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Swat – a report from the frontline
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=177904
Recently an AIRRA (Aryana Institute for Regional Research and Advocacy – an Islamabad-based research organisation) investigation team went to some parts of Swat that had been under army attacks. The team observed whether the attacks were targeted at the Taliban and their installations. It observed two villages — Ladikas and Watkai in Mingora — and Khwazakhela, a tehsil in Swat. The team with its access to the people of the area could manage to take Besham route from Islamabad to reach Mingora via Khwazakhela. Though continuous curfew and alternate threats from the military posts and the Taliban posts badly hampered the journey of the team but somehow some of the members could manage to reach Mingora via Khwazakhela and Charbagh with the exodus of the people from different parts of Swat valley. The team was able to access and interview several dozens of those families who were still stuck up in the valley.
The team observed that the security forces have successfully destroyed the installations of the Taliban and have disrupted their chain of command in that area. They have killed many Taliban there with very little collateral damage, albeit with the destruction of civilian infrastructure. The best example is the Taliban headquarter in Khwazakhela. The headquarters was located on a mountain. It housed the Taliban operational command led by commander Yamin, the intelligence department led by commander Rashid and the department of logistics and supplies. The aerial bombardment of the Pakistan army reduced all that to rubble. The entire side of the mountain housing the headquarters has been exploded and razed.
The Taliban terrorists had established the headquarters with great efforts. They had cleansed a huge portion of the forest on the mountain to make free space for the building. They recruited the youth on a large scale, strengthened their command and control structure, established their hierarchical structure, planted mines on the main roads, dug bunkers and occupied the strategic passes in only two and a half months. And they did all this after the peace deal agreed with the NWFP government in February of this year.
The team interacted with the people in the area. Most of those killed were confirmed Taliban. There had been almost no serious collateral damage. Nearby buildings collapsed due to the force of explosions. Some people got injuries when hit by the collapsing debris.
Moreover, the army has cordoned off several narrow alleys of Mingora to prevent the Taliban from escaping. The military has cordoned off Swat from the northeast (the Shangla side), the southeast (the Buner side) and the southwest (the Dir side). In Mingora city itself, the Taliban are reported to be lying dead in the streets and local people confirm that some of them are well-known Taliban leaders.
There are still stranded people in Swat. The people are facing enormous difficulties due to power failure and water reservoirs in their homes which have dried up. Food commodities have become scarce and fuel stations have more or less stopped functioning. Soldiers of the Pakistan army and the FC are sharing their limited food rations with the stranded people. This goodwill gesture has earned respect of the stranded people for the security forces.
It is suggested to the army to issue the photos or video clips of the killed Taliban to the media and of the destroyed Taliban installations. Local people and the IDPs often know the Taliban and location of their installations. They would confirm that the dead were indeed the Taliban and the installations shown as destroyed indeed belonged to the Taliban. This is important because it will ensure transparency and reassure people of the success being achieved in the war.
It is highly commendable that the security forces are conducting targeted operations that have considerably damaged the Taliban in Swat. I would once again request the army high command to destroy the Taliban networks, installations, headquarters everywhere in Pakistan, including FATA and south Punjab. Taliban leaders in each and every city or town of Pakistan have to be neutralised. There is a strong connection between the Taliban in Waziristan, Orakzai, Swat, South Punjab, Khost and Kunar in terms of supply of manpower, weapons and chain of command. This connection is the Al Qaeda-linked Jalaluddin Haqqani and his terror secretariat in North Waziristan. This connection has to be broken, which means that Haqqani’s ‘secretariat’ must be destroyed. Other than the military front, the war against militancy also needs to be fought on the ideological battleground — Talibanisation needs to be denied ideological space in the country’s security and state apparatus and this can be done by targeting elements in state structures and institutions deemed as being sympathetic to the militants.
The army must carry the war against the Taliban to its logical end. The army owes it to the Pakhtun and by extension to Pakistan, because the Pakhtun are citizens of the country and hence deserve the same protection by the state as accorded to those in the other provinces. The Pakhtun have always taken pride in giving their best sons to the army. It is now the turn of the army to reciprocate in such a manner that truly honours the Pakhtun martyrs of the army. This means complete elimination of the Taliban so that the Pakhtun live their lives free of the jihadi fear and intimidation. If done successfully, this will bind the Pakhtun even more closely with the state and the army. In that context, the army must convert this war into an opportunity that will substantially contribute towards making Pakistan a successfully functioning multi-ethnic state.
While the army is rising itself to the occasion, the performance of the politicians is dismal. The soldiers are giving their blood to save us from the Taliban. They are sharing their limited food ration with the stranded people. The army has given a share of their salary to support the relief work for the IDPs. Where are political leaders? What is President Zardari doing abroad? He should be visiting the IDPs rather than foreign lands. What is Asfandyar Wali doing in London? Why is Afrasiab Khattak in Dubai? The IDPs constantly complain that the ministers, MPAs and MNAs only come when the media is there and leave soon afterwards, without tending to their (the IDPs) problems.
All MNAs and MPAs, especially those elected by the people of Swat, Dir and Buner, should stay with the IDPs of their respective constituencies as long as possible because these are after all the people who voted them into public office.
Lets start this thread with Taliban Khan’s politics.
http://jang.com.pk/jang/may2009-daily/16-05-2009/col6.htm
ps. I had every hard luck posting images, never worked for me
That’s so nice of CM of Panjab and Baluchistan, that’s the unity we need at this time of crises.
’پناہ گزینوں کے لیے آٹا پنجاب بھیجے گا‘
وزیر اعلی پنجاب شہباز شریف نے سرحد حکومت کو پیشکش کی ہے کہ وہ سوات کے پناہ گزینوں کے لیے تندور لگائیں اور ان کے لیے آٹا پنجاب حکومت فراہم کرے گی۔ انہوں نے کہا کہ وزیر اعلی سرحد نے صرف اشارہ کرنا ہے کہ روزانہ کی کیا ضرورت ہے اور پنجاب سے گندم پسوا کر آٹا مسلسل سپلائی کیا جائے گا۔
یہ بات وزیر اعلی پنجاب نے صوبہ سرحد میں پناہ گزینوں کے کیمپوں کے دورے کے دوران وزیر اعلی سرحد سے گفتگو کرتے ہوئے کہی۔
وزیر اعلی پنجاب اس وقت پنجاب میں سستے روٹی کے تندوروں کی سکیم چلا رہے ہیں اور ان مخصوص سستے تندروں پر دو روپے کی روٹی فروخت کی جاتی ہے۔
شہباز شریف نے وزیر اعلی سرحد امیر حیدر خان ہوتی کو کہا کہ وہ ایک ایسی رابط کمیٹی بنا دیں جس میں پنجاب اور سرحد کے حکام شامل ہوں اور یہ کمیٹی روزانہ کی بنیاد پر بتائے کہ پناہ گزینوں کی کھانے پینے کی کیا ضروریات ہیں اور پنجاب حکومت اور پنجاب کے عوام وہ چیزیں فراہم کریں گے۔شہباز شریف کا کہنا تھا کہ پنجاب کے عوام سوات کے متاثرہ بھائیوں کو اشیائے خورد ونوش فراہم کرنے کے لیے بے تاب ہیں۔
پنجاب کے وزیر اعلی شہباز شریف اور بلوچستان کے وزیر اعلی نواب اسلم رئیسانی پناہ گزینوں کے لیے امداد لےکر جمعہ کے روز ایک ساتھ صوبہ سرحد پہنچے، رسالپور ائر بیس پر وزیر اعلی سرحد امیر حیدر ہوتی نے ان کا استقبال کی۔ اس موقع پر بلوچستان کے وزیر اعلی نواب اسلم رئیسانی نے پناہ گزینوں کے لیے چھ کروڑ روپے کی امداد کا اعلان کیا۔
وزیر اعلی پنجاب نے کہا کہ تین صوبوں کے وزرائے اعلی کی موجودگی اس بات کا ثبوت ہے کہ تمام صوبے پاکستان کی بقا کی خاطر اور دربدر ہونے والے پاکستانی بھائیوں کی مدد کے لیے متحد ہیں۔انہوں نے کہا کہ بلوچستان کی اپنے معاشی مسائل کے باوجود چھ کروڑ روپے امداد اس بات کا ثبوت ہے کہ وہ سرحد اور پاکستان کے عوام سے کس قدر محبت کرتے ہیں۔ وزیر اعلی پنجاب نے اعلان کیا کہ سرحد کے متاثرین کو پنجاب کے تعلیمی اداروں میں پناہ دی جائے گی۔ انہوں نے کہا کہ صوبے کے سکولوں اور کالجوں میں گرمیوں کی چھٹیاں ہونے والی ہیں اور انہوں نے وزیر اعلی سرحد کو کہا ہے کہ وہ پناہ گزینوں کی رجسٹریشن کر کے ان کو پنجاب بھجواتے جائیں جہاں انہیں تعلیمی اداروں میں رکھا جائے گا۔
وزیراعلی پنجاب نے اشیائے خوردونوش سے بھرے ایک سو چھپن ٹرک صوبے سرحد کے حوالے کیے۔ شہبام شریف ایران کےتین روزہ دورے کے بعد لوٹے تھے لیکن لاہور جانے کی بجائے اسلام آباد سے براہ راست مردان میں پنا گزینوں کے کیمپ پہنچے۔وزیر اعلی شہباز شریف نے مزدور آباد تخت بائی مردان میں مہاجروں کے ایک کیمپ کا بھی دورہ کیا اور پناہ گزینوں سے ان کی مشکلات پوچھیں۔
ye shafqat mahmood kyon Imran ke pechay par gaya hai. Idher uske mukhalif kam hain pehlaay :p
For all of those who are against Taliban and favouring army operation, please visit the IDP camps and listen to the people what they say about Taliban and army. Eveyone is blaming Politicians and generals for this mess. Their hearts are still with talibans.because, in almost every family atleast one person has joined taliban. It is in the nature of a pashtoon , that he takes revenge from his enemy, and a dangerous situation is developing in these camps. People are thinking of taking revenge from those responsibe for their condition.
Taliban might not reach Islamabad, but these people are just 70 km from Islamabad.
If in 2 million people , only .2 million start marching towards Islamabad, it will be very difficult for anyone to control them.
@AH
Must be desperation setting in to offer “truths” from the NGO AIRRA. They have been so active to have put out one stup!d paper over their whole existence (and managed to link to twelve more on the web)
And how melodramtic:
“…Recently an AIRRA (Aryana Institute for Regional Research and Advocacy – an Islamabad-based research organisation) investigation team went to some parts of Swat that had been under army attacks. The team observed whether the attacks were targeted at the Taliban and their installations. It observed two villages — Ladikas and Watkai in Mingora — and Khwazakhela, a tehsil in Swat. The team with its access to the people of the area could manage to take Besham route from Islamabad to reach Mingora via Khwazakhela. Though continuous curfew and alternate threats from the military posts and the Taliban posts badly hampered the journey of the team but somehow some of the members could manage to reach Mingora via Khwazakhela and Charbagh with the exodus of the people from different parts of Swat valley….”
Fvcking amazing.
Even ISPR wouldn’t be caught dead with stuff like this:
“…The team observed that the security forces have successfully destroyed the installations of the Taliban and have disrupted their chain of command in that area. They have killed many Taliban there with very little collateral damage, albeit with the destruction of civilian infrastructure. The best example is the Taliban headquarter in Khwazakhela. The headquarters was located on a mountain. It housed the Taliban operational command led by commander Yamin, the intelligence department led by commander Rashid and the department of logistics and supplies. The aerial bombardment of the Pakistan army reduced all that to rubble. The entire side of the mountain housing the headquarters has been exploded and razed….”
Geez! Blowing up half a mountain just to blow up a small building? Isn’t that a bit overkill?? Waste of Ammo???
“The Taliban terrorists had established the headquarters with great efforts. They had cleansed a huge portion of the forest on the mountain to make free space for the building. They recruited the youth on a large scale, strengthened their command and control structure, established their hierarchical structure, planted mines on the main roads, dug bunkers and occupied the strategic passes in only two and a half months. And they did all this after the peace deal agreed with the NWFP government in February of this year.”
This is so bloody funny I don’t know what to focus on. “Taliban terrorists”? Even americans dont use the two terms together. How unbiased an approach. “Established the headquarters with great efforts. They had cleansed a huge portion of the forest on the mountain to make free space for the building.”? That the least any one would do i.e. clear space before building a building. “They recruited the youth on a large scale, strengthened their command and control structure, established their hierarchical structure, planted mines on the main roads, dug bunkers and occupied the strategic passes in only two and a half months. And they did all this after the peace deal agreed with the NWFP government in February of this year.” What the hell does this even mean? “The deal” hardly lasted two and a half days let alone two and a half months.
“The team interacted with the people in the area. Most of those killed were confirmed Taliban. There had been almost no serious collateral damage. Nearby buildings collapsed due to the force of explosions. Some people got injuries when hit by the collapsing debris.”
WTF? Are these the kind of “facts” you hold to be absolute truths?
I’ll leave the rest for someone else to comment on as I don’t want to have all the fun. There are so many jewels left e.g. “I would once again request the army high command to destroy the Taliban networks, installations, headquarters everywhere in Pakistan, including FATA and south Punjab.” (Thanks, AIRRA. Army would be lost without you!)
^^^
And shame on The News for publishing this AIRRA crap!
@nota
Maybe the rest of the ‘fun’ is a waste of time
There is no such thing as “waste of ammo” in a war, unless you are running out of supplies. The point is to kill the enemy, and you use the firepower at your disposal.
Here’s your kashif abbasi who usually acts like a super hero in the studio, scared like a chicken from the sound of artillery fire.
Got to 6:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0y2KBjIj_Q
@Shikuh
Indeed…
@Wahid
Lock up and load…..
You sir are so right
You no nothing about war or the miltiary, but do know a lot about posting on the internet. We’ll be sure to take tour advice.
@Wahid
What are you trying to prove? It is but natural.
This is a natural response from an ordinary man who is not exposed to such activities.
Why don’t you go there and prove that you are a Tarzan?
Kuch nahi milta likhnay k leay tau yehi sahi.
@nota and Shirkuh.
I will post the horrific stories from here once I get back to Islamabad.
@Wahid
BTW: Is it “Go after Kashif Abbasi” day?
I do have an issue with Kashif (him being “embedded” and only presenting one side of the story) but “scared like a chicken from the sound of artillery fire” is hardly an issue.
Am I to presume you are a “brave soul” who’s not “scared like a chicken from the sound of artillery fire”? You are one tough cookie
@Wahih Jamma
“You no nothing about war or the miltiary, but do know a lot about posting on the internet. We’ll be sure to take tour advice.”
And you sir might think you know a lot about war or the miltiary, but you know nothing about posting on the internet. Need some advise?
BTW: What are you doing on the net? Don’t you know there is a bloody war going on where your boom-boom arse is much needed??
@pak.nukes
“I will post the horrific stories from here once I get back to Islamabad.”
But AIRRA told us everything we need to know already
France offers civilian N-deal modelled on US-India accord
What’s the point? Didn’t we already cut out nuke budget by 35% or more? So now “supposedly” (see below) we have a deal for which there is no possibility of paying for anything (unless of course the money is taken out of our remaining 65% of the nuke budget)
I said “supposedly” because the story goes on to explain:
“Sarkozy’s office would not comment on Qureshi’s statements, and any such deal, while a diplomatic coup for Zardari, would need the agreement of other nuclear powers [India, Israel, US among them] and the United Nations nuclear watchdog, the IAEA.”
In other words, the jokes on you
@nota
But I am Taliban agent with designer stuff……you have to listen ti my ‘disinformation’ too.
BTW It was so funny that Sarkozy did not bring Carla along to meet Zardari…..How could he forget Sarah Palin?
Children are de-hydrated here and deaths will occur if not treated urgently. ORS is needed but then clean water is impossible to get.
@pak.nukes
“Children are de-hydrated here and deaths will occur if not treated urgently. ORS is needed but then clean water is impossible to get.”
If the following is the case in Sector G-7 Islamabad, i can well imagine….:
“…The camp has been set up on a plot that was formerly a dumping site. In fact, these IDPs are living on top of a dumpster with a gutter running over the camp…ulsoom, looking ill, intercepted: ‘I have a breathing problem and we don’t even have a proper latrines here’. They live in a wretchedly unhygienic area. No access to clean drinking water, they wear soiled, not old clothes. There’s dust in the air and the heat is unrelenting. Used to the clear and cool air of Swat, they not only are having to adapt to the new weather, but a host of illnesses borne out of their filthy surrounding areas. Bugs of all types including flies are roaming in a filth-infested area right in the midst of the camp. Within ten minutes of meeting them I already have two huge mosquito bites. ‘You cannot imagine how many mosquitoes are in the tent at night,’ she tells me with eyes wide open, as I scratch my own arm. ‘The children are developing strange skin problems. It’s because of this gutter that’s running along the camp,’ tells an NGO volunteer. The camp has already seen a delivery, an asthmatic patient, a man who suffered of heart attack, a child who has recently been diagnosed with blood cancer and a woman who suffered post-natal bleeding after she gave birth to her child in the camp without a doctor.
President Asif Ali Zardari’s sister MNA Faryal Talpur has donated these tents to the IDPs, but they are substandard and hardly worth living in. It’s too difficult to justify why our own states fat cats can’t provide decent living areas for victims of this man-made disaster …”
^^^
from http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/16-nosheen-abbas-prelude-to-a-long-fight-659-hs-09
@nota
Furyal Chaudhrian ki jitni auqaat hai woh ussi standard ka donation dey gi even from sarkari khazana.
Time Cover story: Why Pakistan failed itself
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1898251,00.html
@Jamhooriat
I am just reading it and am not surprised we have Pervaiz Yahoodboy spreading his venom and his lies:
Now anyone with any knowledge of their history knows this qaida he is pulling out was the work of CIA (was it late 70′s or early 80′s?) ehen they first came out?? They have admited it and I believe I do have a copy of it somewhere that I found on the net long ago.
Let me read on and bet you I’ll find Ahmed Rashid in there too with his pearls of wisdom….
Ahha! I told you. He is right there after Yahoodboy:
Of course, as expected, he goes on to say “Don’t blame India or anyone else. It’s you, and you alone!”:
Let’s see what other usual suspects are there….
Dawn has a story on the same lines as the Aryana ‘research’ story or should call it a fairytale posted by @AH.
A major (I think) Athar Abbas is giving ‘credible’ statements like Taliban are running from the battle field. To flee from PAK mercinary forces they are cutting their hair and shaving their beards. What a statement……..are beards not grown (commonly)by non-Talibans too?
I am glad the next three are some Dr. Riaz , Ahsan Iqbal, and Shireen Mazari:
But will Time leave it at that? No way, Jose…Ahmed Rashid and Aitezaz are there to counter:
This is followed by some one liners (or two) by some Samina Ahmed of the International Crisis Group and Wajiha Ahmed, a Pakistani-American graduate student at the Fletcher School of Tufts University
@nota
And still people want us to read Ahmed Rashid the favorite of BBC.
@Shirkuh
Yeah I saw that in the morning and laughed out loud…Of course i didn’t bother the front-page featured “feel-good” story. The headline is something like “Taliban ‘shaving beards’ to flee Swat: army’ to flee Pakistan army”
Of course Daily Times carries it as well
Two other interesting ones:
“Govt offers talks if Taliban lay down arms”
Why? I thought the battle was “to the end” “at any cost”
“People urged to identify fleeing Taliban”
@Shirkuh
How dare you question Ahmed Rashid? I believe he is “most brilliant journalist” according to his “fans”…
BTW: Did you catch this one by Irfan Hussain? Does it remind you of something?? No surprise MEMRI and PIPF think alike
BTW:
The photo essay “Pakistan Beneath the Surface” is an interesting one as well. (Guess which is “a large socially liberal party”?)
I am having to break my promised silence. What I am seeing on the TV screen is the worst tragedy that our country has suffered. I did not witness East Pakistan but I am sure this is worse.
I admit I was wrong after all. I did not realise supporting Army action will unfold such human tragedy.
And for God sake someone start marching towards Swat and the refugee camps even with an empty truck.
@NOTA,
I WILL PAY FOR WHATEVER YOU NEED FOR THIS CAMPAIGN.
Please contact me at taukeer(at)aim.com
@savage
Please stop name calling.
@Tauqeer
What we are witnessing is only the beginning of the disaster. I am afraid it will get a lot worse
@Shirkuh
I said those very words in my speech at PIMS Islamabad when every one was busy self congatulating and patting each other’s back after the earthquake.
Mr 10% busy in his business. He does not care how people are suffering in swat and rest of Pakistan.
Kab tak aise loag hum pe hakoomat karte rahein ge???????????
Article:
ISLAMABAD: The Foreign Office has agreed to sell part of its valuable Kart-i-Parwan estate in Kabul to Britain.
‘It has been agreed in principle that Pakistan will sell half of the property to Britain,’ diplomatic sources told Dawn on Friday.
Pakistan’s Ambassador to Kabul Mohammad Sadiq confirmed that negotiations were under way with the British authorities. The 24-acre Kart-i-Parwan estate is considered to be one of the most prestigious assets in the Afghan capital.
It housed Pakistan’s embassy till 1995 when it was ransacked by a mob. The mission then moved to a rented property in another part of the city because of security reasons, but the government decided to retain the compound for future use.
The British government expressed interest in buying the compound in 2006. Despite Pakistan’s refusal it continued to pursue the matter with Pakistani leaders.
Britain had initially offered $25 million for the property. When the Foreign Office formally declined last year to sell the land, the British High Commission reacted by saying that London would be ‘highly disappointed’.
The British government made several proposals, including the splitting of the property and a swap with the British-owned Bulgarian embassy complex.
According to official documents, all the proposals were rejected by former president Pervez Musharraf on the premise that the prestigious estate would be an asset when security situation improved and it would save nearly $1 million annually in rent.
Moreover, it was argued that the amount offered by the British authorities was not adequate to find suitable alternative premises for the embassy.
According to sources, President Asif Ali Zardari was amenable to the British offer, but the Foreign Office dragged its feet.
The British high commissioner in Islamabad is said to have complained to President Zardari on at least three occasions about what it called inflexibility of the Foreign Office.
Ambassador Sadiq said the resistance was part of the traditional standpoint of holding on to the property. The Foreign Office eventually succumbed to pressures from the presidency and agreed to negotiate the sale, the sources said.
Source: Dawn.com 16-5-09
Can’t claim now that Pak mercenary army dun know how to fight in the area, mujhaid-e-azam has spoken:p
Sorry I know i said goodbye to the site couldn’t resist this piece of gem;)
Pak army has facilities for counter insurgency training: Army Chief
RAWALPINDI: Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani reacting to the comments on Low Intensity Conflict (LIC ) Training of Pakistani troops said Pakistan Army has developed a full range of counter insurgency training facilities tailored to train troops for such operations.
In a statement the COAS said: “Except for very specialized weapons and equipment, high technology, no generalized foreign training is required.”
Owing to its vast experience, Pakistan Army remains the best-suited force to operate in its own area. Uncalled for aspersions through various quarters on our training methods / orientation is apparently due to lack of knowledge and understanding of our training system in vogue, he said.
Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani reaffirmed that strategic decisions regarding where, when and how many troops are deployed in each operation or sector is always a Pakistani decision based on objective analysis and our full understanding of threat spectrum.
These decisions are undertaken in accordance with our national interest by our leadership keeping in view the aspirations of people of Pakistan. Any outside advice/subjective comments towards this end is counter productive and divisive in effect rather than helpful.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=77825
As an inducement to others we are sending funds to Al-Khidmat foundation from europe. We are having to use personal contacts etc to get the money to them.
Those allergic to JI please refer to Yesterday’s Bolta Pakistan and Nusrat Javeed’s comments about on the ground presence of organistations.
Could someone ask Al-Khidmat Foundation to please setup a credit card or Paypal Account. I am afraid I not aware of the down sides of this mechanism.
BTW my offer to Nota is my personal offer and not on behalf of any group or organisation.
Taliban infiltration in Hazara district
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=22163
On Thursday, militants set fire to the Batta Mori Police checkpost in Battagram and took away arms. Reports said over 150 armed militants entered the checkpost and tied up the four policemen there. The militants wanted to behead the cops after torturing them. But they spared their lives after making them swear that they would quit their jobs.
Before leaving, the militants torched the post and took the police rifles and other valuables with them. The post had been set up to check the movement of militants in the district.After the incident, a police contingent reached the spot and shifted the injured policemen, Bahadar Shah, Abdul Waheed, Attaullah and Mohammad Fahad to a local hospital.
Acting District Police Officer Battagram Sher Mohammad said the militants were equipped with sophisticated weapons, including rocket launchers. He said some locals were also involved in the incident.
@Tauqeer Akbar
I have contacted alkhidmat and suggested online donations, but thier reply was to sent me again bank info. http://www.islamic-relief.com/ is the one am donating, they are accepting donations from thier sites in uk, usa and canada respectively i.e u have to go to country site to donate.
Just found the link to the account details of Al Khidmat foundation including foreign currency accounts.
http://al-khidmatfoundation.org/donate-here.php
And I as I theorised earlier Swat is a diversion. The enemy is going to attck elsewhere. Will it be the nuclear assets, Baluchistan, or our starategic interests in Afghanistan.
@razaafzaal
Thanks. Please let us mobilise pakistanis in Europe. I ashamed to ask my Non Pakistani friends. YES I am ashamed of asking Non Pakistanis.
Let each one of us call at least their Pakistani Friends. And let us put a minimum limit of 500 Euros.
I don’t know any Pakistani in Europe who could not at least afford that amount.
ISPR said that 23 Foreign militants are killed. Did any body have seen their pictures/Video or info. How hard it is for ISPR to up load that info? At least start from these foreign militants and then later release info about other militants. This will automatically increase public support for the army. Instead, they want public to support the military action blindly.
@Tauqeer Akbar
I had posted some compiled info rearding relief activities and diferent organsations working there inlcuding contacts info etc. here
http://pkpolitics.com/2009/05/08/visitors-views-news-week-2-may-2009/#comment-209131
@pakwatan12
> For all of those who are against Taliban and favouring army operation, please visit the IDP camps and listen to the people what they say about Taliban and army. Eveyone is blaming Politicians and generals for this mess.
What media (local and international) is showing is quite opposite to what you just said.
>Their hearts are still with talibans.because, in almost every family atleast one person has joined taliban.
Lets calculate, estimated IDPs are 13,00,000, assuming average family size is 6 person, that would be 13,00,000/6=2,16,666. In other words only in Swat there are more than 2 lakh militants, 1/3rd of our active army!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you are scaring us man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Savage
What is family in Pakistan? I think you are miscalculating and misunderstanding the “family” term. Maybe you should think of a “khandaan”, which is normally much more than 6 persons.
@All
Now why would the Govt do this:
@MEMRIBo
“Taliban infiltration in Hazara district”…
Blah, blah, blah. So you are still peddling this stuff (Amir Hameed did even better above)?
I posted a ton of comments today and I get no YouTube/Photoshop from you?? ….
BTW: You missed this:
Militants extend activities to Battagram
http://thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=22163
@Jamhooriat
Thanks
I should have posted my comments here but I posted in ‘kul tuk’ thread.
Posting again here.
@Tauqeer Akbar,nota,Shirkuh,razakhan and all taliban lovers.
I have just returned from Mardan and I have to tell you things that baboons will find fascinating and sure will derive pleasure from.
Phew..Where to start from?
There were no toilets so people have to go behind the so-called tents or boxes of relief goods needless to say there is no water for toilet use.
The Grand and Pompous Pakistan army was not to be seen anywhere except for a couple of water tankers which were half empty. It definitely was contaminated, welcoming Hepatitis and typhoid. A few NGO workers looked active only for the cameras around. Most relief goods were brought in by private people from Islamabad in their own cars. I did not see any political party workers there. (May be they were in some other camp.)
Older women were running high blood pressure, much complaint that they were on medications which they left at home. One old woman ,who could hardly get up, said that she wished to die at her home rather than come here and die like this.
Children and infants looked frightened and anguished; I gave them basket balls to play but they didn’t seem interested. A 7 year old girl told me that she feels very hot and wants to go back home. Her rosy cheeks had mosquito bites all over. Pregnant women had no idea what would happen to them especially those who were in their last trimester. Teenage girls were kept in parachute tents which are hot like hell, their grievance embarrassed me, they wanted sanitary napkins. I did take a huge supply with me but it was not enough. They had no clothes or towels or soaps or any basic necessity.
I am seeing funds and money pouring in from different countries and places but we all know where it will go…we still remember the 2005 earth quake, where did that money go, no one knows.
The army and Zardari government did not think twice before evacuating these poor people from their homes. All jurnails and bloody politicians should open their houses and keep at least 20 families each till the operation completes. Baboons of pkpolitics should once visit albeit for photos, they will know what displacement means. I am disgusted with these people who sit in their glass homes talking rubbish and obsessed with others’ blackberries and iphones and @$$es and bu-tts , they should go to these relief camps and see those bu-tts that have unbearable rashes that appeared due to constant contact with faeces because they do not have water to wash or clean. Bu—tts in abundance should make them happy and their ego satisfied.
Please please help them but do not trust anyone. Give them whatever you want to in person or through your relatives or friends.
I will upload some pictures later and write details tomorrow after I visit Swabi.
@ Amir Hameed I wish what AIRRA said is right but I have few doughts.
1. Fisrt of all their enterance to the war zone is suspiciuos. Why they did not make a video of their journey?
2. They interviewed dozens of families of Mangoora etc. on a piece of paper. No camera interviews again.
3. A lot of Talibans/ militants were killed and very little colateral damage. Thats why we felt not to make a video.
4. Talibans/ militants cleared huge portion of forest on the mountain to bilud a building. They were very stupid Talibans/ militants they took away the natural camouflage for their headquater. Did they build a huge Target sign on the building. Donot miss us hit us hard. Anyway no video.
5. Talibans/ mlitants were lying dead on the streets of mangoora and the local people confirmed the news. Uopn confirmation from the locals we thought there is no need of a video. So we did not make a video of local people confirming ceremony nor we bothered to video tape Well- Known Taliban leaders dead on the streets of mangoora.
6. Army and FC and sharing their LIMITED FOOD RATION with locals. Why army and FC have LIMITED resources especially food. Are we fighting war about 5000 km from Pakistan.
Army donot have secure supply line. Army donot have C130 / Helicopters/ roads and trucks etc to provide quick support to army and locals. WHO IS WRITING THESE STUPID STORIES.
7. It is suggested to the army (Since they donot know) to show photos and video clips of dead talibans/ militants to the independent media. You see how good our reputation is that we suggested them but we did not take photos or video clips. ISPR said today that 23 Foreign militants were killed. Khuda ka liya>>>Khuda ka liya>>>Khuda ka liya >>at least show their photos or video clips.
8. everyone knows the connections between talibans and the rest of the World especially US govt./ CIA/ KGB / RAW/ Mossad .
9. Rest everyone knows about BEGGER and other politicians.
AIRRA bhai sahiboos let me ask you one question. You forgot your cameras/Video cameras at home or lost all the cameras during your hectic journey. or you already have planned to take only NOTES OR DICTATION. BHAI SAHIBOO YA YEAR 2009 HA. NOT 1909.
@Shirkuh said:
“@Savage
What is family in Pakistan? I think you are miscalculating and misunderstanding the “family” term. Maybe you should think of a “khandaan”, which is normally much more than 6 persons.”
And why even “guess” when the numbers are known and I posted them earlier from here
@nota
From Tufaan Husain’s article in “Dawn in Maghreb”:
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/16-irfan-husain-the-taliban-as-the-borg-659-hs-04
“Just like the Borg, the Taliban are an implacable foe in their unreasoning drive to assimilate or annihilate all in their path. So certain are they of their monopoly on the one truth that they are not willing to contemplate the possibility of different approaches, different beliefs. And just like the Borg, it is impossible to reason or negotiate with the Taliban. It’s all or nothing for these stone-age warriors. ”
The first part in bold: Tufaan sahib, are you not in the same category? That you imported “maghrebi-truth” is the only “truth”?
The second part in bold characters: That must be a “tribute” to you masters=Americans and the mercenary PAK forces. Why can’t the defeat these stone age warriors?
Maybe you need to think of a DIFFERENT approach too! Don’t get stuck in quicksand forever. Do come out of “filmi dunya” and renew yourself with an indigenous DESI thought!
I have been suggesting the following structure to all my friends in Europe
Form a Group of 10 People. Choose one among you as the chair and collect your donations and pass them on to responsible organisation. This will help induce people to making donations. Spent the morning on the phone just doing that.
The first such group has already collected donations of nearly Euros 6000 or 600,000 Pak Rupees.
We have called Al-Khidmat foundation to make a commitment about this money. We will be using Western Union to transfer for speed of transmission.
Each group may pass their donations to a responsible organisations they are satisfied will get to the deserving.
Please avoid donating to individuals. We learnt at the time of the Earth Quake that donation in this manner was not effective.
@nathoo bawarchi
haha…LOL…*ZING!!!*
This is the EXACT same article that I had linked to
Its so easy to trap you, dumb weasel that you are. If only you had some functioning grey matter between your ears and had bothered to READ something.
Just goes to show you are losing your linkbombing powers too. Crank up your Majoon Jalinoos quota, will you
This video encapsulates your whole existence.
Enjwaye!!!
@pak.nukes
As I wrote to @Tauqeer. This is (unfortunately) only the beginning. I am afraid it will get much worse. This “policy” is unfortunately one of many other fatal policies of our military. To mention a few of them, which is still inflicting blows to Pakistan.
- The mess in Bangladesh
- The way the afghan refugee issue was handled. I especially referring to the drVgs and @rms pouring into Pakistan.
- The creation of MQM.
- And now the fight against Taliban on American terms.
@Shirkuh said:
“@nota
From Tufaan Husain’s article in “Dawn in Maghreb”:”
Why do you think I pointed it out earlier?
And did you revisit the comment of our resident “Tufaan Husain” along similar lines also linked above?
@Shirkuh
You have not taken apart any of Irfan Hussain’s arguments except for making an emotional appeal based on pride/ethnicity/background. That may be enough for the most common denominator public: the low IQ one, but you can do better. Point out exactly what bothers you about the article on a logical level without descending into orgiastic paroxysms of ‘maghrebi’ or ‘indiginous DESI thought’
If Irfan Hussain supports democracy, does it necessarily follow that the ‘pure’ musssssulmaaan brothers ought to support the throat-sliters? Where is the middle space? Where is common sense.
Incidentally, I have a beef with Irfan Hussain too.
He stole my idea from 2 weeks ago. DAMN You Irfan Hussain !!!
http://pkpolitics.com/2009/04/27/discuss-are-talibans-pakistani-wmds/#comment-200595
@nota,
“….Amir Hameed did even better above….”
May be you should try to comment without try to be sarcastic because all it does it exposes you more and nothing more. I will leave it at this for now.
trying (that is)
@mbokhari
There is a time and place for humour. I am sure you are very funny person but I am sorry I am not in the mood to enjoy your humour right now. If you don’t have anything constructive to contribute then please go out in the street. Hire a truck and Fill it with stuff and bring it to the refugees
If we fail, there will be 1.5million” Taliban” that we will have to deal with and then your friend’s predictions about Pakistan being on the werge of collapse might come true.
Before you post another Video please consider my words as those of a friend.
100% agree with @Shirkuh post above regarding army.
@Amir Hameed
“May be you should try to comment without try to be sarcastic ”
But I DID comment on it and in DETAIL!
http://pkpolitics.com/2009/05/16/visitors-views-news-week-3-may-2009/#comment-210184
@MEMRIBo
Ah — See now you are talking. I was waiting for your “youtube to the rescue” bit. By the way you did not answer the “peddling” bit…
@nota
—
…“The deal” hardly lasted two and a half days let alone two and a half months….”
And why do you think that the deal hardly lasted for two and a half days? Who was responsible for sabotaging it? What would have happened if it (deal) was given more time?
@Amir Hameed
That’s IT???? Wow!
@nota
—
@nota,
“….Amir Hameed did even better above….”
—
Then what did you mean by this comment?
@Tauqeer Akbar
I appreciate your concern but you have to realize that a sense of humor is an essential ingredient for sanity. A certain linkbombing troll who has nothing to say likes to hang out here, linkbombs and tries to derail the process of consensus building by using darty darty language
I assert that using darty darty language by darty old buddhas is more damaging to a civilized conversation than a little satire:
http://pkpolitics.com/2009/05/08/visitors-views-news-week-2-may-2009/#comment-209423
The linkbomber had taken a nap yesterday after his darty-bombing and the debate progresses splendidly with me, GoTK, shimatoree and gv:
http://pkpolitics.com/2009/05/08/visitors-views-news-week-2-may-2009/#comment-209721
@Amir Hameed
The extent of @nathoo bawachi’s intellectual input to the conversation is:
http://pkpolitics.com/2009/05/16/visitors-views-news-week-3-may-2009/#comment-210184
LOL…He DID comment on it and in DETAIL, but by copy-pasting interspersed with gems like “duh!”, “funny you should mention….” and “duh!”
@mbokhari
I know you and some others have an allergic reaction, when the terms Maghreb-zadah, baboo etc. is used. In this case the guns were not aimed at you (personally).
I tell you, I can’t stand people like Irfan Husain. Most of the time I find him in another world in terms of finding solutions for Pakistani problems/issues. His body is in Pakistan and he needs to buy a one way ticket for his brain to be rejoined with his body. Otherwise he will keep on finding too “sophisticated” solutions for simple “problems/issues”. We cannot adopt or import each and every western idea to our society. Inspiration is fine, but imitation is not acceptable. We need to find OUR solutions for OUR problems.
Your IQ-meter have no say on what I choose to write. If you want to have a debate, then it’s all fine on equal terms. I don’t believe in “the more books read the more reason in the arguments”. In my world to have knowledge is not necessarily the same as having wisdom. I sincerely hope you can use YOUR good brain and knowledge in a wise way. The recent debate about the Taliban nature must have been an eye opener for most of us including you. I think there was enough reason and wisdom to change the course of thought i.e. how should the problems with Taliban be handled. I think you also admitted that the debate was quite interesting and educative. In my mind there was almost consensus on the issue that Talibanisation of the concerned area is not a solution according to anyone (nor you and nor us). What we still are “fighting” over is how to handle the issue. I am amazed that you still haven’t shown any sympathy towards the poor IDP’s. The IDP’s are facing an inhumane environment. Show mercy on yourself and at least accept that these IDP’s are no less than DISASTER!
Btw: I think you have totally misunderstood the “support” of Taliban. I am NOT a Taliban supporter! Our differences are primarily about how to tackle the issue!
@Pak.Nukes thanks for the update. Just saw it now. Good work and keep it up.
@Shirkuh
Thanks for the recap. My point exactly. The ‘allergic reaction’ you mention is in response to sheer idiocy and an appeal to emotions as opposed to reason. I respect your opinion whenever it is logically argued.
About the IDPs: I have come to agree with @shimtoree a great deal. He is spot-on about the Taliban being hated by them but the window of time being brief. I think the most pragmatic solution to the IDP problem was given by CM Hoti today where he said a transitioned approach will be adopted. The fresh IDPs will be provided hot meals in ‘fresher’ camps and then moved into semi-permanent camps. These semi-permanent camps can be set up in Punjab’s colleges which are going to have summer vacations. I have yet to see a detailed proposal for this suggestion but I think it makes the most sense.
The food and shelter issue of IDP is the most pressing issue today. But the pressing issue of tomorrow is how to repatriate them back to their villages. Preparations and planning for that MUST start now. This will involve a comprehensively new police strategy for Swat and FATA and investigating proposals like whether retired army personnel from NWFP can be used to hold the area in a paramilitary configuration immediately after the area has been cleared.
I am waiting for @shimtoree to discuss how and if community policing can be implemented in Buner/Shangla and other vulnerable districts.
@Mbokhari
“I have yet to see a detailed proposal for this suggestion but I think it makes the most sense.”
You see here is the BIG problem. There was NO plan to handle the IDP issue. All the preparations should have been ready in advance. That could have been a factor in favor of the government/PAK army, but they missed on this one too, because their eagerness to show how “effective” they are as a mercenary force. Here I am referring to Zardaris tour to the West.
“But the pressing issue of tomorrow is how to repatriate them back to their villages. Preparations and planning for that MUST start now.”
This is exactly how it should be, but honestly speaking I don’t think it will happen. Our politicians at large are NOT able to think about in depth solutions. The history is a witness
And before we are going to see the repatriation mess, then we have to witness the climax of the current disaster.
@all
The scenario of the coming disasters is far to grave. My appeal is : Let’s keep on track and stop the blame game from both side….. PLEASE!
@Tauqeer Akbar
excellent idea. The student organization that I am involved in, in my city is doing something similar. We fortunately have a senior member who comes from the area. Our organization is going to hold a charity benefit at the university and the proceeds will be transferred by the member who is from the war zone.
This idea can be applied to Pakistani student organizations in the West. But students are poor and broke and have little disposable income.
What needs to be covered next is: organizing Pakistani and other Muslim small business owners using mosque networks, ICNA/ISNA, CAIR etc to pool the community resources together. The Pizza joint owners, doner shop owners etc can each donate at least 200 euros easy. A perfect time for this would be Jumma prayers in community mosques and this is where we as Pakistanis, students or otherwise, can make a difference. A small presentation if possible, or a bunch of leaflets/brochures need to be prepared in the target community’s language. Information dissemination at the Jumma prayers can be done right before the Salaat and the volunteers can man the exit area for collection.
Other ideas guys?
@Shirkuh
This was exactly the same during the earthquake but the common Pakistani rose to the challenge. The same can be done now. Corruption is a way of life in Pakistan can never be eliminated. So, we learn to live with it.
I really hope some TV channel starts emergency broadcasting and fund raising by suspending their regular programming. Kind of like what Channel One and Fakhre Alam did in Karachi at PAF museum (I think)
We here at pkpolitics can generate ideas, if not the funds. For this we need to debate and argue and build consensus. This can only happen if reason and logic are used and no time is wasted on ritualistic displays of outrage and emotional anarchy.
Also, darty bombers need to be mocked
@MEMERIBo
“We here at pkpolitics can generate ideas, if not the funds.”
Brilliant! Feed the hungry with ideas…..
heheheehe
@nathoo bawarchi is at it with his usual brilliant commentary and sabotage of serious dialogue again
@nathoo baba is goooogling furiously away. So, what does the google jantari say now, hmm? c’mon, be quick, don’t lose the golden touch baba ji
@mbokhari
Re Organisation:
I was referring to Paksitani professionals and Business people overseas. I realize Students will be not be able to contribute as much.
RE Consensus:
We already have a consensus and it is the constitution of Pakistan. No one on this forum has ever argued in favour of “TTP” or their modus operandi.
You may want to continue to grind your axe and disagree with me but my friend it does not serve any purpose so let us move forward.
All we need to focus on right now is wether the operation will reinforce the state of Pakistan or destabalise it further. I am sure you will agree that our national agenda is not congruent with that of United States. They have the luxary of walking away. we don’t have that luxary. We will have to live or die with the “Taliban” or for that matter the “Baboons”.
Like I have argued elsewhere on this forum that US has implanted extremists in both camps. This is the “West’s” drean scenario. This is what Tony Blair in his yet another unguarded moment expounded upon in Los Angles. http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page9948
They want us to fight among ourselves so that the status quo is not challenged. This is NeoCon Imperialist agenda. Unfortunately some of us are unwitting collaborators.
The State of Pakistan is weaker today then the day this operation started. Yes I admit to have supported the Army action in my infamous admissions elsewhere on this forum. But I never thought we are planning a military operation that will displace 1.5Million of our people and that too conveniently timed to coincide with our Moron-in-Command’s (Zardari the Snake) visit to the Master’s Den (US) in the poodle conference.
http://pkpolitics.com/2009/05/12/iri-survey-results-11-may-2009/
“@ GoTK
so you want to own my theory!!! You can be my guest!
As I have written repeatedly the fighting in Swat is a typical favroite technique of the US. Utilised repeatedly in various “theatres of war”. Al-Salvador, Algeria, Egypt and most recently in Iraq to name a few.
BTW in a war there are no fixed tactics. You fight each battle with it’s own strategy. The west has to be confronted on a field of its vulnerability not of it’s choosing.
Here is another theory!
Swat operation is a diversionary attack. The main attack is going to take place elsewhere. I know these scumbags too well. (Pat my own back!!!) LOL.
I know you and Nota both mean well and want Pakistan to be a Great Nation that we deserve to be so please let us desist from name calling. It does not do our cause any service. They want us to fight this battle along these lines. Remeber Tony Blair’s speech in Los Angles in 2006. He showed his cards. The dumb ass he really was. Makes it easy form me to make my point.
http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page9948
Now that we have agreed on the agenda let us move forward and beware of the enemy’s diversion.”
Ah Miss Shilling to the rescue sick swallow suck swallow….repeat if necessary
tch tch nathoo baba gandi gandi batain nahi kartay
Awwww FUGGIT!
I’m leaving!
@Taukeer Akbar
I support your sentiments entirely. At the end of the day, as you say, we are on the same side: We are for Pakistan. We do need to identify and fight the nefarious designers. Kudos to you brother for organizing fund raising for the IDPs.
During all these war times our defense minister is the most inactive civilian, not that I’m complaining but what is purpose of his office?????????
@Tauqeer Akbar said:
———-
@mbokhari ….
RE Consensus:…
… No one on this forum has ever argued in favour of “TTP” or their modus operandi….
———-
There are some who have not openly opposed/criticized/denounced it either.
@ savage,
It is not just the defence minister who is inactive, it is also the president who is away when the situation is getting grave with each passing day; it is the cunning RM who is in the UK during this time. So, it is the entire inept lot that is inactive and there is a reason for that; a) they are not serious/sincere in resolving any issues b) they have no freaking clue how to approach and resolve it.
@Amir Hameed
I agree, our current lot of elite just want compensation in terms of kickbacks, protocol, prestige, tours; without giving any sort of return to the country, these morons are big liabilities instead of assets.
@Amir Hameed.
From what I have read as a concerned Pakistani who has a minimalist agenda of wanting progress in his country, I can guarantee you that there is no one on this forum who agree’s with TTP agenda.
@Gul
Pls help me move this debate forward by agreeing to a “ceasefire” ! Let us call all our friends and mobilise them instead of arguing with each other.
@Tauqeer Akbar
Believe it or not, through humour and otherwise, I have been trying to move it forward. I hate the idiotic sabotage, and that’s why I lash out. Still, whether people keep on fighting on this forum or not, I continue with my financial support for the IDPs, rest assured.
Pakistan Zindabad.
@Savage
“What media (local and international) is showing is quite opposite to what you just said”
Bro, I will suggest that you should personally visit these camps as they are saituated at less that an hour drive from Islamabad and talk to the people yourself.
My concern was the sense of deprivation of the people in the camps, who blame politicians and generals for their condition, and they will be ordainay people not taliban who will start marching towards Islamabad.
Sooner the operation ends better will it be for the government.
@pak.nukes/”disgruntled.paki” :
Oh you compulsive lying, disgusting, nauseating lout! I can’t believe your NERVE!
Go on! tell us more, you compulsive liar! What was more horrific? The fact that you couldn’t get enough cake and bakery products to stuff your elitist face? or was it that your Rs. 30,000 iphone JUST COULDN”T GET GOOD SIGNAL in those god-foresaken camps!?? or maybe some “ghareeb reff-you-jee” drooled all over your expensive Gucci bag?
How horrific indeed! Oh “The Horrrorrr! The Horrorr!!” …
Ah the horrifics of guilt that the hypocritical pakistani upper class has to assuage by trying to sound like DHA taliban, pseudo-Islamic-Revolutionaries with their 30,000 iphones, 5000/month broad band connections, and all the time in the world to pretend to be what they are not!
Its a good thing too, because your rich, society-housewife persona would be beheaded by your “heroes” the Taliban, because you see, Swat is not “the internet” where no-one knows what posers like you really are!. They would recognize you for who you are, and implement their “sharia” on you with a vengeance!
Alas! we were not that lucky this time (perhaps because none of your lies actually transpire)
I’m sure you’ll find a listening ear in your friend @nota … a brave patriot that he is — on account of having to live in the Hellhole that is the palatial defense housing sector in Lahore … from what I gather. :p
Not to mention he has to “valiantly resist” HORRIFIC OPPRESSION of his own! (see example below!)
Oh the hew-mana-tee!! sniff! sniff! “NEVAR FORGET!” ™
Do Karachi people need Talibans when MQM is already serving very well and takig care of women in decent way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKyKAJxfo2c
I am just watching Salah ud Din Ayubi’s story ”Lionheart” at channel4 in UK. What a great leader we had . We are in the same situation now but don’t have any Salah-ud-Din.
Zardari?
Rehman Malik?
Altaf?
Asfandyar?
@mbemari and @ Yul
They are just waste of time. Don’t bother. They will keep on posting their Home Made movies and Pictures. Both of you keep on exposing your>>>who cares now!!!
Maulvi Taliban in Isloo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8XMHwSf7Ys
*cough*
@nota,
I am still waiting for your reply on my post that I am pasting for you again:
—
@nota
—
…“The deal” hardly lasted two and a half days let alone two and a half months….”
And why do you think that the deal hardly lasted for two and a half days? Who was responsible for sabotaging it? What would have happened if it (deal) was given more time?
—
@ Amir Hameed
May I answer your question:
Ask any army major or other ARMY personal whom you know very well that HOW LONG IT TAKES FOR ARMY TO PREPARE A BIG SCALE OPERATION LIKE SWAT? Once you get that answer then You will know answers to all your questions coz if I tell you might you would not believe me. Also do not forget to share that info with us please.
@BABU FROM USA,
I am not sure why you feel obligated to speak for@nota? He made these comments in response to my posting and I am asking him to elaborate on them.
@Gosh of TK
Man get a life some where in stoogy town.
Food street banner. Have you seen a lot of signs/ might you have not that Dress and Shoes are required to serve in this restaurant. (USA) No NIKKARS and No ordinary sandels.
OOOppps did I say in USA. Your Master US Govt. will be mad. For a punishement you have to say YES MASTER 1000 times a day.
@ Amir hameed
Sorry!!! then wait for nota!!!
I had pointed out many objections. would you like to elaborate on those points.
Anyway, if you get info in the meantime from an army guy it will help you and I bet it wouldn’t be wasted. Your choice if you really wanna know the TRUTH.
An interesting and intriguing interview with Tariq Hayat Khan, the political agent of Khyber Agency (from BBC World Service)
Note the modus operandi of the suicider “cells”. These are the “fidayeen” who run the infrastructure of recruitment, training, logistics and administration of drugs (yes) to these young men to basically destroy their minds as they are sent off their deaths according the wishes of whomever is running the Suicider factory and selling them to the ‘bidders’.
The Audio of Interview with Tariq Hayat Khan. (with Owen Bennet Jones)
Excerpt from the Site:
@BABU FROM USA,
Okay, so based on your arguments above, you seem to be implying that the army had already planned this operation regardless of the outcome of the AWAT deal and even if TTP leadership had stuck to its words, this operation was till inevitable? That is a fair argument but what if this operation was planned as part of plan B, that is, if TTP backs out then go after them? If army had all the intentions to go after TTP at all cost then I would imagine that it (army) would have been on high alert around the time when the SWAT deal was being negotiated because it had to act regarless, right? Then why Buner (and to some extent Shangla) fell to TTP in spite of army being on high alert?
You don’t be so assertive about knowing the truth because none of us really know what truly happened or will happen in the future and all we can do is to analyze based on the information we have.
@TK,
I really fear that if some of these nut-cases infiltrate into the IDPs camps, which they most likely already have, and if they carry out the suicide bombings there, the loss of human life would be disastrous. I really pray that this does not happen.
@ Amir Hameed
We analyse things in the light of history, facts and figures, sceintific analysis, different infos from different sources and then judge those infos with ground realities. Different events happening at the same time or at different times or events have happened in the past. We need to connect dots. We need to see who is the beneficiary? I mean different angles to see a picture.We try to get the Truth no matter if it looks good or bad to our own perceptions.
Sometimes it is hard to find the Truth at a certain stage but with an effort and open mind one can achieve the Truth.
1. Timing of operation. Beggers visit to USA.
2. Increase in aid from 1.5 to 1.9 Billion.
3. karey Lugar bill passed in congress and senate.
4. FM Qureshi statement,”US GOVT. IS SATISFIED WITH SWAT OPERATION”.
5. Sufi Mohammad was in jail, released, peace Deal and NAR, then Sufi Mohammad’s Crazy statements, Flogging video, Talibans are few km from Islamabad to create fear in public. etc.
A change of topic. But then maybe not!
RE: Torture
From: Informationclearinghouse.info
To: All Americans, Brits et Al,
Why do they hate you?!!!
They hate you [and rightfully so] because you have been for decades:
- killing their kids, their parents, theirs relatives, their tribes, their neighbors and their people,
- stealing in broad daylight their God given natural riches,
- intervening -unscrupulously- in their affairs over and over again,
- invading illegally- their countries, their waters and their skies
- raping their women & children & parents,
- destroying -time and again- their livelihood,
- mass-murdering them & their families by the hundreds of thousands over and over again
- enslaving them at home and abroad,
- lying to them a million times
- tarnishing their image in all four corners of Earth,
- Etc. Etc. Etc.
And you never ceased to so doing to this very day May 15th 2009…
And you will shamelessly continue…!!!
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/tf2777/article22624_htm/
@ Amir Hameed
Read about US History from 1856 till recent past. Check out about US Govt. activities in the past. Better if you use academic book/ books.
Listen to official statements and then analyse them with independent info or media. Open your mind and then see what others have to say. Then judge the things from different angles. One thing keep in mind.
” IT IS THE PEOPLE OR GOVTS. WHO CAN LIE BUT NOT THE SCIENTIFIC FACTS/ HISTORY”.
babu’s verdict.
@Tauqeer Akbar
We should not blame American or Brit Public. They are also victims of propaganda and lies from their own Govts.
Most of the Americans are good people but most of the US Govt. foreign policies are very bad to very criminals.
@BABU FROM USA,
At a high level, I don’t disagree with you on what you have stated above, but I was answering to your very specific question, that is, “Ask any army major or other ARMY personal whom you know very well that HOW LONG IT TAKES FOR ARMY TO PREPARE A BIG SCALE OPERATION LIKE SWAT?”. So, you have to read my comment keeping in view of your question.
O the Valiant Taliboos! See how they run. See how quickly they shave their beards. This certainly breaks down the myth of ‘pukhtoon valiant warriors’. Taliboos, be they punjabi, pukhtoon, check, chechen, tajic, are plain criminal cowards, nothing else:
http://epaper.dawn.com/ArticleText.aspx?article=16_05_2009_001_006
And we all need to be cognizant of how wrong all those are who highlight the misery of the IDP’s to try and gain sympathy for the Taliban, and blame the suffering on the military operations. Nothing is further from the truth: please read the testimony of an IDP as to who has been destroying their houses, and who is responsible for forcing them out of their homes. The displaced and affected people want the militants CRUSHED:
http://epaper.dawn.com/ArticleText.aspx?article=16_05_2009_001_008
An excerpt from the same article:
@Gul:
Very interesting! So the TNSM “peaceful” guys were playing on both sides? making deals with the govt as “The peaceful ones” and trumpeted all over the media as such by the elitist and corrupt rightwing media machine (Thank You Ansar Abbasi!)
Did this guy NOT know that Sufi Muhammad had made a “peace accord” and that it stipulated NO NEW TERRIROTRY to be invaded? (or challenging the writ of the state let alone taking over another district? )
And what do they do? the Shura member of TNSM leads the way into Buner?
Buner! Buner! Buner! It was just too juicy for these thugs to pass up on! And now they’re shouting “We was set up! we was set up!!!”
@Amir Hameed: I wouldn’t be surprised if they try something desperate like that.
The QATILBAN bear FULL responsibility for the current misery and hardships of the people of Swat and the related IDP’s.
@BABU FROM USA
The quote you refer to is that of an American, hence the reference and the link.
I agree there are many fine human beings in the West who feel the pain of other human beings but by and large they are a very simple people and unfortunately mostly ignorant and oblivious to reality arround them.
There are such major weakness in the democratic process that no matter who they chose they always choose the wrong guy. I know that may be heartening to the Pakistanis given our experience of democracy but before anyone starts to plan a coup this is the best we have been able to manage so far.
If we can’t have change at least in Democracy we can hope for one!
Look at the beauty of Democracy! There is such an equality of opportunity. Just look at our Moron-in-Chief a one Asif Zardar the snake. If he can become president then anyone could become a president in Pakistan!
Like many other people all over Pakistan, the women of Swat were initially fooled by Taliboo’s Islamic garb. It is such a pity that what ever is presented in religious wraps, is swallowed hook line and sinker by the all too trusting public.
Only later their eyes open to reality, when the water is over the bridge. And those of us (including myself) who identified these so called Mujahideens against Amreeka as Public Enemy Number One from day one, were being called liberal fascists.
Here’s an article on Swat’s women, with quotations from the women themselves.
http://epaper.dawn.com/ArticleText.aspx?article=16_05_2009_007_007
But just an excerpt here:
@GTK
Oh absolutely well highlighted.
Not only do these so called Jeeehadi’s against Amreeka aka Qatilban bear full responsibility for the utter misery of 2 million IDP’s, let’s also be very clear about their so called ‘local support’ that many have harped on ad nauseum:
So forcible recruitment is local support, hmm?
@Amir Hameed
Nice job trying to deflect focus from the STUP!D trash you posted.
Let me try spell it out for you a bit. The article you posted (you must have really liked it as you copy-pasted the whole ‘shabang’, something you harly ever do) claimed:
What I WAS questioning was the ridiculous claim that all this happened IN TWO AND A HALF MONTHS AFTER THE PEACE DEAL.
Now your question (“why do you think that the deal hardly lasted for two and a half days?”) is itself is an admission the deal DID NOT last “two and a half months”. So how can the article claim:
1: The ‘Bat Cave’ was built in “two and a half months”
2. The “two and a half months” were the months AFTER “the deal”
Keep in mind YOU and I both agree:
If we agree on that, then how can you still pander the deal lasting “two and a half months” or more??
This brings up another thing: If the Taliban are really so bloody efficient to achieve all of :“cleansed a huge portion of the forest on the mountain to make free space for the building. They recruited the youth on a large scale, strengthened their command and control structure, established their hierarchical structure, planted mines on the main roads, dug bunkers and occupied the strategic passes” in only two and a half months, you have to hand it to them for efficiency
Your problem is your mind is taken over by fear and you see goblins everywhere.
(And no, we were NOT discussing “why do you think that the deal hardly lasted for two and a half days? Who was responsible for sabotaging it? What would have happened if it (deal) was given more time?” That is just a ruse by you to weasel out of having posted major BS. Or are you saying you buy what the article is selling? OH, you really DO! What a pity!! )
@Tauqeer Akbar said:
“Look at the beauty of Democracy! There is such an equality of opportunity. Just look at our Moron-in-Chief a one Asif Zardar the snake. If he can become president then anyone could become a president in Pakistan”
Beauty indeed!….
@nota,
As expected, you deflected my questions with all your mumbo-jumbo. I was not even discussing the article when I asked you those questions. All I wanted to see was your stand but then you have never had one so why would you have one now.
another 1971 in happening.
Murderers have again taken the castle. They are once again ruling this nation and they will once again through us in the chaos fo saparation and partition.
they will go and prostrate in front of their lords sitting on our sides laughing at us and saying to every one that “look at this nation called Islam” what a bunch of Jokers.
Our nation as a great ability to adapt, even to the condition that it should not adapt to at all but it does that, we dont cry when our body gets amputated we adapt. we say this is how it was suppose to happen and we could not have done any thing.
“Chalo miti pao”
An excellent expose by A Cowasjee in today’s dawn on the land grabbing scam in Karachi. It is balanced in that it highlights the various vested parties involved, but in the end it is a damning verdict on MQM’s attempts at ethnic cleansing in the garb of anti-Talibanization:
http://epaper.dawn.com/ArticleText.aspx?article=17_05_2009_007_005
The last couple of lines from the article only:
@TK
“The QATILBAN bear FULL responsibility for the current misery and hardships of the people of Swat and the related IDP’s.”
At best the above statement is CHILDISH and utmost ridicolous.
How can it be true that they bear the “FULL RESPONSIBILITY” while fighting the very same mercenary institution that fostered and nurtured them? Have they not been hand in glove in spite of representing two different worlds? On the one hand it was mullah-ism and on the other hand it was baboo-ism. The “strange” thing is that when the goal is the same they work together perfectly.
It’s not that easy being @nota
Having to spend each day like a truck driver’s chHota
When it could be nicer being educated and polite
or something like that but not so mota
It’s not easy being @nota
It seems he quickly runs out of his Majoon Jalinoos quota
And people tend to pass over his comments ’cause he is
boring, repetitive and a complete aqal ka khoTa
Its not easy at all being @nota
katchi jamat me sar me laga tha sota
not his fault when he says ‘duh’, ‘funny you mentioned…’
like a slippery machli swimming in a big lotaAAAaaaa
Its not…………….
easy AT ALL…………………
being @notaaAAAaaaa.
….
[standing ovation, clapping, nota bows]
Pakistan has been a long time ally of Sri Lanka. Vital help has been provided to counter LTTE and now it seems like the end of LTTE is very near. They have almost been crushed totally. Only a tiny fraction has been left to the ultimate defeat of the terrorists sponsored by India. Has Sri Lanka done it their own way? I think, yes! Congratulations to Sri Lanka for getting rid of the LTTE menace. I see a prosperous future for Sri Lanka, if they have complete success, then they will develop rapidly, but that requires integration of the Tamil population. An alienation will only ensure another uprising. It is yet to be seen whether Sri Lanka acts wisely or the victory cuts the connection to their brains.
On the other hand we are fighting our extremist movement. Contrary to LTTE our movement is a self creation as many other blunders like MQM. Unfortunately we are not acting wisely by using OUR solutions to OUR problems/issues and hence there is very little chance of success. There is no doubt that we will hear many “success stories” like the stories posted by @Amir hameed and @Gul, but what about when the dust settles. Then we will see the reality and that is going to be very ugly. That what I fear. As long as we follow “solutions” made in USA we can CANNOT have success. It has to be made in Pakistan for Pakistanis!
It might be all over for LTTE.
“The Tamil Tigers (LTTE) had given up their fight against a major government offensive and “decided to silence our guns”, he said on a pro-Tamil website.
“This battle has reached its bitter end,” said Selvarasa Pathmanathan, the Tigers’ chief of international relations, in a statement on Tamilnet.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8054169.stm
PPP Civil War in NYC – Mayhem and Bloodshed
According to the latest reports coming out of war-torn Roosevelt Hotel in New York, casualties continue to climb. PPP factions armed with chairs and cutlery ravaged each other while the visiting Prezodent of Pakistan, Asif Ali Zardari, had to take refuge under a table from flying pieces of dinnerware.
He is listed in stable condition despite a silver salad fork being stuck in his esophagus which has resulted in a permanent painful grin, resembling a toothy bugs bunny smile.
April 22, 2008
Peace deal between TNSM and NWFP govt: Sufi Muhammad released.
April 24, 2008
Agreement between Baitullah Mehsood and Govt. US shows concern over agreement
and then on April 29, 2008
Dialogue between Baitullah Mehsood and Govt freezed:
and NOW on April 14, 2009
President signed on “Nizam e Adal”
and NOW on April 20, 2008
US concerned over Swat deal: Holbrooke
April 22, 2009
Nawaz voices over Swat deal …
Malik Dacoit version on Swat deal. Strict action against taliban.
April 28, 2009
World community increase “AID” to Pakistan: Brown
and FINALLY the “DAY OF JUDGEMENT” came on May 08, 2009
PM declares all-out war against militants
Why do all this BS happen between April to June 12 or BEFORE Budget? Just for getting “AID” on the blood of people of Pakistan.
@Shirkuh
Regarding similarities between Pakistan and Sri Lanka, SL negotiated with LTTE for 30 years. Finally they decided to split the movement (Col. Karuna faction) and this led to a weakening of the Prabhakaran faction. So, the government first divided the militants, provided home rule to the ones willing to lay down arms and then isolated the rest.
This is kind of what the government did in Swat. Except, Mulla Sufi held no power and his own grandson was held hostage by the throat-slitters (Sohail Qalandar). If Mulla Sufi had stuck to his end of the bargain, forced the Taliban to disarm and made peace permanent, there wouldn’t have been any war. The Taliban are solely responsible for this war by initiating hostilities in Buner, not Pakistan.
So, your argument that this war is a solution MADE IN THE USA, does not hold water.
This is “Urban battle fields of South Asia: lessons learned from Sri Lanka, …” by Christine Fair – 2004
http://ifile.it/2x1jh54/0833036823.zip
Its not very long but has some interesting comparison with SL’s battle against LTTE and Pakistan’s battle against MQM.
Perhaps some lessons could be learned from the counter-MQM battle strategy, the mistakes avoided and the solution implemented in Swat. I highly recommend that you at least browse this book
@Nota
I am sure you know my comment was tounge in cheek!
Mian Nawaz sharif has donted Rs 50 lac for Swat IDPs from his pocket (as a duty, not a favour though)
Do we know the personal contributions of other political leaders for IDP funds??
@Jamhooriat
It’s not fair to speak of amounts only. It would be fair to speak of relative amounts i.e. how wealthy are you are and how much of your personal wealth do you give and which effort do you put in the casue. Provided IF we HAVE to compare contributions.
Army mobilization. Taliban shaving and running. Shaving while running. No time for After Shave.
@mbokhari
khocha tum kiya baat karti ay
ٰ@Gulbo
Why you little ^$$*^&@#@!!!!…are you done &@#&*^*&?
Now, go and %#&$&#^@#
Sincerely,
-nathoo bawarchi
@mbokhari @Gul @ TK
It appears Ad-min has granted you guys special impunity from using obscene language, personal attacks, lame humor, and derogatory remarks.
Why don’t you all create threads in ‘discussion’ forum to “share” you creative arts and have a little fun time ?
Day in, day out you are busy in bogus conversations instead of constructive discussions/arguments.
Or have Ad-min start a new section for you guys to kill time?
Thanks
@msohail83,
I wonder why you have never spoken out when @nota has used extremely vulgar language?
@msohail
Please point out where I have used any bad language. Other people, however, use bad language. As an example:
http://pkpolitics.com/2009/05/16/visitors-views-news-week-3-may-2009/#comment-210311
@msohail,
A few more examples of @nota’s rosy language:
http://pkpolitics.com/2009/05/05/language-of-cowardice/#comment-206311
http://pkpolitics.com/2009/05/05/language-of-cowardice/#comment-206336
Amir n bokhari – I dont have a perosonal relationship with anyone on this forum, so I could just add his name to the list too.
There’s so much going on in the country that can be discussed but some ppl have to excercise their fingures by typing worthless stuff to gain attention.
Bokhari using symbols as a substitute for curse words still conveys the message to people with common sense, does it not?
I visit this page to look for article links shared by users and often find them buried under a pile of garbage spewed by some frustrated folks around here.
@msohail
So, darty darty language used by @nota is OK but symbols are bad?
What a logic
RUMSFELD’S CRUSADE MEMOS
GQ running an article chronicling the Iraq war ran on religious grounds by then sec. defence Donald Rumsfeld, Its interesting to note the religious quotes and to compare them what Al-Qaeda use, interesting article u can read it here:
http://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_9217
A very interesting Slideshow comprising of High level secret memos that GQ is running Links is below.
http://men.style.com/gq/features/topsecret
@mbokhari
I will do that when I get time. I have still not read the first book
What is your take on this article? Personally, I find it quite insightful!
http://pkpolitics.com/2009/05/17/time-is-running-out/
No bokhari. Both of them are SAME!
You guys are always at each other’s throat and get so personal for reasons known to you.
I’m mostly a silent observer and rarely comment on things. Most people here are very knowledgeable and I can certainly learn from them.
I’m just requresting you all to shun this practice of personal attacks & namecalling and show respect to each other.
@mbokhari
“I’m just requresting you all to shun this practice of personal attacks & namecalling and show respect to each other.”
Sorry for my intervention, but isn’t @msohail83′s request very fair?
@msohail
As a reciprocal gesture to your polite response, let me renew my undeclared unilateral ceasefire
Normally, I never intervene unless the darty darty language speaking darty darty person starts taking ‘panga’ and uses darty darty language.
The said darty person does it in order to derail the debate and we must all fight it. And I promise that even when responding, I will not stoop to its level.
Coming back to the overrated exchange of knowledge, I really recommend you read this book:
http://ifile.it/2x1jh54/0833036823.zip
When you have read it, you, me and Shirkuh can discuss it
@msohail
When @mbokhari used symbols above, he was addressing me. And believe me, he was not substituting these for bad language. You’re obviously not too dense to see the satire. So why pretend?
@Shirkuh
I agree completely with the article. A prolonged military campaign will only harm Pakistan. Was just talking to a friend who knows about it and he said the army’s strategy is to surround them and then take Mingora. Personally I don’t know the area well and can’t claim any understanding of military logic. Perhaps Sohail Qalandar’s analysis should be referred to.
I found one problem with Masood’s article. He has not referred to the really abysmal leadership shown by the federal government. He has not talked about how the PPP is behaving right now when 12 million Pakistanis are homeless.
I know its not kosher to say it, but given NS’ popularity ratings of 75% and that of Zardari under 20%, wouldn’t a change in leadership be necessary at this juncture? Or at least a national unity government where PMLN is given the driving seat. PPP’s had its chance and should step aside before extraneous forces move their silent horses against it.
@Gul,
The problem is that all those who are so quick to point out to @mbokhari, @TK, you and the others to behave have never directly addressed to @nota and asked him to do the same. I wonder why is this dual standard?
Bokhari- I will read it.
Gul- Admitted, I’m not an erudite commentator like yourself and by no means am I a deep thinker, but u simply missed my point.
@mbokhari,
Even though PML-N has a higher popularity graph than PPP but you have to admit that no one knows where it (PML-N) stands on the SWAT issue and the current operation. They have also not proposed any viable solution to this situation. So, even though I agree with you that a change of leadership is the need of the hour, I am not sure if PML-N has a clear strategy to cope with it either.
Just heard that NWFP schools are closed and would be used as IDP shelters.
@Shirkuh
Of course, @msohail’s request would be fair if he were to appeal to the actual users of dirty language, personal attacks, and derailers of serious discussion. A one sided appeal to those who are only responding within the parameters of decency, is one sided at best.
Do please go back to comments at large and judge for yourself who tries to butt in and abuse and derail discourse with ad hominem attacks.
@msohail
On the off chance that you are not in on the joke, here’s what just happened.
There’s a darty darty individual who hangs out here and tries to take ‘panga’ with me and TK and gul in order to stifle any conversation. He himself is unable to put two sentences together and cannot give any new insight. He however has this compulsive need to insert himself impolitely in civilized debate and does so in a vulgar manner.
And when told not to use darty darty words, The Darty One responds the way I responded to Gul. But I did it as a Satire.
Definition of Satire: Irony, sarcasm, or caustic wit used to attack or expose folly, vice, or stupidity
@msohail
You put me to the blush with praise and insult me in the same breath – I think you are a cut above me.
Still, what point have I missed?
When answering, please bear in mind that my sole point is that we use humour and satire to rebut abuse, nonsense and spread of confusion by professional trolls. You on the other hand have yet to address a word of remonstrance to the perpetrators of the same, as pointed by @Amir Hameed above.
@Amir Hameed
PMLN has supported the military operation completely. Previously, they were in favor of NAR. Now, the PMLN government in Punjab is more active in the IDP issue than Sindh government, for example. They have also expressed their reservations about the roadmap: they don’t want it to go on indefinitely.
I don’t see a lot of ambiguity. But then again, sometimes in large public political organizations, you will see a diversity of opinion. Perhaps that’s what’ been happening with the rank and file Leaguee.
na-muslim khan’s son has been captured by security forces, he was attending entery exam for airport security force at the time of arrest.
http://jang.com.pk/jang/may2009-daily/17-05-2009/up59.gif
@mbokhari
“I found one problem with Masood’s article. He has not referred to the really abysmal leadership shown by the federal government. He has not talked about how the PPP is behaving right now when 12 million Pakistanis are homeless.”
I don’t know, but think it is deliberate act. Do they (PPP) have any say? No, I don’t think so. They are just a new face transplant on GHQ. I think the bunch PPP opportunists are satisfied by getting a piece of the flesh….The flesh of Pakistan
“I know its not kosher to say it, but given NS’ popularity ratings of 75% and that of Zardari under 20%, wouldn’t a change in leadership be necessary at this juncture? Or at least a national unity government where PMLN is given the driving seat. PPP’s had its chance and should step aside before extraneous forces move their silent horses against it.”
NS is popular- at least according to the latest IRI survey and the presiDENT has almost NO popularity outside Sindh. I think you are hoping too much from NS. I do not doubt that PML-N is a better option than PPP, but to hope for a significant change is to demand too much from the very same people who already have ruled Pakistan a couple of times. One can hope that they have learned from past mistakes and the quick “justice” by the electronic media. As @Amir Hameed said their silence on the Swat issue is not a good sign. They need to take the bull by the horns and give a clear message about their stance. Do they have a leniency towards Yankee policies or not? I hope they have not, but the signs show otherwise! Maybe someone with a better knowledge on this issue can clarify the PML-N position.
@Bokhari@Gul@Amir
I know a little bit about ‘satire’. You valediction remark towards the end “Nathoo Bawarchi” clearly signified your message. Above comments were not the reason I brought this up. I have just been observing excessive abuse around here lately.
My apologies for missing @nota’s name and thanks for pointing it out. As I said before I’m requesting everyone, not a particular group.
Thanks
@mbokhari
I know its not kosher to say it, but given NS’ popularity ratings of 75% and that of Zardari under 20%, wouldn’t a change in leadership be necessary at this juncture?
public opinion is fickle to the situation. zardari (ppp) is now on the loswest level of his (un)popularity. but dont you think change in leadership at this time will be precedent for future. we know NS is flying on his popularity but what he would have done if he was in the office of zardari in this situation. we never took a clear stance what he is upto. he is saying something and his senior party member are saying other things. he is playing on the both side and in the current scenario if he be given the mastery he would have put pakistan in more excerable position than the zardari atleat zaradari(ppp) has taken a clear stand.
@msohail
Thanks for being so accommodating. But I thought you mentioned “symbols” and calling The Darty One “nathoo bawarchi” is not very offensive is it? Unless you have something against unhygienic catering staff?….Anyway, let’s drop the whole thing.
What do you think about Masood sharif Khattak’s article. Any thoughts?
I don’t think PMLN suits GHQ or US in the driving seat.
1. They will come with their own agenda.
2. Their public support will give them too much of political capital.
3. They will be able to say NO to both power houses.
Finally
4. I don’t think PMLN wants to take over because they don’t want to blamed for departure of another PPP (Sindhi) government. (“Inside Info!!!”)
But at the same time the incompetence of the present regime can make the unexpected happen by accident.
I see Musharaf is hoping to jump into the fray after six months. We should really be scared. The Extended lecture tour must be running out soon!!!
@Tauqeer Akbar
“I don’t think PMLN suits GHQ or US in the driving seat.
1. They will come with their own agenda.
2. Their public support will give them too much of political capital.
3. They will be able to say NO to both power houses.”
If the aim is top be smart, then I have no problems, but if the aim is to fool the people for votes, then they will run into exactly the same problems as PPP i.e. NO credibility.
Btw: PPP will say all the right stuff while in opposition and will be eager to have their turn, when/if PML-N fails. Isn’t that our history?
“4. I don’t think PMLN wants to take over because they don’t want to blamed for departure of another PPP (Sindhi) government. (”Inside Info!!!”)”
Sounds quite plausible and is according to their statements since the last elections.
“But at the same time the incompetence of the present regime can make the unexpected happen by accident.”
Incompetence is a very decent word for these PPP opportunists.
@Tauqeer Akbar
“Tauqeer Akbar said:
I see Musharaf is hoping to jump into the fray after six months. We should really be scared. The Extended lecture tour must be running out soon!!!”
Did you see Busharraf on CNN with Fareed Z.? He was mostly saying the right stuff, but since we have seen him in action we know better. First he starts the downfall and then he wants to be believed for another “top post” for PML-Q.
@bokhari
You guys have rightly pointed out that he fails to address the incompetency of incumbent civil administration which is more or less fueling the fire. Not that our Army seeks advice from political leadership but they definitely would like to have a confident and stable govt.
Military will have to revisit its strategy to confront this insurgency. You cannot fight guerilla warfare with heavy artilarry, gunship helicopters and tanks. All those people will go on vacation and reunite after ARMY declares area is cleaned up! There seems to be dearth of human intelligence which is quite mindboggling. It also shows that this operation was launched in haste w/o any proper prepartion and at the behest of Americans. Army will have to remain in the area to strengthen the civil admisistration and try to cut the source of funding for these warlords.
He is a bl**dy looser.
I am sure “Top post” of PML-Q is quite suitable for him or may be MQM!! But then what will happen to Kaliya.
Maybe he fill form MQM-Busharaf!!!
@Tauqeer Akbar
I think Kalia is like a head lice between two nails. Have mercy on this lice. He is wanted in Pakistan (though almost each leader is eager to meet him in London) and he is tolerated by the British Bulldogs as long as he does what he is told to i.e. acts like a head lice on Pakistans head. Unforunately Pakistan has such head lices in abundance
Regarding Busharraf. I think he is waiting for a chance to enter as a politician, but is still suffering from the blows he got during the collision with the judiciary train. Once the Pakistani awaam has forgot that debacle he will be in politics again. Who knows which tricks he can pull out of the hat=ISI (and other agencies) i.e manipulation of election results.
Pakistan – wrong tactic, wrong battle
http://tinyurl.com/wrong-tactic-wrong-battle
@msohail83
There are some points in the article, but you also find the usual mantra:
“Those generals ought to think this through. If substantial portions of Pakistan fall to the Taliban, placing the nation’s nuclear weapons arsenal at risk, what do you think India might do then?”
For one to qualify as an American you have to prove to have a sub 70IQ. So I don’t even bother reading “Professors of Journalism” except the usual suspects eg. Finkelstien etc.
My proof of the IQ theory? How could you manage an accent like their’s with a normal IQ!!!
I don’t hate American! I just don’t take them seriously!!!!
’پاکستان آتا جاتا رہوں گا‘
پاکستان کے سابق فوجی حکمران جنرل پرویز مشرف نے کہا ہے ’میں پاکستان آتا جاتا رہوں گا‘۔ یہ بات جمعہ کی سہ پہر نیویارک میں صحافیوں کے ساتھ گفتگو میں اس سوال کے جواب میں کہی کہ کیا وہ امریکہ میں سیاسی پناہ لے رہے ہیں۔
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2009/05/090517_musharraf_ny.shtml
کسی نامعلوم مقام سے بی بی سی کو ٹیلی فون پر ملا فضل اللہ کا کہنا تھا کہ حکومت کی جانب سے مالاکنڈ ڈویژن میں شریعت کا نفاذ صرف کاغذوں تک محدود رہا اور اسے عملی طور پر نافذ نہیں کیا گیا۔ انہوں نے دعوٰی کیا کہ حکومت کا یہ کہنا محض ایک پروپیگنڈہ ہے کہ طالبان کا مقصد شریعت کا نفاذ نہیں بلکہ کچھ اور ہے۔
Can someone tell me how our intelligence agencies miss these guys when they are in touch with mediapersons?
after a long time, I feel proud of our Pak army. the incredible sacrifices given by Captain Najam Riaz Shaheed and his valiant colleagues will not be forgotten taaqiyamat. brings one to tears to read how they were betrayed and left to suffer at the hands of these jaahil, bearded barbarians…
at the same time, that rat who betrayed our commandos needs to be tried for treason. and as far as that kuttey da puttar Sufi is concerned, I hope one day we get to see him beheaded ever so slowly for his crimes against the people of Swat and Pakistan. these Taliban barbarians need to be caught and tried publicly for murdering our brave soldiers.
Pakistan and Pakistanis owe a debt to Captain Najam Shaheed and his family. as someone who attended a cadet college, I truly hope that Cadet College Kahuta comes into being as per the wishes of Captain Najam Shaheed’s family. in the end, my Salam and deepest respect to the brave mother of a brave son for the following part:
The mother of Shaheed Captain Najam told The News while sitting in her village house, amid tears in her eyes, that she would have even sacrificed ten sons for the sake of Pakistan and she was proud of her 24-year old son, who before going to Swat had told her not to weep over her body as he knew he was going on a journey of martyrdom.
========================
========================
SSG heroes killed eight Taliban before they were shot
Monday, May 18, 2009
By Rauf Klasra
KAHUTA: Family members of martyred Captain Najam Riaz have made a shocking disclosure about the alleged involvement of an important administrative official of Malakand in the killing of four SSG commandos at the hands of Taliban last week.
The heroic tale of brave commandos reveals how the valiant soldiers had broken the necks of eight Taliban, once they realised that they were about to be beheaded. The mother of Shaheed Captain Najam told The News while sitting in her village house, amid tears in her eyes, that she would have even sacrificed ten sons for the sake of Pakistan and she was proud of her 24-year old son, who before going to Swat had told her not to weep over her body as he knew he was going on a journey of martyrdom.
“Our Shaheed captain told that the important official of Malakand had come to meet the Taliban when they were in their possession. The official considered to be darling of the Taliban had told his friends to keep the four SSG commandos with them but return their weapons”, one of the family members of the martyred Captain told The News.
The father of Captain who retired from army as a Hawaldar demanded of the government to take action against the former official of Malakand whose collaboration with the Taliban resulted in beheading of his son along with three companions.
The family members of the martyred captain also claimed that they had come to know that actually Sufi Mohammad had directed the militants to kill the SSG commandos after his own son Kifiyatullah was killed during the operation.
Earlier, Parliamentary Affairs Minister Dr Babar Awan visited the village of Captain Najam. He went there on the direction of Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani to lay flowers on his grave and offer condolences to his family.
Dr Awan himself belongs to Kahuta. The family of the martyred captain made some unusual demands to compensate the loss of their son. “Please ask your PM to set up a cadet college in Kahuta in the name of martyred Najam, set up a hospital and construct the road,” demanded his father, sisters and mother.
When Dr Awan asked whether they needed something for themselves, they all said, they did not need anything rather they had given their son for the sake of Pakistan.
A large crowd of people gathered when Dr Awan reached there in the remote village Kalhut-located at one and a half hours drive from Islamabad. Over 100 people of this small town demanded of the minister not to halt the operation against the militants and eliminate them.
Even the parents and sisters of the martyred captain gave their voice to this demand that operation should be continued and the sacrifice of their son should not be wasted. When Dr Awan returned to Islamabad late night, he immediately talked to the PM Gilani about the demand of the parents of the martyred captain and Gilani announced to approve the college in Kahuta, which might greatly make the whole family happy.
The family told the heroic tale of these four detained SSG commandos who had refused to die without putting any resistance, once they came to know that the NWFP government would not take any interest in their release.
The visit of the former official of Malakand to Taliban asking them just to return the weapons and keep the captives had made them understand what was in store. The only way left with these brave soldiers was to fight back and should not give up. As their captors got the message from their top leadership to eliminate the SSG commandos, the preparation started to tighten them with rope so they could be beheaded.
But as the captors came close to them in the room where they were detained, these commandos suddenly jumped at the eight Taliban. Within seconds, the commandos broke their necks. But two Taliban guards standing outside rushed inside and sprayed them with Kalashnikov bullets, which led to their instant martyrdom.
“We are proud of our commandos that they did not die like cowards. They fought back and killed 8 Taliban as they went down fighting like real heroes, one of the family members of the captain Najam said.
I urge uncle @Admin to make the above article by Rauf Klasra a featured article on the front page…
Pakistanis need to know of the incredible sacrifices being made by the brave sons of the nation and its soldiers.
Politicians can make history today
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=22193
This will be an interesting get togather. I wonder why Zardari, being the head of PPP, is not attending this conference as I believe that he is out until the 21st of May? It will be interesting to see that besides the obvious “stop the drone attacks” slogan, what other indigenous ideas these patries have to get the country out of this precarous state.
@Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar
Indeed that was some touching story and should make most of us proud (for talibans supporters that’s might be different story). I’m still wondering how could they gather that much detail of their lives last moments, if they were killed who revealed all those details???
@msohail83 said:
’پاکستان آتا جاتا رہوں گا‘
پاکستان کے سابق فوجی حکمران جنرل پرویز مشرف نے کہا ہے ’میں پاکستان آتا جاتا رہوں گا‘۔ یہ بات جمعہ کی سہ پہر نیویارک میں صحافیوں کے ساتھ گفتگو میں اس سوال کے جواب میں کہی کہ کیا وہ امریکہ میں سیاسی پناہ لے رہے ہیں۔
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2009/05/090517_musharraf_ny.shtml
That is the nuclease of our problem, unless our leaders and their kids future doesn’t not belong to this land and we don’t stop these such briefcase rulers, our issues would not be solved.
IK and JI should be dropped by air in the mingora for MUZAKARAT, may be KHWAJA SAAD can accompany them. Drop them in the den of taliban.
Leave them until they come out live or dead.
Muzakarat with whom, A ssss HOOOOOOOOOOOLES.
wtf these peole are talking about
You cant leave your army in the middle.
“IK and JI should be dropped by air in the mingora for MUZAKARAT, may be KHWAJA SAAD can accompany them. Drop them in the den of taliban.”
excellent suggestion.
Imran, Qazi and Khawaja Saad Rafiq should negotiate with the Taliban face to face… while they’re at it, Qazi should ask Fazlullah if he considers Qazi a Muslim or not… Saad Rafiq can then repeat his tearful performance in front of an appreciative audience…
we have criticized our army for politicla maneovring.
but who is giving life for country . Our jawans or officers.
Mo fk Talibs should be burnt infront of swatis .
I think most sensible comments in recent program were from dr mehdi hassan.
Media is immature. Saying no journalist is allowed. These stupid immature journalist gloify dehshat gards and millitants. They cant see security forces people die.
They are using IDP for viewrship. They ask a person in the camp, what is not done. Why cant they ask what is done. Atleast a tent and food is the minimum beggining which was provided. Cnat they appreciate this.
Stupid anchor persons should behave and stop competition of displaying misries and degrading self respect of people.
Muhammad Usman@
“we have criticized our army for politicla maneovring.
but who is giving life for country . Our jawans or officers.
Mo fk Talibs should be burnt infront of swatis “.
—————————————————————
For decades, our GHQ and ISI get involved in a love affair with pentagone/CIA that turned into an illegal sexual relationship.
Paradox of this relationship was that all enjoyment was for participants of sexual activities and all pain was for poor nation.
Later on our GHQ became pregnant with an illegal child. Paradox was all weight bearing suffered by poor nation.
Later on an ugly infant borned and whole nation suffered from massive labor pain.
This infant was nurtured by breast feeding from illegal mom and whole nation suffered from hunger and starvation.
Now this ugly infant has grown up into a most disgusting and horrible creature ever produced on the face of earth, that is Taliban and it is ready to engulf whatever comes in to their jaws. It is ready to engulf its own mom(GHQ).
Mom has to kill this ugly creature.
This your last chance mom.
——————————————————————-
(For those who are trying to hide sins of GHQ under the cloud of dirt produced by Taliban. They happened to be mom and son.)
@ Muhammad Usman
“IK and JI should be dropped by air in the mingora for MUZAKARAT, may be KHWAJA SAAD can accompany them. Drop them in the den of taliban.” >>>> LOLzzzz
What about Maaaa-damn Shireen Mazari, i’ve heard she’s excellent at negotianting tables, She should also be droped with IK
Pakistan – wrong tactic, wrong battle
http://tinyurl.com/wrong-tactic-wrong-battle‘
===
This above has to be the most stupid article I have read. With $188 billion spent in Afghanistan by mighty US forces, Taliban still control much of the country, not too mention how they allowed all the Taliban and Al Qaeda to run away over the border (Tora Bora anyone?). So. what is $10 billion, half of which were used for services provided to the US like the bases, supplies?
@Savage
“I’m still wondering how could they gather that much detail of their lives last moments, if they were killed who revealed all those details???”
I am glad you raised the issue yourself. At least you didn’t get carried away by this “afsana” as easily as your friend MT.
@Muhammad Usman
“IK and JI should be dropped by air in the mingora for MUZAKARAT, may be KHWAJA SAAD can accompany them. Drop them in the den of taliban.”
I suppose you and your INCOMPETENT leadership will obey a possible truce negotiated by the above mentioned people?
Suicide attacks are un-Islamic: Ulema
ISLAMABAD: Leading Ulema of the country declared on Sunday that suicide attacks and beheading of people were ‘un-Islamic’ acts and said that militants in Swat and Fata were pursuing the agenda of Pakistan’s enemies.
The edict was issued at a convention of Ulema and Mashaikh from different parts of the country. This is the first time that prominent Ulema and religious scholars, mostly belonging to the Sunni school of thought, have denounced the Taliban and their inhuman acts in such a categorical manner.
A unanimous resolution adopted at the convention said: ‘The assassination of Ulema should be stopped and sacred places, including shrines, should be cleared of extremists. Suicide attacks and beheading is Haram’.
The convention also condemned the killing of innocent people in the US drone attacks and urged the government to raise the issue at the United Nations. (Only condemn
)
The Ulema said the US drone strikes were challenging the country’s sovereignty. ‘The government must take effective measures to force the US to halt these strikes.’ (What you mean “ULAMA E HAQ” about effective measures: raise issue in UN ? Why not target to DRONE as operation against TALIBAN )
They supported the military operation in Swat and other parts of Malakand and declared it a ‘war for Pakistan’s integrity and sovereignty’. The elements engaged in creating a state within the state must be crushed, they added. (Why not military operation against DRONE attack, “Ulama e Haq”
)
………………………….
@MZT
This report by Rauf Klasra made me so angry, and so upset. He’s obviously hinting at the former commissioner of malakand who has been known to be a barely masked Taliban himself for some time. Do you remember, the Taliban entered Buner under his benevolent eye and upon his advice and negotiation with local Buneries to let them in? This guy needs to be arrested and prosecuted immediately.
Klasra is generally very good with inside info. But the way he’s written this story, leaves strange gaps: like how the family came by this information? why hasn’t the former commissioner not be arrested yet? etc etc etc.
I am sure this story will not die, and more will come out with time and some of these questions will be answered hopefully.
As for myself, I stand 100% behind the officers and jawans staking and sacrificing their lives for me and my country.
@Shirkuh
I would not reject the whole report out of hand as an afsana. I agree there are gaps in the report, but the family of the officer could not be utter fools to make completely unbelievable claims, nor is Rauf Klasra a two penny sensationalist journalist.
Following Website has been built for info about IDPs
http://helpidp.org/
Brelvi Ulema support Operation against Taliban Terrorists
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/12-suicide-attacks-are-un-islamic-ulema–bi-10
@Shikra
“INCOMPETENT leadership ” >>>> Only lifetime-leadership of PTI i.e. IK a.k.a Taliban Khan is competent that’s why no elections in PTI in 13 years !
@Gul
I think you got the message.
“I would not reject the whole report out of hand as an afsana. I agree there are gaps in the report, but the family of the officer could not be utter fools to make completely unbelievable claims, nor is Rauf Klasra a two penny sensationalist journalist.”
They were captured and had no weapons and broke the necks of 8 Talibans??? Maybe, but I have my reservations. If a story is presented with such COLORFUL heroics, then the whole article is under scrutiny for an outsider like me (none of us was present), but off course one can understand the difficult times of the family, who lost a son a precious life.
Rauf Klasra: I don’t know much about him, but my principle is to analyse each and every article. Pakistan is so heavily infested with all kind of malpractices that one MUST be alert all the time. Off course the likes of Nazir Nach-ni requires extra reservations.
And this one seems as an even bigger “bongiaN” from habitual liars. The PPP high-ups might have said that, but to fulfil the promise is another story. Only time will tell.
“Even the parents and sisters of the martyred captain gave their voice to this demand that operation should be continued and the sacrifice of their son should not be wasted. When Dr Awan returned to Islamabad late night, he immediately talked to the PM Gilani about the demand of the parents of the martyred captain and Gilani announced to approve the college in Kahuta, which might greatly make the whole family happy.”
@incogito-Ergoistic-Scum
“Only lifetime-leadership of PTI i.e. IK a.k.a Taliban Khan is competent that’s why no elections in PTI in 13 years !”
I don’t know, but “Yes”, it’s too bad. Should not be like that.
Btw: Do they elect leaders in f. ex. PPP or the terrorist organization called MQM?
Shyema Sajjad questions the Taliban and their latest tactic for survival.
http://dawntravelshow.com/dblog/2009/05/18/shaving-for-survival/
Latest reports claim that the Taliban are shaving off their beards to escape the operation in Swat. The Taliban have maintained that the beards are a sign of being a devoted and true Muslim. Perhaps that is why the Afghani Taliban had gone to the extent of measuring the beards of normal citizens out on the streets of Kabul. Perhaps that is why beard trimmers have been jailed by the ‘religious police’.
http://www.rawa.org/beard2.htm
Perhaps that is also why the Taliban have vandalised barber shops in Buner and threatened barbers to stop cutting hair and trimming beards.
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/nwfp/09-taliban-shave-men-for-listening-to-music-in-buner–04
So why bring in the razors now?
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/07-pakistan-troops-kill-55-militants-in-swat-operation-01
Already listed as the modern-day barbarians, these men have now taken to shaving off their supposed ‘identity’ in order to escape without being noticed by the Pakistan military. Clever tactic but is it worth shedding off their religious beliefs for? Or do their beliefs allow them to go clean shaven if it’s about the question of their survival?
@Shirk
“Do they elect leaders in f. ex. PPP or the terrorist organization called MQM?”
Are you really out of mind ? How dare you compare Pissed Tehreek-e-Insaaf (PTI) with infidel PPP and MQM ?
Don’t you ever do it again !
Otherwise Clean-Shave moulvi life-time Chairman of Pissed TI will kick you out of Pisse TI
@Cogito
I am not comparing them. I wouldn’t even compare PPP with MQatilM.
Don’t get mad. I am just asking you
Don’t you agree that MQM is in fact a terrorist organisation and it’s leader Altaf “Kalia” is sitting in London and pulling the strings?
Can you give a plain answer?
@Shirk
I don’t think by criticising Clean-Shave Moulvi Taliban Khan urf Imran Khan I’ve become a MQM-supporter !
So you’d better ask this question to a MQM-supporter !
@Cogito
Yes, you are right that IK is clean shaven “mullah”
Btw: Do you agree that MQM is a terrorist organisation?
@Shirkuh
I agree with you on everything abt MQM.
I think Haider Abbass Rizvi is the only respecatble and capable man MQM has…He should leave this terrorist organization and use his talent somewhere else.
@Shirkuh
I agree with you on everything abt MQM.
I think Haider Abbass Rizvi is the only respecatble and capable man MQM has…He should leave this terrorist organization and use his talent somewhere else.
@pak.nukes
It’s strange that @cogito is not a MQM member (according to himself), but he stil refuses to take s stand about MQM.
Come on, Mr. Cogito….please get out of the closet!
@pak.nukes
“@Shirkuh
I agree with you on everything abt MQM.
I think Haider Abbass Rizvi is the only respecatble and capable man MQM has…He should leave this terrorist organization and use his talent somewhere else.” >>>> Et tu, Brute?
Shirk was declaring Haider Rizvi as “Joseph Goebbels” on another thread
http://pkpolitics.com/2009/05/08/imran-khans-letter-to-gordon-brown/
@Cogito
You keep on avoiding my question, sir
Please enlighten us about your stand about MQM.
@Shirk
“It’s strange that @cogito is not a MQM member (according to himself), but he stil refuses to take s stand about MQM.”
I’m a Karachi’ite and I know very well about political dynamics of Karachi !
While i support MQM for being a middle-class party which sent poor middle class men and women to the parliament, I also support MQM for their straight-forward approach on Lal Masjid and Taliban’s issue, I also support MQM for the development work in Karachi during last four years. However, I don’t like Altaf as MQM’s leader for me Farooq Sattar or Haider Rizvi could be much better than Altaf, I also don’t support MQM for their confrontational policies in 80′s and 90′s, I also condemn MQM for 12 May mayhem, however I also condemn ANP, Pissed TI and PPP Jiyalas as they were also involved in acts of killings on that fateful day ! BTW do you really think only MQM goons were holding fire-arms and members of other parties holding olive branches ?
For me all the parties including JI, PPP, MQM, ANP, and Pissed TI have been involved in acts of terrorism.
Don’t you remember Al-Badar, Al-Shams, Al-Zulfiqar and Thunder Squad ???
BTW on 3rd May not more than three hundred Pissed TIans blocked main Shahrae Faisal and attacked private vehicles there !!! What do you think they could have done if they were in even thousands ???
Is it correct that Altaf Hussain has joined a club to learn martial arts. He needs to protect himself. After all he has many enemies
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_d8bF7KBsmHI/SQlDtcC-f-I/AAAAAAAACMY/8gDcl6mRqGY/s400/retard_nunchucks.jpg
btw: Altaf has been using “Fair & lovely”. That explains the change of color or is he just a chameleon?
@Cogito
Just to get the terms correct. Is this what you call terrorism?
“BTW on 3rd May not more than three hundred Pissed TIans blocked main Shahrae Faisal and attacked private vehicles there !!! What do you think they could have done if they were in even thousands ???”
@Cogito
I think you have a better understanding of many issues than many of your fellow MQM friends, but you are still marked by the victims role. If any other party commits a mistake/crime that does not give you rights to retaliate or use the particular event to take the law in your own hand. That is what MQM has been all about. They need to get into main stream political life!
@Mogito-Qrgo-Mum (MQM) said:
@Shirk
“It’s strange that @cogito is not a MQM member (according to himself), but he stil refuses to take s stand about MQM.”
I’m a Karachi’ite and I know very well about political dynamics of Karachi !
While i support MQM for being a middle-class party which sent poor middle class men and women to the parliament, I also support MQM for their straight-forward approach on Lal Masjid and Taliban’s issue, I also support MQM for the development work in Karachi during last four years. However, I don’t like Altaf as MQM’s leader for me Farooq Sattar or Haider Rizvi could be much better than Altaf, I also don’t support MQM for their confrontational policies in 80’s and 90’s, I also condemn MQM for 12 May mayhem…..,”
So only condemn? are you sure?
@Shirk
I’ve told you I’m not a member of MQM and i’m not gonna defend it on any wrong-doing !
Now tell me Why Clean-Shave Moulvi a.k.a Taliban Khan doesn’t condemn Taliban savages ?
Why Pissed TI hasn’t organise any rally to condemn Talibans’ attrocities on poor Swatis ?
Why Taliban Khan didn’t arrange any Press Conference to condemn suicide bombings ?
Hope you’d come with simple answers i/o BS !
@shirkuh
Once an MQM always an MQM else …khalaas ker do saalay ko….
@zahidbinmustafa
“So only condemn? are you sure? ”
Well, what else you want me to do
Do you want me to declare them indian agents
Do you want me to invite Pak Army to launch another operation like the one started in 1992
Guys gotta go, take care n peace
@Cogito
What is your stand on the Bhatta collecting activities?
And should MQM be dissolved an re-emerge as a clean politcial party with a new name, new leadership i.e. people with a clean track record? I mena no killings, no violence, no bhatta collection, no intimidation etc. (minor incidents are OK). Do you think it is a possibility?
Mogito-Qrgo-Mum said:
“@zahidbinmustafa
“So only condemn? are you sure? ”
Well, what else you want me to do
Do you want me to declare them indian agents
Do you want me to invite Pak Army to launch another operation like the one started in 1992
”
I am not asking for operation but for this crime atleast MQM “would avoid storming on high court and allow them” for free and transparent probe of 12th May massacre. According to you, taliban deserve military operation for killing and harassment of people but why are you silent on killing and harassment of people by MQM?
By the way, what is your version on MQM’s women rights issue?
you are playing on “bad” pitch. understand
@Shirkuh
“I am glad you raised the issue yourself. At least you didn’t get carried away by this “afsana” as easily as your friend MT.”
I’m not blind supporter of either party, my anti-taliban comments are based on rational.
All those who say insurgencies can’t be crushed militarily please watch LTTE’s ending today. LTTE supremo Prabhakaran was shot head today after being cornered to 100 x 100 sq meter area. The pioneers of suicide bombing are defeated today after 25 long years today. The Kahlistan and Jinnah Pur movements were also crushed in 1990′s. I am confident Taliban movement’d embrace same fate ….
Haroon Rashid agian spitting venom against politicians.
He has gone mad in hatred against PPP pmln ANP.
I DOnt know why this pessimist is invited in every show?
He is retarded and fixed.
Nadeem malik also is trying to confuse people more ann more.
If some party is against action say openely in meeting. munafiqs infront of meting endorse action then in media say we have TUHAFUZAAT.
@Muhammad Usman
You are spot on…Haroon Rashid is a mouth piece for JI/PTI. He can analyze well when he is unbiased but he is rarely unbiased…He always projects IK and JI which is not that harmful under normal circumstances but these days when we are going through operation its suicidal. Its very close to treason.
@Cogito-Ergo-Sum
I commend your balanced political stance. There are some indefensibles by MQM that Karchiites should condemn. There are some goods by MQM that rest of the country should recognize. It is very important to bridge the political gulf. Same goes for IK. His charity should be universally acclaimed but his politics is nightmare and should be broadly condemned especially his pro Taliban and pro JI senseless approach.
APC endorsed Swat offensive: Kaira
http://geo.tv/5-18-2009/42366.htm
ISLAMABAD: Federal Information Minister Qamar Zaman Kaira has said that all political parties have fully supported the ongoing military offensive against the insurgents in Swat.
Addressing a news conference here on Monday, he said: “All parties unanimously approved a resolution in favour of the Swat operation.”
The resolution called for unity of nation against the insurgency in Swat and other parts of Malakand.” The APC also endorsed the Oct 22 parliament’s resolution in which it was said that the constitution and the security of Pakistan would be safeguarded.
Despite all my reservations am gonna follow all parties leadership decision. Lets hope for the best. I will put aside all my prejudices and my concerns and trust the political leadership of my country one more time. God bless Pakistan.
Qazi at his best.
http://jang.com.pk/jang/may2009-daily/18-05-2009/up78.gif
“Kal log shidat passando ki waja se museebat mein the, aaj lakhoon log govt ki waja se”
No one could challenge these mullas when it comes to hypocrisy.
“Kal log shiddat passandoon ki waja se museebat mein the” after this statement how could Jamat-e-Ibhami support talibans, spin and confuse people if you get some mileage and forget about country, our politicians suck big time on every account.
JI munafiqeen
JI and PTI agreed to support Army and Government during APC despite differences but as soon as they came out they are back to their usual pre-APC anti operation rhetoric. Its disgusting. They should have walked out of APC if they wanted to do that. Fazul ur Rehman even didn’t oppose operation in the meeting. It ‘d be interresting to see how he will behave in coming days. Also can Nawaz Sharif tone down Khawaja Saad Rafiq’s operation bashing ?
“Zeyada tar taliban pashtu ya farsi ke bajai kissi doosri zaban mein baat kartay hain”
http://jang.com.pk/jang/may2009-daily/18-05-2009/up87.gif
Taliban supporters and jamat-e-ibhami could you please let us know which language your heroes speak?
@Kashif
—
…Also can Nawaz Sharif tone down Khawaja Saad Rafiq’s operation bashing ?…
—
It is very easy to tone down his rhetoric; ask him to propose a solution for this problem and he will start looking into his armpits!
Did Zardari attend the APC? If not then what was the reason for him not attending it?
I think nawaz sharif and shabaz are completly on board.
The people like khawaja saad may have their own opinion. We should nor mind litte disagreement as long as leadership is in agreement.
Dont agree with saad. Endorse points raised by ayaz amir in last few columns.
@Kashif
I was in opinion that Imran Khan could do wonders if he forms a govt, I was also trying to convince this in my circle, but I have lost all hopes in Taliban Khan, at the end he is just a politician, to be even more specific he is nothing but Jamat-e-ibhami’s sidekick.
@savage
IK is definitely JI’s side kick. Thats why he speaks out so loud and clear against MQM’s militancy but doesn’t say a word about IJT’s ghunda gardi even when he himself was first hand victim of that. Imran was leading a movement against Mushraaf from Punjab University and IJT leadership man handled him and then handed him over to police. On one hand I was glad that this will open IK’s eyes but I was disgusted when he rushed back to Qazi’s lap ….
Latest article on Pakistan in NewYork Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/19/world/asia/19trash.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
Destroying pakistan to make it safe, zardari killing pakistanis for more american dollars in swiss accounts
uh oh!
http://www.daily.pk/world/asia/10199-destroying-pakistan-to-make-it-safe-zardari-killing-pakistanis-for-more-american-dollars-in-swiss-accounts.html
The Milatary action is not a black and white issue. So please stop calling names. I have supported the military action but I should respect a difference of opinion. There are people who genuinely feel that this is not the way to tackle the issue. East Pakistan debackle is deeply embedded in our psyche. So please cut some slack to IK and Qazi and Saad Rafiqu. And from the little I know Saad RAfiq is a very genuine and patriotic Pakistani.
Secondly they raise some very serious points.
1. Why did the Govt not make arrangements for the displaced people. Army is supposed to have alerted them about this as per news reports
2. The timing of the operation was too convenient for the Snake’s visit to US
3. The only beneficiary of the failure of the Peace accord is US, how convenient! Remember they did not approve it.
4. The drone attacks are the main recruiting tool for TTP.
5. The US has always disapproved any peace deals. Remember the Waziristan deal at Mushi’s time
6. The state of Pakistan will emerge weaker from this crisis whatever the outcome.
These are very serious observation that I find difficult to dispute.
BTW what kept The Snake away from the APC Photo Op.
I think NS has banned him from appearing in the same room!!! What with his(NS’s) stratospheric popularity. I already see some of my Sindhi friends in Europe having a change of heart about their commitment to PPP.
Here comes the official landing of US forces on Pakistan soil. What a plan by Obama and Zardari!!
http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=78049
Was Benazir Bhutto assassinated by US to make way for Zardari
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtGxXEnktZU&feature=related
WHY DON’T WE SHOOT THIS BASTARD ZARDARI AND FINISH OFF THE SNKAE AND HIS RETARD SON.KILL THESE BASTARDS.THEY’RE TRAITORS. POLITICIANS ARE BASTARDS.
Shaving for survival?
http://dawntravelshow.com/dblog/2009/05/18/shaving-for-survival/
I loved this excerpt:
How come the rules have not been relaxed then if a woman is dying and has a doctor at hand but one who can’t do much to save her because he is a man? Women have died of curable ailments just because male doctors were not allowed to touch them. Does that not come into the debate of survival? Or are women exempted from this exemption list?
@Tauqeer Akbar
You may want to read this editorial from Dawn, if you haven’t done it already:
Cheney ordered assassination of Benazir Bhutto: Hersh
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/world/12-cheney-ordered-assassination-of-benazir-bhutto–bi-01
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D23ewag8Zt8
(1:40 – 4:54) This is funny, but sad…
Before going to USA zarDAKU signs NAR, which was endorsed by the parliament, But when he reaches in usa, suddenly the operation starts, then we have 2 million IDP’s, then a bomb blast in Peshawar, and then a APC endorsing
the operation..
And then: “Zardari has achieved US tour objectives”
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20095\12\story_12-5-2009_pg7_45
Anyway, I’m not against the operation, but the way it has been carried out, it’s going to create more terrorists, than kill.
And Shah mehmood’s statement that: “USA is satisfied with the operation” casts more doubts in my mind regarding the objectives of the operation..
@Amir Hameed
“Cheney ordered assassination of Benazir Bhutto: Hersh”
and denied by Hersh
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20095\19\story_19-5-2009_pg7_4
What to believe?
@sic5770
“Here comes the official landing of US forces on Pakistan soil. What a plan by Obama and Zardari!!”
The aid would include packaged Halal meals, water trucks and tents. “We’re looking at providing assistance in those three categories, and potentially in other areas,” he said
Watch out for the meat. What is the need of sending halal meat from US. Halal meat is cheap and easily available in Pakistan.
Thousands of Pigs were killed because of Swine flu. Who knows the meat is Halal or Haram.
^ it would probably be ridden with gay germs.
I would rather buy meta form dubai than bumreeka. they don’t differentiate between swines and cows how do we know if the cow meat hasn’t been inflicted with swine blood since they’re all cut in the same place.