I would like to introduce you my analysis on the subject of Flogging and Stone to Death with reference to Quran and Bible, which is my area of interest.
I am disappointed to see that the author seems to be ill informed about the scholarly debates of this issue or the principles of interpretation. He has managed to provide a novel interpretation based on his own logic.
May I ask what is the purpose of this post as I do not expect this topic to be divulged on by pkpolitics. Since when pkpolitics has also become pkreligion? With this topic going, now every tom, dock and harry will be coming out as a scholar of quran and authority to interpret this way or that. In my opinion discussing such topic by the unqualified people is nothing but making fun of the word of Most High.
based on the above, my understanding is that the punishment of flogging is only for prostitutes… and even then the punishment is to be given in front of “Momineen”/practising Muslims.
1) so, in reference to the Swat flogging – the question is where is the proof that Chand Bibi was a prostitute? heck where’s the proof that she was even guilty of infidelity forget prostitution?
2) and how do we determine what a Momin/practising Muslim is? I might be a kaafir myself. but I refuse to believe animals like Fazlullah/Baitullah etc practice Islam. so, why was Chand Bibi punished and humiliated in front of these kufaar? did these bearded retards not break the rules in the above interpretation?
4) why is the focus on women sleeping around? from a societal point of view, if you take out the red light areas of the population, most people would agree that in Pakistan the chances of men sleeping around are far higher than women doing the same. so, why is the focus on only policing women… when the focus should be on men who are generally the ones abusing and using women especially in a society as sexist and male dominated as ours?
I want to thank you for this service to society. Problem is that how can we make ppl aware of true Islamic Teachings??
It is sad that our Ill knowledged Mullas (playing in the hands of our enemies) have damaged Islam so much that everybody is scared of going to them for advice. Even if they go, very little tell them true path and tell what is in favour of their belief. I think media, govt as well as genuine ulamas from all Islamic groups should take the matter seriously and need to work to unite Muslims. It is the responsibility of all of us and we all should do whatever in our powers to unite muslims. Otherwise we will be answerable to Allah.
Islamic history clearly shows that difference of opinion among Muslims was also present during the life of our Holy Prophet peace be upon him but they had respect for other group. Downfall of Muslims started when they started to disrespect others in the name of Islam. This is a very important point that we need to understand and act accordingly. Even in the life of our beloved Holy Prophet, not all the Muslims were true practicing Muslims. There were always sinful ppl like me present in the society but Islam does not allow to kill these ppl because, Islam is not against sinful ppl and is against sins. Islam wants us to improve our way of life everyday by rectifying our own faults.
Islam taught to us these days is exactly opposite to this theme. Today we believe in the theme that what we believe is right and all others are wrong. Next stage is that we started to exclude other Muslims from the circle of Islam & now final stage is that we have started to kill other Muslims in the name of Islam. This is going on for the last few hundred years and has also caused the downfall of Muslims in the world.
However it is sad that ppl who claim to be the leaders of their believers do not have the courage to admit their own faults and come forward to unite Muslims. Thats why I say that media & govt should start the initiative and act to unite Muslims from the streets level. please think what service we are giving to Islam by construction of three to four beautiful mosques in one muhallah??? Would it not be better that we have one mosque with an Imam who does not support any religious group. Also govt & ulamas should take steps to have some kind of control over mosques constructions and what they teach. Better to have Imams appointed by govt as done in other Islamic countries. This is possible but first we have to make ppl aware at national as well as international level that all the humans who have said “La Ilaha Illallah Muhammad ur Rasool Allah” are MUSLIMS and that there are no Kafir, Mushrik & Bidati etc. They may have their grading in the eyes of Allah and His Prophet but they are Muslims. Our Holy Prophet has said that “Hell fire will not touch a Muslim who has said La Ilaha Illallah Muhammad ur Rasool Allah in its true spirit”. Who are we to judge other ppl as Kafir & Mushrik???? May Allah have mercy on us and help all muslims. Ameen.
As I am not religious scholar therefore who are experts & authority in this subject in their own style the complete rather comprehensive answers in the following manner:
Chand Bibi was innocent. She was not a Zaniya. It is sad to see people like Hamid Mir have taken the side of terrorists.
Through some search, I also found an Urdu article by Hamid Mir supporting Taliban and meeting their leaders. He has confirmed that ‘flogging’ of the girl is real (He went to the area and has supported flogging of girl who was living with her ‘father in Law’ which is against the teachings of Islam)
@admin
would you publish the profile of author of this article so that we can make sure credibility of it.
He missed many things specially he didn’t quote any of hadiths in supporting of his arguments. It needs that he would provide references otherwise it is just his interpretation which is quite different from main discourse on this issue.
That was my first reaction too…. The author’s “interpretation” has no references. Just using verbal jugglery to make his point seem like its logical.
It is a well known fact that the holy Prophet (SAW) had prescribed the punishment of stoning to death himself. While (according to author) there is no mentioning of stoning in Quran.
For the benefit of readers I must emphasize that the source of “Ihakamat” or Rulings of islam is Quran AND Sunnah, and Sunnah is hadith that have been authenticated as much as humanly possible. some very commong examples of this is the way animals are slaughtered, and way of prayers (salat – number of raka’s etc) are not given in detail in Quran, while they are established from sunnah.
I agree with you. The author has missed many things.
1- Flogging is only for the unmarried man and woman found guilty of adultery.
2- Stoned death is for the married persons.
3- The author tried to give the imression that flogging is only for the professional prostitutes; this interpretation is totally wrong.
4- I am surprised , why author didnt quote any Sahih Hadith. Where as numerous hadiths are about adultery punishments and other relvant details.
As far as I know that although the punishment of flogging is not mentioned in the Quran, it falls in the category of ¨Sunnat-e-tawaturr”. Its the same type of practice through which the way to say our prayers (salah) has come down to us, from one generation to another with not a single break in between. I do not remember the source of this at the moment but I will look it up and mention it here.
Moreover, there are also some research finding on the counterpart situation of issue of qazaf and the punishment of chaste women if they committ zina for the male gender. Also need to look up the source and get back to you.
Thanks for your post.
Having said that the issue of flogging in Swat does not address a lot of other requirements and concerns apart from these issues.
I was telling someone what Quran says on a certain issue (it was about ‘Halal’ meat). He did not agree. He said Hadith is also very important. I told him about a Hadith. He said he would ask a ‘Maulvi Sahib’. When I told him that my friends who do not agree with me have asked a Maulvi in Oxford Mosque and that Maulvi sahib also agrees, he said: ‘My knowledge says….’.
Those who want to believe something will bring their fatwas that support their pre-determined views.
- Allah sent his book which itself claims that it is complete message.
- Allah clearly told that Zina is bad
- Allah clearly told the exact punishment of Zina (flogging)
- Allah went down to details and even told the number of times that punishment has to be done (100 times)
But Muslims think that Allah did not do his job properly and left the details in other books that came 200 years after Quran and they try to challenge the completeness of Quran.
Allah tells everyone to read and understand Quran, but same Muslims think that it should be left to experts only and we should just shut up and follow what Mullah say.
I agree with the interpertation of Mr. Ayub. Mullas have no right to intrepret Quran on the base of books of their ancesstors written 1000+ years ago. Hadeeths and Fiqah are all man made sources. Quran does not prescribe either Hadeeth or Fiqah or any other school. Mullaism is not Islamic by itself. Quran clearly prohibits priesthood and does not allow ‘selling his ayats’ to be adopted as a profession.
I made a post last night using Ibn Kathir as a reference which discussed the definition of Zaniyah and Zani, which I believe this author has mistranslated, and has made the words appear different from what they actually mean. I would appreciate that my post be approved and posted.
Thanks
This article brings home the point that how outdated these religions are and they should be deposited to the dustbin of History, sooner the better.
All the billions of Zanis and Zanias living in China,The Southeast Asia,Japan ,Europe ,North and South America,Australia and New Zeland,all over the world.. How thrilled they will be to hear this.. what is God’s plan for them?
This shows how pathetically outdated pinishments and ideas in the name of religion are presented even today as real research and analysis.As they are present in the Holy books too.
Flogging is barbaric enough,if you ask me.
Flogging.
Cutting off Hnad.
80 Stripes for drinking.
Interest is ‘Haram
But you can literally get away from Murder in Islam if you pay money claimed by the relatives ,under Qisas and Dayat.
No Jail terms as Jail idea is alien to Quran.
Practice your religion as a private matter , between you and whichever God you worship. When laws will be made based on religion. No good will ever come out of that.
Keep the two seperate. But in Islam it will be impossible to achieve, at least for a thousand more years.
The problem is that we as a Muslim go in opposite direction to follow Islam.
We see what is beneficial for us and what part of Islam fits in our daily life and then what follows it through.
e.g My first proirity is my tradition then how I see my elders doing. Then What my parents said>then what the So called molvi or Alim said (have a lot of knowledge or degrees but not a practicle sincere person, uses knowledge for its own benefits/ does not have no knowledge and no practice )
then what my molvi’s molvi said.
then my what my head molvi said about the particular sect
Immams said
then what was Sahaba’s usual practice
then What prophet SAW Ahadeez
then what Quran said.
Instead we should be praticing Islam in its original direction.
First of all and above all is the Quran> Ahadeez of prophet SAW> practice of sahaba’s the ones they learned from prophet SAW directly
then the rest if it fits in the above criteria should be practiced
Immams said
head molvi said about particular sect
then what my molvi’s molvi said then my molvi said.then my parents said and then whatever my tradition says or asks me to do.
@babu from usa
I live in Karachi and what people do here is unbelievable.
The youngsters celebrate HOLI festival with colours, proper invitation cards are printed and sent. Parents not only encouarge but also participate.
‘Gaud bharai’ has become very common (of pregnant women) and is done in exactly Indian films/Starplus style.
Mangal suttars are available at the jewellers and almost all brides wear it.
India has won the cultural war..RAW couldn’t do what their movies/television have done to our youth.
This is only promoting extremists/taliban. I feel so sad when I look at these kids because it is evident that Pakistan has no hope for its tomorrow.
M Ayoob Khan is totally right in his conception. There is no stoning in Quran. What is in Hadith is one rare instance and it appears by the words of Hadith that, that was either the case of prostitution or the case of Jews or both. In the state of Madinah jews were allowed to practice their religeous laws.
This Hadith is not in the form of order. Just an event cannot abrogate clear Quranic laws.
Ashraf M. Quraishi.
P.S Who is M Ayoob khan it is not that important. What is the clear Quranic verdict is most important.
This is a very good debates and I personally do appreciate the effort of Brother Mr Ayub that he came forward and present us the truth/reality from the Book of Allah. I know many people do agree and many always stand in rejection and many stay alive as ignorant and so on. The only thing is matter we all should individually see where We personally stand in the Book of Allah.
So If my behaviour and attitudes recomend me to seek always Guidence from the book of Allah then yes this debate is the right for me, BUT if I do not have guts to listen What Quran says about any particular things then offcourse this I will not like.
Now I totally agree whatever Ayub mentioned from the Quran and I do not have any argue or doubts in its literal meaning and translation and I also respect his way of thoughts to consider the Book of Allah as a piece of guidence to seek and to resolve OUR daily life matters from the Book of Allah.
I didnot find any ignorance in his presenting way, All what he said is from the light of Ayat of Quran and Prophet Muhammad Practice is recognized that whatever matters comes to him (pbuh) he deails according to Quran. So no one should be any doubt that If someone is showing Ayat then he is neglecting prophet teaching, rather HE/SHE is in true practice of Prophets.
Long story short, I do agree whatever you said from Quran and If any one has any argument about any ayat then BRING an AYAH from Quran that leads to you the pracitce which people did in SAWAT??? No one can show it in Quran….
Again ponder in Quran you will know this is TRUE word of Allah that is giving complete guidence in each and every single matter of OUR daily lives.
@Pak.nukes
We should not loose hope at any time. sometimes hope just diminishes but should not be extinguished. There are problems in karachi like you describe but also in other parts of Pakistan as well. Some of the things done by those who even claim as practicing muslims but do exactly against Islam or have nothing to do with Islam.
Also if a person has beard everyone thinks if he is a scholar of Islam and if he does something wrong then we say look at him he has beard and he is doing this.
Good thing is that people are getting more educated about Islam and we can get info about Islam more easily from different sources.
Some places they donot give woman a right in property. She cannot inherit a property from her fahther and that is totally against Islamic teaching.
Dear Brother BABU FROM USA Salam un alaik,
The definition of Muslim :-
[3.84] Say: We believe with Allah and what has been revealed on us, and what was revealed on Abrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and what was given to Musa and Isa and to the prophets from their Sustainer; we do not make any distinction between any of them(prophets), and we are MUSLIMS for Him(Allah).
Masha Allah I am Muslim as per the above definition of Quran.
Ayub
As far as I know that although the punishment of flogging is not mentioned in the Quran.
Please read my article you will find that Quran is addressing the Flogging for Prostitudes in an Islamic State where the Govt is going to implement this Law after the education of the Laws of Quran to the Nation.
Dear Salam un Alaik,
Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar said:
Q-”if you take out the red light areas of the population, most people would agree that in Pakistan the chances of men sleeping around are far higher than women doing the same.so, why is the focus on only policing women “.
Answer:-Dear Brother read the article again and try to understand that Allah says Flogging is for both who are involved in Prostitution.
(agrana75 said:
I agree with you. The author has missed many things.)
Q-1- Flogging is only for the unmarried man and woman found guilty of adultery.
Ans-1,I have translated the Word of arabic ZANIYA which is clear that means Prostitute.Allah did not ask any witness for flogging in Sura 24 aya 2.I explained in detail.
Q-2- Stoned death is for the married persons.
Ans-2-I have quoted the Bible for those who are thinking that “STONE TO DEATH” is a Quranic Practice.
Q-3- The author tried to give the imression that flogging is only for the professional prostitutes; this interpretation is totally wrong.
Ans-3-I just translated the word ZANIYA means Prostitutes.No interpretation.
Q-4- I am surprised , why author didnt quote any Sahih Hadith. Where as numerous hadiths are about adultery punishments and other relvant details.
Ans-4-After the complete revelation of Quran there is no such practice can be done.How can it be possible while Allah has completed the revelation on Prophet pbuh and it does not consist any aya of Stone to Death.While it is clearly mentioned in Bible.
We do not want to leave the practices of our forefather.Which satisfy our Ego.
Sura 47- aya 24: Do they not then earnestly seek to understand THE QURAN
or are their hearts locked up by them
Sura Al- Furqan 25 Aya 30. And the Messenger will say,
” O my lord! Surely, my people took this AL-QURAN
and abandoned it.
Half baked conclusions without consulting sahih hadith. It’s like saying that since there is no mention of procedure of offering namaz in quran, you can offer the prayer the way you want. Some posts on this site are really fishy.
M Ayoob Khan has quoted the Quranic ayats and is totally right in his conception.
we should try to understand our book, to practice real islam of Allah as per his only book Quran, preachd by prophet s.a.w.
@jutt kharak
coz you are an idiot, so I just wanna know that if you are just an idiot or a deliberate one.
Either you are out of your senses when you write or you write them deliberately.
In any way you are JAHIL kharak.
@Babu
They let brain damaged fools like you into The United States is a tragedy in itself.
Now you have to live among all the Zanis and Zanias.
Get back to Sufi Mohammad and live in a an Islamic country.
You are living a haram life anayways. You Jahil piece of Sh**t.
@Jahil Kharak
Why you are not using your brain and using lines from my comment.
I get through to USA and you could not, so thats your tragedy.
How hypocrate comments you sent. check your comment at 7:08 am and 4:24pm and then compare them. So tell me you wrote comment at 7:08 while you were intoxicated by having a fresh glass of what?
Your stay with Mush is good for you. This will help you to lower your IQ further and you need some extra spanking especially from Mush himself. Donot forget to do your little dance in front of him to get him blessings.
Don’t you feel any shame with all the sh**t coming out of your mouth?
What a ‘Ghaleez Insan’ you are?
Don’t ask anyone any questions. You JAHIL Mutliq.
Nobody’s Your ‘Baap ka naukar’ to answer your silly questions.
I think you are very young- perhaps under 20 years of age- I forgive you for your ignorant rants.
All answers are there but your dumba*s is unable to see them.
There are no punishments for biological functions such as–
1. Eating or drinking fluids because one is hungry or thirsty.
2.Emptying bladder or bowls when the urge comes and/ or is neccessary .
The issue of controlling sexual relations appears to be of paramount concern here and in the Islamic peoples.
In Saudi Arabia where there is Sharia – moral corruption is rampant. If you get the statistics for the HITS on pornographic sites on the internet- Saudi Arabia is number one in the whole world and Pakistan is number 2.
So much for Sharia being effective in stopping immorality !
Is it a biological function ? And should society be the one to put sanctions to control it and punish those that disobey.
And why should those punishments be harsh and brutal ?
And should the Muslims to-day be required to follow the rules established 1400 years ago even though God given ? Can we at least be allowed to examine the validity and practicality of these rules
And is it not hypocritical that one hand there appears to be agreement to punish those that indulge in sexual activity outside of that allowed by rules-( Marriage) – there is no rule to govern the sexual relations in marriage where too much sex is causing the population explosion in addition to other ills.
I know the population explosion is a concern -but is stoning to death the culprits of sexual activity is a very effective solution.
To those that oppose the sharia- please have courage to come out in the open and denounce the Islamic Sharia and it;s rules in plain language.
To those that propose enforcement of Islamic Sharia- have the courage to face up to and answer the criticisms of the opponents such inhumanity, cruelty and brutality.
To comment and discuss as to what is the proper punishment- either lashes or stoning or shooting is a bit strange
The problem as I see it that In Pakistan-( Muslims) people are not sure as to what they want to do.
Most people would like their daughters to be well educated and intellectual but should not be thinking in an independent manner and remain within the ” ISLAMIC” system as regards behaviour towards other men .
But when it comes to their own behaviour-( Men) towards other people’s daughters- well they say it is different and they behave like the immoral men that they are.
I am proud to be a Muslim. But most of the above comments are contrary to the Islamic Fiqh and Shariah that I have had the privelege to study for almost five years. We were taught by most eminent teachers from Pakistan and AlAzhar University. It seems that every one is obsessed with the form of punishment whithout having any knowledge of how one would reach this stage. It also appears that there is no knowledge of the basic principle in case of Zina i.e it is better to ignore or hide even if someone has witnessed the act. It would have been advisable for the writer to have educated others of the degree of evidence required for imposing the punishment. The differences amongst the Mujtahids. All four witnesses must have witnessed the actual act of intercourse in a manner that the insertion is visable to every witness. This degree of evidence is possible only if the Zina takes place in a crowded Park or street. There are several other factors which virtually makes the imposition of Hadd impossible.’
Islamic Fiqh and Shariah are based on the foundation of Preservation of LIFE, LIFE in every form, plant animal or human.
Pleaee don’t mutilate and insult the Fiqh and Shariah by writting articles and comments without having any knowledge. The Talibans are doing enough damage and are establishing that they are being funded, backed and supported by enimies of Pakistan.
Please for Allah Almighty’s sake don’t insult and damage Islam.
@Insaan, you wont find a single hadeeth narrating the whole procedures, but the procedure comes combining many hadeeths and continuation of act til Tabaeen. I am not a mufti so I am not authorised to go in details. But it’s common sense you can not interprate things from Quran just translating the message.
Do have any clue as to how a Hadith is analysed or relied upon? Please don’t damage and mutilate the great religion. Please read Usul ul Fiqh and the works of Imam Abu Hanifa, Hambal, Shafie etc before making a comment.
To Sheematoree! You are very right. But did you ever thought that eating drinking urinating is natural, even then you are not allowed to to eat food from any place. You have to follow some rules to eat. Rules are every where there is no any SOCIETY without rules, even jungles have kind of rules. You go to restaurant you buy your food you paid with your hard earned money but you have to eat it as it allows the restaurant, on the table not walking back and forth in the restaurant. Urination is natural need bu to fulfill this need you have to go in to covered area i.e washrooms, if you urinate on the road side you will be booed and jeered and you will also get ticket. Sexual urge is natural but would you allow your father to get it satisfied any where other than your mom. Would you allow your mom to go to satisfy her sexual any where other than your father?
Every society, every religion every government makes rules for the society to obay and keep the society in harmony. When accept this then we will be able to understand that laws of a society may right or wrong, or it can appear to us right or wrong, but there is always some reason and logic behind every rule and law.
Hope you will try to understand it unbiasly.
Ashraf M. Quraishi.
Brother Ayub, before I say anything about your fatawa above. I would like to know, what is your scholarly background on Islamic Sciences, because I believe for any Muslim it should be of the highest concern to not take their islamic knowledge from anyone out there. Given the importance of Islam in this life and in hereafter, knowledge of it should only be taken and accepted from people of the best character and knowledge in islamic sciences.
It is like if you are ill, you don’t want to trust any doctors to get treatment from, It could be very life threatening. Same is true for your Iman, you don’t want to trust Islamic knowledge from people whose scholarly work hasn’t gone through extensive peer review. So, I would also like to know, which scholars have reviewed your scholarly work above and agreed to it???
Secondly, it will be very beneficial for your readers and acceptance of your work that you tell them what do you think is the position of Hadith and opinions of early muslim scholars (Salaf) in establishment of Islamic rulings?
@pkpolitics Administration
I would like to remind you that before you let anyone post anything related to religion it should be of the highest scholarly standards and quality and comming from people who are known to be best in Islamic Sciences (Knowledge of both Quran and Sunnah which constitute any Islamic rulings). If that post misguide any muslim on this forum, you will be held responsible on the Day of Judgement.
Dear Salam un Alaik,You asked as:
{anti_democratic said:
Brother Ayub, before I say anything about your fatawa above. I would like to know, what is your scholarly background on Islamic Sciences, because I believe for any Muslim it should be of the highest concern to not take their islamic knowledge from anyone out there.}
Answer:-This is not a FATWA but it is the analysis of the ayat mentioned in Quran. As you know that Quran is the Book of Allah The Guidence for mankind.It is not the property of any school of thought.Kindly read the following FATWA’S from Allah in the following ayat then refrain your question again.Allah says as:
AL-QAMAR- 54 17. And We have indeed made THE QURAN easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?
BANI-ISRAIL- 17 89. And We have explained to man in this QURAN every kind of EXAMPLE, yet the greater part of mankind refuse except with ingratitude.
BANI-ISRAIL- 17 45. When you read Quran, We put between you and those who believe not in hereafter, a veil invisible: 46. And We put coverings over their hearts that they should understand THE QURAN, and deafness is their ears; and when you mention your Lord and Him alone in THE QURAN, they turn on their backs feelings.
Al- FURQAN- 25 30. And the Messenger will say, ” O my lord! Surely, my people took this AL-QURAN and abandoned it. (did not practice)
Kindly let me know that which part of the ayat in the article is wrongly analysed.Please discuss about the subject which I have presented.
Thanks
The science to derive a rule or command from the Sources is known as Usul-ul-Fiqh. No person is authorised to interpret or derive a Command without being a Mujtahid. Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Malik, Imam Shafie, Imam Hambal were the first Mujtahids. On the basis of Usul-ul-Fiqh, they differ in thier opinions. One may be very strict in relying on a Hadith while others would be less strict. Not every Hadith is considered authentic. The Usul are applied. When the State started to destroy and distort Islam by forcing the Mujtahids to give certain desired opinions, Mujtahids decided to close the doors to Ijtihad. Today everyone seems to be acting as a Mujtahid and are leaving no strone unturned in damaging and destroying Islam.
Oh man I really hurted your feelings. An man with abusive languuage and no sense. I know you cannot answer so donot feel bad just say I cannot.
could you put some light on B-7 of WTC fall. LOL not a question.
I forgive you too.
Brothers Ayub Khan and Pakhtun77: Thank you for your contributions. You are both right in your different ways.
If you are not already familiar with Dr Shabbir Ahmed’s writings in Urdu and English, I recommened that you visit his website http://www.ourbeacon.com.
One of the best expositions of Islam for young people is the Urdu masterpiece “Saleem ke naam khatoot” by Ghulam Ahmad Parwaiz.
By and large, we are all constrained by our limited powers to comprehend REALITY. Let us not be dogmatic and let us just follow the Message of the Qur’an with as much sincerity as we can muster. If you have to spend many years of your life to study fiqh, “ahadees”, etc, before we are able to work out Allah’s Will for us then Islam is only for the intellectuals and the clever university types. How will simple folk manage? Will the clever ulama for ever keep twirling us around their little fingers? The fact is Islam is NOT a religion, it is a Way of Life.
If someone is thirsty/ hungry they can drink water or juices etc./ cow steak in normal life. Drinking alcohol /urine etc./ pork / should not be first proirity unless someone needs to save life.
What is your source of evidence about #1 SA and #2 Pakistan.
Lets assume that what you said is right then tell us where these pornographic movies are made #1, #2,#3 or who is involved in them.
In SA sharia is not fully implemented. some traditions are practiced along with sharia.
Tell me how many cases of teen pregnancy of SINGLE MOM in SA or Pakistan or any other muslim countries. and then compare them with USA and other western countries. How much the problem they are facing?
I am not sure what you mean by biological function?
Off course it is biological function but one need to control or there should be laws to control such people. Otherwise, a person rapes someone and simply says I was just having an urgency to fullfill my body requirements. Also consider a gang rape, will IT be fully justified. Should be the punishement be harshed or just a month in jail so the person does the same again.
In normal life every one will be free to do whatever they want under the so called doctrine of biological function. Who will put the limit or just like animals .
How about electric chair death in USA for killer? should let the killers loose.
1400 years ago the laws are universe and are functional. Only thing is to implement them under their true spirit. There are some laws of physics and science that we use them till today e.g Newton laws etc. we should not apply them now only coz they are too old. Force of Gravity is the same 9.8m/sec square.
Check the facts and compare them in USA and SA on per year bases.
How many rape cases in a year.
How many killings.
How many deaths by accidents due to alcohol.
How many cases of Single mom teen age pregnancies.
How many HIV patients.
How many bastards are born each year.
INSTEAD OF ADOPTING GOOD THINGS FROM USA / WESTERNS LIKE CLEAN ROADS, CLEAN ENVIRNOMENT, FACILITIES IN SCHOOLS AND HOSPITALS , NEW TECHNOLOGY TO OVER COME HUMAN SUFFERINGS ETC. YOU ARE TELLING US TO ADOPT THE BAD THINGS FROM THEM.
For the Answer of your calrification about Zana i am just coating one very popular hadith from Bukhari & Muslim;
” On Women from Muslim came to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon Him) and asked ” Ya Rasool i performed Zinah and i want to be ” Had ” from you, Prophet asked 3 times to her to go back to home and Toubah with Allah May he will forbid her but she didn’t accept and ask 4th time to Nifaz HAD against her. This time Prophet ask her that is she Preganant with child ? she replied “YES ” prophet said ” go first birth a child then came back ‘ she came back after to birth a child and ask again to Prophet for HAD prophet Ordered ” Sangsar ” to her when Sahaba (RATA) sangsar her to her blood came on the faces of some sahaba so some one from them said ” oh what a bad she was ‘ so Prophet (PBUH) stop them and said ” She in now in Jannah and the TOUBAH she performed if Allah divide on this land that is enough for all ” & then prophet said ” I am prophet of Allah if you performed any sin pardon with allah lonely dont come to me if you will come to me i will follow the Order of Allah “.
So the point is
1. Above women was not use to of Zinah.
2. Nobody asked her or push her to confess for HAD and punishment untill or unless a 4 shahadah against her and they ask to Qazi for in Islamic Shariah but better here to ask her to Toubah if by mistakely ( but how many are doing this mistakely these days & definatly if you catch them so both would lying due to they would afraid to might have punishment).
3.Allegation is same for All not defined for a women having profession
Dear Brother Abu Hashim : this Riwayat is directly in contradiction with Quran but in favour of Bible which I have quoted in my Article.We believe in Quran and Sunnah but not The Bible.
AL-HADEED- 57 16. Has not the time arrived for believers that their hearts in all humility should engage in the remembrance of Allah and of the truth which has been revealed and that they should not become like those to whom was given THE BOOK before, but long ages passed their hearts grew hard, for many among them are rebellious transgressors.
Al- FURQAN- 25 30. And the Messenger will say, ” O my lord! Surely, my people took this AL-QURAN and abandoned it. (did not practice)
This fitna of Munkireen-e-Hadith is everywhere. The interpretation of the author is clearly a misguided one, not considering the Sahih Ahadith in the least bit. May Allah guide them and us towards the right path.
Dear farqis Salam un alaik,
Kindly do not ignore the ayat by accusing me.Brother the attitude is the key to understand the truth.
BANI-ISRAIL- 17 45. When you read Quran, We put between you and those who believe not in hereafter, a veil invisible: 46. And We put coverings over their hearts that they should understand THE QURAN, and deafness is their ears; and when you mention your Lord and Him alone in THE QURAN, they turn on their backs feelings.
Masha Allah the conclusion in the ayat of Sura Noor has proved that there is no concept of Stone to Death in Quran Majeed.But it is the Law of Bible and the non muslims are accusing Islam for this barbaric punishment with out any knowledge.
Dawud :: Book 38 : Hadith 4405
Narrated Nu’aym ibn Huzzal:
Yazid ibn Nu’aym ibn Huzzal, on his father’s authority said: Ma’iz ibn Malik was an orphan under the protection of my father. He had illegal sexual intercourse with a slave-girl belonging to a clan. My father said to him: Go to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and inform him of what you have done, for he may perhaps ask Allah for your forgiveness. His purpose in that was simply a hope that it might be a way of escape for him.
So he went to him and said: Apostle of Allah! I have committed fornication, so inflict on me the punishment ordained by Allah. He (the Prophet) turned away from him, so he came back and said: Apostle of Allah! I have committed fornication, so inflict on me the punishment ordained by Allah. He (again) turned away from him, so he came back and said: Apostle of Allah! I have committed fornication, so inflict on me the punishment ordained by Allah.
When he uttered it four times, the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: You have said it four times. With whom did you commit it?
He replied: With so and so. He asked: Did you lie down with her? He replied: Yes. He asked: Had your skin been in contact with hers? He replied. Yes. He asked: Did you have intercourse with her? He said: Yes. So he (the Prophet) gave orders that he should be stoned to death. He was then taken out to the Harrah, and while he was being stoned he felt the effect of the stones and could not bear it and fled. But Abdullah ibn Unays encountered him when those who had been stoning him could not catch up with him. He threw the bone of a camel’s foreleg at him, which hit him and killed him. They then went to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and reported it to him.
He said: Why did you not leave him alone. Perhaps he might have repented and been forgiven by Allah.
Malik :: Book 41 : Hadith 41.1.6
Malik related to me from Ibn Shihab from Ubaydullah ibn Abdullah ibn Utba ibn Masud that Abu Hurayra and Zayd ibn Khalid al-Juhani informed him that two men brought a dispute to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace. One of them said, “Messenger of Allah! Judge between us by the Book of Allah!” The other said, and he was the wiser of the two, “Yes, Messenger of Allah. Judge between us by the Book of Allah and give me permission to speak.” He said, “Speak.” He said, “My son was hired by this person and he committed fornication with his wife. He told me that my son deserved stoning, and I ransomed him for one hundred sheep and a slave-girl. Then I asked the people of knowledge and they told me that my son deserved to be flogged with one hundred lashes and exiled for a year, and they informed me that the woman deserved to be stoned.” The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, “By him in whose Hand myself is, I will judge between you by the Book of Allah. As for your sheep and slave girl, they should be returned to you. Your son should have one hundred lashes and be exiled for a year.” He ordered Unays al-Aslami to go to the wife of the other man and to stone her if she confessed . She confessed and he stoned her.
Muslim :: Book 17 : Hadith 4205
Sulaiman b. Buraida reported on the authority of his father that Ma, iz b. Malik came to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said to him: Messenger of Allah, purify me, whereupon he said: Woe be upon you, go back, ask forgiveness of Allah and turn to Him in repentance. He (the narrator) said that he went back not far, then came and said: Allah’s Messenger, purify me. whereupon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Woe be upon you, go back and ask forgiveness of Allah and turn to Him in repentance. He (the narrator) said that he went back not far, when he came and said: Allah’s Messenger, purify me. Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) said as he had said before. When it was the fourth time, Allah’s Messenger (may, peace be upon him) said: From what am I to purify you? He said: From adultery, Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) asked if he had been mad. He was informed that he was not mad. He said: Has he drunk wine? A person stood up and smelt his breath but noticed no smell of wine. Thereupon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Have you committed adultery? He said: Yes. He made pronouncement about him and he was stoned to death. The people had been (divided) into two groups about him (Ma’iz). One of them said: He has been undone for his sins had encompassed him, whereas another said: There is no repentance more excellent than the repentance of Ma’iz, for he came to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) and placing his hand in his (in the Holy Prophet’s) hand said: Kill me with stones. (This controversy about Ma’iz) remained for two or three days. Then came Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) to them (his Companions) as they were sitting. He greeted them with salutation and then sat down and said: Ask forgiveness for Ma’iz b. Malik. They said: May Allah forgive Ma’iz b. Malik. Thereupon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: He (Ma’iz) has made such a repentance that if that were to be divided among a people, it would have been enough for all of them. He (the narrator) said: Then a woman of Ghamid, a branch of Azd, came to him and said: Messenger of of Allah, purify me, whereupon he said: Woe be upon you; go back and beg forgiveness from Allah and turn to Him in repentance. She said: I find that you intend to send me back as you sent back Ma’iz. b. Malik. He (the Holy, Prophet) said: What has happened to you? She said that she had become pregnant as a result of fornication. He (the Holy Prophet) said: Is it you (who has done that)? She said: Yes. He (the Holy Prophet) said to her: (You will not be punished) until you deliver what is there in your womb. One of the Ansar became responsible for her until she was delivered (of the child). He (that Ansari) came to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said the woman of Ghamid has given birth to a child. He (the Holy Prophet) said: In that case we shall not stone her and so leave her infant with none to suckle him. One of the Ansar got up and said: Allah’s Apostle, let the responsibility of his suckling be upon me. She was then stoned to death.
The bottom line, as I said in my first comment, comes down to believing in Sahih Ahadith or not. I can Insha-Allah quote more if required, but it would be a waste if you do not consider Ahadith to be a valid source for Islamic teachings and Rulings (especially Hudud). And this thread is not the place to debate belief/disbelief in Ahadith.
Regarding your argument that we need to stick to Quran alone so that the rest of the world does not call the punishments ordained by Allah and his messenger as barbaric… let me quote a verse from Quran:
Al-Ma’idah [5:33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;
CRUCIFIXION !!! I don’t think they need anything else! And we don’t need to do different interpretations just because the critics of Islam criticize something. They will keep picking things in your religion:
Al-Baqarah [2:120] Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion. Say: “The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance.” Wert thou to follow their desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither Protector nor helper against Allah.
If they are going astray, we do not need to change our religion to appease them:
Al-Baqarah [2:26] Allah disdains not to use the similitude of things, lowest as well as highest. Those who believe know that it is truth from their Lord; but those who reject Faith say: “What means Allah by this similitude?” By it He causes many to stray, and many He leads into the right path; but He causes not to stray, except those who forsake (the path),-
And lastly, you called it the law of the Bible… Do you intend to disgrace Allah’s books?
Al-Baqarah [2:4-5] And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.
They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.
Even if it is in Torah or Injeel, we still believe that Torah, Zaboor, Injeel (not the current version of Bible), Quran and other divine books were All from Allah. And whatever rulings Allah’s Prophet ordained for us which have come to us through Sahih Ahadith with verifiable chains, are to be followed.
Do answer this one question though for my better understanding of where you’re coming from… Do you believe in Sahih Ahadith (conditionally or unconditionally)? If yes and conditionally, then what conditions do you apply? A ‘No’ ofcourse requires no explanation.
THESE ARE THE MESSAGES OF ALLAH WE CONVEY TO YOU WITH TRUTH. THEN, IN WHAT HADITH IF NOT IN ALLAH AND HIS VERSES, WILL THEY BELIEVE?
If we bear in mind the principle of TASREEF, that is, Al-Qur’an covers a given subject repeatedly from different perspectives, all which are CONSISTENT then there is no room left for flights of fantasy and for fantastic stories which came to be written down some 250-300 years after the Last Messenger of Allah had died.
Who were the people who first wrote down those stories? These so-called ‘imams’ were all from families who converted to Islam from Zoroastrianism. They were all brought up in the erstwhile Persian empire and they did not properly understand the Quraish dialect in which Al-Qur’an was revealed. They tended to interpret the Qur’anic Message in the light of the teachings of Zoroastrianism to which their minds had been conditioned.
Those who prefer the stories written in the books of former followers of Zoroaster – Zarathustra – to the truths conveyed in the Qur’an are sailing very close to the ‘Munikireen-Quraan’ wind. If there is a clear contradiction between the Quraan and a “hadith” story, which one will you accept? A munkir-e-Quraan prefers the latter irrespective of how shameful and immoral that story is!
Please brothers, to learn the truth about the so-called “ahadeeth” please read the Urdu masterpiece “Saleem ke naam khatoot”. It is in 3 volumes. If I remember correctly, the subject of “ahadeeth” is covered in the second or third volume.
Having read Allama Parwaiz’s book, please go on and read a translation of the Qur’an. The translations I would recommend are:
Urdu: ‘Mafhoom-ul-Qur’an’ by Ghulam Ahmad Parwaiz;
English: ‘Qur’an As It Explains Itself’ by Dr Shabbir Ahmed (available from his website http://www.ourbeacon.com).
@mbokhari
Unfortunately it is written in the Quran to beat your wife if her conduct is improper
It is in Surah Nisa ayat no 36. any Muslim would say no comment after reading it in the Quran.
yet noone reads the preceding ayah, and noone reads the hadith explaining it, breifly put the word us is wadribuhin ( 2 hit). The conteext of ayah is regarding adultry of a wife and what a hubby to do.
1 – talk with her, seek counseling, try to mediate and find ways for her to stop being an adulterer.
2 – If above fails then to seperate thier beds i.e not to sleep with her if she persists with adultry.
3 – if above fails to hit her so that she stops from being and adulterer.
Note the conditions posted b4 hitting her in Quran.
Lets turn to tafseer as per Prophet PBUH. Prophet dun like that we hit woman, thats why ALLAH has provided the way of divorce, dun hit her so hard as to leave a mark, dun hit her on the face dun hit her as to cause pain etc etc.
What hitting means is explained in Quran through the story of hadrath ayub aleh salat-o-wasalam, who when was being tested by ALLAH and was ill got mad one day on his wife and sworee wheen he gets betteer will hit her 100 strokes and ALLAH provided the way to fullfiill his oath by taking 100 straws joining them and lightly touhcing his wife to fullfill his oath.
ALSO point to ponder is the only time Quran mentions the hitting is in regards of an adulterer who refuse to mend her ways.
After reading what writer have wrote and some of people comment i must say mostly the writer have used alone Qur’anic verses and made up their own interpretation. The basic thing that we get is when you have a Qur’anic verses and you do Istimbaat on matters then one must first mention Qur’anic verses and then Saheeh Hadeeth and then interpretation of Salaf Saliheen (pious predecessors). With Qur’an in many ways people can be guided and in many ways can be misguided. There are are so many of sects, how come? The simple answer is whenever a group of peolpe have not taken its deen from salaf saliheen and made their own interpretation finally they have made up sect like maturidiyah, jahmiyah, mut’izalah, qadiryah, jabariyah, khwarijh, etc. May Allaah save us from their fitnah, ameen.
So its my humble request that we must get our deen from Qur’an wa Saheeh Sunnah plus the interpretation of Salaf Saliheen. And we must look upon tafaseer of salaf like tafseer ibn abbaas, tafseer ibn katheer, tafseer ibn jareer etc May Allaah guide us all, ameen.
kabhi aaey haqeeqat-e-muntazir nazar aa libas-e-majaz main
ke hazaroon sajdey tarap rahey hain meri jabeeen-e-nayaz main
kabhi sirbasajud jo main hoa, to zameen se aai yeh sadaa
tera dil to hai sanam aashna tujhey kia miley ga namaz main
Yaar seriously why does these articles are allowed to be posted here? Whoever this ayub guy is need a thorough education in Interpretation of ayah’s. alzaniyaah is a prostitute? I mean seriiously alzanni will be man wh@re lol. What abt ppl who dun pay but enjoy ahem ahem, jaisa apna cheeta IK tha;) would that mean no hud on him:p
^^^
Here is commentary by Mohammed Asad (from “The Message of the Quran”) about the ayat in question: It is evident from many authentic Traditions that the Prophet himself intensely detested the idea of beating one’s wife, and said on more than one occasion, “Could any of you beat his wife as he would beat a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?” (Bukhari and Muslim). According to another Tradition, he forbade the beating of any woman with the words, “Never beat God’s handmaidens” (Abu Da’ud, Nasa’i, Ibn Majah, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Ibn Hibban and Hakim, on the authority of Iyas ibn ‘Abd Allah; Ibn Hibban, on the authority of ‘Abd Allah ibn ‘Abbas; and Bayhaqi, on the authority of Umm Kulthum). When the above Qur’an-verse authorizing the beating of a refractory wife was revealed, the Prophet is reported to have said: “I wanted one thing, but God has willed another thing – and what God has willed must be best” (see Manar V, 74). With all this, he stipulated in his sermon on the occasion of the Farewell Pilgrimage, shortly before his death, that beating should be resorted to only if the wife “has become guilty, in an obvious manner, of immoral conduct”, and that it should be done “in such a way as not to cause pain (ghayr mubarrih)”; authentic Traditions to this effect are found in Muslim, Tirmidhi, Abu Da’ud, Nasa’i and Ibn Majah. On the basis of these Traditions, all the authorities stress that this “beating”, if resorted to at all, should be more or less symbolic – “with a toothbrush, or some such thing” (Tabari, quoting the views of scholars of the earliest times), or even “with a folded handkerchief” (Razi); and some of the greatest Muslim scholars (e.g., Ash-Shafi’i) are of the opinion that it is just barely permissible, and should preferably be avoided: and they justify this opinion by the Prophet’s personal feelings with regard to this problem.
(@MEMRIbo, I hope you won’t have your post deleted as I will need to reference it plenty )
“Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), according to the Institute’s web site, “emphasizes the continuing relevance of Zionism to the Jewish people and to the state of Israel.”[1] It “explores the Middle East through the region’s media. MEMRI bridges the language gap which exists between the West and the Middle East, providing timely translations of Arabic, Farsi, and Hebrew media, as well as original analysis of political, ideological, intellectual, social, cultural, and religious trends in the Middle East.”[2]
MEMRI has several offices around the world. Americans work in D.C.; British, Spaniards, Italians, Germans, and Norwegians work in the European Union; Israelis in Israel; Japanese in Japan; Arabs also make up some of the people who work for MEMRI. ”
“MEMRI’s stance is that it is opposed to Islamic fundamentalism, not Islam itself, although the integrity of this position may be questioned because of links on MEMRI’s website to certain evangelical Christian organizations who take a harder line on Islam. Yigal Carmon, MEMRI’s founder, is a former advisor on terrorism to the Israeli Prime Ministers, Yitzhak Shamir and Yitzhak Rabin, so he actually worked for both Labor and Likud governments”
Dear Brother Nota: Thank you very much for your post about aayat 4:34 of Al-Qur’an and for the excellent extract from Allama Mohammed Asad’s book.
The one word in SURAH AN-NISA, aayat 34, that has caused much controversy is ‘dharb’, which was translated by the Zoroastrian converts to Islam as ‘a beating’, and which no one dared question until modern times. Using TASREEF, let us see how this word is used elsewhere in the Qur’an (which was revealed in the Quraish’s Arabic dialect) of 1400 years ago.
Meaning 1: ‘To give example/ compare’. See 13:17, 16:74, 36:13, 43:58.
Meaning 2: ‘To stop or prevent/ to withdraw’. See 43:5.
Meaning 3: ‘To embark upon a journey/hit the road’. See 4:101.
Hence, Shabbir Ahmed Sahib translates the controversial passage as “keep admonishing them with examples”. His full translation of this aayah (4:34) is as follows:
Men are the protectors and supporters of women. They shall take full care of women with what they spend of their wealth. God has made men to excel in some areas and women to excel in some areas. Men should ensure that women are able to stand on their feet in society. So, righteous women are obedient to God’s Ordinances and guard the moral values even in privacy, the values that God has commanded to be guarded. If you experience ill-treatment from them, apprise them of possible consequences. Next, leave them in their resting places, but keep admonishing them with examples. If they pay heed to you, do not seek a way against them. God is Most High, Great.
Salam un alaik Dear farqis, Brother the following Riwayat was quoted by you in favour of Biblical Law of STONE TO DEATH.
Kindly analyze the following:
Malik :: Book 41 : Hadith 41.1.6
Malik related to me from ….One of them said, “Messenger of Allah! Judge between us by the Book of Allah!” The other said, and he was the wiser of the two, “Yes, Messenger of Allah. Judge between us by the Book of Allah …….., I will judge between you by the Book of Allah. ……” He ordered Unays al-Aslami to go to the wife of the other man and to stone her if she confessed . She confessed and he stoned her.
Analysis:-1-“Messenger of Allah! Judge between us by the Book of Allah!”
2-”I will judge between you by the Book of Allah.”
Brother-e-Mohtaram: How it is possible that Rasool pbuh said “I will judge between you by the Book of Allah.” The Book of Allah does not contain any aya for Stone To Death.Brother this riwayat is again directly contradicting The Quran and supporting the Jews and Chiristians BIBLE.If you have any reference from Quran then please paste on the Screen.I am waiting for the reference from The Book Of Allah.
Please analyse every thing which you are quoting and forcing us to believe.
Ayub
I’m assuming that all of you guys are well educated and open minded without analyzing by yourself you’ll not get to the conclusion. It’s a matter of human life so you have to be more cautious, here I’m presenting the Hadith books writer information for your review. Please note that none of the book was written in the life of Prophet PBUH died in 632AD or respected Companion (R.A). They started emerging after after 200 years when only some of Tabain or Taba Tabain were alive. All of those hadith compiler were non-arab (Iranian mostly).
Name Collector Size
Sahih Bukhari Imam Bukhari (d. 870) 7275 hadiths
Sahih Muslim Muslim Ibn al-Hajjaj (d. 875) included 9200
Sunan Abi Da’ud Abu Da’ud (d. 888)
Sunan al-Tirmidhi al-Tirmidhi (d. 892)
Sunan al-Sughra al-Nasa’i (d. 915)
Sunan Ibn Maja Ibn Maja (d. 886)
Just to give you some backgronud after Iran was conquered in the time of Hazrat Umer R.A all the fitna erupted. Hazrat Umer himself burnt lot of Hadith books compiled by many Companion (R.A) saying previous Sharia was distorted because of these kind of books became extra addition in the religion. The good example is Talmud was compiled in addition to Torha (Torait).
Now you decide yourself that if you are dealing with human life then you need to decide from first hand information i.e. Al-Quran, guaranteed by Allah not to change a single word till the day of Judgment or the third hand information that’s hearsay.
Hope you got my point with the open heart and mind.
@Ayub
You clearly seem to be a person who does not believe on Sahih ahadith (Hadith rejector). But I am astonished , then how do you beleive in quran?
Quran was revealed to us through Muhammad(PBUH). So actually quran was transferred to other people through Hadith.Today Quran in book format was compiled after his death.
If there was no need of prophet and and actual interpretation and explanation of the quranic verses through prophet , then I cannot understand the reason of appointing prophets and sent Allah words through them. Why didnt he just put his words in book format , and asked every one to follow it with everyone own understanding.
“And We have sent down unto You the Message so that you may explain clearly to men what is sent for them.” [An-Nahal, 16:44].
“Allah did confer a great favor on the Believers when He sent among them a Messenger from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs (Verses) of Allah, purifying them, instructing them in Scripture, and teaching them Wisdom. While before that they were in manifest error.” [A'ale Imran 3:164].
I also assume that being among munkareen hadith, you dont believe in offering salat the way Prophet did. Would you like to explain , how we should pray when quran time and again asks to offer salat. You believe in Masjid , as this word is given in Quran, but how we will perform salat there?
It is a matter of astonishment that you believe in the story of the Umar(RA) order to burn some of the compiled ahadith but you dont beleive in the sahih ahadith. Where as fact is that Umar himslef changed his some orders on the basis of ahadith when told to him.
Hi @nota
Thanks for pointing out the mistake in ayat number.
@Tauqeer Akbar
How could you not come to say Hello to me?
@razakhan
Thank you for your tafseer. I read both Sunni/Shia tafseers and there is no disagreement on this ayat.
It is though clear that this option is to be used as a last resort.
Hi @nota
Thanks for pointing out the mistake in ayat number.
@Tauqeer Akbar
How could you not come to say Hello to me?
@razakhan
Thank you for your tafseer. I read both S-un-ni/Sh-ia tafseers and there is no disagreement on this ayat.
It is though clear that this option is to be used as a last resort.
I fail to understand what u trying to convey with this article. Is it that flogging and stonning are traditional and similar sentences for fornication and adultry, respectively? I dun think anyone who has read quran can deny that or for that matter Torah. BTW ur argument abt Bible is not right as Paul had declared in 3rd century at Nisa that Shariyaat has been revoked,. The biblical law is now cannon and pope law. They pick and choose from torah and dun prescribed to flogging and stonning for fornication/adultry.
Now back to ur article, i can go on but on one point where u have misinterpretated the ayah clearly is where u denotes zaniya means prostitute and zani the guys who use prostitutes. Dun know where u got this tafseer but its wrong as a zani can be anyone who have fornication with other gender irregardless of money being exchanged, as done in west (now common in pak) called dating and premarital relationship. Thats why 2 words fornication and adultry, prostitute is not a condition. 2nd u said no witnesses r required then how do u charge someone? It is explicitly expalined in quran, by sunnah and by sahaba and its ijma of umma that for hud of fornication or adultry u need 4 witnesses who have seen the act of penetration.
I request u to read some tafseer by renowed scholors and understand that the shariah stands on quran, sunnah, ijma and qayas. All r neccessary.
Some points to ponder for those who cannot free themselves from the spell cast on them by the mullahs and the – nauz billah – maulanas [our masters! Our master is Allah alone, no one else].
1. Have you ever read the WHOLE Qur’an in translation? If you have not, then this is the first thing that you need to do before you engage in a discussion involving Al-Qur’an.
2. Have you read the ahadith books in sufficient depth to be aware of the stories which malign and ridicule Muhammad Rasul-Allah, Rehmatul-lil-aalameen? For example, there are vile anecdotes which turn the greatest man who ever lived into a child molestor, marrying a little girl of 6!
3. Are you aware of the shameful, pornographic stories to be found in the sahih ahaadith, and which contradict the Quraanic injunctions?
4. The Qur’an was revealed gradually over a period of 22 years, during which Rasul-Allah was constantly offering advice and guidance to those who accepted his message. When it was time for Rasul-Allah to leave this world he made sure Allah’s complete Message was committed to writing (using animal skins and other materials).
5. Apart from the Book of Allah, the great glory of Islam was the large number of noble human beings of impeccable characters that Rasul-Allah had trained and guided during his lifetime. When it was time for Allah’s Messenger to go, it was these near perfect human beings who annihilated the mighty but oppressive and unjust Persian and Roman empires of the day.
6. The so-called “sahih ahadith” collections were penned by non-Arabs of Persian/Zoroastrian origin some 250-300 after the death of the Last Messenger of Allah. They were Persian speakers who learnt Arabic but did not necessarily master the Quraish dialect of Arabic in which Al-Qur’an was revealed. The so-called muhaditheen had simply travelled around in Arabia listening to stories in circulation at that time. By then many generations had passed and there were literally hundreds of thousands of false stories attributed to Muhammad Rasul-Allah. These stories had been introduced by the enemies of Islam (Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, kharijis, etc.) and by the corrupt Muslim clergy which manufactured fake anecdotes to curry favour with the self-indulgent monarchs who ruled the expanding Muslim empire (they called themselves ‘khalifah’ but, in practice, they were hereditary kings, power passing from father to son).
7. Hence there are hundreds of ‘sahih ahadith’ which contradict the Qur’anic injunctions. If a person chooses not to reject them then he becomes munkir-e-Qur’an. Decide for yourself if you would rather be a munkir-e-hadees or munkir-e-Qur’an.
8. Lastly, there is a false belief that the complete instructions to perform ritual prayers are given in ahadith. Which hadith? If there were one, the Muslims would have a uniform method of offering prayers, not the wide variety that exists today. Brothers and Sisters, it does not matter how we turn to our Creator to seek His Rehmat and Barkat in our lives – his power is within us and around us and He is aware how sincere we are and He knows our innermost thoughts.
1- How do you come to know that The Qur’an was revealed gradually over a period of 22 years?
2- How do you come to know that he made sure Allah’s complete Message was committed to writing (using animal skins and other materials)?
3- Can you quote me any sahih hadith which contradict any quranic verse?
4- Do you beleive in salat, if so how do you pray it, how many rikkats and how many times per day ? Quran says you should pray at the specified times , how you come to know the specified times?
5- Do you say Assalam-o-alaikum?
6- Do you beleive in zakat, if so how much should we pay and how?
7- How many fastings you observe in Ramdhan and why?
8- Do you beleive in performing hajj, if so how will you perform hajj?
Regarding your objection on Muhammad (PBUH) marriage with Aisha(RA) at early age. Let me describe you some facts.
1- He nikkah was carried out with ayesa when she was 6 but started living with her when she was 9.
2- We dont find any proof, if this marriage was objected in madina or any other place at the time of Muhammad life. Even few 100 years ago , you would not find any such objection . It is because people used to marry their girls at very early age not long ago. But when people started making someage limits for a girl to be married , they raised questions on mohammad marriage because it was the only example found in sahih hadith from the history.
3- There are two points here. a) If a girl cannot be married at the age of 9 ? b) Did muhammad really married ayesha when she was 9?
answer to a): Medically there is no harm in marrying a girl at this age as long as she is menstruating . It is well known that arabic girls reach their adult age quite early than other regions. Still in arab , some girls are being married at this age.
The point is that , presently there is no more culture of marrying girls at early age, so such things look weired to us now other wise medically there is no harm in it.
answer to b): There are number of sahih hadith , which clearly describe the age of ayesha(RA) when she was married. So these are the same sahih hadiths by which we come to know the ages of other prophet wives. So there is no reason to refute all such hadiths.
Narrated ‘Aisha:
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah’s Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for ‘Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13) ——- http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/073.sbt.html
@Tauqeer Akbar
“LOL I dont have to add any thing.”
You missed the best part:
In November 2004, MEMRI threatened Middle East scholar Juan Cole (Univ. of Michigan) with a SLAPP lawsuit unless he retracted some of his claims.
Nature of the charges pace Cole:
“Colonel Carmon’s letter makes three charges: 1) that I alleged that MEMRI receives $60 million a year for its operations. 2) That I alleged that MEMRI cherry-picks the vast Arab press for articles that make the Arabs look bad. 3) That I said that MEMRI was affiliated with the Likud Party.”
Cole replies:
I think he would find that in democratic countries, in any case, a dispute over an organization’s level of funding would be laughed out of court as a basis for a libel action. In fact, I am giggling as I write this.
“I continue to maintain that MEMRI is selective and biased against the Arab press, and that it highlights pieces that cast Arabs, especially committed Muslims, in a negative light.”
“I did not allege that MEMRI or Colonel Carmon are “affiliated” with the Likud Party. What I said was that MEMRI functions as a PR campaign for Likud Party goals.”
MEMRI is operated by a group closely associated with the Israeli intelligence organizations. Now, in an article in Haaretz, we find that the Israeli Army has sought to plant stories about “terrorism” in the press, and
“Psychological warfare officers were in touch with Israeli journalists covering the Arab world, gave them translated articles from Arab papers (which were planted by the [Israel Defense Forces] IDF) and pressed the Israeli reporters to publish the same news here.” –Amos Harel, IDF reviving psychological warfare unit, Haaretz, January 25, 2005.
This should raise a question or two about the reliability and veracity of the stories peddled by MEMRI.
Q-1,I fail to understand what u trying to convey with this article. Is it that flogging and stonning are traditional and similar sentences for fornication and adultry, respectively?
Ans-Please read the article again. You will find the answer.
Q-2,Now back to ur article, i can go on but on one point where u have misinterpretated the ayah clearly is where u denotes zaniya means prostitute and zani the guys who use prostitutes.
Ans-Dear I translated the word from Arabic Dictionary.The word Zaniya means prostitute.The person who is involved in this Haram/Sin is Zani.I have also quoted the example of such Men and Women in the same article.Allah has not asked any witnesses for these people because they are recognised people.
Please answer my question straightly.
1-Does Allah ask in Sura Noor aya 2 four witnesses for 100 lashes to ZANI and ZANIYA ?
2-Does Allah says in Sura Noor Aya 3 to Sangsar/kill the Zania?
3-Does Allah says in whole Quran to Sangsar or Kill the Zani and Zaniya?
Salam un Alaik,
agrana75 said:
@Ayub
You clearly seem to be a person who does not believe on Sahih ahadith (Hadith rejector). But I am astonished , then how do you beleive in quran?
Answer:Please read the following aya and reframe your question on the article but not on my personality.
[49.12] O you who believe! avoid most of suspicion, for surely suspicion in some cases is a sin, and do not spy nor let some of you backbite others. Does one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? But you abhor it; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah, surely Allah is Oft-returning (to mercy), Merciful.
Thanks for understanding.
Ayub
see thats why u shouldn’t use dictionary to understand Quran, the whole law for zina has been advised over time by ALLAH swt so u can’t take individual ayah’;s and decide what dictionary says, one has to take all ayah’s and then make the law and then issue the hud. Hope u understand the concept now, by ur logic ALLAH says in quran, that if u find ur woman committing adultry/fornication u should beat them up and coonfine them to the house till ALLAH decide thier fate? Does its the law now or was it implement by prophet or sahaba, no that was the earlier order which was then revoked and comprehensive order and whole law was given to us. By ur logic i can drink alochol as long as I dun pray while intoxicated, as Quran states dun go near salat while ur intoxicateed but we all know that was the 2nd ayah regarding alochol till society was ready and then order came no more drinking.
The point is dun take the individual ayah translate and make them law, we have established law regarding adultry/fornication esatblished in Quran, precedent set by Prophet himself and by sahaba. We have a ijma on that and we have to follow that.
Those who have written passionately in connection with a controversial “hadith” relating to the alleged “marriage” of a six years old girl, might like to ponder Surah An-Nisaa, aayat 19, which begins with: “O you who have chosen to be graced with belief! It is not lawful for you to force women into marrying, or holding on to them in marriage, against their will”.
Can a six years old child be considered a ‘woman’ who is able to make a decision about her ‘husband’? Since the answer is obviously ‘no’, the “marriage” of a child of 6 is an unlawful forced marriage. As some contributors have pointed out, the little girl alleged to have been forced into such a marriage liked to play with dolls and preferred the company of girls of her age to that of the ‘husband’!
RASUL-ALLAH’S LIFE WAS THE LIVING QUR’AN. WOULD HE TRAMPLE THE QUR’ANIC AAYAAT UNDERFOOT?
Here we have an extreme example of a “sahih ahadith” story contradicting the Quraanic aayaat. You must accept one or the other, THERE IS NO WAY OUT. You are either a MUNKIR-E-QUR’AN or a MUNKIR-E-HADEES.
You will find many more contradictions in the six ahadith collections which are generally regarded as authentic by a lot of Muslims. But please, please read the WHOLE Qur’an in translation first.
Do you not see that vile stories like the Messenger of Allah marrying a girl of 6 were designed to cover up the monstrous deeds of perverts in positions of great influence? We should only accept those ahadees which are free of any element of contradiction with the Qur’anic injunctions. What is so mind boggling is the attitude of people who call themselves Muslim but who happily tolerate the humiliation and ridicule of Allah’s Last Messenger out of fear of offending their religious leaders.
@Aseer.
Can you quote any hadith, mentioning that ayesha was not happy over this marriage, or Muhammad(PBUH) forcibly married her ?
Can you tell me the exact age of a woman when she is able to make a decision about her husband? What is the criteria for a woman to make this decision?
We know that socities where women are given the freedom to choose their husbands and mostly women are married at the age of about 27, the divorce rate is very high. Here, In USA the divorce rate is 70%, even the girls spend lot of time with their bfs before marriage to know each other. This experiment continues with many guys and at the end when she marries some one it ends in divorce usually.
@Ayub:
This was not personal. But the conclusion after your following comments
“After the complete revelation of Quran there is no such practice can be done.How can it be possible while Allah has completed the revelation on Prophet pbuh and it does not consist any aya of Stone to Death.While it is clearly mentioned in Bible.”
So if someone doesnt believe in sahih hadith then it raises many questions. Quran cannot be interpretated Completely with out knowing the exaplantion told by muhammad(PBUH). Otherwise, every one would extract his own meanings.
I have asked fewquestions in one of my above comments , what happens if someone doesnt think that Sahih hadiths are important ..
I have read a lot about sects and the differences among them. I always wondered why people beleiving the same quran and messenger divided into sects. Truly speaking, there is no contradiction over the sahih hadiths. The problem is only in the blind following of Imams and scholars. We interpret the quran and other islamic matters in the light of our sect, Imam and not in the light of ahadiths. All sects beleive in the sahih ahadiths (talking about just sunni sects). But when some hadith contradicts our sect, we simply reject it and follow what Imam said.
Dear razakhan Salam un alaik: Brother you said:”see thats why u shouldn’t use dictionary to understand Quran, the whole law for zina has been advised over time by ALLAH swt so u can’t take individual ayah’;s and decide what dictionary says”
“Answer:-I have checked all the ayat in Quran then I translated this word from the dictionary.This word is mentioned in Quran three times and the translation is 100% correct in all the ayat.
Brother-e-mohtaram you did not answer my questions?
Please answer my question straightly.
1-Does Allah ask in Sura Noor aya 2 four witnesses for 100 lashes to ZANI and ZANIYA ?
2-Does Allah says in Sura Noor Aya 3 to Sangsar/kill the Zania?
3-Does Allah says in whole Quran to Sangsar or Kill the Zani and Zaniya?
@ayub
dude u not getting the point, dun take indvidual ayah’s duhh wats so hard to understand.
R u a mufti? r u an islamic scholor, u r trying to post ur view that has not been advised by any one of a learned scholor of Islam and worst u r doing it by nitpicking ayah I gave u an example
Donot go to a mosque(for prayers) intoxicated or after having touched a woman…4:43
Intoxicants (wine and spirit) and gambling are Satan’s handiwork, avoid them…5:90
These are two quranic verses regarding consumption of wine. In one verse, Allah is just forbidding wine when go for prayers but in the second verse Allah is forbidding wine completely by saying it a satan’s handiwork . Now without consulting Sahih ahadiths, can you explain why there is a contradiction in the verses.
Brother agrana75: maybe Allah has created you to test my patience! Brother what exactly is bothering you? The two aayahs you refer to are consistent and free of contradictions. Let us look at them:
An-Nisaa (4:43)
O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! Join not the Salaat congregation if your mind is beclouded for any reason, until you understand what you utter, else you might say senseless words that disturb the assembly. Physical cleanliness contributes to moral purity. So, take a bath after ceremonial impurity (postcoital state) If you are traveling, or are ill, or coming from the privy, and cannot find water, take a little clean sand or earth and lightly rub your faces and hands, before entering the Masjid.
Al-Maaedah (5:90)
O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! Intoxicants and gambling and games of chance, sacrificing animals on stones (altars of idols) and forecasting the future by such means as arrows, raffles and omens (all) is an immoral handiwork of Satan. Refrain from it that you may prosper.
The first aayah above applies quite generally and it includes all sorts of situations which can affect a person’s presence of mind. For example, it would include the case of a husband who whiles away the hours of the night making love to his wife; when the muazzan calls out in the morning the sleeping man may find himself quite drunk with sleep, having slept only briefly. He shouldn’t just jump out of bed and stagger sleepily into the mosque!
Dee mu’azzan ne shab-e-vasl azaaN pichhli raat
Haaye kumbakht ko kis vaqt Khuda yaad aaya!
The second aayah is specifically about intoxicants AND several other vices (gambling, blood sacrifices, etc.).
@Aseer:
I cannot control my laughs after reading your interpretation of these two verses, especially the first one.
In arabic , the word “sukara” is used for the intoxicated , drunken etc and you just twisted it to your own meanings and applied it as a general rule. Let’s suppose , your interpretation is correct. So it emplies , whenever someone feel sleepy, he shouldnt offer prayer. Either it is morning or afternoon or any other prayer. Drunkeness and sleepiness are quite two different states. And you just mingle up both of these. Let me expalin it in the light of sahih hadiths.
There are many matters found in quran , which initially were not prohibited or banned completely initially but later on they were banned ( called abroagtion). Intoxication is one of them.
4:43 verse was revealed before the prohibition of the alcohal completely :
Once Ali(RA) and other sahaba were invited at a place where they were offered food and alocohal. At prayer time , people asked Ali(RA) to lead prayer. He recited Surah Al-kafroon wronlgy. Upon this mistake , this verse was revealed.. ( Sahih tarmizi, 3026, ibn dawood, tafsir ibnekasir etc)
5:90 In this verse the alcohal was completely banned.
Quranic interpretation, without sahih hadiths often lead to a wrong path you should also
be careful , in interpretation of Quran.. you were trying to make a new rule that if you are sleepy dont go to the mosque…(funniest thing i ever heard)
The stoned death is a lso one of those orders which were later on explained by sunnah. this is now Islamic rule that any unmarried person commiting adultery will be punished 100 lashes and the married people will get stoned death.
I am stonished what do you do in the mosque when you dont beleive in the sahih hadith , how do you offer prayer there? there is no quranic verse explaining the method of salat..
My point of all this discussion is that,
1- You are trying to enforce the meaning of “zani” and “zania” as who are professional prostitutes or who commit it time and again. For rest of the people who commit adultery, there is no punishment…lolz ..after how many times one committing adultery will be called professional or “habitual” criminal and then he deserves for 100 lashes?
2- How do you interpret Allah orders of cutting hand of the theif in Quran (5:38). If this points to the theif who is habitual of theft or any one who steal even first time?
Dear razakhan/agrana75 Salam un Alaikum,
Please answer my question straightly.
1-Does Allah ask in Sura Noor aya 2 four witnesses for 100 lashes to ZANI and ZANIYA ?
2-Does Allah says in Sura Noor Aya 3 to Sangsar/kill the Zania?
3-Does Allah says in whole Quran to Sangsar or Kill the Zani and Zaniya?
The answers of all your queries would be clarified in above questions.
——————————————————————–
Brother you are debating with me about the explaination of Quran through Sahih Hadith.But you are not quoting any single Hadith which was taught by Prophet PBUH to SAHABA KARAM in the expalination of Sura Noor 24 aya 2 and 3.
Please quote such Hadith which was specifically addressing the ayat because The duty of Prophet Mohammad was to RECITE AND EXPLAIN EACH AND EVERY WORD OF THE AYAT OF ALLAH.
Please try to find out those Sahih Hadith.You have not quoted any Hadith which expalins the quoted ayat in the article.
Do you say the following Hadith is explaining the word ZANIYA AND ZANI?
Kindly analyze the following:
Malik :: Book 41 : Hadith 41.1.6
Malik related to me from ….One of them said, “Messenger of Allah! Judge between us by the Book of Allah!” The other said, and he was the wiser of the two, “Yes, Messenger of Allah. Judge between us by the Book of Allah …….., I will judge between you by the Book of Allah. ……” He ordered Unays al-Aslami to go to the wife of the other man and to stone her if she confessed . She confessed and he stoned her.
Analysis:-1-“Messenger of Allah! Judge between us by the Book of Allah!”
2-”I will judge between you by the Book of Allah.”
Brother-e-Mohtaram: How it is possible that Rasool pbuh said “I will judge between you by the Book of Allah.” The Book of Allah does not contain any aya for Stone To Death.
Please analyse every thing which you are quoting and forcing us to believe.
sorry no point talking to u, so carry on as u dun have either the intellect or basic understanding of Islam once again I urge u to get a tafseer and read it. I can recommed, tafseer ibn-e-kaseer, tafheem-ul-quran or dr. Israr ahmed
Dear razakhan/agrana75 Salam un Alaikum,
Masha Allah Allah has revealed the truth in the following ayat.In all time people are stuck with there forefathers concepts and beliefs.
But you can judge any Hadith(concepts and beliefs) through the ayat as Sahih Hadith. Quran is the FURQAN/CRITERIA to judge between SAHIH and Non SAHIH Hadith.
[27.92] And that I should recite the Quran. Therefore whoever goes aright, he goes aright for his own soul, and whoever goes ‘ astray, then say: I am only one of the warners.
[2.170] And when it is said to them, Follow what Allah has revealed, they say: Nay! we follow what we found our fathers upon. What! and though their fathers had no sense at all, nor did they follow the right way.
Dear razakhan Salam un Alaik,
There are two choices for us 1-Momineen and 2- Zalimeen.
[17.82] And We reveal fromthe Quran that which is a healing and a mercy to the Momineen, and it adds only loss to Zalimeen.
The Definition of Zalimeen:-
[18.57] And who is more ZALIM than he who is reminded the Ayat of his RUBB, then he turns away from them and forgets what his two hands have sent before? Surely We have placed veils over their hearts lest they should understand it and a heaviness in their ears; and if you call them to the guidance, they will not ever follow the right course in that case.
@ayub
u not the 1st nor will be last who insist on not counting hadith and nitpicking ayats, greater minds b4 u have tried and failed so carry on
aey nabi tumharee jaan ki qasam yeh os waqt tak musalman nahi bun saktey jab tak jis cheez se tum inhain rukoo yeh ruk na jain aur jiz cheez ki tum inhain ijazat do yeh kar na lain. – Al-quran
I suggest u read Sunnat ki aaini haisiyaat by maulana maududi to open ur mind.
I 1st thought u had made honest mistake, now i see what u trying to propagate and I feel pity for u. I can quote from quran to u abt the ppl who twist the word of God but it will be useless may ALLAH grant u hidayat.
Anyhoo since u neither a scholor not a learned man this debate is over. U have misinterpretated quran and twisted it and that btween u n ALLAH and anyone who got misguided by ur interpretation, u would have to be answerable 4 that too.
Dear sir, I urge u to remove this article as it misguides, misinterpretates intently the ayah of Quran and the hudood law. Anyone who gets misguided u will be as answerable to ALLAH as the author as ur website is propagating that. If u have any doubt abt my claim plz read hudood law as explained in numerous articles if u need references am willing to provide.
WA ATEE ULLAHA WA ATEEUR RASSUL – Obey ALLAH n obey Prophet
Its ijma of muslims that QURAN AND hadith makes up sharia.
We sent no Messenger, but to be obeyed by Allah’s Leave. (Quran 4:64)
But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad ) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission. (Quran 4:65)
And whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger (PBUH) he has indeed achieved a great achievement (i.e. he will be saved from the Hell-fire and made to enter Paradise). (Quran 33:71)
Now i have few question to all of you.
If obeying (ittebah) of Muhammad is not mandatory for us then why Allah again n again insisting on it?
Why didnt he just said ” obey my orders given in Quran” ?
Why did Allah Revealed quran in 23 years through messengers?
why didnt he just put the quran in book format in front of people and asked them to follow.. ?
what is the purpose of a messenger?
Now some Ahadith regarding the current issue.
Narrated Zaid bin Khalid al—Juhani: I heard the Prophet ordering that an unmarried person guilty of sexual intercourse be flogged one hundred stripes and be exiled for one year. (Bukhari 8:6831; see also 8:6833)
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah al—Ansari: A man from the tribe of Bani Aslam came to Allah’s Messenger [Muhammad] and informed him that he had committed illegal sexual intercourse; and he bore witness four times against himself. Allah’s Messenger ordered him to be stoned to death as he was a married person (Bukhari 8:6814; see also 8:6825; 8:6829)
A woman came to the Prophet and asked for purification by seeking punishment. He told her to go away and seek God’s forgiveness. She persisted four times and admitted she was pregnant. He told her to wait until she had given birth. Then he said that the Muslim community should wait until she had weaned her child. When the day arrived for the child to take solid food, Muhammad handed the child over to the community.
And when he had given command over her and she was put in a hole up to her breast, he ordered the people to stone her. Khalid b. al—Walid came forward with a stone which he threw at her head, and when the blood spurted on his face he cursed her . . . (Muslim no. 4206)
@ayub
In your article you presented the Quranic verses without quoting their backgrounds, interpreted with your own meanings saying that this punishment is for prostitutes and this is for non prostitutes..
Now regarding your question:
1-Does Allah ask in Sura Noor aya 2 four witnesses for 100 lashes to ZANI and ZANIYA ?
A).If you read this ayat with reference to ahadith, you will get you answer.
2-Does Allah says in Sura Noor Aya 3 to Sangsar/kill the Zania?
A). Again read the prophet sayings and his actions after revealation of this verse.
3-Does Allah says in whole Quran to Sangsar or Kill the Zani and Zaniya?
A).Yes, Allah says ; they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad ) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission. (Quran 4:65)
Now , If you dont beleive in Ahadith then I have few questions..
1- Azan is mentioned in the Quran but no method is described, how one should do it?
2- You failed to answer my question that how you perform salat , when there is no method given in the quran?
3- How you will pay zakat, what should be the rate?
4- How do you will perform Hajj?
5- How do you observe fasting?
Brother, What is your problem , in following Muhammad(PBUH)?
May Allah save us from all the fitnas of rejecting Sahih ahadith and guide us to follow the true Islam.
Salam un Alaik Dear agrana75:-
Your reaction against me is not justified.
Kindly do not flood in the room I am answering all your queiries related to the article only.You did not quote any Hadith related to my article where I have translated the word Zaniya.
I have already told you . Quran is the FURQAN/CRITERIA to judge between SAHIH and Non SAHIH Hadith.”
Do you accept this criteria?I accept Sahih Hadith.
—————————————————————————
1-Does Allah ask in Sura Noor aya 2 four witnesses for 100 lashes to ZANI and ZANIYA ?
A).If you read this ayat with reference to ahadith, you will get you answer.
PLEASE QUOTE THE HADITH WHICH YOU ARE REFFERING TO READ.
—————————————————————————–
Brother you are debating with me about the explaination of Quran through Sahih Hadith.But you are not quoting any single Hadith which was taught by Prophet PBUH to SAHABA KARAM in the expalination of Sura Noor 24 aya 2 and 3.
Please quote such Hadith which was specifically addressing the ayat because The duty of Prophet Mohammad was to RECITE AND EXPLAIN EACH AND EVERY WORD OF THE AYAT OF ALLAH.
You have not quoted any Hadith which expalins the quoted ayat in the article.
—————————————————————————–
Analysis:-1-“Messenger of Allah! Judge between us by the Book of Allah!”
2-”I will judge between you by the Book of Allah.”
Brother-e-Mohtaram: How it is possible that Rasool pbuh said “I will judge between you by the Book of Allah.”
The Book of Allah does not contain any aya for Stone To Death.
—————————————————————————-
Please do not try to be extremist but discuss intlectually. There is a need to research the concepts of SECTS taught in the name of Islam.Do not be angry.The ATTITUDE is the key to understand the research work of a common muslim.
Allah says: Sura 47-24 “Do they not ponder on Quran or the hearts are LOCKED up.”
Again Salam un Alaik wa rehamat ullahe wa barakatuhu:-
“agrana75 said
Brother, What is your problem , in following Muhammad(PBUH)?
May Allah save us from all the fitnas of rejecting Sahih ahadith and guide us to follow the true Islam.”
If I will follow BIBLE then you will accept me the follower of Prophet Mohammad.Its amazing.
I follow Quran and Sunnah that is why you are calling me FITNA.
Prophet Mohammad is saying as:-
Sura 27 Aya 91- And that I should recite the Quran. whoever recieve GUIDENCE, so he recieved GUIDENCE for his own soul, and whoever goes ‘ astray, then say: I am only one of the warners.
IF YOU FOLLOW THE MESSENGER THEN YOU WILL FOLLOW ALLAH BECAUSE MESSENGER IS RECITING QURAN FOR THE GUIDENCE OF MANKIND.
I am following Rasool PBUH Masha Allah.I also invite you to follow please.
“razakhan said:
summun bukmun umyun wala mamla hai yahan”
Dear brother I would like to present this aya in front of your EYES (to read),EAR (to listen)and TONGUE (to talk).
[2.2] That is The Book, (Al-Kitab) there is no doubt in it,guidance to those who guard (against evil).
Now brother this is your test to READ/TALK/LISTEN the Book of Allah and believe that there is no book which is a guidence for MUTAQEEN.And also there is no book which is doubt free.If you think against then read as:-
“summun bukmun umyun wala mamla hai yahan”
[2.18] Deaf, dumb (and) blind, so they will not turn back.
razakhan/ agrana75:
Dear Brother you are supposed to follow the SUNNAH mentioned in following aya:-
[Quran,al-An`am 6:54] When those come to you(Prophet) who believe with Our Ayat/signs,So say: “Peace be on you”(Salam un alaikum):
(Qur’an, An-Nisa 4:86) “And when you are greeted with a greeting, greet in return with what is better than it, or (at least) return it equally.”
My greeting in the end is to you all SALAM UN ALAIKUM WA REHMAT ULLAHE WA BRAKATUHU.
Now you have to return greeting more than this.
Ayub
razakhan
Prophet Mohammad is saying as:-
Sura 27 Aya 91- And that I should recite the Quran. whoever recieve GUIDENCE, so he recieved GUIDENCE for his own soul, and whoever goes ‘ astray, then say: I am only one of the warners.
IF YOU FOLLOW THE MESSENGER THEN YOU WILL FOLLOW ALLAH BECAUSE MESSENGER IS RECITING QURAN FOR THE GUIDENCE OF MANKIND.
Brother Ayub: Judging from the patience – sabar-e-Ayub – you have shown here your name is very apt indeed!
Pakistan – and most ‘Muslim countries’ – are, in practice, not Islamic at all. An unjust, corrupt and oppressive society is essentially the antithesis of Deen-e-Islam, a Way of Life as explained in the Qur’an. Most Pakistanis follow Islam only as a religion – mazhab – which is dominated by a bewildering collection of rites and rituals put together, not by Allah and not by his Last Messenger, but by self-styled ‘imams’ and ‘maulanas’.
In Al-Quran we are told to follow and obey Muhammad Rasul-Allah, Rehmatul-lil-aalameen but people perversely follow others and they pathetically justify their hypocritical behaviour by attributing false stories to Allah’s Messenger. They may end up – as you have pointed out – obeying the Bible but they will most certainly be disobeying Allah’s Rasul who told his followers to hold fast to the Book of Allah. I have previously quoted from the Qur’an where people are told not to look for a hadith outside the Qur’an
In an earlier post I gave an extreme example of a contradiction between a false story related to Rasul-Allah and an aayat in the Qur’an but the response I got from a munkir-e-Qur’an was: show that the child bride of 6 years was unhappy with her marriage! Is it possible for a person to so completely lose his sense of morals and fail to see that the Quraanic aayat was concerned with the prospective bride having the mental and physical maturity to make a decision about her husband.
This gentleman – agrana75 – has been arguing just for the sake of argument, taking great liberties with the Qur’anic aayaat. He seems quite unable to see the guidance that is contained in an aayat, and which is to form a part of the Deen that we follow in practice.
Thus, for example, the aayat (4:43) is concerned with mental and physical cleanliness IN CONGREGATIONAL PRAYERS and offers appropriate guidance. The mind must be clear and alert and the body must be clean (requiring a thorough wash after sexual union). I tried my hand at humour with the gentleman but it was probably a waste of time.
The other aayat (5:90) is not about the congregational prayers at all. This lays down various rules for us to follow in our lives.
Argumentative people get themselves into a tangle by trying to relate Qur’anic verses to “ahadith” and miss the Message that stares them in the face!
Al-Quran is CLEAR GUIDANCE for us to follow in life. That is why it is essential to read the Qur’an in translation. In fact, Al-Quran has made it a duty for each Muslim to ponder over the verses of the Qur’an and not to accept things thoughtlessly. I wonder if agrana75 will care to do a bit of investigative work and discover where this requirement is mentioned in the Qur’an?
I fully agree with razakhan that this article should be removed as it is clearly against the teahings of Islam. This article is totally misguiding the people. The author tried to enforce his own interpretation ignoring all the sahih ahadiths and continous practice of Ummat (Ijma) through out the history. The first ones who rejected the prophet orders were Kharjee and these days these hadith rejectors are working in the name of parvaizee , ghamdee etc.
‘Ubada b. as-Samit reported: Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Receive (teaching) from me, receive (teaching) from me. Allah has ordained a way for those (women). When an unmarried male commits adultery with an unmarried female (they should receive) one hundred lashes and banishment for one year. And in case of married male committing adultery with a married female, they shall receive one hundred lashes and be stoned to death.
@ayub and @Aseer :
And the people like you it was laready predicted:
Saheeh Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Number 816:
Narrated Ibn ‘Abbas:
‘Umar said, “I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, “We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book,” and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he is already married and the crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession.” Sufyan added, “I have memorized this narration in this way.” ‘Umar added, “Surely Allah’s Apostle carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him.”
Sunnat-e-nabvi is the part of the Sharia..Quran is the complete guidance and explanation by Prohpet (PBUH) is the essential part of quran.
I again repeat my questions for the last time, if you fail to answer , it means you are just creating fitna:
1- How do you offer salat according to Quran? How many Rakkats, what time , what should be recited? What is the difference between an individual prayer and congregational prayer.? How do you offer janazah prayer? How do you offer Eid prayer?
2- How we should offer Hajj, according to Quran?
3- How should muslims call Azan?
4- How one should observe fasting?
Brother agrana75: It is now quite clear from the large number of posts you have contributed that you have acquired your knowledge of Islam from books on Islam written by various people. Please, brother, read the WHOLE Qur’an in translation which will open up a world of knowledge of which you are unaware.
You were asked a very simple question about your knowledge of the Qur’an which you have been unable to answer. As you continue your search, please now pay attention to the following aayaat from the Qur’an:
(2:242): Thus, Allah makes His revelations clear for you. Now, it is up to you to use your intellect.
(8:22): The worst of creations in the sight of Allah are the deaf and the dumb, those who do not use their intellect.
(25:30): And the Messenger will say, “O My Lord! These are my people, the ones who had disabled this Qur’an making it of no account.”
[Mahjoor = Disabled = Abandoned = Neglected. They had immobilized it like villagers who bind a cow by tying her front foot to her horn]
(31:6) But among people, there are those who invest their time in Hadith which is unfounded, so as to lead those without knowledge away from the Path of God, making mockery of it (the Qur’an). For such there is shameful punishment in store.
[In order to defend the ‘Imams’ of Hadith, some commentators try to explain away Lahwal Hadith as music. This obviously makes no linguistic or contextual sense]
(31:7) Whenever Our verses are conveyed to such a purchaser of Hadith, he turns away in arrogance as if he never heard them – as if there were deafness in his ears. So give him the tidings of a painful doom.
(45:6): These are the verses of God We convey to you with Truth. Then, in what HADITH, if not in God and His verses, will they believe?
6:115): Perfected is the word of your Lord in truth and justice. None can change His words and His laws. This announcement comes to you from the profound Hearer, the Knower.
As for ‘sahih ahadees’, no hadees can be regarded as ‘sahih’ which contradicts any part of the Qur’an. This is the primary criterion of whether or not a hadees can be accepted as valid. All other criteria are subservient to this fundamental rule irrespective of whichever collection the hadees comes from.
Let us now end this fruitless discussion. I will just say this about brother Ayub’s post: I do not know if his interpretation is right or wrong but he is entitled to follow the Qur’anic injunction to ponder over Allah’s Message for himself. If I had been a legislator I would have read Ayub Khan’s post critically and offered my sincere conclusions for further discussion. Since I am not a legislator the subject that brother Ayub raises is only of theoretical interest, especially as today’s Pakistani society bears little resemblance to the Islam presented in the Qur’an.
I hope brother agrana75 that you will now stop your unseemly attacks. You do not seem to realize that your religious zeal has taken you so close to rejecting the Message of the Qur’an.
May we all receive Allah’s Hidayat, Rehmat and Barkat in our lives.
@Aseer:
I asked very simple questions. But you started criticizing Hadith e Rasool. Where ever you find word “Hadith” in Quran , you just referred it to Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) actions and sayings. Can you show me any verse where, Allah says that dont follow Muhammad(PBUH) and just follow words given in quran.?
Where ever I quoted number of verses regarding obeying the Muhammad(PBUH) like
Who so ever obeys Allah and His Messenger (PBUH) he has indeed achieved a great achievement (i.e. he will be saved from the Hell-fire and made to enter Paradise). (Quran 33:71)
“And We have sent down unto You the Message so that you may explain clearly to men what is sent for them.” [An-Nahal, 16:44].
“Allah did confer a great favor on the Believers when He sent among them a Messenger from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs (Verses) of Allah, purifying them, instructing them in Scripture, and teaching them Wisdom. While before that they were in manifest error.” [A'ale Imran 3:164].
Now how you will obey Muhammad? By rejecting his orders and considering yourself to be more intellectual , will you invent your own ways of offering Salat, fasting, performing hajj etc?
Do you think , Muhammad (PBUH) did all the things at his own and now we are not bound to follow his orders?
How you are sure that this quran is authentic? After all this quran was revealed through Prophet and Sahaba believed his hadith, copy the verses what ever he said. and later on sahaba compiled it .
In one comments above you quoted that he made sure Allah’s complete Message was committed to writing (using animal skins and other materials), how you come to know that he made sure and how do you know they used animal skins and other materials? Quran doesnt mention that in how many years its revelation was completed but you said it was in 22 years . No where it is mentioned in Quran that People wrote quran on animal skins etc.
There is no contradiction in the Prophet sayings and the quranic verses but only in your mind. Sahih ahadith just explains the quranic verses as said in the [An-Nahal, 16:44]. So quran and prophet sayings are mandatory to each other. Quran has elaborated it many times but if you dont want to ponder those verses, its your fate.
Love for prophet is mentioned in many times.. how you will love him? if by following his sunnah or inventing your own ways? If his sunnah then how you will come to know his sunnah?
You failed to answer my questions that how you will perform basic islamic virtues like Salat, Hajj, Zakat, fastings when no clear method of all these are given in quran.
How you will take “gusl-e-farz”.. if it is mandatory to remove armpit hairs, pubic hairs or not, if it is when, Quran just mentions “taharah” , how you will explain it ?
Will you do circumcision of your child, if so why, when Quran doesnt impose such things?
I know you dont have answer to these question, so this debate is over .
Salam un alaik agrana75
Kindly read my article and I have already quoted the Bible but now compare your quoted Riwayat which was written after 240 years of Prophet Mohammad which exactly in the light of BIBLE.
Leviticus 20:10
10 ” ‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
Deuteronomy 22:24
24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
The source of Stone to Death is the Bible not the Quran which was recited by Prophet Mohammad pbuh.
My humble request is that analyse the Riwayaat in the light of Quran.
Salam un Alaik Brother Aseer
YOU WROTE:
“I will just say this about brother Ayub’s post: I do not know if his interpretation is right or wrong but he is entitled to follow the Qur’anic injunction to ponder over Allah’s Message for himself. If I had been a legislator I would have read Ayub Khan’s post critically and offered my sincere conclusions for further discussion.”
If you have some time please read my article.
Again Salam un Alaik wa rehamat ullahe wa barakatuhu:-
agrana75 said:
@Ayub and @Aseer
Sunnat-e-nabvi is the part of the Sharia..Quran is the complete guidance and explanation by Prohpet (PBUH) is the essential part of quran.
Dear,
If I will follow BIBLE then you will accept me the follower of Prophet Mohammad.Its amazing.
I follow Quran and Sunnah that is why you are calling me FITNA.
Prophet Mohammad is saying as:-
Sura 27 Aya 91- And that I should recite the Quran. whoever recieve GUIDENCE, so he recieved GUIDENCE for his own soul, and whoever goes ‘ astray, then say: I am only one of the warners.
IF YOU FOLLOW THE MESSENGER THEN YOU WILL FOLLOW ALLAH BECAUSE MESSENGER IS RECITING QURAN FOR THE GUIDENCE OF MANKIND.
I am following Rasool PBUH Masha Allah.I also invite you to follow please.
“Aseer said:
Brother Ayub: Judging from the patience – sabar-e-Ayub – you have shown here your name is very apt indeed! ”
Thanks for complement.This is the Sunnah of the Prophet.
Dear Brother Allah says:
[3.186] You shall certainly be tried respecting your wealth and your souls, and you shall certainly hear from those who have been given the Book before you and from those who are polytheists MUCH ANNOYING TALK; and if you are PATIENT and guard (against evil), surely this is one of the affairs (which should be) determined upon.
Dear Aseer kindly read this aya in the Quran in arabic then you will find the true essence of PATIENCE.
Before I give my detailed response to your article, I have some side Questions:
1-What are your beliefs about Jihad, when does it become obligatory on muslims?
2-Is it Physical(Qital), if not, what is it?
3-What actions to take against Munafiqeen/Kufar according to Quran?
4-What should be done with people, who take Kufar as their helpers/friends?
5-Last but not least, What do you guys think of all the 90% people who are not adherent to your mindset- meaning they subscribe to Quran+Sahih Hadith of the Prophet (PBUH), instead of just Quran for learning and practicing of Islam ???
I would really appreciate, if you can answer my above questions. I have seen in the past, you guys just answer to the questions which you guys choose to answer and avoid all other valid questions. This time, i am expecting answers to all the above questions from you, If you may.
You both are just beating about the bushes.. agrana75 and other guys asked you very simple and straight forward questions but you failed to answer those..
Originally the bible was also Allah’s Book, though chiristians have changed it lot but if something found in bible is also part of islamic shariah, it doesnt mean we should reject it . Do you have any proof that muslims adopted stoned to death issue through bible. There are number of similarities between quran and Bible, does it mean Muslims added them after inspiring from Bible?
Read the quran for whole Sabr-e-ayub ..I couldnt understand , what type of “sabr” you are observing here?. what is the similarity b/w your sabr and the messenger Ayub?
”
“Aseer said:
Brother Ayub: Judging from the patience – sabar-e-Ayub – you have shown here your name is very apt indeed! ”
Thanks for complement.This is the Sunnah of the Prophet. ”
So you finally admitted sunnah of the prophet? I wonder on one side you dont beleive on sunnah and on other side you are quoting Sunnah of the prophet.
Why you people , are keeping names like muslims, I cannot find any verse where allah asked to keep such names.. why dont you name you and your children like David, michael, Julie etc. Can you quote any verse where you find some direction to keep names?
Dear Salam un Alaik,
“ghayoor said:
Originally the bible was also Allah’s Book, though chiristians have changed it lot but if something found in bible is also part of islamic shariah, it doesnt mean we should reject it . Do you have any proof that muslims adopted stoned to death issue through bible. There are number of similarities between quran and Bible, does it mean Muslims added them after inspiring from Bible?”
Dear brother thank you very much for accepting that you believe and follow Bible in the name of Islamic Shariah, you read all above discussion you will not find any person boldly accepted as you accepted.
Now you read my article and you wil; find exactly which I have pointed out that STONE TO DEATH is a Biblical Law not the Quranic Law.
You also said:
“chiristians have changed it lot but if something found in bible is also part of islamic shariah,”
1-Do you agree that the Quran is the Furqan to judge between “The word of Allah” and “The word of human being”mentioned in any book claimed as the Book of Allah?
2-Do you have any research work on that portion of BIBLE which you believe as still unchanged in The BIBLE?
3- Do you think that Quran is incomplete and can not be understood with out the help of BIBLE.
Because this is the faith of Jews and Chiristians that Quran can not be understood without the help of BIBLE.
Regarding the Sunnah you commented “So you finally admitted sunnah of the prophet? I wonder on one side you dont beleive on sunnah and on other side you are quoting Sunnah of the prophet.”
Dear brother this is your allegation.Please read the above discussion to clarify your doubt about the Sunnah.
Why you people , are keeping names like muslims, I cannot find any verse where allah asked to keep such names.. why dont you name you and your children like David, michael, Julie etc. Can you quote any verse where you find some direction to keep names?
Dear brother for above comments.I will only say “SALAM UN ALAIKUM WA REHMAT ULLAHE WA BARAKATUHU”.May Allah send on you and your family PEACE AND MERCY FROM HIS BOUNTY by forgiving you on the comment”I cannot find any verse where allah asked to keep such names.”
[17.82] And We reveal from the Quran that which is a healing and a mercy to the Momineen, and it adds only loss to Zalimeen.
Note:-There are two choices for us 1-Mercy and 2- Loss.
If you want to search guidence for the NAMES, Insha Allah Allah will guide you.
Dear brother Salam un Alaik,
“anti_democratic said: Before I give my detailed response to your article, I have some side Questions:”
1-(a)What are your beliefs about Jihad,
(b) when does it become obligatory on muslims?
2-Is it Physical(Qital), if not, what is it?
3-What actions to take against Munafiqeen/Kufar according to Quran?
4-What should be done with people, who take Kufar as their helpers/friends?
5-Last but not least, What do you guys think of all the 90% people who are not adherent to your mindset- meaning they subscribe to Quran+Sahih Hadith of the Prophet (PBUH), instead of just Quran for learning and practicing of Islam ???
I would really appreciate, if you can answer my above questions.”
———————————————————————————
Dear brother I am giving you answers but you have to do your home work from the Quran to contradict the answers intlectually not emotionally.You will have to demonstrate the patience to understand the answer one by one.
The answers would be the test of SABAR.
Answrs-1(a)[Sura Furqan 25-52] So do not follow the Kafreen, and JIHAD against them a JIHAD-un-KABEERA with it(QURAN).
Analysis:”JIHAD-un-KABEERA with it(QURAN).”
Allah has not mentioned in the AYA with the Quran but with the SWORD is not mentioned in the aya. I would also clarify you that the word SWORD ( in arabic SAIF) is not mentioned in any aya in the Quran. But the amazing thing is that in the BIBLE it is mentioned in 404 verses.Read as follows the religion of Jews and Chistians just three examples out of 404.
# Exodus 32:27
And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.
# Genesis 31:26
And Laban said to JACOB, What hast thou done, that thou hast stolen away unawares to me, and carried away my daughters, as captives taken with the SWORD?
# Genesis 34:25
And it came to pass on the third day, when they were sore, that two of the sons of Jacob, Simeon and Levi, Dinah’s brethren, took each man his SWORD, and came upon the city boldly, and slew all the males.
Please comment on first answer of your question part (a).
Thanks
@Ayub:
You should fear Allah, what are you talking about Jihad ? Are you mad ? Are you in your senses, or you are doing all this deliberately?
You first failed to my answers regarding, how you will perfrom basic virtues and now you just refuted one of the fundamental shariah law ” Jihad bil Qattal”….dont you believe all the quranic verses in Surah Al, ahzab, Al-nifal, Surah Tubah etc .. do you refute all the wars fought by Muhammad, Sahaba and other muslims against the Kufr?
If you are right in thinking that there is no jihad bil qattal in islam then do you think all those muslims did “kufr” including Muhammad and his sahaba, who killed many non mulsim soldiers in wars ?
Do you think your understanding about Quran is better than Muhammad and his sahaba?
[Sura Furqan 25-52] : This verse was revealed in Makkah when still Jihad bil Qattal was not allowed.. and you just twisted it to your own Jewish meaning, forgetting all other hundreds of verses on Jahad and Qattal..
Now go and read QURAN, I am just quoting few references :
[3:13]–”tuqatelu fee sabeelillah” .
[3:121-127], [3:140-145],[3:152-155][3:165-175][9:123] ..”Qatelu …”
Read the Surah Al Anfal, Al Ahzab, AtToba to get the true meaning of Jahad…
Do you know, What is meaning of “Anfal”?
Do you know the reason, why there is no Bismillah before Surah Tobah?
Learn Arabic first and then read the Quran instead of the translation by some “Pervaizee (Hadith rejector)” ..
The references you quoted from bible have nothing to do with order of fight with sword.Instead all the above are just telling some stories about the past and you just interpreted it as Jhahd bil saif is actually order of Bible and not Quran…Lolz, Wat a funny arguement you gave.
your argument is just like the argument of Christians who say that word Eisa in Quran more number of times than Muhammad , so Christianity is true..
Where as every one knows that there is no concept of Holy war in Christianity but only in Jewish and Islam.
Islamic holy war is not limited to be fought by “saif” only but by every possible means thats why there is no specific word described in Quran.
Dear brother I am giving you answers but you have to do your home work from the Quran to contradict the answers intlectually not emotionally.You will have to demonstrate the patience to understand the answer one by one.
The answers would be the test of SABAR.
Answrs-1(a)[Sura Furqan 25-52] So do not follow the Kafreen, and JIHAD against them a JIHAD-un-KABEERA with it(QURAN).
Analysis:”JIHAD-un-KABEERA with it(QURAN).”
Allah has not mentioned in the AYA with the Quran but with the SWORD is not mentioned in the aya. I would also clarify you that the word SWORD ( in arabic SAIF) is not mentioned in any aya in the Quran. But the amazing thing is that in the BIBLE it is mentioned in 404 verses.Read as follows the religion of Jews and Chistians just three examples out of 404.
>>>>> Please comment on first answer of your question part (a).
Thanks
Answer to response 1-a
Brother — if you ask me emotionally, I would say I cried on your answer- that people who have no knowledge and understanding of Quran are writing articles to misguide muslimeen around the world.
Intellectually, I think, you are more expert on Bible than Quran. Even your knowledge is more on what and where things are discussed in Bible. You mentioned, (Al-furqan 25-52): let me paste Arabic of this Ayah: فَلَا تُطِعِ الْكَافِرِينَ وَجَاهِدْهُم بِهِ جِهَادًا كَبِيرًا
You show me the word Quran in whole Ayah??? Where did you get the sense, it is talking about “with the Quran” here?
Secondly, I would ask you to paste me some Ayahs from Surah Bakara, Surah Al-e-Imran, Surah Nisa — why are you ignoring Ayah from there —
Again, I am still expecting your answers on my other questions —
Finally, I have questions to all of Hadith Rejectors (Pervaizee and other Munkareen-e-hadith);
1- Do you think all the dozens of Sahih ahadith regarding Stoned to death in Muhammad(PBUH) life and then Sahaba lives and then through out the muslim history are unathentic and self created?
2- Are you 100% sure Muhammad(PBUH) never asked for this punishment to any adulterer?
3- What is the meaning of “Ate-ullah ha wa ate-ur-rasool” in Quran? Why not just Ate-ul-llah ha? Is there any difference between Ate-ullah and ate-ur-rasool”?
4- What is the purpose of a Prophet(Messenger), if following the Quran was enough?
5-“And We have sent down unto You the Message so that you may explain clearly to men what is sent for them.” [An-Nahal, 16:44]…Why messenger is required to explain the verses? if it is really, then how can today we will get that explanation?
6- Why did Allah revealed Quran by a messenger to the people and why in 23 years? why not just revealed the whole book in one instance and asked people to follow it, this is enough and complete book for you, no need for any explanation?
7-If I say Quran was revealed in one day and all the people who say it was revealed in 23 years are telling lie, what is your counter argument?
Dear do you know brother Why do I wrote Salam instead of Salam un alaik?Please do reply.
Now brother I wrote word Quran in bracket because in arabic the word “BE-HEE”
(with it) was mentioned.But you emotionally reacted.While I requested you that see it intlectually.Now go and check the what does BE-HEE stands for?Analyse again please.
Answrs-1(a)[Sura Furqan 25-52] So do not follow the Kafreen, and JIHAD against them a JIHAD-un-KABEERA with it(QURAN).
Analysis:”JIHAD-un-KABEERA with it(QURAN).”
Dear anti_democratic please learn something about arabic from your friend agrana75.
She is expert in changing the understanding of the aya by telling as:
[Sura Furqan 25-52] : This verse was revealed in Makkah when still Jihad bil Qattal was not allowed.. and you just twisted it to your own Jewish meaning, forgetting all other hundreds of verses on Jahad and Qattal..
Ask her the understanding of BE-HEE. She is saying “you just twisted it to your own Jewish meaning”
Jews and Chiristians are fighting with the SWORD .I already quoted the Bible.
The follower of Biblical concepts are called Jews and Chiristians .But people who believed Quran and practice it are called Muslims. Because Prophet Mohammad proclaimed the Quran not the Bible but people after accepting Islam did not leave the Biblical practices of forefather.
As you already admitted.
Dear do you know brother Why do I wrote Salam instead of Salam un alaik?Please do reply.
Now brother I wrote word Quran in bracket because in arabic the word “BE-HEE”
(with it) was mentioned.But you emotionally reacted.While I requested you that see it intlectually.Now go and check the what does BE-HEE stands for?Analyse again please.
Answrs-1(a)[Sura Furqan 25-52] So do not follow the Kafreen, and JIHAD against them a JIHAD-un-KABEERA with it(QURAN).
Analysis:”JIHAD-un-KABEERA with it(QURAN).”
Brother —> I can also see what did you mean, when it is within brackets … All i am asking is how do you know, it is talking about Quran here. It doesn’t say explictly. In some Urdu/English translations it has (Quran) in brackets.
I am asking from your side, who ignore all the Ahadith/Ayahs to spread your point across. How did you come to know, it is talking about Quran here. That’s all i am asking.
Dear anti_democratic again I will say SALAMA, Please reply why I am writing Salama instead of Salam un Alaik,
“How did you come to know, it is talking about Quran here. That’s all i am asking.”
Again see brother I wrote the word Quran in bracket because in arabic the word “BE-HEE”(with it) was mentioned.Please check , what does BE-HEE stands for?Analyse again please.
You are more worried about your forefather religion than Quran (the word of Allah) revealed on Prophet PBUH.You are ignoring the essence of every aya.
[6.25] And of them is he who hear to you, and We have put veils over their hearts lest they understand it and a heaviness into their ears; and even if they see every sign they will not believe in it; so much so that when they come to you they only dispute with you; those who disbelieve say: This is naught but the stories of the ancients.
ANALYSIS:(A)”and even if they see every sign they will not believe in it; so much so that when they come to you they only dispute with you”
(B)”This is naught but the stories of the ancients.”
Dear these ayat are alive and valid in all time. There is no need to find out the reaction of people on the ayat in past only.
@Ayub:
I wish if you could ask your pervaizee type so called scholars to answer the following more answers.
I want to know your own interpretation also about the following verses. What is your own opinion on these verses?
1- “And We have sent down unto You the Message so that you may explain clearly to men what is sent for them.” [An-Nahal, 16:44] ..
What all Wants to explain through Messenger, when men like you are already wise enough to understand at their own?
2- “As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise.” [5:38]
What should be the amount of the theft , for which the hand should be cut? As no amount is mentioned in the Quran , so I assume we should cut thief hands even if he steals 5 ruppees.. ?
Adultery is a big crime or stealing 5 ruppess?
Losing hands is a big punishment for Rs 5 or just imprisonment at house or just flogging for Adultery?
I am sure 100% that , this time again you cannot answer my questions because pervaizee books are silent on these issues.
Alhamdulillah we Muslims read whole quran , believe in the truth of every Ayat but dont consider ourselves to be more intellectual than Allah and his messenger Muhammad and have firm faith that what Allah taught his messenger(PBUH) is absolute and our knowledge and wisdom is limited. Quran is easy to understand , but ignoring the reference and background of the verse revealed often misguide. And when there is already hatred for Muhammad sunnah in heart , then according to Quran , ” you cannot be true muslims unless you start loving Muhammad more than any other thing”…. Now you can judge yourself ,where you are standing..
Mr. ayub, I know you published this article after inspired by some pervaizee interpretation and know nothing about Deen. You failed to answer my number of questions because you couldnt find their answers in the Pervaizee books . The article you published is just for “gumraheee”.. you ignored background of the verses revealed and didnt mention the time when they were revealed. You just catch the words and present your own mindset. This is actually typical jewish mindset.
May Allah guide all of us to follow the true path of Islam.
I have plenty of emails that i exchanged with one of your champions on your favorite website called http://www.submission.org
He has failed to answer any of my questions logically and with references…
He has also failed miserably to even explain things mentioned on this website….
Without going into details… I challenge you to prove that there is no validity of Ahadith… I already have plenty of emails that i can just post on this thread… and i am more than 100% sure that none of your greatest scholars can answer those questions…
So be cool and keep praying like us just like mentioned in the Ahadith because thats what you do and at the same time reject the Hadith.. way to go…
Please also read the following with care.
agrana75 said:
“Mr. ayub, I know you published this article after inspired by some pervaizee interpretation (100% suspicion) and know nothing about Deen. You failed to answer my number of questions because you couldnt find their answers in the Pervaizee books (100% suspicion) . The article you published is just for “gumraheee”..(suspicion in some cases is a sin) you ignored background of the verses revealed and didnt mention the time when they were revealed. You just catch the words and present your own mindset. This is actually typical jewish mindset.”(suspicion in some cases is a sin)
ALLAH SAYS:
[Sura 49.12] O you who believe! avoid most of suspicion, for surely suspicion in some cases is a sin, and do not spy nor let some of you backbite others. Does one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? But you abhor it; and be careful of Allah, surely Allah is Oft-returning , Merciful.
agrana7:
Please read the bible you will find such type of cocepts.
Bible says:
John 14:23 (Whole Chapter)
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Note:”Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me”
John 8:42 (Whole Chapter)
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Note: “Jesus said unto them,..ye would love me”
But on the contrary Allah says in Quran through Prophet Mohammad pbuh:
Allah said to Prophet to say :
[3.31] Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
Note:(a) “Say: If you love Allah,”
(b) “Allah will love you ”
Please check and improve your forefather belief.
Allah says through Prophet Mohammad pbuh as:
[2.170] And when it is said to them, Follow what Allah has revealed, they say: Nay! we follow what we found our fathers upon. What! and though their fathers had no sense at all, nor did they follow the right way.
I have challenged this guy to answer my questions regarding Salat, Fasting, zakat and hajj. But he couldnt. He knows these are fundamentals of Islam according to Quran but as Allah explained them through Muhammad and these people donot believe in Muhammad (PBUH) Ahadith so they cannot answer such things. Apparently they are forced to pray like other muslims but by heart they themselves are confused, what and how to pray in the mosques. They even dont know how to call Azan.
Once some years back, I had a long discussion with the same type of Hadith rejector guy. I asked him, how you will pray when Azan is called. He said just by thinking in mind that I am praying salat and thats it. I asked what and how you will pray ? He said If i am lying in the bed or sitting in the chair , i will remember Allah. I asked how you will remember Allah, will you say some certain supplications, verses etc. HE said it is upto him, he can say anything. Then I asked him about congregational prayer in masjid, but he was just confused..
So you see how these Hadith rejectors offer prayers…
These people never talk about fundamentals of Islam, Salat, zakat, hajj, Jahad etc and only try to confuse the people by quoting Quranic verses without references and backgrounds and twist to their own meanings.
They too believe that revelation process completed in 23 years but fail to tell how do they know Quran was revelaed in 23 years and why Allah took 23 years to reveal, and why not just in one instance.
@Ayub
It looks , You most of the time read bible instead of Quran.
[3.31] Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL..
Muslims follow and love Muhammad, because Allah orders it. If one really loves Allah then he must know what is the meaning of “Atee ur rasool”?
“Say: If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your kindred, the wealth that you have gained, the commerce in which you fear a decline, and the dwellings in which you delight are dearer to you than Allah and His Messenger, and striving hard and Fighting in His Cause; then wait until Allah brings about His Decision (torment). And Allah guides not the rebellious folk.” [At-Tawbah:24]
Say (O Muhammad SAW to mankind): “If you (really) love Allâh then follow me , Allâh will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”[ 3:31]
Say: “Obey Allah and His Messenger”: But if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith. [3:32]
Allah revealeth unto thee( Muhammad) the Scripture and wisdom, and teacheth thee that which thou knewest not. The grace of Allah toward thee hath been infinite. [4:113]
If anyone contends with the Messenger(PBUH) even after guidance has been plainly conveyed to him, and follows a path other than that becoming to men of Faith, We shall leave him in the path he has chosen, and land him in Hell,- what an evil refuge! [4:115]
Blessed is He who sent down the criterion to His servant(PBUH), that it may be an admonition to all creatures;- [25:1]
And We have not sent you but as a giver of good news and as a warner.[25:56]
Muslim religion is Quran and Sunnah (Atee ul llah ha wa atee ur rasool), what is your?
Brother Ayub: Sorry, I have not had the time to respond in detail to your last message to me. I’ll just deal with your request briefly. Firstly, having seen so much hypocrisy here, I doubt if this place is an appropriate venue for debating issues which apply to an Islamic society (where is such a society anyway?). Secondly, I know my limitations and I do not feel qualified to offer an opinion on issues of jurisprudence. I try to live my life in accordance with the principles of Deen – as explained in the Qur’an – which apply to an individual.
I have noticed you refer to agrana75 as “she”. Is my gentleman “brother” in fact a sister? How did you work that out? Your powers of detection appear to be just as remarkable as your knowledge of religions.
Ayub Khan, if you choose to carry on with your Jihad, my prayers go with you. What can you say about people whose idea of “itaa’at-e-Rasul” is to believe whole heartedly in the lies and calumnies that the enemies of Islam maliciously circulated to malign and ridicule Muhammad Rasul-Allah, Rehmatul-lil-aalameen? A belief in ridiculous stories is not “itaa’at” – true obedience is reflected in our actions. A cursory look at the Pakistani society is enough to tell us what the actions of people amount to.
Some people here, especially the lady, have twisted the words that you and I have used. Surely, there are both Qur’anic aayaat and valid ahaadees about the actions of people who deliberately falsify and distort what others say? Are agrana75 and her supporters not aware of those injunctions and sayings? To put the record straight, this is what I have said previously:
“As for ‘sahih ahadees’, no hadees can be regarded as ‘sahih’ which contradicts any part of the Qur’an. This is the primary criterion of whether or not a hadees can be accepted as valid. All other criteria are subservient to this fundamental rule irrespective of whichever collection the hadees comes from.”
“In Al-Quran we are told to follow and obey Muhammad Rasul-Allah, Rehmatul-lil-aalameen but people perversely follow others and they pathetically justify their hypocritical behaviour by attributing false stories to Allah’s Messenger. They may end up – as you have pointed out – obeying the Bible but they will most certainly be disobeying Allah’s Rasul, who told his followers to hold fast to the Book of Allah.”
“If there is a clear contradiction between the Quraan and a “hadith” story, which one will you accept? A munkir-e-Quraan prefers the latter irrespective of how shameful and immoral that story is!”
“The so-called “sahih ahadith” collections were penned by non-Arabs of Persian/Zoroastrian origin some 250-300 after the death of the Last Messenger of Allah. They were Persian speakers who learnt Arabic but did not necessarily master the Quraish dialect of Arabic in which Al-Qur’an was revealed. The so-called muhaditheen had simply travelled around in Arabia listening to stories in circulation at that time. By then many generations had passed and there were literally hundreds of thousands of false stories attributed to Muhammad Rasul-Allah. These stories had been introduced by the enemies of Islam (Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, kharijis, etc.) and by the corrupt Muslim clergy which manufactured fake anecdotes to curry favour with the self-indulgent monarchs who ruled the expanding Muslim empire (they called themselves ‘khalifah’ but, in practice, they were hereditary kings, power passing from father to son).
“ RASUL-ALLAH’S LIFE WAS THE LIVING QUR’AN. WOULD HE TRAMPLE THE QUR’ANIC AAYAAT UNDERFOOT?”
fii amaan Allah.
P.S. A Sheikh at Al-Azhar, Cairo, has written about the derivation of shariah laws from the Bible. I’ll try to get hold of that article and post it here.
@Aseer:
you said:
“ RASUL-ALLAH’S LIFE WAS THE LIVING QUR’AN”…
My question is how do you know his life was living Quran? What is the source of this information? How do you know about his life, when you dont believe in “stories ” about him?
By saying verbally just is not sufficient, you will have to prove that His life was living Quran… When Quran says :
“You have indeed in the Messenger of God (Muhammad) a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is God and the Final Day.” (33:21)
Now, how I will come to know about his life “pattern”, When Allah is referring Muhammad life to follow?
If all we need to follow is Quran without keeping in view Muhammad life then if this verse in not confusing?
Quran didnt tell anything about his life pattern .Now from where you will get information ?
If I have to follow the self interpretations of Quran only , ignoring Muhammad guidance then why Allah is saying Atee ur Rasool?
What is the purpose of Love for Muhammad? How would you love the person , who died 1400 years ago? If , I am following the Quran, then why not just Allah love? Why Allah is including Messenger(PBUH) name also in this verse? :
“Say(to them), If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your kindred, the wealth that you have gained, the commerce in which you fear a decline, and the dwellings in which you delight are dearer to you than Allah and His Messenger, and striving hard and Fighting in His Cause; then wait until Allah brings about His Decision (torment). And Allah guides not the rebellious folk.” [At-Tawbah:24]
By the way , this verse also carries answer to your so called Jahad .
Can you quote me any sahih hadith against Quran?
Regarding Ahadith. You say all these are stories:
Let me summarize your point of view as:
1- These were compiled after life of Prophet muhammad, like after 200 years of his life.
2- Compiled on the basis of the stories , circulated that time.
3- We shouldnt believe , what is not happened in our life even other people are witnessing it is true.
Now let me ask a question..dont take it offensive but sit and think with cool mind:
Let you father name is A and mother is B.. you came to know your father is A, because, your documents say it, your relatives told it and above all your mother B told it… So your belief in A as your father is only due to the people “stories”. when you were born, you dont remember any thing and were not present when your parents did sex and you born. Lets say, you have doubt in it that your father is A and your mother is telling lie. May be she did sex with some one’s else and hide her secret love from every one and when you born she told lie about your actual father. So basis on this doubt, would you like to go to your parents and ask them that you have doubts in A as your father because all this belief is on the “stories” and quite possible that she is not telling the truth… May be she had some secret affair…..Would any one like to go and ask his parents such stupid questions basis on just doubts……. Would he like to demand DNA test? Did such thing ever come into your mind? why not? What do you think , what will be their reaction ? They will serve you with shoes…..:) or serve you with an encouraging pat for your wonderful question.
Now come to our topic.. When dozen of people are witnessing that this ahadith is sahih and the people who are witnessing and informing about it are also well known as good character persons , then why should I doubt?
You should really go and study , how Ahadith were compiled ( Ilm Ism ur Rajjal). what was the criteria of Muhadatheen to declare some hadith strong or weak. It is not like that they just listened and copied it to their books.. but they confirmed it through various sources. Later on , when they compiled in their books, then the people after them did critical analysis on every hadith and the tellers . And then they were declared as Sahih books. The knowledge of sahih hadith was not evolved 200 years after Prophet death but only it was not compiled in proper way. People had many hadiths in their mind and many in uncompiled scriptures just like Quran when it was compiled , people had it in their brains and animal skins etc..
Now when hundred and thousands of people after their intensive research are saying that such n such ahadiths are true , then i have no reason to doubt them same as when all my relatives and mother are saying that he is my father then how can I doubt it and demand for some proof (DNA etc).
Based on your criteria, it means we should not believe any thing happened not before our eyes. We should reject all the the history books and even Quran because it was compiled by humans and may be they lost many “animal skins with verses written on them.and they added at their own…What do you think? What is counter argument? you will quote the verse in quran “we will protect it”. Lets say it was also included by humans then ?
By the way how you come to know Quran was compiled in 23 years and initially it was written in scattered form on animal skins? I couldnt find any such proof in Quran…….
The “Muslim Ummah” is practicing much of the Judeo-Christian beliefs largely from the Old Testament. The ‘religion’ considered and practiced as Islam today has degenerated from the time of Prophet Muhammad (S). In the beginning there was a very simple Deen, Al-Islam revealed to the Prophet (S), which was fully encapsulated in just one Book, Al-Qur’an.
For example, the covering of the head for women which has become a point of much discussion in the West, is actually not found in the Qur’an. Therefore, it is not a part of the original teachings of the Prophet. It has been taken from the Christian Bible and incorporated into Islam.
Similarly many of the beliefs that are considered Islamic are actually derived from the Jewish and Christian scriptures. The early converts from Judaism and Christianity gradually incorporated their old beliefs into Islam to such an extent that the ‘Islam’ of today is often a verbatim manifestation of the Bible. None of these Biblical teachings were known to the Prophet and they cannot be found in the Qur’an at all. But the ‘scholars’ of Islam are unanimous in accepting these beliefs as part of Islam today.
Other than the head covering for women, our other practices like:
Ø The circumcision of males
Ø The stoning to death for adultery
Ø The stoning to death for apostasy
Ø The wearing of beards for men
Ø The dietary prohibition of many types of food
Ø The displaying of holy writings on the wall
Ø The belief that woman is created from man
Ø The collection of religious tithes or Zakaat
Ø The injunction against graven images like statues, sculptures and other representations of human and animal life forms
Ø The religious injunction that menstruating women are spiritually unclean
Ø The ritualized blessing of “Amen”
Ø The animal sacrifice (Aqeeqah) at the birth of children
All these things are derived from the Christian and Jewish Scriptures. This list is by no means exhaustive. These beliefs are NOT found anywhere in the Qur’an which is in fact the earliest and the only authentic teaching of Prophet Muhammad (S). Yet, these teachings can be found in very exact detail in the Christian Bible and the Jewish Scriptures. The Christian West should, therefore, credit it to the great tolerance and absorption of the early scholars and generations of the Muslim Ummah that they were able to bring with them a vast spectrum of Christian and Jewish beliefs which were accepted in that early era and are practiced by Muslims as part of Islam today. Therefore, there is no need for the Judeo-Christian world to be apprehensive about Islam. Our common heritage should bind us together instead of dividing us.
I would like to begin with the issue of the wearing of the head covering for women. In light of the post September 11, 2001 events, this issue has been frequently highlighted in the Western media. Muslim schoolgirls are prohibited from wearing the head-covering in France and elsewhere.
01. HEAD COVER FOR WOMEN ORIGINATES FROM THE BIBLE:
As I mentioned before the wearing of the head covering for women is not part of the Prophet’s teachings and is not found in the Qur’an. It is a belief and a practice that was taken by the early Muslim scholars from the Christian Bible. (1 Cor 11:5-13)
So the commandment for a woman to cover her head is in the Bible. This belief has seeped into the Muslim belief and has now become part and parcel of today’s Islam. The West has no problem with Catholicism putting its nuns in head cover. In Europe Catholic schools still encourage young girls to take up the wearing of the Catholic head-cover.
Unfortunately under the guise of modernity, a vast majority of Christians themselves are not following the teachings of the Bible – the large majority of Christian women do not cover the head. Hence, it is the Muslim Ummah who are very good Christians because they still uphold these Bible teachings.
02. CIRCUMCISION IS DERIVED FROM THE BIBLE:
The Sunni and Shi’a ‘Muslims’ believe male circumcision to be mandatory and they practice it universally. The truth is that God and the Prophet never asked the Muslims to circumcise anyone.
But where does the Muslim belief in circumcision come from? Once again the answer lies in the Bible. The Covenant of Circumcision is mandated in the Bible.
Genesis 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
Later Muslims have found this belief acceptable and have incorporated it into their Muslim practices.
[A comment by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed: Medically speaking, one out of 1,000 males is born without a foreskin. In my humble opinion, Muslims should continue it for the benefits. For example, cancer is seldom encountered in a circumcised penis and the hygiene factor is obvious.]
03. THE ISLAMIC STATE:
The Christian West raises alarm about the so-called ‘Islamic State’. They should not really be afraid. Very often all the precepts and beliefs for the Islamic State, particularly the Shari’ah Law, are based almost entirely on Biblical teachings. They are not found in the Qur’an at all and therefore do not form part of the Prophet’s teachings. An Islamic State under Shari’ah Law is nothing but Biblical Theocracy. This reflects the tolerance of the Muslim faith in accepting and incorporating Biblical teachings into Islam.
The Prophet brought the Qur’an to the entire humanity. But it is a credit to the great tolerance that the Muslim Ummah has picked up the Biblical teachings. The fervor to set up an Islamic State is nothing more than establishing the Biblical Theocracy. Let the Lord’s Kingdom come!
04. PUNISHMENT FOR ADULTERY:
The recent cases of stoning women to death for adultery in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Nigeria are laws that are not from the Qur’an. God and the Prophet never taught Muslims to stone anyone to death for any crime. The words Shariah Law are not even mentioned in the Qur’an. The law of stoning to death for adultery is taken from the Bible. See Deut 22:20-21.
Hence the law of stoning people to death is Biblical. It has been accepted by the Muslims who came after the Prophet and this is another evidence of a great tolerance in Islam for upholding Biblical teachings. Why should the Christian West hold the Muslim Ummah in disgust for upholding Biblical laws?
If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death (Lev 20:10). The Qur’an also prescribes a punishment for adultery, but it is a scourge of 100 lashes (24:2).
05. THE PUNISHMENT OF APOSTASY:
The United Nations Charter on Human Rights guarantees freedom of religion. This right was first guaranteed in the Qur’an.
2:256 There is absolutely no compulsion or coercion in Religion.
God and the Prophet guarantee all humans that they have the right to believe or disbelieve as they choose.
2:193 So, fight them (the aggressors) only until there is no more harassment and Religion may be adopted for the sake of God alone.
No one has the right to deny the right to freedom of religion. People will be held accountable for their choices in the life to come. God will decide what to do with people and their choice of belief. There is no earthly punishment prescribed in the Qur’an for those who believe or disbelieve. (4:137)
The Biblical teachings, however, say that anyone who blasphemes or becomes an apostate from his faith must be punished with death by stoning (Lev 24:16). Included among those who must be put to death by stoning are the deviants. (Deut 13:5-10)
Again it is the great tolerance and flexible nature of Islam today that these Biblical teachings have been absorbed and are practiced as part of the Islamic Shari’ah Law. The teachings from the Christian Bible show the Muslim proximity to the Christian faith. Hence, there should be no conflict between Islam and the Christian West about these laws. We have so much in common with each other.
The list is very long. Just a few of the many other beliefs are now given that the Muslims practice today. They are not found in the Qur’an but are taken from the Christian Bible. Unfortunately, because of the ignorance of the Muslim and Christian masses, these beliefs are manipulated by some clever people as excuses to create a rift between the West and Islam.
06. THE TALIBAN’S DESTRUCTION OF STATUES IN BAMIYAN:
We recall with dismay the huge hue and cry when Taliban destroyed the priceless ancient treasures in Bamiyan. Under the guise of religion, the Taliban insisted that the statues of the Buddha were idols and had to be destroyed. The Taliban based their actions on Islamic beliefs that have actually been absorbed from the Christian Bible. It is a Biblical teaching that graven images must not be made, and if made, they must be destroyed. (Deut 27:15, 4:16).
The Muslims have absorbed these Biblical teachings, and again this reflects the immense capacity of ‘Muslims’ to learn from the Christian Bible. The Qur’an does not say anywhere that statues or graven images are forbidden or that they must be destroyed. The Christian West has to take account of these truths and give due credit to Islam for giving fresh life to the Biblical teachings. Islam’s proximity to the Bible is much deeper than what the Christian West would like to acknowledge.
The Qur’an Does Not Forbid Pictures, Paintings And Sculptures For Décor:
34:13 They worked for him (Solomon) as he desired, making forts, statues, sculptures, paintings and images, pools, and boilers well-dug into the ground….” [Please note a Prophet of God decorating his kingdom with statues, sculptures, paintings and images. Muslim orthodoxy, unfortunately, declares all fine arts as Forbidden.]
07. THE WEARING OF BEARDS:
The Christian West has also been disturbed by the Islamic practice of men wearing beards. After the September 11 event, many Muslim men with beards have been the subject of suspicion and summary searches by police and other law enforcement agencies throughout the West. Keeping beard is again not the teachings of the Prophet or the Qur’an. Instead, the wearing of beards by men is taken from the Christian Bible. The Christian Bible makes it clear.
Leviticus 19:27 Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard. 21:5 Priests must not shave their heads or shave off the edges of their beards or cut their bodies.
2 Samuel 10:5 When David was told about this, he sent messengers to meet the men, for they were greatly humiliated. The king said, “Stay at Jericho till your beards have grown, and then come back.”
Hence, the Taliban were following the Bible when they insisted that men should wear beards. No doubt the Prophet and the Qur’an never commanded men to sport beards. It is Islam’s greatness as an evolving religion that it has absorbed much from the Judeo-Christian Scriptures.
The Muslims are told in the Qur’an that they should not follow the path of the Christians and the Jews. Despite such warning, the Muslim scholars, in the interests of preserving harmony and peace with their Christian brothers and sisters, decided that the Biblical teachings should be closely upheld by good Muslims. Therefore, the fear by the Christian West is misplaced and unfounded.
In conclusion, I would like to state that both Muslims and the Christian West should study and take cognizance of the vast area of similarity between the Muslim beliefs and Christian Biblical teachings.
In this age of high tensions, paranoia and fear of everything that is deemed Islamic, the Christian West should appreciate the fact that for one thousand years, the Muslim scholars have already shown a great tolerance towards Christianity by learning and absorbing many parts of the Christian Bible into their Islamic faith.
NOTE: The above list has been taken from the Christian Bible. Nothing of it can be found in the Qur’an.
In the light of the evident flexibility in Islam today, I hope that the Muslims all over the world will make the effort to show their Christian brothers and sisters that a great amount of our Islamic Shari’ah is drawn from the Christian Bible. At the same time I urge the Christians and Jews to give Muslims the due credit for being loyal to the Christian Bible and Jewish Scriptures. We have more in common between us than what divides us.
Who is Sheikh Sultan M. As-Salameh, Al-Azhar, Cairo? Is he a messenger or prophet?
Some thing given in bible doesnt make it mandantory that Muslims also adopted them from Bible..You have to show the real proof. If your theory is true then , it can be implied that all the things which are common among bible and Quran are fake.
The fundamentals of the religions were never changed. Thats why they are found with less or more details in all the holy books.
I wonder why your shaikh didnt give fatwa about :
1- Cutting head hair as it is not mentioned in the quran.
2- Shaving pubic hairs as Quran doesn’t mention it.
3- Taking bath after sex as no such method is given in quran. It just asks cleanliness.
Can you ask your so called shaikh to explain these verses:
“You have indeed in the Messenger of God (Muhammad) a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is God and the Final Day.” (33:21)
*****Where are details of Muhammad life pattern?
“Allah revealeth unto thee( Muhammad) the Scripture and wisdom, and teaching thee that which thou knew not. The grace of Allah toward thee hath been infinite”. [4:113]
****If muhammad was just forwarding the Quranic verses to his ummah, then what is meant by teaching in this verses?
Yes, Allah says ; they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad ) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission. (Quran 4:65)
**** You believe that Quranic verses are for all the time , now tell me one thing how i can make Muhammad(PBUH) a judge in my disputes with other people?
“And We have sent down unto You the Message so that you may explain clearly to men what is sent for them.” [An-Nahal, 16:44] ..
**** Why Allah is saying to explain clearly, why not to convey them? where is that explanation for today muslims?
Dont just copy and paste articles from websites.. Take some time and try to answer my questions in this and above comments.
You people should really learn arabic and then read the Quran. You are really misguided by the twisted and self created translation by Jewish agents ( Parvaizee and qadianee) who were deputed to confuse muslims.
Salam un alaik @Engr_Ali :
Actually I am engaged with agrana75 in the discussion and he is asking all similar type of questions that is why i am not answering you.Sorry for that.I do understand your feelings. But I would like to clarify you that in all above messeges I did not say that I reject Sunnah and Hadith etc.
If you want to relate me with this story as you quoted “I asked what and how you will pray ? He said If i am lying in the bed or sitting in the chair , i will remember Allah. “Then I will must request you to follow the Sunnah of Momineen as mentioned:
[Sura 49.12] O you who believe! avoid most of suspicion, for surely suspicion in some cases is a sin, and do not spy nor let some of you backbite others. Does one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? But you abhor it; and be careful of Allah, surely Allah is Oft-returning , Merciful.
Please avoid suspicion about me.See what is being quoted.Discuss on that.I know how to proceed the discussion according the Sunnah of the Prophet pbuh mentioned in Quran.I am only accountable to Allah not any body.
{agrana75 said:
@Ayub
It looks , You most of the time read bible instead of Quran./No I compare the AQEEDA of my family and I try to reach the root.
Muslim religion is Quran and Sunnah (Atee ul llah ha wa atee ur rasool), what is your?”}
agrana75 said:
(then according to Quran , ” you cannot be true muslims unless you start loving Muhammad more than any other thing”)
[9.23] O you who believe! do not take your fathers and your brothers for guardians if they love unbelief more than belief; and whoever of you takes them for a guardian, these it is that are the unjust.
[9.24] Say: If your fathers and your sons and your brethren and your mates and your kinsfolk and property which you have acquired, and the slackness of trade which you fear and dwellings which you like, are “Aa-Habba” to you than Allah and His Messenger and JIHAD in His way, then wait till Allah brings about His command: and Allah does not guide the transgressing people.
Analysis:”Aa-Habba Elekum minal-Lahe wa Rasool-e-he wa Jihad-un fee sabeel-e-hee”
Allah is pointing them thier LOVE with above mentioned relationships and things which are stoping them to follow Allah and His Messenger.
But where is the following statement in Quran?
(then according to Quran , ” you cannot be true muslims unless you start loving Muhammad more than any other thing”)
Please be fair this is not the competition of knowledge but it is the review of our forefathers concepts.There is always room for improvement through Quran Majeed.
Only the book of Allah has no doubt,no contradiction,no error,etc and all other books written by men have doubt,error,contradiction etc in the subject of GUIDANCE.
arganza 75 said:
Muslim religion is Quran and Sunnah (Atee ul llah ha wa atee ur rasool), what is your?”}
Millat-e-Ibrahim is my religion.
[2.130] And who forsakes the religion of IBRAHIM but he who makes himself a fool, and most certainly We chose him in this world, and in the hereafter he is most surely among the righteous.
arganza 75
Actually the main hurdle to follow Allah and his messenger are the LOVE mentioned as: “Say: If your fathers and your sons and your brethren and your mates and your kinsfolk and property which you have acquired, and the slackness of trade which you fear and dwellings which you like”
“This known amount as God calls it, is 2.5%. This is the ONLY “known amount” to the submitters (Muslims). This amount, 2.5% was passed down to us, generation after generation, like Salat, from the time of Abraham to our time.”
Did you note any thing here.. Zakat rate is not given in Quran and your scholar is admitting that we fix rate 2.5% because we get this from generation to generation from Ibrahim(PBUH).. The funniest part is that he didnt quote any reference, example how it was passed generation to generation. On one side when we say that Ahadith were formulated after heavy investigation and research and Quran proves that Muhammad (PBUH) practice and actions are part of “deen” so Allah saved them it same as Quran was saved then you blames us that we are following forefathers religion but on other side look your scholar is quoting Zakat rate , not on the basis of Quran and even not on the basis of any research that how it was passed from Ibrahim to us. He cannot present any single example from old books that any messenger or Shariah had this rate between Ibrahim and Muhammad (PBUH)…
Think … again n again at all the Quranic verses not just take few and create a new religion. ..
I just finished up your whole website:
It is so funny and mixes of conflicting materials that even a child can judge that how dishonestly and deliberatly you people are corrupting Islam.
Be prepare I am gonna quote many things from this website and ask you various questions..
{agrana75 said:
I just came across your one of websites :}
Reply to your statement is that I have not quoted any website to you sister.Please correct your statement if you follow Allah and His messenger.Thanks
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Ayub said:
arganza 75 said:
Muslim religion is Quran and Sunnah (Atee ul llah ha wa atee ur rasool), what is your?”}
Millat-e-Ibrahim is my religion.
[2.130] And who forsakes the religion of IBRAHIM but he who makes himself a fool, and most certainly We chose him in this world, and in the hereafter he is most surely among the righteous.
arganza 75 read the following aya and correct a such:-
[2.165] And from men ther are ,who take parallel to Allah, whom they love as they should love Allah, and those who believe are stronger in love for Allah and O, that those who are unjust had seen, when they see the chastisement, that the power is wholly Allah’s and that Allah is severe in requiting (evil).
(A) “those who believe are stronger in love for Allah”
(B)”And from men ther are ,who take parallel to Allah, whom they love as they should love Allah”
agrana75 said:
(then according to Quran , ” you cannot be true muslims unless you start loving Muhammad more than any other thing”)
arganza 75 said:
{Think … again n again at all the Quranic verses not just take few and create a new religion. ..}
Answer:-[2.44] Do you order the people to be good and forget your own souls while you read Al-Kitab; do you not use your intelegence?
You quoted the criteria to be muslim without any proof.Is it good?
agrana75 said:
(then according to Quran , ” you cannot be true muslims unless you start loving Muhammad more than any other thing”)
pardon my intrusion but this is a bit of a ridiculous debate.
The ahadith was compiled a few hundred years after the death of the prophet which implies that there is a pretty good chance that a lot of mumbo jumbo got inserted alongside real sayings/actions of the prophet . I can understand why a rational (believer) would have a few doubts about their validity.
The quran on the otherhand was compiled (in book form) during uthman’s time which implies there is a high probability that it is indeed unchanged from its inception.
And now (supposedly) educated people are too busy arguing whether hadith can be validated or not… frankly who cares… i mean you don’t need a degree from al azhar or qom to figure out that flogging is a warped archaic way of punishment…it don’t apply no more..
this over-obsession with the interpretation of religious texts in an ALIEN language to all of us leads to further confusion.. i mean what’s so special about arabic anyway.. does that mean that god prefers the arabs to the rest of the world?? are we all (non-arabs) inferior to the arabs??
Why are we all so obsessed about appearances.. doall of you think that a supreme omniscient, omnipresent being really cares a hoot about whether if someone prays in the sunni/hanafi way or the the shia way..or has a beard or not .(or flogging adulterers or merely jaling them) As long as they are communing with god and performing good deeds and refraining from doing harm to the fellow beings isn’t that much more important…
we have so many more glaring problems in our society but all we worry about is the most irre
Millat-e-Ibrahim is my religion.
[2.130] And who forsakes the religion of IBRAHIM but he who makes himself a fool, and most certainly We chose him in this world, and in the hereafter he is most surely among the righteous.
Once again u distor the ayah, that ayah is directed at ppl of book, jews and christians and mushrikeen asking whats the fight btween us, if we can’t agree on anything we can agree that abaraham was righteous and his deen which was monethism is the way. The point of ayah, that There is noone worthy of worship except one God.
Thats the problem May ALLAH guide us all and u to righteous path.
@Admin
Once again this distortion of ayah;s is done on your site have fear of God and remove this article.
We know that, quran was compiled in Uthman(RA) Khilafa. My question is that how we know that? Quran itself didnt depict anywhere that it was compiled in Uthman (RA) khilafa.
If our informationsource is not on the basis of the same ” Ahadith books” which the Hadith Rejectors call the “stories” and unreliable books.?
The ahadith was compiled a few hundred years after the death of the prophet which implies that there is a pretty good chance that a lot of mumbo jumbo got inserted alongside real sayings/actions of the prophet . I can understand why a rational (believer) would have a few doubts about their validity.
If you had pondered the following Verses I quoted, with a cool mind then you wouldnt had to criticize (“you cannot be true muslims unless you start loving Muhammad more than any other thing”)
“Say(to them), If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your kindred, the wealth that you have gained, the commerce in which you fear a decline, and the dwellings in which you delight are dearer to you than Allah and His Messenger(PBUH), and striving hard and Fighting in His Cause (Jahad); then wait until Allah brings about His Decision (torment). And Allah guides not the rebellious folk.” [At-Tawbah:24]
“And We have sent down unto You the Message so that you may explain clearly to men what is sent for them.” [An-Nahal, 16:44] ..
“You have indeed in the Messenger of God (Muhammad) a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is God and the Final Day.” (33:21)
“Allah revealeth unto thee( Muhammad) the Scripture and wisdom, and teaching thee that which thou knew not. The grace of Allah toward thee hath been infinite”. [4:113]
Yes, Allah says ; they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad ) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission. (Quran 4:65)
“The Prophet is preferable for the believers even to their own selves…” (33:6)
“Undoubtedly, God and His angels love, glorify and bless the Prophet. O believers! You (too) love, glorify and bless the Prophet and salute him with all due respect.” (33:56)
“Say (to mankind O Muhammad), If you love God, follow me (and) God will love you…” (3:31)
Proclaim: “You shall obey GOD and the messenger.” If they turn away, GOD does not love the disbelievers. (3:32)
I didnt quote in my previous comments the verse number nor exact words but a general rule of the Islam being informed to us on the basis of the above verses..
I am a follower of Quran . If I have to follow it based on my own Interpretation then I cannot understand the role and importance of the prophet(PBUH)…
Can you explain ,
1) why Allah is naming Muhammad (PBUH) with his name (‘as dearer”) in At-Tawbah:24 why not Just Allah?
2) why Allah is declaring his life Pattern as an example for us. .. where as details of his life pattern cannot be found in the Quran.. Then why he is insisting on it?
3)Why Allah is saying that If you love Allah, follow Prophet(PBUH) why not just quran..
4) Why Allah is asking to prefer Muhammad than theirselves and why not just prefer Quran or Allah..
5) Why Should I obey Messenger , When I have to follow Quran theough my own interpretations..
I am totally confused.. Can you explain?
I cannot find the connection between following of Quran and Love for messenger(PBUH).. If I dont love messenger then why it is not possible to to follow the Quran? how ?
How can I obey him today after the 1400 years of his death?
You may say that following quran is actually like to obey Muhammad..I agree but why it is being asked to obey Muhammad , why not Allah or Quran just?
If I love some one , it is quite natural that i will try to know what he likes or dislikes, what he eats or drinks, how he walks, how he talks, how he behaves other, in short i will try my best to get as much information as possible and will copy or try to follow all his habits or ways… am I wrong?
Please Read my following comments..I quoted earlier…
Dont take it offensive but sit and think with cool mind:
Let you father name is A and mother is B.. you came to know your father is A, because, your documents say it, your relatives told it and above all your mother B told it… So your belief in A as your father is only due to the people “stories”. when you were born, you dont remember any thing and were not present when your parents did sex and you born. Since no body knew what actually was happened so It is pretty much possible that A is not your father and your mother is telling lie. May be she did sex with some one’s else and hide her secret love from every one and when you born she told lie about your actual father. So basis on this doubt, would you like to go to your parents and ask them that you have doubts in A as your father because all this belief is on the “stories” and quite possible that she is not telling the truth… May be she had some secret affair…..
Would any one like to go and ask his parents such stupid questions basis on just doubts……. Would he like to demand DNA test? Did such thing ever come into your mind? why not? What do you think , what will be their reaction ? They will serve you with shoes…..:) or serve you with an encouraging pat at your back for your wonderful question.
Now come to our topic.. When dozen of people are witnessing that these ahadith are sahih and the people who are witnessing and informing about them are also well known as good character persons , then why should I doubt?
You should really go and study , how Ahadith were compiled ( Ilm Ism ur Rajjal). what was the criteria of Muhadatheen to declare some hadith strong or weak. It is not like that they just listened and copied it to their books.. but they confirmed it through various sources. Later on , when they compiled in their books, then the people after them did critical analysis on every hadith and the tellers . And then they were declared as Sahih books. The knowledge of sahih hadith was not evolved 200 years after Prophet death but only it was not compiled in proper way. People had many hadiths in their mind and many in uncompiled scriptures just like Quran when it was compiled , people had it in their brains and animal skins etc..
Now when hundred and thousands of people after their intensive research are saying that such n such ahadiths are true , then i have no reason to doubt them same as when all my relatives and mother are saying that he is my father then how can I doubt it and demand for some proof (DNA etc).
Based on your criteria, it means we should not believe any thing happened not before our eyes. We should reject all the the history books and even Quran because it was compiled by humans and may be they lost many “animal skins with verses written on them.and they added at their own…What do you think? What is counter argument? you will quote the verse in quran “we will protect it”. Lets say it was also included by humans then ?
i actually agree with your final paragraph if iam purely objective i have to accept that there is a possibility that it could be work of man.
That’s what religion is all about. a leap of faith. As i explained earlier i think any logical being will agree that people’s memories are weak and it is easy to distort what they think someone said or did some time back
do you remember all the sayings of your parents or grandparents verbatim??? i know i don’t and i also know that i change those to suit my purposes from time to time – its perfectly normal human behaviour to do so.
the compilation quran was a collective effort where the source material was a number of people who memorised the same verses so you had a reference point to check.
The hadith can easily be distorted as hypothetically speaking as a sahaba of the prophet i could claim that i was told something in private which cannot ever be confirmed.
(an example for me of the illogic of hadith is the emphasis of the right hand – does that mean that left handed people are unloved by god or natually impure?)
secondly i’m sorry but i don’t buy the sanctity of parents argument you give as a metaphor.
Hum ghulaamaana zehniyet ke Pakistani ek ajnabi zuban meiN baRay josh-o-kharosh se apni ghalat-salat Angrezi meiN deeni aur nazari masaael ki behs meiN uljhay huway haiN. Kya humaaray liye Urdu zuban meiN ek cyber-khana (website) banana mumkin naheiN tha? Cheeni, Jaapaani aur Koriaaee log apni apni zubaanoN ko ahmiyyet de kar taraqqi ke maidaan meiN kahaaN se kahaaN nikal gaye haiN aur hum kahaaN khaRay haiN?
Bhaiyo aur Behno, Al-Quran hameiN tafakkur aur tadabbur ki taakeed karta hai. Afsos hai ke aap meiN se ba’z aisay haiN jinheiN is Quraani hukm ka ilm hii naheiN hai. Voh samajhtay haiN ke andha aqeeda aur andhi taqleed hii Islam hai. Isee ghalat ravish ki vajah se Musalmaan tamaam dunyia meiN zaleel o khaar ho rahay haiN (aur sadiyoN se hotay chalay aa rahay haiN). Andhi taqleed hameiN insaanoN ka ghulaam banaa deti hai aur Allah ka baaghi.
Iss mubaahasay meiN andhi taqleed ke maaray huway logoN ne akhlaaqi asool baalaay taaq rakh ke jhootay ilzaamaat kii buchhaaR kar dii hai. Kya meray alfaaz ko masakh karna kaafi naheiN tha? Ab mera ta’alluq ek aisee website se joR diya gaya hai jo meray liye ajnabi hai. MaiN ne qaari’een ko jis website pe jaanay ka mashvarah diya tha voh ye hai: http://www.ourbeacon.com. Agar aap yahaaN ka chakar lagaa aaeiN to aap Islam ke mujrimoN ko achchi tarah pehchaananay lag jaaeiN gay.
Amlan hum musalmaan naheiN rahay khwah hum apni zuban se jo marzi kaheiN. Pakistani muaasharay par ek nigaah daaliye, aap ko har taraf jhoot, fareb aur khud gharzi nazar aaye gii. Ek taraf mullaiyet ka maara huwa tabqa-e-johalaa hai aur doosri taraf Maghrib-zadah muqtadir tabqa hai. Kehnay ko ye doosra tabqa ta’leem yaafta hai lekin ye aisee ta’leem hai jis ne in logoN se izzat-e-nafs chheen lii hai aur unheiN apni zuban aur saqaafat se begaana kar diya hai.
Pakistan kii aabaadi mahz Karachi, Lahore aur Islamabad jaisay baRay shehroN tak mehdood naheiN jahaaN Angrezi zuban aur Maghrabi culture ko pooja jaata hai. Hamaaray vatan kii 90% aabaadi iss zuban ko naheiN samajhti jis ke nateejay meiN hamaari 90% zahaanat tabaah ho jaati hai kyuNke Angrezi se naavaaqfiyet kii vajah se logon ke liye aagay baRhnay ki raaheN masdood kar dee gaee haiN. Iqtedaar kii kursiyoN pe bohat se aisay log baraajmaan haiN jin kii zehni qabliyet ma’mooli sii hai lekin ameer gharaanay meiN paida honay kii vajah se unheiN ulti seedhi Angrezi iste’maal karni aa ga’ee hai. Inhi kotah-aql aur kotah-nigaah logoN ne Urdu ko apnay hii vatan meiN zindah dar gor kar ke rakha huwa hai.
Jo qaum khud apni tazleel meiN itni tundahi se masroof ho usay dunyia meiN izzat kaisay milay gii? Humaari rahi sahi naak hamaaray sadar ne Amreeka meiN kaat dii. VahaaN iss “masKharay” kii Angrezi ka khoob mazaaq uRaaya gaya. MiaaN, agar tu bhi CheeniyoN kii tarah beroN-e-mulk apni qaumi zuban meiN baat karta aur mutarjim se tarjumah karvaata to tujhay bhi CheeniyoN ka saa vaqaar mil sakta tha.
Maghrib ka maara huwa ghulam aisee baateiN kya samjhay! Sadar Sahib to Obama kii gaaliyaaN khaa ke bhi bud-mazah na huwa thay aur us kii har baat pe sar-e-tasleem khum kar detay thay! Kahaa unhoN ne Obama se: “Hazoor, mera to hamesha se hii ye khayaal tha ke Pakistan ko Bharat se kabhi kHatra naheiN rahaa!”
Parvaaz hai donoN kii isee ek fazaa meiN
Kargas ka jahaaN aur hai shaheeN ka jahaaN aur!
Millat-e-Ibrahim is my religion.
[2.130] And who forsakes the religion of IBRAHIM but he who makes himself a fool, and most certainly We chose him in this world, and in the hereafter he is most surely among the righteous.
razakhan said:
“Once again u distor the ayah, that ayah is directed at ppl of book, jews and christians and mushrikeen asking whats the fight btween us, if we can’t agree on anything we can agree that abaraham was righteous and his deen which was monethism is the way. The point of ayah, that There is noone worthy of worship except one God. ”
Ayub Reply:What is the distortion?You check the arabic and translation.Again I say my religion is Millat-e-Ibrahim.Also read as:
[4.125] And who has a better DEEN than he who submits himself entirely to Allah? And he is the doer of good and follows the RELIGION of IBRAHIM, the upright one, and Allah took IBRAHIM as a friend.
[3.31] Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
Note:(a) “Say: If you love Allah,”
(b) “Allah will love you ”
Analysis:Allah is clearly saying LOVE ALLAH and Follow The RASOOL.
[9.24] Say: If your fathers and your sons and your brethren and your mates and your kinsfolk and property which you have acquired, and the slackness of trade which you fear and dwellings which you like, are “Aa-Habba” to you than Allah and His Messenger and JIHAD in His way, then wait till Allah brings about His command: and Allah does not guide the transgressing people.
Analysis:Now people are invoved in the LOVE of above mentioned relations and things.Then Allah is reminding them to Follow Allah and Messenger and do Jihad in his way in comparison with THE LOVE of relations and things mentioned.
IN THE WHOLE QURAN THERE IS NOT A SINGLE PROPHET WHO SAID TO THE PEOPLE TO LOVE WITH HIM.
[2.165] And from men ther are ,who take parallel to Allah, whom they love as they should love Allah, and those who believe are stronger in love for Allah and O, that those who are unjust had seen, when they see the chastisement, that the power is wholly Allah’s and that Allah is severe in requiting (evil).
(A) “those who believe are stronger in love for Allah”
(B)”And from men ther are ,who take parallel to Allah, whom they love as they should love Allah”
Now its very easy to understand the concept of LOVE with the Prophet.
This is also the Biblical concept as I quoted the Bible.
Bible says:
John 14:23 (Whole Chapter)
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Note:”Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me”
John 8:42 (Whole Chapter)
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Note: “Jesus said unto them,..ye would love me”
The verse is very clear and I dont know what is problem in your mind with it.
(Are “Aa-Habba” to you than Allah and His Messenger ) ..What is meant by Aa, Habba? does it mean something else than beloved or dearer?
Pick any translation or ask any arabic scholar, what is meant by this verse. Dont try to make your self fool.. dont distort and misguide your mind by following the mis intrepretated and self explained trasnlations of “pervaizee( munkareen-e-Hadith and prophet love)” people which are present day big fitnas.
If you dont love Prophet Muhammad(PBUH).. you cannot act upon Quran ..
His character is a life pattern for us (33:21) . If you dont love this role model, then you are against Quranic teachings.
[3.31] Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL:
Clearly, Allah has set the criteria of his love in following Muhammad(PBUH). But still your mind seems to be in darks.
‘Whoever obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys Allah, and whoever turns back, so We have not sent you as a keeper over them”.[4:80]
Allah did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them a messenger from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs of Allah, sanctifying them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, they had been in manifest error . [3:164]
And whoever obeys Allah and the Messenger, these are with those upon whom Allah has bestowed favors from among the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the good, and a goodly company are they! [4:69]
Whatever Allah has restored to His Messenger from the people of the towns, it is for Allah and for the Messenger, and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, so that it may not be a thing taken by turns among the rich of you, and whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is severe in retributing (evil): [59:7]
And We have also sent down unto you (O, Muhammad) the Dhikr (the Qur’ân), “li-Tubayyina” (that YOU may give the Bayan, or explain clearly) to men what is sent down to them}; [16:44].
If you have some doubts about “li-Tubayyina”, ask any arabic language master. what does it actually mean?
1- Quran asked for Tahara but didnt explain it..could any one explain how one can get tahara? Is ablution enough or one has to take bath. If bath then what does it mean by taking bath? Just throwing water over the body?
2- Quran doesnt mention to cut nails, pubic hairs etc.. so do you think if muslims consider it a mandantory part of Islam to cut them is an innovation based on “stories”? What is your practice?
Aap to ek bohat suljhay huway insaan haiN, jis se mujhay koee shikaayet naheiN.
Afsos bus iss baat ka hai ke iss vaqt jab Pakistan ek intehaa’ee naazuk moR pe khaRa hai bohat se naadaan log mazhabi mubaahasoN meiN apni tavaanaa’ee zaa’e karnay par tulay huway haiN. Deen ko mazhabi firqoN meiN badal denay vaalay, ravaadaari se aari log, Taliban se kuchh zyaadah mukhtalif naheiN. Agar maiN in ke saamnay Qur’an kii vaazih hidaayaat rakh duN jin meiN Deen ko firqoN meiN taqseem karnay kii sakht mumaana’at kii ga’ee hai to ye log aisee “hadeeseN” dhund laa’eiN gay jo Qur’an kii aayaat ko (na’uz billah) muattal kar deti haiN!
Qur’an to kehta hai ke Deen ke muamalay meiN qat’an koee jabr naheiN lekin ye log usay maananay ke liye tayyaar naheiN. In ke liye Islam achchay akhlaaq aur a’maal ka naam haneiN balkeh ghair aham juziyaat ko apni marzi ke mutaabiq dhaalnay ka naam hai!
Kal meiN ‘Thana culture’ vaali laRi/thread pe tha. VahaaN maiN ne bhi apni raaye darj kar dii. Agar aap ko dilchaspi ho to paRh leN. Baar baar ye khayaal pareshaan karta hai ke hamaara vatan is maujoodah haalat meiN kaisay pohncha aur hum maazi kii kotaahiyoN kii kis tarah talaafi kar saktay haiN. Zaahir hai mulk meiN insaaf qaaem karna laazami hai, jis ke baghair ek Islami muaasharay ka vujood mumkin naheiN. Lekin insaaf us vaqt tak mumkin naheiN jab tak Pakistan meiN ek duhraa nizaam-e-ta’leem maujood hai aur logoN ko qaumi zindagi meiN yaksaaN mavaaqe muyasser naheiN.
Duaa keejiye ke Pakistan kii khaana jangi jald khatam ho jaaye aur hum beroni aur androni dushmanoN ke shar se mehfooz raheiN. Sar-e–dast hum aam shehriyoN kii avvaleen tarjeeh khana-jangi se muta’asir muhaajireen ki imdaad honi chaahiye – hammaaray hakoomti idaaray aur nokar-shaahi nizaam ek baar phir apni bay-hissi aur bay-amali kii makrooh numaaeish kiye huway haiN!
agrana75 said:
@Ayub and all other Munkreen-e-Hadith and Munkreen Love for Prophet:
Answer:
If I would Clarify to any Christian that Quran does not say to LOVE with Essa pbuh then He will also reply the same because his Bible say “you are Munka-e-Bible and Love of Essa”.
Unfortunately you are also behaving the same.Please try to understand the status of Prophets of Allah.
Your second Question:”If you have some doubts about “li-Tubayyina”, ask any arabic language master. what does it actually mean?”
Answer:“li-Tubayyina”
Sister I am also following the Sunnah of Prophet pbuh to write this article for the clarification believers and also clarifying you for more than one weak.But you are emphisizng me to follow the Bible and forefathers concepts.
Read as follows to examine my knowledge about “li-Tubayyina”.
[3.187] And when Allah made a covenant with those who were given AL-KITAB(the Book):(La-tu-bayya-nunnahu Linnass) You shall certainly explain to mankind and you shall not hide it; but they threw it behind their backs and took a small price for it; so evil is that which they buy.
I hope you will Insha Allah understand my intention.
agrana75 said:
Just answer the following questions:
1,2,3,4 mentioned above.
I wish , if could answer me with proof from Quran …
If you cannot answer , at least admit it…
Masha Allah I can answer every question you are asking.But I will give preference the five things mentioned in the aya as follows:
[2.177] It is not righteousness that you turn your faces towards the East and the West, but righteousness is this that one should believe in (1)Allah and(2) the last day and (3)the angels and (4)the Book and the (5)prophets, and give away wealth out of love for Him to the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and the beggars and for (the emancipation of) the captives, and keep up prayer (SALAT) and pay the Zakat; and the performers of their promise when they make a promise, and the patient in distress and affliction and in time of conflicts– these are they who are {rue (to themselves) and these are they who guard (against evil).
Because Quran says Munafiq are also establishing the SALAT and some people are spending to show to mankind.
“agrana75 said:
whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is severe in retributing (evil): [59:7]”
Answer:Rasool says:
Al- FURQAN- 25 30. And the Messenger will say, ” O my lord! Surely, my people took this AL-QURAN and abandoned it. (did not practice)
Now you decide which book he gave us Bible or Quran .
“agrana75 said:
The verse is very clear and I dont know what is problem in your mind with it.
(Are “Aa-Habba” to you than Allah and His Messenger ) ..What is meant by Aa, Habb”
Answer:Please consider the third word “JIHAD” also.
“Aa-Habba” to you than Allah and His Messenger and Jihad un fee sabeel-e-hee”Do you thing that we have to Love Jihad also.
Please read as follows:
[9.24] Say: If your fathers and your sons and your brethren and your mates and your kinsfolk and property which you have acquired, and the slackness of trade which you fear and dwellings which you like, are “Aa-Habba” to you than Allah and His Messenger and JIHAD in His way, then wait till Allah brings about His command: and Allah does not guide the transgressing people.
Analysis:Since the people are more involved in the LOVE of above mentioned relations and the things than to Follow Allah and Messenger and do Jihad in his way.
I hope you will understand.Kindly quote any other aya also to prove your point.Or any other aya where Allah has mentioned to LOVE the prophet etc.
agrana75 Actually the reason of disappointment is mentioned in the following aya.
The defination of fasiqoon(transgressors):-
[57.16] Has not the time yet come for those who believe that their hearts should be humble for the remembrance of Allah and what has come down of the truth? And that they should not be like those who were given Al-Kitab (the Book)from before, but the long time has passed over them, so their hearts hardened, and most of them are fasiqoon(transgressors).
Please try to improve the condition like as mentioned.
The defination of Al-Mominoon (the believers):-
[8.2] Those only are Al-Mominoon (believers)whose hearts become full of fear when Allah is mentioned, and when His Ayat (Verses) are recited on them they increase their Imaan (Belief), and in their Sustainer do they trust.
@ ayub:
You are just escaping the straight forward questions.. I can also quote hundred of verses to fill this page but i dont want to divert the topic we are discussing…
I asked you very straight forward questions about the method ofcalling azan, praying (Salt), fasting, zakat but you just quoted the verse mentioning that we should do all these things.. my question was how and you are saying yes we should do that as quran says.. but you are failed to answer, what is the method to do these basic virtues?
Similalry Allah is mentioning again and again “Follow Allah and his Rasool”.. but your needle is stuck that you dont need to follow him.. quran is enough for you.. Allah is saying Muhammad (PBUH) is role model for us but you are saying that you are more intellectual and dont need to follow this role model. The Prophet who got direct guidance from Allah is no more followable as you have got more wisdom than him.. Allah is saying that he has revealed verses to prophet so that he could explain them clearly to his ummat but you are saying that all his explanations are just stories .
In short you are challenging Allah wordings and just following some bunch of misguided “parvaize” scholars… considering yourself more wise than Allah and his messenger(PBUH).
arganza 75 said:”You are just escaping the straight forward questions.. I can also quote hundred of verses to fill this page but i dont want to divert the topic we are discussing…”
Answer:Kindly correct your self.The topic was FLOGGING.I did not change the topic.Then the second Topic you started by your misquote about Quran as:
“(then according to Quran , ” you cannot be true muslims unless you start loving Muhammad more than any other thing)”
I am not changing the Topics.Your trying to change the topic.
You are accusing me as:
“Similalry Allah is mentioning again and again “Follow Allah and his Rasool”.. but your needle is stuck that you dont need to follow him.. quran is enough for you.”
Answer:
Did I say in any of my post that I have no need to follow Allah and his Rasool.
While I am quoting through out the ayat of Allah and the Qaul-e-Rasool-in- Karim.But you are not believing that and emphisizing to follow those Rivayaat which are clearly in the light of Biblical Concepts.
I accept all Rivayaat etc if these are in the Light of Quran not in the Light of Bible.
You said:”Allah is saying Muhammad (PBUH) is role model for us but you are saying that you are more intellectual and dont need to follow this role model. ”
Answer; Please don’t accuse.I ACCEPT HIM AS “FEE RASOOL ALLAH-E-USWATUN HASSNAH”.
Plaese reffer through which Book he should be followed Quran or Bible?
Please do not deviate from the Topic.Only answer me what I have asked?
You said:
“In short you are challenging Allah wordings and just following some bunch of misguided “parvaize” scholars… considering yourself more wise than Allah and his messenger(PBUH).”
Answer:100% ZUNN (GUMAAN) and Allegations.
Note:-I would be glad to discuss with you any suitable time in any chat room.
Waiting for your reply.
You again skipped my actual questions. Why are you afraid of admitting that you donot offer salat like muslims,d o not fast, do not pay zakat, donot perform Hajj…like muslims. Donot eat halal(proper slaughtered) animals like other muslims do.. ???????
Ok I have “husn-e-zan” about you that you do all these things. But Muslims offer prayers, keep fasting, pay zakat based upon “stories”. Then are you not just following your fore father religion. There is no method of Salat given in Quran, so I cannot understand how your Salat is accepted which is based on “stories”?
Similarly for fasting. Apparently fasting means, to spend some time with out eating and drinking. But for how long, when should we start and when finish it?
Ramadhan month word is given in the Quran , but I couldnt find any thing when it starts ?.. Quran doesnt tell that, ok this month is now Ramadhan. Dont you think that the whole muslim ummat is fasting based on “stories”…?
Similarly for zakat,Muslim ummat has a consensus about it based on “stories” for 2.5 %. But how do you pay?. There is no method given in quran.
Surely, we started this topic on flogging issue, but since you presented your point of view neglecting Muhammad (PBUH) Sunnah, consensus and practice of muslim ummat through out the history, so first we have to talk about importance of Muhammad (PBUH) as a prophet. What is his role for ummat as prophet and why should we keep this role model in front of us while following the Quran? If prophet practice and sayings are a part of Islam or prophet was just to convey the word by word of Quran. If Allah message are just the words given in Quran or the the detailed explanations and practice of prophet of Muhammad(PBUH) is also part of his message?
I never found any thing in Sahih Ahadith against the Quran . Sahih hadiths are just the expalanations of Shariah which sometimes is not found on Quran .
Bible and Torah are also Allah books. If people have modified and distorted many things on those but you cannot claim that Muslims adopted such “things” from bible until you quote specific proof that how and when Muslims started adopting these things.
Many things are common between Quran and Torah, Quran and bible, so should it mean Muslims copied them from Torah?
Arguing with munaafiqeen is like chasing shadows. They have no shame and no sense of morality – they will shift position, they will make contradictory statements and they will carry on endlessly in this shameless manner. They are the ones whose hearts and minds have been sealed.
You stand a better chance with those who may be sincere but who have read neither the Qur’an nor the “ahaadees”. In the hope that these people can be persuaded to break the spell that the mullahs have cast on them I am copying Dr Shabbir Ahmed’s “Criminals of Islam” below. This contains a number of salacious stories from “Sahih” Bukhari and numerous other sources.
The number of contradictions between the Qur’an and ‘hadees’ stories run into hundreds, possibly, thousands. The most distressing aspect of many of these stories is the way they belittle and dishonour the greatest man who ever lived on earth. This clearly shows the hands of Jews, Christians and pleasure-seeking Muslim kings behind those stories.
Is this Dr Shabbir a Prophet or Imam of your new sect?
I am astonished why all such “fitnas” are flourished and live in the west and USA?
If you think you are true, why you are afraid of confessing that you dont offer salat like other muslims do?
Instead of calling some one munafic or beating about the bushs, better if you could answer my questions.
I just watched your maulvi video. It is just bull shit. He is making fun of the important Islamic ritual of using right hand, but arguing by giving the name of all non muslim leaders in the past. For him all those “great” personalities were left handed. For him, the role models are the non muslims . Can he quote any of the muslim leader, warrior who was lefty?
@Aseer,
The most ridiculous part of all the munkareen hadith is that , they believe and quote all the other non islamic stories and events from history with lot of exaggerations and no authenticity but ironically they doubt and reject Sahih ahadith with out thinking a single moment, no matter how well sahih ahadith books were formulated after deep research and investigations..
I am astonished why doesnt your Maulvi shabbir doubt his mother character.. May be she had some secret affairs…After all he was not there when his father did sex with his mother and he was born. …
aganza 75 SAID:
“Bible and Torah are also Allah books. ”
Answer:Thank you very much for telling me your forefathers Belief .Since you believe it Allah’s book then why were you feeling shame to accept that THE STONE TO DEATH is a BIBLICAL LAW and not the Quranic.Why don’t you Quote BIBLE to prove your point.Please be BOLD to quote BIBLE instead of any other BOOK.
ANSWER:-Where does Allah says that BIBLE is my Book?
The word Bible is derived from the Greek word biblia meaning “books”
and refers to the sacred writtings of Judaism and Christianity.
Torah :It means INSTRUCTION hebrew word.The first five Books of Bible are called TORAH.
If you read the whole discussion and the purpose of my article also was to high light the point that the STONE TO DEATH is a BIBLICAL concepts and there are other concepts are mixed in the name of Quran finally Masha Allah you also accepted in the END.
Salam un Alaik,Dear Brother Aseer,
[16.125] INVITE to the way of your Sustainer with WISDOM and BEAUTIFUL PREACHING, and have DEBATE with them in the best manner; surely your Sustainer best KNOWS those who go ASTRAY from His path, and He knows best those who follow the right way.
[16.126] And if you take your turn, then retaliate with the like of that with which you were afflicted; but if YOU are PATIENT, it will certainly BEST for those who are PATIENT.
[16.127] And be PATIENT and YOUR PATIENCE is not but by (the assistance of) Allah, and GRIEVE NOT FOR THEM, and do not distress yourself at what they plan.
Aseer said:”Arguing with munaafiqeen is like chasing shadows. They have no shame and no sense of morality – they will shift position, they will make contradictory statements and they will carry on endlessly in this shameless manner. They are the ones whose hearts and minds have been sealed.”
ANSWER:Dear brother do not give FATWA for any body.Because Allah says:
[60.7] It may be that Allah will bring about friendship between you and those whom you hold to be your enemies among them; and Allah is Powerful; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Salam un Alaikum to all of you brother and sisters.Thank you very much for your feed back on the article.If you want to further discuss you may email on mayub6@gmail.com, I would Insha Allah try my best to reply you.I am 24 hour connected through blackberry mobile service.THE END
M.Ayub Khan
I have read all these mails which were in responce to the article on Flogging from ayub. The original writer has posted excellent matter, but I don’t know why every one has lead the discussion astray off the subject. I take it as if many of you people are accusing ayub of being rejector of Hadith, where as ayub has many times denied this elegation and clearly stated that he accepts Sahih Hadith which is proven by Quran which is quite logical, do you think the vice versa and want to prove Quranic Ayat from Hadith. The fact of the matter is that when Allah S.W.T commands us to obey Him and His prophet pbuh He also tells us what His prophet preached. Please ponder into following Ayah;
2:129….. O’ our Lord raise amongst them messenger from them who recites over them Your AYAAT and teaches them Alkitab and Hikmah and purifies them; surely You are Powerful Wise.
This was the call/dua of Ibrahim pbuh which is the base of Allah’s deen. In this what duties have been assigned to the prophet Mohammed pbuh;
1- He has to recite Ayat of Allah
2- Teach The Book of Allah
3- Teach wisdom
4- Purifying the people
This will become a long topic but to cut short if we take the first two objectives then it is very clear that Mohammed pbuh recited only Ayaat of Allah and taught His Book and nothing else and nothing of his own as well. Quran is Kalam of Allah and Quaol of rasool-e-kareem, please read the following Ayaat;
69:40…. Surely that (Quran) is Qaol of rasool-en-kareem
…….
69:43…. Sent down from Lord of the universes
69:44…. Had he uttered something of his own over Us
69:45…. We must have caught him from his right
69:46…. We then would have cut his juggler vein
Now from the above ayaat one thing is for sure that prophet pbuh could not have said a single word which was not coforming to Allah’s book neither he could have said which was contradicting to Allah’s book. Then how can one imagine that prophet pbuh gave his judgement which is not proven by Allah’s book. Therefore stoning to death can not be ordered by Muhammed pbuh while he was supposed to give the judgement according to the Book of Allah.
Anything you declare being said by Muhammed pbuh must be Quaol-e-rasool therefore cannot be different or contradicting to kalam Allah. Therefore the stance of brother Ayub to accept the Hadith which conforms to Quran is right. Excellent brother ayub keep up the good work and post articles on other common issues as well for the education of common people
I have read all the posts and conclude, thatthe explanation of flogging by M.Ayub is based on Quranic aayats.
This would be sufficient fot a muslim who is believing in Allah’s only book Quran.
most of the posts have no any ayat in the support of thier arguments but only words other than ayats.
zia58 has posted following ayats in support of his stement
69:40…. Surely that (Quran) is Qaol of rasool-en-kareem
…….
69:43…. Sent down from Lord of the universes
69:44…. Had he uttered something of his own over Us
69:45…. We must have caught him from his right
69:46…. We then would have cut his juggler vein
@zia58 & @farrukh38:
Mashallah you have quoted an ayat “2:129….. O’ our Lord raise amongst them messenger from them who recites over them Your AYAAT and teaches them Alkitab and Hikmah and purifies them; surely You are Powerful Wise.”
Can you explain what is meant by ” teaches them Alkitab and Hikmah and purifies them”? How the Muslims of today world get those teachings.. Why allah has said “teaches” in addition to recitation of ayats..if recitation of ayats was not enough?
This ayat clearly tells that Messenger(PBUH) taught “some thing” to the early muslims in the light of Quran but the hadith rejectors say that they dont need such teachings of messenger and just the Koranic ayahs with out the backgrounds and interpretation taught by Muhammad enough for them..
This Ayat in fact proves the importance and existence of hadith. Ahadith are the part of Islam because the actions and sayings of Muhammad ( in ahadith) explain the true interpretation of Quran. secondly , Quran is not the qoal of Muhammad but Allah’s words. Mind it. ….
you claimed that you have read all the comments..ok , I believe.
I have raised number of questions above regarding fundamental virtues of Islam .. would you like to answer those with reference to Quran.
@aseer and @ ayub failed to answer, lets see how you can justify salat method (timings, rakat etc ), zakat amount, hajj method and fasting method etc from the Quran…
that is exactly how it is, congrats on this posting.
Horror! Horror!!
@nota
Wait until you get pkpol mullahs and baboos coming with their own interpretation.
The innings has just started.
I am disappointed to see that the author seems to be ill informed about the scholarly debates of this issue or the principles of interpretation. He has managed to provide a novel interpretation based on his own logic.
May I ask what is the purpose of this post as I do not expect this topic to be divulged on by pkpolitics. Since when pkpolitics has also become pkreligion? With this topic going, now every tom, dock and harry will be coming out as a scholar of quran and authority to interpret this way or that. In my opinion discussing such topic by the unqualified people is nothing but making fun of the word of Most High.
hmm… interesting… so lets see…
based on the above, my understanding is that the punishment of flogging is only for prostitutes… and even then the punishment is to be given in front of “Momineen”/practising Muslims.
1) so, in reference to the Swat flogging – the question is where is the proof that Chand Bibi was a prostitute? heck where’s the proof that she was even guilty of infidelity forget prostitution?
2) and how do we determine what a Momin/practising Muslim is? I might be a kaafir myself. but I refuse to believe animals like Fazlullah/Baitullah etc practice Islam. so, why was Chand Bibi punished and humiliated in front of these kufaar? did these bearded retards not break the rules in the above interpretation?
4) why is the focus on women sleeping around? from a societal point of view, if you take out the red light areas of the population, most people would agree that in Pakistan the chances of men sleeping around are far higher than women doing the same. so, why is the focus on only policing women… when the focus should be on men who are generally the ones abusing and using women especially in a society as sexist and male dominated as ours?
I want to thank you for this service to society. Problem is that how can we make ppl aware of true Islamic Teachings??
It is sad that our Ill knowledged Mullas (playing in the hands of our enemies) have damaged Islam so much that everybody is scared of going to them for advice. Even if they go, very little tell them true path and tell what is in favour of their belief. I think media, govt as well as genuine ulamas from all Islamic groups should take the matter seriously and need to work to unite Muslims. It is the responsibility of all of us and we all should do whatever in our powers to unite muslims. Otherwise we will be answerable to Allah.
Islamic history clearly shows that difference of opinion among Muslims was also present during the life of our Holy Prophet peace be upon him but they had respect for other group. Downfall of Muslims started when they started to disrespect others in the name of Islam. This is a very important point that we need to understand and act accordingly. Even in the life of our beloved Holy Prophet, not all the Muslims were true practicing Muslims. There were always sinful ppl like me present in the society but Islam does not allow to kill these ppl because, Islam is not against sinful ppl and is against sins. Islam wants us to improve our way of life everyday by rectifying our own faults.
Islam taught to us these days is exactly opposite to this theme. Today we believe in the theme that what we believe is right and all others are wrong. Next stage is that we started to exclude other Muslims from the circle of Islam & now final stage is that we have started to kill other Muslims in the name of Islam. This is going on for the last few hundred years and has also caused the downfall of Muslims in the world.
However it is sad that ppl who claim to be the leaders of their believers do not have the courage to admit their own faults and come forward to unite Muslims. Thats why I say that media & govt should start the initiative and act to unite Muslims from the streets level. please think what service we are giving to Islam by construction of three to four beautiful mosques in one muhallah??? Would it not be better that we have one mosque with an Imam who does not support any religious group. Also govt & ulamas should take steps to have some kind of control over mosques constructions and what they teach. Better to have Imams appointed by govt as done in other Islamic countries. This is possible but first we have to make ppl aware at national as well as international level that all the humans who have said “La Ilaha Illallah Muhammad ur Rasool Allah” are MUSLIMS and that there are no Kafir, Mushrik & Bidati etc. They may have their grading in the eyes of Allah and His Prophet but they are Muslims. Our Holy Prophet has said that “Hell fire will not touch a Muslim who has said La Ilaha Illallah Muhammad ur Rasool Allah in its true spirit”. Who are we to judge other ppl as Kafir & Mushrik???? May Allah have mercy on us and help all muslims. Ameen.
As I am not religious scholar therefore who are experts & authority in this subject in their own style the complete rather comprehensive answers in the following manner:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=dr+zak+%26+adultry+debate&aq=f
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=Dr.Israr+Ahmad+%26+his+lectures+&aq=f
This is the most appropriate answers of above adultery queries in Islam.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=Adultry+%26+Islamic+Punishments&aq=f
Chand Bibi was innocent. She was not a Zaniya. It is sad to see people like Hamid Mir have taken the side of terrorists.
Through some search, I also found an Urdu article by Hamid Mir supporting Taliban and meeting their leaders. He has confirmed that ‘flogging’ of the girl is real (He went to the area and has supported flogging of girl who was living with her ‘father in Law’ which is against the teachings of Islam)
http://www.akhbar-e-jehan.com/249/haamid_mir.php
@admin
would you publish the profile of author of this article so that we can make sure credibility of it.
He missed many things specially he didn’t quote any of hadiths in supporting of his arguments. It needs that he would provide references otherwise it is just his interpretation which is quite different from main discourse on this issue.
@ zahidbinmustafa and @admin
That was my first reaction too…. The author’s “interpretation” has no references. Just using verbal jugglery to make his point seem like its logical.
It is a well known fact that the holy Prophet (SAW) had prescribed the punishment of stoning to death himself. While (according to author) there is no mentioning of stoning in Quran.
For the benefit of readers I must emphasize that the source of “Ihakamat” or Rulings of islam is Quran AND Sunnah, and Sunnah is hadith that have been authenticated as much as humanly possible. some very commong examples of this is the way animals are slaughtered, and way of prayers (salat – number of raka’s etc) are not given in detail in Quran, while they are established from sunnah.
Allah knows best.
@zahidbinmustafa:
I agree with you. The author has missed many things.
1- Flogging is only for the unmarried man and woman found guilty of adultery.
2- Stoned death is for the married persons.
3- The author tried to give the imression that flogging is only for the professional prostitutes; this interpretation is totally wrong.
4- I am surprised , why author didnt quote any Sahih Hadith. Where as numerous hadiths are about adultery punishments and other relvant details.
@ M Ayub Khan
As far as I know that although the punishment of flogging is not mentioned in the Quran, it falls in the category of ¨Sunnat-e-tawaturr”. Its the same type of practice through which the way to say our prayers (salah) has come down to us, from one generation to another with not a single break in between. I do not remember the source of this at the moment but I will look it up and mention it here.
Moreover, there are also some research finding on the counterpart situation of issue of qazaf and the punishment of chaste women if they committ zina for the male gender. Also need to look up the source and get back to you.
Thanks for your post.
Having said that the issue of flogging in Swat does not address a lot of other requirements and concerns apart from these issues.
I was telling someone what Quran says on a certain issue (it was about ‘Halal’ meat). He did not agree. He said Hadith is also very important. I told him about a Hadith. He said he would ask a ‘Maulvi Sahib’. When I told him that my friends who do not agree with me have asked a Maulvi in Oxford Mosque and that Maulvi sahib also agrees, he said: ‘My knowledge says….’.
Those who want to believe something will bring their fatwas that support their pre-determined views.
Poor innocent and blind Muslims:
- Allah sent his book which itself claims that it is complete message.
- Allah clearly told that Zina is bad
- Allah clearly told the exact punishment of Zina (flogging)
- Allah went down to details and even told the number of times that punishment has to be done (100 times)
But Muslims think that Allah did not do his job properly and left the details in other books that came 200 years after Quran and they try to challenge the completeness of Quran.
Allah tells everyone to read and understand Quran, but same Muslims think that it should be left to experts only and we should just shut up and follow what Mullah say.
I agree with the interpertation of Mr. Ayub. Mullas have no right to intrepret Quran on the base of books of their ancesstors written 1000+ years ago. Hadeeths and Fiqah are all man made sources. Quran does not prescribe either Hadeeth or Fiqah or any other school. Mullaism is not Islamic by itself. Quran clearly prohibits priesthood and does not allow ‘selling his ayats’ to be adopted as a profession.
Good work Mr. Ayub.
@admin
I made a post last night using Ibn Kathir as a reference which discussed the definition of Zaniyah and Zani, which I believe this author has mistranslated, and has made the words appear different from what they actually mean. I would appreciate that my post be approved and posted.
Thanks
This article brings home the point that how outdated these religions are and they should be deposited to the dustbin of History, sooner the better.
All the billions of Zanis and Zanias living in China,The Southeast Asia,Japan ,Europe ,North and South America,Australia and New Zeland,all over the world.. How thrilled they will be to hear this.. what is God’s plan for them?
This shows how pathetically outdated pinishments and ideas in the name of religion are presented even today as real research and analysis.As they are present in the Holy books too.
Flogging is barbaric enough,if you ask me.
Flogging.
Cutting off Hnad.
80 Stripes for drinking.
Interest is ‘Haram
But you can literally get away from Murder in Islam if you pay money claimed by the relatives ,under Qisas and Dayat.
No Jail terms as Jail idea is alien to Quran.
Practice your religion as a private matter , between you and whichever God you worship. When laws will be made based on religion. No good will ever come out of that.
Keep the two seperate. But in Islam it will be impossible to achieve, at least for a thousand more years.
@Jutt Kharak
I am Muslim and you are? tell us about your religion.
@Believer @insaan
The problem is that we as a Muslim go in opposite direction to follow Islam.
We see what is beneficial for us and what part of Islam fits in our daily life and then what follows it through.
e.g My first proirity is my tradition then how I see my elders doing. Then What my parents said>then what the So called molvi or Alim said (have a lot of knowledge or degrees but not a practicle sincere person, uses knowledge for its own benefits/ does not have no knowledge and no practice )
then what my molvi’s molvi said.
then my what my head molvi said about the particular sect
Immams said
then what was Sahaba’s usual practice
then What prophet SAW Ahadeez
then what Quran said.
Instead we should be praticing Islam in its original direction.
First of all and above all is the Quran> Ahadeez of prophet SAW> practice of sahaba’s the ones they learned from prophet SAW directly
then the rest if it fits in the above criteria should be practiced
Immams said
head molvi said about particular sect
then what my molvi’s molvi said then my molvi said.then my parents said and then whatever my tradition says or asks me to do.
There are a lot of traditions or myths that have nothing to do with Islam but Muslims are practicing them.
@babu from usa
I live in Karachi and what people do here is unbelievable.
The youngsters celebrate HOLI festival with colours, proper invitation cards are printed and sent. Parents not only encouarge but also participate.
‘Gaud bharai’ has become very common (of pregnant women) and is done in exactly Indian films/Starplus style.
Mangal suttars are available at the jewellers and almost all brides wear it.
India has won the cultural war..RAW couldn’t do what their movies/television have done to our youth.
This is only promoting extremists/taliban. I feel so sad when I look at these kids because it is evident that Pakistan has no hope for its tomorrow.
M Ayoob Khan is totally right in his conception. There is no stoning in Quran. What is in Hadith is one rare instance and it appears by the words of Hadith that, that was either the case of prostitution or the case of Jews or both. In the state of Madinah jews were allowed to practice their religeous laws.
This Hadith is not in the form of order. Just an event cannot abrogate clear Quranic laws.
Ashraf M. Quraishi.
P.S Who is M Ayoob khan it is not that important. What is the clear Quranic verdict is most important.
This is a very good debates and I personally do appreciate the effort of Brother Mr Ayub that he came forward and present us the truth/reality from the Book of Allah. I know many people do agree and many always stand in rejection and many stay alive as ignorant and so on. The only thing is matter we all should individually see where We personally stand in the Book of Allah.
So If my behaviour and attitudes recomend me to seek always Guidence from the book of Allah then yes this debate is the right for me, BUT if I do not have guts to listen What Quran says about any particular things then offcourse this I will not like.
Now I totally agree whatever Ayub mentioned from the Quran and I do not have any argue or doubts in its literal meaning and translation and I also respect his way of thoughts to consider the Book of Allah as a piece of guidence to seek and to resolve OUR daily life matters from the Book of Allah.
I didnot find any ignorance in his presenting way, All what he said is from the light of Ayat of Quran and Prophet Muhammad Practice is recognized that whatever matters comes to him (pbuh) he deails according to Quran. So no one should be any doubt that If someone is showing Ayat then he is neglecting prophet teaching, rather HE/SHE is in true practice of Prophets.
Long story short, I do agree whatever you said from Quran and If any one has any argument about any ayat then BRING an AYAH from Quran that leads to you the pracitce which people did in SAWAT??? No one can show it in Quran….
Again ponder in Quran you will know this is TRUE word of Allah that is giving complete guidence in each and every single matter of OUR daily lives.
Wasalam
Asif Imam
@Pak.nukes
We should not loose hope at any time. sometimes hope just diminishes but should not be extinguished. There are problems in karachi like you describe but also in other parts of Pakistan as well. Some of the things done by those who even claim as practicing muslims but do exactly against Islam or have nothing to do with Islam.
Also if a person has beard everyone thinks if he is a scholar of Islam and if he does something wrong then we say look at him he has beard and he is doing this.
Good thing is that people are getting more educated about Islam and we can get info about Islam more easily from different sources.
Some places they donot give woman a right in property. She cannot inherit a property from her fahther and that is totally against Islamic teaching.
@jutt kharak you have not answered my question. that what is your religion?
Dear Brother BABU FROM USA Salam un alaik,
The definition of Muslim :-
[3.84] Say: We believe with Allah and what has been revealed on us, and what was revealed on Abrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and what was given to Musa and Isa and to the prophets from their Sustainer; we do not make any distinction between any of them(prophets), and we are MUSLIMS for Him(Allah).
Masha Allah I am Muslim as per the above definition of Quran.
Ayub
Aneeza said
As far as I know that although the punishment of flogging is not mentioned in the Quran.
Please read my article you will find that Quran is addressing the Flogging for Prostitudes in an Islamic State where the Govt is going to implement this Law after the education of the Laws of Quran to the Nation.
RA said:
Dear Salam un alaik,Please inform me where the translation is wrong.I have all prooves from Arabic Dictionary.
Dear Salam un Alaik,
Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar said:
Q-”if you take out the red light areas of the population, most people would agree that in Pakistan the chances of men sleeping around are far higher than women doing the same.so, why is the focus on only policing women “.
Answer:-Dear Brother read the article again and try to understand that Allah says Flogging is for both who are involved in Prostitution.
(agrana75 said:
I agree with you. The author has missed many things.)
Q-1- Flogging is only for the unmarried man and woman found guilty of adultery.
Ans-1,I have translated the Word of arabic ZANIYA which is clear that means Prostitute.Allah did not ask any witness for flogging in Sura 24 aya 2.I explained in detail.
Q-2- Stoned death is for the married persons.
Ans-2-I have quoted the Bible for those who are thinking that “STONE TO DEATH” is a Quranic Practice.
Q-3- The author tried to give the imression that flogging is only for the professional prostitutes; this interpretation is totally wrong.
Ans-3-I just translated the word ZANIYA means Prostitutes.No interpretation.
Q-4- I am surprised , why author didnt quote any Sahih Hadith. Where as numerous hadiths are about adultery punishments and other relvant details.
Ans-4-After the complete revelation of Quran there is no such practice can be done.How can it be possible while Allah has completed the revelation on Prophet pbuh and it does not consist any aya of Stone to Death.While it is clearly mentioned in Bible.
We do not want to leave the practices of our forefather.Which satisfy our Ego.
Sura 47- aya 24: Do they not then earnestly seek to understand THE QURAN
or are their hearts locked up by them
Sura Al- Furqan 25 Aya 30. And the Messenger will say,
” O my lord! Surely, my people took this AL-QURAN
and abandoned it.
Half baked conclusions without consulting sahih hadith. It’s like saying that since there is no mention of procedure of offering namaz in quran, you can offer the prayer the way you want. Some posts on this site are really fishy.
@naughtypakistani,
Can you let me know the name of book of Hadith that has the Namaz procedure?
@AYUB
I asked jutt Kharak about his religion coz of his recent comments 7:08 am
coz I had some questions in my mind to ask him.
@babu
stop asking stupid questions.
M Ayoob Khan has quoted the Quranic ayats and is totally right in his conception.
we should try to understand our book, to practice real islam of Allah as per his only book Quran, preachd by prophet s.a.w.
@jutt kharak
coz you are an idiot, so I just wanna know that if you are just an idiot or a deliberate one.
Either you are out of your senses when you write or you write them deliberately.
In any way you are JAHIL kharak.
@Babu
They let brain damaged fools like you into The United States is a tragedy in itself.
Now you have to live among all the Zanis and Zanias.
Get back to Sufi Mohammad and live in a an Islamic country.
You are living a haram life anayways. You Jahil piece of Sh**t.
@Jahil Kharak
Why you are not using your brain and using lines from my comment.
I get through to USA and you could not, so thats your tragedy.
How hypocrate comments you sent. check your comment at 7:08 am and 4:24pm and then compare them. So tell me you wrote comment at 7:08 while you were intoxicated by having a fresh glass of what?
Your stay with Mush is good for you. This will help you to lower your IQ further and you need some extra spanking especially from Mush himself. Donot forget to do your little dance in front of him to get him blessings.
@BABUN FROM USA
Don’t you feel any shame with all the sh**t coming out of your mouth?
What a ‘Ghaleez Insan’ you are?
Don’t ask anyone any questions. You JAHIL Mutliq.
Nobody’s Your ‘Baap ka naukar’ to answer your silly questions.
I think you are very young- perhaps under 20 years of age- I forgive you for your ignorant rants.
All answers are there but your dumba*s is unable to see them.
There are no punishments for biological functions such as–
1. Eating or drinking fluids because one is hungry or thirsty.
2.Emptying bladder or bowls when the urge comes and/ or is neccessary .
The issue of controlling sexual relations appears to be of paramount concern here and in the Islamic peoples.
In Saudi Arabia where there is Sharia – moral corruption is rampant. If you get the statistics for the HITS on pornographic sites on the internet- Saudi Arabia is number one in the whole world and Pakistan is number 2.
So much for Sharia being effective in stopping immorality !
Is it a biological function ? And should society be the one to put sanctions to control it and punish those that disobey.
And why should those punishments be harsh and brutal ?
And should the Muslims to-day be required to follow the rules established 1400 years ago even though God given ? Can we at least be allowed to examine the validity and practicality of these rules
And is it not hypocritical that one hand there appears to be agreement to punish those that indulge in sexual activity outside of that allowed by rules-( Marriage) – there is no rule to govern the sexual relations in marriage where too much sex is causing the population explosion in addition to other ills.
I know the population explosion is a concern -but is stoning to death the culprits of sexual activity is a very effective solution.
To those that oppose the sharia- please have courage to come out in the open and denounce the Islamic Sharia and it;s rules in plain language.
To those that propose enforcement of Islamic Sharia- have the courage to face up to and answer the criticisms of the opponents such inhumanity, cruelty and brutality.
To comment and discuss as to what is the proper punishment- either lashes or stoning or shooting is a bit strange
The problem as I see it that In Pakistan-( Muslims) people are not sure as to what they want to do.
Most people would like their daughters to be well educated and intellectual but should not be thinking in an independent manner and remain within the ” ISLAMIC” system as regards behaviour towards other men .
But when it comes to their own behaviour-( Men) towards other people’s daughters- well they say it is different and they behave like the immoral men that they are.
I am proud to be a Muslim. But most of the above comments are contrary to the Islamic Fiqh and Shariah that I have had the privelege to study for almost five years. We were taught by most eminent teachers from Pakistan and AlAzhar University. It seems that every one is obsessed with the form of punishment whithout having any knowledge of how one would reach this stage. It also appears that there is no knowledge of the basic principle in case of Zina i.e it is better to ignore or hide even if someone has witnessed the act. It would have been advisable for the writer to have educated others of the degree of evidence required for imposing the punishment. The differences amongst the Mujtahids. All four witnesses must have witnessed the actual act of intercourse in a manner that the insertion is visable to every witness. This degree of evidence is possible only if the Zina takes place in a crowded Park or street. There are several other factors which virtually makes the imposition of Hadd impossible.’
Islamic Fiqh and Shariah are based on the foundation of Preservation of LIFE, LIFE in every form, plant animal or human.
Pleaee don’t mutilate and insult the Fiqh and Shariah by writting articles and comments without having any knowledge. The Talibans are doing enough damage and are establishing that they are being funded, backed and supported by enimies of Pakistan.
Please for Allah Almighty’s sake don’t insult and damage Islam.
@Insaan, you wont find a single hadeeth narrating the whole procedures, but the procedure comes combining many hadeeths and continuation of act til Tabaeen. I am not a mufti so I am not authorised to go in details. But it’s common sense you can not interprate things from Quran just translating the message.
naughtypakistani
Do have any clue as to how a Hadith is analysed or relied upon? Please don’t damage and mutilate the great religion. Please read Usul ul Fiqh and the works of Imam Abu Hanifa, Hambal, Shafie etc before making a comment.
@ Pakhtun 77, I never claimed to be the expert but the point is can we interprate a rule soleley from Quran?
To Sheematoree! You are very right. But did you ever thought that eating drinking urinating is natural, even then you are not allowed to to eat food from any place. You have to follow some rules to eat. Rules are every where there is no any SOCIETY without rules, even jungles have kind of rules. You go to restaurant you buy your food you paid with your hard earned money but you have to eat it as it allows the restaurant, on the table not walking back and forth in the restaurant. Urination is natural need bu to fulfill this need you have to go in to covered area i.e washrooms, if you urinate on the road side you will be booed and jeered and you will also get ticket. Sexual urge is natural but would you allow your father to get it satisfied any where other than your mom. Would you allow your mom to go to satisfy her sexual any where other than your father?
Every society, every religion every government makes rules for the society to obay and keep the society in harmony. When accept this then we will be able to understand that laws of a society may right or wrong, or it can appear to us right or wrong, but there is always some reason and logic behind every rule and law.
Hope you will try to understand it unbiasly.
Ashraf M. Quraishi.
Bismillah
Assalamualikum Wr. Wb.
Brother Ayub, before I say anything about your fatawa above. I would like to know, what is your scholarly background on Islamic Sciences, because I believe for any Muslim it should be of the highest concern to not take their islamic knowledge from anyone out there. Given the importance of Islam in this life and in hereafter, knowledge of it should only be taken and accepted from people of the best character and knowledge in islamic sciences.
It is like if you are ill, you don’t want to trust any doctors to get treatment from, It could be very life threatening. Same is true for your Iman, you don’t want to trust Islamic knowledge from people whose scholarly work hasn’t gone through extensive peer review. So, I would also like to know, which scholars have reviewed your scholarly work above and agreed to it???
Secondly, it will be very beneficial for your readers and acceptance of your work that you tell them what do you think is the position of Hadith and opinions of early muslim scholars (Salaf) in establishment of Islamic rulings?
@pkpolitics Administration
I would like to remind you that before you let anyone post anything related to religion it should be of the highest scholarly standards and quality and comming from people who are known to be best in Islamic Sciences (Knowledge of both Quran and Sunnah which constitute any Islamic rulings). If that post misguide any muslim on this forum, you will be held responsible on the Day of Judgement.
I think Quaran also agrees with Jesus .. that “those amongst you who is not guilty must throw the first stone”
I think this whole debate is nonsensical jibberish.
Just look around you — EACH OF YOU .. and tell yourself — HAVE YOU NEVER COVETED ?
I will bet some of you have done a lot more than that.
Then you put on your white hat and become momin — come on — live in reality
Dear Salam un Alaik,You asked as:
{anti_democratic said:
Brother Ayub, before I say anything about your fatawa above. I would like to know, what is your scholarly background on Islamic Sciences, because I believe for any Muslim it should be of the highest concern to not take their islamic knowledge from anyone out there.}
Answer:-This is not a FATWA but it is the analysis of the ayat mentioned in Quran. As you know that Quran is the Book of Allah The Guidence for mankind.It is not the property of any school of thought.Kindly read the following FATWA’S from Allah in the following ayat then refrain your question again.Allah says as:
AL-QAMAR- 54 17. And We have indeed made THE QURAN easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?
BANI-ISRAIL- 17 89. And We have explained to man in this QURAN every kind of EXAMPLE, yet the greater part of mankind refuse except with ingratitude.
BANI-ISRAIL- 17 45. When you read Quran, We put between you and those who believe not in hereafter, a veil invisible: 46. And We put coverings over their hearts that they should understand THE QURAN, and deafness is their ears; and when you mention your Lord and Him alone in THE QURAN, they turn on their backs feelings.
Al- FURQAN- 25 30. And the Messenger will say, ” O my lord! Surely, my people took this AL-QURAN and abandoned it. (did not practice)
Kindly let me know that which part of the ayat in the article is wrongly analysed.Please discuss about the subject which I have presented.
Thanks
naughtypakistani
The science to derive a rule or command from the Sources is known as Usul-ul-Fiqh. No person is authorised to interpret or derive a Command without being a Mujtahid. Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Malik, Imam Shafie, Imam Hambal were the first Mujtahids. On the basis of Usul-ul-Fiqh, they differ in thier opinions. One may be very strict in relying on a Hadith while others would be less strict. Not every Hadith is considered authentic. The Usul are applied. When the State started to destroy and distort Islam by forcing the Mujtahids to give certain desired opinions, Mujtahids decided to close the doors to Ijtihad. Today everyone seems to be acting as a Mujtahid and are leaving no strone unturned in damaging and destroying Islam.
@ Jahil Kharak
Oh man I really hurted your feelings. An man with abusive languuage and no sense. I know you cannot answer so donot feel bad just say I cannot.
could you put some light on B-7 of WTC fall. LOL not a question.
I forgive you too.
Brothers Ayub Khan and Pakhtun77: Thank you for your contributions. You are both right in your different ways.
If you are not already familiar with Dr Shabbir Ahmed’s writings in Urdu and English, I recommened that you visit his website http://www.ourbeacon.com.
One of the best expositions of Islam for young people is the Urdu masterpiece “Saleem ke naam khatoot” by Ghulam Ahmad Parwaiz.
By and large, we are all constrained by our limited powers to comprehend REALITY. Let us not be dogmatic and let us just follow the Message of the Qur’an with as much sincerity as we can muster. If you have to spend many years of your life to study fiqh, “ahadees”, etc, before we are able to work out Allah’s Will for us then Islam is only for the intellectuals and the clever university types. How will simple folk manage? Will the clever ulama for ever keep twirling us around their little fingers? The fact is Islam is NOT a religion, it is a Way of Life.
fii amaan Allah.
@shimatoree
With due respect I disagree with your points.
If someone is thirsty/ hungry they can drink water or juices etc./ cow steak in normal life. Drinking alcohol /urine etc./ pork / should not be first proirity unless someone needs to save life.
What is your source of evidence about #1 SA and #2 Pakistan.
Lets assume that what you said is right then tell us where these pornographic movies are made #1, #2,#3 or who is involved in them.
In SA sharia is not fully implemented. some traditions are practiced along with sharia.
Tell me how many cases of teen pregnancy of SINGLE MOM in SA or Pakistan or any other muslim countries. and then compare them with USA and other western countries. How much the problem they are facing?
I am not sure what you mean by biological function?
Off course it is biological function but one need to control or there should be laws to control such people. Otherwise, a person rapes someone and simply says I was just having an urgency to fullfill my body requirements. Also consider a gang rape, will IT be fully justified. Should be the punishement be harshed or just a month in jail so the person does the same again.
In normal life every one will be free to do whatever they want under the so called doctrine of biological function. Who will put the limit or just like animals .
How about electric chair death in USA for killer? should let the killers loose.
1400 years ago the laws are universe and are functional. Only thing is to implement them under their true spirit. There are some laws of physics and science that we use them till today e.g Newton laws etc. we should not apply them now only coz they are too old. Force of Gravity is the same 9.8m/sec square.
Check the facts and compare them in USA and SA on per year bases.
How many rape cases in a year.
How many killings.
How many deaths by accidents due to alcohol.
How many cases of Single mom teen age pregnancies.
How many HIV patients.
How many bastards are born each year.
INSTEAD OF ADOPTING GOOD THINGS FROM USA / WESTERNS LIKE CLEAN ROADS, CLEAN ENVIRNOMENT, FACILITIES IN SCHOOLS AND HOSPITALS , NEW TECHNOLOGY TO OVER COME HUMAN SUFFERINGS ETC. YOU ARE TELLING US TO ADOPT THE BAD THINGS FROM THEM.
@ Mr. Ayub Khan
Food of Thought…
For the Answer of your calrification about Zana i am just coating one very popular hadith from Bukhari & Muslim;
” On Women from Muslim came to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon Him) and asked ” Ya Rasool i performed Zinah and i want to be ” Had ” from you, Prophet asked 3 times to her to go back to home and Toubah with Allah May he will forbid her but she didn’t accept and ask 4th time to Nifaz HAD against her. This time Prophet ask her that is she Preganant with child ? she replied “YES ” prophet said ” go first birth a child then came back ‘ she came back after to birth a child and ask again to Prophet for HAD prophet Ordered ” Sangsar ” to her when Sahaba (RATA) sangsar her to her blood came on the faces of some sahaba so some one from them said ” oh what a bad she was ‘ so Prophet (PBUH) stop them and said ” She in now in Jannah and the TOUBAH she performed if Allah divide on this land that is enough for all ” & then prophet said ” I am prophet of Allah if you performed any sin pardon with allah lonely dont come to me if you will come to me i will follow the Order of Allah “.
So the point is
1. Above women was not use to of Zinah.
2. Nobody asked her or push her to confess for HAD and punishment untill or unless a 4 shahadah against her and they ask to Qazi for in Islamic Shariah but better here to ask her to Toubah if by mistakely ( but how many are doing this mistakely these days & definatly if you catch them so both would lying due to they would afraid to might have punishment).
3.Allegation is same for All not defined for a women having profession
Wasalam
Dear Brother Abu Hashim : this Riwayat is directly in contradiction with Quran but in favour of Bible which I have quoted in my Article.We believe in Quran and Sunnah but not The Bible.
AL-HADEED- 57 16. Has not the time arrived for believers that their hearts in all humility should engage in the remembrance of Allah and of the truth which has been revealed and that they should not become like those to whom was given THE BOOK before, but long ages passed their hearts grew hard, for many among them are rebellious transgressors.
Al- FURQAN- 25 30. And the Messenger will say, ” O my lord! Surely, my people took this AL-QURAN and abandoned it. (did not practice)
This fitna of Munkireen-e-Hadith is everywhere. The interpretation of the author is clearly a misguided one, not considering the Sahih Ahadith in the least bit. May Allah guide them and us towards the right path.
Dear farqis Salam un alaik,
Kindly do not ignore the ayat by accusing me.Brother the attitude is the key to understand the truth.
BANI-ISRAIL- 17 45. When you read Quran, We put between you and those who believe not in hereafter, a veil invisible: 46. And We put coverings over their hearts that they should understand THE QURAN, and deafness is their ears; and when you mention your Lord and Him alone in THE QURAN, they turn on their backs feelings.
Masha Allah the conclusion in the ayat of Sura Noor has proved that there is no concept of Stone to Death in Quran Majeed.But it is the Law of Bible and the non muslims are accusing Islam for this barbaric punishment with out any knowledge.
Dawud :: Book 38 : Hadith 4405
Narrated Nu’aym ibn Huzzal:
Yazid ibn Nu’aym ibn Huzzal, on his father’s authority said: Ma’iz ibn Malik was an orphan under the protection of my father. He had illegal sexual intercourse with a slave-girl belonging to a clan. My father said to him: Go to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and inform him of what you have done, for he may perhaps ask Allah for your forgiveness. His purpose in that was simply a hope that it might be a way of escape for him.
So he went to him and said: Apostle of Allah! I have committed fornication, so inflict on me the punishment ordained by Allah. He (the Prophet) turned away from him, so he came back and said: Apostle of Allah! I have committed fornication, so inflict on me the punishment ordained by Allah. He (again) turned away from him, so he came back and said: Apostle of Allah! I have committed fornication, so inflict on me the punishment ordained by Allah.
When he uttered it four times, the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: You have said it four times. With whom did you commit it?
He replied: With so and so. He asked: Did you lie down with her? He replied: Yes. He asked: Had your skin been in contact with hers? He replied. Yes. He asked: Did you have intercourse with her? He said: Yes. So he (the Prophet) gave orders that he should be stoned to death. He was then taken out to the Harrah, and while he was being stoned he felt the effect of the stones and could not bear it and fled. But Abdullah ibn Unays encountered him when those who had been stoning him could not catch up with him. He threw the bone of a camel’s foreleg at him, which hit him and killed him. They then went to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and reported it to him.
He said: Why did you not leave him alone. Perhaps he might have repented and been forgiven by Allah.
Malik :: Book 41 : Hadith 41.1.6
Malik related to me from Ibn Shihab from Ubaydullah ibn Abdullah ibn Utba ibn Masud that Abu Hurayra and Zayd ibn Khalid al-Juhani informed him that two men brought a dispute to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace. One of them said, “Messenger of Allah! Judge between us by the Book of Allah!” The other said, and he was the wiser of the two, “Yes, Messenger of Allah. Judge between us by the Book of Allah and give me permission to speak.” He said, “Speak.” He said, “My son was hired by this person and he committed fornication with his wife. He told me that my son deserved stoning, and I ransomed him for one hundred sheep and a slave-girl. Then I asked the people of knowledge and they told me that my son deserved to be flogged with one hundred lashes and exiled for a year, and they informed me that the woman deserved to be stoned.” The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, “By him in whose Hand myself is, I will judge between you by the Book of Allah. As for your sheep and slave girl, they should be returned to you. Your son should have one hundred lashes and be exiled for a year.” He ordered Unays al-Aslami to go to the wife of the other man and to stone her if she confessed . She confessed and he stoned her.
Muslim :: Book 17 : Hadith 4205
Sulaiman b. Buraida reported on the authority of his father that Ma, iz b. Malik came to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said to him: Messenger of Allah, purify me, whereupon he said: Woe be upon you, go back, ask forgiveness of Allah and turn to Him in repentance. He (the narrator) said that he went back not far, then came and said: Allah’s Messenger, purify me. whereupon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Woe be upon you, go back and ask forgiveness of Allah and turn to Him in repentance. He (the narrator) said that he went back not far, when he came and said: Allah’s Messenger, purify me. Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) said as he had said before. When it was the fourth time, Allah’s Messenger (may, peace be upon him) said: From what am I to purify you? He said: From adultery, Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) asked if he had been mad. He was informed that he was not mad. He said: Has he drunk wine? A person stood up and smelt his breath but noticed no smell of wine. Thereupon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Have you committed adultery? He said: Yes. He made pronouncement about him and he was stoned to death. The people had been (divided) into two groups about him (Ma’iz). One of them said: He has been undone for his sins had encompassed him, whereas another said: There is no repentance more excellent than the repentance of Ma’iz, for he came to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) and placing his hand in his (in the Holy Prophet’s) hand said: Kill me with stones. (This controversy about Ma’iz) remained for two or three days. Then came Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) to them (his Companions) as they were sitting. He greeted them with salutation and then sat down and said: Ask forgiveness for Ma’iz b. Malik. They said: May Allah forgive Ma’iz b. Malik. Thereupon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: He (Ma’iz) has made such a repentance that if that were to be divided among a people, it would have been enough for all of them. He (the narrator) said: Then a woman of Ghamid, a branch of Azd, came to him and said: Messenger of of Allah, purify me, whereupon he said: Woe be upon you; go back and beg forgiveness from Allah and turn to Him in repentance. She said: I find that you intend to send me back as you sent back Ma’iz. b. Malik. He (the Holy, Prophet) said: What has happened to you? She said that she had become pregnant as a result of fornication. He (the Holy Prophet) said: Is it you (who has done that)? She said: Yes. He (the Holy Prophet) said to her: (You will not be punished) until you deliver what is there in your womb. One of the Ansar became responsible for her until she was delivered (of the child). He (that Ansari) came to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said the woman of Ghamid has given birth to a child. He (the Holy Prophet) said: In that case we shall not stone her and so leave her infant with none to suckle him. One of the Ansar got up and said: Allah’s Apostle, let the responsibility of his suckling be upon me. She was then stoned to death.
Dear Ayub, Wa’Alaikum-us-Salam,
The bottom line, as I said in my first comment, comes down to believing in Sahih Ahadith or not. I can Insha-Allah quote more if required, but it would be a waste if you do not consider Ahadith to be a valid source for Islamic teachings and Rulings (especially Hudud). And this thread is not the place to debate belief/disbelief in Ahadith.
Regarding your argument that we need to stick to Quran alone so that the rest of the world does not call the punishments ordained by Allah and his messenger as barbaric… let me quote a verse from Quran:
Al-Ma’idah [5:33]
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;
CRUCIFIXION !!! I don’t think they need anything else! And we don’t need to do different interpretations just because the critics of Islam criticize something. They will keep picking things in your religion:
Al-Baqarah [2:120]
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion. Say: “The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance.” Wert thou to follow their desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither Protector nor helper against Allah.
If they are going astray, we do not need to change our religion to appease them:
Al-Baqarah [2:26]
Allah disdains not to use the similitude of things, lowest as well as highest. Those who believe know that it is truth from their Lord; but those who reject Faith say: “What means Allah by this similitude?” By it He causes many to stray, and many He leads into the right path; but He causes not to stray, except those who forsake (the path),-
And lastly, you called it the law of the Bible… Do you intend to disgrace Allah’s books?
Al-Baqarah [2:4-5]
And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.
They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.
Even if it is in Torah or Injeel, we still believe that Torah, Zaboor, Injeel (not the current version of Bible), Quran and other divine books were All from Allah. And whatever rulings Allah’s Prophet ordained for us which have come to us through Sahih Ahadith with verifiable chains, are to be followed.
Do answer this one question though for my better understanding of where you’re coming from… Do you believe in Sahih Ahadith (conditionally or unconditionally)? If yes and conditionally, then what conditions do you apply? A ‘No’ ofcourse requires no explanation.
Was’Salam
Farqi
SURAH AL-JATHIA, aayat 6:
THESE ARE THE MESSAGES OF ALLAH WE CONVEY TO YOU WITH TRUTH. THEN, IN WHAT HADITH IF NOT IN ALLAH AND HIS VERSES, WILL THEY BELIEVE?
If we bear in mind the principle of TASREEF, that is, Al-Qur’an covers a given subject repeatedly from different perspectives, all which are CONSISTENT then there is no room left for flights of fantasy and for fantastic stories which came to be written down some 250-300 years after the Last Messenger of Allah had died.
Who were the people who first wrote down those stories? These so-called ‘imams’ were all from families who converted to Islam from Zoroastrianism. They were all brought up in the erstwhile Persian empire and they did not properly understand the Quraish dialect in which Al-Qur’an was revealed. They tended to interpret the Qur’anic Message in the light of the teachings of Zoroastrianism to which their minds had been conditioned.
Those who prefer the stories written in the books of former followers of Zoroaster – Zarathustra – to the truths conveyed in the Qur’an are sailing very close to the ‘Munikireen-Quraan’ wind. If there is a clear contradiction between the Quraan and a “hadith” story, which one will you accept? A munkir-e-Quraan prefers the latter irrespective of how shameful and immoral that story is!
Please brothers, to learn the truth about the so-called “ahadeeth” please read the Urdu masterpiece “Saleem ke naam khatoot”. It is in 3 volumes. If I remember correctly, the subject of “ahadeeth” is covered in the second or third volume.
Having read Allama Parwaiz’s book, please go on and read a translation of the Qur’an. The translations I would recommend are:
Urdu: ‘Mafhoom-ul-Qur’an’ by Ghulam Ahmad Parwaiz;
English: ‘Qur’an As It Explains Itself’ by Dr Shabbir Ahmed (available from his website http://www.ourbeacon.com).
fii amaan Allah
No Comment.
Dear Aseer, Assalam-o-Alaikum,
Brother, we can discuss the Qadyani-ism some other day and on some other thread… For now we’re discussing a topic related to Islam.
Was’salam
Farqi
@mbokhari
Unfortunately it is written in the Quran to beat your wife if her conduct is improper
It is in Surah Nisa ayat no 36. any Muslim would say no comment after reading it in the Quran.
@pak.nukes
yet noone reads the preceding ayah, and noone reads the hadith explaining it, breifly put the word us is wadribuhin ( 2 hit). The conteext of ayah is regarding adultry of a wife and what a hubby to do.
1 – talk with her, seek counseling, try to mediate and find ways for her to stop being an adulterer.
2 – If above fails then to seperate thier beds i.e not to sleep with her if she persists with adultry.
3 – if above fails to hit her so that she stops from being and adulterer.
Note the conditions posted b4 hitting her in Quran.
Lets turn to tafseer as per Prophet PBUH. Prophet dun like that we hit woman, thats why ALLAH has provided the way of divorce, dun hit her so hard as to leave a mark, dun hit her on the face dun hit her as to cause pain etc etc.
What hitting means is explained in Quran through the story of hadrath ayub aleh salat-o-wasalam, who when was being tested by ALLAH and was ill got mad one day on his wife and sworee wheen he gets betteer will hit her 100 strokes and ALLAH provided the way to fullfiill his oath by taking 100 straws joining them and lightly touhcing his wife to fullfill his oath.
ALSO point to ponder is the only time Quran mentions the hitting is in regards of an adulterer who refuse to mend her ways.
@mbo
“No comment”? That’s it?? No, you MUST comment on this. At least say “It is wrong!” or something. Come on….
BTW: Interesting choice for the source of the translation i.e. MEMRI .
Salamu a3laykum wa ra7matuAllaah wa barakatuh
After reading what writer have wrote and some of people comment i must say mostly the writer have used alone Qur’anic verses and made up their own interpretation. The basic thing that we get is when you have a Qur’anic verses and you do Istimbaat on matters then one must first mention Qur’anic verses and then Saheeh Hadeeth and then interpretation of Salaf Saliheen (pious predecessors). With Qur’an in many ways people can be guided and in many ways can be misguided. There are are so many of sects, how come? The simple answer is whenever a group of peolpe have not taken its deen from salaf saliheen and made their own interpretation finally they have made up sect like maturidiyah, jahmiyah, mut’izalah, qadiryah, jabariyah, khwarijh, etc. May Allaah save us from their fitnah, ameen.
So its my humble request that we must get our deen from Qur’an wa Saheeh Sunnah plus the interpretation of Salaf Saliheen. And we must look upon tafaseer of salaf like tafseer ibn abbaas, tafseer ibn katheer, tafseer ibn jareer etc May Allaah guide us all, ameen.
@razakhan
“yet noone reads the preceding ayah, and noone reads the hadith explaining it”
Exactly. But that is what MEMRI does. And if you get your “faith” from MEMRI, what do you expect?
Same is the case with ‘You can have four wives’ bit that I was talking about the other day…
Wonder what MEMRI has to say on that? No comment??
@nota
kabhi aaey haqeeqat-e-muntazir nazar aa libas-e-majaz main
ke hazaroon sajdey tarap rahey hain meri jabeeen-e-nayaz main
kabhi sirbasajud jo main hoa, to zameen se aai yeh sadaa
tera dil to hai sanam aashna tujhey kia miley ga namaz main
Iqbal
@razakhan
@ nota
Yaar seriously why does these articles are allowed to be posted here? Whoever this ayub guy is need a thorough education in Interpretation of ayah’s. alzaniyaah is a prostitute? I mean seriiously alzanni will be man wh@re lol. What abt ppl who dun pay but enjoy ahem ahem, jaisa apna cheeta IK tha;) would that mean no hud on him:p
@pak.nukes
I think it is Ayat No. 34. Here is a tafseer NOT from MEMRI
^^^
Here is commentary by Mohammed Asad (from “The Message of the Quran”) about the ayat in question:
It is evident from many authentic Traditions that the Prophet himself intensely detested the idea of beating one’s wife, and said on more than one occasion, “Could any of you beat his wife as he would beat a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?” (Bukhari and Muslim). According to another Tradition, he forbade the beating of any woman with the words, “Never beat God’s handmaidens” (Abu Da’ud, Nasa’i, Ibn Majah, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Ibn Hibban and Hakim, on the authority of Iyas ibn ‘Abd Allah; Ibn Hibban, on the authority of ‘Abd Allah ibn ‘Abbas; and Bayhaqi, on the authority of Umm Kulthum). When the above Qur’an-verse authorizing the beating of a refractory wife was revealed, the Prophet is reported to have said: “I wanted one thing, but God has willed another thing – and what God has willed must be best” (see Manar V, 74). With all this, he stipulated in his sermon on the occasion of the Farewell Pilgrimage, shortly before his death, that beating should be resorted to only if the wife “has become guilty, in an obvious manner, of immoral conduct”, and that it should be done “in such a way as not to cause pain (ghayr mubarrih)”; authentic Traditions to this effect are found in Muslim, Tirmidhi, Abu Da’ud, Nasa’i and Ibn Majah. On the basis of these Traditions, all the authorities stress that this “beating”, if resorted to at all, should be more or less symbolic – “with a toothbrush, or some such thing” (Tabari, quoting the views of scholars of the earliest times), or even “with a folded handkerchief” (Razi); and some of the greatest Muslim scholars (e.g., Ash-Shafi’i) are of the opinion that it is just barely permissible, and should preferably be avoided: and they justify this opinion by the Prophet’s personal feelings with regard to this problem.
(@MEMRIbo, I hope you won’t have your post deleted as I will need to reference it plenty
)
Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI)
“Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), according to the Institute’s web site, “emphasizes the continuing relevance of Zionism to the Jewish people and to the state of Israel.”[1] It “explores the Middle East through the region’s media. MEMRI bridges the language gap which exists between the West and the Middle East, providing timely translations of Arabic, Farsi, and Hebrew media, as well as original analysis of political, ideological, intellectual, social, cultural, and religious trends in the Middle East.”[2]
MEMRI has several offices around the world. Americans work in D.C.; British, Spaniards, Italians, Germans, and Norwegians work in the European Union; Israelis in Israel; Japanese in Japan; Arabs also make up some of the people who work for MEMRI. ”
LOL I dont have to add any thing.
@Nukes Keep the bloody nukes safe! I saw the Americans s****ing their pants! Just surfaced to say hello!
@ALL RE: MEMRI Must read Read
“MEMRI’s stance is that it is opposed to Islamic fundamentalism, not Islam itself, although the integrity of this position may be questioned because of links on MEMRI’s website to certain evangelical Christian organizations who take a harder line on Islam. Yigal Carmon, MEMRI’s founder, is a former advisor on terrorism to the Israeli Prime Ministers, Yitzhak Shamir and Yitzhak Rabin, so he actually worked for both Labor and Likud governments”
Dear Brother Nota: Thank you very much for your post about aayat 4:34 of Al-Qur’an and for the excellent extract from Allama Mohammed Asad’s book.
The one word in SURAH AN-NISA, aayat 34, that has caused much controversy is ‘dharb’, which was translated by the Zoroastrian converts to Islam as ‘a beating’, and which no one dared question until modern times. Using TASREEF, let us see how this word is used elsewhere in the Qur’an (which was revealed in the Quraish’s Arabic dialect) of 1400 years ago.
Meaning 1: ‘To give example/ compare’. See 13:17, 16:74, 36:13, 43:58.
Meaning 2: ‘To stop or prevent/ to withdraw’. See 43:5.
Meaning 3: ‘To embark upon a journey/hit the road’. See 4:101.
Hence, Shabbir Ahmed Sahib translates the controversial passage as “keep admonishing them with examples”. His full translation of this aayah (4:34) is as follows:
Men are the protectors and supporters of women. They shall take full care of women with what they spend of their wealth. God has made men to excel in some areas and women to excel in some areas. Men should ensure that women are able to stand on their feet in society. So, righteous women are obedient to God’s Ordinances and guard the moral values even in privacy, the values that God has commanded to be guarded. If you experience ill-treatment from them, apprise them of possible consequences. Next, leave them in their resting places, but keep admonishing them with examples. If they pay heed to you, do not seek a way against them. God is Most High, Great.
fii amaan Allah.
Salam un alaik Dear farqis, Brother the following Riwayat was quoted by you in favour of Biblical Law of STONE TO DEATH.
Kindly analyze the following:
Malik :: Book 41 : Hadith 41.1.6
Malik related to me from ….One of them said, “Messenger of Allah! Judge between us by the Book of Allah!” The other said, and he was the wiser of the two, “Yes, Messenger of Allah. Judge between us by the Book of Allah …….., I will judge between you by the Book of Allah. ……” He ordered Unays al-Aslami to go to the wife of the other man and to stone her if she confessed . She confessed and he stoned her.
Analysis:-1-“Messenger of Allah! Judge between us by the Book of Allah!”
2-”I will judge between you by the Book of Allah.”
Brother-e-Mohtaram: How it is possible that Rasool pbuh said “I will judge between you by the Book of Allah.” The Book of Allah does not contain any aya for Stone To Death.Brother this riwayat is again directly contradicting The Quran and supporting the Jews and Chiristians BIBLE.If you have any reference from Quran then please paste on the Screen.I am waiting for the reference from The Book Of Allah.
Please analyse every thing which you are quoting and forcing us to believe.
Ayub
ASAK
I’m assuming that all of you guys are well educated and open minded without analyzing by yourself you’ll not get to the conclusion. It’s a matter of human life so you have to be more cautious, here I’m presenting the Hadith books writer information for your review. Please note that none of the book was written in the life of Prophet PBUH died in 632AD or respected Companion (R.A). They started emerging after after 200 years when only some of Tabain or Taba Tabain were alive. All of those hadith compiler were non-arab (Iranian mostly).
Name Collector Size
Sahih Bukhari Imam Bukhari (d. 870) 7275 hadiths
Sahih Muslim Muslim Ibn al-Hajjaj (d. 875) included 9200
Sunan Abi Da’ud Abu Da’ud (d. 888)
Sunan al-Tirmidhi al-Tirmidhi (d. 892)
Sunan al-Sughra al-Nasa’i (d. 915)
Sunan Ibn Maja Ibn Maja (d. 886)
Just to give you some backgronud after Iran was conquered in the time of Hazrat Umer R.A all the fitna erupted. Hazrat Umer himself burnt lot of Hadith books compiled by many Companion (R.A) saying previous Sharia was distorted because of these kind of books became extra addition in the religion. The good example is Talmud was compiled in addition to Torha (Torait).
Now you decide yourself that if you are dealing with human life then you need to decide from first hand information i.e. Al-Quran, guaranteed by Allah not to change a single word till the day of Judgment or the third hand information that’s hearsay.
Hope you got my point with the open heart and mind.
Thanks for reading.
Wasslam.
@Ayub
You clearly seem to be a person who does not believe on Sahih ahadith (Hadith rejector). But I am astonished , then how do you beleive in quran?
Quran was revealed to us through Muhammad(PBUH). So actually quran was transferred to other people through Hadith.Today Quran in book format was compiled after his death.
If there was no need of prophet and and actual interpretation and explanation of the quranic verses through prophet , then I cannot understand the reason of appointing prophets and sent Allah words through them. Why didnt he just put his words in book format , and asked every one to follow it with everyone own understanding.
“And We have sent down unto You the Message so that you may explain clearly to men what is sent for them.” [An-Nahal, 16:44].
“Allah did confer a great favor on the Believers when He sent among them a Messenger from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs (Verses) of Allah, purifying them, instructing them in Scripture, and teaching them Wisdom. While before that they were in manifest error.” [A'ale Imran 3:164].
I also assume that being among munkareen hadith, you dont believe in offering salat the way Prophet did. Would you like to explain , how we should pray when quran time and again asks to offer salat. You believe in Masjid , as this word is given in Quran, but how we will perform salat there?
@Pardesi_patriot:
It is a matter of astonishment that you believe in the story of the Umar(RA) order to burn some of the compiled ahadith but you dont beleive in the sahih ahadith. Where as fact is that Umar himslef changed his some orders on the basis of ahadith when told to him.
Hi @nota
Thanks for pointing out the mistake in ayat number.
@Tauqeer Akbar
How could you not come to say Hello to me?
@razakhan
Thank you for your tafseer. I read both Sunni/Shia tafseers and there is no disagreement on this ayat.
It is though clear that this option is to be used as a last resort.
Hi @nota
Thanks for pointing out the mistake in ayat number.
@Tauqeer Akbar
How could you not come to say Hello to me?
@razakhan
Thank you for your tafseer. I read both S-un-ni/Sh-ia tafseers and there is no disagreement on this ayat.
It is though clear that this option is to be used as a last resort.
@Ayub
I fail to understand what u trying to convey with this article. Is it that flogging and stonning are traditional and similar sentences for fornication and adultry, respectively? I dun think anyone who has read quran can deny that or for that matter Torah. BTW ur argument abt Bible is not right as Paul had declared in 3rd century at Nisa that Shariyaat has been revoked,. The biblical law is now cannon and pope law. They pick and choose from torah and dun prescribed to flogging and stonning for fornication/adultry.
Now back to ur article, i can go on but on one point where u have misinterpretated the ayah clearly is where u denotes zaniya means prostitute and zani the guys who use prostitutes. Dun know where u got this tafseer but its wrong as a zani can be anyone who have fornication with other gender irregardless of money being exchanged, as done in west (now common in pak) called dating and premarital relationship. Thats why 2 words fornication and adultry, prostitute is not a condition. 2nd u said no witnesses r required then how do u charge someone? It is explicitly expalined in quran, by sunnah and by sahaba and its ijma of umma that for hud of fornication or adultry u need 4 witnesses who have seen the act of penetration.
I request u to read some tafseer by renowed scholors and understand that the shariah stands on quran, sunnah, ijma and qayas. All r neccessary.
Some points to ponder for those who cannot free themselves from the spell cast on them by the mullahs and the – nauz billah – maulanas [our masters! Our master is Allah alone, no one else].
1. Have you ever read the WHOLE Qur’an in translation? If you have not, then this is the first thing that you need to do before you engage in a discussion involving Al-Qur’an.
2. Have you read the ahadith books in sufficient depth to be aware of the stories which malign and ridicule Muhammad Rasul-Allah, Rehmatul-lil-aalameen? For example, there are vile anecdotes which turn the greatest man who ever lived into a child molestor, marrying a little girl of 6!
3. Are you aware of the shameful, pornographic stories to be found in the sahih ahaadith, and which contradict the Quraanic injunctions?
4. The Qur’an was revealed gradually over a period of 22 years, during which Rasul-Allah was constantly offering advice and guidance to those who accepted his message. When it was time for Rasul-Allah to leave this world he made sure Allah’s complete Message was committed to writing (using animal skins and other materials).
5. Apart from the Book of Allah, the great glory of Islam was the large number of noble human beings of impeccable characters that Rasul-Allah had trained and guided during his lifetime. When it was time for Allah’s Messenger to go, it was these near perfect human beings who annihilated the mighty but oppressive and unjust Persian and Roman empires of the day.
6. The so-called “sahih ahadith” collections were penned by non-Arabs of Persian/Zoroastrian origin some 250-300 after the death of the Last Messenger of Allah. They were Persian speakers who learnt Arabic but did not necessarily master the Quraish dialect of Arabic in which Al-Qur’an was revealed. The so-called muhaditheen had simply travelled around in Arabia listening to stories in circulation at that time. By then many generations had passed and there were literally hundreds of thousands of false stories attributed to Muhammad Rasul-Allah. These stories had been introduced by the enemies of Islam (Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, kharijis, etc.) and by the corrupt Muslim clergy which manufactured fake anecdotes to curry favour with the self-indulgent monarchs who ruled the expanding Muslim empire (they called themselves ‘khalifah’ but, in practice, they were hereditary kings, power passing from father to son).
7. Hence there are hundreds of ‘sahih ahadith’ which contradict the Qur’anic injunctions. If a person chooses not to reject them then he becomes munkir-e-Qur’an. Decide for yourself if you would rather be a munkir-e-hadees or munkir-e-Qur’an.
8. Lastly, there is a false belief that the complete instructions to perform ritual prayers are given in ahadith. Which hadith? If there were one, the Muslims would have a uniform method of offering prayers, not the wide variety that exists today. Brothers and Sisters, it does not matter how we turn to our Creator to seek His Rehmat and Barkat in our lives – his power is within us and around us and He is aware how sincere we are and He knows our innermost thoughts.
fii amaan Allah.
@Aseer :
Just answer my few questions.
1- How do you come to know that The Qur’an was revealed gradually over a period of 22 years?
2- How do you come to know that he made sure Allah’s complete Message was committed to writing (using animal skins and other materials)?
3- Can you quote me any sahih hadith which contradict any quranic verse?
4- Do you beleive in salat, if so how do you pray it, how many rikkats and how many times per day ? Quran says you should pray at the specified times , how you come to know the specified times?
5- Do you say Assalam-o-alaikum?
6- Do you beleive in zakat, if so how much should we pay and how?
7- How many fastings you observe in Ramdhan and why?
8- Do you beleive in performing hajj, if so how will you perform hajj?
@Aseer :
Regarding your objection on Muhammad (PBUH) marriage with Aisha(RA) at early age. Let me describe you some facts.
1- He nikkah was carried out with ayesa when she was 6 but started living with her when she was 9.
2- We dont find any proof, if this marriage was objected in madina or any other place at the time of Muhammad life. Even few 100 years ago , you would not find any such objection . It is because people used to marry their girls at very early age not long ago. But when people started making someage limits for a girl to be married , they raised questions on mohammad marriage because it was the only example found in sahih hadith from the history.
3- There are two points here. a) If a girl cannot be married at the age of 9 ? b) Did muhammad really married ayesha when she was 9?
answer to a): Medically there is no harm in marrying a girl at this age as long as she is menstruating . It is well known that arabic girls reach their adult age quite early than other regions. Still in arab , some girls are being married at this age.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/01/14/2009-01-14_senior_saudi_cleric_says_girls_can_marry.html
Even these days, you can find various examples of girls becoming mothers at very small age in other parts of the world.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-385968/Girl-11-Britains-youngest-mother.html
http://ia310841.us.archive.org/0/items/9YearOldYoungThaiWomanMotherWithChild/9yrOldThaiYoungWoman.jpg
The point is that , presently there is no more culture of marrying girls at early age, so such things look weired to us now other wise medically there is no harm in it.
answer to b): There are number of sahih hadith , which clearly describe the age of ayesha(RA) when she was married. So these are the same sahih hadiths by which we come to know the ages of other prophet wives. So there is no reason to refute all such hadiths.
@agrana75
Nikah with hadrath ayesha was done when she was 9 and rukhsatee happened at either age 11 or 13 i.e when she hit puberty.
@razakhan
Below is some information from Saha-e-Satta for you
“‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old. ” —- http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/muslim/008.smt.html
“Narrated ‘Aisha:that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). ” —— http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/062.sbt.html
Narrated ‘Aisha:
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah’s Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for ‘Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13) ——-
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/073.sbt.html
@razakhan
Not according to MEMRI!
@Cogito-Ergo-Sum
wat is fateh-al-bari? I have read Quran extensively and have studied hadith, dolls are allowed in Islam yeh naya phadda now dolls haram for kids?
@@Cogito-Ergo-Sum
sorry my bad abt fateh-al-bari i.e shahi bukhari. man am still sleepy need some caffeine in me.
We can argue it was 6 or 9, who cares? Prophet did it so its right, but its not fard on us, so in today’s age it will not be proper.
but surely intergender doll playing is HARAM especially if the doll is namehrem!!! Astaghfirullah!
take that 3 year old out and flog her for adultery with Ken… that’ll teach her to play with a namehrem doll.
@Tauqeer Akbar
“LOL I dont have to add any thing.”
You missed the best part:
In November 2004, MEMRI threatened Middle East scholar Juan Cole (Univ. of Michigan) with a SLAPP lawsuit unless he retracted some of his claims.
Nature of the charges pace Cole:
Cole replies:
MEMRI is operated by a group closely associated with the Israeli intelligence organizations. Now, in an article in Haaretz, we find that the Israeli Army has sought to plant stories about “terrorism” in the press, and
This should raise a question or two about the reliability and veracity of the stories peddled by MEMRI.
Dear brother razakhan Salam un Alaik,
Q-1,I fail to understand what u trying to convey with this article. Is it that flogging and stonning are traditional and similar sentences for fornication and adultry, respectively?
Ans-Please read the article again. You will find the answer.
Q-2,Now back to ur article, i can go on but on one point where u have misinterpretated the ayah clearly is where u denotes zaniya means prostitute and zani the guys who use prostitutes.
Ans-Dear I translated the word from Arabic Dictionary.The word Zaniya means prostitute.The person who is involved in this Haram/Sin is Zani.I have also quoted the example of such Men and Women in the same article.Allah has not asked any witnesses for these people because they are recognised people.
Please answer my question straightly.
1-Does Allah ask in Sura Noor aya 2 four witnesses for 100 lashes to ZANI and ZANIYA ?
2-Does Allah says in Sura Noor Aya 3 to Sangsar/kill the Zania?
3-Does Allah says in whole Quran to Sangsar or Kill the Zani and Zaniya?
Salam un Alaik,
agrana75 said:
@Ayub
You clearly seem to be a person who does not believe on Sahih ahadith (Hadith rejector). But I am astonished , then how do you beleive in quran?
Answer:Please read the following aya and reframe your question on the article but not on my personality.
[49.12] O you who believe! avoid most of suspicion, for surely suspicion in some cases is a sin, and do not spy nor let some of you backbite others. Does one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? But you abhor it; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah, surely Allah is Oft-returning (to mercy), Merciful.
Thanks for understanding.
Ayub
@Ayub
see thats why u shouldn’t use dictionary to understand Quran, the whole law for zina has been advised over time by ALLAH swt so u can’t take individual ayah’;s and decide what dictionary says, one has to take all ayah’s and then make the law and then issue the hud. Hope u understand the concept now, by ur logic ALLAH says in quran, that if u find ur woman committing adultry/fornication u should beat them up and coonfine them to the house till ALLAH decide thier fate? Does its the law now or was it implement by prophet or sahaba, no that was the earlier order which was then revoked and comprehensive order and whole law was given to us. By ur logic i can drink alochol as long as I dun pray while intoxicated, as Quran states dun go near salat while ur intoxicateed but we all know that was the 2nd ayah regarding alochol till society was ready and then order came no more drinking.
The point is dun take the individual ayah translate and make them law, we have established law regarding adultry/fornication esatblished in Quran, precedent set by Prophet himself and by sahaba. We have a ijma on that and we have to follow that.
Those who have written passionately in connection with a controversial “hadith” relating to the alleged “marriage” of a six years old girl, might like to ponder Surah An-Nisaa, aayat 19, which begins with: “O you who have chosen to be graced with belief! It is not lawful for you to force women into marrying, or holding on to them in marriage, against their will”.
Can a six years old child be considered a ‘woman’ who is able to make a decision about her ‘husband’? Since the answer is obviously ‘no’, the “marriage” of a child of 6 is an unlawful forced marriage. As some contributors have pointed out, the little girl alleged to have been forced into such a marriage liked to play with dolls and preferred the company of girls of her age to that of the ‘husband’!
RASUL-ALLAH’S LIFE WAS THE LIVING QUR’AN. WOULD HE TRAMPLE THE QUR’ANIC AAYAAT UNDERFOOT?
Here we have an extreme example of a “sahih ahadith” story contradicting the Quraanic aayaat. You must accept one or the other, THERE IS NO WAY OUT. You are either a MUNKIR-E-QUR’AN or a MUNKIR-E-HADEES.
You will find many more contradictions in the six ahadith collections which are generally regarded as authentic by a lot of Muslims. But please, please read the WHOLE Qur’an in translation first.
Do you not see that vile stories like the Messenger of Allah marrying a girl of 6 were designed to cover up the monstrous deeds of perverts in positions of great influence? We should only accept those ahadees which are free of any element of contradiction with the Qur’anic injunctions. What is so mind boggling is the attitude of people who call themselves Muslim but who happily tolerate the humiliation and ridicule of Allah’s Last Messenger out of fear of offending their religious leaders.
fii amaan Allah.
@Aseer.
Can you quote any hadith, mentioning that ayesha was not happy over this marriage, or Muhammad(PBUH) forcibly married her ?
Can you tell me the exact age of a woman when she is able to make a decision about her husband? What is the criteria for a woman to make this decision?
We know that socities where women are given the freedom to choose their husbands and mostly women are married at the age of about 27, the divorce rate is very high. Here, In USA the divorce rate is 70%, even the girls spend lot of time with their bfs before marriage to know each other. This experiment continues with many guys and at the end when she marries some one it ends in divorce usually.
@Ayub:
This was not personal. But the conclusion after your following comments
“After the complete revelation of Quran there is no such practice can be done.How can it be possible while Allah has completed the revelation on Prophet pbuh and it does not consist any aya of Stone to Death.While it is clearly mentioned in Bible.”
So if someone doesnt believe in sahih hadith then it raises many questions. Quran cannot be interpretated Completely with out knowing the exaplantion told by muhammad(PBUH). Otherwise, every one would extract his own meanings.
I have asked fewquestions in one of my above comments , what happens if someone doesnt think that Sahih hadiths are important ..
I have read a lot about sects and the differences among them. I always wondered why people beleiving the same quran and messenger divided into sects. Truly speaking, there is no contradiction over the sahih hadiths. The problem is only in the blind following of Imams and scholars. We interpret the quran and other islamic matters in the light of our sect, Imam and not in the light of ahadiths. All sects beleive in the sahih ahadiths (talking about just sunni sects). But when some hadith contradicts our sect, we simply reject it and follow what Imam said.
Dear razakhan Salam un alaik: Brother you said:”see thats why u shouldn’t use dictionary to understand Quran, the whole law for zina has been advised over time by ALLAH swt so u can’t take individual ayah’;s and decide what dictionary says”
“Answer:-I have checked all the ayat in Quran then I translated this word from the dictionary.This word is mentioned in Quran three times and the translation is 100% correct in all the ayat.
Brother-e-mohtaram you did not answer my questions?
Please answer my question straightly.
1-Does Allah ask in Sura Noor aya 2 four witnesses for 100 lashes to ZANI and ZANIYA ?
2-Does Allah says in Sura Noor Aya 3 to Sangsar/kill the Zania?
3-Does Allah says in whole Quran to Sangsar or Kill the Zani and Zaniya?
@ayub
dude u not getting the point, dun take indvidual ayah’s duhh wats so hard to understand.
R u a mufti? r u an islamic scholor, u r trying to post ur view that has not been advised by any one of a learned scholor of Islam and worst u r doing it by nitpicking ayah I gave u an example
dun go near salat if ur intoxicatd – Alquran
so this means i cna drink?
@Aseer & @Ayub:
Let me quote you two verses:
Donot go to a mosque(for prayers) intoxicated or after having touched a woman…4:43
Intoxicants (wine and spirit) and gambling are Satan’s handiwork, avoid them…5:90
These are two quranic verses regarding consumption of wine. In one verse, Allah is just forbidding wine when go for prayers but in the second verse Allah is forbidding wine completely by saying it a satan’s handiwork . Now without consulting Sahih ahadiths, can you explain why there is a contradiction in the verses.
Brother agrana75: maybe Allah has created you to test my patience! Brother what exactly is bothering you? The two aayahs you refer to are consistent and free of contradictions. Let us look at them:
An-Nisaa (4:43)
O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! Join not the Salaat congregation if your mind is beclouded for any reason, until you understand what you utter, else you might say senseless words that disturb the assembly. Physical cleanliness contributes to moral purity. So, take a bath after ceremonial impurity (postcoital state) If you are traveling, or are ill, or coming from the privy, and cannot find water, take a little clean sand or earth and lightly rub your faces and hands, before entering the Masjid.
Al-Maaedah (5:90)
O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! Intoxicants and gambling and games of chance, sacrificing animals on stones (altars of idols) and forecasting the future by such means as arrows, raffles and omens (all) is an immoral handiwork of Satan. Refrain from it that you may prosper.
The first aayah above applies quite generally and it includes all sorts of situations which can affect a person’s presence of mind. For example, it would include the case of a husband who whiles away the hours of the night making love to his wife; when the muazzan calls out in the morning the sleeping man may find himself quite drunk with sleep, having slept only briefly. He shouldn’t just jump out of bed and stagger sleepily into the mosque!
Dee mu’azzan ne shab-e-vasl azaaN pichhli raat
Haaye kumbakht ko kis vaqt Khuda yaad aaya!
The second aayah is specifically about intoxicants AND several other vices (gambling, blood sacrifices, etc.).
What is your problem, brother?
Fii amaan Allah.
@Aseer:
I cannot control my laughs after reading your interpretation of these two verses, especially the first one.
In arabic , the word “sukara” is used for the intoxicated , drunken etc and you just twisted it to your own meanings and applied it as a general rule. Let’s suppose , your interpretation is correct. So it emplies , whenever someone feel sleepy, he shouldnt offer prayer. Either it is morning or afternoon or any other prayer. Drunkeness and sleepiness are quite two different states. And you just mingle up both of these. Let me expalin it in the light of sahih hadiths.
There are many matters found in quran , which initially were not prohibited or banned completely initially but later on they were banned ( called abroagtion). Intoxication is one of them.
4:43 verse was revealed before the prohibition of the alcohal completely :
Once Ali(RA) and other sahaba were invited at a place where they were offered food and alocohal. At prayer time , people asked Ali(RA) to lead prayer. He recited Surah Al-kafroon wronlgy. Upon this mistake , this verse was revealed.. ( Sahih tarmizi, 3026, ibn dawood, tafsir ibnekasir etc)
5:90 In this verse the alcohal was completely banned.
Quranic interpretation, without sahih hadiths often lead to a wrong path you should also
be careful , in interpretation of Quran.. you were trying to make a new rule that if you are sleepy dont go to the mosque…(funniest thing i ever heard)
The stoned death is a lso one of those orders which were later on explained by sunnah. this is now Islamic rule that any unmarried person commiting adultery will be punished 100 lashes and the married people will get stoned death.
I am stonished what do you do in the mosque when you dont beleive in the sahih hadith , how do you offer prayer there? there is no quranic verse explaining the method of salat..
My point of all this discussion is that,
1- You are trying to enforce the meaning of “zani” and “zania” as who are professional prostitutes or who commit it time and again. For rest of the people who commit adultery, there is no punishment…lolz ..after how many times one committing adultery will be called professional or “habitual” criminal and then he deserves for 100 lashes?
2- How do you interpret Allah orders of cutting hand of the theif in Quran (5:38). If this points to the theif who is habitual of theft or any one who steal even first time?
Dear razakhan/agrana75 Salam un Alaikum,
Please answer my question straightly.
1-Does Allah ask in Sura Noor aya 2 four witnesses for 100 lashes to ZANI and ZANIYA ?
2-Does Allah says in Sura Noor Aya 3 to Sangsar/kill the Zania?
3-Does Allah says in whole Quran to Sangsar or Kill the Zani and Zaniya?
The answers of all your queries would be clarified in above questions.
——————————————————————–
Brother you are debating with me about the explaination of Quran through Sahih Hadith.But you are not quoting any single Hadith which was taught by Prophet PBUH to SAHABA KARAM in the expalination of Sura Noor 24 aya 2 and 3.
Please quote such Hadith which was specifically addressing the ayat because The duty of Prophet Mohammad was to RECITE AND EXPLAIN EACH AND EVERY WORD OF THE AYAT OF ALLAH.
Please try to find out those Sahih Hadith.You have not quoted any Hadith which expalins the quoted ayat in the article.
Do you say the following Hadith is explaining the word ZANIYA AND ZANI?
Kindly analyze the following:
Malik :: Book 41 : Hadith 41.1.6
Malik related to me from ….One of them said, “Messenger of Allah! Judge between us by the Book of Allah!” The other said, and he was the wiser of the two, “Yes, Messenger of Allah. Judge between us by the Book of Allah …….., I will judge between you by the Book of Allah. ……” He ordered Unays al-Aslami to go to the wife of the other man and to stone her if she confessed . She confessed and he stoned her.
Analysis:-1-“Messenger of Allah! Judge between us by the Book of Allah!”
2-”I will judge between you by the Book of Allah.”
Brother-e-Mohtaram: How it is possible that Rasool pbuh said “I will judge between you by the Book of Allah.” The Book of Allah does not contain any aya for Stone To Death.
Please analyse every thing which you are quoting and forcing us to believe.
@ayub
sorry no point talking to u, so carry on as u dun have either the intellect or basic understanding of Islam once again I urge u to get a tafseer and read it. I can recommed, tafseer ibn-e-kaseer, tafheem-ul-quran or dr. Israr ahmed
Dear razakhan/agrana75 Salam un Alaikum,
Masha Allah Allah has revealed the truth in the following ayat.In all time people are stuck with there forefathers concepts and beliefs.
But you can judge any Hadith(concepts and beliefs) through the ayat as Sahih Hadith. Quran is the FURQAN/CRITERIA to judge between SAHIH and Non SAHIH Hadith.
[27.92] And that I should recite the Quran. Therefore whoever goes aright, he goes aright for his own soul, and whoever goes ‘ astray, then say: I am only one of the warners.
[2.170] And when it is said to them, Follow what Allah has revealed, they say: Nay! we follow what we found our fathers upon. What! and though their fathers had no sense at all, nor did they follow the right way.
Dear razakhan Salam un Alaik,
There are two choices for us 1-Momineen and 2- Zalimeen.
[17.82] And We reveal fromthe Quran that which is a healing and a mercy to the Momineen, and it adds only loss to Zalimeen.
The Definition of Zalimeen:-
[18.57] And who is more ZALIM than he who is reminded the Ayat of his RUBB, then he turns away from them and forgets what his two hands have sent before? Surely We have placed veils over their hearts lest they should understand it and a heaviness in their ears; and if you call them to the guidance, they will not ever follow the right course in that case.
@ayub
u not the 1st nor will be last who insist on not counting hadith and nitpicking ayats, greater minds b4 u have tried and failed so carry on
aey nabi tumharee jaan ki qasam yeh os waqt tak musalman nahi bun saktey jab tak jis cheez se tum inhain rukoo yeh ruk na jain aur jiz cheez ki tum inhain ijazat do yeh kar na lain. – Al-quran
I suggest u read Sunnat ki aaini haisiyaat by maulana maududi to open ur mind.
I 1st thought u had made honest mistake, now i see what u trying to propagate and I feel pity for u. I can quote from quran to u abt the ppl who twist the word of God but it will be useless may ALLAH grant u hidayat.
Anyhoo since u neither a scholor not a learned man this debate is over. U have misinterpretated quran and twisted it and that btween u n ALLAH and anyone who got misguided by ur interpretation, u would have to be answerable 4 that too.
@Admin pkpolitics
Dear sir, I urge u to remove this article as it misguides, misinterpretates intently the ayah of Quran and the hudood law. Anyone who gets misguided u will be as answerable to ALLAH as the author as ur website is propagating that. If u have any doubt abt my claim plz read hudood law as explained in numerous articles if u need references am willing to provide.
WA ATEE ULLAHA WA ATEEUR RASSUL – Obey ALLAH n obey Prophet
Its ijma of muslims that QURAN AND hadith makes up sharia.
A muslim brotherly advise.
@ayub & @Aseer and for all the Hadith rejectors
We sent no Messenger, but to be obeyed by Allah’s Leave. (Quran 4:64)
But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad ) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission. (Quran 4:65)
And whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger (PBUH) he has indeed achieved a great achievement (i.e. he will be saved from the Hell-fire and made to enter Paradise). (Quran 33:71)
Now i have few question to all of you.
If obeying (ittebah) of Muhammad is not mandatory for us then why Allah again n again insisting on it?
Why didnt he just said ” obey my orders given in Quran” ?
Why did Allah Revealed quran in 23 years through messengers?
why didnt he just put the quran in book format in front of people and asked them to follow.. ?
what is the purpose of a messenger?
Now some Ahadith regarding the current issue.
Narrated Zaid bin Khalid al—Juhani: I heard the Prophet ordering that an unmarried person guilty of sexual intercourse be flogged one hundred stripes and be exiled for one year. (Bukhari 8:6831; see also 8:6833)
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah al—Ansari: A man from the tribe of Bani Aslam came to Allah’s Messenger [Muhammad] and informed him that he had committed illegal sexual intercourse; and he bore witness four times against himself. Allah’s Messenger ordered him to be stoned to death as he was a married person (Bukhari 8:6814; see also 8:6825; 8:6829)
A woman came to the Prophet and asked for purification by seeking punishment. He told her to go away and seek God’s forgiveness. She persisted four times and admitted she was pregnant. He told her to wait until she had given birth. Then he said that the Muslim community should wait until she had weaned her child. When the day arrived for the child to take solid food, Muhammad handed the child over to the community.
And when he had given command over her and she was put in a hole up to her breast, he ordered the people to stone her. Khalid b. al—Walid came forward with a stone which he threw at her head, and when the blood spurted on his face he cursed her . . . (Muslim no. 4206)
@ayub
In your article you presented the Quranic verses without quoting their backgrounds, interpreted with your own meanings saying that this punishment is for prostitutes and this is for non prostitutes..
Now regarding your question:
1-Does Allah ask in Sura Noor aya 2 four witnesses for 100 lashes to ZANI and ZANIYA ?
A).If you read this ayat with reference to ahadith, you will get you answer.
2-Does Allah says in Sura Noor Aya 3 to Sangsar/kill the Zania?
A). Again read the prophet sayings and his actions after revealation of this verse.
3-Does Allah says in whole Quran to Sangsar or Kill the Zani and Zaniya?
A).Yes, Allah says ; they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad ) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission. (Quran 4:65)
Now , If you dont beleive in Ahadith then I have few questions..
1- Azan is mentioned in the Quran but no method is described, how one should do it?
2- You failed to answer my question that how you perform salat , when there is no method given in the quran?
3- How you will pay zakat, what should be the rate?
4- How do you will perform Hajj?
5- How do you observe fasting?
Brother, What is your problem , in following Muhammad(PBUH)?
May Allah save us from all the fitnas of rejecting Sahih ahadith and guide us to follow the true Islam.
Assalam-o-Alaikum,
You are worried about Taliban flogging the girl? You think the Americans who are running this propaganda are righteous?
Check what Americans do with their women;
Video Title: Fully Nude Strip Search by Cops: Male Police Stripping Woman Completely Naked
HarisKhan
Salam un Alaik Dear agrana75:-
Your reaction against me is not justified.
Kindly do not flood in the room I am answering all your queiries related to the article only.You did not quote any Hadith related to my article where I have translated the word Zaniya.
I have already told you . Quran is the FURQAN/CRITERIA to judge between SAHIH and Non SAHIH Hadith.”
Do you accept this criteria?I accept Sahih Hadith.
—————————————————————————
1-Does Allah ask in Sura Noor aya 2 four witnesses for 100 lashes to ZANI and ZANIYA ?
A).If you read this ayat with reference to ahadith, you will get you answer.
PLEASE QUOTE THE HADITH WHICH YOU ARE REFFERING TO READ.
—————————————————————————–
Brother you are debating with me about the explaination of Quran through Sahih Hadith.But you are not quoting any single Hadith which was taught by Prophet PBUH to SAHABA KARAM in the expalination of Sura Noor 24 aya 2 and 3.
Please quote such Hadith which was specifically addressing the ayat because The duty of Prophet Mohammad was to RECITE AND EXPLAIN EACH AND EVERY WORD OF THE AYAT OF ALLAH.
You have not quoted any Hadith which expalins the quoted ayat in the article.
—————————————————————————–
Analysis:-1-“Messenger of Allah! Judge between us by the Book of Allah!”
2-”I will judge between you by the Book of Allah.”
Brother-e-Mohtaram: How it is possible that Rasool pbuh said “I will judge between you by the Book of Allah.”
The Book of Allah does not contain any aya for Stone To Death.
—————————————————————————-
Please do not try to be extremist but discuss intlectually. There is a need to research the concepts of SECTS taught in the name of Islam.Do not be angry.The ATTITUDE is the key to understand the research work of a common muslim.
Allah says: Sura 47-24 “Do they not ponder on Quran or the hearts are LOCKED up.”
@agrana75
thanks for greta work but summun bukmun umyun wala mamla hai yahan,
Again Salam un Alaik wa rehamat ullahe wa barakatuhu:-
“agrana75 said
Brother, What is your problem , in following Muhammad(PBUH)?
May Allah save us from all the fitnas of rejecting Sahih ahadith and guide us to follow the true Islam.”
If I will follow BIBLE then you will accept me the follower of Prophet Mohammad.Its amazing.
I follow Quran and Sunnah that is why you are calling me FITNA.
Prophet Mohammad is saying as:-
Sura 27 Aya 91- And that I should recite the Quran. whoever recieve GUIDENCE, so he recieved GUIDENCE for his own soul, and whoever goes ‘ astray, then say: I am only one of the warners.
IF YOU FOLLOW THE MESSENGER THEN YOU WILL FOLLOW ALLAH BECAUSE MESSENGER IS RECITING QURAN FOR THE GUIDENCE OF MANKIND.
I am following Rasool PBUH Masha Allah.I also invite you to follow please.
“razakhan said:
summun bukmun umyun wala mamla hai yahan”
Dear brother I would like to present this aya in front of your EYES (to read),EAR (to listen)and TONGUE (to talk).
[2.2] That is The Book, (Al-Kitab) there is no doubt in it,guidance to those who guard (against evil).
Now brother this is your test to READ/TALK/LISTEN the Book of Allah and believe that there is no book which is a guidence for MUTAQEEN.And also there is no book which is doubt free.If you think against then read as:-
“summun bukmun umyun wala mamla hai yahan”
[2.18] Deaf, dumb (and) blind, so they will not turn back.
razakhan/ agrana75:
Dear Brother you are supposed to follow the SUNNAH mentioned in following aya:-
[Quran,al-An`am 6:54] When those come to you(Prophet) who believe with Our Ayat/signs,So say: “Peace be on you”(Salam un alaikum):
(Qur’an, An-Nisa 4:86) “And when you are greeted with a greeting, greet in return with what is better than it, or (at least) return it equally.”
My greeting in the end is to you all SALAM UN ALAIKUM WA REHMAT ULLAHE WA BRAKATUHU.
Now you have to return greeting more than this.
Ayub
@Ayub
Wa Atee Ullaha Wa Atee urrasul
yeh bhi yaad rakhoo, without Nabi itaat there is not emaan.
razakhan
Prophet Mohammad is saying as:-
Sura 27 Aya 91- And that I should recite the Quran. whoever recieve GUIDENCE, so he recieved GUIDENCE for his own soul, and whoever goes ‘ astray, then say: I am only one of the warners.
IF YOU FOLLOW THE MESSENGER THEN YOU WILL FOLLOW ALLAH BECAUSE MESSENGER IS RECITING QURAN FOR THE GUIDENCE OF MANKIND.
Brother Ayub: Judging from the patience – sabar-e-Ayub – you have shown here your name is very apt indeed!
Pakistan – and most ‘Muslim countries’ – are, in practice, not Islamic at all. An unjust, corrupt and oppressive society is essentially the antithesis of Deen-e-Islam, a Way of Life as explained in the Qur’an. Most Pakistanis follow Islam only as a religion – mazhab – which is dominated by a bewildering collection of rites and rituals put together, not by Allah and not by his Last Messenger, but by self-styled ‘imams’ and ‘maulanas’.
In Al-Quran we are told to follow and obey Muhammad Rasul-Allah, Rehmatul-lil-aalameen but people perversely follow others and they pathetically justify their hypocritical behaviour by attributing false stories to Allah’s Messenger. They may end up – as you have pointed out – obeying the Bible but they will most certainly be disobeying Allah’s Rasul who told his followers to hold fast to the Book of Allah. I have previously quoted from the Qur’an where people are told not to look for a hadith outside the Qur’an
In an earlier post I gave an extreme example of a contradiction between a false story related to Rasul-Allah and an aayat in the Qur’an but the response I got from a munkir-e-Qur’an was: show that the child bride of 6 years was unhappy with her marriage! Is it possible for a person to so completely lose his sense of morals and fail to see that the Quraanic aayat was concerned with the prospective bride having the mental and physical maturity to make a decision about her husband.
This gentleman – agrana75 – has been arguing just for the sake of argument, taking great liberties with the Qur’anic aayaat. He seems quite unable to see the guidance that is contained in an aayat, and which is to form a part of the Deen that we follow in practice.
Thus, for example, the aayat (4:43) is concerned with mental and physical cleanliness IN CONGREGATIONAL PRAYERS and offers appropriate guidance. The mind must be clear and alert and the body must be clean (requiring a thorough wash after sexual union). I tried my hand at humour with the gentleman but it was probably a waste of time.
The other aayat (5:90) is not about the congregational prayers at all. This lays down various rules for us to follow in our lives.
Argumentative people get themselves into a tangle by trying to relate Qur’anic verses to “ahadith” and miss the Message that stares them in the face!
Al-Quran is CLEAR GUIDANCE for us to follow in life. That is why it is essential to read the Qur’an in translation. In fact, Al-Quran has made it a duty for each Muslim to ponder over the verses of the Qur’an and not to accept things thoughtlessly. I wonder if agrana75 will care to do a bit of investigative work and discover where this requirement is mentioned in the Qur’an?
fii amaan Allah.
@admin
I fully agree with razakhan that this article should be removed as it is clearly against the teahings of Islam. This article is totally misguiding the people. The author tried to enforce his own interpretation ignoring all the sahih ahadiths and continous practice of Ummat (Ijma) through out the history. The first ones who rejected the prophet orders were Kharjee and these days these hadith rejectors are working in the name of parvaizee , ghamdee etc.
@ayub
Sura Noor 24 aya 2 and 3 :
Sahih Muslim Book 017, Number 4191:
‘Ubada b. as-Samit reported: Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Receive (teaching) from me, receive (teaching) from me. Allah has ordained a way for those (women). When an unmarried male commits adultery with an unmarried female (they should receive) one hundred lashes and banishment for one year. And in case of married male committing adultery with a married female, they shall receive one hundred lashes and be stoned to death.
@ayub and @Aseer :
And the people like you it was laready predicted:
Saheeh Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Number 816:
Narrated Ibn ‘Abbas:
‘Umar said, “I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, “We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book,” and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he is already married and the crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession.” Sufyan added, “I have memorized this narration in this way.” ‘Umar added, “Surely Allah’s Apostle carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him.”
@Ayub and @Aseer
Sunnat-e-nabvi is the part of the Sharia..Quran is the complete guidance and explanation by Prohpet (PBUH) is the essential part of quran.
I again repeat my questions for the last time, if you fail to answer , it means you are just creating fitna:
1- How do you offer salat according to Quran? How many Rakkats, what time , what should be recited? What is the difference between an individual prayer and congregational prayer.? How do you offer janazah prayer? How do you offer Eid prayer?
2- How we should offer Hajj, according to Quran?
3- How should muslims call Azan?
4- How one should observe fasting?
Brother agrana75: It is now quite clear from the large number of posts you have contributed that you have acquired your knowledge of Islam from books on Islam written by various people. Please, brother, read the WHOLE Qur’an in translation which will open up a world of knowledge of which you are unaware.
You were asked a very simple question about your knowledge of the Qur’an which you have been unable to answer. As you continue your search, please now pay attention to the following aayaat from the Qur’an:
(2:242): Thus, Allah makes His revelations clear for you. Now, it is up to you to use your intellect.
(8:22): The worst of creations in the sight of Allah are the deaf and the dumb, those who do not use their intellect.
(25:30): And the Messenger will say, “O My Lord! These are my people, the ones who had disabled this Qur’an making it of no account.”
[Mahjoor = Disabled = Abandoned = Neglected. They had immobilized it like villagers who bind a cow by tying her front foot to her horn]
(31:6) But among people, there are those who invest their time in Hadith which is unfounded, so as to lead those without knowledge away from the Path of God, making mockery of it (the Qur’an). For such there is shameful punishment in store.
[In order to defend the ‘Imams’ of Hadith, some commentators try to explain away Lahwal Hadith as music. This obviously makes no linguistic or contextual sense]
(31:7) Whenever Our verses are conveyed to such a purchaser of Hadith, he turns away in arrogance as if he never heard them – as if there were deafness in his ears. So give him the tidings of a painful doom.
(45:6): These are the verses of God We convey to you with Truth. Then, in what HADITH, if not in God and His verses, will they believe?
6:115): Perfected is the word of your Lord in truth and justice. None can change His words and His laws. This announcement comes to you from the profound Hearer, the Knower.
As for ‘sahih ahadees’, no hadees can be regarded as ‘sahih’ which contradicts any part of the Qur’an. This is the primary criterion of whether or not a hadees can be accepted as valid. All other criteria are subservient to this fundamental rule irrespective of whichever collection the hadees comes from.
Let us now end this fruitless discussion. I will just say this about brother Ayub’s post: I do not know if his interpretation is right or wrong but he is entitled to follow the Qur’anic injunction to ponder over Allah’s Message for himself. If I had been a legislator I would have read Ayub Khan’s post critically and offered my sincere conclusions for further discussion. Since I am not a legislator the subject that brother Ayub raises is only of theoretical interest, especially as today’s Pakistani society bears little resemblance to the Islam presented in the Qur’an.
I hope brother agrana75 that you will now stop your unseemly attacks. You do not seem to realize that your religious zeal has taken you so close to rejecting the Message of the Qur’an.
May we all receive Allah’s Hidayat, Rehmat and Barkat in our lives.
fii amaan Allah.
@Aseer:
I asked very simple questions. But you started criticizing Hadith e Rasool. Where ever you find word “Hadith” in Quran , you just referred it to Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) actions and sayings. Can you show me any verse where, Allah says that dont follow Muhammad(PBUH) and just follow words given in quran.?
Where ever I quoted number of verses regarding obeying the Muhammad(PBUH) like
Who so ever obeys Allah and His Messenger (PBUH) he has indeed achieved a great achievement (i.e. he will be saved from the Hell-fire and made to enter Paradise). (Quran 33:71)
“And We have sent down unto You the Message so that you may explain clearly to men what is sent for them.” [An-Nahal, 16:44].
“Allah did confer a great favor on the Believers when He sent among them a Messenger from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs (Verses) of Allah, purifying them, instructing them in Scripture, and teaching them Wisdom. While before that they were in manifest error.” [A'ale Imran 3:164].
Now how you will obey Muhammad? By rejecting his orders and considering yourself to be more intellectual , will you invent your own ways of offering Salat, fasting, performing hajj etc?
Do you think , Muhammad (PBUH) did all the things at his own and now we are not bound to follow his orders?
How you are sure that this quran is authentic? After all this quran was revealed through Prophet and Sahaba believed his hadith, copy the verses what ever he said. and later on sahaba compiled it .
In one comments above you quoted that he made sure Allah’s complete Message was committed to writing (using animal skins and other materials), how you come to know that he made sure and how do you know they used animal skins and other materials? Quran doesnt mention that in how many years its revelation was completed but you said it was in 22 years . No where it is mentioned in Quran that People wrote quran on animal skins etc.
There is no contradiction in the Prophet sayings and the quranic verses but only in your mind. Sahih ahadith just explains the quranic verses as said in the [An-Nahal, 16:44]. So quran and prophet sayings are mandatory to each other. Quran has elaborated it many times but if you dont want to ponder those verses, its your fate.
Love for prophet is mentioned in many times.. how you will love him? if by following his sunnah or inventing your own ways? If his sunnah then how you will come to know his sunnah?
You failed to answer my questions that how you will perform basic islamic virtues like Salat, Hajj, Zakat, fastings when no clear method of all these are given in quran.
How you will take “gusl-e-farz”.. if it is mandatory to remove armpit hairs, pubic hairs or not, if it is when, Quran just mentions “taharah” , how you will explain it ?
Will you do circumcision of your child, if so why, when Quran doesnt impose such things?
I know you dont have answer to these question, so this debate is over .
Salam un alaik agrana75
Kindly read my article and I have already quoted the Bible but now compare your quoted Riwayat which was written after 240 years of Prophet Mohammad which exactly in the light of BIBLE.
Leviticus 20:10
10 ” ‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
Deuteronomy 22:24
24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
The source of Stone to Death is the Bible not the Quran which was recited by Prophet Mohammad pbuh.
My humble request is that analyse the Riwayaat in the light of Quran.
Salam un Alaik Brother Aseer
YOU WROTE:
“I will just say this about brother Ayub’s post: I do not know if his interpretation is right or wrong but he is entitled to follow the Qur’anic injunction to ponder over Allah’s Message for himself. If I had been a legislator I would have read Ayub Khan’s post critically and offered my sincere conclusions for further discussion.”
If you have some time please read my article.
Again Salam un Alaik wa rehamat ullahe wa barakatuhu:-
agrana75 said:
@Ayub and @Aseer
Sunnat-e-nabvi is the part of the Sharia..Quran is the complete guidance and explanation by Prohpet (PBUH) is the essential part of quran.
Dear,
If I will follow BIBLE then you will accept me the follower of Prophet Mohammad.Its amazing.
I follow Quran and Sunnah that is why you are calling me FITNA.
Prophet Mohammad is saying as:-
Sura 27 Aya 91- And that I should recite the Quran. whoever recieve GUIDENCE, so he recieved GUIDENCE for his own soul, and whoever goes ‘ astray, then say: I am only one of the warners.
IF YOU FOLLOW THE MESSENGER THEN YOU WILL FOLLOW ALLAH BECAUSE MESSENGER IS RECITING QURAN FOR THE GUIDENCE OF MANKIND.
I am following Rasool PBUH Masha Allah.I also invite you to follow please.
“Aseer said:
Brother Ayub: Judging from the patience – sabar-e-Ayub – you have shown here your name is very apt indeed! ”
Thanks for complement.This is the Sunnah of the Prophet.
Dear Brother Allah says:
[3.186] You shall certainly be tried respecting your wealth and your souls, and you shall certainly hear from those who have been given the Book before you and from those who are polytheists MUCH ANNOYING TALK; and if you are PATIENT and guard (against evil), surely this is one of the affairs (which should be) determined upon.
Dear Aseer kindly read this aya in the Quran in arabic then you will find the true essence of PATIENCE.
Assalamualikum Wr. Wb.
@Ayub/@Aseer
Before I give my detailed response to your article, I have some side Questions:
1-What are your beliefs about Jihad, when does it become obligatory on muslims?
2-Is it Physical(Qital), if not, what is it?
3-What actions to take against Munafiqeen/Kufar according to Quran?
4-What should be done with people, who take Kufar as their helpers/friends?
5-Last but not least, What do you guys think of all the 90% people who are not adherent to your mindset- meaning they subscribe to Quran+Sahih Hadith of the Prophet (PBUH), instead of just Quran for learning and practicing of Islam ???
I would really appreciate, if you can answer my above questions. I have seen in the past, you guys just answer to the questions which you guys choose to answer and avoid all other valid questions. This time, i am expecting answers to all the above questions from you, If you may.
Jazakumullahu Khairan
@Ayub & @Aseer
You both are just beating about the bushes.. agrana75 and other guys asked you very simple and straight forward questions but you failed to answer those..
Originally the bible was also Allah’s Book, though chiristians have changed it lot but if something found in bible is also part of islamic shariah, it doesnt mean we should reject it . Do you have any proof that muslims adopted stoned to death issue through bible. There are number of similarities between quran and Bible, does it mean Muslims added them after inspiring from Bible?
Read the quran for whole Sabr-e-ayub ..I couldnt understand , what type of “sabr” you are observing here?. what is the similarity b/w your sabr and the messenger Ayub?
”
“Aseer said:
Brother Ayub: Judging from the patience – sabar-e-Ayub – you have shown here your name is very apt indeed! ”
Thanks for complement.This is the Sunnah of the Prophet. ”
So you finally admitted sunnah of the prophet? I wonder on one side you dont beleive on sunnah and on other side you are quoting Sunnah of the prophet.
@ayub @aseer
Why you people , are keeping names like muslims, I cannot find any verse where allah asked to keep such names.. why dont you name you and your children like David, michael, Julie etc. Can you quote any verse where you find some direction to keep names?
Dear Salam un Alaik,
“ghayoor said:
Originally the bible was also Allah’s Book, though chiristians have changed it lot but if something found in bible is also part of islamic shariah, it doesnt mean we should reject it . Do you have any proof that muslims adopted stoned to death issue through bible. There are number of similarities between quran and Bible, does it mean Muslims added them after inspiring from Bible?”
Dear brother thank you very much for accepting that you believe and follow Bible in the name of Islamic Shariah, you read all above discussion you will not find any person boldly accepted as you accepted.
Now you read my article and you wil; find exactly which I have pointed out that STONE TO DEATH is a Biblical Law not the Quranic Law.
You also said:
“chiristians have changed it lot but if something found in bible is also part of islamic shariah,”
1-Do you agree that the Quran is the Furqan to judge between “The word of Allah” and “The word of human being”mentioned in any book claimed as the Book of Allah?
2-Do you have any research work on that portion of BIBLE which you believe as still unchanged in The BIBLE?
3- Do you think that Quran is incomplete and can not be understood with out the help of BIBLE.
Because this is the faith of Jews and Chiristians that Quran can not be understood without the help of BIBLE.
Regarding the Sunnah you commented “So you finally admitted sunnah of the prophet? I wonder on one side you dont beleive on sunnah and on other side you are quoting Sunnah of the prophet.”
Dear brother this is your allegation.Please read the above discussion to clarify your doubt about the Sunnah.
ghayoor said:
@ayub @aseer
Why you people , are keeping names like muslims, I cannot find any verse where allah asked to keep such names.. why dont you name you and your children like David, michael, Julie etc. Can you quote any verse where you find some direction to keep names?
Dear brother for above comments.I will only say “SALAM UN ALAIKUM WA REHMAT ULLAHE WA BARAKATUHU”.May Allah send on you and your family PEACE AND MERCY FROM HIS BOUNTY by forgiving you on the comment”I cannot find any verse where allah asked to keep such names.”
[17.82] And We reveal from the Quran that which is a healing and a mercy to the Momineen, and it adds only loss to Zalimeen.
Note:-There are two choices for us 1-Mercy and 2- Loss.
If you want to search guidence for the NAMES, Insha Allah Allah will guide you.
Dear brother Salam un Alaik,
“anti_democratic said: Before I give my detailed response to your article, I have some side Questions:”
1-(a)What are your beliefs about Jihad,
(b) when does it become obligatory on muslims?
2-Is it Physical(Qital), if not, what is it?
3-What actions to take against Munafiqeen/Kufar according to Quran?
4-What should be done with people, who take Kufar as their helpers/friends?
5-Last but not least, What do you guys think of all the 90% people who are not adherent to your mindset- meaning they subscribe to Quran+Sahih Hadith of the Prophet (PBUH), instead of just Quran for learning and practicing of Islam ???
I would really appreciate, if you can answer my above questions.”
———————————————————————————
Dear brother I am giving you answers but you have to do your home work from the Quran to contradict the answers intlectually not emotionally.You will have to demonstrate the patience to understand the answer one by one.
The answers would be the test of SABAR.
Answrs-1(a)[Sura Furqan 25-52] So do not follow the Kafreen, and JIHAD against them a JIHAD-un-KABEERA with it(QURAN).
Analysis:”JIHAD-un-KABEERA with it(QURAN).”
Allah has not mentioned in the AYA with the Quran but with the SWORD is not mentioned in the aya. I would also clarify you that the word SWORD ( in arabic SAIF) is not mentioned in any aya in the Quran. But the amazing thing is that in the BIBLE it is mentioned in 404 verses.Read as follows the religion of Jews and Chistians just three examples out of 404.
# Exodus 32:27
And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.
# Genesis 31:26
And Laban said to JACOB, What hast thou done, that thou hast stolen away unawares to me, and carried away my daughters, as captives taken with the SWORD?
# Genesis 34:25
And it came to pass on the third day, when they were sore, that two of the sons of Jacob, Simeon and Levi, Dinah’s brethren, took each man his SWORD, and came upon the city boldly, and slew all the males.
Please comment on first answer of your question part (a).
Thanks
correction:-Allah has mentioned in the AYA with the Quran but with the SWORD is not mentioned in the aya.
@Ayub:
You should fear Allah, what are you talking about Jihad ? Are you mad ? Are you in your senses, or you are doing all this deliberately?
You first failed to my answers regarding, how you will perfrom basic virtues and now you just refuted one of the fundamental shariah law ” Jihad bil Qattal”….dont you believe all the quranic verses in Surah Al, ahzab, Al-nifal, Surah Tubah etc .. do you refute all the wars fought by Muhammad, Sahaba and other muslims against the Kufr?
If you are right in thinking that there is no jihad bil qattal in islam then do you think all those muslims did “kufr” including Muhammad and his sahaba, who killed many non mulsim soldiers in wars ?
Do you think your understanding about Quran is better than Muhammad and his sahaba?
[Sura Furqan 25-52] : This verse was revealed in Makkah when still Jihad bil Qattal was not allowed.. and you just twisted it to your own Jewish meaning, forgetting all other hundreds of verses on Jahad and Qattal..
Now go and read QURAN, I am just quoting few references :
[3:13]–”tuqatelu fee sabeelillah” .
[3:121-127], [3:140-145],[3:152-155][3:165-175][9:123] ..”Qatelu …”
Read the Surah Al Anfal, Al Ahzab, AtToba to get the true meaning of Jahad…
Do you know, What is meaning of “Anfal”?
Do you know the reason, why there is no Bismillah before Surah Tobah?
Learn Arabic first and then read the Quran instead of the translation by some “Pervaizee (Hadith rejector)” ..
The references you quoted from bible have nothing to do with order of fight with sword.Instead all the above are just telling some stories about the past and you just interpreted it as Jhahd bil saif is actually order of Bible and not Quran…Lolz, Wat a funny arguement you gave.
your argument is just like the argument of Christians who say that word Eisa in Quran more number of times than Muhammad , so Christianity is true..
Where as every one knows that there is no concept of Holy war in Christianity but only in Jewish and Islam.
Islamic holy war is not limited to be fought by “saif” only but by every possible means thats why there is no specific word described in Quran.
Assalamualikum Wr. Wb.
@Ayub
Answer to response 1-a
Brother — if you ask me emotionally, I would say I cried on your answer- that people who have no knowledge and understanding of Quran are writing articles to misguide muslimeen around the world.
Intellectually, I think, you are more expert on Bible than Quran. Even your knowledge is more on what and where things are discussed in Bible. You mentioned, (Al-furqan 25-52): let me paste Arabic of this Ayah:
You show me the word Quran in whole Ayah??? Where did you get the sense, it is talking about “with the Quran” here?
Secondly, I would ask you to paste me some Ayahs from Surah Bakara, Surah Al-e-Imran, Surah Nisa — why are you ignoring Ayah from there —
Again, I am still expecting your answers on my other questions —
Assalamualikum wr. wb.
Jazakumullahu Khairan — agrana75
Finally, I have questions to all of Hadith Rejectors (Pervaizee and other Munkareen-e-hadith);
1- Do you think all the dozens of Sahih ahadith regarding Stoned to death in Muhammad(PBUH) life and then Sahaba lives and then through out the muslim history are unathentic and self created?
2- Are you 100% sure Muhammad(PBUH) never asked for this punishment to any adulterer?
3- What is the meaning of “Ate-ullah ha wa ate-ur-rasool” in Quran? Why not just Ate-ul-llah ha? Is there any difference between Ate-ullah and ate-ur-rasool”?
4- What is the purpose of a Prophet(Messenger), if following the Quran was enough?
5-“And We have sent down unto You the Message so that you may explain clearly to men what is sent for them.” [An-Nahal, 16:44]…Why messenger is required to explain the verses? if it is really, then how can today we will get that explanation?
6- Why did Allah revealed Quran by a messenger to the people and why in 23 years? why not just revealed the whole book in one instance and asked people to follow it, this is enough and complete book for you, no need for any explanation?
7-If I say Quran was revealed in one day and all the people who say it was revealed in 23 years are telling lie, what is your counter argument?
Dear brother anti_democratic Salama.
Dear do you know brother Why do I wrote Salam instead of Salam un alaik?Please do reply.
Now brother I wrote word Quran in bracket because in arabic the word “BE-HEE”
(with it) was mentioned.But you emotionally reacted.While I requested you that see it intlectually.Now go and check the what does BE-HEE stands for?Analyse again please.
Answrs-1(a)[Sura Furqan 25-52] So do not follow the Kafreen, and JIHAD against them a JIHAD-un-KABEERA with it(QURAN).
Analysis:”JIHAD-un-KABEERA with it(QURAN).”
salama
Dear I will go one by one.Patience please.
Dear anti_democratic please learn something about arabic from your friend agrana75.
She is expert in changing the understanding of the aya by telling as:
[Sura Furqan 25-52] : This verse was revealed in Makkah when still Jihad bil Qattal was not allowed.. and you just twisted it to your own Jewish meaning, forgetting all other hundreds of verses on Jahad and Qattal..
Ask her the understanding of BE-HEE. She is saying “you just twisted it to your own Jewish meaning”
Jews and Chiristians are fighting with the SWORD .I already quoted the Bible.
The follower of Biblical concepts are called Jews and Chiristians .But people who believed Quran and practice it are called Muslims. Because Prophet Mohammad proclaimed the Quran not the Bible but people after accepting Islam did not leave the Biblical practices of forefather.
As you already admitted.
Assalamualikum Wr. wb.
Brother —> I can also see what did you mean, when it is within brackets … All i am asking is how do you know, it is talking about Quran here. It doesn’t say explictly. In some Urdu/English translations it has (Quran) in brackets.
I am asking from your side, who ignore all the Ahadith/Ayahs to spread your point across. How did you come to know, it is talking about Quran here. That’s all i am asking.
Dear anti_democratic again I will say SALAMA, Please reply why I am writing Salama instead of Salam un Alaik,
“How did you come to know, it is talking about Quran here. That’s all i am asking.”
Again see brother I wrote the word Quran in bracket because in arabic the word “BE-HEE”(with it) was mentioned.Please check , what does BE-HEE stands for?Analyse again please.
You are more worried about your forefather religion than Quran (the word of Allah) revealed on Prophet PBUH.You are ignoring the essence of every aya.
[6.25] And of them is he who hear to you, and We have put veils over their hearts lest they understand it and a heaviness into their ears; and even if they see every sign they will not believe in it; so much so that when they come to you they only dispute with you; those who disbelieve say: This is naught but the stories of the ancients.
ANALYSIS:(A)”and even if they see every sign they will not believe in it; so much so that when they come to you they only dispute with you”
(B)”This is naught but the stories of the ancients.”
Dear these ayat are alive and valid in all time. There is no need to find out the reaction of people on the ayat in past only.
Again SALAMA.
@Ayub:
I wish if you could ask your pervaizee type so called scholars to answer the following more answers.
I want to know your own interpretation also about the following verses. What is your own opinion on these verses?
1- “And We have sent down unto You the Message so that you may explain clearly to men what is sent for them.” [An-Nahal, 16:44] ..
What all Wants to explain through Messenger, when men like you are already wise enough to understand at their own?
2- “As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise.” [5:38]
What should be the amount of the theft , for which the hand should be cut? As no amount is mentioned in the Quran , so I assume we should cut thief hands even if he steals 5 ruppees.. ?
Adultery is a big crime or stealing 5 ruppess?
Losing hands is a big punishment for Rs 5 or just imprisonment at house or just flogging for Adultery?
I am sure 100% that , this time again you cannot answer my questions because pervaizee books are silent on these issues.
Alhamdulillah we Muslims read whole quran , believe in the truth of every Ayat but dont consider ourselves to be more intellectual than Allah and his messenger Muhammad and have firm faith that what Allah taught his messenger(PBUH) is absolute and our knowledge and wisdom is limited. Quran is easy to understand , but ignoring the reference and background of the verse revealed often misguide. And when there is already hatred for Muhammad sunnah in heart , then according to Quran , ” you cannot be true muslims unless you start loving Muhammad more than any other thing”…. Now you can judge yourself ,where you are standing..
Mr. ayub, I know you published this article after inspired by some pervaizee interpretation and know nothing about Deen. You failed to answer my number of questions because you couldnt find their answers in the Pervaizee books . The article you published is just for “gumraheee”.. you ignored background of the verses revealed and didnt mention the time when they were revealed. You just catch the words and present your own mindset. This is actually typical jewish mindset.
May Allah guide all of us to follow the true path of Islam.
HEyyy Submitters or Quranites,
I have plenty of emails that i exchanged with one of your champions on your favorite website called http://www.submission.org
He has failed to answer any of my questions logically and with references…
He has also failed miserably to even explain things mentioned on this website….
Without going into details… I challenge you to prove that there is no validity of Ahadith… I already have plenty of emails that i can just post on this thread… and i am more than 100% sure that none of your greatest scholars can answer those questions…
So be cool and keep praying like us just like mentioned in the Ahadith
because thats what you do and at the same time reject the Hadith.. way to go…
Salam un alaik,
CLAIM:
agrana75 said:
(then according to Quran , ” you cannot be true muslims unless you start loving Muhammad more than any other thing”)
NOTE:-I CHALLENGE YOU AGAIN THAT YOU CAN NOT ALSO SHOW YOUR THIS CLAIM IN QURAN.
I hope you must believe on” LANAAT ULLAHE ALAL KAZIBEEN.” “CURSE OF ALLAH ON LIERS”.
Please stop misquoting about ALLAH/QURAN/PROPHET/SUNNAH/ISLAM etc.WAITING FOR YOU REPLY.
Please also read the following with care.
agrana75 said:
“Mr. ayub, I know you published this article after inspired by some pervaizee interpretation (100% suspicion) and know nothing about Deen. You failed to answer my number of questions because you couldnt find their answers in the Pervaizee books (100% suspicion) . The article you published is just for “gumraheee”..(suspicion in some cases is a sin) you ignored background of the verses revealed and didnt mention the time when they were revealed. You just catch the words and present your own mindset. This is actually typical jewish mindset.”(suspicion in some cases is a sin)
ALLAH SAYS:
[Sura 49.12] O you who believe! avoid most of suspicion, for surely suspicion in some cases is a sin, and do not spy nor let some of you backbite others. Does one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? But you abhor it; and be careful of Allah, surely Allah is Oft-returning , Merciful.
agrana7:
Please read the bible you will find such type of cocepts.
Bible says:
John 14:23 (Whole Chapter)
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Note:”Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me”
John 8:42 (Whole Chapter)
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Note: “Jesus said unto them,..ye would love me”
But on the contrary Allah says in Quran through Prophet Mohammad pbuh:
Allah said to Prophet to say :
[3.31] Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
Note:(a) “Say: If you love Allah,”
(b) “Allah will love you ”
Please check and improve your forefather belief.
Allah says through Prophet Mohammad pbuh as:
[2.170] And when it is said to them, Follow what Allah has revealed, they say: Nay! we follow what we found our fathers upon. What! and though their fathers had no sense at all, nor did they follow the right way.
@Engr_Ali
You are right;
I have challenged this guy to answer my questions regarding Salat, Fasting, zakat and hajj. But he couldnt. He knows these are fundamentals of Islam according to Quran but as Allah explained them through Muhammad and these people donot believe in Muhammad (PBUH) Ahadith so they cannot answer such things. Apparently they are forced to pray like other muslims but by heart they themselves are confused, what and how to pray in the mosques. They even dont know how to call Azan.
Once some years back, I had a long discussion with the same type of Hadith rejector guy. I asked him, how you will pray when Azan is called. He said just by thinking in mind that I am praying salat and thats it. I asked what and how you will pray ? He said If i am lying in the bed or sitting in the chair , i will remember Allah. I asked how you will remember Allah, will you say some certain supplications, verses etc. HE said it is upto him, he can say anything. Then I asked him about congregational prayer in masjid, but he was just confused..
So you see how these Hadith rejectors offer prayers…
These people never talk about fundamentals of Islam, Salat, zakat, hajj, Jahad etc and only try to confuse the people by quoting Quranic verses without references and backgrounds and twist to their own meanings.
They too believe that revelation process completed in 23 years but fail to tell how do they know Quran was revelaed in 23 years and why Allah took 23 years to reveal, and why not just in one instance.
@Ayub
It looks , You most of the time read bible instead of Quran.
[3.31] Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL..
Muslims follow and love Muhammad, because Allah orders it. If one really loves Allah then he must know what is the meaning of “Atee ur rasool”?
“Say: If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your kindred, the wealth that you have gained, the commerce in which you fear a decline, and the dwellings in which you delight are dearer to you than Allah and His Messenger, and striving hard and Fighting in His Cause; then wait until Allah brings about His Decision (torment). And Allah guides not the rebellious folk.” [At-Tawbah:24]
Say (O Muhammad SAW to mankind): “If you (really) love Allâh then follow me , Allâh will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”[ 3:31]
Say: “Obey Allah and His Messenger”: But if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith. [3:32]
Allah revealeth unto thee( Muhammad) the Scripture and wisdom, and teacheth thee that which thou knewest not. The grace of Allah toward thee hath been infinite. [4:113]
If anyone contends with the Messenger(PBUH) even after guidance has been plainly conveyed to him, and follows a path other than that becoming to men of Faith, We shall leave him in the path he has chosen, and land him in Hell,- what an evil refuge! [4:115]
Blessed is He who sent down the criterion to His servant(PBUH), that it may be an admonition to all creatures;- [25:1]
And We have not sent you but as a giver of good news and as a warner.[25:56]
Muslim religion is Quran and Sunnah (Atee ul llah ha wa atee ur rasool), what is your?
Brother Ayub: Sorry, I have not had the time to respond in detail to your last message to me. I’ll just deal with your request briefly. Firstly, having seen so much hypocrisy here, I doubt if this place is an appropriate venue for debating issues which apply to an Islamic society (where is such a society anyway?). Secondly, I know my limitations and I do not feel qualified to offer an opinion on issues of jurisprudence. I try to live my life in accordance with the principles of Deen – as explained in the Qur’an – which apply to an individual.
I have noticed you refer to agrana75 as “she”. Is my gentleman “brother” in fact a sister? How did you work that out? Your powers of detection appear to be just as remarkable as your knowledge of religions.
Ayub Khan, if you choose to carry on with your Jihad, my prayers go with you. What can you say about people whose idea of “itaa’at-e-Rasul” is to believe whole heartedly in the lies and calumnies that the enemies of Islam maliciously circulated to malign and ridicule Muhammad Rasul-Allah, Rehmatul-lil-aalameen? A belief in ridiculous stories is not “itaa’at” – true obedience is reflected in our actions. A cursory look at the Pakistani society is enough to tell us what the actions of people amount to.
Some people here, especially the lady, have twisted the words that you and I have used. Surely, there are both Qur’anic aayaat and valid ahaadees about the actions of people who deliberately falsify and distort what others say? Are agrana75 and her supporters not aware of those injunctions and sayings? To put the record straight, this is what I have said previously:
“As for ‘sahih ahadees’, no hadees can be regarded as ‘sahih’ which contradicts any part of the Qur’an. This is the primary criterion of whether or not a hadees can be accepted as valid. All other criteria are subservient to this fundamental rule irrespective of whichever collection the hadees comes from.”
“In Al-Quran we are told to follow and obey Muhammad Rasul-Allah, Rehmatul-lil-aalameen but people perversely follow others and they pathetically justify their hypocritical behaviour by attributing false stories to Allah’s Messenger. They may end up – as you have pointed out – obeying the Bible but they will most certainly be disobeying Allah’s Rasul, who told his followers to hold fast to the Book of Allah.”
“If there is a clear contradiction between the Quraan and a “hadith” story, which one will you accept? A munkir-e-Quraan prefers the latter irrespective of how shameful and immoral that story is!”
“The so-called “sahih ahadith” collections were penned by non-Arabs of Persian/Zoroastrian origin some 250-300 after the death of the Last Messenger of Allah. They were Persian speakers who learnt Arabic but did not necessarily master the Quraish dialect of Arabic in which Al-Qur’an was revealed. The so-called muhaditheen had simply travelled around in Arabia listening to stories in circulation at that time. By then many generations had passed and there were literally hundreds of thousands of false stories attributed to Muhammad Rasul-Allah. These stories had been introduced by the enemies of Islam (Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, kharijis, etc.) and by the corrupt Muslim clergy which manufactured fake anecdotes to curry favour with the self-indulgent monarchs who ruled the expanding Muslim empire (they called themselves ‘khalifah’ but, in practice, they were hereditary kings, power passing from father to son).
“ RASUL-ALLAH’S LIFE WAS THE LIVING QUR’AN. WOULD HE TRAMPLE THE QUR’ANIC AAYAAT UNDERFOOT?”
fii amaan Allah.
P.S. A Sheikh at Al-Azhar, Cairo, has written about the derivation of shariah laws from the Bible. I’ll try to get hold of that article and post it here.
@Aseer:
you said:
“ RASUL-ALLAH’S LIFE WAS THE LIVING QUR’AN”…
My question is how do you know his life was living Quran? What is the source of this information? How do you know about his life, when you dont believe in “stories ” about him?
By saying verbally just is not sufficient, you will have to prove that His life was living Quran… When Quran says :
“You have indeed in the Messenger of God (Muhammad) a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is God and the Final Day.” (33:21)
Now, how I will come to know about his life “pattern”, When Allah is referring Muhammad life to follow?
If all we need to follow is Quran without keeping in view Muhammad life then if this verse in not confusing?
Quran didnt tell anything about his life pattern .Now from where you will get information ?
If I have to follow the self interpretations of Quran only , ignoring Muhammad guidance then why Allah is saying Atee ur Rasool?
What is the purpose of Love for Muhammad? How would you love the person , who died 1400 years ago? If , I am following the Quran, then why not just Allah love? Why Allah is including Messenger(PBUH) name also in this verse? :
“Say(to them), If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your kindred, the wealth that you have gained, the commerce in which you fear a decline, and the dwellings in which you delight are dearer to you than Allah and His Messenger, and striving hard and Fighting in His Cause; then wait until Allah brings about His Decision (torment). And Allah guides not the rebellious folk.” [At-Tawbah:24]
By the way , this verse also carries answer to your so called Jahad .
Can you quote me any sahih hadith against Quran?
Regarding Ahadith. You say all these are stories:
Let me summarize your point of view as:
1- These were compiled after life of Prophet muhammad, like after 200 years of his life.
2- Compiled on the basis of the stories , circulated that time.
3- We shouldnt believe , what is not happened in our life even other people are witnessing it is true.
Now let me ask a question..dont take it offensive but sit and think with cool mind:
Let you father name is A and mother is B.. you came to know your father is A, because, your documents say it, your relatives told it and above all your mother B told it… So your belief in A as your father is only due to the people “stories”. when you were born, you dont remember any thing and were not present when your parents did sex and you born. Lets say, you have doubt in it that your father is A and your mother is telling lie. May be she did sex with some one’s else and hide her secret love from every one and when you born she told lie about your actual father. So basis on this doubt, would you like to go to your parents and ask them that you have doubts in A as your father because all this belief is on the “stories” and quite possible that she is not telling the truth… May be she had some secret affair…..Would any one like to go and ask his parents such stupid questions basis on just doubts……. Would he like to demand DNA test? Did such thing ever come into your mind? why not? What do you think , what will be their reaction ? They will serve you with shoes…..:) or serve you with an encouraging pat for your wonderful question.
Now come to our topic.. When dozen of people are witnessing that this ahadith is sahih and the people who are witnessing and informing about it are also well known as good character persons , then why should I doubt?
You should really go and study , how Ahadith were compiled ( Ilm Ism ur Rajjal). what was the criteria of Muhadatheen to declare some hadith strong or weak. It is not like that they just listened and copied it to their books.. but they confirmed it through various sources. Later on , when they compiled in their books, then the people after them did critical analysis on every hadith and the tellers . And then they were declared as Sahih books. The knowledge of sahih hadith was not evolved 200 years after Prophet death but only it was not compiled in proper way. People had many hadiths in their mind and many in uncompiled scriptures just like Quran when it was compiled , people had it in their brains and animal skins etc..
Now when hundred and thousands of people after their intensive research are saying that such n such ahadiths are true , then i have no reason to doubt them same as when all my relatives and mother are saying that he is my father then how can I doubt it and demand for some proof (DNA etc).
Based on your criteria, it means we should not believe any thing happened not before our eyes. We should reject all the the history books and even Quran because it was compiled by humans and may be they lost many “animal skins with verses written on them.and they added at their own…What do you think? What is counter argument? you will quote the verse in quran “we will protect it”. Lets say it was also included by humans then ?
By the way how you come to know Quran was compiled in 23 years and initially it was written in scattered form on animal skins? I couldnt find any such proof in Quran…….
SHARI’AH LAWS ARE PLAGIARIZED FROM THE BIBLE!
Sheikh Sultan M. As-Salameh, Al-Azhar, Cairo
The “Muslim Ummah” is practicing much of the Judeo-Christian beliefs largely from the Old Testament. The ‘religion’ considered and practiced as Islam today has degenerated from the time of Prophet Muhammad (S). In the beginning there was a very simple Deen, Al-Islam revealed to the Prophet (S), which was fully encapsulated in just one Book, Al-Qur’an.
For example, the covering of the head for women which has become a point of much discussion in the West, is actually not found in the Qur’an. Therefore, it is not a part of the original teachings of the Prophet. It has been taken from the Christian Bible and incorporated into Islam.
Similarly many of the beliefs that are considered Islamic are actually derived from the Jewish and Christian scriptures. The early converts from Judaism and Christianity gradually incorporated their old beliefs into Islam to such an extent that the ‘Islam’ of today is often a verbatim manifestation of the Bible. None of these Biblical teachings were known to the Prophet and they cannot be found in the Qur’an at all. But the ‘scholars’ of Islam are unanimous in accepting these beliefs as part of Islam today.
Other than the head covering for women, our other practices like:
Ø The circumcision of males
Ø The stoning to death for adultery
Ø The stoning to death for apostasy
Ø The wearing of beards for men
Ø The dietary prohibition of many types of food
Ø The displaying of holy writings on the wall
Ø The belief that woman is created from man
Ø The collection of religious tithes or Zakaat
Ø The injunction against graven images like statues, sculptures and other representations of human and animal life forms
Ø The religious injunction that menstruating women are spiritually unclean
Ø The ritualized blessing of “Amen”
Ø The animal sacrifice (Aqeeqah) at the birth of children
All these things are derived from the Christian and Jewish Scriptures. This list is by no means exhaustive. These beliefs are NOT found anywhere in the Qur’an which is in fact the earliest and the only authentic teaching of Prophet Muhammad (S). Yet, these teachings can be found in very exact detail in the Christian Bible and the Jewish Scriptures. The Christian West should, therefore, credit it to the great tolerance and absorption of the early scholars and generations of the Muslim Ummah that they were able to bring with them a vast spectrum of Christian and Jewish beliefs which were accepted in that early era and are practiced by Muslims as part of Islam today. Therefore, there is no need for the Judeo-Christian world to be apprehensive about Islam. Our common heritage should bind us together instead of dividing us.
I would like to begin with the issue of the wearing of the head covering for women. In light of the post September 11, 2001 events, this issue has been frequently highlighted in the Western media. Muslim schoolgirls are prohibited from wearing the head-covering in France and elsewhere.
01. HEAD COVER FOR WOMEN ORIGINATES FROM THE BIBLE:
As I mentioned before the wearing of the head covering for women is not part of the Prophet’s teachings and is not found in the Qur’an. It is a belief and a practice that was taken by the early Muslim scholars from the Christian Bible. (1 Cor 11:5-13)
So the commandment for a woman to cover her head is in the Bible. This belief has seeped into the Muslim belief and has now become part and parcel of today’s Islam. The West has no problem with Catholicism putting its nuns in head cover. In Europe Catholic schools still encourage young girls to take up the wearing of the Catholic head-cover.
Unfortunately under the guise of modernity, a vast majority of Christians themselves are not following the teachings of the Bible – the large majority of Christian women do not cover the head. Hence, it is the Muslim Ummah who are very good Christians because they still uphold these Bible teachings.
02. CIRCUMCISION IS DERIVED FROM THE BIBLE:
The Sunni and Shi’a ‘Muslims’ believe male circumcision to be mandatory and they practice it universally. The truth is that God and the Prophet never asked the Muslims to circumcise anyone.
But where does the Muslim belief in circumcision come from? Once again the answer lies in the Bible. The Covenant of Circumcision is mandated in the Bible.
Genesis 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
Later Muslims have found this belief acceptable and have incorporated it into their Muslim practices.
[A comment by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed: Medically speaking, one out of 1,000 males is born without a foreskin. In my humble opinion, Muslims should continue it for the benefits. For example, cancer is seldom encountered in a circumcised penis and the hygiene factor is obvious.]
03. THE ISLAMIC STATE:
The Christian West raises alarm about the so-called ‘Islamic State’. They should not really be afraid. Very often all the precepts and beliefs for the Islamic State, particularly the Shari’ah Law, are based almost entirely on Biblical teachings. They are not found in the Qur’an at all and therefore do not form part of the Prophet’s teachings. An Islamic State under Shari’ah Law is nothing but Biblical Theocracy. This reflects the tolerance of the Muslim faith in accepting and incorporating Biblical teachings into Islam.
The Prophet brought the Qur’an to the entire humanity. But it is a credit to the great tolerance that the Muslim Ummah has picked up the Biblical teachings. The fervor to set up an Islamic State is nothing more than establishing the Biblical Theocracy. Let the Lord’s Kingdom come!
04. PUNISHMENT FOR ADULTERY:
The recent cases of stoning women to death for adultery in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Nigeria are laws that are not from the Qur’an. God and the Prophet never taught Muslims to stone anyone to death for any crime. The words Shariah Law are not even mentioned in the Qur’an. The law of stoning to death for adultery is taken from the Bible. See Deut 22:20-21.
Hence the law of stoning people to death is Biblical. It has been accepted by the Muslims who came after the Prophet and this is another evidence of a great tolerance in Islam for upholding Biblical teachings. Why should the Christian West hold the Muslim Ummah in disgust for upholding Biblical laws?
If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death (Lev 20:10). The Qur’an also prescribes a punishment for adultery, but it is a scourge of 100 lashes (24:2).
05. THE PUNISHMENT OF APOSTASY:
The United Nations Charter on Human Rights guarantees freedom of religion. This right was first guaranteed in the Qur’an.
2:256 There is absolutely no compulsion or coercion in Religion.
God and the Prophet guarantee all humans that they have the right to believe or disbelieve as they choose.
2:193 So, fight them (the aggressors) only until there is no more harassment and Religion may be adopted for the sake of God alone.
No one has the right to deny the right to freedom of religion. People will be held accountable for their choices in the life to come. God will decide what to do with people and their choice of belief. There is no earthly punishment prescribed in the Qur’an for those who believe or disbelieve. (4:137)
The Biblical teachings, however, say that anyone who blasphemes or becomes an apostate from his faith must be punished with death by stoning (Lev 24:16). Included among those who must be put to death by stoning are the deviants. (Deut 13:5-10)
Again it is the great tolerance and flexible nature of Islam today that these Biblical teachings have been absorbed and are practiced as part of the Islamic Shari’ah Law. The teachings from the Christian Bible show the Muslim proximity to the Christian faith. Hence, there should be no conflict between Islam and the Christian West about these laws. We have so much in common with each other.
The list is very long. Just a few of the many other beliefs are now given that the Muslims practice today. They are not found in the Qur’an but are taken from the Christian Bible. Unfortunately, because of the ignorance of the Muslim and Christian masses, these beliefs are manipulated by some clever people as excuses to create a rift between the West and Islam.
06. THE TALIBAN’S DESTRUCTION OF STATUES IN BAMIYAN:
We recall with dismay the huge hue and cry when Taliban destroyed the priceless ancient treasures in Bamiyan. Under the guise of religion, the Taliban insisted that the statues of the Buddha were idols and had to be destroyed. The Taliban based their actions on Islamic beliefs that have actually been absorbed from the Christian Bible. It is a Biblical teaching that graven images must not be made, and if made, they must be destroyed. (Deut 27:15, 4:16).
The Muslims have absorbed these Biblical teachings, and again this reflects the immense capacity of ‘Muslims’ to learn from the Christian Bible. The Qur’an does not say anywhere that statues or graven images are forbidden or that they must be destroyed. The Christian West has to take account of these truths and give due credit to Islam for giving fresh life to the Biblical teachings. Islam’s proximity to the Bible is much deeper than what the Christian West would like to acknowledge.
The Qur’an Does Not Forbid Pictures, Paintings And Sculptures For Décor:
34:13 They worked for him (Solomon) as he desired, making forts, statues, sculptures, paintings and images, pools, and boilers well-dug into the ground….” [Please note a Prophet of God decorating his kingdom with statues, sculptures, paintings and images. Muslim orthodoxy, unfortunately, declares all fine arts as Forbidden.]
07. THE WEARING OF BEARDS:
The Christian West has also been disturbed by the Islamic practice of men wearing beards. After the September 11 event, many Muslim men with beards have been the subject of suspicion and summary searches by police and other law enforcement agencies throughout the West. Keeping beard is again not the teachings of the Prophet or the Qur’an. Instead, the wearing of beards by men is taken from the Christian Bible. The Christian Bible makes it clear.
Leviticus 19:27 Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard. 21:5 Priests must not shave their heads or shave off the edges of their beards or cut their bodies.
2 Samuel 10:5 When David was told about this, he sent messengers to meet the men, for they were greatly humiliated. The king said, “Stay at Jericho till your beards have grown, and then come back.”
Hence, the Taliban were following the Bible when they insisted that men should wear beards. No doubt the Prophet and the Qur’an never commanded men to sport beards. It is Islam’s greatness as an evolving religion that it has absorbed much from the Judeo-Christian Scriptures.
The Muslims are told in the Qur’an that they should not follow the path of the Christians and the Jews. Despite such warning, the Muslim scholars, in the interests of preserving harmony and peace with their Christian brothers and sisters, decided that the Biblical teachings should be closely upheld by good Muslims. Therefore, the fear by the Christian West is misplaced and unfounded.
In conclusion, I would like to state that both Muslims and the Christian West should study and take cognizance of the vast area of similarity between the Muslim beliefs and Christian Biblical teachings.
In this age of high tensions, paranoia and fear of everything that is deemed Islamic, the Christian West should appreciate the fact that for one thousand years, the Muslim scholars have already shown a great tolerance towards Christianity by learning and absorbing many parts of the Christian Bible into their Islamic faith.
NOTE: The above list has been taken from the Christian Bible. Nothing of it can be found in the Qur’an.
In the light of the evident flexibility in Islam today, I hope that the Muslims all over the world will make the effort to show their Christian brothers and sisters that a great amount of our Islamic Shari’ah is drawn from the Christian Bible. At the same time I urge the Christians and Jews to give Muslims the due credit for being loyal to the Christian Bible and Jewish Scriptures. We have more in common between us than what divides us.
@Aseer:
You should have had pasted the link , instead of copying and pasting it here.
http://ourbeacon.com/index.php?p=29433
Who is Sheikh Sultan M. As-Salameh, Al-Azhar, Cairo? Is he a messenger or prophet?
Some thing given in bible doesnt make it mandantory that Muslims also adopted them from Bible..You have to show the real proof. If your theory is true then , it can be implied that all the things which are common among bible and Quran are fake.
The fundamentals of the religions were never changed. Thats why they are found with less or more details in all the holy books.
I wonder why your shaikh didnt give fatwa about :
1- Cutting head hair as it is not mentioned in the quran.
2- Shaving pubic hairs as Quran doesn’t mention it.
3- Taking bath after sex as no such method is given in quran. It just asks cleanliness.
Can you ask your so called shaikh to explain these verses:
“You have indeed in the Messenger of God (Muhammad) a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is God and the Final Day.” (33:21)
*****Where are details of Muhammad life pattern?
“Allah revealeth unto thee( Muhammad) the Scripture and wisdom, and teaching thee that which thou knew not. The grace of Allah toward thee hath been infinite”. [4:113]
****If muhammad was just forwarding the Quranic verses to his ummah, then what is meant by teaching in this verses?
Yes, Allah says ; they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad ) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission. (Quran 4:65)
**** You believe that Quranic verses are for all the time , now tell me one thing how i can make Muhammad(PBUH) a judge in my disputes with other people?
“And We have sent down unto You the Message so that you may explain clearly to men what is sent for them.” [An-Nahal, 16:44] ..
**** Why Allah is saying to explain clearly, why not to convey them? where is that explanation for today muslims?
Dont just copy and paste articles from websites.. Take some time and try to answer my questions in this and above comments.
@Aseer & @Ayub:
You people should really learn arabic and then read the Quran. You are really misguided by the twisted and self created translation by Jewish agents ( Parvaizee and qadianee) who were deputed to confuse muslims.
Salam un alaik @Engr_Ali :
Actually I am engaged with agrana75 in the discussion and he is asking all similar type of questions that is why i am not answering you.Sorry for that.I do understand your feelings. But I would like to clarify you that in all above messeges I did not say that I reject Sunnah and Hadith etc.
If you want to relate me with this story as you quoted “I asked what and how you will pray ? He said If i am lying in the bed or sitting in the chair , i will remember Allah. “Then I will must request you to follow the Sunnah of Momineen as mentioned:
[Sura 49.12] O you who believe! avoid most of suspicion, for surely suspicion in some cases is a sin, and do not spy nor let some of you backbite others. Does one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? But you abhor it; and be careful of Allah, surely Allah is Oft-returning , Merciful.
Please avoid suspicion about me.See what is being quoted.Discuss on that.I know how to proceed the discussion according the Sunnah of the Prophet pbuh mentioned in Quran.I am only accountable to Allah not any body.
{agrana75 said:
@Ayub
It looks , You most of the time read bible instead of Quran./No I compare the AQEEDA of my family and I try to reach the root.
Muslim religion is Quran and Sunnah (Atee ul llah ha wa atee ur rasool), what is your?”}
agrana75 said:
(then according to Quran , ” you cannot be true muslims unless you start loving Muhammad more than any other thing”)
[9.23] O you who believe! do not take your fathers and your brothers for guardians if they love unbelief more than belief; and whoever of you takes them for a guardian, these it is that are the unjust.
[9.24] Say: If your fathers and your sons and your brethren and your mates and your kinsfolk and property which you have acquired, and the slackness of trade which you fear and dwellings which you like, are “Aa-Habba” to you than Allah and His Messenger and JIHAD in His way, then wait till Allah brings about His command: and Allah does not guide the transgressing people.
Analysis:”Aa-Habba Elekum minal-Lahe wa Rasool-e-he wa Jihad-un fee sabeel-e-hee”
Allah is pointing them thier LOVE with above mentioned relationships and things which are stoping them to follow Allah and His Messenger.
But where is the following statement in Quran?
(then according to Quran , ” you cannot be true muslims unless you start loving Muhammad more than any other thing”)
Please be fair this is not the competition of knowledge but it is the review of our forefathers concepts.There is always room for improvement through Quran Majeed.
Only the book of Allah has no doubt,no contradiction,no error,etc and all other books written by men have doubt,error,contradiction etc in the subject of GUIDANCE.
arganza 75 said:
Muslim religion is Quran and Sunnah (Atee ul llah ha wa atee ur rasool), what is your?”}
Millat-e-Ibrahim is my religion.
[2.130] And who forsakes the religion of IBRAHIM but he who makes himself a fool, and most certainly We chose him in this world, and in the hereafter he is most surely among the righteous.
arganza 75
Actually the main hurdle to follow Allah and his messenger are the LOVE mentioned as: “Say: If your fathers and your sons and your brethren and your mates and your kinsfolk and property which you have acquired, and the slackness of trade which you fear and dwellings which you like”
@Ayub and @Aseer
I just came across your one of websites :
I was reading about zakat on this website. Look what you scholar is saying;
http://www.submission.org/ramadan/zakat.html
“This known amount as God calls it, is 2.5%. This is the ONLY “known amount” to the submitters (Muslims). This amount, 2.5% was passed down to us, generation after generation, like Salat, from the time of Abraham to our time.”
Did you note any thing here.. Zakat rate is not given in Quran and your scholar is admitting that we fix rate 2.5% because we get this from generation to generation from Ibrahim(PBUH).. The funniest part is that he didnt quote any reference, example how it was passed generation to generation. On one side when we say that Ahadith were formulated after heavy investigation and research and Quran proves that Muhammad (PBUH) practice and actions are part of “deen” so Allah saved them it same as Quran was saved then you blames us that we are following forefathers religion but on other side look your scholar is quoting Zakat rate , not on the basis of Quran and even not on the basis of any research that how it was passed from Ibrahim to us. He cannot present any single example from old books that any messenger or Shariah had this rate between Ibrahim and Muhammad (PBUH)…
Think … again n again at all the Quranic verses not just take few and create a new religion. ..
I just finished up your whole website:
It is so funny and mixes of conflicting materials that even a child can judge that how dishonestly and deliberatly you people are corrupting Islam.
Be prepare I am gonna quote many things from this website and ask you various questions..
http://www.submission.org
I hope , you people will not mind to answer me.
I will prove that , you people are actually following your forefathers religion ….
{agrana75 said:
I just came across your one of websites :}
Reply to your statement is that I have not quoted any website to you sister.Please correct your statement if you follow Allah and His messenger.Thanks
———————————————————————————–
Ayub said:
arganza 75 said:
Muslim religion is Quran and Sunnah (Atee ul llah ha wa atee ur rasool), what is your?”}
Millat-e-Ibrahim is my religion.
[2.130] And who forsakes the religion of IBRAHIM but he who makes himself a fool, and most certainly We chose him in this world, and in the hereafter he is most surely among the righteous.
arganza 75 read the following aya and correct a such:-
[2.165] And from men ther are ,who take parallel to Allah, whom they love as they should love Allah, and those who believe are stronger in love for Allah and O, that those who are unjust had seen, when they see the chastisement, that the power is wholly Allah’s and that Allah is severe in requiting (evil).
(A) “those who believe are stronger in love for Allah”
(B)”And from men ther are ,who take parallel to Allah, whom they love as they should love Allah”
agrana75 said:
(then according to Quran , ” you cannot be true muslims unless you start loving Muhammad more than any other thing”)
arganza 75 said:
{Think … again n again at all the Quranic verses not just take few and create a new religion. ..}
Answer:-[2.44] Do you order the people to be good and forget your own souls while you read Al-Kitab; do you not use your intelegence?
You quoted the criteria to be muslim without any proof.Is it good?
agrana75 said:
(then according to Quran , ” you cannot be true muslims unless you start loving Muhammad more than any other thing”)
@all
pardon my intrusion but this is a bit of a ridiculous debate.
The ahadith was compiled a few hundred years after the death of the prophet which implies that there is a pretty good chance that a lot of mumbo jumbo got inserted alongside real sayings/actions of the prophet . I can understand why a rational (believer) would have a few doubts about their validity.
The quran on the otherhand was compiled (in book form) during uthman’s time which implies there is a high probability that it is indeed unchanged from its inception.
And now (supposedly) educated people are too busy arguing whether hadith can be validated or not… frankly who cares… i mean you don’t need a degree from al azhar or qom to figure out that flogging is a warped archaic way of punishment…it don’t apply no more..
this over-obsession with the interpretation of religious texts in an ALIEN language to all of us leads to further confusion.. i mean what’s so special about arabic anyway.. does that mean that god prefers the arabs to the rest of the world?? are we all (non-arabs) inferior to the arabs??
Why are we all so obsessed about appearances.. doall of you think that a supreme omniscient, omnipresent being really cares a hoot about whether if someone prays in the sunni/hanafi way or the the shia way..or has a beard or not .(or flogging adulterers or merely jaling them) As long as they are communing with god and performing good deeds and refraining from doing harm to the fellow beings isn’t that much more important…
we have so many more glaring problems in our society but all we worry about is the most irre
@Ayub said:
Millat-e-Ibrahim is my religion.
[2.130] And who forsakes the religion of IBRAHIM but he who makes himself a fool, and most certainly We chose him in this world, and in the hereafter he is most surely among the righteous.
Once again u distor the ayah, that ayah is directed at ppl of book, jews and christians and mushrikeen asking whats the fight btween us, if we can’t agree on anything we can agree that abaraham was righteous and his deen which was monethism is the way. The point of ayah, that There is noone worthy of worship except one God.
Thats the problem May ALLAH guide us all and u to righteous path.
@Admin
Once again this distortion of ayah;s is done on your site have fear of God and remove this article.
@gv
We know that, quran was compiled in Uthman(RA) Khilafa. My question is that how we know that? Quran itself didnt depict anywhere that it was compiled in Uthman (RA) khilafa.
If our informationsource is not on the basis of the same ” Ahadith books” which the Hadith Rejectors call the “stories” and unreliable books.?
@agrana75
why don’t you read what i’ve written again…
The ahadith was which I can understand why a rational (believer) would have a few doubts about their validity.
sorry i meant
The ahadith was compiled a few hundred years after the death of the prophet which implies that there is a pretty good chance that a lot of mumbo jumbo got inserted alongside real sayings/actions of the prophet . I can understand why a rational (believer) would have a few doubts about their validity.
@Ayub:
If you had pondered the following Verses I quoted, with a cool mind then you wouldnt had to criticize (“you cannot be true muslims unless you start loving Muhammad more than any other thing”)
“Say(to them), If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your kindred, the wealth that you have gained, the commerce in which you fear a decline, and the dwellings in which you delight are dearer to you than Allah and His Messenger(PBUH), and striving hard and Fighting in His Cause (Jahad); then wait until Allah brings about His Decision (torment). And Allah guides not the rebellious folk.” [At-Tawbah:24]
“And We have sent down unto You the Message so that you may explain clearly to men what is sent for them.” [An-Nahal, 16:44] ..
“You have indeed in the Messenger of God (Muhammad) a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is God and the Final Day.” (33:21)
“Allah revealeth unto thee( Muhammad) the Scripture and wisdom, and teaching thee that which thou knew not. The grace of Allah toward thee hath been infinite”. [4:113]
Yes, Allah says ; they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad ) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission. (Quran 4:65)
“The Prophet is preferable for the believers even to their own selves…” (33:6)
“Undoubtedly, God and His angels love, glorify and bless the Prophet. O believers! You (too) love, glorify and bless the Prophet and salute him with all due respect.” (33:56)
“Say (to mankind O Muhammad), If you love God, follow me (and) God will love you…” (3:31)
Proclaim: “You shall obey GOD and the messenger.” If they turn away, GOD does not love the disbelievers. (3:32)
I didnt quote in my previous comments the verse number nor exact words but a general rule of the Islam being informed to us on the basis of the above verses..
I am a follower of Quran . If I have to follow it based on my own Interpretation then I cannot understand the role and importance of the prophet(PBUH)…
Can you explain ,
1) why Allah is naming Muhammad (PBUH) with his name (‘as dearer”) in At-Tawbah:24 why not Just Allah?
2) why Allah is declaring his life Pattern as an example for us. .. where as details of his life pattern cannot be found in the Quran.. Then why he is insisting on it?
3)Why Allah is saying that If you love Allah, follow Prophet(PBUH) why not just quran..
4) Why Allah is asking to prefer Muhammad than theirselves and why not just prefer Quran or Allah..
5) Why Should I obey Messenger , When I have to follow Quran theough my own interpretations..
I am totally confused.. Can you explain?
I cannot find the connection between following of Quran and Love for messenger(PBUH).. If I dont love messenger then why it is not possible to to follow the Quran? how ?
How can I obey him today after the 1400 years of his death?
You may say that following quran is actually like to obey Muhammad..I agree but why it is being asked to obey Muhammad , why not Allah or Quran just?
If I love some one , it is quite natural that i will try to know what he likes or dislikes, what he eats or drinks, how he walks, how he talks, how he behaves other, in short i will try my best to get as much information as possible and will copy or try to follow all his habits or ways… am I wrong?
What is your criteria of loving some one?
also we can carbon date old copies of the quran
@gv
Please Read my following comments..I quoted earlier…
Dont take it offensive but sit and think with cool mind:
Let you father name is A and mother is B.. you came to know your father is A, because, your documents say it, your relatives told it and above all your mother B told it… So your belief in A as your father is only due to the people “stories”. when you were born, you dont remember any thing and were not present when your parents did sex and you born. Since no body knew what actually was happened so It is pretty much possible that A is not your father and your mother is telling lie. May be she did sex with some one’s else and hide her secret love from every one and when you born she told lie about your actual father. So basis on this doubt, would you like to go to your parents and ask them that you have doubts in A as your father because all this belief is on the “stories” and quite possible that she is not telling the truth… May be she had some secret affair…..
Would any one like to go and ask his parents such stupid questions basis on just doubts……. Would he like to demand DNA test? Did such thing ever come into your mind? why not? What do you think , what will be their reaction ? They will serve you with shoes…..:) or serve you with an encouraging pat at your back for your wonderful question.
Now come to our topic.. When dozen of people are witnessing that these ahadith are sahih and the people who are witnessing and informing about them are also well known as good character persons , then why should I doubt?
You should really go and study , how Ahadith were compiled ( Ilm Ism ur Rajjal). what was the criteria of Muhadatheen to declare some hadith strong or weak. It is not like that they just listened and copied it to their books.. but they confirmed it through various sources. Later on , when they compiled in their books, then the people after them did critical analysis on every hadith and the tellers . And then they were declared as Sahih books. The knowledge of sahih hadith was not evolved 200 years after Prophet death but only it was not compiled in proper way. People had many hadiths in their mind and many in uncompiled scriptures just like Quran when it was compiled , people had it in their brains and animal skins etc..
Now when hundred and thousands of people after their intensive research are saying that such n such ahadiths are true , then i have no reason to doubt them same as when all my relatives and mother are saying that he is my father then how can I doubt it and demand for some proof (DNA etc).
Based on your criteria, it means we should not believe any thing happened not before our eyes. We should reject all the the history books and even Quran because it was compiled by humans and may be they lost many “animal skins with verses written on them.and they added at their own…What do you think? What is counter argument? you will quote the verse in quran “we will protect it”. Lets say it was also included by humans then ?
@agrana75
i actually agree with your final paragraph if iam purely objective i have to accept that there is a possibility that it could be work of man.
That’s what religion is all about. a leap of faith. As i explained earlier i think any logical being will agree that people’s memories are weak and it is easy to distort what they think someone said or did some time back
do you remember all the sayings of your parents or grandparents verbatim??? i know i don’t and i also know that i change those to suit my purposes from time to time – its perfectly normal human behaviour to do so.
the compilation quran was a collective effort where the source material was a number of people who memorised the same verses so you had a reference point to check.
The hadith can easily be distorted as hypothetically speaking as a sahaba of the prophet i could claim that i was told something in private which cannot ever be confirmed.
(an example for me of the illogic of hadith is the emphasis of the right hand – does that mean that left handed people are unloved by god or natually impure?)
secondly i’m sorry but i don’t buy the sanctity of parents argument you give as a metaphor.
Asalamu alaikum.
Hum ghulaamaana zehniyet ke Pakistani ek ajnabi zuban meiN baRay josh-o-kharosh se apni ghalat-salat Angrezi meiN deeni aur nazari masaael ki behs meiN uljhay huway haiN. Kya humaaray liye Urdu zuban meiN ek cyber-khana (website) banana mumkin naheiN tha? Cheeni, Jaapaani aur Koriaaee log apni apni zubaanoN ko ahmiyyet de kar taraqqi ke maidaan meiN kahaaN se kahaaN nikal gaye haiN aur hum kahaaN khaRay haiN?
Bhaiyo aur Behno, Al-Quran hameiN tafakkur aur tadabbur ki taakeed karta hai. Afsos hai ke aap meiN se ba’z aisay haiN jinheiN is Quraani hukm ka ilm hii naheiN hai. Voh samajhtay haiN ke andha aqeeda aur andhi taqleed hii Islam hai. Isee ghalat ravish ki vajah se Musalmaan tamaam dunyia meiN zaleel o khaar ho rahay haiN (aur sadiyoN se hotay chalay aa rahay haiN). Andhi taqleed hameiN insaanoN ka ghulaam banaa deti hai aur Allah ka baaghi.
Iss mubaahasay meiN andhi taqleed ke maaray huway logoN ne akhlaaqi asool baalaay taaq rakh ke jhootay ilzaamaat kii buchhaaR kar dii hai. Kya meray alfaaz ko masakh karna kaafi naheiN tha? Ab mera ta’alluq ek aisee website se joR diya gaya hai jo meray liye ajnabi hai. MaiN ne qaari’een ko jis website pe jaanay ka mashvarah diya tha voh ye hai: http://www.ourbeacon.com. Agar aap yahaaN ka chakar lagaa aaeiN to aap Islam ke mujrimoN ko achchi tarah pehchaananay lag jaaeiN gay.
Amlan hum musalmaan naheiN rahay khwah hum apni zuban se jo marzi kaheiN. Pakistani muaasharay par ek nigaah daaliye, aap ko har taraf jhoot, fareb aur khud gharzi nazar aaye gii. Ek taraf mullaiyet ka maara huwa tabqa-e-johalaa hai aur doosri taraf Maghrib-zadah muqtadir tabqa hai. Kehnay ko ye doosra tabqa ta’leem yaafta hai lekin ye aisee ta’leem hai jis ne in logoN se izzat-e-nafs chheen lii hai aur unheiN apni zuban aur saqaafat se begaana kar diya hai.
Pakistan kii aabaadi mahz Karachi, Lahore aur Islamabad jaisay baRay shehroN tak mehdood naheiN jahaaN Angrezi zuban aur Maghrabi culture ko pooja jaata hai. Hamaaray vatan kii 90% aabaadi iss zuban ko naheiN samajhti jis ke nateejay meiN hamaari 90% zahaanat tabaah ho jaati hai kyuNke Angrezi se naavaaqfiyet kii vajah se logon ke liye aagay baRhnay ki raaheN masdood kar dee gaee haiN. Iqtedaar kii kursiyoN pe bohat se aisay log baraajmaan haiN jin kii zehni qabliyet ma’mooli sii hai lekin ameer gharaanay meiN paida honay kii vajah se unheiN ulti seedhi Angrezi iste’maal karni aa ga’ee hai. Inhi kotah-aql aur kotah-nigaah logoN ne Urdu ko apnay hii vatan meiN zindah dar gor kar ke rakha huwa hai.
Jo qaum khud apni tazleel meiN itni tundahi se masroof ho usay dunyia meiN izzat kaisay milay gii? Humaari rahi sahi naak hamaaray sadar ne Amreeka meiN kaat dii. VahaaN iss “masKharay” kii Angrezi ka khoob mazaaq uRaaya gaya. MiaaN, agar tu bhi CheeniyoN kii tarah beroN-e-mulk apni qaumi zuban meiN baat karta aur mutarjim se tarjumah karvaata to tujhay bhi CheeniyoN ka saa vaqaar mil sakta tha.
Maghrib ka maara huwa ghulam aisee baateiN kya samjhay! Sadar Sahib to Obama kii gaaliyaaN khaa ke bhi bud-mazah na huwa thay aur us kii har baat pe sar-e-tasleem khum kar detay thay! Kahaa unhoN ne Obama se: “Hazoor, mera to hamesha se hii ye khayaal tha ke Pakistan ko Bharat se kabhi kHatra naheiN rahaa!”
Parvaaz hai donoN kii isee ek fazaa meiN
Kargas ka jahaaN aur hai shaheeN ka jahaaN aur!
[Iqbal]
@aseer
Aseer sahib,
Kiya aap mujhe kuch kehne ki koshish kar rahe hein?
@Ayub said:
Millat-e-Ibrahim is my religion.
[2.130] And who forsakes the religion of IBRAHIM but he who makes himself a fool, and most certainly We chose him in this world, and in the hereafter he is most surely among the righteous.
razakhan said:
“Once again u distor the ayah, that ayah is directed at ppl of book, jews and christians and mushrikeen asking whats the fight btween us, if we can’t agree on anything we can agree that abaraham was righteous and his deen which was monethism is the way. The point of ayah, that There is noone worthy of worship except one God. ”
Ayub Reply:What is the distortion?You check the arabic and translation.Again I say my religion is Millat-e-Ibrahim.Also read as:
[4.125] And who has a better DEEN than he who submits himself entirely to Allah? And he is the doer of good and follows the RELIGION of IBRAHIM, the upright one, and Allah took IBRAHIM as a friend.
Dear razakhan:Please read above and reply.
AArganza 75:Read as follows:
[3.31] Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
Note:(a) “Say: If you love Allah,”
(b) “Allah will love you ”
Analysis:Allah is clearly saying LOVE ALLAH and Follow The RASOOL.
[9.24] Say: If your fathers and your sons and your brethren and your mates and your kinsfolk and property which you have acquired, and the slackness of trade which you fear and dwellings which you like, are “Aa-Habba” to you than Allah and His Messenger and JIHAD in His way, then wait till Allah brings about His command: and Allah does not guide the transgressing people.
Analysis:Now people are invoved in the LOVE of above mentioned relations and things.Then Allah is reminding them to Follow Allah and Messenger and do Jihad in his way in comparison with THE LOVE of relations and things mentioned.
IN THE WHOLE QURAN THERE IS NOT A SINGLE PROPHET WHO SAID TO THE PEOPLE TO LOVE WITH HIM.
[2.165] And from men ther are ,who take parallel to Allah, whom they love as they should love Allah, and those who believe are stronger in love for Allah and O, that those who are unjust had seen, when they see the chastisement, that the power is wholly Allah’s and that Allah is severe in requiting (evil).
(A) “those who believe are stronger in love for Allah”
(B)”And from men ther are ,who take parallel to Allah, whom they love as they should love Allah”
Now its very easy to understand the concept of LOVE with the Prophet.
This is also the Biblical concept as I quoted the Bible.
Bible says:
John 14:23 (Whole Chapter)
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Note:”Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me”
John 8:42 (Whole Chapter)
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Note: “Jesus said unto them,..ye would love me”
@Ayub:
The verse is very clear and I dont know what is problem in your mind with it.
(Are “Aa-Habba” to you than Allah and His Messenger ) ..What is meant by Aa, Habba? does it mean something else than beloved or dearer?
Pick any translation or ask any arabic scholar, what is meant by this verse. Dont try to make your self fool.. dont distort and misguide your mind by following the mis intrepretated and self explained trasnlations of “pervaizee( munkareen-e-Hadith and prophet love)” people which are present day big fitnas.
If you dont love Prophet Muhammad(PBUH).. you cannot act upon Quran ..
His character is a life pattern for us (33:21) . If you dont love this role model, then you are against Quranic teachings.
[3.31] Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL:
Clearly, Allah has set the criteria of his love in following Muhammad(PBUH). But still your mind seems to be in darks.
‘Whoever obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys Allah, and whoever turns back, so We have not sent you as a keeper over them”.[4:80]
Allah did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them a messenger from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs of Allah, sanctifying them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, they had been in manifest error . [3:164]
@Ayub
And whoever obeys Allah and the Messenger, these are with those upon whom Allah has bestowed favors from among the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the good, and a goodly company are they! [4:69]
@Ayub
Whatever Allah has restored to His Messenger from the people of the towns, it is for Allah and for the Messenger, and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, so that it may not be a thing taken by turns among the rich of you, and whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is severe in retributing (evil): [59:7]
@Ayub:
And We have also sent down unto you (O, Muhammad) the Dhikr (the Qur’ân), “li-Tubayyina” (that YOU may give the Bayan, or explain clearly) to men what is sent down to them}; [16:44].
If you have some doubts about “li-Tubayyina”, ask any arabic language master. what does it actually mean?
@Ayub , Aseer and all other Munkreen-e-Hadith and Munkreen Love for Prophet:
Just answer the following questions:
1- How muslim should offer prayer (Salat)? What should they spell , what times of the day, how many times, how many Rakats?
2- What is the difference between an individual prayer and congregation prayer?
3- How Muslims should pray Zakat and at what rate?
4- What is meant by fasting and what time of the day it starts and what time it ends?
I wish , if could answer me with proof from Quran …
If you cannot answer , at least admit it…
Some more questions for Munkreen- e-Hadith:
1- Quran asked for Tahara but didnt explain it..could any one explain how one can get tahara? Is ablution enough or one has to take bath. If bath then what does it mean by taking bath? Just throwing water over the body?
2- Quran doesnt mention to cut nails, pubic hairs etc.. so do you think if muslims consider it a mandantory part of Islam to cut them is an innovation based on “stories”? What is your practice?
3- What should be the method of calling Azan?
gv Sahib:
Aap to ek bohat suljhay huway insaan haiN, jis se mujhay koee shikaayet naheiN.
Afsos bus iss baat ka hai ke iss vaqt jab Pakistan ek intehaa’ee naazuk moR pe khaRa hai bohat se naadaan log mazhabi mubaahasoN meiN apni tavaanaa’ee zaa’e karnay par tulay huway haiN. Deen ko mazhabi firqoN meiN badal denay vaalay, ravaadaari se aari log, Taliban se kuchh zyaadah mukhtalif naheiN. Agar maiN in ke saamnay Qur’an kii vaazih hidaayaat rakh duN jin meiN Deen ko firqoN meiN taqseem karnay kii sakht mumaana’at kii ga’ee hai to ye log aisee “hadeeseN” dhund laa’eiN gay jo Qur’an kii aayaat ko (na’uz billah) muattal kar deti haiN!
Qur’an to kehta hai ke Deen ke muamalay meiN qat’an koee jabr naheiN lekin ye log usay maananay ke liye tayyaar naheiN. In ke liye Islam achchay akhlaaq aur a’maal ka naam haneiN balkeh ghair aham juziyaat ko apni marzi ke mutaabiq dhaalnay ka naam hai!
Kal meiN ‘Thana culture’ vaali laRi/thread pe tha. VahaaN maiN ne bhi apni raaye darj kar dii. Agar aap ko dilchaspi ho to paRh leN. Baar baar ye khayaal pareshaan karta hai ke hamaara vatan is maujoodah haalat meiN kaisay pohncha aur hum maazi kii kotaahiyoN kii kis tarah talaafi kar saktay haiN. Zaahir hai mulk meiN insaaf qaaem karna laazami hai, jis ke baghair ek Islami muaasharay ka vujood mumkin naheiN. Lekin insaaf us vaqt tak mumkin naheiN jab tak Pakistan meiN ek duhraa nizaam-e-ta’leem maujood hai aur logoN ko qaumi zindagi meiN yaksaaN mavaaqe muyasser naheiN.
Duaa keejiye ke Pakistan kii khaana jangi jald khatam ho jaaye aur hum beroni aur androni dushmanoN ke shar se mehfooz raheiN. Sar-e–dast hum aam shehriyoN kii avvaleen tarjeeh khana-jangi se muta’asir muhaajireen ki imdaad honi chaahiye – hammaaray hakoomti idaaray aur nokar-shaahi nizaam ek baar phir apni bay-hissi aur bay-amali kii makrooh numaaeish kiye huway haiN!
fii amaan Allah.
@Aseer:
It is very difficult to read your urdu in english. Cannot you type in urdu script and paste it here?
agrana75 said:
@Ayub and all other Munkreen-e-Hadith and Munkreen Love for Prophet:
Answer:
If I would Clarify to any Christian that Quran does not say to LOVE with Essa pbuh then He will also reply the same because his Bible say “you are Munka-e-Bible and Love of Essa”.
Unfortunately you are also behaving the same.Please try to understand the status of Prophets of Allah.
Your second Question:”If you have some doubts about “li-Tubayyina”, ask any arabic language master. what does it actually mean?”
Answer:“li-Tubayyina”
Sister I am also following the Sunnah of Prophet pbuh to write this article for the clarification believers and also clarifying you for more than one weak.But you are emphisizng me to follow the Bible and forefathers concepts.
Read as follows to examine my knowledge about “li-Tubayyina”.
[3.187] And when Allah made a covenant with those who were given AL-KITAB(the Book):(La-tu-bayya-nunnahu Linnass) You shall certainly explain to mankind and you shall not hide it; but they threw it behind their backs and took a small price for it; so evil is that which they buy.
I hope you will Insha Allah understand my intention.
correction:- He will also say to me“you are Munka-e-Bible and Love of Essa”.
agrana75 said:
Just answer the following questions:
1,2,3,4 mentioned above.
I wish , if could answer me with proof from Quran …
If you cannot answer , at least admit it…
Masha Allah I can answer every question you are asking.But I will give preference the five things mentioned in the aya as follows:
[2.177] It is not righteousness that you turn your faces towards the East and the West, but righteousness is this that one should believe in (1)Allah and(2) the last day and (3)the angels and (4)the Book and the (5)prophets, and give away wealth out of love for Him to the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and the beggars and for (the emancipation of) the captives, and keep up prayer (SALAT) and pay the Zakat; and the performers of their promise when they make a promise, and the patient in distress and affliction and in time of conflicts– these are they who are {rue (to themselves) and these are they who guard (against evil).
Because Quran says Munafiq are also establishing the SALAT and some people are spending to show to mankind.
“agrana75 said:
whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is severe in retributing (evil): [59:7]”
Answer:Rasool says:
Al- FURQAN- 25 30. And the Messenger will say, ” O my lord! Surely, my people took this AL-QURAN and abandoned it. (did not practice)
Now you decide which book he gave us Bible or Quran .
“agrana75 said:
The verse is very clear and I dont know what is problem in your mind with it.
(Are “Aa-Habba” to you than Allah and His Messenger ) ..What is meant by Aa, Habb”
Answer:Please consider the third word “JIHAD” also.
“Aa-Habba” to you than Allah and His Messenger and Jihad un fee sabeel-e-hee”Do you thing that we have to Love Jihad also.
Please read as follows:
[9.24] Say: If your fathers and your sons and your brethren and your mates and your kinsfolk and property which you have acquired, and the slackness of trade which you fear and dwellings which you like, are “Aa-Habba” to you than Allah and His Messenger and JIHAD in His way, then wait till Allah brings about His command: and Allah does not guide the transgressing people.
Analysis:Since the people are more involved in the LOVE of above mentioned relations and the things than to Follow Allah and Messenger and do Jihad in his way.
I hope you will understand.Kindly quote any other aya also to prove your point.Or any other aya where Allah has mentioned to LOVE the prophet etc.
@Ayub:
Highly disappointing answers. None of your explanations, carry a straight forward reply. Just beating about the bushes..
agrana75 Actually the reason of disappointment is mentioned in the following aya.
The defination of fasiqoon(transgressors):-
[57.16] Has not the time yet come for those who believe that their hearts should be humble for the remembrance of Allah and what has come down of the truth? And that they should not be like those who were given Al-Kitab (the Book)from before, but the long time has passed over them, so their hearts hardened, and most of them are fasiqoon(transgressors).
Please try to improve the condition like as mentioned.
The defination of Al-Mominoon (the believers):-
[8.2] Those only are Al-Mominoon (believers)whose hearts become full of fear when Allah is mentioned, and when His Ayat (Verses) are recited on them they increase their Imaan (Belief), and in their Sustainer do they trust.
@ ayub:
You are just escaping the straight forward questions.. I can also quote hundred of verses to fill this page but i dont want to divert the topic we are discussing…
I asked you very straight forward questions about the method ofcalling azan, praying (Salt), fasting, zakat but you just quoted the verse mentioning that we should do all these things.. my question was how and you are saying yes we should do that as quran says.. but you are failed to answer, what is the method to do these basic virtues?
Similalry Allah is mentioning again and again “Follow Allah and his Rasool”.. but your needle is stuck that you dont need to follow him.. quran is enough for you.. Allah is saying Muhammad (PBUH) is role model for us but you are saying that you are more intellectual and dont need to follow this role model. The Prophet who got direct guidance from Allah is no more followable as you have got more wisdom than him.. Allah is saying that he has revealed verses to prophet so that he could explain them clearly to his ummat but you are saying that all his explanations are just stories .
In short you are challenging Allah wordings and just following some bunch of misguided “parvaize” scholars… considering yourself more wise than Allah and his messenger(PBUH).
arganza 75 said:”You are just escaping the straight forward questions.. I can also quote hundred of verses to fill this page but i dont want to divert the topic we are discussing…”
Answer:Kindly correct your self.The topic was FLOGGING.I did not change the topic.Then the second Topic you started by your misquote about Quran as:
“(then according to Quran , ” you cannot be true muslims unless you start loving Muhammad more than any other thing)”
I am not changing the Topics.Your trying to change the topic.
You are accusing me as:
“Similalry Allah is mentioning again and again “Follow Allah and his Rasool”.. but your needle is stuck that you dont need to follow him.. quran is enough for you.”
Answer:
Did I say in any of my post that I have no need to follow Allah and his Rasool.
While I am quoting through out the ayat of Allah and the Qaul-e-Rasool-in- Karim.But you are not believing that and emphisizing to follow those Rivayaat which are clearly in the light of Biblical Concepts.
I accept all Rivayaat etc if these are in the Light of Quran not in the Light of Bible.
You said:”Allah is saying Muhammad (PBUH) is role model for us but you are saying that you are more intellectual and dont need to follow this role model. ”
Answer; Please don’t accuse.I ACCEPT HIM AS “FEE RASOOL ALLAH-E-USWATUN HASSNAH”.
Plaese reffer through which Book he should be followed Quran or Bible?
Please do not deviate from the Topic.Only answer me what I have asked?
You said:
“In short you are challenging Allah wordings and just following some bunch of misguided “parvaize” scholars… considering yourself more wise than Allah and his messenger(PBUH).”
Answer:100% ZUNN (GUMAAN) and Allegations.
Note:-I would be glad to discuss with you any suitable time in any chat room.
Waiting for your reply.
@Ayub:
You again skipped my actual questions. Why are you afraid of admitting that you donot offer salat like muslims,d o not fast, do not pay zakat, donot perform Hajj…like muslims. Donot eat halal(proper slaughtered) animals like other muslims do.. ???????
Ok I have “husn-e-zan” about you that you do all these things. But Muslims offer prayers, keep fasting, pay zakat based upon “stories”. Then are you not just following your fore father religion. There is no method of Salat given in Quran, so I cannot understand how your Salat is accepted which is based on “stories”?
Similarly for fasting. Apparently fasting means, to spend some time with out eating and drinking. But for how long, when should we start and when finish it?
Ramadhan month word is given in the Quran , but I couldnt find any thing when it starts ?.. Quran doesnt tell that, ok this month is now Ramadhan. Dont you think that the whole muslim ummat is fasting based on “stories”…?
Similarly for zakat,Muslim ummat has a consensus about it based on “stories” for 2.5 %. But how do you pay?. There is no method given in quran.
Surely, we started this topic on flogging issue, but since you presented your point of view neglecting Muhammad (PBUH) Sunnah, consensus and practice of muslim ummat through out the history, so first we have to talk about importance of Muhammad (PBUH) as a prophet. What is his role for ummat as prophet and why should we keep this role model in front of us while following the Quran? If prophet practice and sayings are a part of Islam or prophet was just to convey the word by word of Quran. If Allah message are just the words given in Quran or the the detailed explanations and practice of prophet of Muhammad(PBUH) is also part of his message?
I never found any thing in Sahih Ahadith against the Quran . Sahih hadiths are just the expalanations of Shariah which sometimes is not found on Quran .
Bible and Torah are also Allah books. If people have modified and distorted many things on those but you cannot claim that Muslims adopted such “things” from bible until you quote specific proof that how and when Muslims started adopting these things.
Many things are common between Quran and Torah, Quran and bible, so should it mean Muslims copied them from Torah?
Ayub Khan!
Arguing with munaafiqeen is like chasing shadows. They have no shame and no sense of morality – they will shift position, they will make contradictory statements and they will carry on endlessly in this shameless manner. They are the ones whose hearts and minds have been sealed.
You stand a better chance with those who may be sincere but who have read neither the Qur’an nor the “ahaadees”. In the hope that these people can be persuaded to break the spell that the mullahs have cast on them I am copying Dr Shabbir Ahmed’s “Criminals of Islam” below. This contains a number of salacious stories from “Sahih” Bukhari and numerous other sources.
The number of contradictions between the Qur’an and ‘hadees’ stories run into hundreds, possibly, thousands. The most distressing aspect of many of these stories is the way they belittle and dishonour the greatest man who ever lived on earth. This clearly shows the hands of Jews, Christians and pleasure-seeking Muslim kings behind those stories.
http://ourbeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/admin2/2007/08/criminals.pdf
fii amaan Allah
@ Aseer:
Is this Dr Shabbir a Prophet or Imam of your new sect?
I am astonished why all such “fitnas” are flourished and live in the west and USA?
If you think you are true, why you are afraid of confessing that you dont offer salat like other muslims do?
Instead of calling some one munafic or beating about the bushs, better if you could answer my questions.
http://www.youtube.com/DrShabbir1
I just watched your maulvi video. It is just bull shit. He is making fun of the important Islamic ritual of using right hand, but arguing by giving the name of all non muslim leaders in the past. For him all those “great” personalities were left handed. For him, the role models are the non muslims . Can he quote any of the muslim leader, warrior who was lefty?
@Aseer,
The most ridiculous part of all the munkareen hadith is that , they believe and quote all the other non islamic stories and events from history with lot of exaggerations and no authenticity but ironically they doubt and reject Sahih ahadith with out thinking a single moment, no matter how well sahih ahadith books were formulated after deep research and investigations..
I am astonished why doesnt your Maulvi shabbir doubt his mother character.. May be she had some secret affairs…After all he was not there when his father did sex with his mother and he was born. …
@Ayub @Aseer:
I know , you can never answer my straight forward questions, I asked you number of times above. So this debate is over.
aganza 75 SAID:
“Bible and Torah are also Allah books. ”
Answer:Thank you very much for telling me your forefathers Belief .Since you believe it Allah’s book then why were you feeling shame to accept that THE STONE TO DEATH is a BIBLICAL LAW and not the Quranic.Why don’t you Quote BIBLE to prove your point.Please be BOLD to quote BIBLE instead of any other BOOK.
ANSWER:-Where does Allah says that BIBLE is my Book?
The word Bible is derived from the Greek word biblia meaning “books”
and refers to the sacred writtings of Judaism and Christianity.
Torah :It means INSTRUCTION hebrew word.The first five Books of Bible are called TORAH.
If you read the whole discussion and the purpose of my article also was to high light the point that the STONE TO DEATH is a BIBLICAL concepts and there are other concepts are mixed in the name of Quran finally Masha Allah you also accepted in the END.
Salam un Alaik,Dear Brother Aseer,
[16.125] INVITE to the way of your Sustainer with WISDOM and BEAUTIFUL PREACHING, and have DEBATE with them in the best manner; surely your Sustainer best KNOWS those who go ASTRAY from His path, and He knows best those who follow the right way.
[16.126] And if you take your turn, then retaliate with the like of that with which you were afflicted; but if YOU are PATIENT, it will certainly BEST for those who are PATIENT.
[16.127] And be PATIENT and YOUR PATIENCE is not but by (the assistance of) Allah, and GRIEVE NOT FOR THEM, and do not distress yourself at what they plan.
Aseer said:”Arguing with munaafiqeen is like chasing shadows. They have no shame and no sense of morality – they will shift position, they will make contradictory statements and they will carry on endlessly in this shameless manner. They are the ones whose hearts and minds have been sealed.”
ANSWER:Dear brother do not give FATWA for any body.Because Allah says:
[60.7] It may be that Allah will bring about friendship between you and those whom you hold to be your enemies among them; and Allah is Powerful; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Salam un Alaikum to all of you brother and sisters.Thank you very much for your feed back on the article.If you want to further discuss you may email on mayub6@gmail.com, I would Insha Allah try my best to reply you.I am 24 hour connected through blackberry mobile service.THE END
M.Ayub Khan
I have read all these mails which were in responce to the article on Flogging from ayub. The original writer has posted excellent matter, but I don’t know why every one has lead the discussion astray off the subject. I take it as if many of you people are accusing ayub of being rejector of Hadith, where as ayub has many times denied this elegation and clearly stated that he accepts Sahih Hadith which is proven by Quran which is quite logical, do you think the vice versa and want to prove Quranic Ayat from Hadith. The fact of the matter is that when Allah S.W.T commands us to obey Him and His prophet pbuh He also tells us what His prophet preached. Please ponder into following Ayah;
2:129….. O’ our Lord raise amongst them messenger from them who recites over them Your AYAAT and teaches them Alkitab and Hikmah and purifies them; surely You are Powerful Wise.
This was the call/dua of Ibrahim pbuh which is the base of Allah’s deen. In this what duties have been assigned to the prophet Mohammed pbuh;
1- He has to recite Ayat of Allah
2- Teach The Book of Allah
3- Teach wisdom
4- Purifying the people
This will become a long topic but to cut short if we take the first two objectives then it is very clear that Mohammed pbuh recited only Ayaat of Allah and taught His Book and nothing else and nothing of his own as well. Quran is Kalam of Allah and Quaol of rasool-e-kareem, please read the following Ayaat;
69:40…. Surely that (Quran) is Qaol of rasool-en-kareem
…….
69:43…. Sent down from Lord of the universes
69:44…. Had he uttered something of his own over Us
69:45…. We must have caught him from his right
69:46…. We then would have cut his juggler vein
Now from the above ayaat one thing is for sure that prophet pbuh could not have said a single word which was not coforming to Allah’s book neither he could have said which was contradicting to Allah’s book. Then how can one imagine that prophet pbuh gave his judgement which is not proven by Allah’s book. Therefore stoning to death can not be ordered by Muhammed pbuh while he was supposed to give the judgement according to the Book of Allah.
Anything you declare being said by Muhammed pbuh must be Quaol-e-rasool therefore cannot be different or contradicting to kalam Allah. Therefore the stance of brother Ayub to accept the Hadith which conforms to Quran is right. Excellent brother ayub keep up the good work and post articles on other common issues as well for the education of common people
I have read all the posts and conclude, thatthe explanation of flogging by M.Ayub is based on Quranic aayats.
This would be sufficient fot a muslim who is believing in Allah’s only book Quran.
most of the posts have no any ayat in the support of thier arguments but only words other than ayats.
zia58 has posted following ayats in support of his stement
69:40…. Surely that (Quran) is Qaol of rasool-en-kareem
…….
69:43…. Sent down from Lord of the universes
69:44…. Had he uttered something of his own over Us
69:45…. We must have caught him from his right
69:46…. We then would have cut his juggler vein
@zia58 & @farrukh38:
Mashallah you have quoted an ayat “2:129….. O’ our Lord raise amongst them messenger from them who recites over them Your AYAAT and teaches them Alkitab and Hikmah and purifies them; surely You are Powerful Wise.”
Can you explain what is meant by ” teaches them Alkitab and Hikmah and purifies them”? How the Muslims of today world get those teachings.. Why allah has said “teaches” in addition to recitation of ayats..if recitation of ayats was not enough?
This ayat clearly tells that Messenger(PBUH) taught “some thing” to the early muslims in the light of Quran but the hadith rejectors say that they dont need such teachings of messenger and just the Koranic ayahs with out the backgrounds and interpretation taught by Muhammad enough for them..
This Ayat in fact proves the importance and existence of hadith. Ahadith are the part of Islam because the actions and sayings of Muhammad ( in ahadith) explain the true interpretation of Quran. secondly , Quran is not the qoal of Muhammad but Allah’s words. Mind it. ….
you claimed that you have read all the comments..ok , I believe.
I have raised number of questions above regarding fundamental virtues of Islam .. would you like to answer those with reference to Quran.
@aseer and @ ayub failed to answer, lets see how you can justify salat method (timings, rakat etc ), zakat amount, hajj method and fasting method etc from the Quran…
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