by Dr M.B. Tashkandi, MD, PhD, D.Litt
What is tolerance? The definition changes every time this question is posed to a different person. A concise and all-encompassing definition can, however, be found in the DSM IV, the medical dictionary of mental illnesses as: “the ability to live and let others live. It is the ability to exercise a fair and objective attitude towards those whose opinions, practices, religion, nationality and so on differ from one’s own”. In a more layperson turn of phrase, Rodney King jr. can be cited as the paragon of brevity when he said: “Why can’ we all just get along?”
Now compare this with intolerance. What is intolerance? It is the practice of not appreciating the beliefs, practices, opinions and ideas of others.
Why care about tolerance?
As the national debate rages on the military operation in Swat, I have heard many intelligent Pakistanis ask: “How can we be tolerant of those who are intolerant of us?” They ask this question in reference to the Taliban who are intolerant of the Republic, its constitution, the judiciary and democracy. For these Pakistanis, tolerating intolerance is being outrageously intolerant of humanity. Are they correct?
Divisive issues like this make the task of promoting tolerance almost impossible. The task of easing hostilities and lowering the temperature between groups and ideological zealots cannot, however, be accomplished without a certain degree of intolerant tolerance. How, you ask? Simple. Just tolerate the little intoleranecs of the intolerant group and thus lower the temperature by backing down, lowering the metaphorical guns and, just simply, you know, tolerate. A peaceable behavior like that is critical in solving intractable conflict.
A little tolerance and acceptance of the others’ point of view goes a long way in helping groups understand and relate to each other. In situations where severe psychological trauma resulting from relentless persecution, online or otherwise, seems to have been inflicted on unsuspecting victims, a little soothing touch, a little heart-to-heart can ease the pain of suffering and humiliation. A gentle touch, a kind smile can go, not a short distance, in healing hearts and minds.
Not a man alive today can say this without truthfulness that tolerance and understanding are natural and noteworthy in allowing differing viewpoints to coexist peacefully.
Not a particular necessity, but the need for the ‘victim’ group to regain a sense of dignity, lost due to humiliation and exposure to ridicule, can help in bridging the gaps between the groups.
None of the above, however, would happen if intolerance was to be tolerated for any extended period of time. In scenarios like this, politically charged groups may continue to feel victimized and may find it difficult to tolerate those who are trying to overcome their intolerance. This is classic Stockholm Syndrome as the victim identifies with the persecutor more than fellow victims. This is predicated on the premise that the sheer act of intolerance necessitates upon both the transactional groups the identification of ‘victim.’ The persecuted and the persecutor both end up being victims because they lose a part of their common humanity if one of them uses hatred and revenge as the cornerstone of all financial, emotional, psychological and comical transactions.
No takers will be found in the family of humanity for proud acceptance of dehumanization and degradation meted out daily by one group of humans to others who are considered subhuman, inferior and developmentally challenged. Yet this is how the affairs of God’s green earth have been settled since Eve decided to be tolerant to the talking snake.
Negation of true acceptance drives groups away from each other and widens the gulf that had existed before. The act of tolerance is an act of belief, a leap of faith in the reversed polarity, in the ‘Others’ mirror image of our common humanity. If that leap of faith is half-hearted, the initiator of the leap risks falling yet again in the intractable and dark moats of despair and mutual hatred.
Naiveté of the agreeable groups or individuals however can be a perpetual source of renewal for intolerance and prejudice. This simplicity in thought and behavior sometimes can be unpredictable where events lead to situations which were not in the original script. Thus, the initial steps necessary for successful promotion of tolerance are: cleaning of the public space by avoiding nasty, naughty and, naturally, dirty language. Such dirty behavior exhibits inherent character traits of the offending individual or group more than it reflects on the dignity and esteem of the individual or group to whom such language is addressed. And finally, the cessation of avoidable challenges taken by the intolerant minority in the vain hope of forcing their view points on the tolerant majority
_____________________________________
Dr M.B. Tashkandi, MD, PhD, D.Litt
Associate Dean, Institute of Psychoceramics, Department of Psychology
Brown University, USA
Visiting Scholar, National College of Arts, Lahore
The author of this Article holds MD, Ph D, DLitt and the same qualifications are also held by our Sindhi Topi Wala President. That’s why He asked the Parliament to abolish the Degree holder restrictions.
““the ability to live and let others live. It is the ability to exercise a fair and objective attitude towards those whose opinions, practices, religion, nationality and so on differ from one’s own”
People in Pakistan, sadly, lack this above mentioned Ability.
“on the tolerant majority”
I also don’t believe that the majority in Pakistan is tolerant. I think it’s the minority that’s tolerant. Examples would be, if the majority was tolerant;
a) Qadyanis would have never been declared non-muslims…and wouldn’t be subjected to such extreme discrimination.
b) There would be as much hue and cry over mukhtara mai’s gang rape as there was over Muhammad’s cartoons.
I think intolerance in Pakistan is systematic and apparent, in all personal, social, administrative, political and religious conducts.
I don’t think problem here is tolerance. Pakistani people are the most tolerable on the face of earth who have tolerated most disgusted rulers on this earth.
This lecture needs to be given to hillary clinton, barack obama and western think tanks who started building massive pressure on pakistan to launch a military action against its own people.
Why can’t secularists tolerate Islamic Code of living?
It is a reality that Pakistan economy is driven based on donations so civil/military establishment must adhere to donors policies or else get ready face the consequences.
Elite generals & oligarchy families who control Pakistan do not care about suffering of common man, they just want to be the most obedient servants to the super power.
So teach these tolerance lectures to those in the America & Europe!
@JanuJerman Khan
Why can’t you tolerate Secularists?
“Elite generals & oligarchy families who control Pakistan do not care about suffering of common man, they just want to be the most obedient servants to the super power.”
Common man needs to care for himself, because if he did then he wouldn’t have had oligarchy families and elite general.
the question is what do we tolerate more
secularism vs radicalism
HAHAHA
tolerance
the culture of the sub continent has been tolerating crap for centuries. mughals used to be invaded by all sorts of invaders every now and then and all they did was tolerate, smoke hash and chill. its in our blood, culture and religion (this type of tolerance is not acceptable even in our peace loving religion)
for this reason everyone stays aloof from all the crap that others keep dropping here (the common man @zia cant do shit partly for this reason)
this is no time to sit back and see the fireworks, calling it tolerance rather than incapabilities . pakistan needs no more of those who love tolerating.
I agree, tolerance is not our problems. We have endured to much pain at the hands of our leaders and tolerated it for far to long. Yet when we the people have stood up then we have also had success by the way. Example: the lawyers movement and the overthrow of Ayub’s government.
However our real problem is the ability of our leaders to explain there position on any matter or the lack thereof. For example no leader of ours has explained to our citizens that their are good Taliban’s and their are bad Taliban’s. We, hopefully our fighting the bad Taliban’s or at least we should be. If these bad Taliban’s are abusing our religion and there is every indication that they are, then we should explain to our people, where the abuse lies. Then again you cannot expect, a leader like Zardari who has no credibility to explain this. No one will believe him even if he is right. Thus the need to have an expert to present the other side.
You can use the same Equation for almost all our problems. The Americans for example are paranoid about security since 9/11. But then almost every action they have taken has back fired on them because it has been an action coming from the heart not from the mind. Iraq was a wrong invasion. Afghanistan was ill planned. Iran has not been handled diplomatically, Israel policy is so one sided that they cannot ever have peace there. And by the way the epic center does not lie in Pakistan, it lied in Palestine. (Again no leader in Muslim world to explain our side of story). Egypt perhaps takes the biggest blame as when Israel attacked Gaza from three side, guess what our own Muslim brothers would not open the border not even for sick, women and children. No one has cried foul.
All this because there is no one to speak on behalf of our (Islamic) cause. As I said this lack of expression, which by the way stems from lack of education, experience and intellectual ability of our leaders is our problem. It is a epidemic amongst our leaders.
The recent call for APC proved my point. No one came out and explained to our people what is going on. They should have said, we are going to defeat the bad Taliban’s, make friends with good Taliban’s, ban carrying of all guns in NWFP, and anyone not obeying the laws of the nation will be punished accordingly. IDPs should now be trained to report all suspicious persons in their area and financial rewards should be given to informers. They made a call for APC to discuss governments policy. They came out supporting army action. Talk about tolerance. We put up with much more then that.
It saddens me that a Doctor, PhD etc etc is beating drums about tolerance. What do we all do from the moment we get up to the moment we go to sleep. We tolerate the inefficiencies of our rulers, year after year for the last 60 years.
Thank you pkpolitics….All ‘intellectuals’ here must practise tolerance.
I am anti America and anti Taliban, I strongly disagree with Pakistan’s foreign policy which is made in Washington DC and I disapprove and condemn Taliban’s version of Islam. The pro-secular elements in this forum try to impose their version of Islam which is as pathetic as Taliban’s, on everyone..The religion of convenience has no room in Islam yet I respect everyone’s opinion but it is unfortunate that these elements ridicule those who wear burqas or hijab….What is wrong with burqa or hijab? Does this make women/people pro-Taliban? Women in Saudi Arabia and Iran wear hijab and it is mandatory there. Does this make them lesser being than any of those who wear tank tops and spaghetti straps?
The only person you can change is yourself so please stop belittling those who opt to wear hijab and start taking pride in being Muslims and Pakistanis and stick to it, half our problems would be solved.
Nations who do not respect their traditions are not respected by anyone because they lose their identity and originality.
Whether or not you accept others’ point of view, respect and endure it.
@pak.nukes
Well said. I totally agree with you!
IMO there is a need to be more tolerant both in terms of tolerating people of other ethnicity, religious school and political affiliation. In some parts of Pakistan it is more urgent than others.
I think Punjab is one of the most tolerant areas. Look at how many different ethnic, political and religious groups lives in this area. The tolerance level is good but should be improved further f.ex. through marriages across ethnic belonging. Let’s destroy these barriers of the past (Hindu heritage).
The tolerance level in other provinces may be even lower. The way forward is to remove some of the genuine obstacles, teaching in tolerance and mathematics (Punjab is the most populous province and hence you will find them in big numbers everwhere).
@scary
@januJerman Kjan
Pakistani nation has tolerated crooks rulers and elite class and bureaucracy but that will not make us a tolerant society. I guess tolerating a different point of view, groups and individuals who are different in color, religion and beliefs is different from tolerating crooks.
Tolerating collective abuse as a nation at the hands of a few is shame and will not be classified as a national quality. Though it remains important as how we react to this group of people and parties.
We as a nation ar rich at this shameful kind of tolerance but we lack the quality of desired tolerance towards each other and pkpolitics forum gives us a glimpse of that.
I agree wholeheartedly with Dr. MB Taskhandi. Such prose, such flights of fancy, such turns of phrase. Truly, tolerating intolerance is totally intolerant tolerance. Rarely have I seen a point driven home with such fierce clarity!!!!زبان پر عبور دیکھیں
Anyway, I take this opportunity to call on the ‘naraz group’ to forgive and forget in the spirit of “Challa” by Shaukat Ali.
i definitely also don’t think the problem here is “tolerance” instead the problem is not havving “awareness”. our people need to be aware of what they really want from our country and how they can achieve it. the awareness of differentiating between right and wrong. once, we are able to do this, the problem starts finishing soon.
@Resident evil
I agree that we severly lack tolerance. But the two examples you quote are not relevent at all.
1 – Re Qadiani issue: Declaring them non-muslim is not an issue of tolerance, however their subsequent persecution is. They were declared non-muslims becaue they had fundamentally different belief than muslims. However once declared non-muslims they should have the same rights as any other non-muslim.
2- Your comparison of the cartoon issue with Mukhtara mMai is completely out of order. The cartoon issue was a deliberate attempt to hurt the feelings og more than a billion muslim population across the globe, and protesting against thtat was our fundamental right (violence during that was totally inappropriate). The case of Mukhtara Mai is a criminal act committed by a few against an individual and should have been dealt by the criminal procedures as per law. Lack of Implementation of that doesnot equate to intolerance of 170 million Pakistanis. Actually, if at all, we have been very “tolerant” (of criminals) and did not make much hue and cry!!!!!
Taking the example of the Western countries, you may be aware of the arrest of a famous British historian who said that figures of “holocaust” were exaggerated. Denying holocaust is not allowed in some of the western countries and can lead to arrest and imprisonment. The same countries allow cartoons under the umbrella of freedom of speech!!!! But having said that, western countries are more tolerant than us.
Kind regards
Being a Pakistani above all an Orthodox Muslim I don’t have such Tolerance Level As & when I watch & listen such followings:
Read the followings first Statements a few times.
As all time in the history of Pakistan Politics the most discussed Controversial President Zardari Said:
“India did not violate the laws of war and made marked improvements in its Air fighting capability during the recent past military =Surgical Strike Operation= against Pakistan.”
“We have =No= Danger with India.”
& above all “President Bush Policies were blessed for the PEACE of World.”
Indian Officials at Afghanistan in form of 17 Consulate-Generals.”One has to have a serious disconnect with reality to swallow the first part of that sentence, and a heart of stone for the second. Killing thereafter their respective DISPLACEMENT – IDPs in numerous quantities at Iraq, Afghanistan & Pakistan kids and women is a “marked improvement in its fighting capability”? An absolutely ==DIABOLICAL Attitude== that brings shame on the Zardari & his Elite Force, India, America and all Israelis – whatever country live in.
And the Nation is not stopping voting for these killers and criminals before they lead them into more murder and theft.
Why: Because they do such Tolerance But I do not have!
@pak nukes
my question is if burqa really islam or it is culture
we should differentiate culture with religion
Still the level of Parda is debated among various scholars and schools of thought.
The problem is not weather or not anyone wears hijab/burqa.The issue is the same people many times who insist on parda want to force prayers and then will ask you grow beard and so forth.
This is the real issue that the interpretation of obligatory hijab leads to obligatory prayers and then obligatory beard by the same people and school of thought
So where do we stop?
Would all the scholars say that once in power they would not enforce religon on other people.The difference between Taliban and religous parties(JI,JUI) is how to get to power and once there all of them have the same interpratations and is forceful obedience in the name of god and peace.
and that is exactly why people of pakistan never voted for these religous parties to get them to power
This is alarming situation when difference opinion and thought be responded with abuse and complete unethical set of sentences.One should have freedom of thought and speech but one should NOT cross the limits of respect and morality ( as many often do here) because it wont bring any healthy change in society rather it will create more violence and division in society.
Many friends here start using abuses and all 3rd grade language of PPP leadership,though you have right to criticise their actions and policies if you dont favour but using all kinds of very abusive langauge and even talking dirty langauge against Shaheed Benazir bhutto will not be favour to country because it will fuel more hatred and distrubance.Plz respect the norms.Come up with psoitive criticism and BUT be careful before fueling politics of vandetta and chauvanism.
Thanks
I really do not understand what the debate is all about. We do not get electricity, we tolerate, we do not get clean water, we tolerate, we do not get medical attention, we tolerate, our politicians lie to us every day, we tolerate, most people do not have jobs, they tolerate, our dictators lie to us every day, we tolerate.
It worries me that a so called “visiting scholar” can only end up be suggesting that we need to think if we are a good tolerant society. Look at his self gloating credentials:Dr M.B. Tashkandi, MD, PhD, D.Litt
Associate Dean, Institute of Psychoceramics, Department of Psychology
Brown University, USA
Visiting Scholar, National College of Arts, Lahore
Maybe we should be concentrating on having better professors!!
@Saeed Afzal
Will you please stop disrespecting Sindhi topi? Grow up and learn to respect other cultures.
This is the standard of some right wing pro-taliban blog users who abuse everyone who writes a sensible and eye-opening information. These blog users are very conservative and extremist mostly from PTI of Imran Taliban Khan. There is no difference between Pakistani extremists pressure group Jamat Gher Islami and Shivseena of India; both promote hatred and intolerance and Imran Taliban Khan is also going on same path of inolerance and extremism.
@Dr M.B. Tashkandi
Very good information and message of tolerance
I read every single word of your assessment and it is eye-opening and thought provoking. But my friend you are writing on a forum which is infested with pro-Taliban extremists spearheaded by Saeed Afzal. Due to his low level of intelligence and ongoing treatment at a menta asylum facility, he cannot understand the logic and reason you have used in your well-explained article. But we do have some intelligent people on this Blog (like Mir Munsif )who promote tolerance on this Blog. I like your message of tolerance. Keep up the good work; we need more people like you. Unfortunately extremist on this Blog and in Pakistan too do not respect a learned and well educated professor like you but you have my full support and I value your comments.
@AClarionCall
”Meri Dua hai Allah Aap ko Dimagh de”
When you call Imran Khan taliban khan is it not an exterimism?
If our people stop eating hot and spicy foods, they could be more tolerant…:)
We are walking burning coals. Always ready for brawls.
aey insaan dosrey ki aankh ke tinkey ko dekhney se pehley apni aankh ke shehteer ko dekh – Hadrath Eisa – Holy bible
Yeh haal hai liberal fascists ka, they swear at everyone who disagrees with them then ask for tolerance in debate- Hai hai hypocrisy. Calling everyone JI, IK all mullah and anyone who disagree with them hypocrites is like pot calling kettle black lol
@AClarionCall:
You are not less than a liberal fascist. when did Imran khan supported Taliban and their actions instead he always supported to handle this issue politically instead of killing own people with foreign pressure.
I am not PTI worker and disagree some of Imran kran policies but I appreciate his sensible point of view in the present crisis.
Dont you people see the parties who were making hue and cry day and nights for operation, now have run away from the responsibility of IDP’s and now banning thier enterance in sindh , no acitivity of help is being seen from these bunch of warmongers but on the hand PTI, JI, and Tehreek e insaaf which were against the operation are fully involved in helping the poor victims.
MQM Altaf Hussain , Choran wala, few weeks before operation was shouting in his typical choran wala style and demanding operation but now forcing till his black ass to ban the poor victims to enter in the Karachi. What a shameless characters these politicians have.
tch tch tch…Such polarization in a thread on tolerance. Reminds me of this:
تماشا! کہ اے محوِ آئینہ داری
تجھے کس تمنّا سے ہم دیکھتے ہیں
بنا کر فقیروں کا ہم بھیس غالب
تماشائے اہلِ کرم دیکھتے ہیں
@pak.nuke
First time you write more than two lines and I like it
Tolerence is the main guiding princple of Islam which is missing among majority of Pakistanis. The prime example is this forum where many writers use abusive language and not willing to listen others views.
As a Muslim, it is our responsibility to help displaced people but these people should be confined to the camps and when the situation become normal they should return to their houses.
These people are misfit in other provinces because of their culture and tradition. They never mix with local population even they lived their 20-30 years. These people better fit in their own culture and areas, that is FATA and NWFP.
Punjab and Sindh already warned that these people should not be allowed to move into citires but at the same time we must help them until they return to their houses.
Imran Khan can not be a good politician, he does not possess ingrideint of a good politician. I had seen his time in cricket where he was like a dictator and damaged career of many good cricketers because of his ego.
Furthermore, where are his supporters and where is his base in Pakistan. I do not see many Pakistanis go alongwith him.
@jazoo
Thank you. I would love to write more but unfortunately I have no time to write more than a couple of lines…my life is just too full of mess and commitments.:)
KIYA KEH RAHAY HO MUSHTAQ??!!1?!
What the heck was that?
Its like’ Iqbal and Goethe ‘Joke Where after abusing everyone in Khalis punjabi the speaker mentions ‘Iqbal and Goethe’ every 10 seconds.
“‘tolerating intolerance is being outrageously intolerant of humanity. Are they correct?”
clarity of thought is being outrageously absent from a muddled mind. Am I correct?
Tolerance is a noble idea. What you are saying is , only you know.
@Jutt kharak
Are you calling Dr Tashkandi’s article a jalaibi? I believe its a pretzel
Elektra TV apka hoa
@agrana75
“I am not PTI worker and disagree some of Imran kran policies but I appreciate his sensible point of view in the present crisis. ”
Could you please list few policy differences with Imran Khan. I have seen many people who agree with IK but differ with him on his pro Taliban stance. You are one unique follower who otherwise may differ with him but totally on board on his pro militants position. Please read @freemason’s comments on this thread before reiterating his peaceful negotiations ballony.
i believe i am repeating the questions to A.A.Mansoori since he mentioned salahuddin ayyubi in one of his statements in previous posts
@AAM
what do you know about salahuddin ayubbi?since you have mentioned his name and you want muslims to follow him
I admit he was a great general but do you know what made hime great?
Which battle made him so popular and what strategy was the reason for his success
Do you think he was never defeated?
Do you think he did not make a peace deal with the crusadors
Do you not know that he could not put up a big fight against the crusadors in the end
I hope you have good answers to these questions and able to produce here in a decent manner here
The Times Magazine in late 90s has full article on
“Why Jews should be enemy of Muslims”
And the very reason in that article was, Muslims are the one who opened the gate of Jerusalem for Jews.
First time By Umar Bin Khittab(ra)
Second time by Salauddin Ayubi
Third time today’s Palestinians by selling their properties to Jews
@jatt kharrak
I love this particular pearl of wisdom from doctor sahib. Let me attempt to unwind this jalaibi here a little:
Tolerance is great. Tolerate others’ ideas, their freedoms, their differences (of colour, cast, creed, religion or whatever). But should you come across intolerance, do not tolerate that. Declare Jihad on intolerance. As an example, doctor sahib mentions dirty, or shall I say daarty in desi speak, language somewhere in his article. Should that be tolerated? I think doctor sahib’s talqeen to all is, “No”.
Let’s think about, say, harassment, bullying, abuse, dirty language, sabotage, violence, imposition of one’s ideas or way of life on others by force etc.
None of the above. It should not be tolerated.
A difference in opinion may be aired within parameters of common decency and humanity. That is tolerance. But attacking the different via means mentioned above is intolerance.
O my chappal. I hope I have not confused the matter further.
@Gulbo
What are you trying to get at? It has to be One of the above. Or that it’s No Country for Old Men? darty darty
I would go further than this and say:
I have Nothing Obvious To Add except to say that the Nasty Obscurantist Transitional Androgyns would understand completely. Dr. Tashkandi’s scholarly eccentricities in the realm of alliteration and wordplay complement my own.
Vah Vah
such wisdom, such eloquence.
all hail the wise and wonderful dr tashkandi sahib… I for one as an astute student of psychoceramics endorse every syllable of his holistic view of tolerance
@mbokhari & Gul
“What are you trying to get at? It has to be One of the above. Or that it’s No Country for Old Men? darty darty ”
“Darty…darty” rant should stop now. It has become too childish. Maybe you people are in the teens still sinve you are going against an old man
You people have deprived this site of great contributor by your hate campaign. Let’s get on track and have a debate about opinions instead of this personal vendetta against a single man.
Why don’t you point your guns towards the well known ghost, who is probably the person with the most excessive use of darty, darty words. At least I know no other on this platform who can outmanoeuvre the ghost on this account.
Btw: I sincerely wish all of us could stop the abusive language. Bear in mind ALL of US. That includes me too though I am far from the worst
@Shirkuh
Very well said…..I know how out of this ‘oh so patient’ lot actually whinned to ad-min about us. As I said before they can have all the fun together and party.
I meant ‘I know how many out of ———’
@Shirkuh
I miss it terribly. When it was hanging around here, it caused much aatish baazi. Since it has taken a vow of silence, dunya se parda, the excitement has gone. Let us pay our respects:
@pak.nukes
Come now. Ask it to come back if you are in touch with it. Don’t you know being angry with a muslim more than 3 days nullifies your iman. It must come back if only for the sake of its Iman.
@mbokhari
Just as I could have predicted. A couple of “funny” words combined with a youtube video.
@nota mastered links to great stuff, but you are second to none…..you master the links to youtube videos.
@Shirkuh
So, what’s the news. Is it still angry? Come on. Ainna ghussa ni kareeda.
Oh,by the way, still waiting to continue our discussion of Christine Fair’s book. I want to get some contrary opinion from other people before it could be debated as a workable solution. Any news on @shimatoree? His familiarity with the Army is an asset and many here are interested in his opinions, myself foremost.
@Shirkuh
Some people DON’T change especially at this age…..leave them alone.
@paknukes
you cant help it when burqa and beards are taken up by the misfits in a society. If every loser wears a red shirt than red would be the color looked down on. Can you name one achivement of someone sporting a beard or wearing a hijab in the last 200 years? If you cant than understand that beards and burqa is the uniform for the loser team.
@lota6177
After reading your nick I refuse to answer.
@lota6177
have you ever heard of the following
1. Abdul Sattar Edhi
2. Saeed Anwar
3. Junaid Jamshed
don’t confuse appearances with dogmatic religious belief – its not always applicable.
@gv
have you ever heard of the following
1. Abdul Sattar Edhi have you heard his 2nd wife ran off with money and jewlery. Bilquis edhi has her own foundation now and she would say some good things about him. He is a good fund raiser and provides social services. Is he very unqiue to this world have you heard about mother treasa?
2. Saeed Anwar lost his young daughter and couldnt handle this cruel world. Totally understandable, religion is a crutch for weak people.
3. Junaid Jamshed he was siging for vital signs and now he is singing humad without a keyboard in the background, super
you came back with these three in the last 200 years i am sure you can do better. I rest my case.
don’t confuse appearances with dogmatic religious belief – its not always applicable
@paknukes
sorry if i hurt your feelings dont be naraz bublo.
@gv
“don’t confuse appearances with dogmatic religious belief – its not always applicable.”
Thanks for bringing back sanity in the debate
I have no beard, no turban, no “kitteaN toN ouchi shalwar” and I also visit the barbers shop in between, but still I am a “Taliban lover”. How can we debate when people put wrong stickers on each other?
@lotaeaaaa baaaz aja!
@everyone
Let me deal with this maggot ranjit bajwa first.
@paknuke
@everyone
Let me deal with this maggot ranjit bajwa first
tell everyone you are really cleaning all the bathrooms in your house kaam karna achie baat haie. Dil laga kaie har cheez chamka doo.
@sheikhrasheed urf lota
You want me to take it as a joke? OK…hahahahahahahahahahahahhahaa…..
I hope you now feel happy and accomplished.
@lota
sorry i didn’t realise you meant the last 200 years
well let me think now …
Sir Sayed Ahmad Khan
Aga Khan I (Hassan Ali Shah)
Bacha khan
Maulvi Tamizuddin Khan
Sheikh Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan
King Faisal
King Hussein
President Khatami
All rather hirsute individuals (or so i’m told)
would you like some more?
incidentally – when did i ever disparage dear old mother ‘treasa’ ?
@shirkuh
I have no beard, no turban, no “kitteaN toN ouchi shalwar” and I also visit the barbers shop in between, but still I am a “Taliban lover”. How can we debate when people put wrong stickers on each other?
Your a product of a bad education system lazily trying to make a person of limited intelligence knowledgeable. The end result is a person programmed to think and identify a certain way ;ile sheep that helps people controlling the resources keep things in check. Sheep kie thraw bhaw bhaw kar ka taliban fan club ka president ban jaoe maybe gul khan would give you more attention this way,
Sir Sayed Ahmad Khan
was an Indian educator and politician, and an Islamic reformer and modernist. Sir Syed pioneered modern education for the Muslim community in India by founding the Muhammedan Anglo-Oriental College, which later developed into the Aligarh Muslim University. His work gave rise to a new generation of Muslim intellectuals and politicians who composed the Aligarh movement to secure the political future of Muslims in India. He is widely considered as a ‘traitor’ in leftist and patriotic circles of India.
Born into Mughal nobility, Sir Syed earned a reputation as a distinguished scholar while working as a jurist for the British East India Company. During the Indian Rebellion of 1857 he remained loyal to the British and was noted for his actions in saving European lives. After the rebellion he penned the booklet Asbab-e-Bhaghawath-e-Hind (The Causes of the Indian Mutiny) — a daring critique, at the time, of British policies that he blamed for causing the revolt. Believing that the future of Muslims was threatened by the rigidity of their orthodox outlook, Sir Syed began promoting Western-style scientific education by founding modern schools and journals and organising Muslim intellectuals. Towards this goal, Sir Syed founded the Muhammedan Anglo-Oriental College in 1875 with the aim of promoting social and economic development of Indian Muslims.
One of the most influential Muslim politicians of his time, Sir Syed was suspicious of the Indian independence movement and called upon Muslims to loyally serve the British Raj. He denounced nationalist organisations such as the Indian National Congress, instead forming organisations to promote Muslim unity and pro-British attitudes and activities. Sir Syed promoted the adoption of Urdu as the lingua franca of all Indian Muslims, and mentored a rising generation of Muslim politicians and intellectuals. Although hailed as a great Muslim leader and social reformer, Sir Syed remains the subject of controversy for his views on Hindu-Muslim issues.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syed_Ahmed_Khan
This guy is my hero but would you identify him with him if you have a beard? Do you have anything in common with him is the question?
lota6177
Karl Marx
Sigmund Freud
Lenin
All had beards
@lota
“Your a product of a bad education system lazily trying to make a person of limited intelligence knowledgeable. The end result is a person programmed to think and identify a certain way ;ile sheep that helps people controlling the resources keep things in check. Sheep kie thraw bhaw bhaw kar ka taliban fan club ka president ban jaoe maybe gul khan would give you more attention this way,”
I admit I am not even half as intelligent as you…Are you “razi” now, Mr. Lota?
I am speechless and cannot give a befitting reply to your post. I will ask @dm!n to put your “wise” and “intelligent” reply on the front page as my personal acknowledgement of your contribution towards a healthy debate. Thanks a lot, Mr. lota
Btw: Are you really sheeda tulley? If you say so, then I will believe. You seem to have the same “qualities” as the @lota
“Your a product of a bad education system lazily trying to make a person of limited intelligence knowledgeable. The end result is a person programmed to think and identify a certain way ;ile sheep that helps people controlling the resources keep things in check. Sheep kie thraw bhaw bhaw kar ka taliban fan club ka president ban jaoe maybe gul khan would give you more attention this way,”
I admit I am not even half as intelligent as you…Razi?
I am speechless and cannot give a befitting reply to your post. I will ask @dm!n to put your “wise” and “intelligent” reply on the front page as my personal acknoledgement of your contribution towards a healthy debate. Thanks a lot, Mr. lota
Btw: Are you really sheeda tulley? If you say so, then I will believe. You seem to have the same “qualities” inimitable Sheikh “Lota” Rasheed
@lota
you little twit that was my point
all the people i listed worked for the betterment of their people and their nations in one way or another.. they all had beards…
great copy/paste job bye the bye
@gv
The battle is lost. Now the “soorma” named @Cogito has entered the ring. We better get lost now, because he/she is a very tough nut. I bet all my money on @Cogito. He/She will win hands down since he/she is out of pedagogic reach:-)
Aga Khan I (Hassan Ali Shah)
other than being an rich imam what are his accomplishments? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aga_Khan_I
Bacha khan
He was against the muslim league playing for the other team. What is his achivement as a role model?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Abdul_Ghaffar_Khan
Maulvi Tamizuddin Khan
principled and a man who did his job. What a rairty in pakistan. He came from a humble background and made it big and stayed princpiled. I salute that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maulvi_Tamizuddin_Khan
Sheikh Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan
bcci and babara sharif are his achivments. Are there any more i am missing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh_Zayed_bin_Sultan_Al_Nahyan
King Faisal
squandring oil money and big spending are his achivements. The day oil runs out saudis will be back in the dessert robbing camel carvans. Just wait 10-20 years
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal_of_Saudi_Arabia
King Hussein
Traiter and war criminal. I can see how that can be a role model.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Hussein
President Khatami
if you think the revoloution in iran or the government in saudi arabia, jordan, egypt or kuwait is a successful model that should be copied eleswhere than god help us.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_Khatami
lota6177
Karl Marx
Sigmund Freud
Lenin
All had beards
my bad maybe i should have kept it to islamic beards. I bet most of the people have absloutely no idea who these people are.
@shiruk
you copied your post twice. I bet i can train a money to post correctly in two hours. You i am not so sure about.
typo monkey, i need to sleep.
@lota6177
We should simply ask what services muslims irrepective of their beards (as some beardo are not fanatic and some clean-shaves are mullah e.g. IK) have rendered for the betterment of mankind in the last 500 years ?
How many Jews are there in the world and how many of them have won Nobel Prize ?
How many Muslims are there in the world and how many of them have won Nobel Prize ?
@Lotajee
I don’t doubt your “intellectual” level
Do challe ral jan te fer dekho ki honda ve….. (Cogito+Lota)
@shirkuh
Having no beef with you, I am genuinely aghast at your suggestion:
May I remind you of some gems from the ‘great contributor’ that neither you nor your friend pak nukes ever dared challenge? No, you are in no position to lecture.
Your comment just shows your partiality towards those who degraded this site to the level of a gutter.
So you find ‘daarty …daarty’ childish? But you don’t find the targeted comments dirty, vulgar, abusive, obnoxious, filthy or unislamic?
As for your accusation of ‘hate’, let me say I really don’t hate anyone on this site. But I do hold some in utter contempt. Not for their political views, but for their low character exhibited by their own language.
@Shirkuh
Look who is talking………A big round of applause.
Buk rahaa huN junuN meiN kya kya kuchch
Kuchch na samjhay Khuda karay ko’ee !
DOES TOO MUCH CLEVERNESS MAKE ONE STUPID?
Now that you have all had fun at the expense of Dr M.B. Tashkandi, MD, PhD, D.Litt, Associate Dean, Institute of Psychoceramics, Department of Psychology, Brown University, USA, Visiting Scholar, National College of Arts, Lahore, here is a recent article by Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan:
http://jang.com.pk/jang/may2009-daily/20-05-2009/col1.htm
@Gul
I don’t know why you missed my previous comments as repeated below:
“Why don’t you point your guns towards the well known ghost, who is probably the person with the most excessive use of darty, darty words. At least I know no other on this platform who can outmanoeuvre the ghost on this account.”
You see? You missed this part! If we have a “champion”, then one person is obvious for the crowning. One has to be fair and that’s why I also mentioned the below remarks:
“Btw: I sincerely wish all of us could stop the abusive language. Bear in mind ALL of US. That includes me too though I am far from the worst ”
I wrote “ALL of US”. That includes @nota, @ghost and all other guilty participants including me. It’s hard to admit, but I have also lost my cool in between, buTT, I am noT the worst
Isn’t that fair?
Title of this tread should be
“Intolerance in no political personal debate”
@Shirkuh
I did not miss any part of your post. And I respect you for admitting your guilt in this regard (and agree you were not the worst).
The reason I did not focus on the part about TK was that I believe the majority of his wrath has not been targeted at participants of this forum i.e., ad hominem attacks on members of this community (though he may have used this weoponry in DEFENCE). I don’t think he ever lifted the first stone. If I am wrong in this assertion, then my apologies.
However, you came out defending the worst offender on this site – one you know has used the worst language ever even against women members of this community where we all hang out. And unprovoked, at that! And that did not bother you.
There is a clear difference between TK and ‘great contributor’.
If you have honest appreciation of what I have said, then I am willing to stop arguing with you on this matter. But if you pursue, using TK as an excuse, then we can carry on forever.
*Sigh*
People come and people go. But this loss of the Great Contributor will burn in our hearts forever like a thousand suns.
Losing a loved one is one of the most difficult things we can go through, so much more if it is a Great Contributor. No words can express what I am feeling right now and I’m sure only time can help me accept the fact.
The Great Contributor was one of those hard working contributors that always got his way. He taught us one of the most valuable lessons in life, standing up for what you believe in. Don’t let anybody tell you otherwise.
He showed strength until the end and still had some enlightening words for us. Let us promise to ourselves that we will continue what the Great Contributor has started. Let us just remember everything that the Great Contributor shared with us. And let’s be happy that he has finally gone home and is now sitting on Google’s right side and linkbombing angels.
[Gladiator Music]
We will complete his mission. Come, who will help me honor him? Though he is no longer amongst us today, I am certain that he is looking down on us from Google and smiling.
And at this moment of profound sadness, let us not forget the other Great Contributor who [apparently] left us a year ago:
http://pkpolitics.com/2008/05/02/judges-will-be-restored-on-12th-may-announcement-by-nawaz-sharif/#comment-79085
Altaf Bhai visiting a school says: Kids do you have any question.
Boy: Sir, my name is John and I have three questions.
Q-1. Why don’t you go to Pakistan?
Q-2. Is MQM a political party?
Q-3. How MQM wins elections?
Altaf Bhai : Brilliant questions John……..
(In the meanwhile recess bell rang)
After recess… Peter stood up and said, Sir I have five questions.
Q-1. Why don’t you go to Pakistan?
Q-2. Is MQM a political party?
Q-3. How MQM wins elections?
Q-4. Why recess bell rang 20 minutes before usual time?
And the last one is
Q-5. Where is John?
@mbokhari
I am wondering about ‘ it’
@citgoerumsum
We should simply ask what services muslims irrepective of their beards (as some beardo are not fanatic and some clean-shaves are mullah e.g. IK) have rendered for the betterment of mankind in the last 500 years ?
How many Jews are there in the world and how many of them have won Nobel Prize ?
How many Muslims are there in the world and how many of them have won Nobel Prize ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Zewail
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naguib_Mahfouz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orhan_Pamuk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirin_Ebadi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Yunus
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