And I took it as such….so didn’t feel @dildars accusation was worth a response.

“I appreciate what you did when you refused the award from the US ambassador, but Harvard is still on. And this practically sums up our dilemma.”

Well said!

Why you always appreciate/encourage personal attacks??

@dildar
It wasn’t meant to be a personal attack. I am referring to the irony of our existance.

“I appreciate what you did when you refused the award from the US ambassador, but Harvard is still on. And this practically sums up our dilemma.”

Well said!

Why you always appreciate/encourage personal attacks??

Well said!

Its ironical that you want the lambs to have a voice, and that too against some very dogmatic wolves. At this point of our history, we can’t afford to think of ourselves as pitiable lambs. I appreciate what you did when you refused the award from the US ambassador, but Harvard is still on. And this practically sums up our dilemma.

As a nation, we never really existed in complete harmony and the present situation is a culmination of the fruition of seeds that we have been scattering all around. Lambs or no lambs, we have a history of denial and that is going to stay with us. Just read some of the comments on your article and you will reconsider your connections with this mess of a country we have become!

Our problems today have no connection with world politics; we need to educate our people, we need to ensure safety, we need to ensure some sort of economic stability, we need to ensure justice, and perhaps some room for self expression. And where exactly are we spending our energies? We are the self-proclaiomed enemies of ‘Kafirs’- and if i take Mr. Sufi (Can someone tell me what this perticular Mr. Sufi thinks of other Sufis, the real Sufis like Bullhe Shah, Data Sahib, even Shah Jamal- I can bet he has a ‘kafir’ fatwa for all of them. Onother fucking irony of our existence!) litrally, we are up against 98% population of this planet… and we are not even jews

I dont care what USA has planned for us. They are never going to be anybody’s friends. We have to get our own solution to this, and this is where i agree with you. If all comes down to shouting back at this bloody ignorance and saying NO to this tribal, uneducated, desperate, vindicative version of Islam— i am on. But, another effort is needed to o getting our targets right. If we keep justifying Taleban, and Mullahs, and Usamas, and keep hiding behind ‘drones’ and sympathies for Narco- Jehad, we are done( by the way these drones are cleaning the mess we ourselves can’t, I fear the day when there will be drones flying over Lahore in search of these idiots.. we are halpless now, we will be helpless then, again). I hope all who come from or live in Pakistan, can someday come to this understanding that they want this country to exist and prosper because having it they have a much better chance to thrive than by not having it.

This post deserved to be heading in pak politics
This one need detailed discussion

ISI pushes Nawaz Shareef to come out in the open against Zardari. He does. His tone changes over night. Previously, it was “mufahmat”, in a few hours, Nawaz found himself discussing Swiss Bank accounts, not of his, but of Zardari’s. Fazal-ur -Rehman, the Munafiq-e-Azam of Pakistan, and Asfandyar Wali go to Nawaz Shareef to ask him to soften his stance. But since Nawaz Shareef has been fingered by ISI, he will not budge. He will ride out. In the meantime, Shahbaz Shareef proclaims, “before we reach Gujranwala, the judges will be restored”. How does he know this? Did God come down from the heavens and tell him that? He knows this because he and his dear brother have been apprised by ISI that they will push the prime minister to convince the President to bow down to the public pressure. Nawaz Shareef arrives in Gujranwala, General Kiani makes a phone call to Aitzaz Ahsan, the next morning the judges are restored, Nawaz returns home triumphant and my fellow friends and bloggers on Pkpolitics hail it as a victory for the rule of law and democracy.

Unfortunately, it was not a victory for any one of the two.

ISI wanted to weaken the President. It was a game they played. I always thought Nawaz had learnt his lessons, and had decided never to dance to the tunes of people like the ISI. But I guess I can be wrong.

ISI is another story. Most Punjabis do not even realize what is going on in the FATA. Does anyone have any idea? Today I want to shake up your conscience.
It is our ISI which is so big that it has self sustaining power. When Z.A.Bhutto created it, he failed to realize that some institutions develop a form of inertia in themselves. They simply cannot be curtailed.

It was our ISI involved in Mumbai. Forgive me for admitting this. But my or your patriotism is not going to change a thing. A serving Lt. Gen. was in charge of the operation. A few days after Mumbai when there were bomb blasts in cinemas close to the Mall road, ISI people surveyed the area as usual. But in doing this, one of them uttered something to me saying, “Hinduan no maza chakha ditta he, bus vichara Ajmal Khan zakhmi bohat ho gaya si, warna sada koi bunda huth nahin si aa sakda, fool proof planning si…”. It was our ISI owning up to it.

Friends at Pkpolitics, I am not an enemy of our ISI. I am as proud of it as probably anyone else is for their being at par with RAW and Mossad. But when it creates badmash people like Bait-ul-Lah Mehsud, Maulana Fazal-ul-lah, Hafiz Saeed, and so many others, I feel that more than our politicians are guilty, it is the ISI which should be punished. Does anyone know what their people (these Maulanas) are doing in FATA, and some parts of NWFP? The Pathans never butchered people like these so-called Shariat loving Islamists. The cutting of throats was and is an Arab norm, not Pathan or Pakhtoon tradition. ISI is giving areas to these people so create a distraction for everyone. So the questions would arise, a distraction from what, right? What if I tell you that it was the ISI that took Uzbeks, Chechans and Arab fighters through Waziristan to settled areas of Pakistan like Quetta and Karachi? To protect those investments, ISI is creating a mess in FATA thinking Americans will not notice. But when Gen. Kiani visited U.S., I am told that Americans were really prepared. They had audio tapes of our army officials giving instructions to the Mumbai squad. In fact, the Americans kept the audio recordings of many individuals who were corroborating the murder of Benazir Bhutto, some of those voices were ISI men.

Someone should tell our most learned Matric pass army and ISI: If they are thinking that upon their instructions, the so-called taliban will stay on the other side of Attock bridge, they are living in a fools world. Please tell them that. These people will come to Pindi, and to lahore and to Faisalabad. To illustrate the destruction they have created, just consider this: these badmash maulanas have killed every educated moderate voice in FATA & Swat. They deliberately targetted tribal elders and one by one killed them. This ISI wanted because it does not want to face resistance from the local inhabitants. And this Sufi Muhamad and Fazlullah are all puppets and so called assets of our beloved blood sucking army.

How many wars have they won?
Are they, in any way, capable of fighting a modern war?
Are they a professional fighting force?

OR

always conniving with or against the Americans, the elected government, the judges, and the people of Pakistan.

My friends, here is the bitterest reality: the local inhabitants of FATA now want that the Talibanization should spread to Lahore and Faisalabad and to other settled areas. This they wish and hope just as Palestinians wished and hoped for death to arrive at the American shores for the American support of Isreal. Similarly, these formerly Pakistan loving people, who went to fight our war before our army into Azad Kashmir, are now hoping and praying for the Taliban to reach Lahore so people in Lahore can finally see what a great agony it is to live under these fanatics, who kill, butcher and maim.

Unfortunately, the traditional villain is playing a good role. Americans want to curtain the ISI. I too want it to be curtailed, but not by Americans, but internally. But it seems, there will never come a time when the locals (people and politicians) will be as strong as to check ISI’s powers and operations.

One of the Pashtuns told me, “I support American drone attacks”. And I was as shocked as anyone else. I ask him “why” and he goes, “listen, our people [ISI] is keeping the foreign fighters and American want to kill them, so at one time, Americans shared intelligence with ISI and gave them the whereabouts, but the Americans noticed that ISI was facilitating the escape of the foreign fighters right before the strike. So, now the Americans do not tell our army anything…thank God, Finally there is someone to check our badmaashes”.

We in the settled areas of Pakistan have made it an issue of sovereignty. I agree Americans should respect out writ within our country. But if we are keeping those very people they blame for 9/11, and our intelligence agency is instrumental in spreading the Taliban in Pakistan, and killing our own people, why should we cry? It is our job to set our house in order. If we do not, then someone else will. This time around, it is the Americans. But even if we consider that americans are doing us some good by black listing ISI, remember, Americans have a very selfish definition of “national interest”. Once they do away with ISI, the next thing they are coming after is something else. But the onus to understand this fall on our ISI. They should hand over the badmaash foreigners and stop funding the Taliban insurgency.

I urge everyone to understand that every man killed in FATA and SWAT, as long as they have CNIC and Pakistani Passport, is a Pakistani. Please consider them as such and write to every anchor, human rights activist, political leader to ask them to do something about our own mess creator, the ISI. It should have been the front line defense of our country, but considering Taliban to be an asset is not a responsible mindset.

Do you know why Anfandyar Wali was attacked? Because he dared to say openly that ISI should stop this. Many people died in that bomb blast. Who is responsible for those Pakistani deaths? Could it be the work of a responsible national agency? Please think with an open mind. If you think with Dr. Munawar Hasan’s mind, then you will have a Taliban like answer for everything.

On a different note, Professor Munawar Hasan of the Jamat-e-Islami said:

Translation: We have the nukes, we can stand up to America and tell them.
Iftikhar of Jawab Deyh: But how will our nukes reach America?
Munawar Hasan: The Americans are here.

I could not believe my ears when I heard this. Does Dr. Munawar Hasan plan to explode a nuclear bomb in Afghanistan, killing half of Pakistan alongside the Americans? What kind of a leadership do we have? An educated jaahil Maulvi heading the largest most organized religious / political party of Pakistan… Words cannot express the state of affairs. But first thing first, please protect each and every Pakistani life by telling all you know to do something to curtain the expansiveness of the ISI.

ISI and army are after “blood money” – money that Pakistan receives from the Americans after convincing them that there is a Taliban problem in Pakistan, which can defeat NATO forces in Afghanistan, and which maybe able to take over Pakistan’s nuclear weapons, and to fight this menace, Americans are told over and over again, “we need more support”. But we have never heard that this money has made its way to an ordinary policeman or Hawaldar who has actually fought the Taliban in the streets of Pakistan. Some of this money disappears, just as the beneficiary of most of the drug money from Afghanistan is unnamed.

Do Nawaz Sharif, PPPP, PTI, and others even understand what the true problem is? The Taliban are surely coming, but they seem somnolent to this. I find it amusing to be saying Altaf Hussain is right, because we all know what MQM stands for. But in this case, Altaf does seem to be correct.

The last time there was a change in Jamat-e-Islami leadership was during Afghan jihad days when all was holy. Fighting the Soviets and embracing death was the chief shahadat. ISI, through Jamat-e-Islami’s shura, elected a man for the sole purpose of speaking to the Pakhtoons. This man was Qazi Hussain Ahmed, who was himself a Pathan. And we heard it many times over, “Zalimo Qazi Aa raha he”. When his utility was over, he duly left. Now, when ISI desperately wants the Taliban to take over Karachi, they have installed a “Muhajir” – Dr. Munawar Hasan as the head of Jamat-e-Islami. Surely, this must be in the “national Interest”.

Which journalist has the courage to speak against ISI or has spoken against the ISI after Musharraf left (Not even Ansar Abbasi)? None. It seems that for the journalists, getting Musharraf out was the higher goal. Now, they sleep lik all else in Punjab and the rest of the country.

The ISI – the so-called first line of defense of Pakistan, is so corrupt, both financially and intellectually that it does not know any better other than their own survival. For that, they send regular envelopes filled with money to journalists. Journalists like Nazir Naji, Abdul Qadir Hasan, Irshad Haqqani, Hamid Mir, Ansar Abbasi, Kashif Abbasi and others are bought easily. Everyone has their price. Some by means of plot allotment, others with that infamous grey envelope filled with some cash, yet others like Hamid Mir and Ansar Abbasi with information about a particular politician..

What a sorry state of affairs.

@mzzt, @aneeza , @Amir Hameed email me at address above if you want to help out with the bootstrapping process in setting up the discussion/lobbying space. I’ll send you the invites slash secret phrase thingamajiggy.

@mb: dude that AAM post is classic! I totally LOL’ed.

@gv, @mb, @gul, @mutazalzaluzaman tarar, @Marcvs_Tacitvs_Cicero, @AmirHameed, @kashif, @peja (come on don’t be a sourpuss), @AclarionCall, @nota, @rasheed, and all others interested! ::

Okay folks, I’m going to try to create a wiki site (with some kind of forum thingy but don’t count on it yet). I’m going with “HALD” for now. We can change it to something profound and meaningful later on. I shall report my progress on my blog (and here). The logins will have to be signed up for at wikidot.com and then you can put a request in to become a member. email me at address below if there are any confusions. Keeping the PKP id’s will make things simpler but nothing that a round of ‘introductions’ can’t fix.

email me at taban.khamosh [AT] gmail dot com

I don’t expect there to be more than a few users (less than 20 I think). We need to invite all who are interested in “discourse” rather than polemics that we engage in here at PKP and which have overwhelmed the admains and the members over here.

The idea is to engage in explorative discussion regarding Pakistan and the challenges facing our beloved and tortured motherland.

Here goes nothing…