricity could be produced.
Jurnails are requested to PRODUCE ELECTRITY instead of PRODUCING TALIBAN.
quick solutions are
1-coal
2-Thermal
3-win energy only on coastal area
4-domestic use of solar {to cut down domestic use}
5-CLOSE ALL CNG Stations and use that GAS to produce electricity or run industry. {let the F**King Car owners to run their car on Petrol}
Just goes to show that these things can be made our farmers themselves. But they don’t do it… WHY?
Heck every farmer seems to have a hand-pump in their court-yard.. why not hook that up to a wind-mills like that and collect water in a raised tank 24/7 ???
Its just tin and ball bearings and wooden paddles! why isn’t anyone in Paksitan doing it? it will free them from having to wait for their turn at the electric tubewell?
Why is all our ingenuity wasted on stealing from fellow pakistanis and not used for coming up with solutions that will help ourselves (and everyone else in the long run) ?
so then dnt they prove that will is Fake.
rather than Just Making the lame excuses.
now you will tell the PPP votes under the leadership of Zardari was also fake.
its very simple hire a writing expert in UK, US or any Developed country and asked him to check that will.
if you need a copy of the will i can email that to you.
otherwise if you cannot do this the shut your mouth.
I think what we the public can do is to conserve as much energy as we could.
No Gas heaters at home at all.{use fire if possible}
No electric/Gas Greaser
No Extra lights in the evening
Try to use Solar Panels as much as possible i heard they are available in Lahore and Karachi.
and give time to government so sort out this mess which will obviously take time.
@Awais: the point is that the farm based windmills don’t really need high-speed winds and they pump water every time there is a bit of wind.
And re: the link you posted, yeah, the thing is that our ‘educated class’ only knows how to say NO (I call them Negative Ninnies) … our working class on the other hand, fortunately doesn’t know that “OMG IT CANT BE DONE!!!” (a constant refrain of our middle/’educated’ classes)
You should visit ‘plains’ of punjab… it gets plenty wind.
Today wind speed in and around Lahore area in 3-4MPH.
I m in Scotland which is a home of windmills.
and average speed needed is about 15-20MPH minimum which gives you sustainable energy.
but any way this is a good productive idea.
*-other thing i was looking into recently was the Solar tube well. {fortunately i had a piece of land in Punjab’s most fertile area Vehari} and i am considering this.
*-other point is that Pakistani Farmers should use Vegetable oil {i.e BioFuel} to run their Diesel Generators and Tractors. which will help a great deal to our country to reduce the oil import bill.
i mean electric motorcycle is a great option to cut the Patrol cost for middle class and i am sure Pakistan will take less than a minute to build that in Pakistan, because it doesn’t need any thing special in it.
we all need to know and plan that Pakistanis future is not in Oil driven electricity or Hydroelectric electricity.
what we will need is to conserve and change to Wind, thermal, solar, and bio-electricity.
I am not a fan of Nuclear energy just because i dont think we are capable enough to safe guard it. and God forbid one day we will a disaster like Chernobyl.
already there are allegation that Pakistani authorities were dumping the nuclear waste next of DG Khan City.
one thing that annoys me is that…
how can this be possible that for the whole month, i.e.Ramazan, only on one person’s order there was no loadshedding…
think about it???
ii anyone has an answer to this…plzz mention it…
the only prob with electricity is that government is not paying debt to the companies which produce electricity.
during Ramadan they paid them a bit and loadsheddig was over.if the gov pays its debt 2day there will be no more loadshedding.
If alone kala bagh dam comes into being we don t need to worry about future loadshedding but Musharraf besharam was busy saving his “kursi” and now Mr 10 % is busy filling his own pockets and saving his “kursi” ,who cares about this nation !
Dear all,
We are just talking about one problem (i.e., Energy). There are many other problems facing this nation. If you try to solve one problem, other problems are emerged and then you try to solve that problem, In the mean time, the Govt is changed. So, we are just running in the same loop and hence not proceeded further. We need a multidisciplinary approach and try to tackle all problems in parallel. Of-course this needs stretegic and long term visionary approach. The obvious question is then “How should we move forward” as a nation so that we can think of some progress in our society.
Here are my suggestions
1: We first of all need to redefine and repolish our constitution. Since existing constitution has many abberations, biased and selective amendements. This should be done under the supervision of national committee based on University Chancellors, Chief justices of Supreme Court, Ex-Cheif justices of Supreme court of national repute, Supreme Court Bar members, and Other expert of different fields and one representative of each registered political party etc
2: We need a true national leadership in our country (Priority 1). A leadership which possess competence and reflect the aspiration of our nation.
3: In order to achieve above objectives, we need a continuiuty of general election under UNO obervation in our country. We can then only filter out many fake, ghost and incompetent politician.
4: Assuming above two objectives are inplace, we need to strengthen our Institutions. We should first start from our Judiciary.
5: We should then start a national compaign of developing nationalism within our society. This should be done through media, educational institutions and other walk of life. Ban all discussion on TV/Radio/Print media about contradictory issues such as linguistics, sect, Sindhis/Punjabi/Pushton/Baluchi cultural favioritism etc.
6: Define short and long term policies based on our enviornment
@nawaz
“We are just talking about one problem (i.e., Energy).”
Ah, but not that little a problem. It is more like a (combined) symptom of many others that you talk about. What you are talking about right now seems fantasy land. Eor example, take your point 1: New constitution. Can we afford this luxury right now? Second, you include “Chief justices of Supreme Court” among the people to work on it. Which ones? The very idea of PCO justices writing one is repulsive.
Then you say “We need a true national leadership in our country”. Right. And what are we going to do with the present one? Wait 5 years? In the mean time we do nothing about the crisis being discussed? No you say; you say first we need “a continuiuty of general elections.” Damn! That means we continue with the current energy crisis — say — for another 20 years?? But wait. You say we leave it for a bit longer. After 20 years or so whn we have achieved that continuity and found good leadership, then we should find good judges (how can you do the first without it???) Can we then start dealing with energy? No you say. Next you eant us to develop “nationalism”. What the hell are you smoking, dude?
@ali4asat
“the only prob with electricity is that government is not paying debt to the companies”
Exactly!
BTW, did you hear the accusation Senator Kamil Ali Agha made in yesterday’s Kal Tak?
He accused Zardari of forcing the independent power producers to shut down by demanding they open their books for all the years since PPP lost power so that he can collect his commission (remember Mr 10% was accused of bringing them in in return for commissions to be paid to him in return for which he allowed them to charge much higher rates than the prevailing ones at the time)
@Awais: way to bark up the wrong trees dude. You have a tendency to compare apples to oranges. The “sustainable energy” you’re talking about is for windmills that have 300 foot fan-blades and generate 50MW per unit.
I’m talking about 50 little windmills all low-tech….
And then you go and post a video to disprove your own point. how typical …;-)
BTW, the keyword in “Electric Motorcycle” is… you guessed it ELECTRIC! … yessirreebob.
The whole problem we’re discussing is how to get hold of the elusive megawatts we don’t seem to have. Can’t charge your ELECTRIC motorcycle (which they DO have in pakistan btw) if you don’t have ELECTRICITY.
Agree with your conservation points, but we need to go further than this. Only then can we attack and destroy israel and wipe it off the face of the earth.
@Nawaz: So you’re basically asking for another Military Dictatorship because all that you are proposing are essentially agenda-points on every new dictator’s recipe for ‘fixing’ (as in neutering) this nation.
[begin sheeda tulli]
1. Oh ji, Aa’een hi ghalat hai ji, is ko theek karna hai ji, bulao uss kutti-day-puttar jadoogar ko
2. Oh ji, leader hi theek naheeN haiN ji… disiplined, neat, tidy leedurr honaa chaiiay jiiiiiii!
3. Oh ji band karo in mulak-dushman sahafiyooN ko ji
4. oh ji asbiat pasandi band karo ji… ye kia balochi, sindhi lagai hui hai? gas do punjab ko, aur muTh rakho.
Lack of generation capacity is only part of the problem; the rest is due to non-payment of bills to the IPPs. People really need to be vigilent or Zardari might use this power crisis as an excuse to sign grossly expensive contracts with new IPPs. Remember the rip off of the 1990s?
For details, check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OcBUj-BeTM
“Agree with your conservation points, but we need to go further than this. Only then can we attack and destroy israel and wipe it off the face of the earth.”
He..he.he
Now Awais will return and claim that his point has been proven. Muslims are “obsessed” with wiping out the Zionist state – once and for all
Btw: There are so many good ideas to be implemented. Also to have more environment friendly energy resources (Solar, wind, water, waves, deep inside earth) and other ways to fulfil our needs, but it is all in vain, because we have NO ONE to implement the good ideas.
@TK
What I don’t understand is why we have no law to allow us to sell electricity back to the grid. In fact it is completely prohibited. WHY??? For the life of me I don’t understand the logic of that.
I think forcing power producers to buy excess electricity by individual/very small power producers will go a long way to generate solutions….
@ nota
i think his accusation was true even though he himself is an *ss h*le who supported musharraf.
and i ve even heard that Mr 10% asked khanani and kali for his share and when they refused he sent agencies after them.
i think they refused cus Mr 10 % is now Mr 110% ,he must ve asked for too much.
@ali4asat
“Mr 10% asked khanani and kali for his share and when they refused he sent agencies after them”
No doubt about that!!! BTW whatever happened to that investigation? Some “big names” were going to be named by Rehman Dakait…(didn’t Agha talk about that too as to why K&K were not being allowed to talk to the media?)
@ nota
thats the only reason government has stopped media from covering kanani and kalia. otherwise its a state case and they(K and K) ve the right to give their statement to the media.
@Ghost Of TK
i think you miss my whole point
what i mean to say its wind mill is a good project but this is not viable in Punjab where the average speed of the wind is too low to run any windmill which could produce produce enough electricity.
Karachi or coastal area its a good thing.
regarding electric motorcycle. that issue was totally to conserve petrol which can intern be use in other purposes and costs of running would be around Rs1/km or less.
and this Govt has introduce that electric motorcycle as well.
and too be honest as well its because of your obcession and delusions about ceratin things it right for you people to have nuclear energy or weapons.
May be someone like you can come in Govt {obviously through PML or Army coup} and ‘press the button’
and too be honest as well its because of your obsession and delusions about certain things it NOT right for you people to have nuclear energy or weapons.
May be someone like you can come in Govt {obviously through PML or Army coup} and ‘press the button’
india has compiled foolproof evidence on the Mumbai terror attacks and Union Home Minister P Chidambaram will take the dossier to the US next week. The dossier details the role of non-state actors operating from Pakistani soil such as the Lashkar-e-Toiba and the possible complicity of some Pakistani agencies including the ISI. [2137 hrs IST]
why would india show that proof to usa? our begerat, besharam and tattu leadership must be preparing to accept it.
@ali4asat
Q:why would india show that proof to usa?
A:because US is the only superpower in the world.
Q:our “begerat, besharam and tattu” leadership must be preparing to accept it.
A: what should they do if the evidence is convincing. don’t you agree that LeT, Jaish-e-mohammad wanted to ‘destroy India’. the only prof they need to provide is they actually did it rather than just saying it.
@TK
AwaiStein says “because of your obsession and delusions about certain things it NOT right for you people to have nuclear energy or weapons.”
Aren’t you glad he is not one of ‘us’ people. But then we already knew the ‘people’ he belongs too. I am sure he feels they have every right to have “nuclear energy or weapons” ’cause they face those deadly Hamas rockets every day
@AwaiStein
“i think you should grow up and ‘bow’ to the peoples verdict.”
You sound just like Peja (I knew there had to be a jiyala in you somewhere ). I’ll ‘bow’ to it the day Zardari, Rehman Malik, Haqqani, Durrani, Farooqi, etc. get elected and not selected. And I’ll ‘bow’ to it the day you bow to the Hamas election victory. Oops!
@nota: I noticed that too! … but.. but… he has a nice piece of land in Vehari in “the plains of punjab” … where wind speed is only 3-4km which is not sufficient for windmills… but …
I think he’s just trolling now… You see, the ISI operatives work really nicely. First they defend Israel’s heinous attacks on Gaza on a Pakistani forum with bogus logic, then they proceed to defend PPP on a thread related to energy crisis. One can imagine the kind of mental associations people would make after such performances.
Derail the discussion AND make PPP look bad. Ek TikkuT meN do mazay. And the PPP apologists, jiyala’s and others are none the wiser.
@ Awais
are u a CIA or RAW agent?
if the evidence is convincing they should show it to Pak and UN.
and india inside itself has got many organisations running which are enough to destroy her.there are even groups which are demanding separate homeland.
even there are many hindu extremist organisations in india which are working to destroy pak but has pak ever pointed them out or blamed them?
india should sort out its internal matters be4 blaming pak.
the fact is that india is not behaving like a responsible state,pakistan ve to make her behave like one but we don t ve a leadership.
india,israiel and usa are working together to isolate pak and we need to understand this but unfortunately we lack leadership.
tattus like Mr 10 % and musharraf busy licking bush’s dirty shoes.
@Awais: Israel’s a gonner! You can stick a fork in her in 50 years. You freaks could never hold on to a stolen homeland ever. Go read the Torah again.
Your forefathers pulled the same trick 3000 years ago when they showed up one fine day and said: “This is our land”… and the canaanites were like.. “WHAT????” and the Israelites were like… “yeah! God told us! look, its here! in a book we carry around with us!”
and don’t forget the “egyptial holocaust” when poor poor victimized israelites (who built ti pyramids … NOTT!!!) were forced to leave and wonder in the desrt for 40 years…. so the settled people of that era “owed them”..
see any resemblances in behaviour?
In any case. Jerusalem belongs to those who can keep it.
@Awais
u are a true jiyala and u deserve 3rd nomini for BB shaheed NRO memorial award.
so here u go
ladies and getlemen here i nominate Mr Awais for 3rd BB shaheed NRO memeorial award.
claps plz
you again got it wrong here “You people” mean the people having obsession and delusions about things.
I dnt mean ’sensible’ leadership here.
and regarding ‘bowing to the public vote’
in which country a Diplomat is elected by votes.
In which country a adviser to the PM is elected.
Its just your excuse you even dnt ‘blow’ to this Government who is totally eleceted even opposition accepts it.
you dnt ‘bow’ to Zardari who is elected president through 2/3 majority with more than 90% votes in three [out of four] provinces.
you dnt even ‘bow’ to the PM Gillani who has been elected unanimously by the parliment.
you mentioned Hussain Haqqani let me tell you a fact that his work as an ambassador is even acknowledged by the Indian {http://www.jang.net/jm/1-1-2009/pic.asp?picname=1029.gif} that he is beating India in diplomacy and you are saying he non elected. Which ambassador get the elected by the people.
Democrat2007
yea thats right he is an israieli agent and a true jiyala and i ve nominated him for the award. i don t know where is shafi to present the award.
with all these low tech ideas for electricity generation you’re mentioning, shouldn’t it be possible for an engineer to try a few things out and then start a business?
the govt won’t do anything and it will probably also not allow people to sell power to the grid because it has to earn its kickbacks from large IPP contracts, but if a few people take private initiatives and spread the word around, then it could gather enough momentum on its own not to need govt support anymore.
@AwaisBerg
“you mentioned Hussain Haqqani let me tell you a fact that his work as an ambassador is even acknowledged by the Indian”
Finally a fact I can agree with. But don’t be modest. Hussain Haqqani is acknowledged not only by Indai but US, Israel and evry enemy of Pakistsn. (I put in his name intentionally ’cause I knew one Zionist-lover would come to the defense of another. You fvcking jiyalas are so fvcking predictable. )
And now you are switching to weapons again and going for the “Punjabi conspiracy” race card. Brilliant! Jeeyay Sindh!!!
@AwaisZiojala “Agitations in Faisalabad, Sargodha, Gujernwala, and Lahore.
while there is same load shedding in Multan, Karachi, Hyderabad, Pindi, Peshawer, Quetta, GD Khan, Bahawlpur, Interior Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP. Why people are not doing the same there.”
Wind and solar energy is required but we will need diesel for trucks for logistics.
PPP is planning a project in Zahidan , Iran. where it will be safe and transmitt electricity for Pakistan.
We can and should make few more chinese nuclear power stations.
Should not build huge dams, especially controversial ones like Kala Bagh dam.
And each less educated rural family in Pakistan should be given a battery powered with a laptop connected to internet.
This is the future. This will solve our prolems to education more than we ever dreamnt off.
innovative ideas will only work for developing countries. no need to invest too much on schools anyomre, building schools is an old idea, but more efforts needed to built community centers etc.
all electronics should come with a cranker.
and small solar plates like we see on our calculators.
rechargeable electric motor cycles.
but in pakistan it is deliberately avoided because who gonna buy suzuki cars and petrols then.
another only thing that would help is that china makes all of this at a very low cost.
and import duties on allchinese products should be removed. to help our ordinary people of Pakistan.
our favourite minister Jataoi is back in sayasi loog and he is saying ” hum log bijli bilkul khatam kar dein gay”
what a great outspoken bold minister we ve got.
I am writing this comment with no prejudice and no malice towards any political movement or party.
By the very definition democratic elections in a country such as Pakistan or India will bring to power those that can get the maximum number of votes. Since most of the public is ignorant, un educated- it is not shocking that you have the eresults you do have. I shall describe the situation in India- so I will not be hurting anyone’s feelings.
Just imagine Mayawati is in power in U.P. a state of over 100 million people. Now to expect her to bring forth thoughtful, creative and intellectual changes which will improve the living and working conditions of the people of U.P. is to expect a common labourer be able to give a lecture on the theory of relativity. No wonder U.P. is one of the most backward state in the Indian Union .
The changes in India to-day which has made India a technology super power to-day were put in place in 1947 to 1955 by Nehru and his govt.
If we wish to have ample amount of energy for use- we need to have someone who thinks about it and gets creative and thoughtful people who can put the ideas into practice . That requires knowledge, time and effort by educated intelligent people .
If the purpose of the less than intelligent leaders is to remain in power and get rich by stealing the people’s wealth- then pray how are we going to have progress in getting ample amounts of energy over a long period of time continuously.
Now let us look at the present situation in Pakistan-
Since you have had an election which has brought to power ” Mayawati” like leaders- their ideas about solving the energy problem is to buy a solution from afar – because there is money in it for them.
Recently I was made aware of a situation-
A businessman went to China where they have developed a water heater using Solar Heat and he was able to get rights to manyfacture this heater in Pakistan. All contracts etc were signed and when he returned to Pakistan and tried to get the various permits and liscences- he was informed that it was against the law to build such solar heaters in Pakistan. This happened during this democratic govt. Obviously the people who build the current gas heaters for water have more influence . In a thoughtful administration- someone would have considered the benefits of such a device and it’s effect on the energy situation in the country.
We cannot built car’s engines.
We cannot built micro turbines to generate electricity .And everyone says we do not have this technology and that technology .
But on the other hand we can built Tanks and missiles and of course nuclear bombs. That simply means that the talent and know how is available but direction and leadership is missing or absent.
So where will we find the leadership that will have the foresight to plan for the next 50 years-
leadership that will create the conditions for intelligent and creative thoughtful young men and women to learn and develope the infra structure which will and can make the country self sufficient.
Well, such leadership is not available for sale in the bazaar or the shopping mall of the world. As it is – we are selling and exporting the best commodity we have- smart kids to the west and the rest of the world. And these same kids do very well in the west.
Ghost of TK has a valid point about his pet peeve- EDUCATION but education has to start to-day to make a difference in 20 years . And what do we do while we wait ?
Well -perhaps hope that Zardari and Co : have some sudden desire to make themselves IMMORTAL by doing the right things !
@moderator
This is a good change to see someone asks about people views and ideas. Thanks for giving the opportunity and at least someone is leading to the right track.
“if you are satisfied with the performance of government in solving the crisis?”
>>no sane living being would agree, if I say we have not given enough time to show the performance. I think the policies are same with different face/shape but it has shown laid back responses to the emergencies that we are going thru. There is no sense of emergency in the mind of any responsible one.
“Please share your viws on the energy crisis in Pakistan.”
>>In my views, we lack a planning in every aspect of Pakistan growth. We introduced CNG without any planning or even any oversight to keep the balance in the market. Now, we ended up with load-shading the gas as well. we can’t eat without a gas or do any productivity without an electric. Let alone water, it is another necessity being overlooked. We have all resources but without a design, plan, or development. It is true for all areas of interest in Pakistan.
“Please discuss who do you believe is responsible for the crisis”
>> In my view, people are more responsible than our leadership. We have Kunda to steal the electric in all over Pakistan or tampering the meter to reduce the bill. It is ok if we steal but it’s not ok to take 10% commission. Both are wrong. I think it’ll be fun watching if we give contract to so-called Taliban shooting down all KUNDAS from all over Pakistan… hahaha. We need an emergency task force to do that as high priority. First offence is no penalty. On second offence to catch with KUNDA, fine Rs25000 with 3months jail time. Sorry, I have to turn blind for our elite class or it’ll be cruelty to a living being as rest are just the dirt.
What should be the solution?
>>In my view, we begin with:
A) Long term development to deal with energy crisis:
1.Create Mass Transit in all major cities with trains, subways, or some doable mass transit for Pakistan.
2.Locate/Relocate Office buildings and shopping malls across the town near communities which will encourage walking or cycling to work/shopping. It will help eliminate traffic buildups on roads and burn less resources/pollutions.
3.Build extra lanes on major roads for shared-ride traffics to go to work or businesses. It will also encourage people to share ride and go to work faster burn less gas/patrol/less pollutions.
B) Short term or immediate steps to tackle the current energy crisis:
1.While we work on the above long term targets, we must bring awareness to the masses thru all means available.
2.Courtesy messages should be sent thru all online/offline media
3.Send mandates to all businesses to keep usage at must-have to run a business and lights off during after hours.
4.Embrace a shorter working week of 4days.
5.Replace and begin using energy saver as available.
6.Allow shops to begin a day early but close at sunsets
7.All marriage halls should be closed by sunsets meaning all marriages needs to be conducted before sunsets.
8.We need a good control on TV sitcoms/shows/program as millions of people watch. if we control the hours of operations and turn off at one point, we’ll have all TVs shutdown by certain time and save a lot of resources.
C) We as people of Pakistan seem to be duped or may be just acting like a dumb in front of whole world. I think several comments have been repeated enough about us as nation. Finger pointing is no more an option for us to bring a change. We all have to wake up and take a stand for our rights. We don’t need a bloody revolution to just wake up for the rights. We as people are responsible and so far we have not shown any wishes to bring change. We still complain and complain and do nothing about it. We don’t need a rally to begin with. Electronic means are enough to shake them down. Re-election would not bring any change as well. It is the people need to be changed to bring a change in leadership. Current parties are not viable to bring any change. Both major parties are ready to take on each other as they show hungry for power and revenge. It only requires a team of dedicated, sincere, and honest citizen like you and me to stand united to the cause. All conspiracies end where people stand united. There is more to be said but time is short for now.
whoever is in a position to help or promote this project should try to promote this idea for our pakistani children. if this goes through it will be a dream come true for Pakistan InshaAllah.
@ Awais
You look very reasonable in discussion with other ( Ghost nota and others). After 60 years we have not learned a bit, we call every one who talks / speaks truth and with reasonability an agent of India and Israel.
There were times when Jamiti types use to call people with knowledge, wisdom and reasonability Russian agents.
Well done Awais keep it up.
Further more all so called patriots ( muhib i watan) are real agents.
We need to come out of this Indian and Israel Phobia as Zardari rightly said ” India is no threat to Pakistan”.
Our real enemies are those who are funding and supporting every type of terrorism in the name of Jihad and Talibinazation, also all those who are supporting those so called talibans whether in politics or in military.
I think this big task of energy crisis can only be handel by persons like Dr.Qadeer. call him seek mercy to him ask forgiveness to him request him to help the country. I am sure even its not his field he will make it happen.We have sun light , we have biggest resvoires of coal, we have rivers, but we have PPP’s govt.
@AwaisStein, the “victim”
“they started deleting my threads in order to stop my saying what i believe in. ”
Which ones? Seeing the amount of pure sh!t of yours that has gotten through, I seriously doubt it (If some were deleted they probably had to do with repetition i.e. spamming)
What is also interesting is you did not reply to my post above. Is it cause it proved you are full of cr@p?
Note the work “country”. But I know you are going to stick with your “PML-N Conspiracy” theory from the PPP playbook (Do you have any independent thought or you just follow PPP or Zionist guides for the Zioyalas?)
@dara, no surprise you finding @Awaiswitz “reasonalble”…
What is interesting to me is where this mutual admiration between Zionists and Jiyalas comes from. Can anyone answer me on this?
What is also interesting is Raja Perwaiz one the one hand blaming the protests against load-shedding a “conspiracy” and on the other stating “load-shedding to be halved in 24-hours”.
If it could be halved so easily and quickly then why wasn’t it done sooner? No one was stopping them so why let it come to this? That to me seems more of a conspiracy on PPP’s part than otherwise…
I’m sure you and your friends hate Edward Said’s guts. Keep on.
Israel is a sterile child. Israel will have to vanish from the pages of History. Not for some religious reasons, but simply because it’s un-tenable, and a nation simply cannot exist the way medinat yisrael is trying to exist.
The 3rd genearation is unwilling to fight the wars of expansion and mass-mrrder within the boundaries of “davidian” land stolen from rightful citizens the Palestinians. Just imagine what the 4th and 5th generations fattened up on Palestinian water and sugary coca-cola will do?
You demoralize your own nation every time you commit these genocidal acts of brutality against the Palestinians the rightful inhabitants of the land you stole.
Ham to yaheiN haiN bhai.. Ham yahaN 1400 saal say thay aur haiN. Aur ham hi yahiN raheNgay.
Pervaiz Ashraf today cried against “public discrimination” against PPP saying that no one protested against load-shedding during Mush era, but they are protesting now.
Instead of such childish rhetoric PPP should be honest with the people. They should describe the energy crsis to the people and then explain their rescue plan. If the leadership is honest and sincere people will respond positively.
But unfortunately the PPP leaders are too busy plundering. Plus this government has no credibility at all, Zardari has said that his word of mouth as good as anyone’s rear-end emission. How can anyone trust him?
Hi Kruman,
I don’t think they are plundering with the public money. They are just not competent enough to demonstrate the urgency needed to resolve these issues.
Pervaiz Ashraf’s protest about public demonstrations does not make any sense. Several of government spokespersons made repeated statements that they got votes in the name of public welfare and not for strengthening judiciary. Now they can’t run away from that.
Hi Mansoor Chaudhry,
I think it is time that we should get a little honest with ourselves. All along the Zia’s era, we were indoctrinated that Pakistan was the best country in the world, rich in resources, that it’s government had always been working for the benefit of the people.
The truth is that our rivers are no longer carrying enough water to sustain power production, and cultivation for a population in excess of 160 million. To make things worse, our polygamist mullahs have been advocating high reproduction rates by setting bad examples. Consequently, Pakistani males turned the women into reproduction machines. Now they should seriously start thinking about curtailing the population growth rates, if we don’t want Pakistan to cripple under our own weight.
The current energy crises I must say there is only and only 1 reason.
PRIVATIZATION
There are 3 types of properties in the world.
1. Private (give right to any one)
2. public (can’t give to any one) only for public use (like Energy, dam, parks. Etc.)
3. Govt (for Govt use)
Privatization means you are giving this property in one hand, First of all building these energy sources like dams and others; there is only 1 motive to serve people.
However when we give ownership to one person, (one company). The actual objective die. And one person has only one thing in mind that is to take as much benefits as much he can. So serving people is no objective for him.
He can increase prises any time he wants. He can increase or decrease production depends how much profit he can make.
If we see the current crises in Pakistan,
We can see that previous Govt privatize the public property like Energy, build their own energy powers units sold to 1 hand (company) and then buying same from that company, WOW.
As a result the person who is now owner it’s up to him, he bought this property so that he can enjoy max benefits from it. As currently Pakistan Govt is not paying to these companies that are why these companies are not able to produce Electricity.
If we see from our faith (Islam), Islam does not allow privatizing the public property, and it called Haram (as Alcohol is haram, as Zina is haram etc).
As we all know that in Medina When a Well was owned by a Jew and our prophet (PBUH). Asked any one to buy this well and give to all people of Medina, And Hazrat Usman (Razi allah tala annaha) bought this and gave to all people.
Infect,
our prophet (PBUH) said, that
“”Fire, Water and Fields are for Ummah””
What does it means actually that a Govt can’t privatize or give ownership of the public property to one person or company. And privatization of the public property is not allowed in Islam.
As a Muslim we all believe that God has provided every solution in Islam, and we must consult Islam at any cost, at any level, and yes Islam said that we can’t make a public property to a private property. Very simple.
As we can see in Europe there are no of companies increases their bills for Gas and electric when Oil prices were all time high (140 USD),
But they did not decrease their energy prices after the Oil prices all time low now (40 USD).
The reason is this that Govt has not control on it. And also these companies are looking to get maximum profit. They are not here to serve the people. While the major objective of these things to serve the people.
On top of it, the sources we are using to produce Energy is also expensive, not like water, air, and coal (remember Pakistan has 5th largest Coal) in the world.
CONCLUSION:
Oh Muslims Ummaha of Pakistan,
We must understand that, this current system (democracy or Dictatorship) does not give any thing to us. Apart from after 1 crises to another, because our rulers weather there is a democratic or Dictator (remember Dictatorship can’t not also run with the help of these politician,). Do what ever they want, mould man made rule for the sake of their benefits. Bringing Ummah of Pakistan to their knees so that we can slave to USA and other kufar State.
There is only one solution, Reject this Kufar System, and bring back Islamic systems (khilafah). Which only rule by God? There is only one way to save our self from one crisis to another.
Slashdot on Monday January 05, @03:59PM
=========================
“The Star reports about a new power generation model using smaller distributed power generators located closer to the consumer. This saves money on power generation lines and creates an infrastructure that can be more easily expanded with smaller incremental steps, compared to bigger centralized power generation projects. The generators in line for this are green sources, but Hyperion Power Generation, NuScale, Adams Atomic Engines (and some other companies) are offering small nuclear reactors to plug into this type of infrastructure. The generator from Hyperion is about the size of a garden shed, and uses older technology that is not capable of creating nuclear warheads, and supposedly self-regulating so it won’t go critical. They envision burying reactors near the consumers for 5-10 years, digging them back up and recycling them. Since they are so low maintenance and self-contained, they are calling them nuclear batteries.”
Oh yes I am very much satisfied with the performance of PPP Government and most horrorable Asif Zardari….. My dear countrymen as we are all Muslims and believe in life after death so these are the MOCK EXAMS for hell. We did witness heaven or atleast our great grand parents did so now you can be well aware or will have experience what hell is going to be like…
sab se pahle tou i believe kah current officials jhoot bol rahe hain coz inhoon nai khud aesa keya kiya hai kah jis se 2009 dec tak loadshedding khatam hojaye gi? they claim kah hum rentals plants laa rahe hain magar inhoon nai khud tou koi bhi installation start nahin ki? aur is news clip kah hisab se pata chalta hai kah last years main khuch plants lage hain jo 2009 aur 2010 main complete hongay jis ka credit current gov le li gi…aur 2nd baat kah yeh sab units full functional hi nahin hain its means kah loog ziada se ziada gass ya phir patrol ya diesel use kareen jis main is time gov patrol par about 30rs tax aur diesel par 20 rs tax le rahe hai!!
I’m so sorry people but all of you are only criticizing and complaining about the past and current governments which is not doing anyone any good. Instead of complaining why can we the public of pakistan take the matters in our own hands and fix our country. Load shedding is the biggest hurdle towards success of our country. How can we move forward with technology or try to eliminate poverty from this country when there is no energy available. Why is it that india can have huge amounts of investments from indians abroad as well as other governments when pakistan has the toughest import laws and rediculous tarrifs why are we the people of pakistan letting this go on and on. I live in the US however I spent eight months in pakistan in 2008 and seriously the gap between the haves and have nots is so huge and educations is only available to army ass##### and not the general public. Instead of working on the infrastructure of the country we are more focused on having more guns than india. It is time for the new generation to wake up and realize that if we don’t do something now we might not have a pakistan tommorow we need new ideas. we need to attract foreign investment. Ever since my return from pakistan I can think of nothing else but pakistan and how to make the lives of the everyday people better in the country. Why do we keep electing people who have their bank accounts in other countries and investments are made by these asses outside the country everyone just wants to steal from pakistan and no one wants to make it better. Please have a voice in the future of pakistan. rise up people and get some guts or atlease give someone else a chance instead of electing the same corrupt leaders back into the offices. Electricity is not that hard to produce and distribute.
Dude you have come up with very valid points but it seems u have some problem with ppl having cars .Shortage of gas is not at all because of CNG sector as a whole consumes less than 6 percent of the total gas output.
Do u think
cutting down 6 percent consumption will actually make the industry face no shortage of gas at all.
CNG has resulted in savings of more than $250 million per annum of foreign exchange for Pakistan.
The investments of more than Rs60 billion of middle and lower middle class people, who converted their vehicles to use cheap and environment-friendly CNG, would go to waste.
This will create unemployment and will effect the banking sector too who has taken exposure in financing CNG pumps.
My suggestion is
1) Get the circular railway system going in Karachi.
2) If people have an idea how to come up with a cheap solar panel or a way to produce electricity at home try educating everyone so that we all can give it a try.If successful the rest will follow.
Don’t be furious on politician or army cause they r there cause educated people prefer to go abroad or be an engineer,doctor,banker and never thought of forming an alliance with each other to form a political party which is loyal to the motherland.
stop the blame game lets try to come up with solutions not suggestions.
After the recent award of highest Pakistani civilian awards to Boucher and Biden, comes the sensationalist new technology to generate free and renewable energy.
Please share your views on the energy crisis in Pakistan. Please discuss who do you believe is responsible for the crisis, what should be the solution and if you are satisfied with the performance of government in solving the crisis.
let me explain in simple terms
the only thing which Pakistan has almost free of cost was GAS which was mainly used for domestic, industrial and to produce electricity.
Few Years ago some champion thought to run the petrol car {which are only used by Middle class to upper class} on this Gas {CNG}. and then we saw a boom in CNG stations in every corner of the country.
now thanks to this consumtion of Gas as CNG by Petrol Vehicles GAS in Pakistan is F**cked up.
Please notes CNG is only used by the Rich or Middle class {5-7% of the people of Pakistan} who owns a car.
so less gas means
1-more load shedding of gas for domestic gas
2-Less supply of gas to produce electricity
3-Less supply for industrial purpose
4-Increase consumption of gas in winter {which is a peak season for gas consumption}
now Gas is something which cannot be important with out a pipeline.
so my friend Have fun and curse the CNG users for all this mess.
secondly
less flow of water in rivers in winter –>less production of electricity–> which makes the crisis into disaster.
Solution:
more electricity production units.
—> that takes time [at least years}
come on people start blaming Zardari for energy crises as well.
nobody could deny the fact that It was Banazir’s Govt who brought investment in energy sector and since 1996 when her last Govt was toppled not a single new unit has been produced.
Now PPP’s new Govt will some how or other bring fresh investment not only in energy but in right areas like agriculture, education and health and then stupid people will start labeling charges of corruption on them.
where has 12 billion of direct support from USA gone?
Why we are so afraid of questioning Military generals? i am sure every body will like to see Musharaf behind the bars or hanged BUT that was not Musharaf alone but the whole group including generals in uniform who are responsible for not only energy crises but the darkness around us.
@dara
Don’t make a fool out of you. Did you see any one blaming AZ for nothing. No one will blame him here for energy crisis.
When i say darkness doesn’t only mean load shedding but the Darkness of extremism, darkness of bad economy, sponsored by people in establishment.
The entire nation as a whole is against building new dams. This is what happens when you don’t build new dams for water/electricity. Enjoy the darkness, everyone.
yes when Mushi forced everyone for DAMS then stupid mqm ppl came & they supported this sindh….& these jiyalas of sindh also supported altaf kutta & then mushi took back the plan of Kala Bagh dam….Mushi did wanted something good for Pakistanis…but these jerks of mqm……ahhh I hate them..
Who’s responsible?
We — the Pakistani Nation, the ill-educated, easily-misled, spineless, weak-willed FOOLS that we are — are responsible.
The public isn’t educated enough to make the right choices.
The “ruling class” (the glove that hides the iron-fist of the stay-behind network – the real rulers) is too craven and greedy to want to change this situation.
This combination of clue-less masses and wicked leadership are responsible for this crisis and others.
Determining “how exactly” is just logistics and forensics.
Cure? Universal, Compulsory Education till Middle school with a revamped curriculum. (Sorry! No Sexy, quick-n-dirty fixes for ya)
The latest outcome of these attitudes was the last 9 years of the disasterous and despicable Jurnaili-Raj brought to you courtesy of the KoThay-Tapni Army’s jawans of Triple-One Brigade, Vulturistic jurnails and their politician counterparts, the legal jadoo-gar’s, and the shamelessly clueless Pakistani people!
Satisfied with the Govt. Performance?
Hell No! They fvcked around with stupid stuff while real stuff went from bad to worse, be it the financial crises, water shortages, or the impending implosion of the power sector (not to mention the subsequent implosion of the bachi-khuchi industries that depend on power)
What can be done?
A GIGANTIC! and I mean GI-FVCKING-GANTIC … Did I say GIGANTIC? … yes a HUMOUNGOUSLY GIGANTIC DAAMMMMM must be built which is 5 billion miles high and 40 trillion miles wide!
Nothing less spectacular is sexy enough for this nation which can’t even fvcking grow tomatoes on its own anymore and has to import them from its arch enemey (and we’re expected to believe we will become a seesa pilai deewar …. umm hmmm…)
I think this nation is itself seesa-pilai because nothing else would explain our monumental collective stupidity .. .well nothing short of massive doses of lead directly to our feeble brains.
P.S. There is no point in wasting breath suggesting real-world solutions because they seem outlandish to people while I know there is at least 3 people who are shaking their heads in agreement after reading the “GINORMOUS DAMMM” proposal of mine (they may have quibbles with the billion-mile height, but other than that….)
cheers.
Perhaps the comments so far are reflective of the reasons why such problems exist to-day.
Education about the use of energy is OK.
Education per se is good.
But it takes time to educate and before you can educate the kids- you have to educate the parents- and first you have to educate them about the fact that more children means more people and more people means fewer resources such as energy.
And who will educate these people- well the leaders do not wish for them to be educated since that will mean these leaders will not be elected- so it is in the interest of the leaders that most Pakistanis remain un educated.
So we are back to who will bell the cat scenario.
Now what to do about the energy situation as it is to-day-
1.Enforce the times the shops can remain open-i,e- during the day light hours and not late at night.
2. Eliminate the CNG subsidy( indirect) to the rich .
3. Ban the sale of air conditioners and generators for 3 years.
4. Build small dams for making water reservoirs and producing electricity.
5. Steal the Solar technology from the west and manufacture solar panels to produce solar electricity.
6.Steal the Wind turbine technology from the West and do the same as solar.
And finally get ready for a revolutions from the greedy, lazy and comfort loving people of Pakistan !
We are sitting on hundreds of billions of dollars (US not Zimbabwe) worth of solar heat and we are destitute!
It doesn’t take einstein to convert that energy. It is so abundant that even if we convert at really bad efficiencies, we’ll be ahead of the game.
think Crude steam engines, crude boilers, crude generators all made in ‘cottage workshops’ in bure-wala, jacob-abad, faisal-abad or any other abad in Pakistan.
Instead of one 50 horsepower electric tubewell, think 500 wind-powered crude water-pumps made out of pvc pipe, rope and wooden disks..
think generators run by horse/ox/camel power for a small village.
None of this has any “commission potential” … and it is dangerous because it empowers the sheeple … so it must not be pursued (and ridiculed to boot).
Heck, even the old steam locomotives could be used to run a few megawatts each worth of generators if solar is used to run the boilers (fully or partially heating the water).
The thing is, we’ve been taught to sit on our a$$es and WAIT for “the technology transfer” ….
Can’t even make steam engines in 21st century… How screwed up is that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E30md1iPUfQ
(its a little tesla turbine running off of a pressure cooker … neat stuff)
it jst govt responsible….i can,t understand dat money they beged frm IMF, where dat money is gone…in pockets of govt??? until unless people of pakistan wont standup against govt, it will continue 2 be like dat…so i including me request all pakistani in pakistan and all over the world to wake up noe and do smething and support IMRAN KHAN.donate him money as he need money 2 establish his pary all over pakistan.go to his website and see http://www.insaf.pk….ALLAH hamere haal pe reham kare aur hamin ALLH ki taraf dua ke taufeeq de…
Hydel power ……… flowing rivers provide enough head over a distance of mere few kilometers to allow you to place a turbine and start generating free electricity ……..
PPP’s slogan:
Roti, kapra, makan but no electricity, no water and no flour.
Take your pick.
small dams in PUKHTOONKHWA(areas still in govt of pak control)NORTHERN AREAS and other places where its possible.
In PUKHTOONKHWA alone 45 thousand megawatt of hydro electricity could be produced.
Jurnails are requested to PRODUCE ELECTRITY instead of PRODUCING TALIBAN.
@Ghost Of TK Says:
January 3rd, 2009 at 2:40 am
its a little tesla turbine running off of a pressure cooker … neat stuff
The only other use beside cooking of a pressure cooker in our region is making BOMBS out of them.happy?
@Ghost Of TK
no there no enough water
are you gonna build a GIGANTIC DAM on air?
first prove that there is enough water in Indus river system then Building a dam is a solution.
@Kruman
I think brother you and read their manifesto
‘ignorance is blessing’
quick solutions are
1-coal
2-Thermal
3-win energy only on coastal area
4-domestic use of solar {to cut down domestic use}
5-CLOSE ALL CNG Stations and use that GAS to produce electricity or run industry. {let the F**King Car owners to run their car on Petrol}
@ataraxis6
Well said. And happy new year to you too.
Sad thing is that it takes more knowhow to buld this jihadi-death-jackets than it does to build simple power generators.
Again, we’re back to education. “Garbage in, Garbage out” as they say in comp. sci.
All wooden wind generator
Also, look at this simple wind driven water pump. Imagine its air collection surface (or even the whole setup) built out of straw mats instead of metal sheet.
At the low speeds, it will convert power nicely and lift water up to a slightly elevated reservoir.
some more vids:
chinese company exporting simple wind-pumps (prolly cheaper than the $100,000(?) per solar-tubewell raja pervaiz ashraf (bijli boy) talked about not too long ago)
A collection of simple farm windmills
Just goes to show that these things can be made our farmers themselves. But they don’t do it… WHY?
Heck every farmer seems to have a hand-pump in their court-yard.. why not hook that up to a wind-mills like that and collect water in a raised tank 24/7 ???
Its just tin and ball bearings and wooden paddles! why isn’t anyone in Paksitan doing it? it will free them from having to wait for their turn at the electric tubewell?
Why is all our ingenuity wasted on stealing from fellow pakistanis and not used for coming up with solutions that will help ourselves (and everyone else in the long run) ?
BB’s will put forth by Asif Zardari is fake, so says Naheed Khan (Geo TV).
Naheed Khan has stated that she never sas any will, nor did BB ever mention one.
so then dnt they prove that will is Fake.
rather than Just Making the lame excuses.
now you will tell the PPP votes under the leadership of Zardari was also fake.
its very simple hire a writing expert in UK, US or any Developed country and asked him to check that will.
if you need a copy of the will i can email that to you.
otherwise if you cannot do this the shut your mouth.
@Ghost Of TK
where will you get the wind in the plans of Punjab to run that windmill.
the only area where you can have that is coastal area and people are already using that to a degree.
i agree that can be improved
Pakistani do have a potential if they can made these sort of things http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ_y1zGMnjU&feature=related they can easy make solar panels and system which will be a big bless for the planes of Punjab.
people are trying and they will find a way out.
Salute to people of Pakistan
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5ihKT89FgN0
I think what we the public can do is to conserve as much energy as we could.
No Gas heaters at home at all.{use fire if possible}
No electric/Gas Greaser
No Extra lights in the evening
Try to use Solar Panels as much as possible i heard they are available in Lahore and Karachi.
and give time to government so sort out this mess which will obviously take time.
@Awais: the point is that the farm based windmills don’t really need high-speed winds and they pump water every time there is a bit of wind.
And re: the link you posted, yeah, the thing is that our ‘educated class’ only knows how to say NO (I call them Negative Ninnies) … our working class on the other hand, fortunately doesn’t know that “OMG IT CANT BE DONE!!!” (a constant refrain of our middle/’educated’ classes)
You should visit ‘plains’ of punjab… it gets plenty wind.
Today wind speed in and around Lahore area in 3-4MPH.
I m in Scotland which is a home of windmills.
and average speed needed is about 15-20MPH minimum which gives you sustainable energy.
but any way this is a good productive idea.
*-other thing i was looking into recently was the Solar tube well. {fortunately i had a piece of land in Punjab’s most fertile area Vehari} and i am considering this.
*-other point is that Pakistani Farmers should use Vegetable oil {i.e BioFuel} to run their Diesel Generators and Tractors. which will help a great deal to our country to reduce the oil import bill.
i mean electric motorcycle is a great option to cut the Patrol cost for middle class and i am sure Pakistan will take less than a minute to build that in Pakistan, because it doesn’t need any thing special in it.
we all need to know and plan that Pakistanis future is not in Oil driven electricity or Hydroelectric electricity.
what we will need is to conserve and change to Wind, thermal, solar, and bio-electricity.
I am not a fan of Nuclear energy just because i dont think we are capable enough to safe guard it. and God forbid one day we will a disaster like Chernobyl.
already there are allegation that Pakistani authorities were dumping the nuclear waste next of DG Khan City.
one thing that annoys me is that…
how can this be possible that for the whole month, i.e.Ramazan, only on one person’s order there was no loadshedding…
think about it???
ii anyone has an answer to this…plzz mention it…
the only prob with electricity is that government is not paying debt to the companies which produce electricity.
during Ramadan they paid them a bit and loadsheddig was over.if the gov pays its debt 2day there will be no more loadshedding.
If alone kala bagh dam comes into being we don t need to worry about future loadshedding but Musharraf besharam was busy saving his “kursi” and now Mr 10 % is busy filling his own pockets and saving his “kursi” ,who cares about this nation !
Kala Bagh! a victim of red tape
people a victim of their vote whether it goes for ayub, butto, zia, ns, bb, mush….
Dear all,
We are just talking about one problem (i.e., Energy). There are many other problems facing this nation. If you try to solve one problem, other problems are emerged and then you try to solve that problem, In the mean time, the Govt is changed. So, we are just running in the same loop and hence not proceeded further. We need a multidisciplinary approach and try to tackle all problems in parallel. Of-course this needs stretegic and long term visionary approach. The obvious question is then “How should we move forward” as a nation so that we can think of some progress in our society.
Here are my suggestions
1: We first of all need to redefine and repolish our constitution. Since existing constitution has many abberations, biased and selective amendements. This should be done under the supervision of national committee based on University Chancellors, Chief justices of Supreme Court, Ex-Cheif justices of Supreme court of national repute, Supreme Court Bar members, and Other expert of different fields and one representative of each registered political party etc
2: We need a true national leadership in our country (Priority 1). A leadership which possess competence and reflect the aspiration of our nation.
3: In order to achieve above objectives, we need a continuiuty of general election under UNO obervation in our country. We can then only filter out many fake, ghost and incompetent politician.
4: Assuming above two objectives are inplace, we need to strengthen our Institutions. We should first start from our Judiciary.
5: We should then start a national compaign of developing nationalism within our society. This should be done through media, educational institutions and other walk of life. Ban all discussion on TV/Radio/Print media about contradictory issues such as linguistics, sect, Sindhis/Punjabi/Pushton/Baluchi cultural favioritism etc.
6: Define short and long term policies based on our enviornment
I think this is the only way to proceed further.
@nawaz
“We are just talking about one problem (i.e., Energy).”
Ah, but not that little a problem. It is more like a (combined) symptom of many others that you talk about. What you are talking about right now seems fantasy land. Eor example, take your point 1: New constitution. Can we afford this luxury right now? Second, you include “Chief justices of Supreme Court” among the people to work on it. Which ones? The very idea of PCO justices writing one is repulsive.
Then you say “We need a true national leadership in our country”. Right. And what are we going to do with the present one? Wait 5 years? In the mean time we do nothing about the crisis being discussed? No you say; you say first we need “a continuiuty of general elections.” Damn! That means we continue with the current energy crisis — say — for another 20 years?? But wait. You say we leave it for a bit longer. After 20 years or so whn we have achieved that continuity and found good leadership, then we should find good judges (how can you do the first without it???) Can we then start dealing with energy? No you say. Next you eant us to develop “nationalism”. What the hell are you smoking, dude?
Faisalabad bursts into protest against load shedding of power, gas
@ali4asat
“the only prob with electricity is that government is not paying debt to the companies”
Exactly!
BTW, did you hear the accusation Senator Kamil Ali Agha made in yesterday’s Kal Tak?
He accused Zardari of forcing the independent power producers to shut down by demanding they open their books for all the years since PPP lost power so that he can collect his commission (remember Mr 10% was accused of bringing them in in return for commissions to be paid to him in return for which he allowed them to charge much higher rates than the prevailing ones at the time)
^^^
“collect his commission” should read “collect his commission for those years PPP was not in power”
@Awais: way to bark up the wrong trees dude. You have a tendency to compare apples to oranges. The “sustainable energy” you’re talking about is for windmills that have 300 foot fan-blades and generate 50MW per unit.
I’m talking about 50 little windmills all low-tech….
And then you go and post a video to disprove your own point. how typical …;-)
BTW, the keyword in “Electric Motorcycle” is… you guessed it ELECTRIC! … yessirreebob.
The whole problem we’re discussing is how to get hold of the elusive megawatts we don’t seem to have. Can’t charge your ELECTRIC motorcycle (which they DO have in pakistan btw) if you don’t have ELECTRICITY.
Agree with your conservation points, but we need to go further than this. Only then can we attack and destroy israel and wipe it off the face of the earth.
@Nawaz: So you’re basically asking for another Military Dictatorship because all that you are proposing are essentially agenda-points on every new dictator’s recipe for ‘fixing’ (as in neutering) this nation.
[begin sheeda tulli]
1. Oh ji, Aa’een hi ghalat hai ji, is ko theek karna hai ji, bulao uss kutti-day-puttar jadoogar ko
2. Oh ji, leader hi theek naheeN haiN ji… disiplined, neat, tidy leedurr honaa chaiiay jiiiiiii!
3. Oh ji band karo in mulak-dushman sahafiyooN ko ji
4. oh ji asbiat pasandi band karo ji… ye kia balochi, sindhi lagai hui hai? gas do punjab ko, aur muTh rakho.
[end sheeda tulli]
yeah. sure. keep dreaming.
Lack of generation capacity is only part of the problem; the rest is due to non-payment of bills to the IPPs. People really need to be vigilent or Zardari might use this power crisis as an excuse to sign grossly expensive contracts with new IPPs. Remember the rip off of the 1990s?
For details, check
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OcBUj-BeTM
@GoTK
“Agree with your conservation points, but we need to go further than this. Only then can we attack and destroy israel and wipe it off the face of the earth.”
He..he.he
Now Awais will return and claim that his point has been proven. Muslims are “obsessed” with wiping out the Zionist state – once and for all
Btw: There are so many good ideas to be implemented. Also to have more environment friendly energy resources (Solar, wind, water, waves, deep inside earth) and other ways to fulfil our needs, but it is all in vain, because we have NO ONE to implement the good ideas.
@TK
What I don’t understand is why we have no law to allow us to sell electricity back to the grid. In fact it is completely prohibited. WHY??? For the life of me I don’t understand the logic of that.
I think forcing power producers to buy excess electricity by individual/very small power producers will go a long way to generate solutions….
@ nota
i think his accusation was true even though he himself is an *ss h*le who supported musharraf.
and i ve even heard that Mr 10% asked khanani and kali for his share and when they refused he sent agencies after them.
i think they refused cus Mr 10 % is now Mr 110% ,he must ve asked for too much.
@Democrat2007
“Remember the ripoff of 100s”
That is exactly what I am talking about above. I think there is truth to Agha’s allegation….
@ali4asat
“Mr 10% asked khanani and kali for his share and when they refused he sent agencies after them”
No doubt about that!!! BTW whatever happened to that investigation? Some “big names” were going to be named by Rehman Dakait…(didn’t Agha talk about that too as to why K&K were not being allowed to talk to the media?)
kanani and kalia*
@ nota
thats the only reason government has stopped media from covering kanani and kalia. otherwise its a state case and they(K and K) ve the right to give their statement to the media.
@Ghost Of TK
i think you miss my whole point
what i mean to say its wind mill is a good project but this is not viable in Punjab where the average speed of the wind is too low to run any windmill which could produce produce enough electricity.
Karachi or coastal area its a good thing.
regarding electric motorcycle. that issue was totally to conserve petrol which can intern be use in other purposes and costs of running would be around Rs1/km or less.
and this Govt has introduce that electric motorcycle as well.
and too be honest as well its because of your obcession and delusions about ceratin things it right for you people to have nuclear energy or weapons.
May be someone like you can come in Govt {obviously through PML or Army coup} and ‘press the button’
correction please
and too be honest as well its because of your obsession and delusions about certain things it NOT right for you people to have nuclear energy or weapons.
May be someone like you can come in Govt {obviously through PML or Army coup} and ‘press the button’
@nota and others
no one listen about your allegations of corruption on PPP government.
People of Pakistan again and again shown their confidence in them, by their votes, in spite of all your ‘character assassinations’
i think you should grow up and ‘bow’ to the peoples verdict.
india has compiled foolproof evidence on the Mumbai terror attacks and Union Home Minister P Chidambaram will take the dossier to the US next week. The dossier details the role of non-state actors operating from Pakistani soil such as the Lashkar-e-Toiba and the possible complicity of some Pakistani agencies including the ISI. [2137 hrs IST]
why would india show that proof to usa? our begerat, besharam and tattu leadership must be preparing to accept it.
@ali4asat
Q:why would india show that proof to usa?
A:because US is the only superpower in the world.
Q:our “begerat, besharam and tattu” leadership must be preparing to accept it.
A: what should they do if the evidence is convincing. don’t you agree that LeT, Jaish-e-mohammad wanted to ‘destroy India’. the only prof they need to provide is they actually did it rather than just saying it.
@TK
AwaiStein says “because of your obsession and delusions about certain things it NOT right for you people to have nuclear energy or weapons.”
Aren’t you glad he is not one of ‘us’ people. But then we already knew the ‘people’ he belongs too. I am sure he feels they have every right to have “nuclear energy or weapons” ’cause they face those deadly Hamas rockets every day
@AwaiStein
“i think you should grow up and ‘bow’ to the peoples verdict.”
You sound just like Peja (I knew there had to be a jiyala in you somewhere
). I’ll ‘bow’ to it the day Zardari, Rehman Malik, Haqqani, Durrani, Farooqi, etc. get elected and not selected. And I’ll ‘bow’ to it the day you bow to the Hamas election victory. Oops! 
@nota: I noticed that too!
… but.. but… he has a nice piece of land in Vehari in “the plains of punjab” … where wind speed is only 3-4km which is not sufficient for windmills… but …
I think he’s just trolling now… You see, the ISI operatives work really nicely. First they defend Israel’s heinous attacks on Gaza on a Pakistani forum with bogus logic, then they proceed to defend PPP on a thread related to energy crisis. One can imagine the kind of mental associations people would make after such performances.
Derail the discussion AND make PPP look bad. Ek TikkuT meN do mazay. And the PPP apologists, jiyala’s and others are none the wiser.
@ Awais
are u a CIA or RAW agent?
if the evidence is convincing they should show it to Pak and UN.
and india inside itself has got many organisations running which are enough to destroy her.there are even groups which are demanding separate homeland.
even there are many hindu extremist organisations in india which are working to destroy pak but has pak ever pointed them out or blamed them?
india should sort out its internal matters be4 blaming pak.
the fact is that india is not behaving like a responsible state,pakistan ve to make her behave like one but we don t ve a leadership.
india,israiel and usa are working together to isolate pak and we need to understand this but unfortunately we lack leadership.
tattus like Mr 10 % and musharraf busy licking bush’s dirty shoes.
@Awais: Israel’s a gonner! You can stick a fork in her in 50 years. You freaks could never hold on to a stolen homeland ever. Go read the Torah again.
Your forefathers pulled the same trick 3000 years ago when they showed up one fine day and said: “This is our land”… and the canaanites were like.. “WHAT????” and the Israelites were like… “yeah! God told us! look, its here! in a book we carry around with us!”
and don’t forget the “egyptial holocaust” when poor poor victimized israelites (who built ti pyramids … NOTT!!!) were forced to leave and wonder in the desrt for 40 years…. so the settled people of that era “owed them”..
see any resemblances in behaviour?
In any case. Jerusalem belongs to those who can keep it.
Happy Channukah!
@Awais
u are a true jiyala and u deserve 3rd nomini for BB shaheed NRO memorial award.
so here u go
ladies and getlemen here i nominate Mr Awais for 3rd BB shaheed NRO memeorial award.
claps plz
nota
you again got it wrong here “You people” mean the people having obsession and delusions about things.
I dnt mean ’sensible’ leadership here.
and regarding ‘bowing to the public vote’
in which country a Diplomat is elected by votes.
In which country a adviser to the PM is elected.
Its just your excuse you even dnt ‘blow’ to this Government who is totally eleceted even opposition accepts it.
you dnt ‘bow’ to Zardari who is elected president through 2/3 majority with more than 90% votes in three [out of four] provinces.
you dnt even ‘bow’ to the PM Gillani who has been elected unanimously by the parliment.
you mentioned Hussain Haqqani let me tell you a fact that his work as an ambassador is even acknowledged by the Indian {http://www.jang.net/jm/1-1-2009/pic.asp?picname=1029.gif} that he is beating India in diplomacy and you are saying he non elected. Which ambassador get the elected by the people.
@Ghost Of TK
Jannab aaap bhi Yehin Hum Bhi Yehein.
Israel will stay there along with an independent Palestinian state. I am not sure about Hamas.
I would recommend you to see this link
http://www.jang.net/jm/1-1-2009/pic.asp?picname=1029.gif
We should demand mid-term elections and kick zaradri league out. Public must come out on streets. We had enough of these bunch of incompetent pricks.
@ali4asat:
Looks like Mr. Awais is another nominee for the BB shaheed NRO memorial award
Awais beta, hitler was also elected by the people, that doesn’t make him a good guy.
Democrat2007
yea thats right he is an israieli agent and a true jiyala and i ve nominated him for the award. i don t know where is shafi to present the award.
@ghost:
with all these low tech ideas for electricity generation you’re mentioning, shouldn’t it be possible for an engineer to try a few things out and then start a business?
the govt won’t do anything and it will probably also not allow people to sell power to the grid because it has to earn its kickbacks from large IPP contracts, but if a few people take private initiatives and spread the word around, then it could gather enough momentum on its own not to need govt support anymore.
@AwaisBerg
“you mentioned Hussain Haqqani let me tell you a fact that his work as an ambassador is even acknowledged by the Indian”
Finally a fact I can agree with. But don’t be modest. Hussain Haqqani is acknowledged not only by Indai but US, Israel and evry enemy of Pakistsn. (I put in his name intentionally ’cause I knew one Zionist-lover would come to the defense of another. You fvcking jiyalas are so fvcking predictable.
)
And now you are switching to weapons again and going for the “Punjabi conspiracy” race card. Brilliant! Jeeyay Sindh!!!
@awais
u sound like an irsaeli jayala
@AwaisZiojala
“Agitations in Faisalabad, Sargodha, Gujernwala, and Lahore.
while there is same load shedding in Multan, Karachi, Hyderabad, Pindi, Peshawer, Quetta, GD Khan, Bahawlpur, Interior Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP. Why people are not doing the same there.”
Multan protests over load shedding
Violent Protest Over Power Cuts in Multan
Karachi bursts into protest on power outage
Hyderabad people protest on power outages
Protest against gas load-shedding in Rawalpindi
Peshawar Regi residents protest against load shedding
DG Khan: Public anger boils over power outages
NWFP protests load shedding
Baluchistan Protests and Hunger Strikes
Another “theory” of yours bites the dust. Go Zion!
How do I spell MORON? A W A I S
Wind and solar energy is required but we will need diesel for trucks for logistics.
PPP is planning a project in Zahidan , Iran. where it will be safe and transmitt electricity for Pakistan.
We can and should make few more chinese nuclear power stations.
Should not build huge dams, especially controversial ones like Kala Bagh dam.
And each less educated rural family in Pakistan should be given a battery powered with a laptop connected to internet.
This is the future. This will solve our prolems to education more than we ever dreamnt off.
innovative ideas will only work for developing countries. no need to invest too much on schools anyomre, building schools is an old idea, but more efforts needed to built community centers etc.
all electronics should come with a cranker.
and small solar plates like we see on our calculators.
rechargeable electric motor cycles.
but in pakistan it is deliberately avoided because who gonna buy suzuki cars and petrols then.
another only thing that would help is that china makes all of this at a very low cost.
and import duties on allchinese products should be removed. to help our ordinary people of Pakistan.
laptop for children
http://laptop.org/en/participate/give-one-get-one.shtml
our favourite minister Jataoi is back in sayasi loog and he is saying ” hum log bijli bilkul khatam kar dein gay”
what a great outspoken bold minister we ve got.
Couple of interesting articles on solar panel and its use ..
http://www.heatmyhome.co.uk/solar-panels.htm
http://www.squidoo.com/reviewearth4energy
There will always be aristocracy of INTELLECT.
I am writing this comment with no prejudice and no malice towards any political movement or party.
By the very definition democratic elections in a country such as Pakistan or India will bring to power those that can get the maximum number of votes. Since most of the public is ignorant, un educated- it is not shocking that you have the eresults you do have. I shall describe the situation in India- so I will not be hurting anyone’s feelings.
Just imagine Mayawati is in power in U.P. a state of over 100 million people. Now to expect her to bring forth thoughtful, creative and intellectual changes which will improve the living and working conditions of the people of U.P. is to expect a common labourer be able to give a lecture on the theory of relativity. No wonder U.P. is one of the most backward state in the Indian Union .
The changes in India to-day which has made India a technology super power to-day were put in place in 1947 to 1955 by Nehru and his govt.
If we wish to have ample amount of energy for use- we need to have someone who thinks about it and gets creative and thoughtful people who can put the ideas into practice . That requires knowledge, time and effort by educated intelligent people .
If the purpose of the less than intelligent leaders is to remain in power and get rich by stealing the people’s wealth- then pray how are we going to have progress in getting ample amounts of energy over a long period of time continuously.
Now let us look at the present situation in Pakistan-
Since you have had an election which has brought to power ” Mayawati” like leaders- their ideas about solving the energy problem is to buy a solution from afar – because there is money in it for them.
Recently I was made aware of a situation-
A businessman went to China where they have developed a water heater using Solar Heat and he was able to get rights to manyfacture this heater in Pakistan. All contracts etc were signed and when he returned to Pakistan and tried to get the various permits and liscences- he was informed that it was against the law to build such solar heaters in Pakistan. This happened during this democratic govt. Obviously the people who build the current gas heaters for water have more influence . In a thoughtful administration- someone would have considered the benefits of such a device and it’s effect on the energy situation in the country.
We cannot built car’s engines.
We cannot built micro turbines to generate electricity .And everyone says we do not have this technology and that technology .
But on the other hand we can built Tanks and missiles and of course nuclear bombs. That simply means that the talent and know how is available but direction and leadership is missing or absent.
So where will we find the leadership that will have the foresight to plan for the next 50 years-
leadership that will create the conditions for intelligent and creative thoughtful young men and women to learn and develope the infra structure which will and can make the country self sufficient.
Well, such leadership is not available for sale in the bazaar or the shopping mall of the world. As it is – we are selling and exporting the best commodity we have- smart kids to the west and the rest of the world. And these same kids do very well in the west.
Ghost of TK has a valid point about his pet peeve- EDUCATION but education has to start to-day to make a difference in 20 years . And what do we do while we wait ?
Well -perhaps hope that Zardari and Co : have some sudden desire to make themselves IMMORTAL by doing the right things !
Is it too much to ask-
@moderator
This is a good change to see someone asks about people views and ideas. Thanks for giving the opportunity and at least someone is leading to the right track.
“if you are satisfied with the performance of government in solving the crisis?”
>>no sane living being would agree, if I say we have not given enough time to show the performance. I think the policies are same with different face/shape but it has shown laid back responses to the emergencies that we are going thru. There is no sense of emergency in the mind of any responsible one.
“Please share your viws on the energy crisis in Pakistan.”
>>In my views, we lack a planning in every aspect of Pakistan growth. We introduced CNG without any planning or even any oversight to keep the balance in the market. Now, we ended up with load-shading the gas as well. we can’t eat without a gas or do any productivity without an electric. Let alone water, it is another necessity being overlooked. We have all resources but without a design, plan, or development. It is true for all areas of interest in Pakistan.
“Please discuss who do you believe is responsible for the crisis”
>> In my view, people are more responsible than our leadership. We have Kunda to steal the electric in all over Pakistan or tampering the meter to reduce the bill. It is ok if we steal but it’s not ok to take 10% commission. Both are wrong. I think it’ll be fun watching if we give contract to so-called Taliban shooting down all KUNDAS from all over Pakistan… hahaha. We need an emergency task force to do that as high priority. First offence is no penalty. On second offence to catch with KUNDA, fine Rs25000 with 3months jail time. Sorry, I have to turn blind for our elite class or it’ll be cruelty to a living being as rest are just the dirt.
What should be the solution?
>>In my view, we begin with:
A) Long term development to deal with energy crisis:
1.Create Mass Transit in all major cities with trains, subways, or some doable mass transit for Pakistan.
2.Locate/Relocate Office buildings and shopping malls across the town near communities which will encourage walking or cycling to work/shopping. It will help eliminate traffic buildups on roads and burn less resources/pollutions.
3.Build extra lanes on major roads for shared-ride traffics to go to work or businesses. It will also encourage people to share ride and go to work faster burn less gas/patrol/less pollutions.
B) Short term or immediate steps to tackle the current energy crisis:
1.While we work on the above long term targets, we must bring awareness to the masses thru all means available.
2.Courtesy messages should be sent thru all online/offline media
3.Send mandates to all businesses to keep usage at must-have to run a business and lights off during after hours.
4.Embrace a shorter working week of 4days.
5.Replace and begin using energy saver as available.
6.Allow shops to begin a day early but close at sunsets
7.All marriage halls should be closed by sunsets meaning all marriages needs to be conducted before sunsets.
8.We need a good control on TV sitcoms/shows/program as millions of people watch. if we control the hours of operations and turn off at one point, we’ll have all TVs shutdown by certain time and save a lot of resources.
C) We as people of Pakistan seem to be duped or may be just acting like a dumb in front of whole world. I think several comments have been repeated enough about us as nation. Finger pointing is no more an option for us to bring a change. We all have to wake up and take a stand for our rights. We don’t need a bloody revolution to just wake up for the rights. We as people are responsible and so far we have not shown any wishes to bring change. We still complain and complain and do nothing about it. We don’t need a rally to begin with. Electronic means are enough to shake them down. Re-election would not bring any change as well. It is the people need to be changed to bring a change in leadership. Current parties are not viable to bring any change. Both major parties are ready to take on each other as they show hungry for power and revenge. It only requires a team of dedicated, sincere, and honest citizen like you and me to stand united to the cause. All conspiracies end where people stand united. There is more to be said but time is short for now.
@ali4asat:
At least Jataoi is telling the truth when he says ” hum log bijli bilkul khatam kar dein gay”
here is a simple solution for education for Pakistani children avoids the load sheading, altogether.
http://laptop.org/en/vision/index.shtml
http://www.flickr.com/photos/olpc/3082411983/in/set-72157610664325821/
http://flickr.com/photos/olpc/3011271194/in/set-72157608738164746/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/olpc/3145038187/
whoever is in a position to help or promote this project should try to promote this idea for our pakistani children. if this goes through it will be a dream come true for Pakistan InshaAllah.
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/PAKISTAN
@ Awais
You look very reasonable in discussion with other ( Ghost nota and others). After 60 years we have not learned a bit, we call every one who talks / speaks truth and with reasonability an agent of India and Israel.
There were times when Jamiti types use to call people with knowledge, wisdom and reasonability Russian agents.
Well done Awais keep it up.
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Further more all so called patriots ( muhib i watan) are real agents.
We need to come out of this Indian and Israel Phobia as Zardari rightly said ” India is no threat to Pakistan”.
Our real enemies are those who are funding and supporting every type of terrorism in the name of Jihad and Talibinazation, also all those who are supporting those so called talibans whether in politics or in military.
I think this big task of energy crisis can only be handel by persons like Dr.Qadeer. call him seek mercy to him ask forgiveness to him request him to help the country. I am sure even its not his field he will make it happen.We have sun light , we have biggest resvoires of coal, we have rivers, but we have PPP’s govt.
@AwaisStein, the “victim”
“they started deleting my threads in order to stop my saying what i believe in. ”
Which ones? Seeing the amount of pure sh!t of yours that has gotten through, I seriously doubt it (If some were deleted they probably had to do with repetition i.e. spamming)
What is also interesting is you did not reply to my post above. Is it cause it proved you are full of cr@p?
Here’s another link from today’s paper to add to my post above:
Protests against power, gas outages rock country
Note the work “country”. But I know you are going to stick with your “PML-N Conspiracy” theory from the PPP playbook (Do you have any independent thought or you just follow PPP or Zionist guides for the Zioyalas?)
@dara, no surprise you finding @Awaiswitz “reasonalble”…
What is interesting to me is where this mutual admiration between Zionists and Jiyalas comes from. Can anyone answer me on this?
What is also interesting is Raja Perwaiz one the one hand blaming the protests against load-shedding a “conspiracy” and on the other stating “load-shedding to be halved in 24-hours”.
If it could be halved so easily and quickly then why wasn’t it done sooner? No one was stopping them so why let it come to this? That to me seems more of a conspiracy on PPP’s part than otherwise…
@nota
‘What is interesting to me is where this mutual admiration between Zionists and Jiyalas comes from. Can anyone answer me on this’
jamati bhi…jiyala bhi…aur jew se bar kar yehudi bhi…batao mein kaun hoon?
hint: mosque and military
@kafka8
“hint: mosque and military”
WTF? Interesting…Can I have some more ‘hints’ please? Rather can you spell it out for me?
@nota: I think @kafka8 is onto something… I was thinking along the same lines
@Those are not “parallel” lines now are they?
Do clue me in….
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/events/index.cfm?fa=eventdetail&id=797
Tee Hee!
Zardari’s gift for our nation: Power crisis
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5OcBUj-BeTM
For @Avi Steinmann, with love:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj39Py-shOA
I’m sure you and your friends hate Edward Said’s guts. Keep on.
Israel is a sterile child. Israel will have to vanish from the pages of History. Not for some religious reasons, but simply because it’s un-tenable, and a nation simply cannot exist the way medinat yisrael is trying to exist.
The 3rd genearation is unwilling to fight the wars of expansion and mass-mrrder within the boundaries of “davidian” land stolen from rightful citizens the Palestinians. Just imagine what the 4th and 5th generations fattened up on Palestinian water and sugary coca-cola will do?
You demoralize your own nation every time you commit these genocidal acts of brutality against the Palestinians the rightful inhabitants of the land you stole.
Ham to yaheiN haiN bhai.. Ham yahaN 1400 saal say thay aur haiN. Aur ham hi yahiN raheNgay.
Jerusalem belongs to those who can keep it.
Promise.
xoxo
TK
@nota,
You are right on.
Pervaiz Ashraf today cried against “public discrimination” against PPP saying that no one protested against load-shedding during Mush era, but they are protesting now.
Instead of such childish rhetoric PPP should be honest with the people. They should describe the energy crsis to the people and then explain their rescue plan. If the leadership is honest and sincere people will respond positively.
But unfortunately the PPP leaders are too busy plundering. Plus this government has no credibility at all, Zardari has said that his word of mouth as good as anyone’s rear-end emission. How can anyone trust him?
Hi Kruman,
I don’t think they are plundering with the public money. They are just not competent enough to demonstrate the urgency needed to resolve these issues.
Pervaiz Ashraf’s protest about public demonstrations does not make any sense. Several of government spokespersons made repeated statements that they got votes in the name of public welfare and not for strengthening judiciary. Now they can’t run away from that.
Best regards,
NSE
Hi Mansoor Chaudhry,
I think it is time that we should get a little honest with ourselves. All along the Zia’s era, we were indoctrinated that Pakistan was the best country in the world, rich in resources, that it’s government had always been working for the benefit of the people.
The truth is that our rivers are no longer carrying enough water to sustain power production, and cultivation for a population in excess of 160 million. To make things worse, our polygamist mullahs have been advocating high reproduction rates by setting bad examples. Consequently, Pakistani males turned the women into reproduction machines. Now they should seriously start thinking about curtailing the population growth rates, if we don’t want Pakistan to cripple under our own weight.
Best regards,
NSE
NS EX
totally in agreement with you
The current energy crises I must say there is only and only 1 reason.
PRIVATIZATION
There are 3 types of properties in the world.
1. Private (give right to any one)
2. public (can’t give to any one) only for public use (like Energy, dam, parks. Etc.)
3. Govt (for Govt use)
Privatization means you are giving this property in one hand, First of all building these energy sources like dams and others; there is only 1 motive to serve people.
However when we give ownership to one person, (one company). The actual objective die. And one person has only one thing in mind that is to take as much benefits as much he can. So serving people is no objective for him.
He can increase prises any time he wants. He can increase or decrease production depends how much profit he can make.
If we see the current crises in Pakistan,
We can see that previous Govt privatize the public property like Energy, build their own energy powers units sold to 1 hand (company) and then buying same from that company, WOW.
As a result the person who is now owner it’s up to him, he bought this property so that he can enjoy max benefits from it. As currently Pakistan Govt is not paying to these companies that are why these companies are not able to produce Electricity.
If we see from our faith (Islam), Islam does not allow privatizing the public property, and it called Haram (as Alcohol is haram, as Zina is haram etc).
As we all know that in Medina When a Well was owned by a Jew and our prophet (PBUH). Asked any one to buy this well and give to all people of Medina, And Hazrat Usman (Razi allah tala annaha) bought this and gave to all people.
Infect,
our prophet (PBUH) said, that
“”Fire, Water and Fields are for Ummah””
What does it means actually that a Govt can’t privatize or give ownership of the public property to one person or company. And privatization of the public property is not allowed in Islam.
As a Muslim we all believe that God has provided every solution in Islam, and we must consult Islam at any cost, at any level, and yes Islam said that we can’t make a public property to a private property. Very simple.
As we can see in Europe there are no of companies increases their bills for Gas and electric when Oil prices were all time high (140 USD),
But they did not decrease their energy prices after the Oil prices all time low now (40 USD).
The reason is this that Govt has not control on it. And also these companies are looking to get maximum profit. They are not here to serve the people. While the major objective of these things to serve the people.
On top of it, the sources we are using to produce Energy is also expensive, not like water, air, and coal (remember Pakistan has 5th largest Coal) in the world.
CONCLUSION:
Oh Muslims Ummaha of Pakistan,
We must understand that, this current system (democracy or Dictatorship) does not give any thing to us. Apart from after 1 crises to another, because our rulers weather there is a democratic or Dictator (remember Dictatorship can’t not also run with the help of these politician,). Do what ever they want, mould man made rule for the sake of their benefits. Bringing Ummah of Pakistan to their knees so that we can slave to USA and other kufar State.
There is only one solution, Reject this Kufar System, and bring back Islamic systems (khilafah). Which only rule by God? There is only one way to save our self from one crisis to another.
@ mm76
i strongly support ur comment .
Just remember this picture, when u think u can shake hands with a white man.
you might as well say good by to ur hand.
even if you are secular and not a islamist.
http://www.horsesass.org/downloads/rumsfeld-saddam.jpg
they are after ur natural resources.
Slashdot article on distributed energy generation with smaller units installed at consumer premises.
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09%2F01%2F05%2F1954234&from=rss
Slashdot on Monday January 05, @03:59PM
=========================
“The Star reports about a new power generation model using smaller distributed power generators located closer to the consumer. This saves money on power generation lines and creates an infrastructure that can be more easily expanded with smaller incremental steps, compared to bigger centralized power generation projects. The generators in line for this are green sources, but Hyperion Power Generation, NuScale, Adams Atomic Engines (and some other companies) are offering small nuclear reactors to plug into this type of infrastructure. The generator from Hyperion is about the size of a garden shed, and uses older technology that is not capable of creating nuclear warheads, and supposedly self-regulating so it won’t go critical. They envision burying reactors near the consumers for 5-10 years, digging them back up and recycling them. Since they are so low maintenance and self-contained, they are calling them nuclear batteries.”
@MTC
(pejapun intended)….
Wow …. what will happen to our Bum then if we used all our uraaanium for lighting the blub ….
By the way we are talking here “home grown solutions” and not the solution is discovered/invented via “biased analysis” …
@Peja
Skipping your medication, are you Peja? Naughty! Naughty!
You keep using the word ‘pun’. I do not think it means what you think it means
This is Peja and puns. Puns and Peja. WATCH IT.
@MTC: hahahaha! I’m still laughing at the second video! I think you nailed the situation right there!
Oh yes I am very much satisfied with the performance of PPP Government and most horrorable Asif Zardari….. My dear countrymen as we are all Muslims and believe in life after death so these are the MOCK EXAMS for hell. We did witness heaven or atleast our great grand parents did so now you can be well aware or will have experience what hell is going to be like…
http://www.energybulletin.net/node/883
sab se pahle tou i believe kah current officials jhoot bol rahe hain coz inhoon nai khud aesa keya kiya hai kah jis se 2009 dec tak loadshedding khatam hojaye gi? they claim kah hum rentals plants laa rahe hain magar inhoon nai khud tou koi bhi installation start nahin ki? aur is news clip kah hisab se pata chalta hai kah last years main khuch plants lage hain jo 2009 aur 2010 main complete hongay jis ka credit current gov le li gi…aur 2nd baat kah yeh sab units full functional hi nahin hain its means kah loog ziada se ziada gass ya phir patrol ya diesel use kareen jis main is time gov patrol par about 30rs tax aur diesel par 20 rs tax le rahe hai!!
I’m so sorry people but all of you are only criticizing and complaining about the past and current governments which is not doing anyone any good. Instead of complaining why can we the public of pakistan take the matters in our own hands and fix our country. Load shedding is the biggest hurdle towards success of our country. How can we move forward with technology or try to eliminate poverty from this country when there is no energy available. Why is it that india can have huge amounts of investments from indians abroad as well as other governments when pakistan has the toughest import laws and rediculous tarrifs why are we the people of pakistan letting this go on and on. I live in the US however I spent eight months in pakistan in 2008 and seriously the gap between the haves and have nots is so huge and educations is only available to army ass##### and not the general public. Instead of working on the infrastructure of the country we are more focused on having more guns than india. It is time for the new generation to wake up and realize that if we don’t do something now we might not have a pakistan tommorow we need new ideas. we need to attract foreign investment. Ever since my return from pakistan I can think of nothing else but pakistan and how to make the lives of the everyday people better in the country. Why do we keep electing people who have their bank accounts in other countries and investments are made by these asses outside the country everyone just wants to steal from pakistan and no one wants to make it better. Please have a voice in the future of pakistan. rise up people and get some guts or atlease give someone else a chance instead of electing the same corrupt leaders back into the offices. Electricity is not that hard to produce and distribute.
this goes for “AWAIS”
Dude you have come up with very valid points but it seems u have some problem with ppl having cars
.Shortage of gas is not at all because of CNG sector as a whole consumes less than 6 percent of the total gas output.
Do u think
cutting down 6 percent consumption will actually make the industry face no shortage of gas at all.
CNG has resulted in savings of more than $250 million per annum of foreign exchange for Pakistan.
The investments of more than Rs60 billion of middle and lower middle class people, who converted their vehicles to use cheap and environment-friendly CNG, would go to waste.
This will create unemployment and will effect the banking sector too who has taken exposure in financing CNG pumps.
My suggestion is
1) Get the circular railway system going in Karachi.
2) If people have an idea how to come up with a cheap solar panel or a way to produce electricity at home try educating everyone so that we all can give it a try.If successful the rest will follow.
Don’t be furious on politician or army cause they r there cause educated people prefer to go abroad or be an engineer,doctor,banker and never thought of forming an alliance with each other to form a political party which is loyal to the motherland.
stop the blame game lets try to come up with solutions not suggestions.
!!! Solution to Pakistan’s Energy Crisis !!!
After the recent award of highest Pakistani civilian awards to Boucher and Biden, comes the sensationalist new technology to generate free and renewable energy.
Proposed plans for the Power Plant.
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