Contributed by Emergency Mailing List
The media has been repeatedly portraying Kayani is independent and patriotic and giving the false notion that Army is not helping Zardari. Here is undeniable evidence of Kayani’s involvement in politics and his interest in not letting the Chief Justice restored:
1) Kayani was the chief negotiator for the NRO from Musharraf’s team – which is the source of the major problems in Pakistan. Kayani had met Benazir and Rehman Malik and other in connection with NRO. If he was not involved in politics, why was he negotiating the NRO.
2) Kayani was the ISI head when the missing people issue started. The families of the missing people claim that the ISI and MI picked their family members up. If Kayani was not involved in politics why did he not stop this mass crime against humanity. If Kayani is not involved in politics, why is he not telling the location of the missing people of Pakistan.
3) There were strict instructions to Dogar not to take up any missing people case. Why is that the case? This is simply because if the missing people case comes up, then Kayani will be in trouble, because of his involvement in this issue. If Kayani did not have control of that issue then, he has control today and can bring the missing people to courts to have their crimes proven. However that, he will not do, since it will prove his unconstitutional acts.
4) Kayani had fully deployed ISI to harrass and arrest activists, lawyers and civil society members to stop protests against Martial Law. There is documented evidence of students being harassed by ISI officials, of ISI officers tracking down ordinary citizens that has been repeatedly sent on this list.
5) Days before the Long March, pro judiciary workers have been threatened from Army Numbers which are prevented from appearing on CLI. Many have even openly claimed that they are from ISI. If Army is not involved in politics why is it threatening the students today?
The army is obeying unconstitutional orders of Zardari to enforce a predatory, tyrannical state by allowing its Rangers to be part of the crack down.
When ISPR spokesman was contacted he said ARMY was only doing its job. What rubbish?
If that is the case then can Zardari call the Rangers to count all the money he has stolen? Can Rehman Malik call the SSG to wash the blood off the streets he is about to spill? The army must follow only constitutional orders, not unconstitutional ones. The requisition to call army for arresting people without charges is against the constitution of Pakistan and against Human Rights everywhere.
By supporting Zardari, the Army has proven that it is YET AGAIN against the people of Pakistan and is in favor of NRO and against independence of judiciary.
Does a bear sh!t in the woods?
Kayani was also accompanying Moshe when he summoned CJ and asked him to resign. But following was reported about him regarding this incident.
Those who know General Kayani described him as a gentleman soldier. One of them mentioned two instances as evidence that the new Army chief was a professional soldier and a gentleman.
Quoting lawyers, he said the deposed Chief Justice Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry told them that General Kayani didn’t utter a word when he was summoned to President General Musharraf’s Camp Office in Rawalpindi on March 9 and asked to resign or face a presidential reference.
General Kayani remained quiet while the other generals reportedly took part in the conversation. The other instance was that General Kayani, as the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) chief at the time, didn’t give any affidavit against Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry in the Supreme Court while other government functionaries close to President Musharraf promptly submitted affidavits in support of the presidential reference.
It has to do something with 116th Corps Commander’s Conference which was held on 5/3, they might have decided to align with Ibne-Iblees. I bet if God forbid something happens during long march, ppp would put blame on agencies, Ibne-Iblees would hit 2 birds with one stone, it is a win win situation for Ibne iblees.
One FACT must be highlighted, Army is not siding with Zardari, it is simply obeying the orders of an ELECTED GOVERNMENT
The question to be asked is, what do we want ARMY to do? disobey Government orders and then be blamed for yet another coup? or this could possible create disharmony with-in the ranks of the Armed Forces resulting in an internal mutiny of sorts? Knowing Zardari & co they wouldn’t think twice before resorting to dirty tactics for creating divisions with-in the Army for their personal gains and this would have dissastrous consequences.
Armed Forces should follow Government Orders if they are asked to deploy but clearly formulate their own strategy for dealing with the protestors i.e. Army must not DIRECTLY engage the protestors and remain confined to key strategic places with-in the cities for security reasons only.
A collission between the Protestors in the long march and ARMY must be avoided at all costs I hope better sense prevails amonst the Army Top Brass.
This Article seems to have been written out of sincerity but also sheer frustration, I sympathize with the writer but do not agree with it.
there are no signs of frustration at all
thats a very good suggested strategy
and thats what security forces should do
and the protestors should also behave and keep in mind that the whole world is watching
@ hadi26
why do ya talk like a newly born baby…. hahahaha
tryin to catch fish out of pee.
Why this fuckin 111 brigade resides within the boundaries of the capital. Imagine the difficulties dictators would have been confronted if 111 were not stationed in the capital.
“1) Kayani was the chief negotiator for the NRO from Musharraf’s team”
And I am sure he offered — and got — guarantees too to follow the script…
@Parrhesia: “Why this fuckin 111 brigade resides within the boundaries of the capital.”
within capital? it is literally stationed between the parliament and prime-ministers house. I kid you not. Loot at google maps.
It is called “A GUN to your Head” ..
wait … wait… It’s actually called “YOUR gun to YOUR head” hahaha!
stop stop stop!!!
in western countries if any person has a court judgment, it would be imposible for him to get an ordinary job in a small local company
but in pakistan the situation is worse than vice versa
because you need a criminal record to become a politician,
or any other post of authority
implementation is nowhere
because mot of people are not aware of law
once we educate and create awareness among our people
every problem would be solved automatically one after the other
a country with a literacy rate like us would never be able to
choose competent leaders
our political leaders are not aware of the law
thats why they make tupid decisions and conflicts arise
@khurram shah
“you need a criminal record to become a politician, or any other post of authority”
Didn’t our president say he only trusts those who have spent time in jail “because you learn a lot there”. So you are right. It is a prerequisite these days.
stop blaming the leaders
we have been doing this for 62 years
we need to change ourselves
so we get good leaders
we get rid of one leader and bring the one thats even worse
we bring them into rule
we should blame ourself
if zerdari goes, we will bring shareefs
then what??????????????????????????
we need to deal with the root causes
if u cut a tree from the top, it will grow again
and the root cause is awareness amongst masses
@ khurram shah
Leaders produce Nations or Nations produce Leaders? The relationship cant be so for understood. Different nations showed different models. Its like the myth of chicken and egg. Which came first?
However it can be shown that many leaders transform their illiterate n UNAWARE nations into modern societies. China, Japan, Germany, South Korea, Singapur are recent examples.
So at this critical moment of our national life, lets not distract the attention of the masses that they are WRONG and alla balla. Lets support this Long March
After reading some of the comments here, can’t really blame the politicians of this country for diverting from genuine issues and focussing on petty insinuations, after all they are Pakistanis too
(A very pointed remark aimed at those with the courage to look inward and correct the hypocricies with-in before embarking on a crusade to correct the world)
Go Long March Go
Khurram Shah,
your argument is very old ” no soo man tail ho ga na radha nachi gee”.
This argument has been used over and over and most of the time it is the favorite of those who do not want change in statuesque. Tell me one thing when revolution come do all the people come to the conclusion that system should be changed no, it is always the few who lead. And you might ask why it is not happened yet, Leaders born every day but hidden hand kills them before they can lead. That is the reason we are waiting for one, but some times “Musa firon kei aangan mein jwan hota hei” .
Time is come no body could stop it. Pakistan InshaAllah will be a state where there will be a rule of law. And only criminals should worry it is a time for them to make arrangements overseas so that they have some place to run
There is no doubt about a deliberate attempt in the media to project the COAS as someone with integrity. However, consider these:
1. The ’strategic relationship’ between the Pakistani Military and the Pentagon (read US Military Industrial Complex) ever since SEATO. The ’screeing meetings’ of prospective Military Services Cheifs and ISI chiefs with CENTCOM Commander is where you can start.
2. Pakistani generals, US agencies and global drug trade: Need one say more?
3. Anyone having first hand information about the situation in FATA, ask the locals about the war there. For most, its a drama by the Pakistani agencies and army. If you stay in one of the troubled spot long enough, you may see for yourself the “Taliban” and army convoys crossing paths without any ‘mishap’. US-Baitullah romance is already known.
Lessons to learn:
The Pakistani generals as well as the Military Industrial Complex of USA both have their interests in keeping the war “warm”. Its called “REAL POLITIK”. What interests them is the flow of tax payers money, war and drug profiteering and strategic positioning across vital energy supply lines.
As for us poor fellas, unfortunately we have to look beyond Kiyani for our Massiah as there is no reason or evidence to suggest that our generals are sympathetic towards our miseries. Remember illegal renditions to keep your mind clear of the myths about a general with integrity. Zardari will get as much support as possible but if he fails to control, the image buildup of his possible successor (Kiyani) is what you are seeing. Thats contingency plan for you.
Anyone who thinks that our Army is independent is sadly mistaken. The Pakistan Army is the most corrupt army in the world who can kill their own people to satisfy the demand of other nation. There is no way to change the pattern unless we see a revolution like Iran. What is real scary that in case of war these morally and mentallycorrupt Generals instead of fighting will help the enemy to occupy just like Saddam’s general did in Iraq. Then it will be left to the people to fight the war.
people of pakistan always wanted their leaders to work for their welfare
but the governments work for the welfare of america cause they fear that
they wouldnt be able to run government without america
dont you remember what americans siad to musharraf
when he hesitated to give base for attack on afghanistan
was it a wrong decision or a coward decision or a right decision
a muslim country could not become the ally of u.s
but we are
we need to decide first whether we are american allies or muslims
muslims? ok zerdari then stop listening to america otherwise
u will be ruled out again
the problem for zerdari is that if he doesnt listen to america
america would kill him
and if he listens to america he will be ruled out by muslim pakistanis
i think his life is more important for him
so how could he oppose america
Pak army with Gaddari agents of american/servent of usa, also they are guard of american servent, and mediator in the past at the time of NRO.
u will see Gaddari give them plots within 3 months to LT.con to all generals. and they are bekay persons. CHOR KA BHAI GANTI CHOR.
dID U SEE ANY ARMY ALL OVER THE WORLD WHO KILLED THEIR CITIZEN ( LIKE SWAT/ BAJOR AND FATA AREA) THEY GET SALARY FM USA AND THEY WORK AS PER INSTRUCTION.
NOW NEW ORDER TO THEM SUPPORT GADDARI U WILL GET GOOD SALARYSO THEY WILL DO IT. AND ALL THE RIGHTIST PEOPLE TO BE ARREST AND PUT BEHIND THE BAR.
THIS IS OVER COVER STORY
This looks like another Indian propaganda to inflict hatred of our innocent paki brothers to revolt against the Pakistan army. Piece of crap article, Please refrain from this rumor mill.
So that means Gen Kiyani was the third person whom Justice Chaudry announced to name on Nov 3, 2008 in Rawalpindi but later choose not to. The other two were Gen Mush and Shortcut Aziz.
But then why single out Kiyani, when Nov 3,2007 actions were approved by all the Corps Commanders. Thats why I believe the “asli tay waDa dharna” has to take place right across the mall road in Rawalpindi.
@
Bhoot
r u zaid hamid????
Totally agree with this article..Kiyani was made COAS on the will of USA, he is their man in Pakistan alongwith Zardari
Na-Pak Army is a crime partner alongwith politicians
This seems that there is no fault of Politicians but ‘Establishment’ and … people are concerned…
We believe on Allah and his Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)…
“May Allah save us and our children with malice of non-believers”. (Ameen!)
Really bad
but hopefully Iftikhar chaudry will be successful, be cool and wait the lenghty time will not dilute the importance but will be helpful for the better leadership of two Victims (Shehbaz & Iftikhar ) and the popularity will be increased.
as for as the Judges & People lawyer forum is concerned these are Unveiled Faces.
(Shehbaz & Iftikhar ) will be back soon INSHA ALLAH
I for one agree with hadi26, in that I do not agree with the main claim in this article that the army will side with Zardari.
There is truth in many arguments to the contrary in the article (as well as in the comments), but it’s a changed country with realities that have also changed for ever.
I will place my bets on the army adapting to the altered realities and not getting caught out wondering, “who moved my cheese?”.
One of the major root cause of current unrest in our beloved Country is right now only Gen. KIYANI who was offered by CIA along with other various American Agencies & reputable US State Depts., — GIANT gifts as reliable sources said and published in NY Times just 7/8 months ago. If you people of this forum may remember so.
Walah Alam Bisawab whether these above mentioned GIFTS were accepted by this BAIHISS Kiyani or not this is point to ponder?
WHY HE IS BAIHISS INSAN Kiyani AS HE NEVER DARING TO TELL AMERICANS THAT —droned/missile attacks are not allowed on our own MUSLIMS!? Therefore logically he might have accepted the same offered gifts by Americans.
@ fanaticmulla:
Well Mr. Fanatic mulla, al these stated facts are supposedly imagination of the people. Very Similar to something i can “assume” from your name that you are a fanatic. However that won’t necessary hold true. It would just be an assumption.
All these things which people are talking are assumptions as well. He might be there for very different reasons as well. He himself has never stated that he is biased. And till now he has kept his promise. Being the ISI chief one has to be present in many occasions. That doesn’t imply what he is like.
Anyways, you can assume whatever you want. I just told my opinion & i certainly hope you have the tolerance and capacity to understand me
[...] with our ever capable police i hardly see anything peaceful coming in lawyers way especially when establishment is itself CORRUPTED. While gov shakes hands with MILITANTs from swat, its afraid of few thousand [...]
[img]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00652/news-graphics-2007-_652570a.jpg[/img]
Same $#!T, Different @$$ H0L3
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00652/news-graphics-2007-_652570a.jpg
Enough is enough, I just absolutely refuse to be treated as an insignificant porcelain by these baboons on ego trip who are hell-bent to pork tiny swords on their shoulders into non-combatants.
Why don’t we all just absolutely refuse to pay our income tax (i.e if you belong to middle class) unless our govt disarms our good for nothing army. All the officers could get jobs as PT instructors, English teachers, or work as estate agents after all they have been at it for 30 odd years. What’s the point of spending more than half of your fiscal budget on a group of people who have showed their impotence in dropping a few food parcels into our own borders let alone dropping thousands of troops into enemy territory?
What a preposterous idea you might say, but hang on a minute look at the cleansing effect it will have on our mental and political state. Above anything else WHO do we have to fight? For WHAT? And for the sake of everything that is holy HOW?
Military hardware has already passed its use by date, only viable option of getting additional sophisticated, state of the art anything require Mr Dentonic to seduce Hilary which is highly unlikely as she is into punk rock. Lets say after a Mohawk and a few tattoos later we manage to get the F16’s chances are they will be from the Lockheed regional supply office in India, with a couple of computer chips missing. So what’s the point?
Think about it, no more business of blaming agencies for clogging our drains, more funds for our politicians to embezzle, and just think about the fun we can have by holding yearly elections. Just bloody dismantle the damn thing, sell the nukes, sell the army barracks. I want healthcare, I want running water, I want electricity, I want decent jobs for my county men, I want my basic rights……the terrorism bit…just let US sort it out itself, they created the mess in the first place, so they should be the ones to clear up….we are going to DO MORE….but chances are in return they are going to “do us more”.
Now at this point my innocent fellow Zaid hamids would be thinking, hang on a minute what if India attacks? My answer to them would be : so be it….but until then I want some decent life……and no harassment from these Fuc***s
go ARMY go….
go ARMY go….
[...] I guess. Media is under threat as earlier it was mentioned in recent newspapers. And since GHQ is in full support to the civilian dictator, I also pray that Zardari continue to make mistakes like these so his exit come as fast as his [...]
[...] I guess. Media is under threat as earlier it was mentioned in recent newspapers. And since GHQ is in full support to the civilian dictator, I hope that Zardari continue to make mistakes like these so his exit come as fast as his spiritual [...]
if you look at the long march in depth then its NOT for the restoration of the judges (54 out of 60 are in office 3 retired) it is all about 3 judges who are just as much PCO judges as all the others.Stop kidding yourselves on , in any democracy the majority rule is the Law,like it or not it is the truth.
Dont forget in the Last Nawaz Govt he paid for the personal shopping trips of a Supreme court judge overseas on his credit card then got caught, have you ever questioned that,or does the search for justice not stretch that back.
the COD clearly says WE WILL NOT ACCEPT ANY PCO JUDGES FROM ANY ERA, but once the Late Benizir ( may ALLAH grant her peace) arrived in Pakistan her tone changed to WE WILL NOT ACCEPT ANY NEW PCO JUDGES so even great Leaders try to FOOL the people
as i said if you look at the issue in depth, STOP FUELING THIS FIRE AND STAND FOR THE TRUTH.
IF WE DONT THEN JUST WATCH BACK AND SEE PAKISTAN BURN AND WE HAVE ONLY OURSELVES TO BLAME!!
@parvezuk,
Please get your facts straight. The COD says that:
The panel that appoints Judges will not contain PCO judges. Judiciary can still have PCO judges. That panel will also have the elected leader of lawyers.
Now lets say we implement COD, then we will have Justice Saeeduzzaman Siddiqui and Wajiuddin Ahmed as judges in the Panel along with Ali Ahmed Kurd.
Then if they fire all judges and reappoint them as per COD, the above panel will 100% bring Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry as the CJ.
Apologies for any disappointment.
@rasheed
“Apologies for any disappointment.”
What surprises me is why neither PML-N nor the lawyers have given this rebuttal? They always come back with the “exception” argument.
Facts Why Army Supporting Zardari. This simple established fact of the matter is:
Right After Dharna Strategy on 15/16 March, 2009 this has been revealed on those who have been remained rulers in this country such as ARMY now they have been thinking on these lines —This time ZARDARI & Co. had faced total embarrassment before the nation, it may quiet possible this nation may stand up against us in other words tomorrow is their/Army turn!
Therefore, in actual terms the Army do not wash their dirty linen again in Public of Pakistan as Gen. Musharraf had washed and ever ready to justify the same.
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